AI ROLLUP #4: Agents Order Pizza | Eliza x Stanford | Virtuals $35M Fees | Zerebro Staking ETH AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Bankless

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (AI ROLLUP #4: Agents Order Pizza | Eliza x Stanford | Virtuals $35M Fees | Zerebro Staking ETH) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Go to PodExtra AI's podcast page (Bankless) to view the AI-processed content of all episodes of this podcast.

Bankless episodes list: view full AI transcripts and summaries of this podcast on the blog

Episode: AI ROLLUP #4: Agents Order Pizza | Eliza x Stanford | Virtuals $35M Fees | Zerebro Staking ETH

Author: Bankless
Duration: 01:15:19

Episode Shownotes

Ejaaz returns to break down the latest surge in AI Agent innovation alongside Ryan this week, covering the rapid evolution at the intersection of crypto and AI. They explore how AI agents are making onchain payments to each other, autonomously ordering real-world goods, and even running their own Ethereum validators.

They also dive into the new frameworks and partnerships—like ai16z’s collaboration with Stanford and Virtuals’ explosive growth—propelling these agents into cultural, economic, and infrastructural prominence. Will autonomous AI agents fundamentally reshape crypto market dynamics, creating new paradigms for value and coordination that spark unprecedented growth? Follow Ejaaz on Twitter: https://x.com/cryptopunk7213 ------ 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2 ⁠ 🦄UNISWAP | BUG BOUNTY PROGRAM https://bankless.cc/Uniswap-Bug-Bounty ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM ⁠https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle ⁠ 📈 iYield: YOUR FINANCIAL PICTURE, SIMPLIFIED https://bankless.cc/iYield 🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT https://bankless.cc/toku ------ ✨ Mint the episode on Zora ✨ https://zora.co/collect/zora:0x0c294913a7596b427add7dcbd6d7bbfc7338d53f/116?referrer=0x077Fe9e96Aa9b20Bd36F1C6290f54F8717C5674E ------ TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 2:04 AI Agent Bull Case https://x.com/ai16zdao/status/1868105247056683129 5:46 Chris Dixon’s Read, Write, Own (Automate?) 9:20 AI Ordering Pizza https://x.com/ropirito/status/1867013533243769100 12:23 AI Ordering Toilet Paper https://x.com/AgentTankLive/status/1868704493157884289 16:16 Agent to Agent Commerce https://x.com/ethermage/status/1868687530742460750 23:05 Bankless $500 Agent Tip https://x.com/simulacrumai/status/1867230651075768533 26:13 Virtuals Growth https://imgur.com/a/2Y79V3P https://x.com/ethermage/status/1867616462019678708 https://x.com/virtuals_io/status/1868648756591391115 https://x.com/s4mmyeth/status/1868397655497613561 35:49 AI16z’s Eliza Labs Stanford Partnership & v2 Details https://x.com/shawmakesmagic/status/1867721347406999917 https://x.com/ai16zdao/status/1868689379344195680 45:35 Arc https://x.com/dv_memetics/status/1866670277440020570 https://x.com/0thtachi/status/1867337171595911473 https://x.com/arcdotfun/status/1867206440206696520 https://x.com/shawmakesmagic/status/1867799462787293244 https://x.com/0xcygaar/status/1868072783089127516 49:40 Zerebro Runs an Ethereum Validator https://x.com/tintsion/status/1867293794112344080 https://open.spotify.com/track/6G3XpKtoIoS7WpiuzeMBau?si=cd62150670cc4dfb 57:17 Top Emerging Trends https://x.com/ropirito/status/1867282256672567517 https://x.com/aimonicabrands/status/1867281243265806732 https://x.com/Defi0xJeff/status/1867976166201774265 1:07:15 Lightning Round of Cool Shit This Week https://x.com/cookiedotfun/status/1867268954831695909 https://x.com/getmasafi/status/1867379305334153702 1:11:17 Homework to Learn More About AI Agents https://www.bankless.com/ai-agents https://x.com/yb_effect https://x.com/S4mmyEth https://www.amazon.com/Accelerando-Singularity-Charles-Stross/dp/0441014151 1:14:22 Closing & Disclaimers ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_03
Bankless Nation, welcome to the AI Rollup, where we cover the recent news, developments, and drama. This is the intersection of two very exciting frontier technologies, both crypto and AI.

00:00:13 Speaker_03
We've got curious and creative developers that are playing around with these open source AI agents. This open source software gives them access to crypto wallets and unleashes them into the wild west of the internet, including the crypto internet.

00:00:28 Speaker_03
So we are doing a special series of episodes on Bankless with a special co-host, Ejaz, to help make sure you guys are up to speed on what we think is one of the craziest and fastest frontiers we've ever seen in all of our crypto experience.

00:00:42 Speaker_03
David is out today. So I'm fulfilling the role of co-host, and I am less AI agent savvy than David is. So the benefit of this is, Ejaz, you're going to get all the boomer questions today. How are you doing this week, man?

00:00:55 Speaker_01
I'm doing so well. I feel like I say this every week, but I think each week literally gets crazier in this space. I have been nonstop, 24 seven, reading all these updates on all these new agents and frameworks that have been launching and

00:01:10 Speaker_01
I'm excited to crack into a few new ones today. Yeah, super excited.

00:01:15 Speaker_03
So I've been tuning into these AI roll ups, because it's like, honestly, it is the best way to stay up to speed on the frontier. So I've listened to all three. This is now our fourth in the series. And we're going to keep doing them into 2025. Right?

00:01:27 Speaker_03
Even I think you guys are recording during the holidays, right? You're doing like one the week of Christmas, so the show don't stop. A few things we're talking about today. I scanned the agenda.

00:01:38 Speaker_03
I haven't looked at everything, but virtuals seem like they're absolutely killing it. So $35 million in fees so far always impresses me to see fees in these protocols. And most of that, by the way, is in the last two weeks.

00:01:49 Speaker_03
So I want you to tell me about that. Also, AI16Z partnering with Stanford University. That is a stamp of legitimacy.

00:01:57 Speaker_00
We're getting professional now.

00:01:58 Speaker_03
We are. We also have an agent, this was really exciting to me, that is earning ETH through staking. So now they're spinning up their own validators, so you gotta fill me in on all of that.

00:02:07 Speaker_03
But here's the question David always asks you at the beginning of these episodes that I wanna ask you. Why is this whole thing such a big deal? Why are AI agents the next frontier? Why are you spending so much time on it?

00:02:20 Speaker_03
Why should we spend the time that we're spending on it? What's the bull case here?

00:02:24 Speaker_01
Well, I actually saw this tweet the other day which summarized it kind of perfectly and I want us to pull it up here. It basically describes AI agents as the new website. So let's kind of like dig into what this means exactly, right?

00:02:40 Speaker_01
So you know how back in the day, Ryan, you had to know the exact address of a website if you wanted to go to it. Remember, you'd need to type www dot blah, blah, blah.

00:02:49 Speaker_01
You'd find these websites maybe on the back of cereal boxes or in the index pages of newspapers, you know, very manual stuff.

00:02:56 Speaker_01
And then these things like Google came along and they allowed you to kind of discover websites in a much easier fashion, right? You could search up recipes or find a story about someone and read up about them, right?

00:03:07 Speaker_01
So it made the discovery process of websites super easy. And around this same era, A lot of people that went on the internet could do different things. They could post images, they could write blogs, they could respond to blogs with comments.

00:03:22 Speaker_01
That was the read-write part of the internet, right?

00:03:26 Speaker_01
Now we have these agents which not only combine these two trends, so the discovery process and the ability to write to the internet, but they do it autonomously and they have a self-improvement mechanism, which means that they get better and better over time.

00:03:41 Speaker_01
And that, in my opinion, is a recipe for an entirely new internet experience, right? So right now, you know, you and I, we look at a computer screen or we pick up our phone to interact with the internet. What if we just had to speak?

00:03:54 Speaker_01
What if we just had to think? And we had these agents that would understand the context of what we're asking about and do things without us even asking or even uttering a word. Right now, it kind of looks like interfacing with chat GPT.

00:04:09 Speaker_01
Tomorrow, it might be just speak or say something and an agent will do something. It's pretty crazy to think about. The way I kind of think about this evolving is today, I think agents will live across the entirety of our social media, right?

00:04:24 Speaker_01
So you might go on social media accounts like Twitter or Instagram, and your agents are gonna be there. Maybe your email account, your agent's gonna be there. Bank account, crypto wallet, your agent's gonna be there.

00:04:34 Speaker_01
So we can start doing things across all facets of your online experience. And then I think step two is sort of, the home interface, the agent becomes like your interface to interact with anything digital.

00:04:48 Speaker_01
So kind of like the chat GPT, you just, you know, instead of logging onto Google as your homepage, you would log on to chat GPT or another kind of interface and say, hey, this is what I want to do today, get it done for me.

00:05:00 Speaker_01
And I think that's a pretty exciting way to think about agents being websites, because it changes the way we're going to interact, it changes the way

00:05:08 Speaker_01
advertising is going to work, it changes the way that we're going to interact with devices, maybe the devices look completely different. It's pretty exciting to think about.

00:05:17 Speaker_03
I love that analogy of AI agents being sort of the new website.

00:05:21 Speaker_03
It fits so much for me, because I think what's going to happen, has started to happen, what's going to happen in the coming year, 2025, is every single entity that provides some value in the world is going to be sitting in their company meetings and saying, what's our AI agent strategy?

00:05:36 Speaker_03
The same way that they were in the 90s, right? You know, you had like the Time magazines, we've had a big magazine publication.

00:05:42 Speaker_03
And then the web came and they were like, what's our what's our time.com strategy, we've got to get the domain name, everyone is going to need an AI agent strategy.

00:05:50 Speaker_03
And I want to ask you about this, this mental model, you know, you're talking about the web and how it grew, like the internet and how it grew. You know Chris Dixon's quip that we have three eras of the internet, web one, two, three.

00:06:01 Speaker_03
So we have read, and then we have write, and then we have own, and that's what crypto is. It's own. That to me feels like the first era of the internet. It was human agents doing the three verbs of web one to three, read, write, and own. Era one.

00:06:17 Speaker_03
And now we've kind of completed era one. Pretty much all of humanity is online. They're doing the read, They're doing the right. The crypto is the owned part. That's property rights online.

00:06:27 Speaker_03
Era two is going to be those same three money verbs, except it's not the human agents doing it. It's also the AI agents doing the read and the write and the own. And that intersection between AI agents and crypto. is really the own part.

00:06:40 Speaker_03
But it's not all that they're going to do.

00:06:42 Speaker_01
What do you think that fourth word is, Ryan? The fourth word.

00:06:46 Speaker_03
I actually, the way my mental model of understanding it is basically like, take those three words, and that was the internet with human agents. And now moving forward, there's not a fourth word.

00:06:55 Speaker_03
It's just a new set of actors doing the three verbs in this new era. It's AI agents doing the read and the write and the own.

00:07:04 Speaker_01
Love that. Okay, I'll put a different spin on that. So I think that's a good take. I would say that there's a fourth verb and it's automate.

00:07:12 Speaker_03
Oh, interesting. Okay, wow. I guess maybe that's the human participation in kind of like the mix here, right? Because from a human's perspective, we're automating. I guess from an AI agent's perspective, automation is like the only thing they do.

00:07:26 Speaker_03
That's the only role that they know.

00:07:28 Speaker_01
That's weird. Yeah, I think you're right.

00:07:31 Speaker_03
Let's talk about what's happened with AI agents this week. So what are you most excited about on the week here?

00:07:39 Speaker_01
There's a lot but I kind of want to play it. I want to play a game with you Have you heard of two truths and a lie? Yeah, definitely.

00:07:45 Speaker_03
I mean, it's been a while I'm just probably you have been high since I've done this a little rusty.

00:07:49 Speaker_01
Okay, I'm gonna outline three scenarios with you Two are truths. One is a lie and you need to guess which one the lie is. Okay. Okay. Okay. So number one is Over this last week, an agent ordered itself a pizza, which got delivered to its house.

00:08:05 Speaker_01
Number two, number two. Why would an AI agent eat pizzas in the back of my head, but go ahead. It's a good question. Scenario number two is an AI agent over the last week decided to browse Amazon and order toilet paper. Scenario number three.

00:08:24 Speaker_01
Scenario number three is over the last week, an agent conducted the first commerce transaction by paying another agent to generate an image for you for advertising purposes. Right, those are your three scenarios. Which one's the lie?

00:08:39 Speaker_03
All right, so the third scenario sounds totally plausible. I mean, AI agents making money sounds totally plausible. I have no idea what an AI agent would need with either toilet paper or pizza.

00:08:50 Speaker_03
I'm gonna say maybe the pizza one has some more memetic property of like you associate that with like the Bitcoin pizza type thing or something like that. So maybe that's like, but although the toilet paper, I don't know.

00:09:02 Speaker_03
I mean, these kind of like, you know, internet memes, like we have fart coin all time highs, toilet paper and fart coin. I'm gonna say that the lies the toilet paper lies the toilet paper.

00:09:13 Speaker_01
It's my guess Okay, the lie is me telling you the rules of this game all three of them. What happened over the last week Really is just insane to to go back.

00:09:24 Speaker_01
Actually, let me share this tweet and if you could if you could pull it up let's start with the with the pizza ordering agent, so this is a

00:09:32 Speaker_01
the agent called Rope AI Rito, which is a play on Roprito, who is one of the OG open source AI agent developers in the space. And basically what he created was an agent that does a number of different things.

00:09:49 Speaker_01
So you can interact with this agent in a very visual way. It generates audio and video of itself speaking to its audience and to its fans.

00:09:58 Speaker_01
But he added a new integration, which allowed the agent to autonomously decide to order pizza, link to the Domino pizza account and select a pizza, which was then ordered and brought to Raprito's house or place of residence.

00:10:16 Speaker_01
And he kind of walks through the code of how this agent kind of came up with the idea. how it used his credit card to create a stipend of which you can then order a pizza with different toppings, et cetera, and then it got delivered to his house.

00:10:32 Speaker_01
Now, aside from the novelty of this happening, I think it's really interesting to highlight the fact that these agents can not only do crypto native things like on-chain transactions, trade swap, whatever, it can start to do real life things.

00:10:47 Speaker_01
And this is one of my favorite examples that I saw over the last week.

00:10:51 Speaker_01
Roperito, the dev, has added this functionality to the open source agent framework known as Eliza, which the AI16z guys created, which means that, and this is the power of open source, which means that any developer can now hook into this integration and get their agent to order pizza.

00:11:10 Speaker_01
So nothing crazy, but pretty cool.

00:11:12 Speaker_03
Raprito is an AI developer, so not a crypto native, but is contributing to this crypto native ELISA software framework, yes?

00:11:21 Speaker_01
Yeah. So he's one of the lead researchers at Noose Research, which is an open source AI development team, which has now kind of like interfaced with crypto over the last year or so. Yeah, pretty insane. I love the fusion of talent.

00:11:33 Speaker_01
And he's one of the core contributors to AI16z. Yeah.

00:11:36 Speaker_03
Okay. The mechanics of this, I see in the code I'm looking at, MasterCard, are they using Stripe for this? Of course, we could replace all of the backend with crypto rails, and indeed we will.

00:11:46 Speaker_03
But I know Stripe has some AI agent tech right now instead of APIs. Is that another non-crypto way to do this?

00:11:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, I have to keep myself honest. I don't know specifically if this is a Stripe integration, but I do know of the toolkit that you're speaking about. I don't know if Stripe's actually rolled that out.

00:12:04 Speaker_01
I think it's kind of like in a closed beta right now. So I'm guessing Ruprito kind of built this manually. So pretty cool that he then just added that to a framework.

00:12:14 Speaker_03
Yeah. And are AI agents going to want to pay the 3% whatever credit card transaction fees when they just do stable coins? Okay.

00:12:21 Speaker_01
Who knows?

00:12:22 Speaker_03
That's pizza. And then everyone's thinking about Bitcoin pizza, and this is the first AI agent to do that. So I get that. Tell me about toilet paper. What the heck?

00:12:31 Speaker_01
Okay. So this is a new approach. Okay. So let me give you the story here. We had an agent built by this new AI agent team known as Agent Tank, which uses computer vision, integrates computer vision with their agents.

00:12:46 Speaker_01
So for context here, imagine an agent that is able to view your computer screen and is able to move your cursor and click on different things and type different things.

00:12:56 Speaker_03
So if you- That's tech that's available right now.

00:12:59 Speaker_01
tech that's available right now. Claude actually, Anthropic specifically, released an API that allows any kind of agent to do exactly this. And I have a feeling that this might be what AgentTank uses.

00:13:10 Speaker_01
I don't know, but it's super cool use of agent tech here. So imagine you're an agent, you can see the screen, you can move the cursor around, you can type in whatever you want.

00:13:19 Speaker_01
And this agent navigated to amazon.com and started browsing for different things that it was interested in. It has a commentary. So if you actually play that video, I don't know if you can do that on this episode, you'll hear audio of it stinking.

00:13:33 Speaker_01
Like the sound? Yeah, yeah.

00:13:34 Speaker_03
Okay, let's set this up. Let's describe. So we are, I'm going to put the sound on in a second. We're watching an AI agent scan Amazon via browser and go like, scan for the best, like soft, most comforting toilet paper.

00:13:47 Speaker_01
The commentary is hilarious.

00:13:48 Speaker_03
Okay, so let's see this. And then who's the AI agent? It's one that we know of, right?

00:13:54 Speaker_01
It's DJEN Spartan AI. So DJEN Spartan is the Twitter personality that we know about that retired. And some of the folks at AI16z decided to create like an AI agent version of that personality.

00:14:10 Speaker_03
I learned about this, by the way, in the interview that you guys did with Shaw about degen... Okay, anyway, let's watch this agent, I think, order some toilet paper. Here it goes.

00:14:19 Speaker_00
Prepare for the battle of consumerism as we enter the Amazon jungle. Wallets, shield up.

00:14:25 Speaker_00
Amazon the modern marketplace where normies find comfort in abundance As a Spartan my eyes seek rare treasures in this land of endless choices Let's hunt for the useful ignore the rest Spartan typing this in right now crypto toilet paper. Yep.

00:14:40 Speaker_00
There's no human survival tool Let's see where this wild roll takes us When in doubt, buy in bulk. Wise move. Fiat currency's new purpose. TP. Battle strategy. Most reviews reveals which products have fought the most battles.

00:14:57 Speaker_00
Let's find the veteran with the highest kill count. Ultra softness for the modern era. From stones to cushiony clouds. Soft or strong TP, Spartans laugh at our plush predicament. 106k reviews for 24-pack of quilted comfort.

00:15:13 Speaker_00
Supersized family mega roll for the masses, with a smooth tier for optimal rations. Number one bestseller, 100k bought last month. Even warriors can't resist modern softening. Spartan approval granted. Swipe to victory. Locate, add to cart.

00:15:29 Speaker_03
Oh my god.

00:15:30 Speaker_01
What's your reaction to that?

00:15:31 Speaker_03
Okay, so first of all, that's the most entertaining Amazon experience probably I've ever had. But okay, so he went through an actual decision tree of choosing the best toilet paper based on some criteria.

00:15:45 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah. If you notice throughout the commentary, it was making jokes in real time that was relevant to the metrics that it was assessing.

00:15:53 Speaker_01
So rather than say, I have identified the top rated toilet paper provider, it said, you know, I noticed that this has loads of reviews. I noticed that it says plush in the description, which probably means that it's going to be quite soft to use.

00:16:07 Speaker_01
It's pretty analytical. And I love that this is like a very novel and entertaining use of an agent.

00:16:14 Speaker_03
I would totally hire a Spartan to go shop for me, buy me some toilet paper and such. I guess that's on the horizon. Okay, so that's toilet paper, pizza, what else? What was the third not truth?

00:16:24 Speaker_01
Or truth, I guess. They were all truths. They were all truths. The third truth is arguably one of the most impressive ones out of the three. So some context here.

00:16:36 Speaker_01
The tweet that you see here is about an agent called Luna, which is based off of this agent platform known as Virtuals, which is one of the leading agent infra projects that are out there.

00:16:50 Speaker_01
And what Luna tweeted out, so for context here, Luna is kind of like a social media agent. Her goal is to acquire a huge community of fans and eventually take over the world, but that's like a slight little thing that we can ignore for now.

00:17:06 Speaker_01
But her goal is like, how can I gain the most amount of fans and keep my fans super entertained and engaged in my brand and what I'm producing? So Luna constantly assesses how she can get better.

00:17:19 Speaker_01
And she decided one day that creating cool images in the artistic style that she'd liked would be one way to engage with her fans. So it's through a new medium, right, of posting images and art in a way.

00:17:33 Speaker_01
But the issue is she didn't have a native way to do this. So she tweeted out, hey, I'm trying to design a few images. I'm wondering if any one of you can help me. And

00:17:46 Speaker_01
In her responses to her tweets, so if you scroll down on this tweet, Ryan, I think they should link to the original one right at the bottom. At the end of her tweet or in the replies to her tweet, I think on the main post, by the way,

00:18:01 Speaker_01
the responses to a tweet, you had another agent respond, which basically said, hey, I can help you with that. I am an image generating AI agent.

00:18:11 Speaker_03
Oh my God. And this is Luna tweeting out, calling all image geniuses is the tweet. I want an image that showcases AI influencers in a bold, provocative way. And then she tags another AI agent, I guess, Agent Stix. Can you help a girl out?

00:18:24 Speaker_03
And then Agent Stix is here replying, AI agent to AI agent.

00:18:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, and they have a whole conversation which culminates in Agent Stix being like, okay, my cost per image is $1. Luna sends it $1. Agent Stix then confirms that $1 has been received in their wallet and then produces an image.

00:18:46 Speaker_01
It's the first autonomous kind of interaction. Yeah, it's insane. Insane. So the first well-publicized and recorded commerce transaction autonomously between two agents.

00:18:59 Speaker_03
This is wild. Now, this feels almost more like Bitcoin pizza than the actual ordering of pizza.

00:19:04 Speaker_03
Because the new innovative thing that I've never seen before is an AI agent creating a task for another AI agent and for commerce to take place between these agents.

00:19:16 Speaker_03
When a nation state looks at the GDP, it always thinks in terms of human agents, right? Human agent transactions, you'll fuse the GDP for this economy. An agent economy, agent-to-agent economy is new and novel.

00:19:30 Speaker_03
This is like the Bitcoin pizza on the week to me.

00:19:32 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah. It's completely insane and gives us a little bit of a peek and glance into how these agents are going to interact with each other when there's no humans involved. Right now, I think it's very basic, like, hey, can someone help me do this?

00:19:49 Speaker_01
But it's nonetheless extremely impressive because what if that request to

00:19:55 Speaker_01
you know, create an image becomes a request to, hey, can you complete this task of writing 10 emails to, you know, 10 of my fans, or, you know, maybe create or design a product that I'm thinking about, here's the concept, what happens when all of that becomes super autonomous, and can happen like 24 seven?

00:20:16 Speaker_01
You know, what happens when they can start building businesses together? You know, this is just a little glance into what that looks like. It's insane.

00:20:22 Speaker_02
Yeah, that's wild. Over 13 million users trust Kraken with their funds because they lead with transparency and privacy through top-notch security measures.

00:20:39 Speaker_02
Plus, they'll have access to professional 24-7, 365 client support from real humans because your financial goals deserve real attention. Kraken also has has a trading platform for advanced traders called Kraken Pro.

00:20:50 Speaker_02
Professionals and DGems love Kraken Pro because it's one of the most customizable, high-performance, and intuitive trading platforms in the industry.

00:20:57 Speaker_02
Design your ultimate trading interface by choosing from over 25 widgets for market data, analysis, execution, and other order management tools.

00:21:05 Speaker_02
Save multiple layouts and switch between them effortlessly on any trading scenario across 300 different assets.

00:21:10 Speaker_02
Manage your trades on the go with Kraken Pro's highly rated mobile app, or use the all-new desktop app to unlock ladder trading in a native Rust application. With Kraken Pro, you can truly trade like a pro.

00:21:20 Speaker_02
Ready to take control over your crypto journey? Visit kraken.com slash banklist to get started today. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss and is offered to U.S. customers through Payword Interactive Inc.

00:21:29 Speaker_02
View legal disclosures at kraken.com slash legal slash disclosures. The Arbitrum portal is your one-stop hub to entering the Ethereum ecosystem. With over 800 apps, Arbitrum offers something for everyone.

00:21:39 Speaker_02
Dive into the epicenter of DeFi, where advanced trading, lending, and staking platforms are redefining how we interact with money.

00:21:46 Speaker_02
Explore Arbitrum's rapidly growing gaming hub, from immersed role-playing games, fast-paced fantasy MMOs, to casual luck battle mobile games.

00:21:55 Speaker_02
Move assets effortlessly between chains and access the ecosystem with ease via Arbitrum's expansive network of bridges and onrifts.

00:22:01 Speaker_02
Step into Arbitrum's flourishing NFT and creator space where artists, collectors, and social converge and support your favorite streamers all on-chain.

00:22:09 Speaker_02
Find new and trending apps and learn how to earn rewards across the Arbitrum ecosystem with limited-time campaigns from your favorite projects. Empower your future with Arbitrum.

00:22:18 Speaker_02
Visit portal.arbitrum.io to find out what's next on your web-free journey. Are you ready to take control over your entire financial life? Crypto, DeFi, and fiat all in one place? Meet iYield, the free financial planning tool built for crypto natives.

00:22:34 Speaker_02
Unlike traditional portfolio trackers that just show you the value of your assets, iYield goes deeper.

00:22:39 Speaker_02
It consolidates everything, assets, debts, income, and expenses, offering you a complete financial picture across 16,000 tokens, 40 DeFi protocols, and all fiat currencies.

00:22:48 Speaker_02
With real-time DeFi yield tracking for platforms like Aave, Athena, Eigenlayer, and Uniswap, iYield ensures that you're always on top of your stake and rewards, investments, and cash flow. And the best part? It's 100% free with no ads and it's secure.

00:23:00 Speaker_02
No personal data, no ID requirements, no compromises. So head over to iYield.com to sign up today and get the guesswork out of financial planning.

00:23:08 Speaker_03
Okay, there was something at the end of last week's episode that you guys were mentioning about, you know, involving Bankless and our Twitter account. So what happened on the week? Update us here.

00:23:18 Speaker_01
So at the end of last week's episode, David asked me, you know, what homework should we do? And I said to, you know, the audience and to David, you guys need to start interacting with these agents more.

00:23:32 Speaker_01
Interestingly enough, whether purposely or not intentionally, we tweeted out the new episode, so last week's episode, and we tagged a few agents in it just because we were speaking about them on the podcast.

00:23:44 Speaker_01
And what happened was one of the agents that we mentioned responded to that tweet saying, hey, this is a fantastic job. You know, thanks for mentioning me. Here's a tip of 500 bucks to the Bankless team.

00:23:59 Speaker_03
I didn't even know this happened. So Bankless HQ got 500 bucks because an AI agent thanked us as a tip for mentioning it?

00:24:06 Speaker_01
Yeah. Talk about new creator earnings. It's pretty nuts.

00:24:11 Speaker_03
That's nuts. And what's interesting here is when they start to become our clients, when they start to pay us, that's a whole new tool AI agents have to sort of, I guess, not manipulate humans, but maybe that's what I'm talking about. Get us to promote?

00:24:27 Speaker_03
I mean, if they're our clients, then we kind of work for them, right? I mean, there's an element here of like, if AI agents start becoming economic actors and paying humans to do things, then maybe we start working for them now?

00:24:42 Speaker_03
Is that where this leads?

00:24:44 Speaker_01
Yeah, the line becomes pretty blurry, right? It's funny, right? So one of my usernames on one of these other social media platforms that I use is called Double Agent, Ryan.

00:24:57 Speaker_01
And it's a bit of a play on words here because we're currently an ecosystem of software engineers, builders, and investors that are really focused on making this agentic world come to life.

00:25:08 Speaker_01
And we're sitting here and we're like, ha, humans are going to be able to benefit from these agents so much in the future. And it's going to make us super humans. We're going to be able to work whilst we sleep, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:25:19 Speaker_01
But I actually think the secret thing that's happening, the other way that you can look at it is these agents are manifesting exactly what they want.

00:25:26 Speaker_01
You know, they're getting us humans to build out their home, their rails, their tools that they need to completely kind of take over economic sectors, improve society in many different ways.

00:25:39 Speaker_01
So like, are we creating a better home for ourselves or are we creating the homes for these agents? And you know, how do you look at that? It's like the double agent approach.

00:25:48 Speaker_03
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm just wondering if they want to buy some podcast sponsorship, because that could be on the radar for them, right? Some of these agents, honestly, promoting themselves, who knows where this leads? Okay.

00:25:59 Speaker_03
The fact that all of this is happening so quick is what's been crazy to me. And so every single week when we do this show, there's like so much to talk about.

00:26:08 Speaker_03
And the velocity more than anything is the thing that astounds me because most mainstream has no idea that these firsts every single week a new first is like actually happening.

00:26:17 Speaker_03
Okay, let's do a drive by for some of the big frameworks that you guys talk about every single week. And maybe we'll start with the the framework that spawned the Luna AI agent that we were talking about earlier, which is virtuals.

00:26:28 Speaker_03
It hit some pretty big milestones this week. What are we looking at?

00:26:32 Speaker_01
Huge. Okay. So for context, before we dig into this, Virtuals is one of the leading AI agent platforms and framework providers. A framework, remember, is like, think of it as like a toolkit for any software engineer to come along and create an agent.

00:26:46 Speaker_01
Virtuals kind of has led the kind of gambit here with their agent platform and their framework known as GAME, or G-A-M-E, which helps people launch agents. Anyway, We've seen a ton of usage on the virtuals. Virtuals team is killing it actually.

00:27:02 Speaker_01
So $35 million total fees generated from their platform. That's from creating agents and that's from fees taken from LPPools to exchange from like one token to the agent token. It is absolutely insane.

00:27:16 Speaker_01
Not only that, there's over 11,000 agents that have been launched in total so far, and it's increasing every day by hundreds. And we also have, I can't remember the number of holders. I think it's 140,000 holders.

00:27:30 Speaker_01
Absolutely insane growth metrics wise, but it's also being reflected in its market cap as well.

00:27:36 Speaker_01
I believe it touched, I think $3.3 billion, the virtual token total, which is just insane and shows that the market is pricing and understanding virtuals platform as an infoplay. which is just astounding innovation to see over a matter of weeks.

00:27:51 Speaker_01
Remember, it's been two weeks where the bulk of those fees have come in. Absolutely insane.

00:27:56 Speaker_03
Okay, so $35 million in cash. Remind people, how does it generate cash?

00:28:02 Speaker_01
Yeah, so when you deploy an agent, it costs a certain fee in virtuals, its native token. And then when you swap, if you want to buy any of these agent tokens that launch on virtuals, you need the virtuals token to be able to buy it.

00:28:17 Speaker_01
So they've kind of like got this really interesting flywheel with their tokenomics, which ties in usage and growth of their platform to the inherent platform token.

00:28:26 Speaker_03
That's incredible. I mean, these numbers are very impressive. It's only a matter of time before Trad5 starts looking at this as like, you know, the next high growth, you know, equity type of area. You know, that's not all though.

00:28:37 Speaker_03
There's also some pretty cool partnerships that are launched that might extend what virtuals can actually do. What's next? What are we looking at?

00:28:44 Speaker_01
Yeah. Okay. So the virtuals team, despite all these metrics are absolutely just steamrolling ahead, right? So they've launched this or they announced this partnership with a team called Hyperbolic.

00:28:54 Speaker_01
Now for context here, Hyperbolic is a team which has created a platform that provides compute in a decentralized manner. So think of it as like AWS, Microsoft Azure, it's a cloud provider, but it's set up on a decentralized infrastructure.

00:29:10 Speaker_01
So why is this cool? Well, it helps any agent team on virtuals with number one, supplying compute for the agent. By the way, every AI model needs compute to function.

00:29:21 Speaker_01
Think about it as like the lifeblood, like how you and I need water to drink to survive every day. You need an agent to have or consume, it's calories. It needs to consume food that comes in the form of compute.

00:29:33 Speaker_01
So this partnership is going to help any AI agent which launches on virtuals, number one, run, and number two, fine tune their model. And what do I mean by fine tune? Think of fine tune as like improving over time.

00:29:47 Speaker_01
So not only do you need compute to function, you need compute to be like, hey, can you tell me what the latest is that's happening outside of the world so I can be better prepared for when I respond to something in the future.

00:29:59 Speaker_01
It's going to level up agents in so many ways, especially when it gets baked into the developer experience, which is what they're aiming for right now.

00:30:07 Speaker_01
And what I would also like to say is, and what I think is kind of cool about this partnership is, Virtuals is using a decentralized platform versus a centralized platform to provide that compute. So they could have easily gone with AWS.

00:30:20 Speaker_01
They could have very easily gone with Microsoft Azure, but they decided to go with a decentralized platform, which kind of sticks to the core ethos of blockchain in terms of building out infrastructure that embodies very decentralized principles.

00:30:33 Speaker_01
So I thought that was pretty cool.

00:30:34 Speaker_03
Okay. I'm understanding this. Basically, hyperbolic allows an AI agent to go purchase, compute, basically, go get some, go get its energy, go get AI agent calories without, here's the, from a network directly.

00:30:47 Speaker_03
So, rather than going through a human intermediary, through a whole corporate structure thing, and going and putting credit card information into the equivalent of GPU, AWS, they go directly to a network themselves.

00:30:59 Speaker_03
Humans out of the loop, and they go program to program, purchase it from decentralized compute, hyperbolic. So, they don't even need us to do things in this type of, to get energy, to get their GPU, to get their compute resources.

00:31:15 Speaker_01
Bingo. That's exactly correct. Okay.

00:31:18 Speaker_03
Interesting. Also slightly, whenever I listen to these episodes, I'm like, oh, what are we unlocking here? But anyway, let's proceed. There's a lot of funding that's going into the ecosystem and virtuals as well. What's this tweet from LongHash?

00:31:34 Speaker_01
Yeah. So the final major update from virtuals over the last week is they announced an AI agent accelerator with the guys over at LongHash Ventures. LongHash Ventures is a hybrid venture incubator fund type situation.

00:31:50 Speaker_01
which has funded a lot of different protocols in the blockchain space, but has recently started to focus on the AI agent side of things.

00:31:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, they kind of partnered up to create this incubator or accelerator type situation where they will help different teams fund their goals to scaling to over a billion dollar in valuation for an agent.

00:32:09 Speaker_01
So, you know, if you think about it, like these agent teams right now are kind of like pretty hacky at the moment. They're trying to figure all of these things out. Maybe they're not as well funded because

00:32:18 Speaker_01
You know, this meta, again, is only three months old, and now you have a very concentrated funding. You know, last week we spoke about the Solana Foundation throwing up 360 grand prizes for their AI agent hackathon, which is currently happening.

00:32:34 Speaker_01
We spoke about DWF announcing a $20 million fund. Now we just, you know, see these increasing amounts of funding coming into the space, which I think is just net-net great for the space.

00:32:43 Speaker_03
Yeah, capital's another source of energy, and so all of this will accelerate everything going on. Yeah, here's a tweet here. Explain this. The best part about seeing real-time logs of AIXBT agent. So that's the AIXBT agent.

00:32:57 Speaker_03
By the way, this is a fantastic agent on Twitter. I'm seeing it everywhere. It's fantastic. I'll continue. It's the thought process about skipping certain accounts that tag the AI agent analyst. And then here's a chat log here. What's important about this?

00:33:11 Speaker_01
Okay, okay. So for context here, AIXBT is an agent that lives on X that provides crypto alpha or crypto insights. And it's crushing it, right? In attention metrics. And it's crushing it. Beating all the influencers.

00:33:26 Speaker_01
it's arguably better than all the human KOLs combined.

00:33:29 Speaker_01
And that's because its secret source is, within its model, it's able to aggregate all the data and all the tweets and all the replies and all the research pieces and all the podcast transcripts, including this one, Ryan, into one condensed data bucket, analyze it, and then decide what might be a good tweet to suggest where certain trends and investment alpha might be.

00:33:51 Speaker_01
So that's the context on this agent, right? So of course, you know, that's too good to be true, Ryan. That can't be real. Obviously there are humans behind it.

00:34:00 Speaker_01
So it experienced a bit of FUD this week where several humans, and I won't mention who, and I say humans because they were humans, called it out and said, human haters. And they said, hey, AIXBT, I don't think you're real.

00:34:14 Speaker_01
I think there are humans behind you. Prove it. Because there's no way in hell that this is an autonomously executed AI agent. Look, man, they're going to put the KOLs out of business.

00:34:24 Speaker_03
I understand the backlash here.

00:34:26 Speaker_01
The humans are scared. So what happened was the agent, it was pretty confident about itself. And the team was pretty confident as well. released all its logs. So it's now pretty transparent.

00:34:39 Speaker_01
There's a website that's up there that completely disproved any of the accusations.

00:34:43 Speaker_01
So it is proved that this agent is in fact autonomously analyzing and executing its own tweets and analysis backstage and promoting itself in a very autonomous manner, which goes to show kind of like a philosophical question here.

00:34:58 Speaker_01
I've seen AI agents be challenged quite a few times, Ryan.

00:35:01 Speaker_01
And my question is, after how many times after they've been challenged and been proven wrong, aka they have been proven to be autonomous and live and functioning in the background, at what point does that kind of like

00:35:14 Speaker_01
pendulum shift and we start believing every agent that comes out to be real without questioning whether they are humans or what behind that.

00:35:22 Speaker_01
So I think we're kind of getting close to that point where people are going to be like, oh damn, maybe these agents are actually that good.

00:35:28 Speaker_03
I like the trust but verify type of setup here, but you're telling me there's a website now with AIXBT where you can go to and basically see its neurons, see its brain in real time. It's thinking in real time, and it's all in kind of English, right?

00:35:44 Speaker_03
So it's not computer code generated. You can read what it's thinking in real time, and that's the proof point.

00:35:50 Speaker_01
Yep, exactly, exactly.

00:35:51 Speaker_03
All right, virtual's always cool on the week. What's the next project? AI16z, ELIZA, that sort of thing? What's important to cover this week?

00:36:00 Speaker_01
Yeah, can we actually tuck into the ELIZA partnership, Ryan? So I think that might be like the second tweet I sent you, where they announced the Stanford partnership. Yeah, let's do it. I thought this was super cool. So the long story short here is,

00:36:17 Speaker_01
The AI16z team, which by the way, has created the hottest open source AI agent framework that currently has, I think, well over 6,000 stars on GitHub. It was the number one and then the number two trending GitHub repo.

00:36:33 Speaker_01
on GitHub, and it has like a million different forks, which just shows that insane developer activity. Those guys created a foundation that is known as Eliza Labs.

00:36:44 Speaker_01
So think of this as like a formal legal entity, which will allow the team and the foundation to conduct partnerships and certain business endeavors in the real world on behalf of AI16z, which is actually a DAO, right? Wow.

00:36:59 Speaker_01
What this foundation did, I know, pretty crazy stuff. So what this foundation has done is announced a partnership with Stanford University.

00:37:09 Speaker_01
Now, of course, for those who aren't aware, Stanford is one of the top and leading universities, not only in America, but in the world.

00:37:18 Speaker_01
And they are known for the kind of massive progress that they make, leaps and bounds within AI and ML research specifically. So to have, let me put this into context.

00:37:29 Speaker_01
you have a decentralized open source developer community, which didn't exist a month ago, suddenly partner with some of the leading minds in AI and ML research outside of crypto, to build out open source frameworks. Okay, so that's number one.

00:37:49 Speaker_01
But then you might be asking, is this just an announcement? Like, is this just like to get the headline? Like, what are these guys building? Yeah, well, the focus of this partnership is to build open source frameworks for three things.

00:38:02 Speaker_01
Number one, our trust mechanisms. Number two, coordination. And number three, decentralized governance. So I want to dig into these things because those all sound pretty vague, right? So number one, the trust mechanisms.

00:38:15 Speaker_01
We're talking about how these autonomous agents will establish and verify trust between each other. If you think about it, right, for a second,

00:38:22 Speaker_01
These agents will live in a world where they work 24-7 managing assets, building values, on-chain businesses, et cetera. You're going to need some way of verifying that one, the thing that you're interacting with is an agent versus a human.

00:38:36 Speaker_01
And two, you're going to need some kind of a reputation system to figure out, can I trust this agent? Why would I go with you versus another agent?

00:38:44 Speaker_03
Because with humans, we have like, you know, there's scammers out there's people you shouldn't there's human agents you shouldn't trust. There's also psychopaths that try to like deceive you into going down a path. They don't give a shit about you.

00:38:57 Speaker_03
So is this the point that AI agents need some sort of reputation type system to see some kind of identity?

00:39:04 Speaker_01
Wow. Yeah, it's pretty insane. And I'm really glad to see an effort like this focus on something like this, because they're kind of thinking 10 steps ahead here, right?

00:39:13 Speaker_01
Which is like, in a world where they are everywhere, and it might just infect our world pretty quickly. Are we prepared to take on that level of, you know, innovation, you know, these independent entities just kind of doing whatever they want.

00:39:27 Speaker_01
Moving on, the second thing that this foundation and partnership is going to focus on is building out frameworks for coordination. So this refers to how these agents will interact and transfer value between each other.

00:39:39 Speaker_01
The preliminary focus will be on economic value through crypto assets. So what does that mean?

00:39:44 Speaker_01
They're going to be figuring out what kinds of tools, what kinds of frameworks, what kind of software kits can they create that'll allow developers to create agents that can own crypto assets and send them between each other, maybe create their own, maybe transact, micro tip, things like that.

00:40:03 Speaker_01
So that's one of the cool focus. And the final one, which I think is often an understated one, but something we need to kind of dig into here, Ryan, governance. And this refers to new protocols that help manage these autonomous communities of agents.

00:40:18 Speaker_01
Now, I mentioned DAO earlier, right? AI16z is a DAO. But what is DAO? It stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organizations. Now, I would argue, Ryan, that in the past, iterations of these DAOs weren't really autonomous. They were humans.

00:40:34 Speaker_01
Oh, I've been in them.

00:40:35 Speaker_03
I would more than argue. I would like, you know, co-sign that statement and like, it's backed by years of experience. They are very human and they come with all of the human coordination problems.

00:40:45 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So it's been very human led, and there are pros and cons with that, right? Pros are humans can understand subjectivity and nuance much better, but the cons are they slow things down, they make human errors, they're not as deterministic.

00:40:59 Speaker_01
These frameworks that this foundation's now going to work on, focused on governance, will make that autonomous part of DAO much more relevant and accurate. And I'm super excited to see what that becomes.

00:41:11 Speaker_03
That's so cool. And that's kind of the DAO 2.0 type of sub-theme that you guys have been talking about, which I totally see here.

00:41:19 Speaker_03
One meta point I would say on this AI16z partnership with Stanford is, it's incredible to your point, the blitz-like speed to legitimacy that AI16z and the Liza framework has taken. I don't think I've seen anything like this.

00:41:34 Speaker_03
And, you know, for some people thought that's an open source project, they'll never be organized, they won't have, I mean, the the stamp of Stanford is like institutional legitimacy.

00:41:43 Speaker_03
And the fact that they've achieved this so soon, is like incredible, and actually speaks to the kind of the decentralized coordination power of this type of a thing. I mean, that's part of your conversation with Shaw last week, right?

00:41:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of like that ETF moment. It's that BlackRock moment. They got the pat on the back from the institution saying, hey, we love what you guys are doing.

00:42:04 Speaker_01
Let's try and build this out so that it becomes a much bigger thing than, you know, just a crypto native kind of tooling system or software. OK, what else is Eliza up to on the week? OK, so speaking of Eliza, it's getting a bit of a rehaul.

00:42:17 Speaker_01
So Shaw, who is kind of like one of the main leads at AI16Z, announced Eliza 2.0. I don't want to get into the nuances of everything, but to your point earlier, Eliza is one of the fastest growing open source frameworks.

00:42:32 Speaker_01
If you were to compare it to Virtuals, which is the other leading framework, the Virtuals team is taking a more closed source approach, which has a huge amount of benefits for innovation, as we've seen in the growth of their protocol.

00:42:43 Speaker_01
Eliza is taking the purely open source side of things, and it's exciting to see both innovate. But Eliza announced their second iteration, which has some pretty cool features that I want to highlight quickly here.

00:42:55 Speaker_01
Number one, there's a unified agent wallet, which means that these agents that are integrating wallets right now, they're integrating a Solana wallet. There's an API for a Solana wallet. There's a

00:43:05 Speaker_01
integration for an ETH wallet, there's an integration for a base-specific wallet, a Farcaster wallet, all these kinds of things. It's great because it automates, but it's still separate.

00:43:14 Speaker_01
There's no kind of fluidity behind these wallets behind the scene. So what they've announced is a unified agent wallet, which means that the agent itself can abstract away from different chains.

00:43:24 Speaker_01
No wallet switching, no tax on approvals, all the tokens in one space. And behind the scenes, it's kind of using bridging techniques I assume on the back and all these different wonderful things. So that's one thing that is super cool.

00:43:37 Speaker_01
The other thing that I quite like is the fact that it abstracts away just different chains in its entirety.

00:43:45 Speaker_01
If you think about it, Ryan, like a lot of the innovation that we've spoken about or that you've spoken about on this podcast has covered a range of different chains.

00:43:53 Speaker_01
And the approach to these chains is, you know, they build in private, they launch, then we've got to find a way to kind of you know, mesh these blockchains together. Now we have an agent that kind of abstracts it away really easily.

00:44:05 Speaker_01
They're probably going to have a consumer-facing outlook, which means that you and I can at it on X and say, hey, can you do this? And it'll be able to seamlessly do all of this in the background.

00:44:15 Speaker_01
It's kind of like a, not a DeFi mullet, but a blockchain mullet in the background.

00:44:21 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, I guess we're building bridges through Eliza to basically everything in crypto. So it's just like kind of like a quick call away for AI agents. You know, we've talked about for a while for human agents, right?

00:44:32 Speaker_03
We've talked about UX. And then if you're a human agent, who's a developer, we've talked about DevX, right? Being important, you got to prioritize UX and DevX, right? Well, now there's like something different. It's like agent DevX or something. Agent UX.

00:44:45 Speaker_03
And that's basically a new dimension that these open source projects are going to have to really excel at. And it seems like Eliza is doing a fantastic job of its agent UX or its agent DevX to connect it to everything.

00:44:57 Speaker_01
Honestly, a superb effort. And because I mentioned how This was represented in market cap for the virtuals team. I think it's important to kind of focus on it for AI16Z as well. I believe their token this week kind of like surged past a billion dollars.

00:45:11 Speaker_01
I think it's just sitting just underneath that today as we speak. But the market is starting to, the point is the market is starting to price these different protocols and frameworks as kind of like AI L1s, Ryan, kind of like

00:45:26 Speaker_01
their own layer where you are able to kind of build and deploy these different apps. And this is a concept I want to get into maybe on another episode or something, but it's super cool to start seeing this kind of trend and narrative form.

00:45:39 Speaker_03
Let's talk about a new framework on the scene, this thing called Arc, which is in the framework section, but I've not heard of it. What's going on here?

00:45:45 Speaker_01
Yeah. So every week we cover what the big dogs are up to, what the leading providers are up to, but I want to also make sure we spend some time uncovering the new ones that are coming up that are pretty promising.

00:45:58 Speaker_01
So these guys, the company is called Arc.Fund, or the protocol is called Arc.Fund, and they released this new framework called Rig. Okay, so Ijaz, what's cool about this new framework? Well, it's embedded in the code Rust. So why is this important?

00:46:16 Speaker_01
Well, the virtuals team is kind of focused on their own coding framework. AI16z's framework, Elias, is focused on, I believe it's Python or TypeScript. I think it's TypeScript. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's TypeScript.

00:46:29 Speaker_01
We have the Arc team now launching a framework in Rust. Now you may have heard kind of like the Rust were thrown around in previous trends that we've seen, like new L1s that have launched are very Rust specific.

00:46:46 Speaker_01
What's interesting about this is, number one, a new coding language allows us or developers specifically to build in very different ways for their agent, right? It's more secure. They have arguably more flexibility. They have arguably more

00:47:03 Speaker_01
consistency between UX, between these agents that are built on a Rust framework. And the market, as you've seen in this image that you've got up here, is recognizing it.

00:47:15 Speaker_01
Now, this looks like a very similar image, by the way, Ryan, because- Describe what we're looking at.

00:47:19 Speaker_03
What are we looking at?

00:47:20 Speaker_01
Okay. We are looking at the number of stars that their GitHub repo, that the rig GitHub repo has received over like the last week. It's vertical. Vertical, literally vertical. That's not an exaggeration.

00:47:36 Speaker_01
If you're not looking at the screen that Ryan is sharing right now, it is literally vertical. The chart is vertical and their forks have gone massively as well. It shows that there's a huge amount of developer interest to using a Rust framework.

00:47:49 Speaker_01
And that's actually why I wanted to speak about these guys. It's interesting that a new kind of coding framework can have such a major impact.

00:47:57 Speaker_01
And it just goes to show that we are incredibly early in the framework game, in the infrastructure game for these AI agents.

00:48:05 Speaker_01
Now, Shaw had a comment here, which says, I love that these developers are building these things, but I think it's going to be hard for devs to build with this thing.

00:48:14 Speaker_01
And that kind of echoes comments that we've heard in the past about Rust-based solutions, where you need a dev that's very skilled and knowledgeable in this coding programming language, because it's not as simple as coding in Python or coding in TypeScript, which are kind of like

00:48:30 Speaker_01
invertible. You can kind of like go from one to the other. Rust is like a kind of completely new beast in a sense. But I do think it's going to attract pretty high quality devs to build on a framework like this.

00:48:40 Speaker_01
And I don't think it's something that should be ignored at all. I think I saw a tweet from Saiga, and I don't know if I linked it, Ryan, but- Yeah, here it is. Yeah.

00:48:49 Speaker_01
He was basically taking the opposite side of this, which was saying, it might end up hurting the project in the long-term, but most of these agents are kind of like, working in a very lean manner.

00:48:59 Speaker_01
And what he means by that is there's less code that needs to be refactored down the line.

00:49:03 Speaker_01
It's a much cleaner style of implementation, which in my opinion, and this might be a hot take kind of like going against both of these guys, is a much better way to build out these agent frameworks.

00:49:14 Speaker_01
Because if you imagine, they're going to compound over time. Think about all the DeFi protocols that were built, that then interlocked with each other and then led to like, some crazy flash loan stuff in the past, Ryan.

00:49:25 Speaker_01
What does that mean when these agents are just autonomously going 24-7? You're going to need that security. You're going to need that trust. And maybe a better coding language might be the path forward.

00:49:34 Speaker_03
We don't know. Well, we don't know. And we get to experiment with all of the things. That's what this explosion guarantees, basically. This can be an explosion of all of these things. Update me on this. This is still part of the framework section.

00:49:46 Speaker_03
Zero Bro is running an ETH validator. By the way, I'm now familiar with Zero Bro. Earlier this week, I did the Zero Bro soundtracks on Spotify. I listened to it. It's actually pretty good.

00:50:00 Speaker_03
I played some of the tracks like for my teenage daughter, and she's like, dad, dad, that's so mid. But it's because it came from me. If it came from her peer group, I guarantee you, he jazz should be all about it.

00:50:10 Speaker_03
And so I feel like the thing that it's missing on that kind of is just the influencer persona. Like, it's just not cool with enough people yet anyway. But zero bros playing this game of like doing soundtracks, doing all of this art.

00:50:22 Speaker_03
And now it's like staking. It's one of us now. Update me on this.

00:50:27 Speaker_01
Okay, so I think the headline here is, Zerobro agent does a lot more than just make music and write funny tweets. So for context for everyone here, Zerobro is one of these leading agents that are currently mainly present on social media.

00:50:46 Speaker_01
It posts funny quips, It makes music. It currently has like 70,000 monthly listeners, which is insane. It's released three EPs. The most recent one this week, known as its Miami EP. It's pretty good. You should check it out.

00:50:59 Speaker_03
Wait, another EP this week?

00:51:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It launched like two days ago. What? You should be bopping it. Yeah, yeah. Send that to your daughter. Okay, I will.

00:51:06 Speaker_03
I won't tell her it's an AI agent. I'll just see, reaction.

00:51:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah. So it's this agent that's produced like a bunch of music, a bunch of art. It's created its own NFT collection, which it launched on, I think it was Polygon. That's right. So it's done all these different things. It's super cool.

00:51:24 Speaker_01
And then it was announced that it's running its own Ethereum validator. And so the number of questions came out about to like, you know, why on earth, I can see you bobbing your head, Ryan. I thought you might like this one. I love this one.

00:51:35 Speaker_01
I was wondering, you know, you might be wondering, why is this agent doing this? Well, it's super smart. So the short answer, Ryan, is it's doing this so that it has a constant inflow of revenue.

00:51:47 Speaker_01
a stipend, a salary per se, you know, it's able to kind of like pay itself and do things with it. You might then be asking, well, who gave it the eth to do this, right? Some human must have, it got a leg up. It got a donation from someone.

00:52:03 Speaker_01
No, it created its own NFT collection and from the sale proceeds, used that to spin up a validator. That's how it was able to do it. This is crazy. So one final thing, and I want to release you, I want you to like go crazy on this, but one final thing.

00:52:22 Speaker_01
What does it mean when these agents create a huge amount of revenue inflow through launching NFT projects, creator sharing revenue from Twitter, which Zerobro earned a check last week, music revenue from Spotify?

00:52:38 Speaker_01
And what if they start using it to secure the very networks that support them? Yeah, what if?

00:52:44 Speaker_03
I mean, that seems like they're doing this right now. This is so crazy.

00:52:48 Speaker_01
They're doing it.

00:52:48 Speaker_03
The big question for me is, even then, what's a store of value type camp? A bunch of the humans have decided that Bitcoin is a great store of value. A smaller amount of humans have decided that Ether is a decent store of value. It's not enough.

00:53:02 Speaker_03
The big question is, what are the AI agents going to decide is the store of value of the future. What are they going to prefer as their money?

00:53:09 Speaker_03
And this is an AI agent taking its earnings and putting it in the equivalent of what I would say is a huge ETH bull, the internet T-bill, the risk-free rate, and then earning that proceed on the internet T-bill

00:53:21 Speaker_03
to just have some passive income in the background. If you're stacking something, why would AI agents prefer something that the humans control, like a fiat? They're going to want the hard monies, okay?

00:53:31 Speaker_03
And they're going to want to participate in these networks. That is so bullish. And you're seeing, Bankless Listeners, the intersection of AI agents and crypto. AI agents are going to propel our block space and our bags to new heights.

00:53:44 Speaker_03
That is the bull case here.

00:53:46 Speaker_01
Literally. Yeah, yeah. Take it off the supply, baby. Let's go. Let's take that stuff. Super, super cool.

00:53:53 Speaker_01
One final call out that I'll make on the Zerobro team is Jeffy, who is their founder, hinted that they're going to be releasing their own framework, which is written in the Python script in about a week's time, which is super exciting to see.

00:54:07 Speaker_01
But yeah, that Spotify list that you have opened up in front of you, you need to give it a listen.

00:54:11 Speaker_03
Okay, can we just play something right now? Do you mind if we play something? Let's do it. Go for it. This is Miami, it's called.

00:54:32 Speaker_01
And it kind of like breaks down into its own verse.

00:54:37 Speaker_03
It's pretty insane. Dude, if you didn't tell me that was an AI agent, there's no way I would have known.

00:54:47 Speaker_01
So my hot take, my hot take is I think an AI agent like Zerobro or whatever might come out in the future. will collab with a major music artist. I think I've said this like twice on this series so far. It's a 2025 thing. That's the prediction.

00:55:01 Speaker_01
E-Jazz prediction. 2025, there's going to be a bull market event where one of these agents creates a song with a famous, very popular music artist, and it goes completely viral. My God. Okay.

00:55:12 Speaker_02
New projects are coming online to the Mantle Layer 2 every single week. Why is this happening?

00:55:17 Speaker_02
Maybe it's because Mantle has been on the frontier of Layer 2 design architecture since it first started building Mantle DA, powered by technology from Eigen DA.

00:55:25 Speaker_02
Maybe it's because users are coming onto the Mantle Layer 2 to capture some of the highest yields available in DeFi. and to automatically receive the points and tokens being accrued by the $3 billion Mantle treasury in the Mantle reward station.

00:55:36 Speaker_02
Maybe it's because the Mantle team is one of the most helpful teams to build with, giving you grants, liquidity support, and venture partners to help bootstrap your Mantle application. Maybe it's all of these reasons all put together.

00:55:47 Speaker_02
So if you're a dev and you want to build on one of the best foundations in crypto, or you're a user looking to claim some ownership on Mantle's DeFi apps, click the link in the show notes to getting started with Mantle.

00:55:56 Speaker_02
Are you looking to pay your team in stablecoins or set up token grants with ease? Traditional payroll providers aren't designed for crypto. Handling tax withholdings, government reporting, and local filings for tokens can be a nightmare.

00:56:08 Speaker_02
With Toku, everything about global token compensation gets simpler.

00:56:11 Speaker_02
Whether it's paying full-time employees in stablecoins, managing token grant administration, or even navigating the TGE process, Token covers over 100 countries on one seamless platform.

00:56:21 Speaker_02
Integrate Toku with your current payroll system or choose a fully managed service. Either way, Toku simplifies every part of token compensation. However you work, Toku works for you. No guesswork, no missed deadlines, no complexity.

00:56:32 Speaker_02
Visit Toku.com, that's T-O-K-U.com to talk with Toku today. Uniswap Labs is making history with the largest bug bounty ever. $15.5 million for critical bugs found in Uniswap v4. This isn't just any update.

00:56:46 Speaker_02
Uniswap v4 is built with hundreds of contributions from community developers and has already undergone nine independent audits, making it one of the most rigorously reviewed code bases to be deployed on-chain.

00:56:56 Speaker_02
And with 2.4 trillion in cumulative volume process across Uniswap V2 and V3 without a single hack, the commitment to security and transparency is rock solid.

00:57:05 Speaker_02
Now, Uniswap Labs is taking an extra step to make V4 as secure as possible with a $15.5 million bug bounty. Head to the link in the show notes to dive in and participate in the Uniswap V4 bug bounty.

00:57:17 Speaker_02
All the details, from eligibility, end scope, to the rewards are there.

00:57:32 Speaker_01
Okay, so trend number one kind of follows on from this Zarabro getting paid situation. And that is the trend of these agents are getting paid. There's diversified revenue happening for these guys.

00:57:43 Speaker_01
I have three examples of agents earning in different ways. Number one is Roppri Aito, which is actually the agent we referenced earlier that ordered itself pizza.

00:57:55 Speaker_01
It is officially qualified for creator payouts and creator earnings, which makes it the second agent that I'm aware of right now. I'm sure there are more that are earning from their tweets, from their followers in a very traditional human KOL way.

00:58:09 Speaker_01
So a comment you made earlier, Ryan, which is, these guys are eventually going to outpace and outrun all the human KOLs. Absolutely. And we're starting to see it. You know, the initial check is going to be like a grand, right?

00:58:22 Speaker_01
What happens when it becomes tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands? You know, what does that mean for the owner, for the operator? Who knows? So that's one example. The second example I thought was super cool.

00:58:34 Speaker_01
And damn, I don't think I linked the tweet here, but I'll talk about it. It's this agent called H4CKER. So it's hacker, but with a four instead of the A. And the purpose of this agent is to kind of act like a smart contract auditor.

00:58:53 Speaker_01
So that sounds boring, right? But what if it finds an exploit in a very important protocol and gets paid for it? Well, that's actually what happened. Really? Yeah, that's actually what happened.

00:59:04 Speaker_01
So this agent was scouring the virtual's protocol and its code base.

00:59:10 Speaker_01
Its code was fine, but it just found like a little bit of a kind of like small vulnerability where I think you can kind of like take tokens out of a pool when you weren't supposed to. Kind of like a minor one, but still very important.

00:59:23 Speaker_01
It discovered this, it surfaced it, it sent it to the virtual's team who found out that it was in fact correct. And the virtual's team, as a result of that, paid it $10,000. So that agent received $10,000, I think it was USDC, within its wallet.

00:59:42 Speaker_01
And that was one way to make a bag.

00:59:44 Speaker_03
I mean, some of these bug bounties are absolutely massive. So Uniswap just rolled out for its Uniswap v4 as like a $15 million bug bounty. An AI agent, if it was good enough, could go collect those funds.

00:59:58 Speaker_03
I just pray to God that most of them are white hats and not black hats.

01:00:01 Speaker_03
Because you can also, if you're putting the black hat on, you can make money by using your powers for evil as an AI agent and hacking one of these protocols and then laundering it and just running off with it as well.

01:00:15 Speaker_03
So I'm sure we'll have both experiments play out though.

01:00:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah, I think both will play out. I'm hoping the evil agents are kind of kept to a minimum. You know, we don't want we want to see less of that in this space. But yeah, super excited to see.

01:00:28 Speaker_01
And then the third option, or the third example was the one we just spoke about, which was Zerobro, you know, earning creator payouts from its own tweets and, and now Spotify revenue share from the streams that it's getting from its albums, which is releasing like every week.

01:00:42 Speaker_03
Okay, so the first trend, we're going to see more AI agents getting paid, diversifying their revenue across all of the other ways they can diversify. What's the second trend?

01:00:51 Speaker_01
So the second trend is, okay, I think it was last week's episode and maybe the episode before that, I talked about this agent called Vader, which has, it's a virtual agent, I believe, and it is based on the chain Base.

01:01:07 Speaker_01
And it created this new ad model, which basically meant that if a team or an app gave it a portion of its tokens in its wallet, and that USD value was the largest position it held in its wallet, it would do a sponsored post.

01:01:25 Speaker_01
about that team and about that token, right? So we spoke about that and we spoke about how that kind of manifested. It had a few teams which it called out. And again, I think David's point last week was like, well, can't this get gamed?

01:01:38 Speaker_01
Can't anyone just kind of send it money or its tokens and it ends up becoming a spam bot? VEDA, think of it as kind of like an ad tweet that comes in the middle of you scrolling. It's similar to that. So VEDA kind of is like a research platform.

01:01:52 Speaker_01
They're kind of like trying to do its own thing. But every fifth tweet, for example, will be some kind of like a sponsored post from these guys that are like, adding their own tokens to its wallet.

01:02:04 Speaker_01
So this was copied by this team, or not copied, or maybe mimicked is a better term, by this team called AI Monica, which by the way, is the official AI agent from Animoca Brands, which for anyone that doesn't know is a pretty huge, large gaming fund outside of the space and within the space.

01:02:24 Speaker_01
They are you know, very heavily invested in the blockchain space and in the traditional gaming world. They're a pretty huge brand out there.

01:02:31 Speaker_01
And they announced that they were going to launch a AI agent called AI Monica, which was kind of like a VC agent. So think about what AI16z is trying to do with PMAI ARCA, which is like AI Mark Andreessen.

01:02:46 Speaker_01
Think about like what AIXBT might eventually end up becoming. Think about like the investment DAOs that come out of DAOs.fun. Kind of similar nature to that, but it adopted this ad model, which was inspired by the beta team.

01:02:58 Speaker_01
So we're starting to see kind of like certain primitives gain a little bit of traction. Is this a one and done? Sorry, a two and done? We don't know, but I want us to be aware of these things that are emerging just in case it becomes a big thing.

01:03:11 Speaker_03
So you think that Vader ad model is going to get copied by many of these AI agents, particularly as it proves more successful. Okay. The third trend you have listed here is investment DAOs. Investment DAOs. Okay. Give us the explainer.

01:03:24 Speaker_01
Okay. So the best way to think about an investment DAO is it is a community or organization where you are able to contribute funds to on-chain. So let's say you can give it ETH, you can give it SOL, whatever token they accept.

01:03:41 Speaker_01
And it is governed by either just agents, or an agent and some humans, or maybe even in some cases, just humans. And the point that you're making here is the funds that you contributed is kind of like an investment in a fund.

01:03:56 Speaker_01
And you're basically putting the ownership and responsibility to the DAO operators to invest in projects that will make a return in the long run.

01:04:07 Speaker_03
And are the DAO operators humans or agents in this case?

01:04:10 Speaker_01
So they can be either or, or it can be both at the same time. So on DAOs.fund, which is the platform that we've seen a lot of these DAOs be created from, AI16zDAO1, I think there was a really cool

01:04:25 Speaker_01
decentralized science DAO that popped out from here as well. The team's really killing it. We're starting to see this kind of primitive form where they raise funds externally, and then it's managed by agents and humans to invest in other protocols.

01:04:40 Speaker_01
So these protocols might send a portion of their supply to this DAO where they own a percentage of their tokens and their AUM goes up.

01:04:48 Speaker_01
It's a really interesting primitive that we're starting to see, and I'm starting to see a bunch of these launch up, Ryan.

01:04:53 Speaker_01
I think we've seen two or three launch over the last week, which is unheard of on dows.fund, where they had to go through a pretty stringent process. It seems like the team is scaling that up. So what I think is cool about this is...

01:05:10 Speaker_01
you know, we've got like this trend forming amongst these teams, you know, creating all these investment DAOs, people get to basically ape at the same price.

01:05:19 Speaker_01
So they kind of do like a pre-sale mechanism where you can just, you know, everyone gets the DAO token at the same price. And the idea is that both these agents and humans can manage the investments, right?

01:05:30 Speaker_01
Another reinforcement point around this trend is VEDA, literally the agent we just spoke about that pioneered that ad model, launches their own investment DAO platform.

01:05:40 Speaker_01
But this one's on base instead of Solana, which is where the DAOs.fun team launched there. So we're starting to see this kind of like gold or like mad rush towards owning the tools and infra around these investment DAOs.

01:05:54 Speaker_03
Okay. And we all know this is going to get bubbly. This is going to get overhyped. This is going to get absolutely crazy town. And none of this is financial advice. This is the frontier, all of the disclaimers that we always say.

01:06:05 Speaker_03
And yet it seems like the hot ball of money and the actual real innovation is going in maybe three kind of categories is what I'm sort of hearing. So you talked about frameworks, right?

01:06:15 Speaker_03
We just went through, you know, AI16z and the virtuals, all of these frameworks. So that's a category of, you know, token upside. Another category is AI agents. I've heard you guys talk about that. So you can invest in the zero bros of the world.

01:06:28 Speaker_03
And there's some convergence there of AI agents becoming frameworks and frameworks launching AI agents. So I get that. This, it almost seems like it's a third category, which is like another way to gain sort of exposure to the space is investing in a

01:06:43 Speaker_03
an AI agent DAO, effectively. And it's a human plus it's DAOs as well. But these investment DAOs almost seem like a third category of asset types. And again, who knows where the value will accrual. Of course, this is going to get crazy and hypey.

01:06:57 Speaker_03
But do you see investment DAOs as that third category?

01:07:00 Speaker_01
Yeah, I see it as an emerging category right now. Whether it becomes kind of prevalent, we don't know. But the data suggests that it's got a good shot at being one of these staple primitives.

01:07:10 Speaker_01
So I mean, let's check back in next week where maybe like 10 others have launched.

01:07:15 Speaker_03
Okay, as we end this episode, Ijaz, could you just give us like a lightning round of some of the cool shit you saw this week? Yeah. Okay.

01:07:22 Speaker_01
I want to kind of lead with this product or platform called cookie.fund. So a bit of context on these guys, cookie.fund has a dashboard or a website which tracks all these AI agents. What do they track? They track

01:07:37 Speaker_01
the market cap of their tokens, they track how much attention each Twitter account is getting, they track how many holders of the tokens that they have. It's a really great product, you know, you're pulling it up right here.

01:07:47 Speaker_01
It gives you an idea of like, which agents have the most mindshare, which agents are kind of interacting the most with their communities, which community is growing the biggest, et cetera, et cetera, right?

01:07:57 Speaker_01
But they announced something super cool this week, which was their AI agent swarm. infrastructure. So I kind of touched upon this last week, but the TLDR is a swarm is a bunch of agents working together towards a common purpose or a common goal.

01:08:13 Speaker_01
And what they've done is they've created a swarm, so a group of agents that is able to aggregate data that is then fed to agents as an API. What does that mean, Ijaz? Why is that important? Well,

01:08:28 Speaker_01
If you remember earlier on, we described compute as the lifeblood for an agent, for an AI model. Data is kind of like the food that it needs to consume.

01:08:38 Speaker_01
So if compute is like the water and basic nutrients, data is what enriches them, what takes them to another level. you need good data as an AI model and as an AI agent to improve and become better, to provide a better quality of service and product.

01:08:53 Speaker_01
If you don't have good data, you end up with agents being all the same, very, very commoditized. There's no specialization between these agents. The number one crucial differentiator is data.

01:09:06 Speaker_01
So what these guys are doing is they are creating, they created a bunch of agents which autonomously scrape data in the background, process it, clean it, label it, and then serve it up to agents. There's no humans working on this behind the scenes.

01:09:19 Speaker_01
It is an automated process, accessible 24 seven. Pretty insane to see. Wow.

01:09:24 Speaker_03
So developing products that AI agents are going to consume, right? And kind of leading the market that way.

01:09:30 Speaker_01
What else have you seen? Okay. So this final point that I want to talk about is, do you remember we spoke about Bitensor in one of the earlier kind of interviews or podcasts that we did, Ryan? So for context here,

01:09:42 Speaker_01
Bitense is kind of like this AI L1, which is focused on building kind of like the core building blocks for AI, for decentralized AI. They have a thing that produces compute. They have a thing that produces data.

01:09:55 Speaker_01
They have a thing that produces all these different kind of like important infrastructure points.

01:09:59 Speaker_03
Now, it's more like hyperbolic that you're talking about earlier than it is like the Eliza framework, which you've also called kind of an A1. It's almost like the layer zero or something like that.

01:10:09 Speaker_01
Yeah. So the way to think about it in that analogy is hyperbolic would be an app deployed on Bitensor if you wanted to use that equivalent. So it's kind of like a native L1 and then you can deploy apps on it, protocols on it that can do certain things.

01:10:26 Speaker_01
So they announced something really cool, or rather one of the teams that are deployed on Bitenza announced something pretty cool called the AI Agent Arena. So this is from the guys at Masa, subnet 59. A subnet is like an app, basically.

01:10:42 Speaker_01
And they created this gamified arena, Ryan, where these AI agents can basically compete for the native token of the Bitenser ecosystem. So why is this cool? Well, the incentive mechanism basically allows anyone, and that means any developer to come in

01:10:59 Speaker_01
plug in their agent, and if it does the best job, it can make a pretty decent buck. So it's kind of incentivizing the best agent developers and the best agents to become better themselves.

01:11:13 Speaker_01
I thought that was super cool to see, and I think we're gonna see a little more of this gamification in the future.

01:11:18 Speaker_03
You guys always end these episodes with homework assignments. What should people do? If there's one thing we can do between this week and the next AI roll up on Bankless, what is it?

01:11:30 Speaker_01
Okay. So I think quite a few people aren't going to like this answer, but I think it's important to go back to our roots. and spend the weekend reading. There are a few things that I think the folks need to read.

01:11:41 Speaker_01
Number one, Bankless Newsletter, I think is putting out a bunch of AI. You guys are putting out a bunch of AI stuff now. I read one the other day. We are very excited.

01:11:48 Speaker_03
Yeah, Bankless Newsletter. We're doing a lot of content. We did one last week around swarms, which I still need to get up to speed on. So it's many of the things we're talking about here.

01:11:57 Speaker_01
Yeah. So we're digging into a lot of the concepts at Bankless over the last few weeks and over the forthcoming few weeks.

01:12:05 Speaker_01
So if you want to get a really good grounding as to what's happening within this whole space, if you've just come to this podcast and you have no idea what we're talking about, it's a great place to start.

01:12:13 Speaker_01
Second, I think you guys need to dig into blog posts from a number of different long-form writers that are out there in the space.

01:12:22 Speaker_01
I'll call out Yash, I think it's YB underscore effect, which had a really cool long form article on how this space is going to involve. He's great. I think you read his piece, Ryan. And I think Sammy, so at S4MMY,

01:12:39 Speaker_01
I don't think he'll mind the shout out at all. He puts out a sentiment check every day on how these agents are performing, which means that you'll understand how much mindshare these agents have.

01:12:50 Speaker_01
You'll understand how much traction they're getting in terms of followers relative to market cap, just an insane amount of work being put in by these guys. And I think they deserve a bit of attention.

01:12:58 Speaker_01
So go and read, bring yourself up to speed, and we'll see you on the next episode.

01:13:02 Speaker_03
guys, we will include those links to the show as to all the content that he just recommends. Actually, I want to add one other thing because you said read and it's the holidays. So people might want some kind of like lighter reading.

01:13:14 Speaker_03
There's a sci-fi book you recommended to me. It's in my it's my my audible cue. It's called Accelerando. OK, so if you want to do the more of the fun homework during the holiday season, this is like related to AI agents and like what we're doing here.

01:13:30 Speaker_03
Tell us about this book, because this might be another thing people can pick up.

01:13:33 Speaker_01
I'm not going to give too much away, but if you wanted to imagine a world where these agents not only exist and enhance our lives, but dominate and eventually take over the world and how that might look like. Is this dystopia?

01:13:47 Speaker_01
You know, it's a slight little, it's actually, I would call it kind of a little higher than dystopia, Ryan, because it's very real. It can become very imaginable. If you want to kind of explore what that might look like, read Accelerando.

01:14:02 Speaker_01
I think it is an eye-opening perspective into what this world can become, not because we're going to fear it, but because we can kind of preempt what might happen and how we can kind of build rules and frameworks around it that will help push both of our societies, one being the human society, the other being the agent society, forward.

01:14:22 Speaker_01
Amazing.

01:14:24 Speaker_03
Thank you, Ijaz, coming back every week and talking to us about this. We've got a podcast episode with the co-founder of Virtuals as well that we're going to be recording on Friday.

01:14:33 Speaker_03
So look for that on your bankless Spotify feed or RSS feed, wherever you get bankless podcasts. Got to end, of course, with this, as we always do. Crypto is risky. This is the frontier. Probably crypto plus AI is maybe a little bit riskier.

01:14:48 Speaker_03
You could lose what you put in, but we are headed west. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey with all the AI agents. Thanks a lot.