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Episode: Episode 600: The Black Dahlia Murder Part I - The Girl from Hollywood
Author: The Last Podcast Network
Duration: 01:41:40
Episode Shownotes
This week the boys celebrate 600 episodes with one of the most infamous unsolved murder cases in U.S. History... Hop on board cuz' we're heading to 1940's Hollywood for the story of The Black Dahlia Murder - beginning with the tragic tale of Elizabeth Short. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on
Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes and get exclusive access to bonus content.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_07
Do you want to listen to Last Podcast on the Left without ads? Do you want extra content? Do you want to see what it's like behind the scenes? Patreon.com slash last podcast on the left.
00:00:12 Speaker_00
There's no place to escape to.
00:00:14 Speaker_05
This is the last podcast on the left. That's when the cannibalism started.
00:00:31 Speaker_07
All right, you guys ready?
00:00:33 Speaker_06
Big deal today.
00:00:36 Speaker_07
Big deal today. We're, you know, come on.
00:00:39 Speaker_01
We're one of the best podcasts in the world and we can't get better fucking noisemakers?
00:00:43 Speaker_07
This is unbelievable. We can make noises, boys. We can just make noises.
00:00:50 Speaker_01
Mine's sick. Happy 600! The goddamn poppers don't work either. Everything's falling apart. I feel like I'm in a dream.
00:00:57 Speaker_07
There we go. Smells like gunpowder in this room. Yes, it does. It's like my bathroom
00:01:12 Speaker_01
Did you know I packed my ass full of gunpowder just to make my poopoos more explosive? How revolutionary. Welcome to episode 600 of Last Podcast on the Left.
00:01:22 Speaker_03
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zebrowski.
00:01:28 Speaker_07
I'm in my feelings today. I'm in my feelings Henry Zebrowski.
00:01:31 Speaker_03
Why is that?
00:01:32 Speaker_07
Because this story is a story that we've danced around over the years and it's come up back and forth, but for number 600,
00:01:42 Speaker_05
the mystery begins.
00:01:56 Speaker_02
Today the story we're gonna be covering the black Dahlia murder the most vicious crime to hit Los Angeles since the babes of Inglewood in 1937 or maybe since we made this city out of nothing Built it upon nightmares that you thought were dreams.
00:02:13 Speaker_07
You know there was like full-on like a weird Inquisition around here
00:02:16 Speaker_03
Well, let's fucking jump right into this shit, because I cannot wait. I love this story so much, and it's going to be a fucking journey, ladies and gentlemen.
00:02:30 Speaker_07
This is a story that really, like, gets the hairs, which is a lot. Yeah, I'm standing on the back of my- It's the carpet of your back. Yes, it stands. I'm growing two times the size I am normal. I'm turning into a calico cat.
00:02:47 Speaker_07
But this story, I don't know what the hell it is about it this time.
00:02:51 Speaker_07
And I think it's because of all of the David Lynch I have consumed over all the years, that since we have gotten to this point, Twin Peaks Season 3, this whole storyline I did not realize is essentially Fire Walk With Me.
00:03:05 Speaker_03
Yeah, this is an extraordinarily Lynchian tale.
00:03:08 Speaker_07
And it's frightening. There's something very spooky about the mystery around Elizabeth Short. It reminds me a lot of the Elisa Lam story. It also reminds me of JonBenet Ramsey quite a bit. He's one of the most famous murderers of all time, correct?
00:03:23 Speaker_07
Sure, an American.
00:03:24 Speaker_01
How come you haven't covered it yet?
00:03:26 Speaker_03
Well, we're going to get into that in just a second. So on January 15th, 1947, the viciously mutilated corpse of a beautiful young woman named Elizabeth Short was found in a vacant lot in the Leimert Park neighborhood of Los Angeles.
00:03:41 Speaker_03
Within weeks, she would become known as the Black Dahlia, and her murder would remain one of the most infamous unsolved cases in American history. That gum you like is coming back in style.
00:03:54 Speaker_03
Now, this is a little out of character for us because we don't often cover unsolved cases. But what if I told you that Elizabeth Short's murder was, in fact, all but solved and has been for almost 75 years now?
00:04:09 Speaker_07
If you're on Reddit, you're probably like, no, I know the reason. I know exactly what it is and you don't know anything. So that's probably what they would say.
00:04:17 Speaker_03
What if I told you that for very good reason the most likely suspect was swept under the rug and has stayed there despite a mountain of evidence pointing towards his guilt. I would say like and subscribe please.
00:04:33 Speaker_03
Well over the course of this series we're definitely going to be getting deep into the who amongst a garden of who's but who really isn't the big question here.
00:04:41 Speaker_07
I mean for some people it is for me that's the whole reason we're doing it but Also at the same time, you know, it's not, if it's already solved and it's not, this is Marcus's like realm of understanding. It was her father.
00:04:56 Speaker_03
The big question is why Elizabeth Short was murdered, and more importantly, how many people were involved before, during, and after.
00:05:06 Speaker_03
To try and answer that question, we're going to spend the next three episodes taking a tour through 1940s Los Angeles. Get out of here, Missy! You're a sugar-bitter man!
00:05:18 Speaker_02
The people, the papers, the movie industry, the mob, and of course, the biggest gang of them all, the LAPDs.
00:05:26 Speaker_07
Oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Chicago gangsters versus the police, where like, in Chicago, we pay off the cops and the gangsters do the job. In Los Angeles, the police are the gangsters. Yeah, the Hat Squad.
00:05:42 Speaker_03
We're also going to cover a myriad of theories concerning who killed Elizabeth Short. All of them have a degree of plausibility, but in the end, there really is, in my own personal opinion, only one suspect worthy of serious consideration.
00:05:55 Speaker_07
Serious consideration.
00:05:57 Speaker_03
That, however, begs the question as to why this man's name isn't right up there with some of the most famous murderers in history. Why his name hasn't become a byword for overkill.
00:06:07 Speaker_03
Because if you're not familiar with the Black Dahlia murder at all, it really is one of the absolute worst America has to offer. And that's saying something. I mean, we love killing people who come out West.
00:06:21 Speaker_07
Basically, you see, do you really want it? Do you really want to be in a Colgate commercial?
00:06:27 Speaker_03
But to answer that question, it all has to do with the hypothesis I have.
00:06:31 Speaker_03
I think that people actually like the Black Dahlia murder better as a mystery that will remain unsolved for all eternity, although the reasons why people want it to remain mysterious differ from person to person.
00:06:44 Speaker_03
From one perspective, if the case remains unsolved,
00:06:47 Speaker_03
Elizabeth Short, with her almost movie star face and complicated erratic backstory, she becomes an almost romantic, even angelic figure that beat generations wandering sacrificial lamb laid out like an art installation in the middle of the city of dreams.
00:07:03 Speaker_07
I will say in the last couple days that I've been spending very closely with Elizabeth Short, I would say I would have let her destroy my ever living life.
00:07:12 Speaker_07
She would have definitely been the exact type of woman I would have met in 1940s Los Angeles and said, oh, you want to go to San Diego? Let's go!
00:07:20 Speaker_01
Like it would have been very quick for me. She was like the first suicide girl. Yeah.
00:07:25 Speaker_03
Well, to the point of her beauty, the very name the press gave to the crime that killed her, the Black Dahlia murder, makes it sound almost ethereal, like a song or a poem. But
00:07:35 Speaker_03
If you introduce a suspect into this story, the beauty fades along with the romance. It's no longer the Black Dahlia murder.
00:07:43 Speaker_03
It's now the story of the Black Dahlia killer, which places Elizabeth Short's death firmly in the grubby world of true crime with no escape. Yeah, then she's just some murdered lady. Mm-hmm.
00:07:56 Speaker_03
There is, however, an opposing perspective here that has nothing to do with romantic notions.
00:08:00 Speaker_03
Instead, the Black Dahlia murder, often considered one of the most gruesome crime scenes in history, can also be seen as a cautionary tale of a girl who, in the words of many people at the time, reaped what she sowed.
00:08:13 Speaker_07
And then they can keep cutting back to that cautionary tale anytime they like.
00:08:17 Speaker_03
Mm-hmm.
00:08:18 Speaker_07
Because that's what happens when you come to Los Angeles.
00:08:21 Speaker_03
See, Elizabeth Short, just 22 when she died, lived an unconventional life for 1947.
00:08:27 Speaker_03
She was a drifter of sorts from Massachusetts who just sorta ended up in and out of Southern California, a kid who didn't or couldn't buy into the conventions of post-World War II America.
00:08:38 Speaker_07
And this is gonna ask the audience the same question that Forrest Gump asks. Do you know what love is? Because she reminds me of Jenny. She reminds me of Jenny. Yeah, Jenny. Now, if you look upon it with hindsight, Jenny's character is complicated.
00:08:55 Speaker_07
Oh, absolutely. A nightmare. She ruined him. But at the same time, Jenny's the most beautiful name in the whole world. She did give him something to do in the end of his life. That's the thing.
00:09:08 Speaker_07
She provided tasks, which is the most important thing for a woman to do for a man.
00:09:14 Speaker_03
Well, as a consequence, Elizabeth Short became an example of what could happen if you stepped outside the boundaries that society had drawn for the average American woman in 1947.
00:09:25 Speaker_03
Put another way, people could make a stark comparison with no middle ground using Elizabeth Short's murder.
00:09:31 Speaker_03
You're either the girl that was found bisected in a vacant lot, or you're the happy housewife who lives in the home built on top of the crime scene.
00:09:40 Speaker_07
Which I have visited, and they don't like visitors. They're really not super friendly about it. They don't want to talk to you about it because apparently it got nothing to do with the crime anymore.
00:09:50 Speaker_07
And they're really angry that you keep kind of bringing it up, even though it's one of the most famous pieces of true crime on the face of the planet. You bought the ticket. Take the ride, man.
00:10:00 Speaker_07
See, they still are like, but this is my house that I purchased. It's my property. And I'm all like. I'm a true crime podcaster, bro. I have different rules. Yeah. I don't feel any guilt for them. No, I don't feel guilt. Guilt is not what I feel.
00:10:17 Speaker_07
I'm just telling you what to expect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:20 Speaker_03
In reality, though, Elizabeth Short was neither of these extremes. As reporter Jimmy Richardson put it, Elizabeth Short wasn't bad, but she wasn't necessarily good either.
00:10:30 Speaker_03
She was just lost, a person trying to find a way out, a wanderer who bounced around the country in search of happiness and purpose. In other words, Elizabeth Short was as human as they come.
00:10:42 Speaker_07
And this also was a time period where people believed that that search of happiness and purpose made you an idler, made you a useless member of society, and that you're, even though it's baked into the GD constitution, this idea of a pursuit of happiness, and the idea that then, yeah, sure, you're legally and freedom allowed, according to freedom you're allowed to do it, but you should actually be pregnant right now.
00:11:07 Speaker_07
And so I think all of society, when you look at somebody like Elizabeth Short, I view her very, very empathetically because she just didn't necessarily want to be a mom and a housewife.
00:11:18 Speaker_07
She wanted to go out and just do whatever the fuck and do whatever life was going to take you. And unfortunately, it took her. to a vacant lot in Culver City.
00:11:28 Speaker_03
Or so we assume. That's the thing. We actually don't know a lot about Elizabeth Short's actual motivations. A lot about what she really wanted out of life. We're not really sure. We can just piece together things from what people who knew her said.
00:11:41 Speaker_01
She's 22. When I was 22, my only goal was to stay alive. Yeah.
00:11:47 Speaker_07
It didn't work for her.
00:11:50 Speaker_03
But in this tale, there is also a bevy of inhumanity. That savagery lies in the method of her murder and the likely motivations behind it. A story that's filled with a thousand questions about who did what, when, where, and why.
00:12:06 Speaker_07
So we're not allowed to play the sound cue anymore because it's fucking... They've decided to make Joy monetize. Just now, before we get into this episode, I think it's really important for you to shut off all the lights in your home.
00:12:22 Speaker_07
You gotta put on that, if you don't have the Lost Highway soundtrack, you go get that shit. Oh my god, it's so good. And this is the time to sedway and to allow the mystery to take over.
00:12:39 Speaker_07
David Lynch, this story is central to David Lynch's entire artistic oeuvre.
00:12:45 Speaker_03
Oh no, this entire episode is scored by Angelo Badalamente. At certain points in your mind, just think,
00:12:53 Speaker_07
It's so... I don't know what it is. This time, this story fucking creeped me out.
00:13:00 Speaker_03
But to help answer all of our questions, we used three sources.
00:13:04 Speaker_03
The Black Dahlia Files by Donald Wolfe, Black Dahlia Red Rose by Pew Marie Eatwell, and Black Dahlia Avenger, colon, A Genius for Murder, colon, The True Story, colon, Part 1 by Steve Hodel.
00:13:21 Speaker_07
Just also remember, oh I want you also, we've watched the movies, I've went and watched whatever documentary footage I could find, and there is so much bullshit that has been jammed into this story over the years.
00:13:34 Speaker_07
It is so hard to figure out what is real and what is not real. Because there was that big bombshell Apple podcast that came out a couple of years ago that I believe that was called... Black Dahlia? No. No!
00:13:46 Speaker_07
Man, I watched the Brian De Palma movie to prep for this and it has nothing to do with the story.
00:13:55 Speaker_07
It's another podcast called Root of Evil that tells the entire story from the perspective of the Hodel family, which is also, we don't know if that's real or not.
00:14:03 Speaker_07
And that takes it entirely that side and say, this is the only way that guy could be the killer of the Black Dahlia. We're going to see this a lot. So be patient with us, dear listener. We're going to get to your favorite theory at some point.
00:14:16 Speaker_07
We're going to talk about it. And you just need to know that your favorite theory might not be the number one. But we'll find out, won't we?
00:14:24 Speaker_03
It might not be the theory that we subscribe to, but you know what? That's OK. That's called opinion.
00:14:32 Speaker_03
So on the morning of January 15, 1947, a woman named Betty Bersinger and her three-year-old child were walking through the half-finished neighborhood of Leimert Park, a small neighborhood in Los Angeles that was still dotted with grassy vacant lots waiting for a home to be built on top.
00:14:51 Speaker_03
But as Betty and her daughter strolled down the 3800 block of South Norton Avenue, she noticed broken glass on the sidewalk and a large black cloud of flies buzzing over what seemed to be two separate objects lying just off the footpath.
00:15:08 Speaker_06
Mommy, let me play with the flies! Mommy, let me go in the kitchen! I wanna meet the devil, mommy! Mommy, I heard flies announced the coming of the devil!
00:15:16 Speaker_07
I told ya, I told ya, Scotty Jr. You can meet the devil when you commit suicide! I'm gonna eat the flies! I told ya, we have flies at home!
00:15:28 Speaker_06
These are better! These are covered in blood!
00:15:33 Speaker_07
Oh no, we can't go over there, that's evident.
00:15:38 Speaker_03
Now when Betty got closer, she thought, perhaps unable to fully process the sight before her, that someone had cut a mannequin in half and thrown it on the grass. She thought it was a mannequin because the objects were porcelain white.
00:15:52 Speaker_03
Her first concern, however, was this unsettling sight might frighten some of the kids playing in the nearby park.
00:16:01 Speaker_07
So, she decided to call the city to see if someone could come do something about this mess in the vacant lot.
00:16:19 Speaker_03
She knocked on the door of a nearby house, reported what she saw, and went about her day, shopping at the mall while one of the most enduring mysteries in true crime history unfolded in that lonely vacant lot.
00:16:31 Speaker_03
Now, around 11.07 a.m., after a second bystander who processed the crime scene a little more thoroughly called the police, saying something horrible was laying in a vacant lot in Leimert Park, the first policemen showed up on the scene.
00:16:46 Speaker_03
Their first reaction was to shout, holy hell, someone's cut this girl right in half.
00:16:54 Speaker_07
You know, I've been waiting to say that myself. You can right now. Practice, Eddie. Holy hell! Someone cut this woman in half! No, he's a girl. A woman can vote. Oh, yeah. Holy hell! Someone cut this girl in... half? Yeah, let me go. Let me try. Let me try.
00:17:13 Speaker_07
Let me try. Holy hell! Someone's cut this girl in half! Less happy. Oh, I thought I was announcing it to the neighborhood. Holy hell! Someone's cut this girl right in... let me get my ruler.
00:17:27 Speaker_03
Exactly half.
00:17:30 Speaker_03
Well, that exclamation drew dozens of people from cops to reporters to simple bystanders, all of whom got a good long look at the sort of gore that a lot of these men had hoped they'd left behind in Europe and the South Pacific just a few years prior.
00:17:45 Speaker_03
Now we'll get into more details as our story progresses, but what those people saw that morning is as follows. A smorgasbord of such horror that it's hard to decide where to start.
00:17:56 Speaker_03
But for the sake of the story, let's start with the first thing the police noticed. The bisection of the body.
00:18:03 Speaker_03
The naked corpse, belonging to a young white woman with reddish light brown hair, had been neatly cut in half about midway up her belly, what you'd call the true waist, just under her ribs.
00:18:14 Speaker_07
It was perfectly cut between the vertebrae as well. So it would not have scored any of the various organs that would have been there in the first place. So it probably was done by somebody who's done it before.
00:18:26 Speaker_07
You know, I just found out about the true waist, you know, because I like wearing my pants below my belt, below my belly and stuff. And they're like, oh, I think I have a 36. But they're like, no, no, no, no.
00:18:37 Speaker_01
You're 49.
00:18:38 Speaker_07
You're way fatter. I was like, no, this is my waist. Like, that's not your waist. No one tells fat guys this. I have four waists.
00:18:47 Speaker_07
I have my main, what I consider my youth waist, which is pinching my fat around where my belly button is, right, in order for my pants to stay up, because my belly is inherently soft, right?
00:18:58 Speaker_07
But then I have my top, top waist, which is right under my tits, which I will eventually get to, but I do, I should have, I should be killing some communists in a war somewhere first.
00:19:09 Speaker_07
Then you have the under the belly waist, which is the best one, but that's only when it's 70.
00:19:15 Speaker_07
Then I get the suspenders over the waist through my shoulders, and once the suspenders are involved, fourth waist becomes the shoulders, which is then where the pants do indeed lie, because that's where the weight of the suspenders is. That's great.
00:19:31 Speaker_01
Finally, this is how he keeps his pants up, people.
00:19:35 Speaker_03
It's a science. It takes a village, a whole team.
00:19:38 Speaker_03
The torso had been laid out on the ground about a foot above the legs, but it had been deliberately placed to the left of the corpse's bottom half, where the line on the outside of the right leg ran up to the line on the left side of her torso.
00:19:54 Speaker_03
In other words, the two sections were deliberately placed, crime scene as a work of art. The less artistically minded of eyewitnesses, however, described the placement as though two hunks of human flesh had been laid down like two sides of beef.
00:20:09 Speaker_03
As for the victim's arms, they were extended, imposed above her head like a discarded marionette, as one of the first reporters to write about the corpse put it, and her wrists, ankles, and neck were marked with deep rope burns.
00:20:23 Speaker_03
Her right breast was also missing, but just the right. as were many of her organs. The liver, however, was intact, and hung slack from the bottom of the bisected torso.
00:20:34 Speaker_03
But perhaps most gruesome of all, her face had been beaten and mutilated, her lips and cheeks carved out to give her the appearance of a wide, gaping grin.
00:20:45 Speaker_07
And I want to say thank you, Marcus, for sending me all the pictures because I was looking online. I couldn't find the proper uncensored pictures of the of the body because I want to I want to look at it.
00:20:57 Speaker_00
I had them.
00:20:57 Speaker_07
I think it's important. And I was really thankful because Marcus went to his books that he had a man and he took pictures of them and sent them to me. And then I got a really fun iPhone album picture out.
00:21:11 Speaker_07
set to the top of my, like literally where it's just like memories from LA 42. And it's just a set to like show people no reason. You know, they chose a song, some random song. It's just like, wow, that's what it fucking is.
00:21:30 Speaker_07
And then they got, it's just this, her pictures of her corpse just rolling through. So, Thanks, Apple.
00:21:37 Speaker_01
I appreciate you not sending me the pictures, by the way. I'll send them to you later.
00:21:41 Speaker_07
I'll send them to you in an album. I'm actually going to get them printed and put them in my pillowcases like you used to do in college. What we're going to do is we're going to include them in our new advertising partner, StoryWorth.
00:21:51 Speaker_07
It's a story of all different types of your home and your family, and you can put any sorts of pictures from the morgue in there that you want. You can add whatever you want to it. That's the point.
00:22:00 Speaker_01
I didn't realize her organs were missing. Some of them. Really? Did they ever find them? No. So they might have been sold. Maybe they weren't doing that all the way back then.
00:22:09 Speaker_02
No, they weren't sold. No, no, they weren't.
00:22:11 Speaker_01
No. I'm just trying to make some money here.
00:22:15 Speaker_07
Her organs were gone, and her bass drum couldn't be found either.
00:22:18 Speaker_01
Hey! Now, it was immediately obvious.
00:22:22 Speaker_04
Hell yeah, be sad.
00:22:27 Speaker_01
Yeah man, be super sad about that one. Leave those hands on your face in shame for the rest of the fucking episode.
00:22:34 Speaker_07
Just be in my little corner.
00:22:37 Speaker_03
Now it was immediately obvious that this person had been killed elsewhere, not just because of the time it would take to mutilate someone like this out in the open without someone seeing, but because there was very little blood on the grass.
00:22:50 Speaker_03
In fact, the body had been completely drained of blood, in addition to being washed or soaked in water. The grass was still damp under the body, meaning someone had placed it between midnight and dawn.
00:23:03 Speaker_03
The dew was still there, and the deliberate posing meant that the killer had done all of this for maximum effect. This was not a crime of passion. This was deliberate.
00:23:15 Speaker_07
And if you look at the scene, I think that's why it's also important to have the full scope of the crime scene pictures is it really was on display like this was not hidden behind anything.
00:23:27 Speaker_07
It wasn't dumped on a lot like sometimes people like when they do these sorts of ornate. When they do an ornate crime scene like this, it's normally where the crime happened. Look at BTK. Look at the Boston Strangler.
00:23:42 Speaker_07
Whether or not it was Alberto DiSalvo. It's normally there. This person brought it out and put it in an empty field.
00:23:51 Speaker_03
So it really looks like, unfortunately... But when you say empty field, I want to make sure you know it's like two feet from the sidewalk. Like there's a road, a sidewalk, and two feet off of that sidewalk is the body.
00:24:05 Speaker_07
But it feels like a theatrical piece, like it legitimately feels like a horrible piece of art.
00:24:11 Speaker_07
The way you see it walking down, the way it comes, like there's a little lump of a slope of a hill and then she's laying right there so it's like, it reminds me of the opening sequence of Blue Velvet. Yeah.
00:24:22 Speaker_03
Near the body was a sack used for cement containing watery bloodstains. This was almost certainly the sack used to carry the body. It appeared, however, as if it had been carried by more than one person.
00:24:34 Speaker_03
Police also found a spot of watery blood on the nearby sidewalk, and a bloody footprint from a man's shoe was near the victim's head. These, however, were the only instances of blood at the scene.
00:24:48 Speaker_03
Now the only witnesses to any part of the body disposal were a neighbor and who else but the local paperboy.
00:24:54 Speaker_06
I've seen some horrible things! Extra, extra! Read all about it!
00:25:02 Speaker_07
Never read a newspaper again! You don't want to know what happens at 4 a.m. in Los Angeles! I've seen so many horrible things! I saw my mom punch my dad! I saw my dad punch my grandma! I saw myself punch myself because, hey, I'm annoying as fuck!
00:25:19 Speaker_03
But both the paperboy and the neighbor saw a 1936 or 1937 black Ford sedan stop at the sight of the body. The neighbor said he saw it at 6.30 a.m. But the paperboy said he saw it two hours earlier at 4 a.m.
00:25:35 Speaker_03
Meaning whoever dropped the body may have returned after the initial dump for some reason. The only other hard clue at the scene, which turned out to be nothing at all, was a men's wristwatch found in the weeds near the body.
00:25:49 Speaker_03
It was considered to be a military-style watch, which, along with the victim's choice in men, would inform certain lines of investigation later on. But within an hour, Jane Doe No.
00:26:00 Speaker_03
1, as she was still known at that time, was placed in an aluminum coffin and taken via hearse to the L.A. City morgue.
00:26:07 Speaker_03
Reportedly, when the coroner was told that the body had been cut in half, he requested that he be allowed to have lunch before he began the autopsy.
00:26:15 Speaker_07
See, in L.A., even the fucking morgue guys are hilarious. Everybody's funny.
00:26:21 Speaker_06
Maybe I should have a bit of lunch first. Tune in on Rhyme, please.
00:26:48 Speaker_01
I feel like it used to be everywhere.
00:26:50 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's very, actually, I don't know how, but it kind of got scrubbed.
00:26:54 Speaker_07
I think it's because of the true graphicness of the pictures and it's hard, because they just won't show up in the Google searches, but meanwhile, like, Jodi Arias' butthole is right there.
00:27:05 Speaker_03
That might be our fault, though.
00:27:06 Speaker_07
I guess so, maybe, but Jodi Arias' butthole, I guess because it's...
00:27:10 Speaker_03
nice and it's different right i guess in that way it's different i mean there's no pictures of the of the dude's body right no no they they censor those yeah yeah yeah it's just a butthole yeah but nevertheless in the next day's edition of the los angeles examiner herald photos of the corpse were published on the front page before the victim was even identified
00:27:31 Speaker_03
While they did edit the photos, cleaning up the blood, bruises, and knife cuts to the face, they did show a fair amount of mutilation. And even though someone airbrushed a blanket over the body, it was still a hell of a front page for 1947.
00:27:45 Speaker_03
But the news in Los Angeles in 1947 was one hell of a business.
00:27:50 Speaker_07
It really was, man. These stories are great. All these fucking old guys, like, this is back when people, like, I don't know, man, they just made up rules. Man, I am honestly surprised that they did that much to cover it up. It was very brutal back then.
00:28:05 Speaker_01
Yeah. You ever see, there's an old, I think Sidney Lumet. Who's the guy who did something like it hot? I think it was Sidney. Billy Wilder. Billy Wilder. Billy Wilder did a newsreel about the Holocaust, and I watched it, and it's fucking brutal.
00:28:22 Speaker_07
Yeah. It's the worst footage I've ever seen of the Holocaust, and it just- Billy Wilder? Billy Wilder. And it just plays in movie theaters as children are watching it. It's terrifying. Have you ever seen the photographs of Weegee?
00:28:37 Speaker_03
No, Weegee's photographs, that's what I was going to bring up. Weegee was a crime scene photographer in New York City and his
00:28:44 Speaker_07
Pictures are fucking graphic extraordinarily graphic and they were printed in the newspaper like every day Yeah, the you had the worst gore you could possibly fucking imagine just printed in the newspaper And they had like weird the tabloids were all like murder scenes, too Yeah, well something back of the day more people like I think maybe I'm wrong But I feel like from the 30s to like 20s to the 40s like more people on an everyday basis had to like kill one of their own pets
00:29:12 Speaker_07
They were a little harder edge during this time period. A lot of more people have killed people in theater of war between World War I and World War II.
00:29:21 Speaker_07
And so a lot more people have seen a lot more violence and was a lot more normalized, I think, maybe, and that life was just harder.
00:29:28 Speaker_07
So we just were kind of coddled a little bit in this day and age where we don't necessarily have to go whack a bunch of kittens because they're fucking with the livestock or stuff like you had to do.
00:29:39 Speaker_01
I didn't have to do it, my dad had to do it.
00:29:40 Speaker_07
But Prue from Great British Bake Off, breaking show, they gave her shit because she had to drown a bunch of kittens. And that's largely just because they do that in the UK for fun. You can't blame that, it's society, it's cancel culture, things change.
00:29:52 Speaker_07
There's almost something to live for these days.
00:29:55 Speaker_03
Almost. See, before the cops even showed up at the crime scene that day, two reporters and a photographer had arrived on the scene first. And this was a regular occurrence with crime scenes in Los Angeles.
00:30:10 Speaker_03
And one of those reporters was journalistic legend Agnes Aggie Underwood, who plays a big part in the story of the Black Dahlia.
00:30:18 Speaker_07
Sometimes I'm so competitive I be standing up. That's what I do. I learn how to do it. I could pee out my belly button. Mostly man. But I'm woman enough to smack you in the mouth. She once smacked the editor of her paper in the face with a fish.
00:30:39 Speaker_07
Yeah, she's fun. Aggie Underwood is a fun lady.
00:30:42 Speaker_03
Yeah, she's the prototypical tough broad. Born in San Francisco in 1902, but she'd spent her youth in the foster care system.
00:30:50 Speaker_03
A relative in Los Angeles finally took her in when she was a teenager, but only so Aggie could be exploited as a possible child movie star.
00:30:58 Speaker_07
Perfect. That was my dream! No one wanted to exploit me!
00:31:04 Speaker_03
Now Aggie settled down for a bit as a housewife with her husband Harry, but decided one day to get a job at the Los Angeles Record working the switchboard just so she could buy a pair of silk stockings after her husband said they couldn't afford them.
00:31:17 Speaker_07
You mean to tell me I can't buy a pair of stockings? How am I supposed to keep these tits up for the grocery store?
00:31:25 Speaker_06
I'm getting a job!
00:31:28 Speaker_03
Before long, Aggie Underwood had worked her way from switchboard operator to reporter, and by January of 1947, Aggie Underwood was the best crime reporter on the Herald Express staff at the age of 44.
00:31:41 Speaker_03
She was short and sturdy, with a square jaw and a big grin, prompting her editor to say, quote, She should have been a man. And in fact, Aggie did do her best to fit into the boys club.
00:31:53 Speaker_03
She refused to cover gossip or pop culture and dressed, quote, shabby and slapdash like her male co-workers, wearing no makeup and the lowest heels she could get away with.
00:32:04 Speaker_07
No shoes. I don't even wipe when I go to the bathroom.
00:32:08 Speaker_03
I want you to know I'm one of the guys.
00:32:11 Speaker_07
Just so you know, I'll fuck your wife. You don't think I'm a man? Sit on this cigar. Yeah, come on. Yeah, nice. Now do a little dance for me. Alright, now I got a cigar strapped to the front of me.
00:32:23 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's Cuba.
00:32:30 Speaker_03
Well, Underwood was actually quite proud of being a true crime reporter, later saying that she was no sissy in her reaction to blood and guts.
00:32:37 Speaker_03
When a corpse was discovered, Aggie would usually be the first on the scene, pushing her way past beat cops trying to control their gag reflex so she could grab an ID off the body.
00:32:48 Speaker_07
Wrap it up, boys. I ixnayed my gag reflex in the elementary school.
00:32:54 Speaker_03
Eventually, this moxie would land her in the city editor's chair, making her one of the first women in the U.S. to have the job. During her 17-year reign, she kept a sawed-off bat on her desk to swing at overzealous Hollywood press agents.
00:33:09 Speaker_07
You know, have you ever swung a sawed-off bat?
00:33:11 Speaker_01
No.
00:33:12 Speaker_07
Oh my God, it's the best part. If you cut the handle off a bat and you just got the fat part of a bat, that fucker swings. My buddy, my buddy's dad, you know, who taught us how to fight, he always had one in his backseat of his car.
00:33:25 Speaker_07
And I remember him showing us, he was like, whoa, man, you could really take someone out with this. He was the same guy who gave me a cue ball the day I got my car. He's like, keep it in your trunk in case someone ever tries to run from you.
00:33:38 Speaker_06
Why are you running from me? What did I do?
00:33:40 Speaker_01
It implies they're running from the trunk. And the cue ball is so you can throw it at their heads. I get it. Someone decided to head with it. I luckily never had to use it. Aw, that sucks. Today was a good day.
00:33:53 Speaker_03
Well, if Aggie's newsroom was too quiet, she'd walk out of her office with a starting pistol, fire it into the air, and yell, quote, don't let this paper die on us today! Moxie!
00:34:06 Speaker_03
But back when Aggie was the best crime reporter at the Herald Express, she was the paper's best bulldog when it came to getting the story. And the Black Dahlia would be the biggest story of her life and the biggest story her paper ever covered.
00:34:20 Speaker_07
And this is why we kind of like, I like that you chose this angle to begin the story with, like kind of talking about where the story even came from, because we're people telling the story and now we get to fuck it up.
00:34:32 Speaker_01
Do you think that she wanted to solve it or is it just a gift that keeps on giving?
00:34:36 Speaker_07
No, Aggie was a fucking, she was going for it.
00:34:39 Speaker_03
Aggie wanted the story no matter where the story led. And then once the story was over, it's time for the next fucking story.
00:34:44 Speaker_07
Another girl I could cut in half every other week as far as I'm concerned, but this girl's mine. Bang! Oh, I killed a bird. Fluorescent lighting's gonna ruin this business. I like lantern light. I like the smell of gasoline in here.
00:35:02 Speaker_03
Now while Aggie Underwood and the rest of the reporters who'd been on the scene that morning tried to figure out what this story was all about, the body of Jane Doe No. 1 was lying on a slab in the L.A.
00:35:12 Speaker_03
City morgue, about to be examined by the chief autopsy surgeon for Los Angeles County, Dr. Frederick Neubauer.
00:35:19 Speaker_06
So I guess I'm not ordering dessert? I mean, I was gonna, oh, I had my salad earlier. Do you think before they cut her in half she was called Elizabeth Tall? Oh come on everybody, come on! Milton Berle's my cousin!
00:35:37 Speaker_03
Well, he was discovering even more disturbing details about the body. Although, again, we're not going to go into every single detail just yet.
00:35:46 Speaker_03
So no fucking emails about how we didn't talk about how fucking dilated her anus was or whatever your favorite gruesome tidbit might be. And it was super dilated.
00:35:54 Speaker_07
I actually do notice that. You say that on the thing. Her anus was super dilated. But we're going to get to it. Don't you worry, you anus heads. She was in butt labor for some time.
00:36:07 Speaker_03
After determining the age, 15-20 he thought, he put the cause of death as most likely coming from one of the many blows to the head she'd suffered. They were hard enough to kill, but not hard enough to break the skull.
00:36:28 Speaker_03
Next, the coroner moved on to the bisection. A very sharp, long-bladed butcher's knife had been used to sever the body in half, cutting through the intestine, kidneys, and the soft disc between her vertebrae.
00:36:41 Speaker_03
Flesh had also been cut from her left thigh to remove a tattoo of a rose.
00:36:46 Speaker_03
The tattoo detail was held back from the press at the time, but the Herald Express did allude to the wound in their coverage by saying a piece of flesh had been gouged out of the leg.
00:36:57 Speaker_03
This was most likely done after the victim was already dead, but when the coroner moved on to the face, he concluded that the victim had been given her satanic smile, as Aggie Underwood put it, while she was still alive.
00:37:12 Speaker_03
Then as a final indignation the killer had filled the victim's stomach with feces.
00:37:19 Speaker_07
Canopy said that he didn't this is disgusting it's not that he quote unquote it's he he filled her stomach with feces but probably fed her this thesis. Quite possibly.
00:37:31 Speaker_07
And they're also now kind of, there's one kind of talk that it might have been fertilizer.
00:37:34 Speaker_02
Yeah.
00:37:35 Speaker_07
Was their stomach cut open? No. Like the actual, so there was just poop in the stomach.
00:37:39 Speaker_02
Yes.
00:37:39 Speaker_07
So it had to have been fed to her.
00:37:41 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:37:41 Speaker_07
Yeah. That's how I, that gets in mind. Yeah. They do that thing where you eat reverse poop. You eat like a cultured poop and it does something for your poop. You know what I'm talking about?
00:37:55 Speaker_03
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. No, I thought you're not talking like logs.
00:37:59 Speaker_01
Oh, no, I am talking a lot. No, you know, human shit.
00:38:02 Speaker_07
I'm talking about human shit. Full on, uncut. Yeah, I just eat dog shit. That's different. That's because he likes dogs. He's a dog person. I'm a people guy.
00:38:13 Speaker_03
I'm a people pleaser. Yeah, no matter what, Ed, you're always going to be a simple man.
00:38:17 Speaker_07
I'm grossed out by human shit. Dog shit, I could care less. You see, I flip. People say, oh, a dog's mouth's cleaner than yours. Well, that dog's doing to me. Oh, yeah.
00:38:27 Speaker_03
Now once it was all said and done, and again, more details later, the coroner concluded that whoever had mutilated this corpse had some knowledge in surgery because the body was so cleanly bisected.
00:38:39 Speaker_03
This, however, ran contrary to how haphazard the facial mutilation had been, leading many to speculate for years on end that there had to be at least two people involved in this murder.
00:38:50 Speaker_07
Why were they haphazard and the other thing wasn't haphazard? It was just cut. She was tortured.
00:38:55 Speaker_03
But it was very clear. Well, that's the thing.
00:38:57 Speaker_03
What people didn't know for decades was that the coroner had ruled that the facial mutilation, an act of sadism, had been done before death, while the bisection, a cold act of disposal and display, had taken place after. Definitely.
00:39:12 Speaker_07
You could see all of the stuff where the tattoo was cut off to help hide her identity.
00:39:16 Speaker_03
Well, actually, no, it wasn't. It was cut off and shoved inside her
00:39:20 Speaker_07
It was, it was put inside of her, but I think that it was the added humiliation where it was put inside of her, but I do believe it served a purpose of it being cut off to immediately hide an identifying mark. Possibly.
00:39:33 Speaker_07
Now the mouth cuts, were they like clean or was it like brutal?
00:39:37 Speaker_03
They were like ragged.
00:39:38 Speaker_07
So she was probably alive then.
00:39:39 Speaker_03
She was definitely alive when that was happening. Well, the reason why people didn't know the fact about, you know, before and after was because the full autopsy report has never been made public. We only have excerpts.
00:39:51 Speaker_03
And the LAPD's official line is that the full report on possibly the one of the most, I'd say, top three most famous murders in Los Angeles history is forever lost.
00:40:02 Speaker_03
But there are some who say that the report was lost on purpose because there may have been information contained therein that the LAPD didn't want the public to know.
00:40:12 Speaker_07
Release the report, Gascon! You got two weeks left to work! Dude, it's not even there, man. And every single time you read people say that they have a version of it, it's all hearsay. It's all fake.
00:40:24 Speaker_03
Secondhand.
00:40:25 Speaker_07
But I do find it interesting.
00:40:27 Speaker_03
No, there's only as far as we know, there are only four people in this world who ever read the full report.
00:40:33 Speaker_03
You know, the guy who wrote it, the head of homicide, the chief homicide detective at the time, and the two homicide detectives who were assigned to the Elizabeth Short case.
00:40:41 Speaker_07
I mean, it was back in the day when you just burned something and it's gone forever. Well, no, they kept records explicitly. They just they specifically lost these ones.
00:40:51 Speaker_07
And it probably has to do with why we're planting a little seed here that the police might have had something to do with it. Blasphemy! I know, I know Eddie. I'm the first one, I can't even believe I'm saying it.
00:41:05 Speaker_07
I pray for Brian Thompson's soul every day. I pray he's saved.
00:41:12 Speaker_01
You know, I think he might have to be in our next Saint episode. Yeah, he really might have to.
00:41:18 Speaker_03
Now, the public's hunger for information about this case was partially fueled by the fact that in 1947, there were five major newspapers in Los Angeles. And that's just major newspapers. That doesn't even count the small ones.
00:41:32 Speaker_03
This is in a city of almost 2 million, half the population of Los Angeles today. And every single one of these papers were competing with each other for the latest scope concerning the murder.
00:41:43 Speaker_03
Incredibly, the sheer number of reporters on the streets every day scouring the city for any bit of information about any given case, they actually outnumbered the investigative force of the LAPD.
00:41:55 Speaker_03
And some reporters were actually far better at homicide investigations than the cops were. Now, you might say that's just because the reporters didn't have to follow the rules that the cops did.
00:42:04 Speaker_03
But let's just say that the LAPD wasn't too fond of rules in 1947 either. This was decades before the Miranda ruling. That, you know, Miranda rights? That was 1966.
00:42:15 Speaker_07
Oh, I thought the whole Miranda ruling was that it was about being okay to be subpar on a sitcom. Whoa. That's a Sex and the City roast for no reason of Miranda. I don't know why. I don't know anything about the show. I just know that she's the weak one.
00:42:35 Speaker_07
She's the one nobody likes. I think she's beautiful, but she's definitely the one no one wants to be Miranda.
00:42:41 Speaker_01
No.
00:42:41 Speaker_07
I know Peloton killed Mr. Big, bro. I do remember. I think that's a spoiler.
00:42:47 Speaker_03
Well, because there were no Miranda rights, that meant that cops routinely held people for questioning without informing them of their rights for days on end.
00:42:57 Speaker_03
But because there were so many reporters, there was a constant trade-off of information between the police and the press. But that came with a price.
00:43:05 Speaker_03
A reporter often had to weigh the cost of reporting a story that might make the LAPD look bad, because negative press for the LAPD could cut off the information spigot from the cops.
00:43:16 Speaker_07
And that spigot is what gives them the scoops that allows them to put their newspaper ahead of everybody else. So they get not only career-wise, but monetary attention and all of it at once.
00:43:28 Speaker_03
But if you have a big story about the LAPD being a bunch of bastards, that can sell a lot of newspapers as well. It can.
00:43:35 Speaker_07
As long as, you know, you're paying off the cops, you can get any story you want. Well, as long as then they all go to jail. They're still doing it. The dude fucking sold Kobe's pictures, you know?
00:43:47 Speaker_03
But such was their collaboration that some reporters were even given badges by the L.A. County Sheriff to gain restricted access to crime scenes. They could also use these badges to help themselves out when they ran afoul of the law.
00:44:00 Speaker_03
Like, say, if a rummy reporter had a few too many one night and got stopped on Sunset Boulevard, you just flash the badge and you're good to go.
00:44:08 Speaker_07
Listen, I saw you drive on the median for four miles, but now that I see that you have a badge, you go ride on ahead, officer. But not before you kiss me on the mouth.
00:44:19 Speaker_06
Do you have a license to fuck?
00:44:25 Speaker_03
The first reports from Aggie Underwood at the Herald Express described the killing as the act of a werewolf fiend. Those are the words she used. And for many days afterward, the Black Dahlia murder was referred to as a werewolf attack.
00:44:39 Speaker_03
I mean, of all of the murders to call a werewolf attack. Yeah, I mean, not literally, of course. They weren't saying there was a werewolf loose in Los Angeles, but the mutilation certainly played a number on the imaginations of the local Angelenos.
00:44:52 Speaker_03
Seems more vampire to me because there was no blood. You know what, it could be more, it could be sort of a vampire werewolf combination.
00:44:59 Speaker_07
Hanging out, they're hanging out. That's scary. Yeah, that's scary. I don't know. Because yeah, that's a Romeo and Juliet style.
00:45:09 Speaker_03
But the story also absolutely fascinated Los Angeles. The Los Angeles Examiner edition that featured the airbrushed photos of the crime scene with the headline, Fiend Tortures, Kills Girl. That sold more editions than the one announcing Pearl Harbor.
00:45:25 Speaker_03
But before long, police would identify the young woman found in the vacant lot from her fingerprints, which had been wired to the FBI using an early version of the fax machine called a sound photo.
00:45:36 Speaker_07
That's where they yelled descriptions of a photo through a big bullhorn.
00:45:41 Speaker_06
She's cut in half! Yeah! Yeah! Alright, her right index finger looks like a bunch of spirals! Her middle right finger looks like... Spirals! There's shit in her stomach! Is that helpful?! Say it again! What was in her stomach?
00:46:03 Speaker_04
There's shit! Oh, shit! Yeah!
00:46:05 Speaker_06
Some kind of shit! Doo-doo! Dookie!
00:46:10 Speaker_03
Within hours, the FBI linked the fingerprints to an arrest made on a girl who'd been busted for underage drinking four years earlier with a bunch of military officers at a restaurant in Santa Barbara.
00:46:22 Speaker_03
The LAPD was sent a mugshot of a beautiful young girl with raven black hair. A stunner, as the papers put it, who'd originally hailed from the Boston suburb of Medford, Massachusetts.
00:46:33 Speaker_02
Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way.
00:46:36 Speaker_03
Which is where Jingle Bells was written, was in Medford, Massachusetts.
00:46:41 Speaker_07
Now, she was arrested, but not the men she was drinking with. They were of age.
00:46:47 Speaker_03
Yeah, they were of age.
00:46:48 Speaker_07
But they were drinking with a minor!
00:46:50 Speaker_03
They might have also been arrested for, what do you call it, contributing to the delinquency, that's what the crime is?
00:46:54 Speaker_07
Yeah, I don't even think that was a crime at the time. I think they were like, this minor made a decision that she shouldn't have made. To the clink with ya!
00:47:01 Speaker_03
Well, her name was Elizabeth Short. Now, reporters began finding out details about Elizabeth Shore little by little as they fanned their way out from the information they could glean from her arrest in Santa Barbara.
00:47:14 Speaker_03
Back in 1943, she'd been working as a clerk at Camp Cook in Lompoc, California, and had once won the base's Cutie of the Week contest.
00:47:24 Speaker_07
Just understand that back in the day, I feel like... It's World War II. We're in the middle of... Yeah, we're in World War II here. Middle of World War II. I think that the idea of like winning Cutie of the Week Like always leads to their death.
00:47:36 Speaker_02
Why is that? Yeah, any kind of beauty queen.
00:47:39 Speaker_07
There's something about saying now that's the cutest girl that's ever. Oh no!
00:47:45 Speaker_01
The background just here.
00:47:51 Speaker_07
She was wrapped in plastic.
00:47:53 Speaker_01
And some girl who's just used to being second best is now cutie of the week waiting for her.
00:47:58 Speaker_07
Well that's the thing, the second best girl ends up as Hillary Clinton.
00:48:04 Speaker_03
Elizabeth Short's boss at Camp Cook said that she had a childlike charm and beauty, but she was shy. But as far as she'd known, Elizabeth never smoked and rarely drank.
00:48:15 Speaker_03
All she knew is that Elizabeth had disappeared in 1943 to parts unknown after a rumored sexual assault.
00:48:23 Speaker_03
Now, Elizabeth's father, Cleo Short, was also from Medford, Massachusetts, but lived just two miles from where Elizabeth's body was discovered in 1947. Reportedly, he reacted coldly to the news of his daughter's death and was mostly uncooperative.
00:48:38 Speaker_07
Yeah, I moved here from Boston. I don't care where my daughter is. You want some al pastor? Yeah, I found this dude. It's this wonderful fling. It's called al pastor. You ever had it? You ever had a taco?
00:48:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, Cleo was a piece of shit. He was a fucking awful man.
00:48:55 Speaker_03
Yeah, her father was a piece of shit. Well, he'd actually moved to Los Angeles on his own in 1945, but hadn't seen nor spoken to Elizabeth since she'd started working at Camp Cook four years prior to her death.
00:49:07 Speaker_03
He'd been an absent father in her childhood, and while they had tried to reconnect in California, he'd cut ties with her because he didn't approve of her lifestyle. Back in Boston, we'd call her a whore!
00:49:19 Speaker_07
Yeah. I ran away. Do not call me.
00:49:25 Speaker_03
Most cruelly, though, was what a reporter from the Los Angeles Examiner did to secure details about Elizabeth Short's life.
00:49:33 Speaker_03
See, while the Herald Express had Aggie Underwood, the Examiner's city editor was a man named Jimmy Richardson, a recovering alcoholic in his 50s who was said to be, quote, the last of the terrible men.
00:49:46 Speaker_07
Yeah, I'll have a Coke. Also, bring me 20 packs of cigarettes. Bring me the Spider-Man. The last of the terrible men. The last of the terrible men. And we know there's been lots of terrible men since him. He must have been really terrible.
00:50:04 Speaker_07
Have you ever seen the picture of Jimmy Richardson? No. He's awesome. He looks just like, he reminds me of J. Jonah Jameson.
00:50:11 Speaker_01
Yeah.
00:50:11 Speaker_07
He's very similar, like he's got a big cigar, he's like chomping on a cigar and it's all just been like, a dead girl looks green to me, you know what I'm saying?
00:50:20 Speaker_03
Richardson was a newsman without fear. He once waged a one-man war against gangster Bugsy Siegel in the 30s. But Jimmy Richardson was also a man without conscience, who would do anything to get a story.
00:50:36 Speaker_03
He had one of his crime reporters call up Phoebe Mae Short, Elizabeth's mother, and tell her that he was a reporter covering a beauty contest that her daughter had won, and he just needed a little more background on the bathing beauty.
00:50:49 Speaker_01
So the mom didn't know that her daughter was dead? No idea. And they got this phone call?
00:50:53 Speaker_03
Got this phone call. Got this phone call from a reporter. Hi, this is Jim Phelps from the Los Angeles Examiner. Guess what? Your daughter's won a beauty contest. A beauty contest.
00:51:03 Speaker_02
A beauty contest. And I just need to know a couple of questions.
00:51:09 Speaker_01
How many sailors did she have sex with back in the day?
00:51:12 Speaker_02
Did your daughter have sex with a lot of sailors, Matt?
00:51:16 Speaker_03
After the reporter gobbled up details about Elizabeth Short, happily relayed by her mother, he was ordered by Jimmy Richardson, listening on another line, to pull out the rug and tell Phoebe May that actually her daughter had been murdered and left next to the sidewalk in a vacant lot.
00:51:31 Speaker_03
Comment? Let's see what happens when we take the puppy away.
00:51:34 Speaker_04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:42 Speaker_07
God, she's sad, huh? I bet she's sad, huh? $20, I want that, I want that. Hold on a minute, get the quote. Oh, it's, ah, ah, ah, oh my God, my daughter, ah, ah, ah, I'm so sad, I'm so sad. How do I write crying down, Jimmy?
00:51:58 Speaker_07
Just write tear, tear, tear, blubber, blubber.
00:52:01 Speaker_03
Now, what the Examiner reporters had learned was that Elizabeth was a free spirit of sorts, the third daughter of five born to a single mother. Elizabeth was also a high school dropout, dropped out her sophomore year.
00:52:13 Speaker_03
Friends from Medford later described Elizabeth as a fashionable girl who was destined for a more glamorous world than the Boston suburb could offer. In other words, she was the type of girl who moved to California.
00:52:23 Speaker_03
But they also described her as a bit manic-depressive. Using the parlance of the times, they said she'd be gay one minute and blue the next.
00:52:31 Speaker_07
That's what happened to my father at the one time he was gay It's interesting I was reading like gotten to this deep research on Elizabeth short I find her store I find her interesting and they said there were something that she had which is called the walk and
00:52:58 Speaker_07
And she would do this walk that people said that she'd been doing since she was like 15 or whatever and they said that it would get to the point where They they would see cars get into accidents as she walked down the street they always kind of talked about her about she was just kind of
00:53:16 Speaker_07
Like, which we've said many times. She put the bass in the walk. She did, yeah. And she, there's something about this, like, you were born in Texas, you needed to get out of Texas.
00:53:24 Speaker_03
Yeah, and everyone knew that I needed to get out of Texas. Like, to the point where they were almost rude about it.
00:53:29 Speaker_07
Well, you got the walk.
00:53:30 Speaker_01
He did, and that's how they knew. Because one of my legs is shorter than the other one.
00:53:37 Speaker_07
Elizabeth Short was just like naturally had this and the other words they always use for her too is natural vamp. Yeah. They seemed if there was something about her always that men just flipped out over. She was very Good with God.
00:53:53 Speaker_07
She like was like I guess people talk about good.
00:53:55 Speaker_07
She would sort of like in the gone girl kind of way We're like, yeah, she was a guy's girl Yeah, she would hang out with the guys and fucking like she was cool in that way, but she could kind of hang out with anybody Yes, she was very she was just like that.
00:54:07 Speaker_07
She just was a shapeshifter
00:54:09 Speaker_03
Now, Elizabeth certainly wasn't gonna stay in Medford, but she also didn't have a good idea of where else to go.
00:54:15 Speaker_03
In her short 22 years, Elizabeth had lived in Miami, Chicago, Long Beach, Los Angeles, and a handful of other cities, with her most recent address being in San Diego.
00:54:25 Speaker_03
And so, after discovering where she'd most recently lived, Richardson told his crime reporter to drop everything and head to San Diego to dig up whatever he could find.
00:54:36 Speaker_03
But with what little information the press already had, they were painting a very negative picture of Elizabeth Short. Nothing's changed. Hers was the fate of yet another pretty girl drawn to the promise of fame and fortune in Hollywood.
00:54:51 Speaker_03
In essence, the press called her a morally bankrupt floozy who'd slept her way across Southern California.
00:54:58 Speaker_03
Endless reports about her supposed sexual escapades soaked the papers, and before long, the desecrated innocent became, in the words of author Pew Eatwell, a temptress prowling the rain-soaked streets of an urban film noir.
00:55:13 Speaker_02
Cool.
00:55:14 Speaker_07
Yeah. Yeah, I like her then. I think that's cool. It's super cool. Yeah, but I do get I get it at the time because she would just She did have a lot of relationships and she did
00:55:27 Speaker_03
I mean, well, that's the days that she had. I mean, we talk about, you know, like modern, you know, modern people being born earlier, like Elizabeth Short's really no different from like your average woman in 2024. Not at all.
00:55:40 Speaker_03
But for 1947, she was very unique. Like she was living an unconventional lifestyle that made people very uncomfortable.
00:55:48 Speaker_07
And she kind of had a little bit of a thing where she would like, she liked a soldier. She'd start talking to a soldier.
00:55:54 Speaker_03
Love military men.
00:55:55 Speaker_07
Love military guys. I think a lot of times, cause they were a little bit more, sometimes they, I think military guys on one hand, they're monsters. And on the other hand, sometimes they're extra polite and extra nice.
00:56:05 Speaker_07
And I think military guys fell for her very easily. Very often she would like get a meal out of them or a drink or something out of them. And then they'd go to sleep together and then she'd kind of say, no, I don't want to. And that was a part of what,
00:56:18 Speaker_07
of course at the time was like one of even the worst sins than actually fucking is the oh you led men on.
00:56:25 Speaker_02
The tease.
00:56:26 Speaker_07
The tease at the time was so much worse which is why they keep pointing toward this idea she must have done something to deserve this.
00:56:34 Speaker_01
Yeah you're either a prude, a tease, or a slut.
00:56:36 Speaker_07
You can't win no matter what. You're fucked on all three.
00:56:40 Speaker_03
Now this change from virgin to whore spoke to a social anxiety that was bothering Southern California in particular at this point in American history. Inspired by portrayals of strong women in film, girls were moving to LA to live a life of freedom.
00:56:56 Speaker_03
They wanted to live like men. They didn't want to resign themselves to the roles of domestic servants or mothers. This, however, wasn't just a 1947 issue. The influx of young women began in the early 20th century.
00:57:09 Speaker_03
And by 1920, there were more women in Los Angeles than in any other city in the country. And a lot of those women had dreams of being movie stars.
00:57:19 Speaker_07
For some reason, though, that those piles of women also seems to bring many legions of predators.
00:57:26 Speaker_03
Yes.
00:57:27 Speaker_03
Author Edgar Rice Burroughs made the moral panic even worse with his 1922 novel, The Girl from Hollywood, which was about two young women who moved to Hollywood, but soon fell into drug addiction, out of wedlock pregnancy, and death for one of them.
00:57:43 Speaker_03
Elizabeth Short was in short order painted as the real life girl from Hollywood.
00:57:48 Speaker_07
Got addicted to drugs, got in a car crash, got pregnant, got un-pregnant, got re-pregnant, then got dead. And they were to believe they didn't even make their audition in Culver City!
00:58:01 Speaker_03
Now, by some accounts, Elizabeth Short was being referred to as the Black Dahlia as early as January 17th, two days after her murder. But it actually took several weeks before that little detail came to define her entire existence.
00:58:15 Speaker_03
Jimmy Richardson, the last of the terrible men, if you'll remember, said that he invented the name. I invented the name! While Aggie Underwood claims that she invented the name. I discovered the Black Dahlia!
00:58:25 Speaker_03
But in reality, the name Black Dahlia had been given to Elizabeth while she was still alive. Elizabeth had jet black hair and liked to wear it high.
00:58:34 Speaker_03
And when she lived in Long Beach, she was known to frequent a drugstore wearing a black two-piece lacy bathing suit.
00:58:41 Speaker_03
She naturally caught the attention of the local men who began calling her the Black Dahlia after, appropriately, a Raymond Chandler film The War that had been released the year before called The Blue Dahlia. She liked playing into it. Very much.
00:58:57 Speaker_03
She very much enjoyed attention from men.
00:58:59 Speaker_07
We'll get more detail about some of her personal relationships.
00:59:02 Speaker_03
And I'm not judging on that or anything.
00:59:04 Speaker_07
No, not at all. No, but she, there was a little bit of a shtick to it where yes, she was a little gothy. There are some people that say that she was way more gothy than she was.
00:59:14 Speaker_07
And at the time there was sort of a redo on what they call Victorian funeral fashion.
00:59:21 Speaker_07
there was kind of a in pop culture that was kind of coming back up like this in terms of like kind of dressing in this gothy way is in a fashion statement but she also would use like this fabricated sob story quite a bit where she would tell stories of an old fiance that died we're going to get into all these details and so partially it fit that character as well.
00:59:43 Speaker_03
But part of the reason why the name caught on in Los Angeles was that there had actually been several local murders that had been labeled with a flower. Murders that had been covered by Aggie Underwood herself.
00:59:54 Speaker_03
Which is probably the reason why she did probably cement the name. Yeah, she definitely. I think she almost certainly cemented the name. One of those was the white carnation murder.
01:00:01 Speaker_03
So named because a white carnation had been found on the top of the body of a dead waitress. Along with that, you had the red hibiscus murder and the white gardenia murder. Oh, but put flowers on.
01:00:17 Speaker_03
But all those have faded into history because no name had the poetry of the Black Dahlia murder.
01:00:27 Speaker_03
Now, under Jimmy Richardson's direction as city editor, the Los Angeles Examiner was one of the first papers to put together a more 3D portrait of Elizabeth Short.
01:00:37 Speaker_03
In San Diego, at her last known address, she'd stayed with two women named Elvera and Dorothy French.
01:00:44 Speaker_03
Elvera had found Elizabeth sleeping in the Aztec theater a little over a month before the murder, and had invited her to stay at her home out of pity. Why Elizabeth was sleeping in the Aztec, seemingly hiding out, No one knows for sure.
01:00:59 Speaker_03
That's one of those details we will get to.
01:01:00 Speaker_07
Also, the Aztec Theater is not looking very good recently.
01:01:03 Speaker_03
In San Diego or here in Los Angeles?
01:01:05 Speaker_07
The one in Los Angeles. No, that's the Mayan. Oh, no, there's also the Aztec, which is a big movie theater.
01:01:10 Speaker_03
Oh, really?
01:01:11 Speaker_07
I didn't know about it.
01:01:11 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's the one downtown. Yeah, it's looking real rough. Really just came to a halt here. I'll go masturbate there later.
01:01:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, good. Thank you. You're not going to be alone. You won't be. In memory of Fred Willard.
01:01:24 Speaker_03
Now, Elizabeth had told Elvera and Dorothy that she'd gone to LA to be an actress, but was looking for work in San Diego in the meantime. She also claimed that she was a recent widow.
01:01:35 Speaker_03
Her husband, she said, a one major Matt Gordon, had just been killed flying over India. And she further claimed that she'd given birth to his child, but the child had also died.
01:01:45 Speaker_03
Now, it's hard to tell if any of this is actually true or just an exaggeration. Elizabeth Short was admittedly a bit of a fabulist.
01:01:54 Speaker_03
She told stories to either garner sympathy or make herself seem more interesting, because she was, after all, just a fucking kid in her early 20s.
01:02:07 Speaker_07
40 year olds who used to be 22 year olds. What are your fucking what did that shit look like? I remember some of y'all back in the day.
01:02:14 Speaker_07
I remember some some some errant nipples Well, she probably didn't have a kid because it'd be some sort of record of it
01:02:22 Speaker_03
She did not have a kid. Well, that's the thing. I mean, Major Matt Gordon did exist. He did die over India in September of 1945.
01:02:29 Speaker_03
Elizabeth Short did receive a telegram from the Major's mother informing her of his death, but the mother said that she sent telegrams to all of her son's friends as a courtesy, and there's no evidence of a marriage between Matt Gordon and Elizabeth Short, nor is there any record of her giving birth to a child.
01:02:45 Speaker_07
She, my call is she was a lot more attached to Matt Gordon than he was to her. The mother had, did not want her in her son's life.
01:02:53 Speaker_07
And I think that she roasted her by saying this after the fact saying, Oh, I sent notices to everybody, never wanted her to be in her son's life. And then I think her son was also like, not necessarily her soulmate to him.
01:03:07 Speaker_07
Like he was not, she was not his soulmate, but he was hers.
01:03:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, she just happens to be the last person he was with before he went overseas.
01:03:16 Speaker_03
Yeah, quite possibly. Now, these half truths that Elizabeth told about herself make it a hell of a lot harder to figure out what was really happening in her life during this time period.
01:03:25 Speaker_03
But she did tell Dorothy and Elvera that she had an inside track to Hollywood through some celebrity and was doing some work as a movie extra. That's also we don't know. There's no record. There's no record of her as a movie extra.
01:03:38 Speaker_03
There is some like a very short piece of video footage that is thought to be her but it's just her on the street.
01:03:46 Speaker_07
It's not a movie. We don't really know and we don't really know what's going on here. This is where it's like This is where the mystery for me comes from. This is the unknowable person.
01:03:57 Speaker_07
This is the Laura Palmer of this story where you're watching this person who everybody got a different read on her. Everybody said that Elizabeth Short was extremely charismatic, fun to be around, like this party, but then also just got
01:04:13 Speaker_07
really really really sad and she'd get this like moody thing and there was just there's just something about her I can see her yeah I don't know what it is I can see her and I get what she's doing she's a myth maker for herself like if she had made it through all this she could have been an artist she could have been a many anything you know
01:04:33 Speaker_03
But what's known for a fact is that on some nights, a knock would come at the door of Elvera and Dorothy's home while Elizabeth was staying there.
01:04:42 Speaker_03
She would refuse to answer and would become terribly frightened, but would also refuse to say anything about who might be on the other side of that door. And those for you to remember, this is up to a month before her death.
01:04:56 Speaker_03
To make things even more mysterious, about a week before Elizabeth's body was found, a man and a woman arrived at the house where Elizabeth was staying in a car driven by a second man. Three people had shown up in San Diego looking for Elizabeth.
01:05:12 Speaker_03
But when they knocked on the door, Elizabeth got panicky and refused to answer again.
01:05:17 Speaker_07
Reminds me when they call in Mel Holland Drive when they call the guy with the big hat. Yeah. She saw some shit probably. Quite possibly.
01:05:23 Speaker_03
That's one of the big theories. All Elvera and Dorothy knew was that Elizabeth suddenly wanted to leave San Diego as quickly as possible after that encounter with those three people.
01:05:34 Speaker_03
And two days later, she left with a tall, red-haired, freckled man in his 20s named Red.
01:05:40 Speaker_06
I'm gonna fix everything! I'm creative on the name choices I give myself. You know, a lot of people call me Brown because of what I do now, but a lot of people call me Red. It's better because it used to just be man.
01:05:59 Speaker_07
Yeah, some guys call me guy. And some people say, please, sir, leave my child alone.
01:06:08 Speaker_03
Jimmy Richardson's crime reporter, miles ahead of the police, got a license plate number from Red's car from a nearby motel where Red and Elizabeth had stayed the night before she returned to Los Angeles.
01:06:18 Speaker_03
The car belonged to a 25-year-old pipe clamp salesman named Robert Manley, known to his friends
01:06:26 Speaker_07
as red on account of the hair it's my head and so jimmy richardson ordered his reporters to get an interview with red manly the first prime suspect of the black dahlia murder poor poor red manly his guy's a fucking moron who signed up for the wrong the exact wrong thing it goes on to ruin his life he had nothing to do with this whole fucking and it's just
01:06:51 Speaker_07
What do you do when you meet Elizabeth Short?
01:06:53 Speaker_03
Yeah. Now, Manley was in San Francisco on a work trip when Jimmy Richardson's reporter showed up at his home in Huntington Park.
01:07:01 Speaker_03
Unfortunately for Red, the person who was home that night was his wife, who was none too pleased to be questioned about the Black Dahlia murder.
01:07:08 Speaker_07
You see her? She was smoking! His wife? His wife was Beautiful. Like I kind of can't because he's like the reason why we're doing this stupid voice for him because he looks like Opie Yeah, he's got the red hair and the freckles. Yeah, he's an asshole.
01:07:23 Speaker_07
He looks like a moron, but she's just this like his wife is hot That's red manly for you He must have a big schlong. I don't know, maybe. Maybe? He's tall. He's got that fuckin' egg-shaped head that might mean he has a big, long, weird, four-skin penis.
01:07:41 Speaker_03
You know, what's funny is that now that you say that and I think back to all the- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:45 Speaker_01
He's probably real Irish. He's probably a boxer.
01:07:48 Speaker_04
He's got the hottest tool disease.
01:07:50 Speaker_03
Well, as soon as Red returned from San Francisco, he was ambushed and arrested by cops and reporters. Immediately, he said, quote, I know why you're here! But I didn't do it. Yep. Immediately. First thing he said.
01:08:03 Speaker_03
Now, Manley wouldn't talk to the cops or the reporters who would help find him. But where Jimmy Richardson left off, Aggie Underwood stepped in.
01:08:15 Speaker_03
In the most 1940 speech you could imagine, she, according to her recollection, told him, quote, Look, fella, you're in one hell of a spot.
01:08:22 Speaker_07
You're in a jam and it's no secret. If you're innocent, as you say you are, you tell the whole story. And if you haven't anything to hide, people can't help knowing you're telling the truth.
01:08:32 Speaker_07
That way, you'll get it over with all at once and it won't be kicking around to cause you more trouble.
01:08:38 Speaker_02
Yeah.
01:08:39 Speaker_03
Taking Aggie's advice, Manly told his story to her first, then repeated it over and over again to the police.
01:08:46 Speaker_06
What else do I have to say? It was movies, and I didn't know, and I'm fucked now! She's hot! What am I supposed to do? Look at me! Look at me for a second! Don't tell my wife! Ah, fuck.
01:09:01 Speaker_03
Well, he said that he had met Elizabeth Short in San Diego the previous December, just after he and his wife had a baby. According to Manley, his marriage was going through an adjustment period.
01:09:12 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's called his wife was healing from giving birth to your child.
01:09:15 Speaker_03
So he decided to test himself with a pretty young girl to quote, I just wanted to see if I could still love my wife.
01:09:22 Speaker_06
That is literally his reason.
01:09:23 Speaker_01
That is literally what he said. He said, I wanted to see if I still love my wife.
01:09:26 Speaker_06
But it turns out, yes, I do. I certainly do!
01:09:32 Speaker_03
Now he claimed that he never slept with Elizabeth Short, but they did ride around, dance, and have dinner. They did kiss, but he said that when they did, she was, quote, kind of cold. I think it was because she was cut in half at the time.
01:09:46 Speaker_03
Now Manley left Elizabeth in San Diego after their first fling but returned the next month on January 8th when he offered to give her a ride back to LA at her request.
01:09:56 Speaker_03
That night though, before they left, they danced and had some drinks and Manley said that Short was happy until they got to the motel room.
01:10:05 Speaker_06
You want to make it make it? You want to do it upside down? You want to do it in the booty hole? I've never done it before. I've heard people do it in France.
01:10:14 Speaker_03
He said that she became sullen and silent, and when he tried making a move, she said that it was her time of the month.
01:10:20 Speaker_06
Oh yeah, you got an appointment with your oboe fixer? Luckily my name's Red Mallet. Yeah, you know how it is. I didn't think I got that nickname. It was my hair.
01:10:30 Speaker_01
I'm actually extremely allergic to period blood.
01:10:35 Speaker_03
And she refused to even discuss sex. Manly said, fair enough. But the suspicious part of the story began the next day on their way back to Los Angeles. Well, have it your way. I'll go ahead and fuck myself.
01:10:49 Speaker_07
Maybe she was just bad because it didn't drive the two hours to Los Angeles In the middle so we can blatantly try and fuck her Trying to this is her this is where the mysteries are right.
01:11:03 Speaker_07
This is where all the big mysteries are so she's hanging out with him We don't really know why she's hanging out with him. Like why she found- because she just went, you. She needed a ride! Yes, but even before that. It was before that.
01:11:15 Speaker_07
She was building him up as another- I think that Elizabeth was in a lot of trouble and was looking for, potentially, and I mean this in all generosity, for somebody else to maybe catch that trouble who was not her. Or to help her with her trouble and
01:11:34 Speaker_07
I'd be ready to fucking take her to where she needs.
01:11:36 Speaker_03
I don't think Red Manly would have in any way whatsoever been able to like take the blame for whatever it was that she had.
01:11:42 Speaker_07
Oh no, I mean two men show up to kill me, you protect me, and maybe somehow I get away. Like literally, I need cover.
01:11:50 Speaker_03
Maybe. But by the time they made their way to Laguna Beach at around 5 p.m., Elizabeth got anxious, staring intently at every car that passed, straining her neck to see who the passengers were while saying almost nothing.
01:12:04 Speaker_03
But when they finally got to Los Angeles proper at around 6.30 p.m., Elizabeth said that she needed to go to the Biltmore Hotel to meet her sister, because she was planning on returning home to Medford, Massachusetts.
01:12:17 Speaker_03
Elizabeth Short's getting the fuck out of town. or at least trying to. She says she's trying to. To him. Yes. And so Manly dropped Elizabeth off at the Biltmore and the doorman later said that Elizabeth waited in the lobby for three hours.
01:12:32 Speaker_03
Finally, she left alone at around 10 p.m. But she did make several calls. Yeah. And that was the last reported sighting of Elizabeth Short until her body was found in Limerick Park six days later.
01:12:45 Speaker_01
Well, official sighting. Official sighting. At least less credible. Credible sighting. And she wasn't killed that night because her body would have been more decomposed, right?
01:12:55 Speaker_07
Oh yeah. And then there are, quote unquote, what they call the missing week, as we'll get into.
01:13:00 Speaker_03
Yeah. Now, Manley's alibi checked out easily enough. He was playing cards with his wife and friends the night of the murder, and his wife further said that it was absurd to think her husband would kill anyone because he fainted at the sight of blood.
01:13:12 Speaker_06
Honestly, I get scared when I fart. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, even thinking, cut a breast off. You don't cut a breast off. You massage your breast until you make a child.
01:13:25 Speaker_07
Well, as far as his sensational interview with Aggie Underwood went, Red Manley was quoted as saying, I'll swear on a stack of Bibles and I'll tell my minister too that on January 9th, that was the last time I ever saw Betty Short.
01:13:39 Speaker_07
I did not kill her, but brother, I'll never cheat on my wife again.
01:13:46 Speaker_03
And he didn't, mostly because she divorced him.
01:13:48 Speaker_07
That's how you stop that. I'd say nip that in the bud. Get them involved in the fucking, one of the worst crime scenes in recorded history.
01:13:56 Speaker_03
Yeah, about a year after the investigation, she divorced him and he never fully recovered from being the first suspect in the Black Dahlia case. Suffered numerous nervous breakdowns as a result.
01:14:04 Speaker_07
Yeah, he was like in an insane asylum, right?
01:14:07 Speaker_03
He had to be put away for a little while, yeah.
01:14:09 Speaker_07
It ruined his life.
01:14:10 Speaker_03
It did.
01:14:11 Speaker_06
Already pretty fragile as it was, it seems. Didn't know I was hanging on by a thread, I was.
01:14:19 Speaker_03
But what was strange about Red Manly was what happened to Aggie Underwood just after her interview was published. Aggie, the best true crime reporter the Herald-Examiner had, was pulled off the case without explanation.
01:14:32 Speaker_03
Well, in response to getting taken off, Aggie sat in her editor's office and did a embroidery for hours until she was put back on the story. You see what I'm making?
01:14:50 Speaker_03
And she soon after uncovered an interesting link between Elizabeth Short and another murder that had occurred about two and a half years prior.
01:14:58 Speaker_03
On October 12, 1944, a woman named Georgette Bauerdorf was found murdered in the bathtub of her West Hollywood apartment, raped, beaten, and asphyxiated. A military badge was stuffed in her mouth, which led the L.A.
01:15:12 Speaker_03
Sheriff's Department to believe she was killed by a military man.
01:15:16 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:15:18 Speaker_07
Good job, fellas. The thing, though, is that... Or is it somebody that wants you to think it's a military?
01:15:25 Speaker_03
Of course it is!
01:15:26 Speaker_07
Yes!
01:15:30 Speaker_03
Furthermore, Bauerdorf was a junior hostess at a club called the Hollywood Canteen, known to be frequented by men in the military, and who else should be working the same job, at the same club, at the same time as Bauerdorf, but Elizabeth Short.
01:15:44 Speaker_03
Dude, just like all the girls in Twin Peaks worked at 2Y Jacks. Yeah.
01:15:50 Speaker_03
And believing it to be too much of a coincidence, Aggie published an article linking the two murders with the incredible headline, werewolves leave trail of women, murder victims in Los Angeles.
01:16:02 Speaker_03
Now Georgette's diary had been confiscated by the LAPD after she'd been murdered. And it was discovered upon second look that there were quite a few entries about Elizabeth Short and the time the two girls had spent working at the Hollywood canteen.
01:16:16 Speaker_03
Laura Palmer's fucking diary. Of most interest was their relationship to a then well-known actor named Arthur Lake. Arthur Lake had played Dagwood in a series of 28 movies based on the comic strip Blondie between 1938 and 1950.
01:16:34 Speaker_03
Lake was known for playing light romantic roles, but was always a bit of a mama's boy. Hardly a werewolf type.
01:16:40 Speaker_07
Yeah, he looks like a fucking Cholo, if you see his face. He's got a goofy face He's got sort of a sad sack look and the fact that he looks he does sort of looks like Dagwood He looks exactly like Dagwood.
01:16:52 Speaker_03
Yeah Lake was also good friends with newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hearst, Patty Hearst's grandfather.
01:16:58 Speaker_01
Welcome back to the show!
01:17:00 Speaker_07
We're all like, think about, these are the connections. So this is before Patty Hearst. This is all, it all runs together.
01:17:05 Speaker_03
It's 1947, yeah. And it just so happened that Aggie Underwood's newspaper was one of the many newspapers that William Randolph Hearst owned.
01:17:13 Speaker_03
So with one quick phone call from Hearst's mistress, any investigation into Arthur Lake, Georgette Bauerdorf, and Elizabeth Short was quickly nipped in the bud.
01:17:23 Speaker_03
Although there are no serious theories that say that fucking Dagwood murdered the Black Dahlia.
01:17:27 Speaker_07
Except look at I mean actors especially back in the day some of these guys were there was some cryptic shit Yeah, going on you've ever read Hollywood Babylon or Hollywood Babylon to any of the Kenneth anger stuff, right?
01:17:41 Speaker_07
Like I know a lot of it is completely exaggerated sure these these guys Did some fucked up shit if you look at you know, we talked about Errol Flynn. Yeah, there was a lot of weird shit Yeah
01:17:54 Speaker_03
But, just because Arthur Lake wasn't involved, that didn't mean there wasn't a connection between the murders of Georgette Bauerdorf and Elizabeth Short.
01:18:01 Speaker_03
Even considering that Georgette's murder was nowhere near as violent or performative as Elizabeth's.
01:18:06 Speaker_07
Yeah, where does Elizabeth's murder come from? Is that really the first time somebody ever kills somebody? Do they produce the Black Dahlia? I don't think so, but... No, it's just the way it was done.
01:18:17 Speaker_03
Yeah, I mean, you'd think it would be a huge ramp-up. But Aggie never got to find out anything about these connections because the moment she started looking into this link, she was taken off the story a second time.
01:18:33 Speaker_03
Except on this occasion, it was because she was promoted to city editor of the Herald Express.
01:18:38 Speaker_07
And that's how you always get if you have a problem and you want to get rid of them and you've got a way to get to promote them out. That's the best way to do it because it shuts them the fuck up. I mean, she was a deserving candidate.
01:18:49 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah. But everyone thought it was strange that the only reporter making real progress at their paper on the biggest news story of the decade was reassigned twice without explanation.
01:19:01 Speaker_01
So this kind of points to Mafia, probably.
01:19:04 Speaker_03
Don't know, Eddie! Don't know! But Aggie took the job, and the story, more or less, went back to Jimmy Richardson.
01:19:12 Speaker_03
Now, besides the black sedan that had been spotted at the murder scene in the wee hours before Elizabeth Short's body was found, there really weren't any concrete leads as to who was responsible for Elizabeth Short's murder.
01:19:24 Speaker_03
But on January 23rd, the phone rang at the office of the Los Angeles Examiner, and it was Jimmy Richardson who answered.
01:19:31 Speaker_07
Hello! God damn it, who is it? Why are you calling me?
01:19:37 Speaker_03
On the other end of the phone was a man with a voice that has been described again and again as soft and sly. He was asking for the city editor. Jimmy said, speaking.
01:19:48 Speaker_05
And so the soft voice replied, well, Mr. Richardson, I must congratulate you on what the examiner has done in the black Dahlia case. You seem to have run out of material. Maybe I can be of assistance.
01:20:05 Speaker_03
And so, after Jimmy very matter-of-factly said, we need it, the soft voice said, I'll tell you what I'll do.
01:20:12 Speaker_05
I'll send you some of the things she had with her when she, shall we say, disappeared.
01:20:18 Speaker_03
Immediately, Jimmy wrote the words, trace this call, on a piece of paper and handed it to his assistant, who jiggled the receiver arm on Jimmy's telephone to get the attention of the switchboard girl.
01:20:28 Speaker_03
The soft voice went on to say that he had Elizabeth's address book, her birth certificate, and a few other items that she had in her handbag. When Jimmy asked when they could expect these items, the soft voice said, Oh, within the next day or so.
01:20:43 Speaker_05
See how far you can get with them. And now I must say goodbye. You may be trying to trace this call.
01:20:50 Speaker_03
Flabbergasted, Jimmy sat back in his chair, lit a cigarette, and said, I think I might have been talking to the killer of the Dahlia.
01:20:59 Speaker_03
And sure enough, two days later, a package arrived at the examiner's office postmarked January 24th, the day after Jimmy Richardson had gotten the call. Written on the front of the package and words clipped from newspapers and magazines was this.
01:21:13 Speaker_05
Here's the Dahlia's belongings. Letter to follow.
01:21:17 Speaker_03
And inside, among other things, was Elizabeth Short's birth certificate, social security card, and a baggage claim check for two suitcases and a hat box at a local Greyhound station.
01:21:28 Speaker_03
But most important was a brown leather notebook filled with names and numbers, what appeared to be Elizabeth Short's address book. Strangely, the name Mark Hansen was printed on the front.
01:21:40 Speaker_03
And believe you me, we'll be getting into Mr. Hansen on the next episode.
01:21:45 Speaker_03
But even more strange was the fact that several pages had been cut out of the book, meaning that it was possible that whoever sent it didn't want the reporters or the police to have certain bits of information.
01:21:57 Speaker_07
Like their name?
01:21:58 Speaker_03
Yes. Oh yeah. But lest the police get too excited, the entire package had been soaked in gasoline, which meant that there were no usable fingerprints on anything that was inside or outside of the envelope.
01:22:10 Speaker_07
That was true freedom back in the day that you could just mail a package soaked in gasoline. Just postman whistling. I'm liking this package. You don't like smell the hell out of it.
01:22:22 Speaker_03
Four days later, though, the promised letter to follow arrived at the examiner. This time it was a handwritten message and very short. It said, quote, Here it is.
01:22:32 Speaker_05
Turning in Wednesday, January 29th, 10 a.m. Had my fun at police. Black Dahlia Avenger.
01:22:39 Speaker_03
Now the cops waited January 29th like it was Christmas Day, and they couldn't wait to find out what the fuck Black Dahlia Avenger meant.
01:22:47 Speaker_07
Oh, they're very excited. I would be if I was a police officer during this time period.
01:22:50 Speaker_02
Oh my god, again, win again, win again, win again.
01:22:53 Speaker_03
They figured it was probably in reference to some sort of wrong that Elizabeth Short had committed, either real or imagined, that the person who had killed her had avenged something.
01:23:02 Speaker_03
But once January 29th came, they thought that they were going to find out for sure. But January 29th came and went. The next day, another postcard arrived at the examiner, this time returning to the cut-and-paste method. It said, quote,
01:23:23 Speaker_03
And after that missive, the newspapers in Los Angeles and the offices of the LAPD were flooded with letters and postcards supposedly from this Black Dahlia Avenger, making it impossible to tell what was real and what was a hoax.
01:23:37 Speaker_07
I wonder if the actual Jack the Ripper has any idea what he did. Yeah, what he started. Yeah, like the fact that this is all tied back and it's all been the same They've been doing this shtick ever since because of him.
01:23:51 Speaker_03
This guy, the Zodiac, BTK.
01:23:53 Speaker_07
It's very interesting. I'll always like, it's fascinating.
01:23:56 Speaker_04
I like it when they yell at the police.
01:23:59 Speaker_03
The false leads overwhelmed the investigation on both sides. And while there were four viable fingerprints taken from the second postcard, it was believed by the FBI that only the first package and the first postcard were from the actual killer.
01:24:13 Speaker_03
Although they may also have their reasons for holding that opinion. From there, though, the police had to contend with the mountain of what they called Confessing Sams.
01:24:23 Speaker_03
These were men and women who didn't do the crime, but wanted to take credit for the murder anyway.
01:24:28 Speaker_07
And that's important to remember throughout this whole series is how people fuck the EPA as it is. We've seen it with JonBenét Ramsey. We've seen it like people want to be attached to the story because it gives them some meaning.
01:24:44 Speaker_07
And so we're going to see a lot of that.
01:24:46 Speaker_03
It was interesting, though, that at least one confessing Sam got attached to another brutal murder.
01:24:52 Speaker_03
Just a few weeks after Elizabeth Short was killed, another woman, a 45-year-old pilot, army nurse, and bit player named Jean French, was found beaten and stomped to death on the corner of Grandview and Indianapolis Avenue.
01:25:06 Speaker_03
On her torso, someone had written a message in lipstick. Fuck you, BD. Presumably, fuck you, Black Dahlia.
01:25:15 Speaker_07
Which doesn't really make sense. Nope. Because it's like, what are you mad about? Nope.
01:25:20 Speaker_03
To be honest, it sounds like it could be... They said it could also be fuck you BP, but it could, you know, who knows. It could be anything, but it was either BP or... Bunky Pepperton!
01:25:31 Speaker_07
Yeah, exactly. The blind dancing boy that was a part of all of the biggest hits on the Los Angeles Broadway at the time.
01:25:37 Speaker_07
The whole thing was that people would lie to him where the stage was and everyone would follow him around and see him be the tap dancer and he was the one with his favorite song, All the World's a Stage. I just wish I could see it. I love that guy.
01:25:50 Speaker_07
He could just be like, uh, fuck you big dick too. It could be anything. It could be anything at all. BD was not, I don't think big dick energy was a thing at the time.
01:25:58 Speaker_03
Yeah. Also that, also the crime, the killing of Jean French, uh, also unsolved to this day.
01:26:04 Speaker_03
The cops believed at the time that Jeanne French had been murdered in a rage by the Black Dahlia killer, because two days earlier, the Herald Express had declared that a man named Joseph Dumais, who would spend years confessing and recanting about Black Dahlia, was the man who murdered her.
01:26:20 Speaker_03
Now the LAPD went back on the link between French and short, but they still had to contend with over 500 confessing Sams, each of whom had to be thoroughly checked out just in case they were telling the truth. That's crazy.
01:26:34 Speaker_03
500, such a ridiculous number.
01:26:34 Speaker_07
And they have to track each one. One down. Because of them, the person probably got away. Oh yes, and almost you wonder if some of them were written by the people that were surrounding the investigation and all of that.
01:26:51 Speaker_03
No idea. Now some of these confessing Sams were led by the press and public opinion to create fantastical stories that were nowhere near the truth.
01:27:01 Speaker_03
See, for a time, it was speculated that Elizabeth Short was gay because she was sometimes known to be in the company of, quote, bossy blondes and women with Amazonian proportions.
01:27:11 Speaker_07
Call me a lesbian. Well, she was seen during her missing week. She was seen several times with a woman, a very Amazonian blonde woman, and another small brown-haired woman with a lot of makeup.
01:27:25 Speaker_03
Now, the gay angle was, of course, salacious, but it also served to further smear Elizabeth Short, because while male homosexuality in Hollywood in the 1940s was condemned, lesbianism was actually seen as the far greater sin and the bigger perversion.
01:27:40 Speaker_07
Because I think some guys, in many ways, we're almost jealous of homosexuality just because that's two dicks. And two penises, the most powerful things that could be in a room having sex with each other.
01:27:52 Speaker_07
And that's like what's hard for people to understand. It's like that was why they have to wrap, they have to kind of put that aside because it's like two penises, that's awesome. That's two men. Those are men making decisions.
01:28:04 Speaker_07
Those are businessmen, policemen, officers.
01:28:06 Speaker_03
You know what I mean? Lesbians. There's a dick going into a hole, I can grasp that.
01:28:10 Speaker_07
And there's a dick on the other side of that hole that's his own dick. Also, it's just two less dudes trying to fuck my wife. Meanwhile, lesbians show they don't need dick. And that's not. It's powerful. Well, that's what they don't like about it.
01:28:25 Speaker_03
Well, it was said that gay women dressed in men's clothing to trick innocent young girls into horrifying, sadistic situations, just like the Black Dahlia murder.
01:28:34 Speaker_03
And a reporter at The Examiner was particularly sure that the murderer was a disgruntled lesbian.
01:28:39 Speaker_07
I think a lot of times they just make angry guitar music.
01:28:44 Speaker_03
These were men trapped in women's bodies, they said. Neurotic, tragic, absurd, and dangerous. And it seemed like this story was actually going to play out when a woman named Christine Reynolds confessed to Elizabeth's murder.
01:28:57 Speaker_03
Reynolds said that she'd met Elizabeth at a gay bar called the Crown Jewel on January 9th, and it killed her soon after, using some of the worst details about the mutilation that had been held back from the public as proof.
01:29:10 Speaker_03
Namely, Christine had said that after the murder of Elizabeth Short, she had, quote, cut some of her goddamn hair off and shoved it up her fucking pussy. And the thing was... This did happen.
01:29:23 Speaker_03
The killer did cut off a piece of skin from Elizabeth Short's pubic area before forcing it into her vagina after her death.
01:29:32 Speaker_03
But when Christine Reynolds was further interrogated, it was found that she had a girlfriend who worked for the LAPD who had told her all the gory details about the mutilation that had been withheld from the public.
01:29:45 Speaker_03
Nevertheless, the lesbian angle continued to be pushed for years.
01:29:50 Speaker_01
Now is she big? Would she be able to carry the body?
01:29:55 Speaker_03
Who knows? All of this came and went in the course of a couple hours. She gets put in the box and starts confessing. One of the big
01:30:07 Speaker_03
tricks that they used with these confessing Sams was the hair color because everyone sort of assumed that when Elizabeth Short was killed that she still had her like famous raven black hair but no she actually dyed it using henna really like pretty recently before so her hair when she was killed was actually kind of a reddish light brown okay yeah so if they didn't know that detail then it was like okay
01:30:34 Speaker_03
You definitely aren't the person who killed her.
01:30:36 Speaker_01
And what happens to you if you're confessing, Sam? Do you go to jail still? No, they just say, get out of here.
01:30:41 Speaker_07
Yeah, they just get mad. Now there are punishments for it.
01:30:44 Speaker_01
Yeah, obstruction of justice.
01:30:45 Speaker_07
Obstruction of justice, you can, but at the time they'd just be like, get the fuck out of here. Probably beat him a little bit. Probably. I mean, man, they beat fucking everybody.
01:30:53 Speaker_07
They beat everybody they used to have I was talking about reading about the LAPD at the time was like they would talk and Investigate new ways to beat people without them believing physical marks. What were those things Billy Jacks?
01:31:09 Speaker_07
Leather with a with a piece of lead in it and they also would use on what's-his-butts rubber hoses Well now I know
01:31:21 Speaker_03
Now the man who was responsible for sifting through all the Confessing Sam stories to maybe find the real killer was also the only guy in Los Angeles who seemed to have a real hook on who the Black Dahlia killer might be.
01:31:33 Speaker_03
That man was Dr. Joseph Paul DeRiver. He was a psychiatrist who worked for the Los Angeles Police Department. He's an interesting guy.
01:31:43 Speaker_03
He is interesting, and of course some people say that he's completely discredited because he made up his job, but you know, it's the 1930s. Somebody's gotta make up the job.
01:31:53 Speaker_07
We made up our job, and people sometimes call us as experts. It's the same thing. I've had people ask me like legit, like professors or police officers ask me questions about crime and it's like, oh, you fucking don't know. You got bamboozled son.
01:32:12 Speaker_07
I have to learn it from you.
01:32:14 Speaker_01
Yeah.
01:32:14 Speaker_03
Yeah, I made this up. I made up this job. This is a job we created. Now, because of the public display of the body and the Black Dahlia Avenger communications, DeRiver was convinced that the murderer would continue to interact with the public. Yes.
01:32:28 Speaker_03
So, if someone wanted to talk, DeRiver would listen. Because DeRiver had already danced to this song once before.
01:32:35 Speaker_07
I love murder. Nah, it's my passion. Criminals are my passion. Sex, crimes, my instrument. Every second of it, and goddammit, I can't get enough of it. I like to be up to my pierced eyebrows. And little girl chasm.
01:32:54 Speaker_03
See, in 1937, he'd worked a case called the Babes of Inglewood. It's now lost to time, but before the Black Dahlia, it was the most disturbing set of homicides the city had yet seen.
01:33:05 Speaker_03
In this case, three little girls, ages seven, eight, and nine, were found raped and strangled to death in a gully in Baldwin Hills.
01:33:13 Speaker_03
Going just off the way the bodies were positioned and the fact that their shoes had been removed and placed next to them, DeRiver deduced that the killer was a sadistic pedophile in his 20s who was meticulous in his appearance, he was religious, and he was remorseful.
01:33:28 Speaker_07
And he's standing right there!
01:33:32 Speaker_03
Stop, stop it! It's hardly a bigger story. Yeah, it's a huge story, yeah. And now, like, actually, I found some information about it, but, you know, there's no fucking Wikipedia page about the babes of Inglewood.
01:33:45 Speaker_03
Well, police soon found something very close to that in a 32-year-old crossing guard named Albert Dyer, who said he lured the girls to the park with a story about rabbits.
01:33:55 Speaker_03
He then separated, raped, and strangled them one by one before preying over each corpse. DeRiver's mostly accurate profile was among the first to ever lead to the capture of a killer in Los Angeles, so DeRiver became a sort of star expert thereafter.
01:34:10 Speaker_03
He also established the LAPD's Sexual Offense Bureau, which led to the California Sexual Offender Registry that was created partly because of the Black Dahlia murder.
01:34:20 Speaker_07
But like all of it, because like there was a little bit of discrepancy, I believe, about Albert Dyer, because they said that he might have been too simple to understand. Yeah.
01:34:27 Speaker_07
And they said that because he was mentally handicapped and they started to talk and ask him a bunch of questions and he'd give him a bunch of opposite answers. And they're not quite certain maybe in the end if he was real.
01:34:36 Speaker_07
And then the worst part about creating the California sexual offender register was that it then being used as a massive tool for evil.
01:34:43 Speaker_03
Yes, it was used to criminalize LGBT people. It was basically used as like a gay list, you know. And that was used mostly during the sex crime panic of the 40s and 50s.
01:34:55 Speaker_03
But DeRiver's actual target with this registry was sexual psychopaths like the man who had killed Elizabeth Short.
01:35:02 Speaker_03
DeRiver believed that particularly nasty sex offenders should be castrated, tattooed on the forehead, and get their ears clipped to a sharp peak so children could easily identify.
01:35:13 Speaker_01
We're gonna make them terrifying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like one of our researchers put it, it's like he wanted to turn them into actual goblins.
01:35:21 Speaker_07
And you know there's a couple of them where it's like, I'll do that anyway. Thank you.
01:35:26 Speaker_06
For free? Oh, the government's paying for this?
01:35:32 Speaker_03
But even though some of his ideas were fucking insane, DeRiver was the one who found the man who might be the key to the entire Elizabeth short mystery.
01:35:41 Speaker_03
See, as was demonstrated by Elizabeth's paranoid behavior in the time just before her disappearance, it just might be that she got herself mixed up with some unsavory characters during her time in Los Angeles.
01:35:55 Speaker_03
These unsavory characters were the men who ran the city's underground,
01:35:59 Speaker_03
Men who had the power to not only cover up one of the most famous murders in history, but to eventually derail an indictment that would have almost certainly resulted in a trial that could have introduced a lot of uncomfortable questions.
01:36:13 Speaker_03
And it's with these men, those questions, and the world where all this happened that we'll return to the Black Dahlia murder next week.
01:36:22 Speaker_05
Call me. Dial your number. Go ahead. I told you I was here. You invited me. It is not my custom to go where I am not wanted.
01:36:33 Speaker_04
I love Doss Highway, man.
01:36:38 Speaker_07
All of this shit fucking, I don't know why this stuff creeps me out. Yeah, man. Because I think that as we get deeper into Elizabeth's short story and you see more and more of like,
01:36:50 Speaker_07
The reason why this really hits the David Lynch vibe more than anything besides the fact that he told the story about how he got hit up by a police officer when later on in life and David Lynch got he said he's like I got something to show you something that you'd really want to see.
01:37:05 Speaker_07
David Lynch's all right, and then they got dinner at Musso and Frank's this is according to David Lynch and He said they had dinner, and they talked about stuff, and he was like at the end the police officer looked David Lynch and said So you're into the black Dahlia case and David Lynch is like it's sort of the cornerstone of a lot of my work, and he's like I
01:37:26 Speaker_07
I want you to tell me what you think of this," and reached into a case and he pulled out a picture of the body of Elizabeth Short lying in the grass. And David Lynch said that he was in front of him, he said he looked at it for ten minutes.
01:37:41 Speaker_07
And he'd never seen it before? He'd never seen it before. It was a new picture of the Black Dahlia body.
01:37:47 Speaker_07
And then he took it away, and it wasn't until he was at home later on that night that he said, what was the difference, what's wrong with that picture? And he was like, it was at night. The body was not found until the morning.
01:38:01 Speaker_03
Whoa! And it wasn't photographed until about 11 a.m.
01:38:04 Speaker_07
Yeah, that is his, so David Lynch has got this, so this whole thing is so fucking mysterious, and we just started it. Yeah. So it seems to me like this person, whoever did it, probably killed a bunch of other people. Maybe.
01:38:18 Speaker_07
If they were very romantic about it and taking photos of their work and shit. Maybe. Or otherwise just be trying to get away with it. I don't know. I don't know. Or it's just one of those where we don't know what patch of grass it was in. I love this.
01:38:32 Speaker_07
I fucking love this shit.
01:38:33 Speaker_03
Yeah, there's a lot, I mean, there's a million theories about who may have done it, why, the motivations, like you can, for every argument you could make, there are six arguments you can make against it. And that's what's awesome.
01:38:44 Speaker_03
Like, yeah, I mean, I guarantee you there are people that just because I said the name Dr. Joseph DeRiver have discredited every single thing that I've said before or after.
01:38:52 Speaker_03
Yeah, just because you even mentioned Joseph DeRiver because in their theory, in their world, they must remove Joseph DeRiver from the picture completely for their theory to be true.
01:39:03 Speaker_07
But that's why we're going to go through as many of the theories as we can.
01:39:05 Speaker_03
Yeah, we're going to go through a fair amount of them. Like next week, we're really going to be getting into like some of the other theories, some of the really interesting things, some of the stuff that does have to do that relates to the art world.
01:39:15 Speaker_03
You know, some of the stuff that relates to the cops. And then on episode three, we're really going to get into some of the theory. as to who personally I think is the best suspect and why.
01:39:27 Speaker_01
We're going to talk about some of those sweet men you mentioned earlier.
01:39:31 Speaker_03
Yes, those very sweet men. Unsavory.
01:39:33 Speaker_07
Unsavory men. And you can go to patreon.com slash last podcast and left you could watch us yell about this You can also go and get our see us live on our stream 600 episodes of this shit Technically, I do believe with all the numbers all together.
01:39:48 Speaker_07
It's probably like 645 I think it's actually more.
01:39:51 Speaker_03
I think we're pretty getting pretty close to 650 at this point. Yeah
01:39:55 Speaker_07
But guess what, man? We make the fuck the rules. Yeah. And that's what it's like. And that's the problem when the newspapers go rogue, because then they make reality, which is what we just did by changing our numbers. We can do whatever we want.
01:40:05 Speaker_07
And we go to lastpodcastandlive.com. Go see us live. That's right.
01:40:09 Speaker_01
We got Atlanta coming up. It's going to be so much fun. The Coca-Cola Roxy. Big ass space. So come and check us out there. And after that, we got, what's after that? We got Dallas in February. We got the Ryman Auditorium in March.
01:40:22 Speaker_07
Detroit. in April, right before four 20, that's going to be a lot of fun. I don't want to get stuck in Michigan on four 20, by the way.
01:40:29 Speaker_01
And we're going to bring our own stuff too.
01:40:33 Speaker_03
What's like the, what's the four 20 version of devil's night.
01:40:38 Speaker_07
We didn't watch great British baking show until they fall asleep.
01:40:46 Speaker_03
Of course, Toronto is also this next year, that's on May 3rd. Don't forget to buy your tickets to that. It's at the Elgin Theatre.
01:40:54 Speaker_07
Yawns, yawns. And so, hail Satan. Do your best to not be Black Dahlia'd this week.
01:41:02 Speaker_03
Try. You know what I mean? Yeah, hell gain everyone.
01:41:03 Speaker_07
But also at the same time, be free.
01:41:05 Speaker_01
Yeah. Don't let that make you afraid. No, be free. Like Elizabeth Short, But not just like her. You know, because obviously you don't want the same result. But she was free. And hey, Elizabeth Short, she seems like a really cool person.
01:41:19 Speaker_07
She's got her moments. She really does, yeah. And I would have thrown it all away for her. You really would have. God, she would have fucking destroyed you. Exactly my type.
01:41:28 Speaker_01
I would have hired her to be a bartender at my restaurant.
01:41:31 Speaker_07
Yes.
01:41:31 Speaker_01
Yes.
01:41:32 Speaker_07
Goodbye.
01:41:32 Speaker_01
Bye.