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Episode: An Interview with Allison Jones
Author: Audacy & Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
Duration: 01:02:47
Episode Shownotes
This week the ladies are interviewing Allison Jones! Allison was the casting director for “The Office” and helped cast “The Office” characters that we know and love today. Allison shares how she got into casting and her memories of helping Greg Daniels assemble this great cast. The ladies share some
audition stories, Allison reminisces on some of her favorite “Office” memories and of course, Allison talks about working in casting with Phyllis Smith before Phyllis was cast on “The Office”. Enjoy! Check out Office Ladies Merch at Podswag: https://www.podswag.com/collections/office-ladies Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Summary
In this episode of 'Office Ladies,' hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey interview casting director Allison Jones, who shares her journey into casting and her collaboration with Greg Daniels on 'The Office.' Jones emphasizes the importance of authenticity in casting, recounts memorable audition stories, and reflects on her experiences in assembling the cast. She discusses the evolution of the audition process, particularly the shift to self-taping, and highlights how genuine connections and tenacity are essential in the competitive entertainment industry. The episode provides listeners with valuable insights into the behind-the-scenes casting process of the beloved series.
Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (An Interview with Allison Jones ) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.
Full Transcript
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00:02:21 Speaker_03
I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.
00:02:30 Speaker_04
Each week we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Ladies 6.0. Hello, everyone. Hey, that was so fun to hear our new intro.
00:02:48 Speaker_03
I love it. Yeah, me too. Well, we are very excited today. We are going to kick off Office Ladies 6.0 with an interview you've all been asking for. Casting director, Alison Jones.
00:03:01 Speaker_04
Yes. I can't think of a better person to have as our first interview for Office Ladies 6.0. And she is one of the most requested guests you guys have written in about.
00:03:12 Speaker_03
Oh, yes. When we go through suggestions of people that Office Ladies fans wanted to hear from, the overwhelming winner is Alison Jones.
00:03:20 Speaker_04
Listen, if you are a fan of movies and television, chances are you have seen Alison's name on some of your favorite programs. Here are just a few, OK?
00:03:29 Speaker_04
She helped cast Family Ties, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Freaks and Geeks, Spin City, Undeclared, Parks and Recreation, Arrested Development, The Good Place, Rutherford Falls, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and of course...
00:03:42 Speaker_03
The Office. She also casts movies. I'm going to say some movie titles. Do it. Barbie, Lady Bird, Talladega Nights, 40-Year-Old Virgin, Superbad, Thunder Force, Knocked Up, Sing, Ghostbusters, funny people, bridesmaids, stepbrothers. Oh my gosh.
00:04:05 Speaker_03
I mean, there's so many. So many.
00:04:07 Speaker_04
We didn't even list them all. We didn't even come close. This woman is a powerhouse and has forever made her mark on the entertainment industry. And Jenna, before we play our interview with Allison, I thought we might want to answer this fan question.
00:04:22 Speaker_04
Okay. It's from Amelia in Akron, Ohio. Jenna and Angela, what unique gift does Allison bring to the casting experience compared to other casting directors you've worked with?
00:04:34 Speaker_03
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I think when you listen to our interview with her, you are going to hear what a thoughtful and engaging person she is. And for me,
00:04:50 Speaker_03
Going in to meet with her was very different from meeting with other casting directors. She has a real curiosity about people and I felt like she was very interested in getting to know me as a person as well as me as a performer.
00:05:08 Speaker_04
That's exactly it. When I walked into her office, I was nervous, but she was instantly so calming to me, and I felt like she was working with me. That's how I felt. She wanted me to do the best performance I could, and I really felt that from her.
00:05:26 Speaker_03
Well, we asked you guys to send in your questions for Allison, and you sent in so many fantastic questions. And we tried to ask her as many as we could.
00:05:35 Speaker_04
This is such a fantastic interview with an amazing woman. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, Allison Jones is here. All right, you're listening to two former Party Planning Committee members.
00:05:53 Speaker_03
Yes.
00:05:53 Speaker_04
And you know what the one thing the Party Planning Committee never planned? What? A wedding. We did not. Could you imagine Phyllis, Angela, Pam, and Meredith planning your wedding?
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00:06:53 Speaker_00
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00:08:45 Speaker_03
Hello, Allison. Hello.
00:08:49 Speaker_04
It's so fun to have you in the studio. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Not just Allison in the studio, but three bins of stuff that you brought from your storage facility.
00:09:01 Speaker_06
Yep.
00:09:01 Speaker_03
You also brought us absolutely gorgeous floral arrangements.
00:09:07 Speaker_06
Well, you deserve them.
00:09:09 Speaker_03
They're so pretty.
00:09:10 Speaker_04
And we have a little something for you because you're our very first guest on Office Ladies 6.0. Thank you so much. This is for you. Thank you.
00:09:17 Speaker_06
Can't wait. I've been looking at it to see what it is.
00:09:19 Speaker_03
Well, the folks at Odyssey helped us make these for our guests moving forward, and we're so tickled.
00:09:28 Speaker_06
This is fantastic.
00:09:29 Speaker_03
Okay, turn it around. Turn it around.
00:09:30 Speaker_06
Oh my gosh.
00:09:31 Speaker_03
Oh. Tell people what it says.
00:09:35 Speaker_06
World's best podcast guest. That's fantastic.
00:09:39 Speaker_03
It's a mug.
00:09:39 Speaker_06
And who drew the cartoon? Our friend Ileana. It's amazing. Yeah, she's a great artist. Yeah.
00:09:45 Speaker_06
I remember fondly saving a cross from Steve when he was testing for the pilot, and he had the world's best boss mug holding it, and he was reading his monologue audition. And he was holding this, so very good.
00:09:57 Speaker_03
Yay! Well, Allison, we told our fans we were going to be interviewing you, and they sent in a ton of questions. And I thought we could kick things off with this one. This is from Chelsea Frazier in Greenville, South Carolina.
00:10:12 Speaker_03
Chelsea asked, did you go to college? And if so, what did you study? I'd imagine that casting would take someone who's good with people, like maybe sociology or communications. But I'm curious where Allison built that amazing ability to spot a good fit.
00:10:30 Speaker_06
God bless you, Chelsea. That's a good question. I did indeed go to college, not for any kind of media anything. I grew up back east and I went to college in Los Angeles at Pomona College. And I was an art major and a math minor.
00:10:44 Speaker_06
After that, I went to business school of all places at UCLA. Got an MBA degree, went to work in advertising for a year in New York City. I didn't like it. I was miserable.
00:10:55 Speaker_06
And a friend of mine from business school, Lydia Woodward, who is a very successful writer-producer, she wrote ER, et cetera, China Beach, a lot of shows. She said, I'm at AFI. It's a gas. You should come out and do it. You can get good
00:11:08 Speaker_06
loans, student loans. So I did that and I went to the American Film Institute. And after AFI, I needed a job. And my same friend Lydia said, I think you'd like casting because you remember faces.
00:11:19 Speaker_06
So I just applied for… that was when you had to type letters to try to get an interview and you had to follow up the letter with a phone call.
00:11:28 Speaker_06
Anyway, one person called me back and I got the job with a casting director named Judith Wiener, the late Judith Wiener. who at the time was doing a lot of comedy for Thomas Harris, and this is the mid-'80s.
00:11:40 Speaker_06
And so I started doing a lot of comedy then. I started doing a lot of comedy. My own taste was definitely developed just by having a bunch of brothers and sisters, and my own vibe was developed.
00:11:52 Speaker_03
How many brothers and sisters do you have?
00:11:54 Speaker_06
I have five.
00:11:56 Speaker_03
So you're one of six?
00:11:57 Speaker_06
I'm one of six. And we were all into things like in the 60s and 70s, we worshiped the Three Stooges. We worshipped Rona Martin's laugh-in. We worshipped a lot of comedy back then. Peter Sellers, Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau.
00:12:10 Speaker_06
Anyway, that was definitely developed for me by my older siblings and we all were big comedy fans, so.
00:12:17 Speaker_04
You know, Alison, my dad would enter a room and he would go, enter! I was like, Walter Matthau? And I didn't know what he was doing until years later.
00:12:25 Speaker_06
Oh my God.
00:12:26 Speaker_04
And then I watched it with him.
00:12:27 Speaker_06
We could quote lines from The Odd Couple and the Party, Peter Sellers, forever and ever.
00:12:33 Speaker_03
Well, this next question is one that we ask all of our guests, which is, how did you get your job on The Office?
00:12:40 Speaker_06
OK. I think I had just finished doing a show called Freaks and Geeks, and I think Greg Daniels liked the realness of the actors that we hired on Freaks and Geeks, which was the first time I had ever been asked to cast a show like that.
00:12:56 Speaker_06
It was kind of, when you look back, it was pretty earth shattering to cast teenagers who were not like, you know, then we called them WB people. The WB, the gorgeous kids who were 28 playing 18.
00:13:07 Speaker_04
Because everyone had to be super pretty.
00:13:10 Speaker_06
Everyone had to be Dawson's Creek and they were all in their mid-20s playing, you know, 17, 18. But Paul Feig and Judd Apatow were like, we just want real kids. And I understood immediately having been one of those myself.
00:13:22 Speaker_06
Then they were making a lot more teen shows than they do now. So having pretty well-versed in the teen stuff.
00:13:28 Speaker_06
It was the kids who didn't get the show I did right before that called Roswell High, who I brought in for Freaks and Geeks, who I remembered were so good.
00:13:35 Speaker_06
And they came in, like James Franco, Jason Segel, they came in and they were right for Freaks and Geeks. Jill Greenberg, my colleague in New York, and Corinne Mares, my colleague in Vancouver, equally
00:13:46 Speaker_06
major in doing the pilot of Freaks and Geeks with getting the real kids. Seth Rogen and Jill Greenberg found Sam Levine. But anyway, Greg, I think, just liked the way that was cast. And so he called me in and I interviewed.
00:13:57 Speaker_06
And I was so nervous because HBO had just started airing the British office. At the same time, they had also started airing LEG. So it was like, what is this brand new, unbelievably smart, funny way they're doing comedy in Britain? It's incredible.
00:14:13 Speaker_06
So, anyway, I was so excited to get an interview for The Office. I'm sure he interviewed quite a few people. Greg is thorough. We had a good talk and Greg was, you know, he's very thoughtful about his process and I appreciate that.
00:14:27 Speaker_06
But I got that with Greg. I think there were probably a handful of casting people who interviewed for it as we still have to interview for all of our jobs like actors and we do the same things. We beat ourselves up after an interview.
00:14:38 Speaker_06
God, why did I say that? That was stupid.
00:14:40 Speaker_04
Alison, with your resume, you still interview? They don't look at everything you've done and just say, give me Alison Jones, please?
00:14:47 Speaker_06
Not always, believe it or not. I know. I know. I agree. For half hours, I still have to sometimes, which is sad to me.
00:14:55 Speaker_04
You know, I got a call to play the bitch on a show recently, and they wanted me to come in and read. And I always do. I always do. I was traveling and I was like going to miss the window to audition. And I said, you know,
00:15:08 Speaker_04
If they want to see me play a bitch, ask them to watch the first nine years of The Office. Just ask them to watch nine seasons, any episode, and they'll find the bitch. Wow. I'm sorry about that.
00:15:20 Speaker_06
That's okay. An excruciating part of my job is having to have people come in who should never have to audition. And still people, young producers, young directors, young studio people, young everything,
00:15:33 Speaker_06
I have to see people read because they don't have imagination.
00:15:36 Speaker_06
I have a fine-tuned imagination about taking someone, their personality, and seeing if it can be transferred into an acting thing, which is a large part, I will say, of how the Judd Apatow, Paul Feig,
00:15:51 Speaker_06
office school of comedy came along because we have to look beyond how people do line readings and see what they're like as people.
00:16:00 Speaker_06
Again, people like Judd and huge comedy geniuses who sort of started this whole real comedy kind of vibe or improv-y kind of comedy vibe. They'll see what they can bring to it as opposed to see how they read the lines that you wrote. Yeah.
00:16:14 Speaker_06
It doesn't have to be word for word.
00:16:15 Speaker_06
And people who are funnier than anything that's written on the page get a chance to improvise like Steve Carell and some of the early Second City people who came to town when I first met them, Nia Vardalos and Steve Carell.
00:16:27 Speaker_06
People like that who were in Second City back in the early 90s probably would come in and bless them all, not be the greatest auditioners.
00:16:36 Speaker_06
Comedy doesn't always translate well into auditioning with somebody else's sitcom jokes and punching the lines up. And back in the 90s, if you didn't stay on book, as they say, I think producers were horrified. No, she changed that line.
00:16:49 Speaker_06
I can't hire them. But with the onslaught of a lot of improv comedy from stand-up comedy to improv comedy casting. One of the sad things is having to have people read who absolutely don't need to read.
00:17:03 Speaker_04
Well, I normally don't. We all feel that way.
00:17:05 Speaker_06
I guarantee all casting people have great empathy for actors. Or believe me, we wouldn't be doing this.
00:17:11 Speaker_03
I talk to aspiring actors sometimes, go into their classes and take questions. And one of the things that I always really try to tell people is that the casting director is rooting for you. They want nothing more than for you to come in and be great.
00:17:27 Speaker_03
Because if you're great, their job is done. And they have found you. And it's exciting to them. So they are absolutely rooting for you. And I say, like, it's okay to ask a question. Let them help you get this job.
00:17:42 Speaker_06
Yeah. Yeah. That's perfect. That's perfect. I mean, now it's still a little bit different because now I think the trend has headed to a lot of self-taping.
00:17:50 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah.
00:17:51 Speaker_06
Which for me, self-taping is better for like a lot of pre-reads when I can meet infinitely more people with pre-tape.
00:18:00 Speaker_03
We should tell people what a pre-tape is. That's where if you get an audition for a show, they email you the materials and then in your house, you put yourself on tape reading the scene and then you send it back to the casting director.
00:18:14 Speaker_03
But back when we were auditioning, it was more common that you would have to physically go into the casting office and sit across from someone like Phyllis or someone like you, and you read the scene with us.
00:18:26 Speaker_03
And we could even get maybe a little notes or feedback in the moment. But now it really is a lot more since COVID, especially you send in a tape of yourself.
00:18:36 Speaker_06
I think it's less stressful. I think so too and I think actors, we now give people the choice. They'll often pick, I don't want to drive across town at 2 o'clock and I can do 10 takes at home. Those are considered pre-reads.
00:18:49 Speaker_06
And then they go to the producers and then we still have auditions with producers. But I think it's just in person. Oh, for sure. We couldn't for a while.
00:18:58 Speaker_06
And that was, you know, it was, I'll be honest, it was fairly hurtful when during COVID people would accuse casting people of not doing our jobs because we were having people self tape. That was massively hurtful.
00:19:09 Speaker_03
Yeah.
00:19:09 Speaker_06
Because as a rule, who goes to bat more for an actor than a casting person?
00:19:13 Speaker_04
Exactly. Nobody does. Exactly.
00:19:16 Speaker_06
So many people out there have gigantic parts and careers and they have no idea how close they came to not getting that job until a casting director fought for them and showed them every piece of tape we could find, showed them being interviewed on every talk show, everything, or didn't let them take another job and made sure they stayed available for the pilot of The Office kind of thing.
00:19:33 Speaker_06
That was rough. But what came of that is that all the self-taping, what came of it was we can put so many more people on tape everywhere. you know, Britain, everywhere, and they get shots at it.
00:19:46 Speaker_04
Yeah, because they're not having to come into the room. So you can audition wherever you are in the world.
00:19:50 Speaker_06
Well, for people we don't know, it just opens it up. It opens up the floodgates and we can see if we're casting kids, they can go home and do it with their folks. Sure. And we are trained to spot something on the video.
00:20:02 Speaker_06
We don't necessarily go by line readings.
00:20:05 Speaker_04
Yeah.
00:20:05 Speaker_06
We leave that to the executive producers and then we argue with that. Guys, look at this person. This kid is fantastic. He's green, but he can, you know, that's what you get.
00:20:13 Speaker_06
You get, it's a leap of faith and you take someone green who you like their vibe and you go with it. Boy, that has worked for me in comedy. That's for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:20:23 Speaker_04
Well, I love not having to sit in the hallway anymore. The long hallway where you're waiting to go in and there's like eight people that look almost just like you. And then you can hear the audition.
00:20:32 Speaker_04
You can hear the person before you reading the same lines you're about to read. Am I crazy?
00:20:38 Speaker_03
I like all of that. No, it's okay. You like the hallway? A little bit.
00:20:45 Speaker_04
What do you like about the hallway?
00:20:46 Speaker_06
You wouldn't anymore. I wouldn't? I don't think so. Maybe when you're younger and you really have to audition and go for something, you like that hallway because there's the camaraderie.
00:20:54 Speaker_06
What I always admire is the camaraderie of actors seeing each other at auditions. And they're friendly, and they haven't seen someone in a while, and they're saying, hey. And they're really thinking, oh, I'm up against this person.
00:21:06 Speaker_06
I'm up against this person again and again. Because a lot of actors know who they're up against. They see the sign-in sheet, and they know who just came in.
00:21:13 Speaker_03
My biggest competition my whole career was always Allison Hannigan.
00:21:16 Speaker_06
I'm sure, yes.
00:21:17 Speaker_03
Allison Hannigan and I would be at all the same auditions.
00:21:21 Speaker_06
Every actor has that. Angela, every actor would have the one they always saw at every audition.
00:21:24 Speaker_03
Yep, and Mary Lynn Reiskope was my other one. Okay, I bet.
00:21:27 Speaker_06
In fact, she was... She was up for Pam. She was, and she was really good too.
00:21:34 Speaker_03
I know, I know.
00:21:35 Speaker_06
She and I tested against each other many a time. Yes, I'm sure you did.
00:21:40 Speaker_04
Mary Lynn has a very funny bit that she does in her stand-up where people ask for her autograph and they say, you were great as Pam. And she just was like, OK.
00:21:49 Speaker_03
She just doesn't even react anymore. That's very funny. I have a very funny Mary Lynn Ricegum story, which is that I had been auditioning for this pilot. for the Dan Band. So he was doing this show, and there was the part of the waitress.
00:22:03 Speaker_03
It was the lead girl. And when I read the sides, I thought, oh, I'm going to do, like, my best Marilyn Reiskob. That is... I'm literally going to do an impression of her, because that's how I see this part.
00:22:16 Speaker_03
And I walked into the test audition and she was sitting right there. And I thought, you know what? At least I knew what they were going for. Like I at least interpreted it right. And then guess what? There was one other girl.
00:22:27 Speaker_03
There was tall, blonde Australian actress. She got the part.
00:22:31 Speaker_06
Oh my God.
00:22:32 Speaker_03
Mary Lynn and I did not get it. It went to the third girl. But I thought that was really funny. I was like, oh, yep, there she is.
00:22:40 Speaker_04
Yeah, mine is Rachel Harris. Oh, sure, of course. And then she ended up playing my sister in the finale, which is perfect. The best. But I feel like there's a show out there somewhere where we're related.
00:22:52 Speaker_06
Yes, the Groundlings was very, very good to the office. Everybody in the Groundlings and UCB and all of that. Yeah.
00:22:59 Speaker_03
Well, speaking of that, a lot of people wrote in to ask, how do you start casting a project?
00:23:05 Speaker_03
Can you tell us a little bit about how you assemble a cast and what were some of the things that you and Greg first talked about in terms of a vision for the show?
00:23:14 Speaker_06
Well, we had a template, the British office.
00:23:17 Speaker_06
And I think we discussed, it didn't make sense to me to really do duplicates of the people in the British office, but their kind of essence, you know, Jim was a little less self-confident, that kind of thing.
00:23:28 Speaker_06
And so I think he mostly discussed just real people. He just, we just need to get real people in here to start to audition. So I started by doing a lot of pre-reads, meaning they came to my office and would read the sides and I would,
00:23:41 Speaker_06
At the time I don't think we taped pre-reads. We could ask Phyllis that question. I don't think we did. And that we were in an office across from CBS Radford and it was just Phyllis and me. The before times Phyllis.
00:23:57 Speaker_06
And we always pre-read every casting director. You do so much legwork. You're pre-reading so many actors, blah, blah, blah. I knew Jenna. I knew you because you had already done Undeclared, right? You had done… Yeah. And I just knew you because of Naomi.
00:24:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, you took a general meeting with me.
00:24:11 Speaker_06
Yes, that's right. Was Phyllis there?
00:24:13 Speaker_03
Phyllis was there. St. Louis.
00:24:14 Speaker_06
Yeah, right.
00:24:16 Speaker_03
And then you called me in for a role on Undeclared.
00:24:20 Speaker_06
Right, right.
00:24:21 Speaker_03
And I got it.
00:24:22 Speaker_06
Right.
00:24:22 Speaker_03
It was one line.
00:24:23 Speaker_06
Yep.
00:24:24 Speaker_03
And then you called me back all the time for different shows. And I never got any jobs. But for five years, you kept bringing me into your office, Allison. Didn't you do Spin City? Well, Spin City was my very first job. That was the very first one.
00:24:43 Speaker_03
And then Undeclared.
00:24:44 Speaker_06
Okay, great.
00:24:45 Speaker_03
You had brought me in for Freaks and Geeks. Oh, right. But I didn't go anywhere.
00:24:50 Speaker_06
Okay.
00:24:52 Speaker_03
But you just kept calling me back and calling me back and calling you back for auditions. And then for The Office, you called Naomi and you said, I'm going to bring Jenna straight to producers.
00:25:03 Speaker_03
I think she would be great for this role of Pam, but you need to tell her something. tell her two things. Dare to bore me with your audition.
00:25:15 Speaker_02
I'll never forget those words.
00:25:17 Speaker_03
Dare to bore me. Do not come in and do a bunch of comedy shtick. She needs to play it super real and also no glam. I want her coming in looking natural. That's what they're looking for. I was like, got it.
00:25:35 Speaker_06
Well, you came to mind immediately for sure, Jenna Fisher for that part. And also those were the days where you didn't have to attach big names to anything. Greg was very open just to new faces and real people and I knew what he meant right away.
00:25:49 Speaker_06
So I just went back and I would usually do a week or two of pre-reads getting to know everybody and I would call Naomi and we would get all the groundlings in and et cetera, et cetera.
00:25:59 Speaker_06
And I did not want to duplicate the people on the British show, but just sort of their essence in there, what they would bring to a similar character.
00:26:08 Speaker_06
I think the pilot of The Office had a bit of a mandate from NBC to do it like the pilot of the British Office.
00:26:15 Speaker_03
Yes.
00:26:16 Speaker_06
It was scripted the same. With all due respect to Greg, it bugged me that we had some Britishisms in the script, like, you like a drink after work? I'll never forget that. That's such not an American That is not an American way to say that. That was Jim.
00:26:29 Speaker_06
All the Jims had to say, so you like a drink after work? And I was like, oh, Americans don't say that. Please change it. But I don't think it was changed, at least for the auditions. So it's a couple of weeks of pre-reading.
00:26:39 Speaker_06
I have all the lists of who came in to pre-read here if you ever want to look at them. Oh, including, you know, so many people now who are huge and who then went on to read for producers but didn't get the job.
00:26:50 Speaker_04
Alison, you gave me, when the show wrapped, as a gift, my sign-in sheet the day I auditioned, and I still have it. I even kept it in the red folder you gave it to me in. And reading the same day that I was reading was Katharine Hahn.
00:27:06 Speaker_06
Oh my gosh. See, that stuff is great about casting. Many colleagues and I have those old sign-in sheets and the old sheets with notes about what we said about actors and things. At the time, everybody who was anybody in comedy came in.
00:27:18 Speaker_06
A couple people passed or had deals at CBS or something and couldn't come in, but everybody wanted to do the show. So we had a lot of great producer sessions.
00:27:27 Speaker_03
I remember my producer session with you.
00:27:28 Speaker_06
I'm sure you do. You were in the stellar first day.
00:27:32 Speaker_03
Yeah, you said that you found half the cast the first day.
00:27:36 Speaker_06
That usually happens, by the way.
00:27:38 Speaker_03
Is that right?
00:27:39 Speaker_06
Uh-huh. That's very common. Casting people bring in their favorite people first. And if you get them on the day they're available, there are so many independent variables in casting. We're at mercy of other people's scheduling, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:27:50 Speaker_06
Frequently for a movie and pilots, et cetera, you cast it the first week. But because you have to go through the steps and people don't know and they can't think and they can't decide and there's 8,000 people who have to agree on one person.
00:28:02 Speaker_06
Now anyway more than was then for sure.
00:28:05 Speaker_03
Well, I remember coming in and you told me that… Big table.
00:28:10 Speaker_06
Yeah. Yes. Big conference table kind of thing. It was not a good audition space.
00:28:14 Speaker_03
But you told me we're going to do a little improv at the producer's session. I'm just going to ask you some questions, and then you answer how you think Pam would answer the question. And I remember thinking, OK, Allison's note was, dare to bore me.
00:28:32 Speaker_03
So OK. So I'm sitting there. The camera is on me. There's all these people watching me. And you say, so Pam, do you like being a receptionist? And I went like this. No. And then I didn't say anything else. And the room was like crickets.
00:28:54 Speaker_03
And my heart was pounding. I'm like sweating. And then everybody burst into laughter. And I was like, yes, that's what I was going for.
00:29:01 Speaker_03
Because I thought, listen, this gal, my circumstances are that my crazy boss has brought me in front of a documentary crew. I don't have media training. I don't know how to give a good interview.
00:29:14 Speaker_03
I don't wanna say anything bad, but I also don't wanna lie. So I'm gonna just say no and leave it at that. And I thought the more interesting thing would be all the things you see me not say.
00:29:31 Speaker_05
Right, right.
00:29:34 Speaker_03
Then anything I could possibly say, because I am not a clever improviser with lines. I am not a Zach Woods. I do not have that command of language. But I'm like, but perhaps there's much I could say without saying much at all.
00:29:49 Speaker_04
I would say, though, Jenna, you're an excellent emotional improviser because you have great reactions and you react very honestly. That's another form of improv.
00:29:58 Speaker_03
Well, thank you. I think of myself as not a very good improviser, actually. I disagree. I disagree. I feel like I'm a good reactor to improvising, I guess.
00:30:07 Speaker_05
But that's what The Office was all about. That style was reacting as opposed to acting.
00:30:12 Speaker_03
But I remember you giving me a little wink after that moment. Oh, I probably did. Talk about, like, encouraging the actor. And I was like, okay, good. And I, you know, and I wanted to do right by you because you had believed in me for all those years.
00:30:26 Speaker_03
I wanted, you know, I wanted to pay that back by doing a good job.
00:30:30 Speaker_06
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remember them all so vividly, I do. And I would read, Phyllis did the taping. Those were the days where it was VHS tape and we had to transfer the VHS tapes. in real time and make like six copies of each VHS tape.
00:30:44 Speaker_01
Oh my gosh.
00:30:45 Speaker_06
And then send them to NBC or send them to, we had to overnight them to England to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. And you play record and you have to record for 90 minutes while you go through all the auditions.
00:30:59 Speaker_06
Kids don't have to do that these days. It doesn't work and something is digitally recorded.
00:31:03 Speaker_03
I remember being so nervous knowing that you were sending our tapes to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. I probably should never have said anything, I know.
00:31:11 Speaker_03
Well, I think my agent might have told me that, you know, you called them, you're like, any feedback? And they said, well, they did send you to Ricky and Stephen. And I was like, ah.
00:31:23 Speaker_06
I'm like, well, that's good news. Now I'm really scared. I also remember right after your audition, because you were really maybe one of the first four people to read. I don't have the exact number of people, but that was our first session.
00:31:34 Speaker_06
And Terry Weinberg, you did a long audition because we had a lot of pages then to audition. And then Terry said to you, I could watch you read all day long. I remember she said that. I think I even have that on tape, her saying that after your audition.
00:31:47 Speaker_06
So she picked you right off the bat. I love Terry. That's so great. But it was such a long process. But you were a no-brainer to bring in for the first day anyway.
00:31:58 Speaker_06
I do try to bring in who I think are the best for the first day so that the writers get encouraged, etc., etc.
00:32:05 Speaker_03
That's so sweet.
00:32:06 Speaker_06
I'm curious to ask you, how versed were you on the British pilot? Because I had thought that maybe Steve Carell never really watched the British pilot. Steve never did. Because he didn't want to imitate. He never did.
00:32:17 Speaker_04
He never did.
00:32:18 Speaker_06
And what about you guys?
00:32:20 Speaker_04
Oh, I loved it.
00:32:21 Speaker_06
You did? You were aware of it?
00:32:22 Speaker_04
I loved it. But I remember that and I was like, wow, that's going to be huge. and scary and daunting because it was done so well and I was so worried. But I thought if anyone can do it, it'll be Greg.
00:32:33 Speaker_04
If anyone can like give it a really great like second go, it would be Greg.
00:32:39 Speaker_06
And I think NBC had just done coupling and it wasn't, it was not.
00:32:42 Speaker_03
It did not go. It was not a success. It hadn't translated, yeah. No, no. And I remember getting the call about The Office and I was so excited. I had watched the whole thing.
00:32:50 Speaker_02
Yes, so you did, you did.
00:32:52 Speaker_03
And I, I thought, really? They're going to put that on American television? And then I was so worried. Oh, no. Are they going to change it?
00:33:02 Speaker_06
Yeah, right.
00:33:03 Speaker_03
But as soon as I met Greg, and really, as soon as I got the phone call from your office saying, dare to bore me, I was like, oh, they're doing it. They're really going to do it. They're going to take a big swing. And I was excited.
00:33:15 Speaker_06
Yeah, it was something... I remember vividly the first meeting we had with the network when he had a list of names and they were like, let's try Philip Seymour Hoffman and then, you know, let's go for Paul Giamatti or whatever. And I'm so jaded.
00:33:28 Speaker_06
I'm like, they're never going to do... In those days, nobody did TV. TV was the... Comedy was the bottom of the barrel.
00:33:34 Speaker_03
It's so true.
00:33:35 Speaker_06
It was the bottom of the barrel.
00:33:37 Speaker_03
To me, it was the top of the mountain. It's all I ever wanted to do. Me too.
00:33:41 Speaker_06
But for the business, bottom of the barrel. For sure. You're a comedy casting person. You're a comedy actor. You're a comedy writer. You're a comedy director. You couldn't get out of it.
00:33:49 Speaker_06
But anyway, this was the first time, other than Freaks and Geeks, I had the opportunity to get real people who didn't have to be You know, vaudeville funny or sitcom funny, which is a very difficult thing to be.
00:34:02 Speaker_06
And so that just goes back into my past of the various kinds of comedy I have been able to witness being, you know, that's a whole other story, comedy now being in a bit of a coma.
00:34:17 Speaker_03
But they wanted big names like Paul Giamatti?
00:34:20 Speaker_06
Yes, right away they wanted to. That wasn't always the way it was at NBC anyway. Some networks always had to attach a big name. I recall CBS always wanted to attach a big name to get anything going.
00:34:32 Speaker_06
NBC was more into stand-ups at the time and having a deal with it. They always made deals with certain stand-up comedians and developed roles for
00:34:42 Speaker_06
In fact, Steve Carell at the time was under contract to a show for one of the stand-ups they had done a deal with and did probably a nine-episode.
00:34:52 Speaker_03
Tom Papa. Tom Papa. Come to Papa.
00:34:55 Speaker_06
He was on Tom Papa's show and we had to wait for him to be released from that for NBC to even have a shot at getting Steve Carell. But Nancy Perkins, who was the head of casting at NBCUniversal, always knew Steve would be a top choice for this.
00:35:08 Speaker_06
I think everybody pretty much knew Steve would be a top choice for this. But for the first month or so, we couldn't get him. And it was like, oh, OK, well, we'll keep bringing people in. And we brought in the best of the best.
00:35:18 Speaker_06
Everybody was a different version of Michael Scott. That could have worked. Patton Oswalt could have worked. Bob Odenkirk would have been amazing. And all the Dwights we saw could have been a different version of it. That happens in casting a lot.
00:35:30 Speaker_06
You do have a lot of versions.
00:35:32 Speaker_04
On the day I read, you know, I saw that. I remember you standing up there in front of the camera and everything. I do.
00:35:38 Speaker_06
I totally remember. I said, oh, yeah.
00:35:41 Speaker_04
Well, Eric Stonestreet read that day.
00:35:44 Speaker_06
Oh, okay.
00:35:44 Speaker_04
Good. Yeah. For Kevin.
00:35:46 Speaker_06
Yeah.
00:35:46 Speaker_04
Isn't that funny? That's amazing.
00:35:48 Speaker_06
I probably have proof of that. Yeah.
00:35:50 Speaker_03
It was on my sign in. A lot of people wanted to know who was the hardest role to cast. Was it Michael Scott?
00:35:59 Speaker_06
I would say for me as a casting person, the hardest week, no, we had choices for Michael Scott. For me, it wasn't the hardest.
00:36:06 Speaker_06
For me, it was finding a good Brian or a good, it was the supporting cast that we didn't quite know if they would be sustained through the whole show. They were in the British office. So filling out the world was actually tougher.
00:36:20 Speaker_06
Because for smaller roles, as you probably know from your early days in auditioning, it's really hard to be totally real and interesting and fun and just say yes and know it's enough, or no and know it's enough.
00:36:32 Speaker_03
Or yes, or you have one line. One line. Your audition scene is one line. You're like, how do I stand out? How do I show that I can live in this world? It's so much tougher. It's really hard.
00:36:42 Speaker_06
It's even tougher for us because you need to see what can be sustained in the background compared to how amazing they were on the British office. Still, I think the best comedy ever made is the British office, if I can confess that. I do.
00:36:56 Speaker_06
Other than all the family.
00:36:57 Speaker_04
Allison! I know. Sorry. Hey, wait! It's Office Ladies 6.0. She can say that.
00:37:03 Speaker_06
Just because he invented it. But I would say that for me, the hardest was choosing all these amazing people from Groundlings and stuff and really bringing them forward and seeing what Greg could get out of them in terms of characters.
00:37:18 Speaker_06
I mean, the happiest day for me was when Ken Kwapis came up to me and said, Alison, let Phyllis read with the actors. I want to see if she can do it. This was at the testing.
00:37:31 Speaker_06
Because I was reading with Steve Carell and stuff while they had the professional cameraman there taking it. And so Ken just came up to me and asked if I could let Phyllis read. I was like, yeah, that'd be great.
00:37:40 Speaker_06
And he said, maybe she could be in the background. I'm like, oh, my God. Yes. She'll get a day's pay. So anyway, she didn't know at the time that's what was happening. She did not know that Ken had spotted Phyllis as someone who should be on the show.
00:37:54 Speaker_06
So we switched to Phyllis reading and she read, did she read with you and John?
00:37:57 Speaker_02
She read with me.
00:37:59 Speaker_06
She did. Okay. She then started reading with everybody in the room and of course she was great. She read with me. And she read with you.
00:38:05 Speaker_04
Okay. So I think one of the things that helped me a lot was my first audition for the show was for Pam.
00:38:11 Speaker_06
Yes.
00:38:12 Speaker_04
And you and I can share about that. Yes. Right before I got the audition. Well, first of all, Greg reached out to me and he said, and you've been doing improv for years. He had been to every show I had done.
00:38:23 Speaker_04
And I was one of the most annoying people who had three shows a week at some little theater with no parking. So I was doing all these shows and Greg came to all of them. He was so supportive.
00:38:34 Speaker_04
And he was like, Angela, they this is perfect for you because he had done a lot of projects that I had not gone in for because I wasn't right for. But he said, they don't want anyone with credits. I'm like, thanks, Craig.
00:38:47 Speaker_04
Any well-known people, they want people who can, you know, he goes, I want someone who's good on their feet and can improvise. And he was like, so I want you to come in, but here's the deal. No one can know we're related. It will only hurt your chances.
00:39:00 Speaker_04
And I was like, OK, great. And then I went in and I'm in a little tiny lobby room, tiny, tiny little room. It was the bungalow. And it was me and Catherine Hans sitting across from each other. And I was like, oh, s**tballs.
00:39:13 Speaker_06
We had famous people on a couch, I recall. It was a small, crappy little couch.
00:39:17 Speaker_04
And she was so lovely and nice. Yeah. And I went in, and Phyllis was reading, and Greg was in the way, way back, all the way against the back wall. And I finished my audition, and I felt really good about it. I was like, that's the best Pam I can do.
00:39:33 Speaker_04
Although everyone laughed when I called Michael a jerk, and I thought, I don't think people are supposed to laugh here. I think that's supposed to be a moment.
00:39:40 Speaker_06
That was in the fake firing scene.
00:39:42 Speaker_04
Yeah, yeah. And then of course, when I saw Jenna do it as Pam and she like tears up when she calls him a jerk. I was feisty when I called him a jerk.
00:39:49 Speaker_04
But at the end of the audition, I was getting up to leave and Greg like tucked his hands into his body so no one could see. He made like a little cave out of his body and he did two thumbs up and like smiled. And I was like, oh, well, if anything,
00:40:04 Speaker_04
Greg thought I did a good job and that's enough for me, right? And then I got the call that they liked me, but they didn't think I was Pam, which is no surprise.
00:40:14 Speaker_04
And then two months went by and I got a call and they said, we want you to come read for this kind of prickly lady in accounting, but you said to me, don't wear any makeup. Don't try to look cute.
00:40:29 Speaker_04
Like really, an accountant in a small company, no, like really don't do your hair. So I didn't, I didn't do my hair. I pulled it back in a low ponytail and I just wore all gray.
00:40:42 Speaker_04
Cause I was trying to see what do I have that looks businessy, but I didn't really have anything. And I literally wore no makeup, no mascara and like a light, chapstick and went in.
00:40:55 Speaker_04
And I had one line, and I thought that thing that you said, how do you make one line interesting?
00:41:00 Speaker_02
Oh, it's so tough. Yeah.
00:41:01 Speaker_04
And then Ken, after I did my one line, which is, well, I think if they're going to fire someone, it'll probably be me. That was my line. And then after that, Kent had me stay in character and ask me a few questions.
00:41:14 Speaker_04
And that's, I think, what did it, really, was that then they could believe that I'd be this character. They asked me something like, what do you think about Oscar? And I was like, do you have a stapler that works, but you have to push it down?
00:41:29 Speaker_04
It doesn't really always work. And I said something really boring.
00:41:33 Speaker_03
You said a stapler is great, but you still have to push it down. Yeah.
00:41:38 Speaker_04
That's what you think of him. Yeah. So I improvised that. And then, yeah. But you have a whole other side to that story.
00:41:46 Speaker_06
Yes, when we wanted to get you approved. to play the role. By that time, I did know that you were a relative of Greg's.
00:41:52 Speaker_07
You didn't know at first.
00:41:53 Speaker_06
I did not know, no. Greg, though, to his credit, he brought in all of his Simpson writer friends to audition. And I was blown over by how cool and weird these comedy guys were. Because everybody in comedy writing seems to start as a performer.
00:42:07 Speaker_06
It seems that way. Probably Greg did not. I'm guessing he did not.
00:42:09 Speaker_03
I don't think he did.
00:42:10 Speaker_06
No. But I said, I think we have to have a plan. Nobody can say that Angela is part of Greg's, is an in-law, is a sister-in-law.
00:42:21 Speaker_06
So Phyllis and I, Phyllis being before times Phyllis, we said, OK, we're just going to talk about her and try to get her approved, but nobody can ever mention that she's
00:42:32 Speaker_06
a relative or that Greg is actually super familiar with her comedy and her style. So when it came to the time to discuss you, Greg started throwing up all these roadblocks and like was practically blew it. Yeah, he practically blew it.
00:42:45 Speaker_06
And so Phyllis and I were like, oh, we love her. She's great. She's not like any other female on the show. She's not like Pam. And somehow we got you approved, but Greg was testing us or something.
00:42:56 Speaker_04
Greg, I mean, like when I've asked him about it, he was like, I couldn't give it away. I had to like be... He had to be like very skeptical, like, well, are you sure? He was.
00:43:04 Speaker_06
He challenged us and Phyllis and I were like, he's blowing it. Greg, you're over spilling it.
00:43:08 Speaker_01
I can't believe it. That's right.
00:43:10 Speaker_06
Yeah, he was protesting too much. Yeah. However, you did not get it because you were related to Greg. You got it because you were really good. Thank you. I would be the first to stop something that didn't work just because it was a relation. Believe me.
00:43:21 Speaker_04
Well, I believe that. And I also know that Greg wouldn't bring me in.
00:43:25 Speaker_06
No, he wouldn't have.
00:43:26 Speaker_04
Because he was very honest about it.
00:43:28 Speaker_06
Greg was really good at asking improv questions, though. Very, very good at coming up with questions to ask actors that would let them just go for it. Yeah, very smart. Yeah.
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00:46:24 Speaker_03
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00:46:29 Speaker_04
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00:47:32 Speaker_03
So we've talked about you a lot on the podcast before, Allison, and we've had a lot of guests come on who are actors who were on the show, a lot of guest stars, and they tell stories about how you remembered them.
00:47:46 Speaker_03
I mean, I told a story today about how for five years you kept calling me in, and we got fan mail about it. Isabel H. from San Luis Obispo, California said,
00:47:58 Speaker_03
A lot of cast members have mentioned how you remember auditions and think of them for future roles. It's a testament to how special you make actors feel and how much you remember them. It's so touching.
00:48:08 Speaker_03
How do you store all this information and have this kind of recall? And then Caitlin from Syracuse, New York said, please talk about either your seemingly photographic memory or your amazing filing system.
00:48:22 Speaker_03
So many times we have heard actors or guest actors talked about how you remembered them and called them up for a role when it was right for them. How on earth do you keep track of so many people?
00:48:35 Speaker_06
Well, in those days, we actually had memories. We had an actual memory, not a digital memory.
00:48:41 Speaker_06
For me, and for I will again speak for all my colleagues in casting, if we meet somebody that we think is special or gives a good audition, you cannot wait to bring them again to get them apart. And sometimes that takes
00:48:53 Speaker_06
40 auditions before they get something. And you have to just keep bringing them in and bringing them in. But the memory part comes to probably me being old when my brain worked.
00:49:02 Speaker_06
And you do remember, because it's what we do, we do remember somebody who gives a great audition or somebody you bump into and say, oh, I'm glad I bumped into him. I got to bring him in for this, got to bring him in for that role.
00:49:12 Speaker_06
And that's a big part of casting, I think, because what makes you like casting and what makes me like casting is getting the right person for the right role. The remembering part comes from auditioning so many people.
00:49:26 Speaker_06
And certainly I would write down something, remember him for somebody who's grumpy, or remember because this guy was great, this, that, and the other thing. And then you just keep bringing people in. All of casting people do that.
00:49:38 Speaker_06
We just see someone we love, and we can't wait to get them a job. And there's also, we talk with each other all the time. We're like, you've got to meet this person. This person was fabulous. We just have to remember because that is part of our job.
00:49:48 Speaker_06
And also, again, frankly, 30 years ago, you did have a better memory in your own brain than you do now digitally. I mean, I still am not – I have no filing system at all. I look at my old audition sheets. I look at my old auditions.
00:50:03 Speaker_06
If somebody is especially good, people I've met recently that I didn't know, wonderful stand-up named Kat Cohen, I can't wait to get her a really great, great job because she's so good and everybody I know will love her. Am I allowed to say that?
00:50:15 Speaker_02
Yes.
00:50:15 Speaker_06
She'll be thrilled. She's pretty famous in the stand-up world. So when I see someone come along and I know that person is effing fabulous. I will not stop until I get them something good."
00:50:28 Speaker_06
And at my early days, the office early days, it was Kristen Schaal, people like that. It was Jenna Fisher. It was just those people you had to work. Neil Casey, all these unbelievers. Zach Woods, Aubrey.
00:50:39 Speaker_06
Just had to meet them and you're like, I got to get them in. Got to meet Mike Shore, got to meet Greg Daniels. because that is my job. And it's also, thank God, what I like about it.
00:50:48 Speaker_06
So for whatever proclivity I have for actors and comedy people and people who make me laugh and people who are clearly very talented, maybe better at drama than comedy, blah, blah, blah, blah, we remember them because we like them and we can focus on that.
00:51:04 Speaker_06
You know, it's a whole discussion about how memory works, but still, I do not have any kind of digital anything now. I don't watch, I should, but I don't watch enough TikTok or YouTube or anything like that.
00:51:16 Speaker_06
I sort of remember visually as well, I think I remember visually. To get technical, yeah.
00:51:20 Speaker_03
Yeah. Do you also go to see Groundling shows or UCB shows? Oh yes, yes. Not as much as I used to.
00:51:26 Speaker_02
Like kind of scouting?
00:51:27 Speaker_03
Is that like a scouting thing?
00:51:29 Speaker_06
I don't, I never per se went scouting, but I mean, as I'm here scouting or anything, like the poor agents have to do sometimes. They go to an industry night and they see if they should sign certain people or whatever.
00:51:39 Speaker_06
We also have a network of comedy managers who need to get more credit than they ever get. I didn't discover anybody. The comedy manager discovered that person before I brought them in. You know, Christy Smith discovered Charlene Yi.
00:51:53 Speaker_06
Jimmy Miller discovered everybody. Dave Becky. They discovered all these people and brought them up from nothing and encouraged them and put together these shows with them and all the greats are with all these unbelievable comedy managers.
00:52:09 Speaker_06
So I give them all the credit for doing the discovering.
00:52:11 Speaker_02
Well, that's how I feel about Naomi. Naomi, everybody she signs ends up on SNL.
00:52:16 Speaker_06
Bill Hader, Kristen Wiig, Jerry Minor. Yep, exactly. So for whatever reason, whatever thing we have in our brains that makes us focus on, I mean, we can visually and hear people in our brains. Maybe we're all psychos. I don't know.
00:52:32 Speaker_06
But whatever that is, company managers need to have a lot more credit, too. Do they get credit? I don't know. I don't even know. But I always say I didn't discover a soul. They all came from these great
00:52:41 Speaker_06
managers and agents, and then slowly improv comedy kind of got a presence in the comedy world, and we would bring those people into audition.
00:52:50 Speaker_04
Let's see, we have a question here from Kimberly Ness from Rochester, Minnesota, writes in and says, Allison, what was your all-time favorite episode of The Office and why? Wow.
00:53:03 Speaker_03
I mean, it could be as a fan or from a casting perspective, I guess. Yeah.
00:53:08 Speaker_06
Well, it would be both. My all-time favorite episode, it probably, as a fan, was the basketball one when Stanley was bouncing the basketball and he couldn't do it, that episode.
00:53:19 Speaker_06
And I think I went to the set that day, so I saw a little bit of it, so it was my favorite. That had to have been my all-time favorite episode. It's not everybody else's all-time favorite episode.
00:53:27 Speaker_04
That's one of our all-time favorites.
00:53:28 Speaker_06
Oh, it is? That's a pretty great episode.
00:53:30 Speaker_04
And also,
00:53:32 Speaker_06
Phyllis's wedding, for obvious reasons, because it was Phyllis and she was so good, and also Jim and Pam's wedding, for sure. And then you came dancing down the aisle like that YouTube video. I think they took that from the YouTube video.
00:53:43 Speaker_04
They did.
00:53:44 Speaker_06
Yeah, so that was pretty cool. I think those were my favorite episodes, for sure.
00:53:48 Speaker_04
Well, Allison, we just got so much mail for you because our fans just adore you and the work that you've done on creating The Office and so many of their favorite shows. So I wanted to read you this. This is from Brenna C. in New York.
00:54:01 Speaker_04
Hi Allison, not a question, but just wanted to say how much of an impact you have had on the television industry throughout the years.
00:54:09 Speaker_04
It is so comforting and delightful to be watching a sitcom from a decade within the last 30 plus years and see your name pop up. You have been directly responsible for the most beloved characters on our screens and that does not go unnoticed by fans.
00:54:24 Speaker_04
That's so nice. Anyone who knows TV knows Alison Jones. We see you and we appreciate you. Thank you for taking chances on people who are trying to live their dreams because it makes dreams real for millions of people from that point on.
00:54:40 Speaker_06
Thank you, Brenna.
00:54:41 Speaker_04
Isn't that so lovely?
00:54:42 Speaker_06
Yes, that's amazing. Yes, thank you so much. Yes.
00:54:46 Speaker_04
And we got a lot of letters like that. That's incredible.
00:54:49 Speaker_03
Yeah. I mean, for me, Allison, I was out here for eight years. And you were the casting director that kept calling me back. I just needed you, really, to believe in me and give me that access to those parts.
00:55:08 Speaker_01
Right.
00:55:09 Speaker_03
And that is what changed my life. But it also kept me going. I mean, just the fact that every six or seven months, Alison Jones would call with a part for me. Maybe it was just a guest star. Maybe it was a new pilot.
00:55:25 Speaker_03
That was why I wasn't flying back home to St. Louis and giving up.
00:55:28 Speaker_06
Yes, right, right.
00:55:29 Speaker_03
Was because my phone would ring and you would bring me in.
00:55:33 Speaker_06
Right. And I so appreciate it. Oh, you're so welcome. And also, I'm so proud. You're both so good at this, this podcast thing. It's quite amazing. Thank you. But I would say that that is a large amount of faith that we have in people and in actors.
00:55:50 Speaker_06
And what I want, when actors ask about what's the thing that you can advise actors on, or what is the one word you have for actors, and I say tenacity.
00:55:59 Speaker_06
Faith for the people who have to choose you, leap of faith for the people who have to choose you, and for actors, tenacity. So many actors. God bless him, Ken Jeong. I brought him in so many times. for a curb. He finally got a curb.
00:56:13 Speaker_06
He finally got an office. And now Ken is doing okay. But yes, we have faith and you have to have the tenacity. And that is the big story of many successful actors, I think, having the tenacity.
00:56:30 Speaker_03
My acting coach he used to say, success is opportunity meets readiness. You can't control the opportunities, but you can control the readiness. So you just be ready for when Ellison Jones calls, basically. You're the opportunity piece. Oh, good.
00:56:47 Speaker_03
Thank you very much. And I just tried to always be ready. And he also said the key is building a consistent body of work. So that every time, and he would literally use your name because you were the casting director that was calling.
00:57:04 Speaker_03
He would say, every time Allison calls, you are ready and you show her a consistent body of work. And if you do those two things, eventually, eventually, the right fit will find you.
00:57:17 Speaker_06
Right. My first boss to whom I owe everything, the late Judith Wiener. Anyway, I owe her everything in terms of any kind of casting theory. But she used to always say, there is one perfect part for every actor. And I believe that.
00:57:32 Speaker_06
She said, there's one perfect part for every actor. And keep bringing them in. Yeah.
00:57:36 Speaker_04
Thank you for fighting for us. Oh, please. We know you did. Yeah, we do all the time. We know we wouldn't be here without you, Allison, truly. Oh, thank you. It means so much to us. Really, I'll get choked up. Thank you for this. Yeah, no, I would too.
00:57:50 Speaker_04
You changed our lives.
00:57:52 Speaker_06
After I came back to the office, after interviewing with Greg and everybody, I remember saying to Phyllis, the before times Phyllis, God, I hope I get this job. I think it would be one of the most important jobs I've ever had. This show is fantastic.
00:58:05 Speaker_06
It's The Office, blah, blah, blah, blah. And little did I know it was more important for Phyllis. hugely life-changing and important for me, but at the time, who knew? Who knew? It was really important for Phyllis. So amazing.
00:58:22 Speaker_06
And for the people who make Inside Out. Yeah. How proud are we of Phyllis? She's amazing.
00:58:28 Speaker_04
So amazing.
00:58:28 Speaker_06
I was crying, yeah, at that, that you just said. Hi, Phyllis. So happy for Phyllis.
00:58:33 Speaker_03
So happy for Phyllis. Well, Alison, this was absolutely delightful. Is there any memory or anything that we have not touched on that you'd like to share with our listeners? I'm going to look through our questions.
00:58:47 Speaker_06
Yes, I would like to share you had a question there that you didn't ask. Oh, you had asked on the questions. something about a special phone call.
00:58:57 Speaker_03
Oh, yes. Here it is. Read that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes. This was my question. This is from Jenna F. in Los Angeles. Yes, I love it. Oh, Jenna F. writes in sometimes. Okay, Jenna. Yeah. Okay.
00:59:06 Speaker_03
Jenna said, I'm sure it's great to call and tell someone that they got a role, but you have to make a dozen other calls to tell all the other people that they didn't get the role. And what's that like?
00:59:19 Speaker_06
Telling the actors they got the roles is the job of mostly the managers and the agents. So we have to call and tell the agents and the managers that their client did or didn't get the role.
00:59:29 Speaker_06
And the one I remember the most is you, Jenna Fischer, when you got the office. I probably, the worst call was having to tell Bob Odenkirke he didn't get the office. But I was able to tell the people who got the office they got the office.
00:59:43 Speaker_06
So I called up Michael Green.
00:59:45 Speaker_03
That was my agent at the time.
00:59:46 Speaker_06
Your agent at the time, Michael Green. And they always know what you're calling about right after a test. And I said, hi, Michael. And the import of it hit me as much as it probably hit him and would have hit you.
00:59:59 Speaker_06
I said, I am calling to tell you that Jenna Fisher got the office. exactly what I said. And there was silence. There was silence. I think he was probably crying a little bit. I was even getting emotional.
01:00:14 Speaker_03
I'm getting emotional now.
01:00:15 Speaker_06
Because for some reason at the time, it hit me that that was a big f*** deal for Jenna Fisher to get the office.
01:00:23 Speaker_03
It was a big deal for me.
01:00:24 Speaker_06
And who even knew at the time what would happen with The Office?
01:00:27 Speaker_03
Yeah.
01:00:28 Speaker_06
You know, so that is the one that I remember the most. I hate having to call. I hate making those calls. It falls on us, of course, God forbid. Over the years, I've had to call and actually fire actors from a set. It's awful.
01:00:40 Speaker_06
No, it's awful because people don't man up and do it themselves, you know, directors and things. They don't want to do that kind of thing. So we get to do the dirty work.
01:00:48 Speaker_06
So what it's like is it's awful, but it's great to be able to tell an agent or a manager that their client got a huge role that we know will be life changing. And even the best are the small roles that will be life changing.
01:01:03 Speaker_06
When I get to hire somebody phenomenal for one line on Curb Your Enthusiasm, and they're the ones who send bottles of wine and flowers, it's like you're spending your whole salary and it's one line. But to them, it's the start of everything.
01:01:17 Speaker_06
So that's what's the greatest part of casting, is getting these people you believe in, finally getting them the gigs. And it takes so long. Jack Black used to come in for one-line parts all the time, and he killed it.
01:01:29 Speaker_06
And talk about a person who could kill one line, it was Jack Black. I could kill in a good way. And when he finally started getting the parts, it was phenomenal.
01:01:37 Speaker_06
You know, the rest is history for Jack Black, but still probably a full decade of Jack Black. But anyway, it's the small parts that are pretty amazing, too, and the unknown people to get a part. You know that it's a joyful, wonderful thing.
01:01:49 Speaker_03
Alison, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming in.
01:01:53 Speaker_04
Yes, Alison, thank you. You had such a deeply impactful role in casting The Office and I'm just so excited to share this interview with our fans.
01:02:08 Speaker_03
Well, I just loved that so much. You know, Angela, I realize we never even cracked open her three pins of stuff. I know, but she said she'll bring them back any time. We all laughed about it after we finished the interview.
01:02:20 Speaker_03
We were like, Alison, you carry those all the way up. Oh my goodness. And I just love getting to see her in person. We've traded so many emails back and forth over the years of doing this podcast.
01:02:32 Speaker_03
And Angela, I know you ran into her recently, but I had not seen her in person in so long, and it was so great.
01:02:38 Speaker_04
It was. It was just so wonderful. Well, thank you, everyone, for writing in with your questions. They were just terrific.
01:02:44 Speaker_03
And let us know who you want us to talk to next. And don't forget, on Monday, we are going to start rerunning our rewatch. starting with the pilot. And we have some really fun second drink tidbits for that one.
01:02:58 Speaker_03
We're gonna pop on before every episode and give you some new thoughts and observations about those episodes. And some new nuggets that we're finding.
01:03:06 Speaker_04
All right, you guys, we hope you had a great Wednesday. We will see you next week for more Office Ladies 6.0. See you then. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.
01:03:22 Speaker_04
Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
01:03:28 Speaker_03
Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbaco. Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman and Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.
01:03:43 Speaker_04
Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.