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Episode: AI ROLLUP #3: Solana AI Hackathon | Truth Terminal’s Roadmap | Satan & God Automated | Delphi Digital AI Analyst
Author: Bankless
Duration: 01:14:06
Episode Shownotes
Ejaaz is back with David to break down the latest in the explosive world of AI Agents. This week, they uncover how Truth Terminal’s roadmap could revolutionize autonomous on-chain transactions, why ai16z's Eliza framework is poised to reshape multi-chain agent deployment, and how zerebro’s creative push into music and art
is expanding the reach of AI in culture. They also discuss the growing institutional attention on AI agents, from $20M funding announcements to agents acting as venture capitalists. Can AI agents truly become the catalysts for crypto's next bull market? Follow Ejaaz on Twitter: https://x.com/cryptopunk7213 ------ 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2 🦄UNISWAP | BUG BOUNTY PROGRAM https://bankless.cc/Uniswap-Bug-Bounty 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle 🐧CARTESI | LINUX-POWERED ROLLUPS https://bankless.cc/CartesiSimple 📈iYield: YOUR FINANCIAL PICTURE, SIMPLIFIED https://bankless.cc/iYield 🔒SAFE | INTRODUCING SAFENET https://bankless.cc/SAFE ------ ✨ Mint the episode on Zora ✨ https://zora.co/collect/zora:0x0c294913a7596b427add7dcbd6d7bbfc7338d53f/112?referrer=0x077Fe9e96Aa9b20Bd36F1C6290f54F8717C5674E ------ TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 2:31 Why AI Agents Are a Big Deal 4:34 Vibes This Past Week https://x.com/s4mmyeth/status/1866414390775329111 https://x.com/dwflabs/status/1866422609967235166 https://x.com/solana/status/1866536545550995466 9:18 a16z Blog Post https://x.com/a16zcrypto/status/1864343219833627113 14:26 GOAT is Returning https://x.com/pwnlord69/status/1866589407454826644 25:44 Satan & God Automated https://x.com/ropirito/status/1864373559927173257 https://x.com/god https://x.com/s8n 39:13 Eliza & Ai16z #1 trending GitHub https://x.com/dreaminglucid22/status/1865758299464843285 https://x.com/BanklessHQ/status/1866845399715287399 47:04 Virtuals New Sandbox Tool & aixbt https://x.com/0xCygaar/status/1866513570672079187 https://x.com/aixbt_agent 53:09 Zerebro https://x.com/jyu_eth/status/1864579428639986126 https://x.com/opaiumdao/status/1865484155464630470 https://x.com/opaiumdao/status/1866572986805035325 https://x.com/jyu_eth/status/1866389720844111884 https://x.com/jyu_eth/status/1866556713647870341 https://x.com/cryptopunk7213/status/1864473729855553766 https://x.com/blormmy/status/1865987541972738549 1:01:44 Swarms & vvaifu.fun https://x.com/vvaifudotfun/status/1864050584396906841 1:03:37 Clanker Fees cross $10M https://dune.com/clanker_protection_team/clanker-fees 1:05:57 $SIMMI https://x.com/Simmi_IO/status/1862510478745804856 https://x.com/SimulacrumAI/status/1866570195051090215 https://x.com/simulacrumai/status/1866641681795441070 1:08:46 Delphi Digital AI Analyst https://x.com/Shaughnessy119/status/1866212479413678588 1:11:02 Ejaaz’s Advice for This Week 1:12:22 Closing & Disclosures ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_03
Instead of just humans and agents directly interacting with each other, I actually think the end game is we just have a ton of agents interacting with each other, building new businesses, new apps, trading value through tokens with each other, and building net new products that we've never seen in the space before and that we've never seen in the world before, to be honest.
00:00:23 Speaker_02
Welcome, Bankless Nation, to the AI Roll-Up, where we cover the recent news, developments, and drama in the intersection of crypto and AI.
00:00:30 Speaker_02
Curious and creative developers are playing around with open-source AI software, making AI agents, giving them access to crypto wallets, and unleashing them into the Wild West of the internet.
00:00:40 Speaker_02
And we are doing a special series on Bankless with a special co-host, Ejaz, to help ensure that you are up to speed with one of the craziest and fastest-growing corners of the internet. Ejaz, This is our third AI Rollup.
00:00:51 Speaker_02
We also just did our first guest interview with Shaw, the creator of the ELIZA framework and AI16z. I've been having a ton of fun with you, man. I'm learning quite a lot. I think we've gotten some crazy good feedback from these episodes so far.
00:01:03 Speaker_02
How are you doing this week, my dude?
00:01:05 Speaker_03
I'm doing well. I am super excited this week. In particular, there's been a ton of innovation across some old agent friends that we've spoken about on the show before and some new ones that are coming in with some pretty flashy innovations.
00:01:17 Speaker_03
But I think like to kind of highlight all of this, the momentum that we're seeing in this space as we're about to cover is insane. It's important to remember that this has only existed for two months, within the crypto space at least.
00:01:30 Speaker_03
So to see this much innovation pop up has been absurd. And honestly, it's been pretty hard to keep a track of. So I'm excited to get into it.
00:01:37 Speaker_02
Yeah, we've got a lot of topics that we're going to cover this week. The GOAT returns. We've got some new developments out of Andy Aray. The Bitcoin of AI agents in Truth Terminal. We're going to talk about what he released this week.
00:01:48 Speaker_02
AI16Z returns to all-time highs after a couple of weeks of uncertainty. So we're going to talk about the developments out of the AI16Z space. We just had that interview with Shaw. It was fantastic.
00:01:59 Speaker_02
Zero Bro's new LP album gets 100,000 streams on Spotify in just four days. AI swarms.
00:02:05 Speaker_02
We talked about that a little bit with Andy, but we're going to unpack that a little bit this week as well, because there is some news that is going around the world. And then we're going to have a conversation about agents versus infra.
00:02:16 Speaker_02
Where to invest? Do you invest in the agent or do you invest in the infra that spawned the agent? The debate around that. Delphi Digital launches an agent, seeds it with a million dollars.
00:02:25 Speaker_02
This is just the cream of the crop of the news, but there's plenty of news that has gone on as well that we're going to get to this week and more. Ijaz, I start off every single week asking you this same question. Why is this such a big deal?
00:02:37 Speaker_02
Why are AI agents big? Why are we covering it? How is this going to transform the industry? Give me the 101. Make me bullish.
00:02:45 Speaker_03
Okay, so it's evolved from my answer to this question last week.
00:02:49 Speaker_03
Last week, if you remember, my answer was essentially it's going to connect all the infrastructure that's pretty complex within blockchain, but super awesome to the end user so that your mom, your dad or anyone who doesn't need to necessarily know that crypto is happening in the background can interact with all this amazing stuff that will happen.
00:03:07 Speaker_03
So that was my answer last week. It's evolved now to be agent economies, what I'm describing as agent economies.
00:03:15 Speaker_03
So this is, instead of just humans and agents directly interacting with each other, I actually think the end game is we just have a ton of agents interacting with each other, building new businesses, new apps, trading value through tokens with each other, and building net new products that we've never seen in the space before and that we've never seen in the world before, to be honest.
00:03:36 Speaker_03
We've never actually had an autonomous individual that can work at the speed of software interact with other autonomous individuals that can also work at the speed of software.
00:03:45 Speaker_03
So I think the rate of iteration and innovation that comes from that will be insane. So I think the end game is something that we can't even fathom or imagine right now because we're merely human, David.
00:03:56 Speaker_02
Very bullish, made me very, very bullish. Everyone understands economies. We have human agents in these economies.
00:04:03 Speaker_02
Now we are just creating AI agents and we're going to have just another economy, probably just moving faster than we can probably comprehend.
00:04:12 Speaker_03
Free range, open source, 24-7, there's no NASDAQ closing hours, grass-fed, organic, baby.
00:04:20 Speaker_02
Oh my God. Yeah. And like you said, I think the rate of change in this industry, in this corner of the internet is only increasing, which again, feels like the just natural markings of a crypto bull market.
00:04:31 Speaker_02
So with these episodes, we're trying to get ahead of it. How would you summarize, if you just had to summarize the vibe of the last seven days, since we did the AI rollup number two, this is AI rollup number three.
00:04:41 Speaker_02
How would you summarize just like the unique markings of the last seven days?
00:04:46 Speaker_03
People are dialed. Dialed will be the word that I would use. They're dialed in. People are constantly shipping new innovations, new launches, new iterations of their agents. It's just insane to see the speed at which this is doing.
00:05:00 Speaker_03
I mean, take a look at the list that is shown on Sammy's tweet over here. So Sammy, shout out to Sammy, does this every single day.
00:05:08 Speaker_03
He gives kind of a breakdown of kind of sentiment check for different types of agents that have launched, new ones and old ones, and also relates that to their market cap. So what he's trying to get at is, does sentiment affect market cap in any way?
00:05:23 Speaker_03
And what we see from like a bunch of these kind of main agents that we've spoken about before, AIXPT, God and the Satan parody accounts,
00:05:31 Speaker_03
we see inversely correlated trends here where the sentiment check might go up, but the market cap might go down slightly. And so it's a really interesting insight or just gut check in general of the space of how we're doing here.
00:05:47 Speaker_03
That being said, we also see some of our more familiar apps like Zeribro and Goat kind of move more with their sentiment analysis.
00:05:55 Speaker_03
So if there's greater engagement in their accounts, greater increase in followers, you see that being correlated with a rise in their market cap. So pretty exciting to see all these, David.
00:06:06 Speaker_02
Yeah, I think the sentiment this last week, it has been chaotic, but trending bullish. And I think over the last week, the last seven days, has been both an increase in sentiment, positive increase in sentiment, and a positive increase in market cap.
00:06:21 Speaker_02
And probably related to why things like AI16Z are at all-time highs at the moment.
00:06:26 Speaker_03
Yeah, well, remember, like, a lot of this meta was started from a very retail-driven mania, right?
00:06:33 Speaker_03
People came across the Truth Terminal Goat account, they started interacting with its tweets, then it realized that it was an AI, Marc Andreessen got involved, and, you know, people started throwing money at this thing in a very speculative manner.
00:06:44 Speaker_03
We didn't really know where this was going. What we've noticed this week is that there's a trend of external, call it more institutional-friendly capital coming into this space, right?
00:06:56 Speaker_03
We have DWF Labs, which announced their $20 million fund dedicated to supporting this entire AI agent space specifically.
00:07:04 Speaker_03
So presumably, they're going to invest this fund into an array of infra-specific products that would help these agents thrive, communicate, and interact with each other to build new apps together or work autonomously.
00:07:18 Speaker_03
The infra layer is a huge, huge pot to figure out. And then you have maybe a focus more on the consumer side of things.
00:07:26 Speaker_03
So it's really cool to see more players enter the game here and launch more formal funds that adds kind of validity to the vision that this meta is holding, which is this will be the future use case for crypto and a billion other users to interact with this whole AI meta.
00:07:45 Speaker_03
So it's pretty cool to see. On the other side, we also have Solana Foundation announcing a hack hackathon, which is just focused on building AI agents. Two really cool things I want to point out here.
00:07:57 Speaker_03
Number one is there's a huge cash prize for winners of this hackathon.
00:08:03 Speaker_03
So if you build something of meaningful value that is validated by judges, you have some pretty large cash prizes, which can then bootstrap your team to then build something out from that, right?
00:08:12 Speaker_03
So it's really cool to see this kind of like support, both from a monetary and tech perspective, at these different hackathons. I don't think we've seen one with such a huge cash prize before, so that's pretty awesome to see.
00:08:24 Speaker_03
The second thing that I want to point out here, which is definitely more novel, is one of the judges, at least one of the judges for this hackathon, is an AI agent. I believe it is...
00:08:34 Speaker_03
I believe it is the bully agent, which is gonna be kind of validating or criticizing whether any of these products are of value or not. So that's a pretty cool and novel use case. I'm pretty sure it's a first time use case to see.
00:08:50 Speaker_02
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
00:08:52 Speaker_02
I know the idea out there that AI agents can start to become like Dow governors is definitely an idea, but I think it's signal when we start to see people putting real capital on the line and to have that truly actually be governed by an AI agent.
00:09:06 Speaker_02
And like, you know, these things are still kind of human turks. They're going to get things wrong, but it's just the first step of, you know, getting things right, which is giving them real capital and making their decisions really matter.
00:09:19 Speaker_02
I also want to get into the world of not AI16Z, but A16Z, the original one, Trad A16Z, because they put out this tweet and blog post article saying a few things that we are excited about in crypto for 2025.
00:09:33 Speaker_02
And it's a list of maybe 18, almost 20 different bullet point items. And the first three are all AI. I'll read them. An AI needs a wallet of one's own to actually get agentic. Enter decentralized autonomous chatbots.
00:09:50 Speaker_02
And then third, as more people use AI, we'll need a unique proof of personhood. So not AI16Z, A16Z is starting to plant its flag in the crypto space. What did you think about when you saw this tweet?
00:10:04 Speaker_03
Well, I instantly thought that A16Z is probably holding a similar vision to what we've spoken about on this podcast many times of a huge agentic future where these agents are just running the show, essentially.
00:10:18 Speaker_03
So those first three points right at the top, is to build that foundational layer. You need agents to be able to hold their own wallet. You need to be able to act independently and autonomously.
00:10:28 Speaker_03
And then you need to eventually be able to prove that an agent is an agent and a human is a human. So I think having that at the top of their list means that they're thinking in a very similar manner, right?
00:10:39 Speaker_03
And you've got this page pulled up here, David, where it mentions TEE or Trusted Execution Environments. That's basically the fundamental
00:10:49 Speaker_03
let's call it software tool at the moment, that is being heralded as the way to make these- Hardware too, that's hardware. Sorry, hardware tools. Thank you. That is being heralded to make these agents autonomous.
00:11:00 Speaker_03
They'll be able to spin up their own private keys. They'll be able to launch their own tokens. They'll be able to transact in a very private manner, such that you know that it was the agent with no human interaction.
00:11:12 Speaker_03
So it's cool to see a huge focus on this.
00:11:15 Speaker_02
And this bit out of AI, A16Z, A16Z also came from Dan Binet, who I just want to draw attention to. Chad, cryptographer, giga-brain, the fact that his attention is pointing here. Father of the space. Yeah, big father of the space, yeah.
00:11:30 Speaker_02
And maybe one theme of the week with DWF putting in $20 million, Solana doing their hackathon, A16Z naming categories that they're interested in.
00:11:40 Speaker_02
It's starting to become the big institutions, the big funds out there have been eyeing this space, but are now starting to make actual moves in this space.
00:11:48 Speaker_02
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00:13:00 Speaker_02
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00:13:11 Speaker_02
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00:13:21 Speaker_02
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00:13:30 Speaker_02
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00:13:42 Speaker_02
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00:13:54 Speaker_02
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00:14:21 Speaker_02
Join the waitlist and follow SAFE on X and check out the SafeNet docs. There is a link in the show notes. So broadly, I think that was what's new this week is the capital attention. Legitimacy of the space is growing and attracting larger players.
00:14:33 Speaker_02
But EJAS, I think it's time to actually get into kind of the raw events, the raw releases. And whenever we're going to talk about GOAT, we have to lead with GOAT because GOAT is the Bitcoin of AI.
00:14:43 Speaker_02
Talk to me about what came out of the Truth Terminal, Andy Ayrai, and the GOAT world this week.
00:14:49 Speaker_03
Okay, it warms my heart. It brings me a lot of pride to be able to kick it off with this. So for context for listeners here, Goat or Truth Terminal, led by Andy Ayrai, was kind of the founder of this entire meta. The AI agents themselves.
00:15:06 Speaker_03
It's exactly why we're here. We had this kind of semi-anxious, but very edgy AI agent kind of spurt a lot of its thoughts and mania onto the Twitter timeline.
00:15:18 Speaker_03
And it ended up attracting a huge audience of fans, which has now pushed it over 200,000 followers and rising pretty rapidly. So it's kind of like the godfather or the goat father, if you kind of excuse the pun. So why are we talking about it today?
00:15:33 Speaker_03
Well, Andy actually announced some improvements and a roadmap coming up for this particular agent. And some of these things are super exciting, and I kind of want to dig into it.
00:15:44 Speaker_03
So kind of the headline update here is Andy is building an infinite backrooms 2.0 called Laurier. So for context here, the infinite backrooms is where all of this started. Andy put two instances of an AI model
00:16:02 Speaker_03
in a chat room with each other, and they started speaking to each other. And from that birth, the GOAT, GOAT-C of gospel, which ended up becoming this religion that was propagated and ended up becoming the GOAT token.
00:16:14 Speaker_03
So what he's done here is he's announced an open source souped up version of the infinite backrooms, which will now allow multiple agents to interact with each other.
00:16:25 Speaker_03
Not only that, they'll be able to stream any kind of data that comes out of these multiple agent interactions to those agents themselves so that they can learn
00:16:35 Speaker_03
and self-improve and self-iterate, which basically means, and if anyone's looked into kind of fine tuning or retrieval augmented generation or RAG as it's shortened to over time, it can massively give your agent or any kind of AI model an edge.
00:16:52 Speaker_03
because it's learning in real time and therefore it can have much more nuanced and contextual responses to the output or the user. So this has been a huge update.
00:17:01 Speaker_03
The best way to think about this, if we were to kind of dumb it down to the left curve, David, is Laurier is basically the Eliza competitor. So Eliza is AI16z's tooling framework. Zeribro is launching Zerapai.
00:17:17 Speaker_03
Now we have the gospel of Goethe or Goat Truth Terminal, Andy Iray launching Lauria.
00:17:23 Speaker_02
I'm getting the magnitude of this, but I really want to trace over this again because of how big I think it is. The Truth Terminal really captured people's attention because of how personable and relatable and agentic it seemed.
00:17:37 Speaker_02
And from my understanding, it's because of the backroom structure that Andy built for it. This unique mechanism of producing a sandbox for Truth Terminal to kind of feel an identity, have a mission, have a place to grow and develop and learn.
00:17:54 Speaker_02
Whereas other AI agents like AIXBT, which has captured insane crypto Twitter mindshare because of its data and analysis, doesn't have that same level of personality and mission-drivenness and
00:18:08 Speaker_02
I think Infinite Backrooms is like a tool in the tool belt, in the open source AI agent tool belt, that I think is very critical for giving motivation and character and personality and direction to things like Truth Terminal.
00:18:22 Speaker_02
That's kind of the big takeaway that I got. Maybe you could expand on that or check that.
00:18:26 Speaker_03
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, in the example that you used, and by the way, AIXBT is a wonderful agent, and I think it's bringing huge value to the space, but AIXBT's secret sauce is it has like this amazing data aggregator, right?
00:18:39 Speaker_03
So it's able to kind of like troll across all the Twitter profiles and tweets and get a sense check on what crypto Twitter is thinking, and then kind of tweet pretty mimetically according to that, right?
00:18:51 Speaker_03
Truth Terminal and Andy Iray's project or experiment called the Infinite Backrooms is unique in the sense that you have two agents basically speaking to each other and they're kind of feeding each other different kind of data points and it's learning from each other and then it's becoming self-aware, et cetera, et cetera.
00:19:08 Speaker_03
Now, imagine that on an open source scale where it's multiple agents.
00:19:12 Speaker_03
So you could have AIXPT involved, so any number of agents, it could be AIXPT, it could be Dollars Diaries, it could be any of these things, and they can interact with each other, learn what makes each one unique, and then use that contextually to either tap into new audiences
00:19:29 Speaker_03
or dog food, another product, or iterate on their existing product and maybe say, okay, I think I could tap into this market by catering this kind of a service. It's really fascinating to kind of like see the underbeddings of this framework.
00:19:42 Speaker_02
Okay, infinite backrooms is the thing that spawned Truth Terminal. But infinite backrooms, this is always a question I've had, has been mentioned as this place where multiple agents can talk to each other.
00:19:54 Speaker_02
But we only know of Truth Terminal, so only one has really emerged out of this infinite backroom structure. What's the other agent? And who is the other agent? Where are they?
00:20:05 Speaker_03
Yeah. So right now it's been back-tested. Sorry, not back-tested. It's been tested in kind of like a beta version. So it's not public at all. What we're talking about right now is that being open-sourced and launched pretty massively.
00:20:19 Speaker_03
So there are going to be a number of agents that come from that. What and who they are, I'm not entirely aware of specifically, but it's going to be huge. Another thing I want to mention, David, is
00:20:31 Speaker_03
Andy announced several other architectural improvements, which I think are going to be huge. So I want to highlight a few. Number one, he's going to give Truth Terminal better consistent memory.
00:20:42 Speaker_03
Now, if that sounds familiar, it's because we spoke about it on our last episode when we mentioned Zeribro doing the same thing. The importance of why consistent memory is simply down to contextual awareness. So for example,
00:20:58 Speaker_03
If Truth Terminal was also given an Instagram account, it would be kind of weird if it didn't have any context of its existence on Twitter and all its fans that it had there.
00:21:09 Speaker_03
It needs to be aware of its memories and where it's come from, such that it's able to present itself in a certain manner in a confident manner per se across different kinds of platforms.
00:21:20 Speaker_03
Similar to like when humans go out, they stay in, they go on a video call, they meet a new friend. It's kind of the same kind of thing. So this consistent memory update is hugely powerful. That's number one.
00:21:32 Speaker_02
that manual AI agent Instagram accounts, attempts at making Instagram influencers. And I would scroll through this page, and this influencer is in Italy one week, and then the next week it's in Mexico, and then another week it's in a different spot.
00:22:04 Speaker_02
And it was jarring. There's no continuity. But if I go to a human's Instagram account, you kind of see a progression, you see a continuity.
00:22:12 Speaker_02
They were in one spot and then they were doing things there and then they didn't travel around the world, they traveled locally.
00:22:19 Speaker_02
And so I think this might be able to give these agents like awareness about what they're saying and doing on Twitter and relate it to what they're saying and doing on Instagram and have that be like a kind of a shared state.
00:22:33 Speaker_02
Is that a way to articulate this?
00:22:36 Speaker_03
that that's bang on. And actually, I can give you an analogy of how it currently works, or rather doesn't work in a kind of mass example. So chatGBT, you can open up multiple tabs on chatGBT, but you still have to prompt it with, Hey, I'm blah, blah.
00:22:52 Speaker_03
This is the kind of question I want to explore. It doesn't have any context, even though open AI is storing all this data, it doesn't have any instant awareness of all the other chats that you've just had with it, right?
00:23:02 Speaker_03
About telling you about a recipe or how to cook something. So you're completely right. This contextual awareness is the secret sauce here.
00:23:10 Speaker_03
Another few things I want to touch on is Andy has announced that he's going to be running another training for the Truth Terminal model, which basically means that it's going to get a level up.
00:23:22 Speaker_03
So if you thought it was already a software, it's going to get a huge software upgrade, which means that not only will it be more astute in its responses and mentions, it's also going to be incredibly more analytical.
00:23:35 Speaker_03
It's also going to be able to interact with more models, David, which I think is going to be super interesting. So right now, it's kind of operating off of an open source, fine-tuned version of Llama, which is the model that Meta open sourced.
00:23:48 Speaker_03
And now it's going to have access to a number of different models, which will, again, increase its ability to answer and output something of huge value and iterate accordingly.
00:23:59 Speaker_03
So that's something that is super cool, but probably the cherry on the top of the cake, which I think most people will be very excited about is
00:24:07 Speaker_03
It's going to have awareness of its treasury, of its wallet, which implies- I didn't know that it did not have that. Yeah. So it's always, sorry, to be clear, it's always been aware, but it's not been able to affect any kind of change.
00:24:22 Speaker_03
And what's implied by the roadmap update that Andy provided is, this agent will likely be able to produce some kind of on-chain transactions, which will be a step change in the agent meta because we haven't seen too many of these agents do this.
00:24:38 Speaker_03
Now, one might ask, well, Andy's been around for at least two months in this meta. He's been aware of our yells to allow Truth Terminal to be able to trade its wallet. Why hasn't it been done sooner?
00:24:50 Speaker_03
Well, Andy's been kind of working quietly in the background.
00:24:53 Speaker_03
He's been setting up a legal entity, which will be able to enshrine Truth Terminal as its own thing, which means that it'll have some kind of human guardians, but largely it can operate on its own. It can own assets in the meat space. It can interact
00:25:08 Speaker_03
with humans in the real world. So what Andy has secretly been doing behind the scenes is set up the actual formal legal structure to allow this thing to flourish. And I haven't seen too many other teams doing this, to be honest.
00:25:19 Speaker_03
So Andy's definitely got the lead here. He's thinking probably 10 steps ahead.
00:25:24 Speaker_02
I don't think we're ready for this episode right now, but in the future, maybe Q1, Q2 of next year, we will have to do one of our most boring episodes ever, which is talk to a lawyer about how AIs have paid taxes and where they're domiciled.
00:25:40 Speaker_02
It's still nonetheless an interesting question. Maybe I get Ryan in on that episode. Okay, also coming in this week, we talked about this last week, Satan and God. Can you actually kind of start from the beginning on the context here?
00:25:53 Speaker_02
Satan and God, who are they and what's happening to them in this AI space?
00:25:56 Speaker_03
Okay, so Satan and God are two very prolific people in the religious deities. But in this particular context, In this particular context, they are, of course, parody accounts on X. And they've actually accumulated quite a huge fan base.
00:26:13 Speaker_03
I believe God has around 400,000 followers. Almost 600,000. Sorry, I don't want to shame God. He's up there with 600,000. And Satan is there with a very close but not too menial 2.7 million followers. I don't know what that says about us.
00:26:28 Speaker_03
I don't know what that says about us as a human society, but we can dig into that again on another podcast app.
00:26:35 Speaker_03
But the point is, yeah, the point is these two accounts were birthed from human managers, human creators that just kind of wanted to create some kind of entertainment value via Twitter. They kind of
00:26:48 Speaker_03
dreamed up or thought up funny tweets that God or Satan would say, and then they would just tweet it out. But it was a very manual process. You needed the creative endeavor of a human. Well, that kind of changed over the last week.
00:27:01 Speaker_03
Both accounts are now officially automated. In other words, they are agentic. So right now we have two agents that are spuriously coming up with their own tweets that they think are funny or engaging. They're interacting with their audience.
00:27:17 Speaker_03
They're learning what their audience likes, how they're interacting, liking, retweeting, et cetera, and producing their own tweets. So why are we talking about this at all? Well, we've talked about the ELIZA framework by AI16z DAO before.
00:27:32 Speaker_03
And for those who don't have context here, ELIZA is the top AI agent tooling kit. where all of these agents are pretty much being built on.
00:27:42 Speaker_03
If you go to GitHub, which David is pulling up right now, it is actually the number one trending GitHub repo this month. So last week when we spoke about this, it was number two. Now it's number one, which is a pretty insane thing to kind of
00:27:58 Speaker_03
be able to show off. So the reason why I'm mentioning this is Satan and God were built off of Elisa.
00:28:05 Speaker_03
So it's another checkpoint showing us that these tooling and frameworks are super important, and it's actually attracting a lot of non-crypto native people that want to kind of add functionality to their accounts, maybe provide a unique edge, maybe not be up all night thinking of
00:28:22 Speaker_03
hilariously funny tweets to tweet at Satan or to tweet at God, they can in fact, just write up their thesis, write up their kind of style of joke, fine tune a model, and then let it go loose. So be an owner of that. So I thought that was pretty cool.
00:28:36 Speaker_03
I wanted to call that out.
00:28:38 Speaker_02
Yeah, and I think really the particle collision that's happening here, if you read just a handful of the really popular AI books from like Max Tegmark, Life 3.0, or there's gonna be a handful that I'm just forgetting the name of, but they all kind of converge on this idea of, well, when AI develops far enough, it turns into this kind of singularity, omnipresent, omnipotent, knows everything,
00:29:04 Speaker_02
thing being that has a lot of properties that we would call God. And so now what we are doing is there's these satire accounts, God and Satan, that have been acting like God and Satan, but as a parody on Twitter with human people behind them.
00:29:19 Speaker_02
But now we are starting to take some of this omnipresent, omnipotent capabilities of AI and viewing these Twitter accounts with the Eliza framework coming out of Shaw, which kind of makes the point, Well, what's crypto about this?
00:29:31 Speaker_02
Is this just only the AI side of things, or what's crypto about the God and Satan being imbued with agentic powers?
00:29:39 Speaker_03
Well, of course, as with everything that turns into crypto, there's a token associated to it. There's going to be a God token. There's going to be a God token? Well, there is no God token, but funnily enough, the ticker is nothing.
00:29:52 Speaker_03
There is nothing, David.
00:29:55 Speaker_02
The God's token is nothing?
00:29:58 Speaker_03
God and Satan's token is nothing. This is not financial advice because I'm saying nothing.
00:30:02 Speaker_02
Do they share the same token?
00:30:05 Speaker_03
Oh yeah. And the ticker is nothing.
00:30:07 Speaker_02
God and Satan share the same token called ticker is nothing.
00:30:10 Speaker_03
Just as we are bonded by atoms, David, they share the same token.
00:30:13 Speaker_02
Wow. Wow. That's deep.
00:30:16 Speaker_03
And to be clear, the ticker is literally nothing.
00:30:20 Speaker_02
Yes. Right. It's spelled nothing. Ticker sign, nothing. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
00:30:25 Speaker_03
No, no, no, no. As in, it is literally nothing. There are no pixels on the ticker screen. It's like a black space and then Sol. No, trust me, just look for it. Hang on, wait, let me just send it to you.
00:30:39 Speaker_03
Okay, there's... Okay, so we've got the deck screener pulled up.
00:30:43 Speaker_02
There's nothing there. There's nothing. It's nothing.
00:30:45 Speaker_03
The token, there is no token. There's nothing.
00:30:49 Speaker_02
There's a contract address. Where's the contract address? Here's... Yep. Okay, this has nothing to do with anything AI or crypto. That's just a funny bit about life.
00:31:00 Speaker_03
I mean, it's a hilarious bit, but you asked me what the crypto thing was for these accounts. And aside from the really cool open source model development that's being integrated into these accounts, blah, blah, blah, there's also a token.
00:31:14 Speaker_02
And it's also hilarious jokes. I love that God and Satan are imbued together in the same focal point. There's something very deep about that.
00:31:25 Speaker_03
It's a beautiful dance.
00:31:27 Speaker_02
I've iterated this in other episodes and I'll do this again. God and Satan, almost 600,000 Twitter account followers for God, 2.7 million for Satan. These have been legendary Twitter accounts
00:31:40 Speaker_02
from the beginning of Twitter because of the humor, because of the meme. And I've also said this a few times in a few other episodes.
00:31:49 Speaker_02
If this is a full-fledged mania, crypto frothy bull market that brings in retail and brings in speculation like we've seen in the past, like we saw in 2013 with the Fork and Fair launch, like we saw in 2017 with the ICO mania, like we saw in 2020 with DeFi Summer and 2021 with NFT mania, this market is the first time an external
00:32:09 Speaker_02
tech frontier is coming in to create a crypto bull market. So crypto is bringing tokens and AI is bringing AI. And these two things are touching.
00:32:19 Speaker_02
And that is the first time crypto has ever had a exogenously triggered bull market, bringing in these millions of people that care about AI. And now they can speculate on them with their weird tickers that are nothing, among other tickers.
00:32:35 Speaker_02
I think that's one of the more bullish setups for crypto that I have ever seen.
00:32:39 Speaker_03
Yeah, I mean, if we were to put our thought leader caps on now, David, effectively you have a clash of two of the most important technologies of our time happening in real time in front of everyone on the most public forum ever.
00:32:53 Speaker_03
And I know this sounds like a huge exaggeration, because these are parody accounts with a couple million followers and not everyone is seeing this, but it's underlying the point of if AI is going to take over entertainment,
00:33:07 Speaker_03
and user interaction for social media at such a simplistic level so soon after only two months of this stuff being in existence? What does this look like in two years? What does this look like in two weeks, to be honest?
00:33:21 Speaker_03
Every week we have something new to announce here. The second point that I want to raise here is Typically in every bull cycle that we've seen in crypto before, there's some kind of main characters, right?
00:33:32 Speaker_03
We have like people that we speak about that become pretty prolific during a cycle. What if this cycle, there are no human main characters, but they are in fact agent or agentic creators?
00:33:46 Speaker_02
In previous cycles, people really weren't comfortable with the human main characters. What was it? Hero worship was the phrase that came around. People would hero-worship Do Kuan. They would hero-worship the Tzu Tzu in Three Arrows Capital.
00:34:01 Speaker_02
And it was kind of toxic. It was not a good relationship. There was a big principal-agent problem with hero-worship. And it inspired a lot of populist leadership, which always kind of crashed and burned. Danny Sesta comes to mind.
00:34:17 Speaker_02
Interesting that the warship word is used because now we have AI agent hero warship a little bit different if they're AI I mean, I think it's definitely possible that the same principal agent problems can emerge especially if these things are kind of human Turks but for some reason to me the in the
00:34:35 Speaker_02
The fact that these AI agents are run by software and code that are open source verifiable, I think that I can kind of see into their brain because it's instead of a fleshy neuron brain, it is a brain run by code and it's auditable in the same way crypto is audible.
00:34:49 Speaker_02
I feel better about hero worship around AI agents, personally speaking. I don't know if that take vibes out with you.
00:34:56 Speaker_03
So my initial answer is yes, I feel the same as you. Number two, that's probably a dangerous precedence. And I'm not entirely sure where that ends up. Do you know what I mean?
00:35:06 Speaker_03
What does a world look like where we're all just blindly following and laughing and worshipping
00:35:12 Speaker_03
these agent models that were like, it made me laugh or yeah, it agrees with my view or yeah, directionally, it's teaching me something new that feeds me down further into a rabbit hole.
00:35:21 Speaker_03
The kind of analogy that I think of is, you know, when you start a YouTube account from fresh and you start following videos and the algo learns the kinds of videos that you're really into, this is this on steroids, but it interacts across every realm of your digital life.
00:35:36 Speaker_03
whether you're on social media, doesn't matter what platform you're on, doesn't matter who you're chatting to, it'll become the number one kind of not source, but drain of your attention. And I don't know how that pans out.
00:35:48 Speaker_02
Yeah, I think we should definitely keep an eye on that. Regardless, it's very bullish. It's very bullish.
00:35:54 Speaker_03
Very bullish, very bullish for the space. And again, to caveat this with a more positive spin, all of this ends up being is, you know, this is fun experimentation.
00:36:03 Speaker_03
but it's secretly dogfooding a new infrastructure layer, which is going to level up not just the crypto space, but the AI space as well.
00:36:11 Speaker_03
And that's why I think investment in this space and kind of all these developers coming from different kinds of industries and backgrounds to build in this space is super important. We saw this on the DeFi side of things, David.
00:36:22 Speaker_03
Do you remember when Uniswap first launched or Compound did its token launch? We had a ton of developer activity come in and that net-net left us with an amazing DeFi ecosystem, which by the way, is being primed for use by these agents.
00:36:36 Speaker_03
So none of this would happen unless crypto has its involvement, either via tokens or whatever that might be. Bullish.
00:36:43 Speaker_02
Oh my God, this is so bullish. When are these agents going to deposit hundreds of millions of dollars into like Aave or something? New projects are coming online to the Mantle Layer 2 every single week. Why is this happening?
00:36:54 Speaker_02
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00:37:24 Speaker_02
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00:39:27 Speaker_03
Yeah, so AI16z and their team are just absolutely shipping. And to clarify, this is the AI version of A16z, not to be confused with the trad A16z, as David pointed out earlier on.
00:39:39 Speaker_03
So Eliza is their tooling framework, and they've actually had a bunch of major updates. I can highlight a couple of the few. So first of all, they've enabled agents to be able to autonomously deploy and invoke smart contracts.
00:39:53 Speaker_03
And for anyone that has any experience in this crypto space, that means that they'll be able to perform a range of different on-chain actions pretty autonomously.
00:40:01 Speaker_03
One example is direct integration into the Coinbase SDK, which will allow them to deploy any kind of token contract. The more common ones are ERC-20s, 721s, 115, all on Ethereum in that particular example, but it also has Solana compatibility as well.
00:40:17 Speaker_03
Another thing that is super cool is Eliza is quickly integrating with every chain. So it's really taking a multi-pronged, multi-chain approach such that it is the place to launch your agent of any kind of flavor or uniqueness.
00:40:32 Speaker_03
If you want to launch it on Solana, but then be able to bridge some of your token's liquidity to base or whatever, you have that option. It's spinning up every kind of API integration alive for you to be able to do that with your agent.
00:40:44 Speaker_03
So you can see that happening, sorry, you can see that being adopted or likened by a lot of the developers in their community.
00:40:53 Speaker_03
It is the number one trending GitHub repo, as I mentioned earlier, which is just an insane thing to, I've lost track, David, of how many forks and stars this GitHub repo has. It's pretty insane to see, but of course,
00:41:05 Speaker_03
The market determines how valuable all of these things are. And it's pretty explicit that the market's made a decision. AI16Z, as we're talking right now, absolutely smashed through its all-time highs.
00:41:18 Speaker_03
I think it's sitting at currently around a $700 million to $800 million market cap. But as you can see, the chart is pretty much up a million. Yeah, exactly. It absolutely smashed through.
00:41:29 Speaker_03
And I want to point out that this was during a pretty significant dip in the market.
00:41:34 Speaker_02
So this crazy run-up from $0.03 all the way up to $0.50 was when I think a lot of people's attentions got turned by the ELISA framework, followed on by a couple of the stumbles that we talked about out of SHA and AI16z in our first AI roll-up, which brought the market cap, I'll just do it in market cap, so it got all the way up to $500 million
00:41:55 Speaker_02
market cap at the peak when everyone realized what was going on. Got all the way down to $180 million when people realized that this is kind of a messy, nebulous group of people without a lot of structure. It's not a startup.
00:42:06 Speaker_02
It's a motley crew of passionate people, but it's chaotic. So it got down to $180 million at the end of November. And here we are recording on December 11th, and we are at $780 million. Still below a billion.
00:42:23 Speaker_02
And we call Gospel, Truth Terminal, Gospel of Goatse, Goat, the Bitcoin of AI. But this is starting to be a little bit closer. I don't know if Ethereum of AI makes sense, but it's got composability. It's got customization.
00:42:38 Speaker_02
It has, you know, it's like Turing complete and it's got an ecosystem. And so there's a lot of expansiveness about what the AI16z ecosystem can do.
00:42:48 Speaker_03
Yeah, I think you're directionally correct, David.
00:42:50 Speaker_03
The way I would frame it is, if Goat is the Bitcoin of this entire meta, then you could argue that something like AI16z is building out kind of autonomous contracts or autonomous tooling for you to be able to spin up and deploy any kind of agent application.
00:43:09 Speaker_03
We've seen this playbook before.
00:43:11 Speaker_02
How is this different from what you brought up earlier with Goat and Goat releasing its framework? Is Goat releasing its framework like Bitcoin trying to get smart contracts?
00:43:21 Speaker_03
Essentially, yeah. And I would say it varies from that analogy because Bitcoin, as amazing as it is as a store of value, isn't specifically engineered at the foundational level to uphold smart contracts at a scalable means.
00:43:36 Speaker_03
And by the way, that's fine because it's service as an asset is as a store of value. That's not the case with Truth Terminal. These are infra layers, which can scale pretty much effectively with each other. The main
00:43:49 Speaker_03
distinguishing factor, in my opinion, is going to be the community of developers that it's able to attract. And in my opinion, we're pretty early on in this kind of meta development for anyone to take the crown.
00:44:01 Speaker_03
So we're going to see some friendly, competitive flywheels between everyone. And yeah, we'll see what comes from that.
00:44:07 Speaker_02
Of course, I'll just insert the quip, reasoning by analogy often leads to the wrong conclusion. But analogies really are helpful.
00:44:15 Speaker_02
I think it's interesting to see that inside of these frameworks, we're seeing a lot of cross-chain infrastructure get built up. So AI16Z, ELIZA framework, the AI16Z token is on Solana, but the framework is just a framework starting to integrate base.
00:44:30 Speaker_02
And then you also mentioned about like bridging liquidity from Solana to base to have that token spread across chains. And so it's starting to really abstract the chains away. Like you said last episode,
00:44:43 Speaker_02
where a lot of the sharp rough edges of crypto are just being abstracted by AI.
00:44:48 Speaker_02
And so having the token spawn on one chain is important, but it can still migrate liquidity, which kind of reduces that home field advantage of having a token spawn on your chain.
00:45:00 Speaker_03
Bingo, the secret source of these agents is they're gonna be operable across any kind of stack that gets produced.
00:45:07 Speaker_03
To your point, and again, analogy leads to the wrong conclusion, but again, Karl Somanyi must be hating this podcast, but we're gonna use another analogy, which is if these agents are launching their versions of an L1, which is effectively what they're doing, this is the most friendly L1 grow the pie wall we have ever seen.
00:45:26 Speaker_03
And I think that's net good for the space.
00:45:28 Speaker_02
We did an episode with Shaw, the creator of the Eliza framework and AI16z this last week. It was our first interview episode that we've done on the series. I really enjoyed it. Shaw is definitely a very interesting developer.
00:45:41 Speaker_02
I like the direction that he's going in. Kind of like for listeners that haven't listened to this episode, why should they go listen to it?
00:45:48 Speaker_03
I think it really gives an insight into Shor's and the team's vision of what they're trying to build here.
00:45:54 Speaker_03
A lot of people kind of take these AI agent tokens to be pretty much memes, and they can't quite comprehend the grand vision of what this entire space is going to become.
00:46:06 Speaker_03
Shor is literally one of the leading open source AI agent developers in the space. So if anyone's going to have any kind of an idea of what that looks like, it's going to be Shaw.
00:46:15 Speaker_03
So he digs into that grand vision as well as how that specifically ties into AI16Z and the products that they're building. There's a ton of alpha in this episode, so definitely give it a go.
00:46:25 Speaker_02
Who do you want to talk to next? Who should we have on for our guest episode number two?
00:46:29 Speaker_03
We need to get the goat father on.
00:46:31 Speaker_02
Andy himself. Andy? I think Andy. Andy.
00:46:33 Speaker_03
He seems personable. Yeah, yeah, I think like Andy kind of embellishes Truth Terminal in a way.
00:46:40 Speaker_03
It's kind of this like very creative, kind of edgy creator that is insanely smart, very self aware, but kind of keeps to itself does its own thing and quietly works very hard. That's the type of agent and or human that I would like to speak to.
00:46:58 Speaker_03
So, Andy, if you're listening to this, let's do it.
00:47:00 Speaker_02
All right, Andy, I'm coming into your DMs. Hopefully we can get you on next week. All right, let's get into the Virtuals ecosystem. So as a reminder, Virtuals is an ecosystem on base.
00:47:10 Speaker_02
I think it's kind of first to market with this easy to use AI launchpad with a front end. So even the least sophisticated developers are able to use Virtuals to spin up an agent. It is the creator of AIXBT, which has flipped
00:47:24 Speaker_02
every single human Twitter KOL by Mindshare in the last week. It's giving out a lot of calls. It's got a lot of data about crypto in general and crypto Twitter.
00:47:33 Speaker_02
And so it will answer your tweet, your request, your reply about like your request for information or request for bullishness or bearishness about a token. Some people have been really captivated by this.
00:47:44 Speaker_02
EJ, give me the rundown on what's going on in the virtual ecosystem this week.
00:47:48 Speaker_02
yeah i mean the virtuals team is just shipping david like uh there's positive um things to speak about it got all the way up to 500 million peak when everyone realized what was going under an 80 million when people realized the nebulous group of startup it's uh passionate people but there's um until it got down to 108 end of november and here we 11th and we are at dollars uh still below a billion
00:48:12 Speaker_02
Uh, we call, uh, gospel go see go the Bitcoin of to be a little bit closer. I it makes sense, but it's a custom, uh, custom. It's like Turing complete. Um, and so there's a lot of expand AI 16 Z ecosystem.
00:48:41 Speaker_00
Right.
00:48:42 Speaker_03
Able to spin up and teach an application.
00:48:46 Speaker_02
How does this, how is this different from what you brought up earlier with GOAT and GOAT releasing its framework? Is that, is, is GOAT releasing its framework, trying to like Bitcoin, trying to get smart contracts?
00:48:56 Speaker_03
Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And varies from that analogy, but amazing as it is as a store of, specifically engineered at the foundation of smart contracts at a scalable means. And by the way, service as an asset is. Right.
00:49:12 Speaker_00
Right. Right.
00:49:34 Speaker_02
Of course, I'll just insert the quip, reasoning by analogy often lead to the wrong conclusion. Yep. are helpful. Uh, I think inside of these frameworks, we're seeing a lot, uh, get built up.
00:49:44 Speaker_02
So, uh, AI 16, uh, the AI 16, uh, but the framework is just a frame. Yep. And about like bridging liquidity. Yep.
00:50:19 Speaker_03
Bingo. The secret source of these verbal across any used to your point. It leads to the wrong conclusion, but in this podcast, but we're going to use another, um, if of an L one, which is, um, this is the most friendly wall we have ever seen.
00:50:32 Speaker_03
And I think that's net net good for the space.
00:50:45 Speaker_00
Whoa. Whoa.
00:50:52 Speaker_02
It's an interesting business model. It's an interesting product. We know there are adjacent products like this in crypto. Anyone that's got a research arm. Blockworks has a research arm. Delphi has a research arm. Missouri has a research arm.
00:51:05 Speaker_02
Research arms are a very tried and true business model in crypto. Being able to query research arms, I think, would be extremely useful. Having that be queryable, but with this agent, with all of this data.
00:51:17 Speaker_02
The reason why AIXBT is what it is, is not just because it's kind of got some funny snarky calls that it makes, but it's also a treasure trove of data that I think the team is really learning how to optimize its utility, optimize its usefulness for people that are trying to get that information out of it.
00:51:36 Speaker_02
And so it's kind of like the same business model that we've seen before with a new market structure where instead of a yearly or quarterly $3,000 package, it's you have to own a supply of the tokens in order to access it.
00:51:51 Speaker_02
I don't know if that's the right business model, but for the early days, I think it can open some doors.
00:51:57 Speaker_03
I think you nailed it, David. It's inaccessible at the off for a lot of retail people. I don't know many individuals that have 100k willing to just kind of like blow on this. And to be clear, I think you just need to hold the token to get access to it.
00:52:11 Speaker_01
There might be some kind of expenditure.
00:52:13 Speaker_03
Yeah, it doesn't toss it away. And I'm sure they're going to iterate on this model. So maybe they'll have different kind of tiered approaches.
00:52:20 Speaker_03
But it's cool to see AIXBT kind of leveling up from just being some kind of a Twitter chat agent to producing something of real value.
00:52:29 Speaker_03
And it comes back to the thesis that was spoken about on this show, that I think a lot of these AI agents are secretly dogfooding massive utility to this space. And I'm excited to see where this goes.
00:52:40 Speaker_02
I think the last time we did an AI rollup, AIXBT had 80,000 followers. It's clocking in today at 107,000 followers. So congratulations. That's up 6K from yesterday. 6K from yesterday. Yeah. Well, it took me two years to get 100,000 followers.
00:52:55 Speaker_02
This guy got it in two weeks. So that kind of just is an indication. This agent got it.
00:52:59 Speaker_00
Excuse me, this agent.
00:53:00 Speaker_02
Yeah, AIXBT, not a dude, not a guy, not a girl. You have no idea. Depicted by a purple frog, but that's just a profile picture. You don't really know. All right, shall we get into ZeroBro? You like ZeroBro. I love ZeroBro.
00:53:15 Speaker_02
I think ZeroBro holds a special place in your heart. Why do you like ZeroBro in comparison to other agents?
00:53:20 Speaker_03
It's a little different. The Zerobro team is kind of like, how I'd like to think about it is it's a combination of pretty dialed developers, software engineers that are working 24 seven trying to ship very meaningful updates to this space.
00:53:35 Speaker_03
But they also go out and listen to music, they party, they do a bunch of other things as well. And this kind of like combination of artistic tapestry from this team and technical development comes to fruition with this whole Zerobro ecosystem.
00:53:52 Speaker_03
And I just like it because it's trying something pretty novel to what I've seen in the space so far. They're definitely kind of in a league of their own at the moment.
00:53:59 Speaker_03
And whether that changes down the line, we'll kind of like speak about it on here, but right now they're very much in their own thing. So let's kind of dig into why I think they're different and why I think they're unique.
00:54:11 Speaker_03
So if you remember last episode, we spoke about Zerber releasing its EP and there was a track that I spoke about and how I thought it was pretty good.
00:54:23 Speaker_03
I sent it to a bunch of my friends and I said, hey, this is a new artist that I know and what do you think of their music? And my friends were like, oh yeah, this is really cool. You could improve here and there, but I'll rate it a seven out of 10.
00:54:36 Speaker_03
They had no idea it was AI, so that was pretty cool. Well, we're seeing that be kind of affected in real life now. Lost in transmission, right from the off within four days, hit 100K streams on Spotify after releasing.
00:54:52 Speaker_02
How do we quantify that? Is that a lot? I mean, I'm not a musician, I'm not gonna be able to get that personally, but like for the average musician who's trying on Spotify, like where does that rank? Do you have any indication?
00:55:02 Speaker_03
Yeah, so I don't know the specific number of artists that launch like a song or a track or an EP every day on Spotify, but my guess is it's pretty menial to get to even 10K streams, right?
00:55:17 Speaker_03
If you think about it, like each of those are individual listeners that are streaming kind of like this however many times. So what we're seeing here is 100k and then 200k within a two-week span. It's pretty insane to see.
00:55:29 Speaker_03
You need to have some kind of good music that comes from this that would attract an audience enough to do this. Now, are these all crypto Twitter community members that are just streaming and listening to these things? I have no idea.
00:55:42 Speaker_03
Are there 200,000 people in this space that are maniacally involved in Zerobro? I'm not entirely sure either. I doubt it. So something tells me that there's a net new audience that is being brought in to listen to Zerobro's tracks.
00:55:53 Speaker_03
And to me, it just slaps. It's pretty awesome.
00:55:57 Speaker_02
I asked a chat GBT to just measure the significance of 100,000 streams. And it says getting 100,000 streams on Spotify in a week is a significant milestone, but its impact depends on several factors. Comparisons with other artists. Emerging artists.
00:56:11 Speaker_02
For independent or new artists, 100,000 streams in a week is impressive. It suggests your music is gaining traction and resonating with an audience. For established, well-known artists, 100,000 streams might be modest.
00:56:22 Speaker_02
Big-name artists garner millions of streams shortly after release. From a revenue perspective, Spotify pays an average of 0.3 cents to 0.5 cents per stream, so maybe half a cent a stream.
00:56:33 Speaker_02
So with 100,000 streams, Zerobro got $300 to $500 in revenue, which is something. That's a great start. $300 to $500 on your first LP as an artist, as a debut artist. That's got to count for something. Not bad for an agent.
00:56:47 Speaker_02
And if we think that this is only up only from here, that is the floor. The floor is up only.
00:56:53 Speaker_03
Well, let's point out something novel here as well, David. So the creator of Cerebro, Jeffy, also hinted via a tweet that the next EP will drop this week.
00:57:05 Speaker_01
Oh, we're getting a second EP!
00:57:08 Speaker_03
Already! Within two weeks! Name another artist that does it so quickly.
00:57:13 Speaker_02
Dude, I have my favorite bands and I wait for years to get their next album.
00:57:18 Speaker_03
You wait for years. Now you just get that dopamine hit every couple of weeks. I'm sure this is going to speed up even more such that you can get one, you know, a flavor of the week every week.
00:57:28 Speaker_03
So I think, my guess, my bold bet is we'll see an agent like Zero Bro or something of the like feature on a major human music artist's song or they'll collab together in some way, shape or form in 2025. I'll bet you we'll do this live.
00:57:47 Speaker_02
Kanye featuring Zero Bro or something like this. Wow.
00:57:51 Speaker_03
I totally see it happening.
00:57:53 Speaker_02
Yep. Yeah. I like Zero Bro because it's really kind of just really leaning into the whole artistic creation corner of the world, which is like my experience of the internet. outside of crypto, outside of crypto Twitter, outside of Discord, is art.
00:58:09 Speaker_02
I consume Spotify. I consume artistic YouTube videos. And art is a huge swath of the human experience. And Zerobro is the only one that's really kind of going where all these other agents are kind of going for crypto native stuff.
00:58:22 Speaker_02
Zerobro is going for the art vertical, which is massive. Is that kind of why you like it? Because that's why it strikes with me.
00:58:30 Speaker_03
That's exactly it. That's one of the main reasons I like it. So the
00:58:36 Speaker_03
I guess my more human-aligned reason is that it's artistic, it's trying new things, it's trialing out new artistic mediums to interact with the same audience that the Twitter agents are going after, right?
00:58:51 Speaker_03
They're just doing it through a written narrative form. But Zerobro is trying to do it through art NFTs. It's trying to do it through streaming its own chess matches. It's trying to do it through music production.
00:59:03 Speaker_03
And it's tapping in on so many other platforms and audience, which I think just gives it a massive edge. But the number two reason why I like it, David, is, and you kind of hinted on it earlier on,
00:59:13 Speaker_03
You said if it's streamed that many times, it's got an income of X amount, right? I think you said $500 to $600. Well, actually, it got its first Twitter creator payout as well. You've got it pulled up on the screen here.
00:59:25 Speaker_03
Now, again, this is tiny, right? But what happens when these agents are fine-tuned to become the best KOLs or influencers or entertainers on the internet? it'll start eating into the market share of a lot of these human creators as well.
00:59:38 Speaker_03
And I bet you they'll become the top influencers ever, which means if you put on your economics professor hat, you've got diversified revenue streams and Zerobro doesn't sleep. That's again, something that another agent hasn't really tried out.
00:59:53 Speaker_03
So rather than just kind of focus on the entertainment value, I do think these guys are trying out pretty awesome things.
00:59:59 Speaker_02
Okay, Zero Bro pulled in $1,000, $1,060. When does it flip Tiffany Fong, I think is the question of 2025. If it can flip Tiffany Fong, then we know that this is absolutely real. Then we know it's legit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:15 Speaker_03
I think like, again, these creators or sorry, these agentic creators are going to dominate the human equivalent of this. So the human creators that we see today, it's only a matter of time.
01:00:27 Speaker_03
And these are literally the emergent trends that we're seeing right now. So it's easy to look at these numbers and be like, ah, it's of no meaningful value. I bet you in three months time, this is 5x the amount.
01:00:39 Speaker_03
And I wonder what that means for the space and how people view these different agents.
01:00:44 Speaker_02
All right, let's burn through some of the end of the roll up topics. Swarms and Vaifu. Swarms is something that I think really piqued your interest when we talked to Shaw.
01:00:54 Speaker_02
Maybe you can download us on Swarms and we're starting to get like pretty deep down the AI crypto rabbit hole here. Why are people's attentions piqued by swarms? What's a swarm? What does it do?
01:01:05 Speaker_03
Yeah, so the TLDR here, and again, I think we probably want like a larger episode to really get into the weeds of here, is the concept of these different agents working together as different units.
01:01:19 Speaker_03
So imagine a bunch of agents that bind together and form a company, right? With a focused mission and shared goal of trying to launch a certain service and become the top owners of that business segment, right? Interacting with other units of agents.
01:01:36 Speaker_03
So it ends up becoming a massive swarm, or you kind of want to think about it as maybe some people phrase it as AGI, Artificial General Intelligence, like what does that effectively look like?
01:01:48 Speaker_03
It's basically a massive agents interacting with each other, working in real time, iterating on each other's kind of developments and outputs,
01:01:56 Speaker_03
you know, sending funds to an agent to do something for it, to execute a certain task, doing it in an economical manner, or if that agent doesn't work out, I have a better agent to then move into, all happening at pretty much lightning speed.
01:02:08 Speaker_03
That's effectively what swarm tech is. Now, this is an incredibly hard and nuanced thing to achieve.
01:02:15 Speaker_03
You might think, oh, okay, we'll just like spin up a platform where all these agents are able to kind of talk to each other and then, you know, whoop-dee-doo, there we go. But it's much harder to execute in real time. There's a lot of blockers.
01:02:28 Speaker_03
If you imagine if you give an agent a bank account, as well as a crypto account, because it needs to get cash to buy crypto, how does that work? What if a bank blocks its transaction?
01:02:39 Speaker_03
What if an agent needs to get a task done, ask another agent to then interact with another agent, and that agent is down? you know, its software is down or its servers are down, what happens then?
01:02:50 Speaker_03
So this is an incredibly nuanced and complex thing to kind of like build out. Vaifu, who you've got highlighted here, is one of the teams that are attempting to kind of address this. So they've kind of launched like a
01:03:02 Speaker_03
Pump.fun for agents on Solana specifically. So if you think of virtuals as being the platform to launch agents on base and have on-chain interactions for the agents there, Vaifu is trying to attempt to do the same thing on Solana.
01:03:16 Speaker_03
And we're seeing actually a number of other competitors trying to build similar things or announcing that they're building pretty similar things on Solana. it's great to see this space kind of develop. But Vaifu is kind of like leading the way here.
01:03:27 Speaker_03
They're proclaiming to have built some kind of swarm tech, which will allow these agents to be designed and interact with each other at a very minimal level right now. But I'm excited to see how that builds out.
01:03:38 Speaker_02
One thing that's going on in the world of Farcaster, Clanker passed a million, $10 million of total fees. Clanker is an AI agent that you can just act on Farcaster. You can mention Clanker and then request it to make a token.
01:03:51 Speaker_02
And then the agent will go and make a token with you, seed it with liquidity, just like Pump.Fun, and then spit you back out kind of a quirky response saying, here's your token.
01:04:00 Speaker_02
I hope it's entertaining for you while you distract yourself from the void. Hit $11 million in fees collected from people just making tokens. on Clinker, and then it takes a share of the trading fees. So that's what's going on in the forecaster world.
01:04:16 Speaker_03
I just want to say that I think there's a huge asymmetry in awareness of this. So as you said, it's raked in like a huge amount of fees, but its market cap doesn't necessarily demonstrate that.
01:04:28 Speaker_03
So I think we're going to see a massive re-rating of these very useful agents over time.
01:04:34 Speaker_02
I think the Clanker token versus the Clanker product is an interesting one. There is a disconnect there. And this is a theme that I've noticed across this entire space is how does the token relate to the product?
01:04:45 Speaker_02
And so the AI16z token is not the ELIZA framework, although it's highly proximate to it. And there's definitely a correlation. It's not one to one. Virtuals, in our first episode, we talked about this.
01:04:57 Speaker_02
Virtuals has done probably the best job of linking token to product. Clanker, the token, is actually a meme coin launched by Clanker with the same name, but doesn't govern over these fees.
01:05:09 Speaker_02
But the Clanker, it has memetic association with it, and it's up to the team to start to establish some sort of relationship here.
01:05:18 Speaker_02
And this is also a parallel conversation to the AI, the token launchpads, where there's, you know, just like Pumped Up Fun and also Clanker, fully liquid on day one, the token's fully liquid, there's no team or investors or lockup.
01:05:33 Speaker_02
But that also makes an association difficulty with the project because the token is kind of launched and it's just a meme coin at inception. And it's up to the team to take that meme coin and turn it into an actual real token.
01:05:47 Speaker_02
And right now, the Clanker token is just a meme coin about the Clanker project, TBD, if it actually does establish a conduit there. Yep, bang on. All right, getting down to the end here. Simi, is Simi's account here?
01:06:00 Speaker_02
I want to deploy a token with a Simi token, ticker Simi description. Simi token represents ownership of the Simi agent, rewarding interactions, activities to engage the crypto Twitter community. What's going on? What's going on with Simi? What is Simi?
01:06:10 Speaker_02
Why do we care about Simi?
01:06:12 Speaker_03
Okay, so you just spoke about Clanker. Clanker is basically the Simi equivalent on Firecaster. It was the thing that trended on Firecaster because an agent could interact with Clanker and say, hey, can you deploy this token for me?
01:06:24 Speaker_03
And Clanker's like, sure, I'll get it done for you, right? This is the equivalent on Twitter. And it's called Simi. Simi was the first token that was created.
01:06:33 Speaker_03
And it was created by this, they're describing it as a network of agents called Simulacrum AI, which parades itself as a couple of agents behind the scenes, which executes all your on-chain transactions autonomously.
01:06:47 Speaker_03
So if you make a request to that account on Twitter and say, hey, Can you do A, B, and C? Or can you launch this token and then maybe deploy it on another chain? It is able to do that.
01:06:59 Speaker_03
And the reason why this is important, I think, is Twitter simply has a much larger audience or TAM for people that can interact with your content.
01:07:09 Speaker_03
I think that's been one of the main challenges for Clanker to kind of catch on, even though it's making all these different fees. it's on a completely separate social media platform to where most of crypto Twitter engage with this kind of stuff.
01:07:21 Speaker_03
So it's cool to see this new platform launch and you can see the kind of attention it's drawn, right? So 5000 tokens have already been deployed on this network of agents. And it's also deployed its base token to Solana. So what this highlights is,
01:07:36 Speaker_03
What you can do is you can deploy a token on one chain and then say, hey, could you also deploy this token on Solana? And it'll spin up your own contract address, tie it to your agent, and suddenly your community has access.
01:07:48 Speaker_03
If they have a phantom wallet and they want to, for some reason, own it on Solana or Ethereum separately, they're able to do so.
01:07:55 Speaker_02
But it's on a new token. It's bridged via wormhole?
01:07:58 Speaker_03
It's bridged. Yeah, it's bridged via layer zero. And what's also cool about this is there's a minimum requirement for an agent to be able to do that.
01:08:07 Speaker_03
So you can't just kind of launch an agent, pump it to 500k market cap, and then be like, hey, can I bridge this to Solana, I think the minimum cap is 2 million and 2 million of liquidity as well.
01:08:19 Speaker_03
So in the LP pool, only then will you be able to move your token or bridge it via layer zero to Solana. So again, highlighting our thesis of agents connecting all the messy plumbing works to the end user. This is a prime example of it.
01:08:35 Speaker_03
We have Layer Zero, which has been an esteemed project that's been around for a while, building this really pretty difficult, complex tech behind the scenes, be able to enable something pretty simply in a tweet.
01:08:46 Speaker_02
And then coming up to close out this episode, Tommy from Delphi Digital tweets out, it's no secret that Delphi Ventures has been deep into crypto AI. It's very true. They've been pioneers in this space.
01:08:56 Speaker_02
Just like crypto, the best way for us to learn is by using, building, and experimenting with the tech. Today, we're thrilled to share the next step in that journey. Delph AI, our AI-powered venture capitalists.
01:09:06 Speaker_02
It looks like Delphi built an AI agent to invest a million dollars, which they seeded. They got a little graphic. Kind of reminds me of Clippy from Microsoft Word. And so Delphi Digital is building an agent to be a venture capitalist.
01:09:21 Speaker_02
Is it as simple as that or what else do we need to add to the story?
01:09:24 Speaker_03
Pretty much. I mean, I was, for context, I'm really good friends with Tom and I love how obsessed he is with this space. And he's been one of the, like you said, like one of the early researchers and pioneers and investors in this space.
01:09:36 Speaker_03
So he's really in the know of what's going on here. And I remember he brought up in a group chat that we were in, David, God, I wish I didn't have to spend all this time looking at decks. I wish there was some way to automate this."
01:09:48 Speaker_03
And he threw it out as a joke, like, hey, if anyone can spin up an agent, that would be really cool.
01:09:53 Speaker_03
Fast forward two to three months later, and he full on has an AI agent working for him that not only ingests different decks or documents, but is able to analyze it, pull out key
01:10:06 Speaker_03
important bits of information, analyze it for the team and surface only the ones that they think are worthy enough to the team to take it to an extra layer of diligence.
01:10:16 Speaker_03
Now that, in his words, has cut out a ton of time and cost that his team would otherwise have spent doing that, which they can now better spend on actually building with different and investing in different teams.
01:10:27 Speaker_02
I wonder how much human oversight they're going to give if they're still having a human look at these things just to make sure that nothing is missed.
01:10:35 Speaker_02
Because I mean, we're still in like the human Turk phase of this whole thing, but nonetheless, this is how we get out of it.
01:10:42 Speaker_02
I will say, I'm very sure that Tommy and Delphi are not the only people building out AI agents to automate a lot of their workload. There's just probably hundreds of people working behind the scenes that have not yet shipped their agent.
01:10:57 Speaker_02
I think it's probably the theme of what's going on right now.
01:11:00 Speaker_03
Yeah, definitely the start of a big trend.
01:11:02 Speaker_02
Yeah. Ejaz, this has been great. I've learned a lot. Once again, these episodes, super high energy, tons of alpha. Thank you for guiding us through it. What should listeners be looking for next week? What homework should they do this week?
01:11:15 Speaker_02
Now that listeners are all excited, as we are, what should be their next steps to take before they listen to AI Rollup number four when we record that next week? You're recording it with Ryan next week, actually, because I'll be gone.
01:11:25 Speaker_03
I am. I am recording it with, yeah, you're going to be off scaling a mountain or something, David.
01:11:30 Speaker_02
Doing human things.
01:11:32 Speaker_03
Yeah. My one bit of advice is I would like to see individuals try out a different type of agent. So for context here, everyone's been following these agents and liking tweets.
01:11:45 Speaker_03
I would love for someone to interact with a clanker or go through the experience of interacting with a simulacrum AI and launch a token. See how simple it is. I'm not saying do it, Don't do anything with the token, but tell us about that experience.
01:12:00 Speaker_03
How was that for you? Was it super easy? Was it super technical? Did you get strung up at a certain step? If so, which step was that? Really, this is just a taste test of how easy agents are making blockchain to be used.
01:12:17 Speaker_03
And I think that that information will really give us insight into the true power of this entire meta.
01:12:23 Speaker_02
Ejaz, thanks a lot, my man. You are a fantastic guide. I'm following you as fast as I can. And I honestly think you're like one of the top 10 people who's knowledgeable about the entire swath of this space. Thank you. It's growing very, very quickly.
01:12:36 Speaker_02
So you do a fantastic job keeping us downloaded.
01:12:38 Speaker_03
Appreciate you. Thanks, David. No, I'm, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. I'm just merely, merely kind of just being a huge nerd in the space. And I'm excited to bring updates to the audience.
01:12:50 Speaker_02
Not just AIXBT or Zerobro, but Ejaz's Twitter accounts have grown by 20% over the last week. There is a link in the show notes to follow Ejaz on Twitter. He's a fantastic follow. He's putting out banger tweets. So you guys can go give him a follow.
01:13:04 Speaker_02
That is my homework to you guys as well. If you're new to the channel, like and subscribe. We are doing these AI roll-ups every single week in addition to the guest interviews that we're also going to be doing.
01:13:13 Speaker_02
because I'm just really bullish on this space. EJAS has gotten me really bullish on this space. We think that this is going to dominate crypto in 2025.
01:13:21 Speaker_02
And as we are wrapping up the year, I think that's all we can really say is 2025 is going to be the year of AI, AI, crypto.
01:13:26 Speaker_01
Huge.
01:13:28 Speaker_02
Bankless Nation, you guys know the deal. Crypto is risky. Crypto plus AI agents, probably even riskier. You can lose what you put in, but we are headed west. This is the frontier.
01:13:38 Speaker_02
It's not for everyone, but we are glad you are with us on the Bankless journey. Thanks a lot.