Ask Code Switch: Is it a preference or fetish? AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Code Switch

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Ask Code Switch: Is it a preference or fetish?) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Go to PodExtra AI's podcast page (Code Switch) to view the AI-processed content of all episodes of this podcast.

Code Switch episodes list: view full AI transcripts and summaries of this podcast on the blog

Episode: Ask Code Switch: Is it a preference or fetish?

Author: NPR
Duration: 00:13:29

Episode Shownotes

This week on Ask Code Switch, when it comes to race and dating, how important is diversity in your dating history? What does the race of our past romances say about us? And how do we know when we've crossed the line from preference to fetish?Learn more about sponsor message

choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Summary

In this episode of Code Switch, titled 'Ask Code Switch: Is it a preference or fetish?', the hosts discuss the dynamic of interracial relationships, focusing on the interplay between racial preferences and potential fetishization. They emphasize the importance of open dialogue, self-reflection, and understanding personal values in navigating attraction and dating histories. The conversation covers strategies for approaching sensitive topics around race and love, advocating for respect and kindness in these discussions while critically examining one's motivations and relationship dynamics.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Ask Code Switch: Is it a preference or fetish?) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_02
This message comes from Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to mintmobile.com slash switch.

00:00:16 Speaker_04
So you know, this episode has language that's PG-13. So if you're playing this on your speakers in the office, maybe save it for later.

00:00:27 Speaker_04
Hey y'all, I'm Lori Lizarraga and this is Ask Codeswitch, the show where we tackle your stickiest, trickiest questions about race and identity. And this week's question comes from a listener about race and dating preferences in her new romance.

00:00:44 Speaker_01
Hi Codeswitch, this is Nicole G. calling in with a question. I've been casually seeing a guy for a few months now. For reference, I'm white, he's black, and we're polyamorous. I've briefly met his other partners, and they are both also white women.

00:01:01 Speaker_01
This struck me as a little odd since we both live in a major city that is multiracial. I've met some of his friends, and that group was diverse.

00:01:09 Speaker_01
I'm currently at a point in my life where I want to make sure I'm actually living my values, including challenging my whiteness and what comes with that.

00:01:17 Speaker_01
I want to ask him about it, but I also don't want to seem like I'm questioning his racial identity or trying to minimize his life or choices as a black man. I also don't know his entire dating history, so maybe he just has a type as of late?

00:01:31 Speaker_01
Any advice on navigating this conversation?

00:01:36 Speaker_04
Introducing a romantic partner to the intimacies in your past or present can be daunting in any new relationship, but it's a conversation definitely worth having. This isn't about grading the diversity in someone's dating history.

00:01:52 Speaker_04
It's about whether our desires and attractions are a reflection of our ethics and values. What does the race of our romantic partners really say about us? When it comes to having a type, is there a wrong answer? That's today on Ask Codeswitch.

00:02:11 Speaker_04
We'll be right back.

00:02:16 Speaker_02
Support for the following message come from LinkedIn ads. With LinkedIn ads, you can reach professionals relevant to your business.

00:02:23 Speaker_02
Target them by job title, industry, company, and more by launching your next campaign with a free $100 ad credit at linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. Support for the following message come from LinkedIn ads.

00:02:38 Speaker_02
With LinkedIn ads, you can reach professionals relevant to your business. Target them by job title, industry, company, and more by launching your next campaign with a free $100 ad credit at linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply.

00:02:53 Speaker_00
This message comes from NPR sponsor, Viore. Jump into a new perspective on performance apparel. Viore makes products that stand the test of time and hope to inspire others to live vibrant, healthy lives.

00:03:06 Speaker_00
Empowering your best life in clothing that can be worn for just about any activity from running to yoga. Visit viore.com slash NPR to receive 20% off your first purchase and enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75.

00:03:21 Speaker_00
Discover the versatility of Viore clothing.

00:03:44 Speaker_04
I'm Lori, this is Ask Codeswitch. Okay, today's question comes from our listener, Nicole, a white woman who's been dating a black man in a casual poly relationship the last few months.

00:03:57 Speaker_04
But after learning that all three of his partners, like herself, are white women, she's been trying to figure out how to talk to him about that.

00:04:07 Speaker_01
Would I have this conversation with white partners Like, am I just thinking through this because we're in an interracial relationship? If I'm being fully honest, I don't know if I would have thought about it before being in this particular situation.

00:04:21 Speaker_04
Nicole says she wants to live her values and challenge her whiteness, right? And it sounds like challenging whiteness in this relationship means asking her Black partner if he's challenged the role of whiteness in his. So where should Nicole start?

00:04:43 Speaker_03
Oh, I love the question. I hold a special place in my heart for topics around multicultural dating and ethical non-monogamy and the layers that go into this. The answer is almost always therapy.

00:04:58 Speaker_03
I think across the board, I do encourage and a lot of folks seek me out to have these conversations.

00:05:04 Speaker_04
Veronica Chin-Hing Mihaluk is a New York-based therapist who specializes in gender and sexuality.

00:05:12 Speaker_04
I asked Veronica, as a queer, sex-positive, and BIPOC therapist with a gentle approach, to help us unpack this question, starting with, are there best practices for navigating conversations like this? especially with an intimate partner.

00:05:29 Speaker_03
So first things I'm thinking of are words can convey a lot. So the first bit of advice would be to open up the question to set up a successful dialogue.

00:05:42 Speaker_04
In other words, the goal is to start an open conversation, not an interrogation.

00:05:48 Speaker_03
So being able to eliminate closed ended questions or judgmental words, eliminate words like only, like not a yes or no question. If the question ends in like, do you do this or do you not do that? Or do you only do this? Do you only date X groups?

00:06:05 Speaker_03
That is going to close down the conversation. And then also to really get to the heart of these conversations, I think it requires knowing where we come from too.

00:06:16 Speaker_04
knowing where we come from. That second suggestion Veronica made is for Nicole to do a bit of self-reflection. What is it about the situation and her own relationship history that's bringing up certain feelings?

00:06:32 Speaker_03
It sounds like they're concerned right now about the uncertainty and the information they don't have. So where can they be curious? Where can we shift concern to curiosity? Where can they be curious around

00:06:44 Speaker_03
why they're at this point in their journey of anti-racism, and what came before? What were some of the stumbling blocks? Where can they give themselves grace? Where can they give their partner grace for where he might be?

00:06:56 Speaker_04
As with everything, remember, time and place also really matter.

00:07:04 Speaker_03
just asking a partner to grab brunch or go walk around to the park and schedule some time in to intentionally explore previous dating histories or all of the messaging from families that went into who we're supposed to love and who we're not allowed to be in relationship with.

00:07:21 Speaker_03
Those can really be fruitful conversations and figuring out if someone is values aligned, which is what I hear the caller is really trying to ascertain is, is this partner,

00:07:31 Speaker_03
who may have sexual chemistry, may have emotional intimacy and all of the other things that feel so nourishing and wonderful.

00:07:39 Speaker_03
If they're not values aligned in a way that allows her to grow and challenge her whiteness or combat white body supremacy in the day to day, that might be a deal breaker. for this caller, too.

00:07:52 Speaker_03
So there doesn't necessarily have to be an answer to, like, break up or stay together. I think this is, like, such a great intro into the first of many conversations.

00:08:02 Speaker_04
Whenever clients come to you with questions like this, surely about, you know, interracial dating, and it is from the approach of the white partner and the white perspective, do you find there's a level of timidness or tension or fear or a feeling of walking on eggshells?

00:08:18 Speaker_04
Yeah, I would say it's

00:08:19 Speaker_03
It's not limited to just white presenting clients. So we really do receive a lot of folks looking for permission to build out their erotic blueprints, their relational blueprints.

00:08:31 Speaker_03
So when someone comes in and is like, can I have this conversation about race? My first question is like, sure, why? What are you trying to, yeah.

00:08:38 Speaker_03
And because I start from the nonjudgmental openness, we can work out the kinks and, you know, deal with the shame. We can deal with the judgments that are coming up.

00:08:48 Speaker_03
And by deal with, I mean not repress, but like literally critically examine over the course of a length of time. Sure. So we really have to be gentle.

00:08:59 Speaker_03
interrogate the entitlements and privileges in a way that isn't doubling down on shame and closing the conversation.

00:09:06 Speaker_03
If we can suspend that uncertainty and hesitancy and kind of look inside ourselves semantically, what's in our body, what's baked in our bones, oftentimes there is a blueprint for being able to relax and regulate.

00:09:21 Speaker_03
And in that state of regulating after the crisis, is where clients start to figure out their values around like, OK, I survived. How horrible this felt. I didn't die from this feeling of awkwardness or embarrassment or even shame. What's next?

00:09:41 Speaker_04
I'm not a therapist, but interrogating desire and attraction feels like a really healthy exercise for all of us to do, maybe at least once. In fact, it's something that this episode has made me talk about with my own partner.

00:09:59 Speaker_04
Why am I attracted to certain qualities? Where does that desire come from? What is it animated by? When did it start? And has it grown up with me or have I grown up around it?

00:10:14 Speaker_04
All of that has really been worth digging into, which made me want to ask Veronica. What is the difference between someone's type versus fetishization?

00:10:28 Speaker_04
If this person that Nicole is dating tells her he does prefer dating white women or has a history even of dating mostly, if not exclusively, white women, what is your advice then?

00:10:44 Speaker_03
I can start by saying someone's type might differ from a fetish in that a fetish is something that a person typically associates as a necessity, a core component to their erotic needs. I'm just curious about the why.

00:11:06 Speaker_03
So if he says, yes, I only date exclusively, I have this explicit criteria. I wonder if there's a conversation around making sure that Nicole doesn't feel pedestalized.

00:11:18 Speaker_03
And not in a way that the BIPOC partner has to change his behavior, but in a way where Nicole could move accordingly. Maybe it's de-escalating the relationship until she gets to know him more and to establish trust that, you know, his values aligned.

00:11:34 Speaker_03
Because I think this really goes down to values alignments and

00:11:38 Speaker_03
right so then let the deal breaker not be in the response and let the solution be in how nicole is learning from the experience or how anyone who's having this tough-ass conversation is learning from the experience because it is there's there's usually a gift in there to be able to learn about

00:11:55 Speaker_03
how to talk to another person about who they've loved and been intimate with, had sex with, you know, what caregivers, grandparents might've said around safety. I was told it was safer.

00:12:05 Speaker_03
We were marrying up if we were to connect with a white body person. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, so being able to like unpack that with folks and having conversations that feel on brand for their ethics and values and

00:12:19 Speaker_03
If you take anything from this, it's like, be kind, be kind and minimize cruelty where you can. Like how to start the convo really directly, consent forward, always offering opportunities for a person to say, no, not right now.

00:12:33 Speaker_03
I haven't eaten, haven't had water, had a really rough day at work. It's nine o'clock at night. We're in the middle of like the intermission at a Broadway show. Not the right time. We're at the club. We're at the club. Can't hear you. Sensory nightmare.

00:12:46 Speaker_03
Totally. So definitely keeping neurodivergence in mind, keeping all of our identity markers in mind. To keep that in mind, we have to slow down.

00:12:56 Speaker_03
It's okay to run it back and return to the conversation over and over again, passing it through different lenses and vantage points. And that's what I would do in therapy with clients.

00:13:09 Speaker_04
So to our caller, Nicole, hopefully some of these best practices will help you navigate this conversation. Talking about wanting to live your values is so important.

00:13:22 Speaker_04
Before you start the conversation with your partner, I would say that includes digging into the details of what those values are for yourself first. Hope that it goes well. You'll have to write us and let us know. Until then, that's our show.

00:13:38 Speaker_04
You can send us your Ask Codeswitch questions on Instagram at nprcodeswitch. If email's more your thing, ours is codeswitch at npr.org. And subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you're listening right now.

00:13:52 Speaker_04
If you'd like to support our work, you can sign up for Codeswitch Plus. It's small, but really makes a difference for us. And you get to listen to every Codeswitch episode without any ads. Check it out at plus.npr.org slash Codeswitch.

00:14:08 Speaker_04
And thanks to everyone who's already a Codeswitch Plus subscriber. This episode was produced by Skylar Swenson. It was edited by Leah Dinella. Our fact check was done by Aida Bordossat. Our engineer was James Willits.

00:14:23 Speaker_04
And a big thanks to our listener, Nicole G., for sending us this question.

00:14:30 Speaker_04
Also, wanna say a special thanks to Lauren Gonzalez, our project manager, as well as Cher Vincent, Yolanda Sanguini, and the entire content development team for helping make this series possible.

00:14:45 Speaker_04
Finally, a big shout out to the rest of the Codeswitch Massive, Christina Cava, Javier Lopez, Jess Kang, Courtney Stein, Dahlia Mortada, Veralyn Williams, Jean Demby, BA Parker, and Jasmine Romero.

00:15:00 Speaker_04
This is Ask Codeswitch, I'm Lori Lesarraga, call your therapist.

00:15:17 Speaker_00
The opportunity to connect with the best talent. The opportunity for people of all backgrounds to grow and expand their business. The opportunity to live and work in a state where paychecks go farther.

00:15:29 Speaker_00
The opportunity is now, and it's right here in Michigan. Visit michiganbusiness.org slash radio to discover all the ways MEDC is helping Michigan thrive. This message comes from Jackson. Seek clarity in retirement planning at Jackson.com.

00:15:46 Speaker_00
Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Inc., Jackson National Life Insurance Company, Lansing, Michigan, and Jackson National Life Insurance Company of New York. Purchase New York.