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Episode: Case 306: Ina & David Steiner

Author: Casefile Presents
Duration: 00:56:08

Episode Shownotes

In 1999, Ina and David Steiner founded an online newsletter called eCommerceBytes. The couple worked hard to establish themselves as knowledgeable, trustworthy and unbiased reporters in the e-commerce industry and were well respected by their niche community. Then in 2019, eCommerceBytes received a scathing message from a Twitter user who

took issue with how Ina Steiner reported on the U.S multinational e-commerce company eBay. --- Narration – Anonymous Host Research & writing – Milly Raso Creative direction – Milly Raso Production and music – Mike Migas Music – Andrew D.B. Joslyn Sign up for Casefile Premium: Apple Premium Spotify Premium Patreon For all credits and sources, please visit https://casefilepodcast.com/case-306-ina-david-steiner

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_01
Some stories are so profound, so unimaginable, that they stay with us forever. The Unthinkable is the latest podcast from Casefile Presents, hosted by two of Australia's leading voices in true crime, Vicki Petratis and Emily Webb.

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The series delves into tales of ordinary people who have faced extraordinary, often devastating events and emerged forever changed.

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From survivors of traumatic events, to victims of relentless stalking, and even those who've confronted some of Australia's most notorious criminals, The Unthinkable explores the depths of human resilience.

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The first two episodes feature the incredible story of Louisa Hope, a woman who survived Sydney's Lint Cafe siege in 2014.

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Both episodes will be available for free on Sunday November 10 wherever you get your podcasts, with episodes dropping weekly after that. Be sure to follow The Unthinkable so you don't miss an episode.

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Stay tuned until the end of today's episode to hear the trailer. Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please contact your local crisis centre.

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For suggested phone numbers for confidential support and for a more detailed list of content warnings, please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website.

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This episode was originally released on Casefile's Patreon, Apple Premium and Spotify Premium feeds as an early bonus for our paid subscribers. These episodes are designed to be slightly shorter, allowing us to cover a broader range of cases.

00:02:04 Speaker_01
To receive these episodes early and ad-free, you can support Casefile on your preferred platform. In 1999, married couple Ina and David Steiner launched Auction Byte, an e-newsletter catering to those whose business was selling items online.

00:02:30 Speaker_01
The idea originated from the Steiners' shared interest in collecting and trading. Ina had amassed a large collection of books and, ever since childhood, her husband David had been a frequenter of yard sales, always on the lookout for antiques.

00:02:48 Speaker_01
The Steiners prided themselves on factually reporting the latest industry news and keeping readers up to date and informed on the inner workings of various online marketplaces.

00:03:00 Speaker_01
Einar did most of the writing, while David focused on the publication side of things.

00:03:07 Speaker_01
Although their newsletter began in the early days of internet commerce, it filled a niche and grew in popularity as online trading became an important tool for businesses worldwide.

00:03:20 Speaker_01
The Steiners eventually changed their publication's name to E-Commerce Bytes, and by 2019, it was a valued and reputable resource for sellers on a number of online platforms, including Craigslist, Etsy, Amazon, and eBay.

00:03:37 Speaker_01
From her home in the town of Natick, Massachusetts, Ina published daily articles such as, what is behind Amazon Prime shipping delays? And, Craigslist finally launches a mobile app, worth the wait.

00:03:53 Speaker_01
Ina also managed the e-commerce by its social media accounts, which allowed her to directly engage with her small but passionate community.

00:04:04 Speaker_01
On Thursday August 1 2019, the New York Times published an article detailing a lawsuit that US multinational e-commerce company eBay had recently filed against their direct competitor, Amazon.

00:04:19 Speaker_01
eBay was accusing Amazon of unlawfully poaching their sellers. Ina Steiner wrote about the dispute later that day in a post headlined, eBay Lawsuit Meant to Curb Seller Exodus to Amazon.

00:04:34 Speaker_01
In it, she asserted, eBay's CEO Devon Wenig has been unable to stop a decline in market sales, but trying to dissuade sellers from turning to Amazon and trying to get Amazon to stop recruiting sellers may not be the best tactic.

00:04:54 Speaker_01
Days later, on Wednesday August 7, the Ecommercebytes Twitter account received a private message from a user Ina didn't recognise. Their username was Tui Ale and their profile picture was an image of a skull surrounded by darkness.

00:05:13 Speaker_01
They asked what Aina's problem was with eBay. Based on their Twitter bio, it appeared Tui Ale was an eBay seller based in Samoa who was new to Twitter, with no post history and no followers.

00:05:29 Speaker_01
Ina suspected they were a troll, an online provocateur who typically posted offensive content behind nameless accounts to arouse an emotional response in others.

00:05:41 Speaker_01
The best way to deal with the troll was not to respond to them at all, so Ina ignored Thuy Le's message. This only fuelled their anger. They sent Ina a stream of messages that read, Hello? What the fuck? Are you there? I'm waiting. I don't like waiting.

00:06:04 Speaker_01
What the fuck? What's it going to take for you to answer me? I guess I'm going to have to get your attention another way, bitch. Ina continued to ignore Tui Ale, adhering to the old internet adage, don't feed the trolls.

00:06:47 Speaker_01
By refusing to reply, Ina hoped Tui Ale would grow bored and move on. But they didn't. They continued to message Ina, their tone growing increasingly hostile. You don't have the balls to talk to me.

00:07:05 Speaker_01
Stop hiding behind your computer screen, you fucking cunt. Still, Aina wouldn't engage.

00:07:12 Speaker_01
Then, late the following night of Thursday August 8, over the course of one hour, Aina's email inbox was flooded with more than 50 email and newsletter subscriptions that she had not signed up for.

00:07:26 Speaker_01
Some were from ideological groups she had no interest in, like the Communist Party, the Satanic Temple, and Scientology. Others featured disconcerting content relating to bondage, cadavers, and animal abuse.

00:07:43 Speaker_01
Two days later, Weiner's husband David received a bizarre and somewhat chilling email. It reported that a preserved fetal pig had been ordered online and was being sent to the Steiners' home.

00:07:58 Speaker_01
At around 4pm, a package arrived from Amazon that was addressed to Weiner. It contained a Halloween mask depicting a bloody pig face, similar to one worn by the Jigsaw Killer and his accomplices in the horror film franchise, Saw.

00:08:17 Speaker_01
15 minutes later, Ina received a notification for the E-Commerce Bytes Twitter account. It was a new private message from Tuiya Lei that read, Do I have your attention now? Ina did not seek out an explanation for Tuile's abusive behaviour.

00:08:40 Speaker_01
It seemed her online harasser knew where she lived and she didn't want to provoke them further. Ina maintained her silence, still hoping it would succeed as a deterrent. But Tuile continued to bombard her with messages like… You're a fat fuck pussy.

00:09:00 Speaker_01
David needs to put you in line, cunt. A day later, David Steiner was sent an Amazon package of his own. It contained a book titled, Grief Diaries, Surviving the Loss of a Spouse.

00:09:19 Speaker_01
2ELA sent more messages to Ina throughout the day, repeatedly demanding to know what her problem was with eBay. The truth was that Ina didn't have one.

00:09:30 Speaker_01
Sure, she had written an article about the company's lawsuit with Amazon that could be interpreted as critical, but it was hardly scathing or destructive.

00:09:41 Speaker_01
And although it wasn't the first time she'd scrutinised eBay's business practices, she afforded them the same degree of respectful critique that she gave every company she wrote about.

00:09:53 Speaker_01
Earlier that year, she had reported positively on eBay's promise to give sellers greater protection. It was bizarre to think someone would go to such lengths to punish her for holding a rather mild and inconsequential opinion.

00:10:08 Speaker_01
Ina refused to engage 2ELA in any discourse, believing the person behind the username must be unwell.

00:10:18 Speaker_01
Then on Tuesday August 13, almost a week after Tuile's harassment began, David Steiner received a voicemail from a representative at Adam & Eve, a US company that sells adult toys online.

00:10:34 Speaker_01
They were responding to David's purported interest in opening a franchise store. Neither David nor Ina had expressed any interest in such an endeavour. That same day, 2ela tweeted ecommercebytes, asking, Are you there? Why won't you answer me?

00:10:55 Speaker_01
Many families, including mine, make money to pay for food, clothes, and rent by selling on eBay. Your stupid idiot comments are pushing buyers away from eBay and hurting families. Stop it now.

00:11:15 Speaker_01
These messages only served to further confuse Ina and David. At the time, eBay was ranked in the 200s in Fortune 500, an annual list of the 500 largest US industrial corporations as measured by gross income.

00:11:33 Speaker_01
The company had a market value of over $47 billion and employed 13,000 people worldwide, It was completely unreasonable to think Aina's non-partisan commentary in her niche corner of the internet could impact such an industry powerhouse.

00:11:52 Speaker_01
Even if it did, shouldn't the contempt be directed at eBay itself? Aina was only reporting the facts. If the business was faltering, then the solution would be fixing its problems.

00:12:07 Speaker_01
Silencing INA might go some way to improving public perception of the company, but it wouldn't resolve the actual issues sellers were facing.

00:12:16 Speaker_01
Thuy Le's idiot comments remark was particularly strange as the Steiners carried themselves like respected journalists. They didn't get involved in frivolous or petty internet drama.

00:12:32 Speaker_01
The next day, the Steiners received a package from Carolina Biological Supply, a company based in North Carolina that sold science-related products. They opened it and were alarmed to discover it contained fly larvae and live spiders.

00:12:51 Speaker_01
A second package arrived that same day, this one from an insect supply company based in Kansas. It held live cockroaches. Thuy Le tweeted the couple, "'Ina, when you hurt our business, you hurt our families. People will do anything to protect family.'"

00:13:15 Speaker_01
Ina and David were rattled. With no idea who was behind the Thuy Le account, the couple began increasing their security measures.

00:13:25 Speaker_01
They installed video cameras outside their home, added some battery powered alarms, and reported the harassment to the Natick Police Department, which agreed to conduct patrols of the couple's home.

00:13:39 Speaker_01
The following day, the Steiners were mortified to learn that two of their neighbours had received packages with David's name on them that contained quote, barely legal pornography.

00:13:52 Speaker_01
Later that day, a florist dropped off an ominous funeral wreath with a card that featured Ina's name. This marked the couple's second death-themed delivery. Casefile will be back shortly.

00:14:14 Speaker_01
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By supporting our sponsors, you support Casefile to continue to deliver quality content. Meanwhile, the Steiners had noticed a black Dodge minivan with New York license plates circling their neighborhood.

00:17:41 Speaker_01
David sensed the vehicle was following him and felt certain he was going to be killed. He took note of the minivan's licence plate and reported it to police.

00:17:53 Speaker_01
Officers searched for the vehicle in their databases but nothing came up that corresponded with the information provided by the Steiners. They nevertheless put out a call on police radio to be on the lookout for the vehicle. It wasn't sighted again.

00:18:11 Speaker_01
That evening, an emergency plumber was sent to the Steiners' home. At 4.30am the following night, a black car stopped outside their house. A male driver emerged and pulled out a large leather bag which David thought contained a rifle.

00:18:31 Speaker_01
He shouted to Weiner to call the police, but it was a false alarm. The leather bag contained pizzas, $70 worth ordered on behalf of the Steiners that needed to be paid for.

00:18:46 Speaker_01
Shortly before 2pm on Sunday August 18, more than two weeks after the harassment began, the 2ELA Twitter account publicly posted Eina Steiner's personal contact details, including her residential address.

00:19:02 Speaker_01
This act is known as doxxing and is a common method of online harassment and intimidation. Three minutes later, 2ELA sent Ina a private message asking, "'You get my gifts, cunt?'

00:19:18 Speaker_01
This explicitly confirmed that the person threatening the Steiners online was the same one sending them unwanted deliveries. However, Tuia Lei had made a mistake. Doxing was against Twitter's user policy.

00:19:36 Speaker_01
The platform took down the offending posts and the Tuia Lei account was suspended, preventing its use for the time being. Yet, Tuia Lei's suspension did little to settle the Steiner's nerves.

00:19:50 Speaker_01
David now believed he was being followed by a silver or grey Toyota RAV4 GMC he went to take pictures of the vehicle with his cell phone, it drove away. David didn't notice it tailing him again.

00:20:07 Speaker_01
Police took the Steiner's concerns seriously and sent an undercover officer to observe the couple's house from an unmarked jeep with tinted windows. But the officer saw no suspicious activity.

00:20:24 Speaker_01
The unwanted deliveries continued, including additional pizzas to the Steiner residence and more pornography in David's name to one of their neighbours. On Tuesday August 20, the police were called to the Steiner's home yet again.

00:20:41 Speaker_01
The couple told them that multiple strangers had shown up at their house in response to an advertisement for a week-long garage sale posted on yardsalesearch.com.

00:20:53 Speaker_01
The listing, which featured the Steiner's home address, included the message, We are moving out of the country soon and are trying to get rid of as many of our possessions as possible. If we are not outside, feel free to knock on the door.

00:21:09 Speaker_01
Maybe we can make a deal if you see something you like. These weren't the only uninvited guests the Steiners received.

00:21:20 Speaker_01
A post titled, Block Party in Nadick, let's have some fun, had been uploaded on the classified advertisements website Craigslist, alongside their address.

00:21:32 Speaker_01
Hey, we are some fun locals hosting guests for an open house while the owners are out of town for the next week, the post claimed. Come knock on the door, ring the doorbell any time of day or night.

00:21:45 Speaker_01
Block parties will start about 10pm, but will go late. singles, couples, swingers, okay. College students are welcome." Several other Craigslist posts also encouraged people to visit the Steiners' home.

00:22:03 Speaker_01
One referred to the Steiners as, mature professionals looking to have some fun at home and asked specifically for, singles or other couples open to exploring threesomes, BDSM and cross-dressing.

00:22:23 Speaker_01
On Wednesday August 21, Ina Steiner received a comment on Twitter from a new account named AlayTui. The username was an inversion of the TuiAlay account and Ina immediately suspected it was the same person trying to bypass their Twitter suspension.

00:22:43 Speaker_01
Her suspicions were confirmed when she read AlayTui's message, "'Nice try, Ina. You can't shut me down.'

00:22:52 Speaker_01
Ale Tui sent Anna the same vulgar and insulting accusations centred around the misguided belief that she was trying to irreparably damage eBay's reputation. Worse still, other anonymous Twitter users came forward to support Ale Tui. One wrote,

00:23:11 Speaker_01
Years of lies and destroying families. Don't be proud of that, you worthless bitch. I will destroy your family and business too. See how you like it." The same user tagged a Le Tui's account, asking, When are we going to visit her in Nadic?

00:23:32 Speaker_01
Another user replied, I agree. Ina is hurting small businesses with all the negativity and pushing buyers to Amazon.

00:23:43 Speaker_01
A third user with a disturbing image of a pig's head as their profile picture added, "'Ina, focus on something else and stop fucking with our customers. I don't want to see another fucking post about eBay. Leave our business alone.'"

00:24:01 Speaker_01
This same user wrote to Ale Tui directly, asking, "'What's Ina's address again? Guess I have to pay her a visit.' Alei Tui replied with the Steiner's home address, resulting in a suspension for doxing.

00:24:19 Speaker_01
The other accounts were new, had few to no followers, and wrote in a similar way to Alei Tui, indicating they were all run by the same person, but Aina couldn't be sure.

00:24:34 Speaker_01
There was also the possibility that they were other trolls attracted to Alei Tui's drama while being unconnected to it.

00:24:42 Speaker_01
However, one of the accounts featured the name of a prominent eBay seller, leading Ina to question whether she had in fact drawn the community's ire. Whatever the case, Ina and David Steiner were so profoundly terrorised they were unable to rest.

00:25:03 Speaker_01
Both were riddled with stress and anxiety that manifested in physical symptoms. They couldn't go out in public without worrying that they were being followed. Concerned about identity theft, fraud and financial harm, they froze all their accounts.

00:25:20 Speaker_01
The hard-earned reputation of e-commerce bytes was being destroyed before their eyes. The Steiners could do little else but bunker down at home.

00:25:32 Speaker_01
They cancelled countless visits with friends and family out of fear they would expose their loved ones to the stalking campaign.

00:25:40 Speaker_01
Ina and David decided to sleep in separate bedrooms so that if there was a home invasion and one of them was attacked, the other could escape and call for help.

00:25:52 Speaker_01
David stayed at the front of the house in the main bedroom where he constantly watched a live feed of the property's security cameras. Ina was in a spare bedroom at the rear.

00:26:04 Speaker_01
The couple had set up a homemade booby trap against the back door consisting of baking trays stacked on top of a laundry cart. If anyone tried to break in through the back at night, Ina would hear them.

00:26:18 Speaker_01
The couple were paralysed by constant fear of what would happen next. They felt a sense of dread with every knock at the door, terrified that a killer had finally arrived to follow through on their threats.

00:26:33 Speaker_01
Meanwhile, the Nadick Police Department was actively investigating the harassment. They had a few tenuous leads, with the most significant coming from David Steiner,

00:26:46 Speaker_01
had managed to snap a photo of the licence plate of a grey-coloured Toyota RAV4 GMC he suspected was following him. The vehicle belonged to a car rental company called Enterprise.

00:27:00 Speaker_01
Their records showed that at the time David believed he was being stalked by the vehicle, it had been leased to a woman named Veronica Zay. This wasn't the only connection investigators made to Veronica.

00:27:15 Speaker_01
Some of the items sent to the Steiners were bought using prepaid debit cards and gift cards purchased in the Californian city of Santa Clara, where Veronica resided. Store CCTV had recorded Veronica buying the cards.

00:27:33 Speaker_01
Police uncovered that Veronica Zay had a recent booking at a Ritz-Carlton luxury hotel in Boston, a 30 minute drive from the Steiners' home in Nadick,

00:27:44 Speaker_01
Steiners confirmed that they had no history with Veronika, but curiously, it was discovered that she worked for eBay. Veronika Zey was first employed by eBay in 2017 when she was 23 years old.

00:28:06 Speaker_01
Despite her lack of interest in technology and having barely used eBay's website, Veronica's degree in criminology secured her a role at the company's headquarters in San Jose, California.

00:28:18 Speaker_01
Veronica worked her way up from the role of intelligence operator, a security guard type role, to intelligence analyst in the Global Security and Resiliency Division.

00:28:30 Speaker_01
It was a small, close-knit team consisting mostly of former police and security personnel, responsible for staying ahead of small and large-scale threats to the company.

00:28:41 Speaker_01
They investigated persons of interest, individuals who posed a threat to eBay and its staff and monitored them to ensure employee safety.

00:28:51 Speaker_01
It was a necessary measure, especially in the aftermath of a 2018 spree shooting at the headquarters of video sharing website YouTube. In that incident, multiple YouTube employees were injured by a woman with a personal vendetta against the company.

00:29:10 Speaker_01
As Veronica Zay had never worked an office job before, she was somewhat out of her depth and reliant on the expertise of more experienced staff members. One was her immediate supervisor, eBay's Senior Director of Safety and Security, James Boar.

00:29:28 Speaker_01
He was a firm, intimidating man who wanted employees to do what they were told without asking questions.

00:29:36 Speaker_01
One time, he found a knife left out on a barbecue grill on site and proceeded to maniacally stab a chair with it, chastising his crew that a deranged individual could have used the weapon to hurt someone.

00:29:50 Speaker_01
James was a film buff and would summon staff into a boardroom to show them scenes from movies that he deemed significant. In one scene, characters were executed to make a point.

00:30:04 Speaker_01
Another involved criminal suspects who refused to give information to police. On at least five occasions, Veronica was forced to watch a scene from a television drama in which a billionaire warned a subordinate don't try to be loyal, you just are."

00:30:24 Speaker_01
James Boar also liked the film Meet the Fockers, in which a retired CIA agent speaks of a circle of trust, his term for the small group of individuals he trusted.

00:30:37 Speaker_01
James would reference the circle of trust within the workplace when talking about something he felt no one else should know. James Boar tried to foster a family-like environment in the office and told his team to call him Dad.

00:30:54 Speaker_01
For James, loyalty was paramount, but he was an unpredictable leader who kept staff on edge no matter their fealty.

00:31:03 Speaker_01
On one occasion, he had his employees' personal belongings stripped from their lockers and dumped into trash bags in order to teach them that they were not entitled to privacy at work.

00:31:19 Speaker_01
Veronica Zay was hired as a contract worker and because she hoped to one day become a full-time employee, she was cautious not to do anything that could jeopardise her goal.

00:31:30 Speaker_01
There was a high turnover rate in her office and many of the people she started out with, mostly older men, were quickly replaced by young, blonde-haired women.

00:31:42 Speaker_01
James Boar would call them his angels, in reference to the trio of fictional female detectives, Charlie's Angels, who were known for being attractive.

00:31:53 Speaker_01
Veronica didn't like James Boar's behaviour or the cult-like atmosphere of her office, but she kept her contempt to herself. She had no desire to rock the boat as staff were fired unpredictably and for any perceived indiscretion.

00:32:10 Speaker_01
Female employees were let go for not smiling at executives, chewing on pens, and singing to themselves during quiet night shifts. eBay's top brass were aware of the dysfunctional and discriminatory work culture, but didn't address it.

00:32:29 Speaker_01
The situation only worsened when a hedge fund known for being particularly ruthless bought a large stake of eBay and began demanding internal changes.

00:32:40 Speaker_01
The pressure was felt across the board, from Veronica Zay in intelligence analytics, all the way up to eBay's chief executive officer, Devin Wenig.

00:32:51 Speaker_01
The CEO was dismayed to learn that in a letter to eBay's board of directors, the hedge fund alluded to replacing him due to the company's underperformance. Casefile will be back shortly.

00:33:10 Speaker_01
Thank you for supporting us by listening to this episode's sponsors. Thank you for listening to this episode's ads. By supporting our sponsors, you support Casefile to continue to deliver quality content.

00:33:36 Speaker_01
Devin Wenig was a contentious figure in the e-commerce community for the way he oversaw eBay. Ina Steiner often named the CEO when reporting on eBay's latest business moves, good and bad, in her online newsletter, E-Commerce Bites.

00:33:53 Speaker_01
And it was because of him that her professional relationship with eBay corroded over time. In the early days of eCommerce Bytes, eBay advocated for and collaborated with the publication.

00:34:07 Speaker_01
They invited Ina and David Steiner to interview executive team members as well as other employees and contractors. Many eBay executives and employees subscribed to eCommerce Bytes, including high-level management and public relations personnel.

00:34:25 Speaker_01
But from May 2012 onwards, CEO Devin Wenig started taking issue with the Steiner's reporting on eBay and its upper management. Specifically, when they published anything that highlighted the company's or his faults.

00:34:42 Speaker_01
Aina allowed readers to leave comments on her articles and some, emboldened by online anonymity, were particularly vitriolic towards Devin Wenig.

00:34:53 Speaker_01
They referred to eBay as a corrupt organisation that offered sellers no help and burdened them with excessive fees, over-regulation, penalties, selling limits, never-ending glitches, and false customer feedback.

00:35:09 Speaker_01
Devin Wenick was called a joke, a fraud, and delusional, with some asserting that he should have been fired years earlier. This led to an overall attitude shift towards e-commerce bites at eBay.

00:35:24 Speaker_01
They once accused the publication of being a phishing site, a means used by cyber criminals to trick people into giving up personal information. eBay later admitted this accusation was an error and retracted its report.

00:35:40 Speaker_01
But the admission didn't ease tensions. Criticisms of the Steiners and their publication began appearing in the comment sections of their own articles. The accounts responsible also attacked other legitimate readers who came to the couple's defence.

00:35:59 Speaker_01
The problematic accounts were traced to IP addresses associated with eBay. It was clear eBay employees were creating fake online identities to attack the Steiners.

00:36:15 Speaker_01
In April 2019, Ina wrote an article about how Devin Wenig made 152 times the average salary of his employees.

00:36:25 Speaker_01
Irritated, Devin texted his colleague, eBay's Senior Vice President and Chief of Communications Officer, Steve Weimer, who shared his frustrations.

00:36:36 Speaker_01
They believed that Ina Steiner was purposefully getting people worked up due to the way she skewed her stories. Devon told Steve that they were going to crush her.

00:36:50 Speaker_01
The two men reached out to eBay's Global Security and Resiliency Division, specifically to team leader James Boar. In turn, he informed Veronica Zay and another analyst, Stephanie Stockwell, of the situation.

00:37:07 Speaker_01
The two women were instructed to screenshot e-commerce by its newsletters and forward them to James Boar via WhatsApp, an encrypted messaging app, on a real-time basis, day or night, any day of the week.

00:37:21 Speaker_01
This was to keep executive leadership up to date on an immediate basis. In the meantime, Devin Wenick and Steve Weimer hired a consultant firm. They produced a report titled,

00:37:36 Speaker_01
Next steps, alternative digital methods for reducing impact of Einar Steiner and David Steiner and e-commerce bytes. The report outlined actionable strategies that would drive the Steiner's articles lower in search engine results.

00:37:58 Speaker_01
One regular commenter on e-commerce bytes went by the username Fido Master. They were a resident troll known for stirring up drama. Fido Master posted under various other usernames, with their Unsuck eBay account named for their biggest gripe.

00:38:18 Speaker_01
Their dislike of the company spilled beyond the ecommercebytes comment section onto Twitter, where they harassed the business directly

00:38:27 Speaker_01
Sometimes, Fido Master impersonated official eBay communications by using a distorted version of the company's logo. They also provided parody answers to customer questions directed at eBay's official Twitter account.

00:38:43 Speaker_01
In an Ecommerce Bytes article posted in May 2019, Ina Steiner wrote about how eBay had built an expensive replica of a popular Manhattan bar called Walker's at their headquarters in California.

00:38:58 Speaker_01
Quote, It's probably news to sellers and shareholders that eBay has a pub-like lounge on campus, especially one built with what appears to be no expenses spared.

00:39:12 Speaker_01
This news drew the ire of Fido Master, who tweeted a link to the article with a message calling the bar a self-indulgent vanity project that was a throwback to internet and gaming company CEOs lavish overspending on legacy facilities and landmarks.

00:39:30 Speaker_01
Fido Master called out CEO Devin Wenig by name, criticising him for undertaking the project while eBay was experiencing cost reduction, layoffs, and scrutiny by activist investors.

00:39:45 Speaker_01
Even though Fido Master's tweets about eBay only amassed a dozen or so likes, the company's security division kept a large file on the unknown identity.

00:39:56 Speaker_01
James Boar and two other senior members of the security division named Brian Gilbert and David Harville suspected that Fido Master was either in cahoots with the Steiners or a sock puppet account, a false online identity used for deceptive purposes.

00:40:14 Speaker_01
They figured if Fido Master was a sock puppet, then Ina and David Steiner were behind it. Devon Wenig and Steve Wymer were fed up.

00:40:28 Speaker_01
In one email, Steve claimed that the Steiner's website gave him ulcers, harmed employee morale, and trickled into everything about their brand. He wrote, I genuinely believe these people are acting out of malice and someone chose to let this slide.

00:40:47 Speaker_01
has grown to a point that is absolutely unacceptable. It's the blind eye toward graffiti that turns into mayhem syndrome, and I'm sick about it." Steve, as well as Devon, wanted the Steiners silenced.

00:41:05 Speaker_01
The men granted the security division carte blanche to take down the Steiners. Whatever it takes, Steve Wymer asserted in an email.

00:41:15 Speaker_01
He promised to manage any bad fallout and made it clear that the security team would receive support and backing from the executive leadership at eBay, regardless of the volatility or force used against the Steiners.

00:41:31 Speaker_01
They didn't care that Ina was merely exercising her First Amendment right to report on eBay, as she had done for years without issue.

00:41:40 Speaker_01
At no point did she fabricate information about the company, attack them unfairly, or discourage her readers from using their services. Her publication was highly regarded within the e-commerce community for providing balanced reporting.

00:41:57 Speaker_01
Ina herself had gained considerable goodwill and recognition for her vast knowledge and was a widely cited authority on marketplace selling.

00:42:07 Speaker_01
Still, for her critics at eBay, taking down INA would send a message to all journalists that negative reporting of their company would not be tolerated.

00:42:20 Speaker_01
On Saturday June 8 2019, senior eBay security division team member Brian Gilbert flew across the country to Boston He then drove to the Steiner's home in Nadick and scrawled the word Fido Master on the couple's front fence, to no effect.

00:42:39 Speaker_01
Then, acting at the direction of Senior Director of Safety and Security, James Boar, Brian began reconnaissance into the Steiner's lives. He attended a yard sale at the couple's home, falsely posing as a potential buyer to gain intelligence.

00:42:57 Speaker_01
He then returned to eBay headquarters in California to help devise a plan to stop the Steiners once and for all. The security team's plan was dubbed the White Knight Strategy, a white knight being a term for someone who comes to another's aid.

00:43:18 Speaker_01
Basically, they would secretly harass the Steiners until the couple feared for their lives. Then they would offer eBay's assistance to help stop the attacks.

00:43:30 Speaker_01
They believed this would win the Steiner's favour and to deter them from covering eBay unfavourably in the future. It all began on Thursday August 1 2019, after Ina Steiner posted her article on eBay's lawsuit against Amazon.

00:43:49 Speaker_01
In it, she mentioned comments made by CEO Devin Wenig, adding that he seemingly lacked appreciation for sellers' desire to diversify selling channels. The comments section was flooded with messages critical of eBay.

00:44:05 Speaker_01
One commenter asked, how about instead of trying to sue Amazon, you just make eBay a better place for sellers?

00:44:15 Speaker_01
After seeing the feedback from the article, eBay VP Steve Weimer texted security head James Boar saying, "'Ina' is out with a hot piece on the litigation. If we are ever going to take her down, now is the time. Hatred is a sin. I am very sinful.

00:44:35 Speaker_01
I want her done. "'Ina' is a biased troll who needs to get burned down. I want to see ashes. As long as it takes. Whatever it takes."

00:44:51 Speaker_01
James Boar and his team of six, including Brian Gilbert, David Harville, Stephanie Stockwell, Veronica Zay, and two other eBay security analysts named Philip Cook and Stephanie Pop, launched a series of ploys they had brainstormed together.

00:45:08 Speaker_01
Their aim was to intimidate, threaten, torture, terrorise, and ultimately silence the Steiners.

00:45:17 Speaker_01
They created the Twitter account TuiAlae and later Alaetui and other supportive sock puppet accounts to bombard the couple around the clock with frightening online messages.

00:45:29 Speaker_01
They mailed them disturbing packages and sent strangers to their house at all hours. Some travelled to Boston to stalk the couple in rented vehicles.

00:45:40 Speaker_01
They monitored Natick Police's radio communications and when they heard messages about the car they were in, they returned it and rented a new one.

00:45:50 Speaker_01
One time, they paused their surveillance upon noticing an undercover officer in an unmarked Jeep was keeping an eye on the couple's home. Another time, the Steiners reported the license plate details of a Dodge minivan the group were in.

00:46:06 Speaker_01
But the couple were off by one letter, preventing a positive ID. The eBay group plotted to put a tracking device on the Steiners' car and even practised doing so, but were thwarted by the couple parking in their garage.

00:46:23 Speaker_01
David Harville purchased tools and rubber gloves so he could break into the Steiners' garage, but the plan ultimately fell through.

00:46:33 Speaker_01
The group had other ideas that didn't come to fruition, including ordering the Steiners an exotic dancer and sending a coffin to their home.

00:46:43 Speaker_01
They covered their tracks by registering for a software development conference in Boston that they never intended to attend, giving them a reason to be in the area.

00:46:54 Speaker_01
The team also used encrypted messaging apps and email accounts, laptops with undetectable IP addresses, burner phones, and prepaid debit cards.

00:47:04 Speaker_01
They also created a dossier on the Steiners, falsely accusing them of being persons of interest for threats they made against eBay and its executive management.

00:47:16 Speaker_01
The document was to be given to police if the group was compromised, to discredit the Steiners and make them appear dangerous, thus defaming their reputations and credibility.

00:47:31 Speaker_01
After Naidic police identified Veronica Zay and discovered her connection to WeBay, they sought to interview her. But when they called Veronica's cell phone, James Boar answered,

00:47:45 Speaker_01
He lied, telling police that he was Veronica's husband and that all questions for her could be directed to him. Following the call, James drove Veronica to the airport to flee Massachusetts.

00:48:00 Speaker_01
Police then reached out to eBay directly via an email account that happened to be overseen by Brian Gilbert, one of the conspirators.

00:48:10 Speaker_01
Bryant travelled to Natick to speak with authorities in person, telling them that eBay had no involvement in the intimidation or threats perpetrated against the Steiners. He even brazenly offered eBay's assistance to investigate the matter.

00:48:27 Speaker_01
However, the conspirators were starting to suspect that the jig was up. They reconvened in a conference room at eBay's headquarters to discuss their next steps.

00:48:40 Speaker_01
James Boar ordered his team not to talk to anyone and to keep the names of CEO Devin Wenig and Senior VP Steve Weimer out of all conversations.

00:48:51 Speaker_01
Whenever police called any of the staff members for further inquiries, the conversation was put on loudspeaker so everyone could listen in and maintain a consistent story.

00:49:03 Speaker_01
Stephanie Pop posted five new tweets from one of the accounts used to harass the Steiners to give the illusion that the perpetrators were still at large. It didn't work. The entire plot was gradually exposed by Natick detectives,

00:49:24 Speaker_01
eBay terminated the seven employees involved, all of whom were charged with various conspiracy offences pertaining to cyberstalking, witness tampering and stalking.

00:49:36 Speaker_01
Some also faced charges for the attempted cover-up and obstruction of the criminal investigation. The charges carried a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release, a fine of up to $250,000 and restitution.

00:49:55 Speaker_01
All seven of the conspirators ultimately pleaded guilty and provided full admissions. Their confessions, along with a forensic examination of their communication devices, provided a detailed picture of their crimes.

00:50:10 Speaker_01
They received varying sentences, including probation, community service, fines, and upwards of 57 months prison time.

00:50:20 Speaker_01
James Boer, the ringleader who received the harshest sentence, turned to the Steiners during his hearing and said, I was 100% responsible for everything that happened on my watch. For that, I am truly sorry.

00:50:39 Speaker_01
eBay permitted CEO Devin Wenick to resign with a $57 million severance package, Senior Vice President Steve Weimer was terminated with an undisclosed severance package.

00:50:54 Speaker_01
Both men denied any direct involvement in the harassment of the Steiners and maintained they had done nothing wrong. In a statement, Steve Weimer insisted, There was no direction, no knowledge, no private understanding, no tacit approval, ever.

00:51:14 Speaker_01
I was just speaking off the cuff. Devin Wenig made similar remarks in his own statement.

00:51:24 Speaker_01
A law firm hired by eBay to investigate the harassment concluded that neither Devin Wenig or Steve Weimer directed or knew that criminal acts would follow their orders.

00:51:37 Speaker_01
An internal investigation deemed the men's messages inappropriate, but it too asserted there was no evidence the pair had authorised or had prior knowledge of the acts directed towards the Steiners.

00:51:51 Speaker_01
Both men easily slotted into leadership positions at other companies with no concerns expressed about their history at eBay.

00:52:00 Speaker_01
According to federal prosecutors, the evidence uncovered during the police investigation was insufficient to charge either man with any crimes.

00:52:14 Speaker_01
In an exclusive interview with the New York Times, Veronica Zay revealed that her participation in the scheme had a long-lasting impact on her life. When her new employer found out about it, Veronica was immediately fired.

00:52:29 Speaker_01
struggled to find another job and had to move back in with her parents. She said that she hadn't enjoyed harassing the Steinitz and she'd often call her mother in tears about her own actions.

00:52:42 Speaker_01
Despite this, the pressure, manipulation and toxic environment at eBay compelled her to continue doing something that she knew was wrong. Quote, It's easy to say why didn't I leave, but in the moment I was terrified and stuck. I am so sorry.

00:53:03 Speaker_01
I regret playing even a small role here. If I could go back in time and prevent the Steiners from experiencing this in any way, I would do so in a heartbeat. I don't know when I'll ever trust an employer again, or when an employer will ever trust me.

00:53:24 Speaker_01
New York Times also tracked down the person behind the online account Fido Master, whose trolling had led, in part, to the Steiners' ordeal.

00:53:35 Speaker_01
Some of the offenders had thought the Steiners themselves were behind the account, despite there being no evidence to support this. It turned out that Fido Master wasn't connected to the couple in any way,

00:53:49 Speaker_01
His wife was an eBay seller and he just wanted to vent online about the issues he had with the company. He clarified that he had never conspired with the Steiners to damage eBay's reputation.

00:54:05 Speaker_01
As a direct result of their former employee's actions, eBay had to pay a $3 million fine.

00:54:12 Speaker_01
They have also since apologised to the Steiners and according to their new CEO, Jamie Iannone, the company has, "...strengthened its policies, procedures, controls and training, while remaining committed to upholding high standards of conduct and ethics."

00:54:32 Speaker_01
In 2021, the Steiners filed a lawsuit against eBay, the seven defendants in the criminal case, and several other relevant parties, including Devin Wenig and Steve Weimer.

00:54:45 Speaker_01
Although the two former eBay VIPs had denied involvement in or knowledge of the crimes committed against the Steiners, the couple suspected this wasn't entirely true.

00:54:57 Speaker_01
Forensic copies of Steve Wymer's personal and company cell phones showed that communications from August 2019 were missing, leading authorities to believe they were deleted.

00:55:10 Speaker_01
However, records recovered from other participants' devices showed that multiple text messages and emails were sent to Steve Wymer informing him about some of their activities.

00:55:23 Speaker_01
When one conspirator emailed Steve to tell him the police were investigating eBay, Steve replied, please do not do anything until I can check a few things. I don't want us to engage.

00:55:37 Speaker_01
The Steiners believed that Steve Weimer at least should have been indicted for obstructing justice, destroying evidence and misleading an investigation. Their attorney stated,

00:55:50 Speaker_01
I think the federal government is taking the position that they didn't have enough evidence to indict Weimer and other executives. Our position is that you can't find the evidence you're not looking for. They just weren't looking.

00:56:08 Speaker_01
The civil proceedings are still underway as of June 2024. As a result of the harassment, Iona and David suffered permanent psychological trauma and significant economic damage.

00:56:23 Speaker_01
Despite this, the Steiners continue to publish e-commerce bites and still report on news pertaining to eBay.

00:56:30 Speaker_01
While they never made any public statements in the aftermath of the harassment, Einar wrote a number of articles on the case, maintaining her trademark fact-based and unbiased reporting, with no personal opinions provided.

00:57:05 Speaker_00
I can hear the explosions, I didn't know what was happening.

00:57:07 Speaker_05
I'm Vicky Petradis. And I'm Emily Webb. We are true crime authors and podcasters with a long history of interviewing people who've experienced unthinkable events.

00:57:19 Speaker_04
The next guy had this Molotov cocktail in his hand and I just saw him lighting it.

00:57:24 Speaker_06
Are you listening? Pay attention. We're at Link Cafe. A gentleman has taken us hostage. He's got a gun and he's got a bomb.

00:57:32 Speaker_02
But he turned towards me and he had this demonic look on his face and just came at me.

00:57:38 Speaker_05
These stories will have you on the edge of your seats.

00:57:41 Speaker_03
My shield man wasn't there anymore. It was me by myself. I had no protection.

00:57:45 Speaker_06
We are going to die now. Who could get out of that situation?

00:57:49 Speaker_00
I can hear explosions, I didn't know what was happening. It's just a matter of self-preservation, get myself out of there.

00:57:54 Speaker_05
We get to ask questions that most would never ask. And because of that, we get told things most would never hear about.

00:58:02 Speaker_02
And I couldn't get my gun out. I'm sort of fighting with him. He's stabbing me.

00:58:07 Speaker_06
Maybe he just hit his head on the ground when he went down. Maybe he's OK.

00:58:11 Speaker_03
I saw that she wasn't in a very good way. Yeah, this will be difficult for me to talk about.

00:58:15 Speaker_06
What draws us to these stories is the strength of the people coming out the other side of what they've been through. But it was eight years before I processed what happened in the siege.

00:58:27 Speaker_04
There is a way. It's not going to be easy. You might have pitfalls, but you've got to keep going. I'm not going to let it beat me or define me.

00:58:36 Speaker_05
So even though these are stories of the unthinkable, they are also stories of hope.

00:58:42 Speaker_02
You've got to be the best for you first before you can be the best for someone else.

00:58:46 Speaker_06
The Unthinkable is available now. Be sure to download and follow The Unthinkable wherever you get your podcasts.