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Episode: Episode 596: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part III - Your English Teacher Loves Murder

Author: The Last Podcast Network
Duration: 01:38:43

Episode Shownotes

The story of Electus Per Deus continues this week as the boys learn the full extent of Cecilia Steyn's manipulation of her followers through the organization and execution of what would come to be known as "The Appointment Murders."Last Podcast on the Left | LPN | Youtube | Twitch |

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Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_05
There's no place to escape to. This is the last hot ass on the left.

00:00:09 Speaker_08
That's when the cannibalism started.

00:00:20 Speaker_04
Did you listen to more of the podcast? Oh yeah, buddy. Yeah, how was it? Is it getting better? You know what?

00:00:40 Speaker_04
Actually, it made me, I did have a realization as I was listening through Candace's podcast of like, I started to realize a little bit more of the brainwashing techniques. I'll get more into the show. Yeah.

00:00:52 Speaker_04
Cecilia Stein, the more that we read, the more that we cover her, the more we get deeper into this story. This is one of the most puzzling examples of a cult leader and family that I have ever been across. She just seemed so unfollowable.

00:01:09 Speaker_04
Dude, they followed her to fucking, it was jogging pant to jogging pant. They were, butts were pressed. These people were sleeping next to each other in the same beds. That's a part of how she did it. We'll talk about it. She wasn't even attractive.

00:01:23 Speaker_04
Hey, hey, you never known. Krueger's Dorp. Went in Krueger's Dorp. Krueger's Dorp.

00:01:29 Speaker_03
All day I've just been like, Krueger's Dorp. Krueger's Dorp. It is one of the most difficult accents to pin down.

00:01:47 Speaker_04
There's a lot of variances. Everybody kind of sounds different. I feel like some people are more Dutch, some people are more... I don't know what it is.

00:01:54 Speaker_07
It's strange. Now I tried listening to some Afrikaans today to see if I could maybe say some Afrikaans phrases. Couldn't even penetrate it. Couldn't even come close. Try one.

00:02:09 Speaker_03
They're hard to understand. We just lost the whole South African market. Well, not all of them. You only lost the Afrikaans. The rest of them love making fun of them.

00:02:19 Speaker_07
Of course. Ed Larson, how are you, sir?

00:02:21 Speaker_03
Oh, I'm doing good. I'm doing... I was just thinking about my time in Soweto. It was so hot, man. Yeah, you could say it was so wetting my balls off.

00:02:31 Speaker_04
We didn't even get in. We didn't even begin this story.

00:02:36 Speaker_07
We have to immediately dig ourselves out of a hole. And we're recording this on Halloween.

00:02:41 Speaker_05
It's Halloween, Halloween.

00:02:44 Speaker_07
I've listened to the Monster Mash twice today, once on the radio and once by myself on my own volition. Have you listened to the Monster Mash yet? Yes, I did.

00:02:52 Speaker_03
I listened to the Halloween song from the Oogie Boogie Bash a couple of times. No, not anymore. No, no, no! Stop it! No! Halloween, Halloween, everybody!

00:03:03 Speaker_04
But you know what I realized? What's his name that does Monster Mash? Bobby Boris Pickett. He has a follow-up song. He had a follow-up album. Yeah, I put it on my Halloween soundtrack for tonight. Monster Rash. It's disgusting.

00:03:16 Speaker_02
Get some cream and you put it on your mummy bone. Uh-oh, sounds like that old vampire was a bit too popular.

00:03:29 Speaker_04
We're here for the Kruger's Derp Cult Murders Part 3! And now we're really gonna get covered in blood.

00:03:37 Speaker_07
My god, this is a bloody episode. So when we last left the Electus Perdeus cult, they'd just committed a double murder on the command of their leader, Cecilia Stane.

00:03:46 Speaker_04
And that was the first one. Think about this. I just constantly want to put people in the mindset because I feel like last episode, some people were talking about why did you take a kind of meandery trip through the middle of this cult?

00:04:00 Speaker_04
And I think it's really to try to make you understand the jump from being little church people. I'm talking about the most churchy, churchy, dumb shit people.

00:04:11 Speaker_07
Well, pushy fundamentalist church people, let's be fair here.

00:04:15 Speaker_04
But that is obviously the secret ingredient that turns them into truly mass murderers. According to Candace, which I do actually kind of believe, that they had way more than 11 victims.

00:04:27 Speaker_07
Yeah, they might have. Some people think it might be 15, 16, somewhere around there. Why not just admit it? Because they were saying they weren't guilty of any of them. They were trying to get away with it.

00:04:39 Speaker_07
Well, Cecilia had told Electus Prudeus that if they killed a member of their former group, Overcomers Through Christ, they would be saving a group of fictitious orphans in America who were being killed en masse because the Overcomers Through Christ were praying for them and activating the death curses that had been placed on their souls.

00:05:00 Speaker_07
Got it?

00:05:01 Speaker_03
Got it.

00:05:02 Speaker_07
Alright, but as absolutely ridiculous as that sounds when you boil it down to its essence, the first murders committed by Electus Perdeus were scary enough to make Rhea Grunewald shudder the overcomers through Christ, because she fully believed that one of her people had been murdered by satanic witches.

00:05:18 Speaker_04
And, you know, it's bad. It's bad, right? They're bad. They're bad at it. It's bad what they're doing. But it's just like, you know, if it was done by another group of people, it's kind of interesting.

00:05:28 Speaker_04
I mean, the fact that Rhea Grunewald, that's her first response. That shows how deep the brainwashing went.

00:05:35 Speaker_07
She's already broken off. Well, that's the thing is that with Rhea Grunewald, I don't even know if you could consider it necessarily brainwashing because she was already on that tip to begin with.

00:05:46 Speaker_07
She already believed that Satanists were running the world and were hiding behind every corner. Rhea just fucking pulled her further in. And then what sounds like what Candace... Cecilia just pulled her further in.

00:05:55 Speaker_04
And it sounds like what Cecilia then also did was give Rhea purpose and evidence of the fact that her life was actually meaning something.

00:06:05 Speaker_07
Ironically, Rhea Grunewald was also the main suspect in the double murder because police had interpreted the Overcomers Through Christ literature found in the murder victim's home as occult material and had therefore concluded that Overcomers Through Christ were a secret occult group and Rhea was a closet Satanist.

00:06:23 Speaker_04
I love it when they all turn on each other.

00:06:26 Speaker_07
The truth is that she's the closest, she's the most occultist person of all of them.

00:06:31 Speaker_07
Well, she's the expert, but that's the thing is that absolutely nobody had any idea what was really going on except the leader of Electus Perdeus, Cecilia Stane, who was proving to be a master manipulator on a level that is nearly inconceivable.

00:06:46 Speaker_04
You know that she's an actual master manipulator? Is her use of the term townhouse. in the description of where they all live.

00:06:56 Speaker_04
She constantly, whenever I was watching a bunch of trial footage, and then when someone brought up an apartment, she was like, it was a townhouse. And there's something about that, that just shows me that I hate you.

00:07:11 Speaker_03
Was it a tiny yard? Do you think it was almost like a duplex? It was a duplex, actually. Yeah, townhouse.

00:07:16 Speaker_07
Townhouse. The kill crew on the double murder had been Zach Valentine and his wife Mikayla, and it was Cecilia's command that Mikayla be the one to kill the intended target's neighbor, the neighbor that had been used as a decoy, if you'll remember.

00:07:31 Speaker_07
Mikayla, however, couldn't go through with it, because unlike her surprisingly ruthless husband, she was not a killer.

00:07:38 Speaker_07
The double murder actually greatly traumatized Michaela Valentine, who soon went full goth by dyeing her hair black, dressing in Hot Topic gear, wearing dark makeup, and falling deep into a gloomy depression.

00:07:55 Speaker_03
It's crazy though because that's what she'd like these again.

00:07:58 Speaker_04
These are Christians now. She's so sad and so she's a murderer She's she's actually not a murderer. She did not commit murder, but She's an accomplice. But straight up, it's like she became a satanist. More of a witness, yeah.

00:08:23 Speaker_07
Yeah, she did accidentally become a satanist.

00:08:25 Speaker_04
She's just there all making it real.

00:08:27 Speaker_07
But it is like, it's that weird thing of like, that's how I feel inside. And she actually was.

00:08:33 Speaker_03
Oh yeah, of course, she fucking watched the mass murder.

00:08:36 Speaker_04
Two people get brutally stabbed to death in front of her.

00:08:38 Speaker_03
I mean, it's just like, you watch the crazy murder and you're like... I need to go shopping.

00:08:42 Speaker_04
I need a new wardrobe.

00:08:43 Speaker_03
I need to dye my hair.

00:08:46 Speaker_04
This hair's like not me anymore. Yeah, you know, honestly, she's got that shirt that says, hang in there with the cat hanging on the ledge, you know, just been like, Oh, I don't know if this is, I think, you know what I need?

00:08:58 Speaker_04
I need some Shirley Manson gear.

00:09:02 Speaker_07
Michaela's change in demeanor, however, meant absolutely nothing to Cecilia Stane. In fact, Cecilia relished in the fact that she had convinced others to commit murders on her behalf, so she very quickly zeroed in on her next target.

00:09:16 Speaker_07
Now, it seems to me that part of Cecilia's game was completely perverting the beliefs of the people she manipulated.

00:09:22 Speaker_07
For example, by this point, she'd convinced her fundamentalist Christian followers to bomb a prayer group, burn down a church, and murder a committed Christian that they all knew personally, not to mention the murder of an innocent old lady.

00:09:42 Speaker_04
Christian beliefs that even led them to this.

00:09:45 Speaker_04
This is one of the, you can't blame, we've talked about this, I think we talked about this last episode, about every other cult, we're trying to find sympathy for the people that are involved, where it's just this, it's like, they had kind of the perfect set of original attributes to jump into.

00:10:03 Speaker_04
Bombing a fucking, like bombing and burning a church is wild to me. Right now, it's do you think they're just stupid? Yes, and arrogant.

00:10:12 Speaker_03
I know it's rude to say stupid.

00:10:14 Speaker_07
No, they're murderers No, they're stupid and arrogant and they're there they believe that they are the hands of Christ stupid I think is the wrong word naive I think is a better word for I think they're naive and but that's the thing.

00:10:24 Speaker_07
It's arrogant is very much the right word

00:10:26 Speaker_04
I believe it's like a malignant naivete. It's like this idea of they're floating in this world of God's gonna take care of shit, where it's just like, don't you think God would also take care of the satanic armies as well? He's more equipped.

00:10:38 Speaker_04
Doesn't he have a giant army of angels with spears and fucking floating eyes and many wings covered in flames?

00:10:45 Speaker_07
Ah, but they cannot come till Judgment Day. Why? Because. That's what he said. He could change it.

00:10:52 Speaker_04
Executive order. We need an election. God needs to be replaced.

00:10:57 Speaker_07
Well, after taking the manipulation to these heights, Cecilia decided to take the sacrilege to the highest level possible by convincing her followers to murder a retired pastor named Reg Ben Dixon. Yeah, I can't. It's a murder victim. He got killed.

00:11:14 Speaker_04
I know, I know. It's bad to murder. I know, it is. It is. It's super bad.

00:11:20 Speaker_03
It's bad to murder.

00:11:23 Speaker_07
No, in early August of 2012, Cecilia began telling the members of Electus Perdeus that Reg Bendiction was one of, quote, Rhea's people, which is how Cecilia now referred to Overcomers Through Christ.

00:11:35 Speaker_07
See, what she was doing here, she was separating their past lives. It's not like you were a part of Overcomers Through Christ and this is Overcomers Through Christ and we're going to kill this group that you were a part of.

00:11:46 Speaker_07
She gave them a different name. It's very, very important for the manipulation. nomenclature, basically, when it comes to cults. Where does this lady learn all of this stuff? We talked about it again and again. She's a reader. It is innate.

00:11:59 Speaker_07
There's something about human beings, a certain type of human being, all of us are naturally good at something. Everybody in the world is naturally good at something. You're just built for this one thing.

00:12:10 Speaker_07
Yeah, I'm good at eating pussy and playing basketball.

00:12:14 Speaker_07
But some people just have this innate knowledge of how to be a cult leader and how to Manipulate people and how to be a leader like some people are big you talk about a natural-born leader Like they're not always fucking quarterbacks.

00:12:30 Speaker_07
Yeah, sometimes there's Cecilia Stane. Oh, I'm looking for my Cecilia And just as an aside, if you're wondering why they didn't just kill Rhea Grunewald, that answer is twofold.

00:12:41 Speaker_07
Firstly, a big part of Cecilia's game during this time period in the cult's life cycle was torturing Rhea because Rhea had rejected Cecilia personally. It was just simple revenge.

00:12:51 Speaker_07
But the other reason had to do with a lie Cecilia had told years before.

00:12:56 Speaker_07
If you'll remember from the last episode, Cecilia had claimed that her biological mother had been ritualistically sacrificed in Cecilia's place because her former coven couldn't get to Cecilia for unspecified reasons. We don't need to specify reasons.

00:13:08 Speaker_07
It's just reasons. But after that fictitious sacrifice, Cecilia told Rhea that Rhea had been granted maternal rights over Cecilia and all of her many multiple personalities.

00:13:20 Speaker_07
That meant somehow that if Rhea were to be killed, then Cecilia would also die.

00:13:25 Speaker_07
Although I suppose the reason Cecilia gave as to why she didn't die when her mother died was because those maternal rights had been transferred before Cecilia's mother was sacrificed on the altar of Satan.

00:13:34 Speaker_04
And that's only just because Satan had control of the House of Representatives.

00:13:38 Speaker_04
And actually takes about two to three I believe two-thirds of that to restore the maternal rights Okay, eventually in you that filibuster can actually be put in place at some point, but again you got a logjam You got to get the whip you know that wasn't put though.

00:13:52 Speaker_04
You know whip the majority yeah Yeah, yeah, I think so I think I described it correctly there's also that I think the factor of I What is Batman without his Joker? That's true. Like, I feel like Rhea is the villain. It's the central villain.

00:14:07 Speaker_04
Like, if you knock out Rhea, then if you immediately knock out the most powerful member of the inner Satanist cabal.

00:14:15 Speaker_07
Oh yeah, kill you? Why would I kill you? You're so much fun.

00:14:18 Speaker_04
Yeah, that it's like, I need you. And then thinking about them blaming the double homicide on Rhea, I can't stress it enough. Rhea looked like Angela Lansbury. Smallest, goofiest hair. Dude, they're all like six-year-old ladies.

00:14:33 Speaker_07
Yeah, like 40s, late 40s, early 50s, something like that.

00:14:37 Speaker_04
She's not dressy.

00:14:39 Speaker_07
An unhealthy 55.

00:14:40 Speaker_04
And I don't mean this, she looked like shit. Like, it's like, she's just like, oh no, I couldn't possibly have done that. She can't open a bag of Doritos. Like the idea that she could fucking stab somebody a bunch of times.

00:14:59 Speaker_04
It's just so funny them pulling her in there and be like, we believe in your Satanist, your leader of the Satanist cabal.

00:15:05 Speaker_05
And she's just sitting there going like, I just, I just made a doily, but the doily took so long of my thumb.

00:15:18 Speaker_07
Concerning Electus Perdeus' next target, Pastor Reg Bendixson, nobody in the cult knew him personally, and it's a little unclear as to why Cecilia chose him in particular.

00:15:28 Speaker_07
It seems like Bendixson was merely convenient, because Cecilia was able to tell whatever story she wanted to about Reg.

00:15:35 Speaker_07
Well, the story that Cecilia told was that it was actually Pastor Reg who had led Rhea astray by stealing her sermons and perverting them to spread the message of Satan. And that was the real reason why the Overcomers were now doing Satan's bidding.

00:15:50 Speaker_04
So Rhea wasn't to blame at all. She was just reading the prompter.

00:15:53 Speaker_07
Yes.

00:15:54 Speaker_04
Yeah. Rhea was reading the prompter. The anchorman prompter is what she had.

00:15:59 Speaker_07
Yeah. Go fuck yourself, God.

00:16:00 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:16:01 Speaker_07
And if they killed Reg, Cecilia posited, then maybe the Overcomers would return to the light, although there were no guarantees.

00:16:08 Speaker_01
I've just noticed, Fred, in your latest draft of my sermon, it says at the end, Hell-Satan.

00:16:15 Speaker_02
Did you mean that, or is this like... Yes, I'm sorry, I must have misspelled Santa. It's close to Christmas.

00:16:23 Speaker_01
Yes, well, I just thought I should go ahead and read this anyway. I should say Hell-Satan.

00:16:31 Speaker_02
Well, Shavaro's wild. Haters incitin's this league that we serve.

00:16:39 Speaker_07
Either way, Cecilia believed that it was worth a shot, so Electus Perdeus began planning the murder of a bonafide man of God. But not everyone was on board with Reg's murder.

00:16:50 Speaker_07
Marcel Stane, the 14-year-old daughter of the schoolteacher Mirinda Stane, no relation to Cecilia, she vociferously questioned if it was right to murder a former pastor. The 14-year-old!

00:17:04 Speaker_04
Also, remember, it's a family. She has got an entire little family that is doing this.

00:17:09 Speaker_07
She's got a mother with two young, like, high school age kids. One was 14 and one was 18 at this time.

00:17:15 Speaker_03
Kids ask the most questions. Yes, absolutely.

00:17:19 Speaker_04
It is the babes of the most innocent auntie. Like, she could see, like, freaking out. She's just raising her hand, being like, all right, listen, I get it. Satanist cabals knocking them out. Don't know what they look like we found one.

00:17:32 Speaker_04
We're gonna get one just seems like it's a We're gonna kill a priest. I just feel like it's like one of those things. It's like not like it doesn't really hold water.

00:17:41 Speaker_05
They're all like You fucking bitch!

00:17:45 Speaker_07
Well, Cecilia, ever ready with an answer, shouted that this was war.

00:17:49 Speaker_07
They were all living in the end times, and how dare Marcel question her while Pastor Reg was actively plotting to kill people just like Cecilia, who just wanted to escape the clutches of Satanists.

00:18:00 Speaker_02
First thing on my to-do list was, number one, get my boots fixed. Number two, more anchovies. Number three, subjugate the Christian church, one lesbian at a time.

00:18:19 Speaker_07
Well, to justify the murder, Cecilia cited the Old Testament, saying that God had told David to murder women and children. This was either a misinterpretation of the passage on Cecilia's part, or more likely, a willful distortion.

00:18:31 Speaker_07
But in the end, it was what finally worked. We got everyone on board.

00:18:35 Speaker_04
She just says that, and they all go like, You know, actually, yeah.

00:18:39 Speaker_07
Yes.

00:18:39 Speaker_04
Yeah. Wow.

00:18:40 Speaker_07
Absolutely. What's important? Well, either that or, you know, she's a 14 year old girl. What's she gonna do? What's she gonna do?

00:18:45 Speaker_04
And they've already, she's already watched, uh, they murdered a bunch of people. Now you're kind of, you're there.

00:18:50 Speaker_07
Well, I don't think Marcel hadn't, I don't think Marcel had gone on the first murder.

00:18:54 Speaker_04
But they were all talking about it. No, she knew.

00:18:56 Speaker_07
She definitely knew it was up, but she's not really in a position to argue. Oh yeah. What's important to keep in mind about all this, though, is that even though Electus Pradaeus were a small group, not everyone knew about the murders.

00:19:09 Speaker_07
See, it's not like they were all living on a compound together, nor was this a day-to-day cult where people lived a lifestyle based around the leader's teachings. Instead, this was a cult comprised of meetings, get-togethers, and hangouts.

00:19:22 Speaker_07
So if they wanted to keep some members in the dark about the murderous side of the cult, all they had to do was not include them on the planning committee.

00:19:29 Speaker_03
Oh my god, just showing up once a week for fucking bowling and you're like... Hey, what's going on guys?

00:19:35 Speaker_07
It's exactly what it was. Some people, exactly, they showed up once a week for like a meeting.

00:19:40 Speaker_04
Hey guys, so, power of Christ, huh? Alright, let's go bowl. We're going to go bowling.

00:19:46 Speaker_07
And they didn't know that there were three meetings in between the last meeting in which they were planning the murder of a pastor.

00:19:52 Speaker_07
Now, Zach Valentine had already proved himself to be a capable and enthusiastic killer, but after Michaela had balked at committing murder herself, it showed Cecilia that the rest of them could use a little practice before going into the next mission.

00:20:06 Speaker_07
So, they procured a pig's head, and Cecilia made her followers practice murder in her bedroom of all fucking places by stabbing the pig's head with knives and burying axes into its skull.

00:20:19 Speaker_03
I probably put down some newspapers.

00:20:23 Speaker_04
Got some cats, but that's good Cecilia like it is interesting in that way because when they were all the way she talks about it Is that I feel like it's this selling so we she sells things where I?

00:20:36 Speaker_04
Something keyed into me with with Candace where I realized it was something that Candace had said Candace also remember Candace is the biggest idiot of them all yes and That's why she has a podcast.

00:20:48 Speaker_04
Only the world's biggest idiots record their thoughts.

00:20:54 Speaker_01
So she keyed into something, which is like, what I didn't understand is that if Cecilia was always wrong, How did she knew what I was doing in her dreams?

00:21:03 Speaker_04
Because she said they would astral project together.

00:21:06 Speaker_04
One of the big exercises they would all do is they would sit and astral project and go around, because she said she could teach you how to like leave your body and go and spy on people, do all this kind of shit.

00:21:17 Speaker_04
And I started to realize, because she would say that what they did at that point, Candace, she would get someone to be sleeping in her bed, right? That's the part where the rumors came from, is that they were sleeping in bed together.

00:21:27 Speaker_04
And what she was doing, in almost Bugs Bunny like fashion was whispering into her ear as she was sleeping. And it is, I now believe that is exactly what she was doing.

00:21:40 Speaker_04
And that she was, which is the reason why she knew everything that she said, because she said that Cecilia would do this like nighttime rap.

00:21:48 Speaker_04
where she'd start talking about how we're all gonna go together in our dreams tonight, and she would start it as everyone's going this, when she would do these astral projecting parties, and they're all like slumber parties, and it's the way she sold it, where it's like, ah-ha-ha, like the stuff with the pig's head, that was like viewed as like pumpkin carving, you know what I mean?

00:22:05 Speaker_04
Where it was like a funny evening of like, oh my God, what are we doing tonight? This is crazy. Meanwhile, they've already killed two people, but they're still like, this is, we're crazy tonight, you know? And they're all just stabbing a head.

00:22:15 Speaker_04
So it's this weird like, subtle yet utterly not subtle way of telling you they're turning you into a murderer.

00:22:22 Speaker_03
Well I think like it almost I think I brought this up in the last episode it's almost like when someone pretends to go along with a hypnotist just because they want to be a part of the party. And that's called being hypnotized technically.

00:22:35 Speaker_07
But really it's not subtle at all because she's telling them like you have to get good at murder so you have to stab this pig's head. But then it's how she does it.

00:22:44 Speaker_04
Then she brings it and goes like what a fun pig head stabbing game we're playing and they're like oh yeah I love pig stabbing and we're like pig stabbing is my favorite new South African game.

00:22:54 Speaker_07
When Cecilia felt that everyone was ready, the plan to kill Pastor Reg Bendixson was put into motion. Zach Valentine and LaRue Stain, Mirinda's teenage son, made a call to Bendixson's home to make an appointment for spiritual counseling.

00:23:08 Speaker_07
Bendixson readily agreed and made plans to meet at a coffee shop called Mug and Bean the next Monday afternoon.

00:23:16 Speaker_03
That's where Christ does his best work. At the coffee store. Don't even kill me until I've had my coffee.

00:23:26 Speaker_07
But just before the meeting, Zack cancelled the appointment. The whole thing was just a ruse, I think, to check Ben Dixon's schedule, and specifically to see when his wife would be out of the house. Just to fucking laugh at him.

00:23:36 Speaker_04
They're watching him from across the street, watching him go and being like, looking at his watch going, I guess Christ can't help you be on time.

00:23:46 Speaker_07
And somehow they learned that Mrs. Bendixson came home late on Mondays. So they chose the following Monday to kill Pastor Reg. But killing Pastor Reg was only part of the game here.

00:23:57 Speaker_07
To ratchet up the fear, Electus Perdeus used their burner phones to once again pose as satanic witches. And they began texting the members of Overcomers Through Christ that a pastor was going to die and there was nothing they could do about it.

00:24:10 Speaker_07
No one told the pastor? Well, that's the thing. Growing even more bold, they texted Ria and told her specifically to say her goodbyes to Pastor Redge.

00:24:20 Speaker_03
This is a funny, sarcastic joke. It says here that they're going to turn the pastor into Pastor Hart. What is even that?

00:24:30 Speaker_07
Incredibly though, for reasons I can't understand, nobody seemed to warn Reg, or if they did, Reg didn't or couldn't do anything to protect himself. Because as we're going to get into later, the South African police, not great at their jobs.

00:24:45 Speaker_02
No, no.

00:24:46 Speaker_07
Really not great at their jobs.

00:24:48 Speaker_02
What if I just actually said, thank God, I'm relieved.

00:24:55 Speaker_07
Please release me from this life. And so, on their second outing involving murder, Zach Valentine once again took the Tex Watson role and led Mirinda Stain and her 14-year-old daughter Marcel on a mission to brutally murder a pastor.

00:25:11 Speaker_04
I never got to do anything fun with my dad.

00:25:15 Speaker_07
Again, the crew wore wigs. Zack had a long, luxurious red wig. While Mirinda wore a short, black bob wig.

00:25:24 Speaker_05
Yeah, now you're the lady! And I'm the guy!

00:25:28 Speaker_07
Horrendous a fucking piece of work.

00:25:30 Speaker_04
We're gonna get there whoo the difference this time was that they also had police uniforms that belonged to Cecilia's husband whose role as a cop will play a big part later on in this story And if they were there they the uniform was just hovering there by how fast he left after work Specifically wouldn't be home ever to see an ounce of cult activity and

00:25:55 Speaker_07
So, armed with axes and knives, Zack, Miranda, and Marcel drove to Pastor Reg's housing complex and stopped at the security gate.

00:26:03 Speaker_07
Using a burner phone, Miranda called Pastor Reg and told him that they were police who had questions about the murders of Natasha Berger and Joy Boonsayer. The very murders they themselves had committed. Pastor Reg, of course, buzzed them in.

00:26:20 Speaker_02
Of course, I love to discuss violence.

00:26:23 Speaker_07
But since it would look weird if there was a 14-year-old police officer in tow, Marcelle Stain was crouched down behind the car. And when Marinda and Zach pulled in, Marcelle crept in after them.

00:26:35 Speaker_07
She would not participate, but she would witness the entire ordeal to come. So, after chatting about the phony murder investigation for just a few minutes, Zack walked up behind the 72-year-old pastor and smashed in Reg's skull with his weapon.

00:26:50 Speaker_07
Zack then stood over Ben Dixon's prone body and chopped his head over and over again with an axe.

00:26:58 Speaker_08
It's casual.

00:27:02 Speaker_07
Respectful. On a violin. Don't worry about it, old joke. But while he was doing it, Mirinda joined in and proved herself to be just as bloodthirsty and aggressive as Zack.

00:27:15 Speaker_07
She stabbed him in the chest and stomach 13 times and kept doing it until Pastor Reg's blood stopped pumping. They then left Reg's body in his own flowerbed and fled the scene covered in blood.

00:27:28 Speaker_03
Oh, they did it outside?

00:27:29 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:27:30 Speaker_03
Yeah. I mean... How do they not get caught? It's an apartment complex.

00:27:33 Speaker_07
Big fences. When in Kruger's Dorp. Well, these are housing complexes. They're not apartment complexes. In South Africa, think of it as a gated community. And those are really tall walls.

00:27:47 Speaker_03
They keep them, they're like 10 feet tall, I remember.

00:27:49 Speaker_07
Yeah, and really like the most noise you're gonna hear from Pastor Edge is like right when the fucking axe goes into his skull. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, he wasn't conscious for the rest of it.

00:28:01 Speaker_04
And then the sound of his soul escaping.

00:28:06 Speaker_03
Was that a fart?

00:28:09 Speaker_04
It was out of his mouth. No, that wasn't a fart. That was the soul coming out of his mouth.

00:28:14 Speaker_03
That sounds like a soul coming out of a mouth.

00:28:21 Speaker_07
Getting back into their rental car, which I'd imagine had to be cleaned quite thoroughly before they returned it. I don't know. I don't know if these guys are super conscientious renters.

00:28:29 Speaker_07
They drove to a pre-planned location where Michaela Valentine was waiting with another car.

00:28:35 Speaker_07
The murder crew then changed clothes and headed home, throwing their bloody garments and their murder weapons out of the car window on their way back to Kruger's Dorp.

00:28:44 Speaker_07
Michaela, meanwhile, asked the crew to recount all the gory details, like how long did it take him to die? What kind of weapons did you use? How many times did you stab him?

00:28:53 Speaker_07
But it's most likely that Michaela was just feigning interest because she didn't want to get into trouble with Cecilia again for not being enthusiastic about murder.

00:29:01 Speaker_04
That's how I was good at English class. Even if I was falling asleep, you just always make sure whenever you get asked a question, you have to improv a good answer, whatever it is.

00:29:10 Speaker_04
Also, I found that in English class, if you ask a lot of questions about the reading, you don't have to do the reading.

00:29:16 Speaker_05
That is the biggest key!

00:29:17 Speaker_04
I didn't understand that until about junior year, and then I was like, I don't have to read anything if I just say like, what does the color red represent in this paragraph? You can just say things that sound like you've been pondering it.

00:29:31 Speaker_04
Deflection, that's nice.

00:29:33 Speaker_07
But the person who had surprised themselves most that day was Mirinda Stain.

00:29:37 Speaker_07
And it's important to note that this woman, the woman who had stabbed this pastor until his blood stopped pumping, she was still teaching high school English every weekday during this entire saga. Your English teacher loves murder.

00:29:53 Speaker_07
She later said that she loved the act of murder, that she felt a release afterward, an adrenaline rush that was both scary and exciting.

00:30:02 Speaker_04
You know how you're scared of your teachers sometimes? It's why. It's because they are craving your blood. They want to cut you open. They want to see your entrails.

00:30:12 Speaker_07
It's a very frustrating job from what I'm told.

00:30:14 Speaker_04
I think it's because of questions like Eddie and I's, where we realized how we could derail the entire class.

00:30:21 Speaker_04
All she probably thought about is that she probably, as she was stabbing him, she just thought of a big fat-faced kid that looked just like Eddie with a big dolphin's head and going, uh... Can we have lunch again?

00:30:36 Speaker_07
She said that she didn't know it until she did it, but she'd been waiting her whole life to murder someone. Wow.

00:30:43 Speaker_03
Good for her. I guess there's only one way to find out. Yeah.

00:30:47 Speaker_07
Well, she put it in a way that was appropriate for a teacher. Murdering Regbin Dixon was like taking an exam where you have all this tension beforehand, but after you write and pass it, there's a release that's very enjoyable.

00:30:59 Speaker_04
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It must be a lot like an essay writing portion on an exam.

00:31:04 Speaker_07
And for me, hearing the school teacher talk about how much she loved murder really goes a long way towards explaining how normal people are able to participate in large-scale horrors like the Holocaust and other genocides.

00:31:16 Speaker_07
See, some people are like Michaela Valentine, who are immediately repulsed by killing no matter what the justification, but they basically go along to survive, which only encourages the people in the other group, people like Miranda Stane.

00:31:30 Speaker_07
See, people like Miranda would otherwise never murder someone unless they were given a righteous reason. But when they finally do it, they find that they absolutely love it.

00:31:40 Speaker_07
In fact, the bar for justification just keeps getting lower, specifically because they want reasons to do it again and again.

00:31:49 Speaker_07
Now extrapolate those dynamics to millions of people and you can start to understand how horrible things are committed by seemingly normal people on a fucking massive scale.

00:31:58 Speaker_07
Do you think if they stopped after this guy they would have not gotten caught yes Yeah, they would have moved on they would have moved in like but actually if they would have stopped after the next Four people they wouldn't have gotten caught crazy.

00:32:11 Speaker_07
Yeah, but you also know like five

00:32:17 Speaker_04
Maybe think that they there's something to the idea of like once you've been killed for that reason you then kind of put your own Superiority like you begin again gain a sense of superiority. Oh, you're an avenging angel.

00:32:31 Speaker_07
Yeah at that moment Yeah, like you are one of God you are a Christian soldier.

00:32:35 Speaker_04
Yeah, you know and an actual one Yeah, everybody else who sings about it on Christmas has no fucking idea what they're talking about because I've tasted blood

00:32:45 Speaker_07
And not only that but you're good at it. Yeah, and you love it So you're gonna do it more because it makes you feel really fucking good.

00:32:52 Speaker_04
Hey, man. It's always about finding something What can you throw yourself into all the way?

00:32:56 Speaker_07
Mm-hmm now incredibly the main suspect for the murder of Regimen Dixon was once again Rhea Grunewald

00:33:04 Speaker_04
Like they tried it like she's trying to open the door to the police station I can't be here too long.

00:33:11 Speaker_05
I have to get back to my plants

00:33:21 Speaker_01
Yes, I did drive three hours to murder.

00:33:25 Speaker_07
Yes, this is our suspect for the brutal ex-murder, out in Johannesburg.

00:33:29 Speaker_05
I used to be a pot, and then I was magically transformed into a woman.

00:33:37 Speaker_07
Well, they linked these murders because the murder of Regimen Dixon had all the hallmarks of the double murder committed by Electus Perdeus.

00:33:44 Speaker_07
Rhea, meanwhile, believed that all of this was the work of the Satanic Church, who was once again framing her for their own murders.

00:33:51 Speaker_04
Rhea, get your shit together!

00:33:54 Speaker_07
Now Rhea completely refused to hear any other point of view as to what was going on that didn't involve Satanists.

00:34:01 Speaker_07
She did finally lawyer up after being accused of a third murder, but she almost immediately fired him when he scolded her for being so deeply involved in a lot of horseshit that was obviously ruining her life.

00:34:12 Speaker_04
What are you talking about? I'm steadily losing the war to Satanists.

00:34:18 Speaker_07
But when she fired her lawyer, her children, who had already had a strained relationship with her, they went no contact.

00:34:25 Speaker_07
Because like we're seeing today with people lost to the QAnon and MAGA cults, people like Rhea live in entirely separate realities that are impenetrable to those who don't believe.

00:34:35 Speaker_04
And again, it's her arrogance.

00:34:38 Speaker_04
It is because she believes that she is correct, and everybody else that is screaming to say, no, no, you are not correct, is wrong, because she is fueled by the power of Christ, and she was chosen by Christ in order to help people on this planet.

00:34:55 Speaker_04
And guess what who Christ doesn't choose? Anybody, because Christ is dead. If Christ was a man, he's dead, all right? And he can't do anything now, because he's fucking worm food. And everything else is going on around him. They're all fucking dead.

00:35:08 Speaker_04
The other guys are dead. The gay dudes that follow him around are fucking dead. Mary Magdalene's fucking dead. They can't do jack shit. God shot himself in the head two years ago.

00:35:17 Speaker_03
Oh yeah, after he found out about J.K. Rowling.

00:35:20 Speaker_04
Oh, he was so upset. He can't believe how much work went into that.

00:35:26 Speaker_07
Surprisingly, God's a Hufflepuff. It seems like Cecilia knew that she was in effect untouchable when it came to these murders, because the day after Pastor Reg was killed, one of her cultists left a pile of bloody meat on Ria's doorstep.

00:35:45 Speaker_05
There was a note beside it that said, quote, Sorry, this is all the doggies left you. Here's your own little piece of Reggie. It was not, however.

00:35:59 Speaker_03
And she looks back and forth Spicey needs pineapple

00:36:11 Speaker_07
It was not, however, Reggie's flesh. Rather, it was the leftover brains from the pig's head that Electus Perdeus had used to practice murder.

00:36:18 Speaker_07
The very same pig's head that had been in the home of a police officer who was willfully turning a blind eye to everything happening around him.

00:36:26 Speaker_04
Deaf ear, a mute mouth, he had wrapped his head in fucking plastic. He is anywhere but this house. I just want, I want his life. I want to be in that beautiful, oblivious life of that man. Just walking around.

00:36:40 Speaker_03
Talking shit to fucking teenagers over online gaming. Yeah.

00:36:45 Speaker_04
He's like playing FIFA, saying the F word, fucking with the guys, leaving, going down again. He's like, I need some more monster energy drink. I'm gonna go down there and they're just like, oh, the hot dogs look good today.

00:36:56 Speaker_04
You know, like in the 7-Eleven. Just hanging out there for half an hour talking to the guy, going to look at the milk, being like, new milk in, huh? Like, what an incredible life that guy has. What meds does he on?

00:37:08 Speaker_03
Oh, honey, you left your wolf teeth by the bed again.

00:37:11 Speaker_07
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Who are you? Maria took this pile of pigs brains to the police who?

00:37:17 Speaker_04
Amateurishly asked her to put it back where they found it so they could take pictures They then searched her apartment treating her like the prime suspect Then they accused her of knocking shit over go through all the fucking humble figurines You don't be like tearing up pictures of the Pope

00:37:39 Speaker_07
They then accused her of being the one who sent the threatening text messages that were supposedly coming from Satanist. One woman operation!

00:37:45 Speaker_06
I literally don't know how to use my own phone! The phone is magic!

00:37:53 Speaker_07
Now, if I had to guess as to why the cops made Rhea their prime suspect, the only answer I can come up with is that the cops had created this story that Rhea wanted her satanic panic story to be true so badly that she was making it a reality herself by sending texts, faking threats, and murdering three people.

00:38:12 Speaker_04
You know, they're not... I will say they are doing it poorly, but if you're looking at who is the center of all of these murders...

00:38:20 Speaker_03
There's gotta be so many innocent people in South African prisons.

00:38:24 Speaker_07
I know. Dude, it's gonna get so much worse. And to that point, I can honestly, I can see why Rhea Grunewald thought that the Satanic Church had infiltrated the South African police.

00:38:34 Speaker_04
Because she must think that, obviously she's flawed, but she must think she's going insane.

00:38:39 Speaker_03
Oh yeah, because it's happening to her. Yeah, people are dying.

00:38:42 Speaker_04
You're like, it's not like, it's like at some point you're like, I know you, like, you have to be delusional to even believe all the other stuff, but still, like, it's just like, you're like, I seriously can't like stress enough just how brutal the murders are that are right next to me, you know?

00:39:00 Speaker_05
And it's not me, it's like very much not the little old lady.

00:39:06 Speaker_07
But as we've said before, we must always be very careful to never confuse incompetence for malice. From what it seems to me, the South African police had somewhat the right idea, but the wrong person. Oh, yeah.

00:39:19 Speaker_07
And it could very well be that this confusion may have been deliberate because the more likely person in this scenario was, if you'll remember, married to one of their own.

00:39:28 Speaker_04
Yeah, I mean definitely also just the you could just see them looking like I mean You read the text and you know, these texts are not from a cabal of evil Satanists like you know that do you I don't know how many of these fucking cops think that the cabal is real That's true.

00:39:44 Speaker_07
They do think it's all real some of them do some of them don't it also could be a whole bunch of laziness That's a big part. Yeah, I mean cuz that's the thing you said you said that you know She is the person in the middle of all this.

00:39:54 Speaker_07
She's the link that connects all these together But it's like they don't have the critical thinking skill or they don't have the gumption to go beyond that No, it's like oh this person's in the middle of all of it. Yeah, they probably did it.

00:40:05 Speaker_07
Yeah Fucking get her ass. Yeah, we don't need it. It's just

00:40:10 Speaker_04
As I'll go into later... Hey, Daryl, can I go beat the fuck out of the old lady now? Is that cool? Can I do that? Because I've been wanting to. Can I?

00:40:19 Speaker_07
Now, as I said, Marinda Stane was absolutely invigorated by the murder of Regbin Dixon, and she wanted more. But her son, LaRue, was understandably troubled that his mother had so fervently taken to killing.

00:40:31 Speaker_04
I do not know, mommy, why you have become so antagonistic. Because I seem to remember when I came out your beautiful pussy as smooth as a seal's back. It is good to be fresh, South Africa.

00:40:53 Speaker_07
Well, La Rue started numbing the pain with drugs.

00:40:57 Speaker_04
I have a nice fresh off of heroin.

00:40:59 Speaker_07
I don't know why La Rue and Marcel. It's very French. But Marcel, she'd actually witnessed the murder of Reg Bin Dixon. And she went the opposite direction and threw herself into schoolwork and total denial.

00:41:11 Speaker_07
Michaela Valentine, however, was having the hardest. School and denial and going to a great college. Take you away from there. Michaela Valentine, however, was having the hardest time accepting the turn that Electus Perdeus had taken.

00:41:26 Speaker_07
She tried overdosing on pills, but she survived, and afterward told her mother that she was scared because other people who'd left Electus Perdeus had been killed.

00:41:35 Speaker_07
That some of the other murders that they think Electus Perdeus may have been responsible for. And she also said that the police were starting to ask her questions that she couldn't answer out of fear for her own life.

00:41:47 Speaker_07
So we do know there was some investigation going on on the periphery of Electus Prudeus, but not enough.

00:41:55 Speaker_07
And as it turned out, Michaela had very good reason to be scared because Cecilia had already decided that it was time to start the inevitable purge from within that usually happens with violent cults. Well, usually, always.

00:42:07 Speaker_07
Always, because you gotta take some of the dead leaves off.

00:42:11 Speaker_03
And it's easier to kill them.

00:42:12 Speaker_07
Well, people start asking questions, and they start asking like, well... Why are we doing this? Well, this isn't what I signed up for. Like, that's always someone starts saying, like, this isn't what I signed up for.

00:42:21 Speaker_07
And if you want to keep moving forward, that person has to go away, but after you've already committed violent crimes, that person can only go away one way, and that's...

00:42:30 Speaker_04
And that's what these guys don't understand. That's what the people they murdered inside of the cults don't understand. Is that they, because they hold forbidden knowledge, they are, they are, have a short expiration date.

00:42:40 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:42:41 Speaker_04
It's like the mafia, except the shoes are worse.

00:42:44 Speaker_05
Oh yeah, this is bad fashion mafia.

00:42:47 Speaker_07
Yeah. So Cecilia did what she did best and she began manipulating the other members, essentially committing murder by gossip.

00:42:54 Speaker_07
Playing heavy on the sunk cost fallacy, Cecilia told the others that if Michaela left Electus Per Deus, then she'd probably go to the cops. And if she went to the cops, the cult would go to jail.

00:43:04 Speaker_07
And if the cult went to jail, then that was end game for all those American orphans.

00:43:08 Speaker_08
Not the orphans! No!

00:43:10 Speaker_07
And that would make the three murders that they'd already committed totally meaningless. So what's another murder? The most flabbergasting part of this is that Zach Valentine, Michaela's husband, he was immediately on board with killing his wife.

00:43:23 Speaker_07
Hot dog! At this point he believed that it was his destiny to marry Cecilia. I know. So by murdering his wife he was one step closer to greatness. And then I can see the secret. of the hair gel. What's under that windbreaker? I'm gonna know soon enough.

00:43:46 Speaker_04
My god, I love your Steve Buscemi-like body.

00:43:52 Speaker_03
Always wanted to be with a lot lizard.

00:43:57 Speaker_07
No, she's the one that chases the lot lizards away.

00:43:59 Speaker_03
Get out of here, I told you to get out of here. You're stealing my cock.

00:44:05 Speaker_04
Alright, I'm going away. Don't want to take all the cock.

00:44:09 Speaker_07
And so, when Michaela inevitably confided in her husband and told him that they should maybe think about leaving the murder cult, he decided then and there that it was only a matter of time.

00:44:19 Speaker_03
Wow.

00:44:20 Speaker_07
On October 3rd, 2012, about two months after Pastor Red was killed, Michaela told Electus Perdeus that she was leaving. I'm putting in my two weeks.

00:44:30 Speaker_07
And as soon as Michaela left the room, Cecilia told her kill crew that they had an obvious mission ahead of them.

00:44:36 Speaker_04
You know who we're going to murder next? I want you all to know that we are going to murder someone very important next. It's Michaela. She's just in the other room, like getting ice in the water.

00:44:51 Speaker_07
But as opposed to their other intricately planned murders, this one was going to be relatively simple. Actually, now that I say it, this isn't relatively simple at all.

00:44:58 Speaker_07
There's a whole, everything has this fucking Byzantine network of fucking plans within plans upon it.

00:45:04 Speaker_04
Because it gets them busy on the details of the plans and they're not thinking about the murder until it's too late.

00:45:08 Speaker_07
That's very true.

00:45:09 Speaker_03
And they're just creating more evidence.

00:45:11 Speaker_07
Mm-hmm the plan was to send Miranda and Marcel and to Zack and Michaela's house to kill Michaela and Trash the house to make it look like a robbery gone wrong.

00:45:19 Speaker_07
That's the simple part Zach meanwhile was set to meet a real estate agent under the auspice of selling his home And when they walked into Zach's house to find Michaela's dead body Zach could be like, oh no, they murdered my wife Oh, no, what happened?

00:45:33 Speaker_07
You have to practice that guys practice that and

00:45:37 Speaker_04
My wife! Very good. Very convincing. Very good.

00:45:44 Speaker_08
My heart!

00:45:45 Speaker_04
No! No! No! That's a part of my vocal warm-ups in the morning. I pretend I find Natalie dead.

00:46:00 Speaker_07
So at 8 a.m.

00:46:01 Speaker_07
On October 4th the very next day after Michaela told electus per deus that she was leaving Marinda and her 14 year old daughter Marcel drove to Zack and Michaela's house with a 14-inch serrated knife and a hammer Now tell me do you want the hammer or you want the knife, honey?

00:46:17 Speaker_03
Better weapons

00:46:19 Speaker_07
I think they liked it. It's that whole, like, make it witchy thing. Like, if the weapons are just simple, it looks horrible.

00:46:26 Speaker_04
Also, I think that they, to be honest, I don't think they knew where to get weapons. I think that they're just getting what they get.

00:46:31 Speaker_03
Her husband's a cop. They're stealing his uniform. They can't take a gun?

00:46:35 Speaker_07
They'd show later on they know exactly where to get weapons.

00:46:38 Speaker_04
Most of the stuff's from the hardware store.

00:46:40 Speaker_07
Yeah, I think they just wanted it to be like a horror movie. I think they wanted it to be like a horror movie. You want as much blood as possible.

00:46:47 Speaker_03
I forgot they were obsessed, or Cecilia was obsessed with horror movies.

00:46:50 Speaker_07
Oh, yeah. Well, for Zack's part, he made sure to drug Michaela's coffee before leaving for work to make sure that the murder would be an easy one.

00:46:59 Speaker_07
And so, just after Zack gave the signal to Miranda and Marcel when he was on the way out of the house that Michaela was passed out, the murder crew walked inside.

00:47:08 Speaker_07
When the mother and daughter found Mikayla fast asleep, Mirinda, hungry for another murder, she bashed Mikayla's head with a hammer, working herself into a frenzy.

00:47:17 Speaker_07
She soon switched to the knife, stabbing and slashing Mikayla over and over again, all in front of her 14-year-old daughter. But, as we all know from Ed Kemper, it's far harder to kill someone without a gun than you might think.

00:47:30 Speaker_07
And Mikayla woke up in the midst of being murdered. All she could get out was the word Mirinda, to which Mirinda said, I'M GOING TO MURDER YOU NOW!"

00:47:40 Speaker_07
But as Mikayla mumbled out a prayer in a drugged stupor, Mirinda remembered that Cecilia had requested that the teenage Marcel participate in the murder as well.

00:47:49 Speaker_07
Mirinda handed her daughter the knife and told her to stab Mikayla, but Marcel only gave it a half-hearted attempt, claiming that the knife wouldn't go in. Unfazed, Mirinda said that it was alright because she was almost finished anyway.

00:48:02 Speaker_07
And after taking the knife back, Mirinda stabbed Michaela over and over again until both the prayers and the blood spurts ended. In all, Michaela Valentine was stabbed 64 times, which does sort of negate the whole robbery gone wrong angle.

00:48:18 Speaker_04
You know, would you call that gentle parenting? It's okay.

00:48:22 Speaker_07
I can take it. It's definitely more grace than my dad gave me when we tried fixing the fucking lawnmower.

00:48:28 Speaker_04
Oh, God forbid I try to help my father with anything technical. Like, I can't even imagine trying to murder somebody with my dad. He would be on my ass.

00:48:40 Speaker_07
After Michaela died, Marinda and Marcel wrapped the body in a heated blanket because Cecilia had told them that heating up the body would cause it to decay quicker and the time of death would be harder to determine.

00:48:51 Speaker_04
Cecilia's just sitting in the townhouse. Just making up random shit.

00:48:56 Speaker_07
In staying with the original plan, Miranda took all the valuables from the home, then went back to Cecilia's apartment where they all sat around watching DVDs with LaRue.

00:49:05 Speaker_07
I mean, it's just incredible to think that they just sat there watching movies after committing an 8am murder on a Thursday.

00:49:27 Speaker_03
I was gonna guess Wedding Crashers.

00:49:33 Speaker_07
I looked up what movies were really big that year. I'd say Pitch Perfect.

00:49:38 Speaker_03
I can see that making the jump over the ocean. Oh yeah.

00:49:42 Speaker_07
Or 21 Jump Street, either one. Both fun.

00:49:45 Speaker_04
Yeah, fun. and staying with you. Well, technically, if it's a Celia, it is just horror movies from top to bottom. That's all she would watch. She would watch. They said that like hundreds and hundreds of horror movies.

00:49:56 Speaker_03
Well, that's likable.

00:49:59 Speaker_04
Yeah, it makes me kind of get her.

00:50:02 Speaker_07
But while the murder crew were hanging out at Cecilia's, Zach Valentine had to complete his part of the plan.

00:50:08 Speaker_07
At 2 p.m., about six hours after his wife was murdered, Zach showed up to his house with the real estate agent, a woman named Estelle Schuette, who was there to take photos for a listing and show the house to some potential buyers that afternoon.

00:50:22 Speaker_07
And so when Zach and Estelle parked in the garage, Zach made a big show of saying that his wife was at home before they headed inside.

00:50:29 Speaker_04
You're gonna love my wife. She's totally alive, and she is the nicest lady in the living room, alright?

00:50:35 Speaker_04
We're gonna go up the four flights of stairs to my wife, and we're gonna go say hello to her alive face, and we're gonna hang out, and you're gonna look at our totally unsullied half-bath. Zippity-doo-dah, somebody! Do you sell houses often?

00:50:54 Speaker_07
The house, however, was dark, and Zach kept calling out, hello, my love, over and over again, until they finally found Michaela's body. Zach, of course, gave it the perfunctory, oh no.

00:51:04 Speaker_05
Oh, it got, oh. Oh, not alive.

00:51:08 Speaker_07
And Estelle called the police. Zach, meanwhile, went to the kitchen to get some juice, because he was diabetic, and seeing the body of your murdered wife apparently dropped your blood sugar. It's good to know. Yeah.

00:51:18 Speaker_07
Zach then called his father while they waited for the cops. But after hanging up, Zach asked Estelle, quote, this is what Estelle said that he asked her.

00:51:26 Speaker_04
Will you still be able to sell the house? Are the buyers still coming this afternoon? Because I don't want to miss on that. I know how hard that is. Should I get a little scrub brush? Honestly, I feel like this way, we could bump it up. True crime.

00:51:40 Speaker_07
True crime real estate. Dumbfounded has still told Zach that she'd already canceled the appointment. Damn, dude. That's fast.

00:51:47 Speaker_05
You even fucking ask me? Yeah, come on. I'm trying to sell this house.

00:51:51 Speaker_07
Now, by 4.30, both the police and the trauma counselor were on the scene, but the counselor was also surprised when he heard Zach laughing and chatting with his parents on the phone.

00:52:00 Speaker_04
Yeah, I told her he wouldn't even believe it. We were coming up the elevator and the first thing I was just being like, my wife's totally alive upstairs.

00:52:06 Speaker_04
And I was just like, you're going to say hello to her alive face and we're going to go through the living room. She was the most alive woman in the living room. The egg on my face. You wouldn't believe it, dad. You would have loved it.

00:52:19 Speaker_07
Likewise, the police were surprised when Zach asked them how long they were going to be carting his wife away. Wow. Because he was worried about the cats. Yeah.

00:52:26 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:52:27 Speaker_07
Had to feed the cats. They get sad. Yeah. This was a question he asked multiple times to many people at the scene.

00:52:32 Speaker_04
We wrapping this up soon? We gonna slap her in a doggy bag or something?

00:52:37 Speaker_03
It's gotta be easier to pick her up with all the holes, huh? Get a fork or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's gotta be lighter without all the blood. Blood has to weigh a lot, right?

00:52:44 Speaker_04
What I was thinking too is we don't even have to take the stairs. We could just slide her body out the window.

00:52:49 Speaker_07
And his almost eager desire to return to the scene of his wife's murder was seen as strange, to say the least. Zack even joked to Estelle that she was supposed to take pictures of the house.

00:53:00 Speaker_04
So he turns to her as the police are taking pictures of the crime scene and he says, You'll get your photos, just not the ones you had in mind. Man, he's a funny guy. He's a real funny guy.

00:53:11 Speaker_07
Is he Rob Schneider? You know, that's the thing, is that sometimes, you know, like, dark comedy, that's just how you deal with it.

00:53:16 Speaker_04
Yeah, I mean, that's the idea.

00:53:17 Speaker_07
Gallows humor. Just jokes, that's how you deal with the murder of your wife immediately after it happens.

00:53:23 Speaker_04
64 stab wounds.

00:53:24 Speaker_04
Like, it's not even like, yeah, it's not like she got, it's an accident, I mean, not that any form of your wife being murdered is better or worse, but if she's turned into charcuterie and you're just like, man, we're wrapping this up, actually I gotta, I'm supposed to learn how to play racquetball at four.

00:53:43 Speaker_07
Saying nothing would have been better. Yeah. Yeah, that's what these people always do They always get really chatty because they're nervous so they get chatty and they don't and they're not but they're not feeling anything So they forget themselves.

00:53:55 Speaker_07
They're not good actors Now all of this behavior was extremely suspicious and the ominous feeling at the scene only grew when police discovered two assassination kits under Zach and Michaela's bed that included a pair of gloves a balaclava Cable ties knives strangling wire and a handgun

00:54:11 Speaker_07
No, it's our whole ISIS role-playing thing.

00:54:14 Speaker_04
It's our whole thing. I'm Osama Bin Laden, you know what I mean? She comes in.

00:54:19 Speaker_07
She's President Georgina Bush, if you get it.

00:54:23 Speaker_03
What's a balaclava?

00:54:24 Speaker_07
That's like the thing that you put over your face to hide your face. Yeah, ski mask. Balaclava. Zach, however, wasn't questioned or taken into custody.

00:54:32 Speaker_07
He was left at home, and that night, instead of sleeping on the couch, he just flipped over the bloody mattress where his wife had been killed, and he slept just fine on the other side.

00:54:42 Speaker_03
Hotel room, you know, call your cousin.

00:54:45 Speaker_07
Anything, not flip over the mattress. Now, concerning cult relations here, there were still people that were not firmly in either Cecilia or Ria's camp.

00:54:54 Speaker_07
Melanie van der Merwe, for example, she was still talking to both of them, and she told Ria that Michaela Valentine had been murdered. Again, Rhea had the right idea, but the wrong motivation.

00:55:07 Speaker_07
She immediately thought that Cecilia was responsible, and the death of Michaela Valentine also put together some pieces in Rhea's mind that made her think that Cecilia was also probably behind the deaths of Natasha Berger and Pastor Regbin Dixon.

00:55:20 Speaker_01
I think I finally know what's happening here.

00:55:24 Speaker_07
What she got wrong, though, was that she believed that Cecilia was collaborating with the Satanic Church, but was acting alone, while everyone else in Electus Prudeus were completely innocent.

00:55:34 Speaker_07
In other words, her insane worldview was completely distorting reality and was preventing her from seeing what was really happening.

00:55:41 Speaker_04
Because she can't possibly believe that she is not the subject of the forces of Satan. And they are not coming to topple her most powerful, truly redemptive version of the power of Christ. She literally just thinks that it's all about Rhea.

00:56:01 Speaker_07
Well, I think it's also because she can't believe that the other people on Electus Perdeus are cult members because she's still seeing them as lost sheep.

00:56:08 Speaker_04
Because she thinks anybody that's not saved the way she saved is lost sheep. Because you remember, she was in the group, so she was there. She was the founder of the group. And essentially, I think it's almost the idea of being like, pull them.

00:56:22 Speaker_01
If my magical powers can't work, they're all just a bunch of lost cats.

00:56:28 Speaker_03
Also, it's not like she's doing a worse job of finding out who the killer is than the cops.

00:56:32 Speaker_07
No, she's actually closer than they are.

00:56:33 Speaker_03
What if OJ just shows up?

00:56:37 Speaker_07
Cecilia, meanwhile, was telling the members of Electus Perdeus who weren't involved in Michaela's murder that it was the Overcomers who'd killed her.

00:56:44 Speaker_07
Everyone knew, however, that it wasn't a coincidence that Michaela had been killed the day after she left, and they took note that whether it was the other members of Electus Perdeus or the Satanic Church itself who did the deed, death was the consequence of disobeying Cecilia.

00:56:59 Speaker_07
Going even deeper into that concept, Miranda directly told her children, Marcel and LaRue, that if they ever told anyone what happened, or if they tried to run away, then she would kill them herself. Just like she'd murdered people twice before.

00:57:13 Speaker_04
Just remember, I'm the baby factory, and I can make two more just like you. It's kind of funny because that's like... Truly, that was like a joke my parents used to say. Not every parent has that one.

00:57:25 Speaker_04
They would be like, you know, like, I brought you into this world and I'll take you out. Oh, yeah, they all say that.

00:57:29 Speaker_07
It's a Bill Cosby joke.

00:57:30 Speaker_04
Oh, I know. Now some of the people who would... Oh, I know, it's one of my favorites.

00:57:37 Speaker_07
Now some of the people who had just a foot in the door of this cult were shocked enough by Michaela's murder that they slowly began backing away, but they never fully left after seeing what had happened to Michaela.

00:57:48 Speaker_07
See, while cult member Amber Dupreeze was initially drawn closer into the cult by the murder of Natasha Berger, she now began to realize that Cecilia was the real danger here, so she limited herself to weekly meetings to keep up appearances.

00:58:02 Speaker_04
What, like, yo, so she became, like, elapsed?

00:58:04 Speaker_07
Like per deus? She goes to mass on Sundays, but not on Wednesday nights. I get it.

00:58:10 Speaker_07
But Amber's boyfriend, James Vermach, he started spending more time with the cult after the murder of Michaela Valentine, and he became closer to Zach, possibly out of some sense of sympathy for the death of Zach's wife.

00:58:22 Speaker_07
But once Vermach came closer, Cecilia started grooming him for the murder crew by giving her a knife from her personal collection. This, it was said, this was how you knew that Cecilia liked you.

00:58:34 Speaker_07
But as far as their next murder victim went, the logical choice was Rhea Grunewald.

00:58:39 Speaker_07
But, as I said earlier, Cecilia had painted herself into a corner when she said that Rhea couldn't be killed lest Cecilia die as well due to their so-called maternal bond.

00:59:04 Speaker_04
She couldn't die. What if Rhea was unable to be killed?

00:59:12 Speaker_07
But Cecilia still wanted to hurt Rhea as badly as she possibly could, so it was finally time to take it to the highest level. Electus Perdeus decided to murder Rhea's son Joshua.

00:59:23 Speaker_04
Second highest level.

00:59:25 Speaker_07
What's the highest level? Is it Rhea?

00:59:27 Speaker_04
Rhea! And then God. Himself. For being a double agent. Did you know that? Oh, I didn't realize that was happening. Yeah, God's a fucking double agent, dude. For Satan. On himself. That's what's going on here. That's why he made abortion awesome and illegal.

00:59:48 Speaker_07
Now for justification for murdering Rhea's son, Cecilia once more returned to the orphans, who had pretty much become priority number one for Electus Perdeus.

00:59:57 Speaker_04
Now when talking to the American officials, like honestly, like where are the orphans? America. Are they just in a, like they're in like a warehouse, like it's like a Batman, old Batman cartoon, like are they all like tied up in one big rope?

01:00:11 Speaker_04
Are they just like hanging out there with the evil Satanists going like, yes, the one thing Satanists love more than anything is hanging out with Especially fucking whiny-ass orphans.

01:00:24 Speaker_07
No, these are orphans that have been sent to a special orphanage because their Satanist parents had abandoned them because they didn't want the kids to grow up in Satanism.

01:00:33 Speaker_04
Dude. Evil Annie, dude. That's a fucking show right there, man. Evil Annie, Satanist children, and the fucking everybody's a problem child? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I'm writing that.

01:00:45 Speaker_07
Really? Now, Cecilia said that she was having visions that the Satanic Church was using someone to target the safety of the orphans, and that someone was Joshua Grunewald.

01:00:56 Speaker_07
For Joshua's part, he was very much just some guy working at a tech company who had, at best, a frayed relationship with his insane mother, being the only one of Ria's children who still spoke to her. And he spoke to her sporadically at that.

01:01:10 Speaker_04
He's doing his best to not be involved.

01:01:13 Speaker_03
Proving all the other kids right. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's what happened when you barely talked to mom.

01:01:19 Speaker_07
Yeah. Yeah, you get involved in a murder plot. But when Cecilia named Joshua as their target, the only one who pushed back was James Vermont.

01:01:27 Speaker_07
He had been called into the inner circle for this one, but was apparently unaware of all the murders Electus Perdeus had committed previously.

01:01:34 Speaker_04
Yeah. But my thing is, honestly, I thought this was going to be like an orgy kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like I came here kind of thinking- That's usually what an inner circle is.

01:01:44 Speaker_04
I thought that this was going to be, I thought we were going to have a sex with the whole family. I was like kind of interested in that. That was kind of what I was really hoping for.

01:01:51 Speaker_04
You know, having sex with the daughter, having sex with the son, having sex with the mom, having sex with the daughter, with the son, having sex with the son and the mother in one. You know what I mean?

01:01:58 Speaker_07
You're telling me we're going to murder someone? Fuck.

01:02:03 Speaker_03
I'm glad we weren't overcomers, but I thought we were at least comers.

01:02:06 Speaker_07
I mean, jeez. Well, James spoke to Cecilia alone and suggested that maybe, as Christians, Wasn't murder kind of wrong? Like, sort of a biggie? Oh no. First mistake.

01:02:18 Speaker_07
But Cecilia pulled out the Old Testament once again, saying that God ordered murder all the time, so why shouldn't she do the same if it was justified?

01:02:26 Speaker_04
Which it always was. Because it was God. And then the New Testament, technically, theologically, is supposed to, like, rebirth the idea of the angry, vengeful God into a more considerate, forgiving God.

01:02:39 Speaker_07
Nah, you know what they do. They like to pick and choose the shit that they like and put it to the new one.

01:02:43 Speaker_04
And it's the true also. If God was real, he'd be a fucking asshole. He would be a fucking... Think about that. He gives AIDS to kids. He likes it.

01:02:53 Speaker_07
Now James was somewhat convinced but still struggled to understand why they were allowed to break the first commandment so willy-nilly. But he nevertheless agreed to put a tracking device on Ria's car so they could find Joshua.

01:03:06 Speaker_07
Now the plan to kill Joshua was to call him where he worked, a place called Internet Solutions, and tell him that he needed to come out to fix their Wi-Fi. Because their Wi-Fi wasn't working, you gotta come out and fix it.

01:03:17 Speaker_07
Well, you know, yeah, okay sure, but Joshua was a systems engineer. Yeah, I don't do Wi-Fi Installation you're talking the cable company.

01:03:25 Speaker_07
Well, he kept referring them to IT because the company did do they were called internet solutions they were like an IP like they were an internet company back before it all got bundled in with cable.

01:03:35 Speaker_04
Have you typed in www.websitename dot South Africa. Have you unplugged it and waited two minutes and then plugged it back in?

01:03:48 Speaker_07
Have you? Well, he kept referring them to IT, no matter how irate they became in their constant calls. He's like, I'm sorry, it's not my job. I don't know why you keep calling me and asking me to do this. This isn't my job. I don't do this. Yeah.

01:03:59 Speaker_07
When this plan didn't work, the cult decided to just follow Joshua until no one was around. They jump him, throw him in the trunk of the car, stab him to death and bury his body.

01:04:07 Speaker_03
Yeah, done. That is very proficient.

01:04:10 Speaker_07
In preparation, Cecilia even had Leroux pre-dig graves in three locations, one of which would be chosen depending on the location of the murder. You never want to be too far away from an open hole.

01:04:21 Speaker_04
Yes, I know that for certain. All I want to be is within two to three moist inches of a big wide gaping open hole.

01:04:35 Speaker_07
Finally, they decided to contact Joshua Grunewald directly through Zach Valentine, who used his job as an insurance agent as an excuse to contact Joshua so he could sell him life insurance.

01:04:52 Speaker_07
Joshua actually agreed and set up a meeting with Zack outside of his workplace. At that meeting, just like they'd done with Natasha Berger, Zack pumped him for intel that could be used to work up a better murder plan.

01:05:04 Speaker_04
Where do you eat sleep? What's your favorite thing to do on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? What do you do nights? What do you do in the morning? What do you do? How do you get coffee? Where do you go for coffee? Why don't they just kill him then?

01:05:15 Speaker_07
Well, because you got to get the information so no one else is around. Meanwhile, in a risky attempt to get James Vermock fully on board, Cecilia bragged to him about how she got Zach to murder Pastor Regbin Dixon with an axe.

01:05:30 Speaker_07
Zach then said, oh yeah, I totally murdered that guy with an axe.

01:05:34 Speaker_04
You know what I did, buddy? Man, that day was a fucking day. It was awesome, buddy. You're not recording this, are you?

01:05:41 Speaker_07
This confession, however, had the opposite effect on James Vermont.

01:05:44 Speaker_04
Oh, yeah, it should have.

01:05:45 Speaker_07
Yeah, it freaked him the fuck out.

01:05:46 Speaker_04
Yeah, because they're all like, buddy, if you're here for, oh, you thought you were going to fuck this family? No, no, friend, we're killing people.

01:05:53 Speaker_07
Yep. Vermak, however, did not go to the police immediately because he, like many people in these types of realities, was able to hold two opposing ideas in his head at the same time.

01:06:04 Speaker_07
He believed Cecilia when she said that the police were working for her, so he couldn't go to him for that reason.

01:06:10 Speaker_07
But he also believed that the police were working for the Satanic Church, meaning that he thought he had nowhere to go with the information he was given.

01:06:17 Speaker_07
So, after calming down and realizing that he would die if he pushed back any further, he pretended like he was gung-ho for the murder of Joshua Gruenwald, while also trying to figure out how to escape the cult.

01:06:29 Speaker_04
Can I give a—this is a helpful get-out thing, alright? For anybody right now, let's say you are listening to this episode while you, yourself, are stuck inside of a death cult and you want to leave. This is what you do.

01:06:44 Speaker_04
Hey, I'm going out to the store to buy some bullets.

01:06:47 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:06:48 Speaker_04
Don't come back.

01:06:49 Speaker_03
It doesn't even have to be bullets. It could be Pepsi.

01:06:51 Speaker_04
Go out there and just say, like, if there needs to run, like, anytime someone says, oh, we're out of toilet paper, you just go like, I'll make the run.

01:06:58 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:06:59 Speaker_04
Don't come back.

01:07:00 Speaker_07
Yeah. Just fucking keep driving. But the problem with that was with these people in this worldview is that they believe that they can get you anywhere. No matter where you go, they're going to be able to find you and they're going to get you.

01:07:11 Speaker_04
But I just don't really understand because then isn't God also. That's a whole thing is that isn't God super powerful?

01:07:16 Speaker_07
Well, no, it's but that's that you're you're applying logic to this thing. You can't apply logic to this thing at all to none of this. It's cognitive dissonance at its best.

01:07:26 Speaker_07
They're holding a bunch of opposing ideas in their head that don't make any sense.

01:07:29 Speaker_04
I think it's cognitive dissonance at its worst. Unbelievable. Cognitive dissonance at its best was the Smile album.

01:07:36 Speaker_03
Oh yeah, it really was.

01:07:40 Speaker_07
Well, as far as why he was spending less time with Electus Perdeus, Vermont told Cecilia that he was really just under a lot of pressure at work.

01:07:48 Speaker_04
Just so stressed. Like, you know, that's what it is. That's why I reacted negatively to the plan of murder. I was just so like, You know, I just got so much going on. It was so much on my plate.

01:07:58 Speaker_07
Yeah, so he had to concentrate on that for the time being instead of their holy war against Satan. Hey, you know.

01:08:03 Speaker_07
Finally, though, Zack approached James and asked him if he was in or out regarding the murder of Joss Gruenwald, telling Zack quite explicitly that if he was out, he was going to end up like Michaela. Cecilia then told him the exact same thing.

01:08:17 Speaker_07
In Way Too Deep, James said, sure, totally in for murder. Just say when. I'll move the numbers meeting to Friday.

01:08:26 Speaker_07
Behind their backs, though, James confided to a friend from work named Justice Ramashia about the whole situation and asked him how he thought they could prevent Joshua's murder, not to mention his own.

01:08:40 Speaker_04
Advice yeah, you want to go get tender greens What would you do? Absolutely, I think the main thing is that take all of Brad's notes You're gonna want to collate like a lot of the pages here.

01:08:53 Speaker_04
So that's so yeah, if you're looking for advice Yeah, that's what I tell you.

01:08:56 Speaker_03
No, it's more of like I'm in this death cold Oh yeah, yeah. You too. So are you an overcomer or an undercomer? Oh no, no, I work for the government. Oh great. Yes, we're gonna kill a man named Josh.

01:09:14 Speaker_07
Justice who's an incredible work friend. Yeah, that is a Very trusted work co-worker. Yeah, he came up with a plan now.

01:09:23 Speaker_04
It's a little confusing, but James vermont played by Seth Rogen Since that quite the tough sit I'll tell you what you got to do man. You just gotta let that bitch cry it out Murder is a little more casual over there.

01:09:42 Speaker_07
It does seem so. It's the fourth highest murder rate in the world. Yeah.

01:09:46 Speaker_07
Now it's a little confusing, but James Vermont convinced Electus Perdeus that because his friend Justice was an undocumented immigrant, he could be the one to kill Joshua Grumwald, and then he'd just disappear. And Zack agreed.

01:09:59 Speaker_04
Yeah, Justice comes, he's like, hola, compadres. Si, si, me necesito murdero, because...

01:10:10 Speaker_07
Then me have reason to go back to Mexico fingerprints Entirely for it Zach agreed, but when he gave justice the gun and a payout justice just disappeared and nobody got killed The money and Ron good for you.

01:10:24 Speaker_03
Yeah way to go man

01:10:32 Speaker_07
Weirdly though, Cecilia didn't immediately follow up on the plan to kill Joshua. Instead, they just sort of sat on it.

01:10:39 Speaker_01
Honestly, it's just ruined for me now.

01:10:42 Speaker_07
I like his name. It's like you trust people and it just... Break your heart. Break your heart. Every time. But them sitting on it gave James the time to build up the courage to finally go to the police.

01:10:56 Speaker_07
He told them everything he knew, which included direct confessions to multiple murders and two credible threats for future murders. And so James was set up with a wire.

01:11:07 Speaker_07
And next time he visited the cult, he recorded not only full confessions to the murders of Natasha Berger, Joy Boonsayer, Regbin Dixon, and Michaela Valentine, but also the future plan to one day get around to maybe killing Josh Gruenwald.

01:11:21 Speaker_04
Yeah, so all right, so they were arrested. We'll see you next week. What a great series.

01:11:27 Speaker_07
Good work, Marcus. You'd think that would be the end of the story.

01:11:30 Speaker_07
That James would return to the cops with the recordings and the Electus Prudeus cult will be arrested immediately and bing bang boom we got this weird story of a Christian cult who pretended to be Satanists and killed four people.

01:11:41 Speaker_07
Oh my God, what a great series. But that's not at all what happened. See, James Vermaak and his girlfriend, Amber Duprees, were placed into witness protection.

01:11:52 Speaker_07
And Joshua Grunewald was contacted by the National Occult Unit and warned about a Satanist plot to kill him, albeit two weeks after James Vermaak turned in the tapes. They had to go through a lot of tapes.

01:12:06 Speaker_07
But absolutely nothing happened to anyone in Electus Perdeus, and we have no idea why.

01:12:14 Speaker_07
It's claimed that the files containing their confessions were corrupted or damaged somehow, and there was supposedly some sort of investigative kerfuffle that derailed the whole thing.

01:12:25 Speaker_07
But we do know that the information did make it through some pipeline because Joshua Grunewald was warned and he did move away as a result. And the other two were put into witness protection. Paperwork had to be filled out for that.

01:12:37 Speaker_07
And later, police officers would claim that they had infiltrated the cult after they got the tapes. But there is no evidence of this claim at all. From what it seemed, someone just made the whole thing go away.

01:12:52 Speaker_04
Or it's another example. It could possibly be another example of, if you tell everybody, we've spent all this money creating these occult crime investigative units. This entire country is gripped in a religious fervor that is still reverberating.

01:13:09 Speaker_04
It's now officially killing people. We have, as a government agency, the government came forward and said, satanic cults are real, and they're killing people, and they're doing all this shit.

01:13:21 Speaker_04
So this isn't a huge story that shows what is actually happening, which is the idea of a satanic cult going on a murder spree is extremely fucking stupid. And it doesn't actually happen like that. Like, it just doesn't. It's not reality. It's a movie.

01:13:39 Speaker_07
And not only that, but the way that they've been positing it for years has actually created the very murder sprees that they were afraid of happening in the first place.

01:13:47 Speaker_04
Yes, and Cecilia based everything she knew about Satanism from horror films.

01:13:52 Speaker_07
And Michelle remembers in Satanic Panic Shed.

01:13:54 Speaker_04
She's just kind of recycling it back out.

01:13:56 Speaker_04
So if they were to bust this crime and go through this whole thing, kind of showing that this gigantic system of murderous satanic cults could possibly be orchestrated by this pack of fucking idiots, that maybe there's like a thing of like,

01:14:14 Speaker_04
You know, if we show everybody that these satanic cults are real, are we out of jobs?

01:14:20 Speaker_07
I mean, I think even that's too complicated.

01:14:23 Speaker_04
Yeah, I guess. I'm sure.

01:14:24 Speaker_07
If I were to take a guess, I'd say that Cecilia's police officer husband finally took her aside and said, Listen here, Missy. All right, listen. All right, all right.

01:14:34 Speaker_04
Hold on one second. I just have to get to a save point. All right, one second. I'm just in the middle of a side quest. I just have to... I hate these fucking... I hate... Don't you? I hate these things where you have to get the one guy from the other.

01:14:43 Speaker_04
You know, you have to, like, accompany the guy. Yeah, the escort quest. I hate escort quests. It's fucking crazy. Just give me one. One second.

01:14:50 Speaker_03
Start a cut scene. This game doesn't let you pause during a cut scene. I gotta see... I can't. Just hold. Hold. Give me an hour.

01:14:58 Speaker_07
Yeah, he probably he minded like Took her aside and said hey whole thing called cult things got a little too far. Yeah, knock it off Yeah, cuz we can only cover up so many murders.

01:15:08 Speaker_07
That's what my dad had to do with my mom's quilt store Too many murders The only other explanation I can think of as to why the investigation went nowhere, even after full confessions, is Cecilia really was a satanic witch werewolf this whole time.

01:15:25 Speaker_07
You're right, she is. And that the South African police really were on the satanic payroll.

01:15:31 Speaker_03
Actually, you know what, yeah, so she's right. But the occult cops, wouldn't it just prove their worth if they stopped her? No, it's the opposite.

01:15:38 Speaker_07
Yeah, it was the absolute opposite.

01:15:40 Speaker_04
It would show that the cult isn't real, that it's a bunch of idiots. Well, there is a cult, but they're calling themselves a Christian cult. It's like when they showed the guy who shot Donald Trump and who was a Republican.

01:15:52 Speaker_04
And they buried the story pretty quickly.

01:15:54 Speaker_07
But knowing what we know, corruption involving the Thin Blue Line is a far more likely scenario, especially in South Africa. Now, perhaps because Cecilia was given a stern talking to, the cult never got around to murdering Joshua Grumewald.

01:16:07 Speaker_07
And besides, he had moved away and they couldn't find him anyway.

01:16:11 Speaker_04
Wow, he just got to go on and live his life. That's nice for him. I believe it, mom! No, probably not even that. He had no idea that he was this close to being murdered.

01:16:20 Speaker_07
He had a very good idea when the occult crimes unit got a hold of him and said, hey, there's a cult that's planning to murder you. You better move. He's like, why won't they kill my mom?

01:16:30 Speaker_07
Well, partly it might be because Rhea Grunewald finally gave up her own personal crusade. After trying to work with the police to take down Cecilia and get in nowhere, Rhea ran away to another town and started a new life under a new name.

01:16:44 Speaker_07
And understandably, her family never spoke to her again. Tria!

01:16:48 Speaker_05
Leah!

01:16:53 Speaker_07
And so, with no enemy to focus upon, and therefore no more murders to order, Electus Pradaeus basically did nothing except smoke meth and meet up to jabber at each other for hours on end for the next two years.

01:17:06 Speaker_07
I do have to remember that it's just how much meth is involved. Yeah, and just so everyone knows, we were contacted by many former meth users.

01:17:13 Speaker_04
I'm proud. Thank you guys.

01:17:15 Speaker_07
Good work. Very proud of you for getting through that. Very proud of you. But they told us that yes, $400 a week on meth does indeed mean you're spending a lot of money on meth. You're doing a lot of meth.

01:17:23 Speaker_04
Sounds like a lot. It does. And I do think that is the secret ingredient. of this whole thing.

01:17:30 Speaker_07
Yeah. And it's even if it's a group of people. They said, like, even you get five people, $400 worth of meth, like, you can still invite another friend. Yeah. Yeah.

01:17:36 Speaker_07
But regardless, Zach eventually sold the home where Michaela was murdered and moved closer to Cecilia, while LaRue graduated high school and tried to live a normal life, even though he still lived under his mother's thumb.

01:17:48 Speaker_07
LaRue worked as a salesperson for a furniture store called House and Home during the day and spent evenings as a bartender at Cecilia's favorite bar.

01:17:56 Speaker_03
That name's redundant. House and home. It is. You don't need to call it both. Very much so.

01:18:02 Speaker_04
It's very dumb.

01:18:03 Speaker_07
But he was a bartender at the Limelight Pub and Grill.

01:18:07 Speaker_04
Well actually house is where you fuck a drifter and home is where then you go home and make love to your wife.

01:18:13 Speaker_03
A house has no electricity and you can commit many crimes there. Yeah, you can take a dump in the living room and no one says anything, but a home has like blankets.

01:18:34 Speaker_07
Zach Valentine, meanwhile, bought a new house, two BMWs, and a Mercedes-Benz. Living the life!

01:18:40 Speaker_04
How has this guy not been caught? Because he's a fucking baller, dude. He's the most confident man who's ever lived.

01:18:47 Speaker_07
Yeah, and this is all while he was still donating large sums of money to pay for the fictitious American orphans, while also paying for Cecilia's psychiatrist appointments, which must have been fucking wild.

01:18:59 Speaker_04
Or is it the opposite?

01:19:00 Speaker_01
It's going to be like, I'm really having like, it's like, I wanted to sing karaoke the other night. I was just so not feeling down on myself. And then I realized, talking to Dr. Nishnush, that I...

01:19:17 Speaker_03
I should sing whenever I want. Do you think she was actually going to the psychiatrist appointments? Yeah.

01:19:24 Speaker_04
She was just taking money, but also she was taking just... Well, I think when she wanted to.

01:19:29 Speaker_07
Yeah. And that's the thing is that she kept the orphan thing going constantly. Like, it was that whole two years, it's always like, hey, Zach, so where's the orphan payment for this month? Like, I keep those orphans alive.

01:19:40 Speaker_03
So is Cecilia also doing meth? Yeah. How is she keeping a schedule?

01:19:47 Speaker_07
It does unravel. Yeah, and there have been many functional meth heads over the years. Yeah, Johnny Depp, Mayor Dinkins, what was his name?

01:19:56 Speaker_04
That was crack.

01:19:58 Speaker_07
And it was Marion Barry.

01:19:59 Speaker_03
Marion Barry, yeah. Johnny Depp just has to be a pirate. He doesn't need anything else.

01:20:04 Speaker_07
But things started heating up again when a man named John Barnard moved in with Marinda sometime in 2014. Barnard worked at a local shop called Color Magic Printing, which was owned by a wealthy Krugersdorp couple named Peter and Joan Mayer.

01:20:20 Speaker_07
Barnard had known Cecilia since 2007, back when he was a meth dealer, and he reconnected with Cecilia in 2013 when she started burning and selling bootleg DVDs.

01:20:30 Speaker_04
Yeah, I mean, that's cool. That's hot. Yeah.

01:20:32 Speaker_07
And he soon after started sleeping with Miranda. Oh, yeah.

01:20:34 Speaker_07
Now, allegedly, Barnard had no knowledge of the four murders the cult had already committed when he was welcomed into the social circle, because he was welcomed into the social circle first before he was welcomed into the cult itself, two different things.

01:20:46 Speaker_07
Little did he know, though, that the cult was just getting started and still had seven murders to go. Yeah, dude. It's just kicking off. The rest of Electus Prudeus, meanwhile, kept going with their daily lives a little while longer.

01:21:00 Speaker_07
But everything changed when Zack got a little too confident. Hey, where do you think that confidence is going to go, dude? He quit his job as an insurance agent to start his own business called Entire Deity Trading. Yeah, man.

01:21:16 Speaker_04
Stockbroker. Yeah, where else is a meth head gonna go? Yeah, man, you're already super confident. You're laced to the tits on meth. Of course you're selling.

01:21:25 Speaker_03
You're gonna be short selling in a second. And they got a bunch of phones that they can use. Oh yeah, man. It's all never off the phone. You think he's still sleeping on the same mattress?

01:21:35 Speaker_07
I know he moved to a different house, I don't know if he did.

01:21:38 Speaker_07
Along with LaRue, Zach tried breaking into the foreign exchange, because he brought in a LaRue too, he's like, man LaRue, you gotta quit your fucking job, you gotta come work with me at Insider Daily Exchange!

01:21:47 Speaker_04
Nothing would make me happier than to play with fake money, because in a way, is not all life a game. Yes, I'm high as balls.

01:22:00 Speaker_07
But as it turned out, both of them were terrible at the job. And Zach was soon losing his client's money as well as his own. Let's just say, you know, I can't always go up.

01:22:12 Speaker_04
Stocks gotta go to sleep for a little while. It's called resting. And then they're going to get back up, get breakfast, get lunch. And that's where we're going to be at. You know what I'm saying?

01:22:22 Speaker_07
With her cash cow now running dry, Cecilia started getting anxious about money.

01:22:27 Speaker_07
So she trotted out the old orphan chestnut one more time to get her people worked up again, saying that if they didn't get more money somehow, the orphans would fall prey to Satan.

01:22:38 Speaker_03
But once they turn 18, they're on their own. Oh yeah, then they're back to God.

01:22:43 Speaker_07
By this point, the cult was down to bare bones. The only OG members left were Zach, Miranda, and her two kids, LaRue and Marcel. But in order to get the information on a good target, she needed to bring John Barnard fully into the cult.

01:22:56 Speaker_07
Now, as I said, Barnard worked for a company called Color Magic Printing, and having worked there for 19 years, he knew that the owners, Peter and Joe Meyer, were worth millions.

01:23:07 Speaker_07
And so, the Meyers became the next target of Electus Pradaeus, so they could once again, ostensibly, send money to the satanic orphans.

01:23:15 Speaker_04
It's really then, it's getting looser and looser, the reasons why.

01:23:20 Speaker_07
Now the plan at the outset was not to kill the Myers, but to simply rob them. And that sort of intimidation game was a lot easier with a gun. So Cecilia used her connections to the local brothel, Elite 24, to find an illegal arms dealer.

01:23:35 Speaker_07
Through him, Electus Perdeus bought a .38 Special, several Glocks, a .303 hunting rifle, a shotgun, and a .22 revolver.

01:23:43 Speaker_04
Jesus Christ, he really goes all out. She's one of those. She's a completist.

01:23:48 Speaker_03
It's crazy that people just believe. She's sitting there doing meth, she knows all these sex workers, buying guns, and everyone's like, you know what, she's closer to God than any of us. Yeah, it does seem.

01:23:59 Speaker_07
She really has a special relationship with Jesus Christ. Each member of the cult was able to choose their own gun, but Cecilia insisted that each one of them give their weapon a name. Miranda, for example, chose the .38 Special, named it Charlie. Cute.

01:24:13 Speaker_07
Yeah. Once the cult was armed, they began reconnaissance on the best way to rob Peter and Joan Meyer.

01:24:19 Speaker_07
Their eventual plan was to visit the Meyer home disguised as officials from the Department of Trade and Industry, because their inside man, John Barnard, had told Cecilia that the Meyers were wanting to build a water park. In South Africa.

01:24:32 Speaker_04
Okay. Yeah, alright.

01:24:34 Speaker_05
And they're like, Two words for you, my friend. Wave. Pool.

01:24:39 Speaker_04
Have you heard of it? It's also- No, I haven't. I live in South Africa. Yes, well, it's a- You know how waves are in the ocean? Yes. Now imagine smaller, controllable waves, in a way. I saw it in a magazine.

01:24:55 Speaker_03
They're also famously running out of water in South Africa. I know, I know.

01:25:00 Speaker_07
So, posing as a government official named Gloria, Mirinda cold-called the Myers to offer financing to make their insane dream of a South African water park a reality.

01:25:10 Speaker_05
Hello, I heard before our little birdie told me we're trying to build a water park.

01:25:15 Speaker_04
I've been like, my god, yes. I was trying to build a water park and all I have is this shovel.

01:25:23 Speaker_07
This call, however, was confusing to the Myers because they hadn't made their water park plans public. But maybe blinded by their own ambition, the Myers agreed to an appointment on November 19th, 2015.

01:25:35 Speaker_07
That meeting, however, had to be postponed when LaRue accidentally shot himself in the groin.

01:25:42 Speaker_04
But when the meeting was rescheduled to November 24th, it was decided that the robbery team would be comprised of Miranda, Zack, and Marcel.

01:26:09 Speaker_07
Now, Marinda was able to bullshit quite well. During the meeting on the 24th, she kept the Myers talking for 45 minutes, wherein Peter discussed his water park plans at length.

01:26:20 Speaker_04
Can you even imagine? You've got a giraffe, right? You ride a giraffe in there. And there's zebras in there. And you've got a couple parrots in there. And there's a bit of area, bin where you keep spiders in there. Sounds more like a zoo. Oh, yeah, wait!

01:26:37 Speaker_04
And we get some lions in there.

01:26:42 Speaker_03
What goes in a water park? Halfway through, Miranda's like, you know, I kind of want to build this water park. Yeah, immediately.

01:26:49 Speaker_07
This is an incredible idea. Cards on the table here. I'm actually in a cult. But. But Miranda, she actually called an audible and changed the plan from robbery to a straight-up scam.

01:27:03 Speaker_07
She called the Myers the next day and tried pulling a Nigerian prince, saying that she needed almost $60,000 to complete some paperwork and bribe government officials.

01:27:13 Speaker_07
And as soon as you give me the money, I can give you the money back and we can get this water park made. Smartly but fatally, the Myers declined the offer. Yeah.

01:27:22 Speaker_07
Now the cult really did a song and dance for this one, even going so far as to fake and print out financing paperwork. God, they work so hard.

01:27:30 Speaker_03
Just build the water pump.

01:27:33 Speaker_04
Yeah, it's like, start your dream now.

01:27:37 Speaker_07
But when a second attempt at a scam failed, Marinda called Peter and insisted they meet at his home to try and work it out. Reluctantly, Peter agreed.

01:27:47 Speaker_07
And so, at 5 p.m., Zack arrived at Peter's home with Miranda and Marcel with a plan to rob Peter and Joan Myers. See, the last time they'd been there, the cult noticed that the Myers had an empty pool.

01:28:00 Speaker_07
So, their plan was to tie up Peter and Joan and throw them in the pool while they robbed the place.

01:28:06 Speaker_03
You want to build a water park and you can't even put water in your own pool?

01:28:10 Speaker_04
That's the ironic part about it. Honestly, it's been a bit of a challenge across the board. I don't even like to drink water.

01:28:21 Speaker_07
But much to their surprise, the pool had been filled since their last visit.

01:28:26 Speaker_05
Cement! Cement to the very top!

01:28:32 Speaker_04
Now have a sidewalk. Congratulations. Once again, foiled on my way to a waterpark.

01:28:40 Speaker_07
So, the crew improvised. While Marinda made small talk, Zach looked around nervously for other options.

01:28:48 Speaker_04
Yeah, he's gonna be like, ah, what do I do? Ah, there's no water there. There's no water over there. Ah, we can't do it. We timer the roof. Should we call a realtor? Yeah, let me get a realtor on the line.

01:28:58 Speaker_07
But when it became clear that their only way forward was brute force, Miranda pulled out her revolver and told Peter and Joan to get on the ground. They complied.

01:29:07 Speaker_07
And while Marcel tied up their hands and feet with cable ties, Miranda demanded that they hand over their cash and tell them where their safe was. Peter, truthfully, told them that they didn't have a safe. And they didn't keep any cash in the house.

01:29:22 Speaker_07
You didn't do your recon correct. Yep. And the situation very quickly devolved into a full clutter. Zach pulled out a knife and asked again. And when Peter didn't have an answer because he really didn't have a safe, Zach stabbed Joan Meyer.

01:29:38 Speaker_07
Peter then started saying the Lord's Prayer because he knew, oh fuck, we're dead. Which caused Zach to stab him over and over again.

01:29:46 Speaker_04
I hate this fucking prayer.

01:29:47 Speaker_07
I hate this stupid ass prayer. Surprisingly, though, the usually bloodthirsty Mirinda asked Zack how he expected to find the safe if they killed the fucking hostages. But Zack was now deliriously homicidal.

01:29:59 Speaker_05
Yeah! Yeah!

01:30:00 Speaker_04
Tell me I'm an idiot for becoming a stuck guy! Tell him I can't move stuck!

01:30:05 Speaker_03
Fill in the pool, why don't you?

01:30:07 Speaker_07
And he started switching between the bodies, stabbing Peter, then stabbing Joan, then going back and forth again and again and again until both of them were dead. But at that moment, one of Peter's employees knocked on the door.

01:30:19 Speaker_07
Peter, unbeknownst to the cult, had asked one of his guys to join the meeting.

01:30:23 Speaker_04
But Peter's guy... He's got a couple poppies blowing on it. It's too hot. I shouldn't have stopped to get coffee.

01:30:29 Speaker_07
I wonder if I could be a lifeguard. But Peter's guy had shown up late. When there was no answer at the door, he called Peter's cell. And for some reason, of all people, Marcel answered the phone.

01:30:40 Speaker_07
This girl, who is now 18 years old, improvised and told the police that Peter and his wife were fighting and things were a bit hectic at the house, so if he wouldn't mind, it'd probably be best if he came back later.

01:30:52 Speaker_07
The employee thought it was odd that this girl that he didn't know was imparting this information. But hey man, it's my fucking boss and I don't care. I'm getting the hell out of here. He did as he was told and he went home.

01:31:05 Speaker_07
In the end though, after searching through the entire house, the cult came out of this double murder with the whopping sum of $40.30. Hard one. Needless to say, Cecilia was not happy when the crew returned to her apartment.

01:31:19 Speaker_07
Immediately, Cecilia started screaming at Zach for fucking up and killing two people for $40. It's important to note that Cecilia's police officer husband was in the apartment for all of this.

01:31:44 Speaker_04
I really wish these fucking Dark Souls games could pause, but they can't. They can't. They have to stay.

01:31:49 Speaker_07
But even though the take was minuscule, Cecilia still honored the cuts, and John Barnard got $11.50 for selling out the people who'd given him a job for almost 20 years.

01:32:00 Speaker_07
They all then went to the casino to try to make something out of their paltry sums.

01:32:04 Speaker_03
Sun City.

01:32:05 Speaker_07
Yeah, but Zack and John immediately lost their shares.

01:32:08 Speaker_04
And that's why they call it craps.

01:32:11 Speaker_07
Marcelle, however, turned her $10 into $115. So there's some small celebration to be had. But it just so happened that Cecilia needed exactly $115 to pay for medication to treat her failing kidney.

01:32:25 Speaker_04
So the money went right back to the leader.

01:32:31 Speaker_07
Now the police were again no help in solving or even investigating the murder of Peter and Joan. And it's worth noting that things have not gotten any better in South Africa. Their murder clearance rate as of today is embarrassingly low.

01:32:44 Speaker_07
It's 12 percent. So again I wouldn't be too quick to ascribe conspiracy here. That low clearance rate could be why the children of Peter and Joe Meyer hired a private investigator to solve the case. Very quickly, the P.I.

01:32:59 Speaker_07
spotted a silver BMW on CCTV footage, and that BMW was quickly traced back to Zach Valentine because he'd finally fucked up. He'd forgotten to switch the plates.

01:33:10 Speaker_07
Usually they always switch the license plates, but this time he just forgot because it was just supposed to be a robbery, wasn't supposed to be a murder. In addition, they found an envelope with Marinda Stain's fingerprints at the scene.

01:33:21 Speaker_07
And both very strong pieces of evidence were handed over to the police. Zack and Marinda were soon questioned and told the police that, yes, they had been at the Myers house the day they were murdered, absolutely.

01:33:33 Speaker_07
But there was this other couple there that were crazy.

01:33:37 Speaker_03
Yeah, they had what, a cowboy hat?

01:33:40 Speaker_04
And the other one was some kind of Asian. That's always my favorite.

01:33:46 Speaker_04
Bracken Belinda Lady riding a horse You couldn't imagine the calamity And they were waving guns and knives around like we're gonna kill them or we're building a waterpark And those guys called those fucking our words called us over there to fucking plan a waterpark

01:34:10 Speaker_07
Apparently, the cops were unaware that both of these people had been suspects in a series of brutal murders just two years before.

01:34:18 Speaker_07
The cops then called the employee who dropped by for the meeting that day, who told them about the call concerning the fabricated fight between Peter and Joan.

01:34:25 Speaker_07
Finally, Peter's son positively identified Zack and Miranda as government officials, but the police apparently didn't make a single phone call to confirm or deny the claim.

01:34:36 Speaker_07
As a result, the cops let Zack and Mirinda go, and instead focused on Peter and Joan's children as the main suspects.

01:34:43 Speaker_04
They're like, we're not there! We weren't there!

01:34:45 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:34:46 Speaker_04
I don't know, like, maybe it's a funding issue? I don't know.

01:34:50 Speaker_07
No, they have plenty of funding. And the cops are like super overwhelmed, I don't know. They just don't care, man.

01:34:56 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:34:57 Speaker_07
They just don't care. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

01:35:00 Speaker_03
When I was out there, one of the things I was told that if you're driving and a cop wants to pull you over, make sure you drive all the way to the police station before you pull over because otherwise the cop will rape you. Jesus Christ.

01:35:14 Speaker_03
That's what they told us. It's not good.

01:35:20 Speaker_07
The only thing the cops did with the cult members was schedule them for polygraphs the next month, but that also went nowhere.

01:35:27 Speaker_07
Because of this extreme, gross incompetence, five more people would die in what would be called the Appointment Murders, which is where we'll end our series on Electus Prudeus next week.

01:35:39 Speaker_03
We're doing more?

01:35:40 Speaker_04
Yeah, dude. We have a whole fucking day, it's a whole other series of murders. These guys are extremely busy.

01:35:49 Speaker_04
And the fact is, we probably spent like a lot of time building up context, but this is like, it's just hard to really like, think about where it went. The A point of this story to the Z point of this story is fucking insane.

01:36:05 Speaker_04
And I think it's partially because it is where it is, it's where it's located. It's the amount of, importance they put upon these occult crimes and all like all of this it's like it's all just feeding itself in a miraculously stupid way.

01:36:21 Speaker_07
Yeah and that's the thing is that if we hadn't spent so much time giving context you'd be sitting there right now and wondering like how did this woman get these people to commit 11 murders?

01:36:30 Speaker_07
Like you have to have the fucking insane context to really see how something like this can actually happen.

01:36:35 Speaker_03
It's 12 murders if you include the plans for a nice water park.

01:36:40 Speaker_07
Yeah, that's the thing the first South African water park what a loss to the world the ninth wonder of the world It would have been I want to go Well, thank you. Yes, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.

01:36:55 Speaker_04
Go to patreon.com slash lastbitesenlives.com to watch us slap around. Ladies and gentlemen. Go to NLP on the left for all the social medias. Ladies and gentlemen. Twitch.tv slash NLP on TV. Ladies and gentlemen. You don't want to go in there.

01:37:10 Speaker_04
Lastbitesenlives.com for all our shows, our live shows.

01:37:13 Speaker_03
We have lots of new shows.

01:37:14 Speaker_04
We got a lot of stuff.

01:37:15 Speaker_03
Press the show.

01:37:16 Speaker_04
We got Hooba Googa. So it's tonight.

01:37:20 Speaker_03
Tonight. Yeah. I'm talking about the tour, man. The new tour show. We're playing the Wilton tomorrow. We do. Yeah, we are. Yes, there are still tickets. Also, we're going to be at King's Theater in December. We are.

01:37:34 Speaker_03
And then we announced five more huge dates in 2025. Yeah, that's next week, though. Sorry, they've already been promoting it. Oh really? Yes!

01:37:43 Speaker_07
I spend a lot of time on these scripts.

01:37:46 Speaker_03
Please spend time on these scripts! I can do the promo! We're gonna be in Atlanta in January, Dallas in February, Nashville in March, Detroit in April, and Toronto in May. So come get tickets, they are available now. Cool. Nice. Hail Satan.

01:38:05 Speaker_03
Because he would never do this to you. No, even though they've tried to point their finger at him. They did try to frame him.

01:38:12 Speaker_07
Yeah. He didn't do that. I think Satan, also not real. Yeah, exactly. So, sleep on that.

01:38:21 Speaker_04
Oh yeah. Oh no, I already do.

01:38:22 Speaker_07
Did you sleep on it? That's good.

01:38:27 Speaker_04
I feel nothing about it.

01:38:29 Speaker_07
You really?

01:38:29 Speaker_04
Because I know Satan's not real.

01:38:31 Speaker_07
Yeah?

01:38:31 Speaker_04
You know who's real? You know who is real? Who? Me. Whoa, too real. Too real to be enjoyed.