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Episode: Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Author: Armchair Umbrella
Duration: 00:53:16
Episode Shownotes
Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us a story about a crazy ex.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App,
Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Summary
In this episode of 'Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex,' hosts Dax and Monica discuss personal experiences with tumultuous past relationships, highlighting themes of obsessive behavior, vulnerability, and the humor that can arise from these situations. Listeners share stories about controlling partners, stalking, and chaotic breakups, revealing the emotional complexities and lessons learned. The conversation underscores the importance of open dialogue about struggles in relationships and the ways we navigate the messiness of being human, often with humor.
Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_06
Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.
00:00:16 Speaker_06
I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse. Today is Crazy X. Tell us about your Crazy X. People have Crazy Xs out there. They do.
00:00:26 Speaker_11
They have a history.
00:00:28 Speaker_06
If you have one, But I don't think it was realized till after. Now this, I gotta give a disclaimer to this. Obviously, and this should have been foreseen, obviously Crazy Ex entails some stalking. So if that's an experience you had, this probably.
00:00:47 Speaker_11
Isn't for you.
00:00:48 Speaker_06
You wanna skip it.
00:00:50 Speaker_11
At least skip the first two, yeah.
00:00:55 Speaker_06
Yeah, skip the first two. Just skip the whole fucking thing. Just don't listen to this show. Go get a burrito and a Diet Coke and two martinis and kick your feet up, it's Friday. Enjoy the day off. You've got a day off, no homework today.
00:01:10 Speaker_03
Fun.
00:01:11 Speaker_06
Please enjoy Crazy Exes. We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment.
00:01:28 Speaker_06
Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I am most excited to indulge myself with.
00:01:37 Speaker_02
I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Efret that is very, very hot right now.
00:01:46 Speaker_06
Well, there's so many good ones on the list.
00:01:48 Speaker_02
We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.
00:01:50 Speaker_06
I love Audible, I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Fleas autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life, every night.
00:02:02 Speaker_06
Go to audible.com slash dax and discover all the year's best waiting for you. That's audible.com slash dax. We are supported by Amazon Prime.
00:02:14 Speaker_06
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00:02:24 Speaker_06
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00:02:46 Speaker_02
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00:02:48 Speaker_06
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00:02:56 Speaker_06
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00:03:18 Speaker_04
Come and go, good times, take them slow My life, I had them both But one thing, you gotta know, I'ma keep on shining
00:03:36 Speaker_10
Hello.
00:03:37 Speaker_06
Oh my goodness. Look at this wonderful sound booth you've constructed.
00:03:40 Speaker_10
It's my husband's. He has a microphone and headphones. So I was like, thanks babe.
00:03:45 Speaker_06
But behind you too, there's a lot of nice sound dampening.
00:03:47 Speaker_10
I'm in my baby's nursery in this little nook. Oh my god, perfect.
00:03:52 Speaker_06
How old's your baby?
00:03:53 Speaker_10
He's four months old.
00:03:55 Speaker_06
Congratulations.
00:03:56 Speaker_10
Thank you. He's tiny.
00:03:58 Speaker_06
Does he smell delicious?
00:03:59 Speaker_10
Yes, the best. So good. When did that change?
00:04:03 Speaker_06
It goes on for quite a while. Are we using your real name?
00:04:06 Speaker_10
My name's fine, but everyone else will change names. Perfect. Just because.
00:04:11 Speaker_06
And so you're not named after Carly Simon because you would have spelled it differently.
00:04:16 Speaker_10
Actually, my mom, my name was Sierra, and then she was putting my nursery together and she heard a Carly Simon song. So she changed it. My dad came home, he was like, why does her room say Carly now? And she's like, I changed her name.
00:04:33 Speaker_10
So you are named after her. Yeah, just spelled different.
00:04:36 Speaker_06
I guess that's permitted.
00:04:38 Speaker_02
I like that.
00:04:38 Speaker_06
You like when people spell names. You and I have talked about this in the past, Monica.
00:04:42 Speaker_02
A little bit differently.
00:04:44 Speaker_06
You like that, yeah.
00:04:44 Speaker_02
I like that.
00:04:45 Speaker_06
Okay, you have a crazy ex. I mean, everyone does, but you have a crazy ex that we're gonna hear about.
00:04:51 Speaker_10
I was so excited when I saw the prompt. I was like, yes. I can't wait to hear Monica go, oh my God. We'll set the stage for us. Yes.
00:05:00 Speaker_06
So it was in 2013. I was a couple of years out of college. I met
00:05:11 Speaker_10
This guy, we won't name him. When I was in college, he just lived in the college town, but he didn't actually go to school. One of those, and he sold weed, so that's a big part of the story. He was a dirtbag. Not my proudest boyfriend moment.
00:05:26 Speaker_06
What was it about him that tickled your fancy? Was he gorgeous or something?
00:05:30 Speaker_10
He was cute. You know, in college, you're drinking a lot. We met at a party and it was fun. That continued for a couple years, but it was never great. But yeah, so we eventually broke up, but I should have mentioned this earlier. He was into graffiti.
00:05:44 Speaker_10
Graffiti gangs are called crews. I don't know if you guys know anything about this. I'm like so embarrassed to tell this story.
00:05:51 Speaker_03
No, we love learning.
00:05:53 Speaker_10
But yeah, he was in a crew. He always talked about this one specific other graffiti artist in the area that we're from and how he was like this OG person. And there's something very particular about this person.
00:06:05 Speaker_10
I won't say what it is about him because it would totally give it away. But he was like, yeah, that guy is so cool. I'm like, all right, cool.
00:06:11 Speaker_06
Wait, can I ask you one quick question? I guess this is maybe a PSA for dudes. My hunch is he was telling you how cool graffiti was and I'm going to crew and brother, this is awesome.
00:06:19 Speaker_06
You probably weren't ever that enthralled by it, but you're probably placating him like, Oh, cool, hon. Yeah.
00:06:26 Speaker_10
Pretty much.
00:06:27 Speaker_06
It's hard for us to know us boys. Like we're trying to tell you about this thing and you're being nice. And then we're misled to think this is cool.
00:06:34 Speaker_02
Because if you're not nice, then they get mad.
00:06:37 Speaker_06
You get graffitied.
00:06:38 Speaker_02
Yeah. You get graffitied in the middle of the night.
00:06:40 Speaker_10
Just wait till the end of this story. Oh boy.
00:06:42 Speaker_06
Can I ask how long you were together?
00:06:44 Speaker_10
on and off for a couple years. But yeah, we break up and I go to a party in a different town with a completely different group of people, not connected at all. And I end up meeting this guy and we hit it off and then we start dating.
00:06:58 Speaker_10
Well, it turns out he's like the OG character from another crew. I had no idea at all. Oh my God, you have a type. Yeah, and it was so silly. I'm like, why did I date both of these people who were into all this bullshit?
00:07:11 Speaker_10
Anyways, so my ex finds out that I was dating this other cat from another crew and starts to tag my house and tag my work. Oh my God. Tag like all the coffee shops that I go to.
00:07:25 Speaker_03
Ew.
00:07:26 Speaker_10
Really, really icky. And he's tagging sloppy seconds everywhere. That's how we knew it was him. Oh, my God. I end up moving. He finds out where my new house is. The cops were involved, because at that point in time, it was, like, stalking.
00:07:39 Speaker_10
But I'd be out with friends, and I've always had this weird kind of sixth-sense thing. My dad has it, too. Something's wrong, and we can't really explain it. But, yeah, I'd be out, and I'm like, he's here. And my friends would be like, where at?
00:07:51 Speaker_10
And I'm like, I don't know, but he's here. I gotta go. Whoa. And I'd, like, walk out of the bar, and he'd be walking around the corner. Or come out of a coffee shop and you'd be like across the street. New guy, I'm still dating him.
00:08:03 Speaker_10
He's getting pissed at this point in time, because obviously he cares about me enough to be like, this is really creepy and messed up.
00:08:09 Speaker_10
So the funniest part about this whole story is these two dumb graffiti crews, sorry to anyone that's super into graffiti. I think at this point in time in my life, I'm like, it's so stupid, the crew thing.
00:08:20 Speaker_10
But they met at a train yard for like an old school rumble.
00:08:24 Speaker_06
No! Oh, I love this part. It's like the outsiders.
00:08:27 Speaker_10
Yes. And they ended up fighting. Lots of people were involved. Just so dumb. Wow. I couldn't believe it. I was like, really? We're still doing that type of thing?
00:08:36 Speaker_06
Now this is a question Monica would never ask, but I will because I'm a boy. Who won and lost? Was there winners and losers?
00:08:42 Speaker_10
There's no winners.
00:08:43 Speaker_06
Everyone's a loser here.
00:08:45 Speaker_10
Everyone's a loser. I agree. Okay.
00:08:48 Speaker_06
I just want to know if your valiant boyfriend prevailed.
00:08:52 Speaker_10
Yeah, I think it got broken up at some point in time, too. I never really got, like, the full inside scoop of things. Was there guns involved?
00:08:59 Speaker_02
I don't think so. Okay, just fist fight.
00:09:02 Speaker_06
Spray paint cans.
00:09:03 Speaker_02
What if they sprayed each other with paint?
00:09:05 Speaker_10
Definitely, like, ripping shirts off and wearing white tank tops.
00:09:11 Speaker_06
I was open to the notion you were going to say they had a tag off, like a dance off. Like they got to a rail yard and they're like, you've got that train car. We've got this one. Let's see whose piece is fucking better.
00:09:21 Speaker_10
I'm sad because the second guy, he actually did a lot of really cool legal stuff in the city. And the ex would like go over his legal murals and things that were like funded by nonprofits to beautify our city and whatnot.
00:09:33 Speaker_10
So I just went from that guy's the coolest OG painter. If you ever meet him, let me know. And then I ended up dating that guy. That is crazy.
00:09:40 Speaker_06
It made him unravel. Yes. Well, in his defense, he doesn't deserve any defense, but boy, there couldn't be anything rougher than your ex going to your hero.
00:09:49 Speaker_02
Dating your hero. I know, right? Yeah.
00:09:52 Speaker_10
That is tough. It was not intentional, and I think he definitely thought it was, and I was like, I didn't know. Yeah, that does seem so bizarre.
00:10:00 Speaker_06
Impossible coincidence. How did it resolve?
00:10:03 Speaker_10
Just over time, really. I mean, the cops were involved, so I had like a no contact order. Eventually, it sizzled out.
00:10:09 Speaker_06
Did the fight resolve anything? Did he stop tagging? No. No, no, no. Of course. It rarely does, I suppose.
00:10:15 Speaker_10
After that, the sloppy seconds and name calling on the buildings outside of my house got a little bit worse at that point in time.
00:10:23 Speaker_06
That's crazy. That's a very freaky experience to be walking around and go like, oh, he was there. Yeah. Oh, he was there.
00:10:29 Speaker_10
Leaving tracks.
00:10:31 Speaker_06
Well, what he's doing is peeing on things. Yeah. Like a dog.
00:10:34 Speaker_10
It was scary. I was young and I lived by myself.
00:10:36 Speaker_06
How long were you with the OG guy?
00:10:39 Speaker_10
like six years after that. Wow.
00:10:42 Speaker_06
Is your current husband a misfit of any kind?
00:10:45 Speaker_10
No, he's like the most basic, nerdy tech guy of all time. In the best way. You have to get it out of your system. Yeah. He's not anything like I used to date, that's for sure.
00:10:57 Speaker_06
Did you ever hear through the grapevine? Did he outgrow his angsty shit and is he an artist now?
00:11:04 Speaker_10
I don't think so. When me and the second guy split up, I moved away from that whole scene. No hard feelings with the second one actually. We're buddies, but I don't think he ever really got his. stuff together.
00:11:17 Speaker_10
But that was the weirdest thing is he would live in a different city selling stuff all over the place. And so I'd never know if he was here. So that was like another little piece of it.
00:11:26 Speaker_06
You just gave me a great idea. Rob, write down, have you ever dated a drug dealer? So you could probably do a different prompt. Like he have randoms show up at the house. Was he dealing out of the house or would he meet people places?
00:11:37 Speaker_06
And how much money was he making doing this? Was he like fly and had a bunch of around town money?
00:11:41 Speaker_10
A lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't ever at the house, it was more like he'd go places with large amounts in his vehicle.
00:11:49 Speaker_06
Okay, he was dealing in like kilos and stuff.
00:11:53 Speaker_10
Yeah, bigger amounts of things.
00:11:55 Speaker_06
Oh, wow. How has it permanently impacted your association with graffiti? When you see graffiti, you just go like, he's fucking clowns. Or do you like it?
00:12:05 Speaker_10
I'm not going to say that I never had a little tag or doodle that I did. I definitely did that. It was kind of fun. But when I see it on a house or a building, I'm like, yeah, you Clowns really anywhere else. It's cool.
00:12:16 Speaker_10
And a lot of it is really beautiful and amazing in our city. There are a lot of very talented people, so like no hate on it, but the whole crew beef is beyond me.
00:12:26 Speaker_06
Very immature.
00:12:27 Speaker_10
Wow.
00:12:28 Speaker_06
I find myself conflicted about it. I'll see some and it's great. It is. It's art. It's beautiful. But then this happens more in Europe, particularly Paris. You'll see this incredible marble statue that is 600 years old in some arrogant
00:12:41 Speaker_06
fucking narcissist spray painted all over it to get his own glory. It's gotta be a him. And I'm like, those make me irrationally upset.
00:12:51 Speaker_10
I kind of feel the same way. I'm like, that's so disrespectful. Like go do it on the dumpster. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:12:57 Speaker_06
Well, Carly, what's clear from this conversation is you're a catch. Everyone's lining up. You're spending no time alone. So congrats.
00:13:06 Speaker_10
Oh, thanks.
00:13:07 Speaker_06
You went two, six, and then married. Thanks for sharing.
00:13:09 Speaker_10
It's lovely meeting you. You too. Thank you. I have to give shout outs. They're going to be so upset if I don't. So my mom said, I have to tell you that she was very sad that Bless This Mess didn't continue.
00:13:20 Speaker_06
Oh, thank her on my behalf.
00:13:22 Speaker_10
And Parenthood was her favorite show. She was like, you have to tell Dax. I said, okay, mom. And then my sister and my best friend are also armchairs.
00:13:31 Speaker_06
Well, lovely meeting you. Shout out to mom. Thank you, mom. Keep consuming all those things and shout out sister and best friend.
00:13:38 Speaker_10
Thanks guys.
00:13:38 Speaker_06
Take care. Ooh.
00:13:43 Speaker_09
Hello.
00:13:44 Speaker_06
Do you want to look at my veins, you pervert?
00:13:47 Speaker_09
Always.
00:13:50 Speaker_06
You're in a doctor's office, so my presumption was you like veins.
00:13:54 Speaker_09
Yes, I do like veins. I'm a nurse. I'm here in my clinic room. I was supposed to be seeing a patient, but... Oh, my God. A doctor is seeing them for me.
00:14:03 Speaker_06
Oh, OK. We're not preventing someone from medical care.
00:14:06 Speaker_09
No.
00:14:07 Speaker_06
OK, Jackie, are we using your real name?
00:14:10 Speaker_09
Yeah, that's my real name.
00:14:11 Speaker_06
Wonderful. And where in the world are you other than a doctor's office?
00:14:14 Speaker_09
New Orleans, Louisiana, which is also where this story takes place.
00:14:18 Speaker_06
We don't get a lot of New Orleans callers.
00:14:20 Speaker_09
We don't, and I love New Orleans. I know, you did have some Tulane talk on one of your recent experts. Yeah, that's like a heavy woman college. Right, on Malcolm maybe.
00:14:30 Speaker_06
It was Malcolm. Yeah, it's like becoming a woman's college.
00:14:33 Speaker_09
Yeah.
00:14:34 Speaker_06
That whole area around there, the Garden District and all that stuff is so dreamy.
00:14:38 Speaker_09
I've been here since right before Katrina when I started college at Tulane.
00:14:42 Speaker_06
Oh, wow. And where are you from originally?
00:14:43 Speaker_09
I'm from New Rochelle, New York.
00:14:45 Speaker_06
That's a big move.
00:14:46 Speaker_09
We're probably about the same age then. We're exactly the same age. I'm September 87. Wow. Oh my God.
00:14:53 Speaker_06
Are you a Virgo?
00:14:54 Speaker_09
I'm totally a Virgo. Wow.
00:14:55 Speaker_06
Girls. I love that.
00:14:57 Speaker_09
You have the same birthday as my little brother, who is just a few years younger. Lots of crossover.
00:15:01 Speaker_06
Do you find when Monica and I have dust-ups that you being the same age and a Virgo, are you always on her side?
00:15:08 Speaker_09
Not always, it's half and half.
00:15:10 Speaker_06
Okay, okay, you're giving us a very fair shake.
00:15:13 Speaker_09
I hang on y'all's every word. I don't even mind the toe fungus talk. Oh, well, there's more of it.
00:15:18 Speaker_06
We got a big update today and you'll even get a visual.
00:15:20 Speaker_09
Yeah, you'll get to see it.
00:15:21 Speaker_02
Yeah.
00:15:22 Speaker_06
Oh. Okay, Jackie, you have a crazy ex story and we're dying to hear it.
00:15:28 Speaker_09
I do. I missed the stalker prompt. So when crazy ex came by, I thought I have to try and submit.
00:15:35 Speaker_06
You know, it's funny, Jackie, that you would say that, as we've only talked to one other person, and it immediately occurred to me, these are generally probably going to be stalkers.
00:15:41 Speaker_09
Yeah. So this took place in New Orleans in 2007, 2008. It was my very first boyfriend I ever had. It was my junior year of college. We met working at the same restaurant.
00:15:53 Speaker_09
He was a bartender and I was a server, and we dated for, I want to say, maybe 18 months. And he was kind of like on the hippie side. He loved music, would go to Bonnaroo.
00:16:02 Speaker_09
One of his birthdays, I made him like an entire binder full of burn CDs from the 60s and 70s, very Beatles heavy. So we did that a lot together. And you know, I enjoyed the relationship while it lasted, but I was young, I was like 18.
00:16:15 Speaker_09
And ultimately, he turned out to be a little controlling, nothing crazy. He just didn't like it if I would
00:16:20 Speaker_09
wear makeup to class or dress up nice yeah that's a little more than a little controlling yeah that's red flaggy for sure it was red flags but it was my first boyfriend i didn't know any better and when you're naive i guess there's some side of you that it's flattering right like oh my god he thinks i'm so hot it's dangerous if i am wearing
00:16:38 Speaker_02
He's so protective of our relationship. He's scared. He's threatened. I'm so hot.
00:16:44 Speaker_09
Yeah. I ultimately realized that he was controlling. And again, I was so young and it was not serving me anymore. So I thought, whatever, we're breaking up. I don't want to be with you anymore. So we broke up and he did not take it well.
00:17:05 Speaker_06
We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984.
00:17:24 Speaker_06
This is the one I am most excited to indulge myself with.
00:17:28 Speaker_02
I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Efret that is very, very hot right now.
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Well, there's so many good ones on the list.
00:17:39 Speaker_02
We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.
00:17:41 Speaker_06
I love Audible. I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Flea's autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life. Every night.
00:17:52 Speaker_06
Go to audible.com slash dax and discover all the year's best waiting for you. That's audible.com slash dax. We are supported by Sonos. Sonos is the world's leading sound experience company.
00:18:08 Speaker_06
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00:18:22 Speaker_06
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00:19:06 Speaker_06
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00:20:08 Speaker_07
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00:21:09 Speaker_09
It started with, he would come to the house at all hours of the day and night. I lived on a second floor duplex apartment and I had a little deck outside of my window. It wasn't like a porch.
00:21:18 Speaker_09
It was like a little deck you could sit on and he would sit up there. and do creepy things like he would whistle or knock at my window. I would never be able to get out there fast enough to catch him.
00:21:28 Speaker_09
And then started the nonstop phone calls like hundreds a day, all hours of the day and night. I couldn't even use my phone. So I changed my phone number. But I kept my old phone because it was just cheaper to let that contract run out.
00:21:40 Speaker_09
So I had both phones with me, which is important to a later part in the story. It just kept ramping up. I blocked him and he would call me from restricted numbers. So I just left that phone alone.
00:21:49 Speaker_09
I tried to move on with my life, but it didn't really stop. I would like notice weird things happening to me around the city.
00:21:55 Speaker_09
I went to a male friend of mine's house and we were just hanging out at his house and my car alarm kept going off at his house. So I went outside to check and nobody was there. I just kept turning it off. I went back into his room.
00:22:06 Speaker_09
And he said, did you just call me? I said, no, I didn't call you. I'm here. He said, that's so weird.
00:22:13 Speaker_09
I have this phone call from Jackie right here, and he showed me the phone, and the phone call had come from my old phone number, which was back at my apartment.
00:22:21 Speaker_02
Oh, my God.
00:22:21 Speaker_09
Ugh. Ugh.
00:22:25 Speaker_09
where now we're like we're veering into psychopath territory i went back to my apartment and it was totally trashed he had broken into the apartment rumbled through all my things taking the phone oh my god taking the paintings off of my walls and just gone
00:22:40 Speaker_09
Wild during all this stuff happening. I tried to get my dad involved and he tried to call him and he would just deny deny deny He was like, this is not me. I'm not doing any of this.
00:22:48 Speaker_06
You're paranoid Can I ask you a question and I don't want a victim shame But it is always curious to me and I just want to explore why people are very resistant to calling the police Did you want to call the police? Did you call the police?
00:23:00 Speaker_06
Why didn't you call the police? Oh
00:23:02 Speaker_09
I called the police. I tried to call when he was doing the whistling on my porch, but by the time they got there, he wasn't there. I did file a restraining order, but they realistically told me, this is just a piece of paper.
00:23:13 Speaker_09
Just watch out for yourself.
00:23:15 Speaker_03
Yeah.
00:23:15 Speaker_09
I reported him to my campus police. He didn't go to the same college that I went to. So I like gave them his picture, but it was just kind of like, okay, be on the lookout. Yeah, you did everything you could do.
00:23:26 Speaker_06
I'm so sorry, ladies. It's so scary.
00:23:30 Speaker_09
It really affected my health. I was rapidly losing weight. I was really stressed out, couldn't eat. I went on a date with another guy months later. We went to the movies and I drove and on the way we were listening to, I think the Marshall Mathers LP.
00:23:43 Speaker_09
And we went into the movies and we came out and when we came out, it wasn't playing Eminem anymore. It was blasting the Beatles. Oh!
00:23:51 Speaker_02
Oh, my.
00:23:51 Speaker_09
Oh, man. And at that point it had been a long time. The entire experience of him stalking me was more than a year, maybe a year and a half that it happened. So at that point I was past fear and I was really angry.
00:24:18 Speaker_09
I remember that CD issue being the final straw and I grabbed a friend of mine and I confronted him at his job. He was working at a grocery store at that time.
00:24:27 Speaker_09
I went in with my friend with the Beatles CD and I just accosted him at his job and I said, I know this was you. I know you've been doing this. You've been following me and loud in the middle of the store and that spooked him.
00:24:37 Speaker_09
He said, please, please just meet me outside. Then at that point, he admitted to everything. He said, it's been me this whole time. I'm so sorry. I couldn't get over it and I just had to do what I had to do and I'm going to leave you alone.
00:24:50 Speaker_09
I swear I'm going to leave you alone. Can you just come to my house and I'll give you your things that I have of yours? Oh, my God, which is another red flag.
00:24:58 Speaker_09
I did go, but I brought some people with me and I went to his apartment and he handed me this big cardboard box of all of the things that he had taken from my house.
00:25:07 Speaker_09
So it was like my clothing and just random things that honestly, I didn't really care about if I had them or not. And he said, well, I have this one last thing to give to you. And what it was was a journal that I had.
00:25:18 Speaker_09
And in typical fashion, I would get a journal and write maybe five pages in it and then forget it existed. So he had taken it and he had billed the entire journal full of this long letter to me. I still have it to this day. Oh my God.
00:25:34 Speaker_09
This is so, this is like seven.
00:25:36 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's like a movie.
00:25:38 Speaker_09
So this is like how much I wrote in it. And then the rest of the journal is what he wrote. So it was just full of pictures and like one long, A letter of like pressed flowers. Eww. Pages ripped out. And just like letters that I had written to him.
00:25:56 Speaker_09
There was one part where he would censor what he wrote. I don't know if you guys could see this.
00:26:00 Speaker_06
Oh my gosh. Oh, he redacted things. This is so creepy. Hey Jackie, when you were with him for the year and a half, did you get any sense that he was like unstable?
00:26:10 Speaker_06
Other than the like controlling stuff, was he dealing with other issues in his life in a bizarre way?
00:26:16 Speaker_09
a little bit. He came from somewhat of a broken family. His parents weren't together, but overall he was happy. And the couple of pages that I did write in the journal, I did mention that we had fights here and there.
00:26:26 Speaker_09
I don't remember, but I guess we were always having little fights.
00:26:30 Speaker_06
Sure. Well, he's trying to control you and you're probably pushing back and it's probably endless.
00:26:34 Speaker_09
I studied women's studies at Tulane. I was just not having it at the time. I didn't think I just said, OK, never mind. See you later. But I thought this journal was so interesting because I know you guys always talk about journaling.
00:26:44 Speaker_09
It is a letter written to me. But over the like year and a half that he wrote in this journal, he eventually comes to terms with accepting it and being OK with it. It ends up being really a note to himself.
00:26:58 Speaker_06
Wow.
00:26:58 Speaker_09
So it was obviously very therapeutic for him to have finished this journal.
00:27:03 Speaker_06
It's a weird testament to the power of journaling, but here we are. I'm shocked he gave it to you. I would have thought maybe he'd want it for himself.
00:27:10 Speaker_02
It's also creepy to give it to you.
00:27:13 Speaker_09
Yes. He did also give me back the car keys and the phone. So I did get all of that stuff back, too.
00:27:18 Speaker_06
And was that truly it? Did you never bump into him again?
00:27:21 Speaker_09
It was truly it for the stalking part of it. Fast forward to 10 years later is 2018. Also, my very first date with my now husband.
00:27:29 Speaker_09
And we were just wandering around the French corner and we were in the back of the French quarter where it's real quiet, not Bourbon Street party time.
00:27:36 Speaker_09
I was showing him an old apartment I used to live in, which this ex-boyfriend I don't think knew about, but I spotted him. He was across the street on the same street that we were on, and he was with another guy. And we shared quick eye contact.
00:27:47 Speaker_09
We didn't acknowledge each other or anything like that. From there, that was truly it. I never saw him or heard from him again.
00:27:54 Speaker_06
God, that's what makes these things so complicated and maddening. How is anyone to figure out which one will get over it and which one's gonna escalate? You're dealing with something that's kinda illogical and already doesn't make much sense.
00:28:07 Speaker_06
Yeah, it must be so stressful trying to figure out how serious is this threat.
00:28:11 Speaker_09
How much danger am I in? Yeah, I remember it being very stressful at the time. I'm happy to report there was no real lasting effects from it. I'm happily married and I feel in good health now.
00:28:21 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:28:22 Speaker_02
Wow, what a story.
00:28:23 Speaker_06
I hate how many women have these stories. I really hate it. It's bonkers. Now, when the show Nurse Jackie came out, were you delighted or upset?
00:28:30 Speaker_09
I don't really mind. People say it all the time. Like, oh, Nurse Jackie. And the funny part is, is right now, one of the doctors I work with, his name is Dr. Google. Oh, wow.
00:28:39 Speaker_06
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Someone has the last name Google?
00:28:41 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's spelled differently, but pronounced Google. Dr. Google and Nurse Jackie in one practice.
00:28:46 Speaker_06
This sounds like a comedy sketch.
00:28:50 Speaker_09
Well, thanks for sharing that.
00:28:51 Speaker_06
Sorry to make you rehash it.
00:28:53 Speaker_09
Well, that's okay. I'm so happy to talk to you guys. I truly hang on your every word. I love all the shows.
00:28:58 Speaker_02
Oh, thank you. That's very sweet. We appreciate you.
00:29:01 Speaker_09
just give a quick shout out to my fellow armchair Heather. Our whole text thread is all armchair stuff.
00:29:07 Speaker_06
Heather, thanks for listening as well.
00:29:09 Speaker_09
Thanks, guys.
00:29:09 Speaker_06
All right. Take care.
00:29:11 Speaker_09
Bye.
00:29:12 Speaker_06
That's sweet pie. Yeah. I want her as a nurse.
00:29:15 Speaker_02
Go ahead. That's so shitty.
00:29:17 Speaker_06
It is. You're just like in an innocent relationship in college and it turns into this horror show. Dude, someone trashed my apartment.
00:29:25 Speaker_02
Oh my God.
00:29:26 Speaker_06
They're not afraid of the law.
00:29:27 Speaker_02
Exactly. Scary.
00:29:29 Speaker_06
I'm trying to think of the grossest, weirdest thing I've done in a breakup.
00:29:33 Speaker_02
What have you done?
00:29:34 Speaker_06
You know, slash tires and smash windshields. You have?
00:29:38 Speaker_02
No. Oh my god.
00:29:41 Speaker_06
I was my worst self when I got cheated on in 12th grade.
00:29:45 Speaker_02
And didn't you do something bad?
00:29:47 Speaker_06
Well, I tried to fight the boy who fucked her.
00:29:49 Speaker_02
Have sex with her. Be respectful. They made love.
00:29:53 Speaker_06
How dare you? I'm going to go to your house now. He was really good.
00:29:56 Speaker_01
He was gentle.
00:29:56 Speaker_06
He was really, really good. Yeah. Best lovemaking of her life.
00:30:00 Speaker_01
Hello. Hi Dex and Monica. How are you?
00:30:02 Speaker_06
Nice to meet you, Chris. You look like you could definitely be in Leonard Skinner.
00:30:09 Speaker_01
Oh, thanks.
00:30:09 Speaker_06
You got a real Skinner look and I love it.
00:30:11 Speaker_01
Yeah. Where are you? I am an hour South of Louisville, Kentucky.
00:30:16 Speaker_06
Ooh, nice. I love how people from Louisville say Louisville.
00:30:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, you like to say that.
00:30:20 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:30:21 Speaker_01
I'm from Tacoma, Washington, so I had to learn to say it right.
00:30:24 Speaker_06
Oh, sure, sure, sure. Okay, so you have a crazy ex, which is a bit of a relief, I gotta say, because we've talked to two women, and it's just- And they're horrific stories. Yeah, they're horrific, and these poor women are terrified.
00:30:35 Speaker_06
So if we can hear from a terrified man, that would help right the ship a little bit.
00:30:39 Speaker_01
Great, cool. So this takes place back near Tacoma, Seattle area in Washington in 2008. My senior year of high school, I started dating a girl who I had known. We went to junior high, high school together.
00:30:51 Speaker_01
She was on the high school cheer team, but she was also in theater.
00:30:57 Speaker_02
Was she me?
00:30:59 Speaker_01
Things are going great. We start dating about halfway through senior year. So when we start dating, she says, just so you know, I am saving myself for marriage. Totally okay with that.
00:31:07 Speaker_06
Already, you're a much better guy than most. You're totally okay with that. That's great.
00:31:11 Speaker_01
Well, I wasn't like stoked about it. You loved her.
00:31:15 Speaker_06
Yeah, you respected her.
00:31:16 Speaker_01
Yeah, and other things were happening. Graduation, we, at this point, we're in love and she says, I want you to be my first time. I was like, okay, well, I'm not ready to get married. And she's like, no, no, no, I don't want to wait anymore.
00:31:27 Speaker_01
So we actually do have a couple of legitimate conversations about it. And then I ended up taking her virginity. It's a pretty great summer for both of us.
00:31:36 Speaker_01
And I move into an apartment with a couple friends and she just kind of starts coming around unannounced, like she lives there. And my friends were like, hey, it's not really OK. So I had a talk with her.
00:31:49 Speaker_01
And then over the course of two or three months of fall and into winter, she starts getting more clingy. She starts inviting herself to guys days like, hey, we're going skateboarding or we're going up to Seattle to go see a movie. She's like, great.
00:32:01 Speaker_01
When are we leaving? I'm like, no, this is a guy's thing.
00:32:04 Speaker_03
Right.
00:32:04 Speaker_01
And she's like, yeah, but I'm coming with you guys. And I'm like, no, that's not how it works. It just progressively gets worse. Her behavior becomes kind of erratic. I feel really bad.
00:32:14 Speaker_01
The first thing on my mind is I'm starting to fall out of love with this girl because it's not the girl that I fall in love with. She's acting differently. And then, of course, I also do feel bad like I did take this person's virginity.
00:32:23 Speaker_01
And that's very, very sacred to her.
00:32:25 Speaker_02
You can't take that on.
00:32:26 Speaker_01
You asked. Oh, fuck. Yeah, like, okay, well, this is tricky. I don't know what to do in this situation.
00:32:51 Speaker_06
I guess I'll see you tomorrow. I guess you're right. I guess we're still together.
00:32:55 Speaker_01
I'm 18. I don't really know how to navigate these kinds of situations. I am not an adult yet. So I basically end up just saying, we can talk about this, but like, I think I want to break up.
00:33:04 Speaker_01
And so a couple of days later, she comes over, it's a Friday night, and we're having a party because we're 18. So there are people in the house. She's like, can we please go in your room and talk?
00:33:13 Speaker_01
So we go into my bedroom and we start talking and she's like, so what's this about wanting to take a break? And I was like, no, I want to break up.
00:33:19 Speaker_02
Yeah.
00:33:20 Speaker_01
And then she just says like, no, I don't think you can do that. Is that an option? Then I'm like, I'm really sorry. This does suck. This isn't gonna work out.
00:33:30 Speaker_01
So she does some begging and pleading and I of course feel horrible but just stand my ground and then she's got a few things in my room so she gathers her things and she's obviously stomping around my room and it's huffing and then she walks out of the room and slams the bedroom door and then she opens the door back up and puts her hands on her hips and she goes, by the way, I'm pregnant.
00:33:50 Speaker_01
Stop. No. No.
00:33:54 Speaker_06
Okay, so, okay. I'm gonna, okay. No, I'm just gonna let this proceed.
00:33:57 Speaker_01
So, I didn't handle that well, and I, at this point, was like 98% sure she's lying. Right. Because she's angry. So, I just do the dumb 18-year-old boy thing of like, oh, okay, you're pregnant, yeah. I kind of make fun of her. Oh, boy. Yeah.
00:34:11 Speaker_01
Monica, I'm sorry. I know, it's not a good look. Monica, I'm sorry.
00:34:14 Speaker_02
I mean, she's worse off in this situation than you are. Her behavior's worse.
00:34:20 Speaker_01
What my egos allow me to remember is this is the first mistake I make is poking at her in a very vulnerable moment, even though like you're using this lie as a weapon. Yeah. She leaves. She calls me a hundred times over like a week. I don't answer.
00:34:35 Speaker_01
She sends me a text and says, I need you to meet me at store and I want us to buy some pregnancy tests. And so I'm like, Oh, okay. Now I'm kind of scared. Like, okay, maybe she is serious.
00:34:44 Speaker_05
Right.
00:34:45 Speaker_01
So she comes over in the middle of the day and we have a couple that we're friends with that are there to mediate the tension and I'm like, I don't want to be alone with her. We go in the bathroom and we take the test. It's negative.
00:34:55 Speaker_02
Okay.
00:34:55 Speaker_01
We take a second and then a third one. They're all three negative. And I'm like jumping for joy. I'm 18. I make $250 a week. You're living with 12 dudes. Yeah. And I'm like, yes, this is awesome. She's like in tears. And I'm like, this is a good thing.
00:35:11 Speaker_01
We broke up. You're not pregnant. And then she goes, well, I just thought if I actually was pregnant that we could be together. And I'm like, no, that's not how it works.
00:35:22 Speaker_01
For one, this imaginary child that you lied about, we would have raised them separately. I'm not going to be with you regardless.
00:35:30 Speaker_02
I would have raised them separately.
00:35:35 Speaker_06
Yeah, this conversation right now would be about visitation rights, not about where we're going to buy a house.
00:35:40 Speaker_01
So you did lie about the pregnancy. She said yes. And then I'm like, OK, please gather your things and leave. And I don't want to speak to you anymore. So she leaves. My friend and I have the decency to wait till she's out of the apartment to high five.
00:35:55 Speaker_01
Yes. This is a huge relief, even though I knew it was a lie. Just the idea that it's a possibility is terrifying. She starts telling everybody that she miscarried and that that's why she wasn't pregnant.
00:36:04 Speaker_01
So she's telling everyone in the friend group that like oh the stress of our breakup and blah blah blah. No one believes her Thank God. I don't look good in this situation, even though I really haven't done anything wrong, right?
00:36:16 Speaker_01
We don't talk it's the next summer so like nine months goes by I have some friends who rented a house in the lake We're partying I go to bed early. What do you do in the 2000s? You take someone's phone and you make prank calls so I have not texted her.
00:36:31 Speaker_01
I've not called her. She's not reached out to me. One of the people they prank called in my phone was my ex.
00:36:35 Speaker_06
So it's your buddies fucking with you. They're like pranking people from your phone or you're participating.
00:36:40 Speaker_01
No, I'm asleep. Yeah.
00:36:41 Speaker_06
Okay, great.
00:36:42 Speaker_01
They just sent her some texts and said some things on voicemail. She didn't answer the phone. I had no idea that this had happened. Two days later, there's a sheriff knocking at my door to give me papers for a restraining order. Oh my God.
00:36:54 Speaker_01
Oh Chris I have to go to a hearing and I have to explain like this is what's going on I don't have to go to the hearing but if I don't go she automatically gets the restraining order I guess if I don't show up to defend myself I'm 19 now this is how dumb I am I think a restraining order is like a physical thing like I can't be in her physical realm so I text her and go like what's the deal why
00:37:17 Speaker_01
Did you get a restraining order against me? And I've at this point, I figured out like what happened with the prank calls, a restraining order, there's zero contact.
00:37:23 Speaker_01
So I screw up, not knowing that you can't text the person and be like, Can we be reasonable? I thought it's like, you know, if I go to a coffee shop, and she's there, I have to leave. Yeah, kind of. I would have thought that probably. Yeah.
00:37:34 Speaker_01
So I get a fine. I have to go to a court date now. Oh, because of the restraining order. Yeah, because I violated the restraining order. So I have to go in front of a judge and say, this is what happened. And he's like, why would you text her?
00:37:45 Speaker_01
And I'm like, I don't know. You know, I don't have a lawyer. Yeah. I'm just like, sorry, sir.
00:37:49 Speaker_06
You're in your cleanest T-shirt.
00:37:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, pretty much. There's skateboarding jeans that don't have holes in them. He basically is just like, she's allowed to have this. You could have gone to the hearing and fought this. I understand your position because I had proof.
00:38:01 Speaker_01
I got the phone company involved with call logs. I mean, I told him the whole story I just told you guys.
00:38:05 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:38:05 Speaker_01
You can tell he's just sitting there going like, wow, she's something. Yeah.
00:38:09 Speaker_06
You got your hands full.
00:38:10 Speaker_01
You did violate a restraining order. So you have to pay the court fee. You have to pay this fine. And this is like a strike one kind of thing. Cause I don't have a record.
00:38:18 Speaker_01
And so I'm just like, wow, I'm just like a creep who has a restraining order from an ex girlfriend. That sucks.
00:38:22 Speaker_06
Yeah. I feel like that's on a questionnaire sometimes. Like have you ever had a restraining order filed against you? It's not like being labeled a sex offender, but it's not great.
00:38:32 Speaker_01
It's not great. Yeah. I mean, no lesson to be learned other than just, I guess maybe don't take people's virginity.
00:38:38 Speaker_06
Monica's not going to like that takeaway, but I feel very confirmed in my fear. There should be professionals. There should be like sex workers. There's singular businesses taking virginity.
00:38:47 Speaker_02
Oh my God. That's the lesson here. Let's start a new field of sex work.
00:38:53 Speaker_01
I have never spoken to her since and the restraining order expired and we've moved on with her life. It's been over 15 years now and I married you an amazing woman who's like, yeah, you've never shown me any of these signs.
00:39:03 Speaker_01
Cause I tell the story as kind of like a cocktail party, like a, check out this crazy story I have. I know this doesn't make me look good, but it's a funny story. Right. Everyone's always like, yeah, you didn't do anything wrong.
00:39:13 Speaker_06
Yeah. Well, Chris, it's a damn delight to meet you.
00:39:17 Speaker_02
Yeah. Truly. Thanks for chatting with us. That was fun. I'm sorry that happened.
00:39:21 Speaker_05
Thank you both. All right. Take care, Chris.
00:39:23 Speaker_02
Bye. Bye-bye.
00:39:24 Speaker_05
I thought a baby was going to answer the call once they pranked her. Oh, it's been nine months.
00:39:31 Speaker_06
That's what you thought the big twist was. And the baby answered and said, dadda? The baby knew his number. I thought she was gonna threaten to hurt herself. Cause that's pretty common.
00:39:40 Speaker_02
I've had that.
00:39:41 Speaker_06
I've had that too.
00:39:42 Speaker_02
People are crazy.
00:39:44 Speaker_06
People get really emotional and they act unpredictably.
00:39:47 Speaker_02
No, people are crazy. Okay. Okay.
00:39:51 Speaker_06
I guess the title is crazy acts. Fuck with you.
00:39:54 Speaker_02
People scare me.
00:40:05 Speaker_06
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00:40:22 Speaker_06
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00:42:34 Speaker_06
If we did an episode where we got to air one thing about one another that was really inconsequential, but that we couldn't accept, would you know what yours would be?
00:42:45 Speaker_08
Oh my God, that's such a big thing.
00:42:46 Speaker_06
It is. Lauren. Can you hear us?
00:42:50 Speaker_08
Yes. Can you hear me?
00:42:51 Speaker_06
Yes. I'm going to take up two seconds of your time because we're going to have a real life thing in front of you. Okay. So while it was ringing, I said to Monica, let's do an episode where we both air something about one another.
00:43:03 Speaker_06
That's really inconsequential. We shouldn't care, but we want the person to change that. And then you answered.
00:43:08 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's like he dropped this huge bomb. He's obviously thinking about it.
00:43:12 Speaker_06
Yep, because it just happened. Why won't you put your phone on do not disturb? You know, it won't vibrate if you put it on do not disturb. And I hear it through all the interviews downstairs and I hear it nonstop.
00:43:22 Speaker_06
It was ringing off the hook yesterday in our back to back interviews.
00:43:26 Speaker_02
You could have asked nicely. I have.
00:43:29 Speaker_06
I have suggested do not disturb many times.
00:43:31 Speaker_02
You have never said, hey, can you put your phone on do not disturb, please?
00:43:37 Speaker_01
It's your turn though.
00:43:38 Speaker_08
No, I don't have one. Sorry. Yeah. Well, Monica, I'm not a do not disturb girly either. Sorry, Dax. I'm going to have to sigh. I love the way this went.
00:43:47 Speaker_06
Lauren, do you do a show that is audio centric where like audio is kind of important?
00:43:52 Speaker_08
In Dax's defense, Monica, I do not.
00:43:55 Speaker_02
In my defense, do you know all the things you do that have to be cut out that are audio? Tell me. Please.
00:44:03 Speaker_08
Just the other day, he wanted us to hear how close his truck was. Yeah.
00:44:08 Speaker_06
Thank you. There you go. But see, this is great and I'm open to it. That's okay. Tell me. I can take it. We're best friends. You know what it is? My great curiosity is, do you know you can do that?
00:44:18 Speaker_02
I do, but I don't want to.
00:44:23 Speaker_06
a great defense.
00:44:23 Speaker_02
I want to know if something serious is happening. I'm kind of scared of it.
00:44:27 Speaker_06
Are you afraid you'll forget to turn it back on to focus? Cause I could remind you at the end of every episode. Okay. Are you glad you got to be privy to this? Cause this is what happens quite often.
00:44:39 Speaker_08
Of course. Yeah. I often see myself as the third parties. Love it.
00:44:42 Speaker_06
Did you think you didn't have it? Is that what you were just about to say? Okay. Lauren, you have a very nice closet and I'm seeing some kind of snakeskinny platform things behind me that are exciting.
00:44:54 Speaker_08
Oh yes, some snakeskin booties. My closet, I'm not quite David Beckham level, but I aspire to be.
00:45:00 Speaker_06
And what I noticed you're doing, and I wonder, I want to ask Monica if she does this too, you have one shoe that points out and one shoe that points in. Is that what you do too, Monica? I do. Should I be doing that?
00:45:09 Speaker_08
Maybe not, only because sometimes I'm looking for the color of the shoe that I need for the outfit, but also the heel is very important as well.
00:45:16 Speaker_06
Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Am I going one inch, three inch? Where are we at?
00:45:20 Speaker_08
I also think it just looks cool.
00:45:22 Speaker_06
Will you feel it's an invasive question if I ask how tall you are?
00:45:25 Speaker_08
No, not at all. I am five three on my best day.
00:45:29 Speaker_06
That's lovely. That's a good height. Mini and mighty.
00:45:33 Speaker_08
That's me.
00:45:34 Speaker_06
Where are you at in the world?
00:45:35 Speaker_08
I am from Muskogee, Oklahoma. I'm coming to you from my closet.
00:45:38 Speaker_06
Wait, isn't there an Okie from Muskogee? Isn't that a thing?
00:45:41 Speaker_08
Yes. And it's so crazy that you bring that up because we just unveiled a new Merle Haggard statue. Downtown.
00:45:49 Speaker_06
That's right. It's a Merle Haggard song. An okey from Muskogee. Do you know that term, Monica? I've heard it, yeah. That's so good. An okey from Muskogee. Wow.
00:45:57 Speaker_08
The big joke now is there's a dispensary on every corner here. And so we do smoke weed in Muskogee.
00:46:05 Speaker_06
God bless those outlaws that were just singing it from the roof. You know, famously, do you know this, Monica? Willie Nelson, when he was invited to the White House, he went up on the roof and smoked a joint.
00:46:14 Speaker_02
Oh, wow.
00:46:15 Speaker_06
It's pretty cool, right?
00:46:16 Speaker_02
That's cool. That is cool. Who was the president?
00:46:19 Speaker_06
Lincoln.
00:46:21 Speaker_02
I would look it up, but my phone's on do not disturb now.
00:46:24 Speaker_06
I bet it was Carter. That's gonna be my guess. Maybe Rob will figure that out while we're talking. Yeah, you're right. It's Carter.
00:46:29 Speaker_02
Hey Rob. Hello.
00:46:31 Speaker_05
It's with his son Chip.
00:46:32 Speaker_06
Ah, he and Chip banged a doobie up on the White House. That's great.
00:46:36 Speaker_02
Carter was nice. He was a Georgia boy.
00:46:38 Speaker_06
If there was anyone who would not be bummed when they walked outside to see that weed smoking, it'd be Carter.
00:46:43 Speaker_08
I mean, we should ask him. Bless him. He's still with us. Yeah, exactly. You're right.
00:46:46 Speaker_06
Oh, it's incredible. It's really cool. Okay. Okay, Lauren. You got a story for us. You have a crazy ex.
00:46:51 Speaker_08
Yes. To give you some backstory, this story starts with a teen pregnancy, mine, as all good stories do.
00:46:57 Speaker_03
Uh-huh.
00:46:58 Speaker_08
Okay. So I had my son in high school. The guy in this, I'm not going to say his name just to preserve his anonymity. This is my story from my perspective. Things didn't work out with my son's dad. No big deal. He's lovely. Family's lovely.
00:47:09 Speaker_08
Everything's fine. A year after I have my son, we start to get serious with me and I'll call him my fiance.
00:47:15 Speaker_06
Not baby's daddy.
00:47:16 Speaker_08
Not baby daddy. Different guy. A year after my son's born, me and my fiance, we start getting serious. He had just finished school. I'm finishing school.
00:47:24 Speaker_08
He had moved about three hours away from our hometown for work, where subsequently my stepdad factors into this. They did the same kind of work. They were there together.
00:47:32 Speaker_06
Oil and gas?
00:47:33 Speaker_08
Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Sarah Paulson. Just listened to her yesterday. The Dust Bowl, Oklahoma.
00:47:38 Speaker_06
Dingles, dingles, dingles.
00:47:38 Speaker_08
So end of school, my last semester, I was lucky enough to get everything where it was online. And we had just gotten engaged that Christmas. And so I was like, I'm just going to move there. There's no reason, like I can do everything online.
00:47:49 Speaker_08
School was the only reason why I hadn't moved to be with him already. We've been together for years at that point. My son's two or three. Everything's great. So I move out there. It's a Friday night. I'm getting dressed. Monica, you'll know this.
00:48:00 Speaker_08
This is 10 years ago. I'm wearing my skinny jeans, my peplum top, my soft bun, ready for date night. To the local Chili's, might I add. I never got that Chili's and I'm still upset about it. So he comes home from work. He jumps in the shower.
00:48:18 Speaker_08
You know, he knows the thing is going to change. We're going to go to Chili's. All that's great. While he's in the shower, the doorbell rings. So as I'm walking down the hallway, you can either turn left to the front door or right to the living room.
00:48:27 Speaker_08
And through the windows of the living room, I see three or four cops through the windows. Oh, and I'm like, OK, I mean, there's an Air Force base nearby. I'm like, maybe they're just looking. I don't know what's going on.
00:48:39 Speaker_08
You know, I've only been in this town for a couple of months at this point. So I opened the front door to about five cops. And so they instantly say, please step outside. And so I'm like, okay, you know, with no shoes on, my peplum top and my socks on.
00:48:51 Speaker_08
And they are like, is anyone else in the home? I'm like, yeah, my fiance, he's just now getting out of the shower. And as I turn around and tell them that he's rounding the corner, putting a shirt on, he's like, hey guys, what's up?
00:49:01 Speaker_08
He's like, step outside. Instantly they separate us where we can't see or hear each other. I'm with one older cop and the other 12 cops are with him. I'm like, you have to tell me what's going on. Like, does this involve me? What is the deal?
00:49:16 Speaker_08
And he's like, I can't tell you anything. And I keep badgering him. And finally, I'm like, can you just at least tell me if this has anything to do with me? And he says, at this point, I don't think so. I'm racking my brain. I have no idea.
00:49:27 Speaker_08
Mind you, our wedding is a month away. And so I'm like, what is going on? The dozen of cops and my fiance go stand by the mailbox. And there's a gray truck that had been parked down the road, but I didn't think anything of it.
00:49:41 Speaker_08
Just thought it was parked outside of a house. Well, about the time they do that, the guy pulls up Rolls down his window, takes one look at him and said, yep, that's him. They cuff him, put him in the police car. The gray car goes and they leave.
00:49:52 Speaker_08
They tell me nothing. And I'm just standing there. I'm thinking they had gotten in trouble on their job site a couple of weeks before burying trash or something silly. So I'm like, maybe it has something to do with that. Again, racking my brain.
00:50:03 Speaker_08
And so I instantly call his brother, which again, it's a Friday night. I call him, he's at a party. I'm like, I need you to leave. We've got something going on. I get him up to speed.
00:50:13 Speaker_08
I'm like, if there's anything that you know, I need you to tell me now. He's just as clueless as I am. Freaked out because a brother just got arrested. So this is where my stepdad comes into play. Again, he's the only person I know. And so I call him.
00:50:26 Speaker_08
It's Friday. He's already at the bar. He's having a good time. Friday, big day.
00:50:30 Speaker_06
And a hard work in town.
00:50:31 Speaker_08
Yeah. Man, long week, long hours. And so I tell him and he's like, I don't know what's going on. When I saw him, everything was fine. But you know what? I'm at the bar. Come pick me up.
00:50:39 Speaker_08
Consequently, I'm friends with one of the bail bondsman's that comes to the jail. And we can figure this out. So I go and pick him up and he's like, they couldn't tell me. They just told me where he was and that it's a thousand dollars bail.
00:50:51 Speaker_06
That's mildly comforting. We're not talking a murder.
00:50:54 Speaker_08
That's kind of what I thought. It wasn't even just a thousand dollars bond, thousand dollar bail for the whole thing. So I'm like, okay, get some cash out. We go to the jail. I walk up there and of course no one's there cause it's after hours.
00:51:05 Speaker_06
They're at the bar and at Chili's too.
00:51:08 Speaker_08
Exactly. And so I pick up the phone call and this lady answers. Hi, I'm here to pick up so-and-so. I have the money." She's like, okay, great. We'll send somebody up in just a minute. You'll sign some paperwork. We'll send him out.
00:51:18 Speaker_08
I said, okay, ma'am, could you please tell me what the charges are or what's going on? And she's like, no, I can't tell you that. As he comes walking out, again, me and my stepdad in the car, he's then moved to the back seat.
00:51:29 Speaker_08
Cause he is just Mr. Non-confrontational. He has no idea what's going on.
00:51:33 Speaker_06
He has nothing to do with this whole situation.
00:51:35 Speaker_08
So he said, LB, I'll tell you this. Please just don't ask him while I'm in the car. Just take me home and then you can do it. And I'm like, okay. So we take him across town, take him to his house. He gets out.
00:51:46 Speaker_08
And then I'm just sitting there thinking, because of course, as soon as he's gone, I want to just turn to him and be like, what is going on? Like we're getting married in a month and you're getting arrested.
00:51:56 Speaker_08
But I just have this moment of like, these past few hours have been so crazy and hard for me. And I'm not even the one that went to jail. So I'm going to give him a second. He's probably so scared, felt so unsafe.
00:52:07 Speaker_08
Give him a second to just let it sink in.
00:52:09 Speaker_06
You're an angel.
00:52:09 Speaker_08
Yeah, that's so empathetic and kind. The hours, it wasn't as heightened. And so we get home, he goes to get out of the door and I instantly press the button to lock the doors. I'm like, no way.
00:52:23 Speaker_08
I can't go into this home with you and just go to bed like nothing has happened until I know what's going on. That's when he lowers his head and breaks down and tells me that for the past
00:52:33 Speaker_08
Year or so, intermittently, not every day, on his way home from work, he had been exposing himself to strangers on the street. And the guy in the gray truck, my fiance had done it on the way home from work that day.
00:52:49 Speaker_08
The guy in the gray truck, his daughter was in the backseat. He followed him home, called the cops. And so that's why he was like, yep, that's him.
00:52:58 Speaker_06
Oh my God. Lauren, what a plot twist. I don't know why this might be unfair to people with this condition, but when I think of these flashers in the train, I can't wrap my head around.
00:53:13 Speaker_06
If I'm filling in the blanks, I'm assuming that person's the weirdest motherfucker and I would be able to detect that.
00:53:18 Speaker_08
And that's why everyone always says, you know, looking back, were there any signs? No, I was about to marry this man and be with him for the rest of my life. Everything was great. I had no idea.
00:53:28 Speaker_06
I am very shocked. He admitted to all that, to be honest with you. I'm surprised he didn't go like this person pissed me off. And I'm like, I'm going to show him my dick. Like that's pretty wild. He came clean like that.
00:53:40 Speaker_08
I think it was because turns out they had been looking for him because he had been doing it for so long. And of course, people had gotten his tag number and stuff, but we're not from there. The address and stuff wasn't leading them to anywhere local.
00:53:54 Speaker_08
So, turns out there were six felony counts of indecent exposure. And God knows, I mean, because thinking back now, if I saw it, I would just be like, ugh, and keep going, you know, and of course, tell all my friends this crazy story that happened.
00:54:08 Speaker_08
I'm not going to think to call and report it. So who knows how many times it actually happened.
00:54:12 Speaker_06
Yeah. What were your follow up questions? You must've just been dumbfounded.
00:54:16 Speaker_02
Also they let him out for that, that quickly? That's weird.
00:54:19 Speaker_06
They can't hold you. If they set a bail.
00:54:21 Speaker_02
No, I'm saying I'm surprised the bail is set for so low for six felony accounts.
00:54:25 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:54:26 Speaker_08
He had signed a statement while he was there, admitting guilt and remorse for all of it. Of course, I had a ton of follow-up questions. Why? When? What? Was the reaction ever good?
00:54:37 Speaker_06
I've read that. What they're after is they like the look on the person's face. The shock. Did he say that?
00:54:44 Speaker_08
Yeah, he said it was never good and that's what his... goal was. Ultimately, he was sentenced and he went to prison for a few years and the last time I have talked to him, seen him face to face, I guess.
00:54:58 Speaker_08
was through the glass on the phone at the jail, like you would imagine. And this was 10 years ago.
00:55:04 Speaker_06
Did you, by the way, I would not be judgmental. In fact, maybe I'd even admire this about you because you could go like, yeah, you need to go get punished, but also you could have compassion for him. I don't want that condition.
00:55:16 Speaker_08
That's exactly where my head was. It made me feel bad that we were close enough to actually be married and that he felt that
00:55:22 Speaker_08
Number one, he couldn't tell anyone, but certainly that he couldn't tell me and think that I wouldn't want to work through this or fix it because now it's a little. I mean, again, I have my son. I mean, he's a sex offender.
00:55:34 Speaker_08
To be with him, I would have to get married to him like that. I could not see that for myself. I didn't want that for myself. And I like to think that he didn't want that for me either. Yeah.
00:55:43 Speaker_06
This could be potentially really heartbreaking, Lauren. Like if I was so in love with someone and I found out they had this thing, that would not be easy. It's not like I go like, oh, great. So now I don't feel all the ways I've always felt about them.
00:55:55 Speaker_08
Looking back, there were never any signs, but it did just cast a shadow on certain things. And I mean, I was 22 at the time. This is terrible. And I helped him as much as I could, but I kind of had to say too much for me.
00:56:14 Speaker_08
But just from friends of friends, I've heard that he's since then remarried and he Seems like he's doing fine and doing great.
00:56:20 Speaker_06
Keeping his pants on.
00:56:21 Speaker_08
Hopefully in therapy. Let's hope. And about a year after all of that happened, you know, I had moved home, started working and actually me and my son's dad, we rekindled about a year after and we've been together ever since. Oh my God, I love you!
00:56:37 Speaker_06
I didn't see that. Delightful ending coming our way.
00:56:40 Speaker_08
It's a great ending. Kind of like a blessing in disguise for me, at least. Also, you caught it just in time. Yeah. I mean, Monica, I had to call, I mean, all the venues, cancel the cake. I had my huge dress hung up ready to wear. Oh, my God. It was insane.
00:56:56 Speaker_06
Although I will say normally when you have to call off a wedding, you have to go like, yeah, I just decided I was, I didn't want to be with them forever. But this is like so clean. It's like, turns out he's a flasher.
00:57:06 Speaker_02
But that is also like, you have to tell people and you probably are conflicted. I feel bad for him. And now I have to tell all these people he knows.
00:57:13 Speaker_03
He'd be so embarrassed that everyone knows.
00:57:16 Speaker_08
Being from a small town, everyone knew we were getting married and then everyone knew we broke up, but no one knew why. So, I mean, maybe someone will hear this and they'll be like, okay, I get it. I get it.
00:57:28 Speaker_02
And you also protected him from not telling everyone.
00:57:31 Speaker_08
That's very kind. In the end, it all worked out. But yeah, that was a crazy time. I told this story one time at a bachelorette party. We were staying in a cabin in the middle of nowhere and the power went out because it was a rainstorm.
00:57:43 Speaker_08
They were like, let's tell ghost stories. And I didn't really know all these girls. And I was like, circle up. Let me tell you, I got one. I got a ghost. Wow.
00:57:52 Speaker_06
Pull up a chair, gals.
00:57:53 Speaker_02
That was wild. I really, really hope he's doing okay.
00:57:58 Speaker_08
From what I hear, I think the system worked in the way that it is ideally supposed to, and he got the help that he needed. And I can only hope that moving forward, he learned his lesson and has gotten over that because I can't imagine.
00:58:10 Speaker_06
I just might feel more in love with them than I actually was because I wasn't allowed to be with them for a reason that was out of my control. Like, I feel like it's just right for that.
00:58:19 Speaker_08
I think that made it easier for me not to be kind of vindictive and do things that I probably would have regretted. So I am thankful for that. And he is such a nice, I mean, I was going to marry him. He's a great guy.
00:58:29 Speaker_08
And I truly hope that all of that got fixed, but I'm just was ultimately sad that he was in that place that He felt like he couldn't disclose to anyone.
00:58:38 Speaker_02
That is one of the things our society doesn't really have an outlet for people to go say like, Hey, I have these feelings or I'm doing this and I don't really want to be doing it, but I'm doing it. Where can anyone go to do that?
00:58:51 Speaker_02
And then it perpetuates the problem.
00:58:53 Speaker_06
It's not good. Let's add that to the list of things to fix.
00:58:56 Speaker_08
Okay. Add it to the list. Well, Monica, add it to the list of your questions to ask any potential suitors. Yeah. Oh my God. Showing your penis to strangers ever just a little bit, just once or twice.
00:59:09 Speaker_06
Well, Lauren, thank you for telling us that. And thanks for mediating our conflict at the beginning. And your story was so good. Now we're feeling good. Yeah. And me too.
00:59:17 Speaker_08
Well, no, I was hoping that the uplifting end would put a nice little bow on it.
00:59:22 Speaker_06
All right. Well, be well. Thank you so much.
00:59:25 Speaker_08
Yeah. Thank you so much. I hope you guys have a good rest of your day.
00:59:27 Speaker_06
All right. Take care. Oh my God, that gal is so positive.
00:59:31 Speaker_02
Don't you think maybe do not disturb is not such a big deal in light of what people are doing out there? My God.
00:59:38 Speaker_06
I said part of my question was something insignificant you shouldn't care about. So I owned how trivial this is.
00:59:47 Speaker_02
But you do care.
00:59:48 Speaker_06
Well, yeah, because it distracts me. I get worried the guest is like, who's ringing this? I'm going to answer that.
00:59:53 Speaker_02
They don't care.
00:59:54 Speaker_06
They don't care.
00:59:56 Speaker_02
No one cares except you. Wow, that was wild.
01:00:01 Speaker_06
That was wild. We got kind of every variety of that.
01:00:04 Speaker_02
I wonder if I loved someone that much. I wonder what I would stick around for. And that's like a scary thing to say out loud, but I really could see sticking around for stuff I shouldn't.
01:00:18 Speaker_06
Well, no, no. I think the rule is pretty clear. It's would you stick around as they tackled this problem?
01:00:26 Speaker_02
I have to really love them though, because I'm kind of quick to be like, I can't be here for that.
01:00:32 Speaker_06
That's fair. You would never stick with someone who's not going to address it. But if you love someone and they're going to work their ass off on this thing, I think you would stick around for that.
01:00:40 Speaker_03
Oof.
01:00:41 Speaker_06
Also, if you saw the look on someone you love's face of the shame when they told you, I do think it would be very powerful. Again, it's all how they say it. If they get defensive and denying, no.
01:00:56 Speaker_06
But if someone just has that moment where they come clean and they're full of shame, I think the best part of us would want to help that person figure it out.
01:01:05 Speaker_02
Yeah, but also, I mean, it depends on your shit, because she has a kid.
01:01:09 Speaker_06
Oh, well, that made it very easy.
01:01:11 Speaker_02
Yes, I agree. Wow.
01:01:14 Speaker_06
All right, well, I love you.
01:01:15 Speaker_11
Love you. Do not disturb. Focus.
01:01:23 Speaker_05
Do you wanna sing a tune or something? We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions, and with the help of armchairies, we'll get some suggestions on the fly around this show.
01:01:50 Speaker_06
Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
01:02:04 Speaker_06
Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
01:02:10 Speaker_00
They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.
01:02:26 Speaker_00
When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, There were many questions surrounding his death.
01:02:34 Speaker_00
The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry.
01:02:46 Speaker_00
But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder.
01:02:57 Speaker_00
Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.