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Episode: Becoming an Inspirational Leader | Priscilla Shirer
Author: Life.Church
Duration: 00:36:45
Episode Shownotes
Why are some leaders more inspirational than others, and what sets them apart? In this episode, Priscilla Shirer shares how to become more inspirational in your leadership and communication—and how to inspire your team to change the world. Watch video and download the leader guide: https://www.life.church/leadershippodcast/becoming-an-inspirational-leader-priscilla-shirer/
https://www.life.church/leadershippodcast/becoming-an-inspirational-leader-priscilla-shirer/
Summary
In this episode, Priscilla Shirer explores the qualities that make leaders inspirational, emphasizing the importance of understanding one's influence and the responsibility that comes with it. She encourages young leaders to engage fully with their experiences, as even disappointments can serve as valuable lessons. Effective communication, particularly through storytelling, is highlighted as key to connecting with audiences. Shirer also discusses the value of supportive team members and the need for curiosity in leadership to foster growth and understanding. The episode stresses the significance of mentorship in both personal and professional development and the compassionate leadership exemplified by Jesus.
Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Becoming an Inspirational Leader | Priscilla Shirer) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_01
Zig Ziglar said to me one time, Priscilla, an audience is going to remember about 10% of what you said, 10%.
00:00:07 Speaker_01
So you are going to want to grab their attention as quickly as you can and then basically narrow down the 100% to the same 10% that you're saying in different ways over and over again for the 30 minutes that you have their attention.
00:00:23 Speaker_00
Hey, it's great to have you back for another episode of the Craig Rochelle Leadership Podcast. I sincerely feel like it is a calling for me to do my best to help you get better in your leadership. And today, I promise you that's gonna happen.
00:00:37 Speaker_00
I have a very with me today who is a world-class leader. She is a speaker, speaks at conferences in Christian circles and leadership circles around the world. She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's an actress.
00:00:53 Speaker_00
She's been in four different movies and her career is booming. in the movie industry. She is an unbelievable writer with incredible Bible studies and books. Her newest book is out. It's called, I Surrender All.
00:01:09 Speaker_00
I promise you it's a book that will help stretch you spiritually and help you grow in every way. She preached one of the best sermons that I've ever heard in history at our church. And she is with me today, Priscilla Shires.
00:01:21 Speaker_00
Great to have you on the Craig Rochelle Leadership Podcast.
00:01:23 Speaker_01
Glad to be here. It's good to see you.
00:01:25 Speaker_00
It's great to have you. Amy and I love you and your family. And you've been special friends for a long time.
00:01:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah. It's been cool to see each other through the years, different seasons of life.
00:01:34 Speaker_00
We're kind of growing up, right? Growing up a little bit. That's a nice way to say we're getting older together. So that's happening. So I want to talk leadership. And I am curious.
00:01:43 Speaker_00
One of the questions I always like to ask our guests is, when do you think you saw, maybe as a kid, high school, some point, when did you first see yourself maybe that you had leadership gifts? Thank you.
00:01:55 Speaker_01
I think the first time it maybe occurred to me a little bit, in hindsight, when I think about it, is my aunt, my mother's sister, was over the children's ministry at the church.
00:02:04 Speaker_01
And I remember there was, I don't remember what the lesson was about, but she said, Priscilla, come up here and give an illustration to the kids. And I must have been 10.
00:02:12 Speaker_01
And I remember standing up there, not sure what I was going to do, but I did something that had to do with a water balloon. We had a balloon there. I put water in it, and I did a thing. And I just remember that they were paying attention.
00:02:25 Speaker_01
And I remember thinking in that moment that this is a moment of time I've been entrusted with.
00:02:32 Speaker_01
Entrusted was the thought that I had that I have to take care of this time, that I could squander it and just say something silly, or I can actually try to use this illustration moment and this opportunity that my aunt's given me to actually do something that hopefully will matter when they go home.
00:02:47 Speaker_01
And these are five and six-year-olds. So I was trying to entertain them enough to keep them engaged, but also give them something meaty, like it had a little substance to it. So in my 10-year-old way, I did that.
00:02:57 Speaker_01
But it occurred to me I had their attention. And there were probably two dozen five and six-year-olds in this room, and they were paying attention to me.
00:03:04 Speaker_01
So the weightiness of having people that are following your leadership and that you've been entrusted with that, it did occur to me, not in those words, but it occurred to me at 10 years old that I had the capacity
00:03:17 Speaker_01
to take someone's time, take somebody's attention, and either squander it or utilize it for something valuable.
00:03:22 Speaker_00
That's really powerful to think about being 10 years of age and then, first of all, recognizing maybe that you have a gift to communicate and that people do pay attention to you and that you have influence.
00:03:34 Speaker_00
And so one of the things, Priscilla, I always try to tell people, they may say, well, I'm not a leader because I don't have a title or I don't have a leadership role. And I always say, you have influence, right? You have influence. You have influence.
00:03:45 Speaker_00
All of us do. Leadership is influence. And so you recognize that. And at the same time, you realize there was a responsibility to it. There's a weight to it.
00:03:55 Speaker_03
Yes.
00:03:56 Speaker_00
And a lot of people today, I think, want to be a leader, want to be an influencer, without understanding the responsibility that comes with it. Can you tell me a little bit about the weight side?
00:04:08 Speaker_01
Yes. And I want to answer that question, but I want to back up too and say there's something I recognize in hindsight that was very key and pivotal about someone else recognizing in me what I would not have noted in myself. Tell me about it.
00:04:22 Speaker_01
It's almost like every, to put a biblical illustration to it, every Joshua needs a Moses to say, oh, you're the one that can lead.
00:04:30 Speaker_01
And we don't have any record in the scripture of Joshua being prepared for it or strategizing for it or thinking he was the one that would lead, but there was a Moses who saw it in him.
00:04:40 Speaker_01
So in hindsight, I kind of see it's like, oh, if my aunt wouldn't have given me the opportunity and said, you can handle this, I probably wouldn't have recognized it in myself at all.
00:04:48 Speaker_00
So she saw something in you. Yeah. And I think- Even at 10 years of age, you're ready for it. That's right.
00:04:53 Speaker_01
And so then partnering ourselves with people who have that kind of spiritual insight, maybe, or in leadership, that business acumen to see leadership potential around them, and they're willing to develop it and not be intimidated by it.
00:05:06 Speaker_00
So everyone needs someone like your aunt who does take a risk. And a lot of times, we're waiting on that. Would someone believe in me? Would someone affirm me? And at the same time, we need to be that for someone else.
00:05:17 Speaker_01
Totally.
00:05:18 Speaker_00
That's exactly right. That we need to see in others maybe what they don't see in themselves, and put them in a place where maybe they don't feel fully prepared, and then they can have that kind of— That's been my whole life, yes. Right.
00:05:29 Speaker_00
And that's a great place to be. Yeah. Always slightly out of your comfort zone.
00:05:34 Speaker_01
That's exactly right.
00:05:35 Speaker_00
Yeah. How do you earn the trust of people that may not want to be led?
00:05:40 Speaker_01
That is a very good question.
00:05:44 Speaker_01
Gosh, I feel like I'm going to be redundant in saying it, but I feel like if they're not seeing you actually live out what it is that you're saying to them or trying to communicate to them, if they're seeing such drastic disparities, not that you're not vulnerable and authentic and
00:05:59 Speaker_01
you know, saying I'm sorry when you make the mistake. It's not that. It's them seeing you be fully human, but also at the same time, they see you having a standard that matches up with what you've been saying.
00:06:10 Speaker_01
I think that's how you earn people's trust, and that it doesn't just happen over the course of a year. But over the course of different seasons of life, as you go through the ups and downs, you have a certain level of sameness, consistency.
00:06:24 Speaker_01
That's how you earn people's trust, because you can talk till you're blue in the face. But what you're actually doing is what will make people decide whether or not they're going to believe you.
00:06:32 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's so true. There's a study, and I wish I could cite the source. It's one of the famous researchers. And we'll link to it in the show notes, because I'd like to give them credit. But they looked at different traits of inspirational leaders.
00:06:46 Speaker_00
And most people think they would say, like, they would see you, if someone's never heard you speak, you're one of the most inspirational, charismatic leaders anywhere. And so they think, well, we've got to be like Priscilla.
00:06:56 Speaker_00
And then they think, well, I'm not like Priscilla. And what the study showed, there's actually 33 different traits of inspirational leaders, and one of the traits was consistency. Another one of them is empathy, like just listening to people.
00:07:09 Speaker_00
Another one of them is just being kind of other-centered and empowering people. One of them is coming in and serving or sacrificing. So they go through this whole list of 33 different traits.
00:07:21 Speaker_00
The most important and standout trait above all of them is what they call centeredness.
00:07:27 Speaker_00
that you don't have to be a great speaker, you don't have to be organized, you don't have to, but if you're centered, and I think that's another way of saying if you have integrity, that that is the most inspirational trait of leaders, is to be centered.
00:07:42 Speaker_00
Can you talk to maybe some newer leaders right now? And it's easy to want to kind of fast track leadership, and we want to rise to the top, and genuine with good hearts. Talk to me about what do we do early
00:07:56 Speaker_00
to put our roots in deep so that we are centered in people of true integrity.
00:08:01 Speaker_01
Yeah. I think I would definitely say to value the process, that the process is necessary. Not only does it matter, it's actually necessary.
00:08:11 Speaker_01
the character you're going to need to sustain you where you're going, you have not developed the backbone of that character unless you've gone through the process required. One step leads to the next step. It's necessary to get you to the next step.
00:08:23 Speaker_01
And we do have in our fast-paced, you know, instant gratification culture, we do have a lot of that desire to just skip over the process and get right to the benefit.
00:08:35 Speaker_01
And then you see a lot of people imploding because they have not gotten the structure that the process would have built in them. So just to honor the process that where you are right now actually matters, and to maximize where you are right now.
00:08:52 Speaker_01
that many of us have, and for different reasons, but looking back on a season of our life where we wish we would have milked that a little bit more.
00:09:00 Speaker_01
Instead of trying to hurry through it, there were relationships we should have paid attention to back then. There was investment we should have made in ourselves back then or in others. There were bridges we should have been building.
00:09:11 Speaker_01
There were skills we should have been learning. There's a whole bunch of things, but because we're trying to get to the next thing, we miss out on the beauty and the value of the thing we're in.
00:09:20 Speaker_01
And then you get out of the season and you look back and realize, golly, there was a whole bunch for me to glean back there that now is a requirement here, and I don't have it because I raced through it.
00:09:30 Speaker_01
So I think just pausing as a young leader, pausing and saying, okay,
00:09:34 Speaker_01
God has entrusted me with where I am right now, the people, the circumstances, the cubicle I sit in, the one-bedroom apartment that I have, the beginnings of this entrepreneurial endeavor that I'm investing in.
00:09:47 Speaker_01
Okay, here's what He's given me, the money that I have, the ideas, whatever. What am I going to do to milk this season for everything that it has? What strategic implementation am I going to make sure that I am walking in right now?
00:10:01 Speaker_01
What mentors can I put in place that will speak some sense into me to help me to see things I cannot see that are valuable here so that when I get out of the season, because the season is going to change probably sooner than you think,
00:10:12 Speaker_01
When I get out of it, I won't look back with regret that I missed stuff. But I'll look back and say, no, I got everything I was supposed to get there. And then I'll have some substance to carry me through the next season.
00:10:22 Speaker_00
Can you take me back to early in your leadership process? And what was something that was painful that you experienced that actually turned out to be really helpful to you as a leader? Hey, Craig here.
00:10:35 Speaker_00
We'll get back to the episode in just a minute, but I wanted to first of all share a resource that I think you'll find helpful to your leadership. There's a secret that I've learned about leadership, and we know it.
00:10:45 Speaker_00
The best leaders are almost always the best readers. Why? Because your influence and impact are in many ways a result of the books and ideas that you take in.
00:10:56 Speaker_00
So as I look back over my years of leadership, there are 44 books that rise to the top as books that I believe that every leader should read. So our team has curated the list and organized it into the areas that you'll want to grow in.
00:11:11 Speaker_00
To get this free list, go to life.church slash 44 books. That's the number four and four, life.church slash 44 books. And I hope this will be a gift to you to dig into a list of great books. Get reading and keep leading. Now, back to the episode.
00:11:30 Speaker_01
Well, I went into college thinking I was going to be a news anchor. That was the goal. I wanted to go into broadcast journalism and was willing to pay my dues to do it. Like, I'd go to Podunk, Nevada and start out in broadcasting. That's what you do.
00:11:44 Speaker_01
So I went to school and was planning on doing that. After I graduated from school, I had a couple of jobs, little independent contractor jobs that I was given at a couple shows. And as soon as they hired me, the shows would be canceled.
00:11:58 Speaker_01
They wouldn't want me to do it anymore. It was just disappointing. I'm in my early 20s. I'm devastated. My self-esteem is shot. Any opportunity that I seemed to get went away quickly.
00:12:09 Speaker_01
So when you're just starting out and nothing's working out, it really does feel like a huge life crisis. Fast forward seven or eight years, the Lord's sort of changing my course a little bit.
00:12:23 Speaker_01
And I don't know this until hindsight, but He's shutting doors and opening others intentionally. So I get to this place where I'm recording the very first Bible study series now of 14 of them that I've done.
00:12:39 Speaker_01
The very first time I stood in front of a three-camera shoot with an audience in front of me to film this Bible study, the producer of the shoot came up to me, I think I was 28.
00:12:48 Speaker_01
He came up to me and he said, he began to give me tips and advice for relating to these cameras, tally lights, and making sure you're still relating to this audience. As he's talking to me, I'm thinking, everything you're saying, I already know.
00:13:05 Speaker_01
And it's one of the... handful of times in my life that the Lord has spoken so clearly to me, it was almost like he was in the next seat. And he said all of those years were about today, that that was not a waste, it mattered for right now.
00:13:21 Speaker_01
And so now I've spent the past 25 years basically in front of cameras doing what those formative, disappointing, hard years were actually teaching me and preparing me for.
00:13:32 Speaker_00
So I don't want to talk about me, because this is- Please talk about you. But when you say that, I immediately think back, and this is almost embarrassing to say, but as a young kid, I did magic shows. I can so see that.
00:13:45 Speaker_00
The fact that you can see it is kind of embarrassing, right? But I was 13, 14 years old and doing professional magic shows. That's great. And then I started my own tennis camp, and I learned how to manage employees, and had a little business going.
00:13:59 Speaker_00
Then I got into rental homes, and I got into sales before I could be a manager. ministry. And I look back, and I didn't really love any of those seasons. And then I say, oh, OK, I learned how to be in front of people. And I learned how to lead people.
00:14:11 Speaker_00
And I learned how to actually pitch an idea. And then I became radically changed. And now I can take some of those things, and they all work together for what I do today.
00:14:21 Speaker_00
And so I can just imagine people right now, someone going, I don't really like where I am. And they may be where they are now because there's something you need to learn in the season.
00:14:30 Speaker_01
That's exactly right.
00:14:30 Speaker_00
That's going to be valuable.
00:14:31 Speaker_01
And I'm telling that to my three boys now. I've got 21-year-old, 19, and 15. And even as they struggle through the transitions that happen in those seasons of life, I'm telling them that this is it. Like, this matters right here.
00:14:42 Speaker_01
Whatever God's getting ready to do with you at 25 and at 30 and 32, it's connected to this. So milk it, like who are the coaches that are coaching your team?
00:14:50 Speaker_01
They're your people, the Lord's connecting you with them and some teammates or professors or encounters you'll have or things you'll learn or little sayings that will mark your heart. Write those things down.
00:15:00 Speaker_01
All of those things are part of the process that the Lord is strategically allowing you to encounter so that you can be prepared for what he created you for.
00:15:09 Speaker_00
So good. So just for fun, I want to hear maybe some of the advice that that guy gave you about presenting. You don't have to be a charismatic speaker to lead people. You do not have to at all.
00:15:22 Speaker_00
But you're going to lead meetings, or you're going to pitch ideas, you're going to come in and say, hey, we could do this together, and you're going to cast a vision for something.
00:15:29 Speaker_00
Becoming the best you can be with your guests to inspire people, or to communicate an idea, or to sell an idea, or to even listen and have empathy. Can you tell me what you learned from him or on your own?
00:15:43 Speaker_00
If we're in front of a group of people and want to connect with them when we're talking, what are some of the things that stand out for good communication?
00:15:52 Speaker_01
Great question. The top thing that comes to my mind is illustration. People remember stories. I remember Zig Ziglar, who really was like a grandfather to me.
00:16:03 Speaker_01
I look back on that now and realize the value of that, that he paid attention to me and cared deeply about my life in personal ways.
00:16:11 Speaker_01
Like even when I was meeting my husband, he was looking up and down at Jerry like, come over here, let me talk to you real quick. And Zig Ziglar said to me one time, Priscilla, an audience is going to remember about 10% of what you said, 10%.
00:16:24 Speaker_01
So you are going to want to grab their attention as quickly as you can, and then basically narrow down the 100% to the same 10% that you're saying in different ways over and over again for the 30 minutes that you have their attention.
00:16:37 Speaker_01
because they're only going to remember 10% and story is part of how they will remember it.
00:16:41 Speaker_01
So incubate the point that you want to make in a beautiful story or illustration or some sort of picture that you can create in their mind and it becomes an incubator for the principle.
00:16:52 Speaker_01
Then they'll take the principle home because it's wrapped in a story that was personal to you or that grabs them at some intersection in their life where everybody can sort of relate to that. So the power of illustration.
00:17:03 Speaker_01
I would also say, and by the way, there's one other thing I wanna say, but I will say, take seriously, I keep a ongoing list of potential illustrations. I don't know where they're going.
00:17:16 Speaker_00
I don't know if I'm gonna use it in a book or if I'm gonna use it- But you said that to me right before we came here because we were talking about the fact that I'm colorblind.
00:17:23 Speaker_01
Oh yeah, that's right.
00:17:24 Speaker_00
And you said- That's right, I said- There's a potential illustration.
00:17:27 Speaker_01
There is, and I don't know exactly in the moment how it would be an illustration or what it would be for, but anything like that, I will just, I've got on my phone a little notes section, and it's down to number 200 and something, and I'll just write down a saying that I saw or something funny my boy said or conversation I had with Pastor Craig, and I write that down.
00:17:46 Speaker_01
And then at some point, all of this fodder becomes very useful tools for messages that I'm creating or chapters that I'm writing. It's all very valuable.
00:17:58 Speaker_01
The second thing I would say for someone that wants to communicate effectively is, and this is something, again, I learned from Mr. Ziegler, is you need to record yourself talking for a minute, one minute.
00:18:08 Speaker_01
You need to see what you're doing with your hands. You need to see the distracting thing you do with your eyes.
00:18:13 Speaker_01
You need to see the tendency that you have to do something that it's natural to you, so you don't know it's distracting until you look back at it.
00:18:21 Speaker_01
and then you need to train yourself away from whatever that propensity is we all have with our hands or with our heads or whatever, that to someone else would be a complete distraction away from the point of what you're saying, but you don't know it till you get up the courage to look at yourself.
00:18:35 Speaker_00
That's so true. For me, it was put down the box. I would talk like this, and Amy said early on, she said, put the box down, because my hand's like that. And then we also have catch phrases.
00:18:47 Speaker_00
that we say over and over and over again, and you never know you're saying them until you watch it, or someone is kind enough to tell you, stop saying that over and over again.
00:18:56 Speaker_01
And you know, that minute training ground too, and this is a lesson I remember from Bishop T.D. Jakes.
00:19:04 Speaker_01
He said that he would make himself talk for one minute to describe something, a microphone, a pair of jeans, some tennis shoes, and he would have to describe it for one minute without using the same descriptor twice.
00:19:18 Speaker_01
It sounds simple until you start trying to talk about something and use adjectives to describe it for 60 whole seconds, and you cannot repeat them.
00:19:26 Speaker_01
And he would train himself to do it until he could talk for a minute about something, describe it, and not use any of the same words.
00:19:33 Speaker_00
I've never heard that about him. It not only does not surprise me, but it makes sense. Because when you listen to him describe something, there's texture. It's almost like you can feel it, see it, hear it. You're there. All the senses are engaged.
00:19:50 Speaker_00
Absolutely. You did the same thing. You told a story about a house that you went in and described it in the most intimate detail about this amazing house. But once you got in, you weren't allowed to. Couldn't touch anything.
00:20:07 Speaker_00
And then tied it to an illustration that was quite profound, that we'll often maybe let Jesus into our lives, but not let him touch certain parts. 10 years from now, if you ask me, what did Priscilla talk about, I will remember that.
00:20:23 Speaker_01
That story, yeah.
00:20:25 Speaker_00
So that's really powerful. When it comes to leading people, we're going to come in and cast vision about where we're going to go. When you're looking for people to go with you, what are the top qualities you want when selecting team members?
00:20:42 Speaker_01
That they want to be a part of a team. And are they not just OK with, but are they excited about being number two? And that doesn't mean in value. That just means in position. Are they actually trying to do exactly what I'm trying to do?
00:21:00 Speaker_01
We don't need another person that does exactly what I'm doing. We actually need someone that enjoys and is eager to support that. It is so hard to find someone who loves and is eager to be the number two.
00:21:16 Speaker_01
and finds great value in it and finds their placement there and a calling there. And I was talking to my oldest son even recently.
00:21:24 Speaker_01
He is a quiet, strong, he has no ability to be on, no capacity and desire rather, to be on a stage, standing in front of people, talking. He didn't want to be up front at all.
00:21:35 Speaker_01
And I said to him just recently, do you realize how valuable you're going to be to some ministry or company or business where they've got the person that is going to be the face in front.
00:21:45 Speaker_01
They need somebody who's got wisdom, strength, integrity, and wants to be behind that person and is not trying to take that spot. That's one of the main things we look for. If someone calls and says, I want to do what Priscilla does.
00:21:57 Speaker_01
Can I come work at y'all's ministry? We know that's probably not the person because we don't need another one of that, not at our ministry. There might be others that need that or companies that need a face.
00:22:07 Speaker_01
But for what we're doing, what we're looking for is someone that actually finds great joy and pride in supporting that, and doesn't feel diminished by it.
00:22:14 Speaker_00
And you're absolutely right, that it is not second to value. No, no. So in our organization, we have 45 different campus pastors.
00:22:22 Speaker_00
And so a campus pastor would be responsible for a local congregation, for shepherding the people, and then leading the staff. And what we found is you can have someone that, without the right person on their side, they are not nearly as capable.
00:22:39 Speaker_00
Totally. And so you might have someone who's really good with people and a good communicator, but they're not good systematically. And so without the right pairing, that person struggles, yes. Or the opposite.
00:22:54 Speaker_00
Maybe you've got someone who's really organized and meticulous, but they don't know how to show empathy. And so we don't just look at the leader, but we look at who we pair them with. That's great.
00:23:05 Speaker_00
And those things can create, together, what's like leadership magic. And without it, it's, in fact, if anyone ever looks at what I do and say, Craig's good at whatever, the truth of the matter is, Craig's not good at much at all. Like, hardly at all.
00:23:20 Speaker_00
It's the people. It's the people around. It's the team. It's everything. Everything, everything, everything, everything, all the time. And generally speaking,
00:23:29 Speaker_00
I will listen to their opinions often more than my own because I surround myself with people who are smarter in their areas. And so that matters so, so much. Yeah, it really does. Yeah.
00:23:38 Speaker_00
So in this season of your leadership, what is the most challenging thing that you're doing right now that you're saying? I get up and look at this and go, this is actually a hard, hard part of leadership.
00:23:47 Speaker_01
A hard part of leadership. I think I love being alone. I am, I have, I think, again, it's The older I've gotten, solitude is more and more attractive. But you have to be present. You have to be with the people. You can't always lead from a distance.
00:24:09 Speaker_01
That the momentum you need, the synergy that you need, I think physical presence is necessary to keep that synergy gelled together. And I could just sort of be a silo and be very content in that way.
00:24:23 Speaker_01
But I do think Jerry and I have to be present with, we just have a small group of young ladies that work with our ministry, but to not be physically present. And we work a lot from home. They're working in the office, or sometimes they're from home.
00:24:37 Speaker_01
They're working from home. And in our virtual society, that's what's happening. A lot of people are just working from home.
00:24:42 Speaker_01
So to kind of make sure that it is a priority to be present with them physically, I think that's one of the biggest challenges, because we could just all be in our silos and be very content that way.
00:24:52 Speaker_00
So I take it you're an introvert.
00:24:53 Speaker_01
Well, I'm an introvert that has extrovert tendencies. Like, people don't drain me. I know introverts are folks like being with people actually drains you. So that's not true. I enjoy being with people, but I am fueled by solitude. What does that make me?
00:25:10 Speaker_00
That probably makes you an introvert. Does it? Yeah, I think so. So that introvert that if you refuel,
00:25:15 Speaker_00
by yourself, generally speaking, that means either you're an introvert or you're kind of in the middle and being in the public eye drains you and you need the retreat.
00:25:26 Speaker_01
So do you think that you can change in different seasons of your life?
00:25:29 Speaker_00
I think I am off the charts extroverted. But yet, only because maybe I would be in the public some, I now enjoy retreat more than I did in the past.
00:25:44 Speaker_00
But I still, even in retreat, I like to be with people that I really know and love and trust and to be re-energized. So it's more of a selective extrovertedness, but alone. And so in that, let's say you're kind of balanced.
00:26:01 Speaker_00
Let's say you're kind of in the middle. I'm asking this because I've got a lot of introverted leaders out there, and they say, I don't know. How do I do it? If being with people is let's say, draining to someone.
00:26:14 Speaker_00
It's not maybe draining to you, but it takes hard work. Maybe you're coming off a long tour, and you're pretty exhausted, and you don't want to go on that day, but you know you have to go in.
00:26:23 Speaker_00
What do you say to yourself to where you're not putting on a show, but you're truly valuing people? What goes through your mind to still lead people and love people well when maybe you don't feel it that day?
00:26:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. I think that the main thing for me is I really do view every opportunity to be with a group of people as an assignment. To go back to my little 10-year-old self, it's been entrusted to me. Time is something they won't get back.
00:26:54 Speaker_01
Money you can spend and you can earn it back. But the time, once it's gone, it's gone. So that is one of the things I will remind myself of, that these folks came.
00:27:03 Speaker_01
And so I need to value their time enough to pay attention, whether it's one-on-one or whether it's a group of people like we got to speak to today, that it is an assignment and it's been entrusted to me.
00:27:14 Speaker_01
So am I going to squander this and look back on it in regret, or am I going to utilize this opportunity to give them what it is that hopefully the Lord will allow me to give to them. But also, am I going to glean from it?
00:27:26 Speaker_01
I'm the one missing out, too, if I don't bring my whole self. So that'll be something that I kind of remind myself of, that it's not just an accidental moment.
00:27:34 Speaker_00
Well, it shows that you care for people. And I'm going to ask you a leading question, because I think you're really good at this. We sat down for dinner. Amy was with us. And I was so excited to ask you questions.
00:27:45 Speaker_00
And I could hardly get a question in, because you were asking good questions. And it was kind of frustrating, because I wanted to ask you a question. But you took the lead, and you were asking questions.
00:27:56 Speaker_00
Why do you do that, and how important is that in good leadership and in just relationships?
00:28:00 Speaker_01
Man, I am a curious person. And I learn more because of curiosity than because I'm smart or have studied a lot. It's because I'm very curious about people whose lives are different than mine.
00:28:15 Speaker_01
that don't, in some instances, not necessarily with us, but in some instances, people that are totally polar opposite of the way maybe I've chosen to raise my kids or the path they've taken or our political preferences are completely different.
00:28:28 Speaker_01
I take it as an opportunity for me to ask them why they think the way they think, or lessons that they've learned along the way, or things that they maybe would do differently. Because in doing that, I grow.
00:28:38 Speaker_01
I expand my vision of or my view of how to relate better to people. I expand my perspective on realizing that actually all of us are a little tunnel vision, that we all have a tendency to think our way is the right way.
00:28:53 Speaker_01
And just because they're doing it differently does not make them wrong. It just makes them different. So we have so much to learn.
00:29:00 Speaker_01
And I probably, it might be a little bit of a cop out, too, because I know if I'm asking the questions that it takes the pressure off of me to have to think about responses and answers.
00:29:10 Speaker_01
But I just enjoy seeing how other people live and what their experiences are. It's just intriguing to me.
00:29:16 Speaker_00
I think to lead a broad range of people, if you want to lead people just like you, you can. But your leadership's always going to be limited. I think to truly have broad impact You have to listen to people. You have to understand. I really like to work.
00:29:32 Speaker_00
I have some pretty strong personal beliefs. You have to work hard to get them out of me, because I'm not going to lead with politics or things like that.
00:29:43 Speaker_00
But I like to work really hard to understand why someone who's going to think completely differently than me, understand why, and then get to the point where I could say, if I was born where they were born, and raised like they were raised, and saw what they saw, I could see thinking like that.
00:29:59 Speaker_00
And I think if you cannot do that, you can't lead broadly. Agreed. Completely.
00:30:04 Speaker_01
And I think one of the... negative aspects, I guess, of the social media culture that we have is we don't seem to leave margin and room for people that think differently than us. We tear them down. We cancel them.
00:30:17 Speaker_01
We talk negatively about if we associate with them or celebrate something that we do appreciate about their achievements or their accomplishments.
00:30:26 Speaker_01
We celebrate that, and we are canceled because we've celebrated them because they're different than us in another way. I'm only supposed to be friends with or celebrate people that are just like me? What a narrow way to live.
00:30:38 Speaker_00
Speaking of that, Amy and I were talking about parenting, and we grew up with a kind of really strong philosophy of parenting. And thankfully, our kids turned out okay and generally good.
00:30:52 Speaker_00
But I recognize that I genuinely think that philosophies of parenting don't matter as much as just engaged parents. You are totally right.
00:31:03 Speaker_00
We could have totally different educational approaches, or they don't watch TV ever, or they only read this kind of whatever. But I think after all these years looking back going, you know what?
00:31:14 Speaker_00
Some of our philosophies were probably kind of dumb, but being engaged really matters a lot.
00:31:19 Speaker_01
Thank God that His grace is sufficient for our dumb seasons.
00:31:22 Speaker_00
That's right. That's right. Your book, I Surrender All, you've written so many, you said 14 Bible studies that have been changing lives forever. And when you write a book, it's a calling. Tell me about I Surrender All.
00:31:38 Speaker_01
I Surrender All is really a message to Christians, people who are believers, they've accepted Jesus, but they really haven't fully surrendered to him because they're not the same thing.
00:31:48 Speaker_01
Salvation is free, but discipleship really does come with a cost. It means that you are taking the areas of your life that really all of us want to do what we want to do. body wants. We want to do what we think is right.
00:32:03 Speaker_01
We want to appease the peer group that we have. But when we feel or sense the Holy Spirit saying, let go of that or stand alone so that you can stand up for truth, it's going to cost you. It's going to cost you friendships.
00:32:16 Speaker_01
It's going to cost you peer groups. It's going to cost you a lot of comfort sometimes. Are we willing to do that? Are we willing to go where he says go? And I mean, even as I was writing it,
00:32:27 Speaker_01
And even now, there are some areas of my life where I recognize I haven't really surrendered all, you know? And so it is just a call to the church or to Christians to reconsider whether or not they're actually disciples.
00:32:42 Speaker_01
And it's a reminder that discipleship matters, meaning that one-on-one connection where there is a person that is actually calling you up, and not just in your faith, but in the marketplace.
00:32:55 Speaker_01
Are you seeing what it looks like as a businessman, from another businessman who's 10 years ahead of you, or businesswoman that's 10 years ahead of you, what it means to lead with integrity, what it means to manage people,
00:33:06 Speaker_01
what it means to steward finances appropriately. If there's nobody to show you what it looks like to do those practical things—motherhood, fatherhood—if you don't have somebody that's willing to open up their life to you, that's what discipleship is.
00:33:19 Speaker_01
Come walk with me. Come see the mistakes I've made, the things I would do differently, the good choices I've made. Let me help to steward you as you're walking the path I've already walked.
00:33:29 Speaker_01
that bit of discipleship has been lost a little bit too, with just the broadness of churches are big, communities are big, we're spread out. It used to be people live next door to each other. We went over to eat dinner at each other's house.
00:33:41 Speaker_01
Now everybody's spread out. So if we're not intentional about finding someone that we can disciple, or as a younger person, And again, I say young, not just in age, but young in whatever process you're starting out in.
00:33:53 Speaker_01
I need a married couple who's 10 years ahead of me that I can say now, what did y'all do when y'all got to year 20 and you wanted to call it quits? There's gotta be somebody willing to listen and somebody willing to teach you.
00:34:04 Speaker_00
And again, you asked too many questions I couldn't ask you, so thank you for that. So the book is I Surrender All, and I appreciate your heart to serve the rest of us by writing that.
00:34:15 Speaker_00
And we're unapologetically followers of Jesus, and I'm really honored to speak to a community broader than that on this podcast.
00:34:22 Speaker_00
We've got people from different faith backgrounds, people that would agree wholeheartedly with following Jesus, and others that might be kind of kicking the tires.
00:34:33 Speaker_00
without necessarily preaching just what you believe, I'm curious, as a follower of Jesus, how does that make your leadership better?
00:34:46 Speaker_01
It makes me compassionate. You mentioned being a follower of Jesus. His example was that the people that were around him that were overlooked by others, talked about, discarded. Those were actually the people that he paid the most attention to.
00:35:07 Speaker_01
He zeroed in on them and he cared about their story and he did not judge them for it. He gave them grace and he welcomed them. I think that's one of the most important examples of what leadership looks like.
00:35:20 Speaker_01
It looks like keeping my eyes open for the people that are being overlooked or intentionally marginalized and saying, I got you. I got you.
00:35:29 Speaker_01
There's something of value in you that matters to this team, that matters to this church, that matters to this business.
00:35:35 Speaker_00
We need you. To be clear, we know that God sent Jesus to save the world.
00:35:42 Speaker_03
Yeah.
00:35:43 Speaker_00
And so that's His calling. But when you look at Him through the eyes of a leadership lens, what you see is He selected people that others overlooked. He did. And He trained them kind of with
00:35:53 Speaker_00
kingdom values, and he trusted them, he empowered them, he delegated to them. He did. And so there's a lot of really good leadership principles. Not only do we believe he's king, I also see him as a leader.
00:36:06 Speaker_01
Did you write that book yet about Jesus as a leader?
00:36:09 Speaker_00
I have not written that book yet.
00:36:10 Speaker_01
Well, come on. We're all waiting.
00:36:14 Speaker_00
Speaking of finding out more about you, if our audience wants to find out more about you and your work and your ministry and your leadership, where do they go?
00:36:23 Speaker_01
Well, our ministry is called Going Beyond Ministries. So if you just go to goingbeyond.com, there we are.
00:36:29 Speaker_00
Goingbeyond.com. And the book is called I Surrender All. Yes, sir. We're fans and we're friends and super thankful for you. I encourage you to pick up the book, I Surrender All.
00:36:44 Speaker_00
And if you wanna be inspired, if you wanna be spiritually stretched, Priscilla is, it's worth reading and listening to everything that she writes and says. And I just wanna say to you, thank you for being here.
00:36:57 Speaker_00
faithful part of our leadership community. I work really, really hard to bring great gifts to you and great content that will help you grow in your leadership. If you're not getting the leader guide, be sure and get that.
00:37:06 Speaker_00
Go to life.church slash leadership podcast. We'll send it to you with the release of each episode. If you enjoyed this and it's helpful, post on it and tag me, tag Priscilla, and our teams may repost you as well.
00:37:18 Speaker_00
We wanna help everybody grow in their leadership and so expanding and inviting others to be a part means a lot to me. Guess what? You helped us get better today, and that's a gift. And we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better.
00:37:31 Speaker_00
Thank you, Priscilla.
00:37:32 Speaker_01
Thank you.