Brains On: How Do We Learn to Read — and Why is It Hard? AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Sold a Story

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Episode: Brains On: How Do We Learn to Read — and Why is It Hard?

Author: APM Reports
Duration: 00:37:51

Episode Shownotes

This week we have an episode of a show called Brains On. It’s a science podcast for kids from our colleagues at APM. In this episode, Emily joins the Brains On hosts to talk about how people learn to read. Grab the kids in your life and listen to this

special episode made for kids and curious adults.More: brainson.orgSupport our show: Donate to APM ReportsDive deeper into Sold a Story with a multi-part email series from host Emily Hanford. We’ll also keep you up to date on new episodes. Sign up at soldastory.org/extracredit.

Summary

In this episode of Brains On, Emily Hanford explores the challenges children face when learning to read, emphasizing the emotional impact and the need for structured reading instruction. The episode highlights the importance of decoding and language comprehension as essential components of successful reading. Many children struggle with ineffective teaching methods, such as the whole-word approach, which relies on memorization rather than phonetic understanding. The discussion also covers the literacy crisis linked to these teaching methods, urging educators to adopt evidence-based instructional strategies. Throughout the episode, listeners are encouraged to seek help and understand that learning to read is a gradual process that requires perseverance.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Brains On: How Do We Learn to Read — and Why is It Hard?) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_02
Hi, this is Emily. We've got something special on the Soul to Story podcast feed. It's from our friends at Brains On. Brains On is a science podcast for kids from American public media.

00:00:16 Speaker_02
I listened to an episode they did a few years ago about kids with dyslexia. It was good. I recommend it.

00:00:23 Speaker_02
And when Solda's Story came out, I got in touch with the producers of Brains On, and I said, how about an episode for kids about how people learn to read? We heard from a bunch of kids in response to Solda's Story.

00:00:37 Speaker_02
One woman wrote about her 10-year-old nephew's response. When he listened, she said, tears rolled down his face. He realized he was a child who had been taught the poor strategies.

00:00:49 Speaker_02
We heard from kids who said listening to the podcast made them feel less alone. And we heard from adults who said the same thing. They didn't understand when they were little why they had such a hard time learning to read.

00:01:02 Speaker_02
They were ashamed, kept it a secret. But it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's not uncommon to have a hard time with reading. And as I said in Solda's story, there are very, very smart people who struggle to learn how to read.

00:01:18 Speaker_02
So grab the kids in your life, and the people who were once kids and maybe struggling to learn how to read, and listen to today's episode of Brains On.

00:01:30 Speaker_05
You're listening to Brains On, where we're serious about being curious.

00:01:34 Speaker_08
Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.

00:01:44 Speaker_06
So then I said, Kitty, that kangaroo kept that kebab all to herself. Not very kind, and it was quite a kerfuffle. Hasn't that kangaroo heard of karma?

00:01:54 Speaker_01
Oh, letter K, don't look now, but letter C is headed this way. And you're both wearing the same outfit again.

00:02:04 Speaker_06
O-M-G, this is so embarrassing. Every single alphabet party, shh, here they come. Oh, hi, letter C. Hi, letter N. Hello, letter K. Hello, letter C. Look, I wasn't gonna say anything, but you need to stop copying me.

00:02:27 Speaker_01
Okay, I'm just gonna go.

00:02:33 Speaker_06
I'm really going to need you to stop making the kuh sound. It's too confusing. Excuse me? You want me, letter K, to stop? Kuh is all I do. Put me next to an A, kuh, an I, kuh. E-O-U. And what happens when you get put next to, oh, I don't know, a letter E?

00:02:56 Speaker_06
I make a S sound. Excuse me? I couldn't hear you. I make a S sound. How about when you're next to the letter I? Fine. I make a S sound. But don't go around pretending you're all K all the time. I don't know what you're talking about.

00:03:14 Speaker_06
Well, how about we talk about your good friend, Letter N, who just scampered away. When you hang out with Letter N, you lose yourself entirely. That's right. When the two of you get together, all I hear is, nn, nn. You know what I mean? I know, I know.

00:03:33 Speaker_06
You're right. I need to stand up for myself. I can't just let letter N swallow me up. Look at me, here with my leg. Kick it out! Hey, letter C, we're always stronger when we're together. You know what K-I-C-K spells? Let's kick it together!

00:03:49 Speaker_06
I hear there are some killer cookies kept on the snack C-K cart. Ooh, and cups of kettle corn.

00:04:05 Speaker_04
You're listening to Brains On from APM Studios. I'm Molly Bloom, and I'm here with my co-host Anna from Brooklyn, New York. Hi, Anna. Hey, Molly. And today we're answering all of our listener questions about reading.

00:04:16 Speaker_04
A bunch of you have written to us wondering about it, like Isabel from Montreal.

00:04:21 Speaker_08
Why when you're little you can't read? My name is Colin.

00:04:26 Speaker_05
And my name is Katherine, and we're from Charlottesville, Virginia. Our question is, why do we read? These are great questions, but before we can answer them, we have to jump back in time to when we were babies.

00:04:39 Speaker_04
Babies are born not knowing how to do much.

00:04:42 Speaker_05
They're so cute. Big eyes, squishy legs, adorable little gummy smiles.

00:04:47 Speaker_04
They're also pretty helpless. Beyond eating, pooping, and sleeping, they can't do a lot.

00:04:54 Speaker_05
But given some time, most babies will eventually figure out how to get around on their own and how to communicate with other people just by watching the adults around them, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.

00:05:06 Speaker_04
When it comes to reading, though, most kids will not figure that out on their own.

00:05:11 Speaker_05
And that's because reading is a relatively new skill for humans.

00:05:15 Speaker_04
Right. Our brains did not evolve to do this naturally. Our early human ancestors didn't read, so there's not a part of the brain that's labeled the reading part.

00:05:25 Speaker_05
Humans are really clever, though. About 5,000 years ago, people in the Middle East came up with a system to write down the words and ideas that had been spoken for generations.

00:05:34 Speaker_04
But even after reading started, it still took a long time in history for reading and writing to catch on. It wasn't until pretty recently that reading became a normal, regular thing for most people to do. And they still have to work to learn it.

00:05:50 Speaker_04
Which brings us to our first question. What does it take to become a good reader?

00:05:55 Speaker_05
Let's clarify. There are lots of different languages out there, but we're talking today about what it takes to become a good reader of the English language.

00:06:04 Speaker_04
There are two things you need to be able to do to be a good reader. First, you need to know what words mean.

00:06:11 Speaker_05
That's called language comprehension. Comprehension is another way of saying understanding.

00:06:16 Speaker_04
Understanding what words mean is not unique to reading. You need this to be a good listener and talker too.

00:06:22 Speaker_05
And good language comprehension is something kids can pick up by talking to other people, watching TV shows, having books read to them, and listening to podcasts.

00:06:31 Speaker_04
The second part of being a good reader is being able to decode or figure out written words. And this is the tricky part. So let's break it down into steps.

00:06:40 Speaker_05
Step 1. Recognizing letters.

00:06:43 Speaker_04
Let's think about the alphabet for a second. Sometimes letters of the alphabet are made with straight lines, sometimes they're squiggly, and some of the letters look very similar to other letters.

00:06:55 Speaker_04
A lowercase b is the same as a lowercase d except backwards. Uppercase P and uppercase R are the same except R has a fancy little leg sticking out. It takes time to tell the difference between all these different shapes.

00:07:11 Speaker_05
Step two, matching letters with sounds.

00:07:14 Speaker_04
So once you can tell the difference between a B and a D. An uppercase B looks like an uppercase D wearing a belt. Oh, you are so right. So once you can tell them apart, you can understand that they make different sounds. B makes a b-b-b sound.

00:07:32 Speaker_04
And D makes a d-d-d sound. Then comes step three, sounding out words. That means you take what you've learned about the sounds letters make and put them together. So let's take the word B-A-T.

00:07:50 Speaker_05
You've learned the letter B makes a buh sound.

00:07:53 Speaker_04
A makes an ah sound. And T makes a tt sound. So you look at B-A-T and you sound it out. b-a-t, b-a-t, bat. And if you see the word c-a-t, you can do the same thing. c-a-t, c-a-t, cat. Woohoo! That's decoding.

00:08:20 Speaker_04
When you're learning to read this way, you'll start with simple words like these. Like dog or rag or fan. Right. Simple three-letter words. Then you'll start to get longer words to decode, and here's where your previous knowledge of words comes in.

00:08:37 Speaker_04
Let's say you see the word w-a-t-e-r. You might sound it out like this. W-a-t-e-r. W-a-t-e-r. Water.

00:08:53 Speaker_05
But your brain will say, water is not a word I know.

00:08:58 Speaker_04
So you'll look at that A and say, huh, OK, that A can make different sounds, not always ah. Could it be water? Yes, water. And the further you get in your decoding journey, you'll start to learn some of the very confusing combos that English uses.

00:09:19 Speaker_04
For example, what makes the fuh sound? F. Right, but you can also make the F sound by using the letters P and H together. P plus H equals F. Or, in the word laugh, which is spelled L-A-U-G-H, where is the F sound coming from?

00:09:42 Speaker_04
It's from the letters G and H. G plus H equals fuh. Unless you're spelling the word ghost, which is G-H-O-S-T, and in this case, G plus H equals guh. Guh is right.

00:09:58 Speaker_04
Learning to read English is hard, but being taught how to decode words step-by-step paired with a good knowledge of lots of words has been proven by scientists to be the best way to learn to read.

00:10:10 Speaker_05
Yeah, there's been lots and lots of research done over the years.

00:10:14 Speaker_04
They've looked at learning at every level in different languages and have compared different teaching methods, and the research shows that being able to decode words is key. You can't be a good reader without being good at decoding words.

00:10:29 Speaker_05
Scientists have also looked at what happens in your brain when you learn to read.

00:10:34 Speaker_04
At first, Your brain takes the slower route of breaking down each word into its parts. But the more you do this, and the more comfortable you get, your brain starts to do it almost automatically.

00:10:46 Speaker_05
Yeah, after a while, your brain recognizes the words so quickly that you don't need to sound them out anymore.

00:10:52 Speaker_04
By the time you're a really good reader, you actually know tens of thousands of words instantly on sight. You don't have to figure them out. You just know them in a split second. It's pretty cool. So Anna, was learning to read easy or hard for you?

00:11:10 Speaker_05
So learning to read for me was kind of confusing because I learned to read obviously in like first grade and kindergarten and I felt like I could read and that I was a strong reader but

00:11:27 Speaker_05
As I grew up, I realized that it was actually hard for me to sound out words. And that instant sight word that you were talking about, I didn't have a lot of those.

00:11:38 Speaker_05
And it would take me a long time to read because I would have to sound out each word, even words that I should know.

00:11:44 Speaker_04
Yeah. What grade were you in when you figured out like, oh, wait, maybe reading is not a thing that is easy for me to do?

00:11:49 Speaker_05
pretty early. My mom always used to make us read like 30 minutes a day and that was always really hard for me and I would always just be looking at the clock wanting it to go away because it was just so frustrating for me.

00:12:03 Speaker_05
So I didn't know necessarily that something was wrong with my reading. I just thought I didn't like to read. Got it. So do you remember being taught how to read?

00:12:14 Speaker_05
I remember a lot of it being independent, our teachers assigning us different levels and then kind of giving us books, maybe working in small groups to read these books that were placed next to pictures.

00:12:28 Speaker_05
I would say that I more learned picture and word memory than actually sounding out words. we would see a picture of a cat and then C-A-T and be told that cat equals this picture.

00:12:43 Speaker_05
So then we would, or they wanted our brains to automatically be able to recognize cat as C-A-T from picture and word recognition.

00:12:52 Speaker_04
So it's kind of like you were being taught to skip the sounding out part and kind of go right to the sight word part.

00:13:00 Speaker_05
Yes, exactly.

00:13:01 Speaker_04
Got it.

00:13:03 Speaker_05
And what grade are you in now? I'm in ninth grade, so freshman in high school.

00:13:07 Speaker_04
And when did reading become easier for you?

00:13:11 Speaker_05
Reading never really became easier. I never saw it as something that was hard necessarily. I just saw it kind of as something I didn't like. But as I, this year especially, I've realized that I actually just have trouble reading.

00:13:26 Speaker_05
It's not that I don't like it. It's that it's frustrating for me because I never really learned how to read and decode properly. So now this year, it's just reading in general, my relationship with it has became so much better.

00:13:38 Speaker_04
That is great. And you are very much not alone. It turns out that a lot of kids were not taught how to decode words, even though that's been proven to be the best way to learn to read. We're going to hear more about that in a minute.

00:13:52 Speaker_04
But first, we have something else for your ears to break down. Not a word, but a… Ready for the mystery sound, Anna? Yes. All right, here it is. Do you want to hear it again? Yes.

00:14:20 Speaker_05
What are your thoughts? I think that's the sound of pages being flipped.

00:14:27 Speaker_04
Very good guess. We'll hear it again after the credits. See if you feel the same way or you have a new guess and we'll hear the answer. So stick around.

00:14:38 Speaker_04
We're working on an episode about how creatures would evolve on other planets, so we want you to do a little dreaming with us. Imagine you find life on another planet. How would that life greet you? What would it sound like in their language to say hi?

00:14:54 Speaker_04
Would they even have a language, or would they greet you another way? Anna, if you found a living creature on another planet, how do you imagine they would say hi?

00:15:04 Speaker_05
I imagine that they would say hi in a very different way that we say hi. I think that a lot of animals that I've seen say hi to each other more by going up to each other and touching each other.

00:15:17 Speaker_05
So I imagine this new creature saying hi to another creature by going up to it, maybe wagging their tail. I love that. Maybe a big hug? Yes, maybe.

00:15:29 Speaker_04
Well, listeners, we want to hear how you imagine an alien creature would say hi. Record yourself and send it to us at brainson.org slash contact. While you're there, you can also send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.

00:15:41 Speaker_05
Like this one. My question is, how do hurricanes form?

00:15:46 Speaker_04
You can find an answer to that question on our Moment of Um podcast. It's a daily dose of facts and curiosity you can find wherever you listen to Brains On. Again, that's brainson.org slash contact.

00:15:57 Speaker_05
And keep listening. You're listening to Brains On from APM Studios. I'm Anna.

00:16:10 Speaker_04
And I'm Molly. OK, so we just heard about the best ways to learn to read according to lots and lots of research.

00:16:18 Speaker_05
I love lots and lots of research. So helpful.

00:16:21 Speaker_04
I know. So you'd think teachers would be all about these findings, that they'd be teaching everyone to read starting by learning the letters, then sounding things out and going from there.

00:16:32 Speaker_05
But that's not always what's happening. To find out more, we talked with someone who knows a lot about this.

00:16:39 Speaker_02
Hi, I'm Emily Hanford. I'm a reporter at American Public Media and a cover education. Emily made a podcast called Sold a Story.

00:16:49 Speaker_04
It's about how lots of kids were having trouble learning to read. Emily found out that these kids were being taught in a way that just wasn't working. It all started when she was talking to different parents who kept telling her the same story.

00:17:03 Speaker_02
And the story goes like this. My kid entered school and I knew something wasn't quite write, and I went to the teacher, and the teacher said, don't worry about it, it'll be fine. And a lot of cases, things weren't fine.

00:17:19 Speaker_04
Sometimes the kid seemed like they could read at first, books with simple words and lots of pictures. But as the words in the book got more complicated and the pictures went away, the kid would struggle.

00:17:31 Speaker_05
Sometimes the kid had memorized words that they'd seen lots of times before, but they couldn't figure out new words.

00:17:38 Speaker_04
Emily says many of these kids felt sad or angry or frustrated.

00:17:43 Speaker_02
And it was having an impact on their ability to learn in other subject areas like math and science and social studies. And in a lot of cases, they were starting to really not like school. They didn't want to go to school.

00:17:57 Speaker_02
They were being really resistant and it was all becoming really, really hard. She wondered what was going on.

00:18:04 Speaker_04
She couldn't figure it out until she talked to one kid in particular and something clicked.

00:18:10 Speaker_02
I was asking her what she remembered about being taught to read. And she said to me, the teacher would show me a picture of a cat and then point to the word and say, here's the word cat.

00:18:24 Speaker_02
And then if this little girl didn't know a word in a book she was trying to read, the teacher told her to guess based on the picture. And I remember her telling me that and being struck by that description.

00:18:38 Speaker_04
Emily thought it was strange that this girl was being taught to memorize each word or to guess, but not to sound out the words.

00:18:47 Speaker_04
We're going to call this approach the whole word way of reading because instead of sounding words out letter by letter, you're trying to figure out the whole word.

00:18:57 Speaker_05
As opposed to the sound it out or decoding method where you start by sounding out the letters.

00:19:02 Speaker_04
Right, and the more Emily looked into it, the more she saw that this whole-word way of teaching kids was everywhere.

00:19:10 Speaker_04
Classes all around the country were telling students to memorize a word and what it looks like, and if they didn't know a word, they should guess based on what would make sense.

00:19:21 Speaker_02
The problem is you're not going to be right that much of the time. Just guessing at a few of the words on the page can really make the whole meaning of the story seem different. Like, say you're reading a story.

00:19:35 Speaker_04
And you see a sentence full of words you don't know. So you make some guesses based on the first letters you see.

00:19:43 Speaker_05
Maybe you think the sentence says, it's dinner and a bunch of bears are invited. They're bringing plates and cups, and one of them shared the napkins.

00:19:51 Speaker_04
You'd think you're reading a story about some very polite grizzly bears.

00:20:00 Speaker_06
Oh, look, the bears are at the door.

00:20:03 Speaker_07
Oh, good. The table is ready. We'll be having duck confit, niçoise salad, and a tart of framboise for dessert. Oh, look, they brought fine china and crystal glasses. And these napkins, these napkins, are they linen? Absolutely exquisite.

00:20:26 Speaker_04
But really, the sentence didn't actually say, it's dinner, and a bunch of bears are invited. They're bringing plates and cups, and one of them shared the napkins.

00:20:37 Speaker_05
It actually said, it's dinner, and a bunch of bears are invading. They're breaking plates and cups, and one of them shredded the napkins.

00:20:50 Speaker_07
Oh no! Bears are at the door! Goodness, they're eating the duck confit in the niçoise salad.

00:20:58 Speaker_06
Oh no, not the tart framboise. That was for dessert.

00:21:01 Speaker_07
No! Oh, and they're breaking the fine china and the crystals. And they've shredded the linen napkins. Not the linen napkins. Anything but the linen napkins.

00:21:19 Speaker_04
If you were just guessing those words using the first few letters, it would be pretty easy to make this kind of mistake. After all, the words invite and invade, bringing and breaking, shared and shred, they look kind of similar at first.

00:21:36 Speaker_04
Emily says once she realized this, it started making sense why so many kids were having a tough time.

00:21:43 Speaker_05
Students could guess words if they were reading a simple book.

00:21:47 Speaker_04
But as the books got more complicated and had fewer pictures, the kids who had been reading okay before suddenly couldn't figure things out.

00:21:57 Speaker_05
So why weren't teachers seeing this? Why were they still teaching this whole-word way, especially when lots and lots of research said the decoding way was better?

00:22:07 Speaker_04
To understand that, you have to realize that for a long, long time, we had no idea how a kid learned to read. There were lots of different ideas, but we did not have strong research telling us what worked.

00:22:20 Speaker_05
The whole-word way of teaching has been around for a long time. all the way back to when public schools started, and it got really popular.

00:22:30 Speaker_04
And it made sense to a lot of teachers. In fact, Emily thinks the reason so many teachers loved the whole-word approach was because it seemed like it helped kids skip the hard part of reading, the part where you have to slowly sound out each word.

00:22:45 Speaker_02
They wanted kids to get to the good part. And the good part is being able to read a book and understand it and really enjoy it, really love it. And so I think with really good intentions, a lot of teachers wanted to help kids get to the good part.

00:23:03 Speaker_02
It seemed like it helped kids start reading whole words faster.

00:23:07 Speaker_04
So the whole-word approach was really popular in schools. And then scientists started doing more of those studies we mentioned earlier.

00:23:15 Speaker_05
And they found that sounding things out was actually a way better way to teach kids to read.

00:23:21 Speaker_04
But a lot of schools and educators were already super invested in the whole-word approach, and they didn't want to change what they thought was working.

00:23:30 Speaker_04
It wasn't until decades later, after lots and lots of research came out and books were written about this and reporters like Emily told this story, that some schools started rethinking how they taught kids to read.

00:23:43 Speaker_02
So I think things are changing. There are people in state legislatures across the country who are passing laws that are saying schools need to teach kids how to read based on all the scientific research.

00:23:59 Speaker_02
They're giving money for teachers to get training, for schools to buy new books and materials. I think it's an exciting moment.

00:24:07 Speaker_05
But a lot of kids and grownups were taught the whole weird way of reading, and they might still have a hard time reading.

00:24:13 Speaker_00
So the first thing you have to understand is you're not dumb.

00:24:16 Speaker_04
That's Kareem Weaver. He knows a lot about kids and reading.

00:24:21 Speaker_00
I know it may feel like it because everything's moving so fast around you and you're trying and you've tried hard and it's like you just can't get it. That's not it. You need to find somebody, some adult that's willing to help.

00:24:35 Speaker_04
Kareem runs a nonprofit focused on helping kids learn how to read, and he used to teach fourth and fifth grade.

00:24:41 Speaker_05
He says even if reading isn't fun for you, that's okay. But it's still an important skill to have.

00:24:48 Speaker_00
What you do with it, it's up to you. And whether you like it or not, it's up to you, but you'll be a better worker or business owner or student or husband or wife or neighbor or whatever. if you can read.

00:25:02 Speaker_00
And I want you to be able to read the job application. I want you to be able to read your paperwork. I want you to be able to read the instructions. When that sign says stop, I want you to know what it means.

00:25:11 Speaker_04
Basically, don't give up on becoming a good reader if you've had trouble. You might just need some different instruction.

00:25:18 Speaker_05
Kareem is also a parent, and he has some advice for parents who want to help.

00:25:23 Speaker_04
He recommends a book called 100 Easy Lessons, which you can find a link to in our show notes. And he says it's very important to test kids early for learning differences like dyslexia.

00:25:34 Speaker_04
That's when a person's brain can have special challenges learning to decode words. We have a whole episode about dyslexia if you want to learn more. Once Karim's daughter got tested, she was able to get help and now she's thriving.

00:25:46 Speaker_05
That sounds a lot like my story.

00:25:48 Speaker_04
Right. You mentioned earlier that you had some trouble with reading, and your mom, like Kareem, is a teacher, and she came along with you today. So we thought that maybe she would join us for this next section.

00:26:01 Speaker_03
Hi, Susie. Hi, mom. Hi, Anna. Molly, thanks so much for having me on the show today.

00:26:06 Speaker_04
Well, thank you for being here. Susie, what grade do you teach? I teach first grade. Susie and Anna, when did it finally click? Like what was happening with Anna that it wasn't that she just didn't like reading, but she was like really struggling?

00:26:19 Speaker_03
So after just kind of years, in all honesty, last year, which was the year before ninth grade, she had a reading list and she came to me and I had noticed that she wasn't reading it.

00:26:31 Speaker_03
And I was frustrated because I thought she just didn't want to read it. And what was the problem? And then she told me that she actually was having a lot of trouble reading and it was really hard for her to read the words and read the books.

00:26:45 Speaker_03
And so then I really wanted to figure out a way to help her because I realized that it was a problem and that she needed help.

00:26:52 Speaker_04
So Anna, how was that when you went to your mom this past summer? How did that feel to you?

00:26:57 Speaker_05
When I went to my mom and we agreed that I needed some sort of help to really thrive reading, I felt super relieved. I felt relieved because I thought like something was wrong with me and that I just didn't like reading and I just wasn't that smart.

00:27:15 Speaker_05
I really realized how I struggled reading in front of the class and that was always something I never wanted to do. I was always so embarrassed because sometimes kids would laugh. when I would mispronounce words.

00:27:25 Speaker_05
And I always have wanted to love reading, like my role models, like my mom, my dad, and my brother do. They always would be talking about books at dinner. And my older brother would always brag about how many pages he read.

00:27:39 Speaker_05
And I would always be like, how is that possible to read that many pages in a short amount of time? And also, how is it possible to like reading? I really realized that I did not know how to decode words at all.

00:27:53 Speaker_05
when I went over with my mom the sounds of each letter in the alphabet and I literally just did not know them. I didn't realize there was an important difference between i, the I sound, and e, the E sound.

00:28:07 Speaker_05
So when I found out that it was actually something wrong with how I sounded out words, I was so relieved and hopeful that I still had a chance to love reading and made me understand why people love reading.

00:28:17 Speaker_05
It's because they have a different experience while reading than I did.

00:28:21 Speaker_04
So Susie, I'm wondering, how is being a mom similar to being a teacher and how is it different? So like when you saw Anna struggling with reading, how does that compare with the kids in your classroom?

00:28:34 Speaker_03
I think in both cases, just with my kids and my students, I definitely think of my kids also just in the classroom.

00:28:42 Speaker_03
I want them all to reach their full potential and to believe in themselves and not think that it's something that's wrong with them if they're having trouble, but it's something that we can work together to become stronger.

00:28:59 Speaker_05
Did my struggles with reading change anything about how you teach reading to your students?

00:29:04 Speaker_03
So, it absolutely did. It really made me focus even more on decoding strategies and making sure every one of my first graders will have the skills themselves to decode any word and every word that they come across.

00:29:21 Speaker_04
And Susie, were you taught the whole word method of teaching reading?

00:29:25 Speaker_03
So, when I went to teaching school, when I went to grad school, I was much more taught the whole word or whole language way of teaching reading, where there wasn't as much emphasis on decoding or sounding the words out.

00:29:45 Speaker_03
flipped my teaching to really focus so much more on those decoding and the sounding out words. Are you seeing that flip happening with other schools and teachers? I am.

00:30:01 Speaker_03
I mean, I talk to teachers all the time at different schools and about this and sold a story I think really articulated what teachers are seeing, how different teachers have learned. And so it's really helped me just even learn.

00:30:18 Speaker_03
I think as a teacher, you're always learning more. And so for me, it's been pretty amazing and great to really learn all this information, all this research, and then transition that and put it into my teaching. That's amazing.

00:30:35 Speaker_04
I think it's really good for kids to know, too, that your teachers are learning all the time, and they're figuring out the best way to teach, and you never stop learning, even when you're a grown-up. Exactly.

00:30:48 Speaker_04
And Anna, I would love to know what you want to say to kids listening to this, because I'm sure that we have a lot of listeners who've had struggles with reading, and it might make them feel bad, like, you know, you said you felt like maybe you just weren't smart, which is clearly not true.

00:31:02 Speaker_04
So what do you want to tell our listeners listening today?

00:31:06 Speaker_05
I want every listener to know that even though we hear from parents and teachers and friends that reading is this great, fun thing, that it can also be really frustrating and that you're not alone or you're not being lazy or you're not bored.

00:31:21 Speaker_05
or unsmart if you really just don't want to read. It's just because it's frustrating when you're first learning. And even if you're older, you're still like learning and it's not your fault.

00:31:32 Speaker_05
And it's like a process, the tutoring process that I'm in right now for reading and how it can be really frustrating and how it can seem tedious and just like improving is hard. And it's not this easy switch that will occur.

00:31:47 Speaker_05
It's you really have to work and you have to engrave this in your brain. And I think it's really important. And I'm still learning how to do this, but stay patient and really realize that the end goal will be worth it.

00:31:58 Speaker_03
And also just the most important thing that Anna did, I think she asked for help.

00:32:03 Speaker_03
And I think that that's something that whether you're in first grade, whether you're a ninth grader, whether you're a grownup, if you're having trouble and you're not sure why, and you don't know why these things aren't coming together,

00:32:16 Speaker_03
that it's so important is to ask for help. You can ask your grownup. You can ask a teacher. But I think that that's the way that we were able to help Anna is because she spoke up and she could say, I need help.

00:32:29 Speaker_05
I'm so glad that my mom was so helpful and supportive. And she really reassured me that it wasn't my fault. And I'm so thankful that my mom was so helpful and supportive in the process.

00:32:42 Speaker_03
And I'm just so proud of Anna for coming and saying that she needed help, but then also being willing to put in the work that she needs to put in to go through all this, to really connect those sounds with the letters.

00:32:55 Speaker_03
And she has really been committed. And so I'm very proud of her for doing that. And I'm just, I'm so excited and happy for her that we're figuring this out.

00:33:12 Speaker_04
Human brains are usually pretty good at learning to move and communicate without much help.

00:33:18 Speaker_05
But reading is different because it's such a new skill for our species.

00:33:22 Speaker_04
Research says the best way to learn to read is to start by learning the letters and the sounds that go with them and then sound out words letter by letter until you get so good your brain can recognize words super fast.

00:33:35 Speaker_05
Not everyone was taught to read this way though.

00:33:37 Speaker_04
If you want to get better at reading, there are lots of ways to do it. Just ask for help. That's it for this episode of Brains On. Many super duper special thanks to Emily Hanford for her reporting and helping us with this episode.

00:34:04 Speaker_04
We highly recommend listening to her whole series, Sold a Story. You can find it wherever you listen to Brains On or at soldastory.org. Our editors are Sandan Totten and Shayla Farzan.

00:34:16 Speaker_04
This episode was sound designed by Rachel Brees, and we had engineering help from Gary O'Keefe and Derek Ramirez. Beth Perlman is our executive producer. The executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith.

00:34:28 Speaker_04
Special thanks to Susie Brandmeier.

00:34:30 Speaker_05
Brains On is a nonprofit public radio program.

00:34:33 Speaker_04
There are lots of ways to support the show. Head to brainson.org.

00:34:37 Speaker_05
While you're there, you can send in questions.

00:34:39 Speaker_04
And fan art. We love getting fan art from you.

00:34:43 Speaker_05
You can also subscribe to our Smarty Pass.

00:34:46 Speaker_04
When you do, you'll get ad-free episodes and super special bonus stuff. SmartyPass.org. Okay, Anna, are you ready to hear the mystery sound again?

00:34:57 Speaker_05
Yes, I'm really excited to see what it is. Me too. I don't know. I'm still sticking with my page flip theory.

00:35:12 Speaker_04
Very good theory. I have no idea what it is either, and that's what I thought too. So let's see if our brains got it. Here is the answer.

00:35:19 Speaker_08
Hi, I'm Samuel. And I'm Miriam. And that was the sound of us flipping the pages of a book.

00:35:26 Speaker_04
Hey! Yay! Anna, so good. Excellent ears. Nice work. Now it's time for the Brain's Honor Roll. These are the kids who keep the show going with their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives.

00:35:45 Speaker_04
Esme and Cleo from Philadelphia, June and Carrie from Raleigh, North Carolina, Eli from Spokane, Washington, Manny from Fargo, Harrison from Santa Monica, California, Noah from Vancouver, Miles from Tennessee, Maya from Minneapolis, Martha from Forest Lake, Minnesota, Simon from Los Angeles, Wesley and Annalise from Rockford, Illinois, Jason from Cupertino, California, Viola from Seattle, Parker from Dover, Ohio, Christopher from Ashburn, Virginia, Colby, Asher, Wren, and Milo from Belvedere, Illinois.

00:36:10 Speaker_04
Sam from Exeter, Rhode Island, Poppy from Toronto, Nate and Samantha from Stamford, Connecticut, Kazuki from San Jose, California, Heywood from Richmond, British Columbia, Navi from Olympia, Washington, Julian from Wakefield, Quebec, Cassie from Washington, D.C., Aditya from Big Rapids, Michigan, Eli and Arthur from New York City, Maddie from Brooklyn, New York, Autumn from Floyd, Virginia, Jimmy from Sammamish, Washington, Grace and Seth from Portland, Oregon, Xavier, Hugo, and Tao from Johannesburg, South Africa,

00:36:36 Speaker_04
DJ from Garnerville, New York. Jonathan from North Andover, Massachusetts. Kruti from Miami. Clark from Pittsburgh. Amelie from Keely, England. Ryan from Sterling, Massachusetts. Leo from Pittsburgh, New York. Aurora from Sydney, Australia.

00:36:47 Speaker_04
Amira and Corbin from Memphis, Tennessee. Reese, Afton, and Drake from Harrisburg, South Dakota. Noe and Ollie from Spokane, Washington. Logan and Myla from West Midlands, England. Leo from Manchester, UK. Jaden from Simi Valley, California.

00:36:59 Speaker_04
Evelyn and Midge from Bangor, Maine. Elliot from Mount Airy, North Carolina. T-Bo from Hillsborough, California. Lucas from Flowery Branch, Georgia. Jack from Benicia, California. Hazel from San Carlos, California. Vishay from Frisco, Texas.

00:37:12 Speaker_04
Elliot from San Francisco. Corbin from Gresham, Oregon. Charlie, Daniel, and Liam from St. Louis. Dulcy from Hobart, Australia. Matthew from San Diego. Phoebe and Owen from Santa Barbara, California. Aria from St. Louis. Axel from Perth, Australia.

00:37:23 Speaker_04
Noah and Sammy from Decker, Indiana. Sophia from Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. Brendan, Donovan, Catalina, Lucia, Elena, and Isabella from Kailua, Hawaii. Ellie and Henry from Shoreview, Minnesota.

00:37:33 Speaker_04
Dexter and Phoenix from Yorba Linda, California, and Ada from St. Paul, Minnesota. We'll be back next week with more answers to your questions.

00:37:49 Speaker_05
Thanks for listening.