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Episode: 4.51 - Moroni 10, Part 2 - Moroni's Final Words

Author: Lili Anderson
Duration: 00:45:51

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Full Transcript

00:00:04 Speaker_00
Hi, this is Lili De Hoyos Anderson, and you're listening to Tues in Glory. This is part two of Moroni 10. I'm going to take a minute and share that other current event that I skipped in part one.

00:00:18 Speaker_00
I almost skipped it completely, but I thought, no, it's something I want to share. So this was a post by Julie Hanks. I think she's on Instagram, but I can't be sure, but I'm guessing it was one of her Instagram posts.

00:00:32 Speaker_00
And she has a picture of herself with these words written, I have a big favor, and she puts big, in-capital letters, to ask you, my friends, if my work

00:00:44 Speaker_00
has impacted your relationships with the church or your family relationships in a positive way, would you be willing to email a letter of support that I can forward to my leaders? You see what she's saying here.

00:00:59 Speaker_00
If I've had a positive effect on your relationship with the church or with your family relationships, will you send an email with a letter of support that I can forward to my leaders? Now, what do you think that means?

00:01:14 Speaker_00
It sounds to me like her leaders have talked to her about the impact that she has had on the membership of the church, and I'm sure they did not mention it in a positive way.

00:01:26 Speaker_00
Because otherwise, why is she asking for people to say, oh, I need you to write in and say how much I've helped you with your relationship with the church, or with your family relationships. Now, brothers and sisters, I am not Julie Hanks' judge.

00:01:42 Speaker_00
Now, I do believe we make intermediate judgments, as we've talked about many times on this podcast, temporal judgments, not condemnations.

00:01:53 Speaker_00
God and Christ are the final judges, and all of us will be judged with both justice, because mercy can't rob justice, and then there will be mercy that enacts sufficiently to not leave any of us in hell.

00:02:09 Speaker_00
And some of us will be in, well, we will all be in the kingdom that we have desired and that has been manifest through our behaviors. and that the grace of Christ carries us the rest of the distance towards.

00:02:25 Speaker_00
So, at any rate, it sounds like she's being questioned by church leaders. Somebody is doing something. And frankly, over the while that she's been active, I've heard from many of you

00:02:40 Speaker_00
personally, from clients as well, but from many of you listeners, that it's just the opposite.

00:02:46 Speaker_00
I've had so many who have told me that their daughters, particularly daughters or daughters-in-laws and granddaughters, have stopped wearing their garments, started dressing immodestly, have left the church, some of them, or lost their testimonies, and they attribute that to, at least in part,

00:03:05 Speaker_00
to there having been listeners of Julie Hanks, or followers of Julie Hanks. Now, that's tragic, brothers and sisters. It's tragic that she has had that kind of influence and has done that kind of damage.

00:03:22 Speaker_00
Again, the Lord judge between me and thee, but it seems to me like something is happening that is causing her to reach out and ask for these endorsements, basically, from some of her listeners. I wonder what that will yield.

00:03:37 Speaker_00
Now, it made me think of Alma 30, verses 58 and 60. And I guess this is just from the last verse, and this is just about Korihor, remember, who is famous and popular and making money from his preaching as an antichrist.

00:04:02 Speaker_00
And then at the end, that he is struck dumb, he becomes a beggar, and he's eventually trampled down by a group of people and dies.

00:04:15 Speaker_00
And the comment that Mormon the editor makes, and remember that one of the characteristics of Mormon's commentary is that he uses this phrase, and thus we see.

00:04:23 Speaker_00
And any time in the Book of Mormon that we see that phrase, we can know that Mormon is making a summary statement or a comment on the story that he has just included. So, here it is from Alma 30,

00:04:46 Speaker_00
So, when we put our eggs in that basket, when we serve the adversary, when we don't serve Christ, when we do not build the cause of the kingdom, particularly if we have light and truth in our lives, because where much is given, much is required.

00:05:01 Speaker_00
Now, again, I don't know all the particulars about Julie Hanks, but I do know that she has borne a lot of fruit from her work that has not helped strengthen the membership, and that has weakened a lot of women

00:05:18 Speaker_00
and their attachment to the truth and to the covenant path, and that is a tragedy.

00:05:23 Speaker_00
At any rate, this was also on a Paul Anderson, a different post that he did on his Book of Mormon study notes, but he wasn't talking about Julie Hanks in particular, but he did make this statement that I think is relevant right now.

00:05:39 Speaker_00
You can choose to follow the devil, but you can't trust the devil to reward your loyalty. I think that's really well put. You can choose to follow him, but don't trust him to reward your loyalty.

00:05:52 Speaker_00
Satan was quite content to let Korohor spread false doctrines and encourage sinful behavior as long as it was working. But when his popularity faltered, the devil was not there to help. Anyway, there you go.

00:06:09 Speaker_00
This was the good news I mentioned in part one and I didn't get to, but here's a little good news moment. You're starting with a very weird car commercial for, and this is how they pronounce it in Britain, right? Jaguar. The car, the Jaguar car.

00:06:25 Speaker_00
It's a beautiful car. Honestly, even as a young girl, I really loved the look of Jaguars. I mean, I didn't always call them correctly, but I think they're just beautiful cars. And I've kept that awareness throughout the years.

00:06:39 Speaker_00
I mean, I noticed them on the road or in parking lots even sometimes. I just think they're, Almost all the models are just beautiful in my eyes, but they came out with a commercial recently that has been panned.

00:06:54 Speaker_00
Thankfully, it was so bizarre where it had all these people in these solid color outfits, but they were like transgender outfits. I mean, obviously the man and he's got a weird dress and they wear weird shapes and weird hats.

00:07:06 Speaker_00
And I don't even remember, I didn't watch it more than once, but it was

00:07:10 Speaker_00
Anyway, the idea was like, sort of like, don't ever repeat anything, or don't imitate, or I can't remember what the tagline was, but it was basically saying that you should be unique and whatever. And I thought, how ironic.

00:07:22 Speaker_00
This isn't unique these days. This is a big deal. This whole weird identity thing is now getting to be so trite in a way that it's weird that they think this is going to be, like, so nouveau and

00:07:36 Speaker_00
avant-garde but the point is it was bizarre and there is no car in the commercial so it doesn't even really advertise what the company makes. But the reason I mention it is because at the same time Volvo came out with a really sweet ad. It's sweet.

00:07:59 Speaker_00
I mean, honestly, if you have time, look it up. It's, I don't know exactly what you would search, but it would be something along the lines of Volvo's ad on an

00:08:09 Speaker_00
father who hears his wife is pregnant, or, you know, on an expectant father, because that's how it starts.

00:08:18 Speaker_00
And it doesn't even get to the car until the very end, but it's this sweet, sweet ad, I think it's like three and a half minutes long, that's sweet about how he hears that his wife is expecting, so happy, And then his mother calls.

00:08:33 Speaker_00
So he's on the phone with his mother anticipating, wanting to be there for his child that he thinks will probably be a girl. And so they kind of show his thoughts about her growing up and all these different times that he wants to be there for her.

00:08:50 Speaker_00
And then at the end, there's an incident with the car, and it talks about Volvo safety. But at the end, because the whole thing is so pro-family, and it's so pro-involved and engaged fatherhood, and happy expectant father and mother. It's beautiful.

00:09:06 Speaker_00
And I was just like, Well, there you have it. We may have crazy things going on in the world, but there are still some people, even if it's just because, guess what?

00:09:15 Speaker_00
All the studies that they're reinventing these days are showing that people are happier in family life. That ultimate fulfillment comes from having close family connections, happy family connections. So it's really sweet.

00:09:31 Speaker_00
Go check that one out if you have a moment. There's also an Apple advertisement that came out

00:09:38 Speaker_00
I don't know what politics that company all the time or whatever, but they have this really sweet Christmas commercial where a father is watching his family open gifts and stuff, but he can't hear it very well.

00:09:49 Speaker_00
And you don't even realize, you think like, gosh, is there something wrong with my reception? Because there's a lot of, anyway, something in the way of hearing it well. And then his wife gives him these

00:10:00 Speaker_00
They look like AirPods, but I guess they're especially for hearing enhancement, for people who struggle with hearing. And it crystallizes the clarity of all the things that his family is doing whenever he's able to engage.

00:10:12 Speaker_00
So again, it's a kind of really nicely pro-family, pro-family moments. Finally, there was a German advertisement. It's all in German, so I didn't understand the language, but it's,

00:10:27 Speaker_00
another kind of extended advertisement where there's a grandfather guy and he's lifting up this weight and it's just one of those, I don't know, steel or iron balls that's a weight with a handle on the top.

00:10:42 Speaker_00
And you see him lifting it and trying to hold it out. And at first he's dropping it and then he keeps working on it until he can more easily over months, it seems like.

00:10:53 Speaker_00
I mean, at least many weeks, he's lifting it finally and holding it at an arm's length. And his wife sees him doing it and his, it looks like a daughter maybe is watching him. And he's just working out in this thing over days and weeks and whatever.

00:11:09 Speaker_00
And then the last scene is he's at a family Christmas thing and he picks up his granddaughter and holds her up so she can put the star on the tree. And it's really sweet.

00:11:20 Speaker_00
even, you know, it's all in German, but you don't need to know German to understand what's going on there.

00:11:24 Speaker_00
And it's just sweet to see that, like, okay, the world's going crazy, but there are some voices that are still pro-family, or at least from a, if you want to go just kind of cold-blooded marketing sense, smart enough to know that

00:11:42 Speaker_00
Marketing about family ties is still a good move. I think, you know, Jaguar, pretty cars notwithstanding, sure missed the mark on this one. And I hope they learned a lesson. I mean, who knows? Okay, let's finish up with Moroni 10.

00:12:00 Speaker_00
Beautiful chapter that it is. Tender, tender chapter. These last words of Moroni, for whom I hope we have a real soft spot in our hearts because of the challenge of his life, seeing his nation destroyed, and being alone after the loss of his father.

00:12:21 Speaker_00
But he goes on and talks about faith, hope, and charity. Now his father talked about this, remember? And he included a letter from his father to give this message. So, he's echoing the words of his father.

00:12:36 Speaker_00
He learned how important these things are for himself, but he is sharing them with us. Let's look at verse 20 of Moroni 10. Wherefore, there must be faith, and if there must be faith ... Now, he's just come off talking about the gifts of the Spirit.

00:12:54 Speaker_00
that work by faith, and they are an evidence of Christ, right? But there must be faith. And if there must be faith, there must also be hope. And if there must be hope, there must also be charity.

00:13:07 Speaker_00
It's a quick summary of what his father taught, that he included for us in a previous chapter. And except, this is verse 21, except ye have charity ye can in no wise be saved in the kingdom of God. Now that is a strong statement.

00:13:23 Speaker_00
He's not the only one who mentions this kind of writing. Paul talks about this, of course, in very strong terms as well. But except ye have charity, ye can in no wise be saved in the kingdom of God.

00:13:37 Speaker_00
Neither can you be saved by the kingdom of God if you have not faith, neither if you have no hope. And then in verse 22, we're going to come back to this idea of charity at the end of the podcast today.

00:13:46 Speaker_00
But if you have no hope, you must needs be in despair, and despair cometh because of iniquity. Now, that's a strong statement, too, and it might seem a little rough. But think about it. What he's talking about here is gospel hope, hope in Jesus Christ.

00:14:05 Speaker_00
Now, how does hope in Christ come?

00:14:08 Speaker_00
Remember, as we pointed out, that at the end of some of the records of the Book of Mormon prophets, they say things like, Moroni says it too, that I'm going to meet you before the pleasing bar of God, or that I know that I will be raised in the first resurrection, I know that I will be clean of the blood and sins of my generation.

00:14:27 Speaker_00
They say things like that. That's the hope. that Moroni, again, is referencing. That's the hope that all the prophets talk about.

00:14:35 Speaker_00
It's not temporal hope, it's hope in Christ for the completion of our journeys in such a way that we can receive all that God invites us to have at His hand, and because of the grace of Christ. You see the difference?

00:14:55 Speaker_00
It's not temporal, I hope things work out here, I hope I don't have problems, I hope everything looks good, money in the bank, health, all these things. No, that's not hope in the gospel, that's just temporal hope.

00:15:09 Speaker_00
Hope in Christ is hope that through this merciful plan and the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because of His blood and body that were shed for us, that

00:15:24 Speaker_00
We can be raised to a celestial glory, even the highest level of the celestial glory, if that's what we desire and qualify for. That's gospel hope. So if we don't have that, it's because of iniquity.

00:15:41 Speaker_00
Why else would we not believe that God would fulfill his promises to us? because we're not doing what we can to be diligent. Not perfect, but diligent in the covenant path. And that would be because we don't have faith.

00:15:59 Speaker_00
We don't have faith unto obedience. Remember James' great words, show me your faith without your works, I'll show you my faith by my works. If you have faith, you bring forth the fruits of faith, which are repentance and obedience.

00:16:13 Speaker_00
You become diligent about being a disciple of Christ, a follower of Christ, and you live in ways that the followers of Christ live. And if you don't have that, of course it's because of iniquity, and of course you're not going to have hope in Christ.

00:16:27 Speaker_00
Because He can't save us in our sins, He can only save us from our sins. So, if we're in sin, and we're not repentant, and we're not diligent, then we can't have hope in Christ. See, He will not go against His word. He will not go against eternal law.

00:16:44 Speaker_00
Mercy cannot rob justice. That's how it works, brothers and sisters. There are consequences for what we do. And Satan will not support us at the last day, but Christ will if we choose Him. He will be our advocate with the Father.

00:17:00 Speaker_00
Okay, I think that's so important. We're going to come back to the idea of charity in a moment. But let's talk about The fifth thing on our list here that Moroni talks about of seven, you will see me at the bar of God and know that my words are true.

00:17:17 Speaker_00
And I think this is really interesting, the language that Moroni uses here in verse 27. The timespeed like cometh that ye shall know that I lie not. That's strong and interestingly worded stuff. Ye shall know that I lie not."

00:17:38 Speaker_00
And then he goes on, "...for ye shall see me at the bar of God, and the Lord God will say unto you, Did I not declare my words unto you which were written by this man?" Like, Moroni will be there, and God will say, what, did you not hear my word?

00:17:53 Speaker_00
This man wrote it down, and he is a witness. If you have received the Book of Mormon, that you have heard these things, you have been taught these things,

00:18:04 Speaker_00
And then he describes this beautiful language that we use often in the church when we're talking about the Book of Mormon, like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust. Speaking out of the dust.

00:18:18 Speaker_00
So, I love that language. You'll know that I lie not, and I'll be there. And God will say, didn't you read what this man wrote? If you read it, didn't you hear the witness? Didn't you hear the witness of all the prophets of the Book of Mormon?

00:18:33 Speaker_00
Verse 6, come unto Christ. Of course this is ... The reason we have another testament of Jesus Christ is to help people come unto Christ and be perfected and sanctified by receiving His grace.

00:18:47 Speaker_00
This is verse 30 we're going to look at for a minute and a couple of other verses right by it. I would exhort you that you would come unto Christ, lay hold upon every good gift.

00:18:56 Speaker_00
Again, his father wrote a letter where he talked about that, chapter 7 in Moroni. And touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing. We do have to choose to shun evil and avoid evil.

00:19:12 Speaker_00
Then a nice verse in 31 about, basically, it sounds to me like building Zion. Awake, arise from the dust, O Jerusalem. Put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion. And strengthen thy stakes, and enlarge thy borders forever.

00:19:31 Speaker_00
and that all the promises made to the house of Israel can be fulfilled." Verse 32, "...yea, come unto Christ again, and be perfected in Him." Again, in Him, through Him, because He is perfect. That's how we become perfect.

00:19:45 Speaker_00
It's not because I clench my fists and grit my teeth and I become OCD about stuff, or perfectionistic. That's not going to work.

00:19:53 Speaker_00
God isn't looking for us to be OCD, like, He wants us to be diligent, because we are perfected in Christ, not in ourselves. Deny yourselves of all ungodliness. And we've talked about this.

00:20:08 Speaker_00
If we want to be sanctified, if we want the gift of the Holy Ghost to be complete as a constant companion that can purify the elements of corruption out of us and change us and make us fit for Christ's presence, then we do need to eliminate the things that offend the Spirit.

00:20:28 Speaker_00
that takes some conscientious, not OCD, but conscientious effort. We can't be complacent about it and think like, well, you know, it's just a little ugliness here and there. Like, let's try to be diligent in denying ourselves all ungodliness.

00:20:44 Speaker_00
And if we do this and love God with all our might, mind, and strength, then is his grace sufficient. So again, people want to talk about unconditional whatever, exaltation, everybody goes to heaven. No.

00:20:58 Speaker_00
No, there are requirements of covenant living, of diligence. Now, remember, the covenants themselves and the Ordinances are going to be available to all. That's why we have temples, which is such a symbol of God's great love for each one of us.

00:21:16 Speaker_00
So we don't have to worry about who did or didn't have a chance to get covenants in this life, because as we do our temple work, we are helping in that work to give that opportunity to those who didn't have it.

00:21:31 Speaker_00
And God loves all His children, so all will have that opportunity. You know, we could, again, take a moment and celebrate what's happening in temple building right now. I think it will continue all through the millennium.

00:21:44 Speaker_00
I think it will be just magnified as we get into that thousand-year period. And if by the grace of God we are perfect in Christ and deny not His power, then are ye sanctified in Christ.

00:21:59 Speaker_00
That's what I talk about a lot, is becoming worthy of sanctification. It requires this, to choose Him, to bring forth the fruits of belief, to develop that gospel hope, that hope in Christ, that He will fulfill His promises to us, to trust in that.

00:22:21 Speaker_00
And then we can be sanctified. And I don't want to leave out charity, but again, we're going to talk about that in a moment. So, then, His final message is this. Beautiful farewell. I bid you all farewell. I soon go.

00:22:41 Speaker_00
Now, we know he went and dedicated temple sites after this, so I don't know. Anytime God talks about soon, or his prophets talk about soon, or about time, it's a relative term.

00:22:53 Speaker_00
I soon go to rest in the paradise of God until my spirit and body shall again reunite.

00:23:01 Speaker_00
Witness of the resurrection, He is testifying of the reality of the resurrection, and I am brought forth triumphant through the air, beautiful language, to meet you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah, the eternal judge of both quick and dead.

00:23:19 Speaker_00
Amen. Beautiful. Let's say a word or two about charity. Brothers and sisters, as he says, without charity we are nothing, and he is not the only prophet that testifies of this.

00:23:46 Speaker_00
Marvin J. Ashton is an apostle from a few decades ago who said something that I've quoted often on this podcast, and I'm going to quote it again here. This is from his speech, The Tongue Can Be a Sharp Sword, from April 1992.

00:24:00 Speaker_00
And I will never forget being in one of our family rooms in Las Vegas, the first home that we were in for many years, watching conference with the family.

00:24:16 Speaker_00
And Marvin Ashton said this, the best and most clear indicator that we are progressing spiritually and coming unto Christ is the way we treat other people.

00:24:29 Speaker_00
I always look it up if I'm going to quote it, because I don't want to misquote it, but brothers and sisters, I've had that memorized ever since 1992.

00:24:35 Speaker_00
And I actually posted it on the refrigerator after the ensign came out, back in the day we had to wait for the ensign with the conference report in it.

00:24:44 Speaker_00
And I wanted to quote it exactly, and I put it on the refrigerator with a magnet, and I asked my kids to memorize it too. So I think they're pretty familiar with this. It comes up in conversation sometimes.

00:24:58 Speaker_00
Let me repeat, the best and most clear indicator that we are progressing spiritually and coming unto Christ is the way we treat other people. Now, does that mean that that's all that's required, is that we're nice to other people? No. No.

00:25:18 Speaker_00
Moroni just gave a recap. Many other prophets have talked to us and shared with us requirements God has. Faith. Repentance.

00:25:34 Speaker_00
He asks us to join the covenant path, to be diligent in observing our covenants, to pay our tithing, to be honest, to fulfill calling, serve one another. All these things. We're reminded regularly of the things that God invites us to do.

00:25:51 Speaker_00
We do our ministering visits.

00:25:54 Speaker_00
be kind, but we are admonished to do lots of things that are part of building the kingdom, and part of changing ourselves into people who are fit for the kingdom, and who are followers of Christ, demonstrably, by the way we live.

00:26:10 Speaker_00
But this is a capstone statement here, and that's how I heard it. I remember, again, I've mentioned this before, but I turned to my

00:26:20 Speaker_00
Kids, when I heard him say this, and it was before we had DVRs and we couldn't rewind it, or I would have, I would have listened to it two or three times in a row at least and discussed it.

00:26:30 Speaker_00
But that's why I was excited to get the ensign that year after that conference and post it and review the whole speech.

00:26:37 Speaker_00
But this was the thing I was really keyed on, because I remember even in that moment turning to my children and saying, I'm pretty sure That's the summary right there. That is the fruit of coming to Christ.

00:26:52 Speaker_00
If we truly come to Christ, that is visible in our lives. It's how we treat other people. Now, okay, here's a little bit of, you know, unfortunate news, or an unfortunate example that happened recently on ex-formerly Twitter.

00:27:10 Speaker_00
Caitlin's the one who kind of follows this Latter-day Saint group, or that's who she ends up seeing. But anyway, there are some interesting things that are shared there, so I appreciate her passing them along to me.

00:27:24 Speaker_00
But a woman who was a member of our church, a convert to the church, posted on X that she had a tattoo touched up on the side of a finger.

00:27:37 Speaker_00
I mean, she has a picture of it and it looked to me, it's hard to say exactly, but it looks like it was hair for those of you on YouTube, but otherwise it was like her middle finger, I think, and kind of from the base to the knuckle maybe, just a word was put there.

00:27:53 Speaker_00
And so you can't even see it very much, but But it's there, and she can see it. And the word is enough. That was the word that she had tattooed there.

00:28:08 Speaker_00
And she mentions on this post that she had that tattoo touched up, because she's still struggling with the idea. And I don't know that she even mentioned what the word was until a little bit later in the discussion that ensued.

00:28:20 Speaker_00
And actually, it was sort of a firestorm that ensued. Because there was a storm of responses from other Latter-day Saints, Not all.

00:28:29 Speaker_00
In fact, it was split in some ways, but there were a lot that were critical and quoting prophets to tell her that tattoos were bad.

00:28:40 Speaker_00
Now, brothers and sisters, my belief, and this of course used to be very clear in the For Strength of Youth pamphlet, and then with the new change and all that, they didn't put it specifically in there, although they still mention that the body is a temple, it is the temple of our spirit, and that we should be very cautious before doing things to permanently alter our bodies.

00:29:00 Speaker_00
So, it seems to me like, again, the standard is, you know, it's better not to do those things.

00:29:05 Speaker_00
But they're also aware that we have many cultures in the Church, and some of them, as rites of passage, include lots of tattoos and whatever, and so the Church is saying, like, okay, let's not die on this mountain.

00:29:18 Speaker_00
Does that mean that we should run out and get tattoos? In my opinion, no. But am I going to condemn somebody who gets a tattoo?

00:29:27 Speaker_00
We have a lot of people who were in the military, and they get tattoos, and sometimes you see that they're serving in the temple, and you see them. Do people get stopped at the temple door if they have tattoos? No. At the recommend desk? No.

00:29:43 Speaker_00
Come one, come all, right? So yes, the larger the church becomes, the more we include people from all over the world and all walks of life and all backgrounds, of course, there are going to be more and more variety.

00:30:01 Speaker_00
There will be more and more variety in how we look, how we dress, some of the choices we've made. The goal is to become one. That hasn't changed, and it never will change. But are we going to become one by telling people off? By shaming them?

00:30:21 Speaker_00
By making a final judgment kind of statement or a condemnation statement towards somebody? Come on! She's a convert, and what does that mean, that she has enough there? She has struggled with feeling like she's enough.

00:30:36 Speaker_00
Now, is that my recommended way of dealing with that problem? No, it's not. But am I gonna jump all over her because that is something that she feels like helps her? No, I'm not. I'm going to say, hey, God loves you, and... Keep going in your struggle.

00:30:55 Speaker_00
Good luck and your blessings come to you in your struggle. May God bless you as you find the strength to know that you are enough, that you are one of his children and he loves you. But instead it became this pro or con firestorm on tattoos.

00:31:11 Speaker_00
And some people, well, I have a tattoo and others, you know, that like, well, I would never do a tattoo and whatever. And it was just, it was sad. And anyway, Caitlin sent in a comment, which I thought was, Nice. And what did she say?

00:31:26 Speaker_00
If we are going to build Zion, a lot of change has to happen on every side. We aren't going to change opinions or hearts with anything but love and peacemaking. Jesus and being moved by the Spirit are the answer. I was glad she put that out there.

00:31:44 Speaker_00
There was another comment that was very nice that she shared with me from one of the brothers in the group. We can appreciate a sister's attempt

00:31:55 Speaker_00
that dealing in her way with her own struggles and support her in her efforts to stay on the path, regardless of how we feel about tattoos. That was nice.

00:32:08 Speaker_00
He went on to say, reproach or counsel if you are an appropriate person to offer it, and he put appropriate in all caps. Good for him because do we even have a stewardship? Are we called to point out people's failings in public?

00:32:25 Speaker_00
What about the whole moat and beam thing that Christ talked about?

00:32:29 Speaker_00
Like, can we just use this as an opportunity to look in the mirror and say, there are some things that I want to clean up in my own life, or that might be sending a funny signal or a mixed message to somebody, rather than jump down her throat.

00:32:41 Speaker_00
Anyway, he said, if you are an appropriate person to offer reproach or counsel, it should be done in private.

00:32:46 Speaker_00
While people are quoting conference talks and scriptures, perhaps they should do a little reading on that topic, too, along the line of the beans and the moats, right? So anyway, I just, you know, I weep for Zion. Joseph Smith made that statement.

00:33:03 Speaker_00
He said, I still weep for Zion. And what did he mean? He meant, he weeps that Zion is not yet established among us, among his people back in that day where he taught about Zion too.

00:33:19 Speaker_00
Now I have another little segment that I'd like to share with you here that I really enjoyed. It was, let's see, is this where it starts? I think so. No, I think there's more. Here we go. Okay, now I've got it.

00:33:42 Speaker_00
This was a podcast that I saw, a conversation, kind of long, between Eric Metaxas and Glenn Beck. So Eric Metaxas, I've mentioned before, he is a man who wrote

00:33:59 Speaker_00
He's still alive and he is Christian, and he tries to comment on today's news from a Christian perspective. So he's trying to do his part to spread the Christian worldview and things like that.

00:34:14 Speaker_00
He wrote a book, a biography, these are not his only books, but on William Wilberforce, who was the Englishman who was most responsible over years of persuading enough people in the UK parliament to outlaw slavery.

00:34:37 Speaker_00
So he was a huge force for good in that country to eliminate slavery. And this is from years ago that Wilberforce lived.

00:34:48 Speaker_00
Also, more recently, he wrote, and it's been several years for this too, he wrote a large biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and I've quoted Bonhoeffer before. He was a German cleric that stood up against the Nazis.

00:35:02 Speaker_00
He ended up being involved in the assassination attempt on Hitler's life, and he was imprisoned and eventually murdered by the Nazis shortly before the war ended.

00:35:13 Speaker_00
But he also had written a letter or a book called The Costs of Discipleship, which I have read, Bonhoeffer did, and it's a beautiful book.

00:35:27 Speaker_00
He also is the one that I've quoted, and this I posted on Patreon a while back, talking about cheap grace versus costly grace. Beautiful statement that he makes. Anyway, that's Bonhoeffer. But Taxis wrote

00:35:41 Speaker_00
a considerable biography with a lot of detail about that man. And he's a real fan of Bonhoeffer. And he also was anyway, he was on Glenn Beck to talk about the new movie on Bonhoeffer that was released recently. And he likes the movie.

00:35:59 Speaker_00
I haven't seen it yet, but he likes it. And he thought it was a great

00:36:04 Speaker_00
rendition of Bonhoeffer's life, acknowledging that you have to take some literary license and so on when you're making movies and you can't cover all the details, but he thought they did a pretty good job.

00:36:14 Speaker_00
At any rate, he is talking about something called religionless Christianity, and that is a recent book that Metaxas has written. Religionless Christianity. That's interesting, right?

00:36:28 Speaker_00
He's saying Christianity without even being associated with a particular religion. But this is what he mentioned, and I actually transcribed it because I didn't have a transcription, but I liked it really well.

00:36:39 Speaker_00
At the heart of Christian faith is a personal relationship with Jesus. Now that's what President, or sorry, Elder Ashton was saying, right? If we really are coming to Christ, then it's this personal thing and it shows in the way we treat other people.

00:36:55 Speaker_00
But anyway, so it's going to get to that in a minute. He mentions that Bonhoeffer in 1944 wrote letters to his very best friend.

00:37:04 Speaker_00
So he said that he didn't have to maybe explain everything to this best friend because the friend knew him as well as anybody did. But he mentioned that we needed a religionless Christianity.

00:37:18 Speaker_00
He said, we have all the religion, but it did not stand up against evil. We need to live out our faith like the martyrs of old. We need to live out our faith 24-7.

00:37:32 Speaker_00
So, this is Metaxas kind of talking about getting this idea from Bonhoeffer's letter to a friend about religious Christianity.

00:37:40 Speaker_00
And Bonhoeffer talked also in his letters to his friend that we need to put our faith in action, and the German church didn't. If we'd had a truly religionless Christianity, in other words, all this liturgical stuff, now liturgical meaning

00:37:56 Speaker_00
the workings of the Church, like the Mass, or the Sacrament, or the Eucharist for the Catholics, or all of these things, including other ordinances and so on.

00:38:07 Speaker_00
But all of these observances, in other words, that all this liturgical stuff, he said, the trappings of religions, whom did Christ rail against? The Hellenistic philosophers? The pagans? No.

00:38:22 Speaker_00
The most religious people of Christ's day were the ones he called a brood of vipers. You are of your father, the devil, he said. In other words, you can know the Bible backwards and forwards.

00:38:35 Speaker_00
You can do all the religious stuff, and then when God sends his son into your midst, you murder him. That's satanic. He knew that all these religious trappings not only are worth nothing, but they can be marshaled by the devil for his purposes.

00:38:51 Speaker_00
And of course, that's what the Pharisees did. They used the trappings of their religion to call Christ a blasphemer, to condemn that he healed on the Sabbath, or that his Apostles, you know, took corn from the stock to eat on the Sabbath.

00:39:10 Speaker_00
They used religion to accuse him of blasphemy and calling himself the son of God, which he was and was testifying to them of. So, as Metaxas is saying, that these things can be marshaled by the devil for his purposes.

00:39:25 Speaker_00
Bonhoeffer saw that all this religious stuff in Germany opened the door to the devil and opened the door to the evil of the death camps. because nobody stood up for the Jews as a religion. No church stood up for the Jews.

00:39:38 Speaker_00
He's saying we needed a religionless Christianity, people to actually live out their faith. And in every generation, in Jesus' generation, in every single generation, there are people with all the trappings of religion that are not living it out.

00:39:55 Speaker_00
And Bonhoeffer dares to say this in a letter to a friend. Now, I'm just... There's another little part I'm going to read here, but I want to just pause for a moment and say, we are so blessed that we have the ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:40:14 Speaker_00
Because of the restoration of the gospel, we have the priesthood authority of the Church to officiate in ordinances that are ordinances of salvation.

00:40:24 Speaker_00
the ability to be baptized in the way that Christ was, by the same authority that Christ was, and confirmed so that we can receive the Holy Ghost when we have met the criteria to qualify for that great gift and that sanctifying power.

00:40:39 Speaker_00
We have temple covenants that can seal us together as families forever. This is extraordinary, that we can be sealed to a partner, to our husband or our wife, forever.

00:40:54 Speaker_00
If we meet the qualifications of those covenants, if we are diligent, not perfect, but we allow Christ to let us be perfected in Him through our diligence, through bringing forth the fruits. So, let's read this last part.

00:41:11 Speaker_00
When people say to me that they have this perfect theology or Glenn Beck has the wrong theology, let me tell you, God looks on your heart. That's what Elder Ashton is saying. How do you treat other people?

00:41:24 Speaker_00
Like, you can have all the ordinances in place.

00:41:27 Speaker_00
And yes, if we're members of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, how blessed are we that we can have these true ordinances performed on our behalf by priesthood authority that is sanctioned by God.

00:41:42 Speaker_00
It's His true authority. But what good does it do us if we don't become Christian? What good does it do us? It matters nothing. God looks on your heart. C.S. Lewis understood this better than anybody.

00:42:01 Speaker_00
God looks on your heart so you can talk all you want about your theology. God knows your theology by how you live. All these people who think they have perfect theology are worshiping this idol of perfect theology.

00:42:15 Speaker_00
How ironic that we can make an idol of having the true church, or whatever our theology. That's not the same as worshiping Jesus. And you worship Jesus with your life. There's something here that a lot of people are uncomfortable with.

00:42:33 Speaker_00
They want life all buttoned up. They want religion all buttoned up. Like, if you believe this, this, and this, you're in. You don't, you're out. That is not the God of the Bible, Metaxas says. No. It was a lovely conversation.

00:42:48 Speaker_00
I really appreciated the fact that this is kind of where they went, this was closer to the end, where they are talking about how important it is for us to live lives of Christianity. And yes, I was a little sad when Caitlin told me about that ex-

00:43:05 Speaker_00
storm that happened there about that woman's tattoo on her finger, instead of just kind of like, you know, sitting back and going like, is there a Christian in the house? Which of us could be Christian?

00:43:18 Speaker_00
If we're going to build Zion, it's not going to be built out of contention. It's not going to be built out of condemning one another. It's not going to be built out of

00:43:29 Speaker_00
parading our righteousness, or the fact that I'm good at this commandment, or good at that one, you know, or this standard, or that standard, like, that's not really what does it. Now, I'm not saying those things aren't important.

00:43:41 Speaker_00
I'm so grateful to have the true ordinances and priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am endlessly grateful for that. But are there people who don't have it who might be better Christians than we are? Yeah, maybe.

00:44:00 Speaker_00
There will be others who might go to the head of the line when it comes to the hereafter, because they actually showed the fruit of Christian living in their lives. And we just clung to our observances, the trappings, the liturgy of religion.

00:44:20 Speaker_00
We can do better. And brothers and sisters, if we're going to choose glory, we must do better. We must.

00:44:28 Speaker_00
That is my prayer, that we will choose glory, that we will come unto Christ as Moroni has invited us, that we will treasure the words of the Book of Mormon and constantly stay in touch with this great record, that we can thereby build Zion.

00:44:53 Speaker_00
It's going to be built, brothers and sisters, I hope we're a part of it. And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. I hope that my love for the Book of Mormon has come through this year. But that's not what really matters.

00:45:10 Speaker_00
It's your love for the Book of Mormon that matters. I mean, it matters to each one of us singly because we will stand before the bar of justice and we will Know that these prophets did not lie.

00:45:23 Speaker_00
They testified of truth, that we might be partakers of all the gifts that God invites us to receive, as ever, thanks to my dear husband, Chris Anderson, and Doug Larson of Point Digital. Take care.