#867 - Vani Hari - Exposing The Food Industry’s Dangerous Lies AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Modern Wisdom

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Episode: #867 - Vani Hari - Exposing The Food Industry’s Dangerous Lies

Author: Chris Williamson
Duration: 00:59:58

Episode Shownotes

Vani Hari is an author, activist, and founder of Food Babe. Something is profoundly wrong with America’s food industry. From the scientists shaping America's understanding to the regulatory bodies meant to protect us, there are deep-seated problems in the system. The fight to restore America’s health has begun, but corruption

and troubling ingredients in our food supply are just the tip of the iceberg. Expect to learn why Vani Hari took her fight straight to the front steps of Kellogg's headquarters, why so many ingredients are approved in the U.S. but banned in Europe, which companies are the biggest culprits in adding unnecessary junk to food, why seed oils are at the centre of the debate over healthy products, the major conflicts of interest among food scientists and studies and much more... Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get up to 80% off everything sitewide at https://gym.sh/modernwisdom (use code MODERNWISDOM10) Get the Whoop 4.0 for free and get your first month for free at https://join.whoop.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period from Shopify at https://shopify.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59 #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

In episode #867 of Modern Wisdom, Chris Williamson interviews Vani Hari, founder of Food Babe, focusing on the dangers of the American food industry. Vani discusses her fight against harmful additives like artificial food dyes and high fructose corn syrup, highlighting discrepancies in safety regulations between the U.S. and Europe. She critiques the food industry's profit-driven motives that compromise consumer health and the FDA's inadequate oversight. The episode emphasizes the need for greater transparency, ingredient literacy, and a shift towards whole foods for improved public health.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (#867 - Vani Hari - Exposing The Food Industry’s Dangerous Lies) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_00
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Vanni Hari. She's an author, activist, and founder of The Food Babe. Something is profoundly wrong with America's food industry.

00:00:11 Speaker_00
From the scientists shaping America's understanding to the regulatory bodies meant to protect us, there are deep-seated problems in the system.

00:00:19 Speaker_00
The fight to restore America's health has begun, but corruption and troubling ingredients in the food supply are just the tip of the iceberg.

00:00:26 Speaker_00
Expect to learn why Vanny took her fight straight to the front steps of Kellogg's headquarters, why so many ingredients are approved in the US but banned everywhere else, which companies are the biggest culprits in adding unnecessary junk to food, why seed oils are at the center of the debate over healthy products, the major conflicts of interest among food scientists and studies, and much more.

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00:04:08 Speaker_00
What's happening with you and Kellogg's?

00:04:11 Speaker_01
Kellogg's. So two weeks ago on October 15th, I went to Kellogg's headquarters with 400,000 signatures, took them to Kellogg's front door.

00:04:27 Speaker_01
to ask them to remove artificial food dyes and BHT from their cereals that they produce here in the United States. But don't do this for countries like Canada, all of the countries in Europe, Australia, India.

00:04:44 Speaker_01
So basically using one set of ingredients here in the United States that are more toxic and harmful towards little children because artificial food dyes are linked to hyperactivity.

00:04:56 Speaker_01
They require a warning label, a cigarette type warning label in Europe when a product has artificial food dyes that says may cause adverse effects on activity and attention in children.

00:05:08 Speaker_01
They've seen that when they study these different artificial food dyes, they contain carcinogens, so they're linked to cancer.

00:05:15 Speaker_01
They cause autoimmune disorders, eczema, asthma, and also the chemical BHT, which is an endocrine-disrupting chemical that you find in the lining of cereal bags as a preservative.

00:05:31 Speaker_01
They use that here in the United States, but they don't use that in other countries. So I have been demanding that Kellogg's sell us the same safer versions of their cereals that they serve in other countries.

00:05:46 Speaker_01
And I've been doing this for a really long time. Uh, I've been doing it since for over a decade. In 2015, Kellogg's said that they were going to make these changes. They got worldwide press about making these changes.

00:06:00 Speaker_01
They got a lot of praise publicly and through the media when they made this announcement, but then they never did it.

00:06:09 Speaker_01
They said they would do it by 2018 and instead they created new cereals to hook modern children of today like baby shark and peeps and little mermaid and.

00:06:19 Speaker_01
L from the shelf and in all of these different trick or treat type cereals to get people to buy their cereals and. It's really sad because not only did they lie to us.

00:06:33 Speaker_01
they continue to sell American children an inferior, less safe version of their cereals.

00:06:40 Speaker_00
Is it true that they make those cereals in the same factories as the cereals that don't have those same dyes in? Is there any truth to that?

00:06:49 Speaker_01
At one point, I believe that Canadian cereal was being produced here in the United States and they were shipping it over the border. I think now they have a Canadian manufacturer now, a factory, but yeah, that was... They had the capacity to do it.

00:07:07 Speaker_00
So, you know, we're going to talk a lot today about some of the more nefarious activities maybe of people's favorite high street food brands and stuff like that. Why? Why do brands do this? Is it cheaper? Is it laziness?

00:07:23 Speaker_00
Is it something... New World Order trying to sterilize the population? What's your reasoning behind this? What's your justification that you think they're doing it for?

00:07:33 Speaker_01
There's a few different reasons.

00:07:34 Speaker_01
The first reason is that a petroleum coal tar base dye is cheaper to put into a product than carrot juice, watermelon juice, blueberry juice that they're using in other countries to color these cereals, okay, and other products for that matter.

00:07:53 Speaker_01
It's cheaper. The second thing is it doesn't break down as fast, right? Petroleum lasts forever. Carrot juice, you know, goes rancid. So from a preservation standpoint of how long you can keep a cereal on the shelf, It matters.

00:08:12 Speaker_01
So it's all about money and it's all about greed. And the same way they're using BHT to line the insides of the cereal bags, it's a preservation thing. And the fact that the FDA has allowed our food companies here in the United States

00:08:33 Speaker_01
to create these chemicals, to approve these chemicals for use under their own safety data, not any third-party regulatory fashion. This is happening in the food companies themselves.

00:08:47 Speaker_01
They've decided it's okay to use these chemicals, and the FDA hasn't even reviewed, for example, Red No. 40 since 1971. And they don't even know the amount that the American public is consuming at this point, which we've done some studies and data.

00:09:07 Speaker_01
And there's been a study done in Purdue University about how it's been a dramatic increase in terms of over 500% increase since food dyes were introduced to our food supply in terms of how much we're actually consuming as the American public.

00:09:27 Speaker_01
This is something that food companies continue to do because no one's holding them accountable. And this is why I had to march to Kellogg's headquarters to do this, because no one's doing it.

00:09:44 Speaker_00
How much do you lay at the feet of the food companies? How much do you lay at the feet of the FDA? And why is America so unique in? It's like this weird island food desert type thing, but it's not.

00:09:57 Speaker_00
It's like a food additive desert, but whatever the food additive oasis.

00:10:04 Speaker_01
Right, yeah, we have the worst food system in the world. And we have all of the big food companies that are American food companies making better, safer products overseas for all these other countries. And this is something that has to be addressed.

00:10:26 Speaker_01
First of all, I believe that it is a moral obligation, an ethical obligation. If you can make your product safer, then you should do that. And not doing it is anti-American, especially when it's an American company doing this.

00:10:45 Speaker_01
And the worst part about it is that these food companies know their product is causing harm because 20 years ago, when the Southampton study came out, European regulatory agencies decided that they would put the cigarette type warning label on any product that contains dyes.

00:11:07 Speaker_01
And when they did that, these food manufacturers in America didn't want that warning label. They said, oh no, we don't want to warn parents that this could cause hyperactivity. So we're going to voluntarily remove these chemicals from our products.

00:11:23 Speaker_01
And we're going to create a safer version for all of these other countries. That right there is completely sinister to find out that your product could cause this issue in children and decide not to change it across the board.

00:11:41 Speaker_01
And that policy, that unethical business practice has to stop with American companies. And that's why we have targeted Kellogg's first with our campaign and me and other amazing health leaders, doctors, activists,

00:11:59 Speaker_01
Are gonna go after the entire food industry at this point because this is something that's happening. Not only with Kellogg's It's happening at McDonald's. It's happening with PepsiCo. It's happening with General Mills. It's happening at Kraft Heinz.

00:12:14 Speaker_01
It's happening everywhere across the board. And I want to send a huge message to the food industry that they can't get away with this anymore.

00:12:25 Speaker_01
If they are already making a product that has less chemicals and is safer, they have to do it for their own American citizens.

00:12:34 Speaker_00
What's the story of the food industry over the last few decades? How would you describe it?

00:12:41 Speaker_01
We've created a toxic soup, Chris. Over the last 50 or so years, the majority of food chemicals that have been produced and put into our food supply have been invented for one sole purpose, and that's to improve the bottom line of the food industry.

00:13:02 Speaker_01
Everything from a preservative chemical to an addictive chemical that makes you eat more of that product than you should, the mouthfeel, the emulsifiers, the flavorings that trick your old factory system in your head every time you open up a package or you rip open a bag.

00:13:25 Speaker_01
Every single ingredient, I would say 99% of them, are there to make the food company's money and not improve our health.

00:13:37 Speaker_01
And so the majority of foods in the grocery store right now, I would say anything in a package or box or bag that doesn't have five or less ingredients is something that is literally harming your health because the ingredient itself, first of all,

00:13:57 Speaker_01
likely doesn't have safety data around it. There's this underlying implication that when a food chemical or anything that's been introduced to the food supply goes through a rigorous testing at the FDA. There is nobody at the FDA testing anything.

00:14:14 Speaker_01
They actually look at the data that the food companies themselves produce, and they just let it be called generally regarded as safe.

00:14:24 Speaker_01
There's no one actually holding the food companies accountable and saying, hey, we need to look at these chemicals and see the safety data and prove that these chemicals are safe before we allow them in our food system.

00:14:37 Speaker_00
Is it a hangover from previously food was just food, it was something that you ate and maybe you wrapped it in plastic? There are only so many degrees of perversion and molestation that you could do with food.

00:14:52 Speaker_00
Whereas for something like a drug, if we're going to release a drug onto the market, then we need to go through different trials and we need to do so on and so forth. But that now it seems the level of

00:15:04 Speaker_00
manipulation that's happened to food and the different additives and the different preservatives and the different carrying methods that can be included in them, and even the design of them too, is the technology is getting to the stage where it can become very, very far removed previously, but we're still working with an old framework

00:15:21 Speaker_00
which is when food was largely just food and there was maybe a couple of different amendments that could be made. This sort of, I'm going to guess, 1900s to 60s model.

00:15:30 Speaker_00
And then we start to pivot a little bit more as food technology becomes more advanced. Is that kind of what's going on, that it's just not held to the same rigor that other industries that people consume are? Because we assume, well, it's food.

00:15:42 Speaker_00
Food's just, you know, it's food.

00:15:45 Speaker_01
Well, I mean, there's a couple of things at play here. The food companies basically started to get bought up several years ago by the tobacco companies.

00:15:56 Speaker_01
And the tobacco companies started to use the same technology that they learned on how to hook Americans to cigarettes, and the world to cigarettes, and basically use that same science and technology in our brains when we would start to eat processed food.

00:16:17 Speaker_01
And so they started to use this complicated kind of laboratory experiments where they would measure our bliss point in our brain, measure our taste response, when we would eat a certain product, everything down from the type of texture the product is.

00:16:34 Speaker_01
A lot of people don't know that. processed foods are manufactured in a way for you to consume them very fast. Think about cheese balls, for example. They melt in your mouth, right?

00:16:46 Speaker_01
You just digest them so quick, and so your body doesn't even have the time to catch up with its own society for you to stop, and you end up eating half the bag, right? The same thing is with bread. If you get grocery store bread,

00:17:00 Speaker_01
a loaf of it, it's so soft and so processed that you could eat five, six, seven slices of that in the same time it would take you to eat sourdough bread that you would make in your oven at home, where you have to really chew through the crust.

00:17:18 Speaker_01
You really have to take your time to chew it and eat it. And your body and your society hormones and everything start to work. And you're like, OK, I've had enough bread. But that's not the case with processed food.

00:17:31 Speaker_01
It's literally manufactured so that you eat more than you should. And everything from the texture to the taste to the flavorings that they add and the different additives that they add. I mean, I want to talk about natural flavoring.

00:17:47 Speaker_01
This is something that seems so innocuous that it's on the label and you're like, oh, it's from nature. It's natural flavoring.

00:17:55 Speaker_01
But no, it can be thousands of different chemicals under that label that create a flavor in your brain that you remember and that you crave and you taste that and you're like, I have to eat one more.

00:18:11 Speaker_01
And without that flavoring component, the food manufacturers would really be in a lot of hurt because we would stop eating at just a little bit.

00:18:24 Speaker_00
It's kind of, I'm thinking about this from the standpoint of the food manufacturers, that what we're asking them to do is almost make foods less palatable. They need to be less enjoyable. And you think, well, who wants that?

00:18:37 Speaker_00
Who wants food to be less enjoyable? Surely the job of a food design company is to make foods that are tasty and people enjoy them and they want to have them. And sure, maybe they get them to eat more and that's, you know, capitalism or whatever.

00:18:50 Speaker_00
So is it your sense that there is a step change in how they've been able to hack our physiology, our olfactory system, our texture detection, orification as it's known.

00:19:03 Speaker_00
They've been able to get in and play now sort of outside the bounds of what is reasonable for food companies to do.

00:19:09 Speaker_00
Because assuming, I'm going to guess that you're not going to say, all foods need to taste like gravel and it should make the experience as unenjoyable as possible for everybody involved.

00:19:18 Speaker_01
Listen, real food does not taste like gravel, right? I mean, I eat a real food diet. I love everything that I have for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I think it tastes amazing. But I stay the same way.

00:19:30 Speaker_01
My health is awesome because I'm eating real food with real nutrition, and my body isn't being subjected to these food industry tricks. that have happened at a level that I can't even comprehend.

00:19:46 Speaker_01
I mean, our entire food system has been weaponized against the human body to the point now our rates of chronic disease are astronomical.

00:19:56 Speaker_01
I mean, like, literally, we are going to have a situation where we are going to break down as a human society unless we take a look at this and see what's been done and people know the truth.

00:20:08 Speaker_00
How much do you lay at the feet of ultra-processed, calorie-dense, hyper-palatable foods that are easy for people to find, consume, and eat too much of?

00:20:17 Speaker_00
And how much do you lay at the feet of the specific ingredients and endocrine-disrupting effects and so on and so forth? It seems to me...

00:20:27 Speaker_00
that most of the arguments come from either a overconsumption side, leading to higher BMIs downstream from that, lots of health problems, but then there's this sort of other area which is maybe to do with what's the constituent parts of these foods and so on and so forth.

00:20:43 Speaker_00
How do you come to think about these two areas?

00:20:46 Speaker_01
I mean, both of them are synergistic. Both of them are problematic. And you've got, on one hand, the overconsumption of food that is not nutritious. It's actually not doing anything for your mitochondria in your body. It's leading to metabolic syndrome.

00:21:03 Speaker_01
And that leads to so many different chronic diseases. What's metabolic syndrome?

00:21:09 Speaker_00
Sorry.

00:21:09 Speaker_01
Metabolic syndrome is a condition that happens in your body that basically turns on factors for diabetes and cancer and heart disease. It basically is when the organs in your body stop functioning.

00:21:25 Speaker_01
your liver, your pancreas, other parts of your digestive system actually stop functioning so that you become more insulin-sensitive, you become more prone to cancer, you become more reluctant to have heart disease.

00:21:39 Speaker_01
And so this is something that Dr. Casey Means and Cali Means talk about in their book, Good Energy, that this is something that is literally attacking the entire body when we're eating this food.

00:21:52 Speaker_01
And it's up to us to really know the truth about what this food is and if it is even food. I mean, can you even call it that at that point when it's 50, 60 different chemicals in a Subway sandwich or in a Chick-fil-A sandwich for that matter?

00:22:10 Speaker_01
It's something that we have to take a good look at in terms of how these chemicals interchange with each other. But here's why I think I've been effective at getting people's attention.

00:22:28 Speaker_01
Because I've broken down these chemicals for people to understand. And I've told them why they're there and why the food industry is using them. And they decide on their own that, hey, I'm not going to be part of this experiment anymore.

00:22:41 Speaker_01
I don't want that chemical in my body. If it is taken out in a study, whether it causes hyperactivity or if it's linked to cancer or if it has some endocrine disrupting property,

00:22:51 Speaker_01
Those are all reasons not to consume those chemicals, and I think those are strong reasons. But what that does also is it puts a note in the person's brain of like, wait a minute, I shouldn't eat that much of this food either.

00:23:04 Speaker_01
And so they don't bring it in their house as much. And so for me, my methodology has always been ingredients. You read the ingredients. If you don't recognize the ingredient, you don't understand it, you need to go find out why.

00:23:19 Speaker_01
And this is part of my book, Feeding You Lies. At the end, I take people through a three-part question that they need to sit down and every time they sit down to eat, they need to ask themselves, number one, what are the ingredients?

00:23:31 Speaker_01
Number two, are these ingredients nutritious? Number three, where are the ingredients come from? If you can't answer those three questions about what you're eating, you need to go find out.

00:23:41 Speaker_01
And when you go find out, you will learn so much about your diet and your food that you will automatically start to make better choices.

00:23:49 Speaker_01
And you don't need to be a nutritionist or a food scientist or anything to know whether those ingredients are nutritious or not.

00:23:55 Speaker_01
Because if you know what the ingredient is, and I'll give you a really good example, in breads, in a lot of processed foods, you'll see this ingredient. And nobody knows why it's there unless they were to actually go look it up and teach themselves.

00:24:07 Speaker_01
It's monodiglycerides, OK? This is a food industry manufactured product that they use to replace trans fats when the FDA banned trans fats because it was linked to 10,000 heart attacks a year and several deaths, okay?

00:24:27 Speaker_01
When they banned this chemical, partially hydrogenated oils, from our food system, the food manufacturers had to find a way to still preserve oils in products. And they came up with this monodiglycerides.

00:24:39 Speaker_01
And so it still even has trace amounts of trans fats in it. And it's a chemical they're using from a preservation standpoint. If you see that on a product that you're eating when you sit down to eat,

00:24:53 Speaker_01
You should automatically know that's not for my health, that's not for my nutrition, that's not gonna serve my body, that's there for the food industry.

00:25:02 Speaker_01
And so if you start to make decisions, hey, I'm not gonna buy products with those chemicals anymore, you're automatically gonna eliminate several thousand different products on the grocery store shelves, and it's absolutely a critical thing people have to learn.

00:25:17 Speaker_00
What are the biggest concerns you've got in terms of ingredients? You've just mentioned one there. BHT was something else. So we're talking about, I guess, packaging. What are the main culprits? I'm aware that there's probably an awful lot.

00:25:33 Speaker_00
What are the ones that are carrying most of the weight and doing most of the damage, in your opinion?

00:25:37 Speaker_01
Yeah, any kind of processed seed oil, so cotton seed oil, canola oil, corn oil, soy oil, the majority of those come from genetically engineered seeds that are designed to withstand heavy doses of glyphosate, which has now been linked to cancer in many different court cases across the United States.

00:26:00 Speaker_01
and awarded juries, I'm sorry, plaintiffs billions of dollars. Okay, so this is a closed shut case on

00:26:09 Speaker_01
our oils are being produced with this very toxic chemical, then the way the oils are actually extracted, they're extracted with hexane and different chemicals, deodorizers, and bleach agents before they get to the supermarket.

00:26:26 Speaker_01
And the FDA, unfortunately, does not monitor the residues of things like hexane that are left in a lot of these oils, not to mention cottonseed oil,

00:26:38 Speaker_01
is something that is actually produced from the textile industry this is not even regulated like a food it's a textile so it has way worse pesticides and chemicals allowed for use on cotton but they found out that they can use this byproduct in our food system and it's actually one of the what was the main ingredient

00:26:59 Speaker_01
in Crisco and trans fats for so long until I think a lot of manufacturers have started to remove cottonseed, although you see it all the time, it's everywhere. This is something that is pervasive in our food supply.

00:27:16 Speaker_01
And so when I'm looking for a product to buy on the shelf, I look for things made with olive oil. I look for things made with coconut oil. I look for things made with avocado oil. And that's about it.

00:27:28 Speaker_01
And I use grass-fed butter and ghee at home to cook with. And I eliminate all seed oil. So that's like the first thing that you'd want to do. The second ingredient is high fructose corn syrup.

00:27:41 Speaker_01
Not only is that also made from genetically engineered corn and have all those chemicals associated with the crops, but the way it's produced also disrupts your, it primes you for metabolic syndrome.

00:27:55 Speaker_01
It primes your body for insulin, insulin resistance. And so this is something you want to take out of your diet. And this is you'll find everywhere. It's in Coca-Cola. It's in soda.

00:28:06 Speaker_01
It's in the majority of things that you find on grocery store shelves, unfortunately. Then you want to look at, sorry, go ahead.

00:28:14 Speaker_00
No, no, no, no. I'm enthralled. Keep going.

00:28:17 Speaker_01
And then you want to look at all of the different artificial ingredients that are allowed in food. I'll give you a great example. Red number three was banned in cosmetics because it caused cancer. But when they were ready to ban it in food,

00:28:36 Speaker_01
The alcohol industry lobbied the FDA and said, no, you need to allow it still in food because it makes our maraschino cherries that we have in all of our popular alcoholic drinks red.

00:28:50 Speaker_01
And so we need to keep those maraschino cherries with that red number three dye. So you need to still allow it in food. So you can't use it in lipstick. But it's still allowed in food.

00:29:01 Speaker_01
And that shows you what a Wild Wild West kind of situation we have with our government agencies and how they're completely co-opted by industry.

00:29:12 Speaker_01
And one of the things that I think needs to happen immediately at the FDA is remove all industry funding from the FDA. And it should be a government funded organization. It should not have any type of industry funding coming into it.

00:29:31 Speaker_00
Talk to me about the conflict of interest in studies and food scientists and stuff like that.

00:29:37 Speaker_01
Well, one of the things that has happened recently, and I wrote about it in my book Feeding You Lies, is the food industry will use groups that look very reputable to defend their chemicals and their food green policies, right? They will hire

00:30:02 Speaker_01
Corporate, you know, different organizations, like I'll give you one great example. The the American Council of Science and Health sounds so reputable, sounds so like you. Yes, we need to listen to the American Council of Science and Health.

00:30:20 Speaker_01
But this is an organization that has taken funding. It's like the who's who of corporations. Everyone from Big Pharma, Big Chem, and Big Food. They've taken money from Kellogg's. They've taken money from Coca-Cola. They've taken money from Bayer.

00:30:39 Speaker_01
They've taken money from Syngenta, McDonald's. I mean, it is insane.

00:30:43 Speaker_01
And their main objective is to do character assassination on anyone who is speaking out about their products and then to also confuse the public into thinking that consuming these chemicals and these foods are completely safe.

00:31:01 Speaker_01
And they just released a hit piece on myself and Eva Mendez, who is. Yeah, you saw it. So a huge supporter of our campaign on Kellogg's and Dr. Will Cole. And and this is what they do.

00:31:17 Speaker_01
And back in the day when I was going up against a lot of these food giants, I was very naive. I didn't know that I would literally have paid organizations trying to take me down.

00:31:34 Speaker_01
And it was, it was, it was pretty much right after I think I got Subway to remove azodicarbonamide, a chemical that you find in yoga mats and shoe rubber.

00:31:45 Speaker_01
You know, if you turn a yoga mat sideways and you look at the, the air bubbles, it's like evenly.

00:31:51 Speaker_00
It looks like a Subway sandwich. Oh no.

00:31:55 Speaker_01
Well, it evenly disperses the air bubbles in rubber. Well, it does the same thing in bread, and so they wanted the bread to look and feel the same in every single subway. That's what fast food is, right? You want it to be the same and uniform.

00:32:06 Speaker_01
And so this was a chemical they were not using in other countries. If you got caught using it in Singapore, you got fined $450,000. And I petitioned Subway to remove this chemical because I didn't think eating that chemical was eating fresh.

00:32:23 Speaker_01
And Michelle Obama at the time had partnered with Subway in her let's move campaign. And I was like, wait a minute, does she not know the truth about Subway that there's close to 50 ingredients in a, in the, in the piece of bread at Subway?

00:32:35 Speaker_01
Like she needs to know. And so I started this petition and it went so viral that the company by the end of the week made the decision to remove the chemical.

00:32:45 Speaker_01
And not only that, but every single bread manufacturer in America virtually removed the chemical too. So we shut down the azodicarbonamide chemical factory. Okay.

00:32:56 Speaker_01
So you can only imagine how much money was involved with reformulation, removing that chemical, changing all the ingredient lists, all the packaging, all of the things that the food industry had to do at that point.

00:33:07 Speaker_00
You're a big spanner in the works of a lot of the operations.

00:33:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, they were not they were not happy. And so as a result, I started to be targeted.

00:33:18 Speaker_01
by these organizations, these front groups and paid for in quote unquote, independent experts that started to show up in every single article that was detailing my work.

00:33:31 Speaker_01
On one hand, it would say, you know, Bonnie has gotten these chemicals out with her food babe army and all of these concerned citizens. And on the other hand, she doesn't know what she's talking about. She's pseudoscientific. She's got no education.

00:33:44 Speaker_01
she she has no right to talk about any of these chemicals and She is dumb as a doornail. She's a food bimbo she gets That was the headline of one of the biggest lobbyists in against me and for the food industry.

00:34:06 Speaker_01
And he's quote, unquote, his nickname is Dr. Evil because he does that. I mean, he was against mothers for drunk drivers. I mean, he's just an evil man. But that was a headline in the I think it was The Washington Post. food bimbo.

00:34:26 Speaker_01
Another one is she gets on all these programs because she's easier to look at.

00:34:30 Speaker_01
That was written by a professor in McGill University in Canada who was getting paid by Monsanto, Bayer to attack me, which I found out through Freedom of Information Request Acts that I submitted to his university.

00:34:47 Speaker_01
Uh, these are the conversations that we're having to destroy my character at the time. And because I was so unaware of what was going to go down, taking on the industry, I became very scared because they went hardcore.

00:35:05 Speaker_01
I mean, death threats, rape threats, people coming by my house, every single talk I gave that was a public talk had to have security there because people were trying to shut down the conversation.

00:35:20 Speaker_00
Presumably that's not operators from Kellogg's or Monsanto sending you that directly. Presumably that's people who are downstream from the news articles and that have read the criticisms of you and stuff like that.

00:35:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, so it was being funded by the chemical and food industry. However, they were using these front groups that you can't tell what the industry funding's happening behind the scenes because they hide it.

00:35:49 Speaker_01
And we weren't able to discover a lot of this until we were able to see it through FOIA documentation that this was actually happening. And then on top of that, there was, and this just happened three weeks ago, Lighthouse reports

00:36:04 Speaker_01
released a expose about a private social network that was being funded and directed by the communications director at Monsanto to hold information about critics to the chemical and food industries.

00:36:24 Speaker_01
personal data, personal information, my address, my parents' phone numbers, my parents' names, my spouse's name on my profile, a three-page dossier, and doxing information on

00:36:40 Speaker_01
given to people of the chemical industry and the entire chemical industry to use this information against me anytime that my name would come up. And this was just found out three weeks ago. And it's an incredible investigation.

00:36:58 Speaker_01
I'm still actually comprehending it all, that this even was allowed to exist. But the worst part of it all was that the government was funding this through a program called USAID.

00:37:11 Speaker_01
And so the government and the chemical corporations were working hand-in-hand against activists like myself.

00:37:19 Speaker_01
And other people were in there too, notable people like Michael Pollan, Vandana Shiva, other activists who have spoken out about the food companies.

00:37:28 Speaker_00
So suffice it to say, they're not your number one fan, probably, at the moment.

00:37:34 Speaker_01
You know, the New York Times coined me the public enemy number one of the food industry, and I take that badge with a lot of pride because, honestly, it's something that

00:37:53 Speaker_01
I, I've had to, I've had to grapple with becoming an activist because it's been very hard on me personally in terms of being able to withstand these attacks, keep going and keep sharing this information and not letting it distract me.

00:38:09 Speaker_01
And for a while, I would say about 10 years ago, it was very distracting to the point where I almost stopped and it wasn't until I really

00:38:19 Speaker_01
took a moment and went inside and prayed and decided that what I was doing was bigger than myself, that what I was doing was not about Bonnie the vessel, me as a person. This was for the health of

00:38:36 Speaker_01
the world and for the right for people to know the truth about what's happened to the food industry. And I dug deep into the power and the passion that I have because I remember the little girl

00:38:51 Speaker_01
who I was, so sick, on nine prescription drugs, hitting rock bottom, and wanting to change with my health. And I didn't know where to start, and I didn't know what to do.

00:39:03 Speaker_01
And thank goodness I found out the truth about the food industry, and removed the processed foods from my diet, and went to real food, and now realize a level of health that I never thought was possible.

00:39:14 Speaker_01
I don't think I would have been here today, alive, had I continued the lifestyle that I was on.

00:39:20 Speaker_01
And there's so many people out there that are like me and they continue to walk around completely weaponized by these food chemicals and these different ingredients that are in their body that are wreaking havoc on them.

00:39:39 Speaker_01
And they are very trusting of the food industry. You know, when my parents came here to the United States in the 1960s, They didn't know any of this information. No one knew this information that this was being done to our food supply.

00:39:51 Speaker_01
They were like, wow, you can get a hamburger at McDonald's for a dollar. This is fantastic. I can feed my kids. This is amazing. Very fast. I'm busy working. I'm trying to make a name for myself.

00:40:02 Speaker_01
My parents were both teachers, and so they were always working. And it was like, they just wanted to feed their kids like real, you know, just any kind of food. And it wasn't they didn't know it was so fake.

00:40:17 Speaker_01
And now this information because of the internet and because of social media, I feel like we have a really unique

00:40:25 Speaker_01
point in time right now where we can wake up the world and something that is so fabulous that is happening in the political landscape that people are listening and now not only the Democrats, who it was largely a Democrat liberal issue to talk about the environment and the health and these chemicals,

00:40:47 Speaker_01
The other side is now talking about it, too. And I can't think of anything better for this country than for everyone to know the truth about the food industry.

00:40:58 Speaker_01
And it has been the most exciting time of my career in the last two months because of this happening. I mean, I literally, when I saw on national news political candidates talking about chemicals in the way that they were, my jaw was just wide open.

00:41:20 Speaker_01
I just couldn't even believe it. And not only has this kind of woken up the world, but it's now a time where I really think that we might have an opportunity because of this widespread awareness to enact real change.

00:41:42 Speaker_00
You mentioned before you had a run in with Chick-fil-A. I quite like Chick-fil-A. Can you just explain for some of the people listening, what are your lowest ranked, most concerning American food establishments?

00:42:01 Speaker_00
And then what are some options that people can go to that you think are a little bit better?

00:42:06 Speaker_01
So let me just get this straight. You like Chick-fil-A?

00:42:09 Speaker_00
I love the taste of Chick-fil-A. It tastes good.

00:42:11 Speaker_01
Well, everyone loves the taste of Chick-fil-A. My mouth still waters when you say the words Chick-fil-A.

00:42:17 Speaker_00
So you like Chick-fil-A?

00:42:19 Speaker_01
Oh, it's fantastic. Are you kidding me? And they've engineered it that way. The second ingredient in a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich is monosodium glutamate.

00:42:28 Speaker_01
Monosodium glutamate, MSG, is added to Chick-fil-A so that you remember the flavor, your mouth starts watering, you want to have that sandwich, you love it, right?

00:42:41 Speaker_01
And MSG is one of those additives that, when they're studying obesity-related diseases, they give to rats to make them fat. so that they eat more than they should. And they crave the flavor, and they keep eating and eating and eating.

00:42:59 Speaker_01
And so for me, when I found out that was the second ingredient at Chick-fil-A, I lost my, you know, I was mad. I was really mad. And I was so mad that I wrote an article called Chemical Filet or Chick-fil-A, because it had close to 100 ingredients.

00:43:15 Speaker_01
I mean, that's just one of the problematic ingredients in Chick-fil-A, but several others. And, and it went so viral that the company reached out to me and invited me to their headquarters.

00:43:30 Speaker_01
And when they invited me to their headquarters, I had to take off from my regular day job. I was not, when I was, when I initially was starting my blog, Food Babe, I was doing it just for my own passion.

00:43:44 Speaker_01
So it wasn't, it wasn't to make money or do anything like that. It was, you know, I was, I was a banker, you know, I was a consultant.

00:43:51 Speaker_01
That was my day job and this is what I was passionate about and what I would write about in the evening and on the weekends.

00:43:57 Speaker_01
And so when my article went viral and they invited me to headquarters to consult and I had to take off work, it was that moment that I was like, wait a minute, I'm consulting all these big financial institutions. This doesn't really mean much to me.

00:44:12 Speaker_01
But consulting with Chick-fil-A and changing their ingredients, like that's real change. And like, wow, I could really change the food industry.

00:44:21 Speaker_01
And that's when after that meeting and the subsequent changes that Chick-fil-A made as a result of that meeting convinced me that I should quit my job to do this full time.

00:44:33 Speaker_00
Okay, so who else is on the hit list? I've seen floating around a McDonald's comparison between fries in the UK and Europe and in America. You've already mentioned Subway.

00:44:48 Speaker_00
Who else is on the hit list and what are you worried about that they've got in their foods?

00:44:52 Speaker_01
So yeah, let's just talk about McDonald's. You've got McDonald's in the UK, three ingredients, and then salt is optional. Very simple. Here in the United States, it's over 14. And you've got the chemical called dimethylpolysiloxane.

00:45:08 Speaker_01
It's an ingredient that can be preserved with formaldehyde, according to the FDA, although there's no safety data on this chemical. It's the main ingredient in Silly Putty. And when

00:45:21 Speaker_01
When it's combined with TBHQ, which is another crazy chemical that's a preservative that you'll find in Reese's peanut butter cups here in the United States, but not in Japan. this TBHQ ingredient turns on your immune response.

00:45:38 Speaker_01
So you become more allergenic to your surroundings and in your environment. And if you're already allergic to something, it triggers that.

00:45:46 Speaker_00
Are they preservatives? What's the justification for them being in the food? Presumably they're not in there for no reason.

00:45:54 Speaker_01
So the TBHQ is a preservative for the oil. And dimethylpolysiloxane is a anti-foaming agent so that they don't have to change the oil as often at fast food places.

00:46:08 Speaker_01
And dimethylpolysiloxane, by the way, is in a lot of fast food French fries, not just McDonald's. And this is something that you will also find, which When I did drink soda, I always thought a fountain soda always tasted better.

00:46:25 Speaker_01
I don't know why, but you will find this in a fountain diet Coke, where you will not find it on the label of a diet Coke that you buy in a bottle. But when it's coming out of a fountain, they add dimethylpolysiloxane to diet Coke.

00:46:44 Speaker_00
Who's better? Who, who, where can I eat that you're not going to shout at me for going to?

00:46:51 Speaker_01
Well, first of all, I just want you to stop eating at Chick-fil-A.

00:46:55 Speaker_00
Well, look, give me give me another option. Where else am I going to go?

00:46:59 Speaker_01
Where do you live?

00:47:00 Speaker_00
Austin, Texas.

00:47:01 Speaker_01
Okay. Gosh, you have so many good places to eat. Well, you can go to True Food Kitchen. You can go to Chipotle. Chipotle is a great option. They removed all GMOs as a result of one of my campaigns as well.

00:47:16 Speaker_01
And they have probably the least amount of chemicals in their food in terms of a fast food. Sweetgreen, do you have Sweetgreen there? Yeah, they removed all seed oils. That's a great option for a fast food.

00:47:31 Speaker_00
What about Flour Child?

00:47:34 Speaker_01
Love Flour Child. A lot of their ingredients are organic. They've also removed most seed oils. I would also say, make your own food, Chris. Come on.

00:47:45 Speaker_00
No, no, no. Look, this is a point I really wanted to get into, which I think is... for the food purists out there. And, you know, Kali's been on the show. He's fantastic. I'm really interested in the work that you're doing at the moment.

00:47:59 Speaker_00
I've been at dinner with RFK a bunch of times. It's great to hear this. Mostly whole real foods from a variety of sources as unmolested as possible. I get it.

00:48:08 Speaker_00
But I think that the biggest barrier to entry to a lot of people, a lot of people that listen to the show, people like me, it's just convenience. We're busy. We need to be able to balance the things that we want to do in life.

00:48:21 Speaker_00
And I know that if you eat sufficiently badly, talking about, well, what I'm doing is I'm saving myself time because I'm so busy. It's like, you're going to lose time if you get sick in future.

00:48:32 Speaker_00
So I understand that it's a value trade, but I think that we kind of need to meet people where they're at. And where I'm at is someone who a lot of the time doesn't have all that much time to actually get into the nuts and bolts of cooking stuff.

00:48:46 Speaker_00
You know, there's, I guess, two elements there. First off, how can someone shop better in the supermarket? And secondly, what are the labels? You've mentioned that there's some perverse incentives, regulatory bodies and agencies and stuff.

00:49:05 Speaker_00
What, USDA, is USDA any good? I've heard that organic doesn't actually mean all that good, but maybe it does. I've heard that non-GMO is maybe not all it's cracked up to be.

00:49:14 Speaker_00
What are the things that people should be looking for, beyond not too many ingredients in the food, obviously? How can people shop more effectively and what should they be looking for on packaging?

00:49:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, so let me just describe to you my favorite fast food, first of all. Whenever I am Strapped for time, this is my favorite fast food, a smoothie.

00:49:35 Speaker_01
And this is one of the reasons why I started my company, Truvani, where I created the protein powder with the least amount of unnecessary chemicals as possible with all real food.

00:49:44 Speaker_01
And, you know, like our vanilla has five real ingredients, all that you would recognize. And so I start off with that, but then I add fresh greens, whatever I have growing in my yard. And if you don't have a garden, no big deal.

00:49:57 Speaker_01
Just buy greens from the store, celery, cucumber, lemon, ginger. And then I add fruit and sometimes avocado for a little bit of fat or some hemp seeds. And that's it. And that shake is so delicious and so nutritious. It's got all of my vegetables.

00:50:13 Speaker_01
It's got the protein it's got.

00:50:15 Speaker_01
Fruit it's got everything all the fiber that I need in there because everything's intact it's in a smoothie and I consume that it takes me less than 10 minutes to make and And it's all real food ingredients and it's fast It's much faster than going through the drive-thru and it's much better on your body So that's my hack for fast food and I almost have that every single day for lunch because I'm working through lunch like two kids Things are busy, right?

00:50:41 Speaker_01
the second thing is When you're shopping at the grocery store, choose the perimeter. All the fruits and vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, whole grains like quinoa, oats, brown rice, or even regular rice is fine.

00:50:59 Speaker_01
Just choose organic because organic has less arsenic. Pasture-raised eggs, pasture-raised or grass-fed cheese. I do a lot of goat cheese that I love because goat cheese is just easier to digest. I love any kind of yogurts that are grass-fed.

00:51:21 Speaker_01
I love a coconut yogurt. If you're vegan, that's called Coco June. Great and so delicious. They have an unsweetened vanilla version. That's fantastic. I eat a lot of chia seeds, different nuts, and then, you know, meats.

00:51:35 Speaker_01
Make sure they're grass-fed, pasture-raised. You can order any kind of sustainable meat now on the internet and have it shipped to your door frozen and have it ready, stocked, to go. And all you have to do is remember to defrost it, really.

00:51:51 Speaker_01
You can defrost things fast, too, but remember to defrost things the night before. Just plan out your meals.

00:51:58 Speaker_01
So that you're not stuck in that situation of oh gosh i'm so hungry the only thing that i can eat right now is this fast food because i don't want to think about what to eat and how to prepare and do whatever and you just need to come up with five or six meals that you can repeat at home.

00:52:14 Speaker_01
that your family loves. And this is one of the reasons why I've written two cookbooks, Food Babe Kitchen and Food Babe Family, with things that the whole family can sit down and eat.

00:52:23 Speaker_01
You're not making different things for each person and being a short order cook. You're eating one meal as a family. Everybody likes it. It's nutritious. It's real food. And it's fast. I don't like spending, you know, all day in the kitchen.

00:52:38 Speaker_01
And I want things to be 30 minutes or less. And so a lot of my recipes are that way. So I would highly recommend that, number one, you start cooking at home. You pick the ingredients yourself. You know what you're eating.

00:52:50 Speaker_01
That's going to be the best solution to the situation that we're in in terms of our food system. And that's the way I've decided to be revolutionary in my own life.

00:53:01 Speaker_01
and to live this way is to be, you know, it's very unconventional to live a real food lifestyle because every time you go out of your house, you're being inundated with these processed foods.

00:53:11 Speaker_01
Everything from the checkout at the grocery store, the fast food convenience places, all the places in the airport, all the places at any kind of event, whether it's a sporting event or a show or anything else, it's always pure crap.

00:53:25 Speaker_01
You have to make a revolutionary act in your own life to say, you know what? I'm not going to be part of that system anymore. I'm going to bring my own food to these places. I'm going to take my own plate food on the airplane.

00:53:37 Speaker_01
I'm going to take my own food into the show because they don't have anything worth eating.

00:53:44 Speaker_00
How do you advise people to deal with what I imagine will be an increasing problem as your platform grows? And maybe people are feeling this today, which is sort of health anxiety.

00:53:56 Speaker_00
You know, if they're permanently very vigilant, on the lookout, maybe it's got monophosphoric whatever the fuck in it. How do you advise? Because this is going to be a slow transition for a lot of people.

00:54:12 Speaker_00
And that day, the clouds parted, and I listened to Vani talk, and she said to me that, and I never ate processed foods again. No, you're going to be at a baseball game and be starving hungry.

00:54:23 Speaker_00
You're going to be on a road trip, and you're going to end up doing this stuff. You're going to be at someone's party, and you don't get to choose. You're taking us out for dinner, and I'm going to bring my own thermos with hot food from home.

00:54:33 Speaker_00
That's not going to happen. So, how do you advise people to, you know, take on board what you're saying with the right amount of concern that they probably need to have whilst not going, right, my fucking life's over, I might as well die now.

00:54:49 Speaker_01
Right. Well, first of all, you just need to stop making excuses, because honestly, in order to live a healthy life in the system that we have, we have to be, we have to have those situations.

00:55:01 Speaker_01
You might bring your own food to a party, you know, your own dish that you eat, right, because you know everything else is crap. But you're contributing to the party, you're still there, you're having a good time.

00:55:11 Speaker_01
Like, you may have to do those situations, I'm just going to have to say, because Depending upon the lifestyle that you live, if you're in those situations a lot, that can really take a toll on your body, right?

00:55:24 Speaker_01
So if you are in control of your food, I would say 80% of the time, you are going to be in a good shape. And then so that allows you that other 20% to like, be in those situations where you're caught with your, your pants down, right?

00:55:40 Speaker_01
And you don't have some snack available or some food available and you need to eat something. And I've been in those situations where like literally there's nothing to eat that I would choose normally. And sometimes I just decide to fast, right?

00:55:53 Speaker_01
I mean, hey, I can wait till the, till I get to where I'm going and get something better. But Majority of times you can make better choices. There's always a banana. There's always an apple.

00:56:02 Speaker_01
There's always some plain almonds available at the airport, right? There's always an option for one ingredient food. And so that's what I tell people to do.

00:56:12 Speaker_01
And again, if you're in these circumstances a lot, then you need to really make a choice whether you want to stop. to do this planning more effectively.

00:56:21 Speaker_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think you remember when intermittent fasting became a really big thing in the bodybuilding world. There's another version called carb night.

00:56:30 Speaker_00
Carb backloading was a version of this where you would basically macro fasting throughout the day and then you would have your carbs in an evening time.

00:56:36 Speaker_00
What most people are doing is they're setting very easy to follow rules that restrict them in simple ways, bright lines in the ground. No decision needs to be made. I get the sense that the

00:56:48 Speaker_00
recent transition to specifically diets like carnivore and then most recently the hipster trendy version meat and fruit, which is what I'm doing currently. I think that that is kind of the equivalent of the elimination

00:57:04 Speaker_00
diet thing, which is bright lines in the ground, but instead of aiming to get you into a calorie deficit, what it's aiming to do is restrict the vectors of potential infection from foods that have been highly processed.

00:57:21 Speaker_00
If you go, look, if I just eat six things, I can just sort my health out for a while. So I'm detoxing from a variety of different problems at the moment, autoimmune. America does not like foreigners.

00:57:36 Speaker_00
Shock, horror, no matter what people on the right may criticize Democrats, definitely this environment is not very conducive to immigrants coming in because it tries to kill you through the food and through the building standards and through the climate and through the insects and through everything else.

00:57:53 Speaker_00
My point being, I would not be surprised if we see more people taking up these more extreme quasi-elimination style diets, very restrictive style diets in terms of what you're eating.

00:58:05 Speaker_00
Not from the, bro, I'm going to get jacked and look at how lean I am perspective, but more so from a, well, if I only have a very small number of things in my diet, I'm hopefully going to be able to eliminate some of the stuff that was maybe messing with my health.

00:58:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think the reason why some elimination diets work is because you will remove so many foods from your diet. And so it ends up working in terms of losing weight or whatever.

00:58:30 Speaker_01
But then when you add those foods back, that's when you gain the weight back. And you end up in this kind of yo-yo cycle.

00:58:36 Speaker_01
And the only thing they've found, researchers have found, that actually work full-time and long-term is removing processed foods altogether. If you eat real food and you

00:58:48 Speaker_01
let's say less than 10% of its processed, that is the diet that literally withstands all of the other diet literature out there as far as what actually works long term and keeps you off of that yo-yo dieting strain. And I've seen that in my own body.

00:59:04 Speaker_01
having two children where I was a little concerned. I was like, wow, I've gained 40 pounds having this child. Am I going to be able to lose this? Am I going to be one of those people that just can't lose it?

00:59:15 Speaker_01
And it naturally left my body because my diet didn't change. I'm still eating real food. I'm trying to eat as real as possible because I'm now nourishing my baby through breast milk. It just went off naturally. I didn't have to diet.

00:59:32 Speaker_01
I didn't have to go on some workout program. I didn't have to do anything extreme. It's because I was eating real food this entire time. And it's why I've been able to maintain my weight now for 20 years and not have to do anything extreme.

00:59:46 Speaker_01
And so my plea to all of the people out there that are struggling with weight is go to real food because real food will send the signals to your brain for you to stop eating. It will send the signals to your body to be healthy.

01:00:06 Speaker_01
You will get off your prescription drugs. You will start to realize a level of health that you never thought was possible. And even more than all of that, those aesthetic reasons and internal health reasons, I think there's a bigger thing at play.

01:00:21 Speaker_01
I don't think people's brains can function at the highest level that it needs to function until you get real nutrition and real food and you will not find out who you are meant to be in this world and give back to the world in the way that you're supposed to until you get your body completely clean of all of these chemicals.

01:00:45 Speaker_00
Fanny Hari, ladies and gentlemen. Fanny, I am watching with a combination of fascination and trepidation for the stuff that you're doing and the wars that you insist on getting yourself into.

01:00:57 Speaker_00
Where should people go if they want to keep up to date with the stuff that you're getting up to?

01:01:00 Speaker_01
Just come on over to foodbabe.com. I'm the foodbabe on all social media. And thank you for having me, Chris.

01:01:09 Speaker_00
Heck yeah. I appreciate you. Thank you.