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Episode: Bridget Everett Says a Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love

Author: The New York Times
Duration: 00:37:30

Episode Shownotes

Stories of romantic love are everywhere, but the actor, singer and comedian Bridget Everett says great friendships deserve our time and attention, too. Not just onscreen, but in reality.On the HBO Original series “Somebody Somewhere” (now in its third and final season), Everett stars as Sam, a character inspired by

the actor’s own life. She tells Anna about how heartbreaking, hilarious and central platonic friendship is in the fictional world of the show, and in Everett’s own relationships.Everett also reads a Modern Love essay called “When Your Greatest Romance Is a Friendship,” by the novelist Victor Lodato. Lodato was in his 40s when he accidentally found his “person,” and became the platonic life partner of an artist in her 80s who lived across the street.“Somebody Somewhere” is now streaming on Max.In April 2024, Lodato published “Honey,” a novel inspired by Austin Brayfield, the friend he wrote about in his essay.Want to leave us a voice mail message on the Modern Love hotline? Call (212) 589-8962‬, and please include your name, hometown and a callback number.How to submit a Modern Love Essay to The New York TimesHow to submit a Tiny Love Story Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Summary

In this episode, Bridget Everett discusses the significance of deep friendships alongside romantic love, particularly through her role as Sam in HBO's 'Somebody Somewhere.' She emphasizes the profound bond between Sam and Joel, which transcends typical romantic expectations, showcasing the emotional support found in platonic relationships. Everett's reflections draw parallels to Victor Lodato's Modern Love essay, 'When Your Greatest Romance Is a Friendship,' highlighting how meaningful connections can shape our lives. The episode ultimately underscores that platonic love can be as impactful as romantic ties.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Bridget Everett Says a Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_00
love now and love stronger than anything and I love you more than anything.

00:00:15 Speaker_01
From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Every week, we bring you stories and conversations inspired by the Modern Love column. We talk about lovers, families, friends, and all the messiness of human relationships.

00:00:29 Speaker_01
Today, I talk to the actor, singer, and comedian, Bridget Everett. On the Peabody Award-winning HBO series, Somebody Somewhere, now in its third and final season, Bridget stars as a 40-something woman named Sam.

00:00:44 Speaker_01
Sam has always loved to sing, but over time she's lost her self-confidence and she's given up on music entirely. It's only after Sam becomes best friends with a sweet, supportive man named Joel that she starts to build herself back up.

00:00:58 Speaker_01
He even pushes her to sing again.

00:01:00 Speaker_00
— One of my favorite singers in the entire world is here with us tonight. Sam Pyre, come on up here.

00:01:07 Speaker_02
— No!

00:01:16 Speaker_01
— The two of them become so close, they even call each other from the toilet, after eating a questionable hors d'oeuvre called St. Louis Sushi.

00:01:31 Speaker_02
This is a new level of intimacy

00:01:42 Speaker_01
To watch somebody somewhere is to fall in love with these two friends and to hope that nothing gets in the way of what they share together.

00:01:49 Speaker_01
So I wanted to talk to Bridget about how central a best friendship can be if we're willing to make the space for it in our lives. And Bridget reads an essay about two friends with a bond so close, maybe we need a new word to define it.

00:02:06 Speaker_01
Bridget Everett, welcome to Modern Love. Hi. I'm so happy you're in the studio with us. So the show you star on, Somebody Somewhere, is currently on its third and final season. I love this show, but I'm really struggling with something.

00:02:19 Speaker_01
I hope you'll help me out. I find it tough to categorize the show in terms of genre. I'm like, I want to call it a romantic comedy, but it's also sort of like an ensemble slice of life. At times it's a musical. How would you describe the show?

00:02:34 Speaker_02
Well, I have a terrible time describing it too, so maybe that's why we have such an intimate audience. I don't know. I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life, some tender moments, some you know and maybe a fart.

00:02:49 Speaker_01
I was gonna say some tender moments and then like a big diarrhea scene in season two.

00:02:53 Speaker_02
Yeah because that's real life. Of course it's real life. I mean maybe not for you but for you know people I know.

00:02:58 Speaker_01
St. Louis sushi.

00:02:59 Speaker_02
Is that a real thing? Yeah my friend Larry Crone it's one of his signature dishes at parties you know he always passes around his little canapé or whatever but it's basically ham wrapped around cream cheese wrapped around a pickle.

00:03:11 Speaker_02
And you know it's always a hit. No it sounds so good is the thing. Yeah but you know on the show we had to kind of make it fun.

00:03:18 Speaker_01
You had to make it fun. You had to fill it with a lot of farts. Okay your character on Somebody Somewhere is a woman named Sam who is somewhat inspired by your own life. Like you, Sam grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, where the show takes place.

00:03:33 Speaker_01
Sam loves singing, but she has a lot of fear and self-doubt around it. Whereas you, Bridget, have a cabaret song where you proudly describe all the shapes and sizes boobs come in. I love that song. You just seem fearless on stage.

00:03:51 Speaker_01
Have you ever had any of Sam's self-doubt in your own life?

00:03:55 Speaker_02
Oh, sure. I mean, a lot of... A lot of what I have in common with Sam is obviously the love of singing, and Sam really comes alive when she sings, and I feel the same way. I feel like I connect, I kind of plug into life when I'm singing.

00:04:08 Speaker_02
There's a way that I can connect to my emotions when I'm doing that that I can't sometimes do otherwise. And I also struggle with self-worth like she does. So over the course of these three seasons, as she is

00:04:22 Speaker_02
acknowledge kind of to herself what she's working through. I mean, she doesn't say, oh, I'm Sam and I have self-doubt. You know, we sort of see her trying to push through some of that. And I've learned a lot from her.

00:04:33 Speaker_02
Like sometimes we write the scenes and I'm like, man, I wish I could be like Sam.

00:04:36 Speaker_01
SONIA DARA Have you ever applied? I mean, I know it's like loosely autobiographical, but of course the show is a work of fiction. But you're saying that you've learned things from Sam. Have you ever found yourself

00:04:46 Speaker_01
quite literally applying, like, a lesson that she's learned in the show to your own life? Like, do you ever do something in your own life and think, wow, I learned this from Sam, my character in Somebody, Somewhere?

00:04:55 Speaker_02
Absolutely. There's something that Sam says in season two. She's like, NNP, no new people. Yes. And that's kind of like me. I have a lot of friends. My life is full enough. And I just, I'm socially anxious, you know, like many people are.

00:05:08 Speaker_02
So I just like, I just rather not. But Sam, especially in season three, is allowing more people into her life and into her heart. And I think that I have honestly been trying to work on that myself. Interesting.

00:05:23 Speaker_01
Okay, so what you're saying is in season two, Sam kind of adopts this, yeah, life ethos, I don't know, mantra, no new people meaning no new friends. But then in season three, we see her sort of open back up again.

00:05:34 Speaker_01
And you're saying that you're trying to do the same thing in your life right now?

00:05:37 Speaker_02
Because I think for me and for Sam, it's like, if you're somebody that does struggle with self-worth, every time you meet somebody, you're like, they're gonna see the cracks. Or that they'll just see what I don't like about myself.

00:05:49 Speaker_02
And I think Sam feels that way, so she's like, I've got this person that makes me feel good, this person makes me feel safe. And that was why it was so devastating in season one, why her sister died, because her sister loved her warts and all.

00:06:02 Speaker_02
And Joel, he loves her warts and all. And, you know, I think it's just something that... not everybody walks into a room and thinks people are going to like them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:16 Speaker_01
Maybe most people don't. I really don't know. I don't think most people do. I certainly don't. But you're so right. In season three, this current season of Somebody, Somewhere, we see that sort of protective shield start to crack in the best way.

00:06:28 Speaker_02
Yeah. And she's terrified, but she does it anyway, which is the theme of the season is growth against all odds. And I think that that is... I love that. Is that something you said in the writer's room? Growth Against All Odds? It is.

00:06:40 Speaker_02
And I do have the necklace now. And I'm not wearing it right now.

00:06:42 Speaker_01
Wait, stop! You should have worn... Wait, is it a necklace that says Growth Against All Odds?

00:06:46 Speaker_02
No, it's G-A-A-O. I have on one necklace. I also have a golden toilet, which is obviously from season two. And then from season one, I have a one because I'm number one on the call sheet. And I was like, this may never happen again.

00:06:55 Speaker_02
So I'm buying myself a necklace. I am so sad that you didn't wear all three. I know, I normally do, but I don't know why I didn't do it today. I got my day started kind of early.

00:07:06 Speaker_01
You got a lot of things going on. I also want to say I love it. There's a lot of acronyms. I'm realizing no new people, NNP.

00:07:13 Speaker_02
There's AGG, there's all glory to God, which is something that kind of goes by pretty quick, but I talk that way. You're an acronym gal? DDHD is my theme, you know, got that from LL Cool J, dreams don't have deadlines.

00:07:26 Speaker_01
And this is such a fun thing to figure out about you.

00:07:28 Speaker_02
Murray Hill and I text each other every day, RFB, ready for bed.

00:07:31 Speaker_01
Murray Hill also stars on the show as Fred. I love ready for bed. RFB. You've talked a bit about the relationship between Sam and her best friend Joel, played by Jeff Hiller.

00:07:43 Speaker_01
For people who have not had the pleasure of seeing somebody somewhere, how would you explain who Sam and Joel are to each other? It's a friendship, but there's so much more there.

00:07:53 Speaker_02
Yeah, I think, you know, Sam has lost her sister, and it was everything to her, and then Joel kind of sneaks in, and he's so undeniable, he's so charismatic and charming, and he's got a... The smile just lights everyone up.

00:08:06 Speaker_02
Yeah, and he's got a great giggle, and... And he's kind and she's kind of like, you know, got a little more of an edge. But most importantly, there's a really wonderful, warm chemistry between the two of them.

00:08:18 Speaker_02
And even when she kind of gets reactive or reactionary, he still loves her. He's not going to dump her, which she thinks that he's going to do. And she's so you know, she's such a raw nerve.

00:08:32 Speaker_02
And I don't know, just the way that Joel takes care of her is very moving to me. And what I love about the relationship is, you know, sometimes you don't expect that you're going to meet such a Central relationship to your life in your 40s.

00:08:49 Speaker_02
And I think that's incredible goes against the NNP no new people, but I just I just love it and I also love that it's it's a real primary thing for Sam like her friends are her people right and It's not like she's looking for a romantic love.

00:09:04 Speaker_02
She's she's looking for her person and and that's kind of what she is Finding in Joel.

00:09:10 Speaker_01
Yeah her person. I mean, I think it's a really I I don't know if I, I'll say like kind of radical reframe, the idea that your person can be a friend.

00:09:19 Speaker_02
Absolutely. And it doesn't mean that you can't have, you know, romantic relationships and you can't, you know, have a couple of rolls in the hay and a little, you know, a little smoochy smooch in the alley after a couple of drinks at a bar.

00:09:31 Speaker_02
But I think that For me, it was really important that this show be about the friendship and not about girl meets boy in the way that you meet a guy and all of a sudden he thinks you're beautiful, you fall in love in that way.

00:09:45 Speaker_02
This is a different kind of love, which is why I love the essay that we're going to be talking about later.

00:09:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, and we're going to go to the essay reading in just a bit, but before we do, I want to talk about a moment on the show that I think is the epitome of this kind of love between friends that you're talking about.

00:10:05 Speaker_01
Early in this new season, Sam helps Joel's boyfriend, whose name is Brad, write a love song as a secret surprise for Joel. And first of all, that's already a nice enough gesture from Sam, but it means even more because we've seen her

00:10:22 Speaker_01
really struggle with the fact that Joel is now in a couple and isn't around for her as much. Can you tell us what happens when they're all at the party and Brad gets up to sing this love song for Joel?

00:10:39 Speaker_02
The character of Brad played by the wonderful and underutilized Tim Bagley, the play's Joel's boyfriend, gets up to sing the song. And he loves Joel, but he hasn't really been able to or had the need to say that publicly.

00:10:54 Speaker_02
And he's doing it in front of Joel's friends and his church friends. And as soon as he starts to try to speak, he's so overwhelmed. And it reminds me of a very, it's a very Midwestern thing and probably other places too.

00:11:10 Speaker_02
But when my brother did the toast at his daughter's wedding, he was like, okay, I just want to do that. And he like, it's just like, you know, that thing like, and he couldn't talk.

00:11:22 Speaker_02
It was just like, you know, when you get that huge... The emotion is caught in the throat. Yeah, that's exactly the thing when it's too much.

00:11:29 Speaker_02
And what I love about it is that Sam is right there with him and she's like, I'm going to help you get through this because she knows what it's going to mean to Joel.

00:11:37 Speaker_01
And she jumps in and she starts singing for him.

00:11:40 Speaker_02
Yeah. She knows how special Joel is, and so anytime she can communicate that, share that, especially through music, she's going to do it.

00:11:51 Speaker_01
Bridget, would you mind, if you want, it would be amazing to hear like a line, but I don't know if you're prepared to sing today.

00:11:59 Speaker_02
Do you like the beginning of the song? I would love to. Okay, sure. I wake in the morning and I see your face. I'm the luckiest guy in the entire human race. A cup of coffee or a trip to the store, I'll take forever and then I'll take some more.

00:12:25 Speaker_02
But oh, the way you look at me, I can't explain it. But I know it's love. Oh love, love. That's the first one.

00:12:41 Speaker_03
Oh my God. Don't do this to me right now. I don't know why.

00:12:45 Speaker_01
It is so, God, and you wrote these lyrics. It is so simple and it's perfect. Of course this is a love song ostensibly for, you know, one man to another man, you know, between two men who love each other.

00:12:58 Speaker_01
But also, I don't know, like I really feel like... But it's also Sam's love for Joel. Yeah, and the way that she's looking at him. Absolutely.

00:13:05 Speaker_02
I 100% agree.

00:13:06 Speaker_01
Thank you so much for singing that. I really feel grateful to be in the room when you do that. I'm serious. Okay, that's a tough act to follow. You are also here to do us another favor, which is to read a Modern Love essay.

00:13:19 Speaker_01
Do you want to say anything about this essay before you get into it? Why you chose it?

00:13:23 Speaker_02
Well, I chose it because, you know, the title, When Your Greatest Romance Is a Friendship, because it's something that I can relate to. And I read it. I thought it was such a sweet and moving examination of two people not romantically linked.

00:13:43 Speaker_02
I don't know. I just thought it was really special.

00:13:47 Speaker_01
We'll be back in just a minute with Bridget Everett reading today's Modern Love essay. Stay with us. Okay, Bridget, you are about to read a modern love essay for us by the novelist Victor Lodato, whenever you're ready.

00:14:12 Speaker_02
When your greatest romance is a friendship. Is this your grandson? People sometimes ask Austin when she's out with me. No, honey, he's my friend.

00:14:26 Speaker_02
At this point, folks usually smile tightly and turn away, perhaps worried there is more than friendship going on between the old lady and the younger man seated at the bar, giggling like teenagers. Why we're giggling, I couldn't tell you.

00:14:41 Speaker_02
Often, our mirth seems fueled by some deep-celled delight at being together. When I met Austin, I was in my early 40s and not looking for a friend. I'd come alone to this small Oregon town to finish a book.

00:14:56 Speaker_02
So when a bony, blue-eyed stranger knocked at my door, introducing herself as the lady from across the way, and wondering if I might like to come over and see her garden, maybe have a gin and tonic, I politely declined.

00:15:09 Speaker_02
Watching her walk away, though, in her velvet slip-ons and wrinkled blouse, I felt a strange pang, a slow pin of sadness that I suppose could be best described as loneliness.

00:15:22 Speaker_02
Suddenly I was dashing into the dirt road to say that I was sorry that she had caught me in the middle of work, but that yes, I would enjoy seeing her garden. Not the gin and tonic, she said. Oh sure, that too, I answered blushing.

00:15:35 Speaker_02
And before I could suggest a visit the next week, she said, so I'll see you in a few hours then. Shall we say 4.30? I had to admire her sense of time. Next week is for someone who can afford to put things off.

00:15:48 Speaker_02
Austin, in her 80s, surely felt no such luxury. I liked your face," she admitted later, telling me she had spotted me at the mailbox. As she poured the gin, I told her that I had seen her at the mailbox as well, and I liked her face too.

00:16:05 Speaker_02
I wish I had better eyebrows, she said. They used to be fabulous. Her garden was astounding, like something dreamed rather than planted, a Mad Hatter Gothic in which a lawless grace prevailed.

00:16:19 Speaker_02
At dusk, the deer arrived, nibbling the crab apple blossoms. We had been talking for hours, slightly tipsy, and then we were in the kitchen cooking dinner.

00:16:30 Speaker_02
A retired psychologist, Austin had traveled extensively, spoke terrible Spanish and worse French, and was a painter now. She had two husbands, the second of whom died in this house, in a small bed in the living room.

00:16:45 Speaker_02
That's what I'll do, Austin told me. This room gets the best light. We turned to the windows, but the light was already gone. That we could be quiet together so soon and without strain felt auspicious.

00:17:03 Speaker_02
So you've run away from home, she said at one point. There was something about our interaction that reminded me of friendships from my childhood, in which no question was off limits. On religion, she claimed to be an atheist.

00:17:17 Speaker_02
I admitted to being haunted by the ghosts of a Roman Catholic upbringing. She said her sisters believed in hell and worried about her soul. Austin, though, seemed afraid of nothing, least of all death. I said I was still afraid of the dark.

00:17:33 Speaker_02
Living alone, she said, it can make you funny. I laughed but changed the subject, telling her I would like to see her paintings. Later, crossing the road back to my Craiglist sublet, I wondered what I was doing.

00:17:53 Speaker_02
I reminded myself of my plan, hiding out, staying in the dream of the book. I wasn't here to socialize. I could finish a draft in a few months and head back home.

00:18:03 Speaker_02
Besides, if I wanted a friend during my retreat, I would find someone my age to throw back beers with, gin and tonics with an old lady in her garden. That was not the plan.

00:18:13 Speaker_02
But there I was the next weekend having dinner with her, and then it was every weekend. Austin's older friends seemed confused. Is he helping you with a computer? One asked.

00:18:25 Speaker_02
When I first started talking about Austin to my out-of-town friends, they assumed I'd found a new boyfriend. Austin's a woman, I would say. Besides, she's in her 80s. She's just a pal.

00:18:36 Speaker_02
Even as they replied, that's cool, I could almost hear them thinking, must be slim pickings out in Oregon.

00:18:49 Speaker_02
What was perplexing, I suppose, was not that two people of such different ages had become friends, but that we had essentially become best friends.

00:18:58 Speaker_02
Others regarded our devotion as either strange or quaint, like one of those unlikely animal friendships. A monkey and a pigeon, perhaps. Admittedly, when I would spot us in a mirror, I saw how peculiar we were.

00:19:11 Speaker_02
This vivacious white-haired imp in her bright colors and chunky-style jewelry, sitting with a dark-haired man in his drab earth-toned sweaters and Clark Kent glasses. Maybe I looked like some nerdy gigolo or this woman's attentive secretary.

00:19:27 Speaker_02
If we made no sense from the outside, it didn't matter. We were mostly looking at each other. One night, Austin chatted about her life as a middle-aged wife in academia. I completely missed out on the wildness of the 60s," she said.

00:19:42 Speaker_02
I told her I'd missed out too. You weren't born yet, she said, or hardly. Often we cooked together as we had that first night, after which she would show me whatever painting she was working on.

00:19:57 Speaker_02
At her request, I also started reading to her from my book in progress. We gave each other feedback. Our work improved. When my six-month lease was up, I renewed it. The novel wasn't finished, plus I couldn't imagine a better neighbor.

00:20:17 Speaker_02
Before I knew it, three years had passed. I was writing seven days a week and spending most evenings with Austin. Sometimes she had spells of vertigo now, and when we walked together she held my arm. Often she couldn't find the right word for something.

00:20:32 Speaker_02
When she wanted to keep away visitors so she could paint, she hung a sign on her studio door, do not destroy. Soon the headaches came and more jumbled language. I need to screw my calls, she said, meaning she needed to screen them.

00:20:49 Speaker_02
We laughed, then sobered. Tests were scheduled. Now she is eight months into what the doctors say is a quick ravaging illness deep in her brain. They say there is no stopping it. A year more if she's lucky.

00:21:05 Speaker_02
Even as I refuse to believe this, I prepare for it. How? By keeping my promise to her. A few months before her diagnosis, Austin had attended a wedding. She showed me a copy of the vows, which had been distributed at the ceremony. A detailed list.

00:21:22 Speaker_02
I read it carefully at Austin's bidding. We were sitting in a car waiting for our favorite Thai restaurant to open. I never had anything like that with the men in my life," she said, pointing to the vows. We loved each other, but we didn't have that.

00:21:39 Speaker_02
She was crying now, something she rarely did. I took her hand and said, well, you have it with me. Everything but the sex. At which point, the monkey kissed the pigeon. That night, I had an odd realization.

00:21:58 Speaker_02
Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. And these friendships have been, in many ways, more mysterious than erotic love, more subtle, less selfish, more attuned to kindness. Of course, Austin was going to die long before I did.

00:22:15 Speaker_02
That's not what this is about. This, I have come to understand, is a love story. Austin continued to paint for several months more fractured, psychedelic self-portraits in scorching colors, her best work.

00:22:34 Speaker_02
Lately, though, she is tired and hardly leaves the couch. I sit with her at the opposite end, our legs intertwined. Read to me, she says. When I tell her the book is finished, she tells me to read her something new.

00:22:49 Speaker_02
But whenever I do, she promptly falls asleep. I don't leave, though. I stare out the window. Austin was right. This room does get the best light.

00:23:06 Speaker_02
Recently, her hair has thinned, but she has a shock of white up front that a friend's daughter has dyed with a streak of fuchsia. She looks like some punk girl I might have dated in high school.

00:23:18 Speaker_02
She had a bit more energy the last time I came to visit and said, Oh, Victor, I had the most wonderful dessert today. Peaches in Connecticut. Have you ever had it? No. I said, smiling. I love the idea of it. Two things that don't seem to go together.

00:23:37 Speaker_02
Monkeys and pigeons. Peaches in Connecticut. Unlikely, yes, but delicious beyond measure.

00:23:51 Speaker_01
Such a beautiful, beautiful essay. Tell me your thoughts. How did that feel to read?

00:23:59 Speaker_02
Well, I think that for me, as I mentioned before, when you read about great loves, it always seems to be about a romantic relationship. And I just I just love that these are two people that have found each other, and they're the one for each other.

00:24:28 Speaker_02
I don't know, I think what's so great about this relationship is they just sort of slip into kind of a life together. And I don't know, I want that. I'm surrounded by people in romantic relationships.

00:24:47 Speaker_02
And it's not what I'm looking for, at least not right now. And so when I see somebody that finds, first of all, it gives me hope that you can always find somebody.

00:24:57 Speaker_02
They may not look like what you think you're going to want or what you're going to need. It reminds me to stay open.

00:25:08 Speaker_02
You know, the part where they talk about sitting on the couch and their legs intertwined, it's like, to have that kind of intimacy with somebody without the expectation of a romance is... It just hits me right in my heart. I don't know.

00:25:25 Speaker_02
I'm moved and I have this new neighbor and she's great. And I can tell that she really misses the person that lived there before me. Not that she's awesome or anything like that, but I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open.

00:25:43 Speaker_02
And not running away from it, because look at the great reward. Look at the great reward between Victor and Austin. And it is a thing. It's like when all your friends are in relationships, you sort of, and you're like, nobody's emergency contact.

00:25:58 Speaker_02
You know, it can feel a little lonely. But there are other people out there that might be the same and looking for this, you know, there might be a lid for my pot. I hate that expression.

00:26:11 Speaker_02
But, you know, maybe my lid comes in the version of a lady with some comfortable slip-on shoes that's checking me out at my mailbox. Your new neighbor.

00:26:20 Speaker_01
I was going to say that the fact that you are keeping yourself open to this friendship with your neighbor lady. No, I'm trying. You're trying, but that's breaking the no new people rule. You're breaking the no new people rule.

00:26:31 Speaker_01
which is beautiful and amazing and brave and human and all of those things.

00:26:35 Speaker_02
Yeah, and I just love that, you know, that she's like, okay, 4.30. You know, like she's... She's bringing him in. And what she's saying, you know, you don't have the luxury, you know, like later is for people... Who have time. Who have time.

00:26:49 Speaker_02
And honestly, like, the amount of loss I've experienced over the last few years, it's, uh, we don't always have time, so... Yeah.

00:26:58 Speaker_01
So have the gin and tonic. Have the gin and tonic while you can. Absolutely. We'll be right back.

00:27:27 Speaker_01
You know you're speaking about this neighbor and I want to ask too like reading this essay obviously the friendship between Victor and Austin feels very similar to the or not similar but it reminds me it has resonances of the friendship between Sam your character and somebody somewhere and Joel her best friend and I wonder too like is there anyone in your real life where you read this essay and you're thinking about you know this friend?

00:27:51 Speaker_02
Um, specifically, no, I mean, there's somebody when it comes to Joel that reminds me, um, you know, I did have what I thought was this person, and then, you know, they, they, and they're still, you know, we're still very close, you know, still one of my best friends, but, you know, but I miss that, you know, because then, you know, he's in a relationship now, and it just changes.

00:28:14 Speaker_02
And Sam says that to Joel, like, it's never gonna, it's not gonna be the same. And it doesn't mean that you can't, You know, we still have a very valuable relationship, but I just think this was that. And it changed.

00:28:30 Speaker_01
And it changed. You know, it's so interesting that you said... And that's okay. Yeah, I was going to say, how did you... Yeah, of course it's okay and... It was awful when it did, but...

00:28:39 Speaker_01
It's so interesting what you're saying because as much as you're willing to share, I feel like that's something I can relate to, I think many listeners can relate to, and you said it's really freaking hard. How did you get through that?

00:28:49 Speaker_01
Like what did you tell yourself?

00:28:51 Speaker_02
I mean it took me a long time. I was really reactionary and immature and like but he And, you know, and at first they kind of disappeared together. And that's also okay. Like, I understand both sides of it.

00:29:07 Speaker_02
Like, why you want to get lost in a romantic relationship. And, you know, you think your friends are always going to be there. But I've kind of always been that person for people. I've always kind of been like, she'll be there.

00:29:18 Speaker_02
And after a while, you start to kind of, it affects you. And like, it's like, you don't want to feel like the second or third string, you know, it's just like, you can't help but feel that way.

00:29:32 Speaker_02
But I also don't think that just because somebody's in a romantic relationship, that that means that you can't be a focal, you know, a, I'm trying to think of the right word.

00:29:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, a focal point in their life. Yeah, you're just not the only one anymore.

00:29:46 Speaker_02
Yeah, and so you have to kind of acclimate and adjust and sometimes you need your friend to let you know that

00:29:56 Speaker_02
that you know they have this new wonderful romantic relationship and great and and I am I am happy for my friend and Sam is happy for Joel but like you know sometimes you need to know that you matter, you know?

00:30:13 Speaker_01
It's accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you.

00:30:17 Speaker_02
Yeah. And the truth is a lot of my friendships are like, you know, if I ask them to do something and they're like, well, let me check with, you know, so and so first. And I understand that you have a life together. Of course. But it does make

00:30:29 Speaker_02
If everybody's around is kind of like that, then you start to feel like, well, I'm just like, you know, I'm here when it's convenient for other people and it hurts.

00:30:38 Speaker_02
So seeing something like this is like, it just is, it's a dream and it gives me a lot of hope.

00:30:45 Speaker_01
I love what you said that, you know, I asked you what can you do as the friend who feels like the backup or whatever. And what you said is it's really good for them to let you know you matter.

00:30:56 Speaker_02
It's to be reminded. It feels like it's always up to the person that's unattached to kind of adapt. And you do and you should, obviously. I don't know. I'm probably being selfish, but I do not think you're being selfish at all.

00:31:13 Speaker_01
I mean, there's all these people and refresh it. Yeah, put it on. Be like, I said it. No, but I think that's so it's kind of a perfect distillation. I mean, a simple one, but I think a true one of what friendship can be.

00:31:26 Speaker_01
It's just looking someone in the eyes and saying, you matter. You matter to me. You will always matter to me. Yeah, that feels to me like that is what friendship is.

00:31:35 Speaker_02
And I think something like that happens in this season with Sam and Joel and she needs it.

00:31:42 Speaker_01
SONIA DARA Yeah. Can you describe a moment where you really felt sure that you mattered to a friend? Like was there something someone did or said where you felt that?

00:31:55 Speaker_02
JILLIAN HOCHMAN Yeah, I think my friends know that I, you know, They tell me they love me and I know they do. I know that they do. But it's also up to me to hear it. You know? And that's... What do you mean by that? Well, I mean...

00:32:22 Speaker_02
I have to be able to take it in. And it's challenging sometimes. I was just with Mary Katherine who plays Tricia, my sister on the show, and we used to be roommates and she said something to me. She's like, you know I love you, right?

00:32:38 Speaker_02
And I was like, I had a couple margarinis and I was like, don't try to unpack my feelings. me right now. But she's a great friend and she's always done a lot. My friend Zach has really invested a lot of time into making me hear it.

00:33:02 Speaker_02
And I think that's kind of the most important part that you have to let it in.

00:33:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's not easy. You know what I'm thinking too with, you know, people have expectations when we get older and we enter into romantic relationships that like friendship will become less important, right? It's just like lower down on the hierarchy.

00:33:24 Speaker_01
It's less important than, you know, your spouse or your kids or your job or whatever.

00:33:30 Speaker_02
A whole host of things.

00:33:31 Speaker_01
Right? How can we cultivate close friendships in our adulthood when there's so much else competing for our time or for our friends' time?

00:33:40 Speaker_02
I don't know. I don't know. I guess that my dream is to be central in a friend's life again. I don't know. I love all my friends. I don't want them to listen to this and think anything less than that. Well, my friends are making me a priority. It matters.

00:34:14 Speaker_02
Because it is like all those things you say, like there's just life sweeps people up and sometimes the friendships, you know, they become a backseat and it's not that way for Sam and Joel and that's what I love. I feel like it's a fantasy.

00:34:33 Speaker_01
And it's so true that it's it's so clear rather that it's it's not that way for you.

00:34:39 Speaker_01
And I think I mean not to get a bit cheesy with it but I think there are a lot of people who feel that way about friendships and I do think that somebody somewhere helps those people feel very seen.

00:34:51 Speaker_01
As you say those those stories are we have so many romantic comedies where it's you know girl meets guy or girl meets girl guy meets guy whatever but it's romantic love and the connective thing about your show is that that love story is a friendship.

00:35:07 Speaker_02
And that it is central but it's also just then how you can both go about your lives with keeping each other at the forefront, at the core.

00:35:22 Speaker_01
My final question, you near the end of this essay, Victor tells Austin that their relationship has everything but sex. And he realizes that, quote, the greatest romances of my life have been friendships.

00:35:36 Speaker_01
What do you think about the idea of using romance to describe a friendship, that word? Does it work? Do we need better words? No, I love it. I love it.

00:35:45 Speaker_02
I say that all the time. I'm like, you know, with Sam and Joel, like, they fall in love with each other. And I... It is a romance.

00:35:52 Speaker_02
It is like you can get swept off your feet by a friend and you don't have, just because, you know, there may not be the sex involved, you are in love with them in some degree.

00:36:05 Speaker_01
Bridget Everett, thank you so much. This was such a lovely and affirming conversation. I really appreciate it.

00:36:09 Speaker_02
Thank you. I appreciate you having me in.

00:36:18 Speaker_01
Don't miss Bridget Everett in season three of Somebody Somewhere, now streaming on Max. And you can find a link to Victor Lodato's essay, When Your Greatest Romance is a Friendship, in our show notes.

00:36:30 Speaker_01
Modern Love is produced by Reva Goldberg, Davis Land, Emily Lang, and Amy Pearl. It's edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Josa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell.

00:36:44 Speaker_01
Original music in this episode by Rowan Nemisto, Dan Powell, Amin Sahota, and Diane Wong. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez, with studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman.

00:36:57 Speaker_01
Special thanks to Mahima Choblani, Nel Galogli, and Jeffrey Miranda, and to our video team, Brooke Minters, Sawyer Roque, and Eddie Costas. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.

00:37:12 Speaker_01
If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.