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Episode: Big Tech Earnings, Trump Media Stock Plunge, and Guest Margaret Brennan

Author: New York Magazine
Duration: 01:22:49

Episode Shownotes

Kara and Scott discuss the rise and fall of Trump Media stock, and whether or not it's an accurate predictor for the election. Plus, Biden's "garbage" comments create a headache for Democrats, Trump vows to protect women whether they "like it or not," and is it too late for Harris

to go on Joe Rogan's podcast? Then, what the latest earnings from Alphabet, Meta, and Microsoft reveal about the AI arms race. Our Friend of Pivot is "Face the Nation" moderator Margaret Brennan. Margaret shares what she'll be watching for on Election Day, and why she finds the current information environment so concerning. Follow Margaret at @margbrennan Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary

In this episode of 'Pivot,' the hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway explore the political tensions in the U.S. ahead of the upcoming elections, emphasizing the volatile stock behaviors of Trump Media and the potential market manipulations linked to it. They discuss the tech earnings from major companies and their implications for the industry, alongside President Biden's controversial remarks about Trump supporters. Special guest Margaret Brennan shares insights into the election landscape, addressing issues such as women's rights, early voting trends, and the challenges in maintaining public trust in journalism amidst heightened misinformation.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Big Tech Earnings, Trump Media Stock Plunge, and Guest Margaret Brennan) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_03
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00:01:14 Speaker_05
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00:01:22 Speaker_09
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00:01:32 Speaker_09
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00:01:58 Speaker_05
I love Scott being irritated by me and I love being irritated by Scott. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.

00:02:09 Speaker_09
And I'm Scott Galloway.

00:02:10 Speaker_05
Scott, are you back in London?

00:02:11 Speaker_09
I am, and I'm actually happy to be here. I really, I don't know if, well, it's hard for you to notice this, but being back in London and being in the U.S. for two and a half weeks, I was surprised, surprised?

00:02:27 Speaker_09
Well, noticed, it is visibly, observably tense in the U.S. right now.

00:02:35 Speaker_04
Yes, indeed.

00:02:36 Speaker_09
I was at a fundraiser on Saturday for Jed, which focuses on, it's a wonderful nonprofit that focuses on works with high schools to help with teen mental health and suicide prevention.

00:02:49 Speaker_09
And I was giving a talk, and out of the blue, someone from a corner yelled, Trump 2024. And then someone else on the other side felt compelled to start booing him. I mean, this is a fundraiser for teen mental health.

00:03:04 Speaker_04
Right. Why did they do that? Why did that Trump person do that?

00:03:08 Speaker_09
Well, I don't know. But everyone you talk to seems very tense, very polarized, very on edge. One of the things I really appreciate about the U.K. is that here elections run six weeks from start to finish.

00:03:25 Speaker_09
It does seem that everyone just sort of is like kind of nonplussed a little bit by the results and then they just, you know, keep calm and carry on. I could not get over how tense it felt in the U.S. Do you feel that?

00:03:36 Speaker_05
Oh yeah, absolutely. Everywhere you go, it's really nuts. It's really crazy. It's very hard to find humor in it.

00:03:44 Speaker_05
Sometimes there's humor in political campaigns, but I think the ugliness level, led by the Republicans really, has gotten to a point and then the Democrats respond.

00:03:56 Speaker_05
I don't think politics should be funny, but it also should feel like you're one country, I guess, in some regard. And it doesn't feel like that.

00:04:04 Speaker_05
On either side, if they win, feel like the people have been ginned up so much that Kamala Harris is the devil, essentially. And the people on the other side are, you know, another Trump administration is disastrous for our country.

00:04:19 Speaker_05
I think it's really they feel like it's it's existential in some weird way. I mean, it's not weird way. It is. It is. It feels in fact, it feels existential, including people who are not that

00:04:31 Speaker_05
I wouldn't say dramatic are saying that, you know, are very worried. And so and I think the inclusion of the world's richest man, I'm sorry, with the money feels like he's buying an election. Right. That's weird.

00:04:44 Speaker_05
You know, this is you say it's a podcast election. I say it's an Elon election. Right. It can can billionaires. by their way. I mean, rich people always have, but not in this explicit and naked an attempt to help their own interests.

00:04:58 Speaker_09
I don't think people would say that about Kennedy and his father and what happened.

00:05:01 Speaker_05
And yes, but it wasn't. This is naked. Like, I guess we always knew it. But this feels so naked and explicit and transactional that it's you know, I guess we kind of have kind of believe a little bit that we're not like that, but then here it is, right?

00:05:18 Speaker_05
I think that's really what's, I think, created the real tension in this situation, is that the richest man in the world who is an immigrant to this country is displaying so much rancor, creating so much division.

00:05:36 Speaker_05
Even more so than Trump, I can't believe it, if that's possible. And I think that's what's sort of getting on people's nerves. It's sort of, you know, I was saying this to someone.

00:05:47 Speaker_05
It's ironic that a week before, on Halloween week, all the masks are off.

00:05:54 Speaker_09
Well, I recognize that my kids know very little about elections, so I've been Trying to teach them about democracy. So just as an exercise last night, I let them vote on dinner and they picked pizza.

00:06:06 Speaker_09
But then I ordered Indian because we don't live in a swing state.

00:06:11 Speaker_05
Very funny, Scott. Trying to lighten the mood. Trying to lighten the mood. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today, including the latest earnings from Alphabet, Microsoft and Meta.

00:06:22 Speaker_05
With just a few days until the election, Joe Biden creates a headache for Democrats, which I think is a nothing burger, but he did it. And Donald Trump makes some creepy new comments about women, which was par for the course, just another Tuesday.

00:06:34 Speaker_05
Plus, we'll get some last-minute political analysts from our friend of Pivot Face the Nation host Margaret Brennan.

00:06:39 Speaker_05
But first, former President Trump's TruSocial was briefly worth more than Elon Musk's X, which has been declining in value, as we've talked about before.

00:06:47 Speaker_05
TruSocial parent company was shortly valued over $10 billion, while X Holdings is valued at $9.4 billion, and that's probably being generous. The Trump media stock was briefly halted several times this week for moving so sharply.

00:07:00 Speaker_05
It's gone up and down. It really is interesting. There's a lot of weird movement in this stock. I'd love to really actually see the transactions.

00:07:07 Speaker_05
Meanwhile, the parent company lost more than $16 million in the quarter ending June and doesn't have very many people on it, which, of course, this is not about its fundamental business issues.

00:07:17 Speaker_05
However, on Wednesday, Trump himself lost $1.3 billion in net worth after the worst trading day ever for the company. We do disagree on why this is happening.

00:07:27 Speaker_05
I think there's a lot of gaming going on here, and I would love to see the logs of who's buying.

00:07:32 Speaker_09
But say more about what you mean by that.

00:07:34 Speaker_05
Well, if you're someone who wants to support Trump, like these poly markets, everyone's like, oh, Peter Thiel owns it. Like people. And it turned out there was one trade in France from one guy, you know, that made it go up.

00:07:46 Speaker_05
So we're all like, oh, Trump's winning. But he's not because one guy did it. Right. And so I worry this stock is being manipulated by Trump. adjacent people, and who knows who they could be, to make it go up and down.

00:07:59 Speaker_05
I don't think this is a bunch of, like, maybe it's Wall Street gaming the situation. It feels very gamed, like, on some level, the way it's gone up.

00:08:08 Speaker_05
Because getting away from the fundamentals of this company, which both of us absolutely agree is a piece of shit, right? It's a shit sandwich inside a shit you know, pie, whatever. It seems unusual that this is happening.

00:08:22 Speaker_05
I don't think it's popular sentiment. It's some other sentiment. And you think differently. You think differently.

00:08:27 Speaker_09
Well, it's an interesting thesis. And that is that if a stock or a poll indicates that Trump is likely to win, that it gives people confidence or incentive or momentum on the Trump side.

00:08:43 Speaker_09
And then I've also heard a counter-theory, and that is it's being manipulated by a wealthy Democrat who wants to give Republican voters a sense it's in the bag such that people stay on the couch.

00:08:55 Speaker_05
I can see — Oh, I didn't hear that one. That's fascinating.

00:08:58 Speaker_09
Yeah, that was my friend Whitney Tilson, who sends out a really thoughtful email almost every day. So I can see someone manipulating, well, let me back up. This is what I think is going on. Polymarket, Kelsha, is that what it's called?

00:09:16 Speaker_09
Something like that, yeah. Anyways, there's a bunch of them that are basically wagering sites where you can bet on, amongst other things, every state, you can bet on margin of victory, and you can bet on the election. And right now on Polymarket,

00:09:30 Speaker_09
it has Trump at 62, approximately 62 or 63, and Harris at 37 or 38%. That is a wide margin.

00:09:42 Speaker_09
And I think the logical thesis, or the most obvious one, and kind of Occam's razor, I think the one that probably is correct, is that the kind of person that goes to a site and bets on an election is probably younger, probably more male, and those people skew heavily Trump.

00:09:56 Speaker_09
Because if you look at the actual data, I mean, the majority of the data across the A-plus list polling sites says that it's pretty much a toss-up. And so if you are a betting person, I mean, I'm actually thinking of doing this just for fun.

00:10:11 Speaker_09
I might put some money on Harris, a poly market, because this is what it means. If you bet $100 on Harris and she wins, you get approximately $287, or almost triple your money.

00:10:24 Speaker_09
And if someone said to you, Kara, bet on this coin flip, and you don't know. And I would describe the election right now, there's the data I see trying to be as unemotional as possible as a coin flip.

00:10:34 Speaker_09
But if someone said to you, Kara, you bet $100 and you pick heads or tails, and if you win, you get 287, You would do that because it's asymmetric upside.

00:10:45 Speaker_05
Absolutely. In fact, let's do it. Let's do it.

00:10:47 Speaker_09
Well, that's actually what I'm thinking because not that I'm hopeful, but I'm not that confident. I think it's literally a coin flip. But if on a coin flip, you're getting $287. Then again, you have disproportionate upside.

00:11:02 Speaker_09
So, I think the thesis that these markets are driven by who bets which way or the other, the most obvious explanation is that the people – it's like – do you remember when Floyd Mayweather fought Conor McGregor?

00:11:17 Speaker_09
Anyways, this UFC fighter, this whiter than white guy, red hair, Irish guy, who's actually not that great an MMA fighter. He's just very loud and obnoxious.

00:11:25 Speaker_09
Well, anyways, and he fought Floyd Mayweather, who arguably has the fastest hands in the history of boxing. But the odds were much tighter because I think people still like the idea.

00:11:35 Speaker_09
I think there's some unconscious racism where people like the idea of the white guy beating up or winning the, you know, beating the Black guy.

00:11:45 Speaker_09
There's always, throughout the history of boxing, there's always a little bit of bias for the white guy, the great white hope, so to speak.

00:11:52 Speaker_09
And the best bet or the easiest bet was on Floyd Mayweather fighting an OK MMA fighter that has never boxed before. Anyway, my point is, you're getting asymmetric upside to the notion of... Who won that?

00:12:06 Speaker_05
Dang, I don't even know.

00:12:06 Speaker_09
To Conor McGregor's credit, he fought a competent fight, but Floyd Mayweather absolutely dominated and won, as he should have.

00:12:16 Speaker_09
But the thing that I don't think is being manipulated for Trump's favor is the stock, because the stock was almost at 100 a couple years ago. It's been as low as 12. So I don't know if that's sending signals into the marketplace.

00:12:30 Speaker_05
Why not? Why couldn't one or ten? Listen to this. This is interesting. Fortune had a really interesting investigation and separate investigations completed by the blockchain firms Chaos Labs and Inca Digital and shared exclusively with Fortune.

00:12:42 Speaker_05
Analysts found that polymarket activity gives signs of wash trading, a form of market manipulation where shares are bought and sold often simultaneously and repeatedly to create a false impression of volume of activity.

00:12:52 Speaker_05
Chaos Labs found that wash trading consisted around one-third of trading volume in PolyMarket's presidential market, while Inca Digital found that a significant portion of the volume in the market could be attributed to potential wash trading.

00:13:04 Speaker_05
The other ones, you know, they're looking at those too. And I think you could do the same thing with this, with this stuff. Very little needs to trade to make it go up.

00:13:12 Speaker_05
And if you wanted, I was intrigued by the Democratic thing, make them feel confident and then, you know. Put $100 for each of us on that. Will you do that? Will you do that? And I'll owe you?

00:13:26 Speaker_09
I might do a little bit more than that. But anyways, I buy the thesis around the polls because around the betting sites, because a lot of media reports on the betting sites.

00:13:38 Speaker_09
And when the media reports that, according to PolyMarket or Calshi, that Trump is almost two to one favored, that sends a signal that's probably, on the whole, good for the Trump campaign.

00:13:50 Speaker_09
Where the stock is, I don't think does much around a signal or confidence or lack thereof. I don't think it creates much of a echo effect in favor of one candidate or the other.

00:14:01 Speaker_05
I would short that stock like nobody's business. Well, you wouldn't like, well, it could rise. Yeah, you could. No, you could rise.

00:14:07 Speaker_09
You gotta be very careful shorting a stock like that because if he wins- It's a name stock, it's a name stock. There's a scenario where it goes 100 bucks on November the 6th. And the dangerous thing about short selling is your losses are unlimited.

00:14:22 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's true.

00:14:23 Speaker_09
Anyways, but I guess what I'm saying is I absolutely buy your thesis around manipulating and the incentive around manipulating the betting markets. I'm not sure I see the connection and incentive around manipulating the stock.

00:14:34 Speaker_05
One, two, it doesn't need that many. I'd love to see it. I'd like to actually see the trading. Anyway, we'll see what happens when we go forward. Let's move on to other things.

00:14:42 Speaker_05
Apple released its first set of Apple Intelligence features for the iPhone, iPad, and Mac this week. The rollout includes notification and email summaries, text writing tools, image editing, and improved Siri, stuff we're kind of used to already.

00:14:53 Speaker_05
The response, of course, has not been overwhelmingly positive, with a number of views calling new features underwhelming. And I think they are, because we've been using them on Google and everything else.

00:15:01 Speaker_05
But as Tim Cook noted in an interview with WSJ Magazine last week, the technology will take some iteration. It's not about being first, but best. Apple Intelligence help iPhone sales?

00:15:12 Speaker_05
And how long do they have to deliver real changes to Apple phones to make technology worth? Well, they aren't making the investment other people are. They're just using the investments other people are making.

00:15:23 Speaker_05
So probably a good bet from what I can tell.

00:15:25 Speaker_09
Yeah, well, we talked about this.

00:15:27 Speaker_09
The concept that Apple, I think the reason that the stock is trading at an historic high in terms of multiple earnings, it's all time high in terms of the actual stock price, is that one, it continues to be sort of a safe place for growth and continued dominance, great execution, great management, unbelievable cash flows, the most profitable product in the history of mankind.

00:15:53 Speaker_09
is on a gross profit level, the iPhone and maybe the App Store on a gross margin basis. But what I think people got excited about was the business model. Basically they said, Apple is gonna not get into this arms race.

00:16:06 Speaker_09
It's gonna be a weapons manufacturer. It's gonna be on the right side of this arms race. And that is it will ultimately position their Apple intelligence as someone who they co-brand and probably get some enormous licensing fee from.

00:16:19 Speaker_09
And they're not entering into this multi 10, 20, $50 billion arms race trying to develop their own unique LLM strategy. They're going to leverage every other one's CapEx.

00:16:30 Speaker_09
But in terms of the actual product offering, underwhelming is probably the right term so far. I mean, it's not like you turned on, you pull up iOS and think, wow, AI is really changing things. It's not. Things like main features unfailed,

00:16:50 Speaker_09
include graphic cues to indicate the presence of AI in apps, writing tools, okay, an AI eraser in photos for editing, and notification summaries.

00:16:59 Speaker_09
If they hadn't said AI, you would have just thought these were kind of small, incremental upgrades, wouldn't have even noticed. And so, look, but it's the business model that's got people

00:17:11 Speaker_05
that they don't have to pay so much for the benefits, right?

00:17:14 Speaker_09
Well, they've said we're not getting into this arms race. I mean, to be viable in this thing, you have to be you have to be allocating 10, 50, 100 billion dollars over the next three, five years. And Apple said, I have an idea.

00:17:28 Speaker_09
Rather than investing 10, 50, 100 billion dollars, why don't we collect 10 or 20 billion a year from whoever wants their logo in front of the billion wealthiest consumers?

00:17:37 Speaker_05
Yeah, and Apple shares are up the last six months and year to date by quite a bit, 25%. Because they aren't making these massive investments. We'll see how they roll it out.

00:17:48 Speaker_05
And of course, as most people know, these things get better as they're used, right? And they figure out, and I think they'll probably do the best job of deploying the usages. I find a lot of the, I say I use Gmail.

00:18:01 Speaker_05
Can you want me to help you write this? You want me to say it? I find it annoying and not helpful. I wish I could turn it off for the most part, including in the search where they give me an answer that I wasn't looking for.

00:18:11 Speaker_05
I just don't think it's yet yielded what maybe it will help us do, and I suspect Apple will be the best place for doing that. But it is underwhelming so far. And speaking of all the investments, let's get to our first big story.

00:18:27 Speaker_05
Scott, it's been a big week for tech earnings, and we're going to focus in on tech earnings. First up, Microsoft's stock is down 4% after beating expectations for quarterly revenue and earnings, but forecasting slower than expected growth.

00:18:38 Speaker_05
The company's revenue increased 16%, net income rose 11%. Very strong. performance. Microsoft said its AI business is on track to surpass an annual run rate of $10 billion the next quarter.

00:18:49 Speaker_05
But CFO Amy Hood says she expects Microsoft to take a $1.5 billion hit to income, mostly because of expected loss from open AI. As for gaming, Microsoft said Xbox content and services revenue grew 61% driven by acquisition.

00:19:03 Speaker_05
So I suppose we could ignore that pretty much. This AI, Satya said 70% of Fortune 500 companies use Microsoft 365 Copilot for at least some employees. Just a lot of big spending here for what they're doing, right? From what I can tell.

00:19:17 Speaker_09
Well, why don't we, let's just do a quick kind of round the world on the tech earnings here because there was a bunch of them.

00:19:22 Speaker_05
All right, let me go to meta then. Okay, meta shares are down 2%. The company's revenue is up 19% to $40.6 billion in profit was up 35%. Very impressive.

00:19:32 Speaker_05
The growth is already driven by advancements in advertising targeting, which the company says comes from its investments in AI. That's the real plus here. But the company also raised its annual spending forecast. to $38 to $40 billion. Incredible.

00:19:46 Speaker_05
It spooked Wall Street, the spending on AI, essentially. Moving to Alphabet, the company's revenue grew 15% and its cloud revenue grew almost 35%. The company said its growth is due to, you guessed it, its AI offerings.

00:19:57 Speaker_05
Google's search business revenue is up 12.3% and remains the biggest contributor to revenue growth. A couple more, SnapStock is up 21% in the last five days after sales jumped 15% and companies' net loss narrowed.

00:20:10 Speaker_05
to 153 million from 368 million, and Reddit shares really are on a tear, topped $100 for the first time after reporting 68% jump in revenue and turning profitable.

00:20:22 Speaker_05
You recently talked to its CEO, and I just saw him at this event I was at with Reid Hoffman. Apple and Amazon report earnings after we tape on Thursday, but that's a good look at some of these. Please, please go on, Scott.

00:20:35 Speaker_09
Well, there's just no getting around it. It was an outstanding, just an outstanding quarter for tech companies. And what's become clear is that expectations are no longer expectations. Essentially, Meta exceeded revenue and earnings expectations.

00:20:53 Speaker_09
Its revenues were up 19%, its earnings up 35%, and the stock is down because now the expectations, Cara, in this market, in tech, the expectation is that you're going to beat expectations.

00:21:09 Speaker_09
People are so used to quarters where these companies just blow away expectations that when they just mildly beat expectations, that's not enough.

00:21:19 Speaker_09
The thing that people love about meta, if you will, is that it's AI-driven feed and video recommendations led to an 8 percent increase in time spent on the core platform and 6% increase on Instagram.

00:21:33 Speaker_09
And so when you take increased time on the platform, growth in the platform, and an increase in ad rates, you know, Nitro meet Glycerin meet, you know, C4 or whatever it is, ad impressions increased 7% year on year. and price per ad increased 11%.

00:21:50 Speaker_09
Also, in contrast to what we were talking about with Apple, people look at Meta and say, what spooked it?

00:21:57 Speaker_09
While it has much stronger earnings, much stronger revenue growth than say a company like Apple, people are spooked by the fact that Meta has said, no, we're entering into this arms race and we're gonna take CapEx up and we're gonna go after

00:22:14 Speaker_09
We're not decreasing the spend in this ridiculous AR thing that everyone was hoping, but we're going to increase substantially our spending in these AI wars. Microsoft revenue and earnings beat, but the stock down 4%, total revenue up 17%.

00:22:32 Speaker_09
That's incredible. And the revenue mix is really- These are old companies, remember.

00:22:37 Speaker_05
These are old companies.

00:22:37 Speaker_09
Off a huge basis. When you grow a company 17% on 62 billion, You're growing your top-line revenue. You have incremental revenue growth of $10 billion.

00:22:49 Speaker_09
The revenues from Azure, Microsoft's cloud offering increased 33 percent, which probably increased their margin mix. And then the company that is probably the best-performing IPO in tech of the last several years,

00:23:04 Speaker_09
Reddit recognized revenue growth of 68%. The company became profitable. The stock soared 22%. The stock has tripled since its IPO a couple months ago. Daily active users increased 47% year on year.

00:23:20 Speaker_09
And get this, it was the sixth most Googled word in the U.S. It's now being translated into French, Spanish, Portuguese, and German. going global, and international users grew 44%.

00:23:32 Speaker_09
And then even the little engine that's been struggling is doing well, and that is Snap.

00:23:39 Speaker_04
That was interesting.

00:23:40 Speaker_09
And what's interesting here is Snap didn't have nearly the quarter of the other folks, but its stock jumped 10%. Why? Because the expectations, everyone's kind of waiting for Snap to get sort of crushed, right?

00:23:51 Speaker_09
And they occasionally pop up and say, no, things are pretty good here. And when they do, The stock goes up. The sales were up 15%. Losses narrowed to $150 million from about $370.

00:24:03 Speaker_09
The reported daily active users were up 9%, and they also announced a stock repurchase program, which doesn't make sense to me when the company is losing money. But anyways, there's just no getting around it, Cara. Tech is eating the planet.

00:24:18 Speaker_09
And what you look at here, just to link it to something else, I had dinner with a household name amazing anchor on cable TV who makes tens of millions of dollars. And this person told me,

00:24:32 Speaker_09
that all the negotiations that are coming up this year between the stars and the cable networks, they're being offered salary cuts of 50, 60, and 70 percent. Why? Because when every

00:24:48 Speaker_09
tech-driven media platform is growing their top line by 3, 5, 10 billion dollars. Guess where that's coming from? The traditional media ecosystem. And the two are absolutely linked. This money isn't being invented. There is some growth in the economy.

00:25:03 Speaker_09
People are spending more time online. But more than anything, there is a bit of a zero-sum game here.

00:25:09 Speaker_09
And if you're in the ad-supported media game and you don't have an AI ad stack where a third of the planet is already on it, you are just fucked right now. And the only ad-supported medium that is growing

00:25:23 Speaker_09
And bucking the trend is what Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway do right now. Podcasts are blowing up.

00:25:31 Speaker_04
They haven't AI'd us yet, Scott. They haven't. They will.

00:25:34 Speaker_09
So far. So far, we're holding our own. But it's the media ecosystem right now is really going under fundamental change.

00:25:41 Speaker_09
And speaking of media ecosystem, the only thing I'll finish with here, because I don't think people really consider what's going on here, if you think What is the number one streaming player? What do you think?

00:25:54 Speaker_04
I don't know. Probably Netflix, right?

00:25:55 Speaker_09
I think everyone would say 90 percent would say Netflix, but it's not. The number one streaming platform is YouTube.

00:26:02 Speaker_04
Oh, YouTube. Yeah. And they're right. It's funny, right?

00:26:04 Speaker_09
We don't even think of it that way. I would have said the same thing, but they're beating them. Their combined ad and subscription revenue over the past four quarters has surpassed 50 billion. That makes them the number one highest growing video app.

00:26:15 Speaker_09
Netflix is 37 billion. So get this. YouTube at 50, Netflix at 37. And I think there's a decent chance, if Alphabet gets really scared, they may offer as a peace offering, even though it's not what the DOJ wants.

00:26:29 Speaker_09
Well, if they spun YouTube and they got the same multiple that's been assigned to Netflix, this is a company, YouTube as an independent stock would be worth approximately a half a trillion dollars, which is real, real cabbage.

00:26:41 Speaker_05
I'll tell you, my kids, that's what they watch. That's what they watch, YouTube. They use Reddit. They use Reddit, YouTube, Snapchat. It's really interesting to watch their behaviors. Yeah, it's really interesting. Very good analysis, Scott. We'll see.

00:26:55 Speaker_05
So very quickly, two sentences. Would you buy or sell with stock right now with the downward push around expectations?

00:27:04 Speaker_09
I'm sorry, which stock, Karen?

00:27:05 Speaker_05
Would you buy all of them, the basket of tech stocks?

00:27:09 Speaker_09
Not only would I buy all of these companies, my financial advice is I wouldn't buy these six companies. I'd buy these six companies and the other 494 in the S&P.

00:27:19 Speaker_09
buy them all, you don't need to be a hero, don't try and find the needle in the haystack, buy the whole haystack.

00:27:25 Speaker_09
These companies are on fire right now, but they're also trading at really rich multiples, meaning if there is a recession, if all of a sudden a big company announces-

00:27:37 Speaker_09
Or probably more realistically, if a big company that's been a big purchaser of GPUs or is a corporate user of AI announces they're reducing their purchases of GPUs or that AI is not living up to their expectations, you are going to see the water flow out like a tsunami is coming.

00:27:58 Speaker_09
the ripple effect across all of these companies would be dramatic. So, yeah, is Pepsi or is Ford or whoever it is, or is Exxon, are these boring companies? Yeah, it's unlikely they're going to go down 40 or 60 percent.

00:28:11 Speaker_09
A company like NVIDIA could absolutely go up 50 percent. It could easily go down 50 percent. So, you want to diversify and buy all of them.

00:28:19 Speaker_05
Diversified. So buy us some Kamala stock, OK? There you go. Buy us some. I'm hitting Marcus. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, how Joe Biden created a last minute mess for the Democrats.

00:28:29 Speaker_05
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00:30:41 Speaker_05
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00:31:32 Speaker_05
Next Up Anytime feature may be discontinued at any time, subject to change. Additional fees, terms, and restrictions apply. See att.com slash iPhone for details. Scott, we're back with our second big story.

00:31:50 Speaker_05
Inevitably, given next time we talk, it'll be election day, is what's going on on that, because it'll affect technology. It'll affect everybody.

00:31:57 Speaker_05
President Biden may be off the ballot, but he's back in the spotlight this week after appearing to say Trump supporters were garbage. He didn't quite say that on a call with Latino voters. Doesn't really matter.

00:32:06 Speaker_05
Biden later said he was describing comedian Tony Hinchcliffe's hateful language as garbage. And it was. I think that's it looks like that's what he said. But he has a problem talking sometimes.

00:32:16 Speaker_05
Kamala Harris has tried to distance herself from the remarks. She did indeed distance herself. But Trump sees on him dressing up as a garbageman, which I thought was a bad idea because he said he had garbage, too.

00:32:26 Speaker_05
So now I'm like, oh, now you're making fun of. I don't think any of them are, well, Kamala Harris tried to get out of it, but both Trump and Biden look like crazy old men.

00:32:35 Speaker_05
And also Trump stumbled, visibly stumbled when trying to get into the garbage truck, which has even got a lot of attention. He looks really old this week, I have to say. Suddenly he looked like my mother. I just, I don't know what happened.

00:32:46 Speaker_05
He suddenly, you know, the flat, just older, just older. My mother's 90 compared to Trump's 78, I guess. Are Biden's comments really matter? I don't think they do. I don't think anyone's thinking of Biden. I don't know.

00:32:59 Speaker_09
It was a dumb thing to say. Late in the campaign, he should probably be saying nothing at this point. And so it was kind of an unforced error. And I have to catch all of this. I'm really trying to moderate my bias.

00:33:11 Speaker_09
And I realize it's impossible at this point. But I think that Tony Hinchcliffe's comments may, in fact, have a real impact on the ground.

00:33:21 Speaker_09
I hear there are some Latino voters and Puerto Ricans who are pretty pissed off and they do see some early signs that some of these folks are are more excited to vote for Harris than they were previous these comments. Biden's comments. I don't know.

00:33:37 Speaker_05
I don't know if I was like I was like is he still here. What. Oh, there he is. But I have to say, Trump did once again, because I think he's the real fucked up saying things person in this particular part of the election.

00:33:50 Speaker_05
Biden was the winner on that when he was running, but now Trump is really kind of lapping him quite a bit. With comments he made at a rally on Wednesday, because women are scared of him. So what does he say? Let's listen.

00:34:01 Speaker_06
Four weeks ago, I was saying, no, I want to protect the people. I want to protect the women of our country. I want to protect the women. Sir, please don't say that. Why? They said, we think it's we think it's very inappropriate for you to say so. Why?

00:34:14 Speaker_06
I'm president. I want to protect the women of our country. They said. They said, sir, I just think it's inappropriate for you to say, pay these guys a lot of money. Can you believe it? I said, well, I'm going to do it whether the women like it or not.

00:34:36 Speaker_06
I'm going to protect them. I'm going to protect them from migrants coming in. I'm going to protect them from foreign countries that want to hit hit us with missiles and lots of other things.

00:34:48 Speaker_05
Ooh, creepy, that gave me the creeps. Whether they like it or not, which is kind of his brand, right? I'm gonna grab them by the pussy whether they like it or not, I'm gonna do whatever I want.

00:34:56 Speaker_05
There's two more allegations of groping, which is just added to the pile of groping allegations, which I think are entirely true. Any thoughts?

00:35:07 Speaker_09
Yeah, I don't, you know, I talk about men's natural instincts should be a move to protection. This is not what we mean.

00:35:15 Speaker_04
Yeah, I don't think that's what you're talking about.

00:35:17 Speaker_09
So, look, I don't think these things matter. And unfortunately,

00:35:24 Speaker_09
Again, I believe that these outrageous comments actually help them because they crowd out any serious conversation around their policies, whether it's economic growth, whether it's what's inflationary, whether it's expanding services such that the sandwich generation can have an easier time taking care of their parents, whether it's trying to figure out a way to ensure the deficit does not result in massive interest rates on the next generation.

00:35:50 Speaker_09
You reverse any serious policy discussion, reverse engineers, to whether you like it or not, perfect, it's not on the menu, that you should vote for Harris.

00:35:59 Speaker_09
But we don't have a serious conversation because all the oxygen is about fucking garbage trucks.

00:36:04 Speaker_05
Anyway, oh, interesting. Joe Rogan, you've been talking about it being the podcast election. I assume you're saying it's the Elon election, has clarified that an interview with Kamala Harris is not off the table.

00:36:13 Speaker_05
Rogan posted on ExidyDecline the Harris campaign's offer to record an interview because he didn't want to travel to her. and would have gotten only an hour to talk. He loves to go on for a while, which they should have known.

00:36:22 Speaker_05
Honestly, he talks for like nine hours sometimes. He discussed it a little more on his podcast. Let's listen.

00:36:28 Speaker_00
You could look at this and you could say, oh, you're being a diva. But she had an opportunity to come here when she was in Texas. And I literally gave them an open invitation. I said, anytime.

00:36:36 Speaker_00
I said, if she's done at 10 o'clock, we'll come back here at 10 o'clock. I go, I'll do it at nine in the morning. I'll do it at 10 PM. I'll do it at midnight. She's up. She wants to, you know, drink a Red Bull, fucking party on.

00:36:48 Speaker_05
I think she should try to talk to him still. Trump sat down with Rogan for a three hour interview, which really didn't move any needle, I don't think. I don't think he did very well on it.

00:36:55 Speaker_09
He actually, I would disagree with that. If you listen to it.

00:36:58 Speaker_05
Oh, I think he sounded old. I did listen to the whole thing.

00:37:01 Speaker_09
Yeah, but I do think it softened his image. I think that was a win for the Trump campaign.

00:37:05 Speaker_05
Well, I felt like he felt old. That's what I got from it. Old man. Old man talking. J.D. Vance recorded an episode on Wednesday. He was probably pretty good because he's sharp on those things. So you think she should still try to talk to him? Is it too late?

00:37:18 Speaker_09
Whatever's required, she should do it because, look, we keep repeating this, her going en route, he's not a gotcha kind of person. I think she'll do well in that format.

00:37:29 Speaker_09
I think sometimes when she's hard-pressed on the spot for a snappy, quick, Obama-like or Buttigieg response, she's not good at that.

00:37:38 Speaker_09
In that format, and the fact that Joe, I think, tries to position people in their best light, present them in their best light, I think she would do well.

00:37:46 Speaker_05
No matter what they're saying.

00:37:47 Speaker_09
Yeah, exactly.

00:37:47 Speaker_05
Measles? You know, measles vaccines? Joe, what? You're a good guy. Friend of measles. Yeah.

00:37:54 Speaker_09
But having said that, the thing I find a little bit off-putting, quite frankly, is that as important as Joe is, as wealthy as he is, I do like valuing your time, I get it.

00:38:06 Speaker_09
If the vice president, if you've interviewed one candidate, you're about to interview the VP, if the vice president calls you and says, I'd like to be on your podcast, you get on a fucking plane. I do think that's a little, diva-ish on his part.

00:38:20 Speaker_09
Now, having said that, that's his right. And given that's the conditions he's laid out, her going on that podcast is the same exposure as if she went on MSNBC, CNN, and Fox every night during primetime for a week. So should he get on a plane?

00:38:38 Speaker_09
Yes, he's not, which means she should get on a plane. It's worth it.

00:38:42 Speaker_05
She should. She should have done it then. I think it was a mistake. I think it's a mistake. You know, he's very controversial. We get it. Doesn't matter. Just get on there and throw down with him. Drink a Red Bull. He'll love you.

00:38:53 Speaker_05
He'll tell you, oh, wait a minute. Maybe you all should vote for him. It'll definitely muddy the waters. That's for sure. That's what it'll do. And that's what you kind of want.

00:39:00 Speaker_05
And a follow up to our discussion from earlier this week, Jeff Bezos has spoken out on the Washington Post decision not to endorse a presidential candidate in an op-ed that was in desperate need of editing for The Post.

00:39:12 Speaker_05
Bezos said no quid pro quo of any kind was at work. We didn't necessarily think that. Acknowledged when it comes to the appearance of convict, I'm not an ideal owner of the Washington Post. I called that a no shit Sherlock comment.

00:39:23 Speaker_05
He also called out podcasts and social media posts for spreading misinformation division. I feel like he was talking about us, Scott, but I don't know, maybe, maybe all of us. I feel like off the cuff podcasts, that sounds like us.

00:39:34 Speaker_05
What did you think of his attempts at cleaning up the mess? They've now gotten to 250,000 subscribers since the announcement that there would be no endorsement. $30 million in revenue that they hardly lost.

00:39:45 Speaker_09
That's about 12% of their subscriber base.

00:39:48 Speaker_05
Yeah, 10% have digital subscriber base right now. But it's probably more. It's probably accelerated. Boy, has he shit the bed. And let me just tell you, it's not the reporters of The Washington Post, not some of the editors.

00:39:58 Speaker_05
Some of the editors have been sort of weak, weak need as far as I'm concerned. But boys, he made a mess of this, man. And that piece was very obnoxious, I thought, and very old school. I was like, oh, really? The media is not liked?

00:40:10 Speaker_05
Did you just check into this problem we've got? And never mentioned Trump's attacks on the media, never mentioned social and searches impact on the media, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

00:40:20 Speaker_09
His response was well-written. He attempted to debunk the notion that there was any connection between... He claims that he had no idea that Blue Origin was meeting with the Trump campaign. There's no getting around it. The optics are really bad.

00:40:37 Speaker_09
And generally speaking, in terms of governance, when you own a media property going into an election,

00:40:43 Speaker_09
and you're the owner and you are not the publisher, you're not like Arthur Sulzberger in the building involved every day, you are just a quote-unquote passive owner, you stay the fuck out of their knitting leading up to an election of this anxiety and importance.

00:40:59 Speaker_05
where you have a lot of business interests that are clear.

00:41:02 Speaker_09
You just you have conflict. You want it. Plaza. I love the term plausible deniability.

00:41:08 Speaker_09
So if they had screwed up and they decided to do this or not do it or whatever they did, he can say, folks, I spent three hundred fifty million dollars of my own money because I think this is an important institution.

00:41:20 Speaker_04
The 250.

00:41:20 Speaker_09
Mm hmm. Wow, he got it for a song, didn't he?

00:41:23 Speaker_04
He did, yes.

00:41:24 Speaker_09
Anyways, he spent $250 million to get a big fucking headache. Anyways, but if he'd said, I believe in this, and I think his initial motivation was actually pretty noble here, and I would argue he's been a decent steward.

00:41:38 Speaker_09
because he's kept his hands out, he should not be making editorial decisions as a passive owner that occasionally shows up to talk to people, you know, to flex his biceps and talk to people and give them a rally speech.

00:41:51 Speaker_09
He should be able to say what, you know, I get to decide who runs the thing. And then beyond that, they get to do what they think is best.

00:42:01 Speaker_05
Let me just, let me make a further argument. Owners do this. They do, they do insert themselves. But for one, he never had, and to do it a week before the, you know, 10 days before the election was astonishing.

00:42:12 Speaker_05
Like that, he never had, and then he does it right now. And then he's like, oh, it was like bad timing or bad planning.

00:42:18 Speaker_00
I'm like,

00:42:19 Speaker_05
You know what? You were at a Katy Perry party. I saw pictures of you at sunset. Like you had no time, sir. Like he had plenty of time to if he really this really meant a lot to him to do it.

00:42:29 Speaker_05
It looked I don't think he knew Dave Lemp was meeting with Trump. I don't necessarily. But I do know that. There doesn't have to be a quid pro quo to understand that your business interests are problematic here at best, right?

00:42:41 Speaker_05
Not even at best, they are problematic. Second thing is, his tone in this piece was someone who has just checked into the media ecosystem. I was literally like, 2008 is calling and wants its billionaire back, essentially.

00:42:55 Speaker_05
It was such an old idea of the media, and without leaving in other factors that are so obvious to someone as smart as this guy, was sort of perplexing.

00:43:04 Speaker_05
And then the tsk-tsk tone was really, like, it's, couldn't he have just said, ugh, did I make a fuck up? Because ugh, This is my fault, clearly. This is all my fault.

00:43:14 Speaker_09
I didn't read it that way. I read it as a solid letter with the right tone.

00:43:18 Speaker_05
The issue was, as you read it, though... Nobody in media liked it, I can tell you that. It was like Daddy was lecturing us about his own fuck-up. He smashed the car into the wall, and it's not us. We didn't smash the wall into the car.

00:43:30 Speaker_09
Well, okay, just one person's opinion. I read it... No.

00:43:33 Speaker_04
Everybody's opinion. But go ahead. Go ahead, your person.

00:43:36 Speaker_09
Okay. As far as I know, I do have domain over my own opinion. So this person's opinion is that the tone, and it was well-written, and he made the points he needed to make.

00:43:46 Speaker_09
The problem is, if you look at the fact pattern and you look at the timeline, you read it, and if you've been following this, as I have, quite frankly, Jeff, it sounds as if you're lying. And so I thought the tone was right.

00:43:59 Speaker_09
I thought he'd made the right points. But quite frankly, after reading it, I just don't believe him. I don't believe this is all a coincidence. And that he kind of, it just, it all stinks. And again, for me, it goes back to governance.

00:44:12 Speaker_09
When you're worth $150 billion and you're off doing other things, which you deserve to do, have the right to do, and you buy a media company, you stay the fuck out of their vetting, especially two weeks before the election.

00:44:23 Speaker_05
Yeah, I don't know why he just didn't say I made a mistake. The guy who ran PR for him says he has convenient principles.

00:44:31 Speaker_05
He said, a longtime advisor to Bezos, who was around a long, he was very much right with Bezos, criticized his cowardly last minute decision by the Washington Post leadership to abandon presidential endorsements that he believes the move reflected classic Bezos business principle about protecting your self-interest by avoiding unnecessary mistakes.

00:44:49 Speaker_05
He said it was convenient principles. And I think he was right. I think this guy's a business guy. He didn't, this is Bezos's, anytime there was a mistake at Amazon and an actual mistake they made, Bezos never apologized and never, and was indignant.

00:45:04 Speaker_05
And that's why I think I react this way because he used to do this all the time when they made clear mistakes. It was our fault. It was always someone else's fault but himself, which is very classic tech. Bro, but he can't do that here.

00:45:17 Speaker_05
I just saying here is the wrong place to do it.

00:45:20 Speaker_09
But let's let's go meta on the notion or the concept of apologizing. Traditionally in business, when you said, I own this, I got this wrong, I'm going to make this right. That was an opportunity to increase trust amongst your constituents.

00:45:33 Speaker_09
Unfortunately, in this ecosystem, still with business, I do think it makes sense to apologize. But unfortunately, most of the incentives now are to never apologize. And because the people you pissed off don't forgive you.

00:45:49 Speaker_09
And everyone else is like, see, I told you. All the incentives kind of line up around not only not apologizing, but quite frankly, doubling down. And until people start saying, good on him, he apologized. I'm subscribing back, but they don't.

00:46:11 Speaker_09
I remember when, and this is a totally different thing, but when I was doing the show for Bloomberg Television, and they asked me to do promos, and I went and did these, what I thought were funny and what they initially really liked.

00:46:24 Speaker_09
I appreciate that. And then they came out, they said, Houston, we have a problem. You've offended some people in the newsroom. So we need you to say that you did this without our knowledge and we need you to apologize.

00:46:36 Speaker_09
And I said, I'll absolutely do the former. I'm not doing the latter because I'm not sorry. And it wouldn't help anyone. So, because apologizing, one, I do believe in apologizing. I just apologized to my kids the other day.

00:46:48 Speaker_09
And I do think that in business, you have to say, I'm doing a business meeting today. I bet on a concept for our company that took everyone off track. I was wrong. I'm not going to apologize, but I'm going to acknowledge the mistake and say, I own this.

00:47:01 Speaker_09
I think in business, good leaders do that. Unfortunately, with social media and the media, All you do is keep the cycle going, you know, admits mistake, admits it was a blunder. People people attack you from both sides.

00:47:16 Speaker_05
Could he have just taken it? Like, this was my decision. I see the impact. I'm sorry to the, I see the internal, I've been called by dozens of Washington Post people. They really love this newspaper.

00:47:29 Speaker_05
And I just think he doesn't, he's acting like the Amazon CEO I remember him to be in a situation that he cannot do that in. This is a very different creature. He did not buy it to make a lot of money.

00:47:41 Speaker_05
He can't treat it like it's Amazon and just leave, get out, get out. Get out if you don't like it.

00:47:48 Speaker_09
Every billionaire that goes into media leaves regretting it.

00:47:52 Speaker_05
They should.

00:47:53 Speaker_09
There's a wonderful movie, All Quiet on the Western Front. Oh, it's a great movie.

00:47:58 Speaker_09
And, you know, it's just such an incredibly tragic story about these 17, 18-year-old German kids who basically think they're going to play a sport and end up in just the most brutal trench warfare, watching their friends be maimed as they fight over the same hundred yards.

00:48:13 Speaker_09
or 100 meters of land. And this is, I don't in any way want to diminish what their experience, but every, I can't think of a billionaire that's gone into media and thought, that was fun. I mean, you own a football team, you might end up selling it.

00:48:29 Speaker_05
Yeah, he should have bought a football, he should have bought the baseball team.

00:48:31 Speaker_09
You know, occasionally your fans don't like you, but on the whole, I think most billionaires who buy a basketball or a football team think, yeah, that was a kick in the ass. And I got to hang out with players and it was fun.

00:48:41 Speaker_09
And all my friends thought I was cool. I name a billionaire. And there's probably been a dozen billionaires who have bought a media company recently. Recently, name one who thought, wow, that was a great idea.

00:48:51 Speaker_05
I agree. I agree. I think it's got to be in the hands. You know, here I'm giving a comment to Rupert Murdoch. He runs his things because he understands media. He does not. Listen, he manipulates the New York Post and stuff like that.

00:49:05 Speaker_05
I never had a problem with him at the, never, never in a million years would he do this.

00:49:10 Speaker_09
Well, he understands the journal.

00:49:12 Speaker_05
That's correct. He understands its position. He does. He understands media. These guys think if there's a nail, I'll hit it with a hammer.

00:49:18 Speaker_05
And the last part is, the problem is he's perpetrated a number of difficulties on this paper, including the hiring of Will Lewis with all that controversy, right? So they've gone through that. They've now gone through this.

00:49:30 Speaker_05
This is in a very short amount of time. It's just like making trouble here for these people who are trying their very best in a very difficult, speaking of political partisanship environment.

00:49:40 Speaker_05
And he's just brought nothing but shame on them in that regard or mistakes. And, you know, who's going to pay for this?

00:49:47 Speaker_05
Because he's not ponying up the money would be my guess, because he's quite cheap in many ways, is they're going to lay off reporters and then the quality of the product gets worse. And then, you know, that's it's unfortunate. Jeff, you can do better.

00:49:58 Speaker_05
This is not This is not your Amazon warehouse or the people. Don't make them work on a door, Jeff. That was his big thing. Remember, we work on doors because we're cheap. Don't do that here.

00:50:09 Speaker_05
And you don't have to over fund this, but don't be such a, just don't behave the way you're naturally inclined to here. And maybe give these people a fucking break, because they're doing a great job.

00:50:18 Speaker_09
But let's just review a few of these purchases and purchasers and think, did this work out for him? Remember when Jared bought the Observer? Do you remember when Sam Zell bought the Tribune?

00:50:29 Speaker_04
Oh, that was a mess, yeah. He's also a jerk, but go ahead.

00:50:32 Speaker_09
Do you remember that kid, Chris Hughes, who bought the New Republic?

00:50:36 Speaker_04
He's a nice guy. Oh, that was a mess, wasn't it?

00:50:39 Speaker_09
I think Lorraine Powell Jobs has done a good job. You know her better than I do. If she could go back in time, would she buy the Atlantic again?

00:50:47 Speaker_05
I think so. I think she feels good. I think she's got some good people in play. I think she's if you had to pick one, she's the best one. But it's a small property. Right.

00:50:54 Speaker_09
Must be Twitter. I'm not sure he would do it again. He's emulated 30 billion dollars.

00:51:00 Speaker_05
I understand, but I think he loves it. He's got the attention.

00:51:03 Speaker_09
It's worth it to him because he has so much money.

00:51:05 Speaker_05
It's a good investment. It's a small investment.

00:51:07 Speaker_09
Benioff and Time, maybe, but he bought that for scrap. Yeah. I agree.

00:51:13 Speaker_05
Patrick Soon-Shiong.

00:51:15 Speaker_09
Well done, Patrick. And we have a couple friends who we really like who just bought the Daily Beast or partnered with Barry Diller. I'll be curious what they think in a year or two years. because you're trying to stem the flow of a river.

00:51:32 Speaker_09
I mean, you are swimming upstream in these traditional media companies.

00:51:35 Speaker_09
And in addition, the few times I've been in a newsroom, I've been struck about how talented these people are, how hardworking they are, and how fucking precious they think they are, and that they shouldn't be subject to the same economic realities the rest of us are.

00:51:49 Speaker_05
No, that is not true. They get it now. They have gotten it now. I don't agree. I left The Post because of that. And I think every single person in media does understand that. They do not think they're special. They think they're less than special.

00:52:00 Speaker_05
I would disagree with you on that. In any case, we'll see where it goes. Maybe Kara Swish will buy The Washington Post. That's what apparently it was written about recently.

00:52:08 Speaker_09
The way The Washington Post, it should be a group of very wealthy people who see a civic value, which the Washington Post does add, they put together a trust of multiple parties, so no one personality gets crucified.

00:52:22 Speaker_09
They get to hire and fire the guy or gal who runs it, and that's it.

00:52:28 Speaker_04
That's it.

00:52:29 Speaker_09
And if they want to raise money or if they want to sell the post, they have to come to this trust. But other than that, the trust is like a star chamber of people

00:52:38 Speaker_05
Safety in numbers, rich people, safety in numbers. And then say, have people like Karen Scott there to take the shit. We're good at it. And we can push around other reporters, you know, stuff like that.

00:52:47 Speaker_09
I'm done being on boards. I'm done.

00:52:49 Speaker_05
Oh, yes. No, I was thinking more my assistant for you. Anyway, let's bring in our friend of Pivot. Margaret Brennan is the moderator of Face the Nation and CBS's chief foreign affairs correspondent. Margaret, welcome. Thank you.

00:53:12 Speaker_05
We've brought you here because we need to calm the fuck down. We always feel good when we go on Margaret Brennan's show because you're so like even handed and Very clear and calming. So that's what your job here is. Thank you.

00:53:24 Speaker_05
I went to Catholic school in my life, so I just keep it all inside. You keep it inside and later it's all sublimated. And then rage comes out later. You know, rage eat or rage exercise or whatever. So Election Day is fast approaching.

00:53:37 Speaker_05
Do you think anything is going to change the minds of people who haven't voted yet? Everything is 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50. And I actually it seems like it is indeed this time, 50, 50.

00:53:48 Speaker_13
Right, that question, are there any unpersuaded voters left in a country that is this divided? I don't know the answer to that.

00:53:57 Speaker_13
What I can say is the fraction of the populace that I think the campaigns are most focused on are the voters who are on the line about whether or not they get in the car and they bother to go and show up on November 5th, the low propensity voter.

00:54:13 Speaker_13
Their minds might be made up, but they might feel fine just liking tweets or whatever from their couch. Whether or not they cast the vote is what particularly Democrats are concerned about.

00:54:24 Speaker_13
And that is where the campaigns are putting their emphasis, because it's going to come down to turnout in a 50-50 election and just an election potentially won on the margins, potentially here, one of the closest presidential races in history.

00:54:37 Speaker_05
So why aren't the Republicans concerned about low-propensity voters? Because, you know, there's the bro dude that doesn't get off the couch and may be, in fact, stoned. Like, you know, it's that gang who doesn't vote at all.

00:54:48 Speaker_05
Like, I know lots of those people.

00:54:50 Speaker_13
Well, what's kind of amazing, and it hit me in particular when I was out at the RNC this summer in Milwaukee, was realizing what Trump has done for his movement, not necessarily the Republican movement, which is to activate a lot of those low-propensity voters.

00:55:08 Speaker_13
You know, the folks who are not Bush Republicans, but are the Kid Rock Republicans who were loving that at the RNC, who were chanting the mass deportation now, chants with the signs.

00:55:23 Speaker_13
He has activated that, and that is that base vote that at least says they are going to show up for him, even if they didn't show up in 2022 during the down-ballot races, so congressional races where traditional Republicans were perhaps more concerned about showing up.

00:55:43 Speaker_13
And maybe that is a way of explaining why there wasn't that red wave in 2022, but there could be a different factor at play, the Trump factor himself in 2024. They love him and want to vote for him. Exactly.

00:55:57 Speaker_09
Good to see you, Margaret. So inflation, bodily autonomy, immigration, kind of the issues that have been getting the most attention is the premier issues in the media.

00:56:08 Speaker_09
Do you think there's any one of those that will play a bigger or a smaller role than expected? Or is there anything we're not talking about, the media's not talking about, that you think is going to play a bigger role?

00:56:18 Speaker_13
We see in our polling data that the economy is the number one issue. That's not surprising to me. I mean, like any country I've ever gone to and covered social unrest or political strife, it's always a kitchen table issue. So that's not surprising.

00:56:32 Speaker_13
What is surprising is the degree to which it is in Donald Trump's favor.

00:56:36 Speaker_13
and the fact that people are so frustrated with the moment they're in that they have a bit of amnesia as to what the last year and a half of the Trump administration was when the economy was shut down.

00:56:47 Speaker_13
That's surprising to me, the selective memory portion of this. In terms of factors that people are voting around or could influence the vote,

00:56:58 Speaker_13
Particularly in the past few days, I've been inundated with warnings and messages of concern about an exponential increase in attempts to manipulate the minds of voters. We need to talk about that to make the public aware.

00:57:16 Speaker_13
I don't want to over-index that and make people somehow anxiety-ridden about their votes. But the degree to which there are foreign actors trying to hack people's minds, as some U.S. officials call it,

00:57:32 Speaker_13
is of concern and may be a real factor in the confidence level in our institutions and in the process. That concerns me because that's a day after November 5th story. That's the do we see violence the 6th of November or the 6th of January question.

00:57:50 Speaker_05
Right. Once again, whether they get manipulated, they feel like it was stolen. And they've been, listen, it's been articulated by podcasters who have been paid by Russia. It's been articulated by podcasters who haven't been paid by Russia.

00:58:00 Speaker_05
Right now, there's a story up about major podcasts on The Washington Post about major podcasts that are doing election denialism on repeat, constant repeat. which is a real problem.

00:58:12 Speaker_05
In terms of early voting, over 58 million people have cast their ballots, either in person or by mail, very strong. Are there takeaways or indications how things might go from these early voting numbers?

00:58:21 Speaker_05
Now, more Republicans are now participating because Trump isn't saying not to. In terms of the gender gap, women account for roughly 55 percent of the early vote, while men are at 45 percent, according to Politico.

00:58:32 Speaker_05
Anything you're seeing, or does this seem normal, this amount of early voting, just there's more Republicans doing it?

00:58:38 Speaker_13
There are more people showing up early. There are also more states who have made that possible. So there are changes that have happened between 2020 and 2024 to just have people go and get this out of their systems before November 5th.

00:58:54 Speaker_13
That will be a factor just in terms of that early impression of the vote. You can't say which party is up or down necessarily based on this early snapshot. You just can't. Each county, each state, many places processes things in a different way.

00:59:11 Speaker_13
So it can look like a blue wave that then turns red the next day. So I'd stay away from that. But I would say, It is interesting to me to see people show up early because that would suggest they're activated, which would suggest they're not apathetic.

00:59:30 Speaker_05
Or they don't want to deal with Election Day because they're worried about violence. That's one issue I have. I'm like, oh, really? Yeah. I'm like, who knows?

00:59:37 Speaker_05
Not here where I am, I guess, but it definitely went through my brain, like what possible horrible thing could happen on Election Day.

00:59:43 Speaker_13
Yeah. I mean, that might be how my brain is wired, frankly, to worry about those scenarios.

00:59:51 Speaker_13
But I've been trying to make an effort on our program, at least lately, to turn to secretaries of state from these battlegrounds where we know are going to be so heavily litigated, like Pennsylvania.

01:00:02 Speaker_05
Yeah, and most of them are fantastic, by the way. I did an interview with Brad Raffensperger and Adrian Fontes, and it was great. And they both were the same in a lot of ways, which was fantastic in that regard. It gives you confidence. It does. It did.

01:00:13 Speaker_05
I was like, oh, phew.

01:00:16 Speaker_09
And Margaret, you've covered a lot of elections and you're in broadcast, which is struggling economically, but it's still relevant.

01:00:25 Speaker_09
How has the coverage of this election, just using it as a marker of time, how has the business of covering elections changed?

01:00:31 Speaker_09
What's different about your day-to-day job and what does it say about the state of media and how we report and shape people's views on the election?

01:00:40 Speaker_13
It's a great question, an anxiety-inducing question. I mean, there are a few different ways of answering it, but in terms of how I think about my job on Sundays, I argue and I believe that the platform we have, the hour I have on Sundays,

01:00:56 Speaker_13
is more important than ever because, first of all, every single week I have to prove to the audience that they need to continue to have faith and trust in me because I'm really concerned about the winnowing away of trust in our institutions.

01:01:11 Speaker_13
And I make journalism one of those, The Fourth Estate one of those.

01:01:15 Speaker_13
you need to be able to trust that I'm accurately reporting to you what the Secretary of State in that state is doing and that your vote was counted, for example, or during COVID when there's a mass pandemic and I can actually tell you what the CDC is saying or not.

01:01:31 Speaker_13
You need to have that faith in me. That is what motivates me and concerns me. It's also, frankly, the one way I can exert control in an environment where we don't have much over over the media environment writ large.

01:01:44 Speaker_13
I can control, comes out of my mouth and the hour I have and the territory we have and just try to amplify truth at the same time it is now expected of me as a journalist to actively negate lies, right? It's not just amplifying truth.

01:02:03 Speaker_13
It's a have to do that and then also this other job of being able to fact check on the fly. All of that environment that we are in in terms of

01:02:14 Speaker_13
information at your fingertips has changed the job that I have to do as a moderator because it's changed the politics and how politicians seek to engage.

01:02:22 Speaker_05
Right. You push back rather well, but it's still a waste of your time. You're not getting to actual things. It's frustrating. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you do it in a very classy way.

01:02:32 Speaker_05
There's so much screaming now that I find your program, I don't mean calming, but it's definitely clearheaded. Right. But it still wastes your time. I sometimes think, why does Margaret have to deal with this shit? Stop.

01:02:43 Speaker_05
Just let's let's talk about the thing. Right. So so we're not likely going to know the results election day on November 5th. That's what people think. But who knows? It could be days or weeks for a winner is determined.

01:02:55 Speaker_05
What's your sense of what will happen in terms of people challenging results? I don't know how much you have gotten out and how ugly it might get. What's your sense from doing a lot of these interviews?

01:03:05 Speaker_05
Again, I think a lot of the election officials are incredibly competent, both Republican and Democrat, especially on the ground, the really small localities. And they're trying their best, but you've got these both.

01:03:15 Speaker_05
We've got very aggressive efforts by the Trump people in legal challenges, would be my guess, if they fall behind. And obviously, Kamala Harris is going to do the same.

01:03:25 Speaker_05
You know, she's a lawyer by training, and obviously she's not going to let this one get away from her if she thinks she's won. So what do you imagine is going to happen? We've already been through one insurrection and some real ugliness.

01:03:38 Speaker_05
Where do you see it going?

01:03:40 Speaker_13
I'm really concerned. I'm really concerned about political violence.

01:03:44 Speaker_13
We see it in our polling that we do here at CBS, concern, not just if Donald Trump wins, if Donald Trump loses, like either scenario, the other party believes that there is potential for violence.

01:04:00 Speaker_13
There's some interesting data that Robert Pape, this professor at the University of Chicago, has done where he saw on the left this polling question he put was, is violence justified to prevent Donald Trump from taking office?

01:04:15 Speaker_13
And it was pretty remarkable to see the number of yeses he got to that question. So it just reflects the level of tension there is in this country where

01:04:26 Speaker_13
I've had some very concerning conversations with former officials in particular, who were involved in 2020 and saw things up close, who are warning, you know, look, this is very possible, but local police should be able to mostly handle security.

01:04:46 Speaker_13
You know, we shouldn't be back at a scenario where we're looking at 2020 like protests with violence in major cities.

01:04:54 Speaker_04
Well, they're certainly organizing.

01:04:56 Speaker_05
I've spent a lot of time recently on Facebook on the militia sites, they're quite preparing themselves. It's really, and of course, Mark's letting them go right ahead and do it.

01:05:05 Speaker_13
Well, that's, I mean, this is a story, Kara, I mean, you know the space so well, but I've been talking to officials recently about that. Like, how do you deal with the fact, like, after January 6,

01:05:19 Speaker_13
You saw Twitter and you saw Facebook then, what, try to take Donald Trump offline, or actors who were promoting violence because they saw it actually realized. All that seems to be gone. Like, there are no speed bumps there. And it's a cesspool.

01:05:36 Speaker_13
And I'm concerned when I read FBI bulletins out there warning that it's You know, it's journalists. It is poll workers. These are election workers. I talk to these secretaries of state and they've got security.

01:05:48 Speaker_13
I mean, in Maricopa County, I asked the secretary of state if they were putting snipers on the roof in Maricopa County because it was a news story in the United States of America.

01:05:59 Speaker_04
Amazing, astonishing.

01:06:00 Speaker_13
It is. And it concerns me, the information environment we are in, that there are voices who want to stoke that chaos and be chaos agents and can be, you know, amplified by bad actors.

01:06:15 Speaker_13
And so I think in terms of having a calm voice, we need to acknowledge that, we need to call it out. But it is concerning for all of us.

01:06:23 Speaker_05
Yeah, taking down the temperature. Scott, question? Margaret, where do you get your news?

01:06:28 Speaker_13
I'm a news junkie, so I'm constantly reading. I read the Journal, I read the Times, I read the Washington Post, I read Politico. Because of my time covering Wall Street, I still get some newsletters from financial analysts who I also really like.

01:06:46 Speaker_13
I like people who can bottom line things for me, so I read a lot of that. The FT. But I go to trusted journalists and journalism sources. I do have to use X as an aggregator, but I had to take myself off of it when we did the vice presidential debate.

01:07:08 Speaker_13
because of just the vitriol and the hate.

01:07:11 Speaker_05
You don't have to be on it. Trust me. I had probably had four times the amount of followers. You don't need to be on it, but that's just me. Do you use it for intake? I don't. I don't use it at all. I don't use it at all. I don't find any difference.

01:07:24 Speaker_05
I can find it on all the news organizations. You know, we didn't talk about this earlier, but Threads has grown now to 275 million. It's gotten better. And I'm not a biggest fan of Mark Zuckerberg, but it's a clean place. You know what I mean?

01:07:35 Speaker_05
It's a relatively, there's a lot of tsk-tsk on it with a lot of, on the left, but I don't mind that. They're just like, how dare you? And that's like, okay, I dare. But, but the stuff on Twitter is toxic and ugly and violent.

01:07:48 Speaker_05
So I'm not interested in, it doesn't help me or help me get more insight at all. News reporters have got to get off of it, like, right away. Like, that's my feeling. What is your plans for election night?

01:07:59 Speaker_05
There's all kinds of different ways people are getting their news, but what are you all doing? And is it, you know, again, as Scott said, the money is tight at your organization, although you've got a better new owner than others, let me say.

01:08:12 Speaker_05
I happen to know him. So, I mean, it's a low bar, but that's the facts. How are you preparing to cover it? And I assume you're assuming it's going to be a week-long thing.

01:08:22 Speaker_13
We do assume that, and in terms of allocation of resources, you still got to have reporters in the field. So we are doing that. We are going to have people in all the battlegrounds, the reporters.

01:08:33 Speaker_13
I'll be up in New York at our election studio that has been built out with all sorts of new technology to help us. explain things more.

01:08:43 Speaker_13
I think we put a lot of deliberate thought into explaining to people, for example, in a super tight race, stop paying attention to the popular vote. Let's remind people to pass the 270 electoral votes, right? Be very deliberate in reminding people.

01:08:58 Speaker_13
of the benchmarks they need to watch in the battlegrounds in particular, the seven states we're watching. So we'll be doing that.

01:09:04 Speaker_13
I'm digging into, because I'm a bit of a policy nerd, into some of the things that are at play, like the 10 states where reproductive health care initiatives are on the ballot, the degree to which that'll impact voter turnout or not.

01:09:21 Speaker_13
Digging into the economy in particular, I mean, it's amazing that I was out in Erie, Pennsylvania last weekend, and you look at Western Pennsylvania and the perception of the economy is very different than what the economic data would tell you on a national scale.

01:09:34 Speaker_13
So understanding regionally what's impacting how people feel about the country we're in right now is something I've been putting thought into. And of course, national security, the world is on fire.

01:09:45 Speaker_13
So connecting those dots is something I'm going to be trying to do. on election night with Nora O'Donnell and Maurice Dubois and John Dickerson and our whole team.

01:09:55 Speaker_05
Got a great team. And we're glad you're there, Margaret. We really are. You can catch Margaret every Sunday on CBS's Face the Nation. And she'll, of course, be part of the CBS, as she noted, election night coverage. We look forward to watching.

01:10:06 Speaker_05
Thank you for having me. I love listening to the podcast.

01:10:09 Speaker_09
Thanks, Margaret.

01:10:10 Speaker_05
All right, Scott, isn't she the best? I love Margaret Borden.

01:10:12 Speaker_09
Yeah, she is.

01:10:12 Speaker_05
She really is a pro. Total pro. Pro is how I think of her, absolutely. She just connects dots, which is why I like her. Not all these people do. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Support for Pivot comes from Netflix.

01:10:32 Speaker_05
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01:13:26 Speaker_05
OK, Scott, let's hear a prediction from you.

01:13:30 Speaker_09
Well, I don't know. Prediction, aspiration, wish. I do think that I think Vice President Harris is going to win the election. I think there's a few things that will carry her across the finish line. One,

01:13:44 Speaker_09
When I look at the attributes of mostly sexist girls, they're more organized. They are a little bit more meticulous. And I think when it comes to election day, I think a lot of young women are going to find a way to schedule time and get to the booth.

01:14:05 Speaker_09
And a lot of young men, just bottom line, as someone who's raising young men, I affectionately call them dopes. Their prefrontal cortex does not catch up until the age of 25.

01:14:17 Speaker_05
Yeah, they're not voting, right? Because they're too young.

01:14:19 Speaker_09
Well, yeah, 117, I asked him, who would you vote for? And he goes, well, I'd vote for Harris because you're voting for her. And I'm like, I hate and love that answer.

01:14:26 Speaker_04
I agree.

01:14:28 Speaker_09
Anyways, but my point is, I think that you're going to see more, I think women are motivated. Quite frankly, they're more organized. They're more meticulous. And I think

01:14:38 Speaker_09
I don't want to say they take their civic response, but they're just more organized. It's like girls do better in school. I think girls or young women are going to do better at showing up on election day.

01:14:48 Speaker_09
I bet more of them have already and I don't have the data here too. I'd like to think that young men are getting the message around a need to protect or I'd like to think that that's a theme that's resonating here that they do see that

01:15:03 Speaker_09
There is a certain level of demonization and attack for special interest groups, and I'd like to think they're stepping up. And three, and again, this might be confirmation bias.

01:15:15 Speaker_09
I'm just too emotional here, but I think this self-inflicted unforced error around Puerto Rico with four to five hundred thousand Puerto Ricans in Pennsylvania could be very, very problematic. Could be a big issue.

01:15:30 Speaker_05
And so close to the election. It really is. Yeah. So anyways.

01:15:33 Speaker_09
And again, my gut might be overridden by my emotions here, but my gut is that she's going to pull this out. That's my prediction.

01:15:41 Speaker_05
Let me just read something. I'm going to pile on to your thing. By the way, everyone should read Scott's endorsement of Kamala Harris. It's essentially, if you want to have sex, vote for, if you want to be an incel, vote for Donald Trump.

01:15:52 Speaker_05
I think I pretty much boiled that down, right? Is that correct? It's very funny.

01:15:55 Speaker_09
Lots more, and I knew this was going to happen, lots more subscribers than I've ever lost in a single day.

01:16:00 Speaker_05
Well, I think it's very funny and fun to read. I love it. It's worth it.

01:16:03 Speaker_09
What's the point of being wealthy and having people who love you if you don't speak your mind?

01:16:06 Speaker_05
I know, but it also was a really good read. I think it's a great test. Even Amanda was like, I thought, Scott, what? And then I'm like, oh, good argument, Scott. She often goes, Scott, what? And then she's like, I must give it to him in any case.

01:16:22 Speaker_05
I'll tell you, let me read this to you. Wall Street executives, political gamblers, and cryptocurrency traders are piling on their bets that former President Donald Trump is returning to the White House.

01:16:30 Speaker_05
But the stock market may be telling a different story. US stocks have been on a tear with the bellwether S&P 500 is climbing more than 10% since August.

01:16:38 Speaker_05
While the stock market is not necessarily representative of the broader economy, the S&P 100's performance in a run-up to election has historically been a strong indicator of whether the incumbent party's candidate will retain control of the White House, correctly forecasting all but four presidential races over the last 96 years.

01:16:53 Speaker_05
So interesting. So that's the actual stock market, which is very hard to mitigate. is saying, and that's the one I would test. I have one quick prediction. I went and saw, I'm interviewing the director of Wicked soon, John Chu, who I love.

01:17:07 Speaker_05
I went to see Wicked yesterday, and Amanda came with me.

01:17:09 Speaker_09
The movie Wicked?

01:17:10 Speaker_05
The movie Wicked.

01:17:11 Speaker_09
Oh, good for you.

01:17:12 Speaker_05
It is fucking spectacular. It's gonna win every Oscar, I gotta tell you. Really? One of the best.

01:17:18 Speaker_09
Who's in it?

01:17:19 Speaker_05
Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo are the main characters. I have to tell you, both of them, they are spec, it's like Barbie times two. I don't know what it is, but it has so much weight, feels very Harry Potter in a way.

01:17:35 Speaker_05
All the other characters are astonishing also around them. Michelle Yeoh, Bowen Yang is in it. There's all these astonishing characters. Jeff Goldblum. It's an amazing movie and it's substantive. It is beautiful. The costumes, the special effects.

01:17:51 Speaker_05
And at the heart, speaking of females, bringing it. Female friendship, these two. Ariana Grande blew me the frig away. Arivo is the anchor of this movie, but they are so electric together as a relationship.

01:18:06 Speaker_05
It's going to win all the Oscars, that's my prediction. Huge hit coming for Universal, I have to say. I did not expect it. I thought it would be good, because it's a good story, but it is something really fantastic, I recommend.

01:18:18 Speaker_05
It's going to be like a Taylor Swift concert for girls, and I think a lot of boys will go because it's got a Harry Potter vibe to it too. Anyway, that's our show.

01:18:25 Speaker_05
I want to mention several people reached out following our conversation last week about a mother suing character AI over her teenage son's death. A few of you pointed out a part of the story that was perhaps even more troubling. Let's listen.

01:18:38 Speaker_07
While it was an excellent critique on character AI, you failed to mention the role of the gun.

01:18:43 Speaker_12
The gun thing's a bit beyond us here outside the US, and for it to not even be part of the story really does send chills.

01:18:50 Speaker_12
Kevin Ruse's full story detailed how the parents knew prior to his death that their son was depressed, and yet his stepdad left a gun unlocked in a drawer in the home.

01:19:00 Speaker_07
Wasn't the stepfather a contributing factor in this tragedy for not properly securing the weapon in the first place?

01:19:06 Speaker_12
The story could have been about a tragic suicide attempt connected to character AI, but instead, he is dead. Parents can't monitor their kids' online activity 24-7, but they can and they must keep guns out of their children's reach at all times.

01:19:21 Speaker_05
Those clips were from Steve Sachs, Kate Darrow, and Sierra Fox, and we really appreciate it. It was a very good point to make in a terrible, terrible story, not just about AI, but about guns in this country. Thanks to everyone who called in.

01:19:36 Speaker_05
We want to always hear from you, and you're always incredibly thoughtful, most of you. So send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot.

01:19:46 Speaker_09
By the way, most is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

01:19:49 Speaker_05
Well, those are just letters to you, Scott. And I'm glad you did that endorsement, Scott. Fuck people. You know what? It was good. Go read it, everybody.

01:19:56 Speaker_09
And by the way, everyone, I just want to say, everyone who unsubscribed, full refund coming your way.

01:20:00 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's right.

01:20:01 Speaker_09
Full refund.

01:20:02 Speaker_05
And I endorse Scott Galloway. I have nothing to sell you. There you go. So you can't unsubscribe. You don't have to listen to this podcast.

01:20:07 Speaker_09
If that's right, I don't want to be right.

01:20:08 Speaker_05
Also, go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. And don't forget to send us your photos of you dressed up as me or Scott on threads.

01:20:18 Speaker_05
One last note, elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, Scott, you talked with your favorite geopolitical expert, Ian Bremmer, on Prof G this week. Really smart guy. Let's hear a quick clip.

01:20:29 Speaker_08
Well, I'm talking in part about the relationship between China and the United States. I mean, we are heading towards confrontation, but both countries are trying to avoid sudden crises.

01:20:45 Speaker_08
and ensure through a lot of high-level communication that the relationship doesn't deteriorate any faster than it needs to, and any more broadly than it needs to.

01:20:56 Speaker_08
The Americans are doing that, I think in part because we've got our hands full with a couple of different wars. and an election cycle. The Chinese are doing that because their economy is performing worse than I've ever seen it.

01:21:12 Speaker_08
Certainly since the early 90s, maybe since the 70s. I was just in Beijing a couple of weeks ago. I spent the week there and every provincial government is bankrupt.

01:21:24 Speaker_05
That's very thoughtful, from his mouth to everybody's ears. We cannot get in a war with China, any kind of war.

01:21:29 Speaker_09
Nice guy, too, more importantly. He's a good guy to have drinks with. Nice man.

01:21:33 Speaker_05
Yeah, it was a great show. It was really good. And I urge everyone to go listen to it, because Ian's smart.

01:21:39 Speaker_09
You're stressed and generous today. It's a unique cocktail I'm not used to. You are very high-strung and also generous.

01:21:44 Speaker_05
I know, what do you want? Why wouldn't I be generous? If it was shitty, I would say it was shitty, but it's not shitty. Don't be shitty, Scott, that's all. Your take on Bezos is wrong.

01:21:52 Speaker_09
That's good advice.

01:21:53 Speaker_05
on that essay was so badly written, and I'm going to go through it line by line with you. Okay, just copy editing, just copy editing.

01:21:59 Speaker_09
That sounds like torture.

01:22:00 Speaker_05
Yeah, I know, I know. My kids hate it when I do that. All right, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.

01:22:08 Speaker_09
Today's show was produced by Lara Namens, Noe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Nertat engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Severio, and Dan Shulan. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

01:22:20 Speaker_09
Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.

01:22:30 Speaker_09
We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend and take stock of the blessings of the best decision they've ever made, and that is to live and vote in America.

01:22:51 Speaker_02
What software do you use at work? The answer to that question is probably more complicated than you want it to be. The average US company deploys more than 100 apps, and ideas about the work we do can be radically changed by the tools we use to do it.

01:23:06 Speaker_02
So what is enterprise software anyway? What is productivity software? How will AI affect both? And how are these tools changing the way we use our computers to make stuff, communicate, and plan for the future?

01:23:18 Speaker_02
In this three-part special series, Decoder is surveying the IT landscape presented by AWS. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts.

01:23:28 Speaker_01
Hello, I'm Esther Perel, psychotherapist and host of the podcast, Where Should We Begin, which delves into the multiple layers of relationships, mostly romantic.

01:23:39 Speaker_01
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Tune into Housework, a special series from Where Should We Begin, sponsored by Klaviyo.