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Episode: Episode 618: Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 2)

Author: Morbid Network | Wondery
Duration: 01:13:18

Episode Shownotes

At first glance, there wasn’t much to the mild and unassuming Jerry Brudos; however, when investigators looked into his background, they discovered several arrests for theft, prowling, and sexual assault. And the more they learned about Brudos’ life, the more certain they became that he was the man they were

looking for.Ultimately, Jerry Brudos was convicted of the murders of Jan Whitney, Karen Sprinker, and Linda Salee and given three life sentences. His capture and incarceration were a big relief to the women of Oregon, but his cooperation with law enforcement and the FBI would prove invaluable as the latter established what would eventually become the Behavioral Analysis Unit.ReferencesAssociated Press. 1969. "Fisherman's grim discovery started search for slayer." Albany Democrat-Herald, June 30: 21.—. 1969. "Coed provided first lead in murder case." Oregonian, June 4: 11.Capital Journal. 1969. "Salem student, 19, feared kidnaped." Capital Journal, March 29: 1.Carbonell, Dan De. 2006. "36 years later, killer's death relieves victims' families." Statesman Journal (Salem Oregon), March 29: 2.Leibman, Faith H. 1989. "Serial Murderers: Four Case Histories." Federal Probation 41-45.Long, James. 1969. "Photo found in Brudos' home shows girl hanging by rope." Oregon Daily Journal, June 7: 1.Morrison, Allen. 1969. "Brudos tells of attacks, killings." Oregon Statesman , June 28: 1.—. 1969. "Indicted in death of Miss Sprinkler." Statesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), June 5: 1.Olmos, Robert. 1969. "Crews widen river search for clues in girls murders." Oregonian , May 15: 19.Oregon Journal. 1968. "2 teen-age girls missing." Oregon Daily Journal, February 6: J7.Oregonian. 1968. "Help sought in search." Oregonian, December 23: 24.—. 1969. "Office aide disappears ." Oregonian, April 26: 14.Painter, John. 1969. "Sudden shift in plea signals end of trial." Oregonian , June 28: 1.—. 1969. "Tests stall state trial of Brudos." Oregonian, June 6: 1.Roby, Larry. 1969. "Parole agency explains eligibilty of Brudos." Capital Journal (Salem, Oregon), July 2: 15.—. 1969. "Judge discloses warrant details on Brudos." Capital Journal, June 6: 1.Rule, Ann. 1983. Lust Killer. New York, NY: Random House.Statesman Journal. 1969. "Brudos home alleged site of 2 slayings." Staesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), June 18: 1.Wong, James. 1969. "Somebody probably saw Linda Salee's killer--but will the person speak up?" Oregon Daily Journal , May 15: 5.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Summary

In this episode of 'Morbid,' the hosts recount the chilling case of Jerry Brudos, the 'Shoe Fetish Slayer,' detailing his violent abduction of multiple women, particularly focusing on Karen Sprinker and Linda Salee. They explore the psychological manipulation he employed during his crimes, highlighting how he lured victims by posing as authority figures and the disturbing duality of his seemingly normal family life while committing heinous acts. The episode also delves into the eventual investigation leading to Brudos' arrest, psychiatric evaluations, and the implications of his actions on victim families, ultimately portraying the complex nature of his criminal profile.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Episode 618: Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 2)) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_03
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00:00:08 Speaker_01
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00:01:53 Speaker_03
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00:02:19 Speaker_04
Hey weirdos, I'm Alina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

00:02:36 Speaker_03
It sure is, honey. It sure is, honey. You know what else is morbid? The frickin' crick in my neck. That's pretty morbid. So morbid. Pretty mah-bid. Mah-bid. Mah-bid. It's pretty macabre. Macabre? Indeed.

00:02:50 Speaker_04
Macabre, you said. So what's blowing your skirt up? What's blowing my skirt up?

00:03:00 Speaker_03
You know, it's a big real season. Real Housewives. There's so many Real Housewives on right now. Oh, I love that. New York is on. Potomac is on. Doing pretty good. Steady Potomac season. There you go. SLC is popping the fuck off.

00:03:18 Speaker_03
Might I say that this might be my favorite season of SLC that's ever happened. Wow. I love the new Housewife Brown one. There you go. Yup. And then what other one is on right now? Why can't I think things? Oh, OC. OC just had a fucking banger of a season.

00:03:35 Speaker_03
And I think that the season finale might be this week. Wow. Really looking forward to the reunion. So Bravo heads.

00:03:42 Speaker_04
It's Real Housewives season.

00:03:44 Speaker_03
Yeah, have at it. And let's just hope that New York gets better. What are you guys doing? I really, I couldn't. I tried.

00:03:51 Speaker_04
I am an OG New York cast girly. Oh, same.

00:03:55 Speaker_03
Once it flipped over, I was like... No, like those women raised me, essentially. They literally did. Those women raised me. For better or for worse, they raised me. Yeah, it's okay.

00:04:07 Speaker_03
I still, like literally I was watching the season with Jules the other day.

00:04:10 Speaker_04
Oh, I love the old season.

00:04:12 Speaker_03
I'll watch them over and over. That's one of my favorite seasons. It's just chaos. Yeah. I really wanted to be and I was I was excited for the new like the new reboot of New York and it was

00:04:23 Speaker_03
fine like i was like okay season one it wasn't like my favorite thing ever i hated it so i couldn't even bother ben mandelker i have to pull it up really quickly because he had a tweet that explained exactly what uh ben and ronnie for life yeah if you're a bravo head we've mentioned them before but just in case you're like just joining or something if you're a bravo head go listen to watch what crap ends with ben and ronnie oh my god they're

00:04:49 Speaker_04
fucking hilarious and they cover all the Bravo shows. They're so funny.

00:04:53 Speaker_03
They're just lovely humans as well. Oh my god and if you're looking for like a campy like just I don't even know how to describe them. They're like indescribable because I love them so much and you got me into them. Lara and Carrie. Oh Sup.

00:05:08 Speaker_03
Sexy Unique Podcast. They cover OC and SLC and they're just hilarious. Me and Drew listen to those recaps cry like laughing, like through genuine like streams of tears. Oh, huge. I'm a huge Laura and Carrie fan forever and ever.

00:05:23 Speaker_03
But Ben, this sums up the difference between Real Housewives of Orange County and Real Housewives of New York, OK? So he tweeted, RHOC, you told everybody I pushed Travis down the stairs.

00:05:34 Speaker_03
Her daughter told Emily's kids that I mean, you did a background check on Ryan. The FBI is investigating. You talked about my bloody face photo. Are you going to put a hit out on me? And then Real Housewives of New York. I made a pavlova.

00:05:48 Speaker_03
It's literally all that's happened. Wow. It's only been two episodes, so I'm hoping for more, but that's my Real Housewives recap for you guys. Damn. How are you? Well, shit. What's going on in your life?

00:05:58 Speaker_04
You gave a lot. That was good. That was good information. That was good recs.

00:06:02 Speaker_03
I'm always here to give the Bravo recs.

00:06:05 Speaker_04
Yeah, I love that. And our Bravo heads listening love that.

00:06:08 Speaker_03
Yeah. Hell yeah. Hi, friends. We're well balanced here. What's going on in your neck of the woods.

00:06:12 Speaker_04
Well I just saw a really cool thing on TikTok and I was really excited to share it because I think people listening will be like holy shit because I was. Tell me everything.

00:06:20 Speaker_04
I guess Blumhouse is doing like this cool it's a it's an insidious like live horror experience.

00:06:29 Speaker_04
And I think they're doing I'm bringing the thing up right now because I I wanted to give you guys the right information because I was just I kept following TikToks about it and I was like can I I want to do this. I love an immersive experience.

00:06:38 Speaker_04
Yeah, it's like a tour. They're going in, like, over 80 cities in North America next year. Damn. Yeah, it looks cool.

00:06:45 Speaker_03
Like a haunted house kind of vibe?

00:06:47 Speaker_04
Yeah, I think it's just, like, this, like, immersive, like, you're gonna be, like, surrounded by insidious, essentially. Oh, I'm obsessed with this. It just looks too, the idea of it was just too cool, not to mention.

00:06:58 Speaker_04
Yeah, and Blumhouse, I feel like I love everything that they do. And I think there's tickets on sale now, I think, so I want to go. I'll go with you. I'm looking at it and I'm like, I want tickets to this. Coming to a city near you.

00:07:08 Speaker_04
And I'm looking right now. Is it in our city? Bitch, it's in our city. It's coming to Boston at the Colonial.

00:07:14 Speaker_03
oh shit we gotta get tickets well we are getting tickets we're going see they're absolutely going if you are not there you are square that's very true you're not weird this is just this is just me i've just found it i just wanted to tell you guys about it so

00:07:29 Speaker_03
I like that, this is just me. I just found that. I just wanted you to know. You talking about horror shit and me talking about Bravo, this is just us. This really is just us. This is the dichotomy of our podcast.

00:07:41 Speaker_04
I figured, you know what, that was blowing my skirt up at the moment, that idea of that. That's one of my favorite expressions ever. I got it from you. I've heard it before, but you used it recently.

00:07:51 Speaker_03
I used it on the car ride home the other night because Drew loves to say that things didn't blow his skirt up and it's so funny because Drew doesn't wear skirts so it just makes me lol.

00:08:02 Speaker_04
I like that. Well you know what doesn't blow my skirt up?

00:08:06 Speaker_03
Jerry Brudos. He also does not blow my skirt up but it's a fascinating

00:08:12 Speaker_03
true crime that's the thing it's a fascinating case it's a horrific case and it's only gonna get worse and part two is really gonna take it there so i just need everybody to know that i'm just really looking forward to him getting apprehended because i that's my always my favorite part of the story is when the police close in and i don't know how that happens here so pop off sister

00:08:33 Speaker_04
So when we last left you was when he had already kidnapped and murdered Linda Slauson and Jan Whitney.

00:08:44 Speaker_04
So he's already escalated to horrific acts and he's doing these, I mean, he's strangling, he's hanging them up by their neck, he's dressing them in other women's clothing that he has stolen all around his career. He's taking lots of photographs.

00:08:59 Speaker_04
He's taken one of their

00:09:01 Speaker_04
feet and kept it and he dumps them in a river afterwards and weighs them down like he's a fucking brutal dude he was going to try to make a paperweight out of one of their breasts yes and that wasn't the last time he's gonna do that so what yeah oh god

00:09:17 Speaker_04
So on the afternoon of March 27th, 1969, 19-year-old Karen Sprinker left her home and she was on her way to the Meyer and Frank department store in Salem, Oregon.

00:09:30 Speaker_04
That day she had made plans to have lunch with her mom and to do some shopping for spring clothes because she was going to be going back to school and she wanted to have like an additions to her wardrobe. Yeah.

00:09:39 Speaker_04
She actually had big plans of a medical career as a doctor, and she was brilliant. She was so smart, she had everything going for her. She graduated second highest in her high school class. Wow. She was going places.

00:09:51 Speaker_04
Jerry Brudos had also gone out that afternoon, just driving around, doing his disgusting troll thing. He was looking for women, particularly near the Meyer and Frank department store. That's when he spotted a specific woman. This woman was not Karen.

00:10:08 Speaker_04
He said later that he couldn't take his eyes off of this woman. He said, quote, I had to have her. He told detectives later. But by the time Jerry had parked his car in the, it was like a multi-tiered parking garage.

00:10:20 Speaker_04
By the time he had found a spot and parked his car, the woman had disappeared inside the store. So he missed his chance. We will not know who that woman is, but I'm like, somebody out there has no idea possibly that they were a second away.

00:10:37 Speaker_04
Like you have to wonder how often that happens. That's the thing that like something just, you know, something gets in the way.

00:10:45 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:10:45 Speaker_04
Like some kind of intervention just gets in the way.

00:10:47 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:10:48 Speaker_04
Yeah. So as Jerry was walking back to his car, he was going back to his car to leave. Like he was going to be like, he was like, fuck, I missed my chance. I'm leaving. Right.

00:10:56 Speaker_04
But as he's walking back to his car, just by chance, he notices Karen Sprinker getting out of her car. Oh no. And he later said, I didn't like her shoes, but she was a pretty girl with long dark hair.

00:11:09 Speaker_04
Now, Jerry and Karen were walking towards one another. She was headed to the inside to the, like the department store, and he was headed to the parking lot.

00:11:17 Speaker_04
And when she got to the front door of the department store, he suddenly grabbed her by the shoulder out of nowhere. just walking by a dude and he just grabs you.

00:11:26 Speaker_03
And you're she's almost in the store.

00:11:28 Speaker_04
She's literally so what it is is there's like a stairway that goes from the parking lot garage in to right to the front door.

00:11:34 Speaker_03
Okay.

00:11:35 Speaker_04
So it's like this stairway that is just like door at the bottom of the stair that goes right into the department store right here. And she was going down there and he was like it was literally like seconds away from that door.

00:11:46 Speaker_04
And it's like nobody saw anything? No, nobody saw anything. So he grabbed her by the shoulder and he shoved the barrel of a pistol into her ribs. Oh my God. And he told Karen to come with him quietly and he wouldn't shoot her.

00:11:58 Speaker_04
So she did exactly that because I can't imagine being in that position.

00:12:02 Speaker_03
Well, and you honestly, I feel like you just have to comply when somebody has a gun to your anywhere on your body.

00:12:08 Speaker_04
My personal advice to you is never let someone take you to a second location.

00:12:13 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:12:13 Speaker_04
do whatever you can obviously do whatever and that's what I mean like do whatever you can to stop that from happening which also Karen also did try to stop that from happening she fought like hell yeah so do that like don't let somebody take you to a second location that is

00:12:29 Speaker_04
far worse than something happening to you right there. So kick, scream, do whatever you got to make the most noise you can possibly make if something like this happens. Literally the most noise. Scratch at eyeballs, do whatever you got to do.

00:12:41 Speaker_04
And scream fire. Yeah, exactly. So, because it's that second location when they get you in a car, they're taking you somewhere else, that it's going to be a lot harder. When they have the upper hand in a second location.

00:12:52 Speaker_04
Yeah, and now you're somewhere where you weren't initially going, so they can't track you. Right. But what she didn't know and what she had no way of knowing was that the pistol he was using was a toy.

00:13:06 Speaker_03
Oh no.

00:13:06 Speaker_04
But it looked like a real pistol.

00:13:08 Speaker_03
Of course, and you're not going to question that in the moment. Yeah.

00:13:12 Speaker_04
So when Karen failed to show up for lunch that afternoon, her mother became alarmed very quickly, and she waited more than an hour at the restaurant.

00:13:20 Speaker_04
She searched around, she checked the parking lot, and that's where she discovered Karen's car, locked and abandoned.

00:13:27 Speaker_04
Karen's father, Lucas, reported her missing later that day, and police opened an investigation pretty immediately, because they were like, she wasn't running away, she was coming to meet me for lunch. Like, her car is here, something happened.

00:13:40 Speaker_04
The first lead came in quickly when a young woman matching Karen's description was actually seen at the Southern Pacific Railroad Station with two men. It wasn't Karen, but matched her description.

00:13:51 Speaker_04
One of these people bought tickets to San Francisco for all three of them. And the ticket clerk remembered the three young people and told detectives, it didn't look like the girl was being forced to accompany them.

00:14:01 Speaker_04
She looked like she was willing to go there. But Karen's mother was like, and they were really going with this lead, and Karen's mother was like, no, she wasn't running away. Like, this isn't, no. And please, everybody, fucking believe her.

00:14:12 Speaker_04
She said to them, something happened to that girl from the time she parked her car on the ramp before she could get into the store.

00:14:18 Speaker_03
Wow.

00:14:19 Speaker_04
And she just knew. She was like, she didn't make it into that car, into that store. Right. Now, once Karen was taken back to Jerry Brutus's basement of horrors, he sexually assaulted her.

00:14:31 Speaker_04
Then he forced her to dress in the stolen underwear and shoes while he photographed her. He took a lot of photographs of Karen. He made her change several times. This was a very long, drawn out, torturous process for her. The photos are heartbreaking.

00:14:45 Speaker_04
Yeah. Because it's clear. I mean, it's just of her face. Right. But because they've obviously cropped it. But it's clear that she is just in complete shock and doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

00:14:57 Speaker_03
Like it's a horrifying photo just because of her face. Not something I would want to see.

00:15:01 Speaker_04
No, I don't recommend going to look for it, but it's just it's awful what he did to these women because you can tell like how do you get out of that? You're in his basement. I have no idea. What do you do? And it's like, you don't know if you comply.

00:15:14 Speaker_04
If you if I comply, maybe he's going to let me leave. Like, you know, he just wants this. Yeah. There's so many things that must be running through your head.

00:15:21 Speaker_04
When he was done photographing her against her will, he looped a rope around Karen's neck and through the other end over the hoist in the basement ceiling because he had created this whole like loop and pulley system now where he could hoist someone up.

00:15:34 Speaker_04
He then hoisted her up just enough for her feet to not touch the ground, literally so her toes were scraping the ground. And then he left her to strangle to death while he went upstairs and watched cartoons and spent time with his family.

00:15:50 Speaker_04
So they were just upstairs while this was going on?

00:15:53 Speaker_03
Mm-hmm. Okay.

00:15:56 Speaker_04
So he just went upstairs, spent time with his family, his kids, wife, watched cartoons, while there is a woman strangling slowly to death in their basement.

00:16:08 Speaker_03
that I don't know how you, I don't know how the human brain can allow you to hurt somebody like that and to like also hurt your family at the same time. Like that's, that's fucking with your family too.

00:16:22 Speaker_04
Oh yeah. Like that's just. And it's just like such conflicting pieces of your brain. Right. How are they turned on at the same time?

00:16:32 Speaker_03
I don't even, I don't know about the pathways in Jerry Brutus's brain.

00:16:36 Speaker_04
Well later he returned to the basement to repeatedly violate Karen's body. Yeah.

00:16:42 Speaker_03
And she had died at that point.

00:16:43 Speaker_04
Yeah, she had died. She strangled to death. By that point he had developed a routine so he spent the next few days photographing her body just like he had done and violating it in other ways because remember he is a necrophiliac.

00:16:56 Speaker_04
And before disposing of Karen's body, he sliced off both of her breasts because he wanted to try to make the paperweights again.

00:17:05 Speaker_04
When the time came to get rid of her body, Jerry weighted her down with mechanical parts, like an engine from like an old car and stuff, and dumped her in the Long Tom River. I don't know what happened with the paperweights of it all.

00:17:21 Speaker_04
I think it's better that we don't know. Yeah, I didn't go too far into whether they worked or not, whether he was able to finally do it. For his sake, I hope no. Yeah, definitely not.

00:17:30 Speaker_04
So several months would pass before Karen's body was discovered in May. By then she had been in the water way too long for the medical examiner to get much information about her remains.

00:17:41 Speaker_04
Her cause of death was listed as death by traumatic asphyxiation. Wow.

00:17:45 Speaker_03
When you, so obviously like it becomes harder because like you got waterlogged, will your teeth disintegrate faster in water too?

00:17:53 Speaker_04
No, no. Your teeth will pretty much hang out at the same time. Now, unlike the other bodies who were discovered without clothing, Karen was actually fully clothed when she was found. So he redressed her, obviously.

00:18:08 Speaker_04
So yeah, but what was even weirder was the clothing didn't belong to her. and it clearly didn't belong to her. Is it his wife? The sizing of the undergarments, for example, were much larger than anything Karen Onder would reasonably be wearing. Okay.

00:18:24 Speaker_04
Also, when the medical examiner removed the 38D size bra, which was not her size, quote, sodden lumps of brown paper toweling dropped out. revealing that Jerry had cut off Karen's, this is when they found out that he had cut off Karen's breasts.

00:18:41 Speaker_04
And then stuffed a bra to make her chest appear larger with paper towels. And all this clothing was clothing taken from other women. And some of it was like other women he had murdered. He dressed her in. This man.

00:19:01 Speaker_04
yeah that's just yep awful now less than a month passed before jerry was back out on the prowl less than a month holy shit april 21st jerry attacked a 24 year old woman sharon wood in a parking garage as she was leaving work

00:19:18 Speaker_04
He walked right up behind her and put a pistol in her back, telling her that if she didn't scream, he wouldn't shoot her. But she said, fuck that, and she fought real hard. Hell yeah. She basically was like, I was not.

00:19:30 Speaker_04
She was having a bad day, and she was like, I was in no mood to deal with this bullshit.

00:19:34 Speaker_03
I was not to be fucked with.

00:19:35 Speaker_04
So he tried to choke her out. He put an arm around her, like, and literally tried to put her in, like, a sleeper hold, and she just bit down super hard on his hand. Like, drew blood from his thumb. Amazing. And just screamed. She just kept on screaming.

00:19:53 Speaker_04
And luckily, a car drove in as this was happening, and she was able to get away because he ran.

00:20:08 Speaker_03
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00:23:04 Speaker_04
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00:23:28 Speaker_03
Can you imagine how traumatizing that experience would be? How do you move on from that? How do you ever park your fucking car in a parking garage again? Or go in public. Or do anything, exactly. By yourself, like I would never want to be alone again.

00:23:38 Speaker_03
No, I don't think, I'm sure that happens a lot with survivors of like attacks like this. Like they probably don't want to do anything by themselves. Absolutely.

00:23:46 Speaker_04
And luckily he, so he ran away. And then on the afternoon of April 22nd, the next day. Very next day. He tried to abduct a 15 year old girl and force her into his car. He's disgusting. But she got away. Wow. Like, she was able to run away.

00:24:03 Speaker_04
He also tried to kidnap a fucking 12-year-old on her way to school. Oh my God. Literally grabbed her and was trying to throw her in his car. And she saw a neighbor working in the yard. She's on her way to school. Yeah. A 12-year-old.

00:24:17 Speaker_04
Yeah, like a 6th or 7th grader. literally saw a neighbor working in her yard and was able to break free from him and run directly into this neighbor's arms like this neighbor just grabbed her. Talk about timing.

00:24:28 Speaker_03
Yes and it's like what he was gonna do this to a 12 year old? Well it seems like he was trying to look for somebody like more vulnerable and easier.

00:24:38 Speaker_04
That was one of the things they said about him later was

00:24:42 Speaker_04
if you put up too much of a fight with him he would like like that would throw him off because he wanted the easy like thing or what he determined to be the easy thing so that's why like they all fought like most of them fought to some extent you know what I mean but it was like if you somehow were able to like get someone else involved or get because as soon as someone else became involved he was a wilting flower yeah like he was a little bitch

00:25:08 Speaker_04
Right. So it's like if he got you alone, he was more likely to overpower you no matter what. But if you could get someone else's attention or like break free somehow. He was out of there. He was out of there. And it's just like a fucking 12 year old.

00:25:21 Speaker_04
You were going to bring a 12 year old back to your fucking basement of horrors. I can't get over that.

00:25:26 Speaker_03
Meanwhile, you literally have like two children. Literally. You're a father. Yeah. Like that's disgusting and horrific no matter what. But you're you add the layer of the fact that he has his own children. He is.

00:25:38 Speaker_04
I mean, I don't think there's enough credit is put on how bad this guy is. I think it gets overshadowed a lot by like, oh, he's the shoe guy. Like he's the shoe fetish guy.

00:25:50 Speaker_03
But there's a lot more to it.

00:25:51 Speaker_04
And that's like the, oh, what a weird part of this story. And it's like, yeah, that's real weird. Do you know what else he did? Like, it's just like, you gotta look at what this fucker did. Like he's gross.

00:26:01 Speaker_03
Awful. He's a fucking necrophiliac. Oh, he's a fucking demon. And it's crazy. Like you were just saying, the shoe thing definitely overtakes this story because I know who Jerry Brutus is. I've heard the story. Yeah.

00:26:11 Speaker_03
But I actually forgot that he was a necrophiliac. Yes.

00:26:14 Speaker_04
And it's like the shoe thing is a big deal. Yeah, of course. Because it's like he, that is a massive part of his pathology and it's a massive part of what he fetishizes and what he does. And it seems like why he became who he was.

00:26:27 Speaker_03
Exactly.

00:26:27 Speaker_04
And you heard what he said with, you know, with Karen Springer. Right. She, he said, I didn't like her shoes. Right. But she was pretty. Yep. But like he, he had to comment on the shoes. Like I didn't like her shoes. Yeah.

00:26:40 Speaker_04
So it was a massive part of his pathology. So I'm not knocking the fact, but like, that's a big part of this and it shouldn't be a big part of it, but like, I feel like it doesn't get known how bad he was. He was disgusting. Yeah.

00:26:54 Speaker_04
So, after trying to abduct a 12-year-old and failing, just one day later... He's, like, desperate.

00:27:01 Speaker_04
...on April 23rd, Jerry drove over to Portland where he spotted 22-year-old Linda Sally loading bags into her car in the parking lot at the Lloyd Center. Armed with that same toy pistol and now a fake police badge. Oh.

00:27:17 Speaker_04
He approached Linda and he flashed the badge and he told her that he was a store detective with the Lloyd Center and he was taking her into custody for shoplifting.

00:27:27 Speaker_03
What?

00:27:27 Speaker_04
So Linda was like, what are you talking? I didn't shoplift anything. Like, no, I like you have the wrong person. But he was very insistent and she was always one to follow the rules. Yeah. She didn't go against authority. So she went with him.

00:27:40 Speaker_04
When you're not going to like run away from what you think is a police officer. And that's, and of course not. And later after his arrest, Jerry commented on this and said, she didn't fight me at all. She just got into my car. Well, why would she?

00:27:53 Speaker_04
Because you were pretending to be a detective. Exactly. Like making it seem like, like it was so weird. She didn't do anything. You're making it seem like you're a detective. Which is the entire reason that you came up with that plan in the first place.

00:28:03 Speaker_04
Remember this is in the sixties. It's like people like we're just coming out of the fifties here. People are taught to recite even now, but it's like, especially back then you were taught to respect police officers.

00:28:13 Speaker_03
Especially as a woman, you didn't have a lot of fucking rights back then. Yeah, authority figures.

00:28:16 Speaker_04
That's the thing. So it's like, of course she did. Yeah. Oh, it's so annoying. And she apparently, according to him, remained completely silent the whole drive.

00:28:25 Speaker_04
She didn't even speak up when it was clear that they had passed the Portland city limits and crossed into Salem.

00:28:30 Speaker_03
Well, she's probably just trying to figure out how the fuck to get out of there.

00:28:32 Speaker_04
She's probably in complete shock and terrified and still being like, is he a detective? Like he flashed a badge, like what is going on? So they pulled into his home and she still didn't say anything.

00:28:42 Speaker_04
And once he led Linda into the basement workshop is what he called it, he tied her up with rope and then went back into the house to have dinner with his family while she was tied up.

00:28:52 Speaker_03
And they just like, they never heard screams or anything like that? I guess not. They never heard struggles? I'm shocked by it, to be honest. Yeah.

00:29:00 Speaker_04
Not the kids, obviously.

00:29:01 Speaker_03
No, not the kids.

00:29:02 Speaker_04
But Ralphine, you've never heard anything? Which again, like we've seen that happen.

00:29:07 Speaker_03
I mean, yeah, it happens. For sure. But this is just like, whoa. Because I feel like a lot of times, Like when somebody's like, yeah, I didn't know anything. It wasn't happening in the house. Right.

00:29:17 Speaker_03
Like when they're bringing back people that they've already killed. Yeah. But the fact that he like dragged this girl into the basement and tied her up and then was like, okay, dinner time.

00:29:25 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:29:26 Speaker_03
It's just strange.

00:29:27 Speaker_04
That's what's confusing to me is like, he's bringing live women back to his house to murder in his basement. Right. and it's like there's times where there is like you know his wife is home.

00:29:37 Speaker_03
But also like I mean maybe this is just me but like you hear a car pull in the driveway I look at my camera or before cameras I would look out the shades. Yeah. Like I don't know.

00:29:46 Speaker_04
Yeah I don't know unless he's picking specific times where Ralphine isn't home when he pulls in. So she just comes home and gets home and starts dinner. He just walks upstairs and is none the wiser, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it's possible.

00:29:59 Speaker_03
No, definitely. It's just, I'm like, damn. It's also just another thing of how bold and brazen he is. Oh, yeah.

00:30:06 Speaker_04
And how completely, like, having no, he's remorseless.

00:30:11 Speaker_03
Yeah, no shame.

00:30:12 Speaker_04
Like, he walks upstairs. and has dinner with his family. Knowing what's happening down there. Knowing somebody else's child is downstairs in his basement. Like, it's, you know what I mean? Like, that's just fucked up.

00:30:23 Speaker_04
He's looking at his wife, a woman he claims to love, and has another woman downstairs in his basement.

00:30:30 Speaker_03
And a daughter.

00:30:31 Speaker_04
Yeah. So this asshole had dinner with his family, and then he just goes back downstairs to the basement, And Linda had actually freed herself from her ropes somehow, but she was just sitting there on the couch.

00:30:48 Speaker_04
Hadn't tried to run away, you know, nothing like that. She likely believed he was going to let her go eventually.

00:30:57 Speaker_04
What bothered me about this is he made it seem, and he had like a habit of doing this where he would sit there with detectives and be like, yeah, it's so weird. She just sat there. She didn't even try to get away. She didn't even try to use the phone.

00:31:07 Speaker_04
And it's like, I think what you're failing to tell us, you big piece of shit, is that you probably told her several times, if you just stay put and listen to what I say, you're going to go home to your family tonight. Right.

00:31:20 Speaker_04
And it's like, he's making it seem like these dumb women didn't do anything.

00:31:23 Speaker_03
They didn't move. Like, of course I killed her.

00:31:25 Speaker_04
And it's like, first of all, you told her you were a detective. So she probably had no fucking clue what was going on.

00:31:31 Speaker_04
And it's like, don't tell me that you didn't give her some kind of idea that if she just listened and didn't fight back, that you were gonna let her go. It pisses me off so much. Cause he did the thing was like, yeah, it's crazy. She just got in my car.

00:31:42 Speaker_04
You flashed her a badge. Right, of course she did. And said, you have to take her downtown. Like, come on. Yeah. This one is very graphic. They're all very unsettling and graphic but this one just has like an added element into it just so you know.

00:31:56 Speaker_04
So it was she just kind of was sitting there when he came downstairs probably hoping that he was just gonna be like okay let's get you home.

00:32:04 Speaker_04
It was only when Jerry pulled out a big belt like a leather strap and tried to get it around her neck that Linda lost it. Yeah. She started resisting, kicking, scratching at every part of him that she could, which again, she's yelling, she's fighting.

00:32:19 Speaker_03
In his basement.

00:32:20 Speaker_04
There's nothing over her mouth to stop her from yelling. In his home basement.

00:32:23 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:32:25 Speaker_04
She was fighting the whole time and he finally did get it around her neck and he strangled her to death, but she fought hard.

00:32:33 Speaker_04
He did what he did to all the other women that he killed, he violated Linda's body, he photographed her and then he hung her up by her neck on the usual pulley system, her body,

00:32:45 Speaker_04
And while she hung there, he placed needles into her rib cage on either side. What? And attached those to wires and an electrical current attached to a large battery. What?

00:32:56 Speaker_04
And what he was hoping to do there was he was hoping that by doing that, and like sending the electrical current through there, that he would make her body like jump or dance. Yeah. On the pulley. like, animate it in some way. What a fucking weirdo.

00:33:11 Speaker_04
Yeah. And it didn't do that. It just burnt her skin, which she was upset to find out. That's just so sad.

00:33:19 Speaker_04
It reminds me of the Hillside Stranglers with the usage of, like, electrical and experimentation like that and stuff, and how they just... And the way they are so fucking callous and cold about it later, just being like, what?

00:33:33 Speaker_04
I want to see what would happen. It's like, this is a person. Like, what are you doing? Like, what the fuck?

00:33:38 Speaker_04
So a few days later, Jerry weighted Linda's body down with another old engine that he could find and dropped her body into the Long Tom River as well, not far from where he had dumped Karen Sprinker's body, and then he just went home.

00:33:53 Speaker_04
Now, with the recent disappearances of Jan Whitney and Karen Sprinker and the attempted abductions just a few days earlier, like one after the other, Linda Sally's disappearance was taken pretty seriously, like right away.

00:34:07 Speaker_04
Like the other women, I feel like they were like, oh, maybe they ran away.

00:34:11 Speaker_03
Oh, it's a one-off.

00:34:13 Speaker_04
But now they were like, oh shit, these might be connected now. When you have three, it's like, okay. Like start looking at it.

00:34:19 Speaker_03
And not only three women who have turned up missing, but all other disappearances and other assaults. And attempts. Exactly.

00:34:26 Speaker_04
Now everyone who knew Linda described her as very stable and very reliable. Hardly the type of person that would run off without telling anyone. So finally they listened to people who knew her. Good.

00:34:38 Speaker_04
And also Linda's car was discovered abandoned in a parking lot, which definitely supported the theory that she was taken away from where she was and that she didn't run away with it.

00:34:48 Speaker_04
Now, whether he was in a rush or was just careless, Jerry failed to notice how shallow the part of the water was where he dumped Linda's remains.

00:35:00 Speaker_04
About two weeks later, on May 10th, two men fishing on the Long Tom River noticed something partially submerged in the water. When they got closer, they realized it was the partially nude body of a young woman.

00:35:12 Speaker_04
Her remains had been tied to an auto transmission. It was tied using a nylon cord and copper wiring. Which he used for all of them, and that was going to be something that tied him to it.

00:35:25 Speaker_04
Because those are very specific things, nylon cord, copper wiring. It's not like a regular rope. So, by the time the body was discovered, decomposition and the effects of, you know, being in the water had made Linda's face largely unrecognizable.

00:35:41 Speaker_04
Investigators thought it could actually have been Karen Sprinker at first.

00:35:45 Speaker_04
And ironically, it was just two days later while investigating that same area for evidence, you know, in Linda, in whoever this body was, that the Sheriff's Department divers also located Karen Sprinker's body about 50 feet from where Linda Sally had been discovered.

00:36:01 Speaker_04
Oh, wow. Yeah. So Linda's body was identified through dental records, because that's how badly she was decomposed. Karen's body was tentatively identified by her mother through a description of her personal items, which is just horrifying.

00:36:17 Speaker_03
That's heartbreaking, yeah.

00:36:19 Speaker_04
Detectives were glad to have some information to work with, but they couldn't ignore the fact that the similarities in the cases suggested that they were likely looking for one killer.

00:36:28 Speaker_04
Not only were the bodies left in roughly the same area, but they also were killed and weighted down in very similar ways.

00:36:35 Speaker_04
Also, they were mindful of the fact that Jan Whitney had also disappeared under similar circumstances, and they couldn't rule out the possibility that this was the same person and they had a serial killer.

00:36:47 Speaker_04
Now, in the days that followed, divers continued to comb that riverbed, looking for any additional evidence belonging to either the women or anything else, for that matter, but they didn't get anything else.

00:36:58 Speaker_04
Sheriff Charles Ream told reporters on May 15th, we're sure there are no more bodies under the bridge. The problem was, though, that they also didn't have a lot of leads to work with at this point.

00:37:08 Speaker_04
The lack of leads kind of sent detectives back to the drawing board a little bit. So they looked at the last time anyone had seen Linda.

00:37:17 Speaker_04
And it seemed impossible that her killer could have abducted her in like a brightly lit parking lot in the middle of the day. But honestly, he had done it at least one other time in the case of Karen Sprinker. And it is shocking.

00:37:31 Speaker_04
Like, I understand why they were like, how the fuck did he just grab her? And daylight. And, you know, they're thinking, like, he couldn't have grabbed her and she fought back in broad daylight. Someone would have seen her.

00:37:41 Speaker_04
But then they're like, but again, like it happened to Karen. Right. You never know. So you just don't know.

00:37:47 Speaker_04
But they said that back at Lloyd's, they talked to a clerk that was at the jewelry counter who had last seen Linda and they ended up being the last person who saw Linda alive besides Jerry Brudos.

00:37:59 Speaker_04
But this clerk said that she remembered Linda because it happened to be a very slow day and she took a long time making up her mind. So she just had remembered her. Yeah, she spent a lot of time with her.

00:38:09 Speaker_04
But that's all she could really tell her was just like, yeah, she was in here. Right.

00:38:13 Speaker_04
Now for months, investigators dug into every aspect of the victims' lives just trying to find anything that they could connect them together or that they could just figure out anybody connected to them that could do this.

00:38:25 Speaker_04
But they just kept coming up like dead end after dead end. And then in mid-May, they finally got a break when an Oregon State University student called police to report an incident.

00:38:36 Speaker_04
This incident was when a suspicious man had called this girl out of nowhere on May 14th, and this guy just asked her out on a date. And she was like, I didn't know who he was. He was a man who called me.

00:38:51 Speaker_04
And I guess he said, I just came back from Vietnam, and he had dialed her number at random. That's what he told her. That's believable. And he wanted to ask her out on a date. He was like, you know what? Let's go out.

00:39:04 Speaker_04
And she said, you have no idea what I look like. You have no idea what my fucking name even is. And you want to go on a date? Yeah. You good? But she said, I didn't know why, but I accepted the date. And I said I would meet him.

00:39:18 Speaker_04
She's a college student, so maybe she was just like, you know what? Maybe she's a big believer in fate. Maybe, I think that's why she was like, you know what, maybe this will, it was the 60s. Yeah, we're nearing the 70s. Very, very different time.

00:39:29 Speaker_03
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00:41:36 Speaker_04
So the two met at the Oregon State Dorm Lounge, and the girl said it was a very awkward experience, which I imagine it was.

00:41:44 Speaker_03
I hate that it's Jerry Brudos, obviously, that she met up with, but I love that she was just like, all right. That's right.

00:41:50 Speaker_04
And she went to like a public place. Yeah, she was smart about it. You know, she didn't go meet him at like some secluded area or like his house or something.

00:41:56 Speaker_04
yeah um so they made small talk briefly and then the man began telling her about his experience with new massage techniques no gracias and before she could even say anything he was up and standing behind her and massaging her shoulders no get the fuck away from me do not touch me without my consent same he told her to think of something sad while he was doing it

00:42:17 Speaker_03
Why would I think of sad things while you're relieving tension from my body, you fucking idiot?

00:42:21 Speaker_04
Well, and she was like, I can't. I don't know what to think of. Like, what the fuck? So his response was, think of the two girls killed and put in the Long Tom River.

00:42:33 Speaker_03
Oh, I'd say, you know what?

00:42:35 Speaker_04
I've got to go back to my dorm now. Get the fuck away from me. Scream. The conversation progressed and eventually the man mentioned that he believed people should be able to decide for themselves what's right and wrong. Oh, yeah, that's a good idea.

00:42:48 Speaker_04
And she was like,

00:42:49 Speaker_04
hard disagree and she said it to him she was like hard disagree like that is not how the world works no there's bad people in the world so like bad people can't decide what's right and wrong for people and he became irrationally angry at her for that did not want to hear that

00:43:05 Speaker_04
And the flare-up of anger obviously made her very uncomfortable. And scared.

00:43:10 Speaker_04
But it wasn't until he mentioned that he needed to replace the engine in his car that she really became uncomfortable because she remembered that at least one of the women that had been found in the river had been bound to an engine block when she was discovered.

00:43:23 Speaker_04
And she was like, too much.

00:43:25 Speaker_03
Too much is leading back here. Why is he telling her all of this? Oh, and it gets worse.

00:43:31 Speaker_04
Because the most alarming moment happened when after they'd been talking about the missing women for a little because he kept bringing it back. Yeah.

00:43:38 Speaker_04
Jerry casually asked, and he was referring to her agreeing to meet him when she didn't know who he was. So he was, this is why I think he does this shit to make women look stupid. Yeah. Because he

00:43:51 Speaker_04
He invited her, he called her up, pretended to be this guy, got her to come there with him, and now she's going to kind of shame her for it. Yeah. Because he said, what makes you want to be raped like the other girls? Oh my god. Whoa.

00:44:04 Speaker_04
He casually said that. Oh my God. Referring to the fact like, well, you just showed up and met a stranger. What makes you want it? He's like, they must've done. And again, he's blaming the other girls. Like they must've wanted to. Holy shit.

00:44:16 Speaker_04
And also like, first of all. When they were going to a department store.

00:44:19 Speaker_03
Well, that's the thing. Like this girl came for a date and did not want that. That does not mean that she wanted to be raped. And those two girls, you took them against their will. So what the fuck are you talking about, small guy? Small guy. Fucking ass.

00:44:33 Speaker_04
So true, like, and that's why when he's doing this whole thing, like, the story, and the story out there for Linda Sally is, like, that he just came downstairs and it was so weird. She had untied herself and she's just sitting there.

00:44:47 Speaker_04
She didn't even try to call on the phone. She didn't even try to escape. Like, that's the story that's everywhere you read and it's, there's no, like, it's almost being, like, isn't that weird that she just, like,

00:44:57 Speaker_04
was fine with being in this guy's basement and like didn't try to get away and he's like no no it's very clear that this is what he does that he is has clearly made her promises and kept her docile with the hope of getting the fuck out of there yeah and then he's gonna turn around to the detectives and go yeah isn't it fucking weird she just like untied herself and didn't even try to escape she must have wanted it

00:45:19 Speaker_03
Well, and I also was thinking- Fuck you. Fuck you. And I also was thinking, too, I feel like the fact that he took pictures of women almost led them to believe that he would let them go because then he had some kind of blackmail over them. Exactly.

00:45:31 Speaker_03
And they could just say, like, I'm not going to tell anybody. You have those pictures of me. You have those pictures. I'm going to go.

00:45:36 Speaker_04
Yeah. Like, we have an equal thing here and I'm going and we'll never have to do this again.

00:45:40 Speaker_03
Yeah. And I can see why somebody photographing you like that wouldn't lead you to believe that the next step would be them killing you. Exactly. It would actually lead you to believe, like, I'm going to

00:45:50 Speaker_03
I'm in this position, I'm gonna take these pictures, and then I'm gonna get the fuck out of here.

00:45:54 Speaker_04
I'm just gonna try to get myself out of here so I can at least try to get help. Right. Like, I'll do what he says to keep him calm. Right. Because he's also a big guy, that's the other thing. Even though I just called him small guy.

00:46:03 Speaker_04
Jerry Brudos, he's a small guy, well, small guy mentality for sure. Exactly.

00:46:07 Speaker_04
Like, he has the energy of a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny,

00:46:19 Speaker_04
But he's a big guy. He's a big, freckled man.

00:46:23 Speaker_03
I actually haven't looked up a picture of him this entire time.

00:46:25 Speaker_04
He's heinous.

00:46:26 Speaker_03
I believe it. He's heinous. They usually are. Something you just said about the way that he was just sitting there on the date with her and saying, like, what he just said to her about, you know, well, why do you want to get raped like those girls?

00:46:39 Speaker_03
It reminds me, I just watched the new Anna Kendrick movie that she, it's like her directorial debut. I heard great things about it.

00:46:46 Speaker_03
Woman of the Hour I just watched it was so good but it reminds me of this one scene in the movie where he gets like upset with a girl that he's very much trying to kill and it just sent chills down my fucking spine.

00:46:57 Speaker_03
But 10 out of 10 recommend that movie really good. I definitely want to watch that. Siri also is interesting. Siri is also like, you should watch that. She said, I didn't hear that. What movie was that, bitch? Just tell me more.

00:47:08 Speaker_04
But that's, that's the thing. I feel like this, if you look him up, he's a big, um, Jerry Brudos is like a big beady-eyed fuck. Yeah, he's big. And I'm sure they were trying to comply because he's a scary fucking intimidating Yes. Yeah.

00:47:23 Speaker_04
In his literal home. Right. No. being a weirdo.

00:47:54 Speaker_03
It's just, it's for the shock factor because you're immediately, imagine sitting across from somebody and hearing them say that to you, immediately all you would, you would dart back.

00:48:04 Speaker_04
Of course, and it's to shame them.

00:48:06 Speaker_03
Yeah, exactly.

00:48:07 Speaker_04
It's to make her feel uncomfortable, to make her feel like she's ashamed that she has agreed to do this and he's a piece of shit. So where do we go from here?

00:48:14 Speaker_04
So after they'd returned to the dorm, because he walked her back to the dorm, the man asked if he could see her again and she was like, I'll think about it.

00:48:23 Speaker_04
But as soon as he left, because she didn't want to piss him off, so she was like, I'll think about it. As soon as he left, she called a Corvallis detective to report it, which I was like, that's my girl.

00:48:33 Speaker_04
And they said, okay, here's what we want you to do. We want you to make another date with him, but we will be waiting. for him when he comes to pick you up.

00:48:42 Speaker_03
This poor girl.

00:48:44 Speaker_04
So they were like, you don't have to go on the date. You just have to make a date with him. And she did. So she a few days later, or she made a date for a few days later. And so she was like, come pick me up.

00:48:54 Speaker_04
And when he came to pick her up, detectives were waiting to question him.

00:48:58 Speaker_03
This might be my next favorite apprehension next to fucking the Night Stalker.

00:49:04 Speaker_04
Well, it's kind of, this one's layered because they didn't have anything on him yet.

00:49:08 Speaker_03
Oh, so they're just questioning him. Still great. I still love that. Still great that he thought he was going on a date with this girl, but yes, but also he was like creeped. He was probably going to kill her.

00:49:19 Speaker_03
Well, one, he was going to kill her, and two, I'm like, did you guys put her in the fucking witness protection program? Yeah, seriously.

00:49:24 Speaker_04
Because you didn't arrest him after that. He knows where she lives. The good news is this is what gets him on the radar. So this leads to his arrest for sure. So he gave detectives his name, but he provided a fake address.

00:49:36 Speaker_04
and denied knowing anything about the murders of Linda and Karen or the disappearances and attempted abductions of other young women.

00:49:43 Speaker_04
But still, Detective Jim Stovall recalled that how Jerry, quote, attempted to play mind games with him during their interview. So this dumb fuck thinks he's smart too. I would be like, you're laughing.

00:49:55 Speaker_04
Like, I wish they, I hope they were just so fucking mean to him. I would demean this man until his future generations felt it. Like, just ruin his life.

00:50:05 Speaker_04
According to Stovall, Brudeau's quote used hypothetical examples of what the killer could have done. That struck a little too close to the truth to be a coincidence.

00:50:14 Speaker_05
Wow.

00:50:15 Speaker_04
Yeah. It's giving if I did it. I literally was just thinking that. Now despite their suspicions, investigators had no crime that they could charge him with technically. He didn't do anything. Right.

00:50:27 Speaker_04
And Jerry, you know, he was just kind of being weird and creepy, but you can't really charge anyone with being weird and creepy, so they had to let him go.

00:50:34 Speaker_04
And in the week that followed, they discovered that their instincts were probably right about Brutus, because a search of his name, they went, like, further into his background.

00:50:43 Speaker_04
It turned up previous charges for assault and kidnapping, as well as his incarceration at the state hospital in his late teens. They also discovered a 1960 arrest where Jerry was arrested for prowling around the Oregon State campus. Oh, no.

00:50:58 Speaker_04
So Brutus also lived in close proximity to where the victims had been abducted from. So as they're putting all these things together, they're being like, all right, something's off here. He's got a record. Yeah. He was acting strange with us.

00:51:11 Speaker_04
He was trying to play mind games with us, getting a little too close to the real details of shit. And now he lives close to where they're abducted, like all the pieces are falling in.

00:51:20 Speaker_04
And his car wasn't a match for the one that had been identified in the attempted abduction of some of the young women who had gotten away, but his mother's car was. And she had been known to have been staying with him at the time.

00:51:37 Speaker_04
So he was going to abduct this 12-year-old, this 15-year-old, this 23-year-old, in his mother's car, and probably kill them in her car.

00:51:45 Speaker_03
He probably got some kick out of that because obviously he hated her. That was for sure part of it. Oh, the weird psychological layers to that. Oh, yeah. Wow.

00:51:55 Speaker_04
Oh, yeah. So the information Stovall and the other detectives managed to get together was enough to get a warrant. So they really did their due diligence after this meeting. They had to let him go, but they didn't let it lie.

00:52:07 Speaker_04
They went further and got enough to get a warrant to arrest him. Amazing. Or to search his home, at least. Right, right. So on May 26, 1969, Stovall and a team of investigators arrived at Jerry Brutus's front door, which is not good for him.

00:52:23 Speaker_04
So the warrant to search his house mentioned the sexual nature of the crimes and the specific ways in which the bodies had been disposed of, including the use of the copper wire and the nylon cord being very specific, very niche, and also the car parts that they had been bound to.

00:52:39 Speaker_04
In their search of the basement investigators found copper wire and nylon cord. Imagine that. And they matched exactly to those found in the murders.

00:52:48 Speaker_04
They also found industrial mechanical cloth which matched the cloth that was discovered on Linda's body. Wow. Now the materials discovered in the basement tied Brutus to the missing and murdered women.

00:53:01 Speaker_04
But the most damning evidence was the massive stash of photographs showing nude bodies dangling from a rope. And that's a quote. And women's clothing discovered all over. Like all, they found a massive stockpile of this stuff.

00:53:18 Speaker_04
According to the press, many of the photos of women were taken from the neck down, so it was difficult to identify them or even determine whether they were alive when the picture was taken. That's horrifying.

00:53:28 Speaker_04
But at least one photo, a small image that was confiscated from Jerry's wallet, he was carrying it around with him. was a nude Karen Sprinker.

00:53:39 Speaker_03
Oh, that's awful.

00:53:40 Speaker_04
And it was like, her face was in it.

00:53:42 Speaker_04
Also, in many of the images, they found that there was a mirror that he had laid on the ground underneath the women's bodies so that he could, like, dress them, hang them up, and put a mirror underneath their bodies so he could look up their dresses.

00:54:00 Speaker_03
Oh, God. Ew.

00:54:02 Speaker_04
Yep. And in one of those specific photos with the mirror, there is an image of Jerry's own fucking face reflected back as he was taking the fucking photo. He's so simple. And it is a... You can see the photograph. It is just of his face.

00:54:21 Speaker_04
Like, they blew... It's not like the whole photograph.

00:54:23 Speaker_03
Yeah, no.

00:54:24 Speaker_04
It's just the part that's his face. Yeah. And it's haunting to look at because you are looking at the moment that this person- Is torturing someone. It's wild to look at somebody in the moment that like they have no humanity.

00:54:41 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:54:41 Speaker_04
You know what I mean? Like that it's just like they are- They're most aggrieved. A creature we can't even fathom.

00:54:47 Speaker_03
You know what I mean?

00:54:48 Speaker_04
It's weird to be able to look at someone. And in that photo, be it because of the flash or like something else,

00:54:54 Speaker_04
that whatever happened it distorted his face a little so his eyes are like blurred like there's no eyes oh that's horrifying and his eyes are like the scariest part of him for something he's very beady very evil looking eyes yeah and they're like erased off his face it's a very chilled on my spine again yeah it's very very unsettling but it was a very specific thing about him that he would put that mirror under there and take photos because he liked having all the angles that's disgusting yeah so

00:55:22 Speaker_04
The discoveries in his home were enough for an arrest warrant, obviously. I would say so. And on May 29th, Jerry Brudos was arrested for the murders of Karen Sprinker and Linda Sally.

00:55:32 Speaker_04
Since he had become a suspect two weeks earlier, technically, Jerry had been under constant surveillance. They were not letting him just walk around. That's good.

00:55:40 Speaker_04
And he was picked up after, and this is interesting, after officers pulled Ralphine over while she was driving, his wife, and found Jerry hidden under a blanket in the back of the car. Huh.

00:55:53 Speaker_04
And what they believed was that he was attempting to flee the state. Yeah, she was helping him out. That's upsetting. So that's interesting.

00:56:01 Speaker_04
A few days later, on June 2nd, two additional murder charges were added for the murders of Linda Slauson and Jan Whitney.

00:56:08 Speaker_04
as well as a charge for assault while armed with a dangerous weapon related to the attempted kidnapping of the 15-year-old victim. She had identified Brutus as the man who tried to abduct her. Good for her. What a brave girl.

00:56:23 Speaker_04
On June 4th, the grand jury indicted Jerry for the murder of Karen, to which he entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. You're gross, but not insane. Yep.

00:56:33 Speaker_04
The judge on the case, Val Sloper, accepted the plea, but ordered that Jerry had to undergo psychiatric examination before proceeding with the case. Because he was like, OK, you want to claim that you're insane? Let's see.

00:56:43 Speaker_04
Get me some experts that agree with you. Right.

00:56:46 Speaker_04
So in a statement to the press, Jerry's lawyer, Dale Drake, told reporters that he expected the trial to begin sometime within the following four to six months, because they were going to have to gather all that.

00:56:58 Speaker_04
But at the same time, District Attorney Gary Gortmaker was holding off on pursuing an indictment for the other three murders because he didn't want to be forced to reveal the details of those cases to the defense during the trial prep for the Karen Sprinker case.

00:57:13 Speaker_04
During discovery. Now, by mid-June, the evidence against Jerry Brutus had been piling up, so it seemed very unlikely that he was going to get away with murder.

00:57:23 Speaker_04
In addition to the photographs and women's clothing, investigators had discovered additional evidence indicating that at least two of the murders, those of Jan Whitney and Linda Sally, had occurred in Jerry's home.

00:57:34 Speaker_04
Like, at least those two had been murdered in his home. And the manner of the deaths were listed as, and this just gave me like, it was very chilling to me, the manners of death were listed as hands, rope, and strap.

00:57:45 Speaker_04
Oh, I don't like, hands is really upsetting.

00:57:57 Speaker_00
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00:58:45 Speaker_04
Under the circumstances, and believing he could successfully use an insanity defense, Jerry began providing Detective Stovall with details of the crimes. Because he was thinking, well, I'm going to plead insanity. Who cares?

00:58:58 Speaker_04
And he was careful to omit certain pieces of incriminating evidence, like the location of Linda Slauson's body, because they had not found Linda yet.

00:59:07 Speaker_04
He did this under the mistaken assumption that they couldn't charge him with her murder if they couldn't find her body, which we know is incorrect.

00:59:16 Speaker_04
When he wasn't meeting with his lawyers or detectives, he was spending a lot of time with any of the seven state psychiatrists assigned to the case by the state.

00:59:24 Speaker_04
In general, they observed what they described as, quote, a man who was agitated and tense, could not sit still for an interview, but rose frequently to stride around the interview room.

00:59:35 Speaker_04
And when he was cooperative, the evaluating psychiatrist found him to be affable and talkative, saying that he spoke with grandiosity and immaturity, and peppered his conversations with unnecessary details. That checks.

00:59:47 Speaker_04
Because he's a lying sack of shit. The doctors also noted that Jerry seemed to demonstrate an appropriate range of emotional responses when discussing most subjects. except when he talked about the deaths of the victims.

01:00:01 Speaker_04
And they all said during that time, he showed no emotion at all. That's really scary. Totally human, except when he was speaking about the deaths of them, where he didn't give a shit.

01:00:13 Speaker_04
In fact, in one case, he called, I believe it was Linda Sally, he referred to her as inconsequential to him as a candy wrapper.

01:00:25 Speaker_03
And the fact that he can't even, it seems like he can't even pretend to care. No.

01:00:29 Speaker_04
And he makes no attempt to. He's just like, no, I don't care. That's so dark. Yeah. And he said, he told them, I act the way I do because everybody takes advantage of me. And that's how he described why he was such a violent predator. That's not true.

01:00:46 Speaker_04
You take advantage of others. It was clear to the evaluating psychiatrist that his behavior stemmed from his very bad and very abusive relationship with his mother in particular.

01:00:57 Speaker_04
But as far as Jerry was concerned, he attacked and killed women because his wife couldn't meet his sexual needs.

01:01:04 Speaker_03
okay he said she won't dress up like the other women do and that makes me feel sorry for myself makes you feel sorry for yourself also like hey there's this thing called divorce and there's also this thing called there's many other women on this planet so like if that's a kink that you have

01:01:22 Speaker_03
talk about it figure it out before you get married to somebody and like figure that whole part of yourself out and just the fact that when someone says and then it made me feel sorry for myself gross completely negated gross whatever statement you made before that i don't give a fuck it made me feel sorry for myself shut the fuck up when it's also just another way to blame another woman of course like i'm not it's always everyone it's women's fault i'm mad at her for trying to you know drive him past state lines but i am also sorry for her for that

01:01:51 Speaker_04
For like, what the fuck? He's just always trying to blame a woman. Anybody else.

01:01:55 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:01:56 Speaker_04
And in his evaluation report to the prosecution, Dr. Guy Parvarash summarized Jerry as follows. In psychiatric examination, he was obviously anxious, agitated, and depressed. He cried frequently, saying he was sick and that he could not have help.

01:02:12 Speaker_04
Throughout the detailed discussion of his crimes, he appeared very preoccupied, emotionally detached, and quite certain that these things had to be done. Nope, they didn't.

01:02:21 Speaker_04
In general, I did not find any evidence of a psychotic process or evidence of perceptual disturbances. His cognitive processes are very well-maintained, and he was able to give details of past and recent events.

01:02:35 Speaker_04
He shows poor and faulty social judgment and certainly has no insight into his basic emotional problems. It is my clinical opinion that Mr. Brudos understands the nature of the charges against him and can assist in his own defense.

01:02:50 Speaker_04
This man has a paranoid disorder and his behavior is a product of that disorder. Despite this, I believe he can differentiate between what is morally and socially right and wrong. All the other examining psychiatrists had basically the same opinion.

01:03:05 Speaker_04
And you said there was like seven total, right? Seven of them.

01:03:07 Speaker_04
They all noted that while Jerry did appear to meet the diagnostic criteria for a psychotic disorder, he was certainly capable of knowing that his behavior and perspectives were socially unacceptable, and in certain cases, criminally unacceptable.

01:03:20 Speaker_04
Also, at least one of the psychiatrists, Dr. George Suckow, noted that on all three occasions that Mr. Brudos has requested psychiatric help in his life, he has been in difficulty with the law.

01:03:33 Speaker_04
So as he saw it, Jerry was savvy enough to use his psychiatric history to his benefit, citing his mental illness whenever he was in trouble. That's pretty savvy.

01:03:43 Speaker_04
However, he also wrote, though he does describe some rather elaborate fantasies of a sadistic nature towards women in particular, none of these is extensive enough or involved enough to qualify, in my opinion, as being delusional, since he clearly understands that they are not real.

01:03:59 Speaker_04
Now, in simple terms, Jerry Brudos may have been a violent sex offender and murderer who saw himself as being above the standards of others, but he was well aware of what he was doing.

01:04:08 Speaker_04
And when he committed the murders that he was charged for, he was fully, he knew what was going on. He knew it was wrong. He was fine with it.

01:04:17 Speaker_04
And in fact, several of the psychiatrists who evaluated him diagnosed him with an antisocial personality disorder and noted that there was no known treatment for such individuals.

01:04:28 Speaker_04
And George Suckow wrote, in the convoluted medicalese of the psychiatrist, Jerome Henry Brudos was quite sane and eminently dangerous. In the language of the man on the street, he was a monster. He would always be a monster. He certainly is.

01:04:43 Speaker_04
So he's saying this guy is a monster and he can never be cured. This is who he is and you cannot rehabilitate him. You just wonder, like, what's missing? Like, what piece is missing? I think...

01:04:58 Speaker_04
The more we see these things, the more I am convinced childhood is so vital to who you become.

01:05:08 Speaker_04
Something gets broken in a very specific way by a very specific set of treatments or situations that you are in when you are in a perfect state of development.

01:05:20 Speaker_03
I don't even know if it's just that, though, because that happens and people turn out fine.

01:05:24 Speaker_04
But that's what I mean. I think it has to be a perfect storm. I think it has to be at a certain... I think we don't know what that one spot in development is that if you fuck it up, you're fucked. I think we can't pinpoint it yet.

01:05:39 Speaker_03
Well, and I wonder if it's like you... It's so hard to articulate. I wonder if it's that, but also if not everybody has that thing that you can fuck up. You know what I mean?

01:05:52 Speaker_03
I feel like the people like this who do things like this, like Jerry Brutus did, there's got to be something in them already. I truly believe that there's got to be something innately wrong with you from the jump that

01:06:08 Speaker_03
I feel like I'm a pretty firm believer that it's nature and nurture at the same time. I agree.

01:06:13 Speaker_04
I think, I mean, when you look at

01:06:17 Speaker_04
his mother any mother who can actively hurt their child yeah and like neglect their child and show that and like abuse their child and you know tell them basically that they're not worth what the other child is there's something broken in that person oh absolutely and it's like so obviously something could absolutely be

01:06:41 Speaker_04
in there, biologically and genetically, that's just broken. But you wonder where it all starts. How far back does that start?

01:06:51 Speaker_03
Yeah, not only do I wonder how far back that starts, but what is that piece? And I wish there was, like, I feel like someday we will figure it out.

01:06:59 Speaker_04
We need to, like, follow a line back and you need to, like, first determine where you see these little bits and pieces of things to determine what Is this coming through the maternal side, paternal side? Is it both? Does it matter?

01:07:14 Speaker_04
Does it skip a generation? Does it go every three generations that you see us?

01:07:19 Speaker_03
Is it every generation? And I feel like there's got to be some kind of like stimulus or like stimuli where something, like one part of the brain connects with another part that it's not supposed to given a certain response.

01:07:32 Speaker_04
There's some pathway that is disrupted or is bifurcated or created. you know like something is happening. Yes. I just want to know what it is.

01:07:44 Speaker_04
It makes it because it's like and obviously if we knew what it was we could stop these things from happening before they happen.

01:07:50 Speaker_03
Well and I just wonder like how many studies are being done on incarcerated serial killers because I think like I'd be happy to fucking fund that just to find out.

01:07:59 Speaker_04
For real like I would love to be able I just want to see And it's something to look into, and I think we should look into what studies are being currently done on this kind of stuff.

01:08:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, let's look into that a little bit and maybe follow up in the next couple episodes. I'm just interested in like, what are we looking at?

01:08:15 Speaker_03
Well, there's got to be some psychology behind this all, and there's got to be some psychology, there's physiology, there's... I feel like there's so many things happening, but I feel like... There's a lot at work for sure.

01:08:29 Speaker_04
There's got to be some common denominator that no one's been able to find. Because it's like finding a thread in a haystack, you know?

01:08:39 Speaker_03
We need to gather like three to five fucking monsters and just study the fuck out of their brains while they're still living, you know? It would be a very hard study to conduct. It would be a very hard study, that's the thing.

01:08:54 Speaker_03
It would be dangerous, I'm sure. But I'm just, there's got to be something. And I just want to know what it is. This kind of stuff is fascinating. It is.

01:09:01 Speaker_04
Because it really is. Because like we always say, they're not always from a home like this, you know?

01:09:06 Speaker_03
No. Or there's things that, I mean, there's things that I hear in certain stories that I can relate to. And I'm like, I'm not a serial killer, you know?

01:09:14 Speaker_04
Exactly. That's why I think it's just, there's got to be a perfect storm of things that once it all meets, it's like all the boxes get ticked and an explosion happens.

01:09:24 Speaker_03
Yeah. I don't know. My brain is just really rambling now. Because I'm also like, why is it more often men? Obviously there are women serial killers, but it doesn't happen as often. So is it something within chromosomes possibly? What could this be?

01:09:43 Speaker_03
There's just, I just want to know about the science. I know.

01:09:45 Speaker_04
It's just like, it really is. And he's really one of those like, because you're just like, what the fuck? You are just a straight up monster. Yeah. But then you look at his background and you're like, yeah, there's some shitty things going on in there.

01:09:56 Speaker_04
But then you go back to that whole thing of like, a lot of people have shitty upbringings.

01:10:00 Speaker_03
Yeah. I find him to be really similar to Ted Bundy. Yeah. Especially with like the necrophilia, like that kind of thing.

01:10:07 Speaker_04
But then he's got like hillside stranglers in there. Yeah, definitely. He's got some BTK in there. Yep, definitely. He's got, and that's the thing, you look at all these, you're like, what the fuck's going on?

01:10:18 Speaker_04
yeah what's going on with all you and he was before btk right yeah yeah i mean i think btk was like killing at that point but yeah not caught he was in the 70s yeah so he wasn't going yet wasn't going out yeah this was 69 he was just about to start

01:10:34 Speaker_04
So by mid-June, Jerry had entered similar pleas of not guilty by reason of insanity in the indictments for the murders of Jan Whitney and Linda Sally.

01:10:42 Speaker_04
But by the time the psychiatric evaluations started flowing in, it was clear that he was not gonna have anything to back that up. Definitely no expert witnesses, no testimony, no evidence. No diggity. So he had no choice but to change his pleas.

01:10:57 Speaker_04
On June 27th, 1969, just three days before his trial for the murder of Karen Sprinker, Jerry changed his plea to guilty on all three counts of murder. There it is.

01:11:06 Speaker_04
At the time, the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to get an indictment for the murder of Linda Slauson. Oh, that's sad. So that charge was dropped.

01:11:13 Speaker_04
That always makes me so sad when, like... You know he did it, but they just can't get, like, the official amount.

01:11:19 Speaker_00
The paperwork.

01:11:20 Speaker_04
Yeah. When Judge Sloper asked for confirmation, defense attorney Dale Drake said the defense had exhausted every legal remedy for providing Brutus with the defense.

01:11:29 Speaker_04
And he added the state's evidence tallied with statements made by Brutus to his defense team. So when Sloper addressed Brutus directly and asked why he was changing his plea, Jerry said, well, because I did it. Whoa. That was his answer. Simple as that.

01:11:46 Speaker_04
He waived his right to a delay between conviction and sentencing as well. So Judge Sloper imposed three life sentences, each running consecutively, putting Brutus in jail for the rest of his life. Good.

01:11:57 Speaker_04
On July 28th, just one month after he was sentenced, the body of Jane Whitney was discovered, tied to a piece of railroad iron submerged in the Willamette River.

01:12:07 Speaker_04
That same day, the prosecutor's office released a statement to the press saying, although he had confessed, they would not be pursuing a case against Brudos for the murder of Linda Slauson. They said, we have no substantiation.

01:12:20 Speaker_04
So they just were having trouble getting the pieces together. He confessed to it. Yeah. Unfortunately, and this is really heartbreaking, Linda Slauson's remains were never recovered.

01:12:31 Speaker_04
And Brudos refused to tell investigators where he had disposed of her body. What a douche. So the sentences handed down to Jerry brought a lot of relief, especially to women in Oregon. As well as for the families of the victims.

01:12:46 Speaker_04
But many were very concerned, though, because the sentences still allowed for parole. Parole. I was just thinking that. Yeah. Under the terms of his sentence, Jerry could be eligible for parole in as little as ten years. Wow.

01:12:58 Speaker_04
After receiving three life sentences. Contingent upon the adjustment he makes during the interim, is what it said.

01:13:06 Speaker_04
In response to the community's concerns, Oregon Parole Board Chairman Jack Wiseman released a statement saying there'll be a continual study of the case over the course of his imprisonment to evaluate his threat level before parole could even be considered, which we're like, that's basically... I think his threat level is pretty fucking high, guys.

01:13:23 Speaker_03
I don't think you need to continue studying that.

01:13:25 Speaker_04
Threat level midnight at all times. And he said, there must be sufficient learning, adjustment, emotional, social, and psychological on the part of Brudos before he would be a proper candidate for serious parole, even consideration.

01:13:40 Speaker_04
So that's nice, but still the idea of it is still scary. And those families were probably freaking the fuck out. Of course. As it happened, Jerry Brudos became a model prisoner once he started serving his sentence. He joined several programs.

01:13:53 Speaker_04
He even took on a clerical job at the Oregon State Penitentiary.

01:13:57 Speaker_04
But he did remain a target for the other prisoners, particularly those who targeted sex offenders and sexual killers, including one incident in 1978 when he was stabbed a lot by a fellow inmate. I just lived a lot. A lot, but he lived, unfortunately.

01:14:14 Speaker_04
Throughout his nearly four decades in prison, Jari was considered for parole a number of times, but each time he was denied. The ambassador's just been gut-wrenching for those families.

01:14:23 Speaker_04
Yeah, it made them go through, the families all had to go through it. over and over. Because that's a lengthy process, it's not like they just like, you know.

01:14:29 Speaker_04
The number that must have done in their nervous systems to have to be in fight or flight for that long, like every year. Days on end, yeah. And then just wondering how long until the next one.

01:14:38 Speaker_04
In June 1995, after repeated parole hearings, the board informed Jerry Brudos he was no longer eligible for parole due to his complete inability to show considerable evidence of rehabilitation.

01:14:51 Speaker_04
They said, the state board chair, Marva Fabian, told him, you will be in prison for the rest of your life and there will be no future parole hearings. Icon.

01:15:01 Speaker_04
But Jerry did try to appeal before the parole board every two years, despite them saying this, and despite never demonstrating even an ounce of remorse for his crimes. And it's like, that's all you have to do.

01:15:13 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:15:15 Speaker_04
I'm glad he was incapable. Yeah. On March 28, 2006, Jerry Brudos died in the infirmary at the Oregon State Penitentiary after a long and terrible battle with liver cancer.

01:15:26 Speaker_03
Karma.

01:15:27 Speaker_04
His death was a big relief to many of the victim's families who lived with constant anxiety that you just never know that they're going to let him out for something. Jan Whitney's sister, Cindy Elliott, told a reporter, I'm feeling relief.

01:15:40 Speaker_04
You hate to say you're glad that someone is dead, but my family believes it should have happened years ago. And to that I say, fuck yeah, it should have. And you don't have to feel bad at all. No, he took your loved one. Fuck that guy.

01:15:52 Speaker_04
And he was a blight on humanity. And continued to terrorize your poor family. I don't think she should feel bad one bit. He wouldn't tell people where, like Linda Slauson's family never had her body to bury.

01:16:04 Speaker_04
Never had her, anything of hers to say goodbye to.

01:16:06 Speaker_03
And he loved it.

01:16:08 Speaker_04
That's absolutely devastating. Yeah, he did it. It was his last little power trip he could take. And he took it to the grave. Fuck that guy. Unreal.

01:16:15 Speaker_03
What a douchebag. What a wild story. I never, I don't know if I knew all the details of that, to be honest. He's, really bad.

01:16:24 Speaker_04
Yeah. Like he's a really bad one. Yeah. Yeah. He's a piece of shit. Yeah.

01:16:29 Speaker_03
And I'm glad he's dead. And we're glad to be rid of him. Yeah. Bye. Rest in distress, Jerry. Truly. Don't rest at all. No. Be tormented for the rest of your life. Yeah. Your afterlife. Yeah. Wow. Thanks for that.

01:16:45 Speaker_03
Well, if you want a palate cleanser, go buy tickets to that Insidious event because it sounds fucking sick. Yeah, because that sounds awesome. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird.

01:16:56 Speaker_03
But not so weird as Cherry Budos because, wow, if you're listening to this show and you're doing that, yuck, yuck, yuck, get out of here. Bye. Eurus. Ew.

01:18:05 Speaker_03
If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

01:18:14 Speaker_03
Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

01:18:21 Speaker_02
Hello, ladies and gerbs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast.

01:18:28 Speaker_02
After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire.

01:18:38 Speaker_02
You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all.

01:18:50 Speaker_02
Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.

01:19:04 Speaker_02
Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.