#778: Q&A with Tim — How to Live with Urgency, Find Joy, and Fight Complacency AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast The Tim Ferriss Show

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (#778: Q&A with Tim — How to Live with Urgency, Find Joy, and Fight Complacency ) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Go to PodExtra AI's podcast page (The Tim Ferriss Show) to view the AI-processed content of all episodes of this podcast.

View full AI transcripts and summaries of all podcast episodes on the blog: The Tim Ferriss Show

Episode: #778: Q&A with Tim — How to Live with Urgency, Find Joy, and Fight Complacency

Author: Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig
Duration: 01:21:53

Episode Shownotes

I answer questions on how I’ve changed my mind around parenthood, what’s next for me and how I am thinking about next steps, how I find joy, how to live with urgency, my advice for career reinvention in the age of AI, avoiding complacency, and much, much more.

Sponsors:Ramp easy-to-use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and more: https://Ramp.com/Tim (Get $250 when you join Ramp)Helix Sleep premium mattresses: https://HelixSleep.com/Tim (25% off all mattress orders, plus two free pillows)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://DrinkAG1.com/Tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Summary

In episode #778 of "The Tim Ferriss Show," Tim explores listener questions regarding parenthood, career reinvention, and personal fulfillment. He discusses embracing adaptability and challenges in parenting, reflecting on the evolving nature of joy through relationships and creative pursuits. Tim emphasizes the importance of questioning and self-reflection in combating complacency, while also addressing the role of grief and traditional mourning practices in understanding life. He shares insights on health strategies for longevity, including the significance of subtracting harmful choices. Ultimately, Tim encourages listeners to navigate uncertainty with patience and flexible career paths in the face of rapid technological change.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (#778: Q&A with Tim — How to Live with Urgency, Find Joy, and Fight Complacency ) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_07
Hello boys and girls, ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss.

00:00:03 Speaker_07
Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to sit down with world-class performers of all different types to tease out their habits, routines, favorite books, and so on that you can apply to your own lives.

00:00:15 Speaker_07
This time around, the format is going to be a bit different by request. I am the guest, in the sense that I took questions. It was an ask-me-anything of sorts from people who supported my fan-supported model way back in 2019, believe it or not.

00:00:31 Speaker_07
That was an ad-free experiment. Ended up returning to ads by request. That's a whole long story. If you want to read about how that went down, you can go to tim.blog.com slash podcast experiment.

00:00:41 Speaker_07
But the point is, we did a Zoom call and they asked me anything they want to ask. And we covered a lot of ground.

00:00:49 Speaker_07
I answer questions about how I've changed my mind around parenthood, what's next for me and how I'm thinking about next steps, how I find joy or attempt to find joy, how to live with urgency, my advice for career reinvention or thinking about careers in the age of AI and all of the unpredictability that entails, avoiding complacency,

00:01:10 Speaker_07
ruts, and so much more. Which is not to say I have all the answers, but certainly I explore a lot of my thinking in this, and I had a blast. So I hope you enjoy it as much as I did, and we're going to get right to it.

00:01:22 Speaker_07
But before that, just a few words from the kind people who make this podcast possible. The following quote is from one of the most legendary entrepreneurs and investors in Silicon Valley, and here it goes.

00:01:36 Speaker_07
This team executes at a level you rarely see even among the best technology companies, end quote. That is from Peter Thiel about today's sponsor, Ramp. I've been hearing about these guys everywhere, and there are good reasons for it.

00:01:49 Speaker_07
Ramp is corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. In fact, they're already doing that across the board.

00:01:58 Speaker_07
Ramp has already saved more than 25,000 customers, including other podcast sponsors like Shopify and 8sleep, more than 10 million hours and more than $1 billion through better financial management of their corporate spending.

00:02:11 Speaker_07
With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting, allowing you to close your books eight times faster on average.

00:02:21 Speaker_07
Your employees will no longer spend hours upon hours submitting expense reports. I mean, within companies, fast-growing startups, or otherwise, a lot of employees spend half their time, it seems, trying to get all this stuff together. No more.

00:02:33 Speaker_07
RAMP saves you time and money. You can get started, issue virtual and physical cards, and start making payments in less than 15 minutes, whether you have five employees or 5,000 employees. They've streamlined everything.

00:02:46 Speaker_07
And businesses that use RAMP save an average of 5% in the first year. And now you can get $250 when you join RAMP. Just go to ramp.com slash tim. All spelled out, that's ramp.com slash tim. R-A-M-P dot com slash tim.

00:03:03 Speaker_07
Cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. As many of you know, for the last few years, I've been sleeping on a Midnight Luxe mattress from today's sponsor, Helix Sleep.

00:03:14 Speaker_07
I also have one in the guest bedroom downstairs and feedback from friends has always been fantastic. Kind of over the top, to be honest. I mean, they frequently say it's the best night of sleep they've had in ages. What kind of mattress is it?

00:03:26 Speaker_07
What do you do? What's the magic juju? It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever.

00:03:31 Speaker_07
I also recently had a chance to test the Helix Sunset Elite in a new guest bedroom, which I sometimes sleep in, and I picked it for its very soft but supportive feel to help with some lower back pain that I've had.

00:03:43 Speaker_07
The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional comfort while putting the right support in the right spots. It is made with five tailored foam layers, including a base layer with full perimeter zoned lumbar support,

00:03:54 Speaker_07
right where I need it, and middle layers with premium foam and microcoils that create a soft contouring feel, which also means if I feel like I want to sleep on my side, I can do that without worrying about other aches and pains I might create.

00:04:05 Speaker_07
And with a luxurious pillow top for pressure relief, I look forward to nestling into that bed every night that I use it.

00:04:12 Speaker_07
The best part, of course, is that it helps me wake up feeling fully rested with a back that feels supple instead of stiff, and that is the name of the game for me these days.

00:04:21 Speaker_07
Helix offers a 100-night sleep trial, fast free shipping, and a 15-year warranty. So check it all out. Get 25% off on all mattress orders plus two free pillows by going to helixsleep.com slash tim.

00:04:36 Speaker_07
That's helixsleep.com slash tim for 25% off on all mattress orders plus two free pillows.

00:04:44 Speaker_04
Optimal minimum.

00:04:46 Speaker_07
At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question?

00:04:53 Speaker_00
Now is the appropriate time. What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism living this year over a metal endoskeleton.

00:05:02 Speaker_03
Lee, Tim, Ferris, Joe.

00:05:09 Speaker_07
Cool, this is a cozy bunch. Not too big, not too small. Scott, I like your taste in the headsets, you know?

00:05:15 Speaker_03
Thanks.

00:05:17 Speaker_07
You got Lee popping in. All right, so I think the most interesting way to do this is just to kind of go around and have a conversation. And people can ask their questions. It could be the question that you submitted.

00:05:29 Speaker_07
Frankly, to keep it interesting for me, it could be something else too, but up to you. Let's see. Sarah, would you like to go first?

00:05:37 Speaker_01
Yeah. So I haven't seen you in 30 years, which you may or may not remember. Yeah.

00:05:43 Speaker_07
I was going to say, I know that name and I know that face. Yeah.

00:05:46 Speaker_01
Yeah. Well, it's Sarah Carley, probably to you. Yeah.

00:05:49 Speaker_07
It's been a minute. Nice to see you.

00:05:50 Speaker_01
It's been a long time. So it's good to see you. Well, I had a question about something in the past two years. That's been a significant change of mind for you. Place where you've really made a big, big pivot in something you thought you knew.

00:06:07 Speaker_07
I'd say the biggest pivot that comes to mind is related to parenting, fatherhood. Just never felt like I had any evidence to support that I would be a good dad for a host of reasons.

00:06:19 Speaker_07
And felt like since that, as far as I know, is a forever decision, or at least decision until you pass away, hopefully predating your kids, that I just did not feel comfortable thinking about pulling the trigger on something that significant.

00:06:36 Speaker_07
Also, because I do think on some level becoming a parent is fundamentally self-interested. I don't want to call it selfish, but you are choosing to have kids, right?

00:06:47 Speaker_07
So you want to make sure you bring them into the most supportive circumstances possible for them to flourish.

00:06:54 Speaker_07
And it's, I would say in the last handful of years, as more and more of my friends have had kids, and then second kids, in some cases third kids, and I've spent time with a lot of those kids that I've heard over and over again from friends, you would be a great dad.

00:07:08 Speaker_07
You gotta get on that train, you gotta do it. So I would say that's probably the most material pivot.

00:07:16 Speaker_07
And I can't say with 100% confidence I'm gonna be the world's greatest dad, but I suppose the question that I ask myself but never really applied to this, but I do apply to a lot of other places is, with question X or challenge Y, has anyone less capable or less intelligent or less resourced ever figured this out and done a pretty good job?

00:07:39 Speaker_07
And of course the answer is yes with parenting. I just, for whatever reason, never made the cognitive hop to apply that same question that I put so many other places to parenting. So I would say that's the biggest one that comes to mind.

00:07:55 Speaker_07
Seems like the next great chapter and adventure. So we'll see where that goes. I have some prereqs to figure out first. Girlfriend, partner, wife, mother of the children kind of situation.

00:08:05 Speaker_07
I guess technically I don't need to travel that path, but that's where I'm focused at the moment. Thanks for the question. Nice to see you after three decades. All right, we can go in any particular order.

00:08:16 Speaker_07
So I'm just following some line of sorts on my screen. Scott, would you like to go next? Not to favor all the people with headsets. Oh no, we have multiple headsets down here. Andrew as well.

00:08:27 Speaker_03
Yeah. So I guess my question kind of dovetails with Sarah's a little bit. It seems like you're kind of thinking about maybe next steps for you and your career. You're, you know, you've hit 10 years on the podcast.

00:08:38 Speaker_03
It sounds like you're maybe exploring some new stuff with writing a book and doing art.

00:08:42 Speaker_03
And I'm just curious, you know, what types of new things are you exploring and how are you maybe thinking about the next say 10 years of your life and kind of what's next?

00:08:53 Speaker_07
Yeah, that's a big one. So start with all the big, start with the big questions so we can get down to like, what's your new favorite pair of socks later? All right, so I would say, I'll back into that from the end of the question first.

00:09:04 Speaker_07
So next 10 years, who knows for me. I've never really had super long-term goals that are well planned out in part because I feel like looking at it from the professional perspective at least,

00:09:21 Speaker_07
If you can hit your plan reliably point by point, it's probably too far within your sphere of comfort, if that makes sense.

00:09:29 Speaker_07
And there are so many unpredictable elements that it's probably, I don't want to say an exercise in futility, because I do think it's important to have a plan, even if that plan isn't something you can

00:09:43 Speaker_07
Execute on perfectly but my plan time horizon tends to be i would say.

00:09:48 Speaker_07
With most things in the six to twelve month range and the assumption is there that if i do really well at something over that period of time it will open doors that i could not have predicted.

00:10:03 Speaker_07
Or four seen ahead of time that makes any sense if you think about the first book thing about the podcast i could not in. any universe I can imagine have foreseen what those would bring to the door two, three years later.

00:10:20 Speaker_07
I just could not have even imagined. Certainly at least half of the things that would have appeared. So I tend to think of it in those terms, but some of the, let's just say, side quests and

00:10:37 Speaker_07
alleyways that I'm exploring mostly relate to trying to break outside of what I've done before. And there are a few reasons for that.

00:10:46 Speaker_07
So one is, I recognize in myself that it's very easy to not become complacent, but to become comfortable with repeating certain recipes that you have in your life, whatever those recipes are. And they typically relate to a domain you know pretty well.

00:11:01 Speaker_07
So in my case, let's just say that's publishing, that's podcasting on some level, that's early stage investing. And while I enjoy all of those things or facets of each of those things, I have felt a huge benefit in identity diversification over time.

00:11:19 Speaker_07
Each time you try something that's not really bound within your current identity, it buys you permission to do that over and over again and to open up

00:11:30 Speaker_07
a whole new realm of possibilities that you might not have considered if, for instance, I viewed myself as an author. I could have constrained myself further to being a business author.

00:11:41 Speaker_07
And that was part of the reason I chose to, once the success of the 4-Hour Workweek gave me a certain grace period within which I could try anything, because publishers would be like, well, we missed the first one, but let's maybe get the second one.

00:11:56 Speaker_07
Or

00:11:57 Speaker_07
We want to keep it for the long term so we can do the three hour work week in the two hour work week so fine if it makes him happy to do this stupid thing called for our body and that's not what the publisher said but they were more excited for me to stay in my lane.

00:12:10 Speaker_07
The four hour body then prove to me i could experiment outside of. The lines that would limit me to say the business category and then that furthermore let me to experiment with a lot of other things.

00:12:25 Speaker_07
So that is a long preamble to say that the areas that I'm looking at really closely right now are, for instance, games, which is totally out of left field, right? It wouldn't fit neatly in my Wikipedia page. I'll put it that way.

00:12:40 Speaker_07
And cock punch and the whole NFT craziness was an example of also doing something very far afield. And I'll show you another one, actually, because I couldn't show this to you otherwise. So hold on a second. I'll show you.

00:12:54 Speaker_07
This, for instance, is a great book, by the way. This is the DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics by Dennis O'Neill with an introduction by Stan Lee. This is actually a great, great book.

00:13:07 Speaker_07
And I just visited Comic-Con for the first time, in this case, in New York City, which was huge. I could not believe the scale of it. I have always loved illustration and wanted to be a comic book penciler.

00:13:21 Speaker_07
Actually, this is going to suck for people who only have audio, but I'll do some more show and tell. Hold on. Okay, so this is artwork that my mom kept that is from way back in the day.

00:13:35 Speaker_07
But just to give you an idea, right, like, these are kind of covers of magazines that I did way back in like 95, 96.

00:13:47 Speaker_07
And this type of stuff, you know, this type of illustration, I'm not saying it's the best in the world, but it's a long standing interest of mine. And reinvigorating that.

00:13:59 Speaker_07
So part of what I've done is look backwards in time to guess at what might elicit a lot of energy recharge for me in the future. So looking back at what really activated me and seeing if I can explore some of those edges in the future.

00:14:15 Speaker_07
Furthermore, animation is way up there, and doing creative pushes, which I experimented first through the fiction writing associated with cockpunch, which, by the way, if you replace that word with anything else, it is a pretty viable fantasy world, but it was a way to take pressure off of myself, right?

00:14:36 Speaker_07
To publicly kind of position it as a joke and a satire, but allowing me with very little pressure

00:14:42 Speaker_07
to play with things that otherwise, if I presented them as serious, I think could cause a lot of performance anxiety and insecurity because if people critiqued it, I would take it very personally. Stuff like this, masterpieces of fantasy art.

00:14:56 Speaker_07
This is Frazetta on the cover. Lots of amazing artwork in this one. And those are a few. And there's certainly the new book project But within the book project, changing a lot of variables.

00:15:12 Speaker_07
So for instance, and I haven't made any decisions around this yet, but the possibility of self-publishing, the possibility of taking that book, presenting it serially, so sharing the first chapter or the first two chapters, something like that.

00:15:26 Speaker_07
having a private community of, I don't know how many people, 100, 200 people maybe, who test aspects of the book and then provide feedback and refine it over time and release a chapter a week or something like that over time and have the audience track it, the small audience, the private audience track it in real time and then

00:15:49 Speaker_07
polish the whole thing into a diamond, hopefully, and publish it later. Which could be very much, almost certainly at least a high percentage of that project would be outside of traditional publishing.

00:16:02 Speaker_07
So I'm taking something I know, but I'm creating a permutation that might lead somewhere very, very interesting. And this is a very long answer, so obviously I'm thinking about it a lot.

00:16:14 Speaker_07
In the case of, say, the publishing – this is true with all the other games, comic books, etc. that I mentioned – I'm looking for projects that will help me to either build or deepen relationships and acquire skills that can transcend that project.

00:16:33 Speaker_07
So, for instance, if, so Cockpunch, I mean, yeah, sure, it succeeded in the sense that it raised $2 million for Saisei Foundation. All of the proceeds went to my nonprofit foundation to fund science and so on, early-stage science.

00:16:47 Speaker_07
But NFTs as a whole, as you may have noticed, have fallen out of favor for a million and one reasons, which is fine. And I kind of anticipated that might be the case.

00:16:57 Speaker_07
And so set expectations very, very low up front because you can't predict these types of market conditions.

00:17:04 Speaker_07
But I learned a lot through that, ended up doing a scripted podcast, met some of the best artists in the world to say Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering, worked really well with them.

00:17:15 Speaker_07
So most importantly, proof to myself that I could work with a small team of creatives and we would actually get along as opposed to like me being unreasonable and

00:17:24 Speaker_07
Overly stubborn and control freak, which are probably ways I would describe myself, but it actually worked, and I was like, holy shit, okay, it's a proof of concept.

00:17:33 Speaker_07
I could take that newfound confidence, you know, that very limited experiment, but the feeling from that, and apply it to possibly something more ambitious or completely different, like animation, as an example, would be a very, very, very different iteration of that process.

00:17:51 Speaker_07
So, not sure if that answers the question, but that's how I'm trying to think through a lot of these things myself. Is that helpful at all? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks. All right, let's hop around. Theron.

00:18:05 Speaker_07
My question for you, Tim, is what's bringing you joy these days? I would say it's always the simple things, right?

00:18:13 Speaker_07
We can search for all these esoteric means of satisfying this quest for happiness and joy, and usually the absence of those things is remedied pretty quickly with just returning to basics.

00:18:24 Speaker_07
So for me, I would say I experienced one of the most uninterrupted periods of joy most recently

00:18:34 Speaker_07
Being in the mountains, spending the first half of every day more or less outside with my dog, getting tons of exercise in the sun, pushing the system, adding some stress, getting all the benefits of the hormonal cascade and so on that comes from that.

00:18:50 Speaker_07
And then in the second half of the day spending time on first and foremost the admin stuff of life is always there but really blocking out consistently it's easier for me to do this. When i have less time in a day to allocate to work.

00:19:08 Speaker_07
When i have all the time in the world and i'm in an urban environment i can fit away all that time and ten fifteen minute distractions and end up not really accomplishing very much not feeling very good about it if i have the first half of the day which you could do in an urban environment to kind of dedicated to.

00:19:24 Speaker_07
Motion movement physical skill development. In this case, time with my dog, so it could be some type of group class or otherwise.

00:19:31 Speaker_07
It doesn't have to be the whole day, but really having that in the first half of the day, then having a two to four hour period where I'm focused on something very immersive, single tasking without any distractions.

00:19:44 Speaker_07
And in this case, that would have been latter half of August, September, and then early October. It would have been book-focused and doing that in collaboration with one other person who I'm deeply involving in this book project.

00:20:01 Speaker_07
So I would say those are a few. And then along the lines of kind of week-to-week identity diversification, so that if one thing stalls or doesn't do well, or as well as I would hope, I can still have a win, so to speak, chalk things up to a win.

00:20:18 Speaker_07
Archery has been great. That's ongoing, so I'm spending a lot of time with archery. I overdid it the other day, so my shoulder and elbow are killing me because I overdid it in a particularly stupid way.

00:20:29 Speaker_07
So I'm taking a few days off, but that has been a really consistent practice, such that if I'm not in the mountains, because practically speaking, I mean, you asked me personally what I'm doing, but for a lot of folks, it's like, okay, well, great.

00:20:40 Speaker_07
If you happen to be able to put yourself in the mountains around rivers and lakes, fantastic.

00:20:44 Speaker_07
But even where I'm sitting right now, for instance, not tomorrow, because I need the elbow and shoulder rest, but the day after that, as soon as I wake up, it's gonna be meditation,

00:20:54 Speaker_07
briefly and I just recently got back on the train and we might speak more about that later in this conversation, then an hour of archery and then cold plunge. That's the morning. It doesn't have to be four or five hours.

00:21:09 Speaker_07
It can be quite a bit shorter and that sets the tone for the rest of the day. Those are a few things that come to mind on an annual level.

00:21:18 Speaker_07
I would say the most important thing that I do for my sense of joy and well-being, and I think joy for me is very often the forgetting of the self, whereas the quest for happiness can sometimes get turned into an obsessive focus on the self.

00:21:36 Speaker_07
Does that make sense? At least I think that's where I slip sometimes. It's like, I should be happy, I should be happy, am I happy? Whereas Joy is a sort of emergent experience of forgetting yourself.

00:21:48 Speaker_07
So for me to facilitate that, blocking out multiple, say, one-week periods where I'm with groups of friends, that's just the most reliable way to do it. So each year,

00:22:02 Speaker_07
I'll look through the past year, identify, let's just call it the relationships that are most enlivening for me, where they're reliably always going to be, hell yeah, I wish we could have spent more time together, can't wait to do that again.

00:22:16 Speaker_07
Those people, it's a short list. and then scheduling time with those people in group environments, ideally doing something active like yurt-to-yurt, backcountry skiing, or hike, or in the case of most recently, it was a hunt with five other people.

00:22:33 Speaker_07
I don't hunt very frequently, but that's my protein for the next three to six months, depending on how many meals I can replicate with the exact same protein. And those are some of, I suppose, the variables that seem to consistently deliver.

00:22:51 Speaker_07
But if I'm out of sorts, it's like, all right, are you getting enough light in the morning? Are you getting enough exercise in the morning? Do you have your diet dialed?

00:23:01 Speaker_07
Are you in a place like New York City where, surprise, surprise, like you've been out, you've had alcohol four nights this week with your stupid friends who also do the same thing.

00:23:08 Speaker_07
It's very often the basic things and kind of removing those emergency brakes that facilitates what we're looking for or what I'm looking for. Is that helpful?

00:23:17 Speaker_06
Yeah, that was great. Thanks, Tim.

00:23:19 Speaker_07
Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, so I'm going to kind of like wind my way around here. Let's see. Kristina, would you like to go next?

00:23:29 Speaker_00
So how late are you talking about how you think about the next, whatever, 6-12 months? One of the things I really admire about is your way of thinking and questioning, and not particularly with Tano's generalized overtaking.

00:23:45 Speaker_00
For me, the ability to ask the right questions, different questions, good questions, is probably the most important. So I'm curious about your thoughts and how you keep those questions fresh.

00:24:00 Speaker_07
Well, not to get too meta. I mean, that is a question I ask myself quite a bit, too. So thanks for bringing it up. I'd say with questions, there are a lot of different settings for questions. First of all, you could ask me a question.

00:24:16 Speaker_07
I can ask the group a question. Those might be different species of questions. Asking yourself questions can also be a different species of question.

00:24:27 Speaker_07
And the way I keep questions fresh, I'll give you a simple tactical answer, is for instance, I was preparing for a podcast interview recently, and had a research doc, had read through the bio, had asked the guest for certain topics they thought would be interesting to explore, had done my own searching, come up with some independent questions, but we all get in ruts that we don't recognize.

00:24:54 Speaker_07
And those ruts aren't necessarily a bad thing, but they're an easy thing. So I might have my 10 go-to questions, and it's easier to sit with those 10 than to come up with another 10, which may or may not work.

00:25:07 Speaker_07
So I went into ChatGPT, and I said, effectively, How might James Lipton of Inside the Actors Studio interview guest X? What are 10 questions that are variants of questions that have come up a lot in Inside the Actors Studio? Give me 10.

00:25:29 Speaker_07
All right, great. And then the next one is like, give me 10 more for Terry Gross interviewing the same person. Fresh air, right? Give me 10 more with Charlie Rose. And it was very, very helpful. Or if like 10 more with Lex Friedman, sure. Why not?

00:25:47 Speaker_07
Just throw in anyone who is not me, basically. And I'd be like, okay. I wouldn't ask seven of these, but that's an interesting one. And I wouldn't have thought of phrasing it that way. Or it's asking

00:26:00 Speaker_07
A question that i think would be of service to my audience with in the theme of the show so i'm not deviating too far not getting too far field. What it's coming at it from an angle that i wouldn't have considered.

00:26:14 Speaker_07
So i would say those are all approaches i take if i find questions that i like i save them. that you could save them to anywhere. Evernote, Notion, wherever you keep your notes. But I have documents that are basically running lists of questions.

00:26:30 Speaker_07
And they could come from anywhere. It could be a novel. There are questions in novels that I yank. One character asks another. Could be in an in-flight magazine, if those still exist. I don't even know if those still exist.

00:26:43 Speaker_07
Could be practically from anywhere. And then there are I would say consistent questions that I find very helpful, which you might find in some form like the five-minute journal, for instance.

00:26:57 Speaker_07
Those are consistent prompts that work to achieve a desired result, much like a recipe. If you're cooking something specifically, there are guidelines that tend to work repeatedly. Those are a few ways that I think about it. All right. Let's hop to Josh.

00:27:16 Speaker_07
You want to go next?

00:27:18 Speaker_03
Yeah, I was going to ask if you spend your life battling tech admin stuff like we do, but that was answered pretty quickly. Yeah, there's always that stuff. There's always that stuff. I guess my real question, some of the.

00:27:31 Speaker_03
Successful people you've interviewed have gone through long periods of being unsuccessful or rejected or bankrupt or whatever. You've sort of documented some of your own struggles writing the body book and some of the other things.

00:27:47 Speaker_03
I guess, what are some of the unifying themes about those who eventually do breakthrough and kind of how to get out of a rut you've already touched on, which was part of my question.

00:27:58 Speaker_03
But I think, you know, anything you could just elaborate on that really should be great.

00:28:02 Speaker_07
Yeah, I can. Could you give me, if you're open to it, you don't have to, but a little more context for why that question because that could that could help.

00:28:11 Speaker_03
I guess, you know, sort of taking a little bit of a career break as you have and thinking about things that have brought me joy in the past was certainly one thing that, you know, looking to do next moves.

00:28:23 Speaker_03
And I think the decision process that you've already outlined a little bit is things that bring you joy and you've kind of arrived at a couple core principles of things that you're looking for your next projects to help you do.

00:28:35 Speaker_03
I guess just a little bit more upstream from that, how you made the decision to call time out after the 10 years and take the sabbatical and then, you know, just how you sort of got out of the day to day of doing what you do so very well.

00:28:51 Speaker_03
And again, I know you've touched upon it's, it's hard to do that, but you know, just anything on that, that you could share would be helpful in terms of how you

00:28:59 Speaker_03
realigned your thinking to do something a little bit different, but building on what you've already done very well.

00:29:08 Speaker_07
I'd say a few things. So I could speak to my decision to hit pause or rethink things. I suppose there are a few fundamental beliefs that led me to do that or allowed me to do that.

00:29:22 Speaker_07
The first is that constant motion in some respects or constant productivity per se is the enemy of oblique thinking. So if you're looking at

00:29:37 Speaker_07
Seeing a problem or situation with fresh eyes and uncommon way that allows you to make unique or highly leveraged decisions. When you are constantly turning i think it requires you to be this close to the problem. and therefore it's hard to zoom out.

00:29:54 Speaker_07
So for me, I had that belief to begin with, that not necessarily stillness, but having a little bit of distance is necessary for me to really consider doing X before the entire rest of the world does X. And I'm looking for ideally being a category of one.

00:30:13 Speaker_07
I don't like competing in my professional life in this particular way. Archery or something like that great compartmentalized very clear. It's time bound pass fail all the points great but when it can become a sort of never ending story of.

00:30:32 Speaker_07
unquestioned ambition within, say, the world of podcasting, then I want to make sure there are periods built in where I have some distance.

00:30:40 Speaker_07
The other fundamental belief, and I'm sticking with the belief stuff because these are thoughts that we take to be true. Beliefs are thoughts we take to be true, and I'm sure I'm borrowing that from someone like Byron Katie.

00:30:53 Speaker_07
The belief structure is sort of the reed raft upon which everything else floats. If you really want to have the most optionality with your direction, I think it's very helpful to make the implicit beliefs explicit and look at them carefully.

00:31:12 Speaker_07
So the other belief that I think is helpful, I actually know quite concretely, this is not limited to people who are in the top 1% of 1%. The world does not end if you slow down or take a break.

00:31:25 Speaker_07
It'll carry on just perfectly fine, generally, without you. Now, there are constraints if you're saying that you want to take a break from a job that provides all the income from your family and pays the mortgage and puts food on the table.

00:31:39 Speaker_07
Obviously, there are constraints. If you were to delete all social media from your phone and titrate down the kind of aperture of noise and news that gets flooded into your system. You'd be fine. You'd probably be better off.

00:31:56 Speaker_07
So the hyperkinetic feeling of modern society is not conducive or necessary for making decisions with outsized outcomes, if that makes sense. Those are a few kind of underpinning beliefs, and there are people who prove this, right?

00:32:15 Speaker_07
A lot of the people that I most respect in their profession, like a Daniel Day-Lewis or something, They disappear for five years at a time, they come back, no one's like, where's Daniel Day-Lewis? What are his latest tweets about politics?

00:32:26 Speaker_07
Nobody gives a shit, right? As long as you're really good at craft X, you are going to have, I think, a good number of options. So I'm meandering a little bit, but help me refocus. Is there a particular aspect of your question that you'd like me to hit?

00:32:39 Speaker_03
I think you're really hitting on a lot of the stuff and you know, like you said earlier, some of the stuff about hitting, how do you think about things that bring you joy and then you, you know, realign with your beliefs to get there.

00:32:50 Speaker_03
I think this is really helpful. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, it's inspiring that someone as successful as you at something has done this and taken stock and sort of step back because it kind of gives the rest of us hope to do the same thing.

00:33:01 Speaker_03
You know, even if it's just something that you're just saying, I'm going to take a step back and then do similar to what I'm doing and some other stuff. maybe in a different way with a different lens.

00:33:11 Speaker_03
It's just helpful to think through that to get the rest of us to the to the happy place.

00:33:17 Speaker_07
Yeah, happy to try to assist. I definitely don't have everything figured out. I would say also that, and this comes back to Christina's question on questions.

00:33:27 Speaker_07
If you're hitting a dead end or you don't seem to be able to reliably answer a question and it's causing you stress, for instance, like how can I find joy?

00:33:37 Speaker_07
Let's just say that you've been banging your head against that question and it hasn't been producing great results. One thing you can do that I will sometimes do is, okay, maybe that's not a good question, but there's a feeling that I'm going for.

00:33:51 Speaker_07
If I look back at the past, what are some of the antecedents to joy? So maybe the question isn't like, how do I create more joy? It's how do I create some precursor to that? And for me, one of those is

00:34:08 Speaker_07
a sense of losing the self, or the dissolution of the self. That's another way that I think about these things. Antecedents to X. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show.

00:34:39 Speaker_07
I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science-driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food source nutrients.

00:34:50 Speaker_07
In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase.

00:35:06 Speaker_07
So learn more, check it out. Go to drinkag1.com slash Tim. That's drinkag1, the number one. Drinkag1.com slash Tim. Last time, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Check it out. All right, we're just gonna work our way through. Wade, would you like to go next?

00:35:30 Speaker_05
Well, I just wanna say thanks for everything you do. I genuinely appreciate it, love the content, love what you're about, learn a lot. You've been like a gym companion for me for like nine years.

00:35:42 Speaker_05
There's nothing better than a good Tim Ferriss podcast in the gym, so genuinely appreciate that. I think my question is around, and maybe I'm wrong, it's just an observation, but I've listened to you for a long time.

00:35:55 Speaker_05
the edges have softened a little bit in regards to your life, maybe personality, seems like maybe there's a hint of spirituality that's evolved a bit since I've been listening.

00:36:07 Speaker_05
So is there anything in particular that has helped maybe soften the edges and is there a different perspective on spirituality than there used to be?

00:36:18 Speaker_07
I would say I've definitely softened a lot in the last five years especially, and maybe I'm just getting older and tired, who knows.

00:36:27 Speaker_07
But if we take that off the table as an explanation, although I think a lot of stuff comes down to, I was talking to a friend and they were like, oh yeah, I'm just, you know, I've become so much chiller in conflict resolution with my partner after 10 years, but it took like five years and I was like, maybe it's just fatigue.

00:36:44 Speaker_07
I was sort of being a jerk about it and then just being playful. But if I take that off the table, I mean, there are a few things that are proactive and also just life experiences, I think, that contribute to that.

00:36:57 Speaker_07
So I would say one is seeing dozens upon dozens upon dozens of close friends or podcast guests who are materially successful beyond belief have all the prestige you could possibly imagine in a business capacity.

00:37:18 Speaker_07
Who are nonetheless dissatisfied or chasing something like a hungry ghost if that makes sense and the reason that's relevant is that a lot of the.

00:37:32 Speaker_07
piss and vinegar and sort of spitfire focus that I've had, I think has been predicated subconsciously on some belief that with enough of X success, that success resolves

00:37:48 Speaker_07
I'm not going to say all issues, because I never would have said that, but most issues. And that's just not true. It's just not true at all. I would say also what I've observed in very wealthy people is that they build, they build, they build.

00:38:07 Speaker_07
Their number moves. They make X amount of money, then they want 10X, and then, no, it's as soon as I have 100X, and then it's as soon as I have 1,000X, then I can chill out, and I'll know everything's going to be OK.

00:38:18 Speaker_07
And if you put that under scrutiny, when I've seen older people, and I've spoken to, say, grandparents or people who are building dynastic wealth, it seems like, this is gonna sound obnoxious, but I'll just say it, which is like if you give your kids a ton of money, let's just say that's more than 10 or 20 million bucks, right, people who are making just obscene amounts of money, building incredible amounts of wealth, there is an amount of money

00:38:46 Speaker_07
past a certain point that seems to just fuck up your kids horribly. I'm not saying that's always the case, but the, I just wanna create a better and brighter future for my kids and give them the things I didn't have and da-da-da-da-da.

00:39:02 Speaker_07
There's a point where more is a lot less, from what I've seen. It's just my personal impression. So if you realize that the professional stuff is not gonna solve all your problems, or all your challenges, let's just say,

00:39:17 Speaker_07
And if you realize accumulating Scrooge McDuck levels of wealth and then donating it all to your kids, if it turns into a serious amount of money, is probably a bad idea. It's not just neutral. You might actually really screw your kids up.

00:39:31 Speaker_07
Then it raises the question of why around a lot. at least around the business stuff. I think it contributes, in addition to other things that I'll mention, to taking it seriously but not too seriously. Taking it less seriously. Does that make sense?

00:39:49 Speaker_07
And when you take those things less seriously, if you have been inclined to take them very seriously and consequently yourself very seriously, I think by taking those things less seriously, you start to take yourself a little less seriously.

00:40:03 Speaker_07
These conversations also about legacy and leaving something to be remembered, they're helpful in some cases, like those myths, but it's like, how many people can name the most powerful people in the world when the Assyrians were running around?

00:40:19 Speaker_07
How many people can name the most powerful Babylonian? Alexander the Great, what's his full name? Nobody knows.

00:40:29 Speaker_07
The idea, especially with the amount of information overwhelm that is our current day, the idea of also creating some permanent record of yourself that just persists over more than 10 years after you're dead, if you're lucky, is silly.

00:40:46 Speaker_07
It's a little silly. But we all need reasons to do things. And actually, I think, Josh, you're asking about people who failed and failed and then succeeded. I think myths are very helpful here.

00:41:00 Speaker_07
So coming up with myths, whether that is like, when I have enough money, it's going to solve everything. Great. Like, that's an incredible incentive. or the myth that I am the only person in the world who's destined to create this amazing piece of art.

00:41:13 Speaker_07
Okay, maybe that's true, but it's probably a myth. But it can be a very empowering myth. And it makes me think of Seth Godin who said, I'm paraphrasing, but past a certain point, money is a story.

00:41:23 Speaker_07
So pick a story you can live with that benefits you instead of handicaps you. Then on the spirituality side, I generally steer away from that term.

00:41:33 Speaker_07
It's a useful term because there isn't a great replacement in some conversations, but it can get used in a lot of different ways.

00:41:42 Speaker_07
But I would say that my openness to, it's not even openness, it's like my recognition that the more we know, the more we realize we don't know, I think has,

00:41:59 Speaker_07
open my mind, as I have a lot of strange experiences that I've had with, whether it's psychedelics or otherwise. It's not limited to that. And I explore the fringes, right? I mean, I really do. And I try to keep my skeptics hat on.

00:42:11 Speaker_07
I think I'm actually quite good at not fooling myself. And I will ask, what are the alternate explanations for this? How might this otherwise be explained? Et cetera, et cetera. But there's a lot of strange stuff out there. It doesn't mean it's magic.

00:42:24 Speaker_07
but it does highlight sometimes the limits of our current abilities to measure and freeze-frame things for scientific studies. Those are all contributors, I would say, in the bucket, broadly speaking, of not taking myself too, too seriously.

00:42:41 Speaker_07
If my work is a subset of myself, then it applies to that too. would be having a lot of friends die. I've had lots of friends pass away. I've had people get very sick. I've seen people succumb to dementia.

00:42:57 Speaker_07
As you get older and you see more and more of this, it just highlights the fact that this ride is not, it's not a long ride. And I'm not convinced that, you know, death is the end necessarily, but still, we don't know.

00:43:11 Speaker_07
You know, let's not spend the entire roller coaster worrying about, you know, whatever Trump said on your phone. Like, roller coaster's not going to last forever.

00:43:19 Speaker_07
So focus, you know, take in the view, you know, poke the person next to you, try to share a laugh because it's just not that long. And even if you come to a quote-unquote natural end in old age, it's not long.

00:43:34 Speaker_07
But sadly, I've lost a lot of friends and acquaintances, certainly, to car accidents. I mean, you name it. You just don't know. So I think the softening is around a lot of that.

00:43:46 Speaker_07
The softening also comes from, I think, exploring different modalities for trying to metabolize the childhood abuse that I've talked about elsewhere.

00:44:01 Speaker_07
That requires a degree of cultivated compassion for yourself that I historically have not paid a lot of attention to.

00:44:12 Speaker_07
It's hard for me to see any way around developing compassion, more compassion for yourself if you want to genuinely express compassion for other people. I'm not sure there's a workaround there. I've thought about this quite a bit.

00:44:26 Speaker_07
It goes both ways, but fundamentally I think that's a homework assignment for a lot of people, that if, I'm not going to say solved, but if that is paid sufficient attention, has all these downstream benefits, one of which I think is just a general softening, I would say.

00:44:46 Speaker_07
So those are the things that come to mind.

00:44:48 Speaker_05
Thanks, man. That was awesome.

00:44:50 Speaker_07
Appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. All right, so faces have moved around a little bit. I'll try to keep track. I think I can keep track of who's gone, who hasn't. Since Tim is up in the corner next to me, I'm going to go with. Tim, you want to go next?

00:45:01 Speaker_03
Yeah, again, thanks for all you do. It's been an amazing journey from your books through your podcast journey and cocktunch. Love the coffee. I've got some right over there. I'm still drinking it.

00:45:13 Speaker_03
So I had a question that was kind of tuned to all these longevity protocols with AI and all the latest research that's coming out as far as the compounds, the protocols, like how do you keep up, right? For you, I've been introduced to Peter Attia.

00:45:27 Speaker_03
Andrew Shuberman, Lane Norton, and a lot of other great kind of contemporary, leading-edge, science-backed information seekers and deliverers. So how do you approach handling that, especially with this? We're in the age of AI now.

00:45:44 Speaker_03
So that was going to be my question. That's what I submitted. But on the topics that you just have been going through, and it's in my own life, I'm realizing these instances, you know, when people are passing

00:45:57 Speaker_03
My dog, Pepper, passed away just like two months ago. What do you do with grief? And how is that something that, as far as your approach, something that you see as helpful, something to be avoided?

00:46:10 Speaker_03
I mean, you're kind of all through it with what the information you've just been walking us through, but just kind of with grief, because you only have so much time, right?

00:46:21 Speaker_07
Thanks. Yeah, for sure. So on the grief side, I definitely don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's part of the human condition. No expert, but I would say a few things.

00:46:34 Speaker_07
This kind of comes back to Wade's question about spirituality in the sense, and I will come back to the longevity protocols and so on. Might as well talk about that. But

00:46:46 Speaker_07
I think that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater in some respects with the stripping away of religion from, let's just call it modern secular society.

00:46:59 Speaker_07
And what I mean by that is not that we should believe in a guy with a beard in the clouds, I'm not saying that, but that there are cultural milestones, in some cases rites of passage,

00:47:14 Speaker_07
these markers along the way on this journey of life that are codified in, say, religion. And in some cases that can be very helpful. So for instance,

00:47:26 Speaker_07
mourning periods will sometimes be very carefully outlined, and a group of people will agree with this type of death, you mourn for this period of time, here's the protocol, maybe you wear black, and so you can have a feeling of completeness and perhaps closure within the construct of this societal norm, right?

00:47:47 Speaker_07
We don't really have that. It's left up to everybody to sort of create our own, And I'm not saying this for everybody. There are certainly plenty of religious folks out there.

00:47:56 Speaker_07
But by and large, let's just say in places where I spent a lot of time, Austin, New York, California, people are somewhat cut adrift.

00:48:05 Speaker_07
And sure, they might be able to tell you all about different philosophers they read in college and listen about on podcasts. But fundamentally, there's a sense of being somewhat unmoored, I would say. So the grief

00:48:21 Speaker_07
Topic is a really good one and it serves as kind of a microcosm of the macro reflects the challenges within grief i think reflect broader societal challenges the book on grief and grieving is probably the most common recommendation that i hear from a podcast guest.

00:48:41 Speaker_07
So i think that could be worth checking out on the longevity protocols just to take a hard left i would say.

00:48:47 Speaker_07
I really don't try to stay up to date with the longevity protocols in part because there's so much garbage and there's so many influencers, quote unquote, trying to peddle whatever RevShare stem cell clinic they've partnered with in Tijuana or whatever might be the case.

00:49:06 Speaker_07
It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction if you don't have a really reliable source. I would say just follow Peter, honestly. Peter Atiyah, for that specifically, that's really his wheelhouse. He focuses on health span.

00:49:20 Speaker_07
I've known him since 2009. I've spent time with his doctors in the clinic. I've gone through Biograph, which he's involved with, and so on. So I have a high degree of confidence

00:49:33 Speaker_07
in Peter, and I've seen him repeatedly turn down offers for very lucrative business arrangements in exchange for promoting X, Y, or Z, and he just won't do it if he doesn't really feel 100% comfortable supporting their conclusions and claims.

00:49:51 Speaker_07
So I would say pay attention to that and frankly, the more we learn, the more the basics are the basics for a reason. It's like creatine's been around for decades. This is nothing new. Just took some before doing this conversation, right?

00:50:05 Speaker_07
It's present in a lot of food that we consume naturally. It's a known quantity in the body. pretty well understood.

00:50:13 Speaker_07
As soon as you start getting into the bleeding edge, where it's like, well, these people are going to Honduras and injecting themselves with folistatin, and look at these amazing before and after photos.

00:50:22 Speaker_07
But it does kind of turn off your FSH, and so it might make you infertile in these animal models. Something like that seems to happen. But look how awesome his APAC looks. It's like, oof.

00:50:32 Speaker_07
I'm not sure you want to be the third monkey shot into space with that stuff as a human subject. So I tend to stay away from the bleeding edge.

00:50:42 Speaker_07
I used to be very aggressive with this, certainly in my four-hour body days, I was very aggressive with this. And I think in part because I was fascinated, in part because I didn't foresee how nagging certain problems could be.

00:50:55 Speaker_07
It's like, yeah, if you fuck up and have a problem that causes orthopedic issues in your elbow, it's not a foregone conclusion that that's gonna be fixed a year later. You might just have tendinosis for the next 40 years. Oops.

00:51:08 Speaker_07
So I do pay more attention to the downside, and I would say that in general,

00:51:18 Speaker_07
One of the ways that I frame this for myself is not what can I do that will make me live longer, but what can I subtract that might make me live longer or just live more healthfully.

00:51:31 Speaker_07
So for instance, I mean, this is gonna sound maybe funny, and there's a lot of pseudoscience, wackadoodle stuff out there about this, but just minimizing exposure to plastics and phthalates and things like that, it seems very conclusive at this point that

00:51:46 Speaker_07
from an endocrine perspective and so on. These are just very, very bad news. So it's like, don't heat things in plastic. Use more glass. These are very, very basic things. Use filtration. Have proper filtration for your water.

00:51:59 Speaker_07
If you don't have really, really good filtration for your water.

00:52:03 Speaker_07
You might want to take a look at it because even in very rural areas, you could have, for instance, in some of the mountainous areas, I've spent time like high levels of arsenic because there used to be mining.

00:52:12 Speaker_07
And if you're way out in the country, you might have higher concentrations of groundwater pesticides, things like this from agriculture. So just paying really close attention to that kind of stuff. Exercise, it's like the cure-all, right?

00:52:25 Speaker_07
It's like zone two, weight training, just like you just got to do it. Or you don't have to do it. People are always glad to have done it, I would say. And it feels good, for me at least.

00:52:37 Speaker_07
It's the most consistent mood elevator, for sure, in addition to cold exposure. And these tools, I think if someone is on the verge of being diabetic or diabetic,

00:52:50 Speaker_07
There could very well be a role for these drugs like Ozepic or Munjara, etc., but they're not free lunches. Come back to the blog post I wrote some time ago. I think it's just called No Biological Free Lunches.

00:53:02 Speaker_07
There are trade-offs here, and if you don't know what the trade-offs are, it's not because they don't exist. It's just because we have not identified them as consistently yet.

00:53:12 Speaker_07
But if it's a matter of life and death and you need to lose weight, hey, then you do a risk calculus. But in general, the stuff that I'm doing for longevity is the stuff I've been doing for 10 plus years.

00:53:24 Speaker_07
Creatine, exercise, try not to stuff your fucking face every time you sit down to eat, which is my biggest challenge. I love eating. God, do I love eating. But these are known problems. So those are my thoughts on the longevity stuff. Thanks, Tim. Yeah.

00:53:42 Speaker_07
I'm sorry about your dog, man. I think about that all the time. Got my pup right next to me. It's just like, oh, God. It's like I think I'm going to cry on planes every time I think about it. So I'm sorry. All right. Joel, you want to hop in?

00:53:53 Speaker_02
Hey, uh, Tim and other Tim, sorry about your dog too. I lost a cat two months ago. Also had her for 14 years, had her from when she was a kitten and something that really helped me. I mean, she was, I spent a lot of time with that cat, right?

00:54:07 Speaker_02
I lived in a small apartment for many years, just me and her and Now we have some land and I buried her. I dug her four feet down. I dug the hole myself with my wife. It was nighttime and digging a hole.

00:54:19 Speaker_02
And we really think a lot about environmentalism because we're not religious. So we just really like thinking about nature. And so to bury her, not cremate her, to get her body from the vets,

00:54:31 Speaker_02
and not put her in a plastic bag and dig her deep enough where animals don't get to her and she's on our land and she's going to biodegrade, return to the earth. Yeah. And wear black for a couple of days and see it as mourning.

00:54:42 Speaker_02
I know she's, she was just a cat, but I think there's that gravestone that meme that from like a hundred years ago where she was enough of a human to be a comfort in times of stress and sadness, even though she was just a cat that helped us.

00:54:54 Speaker_02
That was our process two months ago, coincidentally. So just thought I'd share that, Tim. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. So, um, question.

00:55:02 Speaker_02
So I've got a pre-prepared question that coincidentally Josh, I saw he was asking about kind of creative projects and he had a copy because you have to do the video, which is pretty cool. Oh, Rick Rubin's the creative act.

00:55:13 Speaker_02
I saw that copy on Josh's zoom. So my question is about that. I think a lot about creativity. I've been making a living as an artist for number of years and in his book, the creative act, Rick talks about the aesthetic. It's one of the chapters.

00:55:29 Speaker_02
And he's describing creative projects where they give you like a primal feeling of warmth in your body.

00:55:37 Speaker_02
And he says that that's a great creative compass to recognize when you're searching for a breakthrough, when you're like in a slog of bad work and mediocrity and

00:55:51 Speaker_02
experiments that are going nowhere, but when you feel ecstatic about something, that's a great compass for trying to discover greatness or a breakthrough, or he says, like an answered prayer.

00:56:04 Speaker_02
And I, I surely felt like glimpses of it at times, but I'm curious in your past prejudice or your future, what you're working on when you have felt the ecstatic, the ecstatic in ecstatic, sorry, the ecstatic in creative projects,

00:56:20 Speaker_02
And especially in the future, what you think in the next projects might be, what gives you that sense of the ecstatic?

00:56:28 Speaker_07
I think about this a lot. Not in those terms. I mean, I know Rick decently well, and it makes sense that that would be in the book. I haven't read the entire book, but it makes a lot of sense it would be in there. I think a lot about a few things.

00:56:41 Speaker_07
Not just feeling that, I would say for me it's a quickening of sorts.

00:56:48 Speaker_07
It's like if I'm engaged with a certain type of project or discussion about a potential project and I've got the kind of two cups of coffee with no jitters, just that like extreme comfortable focus, like a calm but intense focus that is energy giving, I pay a lot of attention to that.

00:57:08 Speaker_07
I also think about clearing the decks so that you can actually pick up that signal. For instance, if you consume too many stimulants, too much coffee, too much this, too much macho, whatever the hell it might be,

00:57:20 Speaker_07
In a sense, you're raising the level of, gain might not be the right word, but level of static. So it becomes harder to pick out that signal. You might get a lot of false positives.

00:57:32 Speaker_07
Or you might be irritable and then get a lot of false negatives where you're just like, oh, this is making me creepy and crawly. And it's like, no, it's because you had your fifth double espresso for the day, dummy.

00:57:41 Speaker_07
So for me personally, I try to keep track of that.

00:57:45 Speaker_07
and paying attention to the physiology, which is not inherently natural for me, or it doesn't come reflexively because I've spent so much time looking at kind of the spreadsheet analysis side of things, being really analytical.

00:58:01 Speaker_07
But if I get off a phone call and I'm drained, or if I get off a phone call and I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, I want to do another one of those, it's sometimes that simple. And it's not that I know with certainty that X marks the spot.

00:58:16 Speaker_07
This is the project. When it's done and it looks like this, this is going to be the ecstatic moment. It's not so much that for me. It's like a scent trail. It's like an energetic scent trail, if that makes sense.

00:58:27 Speaker_07
And there is a description – I can't remember whose description it was – about writing a novel And the metaphor was, writing a novel is like driving across the country starting at night with your headlights on.

00:58:41 Speaker_07
It's like you can't see your destination, but you don't need to see your destination. You just need to see far enough in front of you to kind of navigate your way and adjust. So I would say for me, those are some of the ways I think about it.

00:58:56 Speaker_07
I mean, a cock punch, as ridiculous as it is, that was one of those where I was just so energized by the prospect of digging into the art specifically and the fantasy and what that would do from a freedom perspective in writing fiction versus highly researched nonfiction.

00:59:13 Speaker_07
I was like, Okay, I don't even know, that seems kind of like a dead end on some like, this could be a huge mistake. But I'm getting so much of a physical response. I was like, fuck it. You know, this seems like not the kind of thing to ignore.

00:59:32 Speaker_07
And that liberated so much energy that I could apply not just to that project, but to other projects that I've no regrets about it whatsoever.

00:59:43 Speaker_02
I'm curious if you've ever gotten into Lord of the Rings because it's such a cultural phenomenon and Lord of the Rings has had a big impact on my life in terms of fantasy. And with Cockpunch and DMD, do they have like a hero's journey?

00:59:58 Speaker_02
Like Bible, Jesus, like Lord of the Rings does? Did you think about that at all with cock punch? And does D&D have that, like a singular figure, like Frodo carrying the ring? Like, have you ever inserted that or thought about that?

01:00:13 Speaker_07
D&D, as far as I know, does not have that. Lord of the Rings, I mean, I was just in Oxford for a week in the UK and was looking at original handwritten notes from Tolkien and looking at his scripts of Elvish.

01:00:29 Speaker_07
Spending time in pubs where he and CS Lewis and others would hang out. So I am deeply deeply interested by talking. I think a good dungeon master.

01:00:41 Speaker_07
Will have some felt sense of the heroes journey as they're weaving adventures for people that are playing out in real time. The circumstances and the players and the module don't always conform to like, all is lost and then there's the redemption.

01:00:56 Speaker_07
It might just be all is lost and then you're fucking dead. So it doesn't always have like the Star Wars like, yeah, go R2-D2 moment.

01:01:05 Speaker_02
Like, do you have a singular... hero in Cockpunch?

01:01:09 Speaker_07
As it's laid out right now, that's not made clear. In my mind, if I were to... So that, with some of the recent art I put on Instagram, I said, okay, we're going to call this Legends of Varlata. And so I just took the Cockpunch out.

01:01:23 Speaker_07
So let's say it's Legends of Varlata. There is a character that I keep coming back to in my own mind, too. And it's not a Jesus character, but it's sort of like an Ender's Game

01:01:35 Speaker_07
Frodo-ish character is Tyrolean, so the son who is in the last few episodes of the podcast.

01:01:44 Speaker_07
So Tyrolean and his father, that particular dynamic, I have an entire... If somebody was like, here's 100 million bucks, go make something awesome, I'm like, I know exactly what I would make. this is what I would do, and it would be fucking amazing.

01:01:58 Speaker_07
I know this sounds ridiculous and just so arrogant to say, but it's like, no. Based on working with the concept artists, the feedback I can give, I can storyboard well enough to like Frank Miller-esque.

01:02:12 Speaker_07
I can be a primary writer, but I have the directorial cinematic sense for how things might be framed visually also. that I can work really well with creatives who are working with animation, moving pictures, whatever.

01:02:28 Speaker_07
So I would say the core relationship that would drive that movie would be the father-son.

01:02:38 Speaker_07
And nothing tragic has happened yet, but if I were to continue my writing for a few more thousand words, stuff would get very exciting and super off the rails really quickly. And then there would be things to solve, something like that.

01:02:53 Speaker_07
So yeah, I think it would be fun. It's just figuring out how to go from rooster NFTs to $100 million animated film. It's just a couple of hops in between that I need to figure out.

01:03:06 Speaker_07
But seeing, for instance, and I mean, I'm not a gaming studio with gajillions of dollars in revenue, but Arcane, seeing what League of Legends and Riot Games did with Arcane. If you guys haven't seen Arcane on Netflix, go watch it. It's Bananas.

01:03:24 Speaker_07
I mean, if you want to see something where, I mean, like the most off-the-rails budget for something animated, it's really remarkable. And there's a YouTube series on the making of, which I would also recommend checking out.

01:03:37 Speaker_07
All right, let's see Chris, the katana and a Fender Stratocaster maybe in the background.

01:03:44 Speaker_04
Yeah, that was a practice. Should have been more conscious, maybe, of the background. I'm not sure. Oh, I like it. I'm into it. It's a practice, so I said, well, where do you put it? You put it there. It kind of helps people when they come in the office.

01:03:56 Speaker_04
It kind of sets the tone a little, I guess. Thanks for us for putting this together. I love the format. It's kind of neat to meet all different people who we share an interest in what you've been doing and that kind of stuff. Yeah, my pleasure.

01:04:08 Speaker_04
I'm having fun. I was wondering, in your case, thinking about your 10 years and that kind of thing, for me, if I looked at the last 10 years for myself,

01:04:18 Speaker_04
It was an underlying theme for me that I really found that I am, wasn't that I was an impatient person, but I found that really developing a high level of patience with both myself and others, it seemed to drag everything else along in a positive way, whether it be compassion or empathy or that kind of thing.

01:04:39 Speaker_04
If I had to pick a theme in the last 10 years for myself, That would probably be it that really might account for positive changes and growth in that regard. I was wondering over the last 10 years, you found a common theme the same way?

01:04:54 Speaker_07
Last 10 years? Well, I could use some lessons and patience. That's never been my strong suit. I would say my mom has made jokes about my impatience since I was a little kid. So I guess I'm the counter example.

01:05:07 Speaker_07
Although that's been a project, but if I'm looking at a through line over the last 10 years, I would say it is developing more awareness in different capacities so that I can self-regulate my physiological response. That's a very wordy thing to say.

01:05:27 Speaker_07
But to explain it, I could say that my challenge has been since childhood that I have a very hypervigilant system, so my sympathetic nervous system, just the adrenaline and adrenaline, all these things, kick off at the slightest provocation.

01:05:43 Speaker_07
Could be just someone dropping a book in a hotel in the room next to me when I'm asleep, and then all of a sudden, heart rates, whatever, 120, and I can't get back to sleep, that type of thing. And that can come up also in conversation.

01:05:56 Speaker_07
If I'm talking to someone and they say something that I create a story in response to, and the story's very upsetting, and then suddenly my physiology's fucked, then the physiology feeds back into the cognitive loop, right?

01:06:08 Speaker_07
I explained it to another therapist recently because this was a CBT contact, so I was like, well, we're gonna work on the thoughts. And I said, we can work on the thoughts, but I'm not convinced the thoughts are where things start.

01:06:18 Speaker_07
I actually think that it's possible my physiology gets activated, and then it's a state in search of a story. That's the phrasing I used. It's a state in search of a story.

01:06:28 Speaker_07
You have this uncomfortable feeling or this strong feeling, and because we're meaning-making machines, we don't like uncertainty. It's like, well, let me go find a story that could explain that.

01:06:38 Speaker_07
And maybe it's a story about myself, maybe it's a story about the world, maybe it's a story about somebody else.

01:06:42 Speaker_07
So I would say the last 10 years has been trying to cultivate an awareness with different tools, meditation, psychedelic therapies, reading books like Awareness by Anthony DeMello, so that in the moment, I can at least be aware of what's happening.

01:06:58 Speaker_07
So for instance, I have been using this app, which is what I use to get back on the train. For the last handful of weeks, Kevin Rose, good buddy Kevin Rose, introduced me to Henry Schuchman. And I had Henry on the podcast twice.

01:07:11 Speaker_07
He is a zen meditation master. Now, I don't like that master term, but he's one of, I wanna say, three or four people authorized to teach this particular school of zen in the United States. And he then developed, started to develop an app.

01:07:30 Speaker_07
I invested in it, but it was early days, kind of back up a napkin thing. And now it's built out. It's called The Way, if you wanna try it.

01:07:38 Speaker_07
And I've been using it 10 minutes a day, twice a day, and I had a really, really challenging conversation today with someone I'm very close to.

01:07:46 Speaker_07
And I could feel my physiology just getting... I have so much background with this person, and I was just like, oh, here we fucking go again. It's one of those. I was just like, oh.

01:07:57 Speaker_07
And I was able to, and this is going to seem very rudimentary, but as I was having this really strong physiological response just to go body, as I'm listening to the person just be like body, I'm just noting.

01:08:09 Speaker_07
that my body is having this extreme response, and by noting it, not trying to suppress it necessarily, just noting it, having that drop in intensity so that I could engage in a way that was less reactive.

01:08:21 Speaker_07
So I would say the project then for the last 10 years has been developing an awareness of an appreciation of how much my physiology drives everything that happens up here and paying more attention to that.

01:08:37 Speaker_07
Not just trying to cross-examine the thoughts, because the thoughts are, I think, a byproduct sometimes of a rapid heart rate, things like that. Does that answer the question?

01:08:44 Speaker_04
Absolutely.

01:08:44 Speaker_07
That's great. All right. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for the question. All right. I think we have one person left. Lee, I believe. Would you like to go? Hi there.

01:08:58 Speaker_06
I'm from Canada. I was having technical difficulties when everyone was doing our introductions. So I guess my question is a two part or part and a half question. So I'm a 47 year old man with a five year old daughter.

01:09:11 Speaker_06
So I started late in life and all I wish for her is to See her find something that lights her up. Anything. I guess that ties into me and my life right now. As I'm wishing that so badly for her, I realize that I need to make a career change.

01:09:26 Speaker_06
I don't love my job. So I have kind of, I decided to go with a clean slate. Any of my past doesn't matter. I want to start to figure out something that lights me up. Is there a few questions that you ask yourself if you ever feel stuck?

01:09:42 Speaker_06
Trying to figure out what that is.

01:09:44 Speaker_07
So you're feeling stuck at the moment in terms of choosing a path forward for yourself?

01:09:49 Speaker_06
To find something that lights me up. I'm lucky right now because I have six months off. So I can think about my next move, where I want to go, what I want to do.

01:09:59 Speaker_06
Any little ember I get and I follow down that path, I think to myself, okay, well, is AI going to do this in five years? How much effort do I want to put into it?

01:10:08 Speaker_06
And I'm just trying to, if there's a few questions I can ask myself or a few things I can do, just to find that thing.

01:10:16 Speaker_07
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. What are some of the options that you're considering at the moment?

01:10:22 Speaker_06
So one of them was architecture on the house design, but I'm thinking in five years, that's going to be pretty much taken by AI, I'm sure. That's the thing. I'm stuck. I used to be in the restaurant business.

01:10:34 Speaker_06
I don't want nothing to do with that anymore. I owned a restaurant for a while. And, you know, I'm just kind of at that point where the next decision I make, I really want to get excited about it. And it could be anything.

01:10:45 Speaker_06
I'm all about learning things and just, I need to find, you know, that spark. So I'm into architecture and that's what I thought was going to be the path and I thought okay well.

01:10:58 Speaker_07
I don't have all the answers, of course, but my thinking around AI – because this is a common concern, right? You're not alone in this.

01:11:04 Speaker_07
A lot of people are wondering what will be gobbled by AI, and I think the short answer is nobody has an idea, right? Nobody really knows. And it's easy to become paralyzed given that there's so much uncertainty around it, but

01:11:22 Speaker_07
My feeling is there certain. Career paths let's just say that are already being eaten you were to say i'm gonna be a logo designer and. earn my money on Fiverr, I'd say that's probably going to get consumed within the next very short period of time.

01:11:42 Speaker_07
But if you have the flexibility to consider paths, I would pay more attention to the quickening than speculation about AI. Number one, there's no right path. So you can take some pressure off yourself

01:11:54 Speaker_07
when you realize that everybody's making it up as they go along. There's no one right answer in the mathematical proof of your life. Does that make sense? It's going to be a trial and error process like it is with everything that we do in life.

01:12:08 Speaker_07
So I would say that with something like architectural design, for instance, I actually don't think it is a foregone conclusion that it's all going to be consumed by AI. In part because

01:12:21 Speaker_07
There are open questions around this technology, for instance, will people want to watch movies that are purely generated by AI that make them cry? Like, are people going to want to cry knowing that no human was involved?

01:12:32 Speaker_07
That it was just based on a large language model plus other AIs being trained on

01:12:38 Speaker_07
Certain data sets finding patterns and then producing a desired motion are people gonna want that for instance i mean people still buy handmade shoes right people still buy artwork produced by artists people still.

01:12:51 Speaker_07
Hey for many things that they could pay less for if they were willing to go to the lowest cost provider.

01:12:59 Speaker_07
So there is a market for that, and I think that in questions of taste and conversation and so on, most people are not going to be do-it-yourselfers with everything in their lives, acting as the direct interface with AI.

01:13:15 Speaker_07
What I could see is that you end up, let's just say, working in architectural design, and instead of having three employees, you have

01:13:26 Speaker_07
three really well-trained AIs that you pay $19 to $100 a month for that take the place of those employees and help you with various aspects of the job. I could see that.

01:13:37 Speaker_07
In the same way that you might use something like FreshBooks for accounting, right? And you'd be like, well, I'm not the best draftsman, but I can do this, this, and this.

01:13:44 Speaker_07
And my value is in interfacing with the client and figuring out these following things. And then these steps of the process are going to be well handled by an AI. So I think that that's entirely possible. But my uninformed perspective is that

01:14:01 Speaker_07
The magical skill, it's not magical, but the powerful skill in any rapidly changing world, which includes AI, it's not limited to that. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, there's the rate of change is just going parabolic in so many different fields.

01:14:15 Speaker_07
So it's not going to be limited to AI, is adaptability and confidence in your ability to trial and error and ultimately kind of figure it out. So I do think that A lot of this hinges also on how we think about worst case scenarios.

01:14:30 Speaker_07
So I don't know anything about your personal setup, but let's just say you have some savings, right? And you have like a methodical plan for handling costs associated with your daughter and you live in Canada.

01:14:41 Speaker_07
So unlike in the US, there may be some things covered by your fine government that we don't come across as easily here. then you may have more room to experiment than you give yourself credit for, if that makes sense, right?

01:14:55 Speaker_07
You may have more safety nets, and the worst case may not be that bad.

01:15:00 Speaker_07
So, for instance, you could do, and this is available on the blog, if you just go to tim.blog.com slash TED, I think there's the TED talk on fear setting, and then there's the text from the four-hour work week on fear setting, just to do that exercise.

01:15:15 Speaker_07
And what you may realize is, let's say worst case, AI eats architectural design. But you get three or four years of feeling really gratified by your work. You're learning a ton. You're interacting with people you really respect.

01:15:31 Speaker_07
And it's like we all deal with bullshit, right? It's not going to be all kittens and rainbows. But overall, you're like, wow, this is so much better than running that restaurant X number of years ago. And then AI eats it.

01:15:41 Speaker_07
And you're like, OK, now I have to start over. Would you regret having done it? Maybe not. It depends a lot on what the worst case looks like when you make it granular.

01:15:50 Speaker_07
And the only way you're going to figure that out, or at least the only way I can figure it out, is trying to put it on paper and figure out what are the worst things that could happen. How could I decrease the likelihood of those things happening?

01:16:04 Speaker_07
Next column, what could I do to get back on my feet? Okay, so let's say you try that and you're like, fuck, that didn't work. I need to figure out what's next, but in the meantime, I need to make some money.

01:16:13 Speaker_07
Could you do something in your current industry?

01:16:16 Speaker_07
Could you, worst case, you're like, oh, I really don't want to do it, but I'm going to consult for people who own restaurants for a period of time to make ends meet, and then I'll figure out my next move. Probably. Right?

01:16:28 Speaker_07
So I would say a place that might help you get unstuck, and this is true for me as well, is doing the fear-setting exercise and also realizing that very few moves are fatal. Like very, very, very few. So those are my thoughts on that.

01:16:45 Speaker_06
Awesome. Thanks so much.

01:16:47 Speaker_07
Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. All right, guys.

01:16:49 Speaker_07
Well, we've been going for a minute here, and it's time for me to go get some food since I had basically mixed nuts and sweet potato fries for my whole day of food, which is not going to necessarily help me live to be 150.

01:17:04 Speaker_07
But you know, we all have our off days. So I'm going to go try to get a proper meal and really nice to meet you all and spend time with you all and see some of you for not the first time in the case of a few folks who were here earlier.

01:17:17 Speaker_07
So have a wonderful evening and a great weekend and thanks for being part of the experiment. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday.

01:17:31 Speaker_07
Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday.

01:17:43 Speaker_07
Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things.

01:17:56 Speaker_07
It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

01:18:08 Speaker_07
And these strange, esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, Again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about.

01:18:22 Speaker_07
If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog slash friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog slash friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

01:18:34 Speaker_07
As many of you know, for the last few years, I've been sleeping on a Midnight Luxe mattress from today's sponsor, Helix Sleep. I also have one in the guest bedroom downstairs, and feedback from friends has always been fantastic.

01:18:46 Speaker_07
Kind of over the top, to be honest. I mean, they frequently say it's the best night of sleep they've had in ages. What kind of mattress is it? What do you do? What's the magic juju? It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever.

01:18:57 Speaker_07
I also recently had a chance to test the Helix Sunset Elite in a new guest bedroom, which I sometimes sleep in, and I picked it for its very soft but supportive feel to help with some lower back pain that I've had.

01:19:09 Speaker_07
The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional comfort while putting the right support in the right spots. It is made with five tailored foam layers, including a base layer with full perimeter zoned lumbar support right where I need it,

01:19:21 Speaker_07
and middle layers with premium foam and microcoils to create a soft contouring feel. Which also means if I feel like I want to sleep on my side, I can do that without worrying about other aches and pains I might create.

01:19:31 Speaker_07
And with a luxurious pillow top for pressure relief, I look forward to nestling into that bed every night that I use it. The best part, of course, is that it helps me wake up feeling fully rested with a back that feels supple instead of stiff.

01:19:45 Speaker_07
That is the name of the game for me these days. Helix offers a 100-night sleep trial, fast free shipping, and a 15-year warranty. So check it all out. Get 25% off on all mattress orders plus two free pillows by going to helixsleep.com slash Tim.

01:20:02 Speaker_07
That's helixsleep.com slash Tim for 25% off on all mattress orders plus two free pillows. The following quote is from one of the most legendary entrepreneurs and investors in Silicon Valley, and here it goes.

01:20:18 Speaker_07
This team executes at a level you rarely see even among the best technology companies, end quote. That is from Peter Thiel about today's sponsor, Ramp. I've been hearing about these guys everywhere and there are good reasons for it.

01:20:31 Speaker_07
Ramp is corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. In fact, they're already doing that across the board.

01:20:40 Speaker_07
Ramp has already saved more than 25,000 customers, including other podcast sponsors like Shopify and Eight Sleep, more than 10 million hours and more than $1 billion through better financial management of their corporate spending.

01:20:53 Speaker_07
With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting, allowing you to close your books eight times faster on average.

01:21:03 Speaker_07
Your employees will no longer spend hours upon hours submitting expense reports. I mean, within companies, fast-growing startups, or otherwise, a lot of employees spend half their time, it seems, trying to get all this stuff together. No more.

01:21:15 Speaker_07
RAMP saves you time and money. You can get started, issue virtual and physical cards, and start making payments in less than 15 minutes, whether you have five employees or 5,000 employees. They've streamlined everything.

01:21:28 Speaker_07
And businesses that use RAMP save an average of 5% in the first year. And now you can get $250 when you join RAMP. Just go to ramp.com slash tim. All spelled out, that's ramp.com slash tim. R-A-M-P dot com slash tim.

01:21:45 Speaker_07
Cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply.