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Episode: 684:The Balancing Act of Career and Motherhood with Tamron Hall

Author: Three Percent Chance
Duration: 00:40:25

Episode Shownotes

In this episode of The Rachel Hollis Podcast, two-time Emmy Award-winning talk show host, journalist, and author Tamron Hall shares her extraordinary journey balancing motherhood, career, and personal growth. Rachel and Tamron discuss their experiences as working mothers, the challenges of IVF, and when failure leads to success. Together they

explore the emotional resilience required to navigate setbacks, launch successful projects, and find joy in unexpected places. Tamron brings hilarity and wisdom from her live TV adventures and recounts the formation of a unique friendship that led to her newest book, A Confident Cook: Recipes for Joyous, No-Pressure, Fun in the Kitchen, available everywhere books are sold. This episode is rich with heartfelt stories, professional insights, and the importance of self-advocacy and leadership.Pre-order your audiobook of ‘What if YOU Are the Answer’ narrated by Rachel on Audible today! You can also pre-order your e-book or hard copy at Amazon, Barnes & Noble (they have signed copies!), Books-A-Millon, Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold!It's Time for Last 90 Days! Get the Start Today Journal - https://starttoday.com/products/start-today-journal00:00 Introduction and Vision for the Show01:33 Motherhood and Pandemic Parenting03:10 Balancing Career and Parenthood07:39 IVF Journey and Personal Struggles13:02 Starting the Talk Show17:14 Navigating Challenges and Leadership23:05 Navigating Personal and Professional Growth24:21 Proving Oneself in the Industry24:49 Adapting to Challenges and Successes26:23 Embracing the Role of a Mentor28:38 The Story Behind the Cookbook30:54 Cooking Adventures and Family Traditions35:43 Live TV Mishaps and Memorable Moments38:41 Where to Find the Cookbook40:01 Final Thoughts and Gratitude Sign up for Rachel’s weekly email: https://msrachelhollis.com/insider/Watch the podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/RachelHollisMotivation/videosFollow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MsRachelHollis/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices.

Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_03
I think that was the biggest learning curve for me, not looking at ratings. And it wasn't even the content, because I knew what the content was going to be. I knew I wanted a show that felt like Friends.

00:00:12 Speaker_03
I knew I wanted a show where we could laugh together, cry together. We could do a cooking segment one day, and then romance scams the next, and then some crime drama. I knew I wanted all the things that me and my friends talk about all day long.

00:00:25 Speaker_03
the leadership part of it, and I ended up going to a leadership coach, you know, voluntarily, because I wanted to really finesse not just how people received me, but how I was receiving myself.

00:00:37 Speaker_03
Because for a minute, I was like, I know I'm not a mean person. I know I'm not a bad person.

00:00:43 Speaker_03
And I think we should be comfortable saying, you know, you're like, because if you think you are a mean person, you should be able to confidently say, I know I'm not a bad person. And I knew that, but I also,

00:00:52 Speaker_03
knew I had been a worker bee and not the mom and the mom of the operation.

00:01:00 Speaker_01
Hi, I'm Rachel. And in this show, we talk about everything. Life and work, health and healing, relationships with others and with ourself. These are stories for the seekers. These are conversations for the curious. This is the Rachel Hollis podcast.

00:01:33 Speaker_01
I mean, I would love to start if it's cool, because we're talking about being mamas right now. And I know that was an incredible journey for you to go on, just watching from the outside on social media. How old is your son now?

00:01:44 Speaker_03
My son is five. He's in kindergarten.

00:01:47 Speaker_01
That feels so wild. Just as a fan, I remember when you had him. I remember all of those first posts. How have these five years been?

00:01:57 Speaker_03
Oh my gosh, it's been the most beautiful experience I can imagine. Obviously, my son is what people refer to as those pandemic kids who were locked in. So there are things that I wonder about and things that

00:02:13 Speaker_03
I think about a lot knowing that his journey, like the children born around that time and during that time, is so different than we imagined.

00:02:20 Speaker_03
But then I also see he's in kindergarten with his friends and they don't even know what the word pandemic or quarantine or washing our groceries even means, right? So it's just been fantastic. It's been illuminating. It's been frustrating.

00:02:36 Speaker_03
It's been joyous. It's been real. I now understand my mom more than ever before.

00:02:42 Speaker_03
You know, it's so funny, this morning, we're getting ready for school, because I leave out right at the time that he's getting up, so I'm able to say good morning, which is such a luxury.

00:02:51 Speaker_03
I recognize, as working parents, to be able to have those moments. But we got up this morning, and he was yawning, and he goes, that's my body telling me I need to stay in bed, because we talk a lot about social emotions and how your body's feeling.

00:03:03 Speaker_03
I was like, oh, is that what your body's telling you? Well, your body should tell you to go to bed earlier next time.

00:03:07 Speaker_01
Exactly. These funny moments like that. Speaking of being a working parent, you had established yourself as a journalist for so long before you became a working parent.

00:03:18 Speaker_01
What was it like to fit... I mean, I know you're saying you had him during the pandemic, so maybe it was a little bit different because maybe you were at home, but what was that like fitting him into a schedule that you had really down?

00:03:29 Speaker_03
Our show started in 2019. The talk show started in 2019. My son was born in 2019. I was actually looking at pictures, you know, they like five years ago today.

00:03:37 Speaker_03
And I think from the very beginning, I went into this beast mode to quote Marshawn Lynch, because I have never been unemployed in my life. I've worked since I was 14 years old.

00:03:49 Speaker_03
Now I was unemployed trying to start up this show, which is really like a mom and pop. People don't realize that in syndicated TV, This is like a mom and pop shop. You know, I'm backed by Disney.

00:03:59 Speaker_03
Disney finances my show, but it airs on different networks. It airs in different station groups. So I'm starting essentially a mom and pop or a mom and mom while my son was just born.

00:04:10 Speaker_03
And it's so crazy when I look back at the timeline of my son being born in April on our show.

00:04:17 Speaker_03
starting in September and during, from April to September, I'm on the road promoting the show, which is part of the reason that I didn't even breastfeed, because I remember getting stuck somewhere in a bad flight.

00:04:28 Speaker_03
And it freaked me out because I didn't have enough milk stored. And his pediatrician at the time said, listen, I know you want to do this, and that's great.

00:04:36 Speaker_03
But the reality is, with you traveling and not producing enough milk, you have a situation where if you get sick or you don't get back in time, your kid doesn't eat. And you don't need that added pressure with starting this show, right?

00:04:50 Speaker_03
It's like all of those things were happening in that short span of time. I look at it in this, this jumpstart way. But as I say that, I also am very proud that I had a mom who, not by plan, but by life, ended up a single mom.

00:05:09 Speaker_03
and she worked her tail off and got up in the morning and would transport me to my aunt's house, which was closer to the Catholic school she wanted me to go to.

00:05:19 Speaker_03
And then she'd head off to work and work a day job and a night job and this group of family members who helped her raise me. So, you know, this journey of juggling is not unique to each individual, it's unique how we do it, right?

00:05:34 Speaker_03
And the people around us. I remember the first season of the show, I struggled for a very quick second with acknowledging that I had a nanny who lives with us.

00:05:44 Speaker_03
So we lived with us at the time because I didn't want people to think, oh gosh, look at her. She waited all these years to have a kid and she don't even want to take care of another celebrity with a baby they don't want. You know how folks are.

00:05:54 Speaker_03
But I recognized and what my mom said, she goes, well, I think everyone's had a nanny. It's called daycare. I was like, well, that's a good point.

00:06:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, or having family around you that can help.

00:06:04 Speaker_03
And that's the thing. My relatives are over 2,000 miles away from me. My husband's family, they're in Florida. So we didn't have an immediate family member like my mom did to come in and help us. And some people don't have extended family at all.

00:06:18 Speaker_03
And they do need daycare. When I was a reporter, I think, in Chicago many years ago in the 90s, I remember doing this. And I think about these things now, to be honest with you, Rachel. they had an overnight daycare. It was the first of its kind.

00:06:31 Speaker_03
It opened in Chicago, where they really started at 7 p.m. at night, because there were so many parents who were shift workers, 7 to 11, you know, or whatever. And so, this first-of-its-kind daycare.

00:06:43 Speaker_03
And I remember vividly, because I was the consumer reporter at the time. And now, looking at the parent journey, now you think, like, wow, that's true.

00:06:51 Speaker_03
What if you are single, or what if you're both parents, but they both work late-night shifts, and you don't have... a person that can keep your kid or help out. All of these things rush through my mind.

00:07:03 Speaker_03
To go to the core of what you asked me with my very, very long answer, for me, I'm a very cerebral person and I absorb and recognize these unique and different ways that we make it work.

00:07:22 Speaker_03
And I love hearing those stories from people, whether it's on my talk show or we've been touring with this cookbook. My favorite pastime is listening to how other people do it. I love it.

00:07:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, you're like, what, tell me everything.

00:07:35 Speaker_03
Tell me everything, tell me everything.

00:07:37 Speaker_01
I don't think that I realized, you said, you know, unemployed. I didn't realize that there was a time span in between the two of you. Two years. And I did not know that.

00:07:46 Speaker_03
That's how I was able to go through the IVF rounds because now, you know, while I'm able to do, you know, this mom thing or this parent thing with the show and getting settled in, I'll tell you, I don't know how I would have been able to do the IVF.

00:07:59 Speaker_03
And so all praise to people who go through it and still go to work and pretend that they didn't get up at 6 a.m.

00:08:05 Speaker_03
to get blood work, to get, you know, we have a show coming up on, which we've done every season, different topics of fertility journey, but one in particular, this young woman is freezing her eggs, and I really wanted to do that topic.

00:08:16 Speaker_03
And I've done it, but not in such a detailed way as we're doing it this time. People think, oh, I'll freeze my eggs, as if you go in and it's like a refrigerator. You have to go through IVF. You go through around, except for the actual,

00:08:29 Speaker_03
fertilization and, you know, transfer of that egg. And you are on medicines. You are getting your blood work done. All of these things. And your hormones are totally whacked out.

00:08:40 Speaker_03
So I said, you know, we have a woman, a lovely young woman who's been chronicling her freezing eggs to give a real life, not to scare you, but a real view, right?

00:08:49 Speaker_03
And so for me, going through IVF, you know, I say that very, you know, easy and casually now, but I don't know. I vividly remember

00:08:58 Speaker_03
You know, to the point where even Stephen, when we first started out, because I'd have to go in for blood work early, my husband would get up in the morning and say, do you want me to go with you? And first he started with me. It's all cute.

00:09:08 Speaker_03
Then he slowly started getting out of bed. And he's like, well, do you want me to go? And you know, when they say, do you want me to go? I'm like, it's cool.

00:09:16 Speaker_03
And honestly, at first I was like, yeah, we're in this together, except for I'm getting a needle. And then I started to really enjoy and I'd have to leave the house. My doctor wanted me to come in a bit early for my privacy.

00:09:30 Speaker_03
And so I would get up and get my coffee and get in an Uber because I live in New York and go by myself. And there were days I just started bawling, you know, like. Is this what I really want to keep trying to do? Or hopeful tears some days.

00:09:43 Speaker_03
But I don't think, and you're the first person I've ever even told this to, I am not certain that I would have done this if I were in the throes of work. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I would have done it.

00:09:55 Speaker_01
Wow. Isn't it funny how it's like these moments that we go through, and at the time, it feels so impossible. And then in retrospect, you're like, but God, would I have done this thing if it hadn't been in this exact situation?

00:10:10 Speaker_03
I've never... So in private, I have phrased it this way. I've never phrased it this way. Getting fired got me my child. A lot of people, and when I've talked about it publicly, I say the show is the result of that.

00:10:27 Speaker_03
But in private, I have told my friends it is why I'm a parent. I don't think for me, and that's why I... give a hug to anybody who's going through it.

00:10:38 Speaker_03
I don't know if I could have done the IVF, and I have friends who have, and maybe I'm, I won't say I'm not that strong because strength manifests in different ways, but I don't know if that would have been the path for me.

00:10:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah, I can't, I actually can't imagine.

00:10:54 Speaker_01
I have so many girlfriends who have walked through it and just watching them, some of them on this journey for years, some of them still on the journey and how brutal, just what it does to your hormones and how emotional you are, exhausted.

00:11:09 Speaker_01
Yeah, your body, I mean, it's not, you know. Oh, I can't imagine that being on camera and having to get up as early as you do, just, oh, it would be so hard.

00:11:20 Speaker_03
Speaking of parenthood, this is how real our conversation is. Texting about Taekwondo. No, it's true. Then the progesterone alone, it's an oil and it sits in your skin. I had to take the shots.

00:11:36 Speaker_03
There's another way you could do it, but I had to take the shots because my doctor felt like that's how it gets in faster. But it's oil and it would leave these little knots and it was so painful. I remember my husband even one day,

00:11:48 Speaker_03
giving me the progesterone shot. And he's like sobbing, because you're pushing through muscle of your backside. And it was like, oh, my gosh. And then in the case of many folks, it doesn't work multiple times. So it's just all of these things.

00:12:04 Speaker_03
But I say that to say it is a path that led me to parenthood and many, many others. And I think that that's the beauty that comes out of it. And that's why when I travel and women come up to me and they say, I'm so inspired by your journey.

00:12:21 Speaker_03
I try not to, I don't want to sugar coat it, as they say, you know, but I also don't want to paint that it's not challenging, right?

00:12:30 Speaker_03
I want to acknowledge that because if you give that challenge acknowledgement, it prepares your soul, it prepares you for it.

00:12:36 Speaker_01
Yeah. So in that time period, I mean, you're going through this incredible journey, but also I imagine that that also feels like, well, gosh, what comes next, right?

00:12:50 Speaker_01
Just thinking of like identity and how we see ourselves and you were on the show for so long. Now it's not there. Were you the impetus for starting the talk show or how did that come to be? Yeah.

00:13:02 Speaker_03
So honestly, when I started to... I thought I was going to be back on another news program in a day or so. I mean, because there was a great amount of fan outrage, which generally you think speaks to the people who the powers that be.

00:13:15 Speaker_03
So I didn't expect to go back to that job. But I thought, oh, well, you know, news directors and, you know, people who own stations, I'll see I've got fans and these people respect the work that I do. Early on, a lot of the offers were

00:13:30 Speaker_03
a great reality check in, A, how people see women of a certain age as disposable. I was 48. I don't know if it was because I was single or a woman of color, how people came in, like, with pennies, essentially, compared to what men were being offered.

00:13:47 Speaker_03
And or really... I've been doing it for 20 years. I was an Edward R. Murrow winner at that time, an Emmy-nominated reporter and winner at that time. And... the offers were as if I was starting out. And I don't say that from a place of ego.

00:14:04 Speaker_03
I say that from a place of, I'm sure many women recognize that. You're like, well, what was I working for? What was it all for? And so I had to figure out how to take control of my destiny. I wasn't quite sure what that looked like.

00:14:17 Speaker_03
And I've always been a TV junkie. I can tell you the TV lineup since I was seven years old, everything I watched. I was a latchkey kid. For those who don't know, I have to Google it. But I've always been a consumer of TV.

00:14:27 Speaker_03
I think that I am a much stronger producer than people probably know. I executive produce my show. I write my show. I'm intimately involved in my show. and in the books that I write. And so I was like, okay, people don't know this about me.

00:14:40 Speaker_03
Let me get confident enough to sell these ideas in these meetings. Couldn't get meetings, right? Nobody wants to meet with, you know, the one. I'm thinking, wait, you didn't want to meet with me? A lot of guys didn't value that.

00:14:49 Speaker_03
And I say guys, because most of them were guys. And then my agent at the time called me and said Harvey Weinstein wanted to meet with me. And I'd never met Harvey Weinstein.

00:15:00 Speaker_03
I know Harvey Weinstein from TV and, you know, people would, on Oscars and all that, but I never met him. And I thought, oh, wow, this is a big deal. Harbor Line's team wants to meet with us, yeah.

00:15:11 Speaker_01
If you've listened to this show for any time at all, you've probably heard me reference New Year's. I love a new year. I did the last 90 days challenge as a way to build up to the new year.

00:15:24 Speaker_01
I love ending the year with a calendar audit so that I can set up my year on January 1st for all of the intentions that I have to level up. I am such a dork about it. It's my favorite, which is why I picked the new year to launch my brand new book.

00:15:41 Speaker_01
It's called, What If You Are The Answer? And it is a framework to start your new year with.

00:15:48 Speaker_01
26 different questions that when I heard them for the first time, read them in a book, a friend asked them of me, the question was so powerful that it changed my perspective, that it forced me to confront hard truths or allowed me to level up

00:16:07 Speaker_01
on my level up. So if you are part of this community, I want you to be the first to know, What If You Are The Answer comes out January 7th. We have the most incredible pre-order gift, which we are launching November 1st.

00:16:21 Speaker_01
I promise to tell you more about it soon.

00:16:23 Speaker_01
But in the meantime, if you want to pre-order your book now, or if you want to reserve a signed copy, head over to the link in the show notes and check out the new book, the new book cover, and what it's all about. Thanks for reading.

00:16:41 Speaker_03
my agents went with me to Harvey Weinstein's office in Tribeca, where he and his team had a whole treatment for the Tamron Hall show. And they've done all of this research of what they said was the absence of, that is my dog, if you hear my dog.

00:16:54 Speaker_01
No worries, mine will probably start barking in a minute.

00:16:57 Speaker_03
The absence of a true talk show, right? That at the time, everything was variety, which was great, and Ellen was succeeding and fun, but there was not a true conversation happening on daytime. And this is where it would be.

00:17:10 Speaker_03
We start out with Harvey as the co-executive producer of the show. And then, as you know, he was charged and ultimately convicted. But prior to the conviction, there were these charges, and I had to go out on my own.

00:17:24 Speaker_03
And what I did was something, again, that for women who are listening, and anybody's listening, you have to determine if you're going to take control of your destiny. And I knew I'd not done anything wrong.

00:17:33 Speaker_03
I'd never even been alone in a room with Harvey Weinstein. But I wasn't going to let that stain or sully my name.

00:17:38 Speaker_03
But I also was going to go into the environment and say very clearly to the people that had already met with us, and we, by the time Harvey partnered with me, the bigwigs were opening their doors because they all knew Harvey as this powerful figure.

00:17:51 Speaker_03
I called all of those people back. And I said, you know what? You met with me with him. Meet with me with me. And so I don't know if through shame, through guilt or what, they did. And then I started to finesse my pitch, right?

00:18:06 Speaker_03
I started to be able to advocate for myself. And by the time Disney said they were interested in meeting, I'm like, great. And luckily, I go in with my notes. I've scripted out what the show looks like.

00:18:17 Speaker_03
I've now, even, I'm a terrible drawer, and I drew out the set, and I knew how close I even wanted the table to my legs. And I gave old episodes of Mike Douglas and Dinah Shore, and they all thought I was gonna come in and just only quote Oprah.

00:18:30 Speaker_03
And I'm like, no, well, she is obviously the queen. She is not the only ones who have done it, and there are other elements. And I brought old episodes of when Yoko Ono and John Lennon co-hosted with Mike Douglas.

00:18:43 Speaker_03
That's our dog coming and they were like, oh my goodness, you know, and so I was able to show that I'd done my homework. I'd done my research. I'd put in and so through that. I was able, I think, to impress them with the knowledge that I had.

00:18:58 Speaker_03
And, you know, they ask you things like, well, what show would you do today? And I'm like, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. They're like, oh, gosh, she's great. So we set sail that way, and I was lucky to have a partnership in Disney, Blue Chip brand.

00:19:09 Speaker_03
I felt that we were, I was a Blue Chip brand, and I felt that I represented the modern woman. And what I mean by modern is not working versus not. We're inside the home, meaning you're not going to define me. You're not going to determine my destiny.

00:19:26 Speaker_03
I'm not going to be a victim. I'm going to be a warrior for myself and an advocate for myself. And by the way, that's not easy. There are days I do feel like I've been the victim of circumstance, whether it's misogyny or racism, all these things.

00:19:40 Speaker_03
Of course, we all feel that way. But it's not the total sum of the journey that I choose for my life. And so I often say, if I'm looking at the roadblock, I don't see the road.

00:19:50 Speaker_03
Now, that doesn't mean I don't see the roadblock as a woman, as a woman of a certain age. I see it, but I'm not going to laser focus on it because I know past that is a road. Now, how do I get to it? And so that's what we did with the show.

00:20:02 Speaker_03
That's what I did, and I was lucky to have you know, team members who came along for the ride and six seasons.

00:20:08 Speaker_03
I have many of the employees who started with us, but some of them who didn't, that I felt like weren't a right fit for me and that the show wasn't a right fit. And that was another layer of taking control.

00:20:19 Speaker_03
No one wants to say to someone, you're not a right fit for the show. And then you have the extra burden of now you're a woman saying it. And now you are saying it to people who may have never had a woman boss in their life.

00:20:32 Speaker_03
And believe it or not, in 2024, People come in, they never had a leader.

00:20:38 Speaker_03
Because remember, even look at the construct of television news, which I'm so proud to have been a part of, the major networks are seeing their very first round of women who are presidents of the news division. Yeah, that's crazy.

00:20:51 Speaker_01
So a lot of these kids never even had anybody. Yeah, that's crazy. Well, and how different did it feel for you? I'm just guessing here. You went from being part of a show, like there's all of these people, there's all this, and then it's just you.

00:21:08 Speaker_01
It's your name. Did you have to pay more attention to things like ratings?

00:21:13 Speaker_03
Oh no, I'm finally settling. You know what, it's so funny you say that. The ratings part, that part, I'm like, that's going to bake itself out. It really was managing expectations.

00:21:24 Speaker_03
You know, women often in the workplace, women leaders are often seen as mother figures. They're often seen in this duplicitous, you know, like you're either mean or you're not, all these things. And even in the first season,

00:21:37 Speaker_03
I remember my mom, like, calling me one day because there was a tabloid that had written this article that, you know, I was this meanie. And my mom's like, can't you sue? Can't you fight back? And she's, like, sobbing.

00:21:46 Speaker_03
Because, you know, as any mom, she loves me. And she feels that, you know, one of the things my mom, you know, I just celebrated my 54th birthday. And she's like, you are, you know, the most loving person ever. And I'm like, oh, well, thank you.

00:21:57 Speaker_03
You're my mom. Thanks for thinking that, you know. She goes, no, no, no. Even if I was your mom, that's how I feel. And people will say it, you know. But all of a sudden, I'm not that person. You know, that was a learning curve, right?

00:22:07 Speaker_03
I just watched the Ellen DeGeneres special that she did, and it was so good.

00:22:13 Speaker_03
It was so good, and I could understand a lot of what she was saying, and also a lot of self-reflection, where she said, you know, she had snakes that would pop out and scare her. She was like, ooh, it sounds terrible when I think about it, you know?

00:22:24 Speaker_03
recognizing that your name is on it, which is a whole different dynamic.

00:22:27 Speaker_03
And so I, I think that was the biggest learning curve for me, not, you know, looking at ratings or it was, and it wasn't even the content, because I knew what the content was going to be. I knew I wanted a show that felt like friends.

00:22:41 Speaker_03
I knew I wanted a show where we could talk, we could laugh together, cry together. We could do a cooking segment one day, and then romance scams the next, and then some crime drama.

00:22:49 Speaker_03
I knew I wanted all the things that me and my friends talk about all day long.

00:22:53 Speaker_03
the leadership part of it, and I ended up going to a leadership coach, you know, voluntarily, because I wanted to really finesse not just how people received me, but how I was receiving myself.

00:23:06 Speaker_03
Because for a minute, I was like, I know I'm not a mean person. I know I'm not a bad person.

00:23:11 Speaker_03
And I think we should be comfortable saying, you know, you're like, because if you think you are me, you should be able to confidently say, I know I'm not a bad person.

00:23:18 Speaker_03
And I knew that, but I also knew I had been a worker bee and not the mom and the mom of the operation. So there were things that I had to change. You know, it was very hard to go from a person who

00:23:32 Speaker_03
had an open door policy, you could come into my office to a person saying, you have to schedule a meeting. My co-EP is often there when I have meetings because I have to be able to have somebody say, well, I was there. And that's not a distrust.

00:23:45 Speaker_03
It's just that's how business is done. And I had to really become much more of a business person versus a journalist. And so now I look at the budget, no, I look at the budget line by line, I'm like, wait a minute, how much do those flowers cost?

00:24:01 Speaker_03
And people don't get a chance to see that side, but I wasn't wired that way.

00:24:05 Speaker_01
Yeah. I mean, what I'm thinking of is just the shift that would have to happen from sort of just being, and I don't mean to say just because that sounds like too easy, like being in front of the camera to like being all the things.

00:24:21 Speaker_01
And not only that, but I imagine, I've never tried to have a syndicated talk show, but I imagine you have to prove yourself. Like you're not still here doing it all these seasons later. No, I have to prove myself. If you don't prove it, yeah.

00:24:33 Speaker_03
But lucky enough, I won the Emmy the first year, and I thought, oh, they'll see. I'm the first freshman to win it. And then I'm like, Emmy, and they're like, wonk, wonk. I'm like, wait, but on TV, y'all all say this matters. I have one in my hand.

00:24:47 Speaker_03
And it's like, wonk, wonk. The global pandemic happens. I literally do the show from my home. You talk about my show, the second season was shot entirely from my home in the basement.

00:24:58 Speaker_02
Wow.

00:24:58 Speaker_03
And I think they're going to see, and it's like, oh, well, everybody's doing that. Then I win the Emmy again and they're like, and I'm like, but I think that's also sometimes self-inflicted too, right?

00:25:10 Speaker_03
Because at the end of the day, whether someone comes in, gives me a pat on the back, that's not the point. We have this group of people called the TAMFAM, six seasons later, We're the second longest-running show in Disney history.

00:25:21 Speaker_03
Last year, I thought about ending. I was like, OK, we got five years. No one expected. Let me do some other things, the cookbook and this. And I just love it so much. I love the conversation. I love the curiosity. I love people. I love everything about it.

00:25:35 Speaker_03
I really do. And so for me, right now, I'm able to, at 54, show up, most times, as a parent I hope that I am. for a parent as well with this Bernadudo looking at me with her bad breath. I can smell it over here. She just ate a milk bone or something.

00:25:52 Speaker_03
And just laugh with friends. Lish, my co-author of our cookbook, we're going to cook tomorrow and I'm actually going to order the groceries after that. You know, I'm just learning to breathe.

00:26:04 Speaker_03
Things that probably would have had me all in knots five years ago don't. That doesn't mean I don't have a fire, because the fire in me burns hotter than any furnace. But I learn how to turn it down like a stove, right?

00:26:16 Speaker_03
You learn to turn it up, turn it down. So I'm in a good place, and I'm more comfortable than ever. I'll tell you, even with age, I don't know what 54 feels like.

00:26:27 Speaker_03
But one of the things I did struggle with, and again, you get me to talk to you about so many things I hadn't, when women or people would come to me and say, oh my God, they look at you like an oracle. And I was like, I'm still figuring it out.

00:26:39 Speaker_03
And only now do I recognize why young journalists or young women in business or guests on our show, they come to me and they seek this advice. And so I have, in the last year, really become much more comfortable with recognizing that I am a source.

00:26:59 Speaker_03
You know, I am. And I have been through some things. And I have lived a colorful life. And so I'm, not just because of my top, you know, that I'm on right now. And so I really, I'm now, I get it now.

00:27:13 Speaker_03
I get it when a young woman grabs my hand and she's in tears almost, because I was that when I was 27 and ran into Oprah and she, you know, I get it now. I get it. And it feels good. It feels good.

00:27:26 Speaker_01
I started Start Today in 2019 and the very first product that I made was the Start Today journal. So I would love to tell you all about the journal and why I believe in this product so much.

00:27:40 Speaker_01
I wanna tell you why hundreds of thousands of people believe in it too. I wanna tell you about the practice of the journal and that you can do it in any notebook you already have at home without buying a single thing.

00:27:52 Speaker_01
I wanna tell you all sorts of things But I won't. Instead, I'll let real customers tell you why they love it too. The gratitude is incredible, life-changing.

00:28:05 Speaker_00
It just makes me happier because I'm focused on the positive and not the negative. You really do seek it out, and it makes you happier, and it makes you probably better to the people around you.

00:28:16 Speaker_00
Waking up and doing the Start Today Journal is the first thing on my mind. And when I write things down, I feel so much more empowered to actually do them. It's the most honest place I get to write down exactly who I want to be 10 years from now.

00:28:30 Speaker_01
Begin your practice at StartToday.com. Well, where did the, you know, you talk about you're gonna cook tomorrow. Where did this cookbook come from? Where did all of the work that you're doing, and I'll also do it.

00:28:49 Speaker_03
It's so fun, you know, and I'm sure like you, at this point I have the great luxury of really only doing the things I want to do, right? Right now, that may not always be the case, but today, today. And so Lish, we met,

00:29:04 Speaker_03
when I was at the Today Show, and I forged a lot of great friendships. Savannah Guthrie is still a great friend. Willie Geist is still one. He's my brother from another mother, as we say.

00:29:13 Speaker_03
But this unexpected friendship with Liz, she was a part of the food styling team. And I say unexpected because you don't often cross-pollinate. You've seen these shows. It's like, the anchors are over there. You don't actually cross-pollinate.

00:29:24 Speaker_03
And I would come over to the kitchen area and grab whatever leftovers I could scam, because I'd run over to the MSNBC lot to do my show there, the studios there. And we just struck a conversation up after my father passed away.

00:29:36 Speaker_03
And my father was a phenomenal cook. And I, after he died, wanted to really send this love letter to him that I'm going to learn to cook. My mom is not a cook, and I wanted to cook a big holiday meal like my dad before the holidays.

00:29:50 Speaker_03
And Lish was like, anybody can cook. I'm like, no, because I can't. She's like, no. And we started talking, and then We became friends and she started to help me. That's my dog yawning. And my story, he's probably, she heard that a hundred times.

00:30:04 Speaker_03
Have you heard, did you read the book? I think the dog read the book, that's what she's saying. Cause we tell this in the book, how we became great friends.

00:30:10 Speaker_03
And then organically, probably about five, six years into our friendship, we were like, this is a great book, right? You know, this is a good story. So the book, while it's a list of phenomenal recipes,

00:30:24 Speaker_03
There's a story there, this kid from Wisconsin being lished, this kid from Texas, underdogs. I love the fact that we're the only cookbook with a black woman and a white woman on the cover.

00:30:35 Speaker_03
She's gay and married, you know, and all of these things that are so different about our lives, but yet through curiosity, through openness, through the ability to not see hierarchy in a workplace, and we become friends for life.

00:30:49 Speaker_03
And that's where this book really was born.

00:30:52 Speaker_01
Cool. And what are the recipes? Are you cooking like some of your dad's stuff?

00:30:56 Speaker_03
Oh, no, these are also, Lish is a like much sought after recipe tester. I mean, I'd like to say she's your favorite chef's favorite chef. And she's a James Beard award winning producer. All of these she created through conversations with me.

00:31:10 Speaker_03
So for example, our first like, you know, trip with family, we went to Antigua. I love whole fish. But the idea of preparing a whole fish was like, eh, you know, I don't want the eyeballs staring at me. So she was like, anyone can do a whole fish.

00:31:22 Speaker_03
So we have a beautiful grilled whole fish that you can do inside or out on a grill or in a grill pan with a great salsa verde that anyone can make. And then we walk you through it. We have granny's curry chicken. That is her granny-in-law love.

00:31:37 Speaker_03
you know, chicken salad. So there's a curry chicken salad that's really easy to make and it's beautiful and it's yummy and so it's born from a lot of places. We have a chapter called Low Key Lunch because I said, Lish, listen,

00:31:51 Speaker_03
more than ever, people are eating lunch from home, right? Because you're not working in the office anymore. And you're forced to either eat a bar, skip, maybe a smoothie, or order a delivery, and it's seven times what it costs in the restaurant.

00:32:05 Speaker_03
So we have a whole chapter on lovely, low-key lunches. But it's also, like I said, it's a story of friendship and family. So we have snacks. We have sweets. We have cocktails.

00:32:14 Speaker_03
We've got it all because I wanted it to feel like this refreshing Betty Crocker style book, where if you could pick it up at any time, there's something in it. I need a drink. You got a drink.

00:32:23 Speaker_03
We have alcohol drinks and non-alcohol, but kid-friendly and not kid-friendly, you know what I mean? And so it's great. And we take you breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So that's been the fun of it. But they're all recipes.

00:32:34 Speaker_03
And what I also love about it is at the end of most of the recipes is a Q&A of really what myself as a beginner was asking. So I'm like, is there a substitute for that? What do you mean I got to marinate? I am you, and I get to ask these questions that

00:32:50 Speaker_03
Most people don't get a chance to ask. We have like a trigger warning. This one day I went to go, it's a true story, I went to go make something, I don't know, and I've got to shop all the ingredients.

00:33:01 Speaker_03
And then I get home and it's like marinade overnight. I'm like, ah, like throwing the chicken across the wall. I was all prepared. So I said, in our cookbook, we have like warning overnight, right? Smart. That's right.

00:33:14 Speaker_03
So there's these fun little things like that. But, you know, I say, well, if I don't have pink peppercorn, what do I substitute with? She's like, nothing. Get pink peppercorn. So it's all of these like dialogues about

00:33:25 Speaker_03
cooking and how to stock your pantry. The first half of the book is really how to boil an egg, how to make an omelet, how to sear a steak, what to season, salt the water for the pasta. What do they really mean by that? Is it a teeny pinch?

00:33:38 Speaker_03
What is a pinch? So we take you from the most basic all the way up to things that you're going to look and say, oh, gosh, I made that. And it's for a beginner cook or someone who's a great cook looking for new recipes.

00:33:49 Speaker_03
And that's where Lish's phenomenal recipe testing history comes into play.

00:33:54 Speaker_01
Have you been cooking these on the show?

00:33:56 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just actually just taped our Thanksgiving show and we've cooked several times and I probably cook. So last night I didn't cook from the cookbook because I've cooked everything in our cookbook by 60 times.

00:34:07 Speaker_03
But last night I cooked a New York Times garlicky shrimp tacos. Every Tuesday is Taco Tuesday in our home.

00:34:14 Speaker_01
Nice.

00:34:14 Speaker_03
My child isn't because my child, he has a Taco Tuesday shirt. He comes home from school. He wears a uniform. He comes home from school, changes, and puts his Taco Tuesday shirt on. It's like, what's up, Taco Tuesday? I'm like, okay.

00:34:27 Speaker_03
So he eats middle school tacos.

00:34:30 Speaker_01
I love, from New York Times? New Times, that's what he eats. I love those tacos.

00:34:34 Speaker_03
Every Tuesday, my child, with a little less of the chili powder and paprika.

00:34:38 Speaker_01
Yes. It's so good, though. This is my favorite app. I'm not even kidding.

00:34:42 Speaker_03
Me too. We just had Eric Kim on my show, because he's a great friend. Oh, cool. So what I do is I make the middle school tacos for him. And then his meat, I'll take and rinse it off. And that takes out some of the flavor. And he eats, he likes flavorful.

00:34:55 Speaker_03
He's a very savory person, savory oriented person. And he has middle school tacos. And then every, I have to switch it up. So he and my husband eat middle school tacos, even with the spicy version of it. Moses will eat the mild.

00:35:06 Speaker_03
And then I'm like, I need something else. the week before I made the cauliflower tacos, and then this week was the garlicky shrimp, which is a New York Times recipe, tacos. So that's our idea.

00:35:17 Speaker_01
Does he like the book, Dragons Love Tacos?

00:35:20 Speaker_03
He adores it. It's the best.

00:35:23 Speaker_01
It's the best. It's so cute.

00:35:24 Speaker_03
He was reading in his school, and he came back, and he was like, and then I was like, what are you talking about? And then we had a curriculum night at the school, and I saw the book, and I was like, oh, that's the book he's talking about.

00:35:33 Speaker_03
That's the book, yeah. So I bought that book. But he's serious about his Taco Tuesday. God forbid we're traveling on a Tuesday because we're going to have to stop and get talking somewhere.

00:35:44 Speaker_01
I'm curious in all these years of doing, you've done cooking segments and conversations, interviews, like all the stuff that you've done on air, thinking specifically in the cooking space, have you ever been inside of a segment that just went

00:35:57 Speaker_01
horribly awry, like something just went so off and you have three minutes to finish the segment. I mean, I'm sure you've got all the stories.

00:36:06 Speaker_03
No, I've had guests who literally stopped talking where you're like, So they either get nervous or they are, you know, a challenging interview. Like, I love Robert De Niro. He's a fantastic person.

00:36:20 Speaker_03
And he actually recommended the preschool that my kid went to, and it was booked. And he goes, I'll call. I'm like, oh, thanks, Paul.

00:36:27 Speaker_02
Oh, thank you.

00:36:28 Speaker_03
He goes, like, OK, don't get that every day. I was like, that's going to be in my kid's journal. But he is a much more shy person than most people would know. And I remember the first time interviewing him, and I was like, One word, just say hi.

00:36:44 Speaker_03
You can talk. But yeah, we did a cooking segment the other day and you were supposed to switch out to a heavy cream that was already prepared. We have it going and the audience is there and I'm like, Where's the cream? Where is it at?

00:36:59 Speaker_03
You know, missing items. But, you know, that's the fun of it. And we do three live shows and two tape shows a week. And I love the live shows because I tell people, it's in the wind now, nothing you can do.

00:37:11 Speaker_03
You know, the tape shows, we can go back and fix it and you don't know what happened. I cut my teeth on live TV being a reporter out in the field. But oh, gosh, I've had guests not show up. We had Macy Gray recently on, and Macy's luggage got lost.

00:37:28 Speaker_03
I've had two guests. The first season, Fantasia's clothes got lost or she had to wear something of mine, and Macy Gray's luggage got lost. All she had was what she had on, and that wasn't what she was planning, and the team had to run out.

00:37:43 Speaker_03
cause the taping to go later.

00:37:45 Speaker_03
We've had people, Gayle King, we had her on celebrating her SI swimsuit edition, but she had to leave from CBS Studios to come to my show, which was Live, and we're literally on the phone like, what street are you turning on? Get out and run.

00:38:01 Speaker_03
It's like, come on in, because it was a live show. So all kinds of wacky things happened. It was so fun. But it actually, it's nerve wracking for the team and me when it's happening. But then when you take a step back, you're like, that's life, right?

00:38:16 Speaker_03
That's what makes life cool. So whether it's work or an unexpected romance that comes into your life or an unexpected journey of parenthood, in the moment, these things feel so big.

00:38:27 Speaker_03
And then you step, you're like, life is a freaking funny thing, isn't it? You know what I mean? You can plan it all day long. And it just, my friend Debbie Smith says, life be life. And there's nothing you can do. And I love that.

00:38:39 Speaker_01
I love that. Yeah. So for the guests who are listening to this conversation and they want to check out the cookbook, where can they find it?

00:38:47 Speaker_03
You can buy it wherever books are sold. You can buy it online. You can go to your independent local bookstore. We've had a great time. We were in Charleston at the Blue Bicycle Bookstore. And we've had fun going to, there's Brave and Kind in Atlanta.

00:39:02 Speaker_03
So we've really enjoyed meeting a lot of the small independent bookstores because we forget. And a lot of them are women owned, to be quite honest with you, which I love. A lot of them are. So wherever you get your books, it's available.

00:39:13 Speaker_03
79 unforgettable recipes, whether you're just starting out or you're a seasoned cook, seasoned, no pun intended, you'll find something fun. But I think more than the recipes, we wanted it also because we're both into fashion.

00:39:25 Speaker_03
So we've beautiful pictures. So it could be a coffee table book if you're not ready to jump in. But it's a book built on friendship. And I think in this world where we all at different times can feel so alone.

00:39:38 Speaker_03
And Lord knows I've been in a room with 100 people and felt like I was alone. We wanted you to see through this lens of two people how there are good people, more good people than bad. And there are always people who want to partner on this journey.

00:39:54 Speaker_03
And sometimes it takes us to be courageous enough just to say hi. And that's really how we started. And that's where the book is.

00:40:01 Speaker_01
Aw, so cool. Tamron, thank you so much for the time. Thank you for talking to us today.

00:40:05 Speaker_03
Oh yes, this has been an honor.

00:40:11 Speaker_01
The Rachel Hollis Podcast is produced by me, Rachel Hollis. It's edited by Andrew Weller and Jack Noble.