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Episode: #2244 - Ryan Graves

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 02:54:31

Episode Shownotes

Ryan Graves is a former Lt. U.S. Navy and F/A-18F pilot who was the first active duty pilot to publicly disclose regular sightings of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. Today, Graves serves as the first Chair of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UAP Integration & Outreach Committee, Executive Director of

Americans for Safe Aerospace, and is the founder of StarSense Innovations.  www.safeaerospace.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_04
The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:13 Speaker_03
Hello good to see you again. Nice to see you. What is the latest in the world of Ryan? The fact you're about to have a child Congratulations on that. Thank you. What?

00:00:26 Speaker_03
We wanted you wanted to talk to me about this drone situation and I've become very concerned. I don't understand what's going on I think there's a bunch of different narratives and Some of them are very scary.

00:00:36 Speaker_03
The scariest one that I've heard is that the drones are looking for gamma radiation because there's a missing nuke.

00:00:44 Speaker_07
Yeah, let's address that first. Please. So there has been a lot going on. I made a next post about this yesterday to try to assuage some fears. I saw it, but I purposely didn't read it because I wanted to get it from you. Yeah.

00:00:58 Speaker_07
So, you know, I've had the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole.

00:01:08 Speaker_07
Law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destruction. So that's their job.

00:01:21 Speaker_07
So if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies, they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it, right?

00:01:33 Speaker_07
So you can imagine that would be their number one priority, right? So I engage with these folks. I ask them, you know, what's the sense here?

00:01:40 Speaker_07
You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit, and this message is getting out there more and more broadly.

00:01:47 Speaker_07
And they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now.

00:01:58 Speaker_07
Otherwise, they would be working in a skiff nonstop to make that go away, that problem go away.

00:02:03 Speaker_07
You know, that's part of why I have a high confidence level that this is not a response to a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard. So I just want to try to dispel that rumor right now.

00:02:18 Speaker_07
I've seen a lot of talk of that online. And I don't, you know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and scary situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, that's not the indications I'm receiving.

00:02:31 Speaker_03
So how would they persuade you, just by saying that's not the case? Or have they given you any information that leads to this conclusion?

00:02:42 Speaker_07
They would be the people actively working it, essentially, right?

00:02:46 Speaker_03
And they're not.

00:02:46 Speaker_07
They're not working it, right?

00:02:47 Speaker_07
So either the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems, or they're not working the issue because there's an issue there to work.

00:02:58 Speaker_03
So the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine. And if that was the case, so what could they do?

00:03:10 Speaker_03
Is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability that we could send these things out and they would search for gamma radiation and they'd be able to find a nuke?

00:03:23 Speaker_07
So there are teams that respond to those types of potential emergencies, typically within the Department of Energy. Having, you know, potentially hundreds of drones flying around trying to identify these isn't necessarily the best way.

00:03:38 Speaker_07
Gamma radiation is typically well shielded in weapons. And at very high altitudes or even moderate altitudes, like we're seeing these objects, it would be pretty difficult to detect them.

00:03:48 Speaker_07
And the way that NIST, the DOE, typically operates in this environment is ground-based teams searching for radiation itself. So it's not necessarily consistent with how they would do it to begin with.

00:04:00 Speaker_07
And then based off of that other information, that's what leads me to believe that's not the case.

00:04:05 Speaker_03
Well, that makes me feel better because I was freaking out this weekend.

00:04:09 Speaker_06
I think a lot of people were.

00:04:10 Speaker_03
Yeah, I got a couple. It's one of those things, especially in this day and age with social media. There's so many narratives that get spread and retweeted.

00:04:19 Speaker_03
And, you know, I know a guy who's an insider and he says to get out of the East Coast and, you know, head for Nevada or, you know, there's a lot of that shit going on. There's a lot of different versions of these drones, and this is what's weird.

00:04:35 Speaker_03
If they weren't ours, if they're not ours. you would think that they could just track them and find out, well, where are they landing? Who's got them? How are they being used? Is it RFI, like radio frequency?

00:04:48 Speaker_03
Is it some sort of a different technology that's allowing them to pilot these things? Like, what is it? They'd be able to tune into that and figure it out, right? So how come no one's been arrested? How come no one's been caught?

00:05:00 Speaker_03
How come they haven't, you know, tracked these things down to the source?

00:05:05 Speaker_07
Yeah, so there's a lot of good questions there. Let me back up by starting with the fact that this started about two years ago, at least.

00:05:12 Speaker_03
But not like this.

00:05:14 Speaker_07
A little bit like this.

00:05:15 Speaker_03
Really? In this volume?

00:05:17 Speaker_07
Not in this volume. That's the differentiator right there. So Langley Air Force Base, you might be familiar with the fact that they had drone incursions of an unknown type, unknown origin last year.

00:05:29 Speaker_07
That happened during about a two and a half three week period right before Christmas Right right where we are now that also happened the year before over Langley unknown objects operating over the base They couldn't tell where they're going.

00:05:45 Speaker_07
They're unprepared for them and Same period of time two three weeks before Christmas. This is year three, right?

00:05:52 Speaker_07
and they were expecting them to come again for the third year in a row over Langley and There was you know, some effort put forward to be able to better understand these when they came back And they did come back, but they came back in a much wider swath right now we have them all over New Jersey all the way up to Massachusetts and

00:06:10 Speaker_07
And it's hard to tell exactly with the quality of the reporting right now, because it seems to be, you know, the bigger the story gets, the more people are just looking up and seeing anything and pointing it out.

00:06:20 Speaker_07
But, you know, there are reports from Texas, to Florida, to California, Ohio, Minnesota, Pennsylvania. I mean, it's not just New Jersey itself, it seems.

00:06:30 Speaker_07
And even the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was shut down for a drone incursion just this last Friday, a couple days ago. So this isn't just a one-off event. It is in the sense that it's so large, and so many people are paying attention to it.

00:06:44 Speaker_07
But this has been occurring for at least three years around military bases.

00:06:48 Speaker_07
And that's nothing to say with the incidents that we were seeing over the Eastern Seaboard and other training ranges that fighter pilots were seeing as they were doing their operations.

00:06:59 Speaker_07
I'm a little hesitant to link it to that, the full story that we've been having here, this full conversation, but at least for three years, this has been occurring.

00:07:09 Speaker_07
So, you know, kind of getting back to your question, you know, why can't we do more about it? It's a hard problem, I think, for a number of reasons. It's hard, but it's very solvable, right? I think this can be solved. We can solve it.

00:07:22 Speaker_07
But right now, kind of the word on the street is that These objects appear to be coming from over the ocean.

00:07:30 Speaker_07
There's senior congressmen, there's Coast Guard personnel, there's law enforcement that are seeing a large number of these come from somewhere over the ocean.

00:07:37 Speaker_07
I don't know if that means necessarily they're popping out of the water physically or if they're coming from some unknown location in the water and then proceeding over the coast. I don't know how that relates to Ohio.

00:07:49 Speaker_07
That's a pretty long trip if they are coming over the ocean. And from the videos I've seen in the conversation I've had, they are detecting these objects through kind of normal mechanisms like radar systems, optical camera systems.

00:08:07 Speaker_07
They are flying very low. In some cases, they seem to be operating as a group.

00:08:13 Speaker_07
In the vicinity of each other flying past each other flying very up close to each other and then proceeding to do whatever they are that they're doing It's an unknown right now if they are Emitting energy or not.

00:08:25 Speaker_07
So, you know like radio communications or their own maybe active sensor systems It's unknown. I've poked on that front and the best I can tell the government doesn't know either Weird that they don't know that

00:08:39 Speaker_03
Like it's just very disturbing that someone could operate these things and have I mean how many what is the the estimated number of them?

00:08:48 Speaker_07
That's a great question. I mean at this point. I'm comfortable making a guess of probably over 800 or a thousand And how many of those are sightings of the same object? How many of those are individual objects? How many of those are unique objects?

00:09:02 Speaker_07
So it's tough to say, but this isn't just a few objects that people are seeing. And so I can imagine some technologies that will allow traditional UAVs or drones to operate without emitting. So they could have a self-contained navigational system.

00:09:21 Speaker_07
Maybe they have their own onboard maps and they're using cameras to map where they are.

00:09:25 Speaker_03
So then they would be completely autonomous. You just send them out there and they would have a task and they would go through whatever their task is and navigate via their GPS or whatever tracking system they're using.

00:09:36 Speaker_07
Exactly. And then, you know, what is their task, right? Is it just to instill panic and fear? Is it because they're sensing something? And if they are sensing something, they would have to be using what's called passive sensors, right?

00:09:50 Speaker_07
So, like a camera system is passive, but if you're shooting, you know, a radar out and having it bounce off of something, that's active, right? And that's easier to detect than a passive system.

00:10:00 Speaker_07
So I could imagine a fully self-contained autonomous drone system that is doing something potentially with passive sensors that allows it to operate without emissions, which is gonna make it harder to track.

00:10:11 Speaker_03
If they're doing it at night, if they do have passive systems like some sort of an optical system, wouldn't that be hindered by the low light conditions or do we have stuff that... is able to detect whatever they're looking for at night?

00:10:25 Speaker_07
Yeah, depends what they're looking for. But ultimately, there is tech, there's electro-optical systems, there's infrared camera systems, not unlike the systems that we had on my jet.

00:10:36 Speaker_07
But we were able to detect these objects with infrared when we were flying off the Eastern Seaboard. There are a number of reports from law enforcement that their infrared systems are not able to pick these objects up.

00:10:47 Speaker_07
And not just this year, but also the incidents over Langley last year, the pilots that respond to the incidents I've spoken to them, they weren't able to lock these up with their infrared systems either.

00:10:57 Speaker_07
So they do seem to be exhibiting some type of signature management.

00:11:01 Speaker_03
That's interesting. So is the signature management, so is it a heat signature that they're giving off? So maybe there's some sort of a cooling mechanism inside of these things?

00:11:11 Speaker_03
If they have a propulsion system, so you would imagine it's some sort of an electric engine, right? Because a lot of them are very quiet. That's got to be giving off some kind of heat, right?

00:11:21 Speaker_07
Yeah, and that goes to some, like, very base physics, right? Like, we create heat whenever we have, you know, stored energy and we utilize it.

00:11:28 Speaker_07
So to be able to mitigate that to such a degree that you can't even detect them at all, you know, it's pretty tough. I mean, I can imagine you can reduce your signature.

00:11:37 Speaker_07
We do it in fighter jets, right, through kind of just, like, baffles where we cover the engine, essentially, to make it harder to see. But to have zero ability to detect or lock onto these objects is not a technology I'm familiar with.

00:11:50 Speaker_03
So other than that, are they exhibiting any type of movement that's extraordinary or their ability to turn angles? Is there anything about them that points to this being superior technology?

00:12:08 Speaker_07
You know, it's tough to say based on what I've seen just in the public from from reports and kind of amateur photographers or witnesses Some of them do seem to be making pretty sharp turns I wouldn't call them like physics breaking turns, but they don't seem to be operating like a normal aircraft, right?

00:12:24 Speaker_07
So they're down low they're making what appeared to be pretty high G turns and maybe like three, four, five G turns at relatively low air speeds, which is indicative of them having a pretty significant power supply, right?

00:12:37 Speaker_07
Anytime you turn like that, you're burning energy, essentially.

00:12:41 Speaker_07
So for them to be able to make these high G maneuvers and then remain in the area for another five or six or seven hours and still have the battery life or whatever's propelling them, to then go over the ocean to a point where they're untrackable,

00:12:55 Speaker_03
Again, I I'm not really familiar with that type of capability either I know they've shot at least one of them down or people shot. Have you seen the video? It looks like cops are shooting them down with shotguns in New Jersey.

00:13:07 Speaker_06
Yeah, I did see one video like that.

00:13:10 Speaker_03
I wasn't sure how real it was I know because it's like hey man when you shoot up those bullets land somewhere, you know, they can land on people Yeah

00:13:20 Speaker_07
Yeah, I've you know I've heard multiple people representative officials saying like hey government needs to step in and start being more clear because people are Just gonna take matters into their own hands. That's where people get hurt.

00:13:30 Speaker_03
Well. There's also been downed ones, right? I've heard rumors of downed ones But I haven't video footage, and there's these people driving in their car and cop cars are surrounding this thing plane It was a plane. I think that was a plane crash.

00:13:43 Speaker_07
Oh, yeah I think if that's the one you're referring to there happened to be a like a small plane crash.

00:13:48 Speaker_03
Can you find that one Jamie? Okay, but again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who's just kind of scrolling for five minutes and go, what the fuck?

00:13:57 Speaker_03
And then my kids ask me something, I gotta get out of the house, all right, let me put my phone down. So I haven't done any kind of a deep dive, and I did that purposely just to try to pick your brain. Is this one? Oh yeah, that's definitely a plane.

00:14:10 Speaker_03
Is that the one?

00:14:10 Speaker_02
Yeah, when they were driving by, they're like, look, it's a drone shot down.

00:14:13 Speaker_03
Right, that might be the one that I saw. I did watch a video. Did you see the video of the plane that crashed in Texas? Pretty crazy. I'll send you that. It's unrelated.

00:14:25 Speaker_07
We need to get Elon Musk to have like a special UAP task force within the community.

00:14:29 Speaker_03
Elon is, look, he's oddly sly about this stuff. He, you know, outwardly dismisses UFOs. You know, he said, well, through there, they're very subtle.

00:14:47 Speaker_03
Okay, but I just feel like with his contracts with NASA and being involved in SpaceX He can't talk crazy. Yeah, he talks crazy so much about other stuff, but when it's in this, you know fucking Multi multi-billion dollar company that he runs.

00:15:04 Speaker_03
I don't think you can fuck around. Yeah, I don't think you know if it was something that he had no idea

00:15:10 Speaker_03
Just no interest in at all in terms of like financial interest and business interest I'm sure he would be commenting on it, but he's not commenting on it at all which makes me go hmm

00:15:22 Speaker_03
You know, and I don't think he's gonna tell me I don't think I can call him up cuz I got a big mouth I think he knows Yeah, it's um The the thing that disturbs me not is not just that this is happening There's so many drones and all these people are seeing them.

00:15:41 Speaker_03
It's just it's happening for so long and nothing has been done There's no, you know, they're not scrambling jets to try to meet these things and follow them and track them They're not shooting them down. They're not

00:15:52 Speaker_03
It's just, we appear so vulnerable because of this. Because if these are ours, or if these are people just fucking around, and it's not a threat, okay, great. But why is it so prevalent? Why are there so many of them?

00:16:08 Speaker_03
And why have there been nothing that these people that are trying to investigate this have been able to do that's effective? Just put a stop to this.

00:16:19 Speaker_07
So there's There's some laws in this country that are a little bit antiquated when it comes to dealing with situations like this So my understanding is right now these things are operating mostly what's called class G airspace, which is really low It's away from airports.

00:16:33 Speaker_07
Not all of course, right there over bases. So they're over LaGuardia. Yeah. Yeah, but here's here's I think where a lot of the troubles coming in from is

00:16:43 Speaker_07
I think the government has to make the presumption at this point, based off the feedback from the DOD and others, that if this is not a foreign adversary, then we have to make the assumption that it's a US citizen that's operating these.

00:16:56 Speaker_07
Because of that, they essentially need a warrant in order to wiretap these. What? Yeah. Even with the Patriot Act? That's the feedback I'm receiving. That's the legal limitation.

00:17:06 Speaker_03
Oh, come on. They don't even need a warrant to get into my phone. Fuck out of here.

00:17:11 Speaker_07
I don't buy that. Well, whether it's the reality situation or not, that's how they're proceeding, right?

00:17:16 Speaker_07
And so to overcome that, you know, there's like 120 page report that needs to be filed all the way up to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in order to even intercept these signals that they may or may not even be emitting to be able to determine where they're going.

00:17:31 Speaker_07
And so I think that's one part of what's like slowing down this whole investigation. On the other hand, for base commanders,

00:17:39 Speaker_07
They have limited authorities to protect their base, but when they do, they need to submit basically a request all the way up to the Secretary of Defense.

00:17:48 Speaker_07
And so now you have this like super politically charged situation with a lot of risk of objects flying over the U.S.

00:17:54 Speaker_07
If they take action and shoot one of these down, even with the Secretary of Defense's permission, you know, they're on the hook if that thing takes out a school bus or otherwise damages someone's property.

00:18:03 Speaker_03
Or kills somebody. Jamie, can you research, can you just do a quick search? Have there been drones that have been shot down?

00:18:12 Speaker_02
I haven't seen anything. There's a story from two days ago. New Jersey lawmakers were having a press conference asking if the government could shoot one down so they can inspect it.

00:18:24 Speaker_02
I'm assuming they haven't shot one down if they're asking to shoot one down that day. Here's something new that I don't know if it's even worth bringing up, but this is a new story going on. They said this might be what some of this has to do with.

00:18:36 Speaker_03
I don't even know if this is- Missing radioactive material. Scroll up a little bit higher so I can see who put that up there.

00:18:42 Speaker_02
There's a few people that have posted it.

00:18:44 Speaker_03
Okay. Yes, I did see that. I did see that. Well, looking at Nuclear Regulatory Commission alerts, one confirmed there's radioactive material that has gone missing on December 2nd, 2024 out of New Jersey.

00:18:56 Speaker_02
I guess it was being shipped there and it didn't make a container arrive damaged and empty. Well, my understanding is these sightings started around November 18th. Yes, I saw the November 20th too, so I don't know if that makes it related.

00:19:14 Speaker_03
So we should explain to people that didn't listen to our first podcast why you're uniquely qualified to talk about this stuff.

00:19:21 Speaker_03
Just please tell people your background so they understand what you used to do and how you got involved in this whole UAP thing in the beginning.

00:19:30 Speaker_07
Yeah, absolutely. So, formerly trained aerospace engineer in college, joined the Navy immediately after with the hopes to go fly fighter jets for the Navy, was successful in doing that.

00:19:42 Speaker_07
And I flew the F-18 Super Hornet for 11 years and two deployments. primarily operating off of Virginia Beach. And pretty standard career, until about 2013 or so, when we came back from our deployment, we began to upgrade our radar systems.

00:20:02 Speaker_07
When that happened, we put in, essentially, a much more powerful radar into our jet. It took about eight months. So you'd have, you know, you might fly with a a newer radar in the morning, maybe an older radar at night.

00:20:13 Speaker_07
And consistently, when we were flying with these newer radars, we were picking up a bunch of objects that were operating in our working area that we weren't seeing with the older radar. They were performing in strange ways. They would be stationary.

00:20:27 Speaker_07
They would be around 250 to 350 knots, kind of meandering around the area. not really working together per se, but kind of clearly operating in the same vicinity as one another, right? So we weren't flying in formations necessarily.

00:20:41 Speaker_07
And we'd even see these supersonic as well, 1.1, 1.2 Mach, typically heading east, and we'd only see them over the water. We originally thought they were radar errors, right, some kind of software glitch.

00:20:55 Speaker_07
But eventually, we started to correlate these across other sensors, such as our IR FLIR system, our missile systems would lock onto these, and we would, we'd try to fly up to them to see them physically with our eyeballs.

00:21:07 Speaker_07
And when we do that, we wouldn't see anything. We come within about 500 feet of these objects. All our sensors are pumped into our helmet, augmented reality style.

00:21:17 Speaker_07
And it would tell us exactly where to look and boom, we come right past this object and there'd be nothing there. We'd circle back around and then pick it back up on our sensors.

00:21:26 Speaker_07
It would be slightly displaced, but that was kind of the status quo for a few weeks until we had a near miss with one of these objects right at the entrance to our working areas.

00:21:36 Speaker_07
The pilot came back, canceled the flight, had a look of shock on his face and described it as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.

00:21:45 Speaker_07
And once that happened, we kind of had to come together as a squadron with the safety officer in our squadron and say, hey, you know, like, okay, what's going on? This has kind of been rumor and conjecture.

00:21:53 Speaker_07
But, you know, we almost had a near miss, you almost lost an aircraft. You know, let's gather as much information as we can.

00:22:00 Speaker_07
As it turned out, there are four other near misses that had occurred in the past month that pilots were too uncomfortable to even report.

00:22:09 Speaker_07
And that really kind of kicked off the seriousness of this issue for us, and we started filing paperwork, safety reports, and hoping and expecting that this would get resolved in some way as, you know, the proper people, whoever that was, got these reports and they could mitigate it in some way.

00:22:27 Speaker_07
But that never happened, at least from our perspective. So we essentially treated them as safety issues. We would avoid them. We wouldn't fly close to them.

00:22:36 Speaker_07
And then in 2015, we left to go do what's called a pre-deployment workup cycle aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt. So we trained like we play. You get the whole air wing there, 30 jets, 40 jets, and we're doing these very complex missions.

00:22:53 Speaker_07
And there were a lot of objects down there as well. They either followed us down there or they were already there.

00:23:00 Speaker_03
Was there a lot of visual sightings of these objects, or is it just equipment? A lot of visual sightings. Was it the same sort of thing, a circle with a square inside of it?

00:23:09 Speaker_07
Or solid spheres, some elongated spheres, kind of more tic-tac shape, if you will. And during that workup cycle, that's when we recorded what's now known as the Gimbal and GoFast video.

00:23:24 Speaker_07
And they almost had to shut that entire exercise down because there were multiple near misses while we were trying to do this. And this is this is a big deal.

00:23:30 Speaker_07
If they cancel that training mission, that means the people that are deployed, since you have to be there longer, they have to wait longer. So there's a lot of downstream effects. So pretty big deal to even consider canceling a training, a training.

00:23:46 Speaker_07
actually, you know, our training mission like this. So again, we, you know, we filed it up, we didn't know what else to do with it. And we went back to our training left on deployment.

00:23:57 Speaker_07
In 2017, a New York Times article came out, I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi, and for the Navy still. And

00:24:07 Speaker_07
on you know front page in New York Times lo and behold there are the video of the gimbal and the go fast with the pilots audio on there that we've heard now and I'm like, holy shit, you know, like this is still going on massive deja vu as you might imagine and That I saw that as like a cry for help essentially that these videos now have been somewhat smuggled out They're on the front page in New York Times.

00:24:29 Speaker_03
And do we know how the gimbal or the go fast videos got leaked?

00:24:33 Speaker_07
My understanding is that work was done partially with Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon. So there was two videos that were attached, right? So when you record in the jet, it records two screens. It records... Can we show those, Jamie?

00:24:51 Speaker_03
Show those videos.

00:24:53 Speaker_07
So it records these two screens, right? And the bottom screen, is like a God's eye view with all your radar data. And the right one is your FLIR system. And when you watch that in the briefing room after they're stitched together like side by side.

00:25:08 Speaker_07
And that's what I saw, and that's how I built my understanding of this situation.

00:25:14 Speaker_03
So with the crosshairs, is that they're trying to lock in on it? So now they've locked in on it, right?

00:25:19 Speaker_07
Yeah. They weren't able to gain a lock in their air-to-air mode, so they actually had to degrade down to an air-to-surface mode, kind of a manual locking mode. And that's that box that you see.

00:25:29 Speaker_03
What is the difference?

00:25:31 Speaker_07
The air-to-air mode should essentially be looking exactly where the radar dropping them off and should automatically lock on it But in the method that you're seeing here the pilots manually slewing the sensor This is kind of like a last-ditch effort to get it And he's like restarting it and that's why the box keeps getting bigger and it's getting smaller.

00:25:48 Speaker_03
It's not capturing it What would be the difficulty like why is it difficult to lock on?

00:25:53 Speaker_07
We don't know. You know, one theory is that it's because it's relatively close to the ground and there's a lot of background, right, to confuse the sensor.

00:26:01 Speaker_03
But it's really... How far off the ocean is this supposed to be?

00:26:04 Speaker_07
It's somewhere around 10,000 feet or so. So it's really not that close. So it's really not a great explanation. But, yeah, you can see him try it there.

00:26:13 Speaker_03
Now, what do they estimate the size of this thing to be?

00:26:16 Speaker_07
I don't know if anyone has estimated a size, to be honest. From the pilot's perspective, they're not going to be able to make a real-time assessment of the size.

00:26:26 Speaker_03
Because how far above this thing are they?

00:26:31 Speaker_07
Well, they're about they're about five miles away or so five miles. Yeah, so you see that range 3.4 Right there that range is coming strictly from the AT FLIR sensor itself. It's not a very reliable indicator of the range That's what the radar is for.

00:26:47 Speaker_07
So although it says about 3.5 at 4.4 and then ticks down It's probably a little bit.

00:26:52 Speaker_03
What does that stand for RNG range? So the speed Is that on there anywhere of how fast this thing is going?

00:27:01 Speaker_07
So you have 170 V sub C right below the range, and that's indicating our relative velocity.

00:27:11 Speaker_03
And that's miles per hour or kilometers?

00:27:13 Speaker_07
It should be knots. So it's probably like 180, 190 miles per hour. No heat signature. Well, there is a heat differential anyway. So right now we're in white hot. So objects that are white are hotter objects in the background.

00:27:30 Speaker_03
I've used infrared binoculars before. It's pretty cool. You can see like raccoons and shit.

00:27:37 Speaker_07
So that's showing us that it's cooler than the surrounding environment for whatever reason.

00:27:44 Speaker_03
Which is very bizarre. Yeah. Something that's moving 170 whatever miles an hour.

00:27:48 Speaker_07
Yeah. And just to be clear, the 170 doesn't represent its raw speed.

00:27:54 Speaker_03
This is the gimbal video, which is different. Yep. And this one, does it show the speed of this?

00:28:00 Speaker_08
No, I don't think so.

00:28:05 Speaker_03
And this is the one that rotates. Yes, and when we're looking at this signature, we're looking at the does that represent something that's cooler than the outside area or or hotter Like what does that represent?

00:28:17 Speaker_03
This this one's black hot So this was this is showing us that it's hotter than the surrounding areas right now And would this be similar to what you would see if you saw a jet that was flying?

00:28:28 Speaker_07
No, I mean we've seen thousands of aircraft like that. I

00:28:31 Speaker_03
But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature, or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be accentuated?

00:28:39 Speaker_07
Yeah, you'd see the exhaust coming out of the back, you'd be able to see the skin of the aircraft itself. So the sensor is not great, but it's good enough where you can break out some pretty good detail on a jet. I mean, it looks like a jet.

00:28:51 Speaker_03
Right. Well, this definitely doesn't look like a jet. You know, it kind of looks like a flying saucer. And then it turns sideways, which is really weird. Is there anything on that that shows the speed?

00:29:07 Speaker_07
On the bottom left, you see 242 knots. That's how fast the aircraft that is recording is going. The pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the whim.

00:29:19 Speaker_07
And in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fighter aircraft around 100 knots or so at those speeds from looking at the radar data itself.

00:29:30 Speaker_03
So as far as you know, we don't have anything that moves like that.

00:29:36 Speaker_08
No.

00:29:37 Speaker_03
And we don't have anything that gives off a signature like that.

00:29:40 Speaker_08
No, no.

00:29:43 Speaker_03
And were they able to figure out where this is going or keep an eye on it? Or do we have sensors that can detect this for any length of time?

00:29:55 Speaker_07
The sensors on the ships themselves, if they were looking there, would be able to detect these objects, but we're not really linked into those people that are doing that on the boat.

00:30:04 Speaker_07
The pilots essentially took this upon themselves to go investigate this, and they reported to Intel when they came back, and that's where I saw the tapes.

00:30:13 Speaker_07
Whether the air traffic management guys on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects, I don't have that information. I was never in that information stream, but presumably they would.

00:30:26 Speaker_03
Is there a capability where, so if a fighter jet locks in on something like that, is there an additional source of some sort of satellite that they can team into or tune into where they can give them the coordinates and say, hey, this is at this exact coordinate and it's moving at this speed.

00:30:48 Speaker_03
Can you guys lock into that?

00:30:50 Speaker_07
No, not within the jet itself. We can share the data amongst jets. So if you were flying out there, and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information would be getting sent to other jets in the area.

00:31:05 Speaker_07
There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this fight.

00:31:15 Speaker_07
But it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself. And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right? They should have access to that same information that's being shared.

00:31:25 Speaker_03
Right, that's what I was getting to. Like, can the ship itself then lock in the coordinates with the satellite, or do we have that kind of capability?

00:31:32 Speaker_07
We don't, as pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will. You know, that's kind of like a different level than how we operate.

00:31:38 Speaker_07
So it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate, but we operate as like a self-contained expeditionary group. So I don't know if that's part of their protocol.

00:31:48 Speaker_03
So they wouldn't even refer to you or discuss it with you? Yeah. Did anybody discuss any of these things with you?

00:31:53 Speaker_03
Like, when you're talking about the safety hazard, you know, you've got this clear circle with a black square inside of it, and they're flying in this very unusual way. When you describe it to people, what's the feedback?

00:32:08 Speaker_07
Honestly, most people just kind of looked off into space.

00:32:11 Speaker_03
Really?

00:32:12 Speaker_07
Yeah, like, huh, that's interesting.

00:32:14 Speaker_03
That's fucking weird.

00:32:15 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:32:16 Speaker_03
Did they give you the impression that this is not surprising?

00:32:20 Speaker_07
Only once. So when we had the Gimbal captured, and just real quick, you know, the Gimbal and the GoFast happened within minutes of each other.

00:32:29 Speaker_03
The Gimbal- Two different things, but they happened within minutes of each other.

00:32:32 Speaker_07
Yeah, or the GoFast, there was multiple objects in a line formation called line of breast.

00:32:37 Speaker_03
Right, how many?

00:32:38 Speaker_07
Flying side by side, four. They were about a mile apart, flying in formation, doing what they're doing. The pilots were looking at that, had a hard time locking it, and then,

00:32:48 Speaker_07
They kind of brought their attention up to this other object that's basically co-altitude with them, and that's the gimbal video.

00:32:54 Speaker_07
And behind the gimbal, there was what they referred to as a fleet of objects, about four to six objects that were flying in a formation, like a tight formation, all within about a mile and a half of each other, like a V formation.

00:33:09 Speaker_07
And so they come, they turn, they get all discombobulated, and then they flow back out into a clean formation, making a 180-degree turn. And then the gimbal object, which we see start to rotate, that's the moment it actually changes direction, right?

00:33:23 Speaker_07
So it's proceeding behind this formation. It turns. The gimbal does its kind of, you know, its maneuver, and then it starts trailing in the opposite direction.

00:33:33 Speaker_07
So you got, you know, maybe 10, 12 objects that are out there operating in this area, east of the ship, we're already 300 miles out there. And so where do they come from? You know, what are they doing? Are they are they assessing our fight?

00:33:46 Speaker_07
Are they enemy combatants? You know, it's, it's, you know, for me, this is the conversation that I've been trying to have for almost 10 years now about the seriousness of having these unknown objects in our airspace.

00:34:00 Speaker_07
It's a security risk, whether, you know, they come from little green men or whether they come from our adversaries or if they just remain unknown.

00:34:07 Speaker_07
And that's kind of the state we're living in right now with what's happening over in New Jersey and elsewhere. We're having this massive uncertainty about what these objects are. There's a lot of rumors. It's causing fear and panic.

00:34:17 Speaker_07
And once again, the Biden administration and the Pentagon are unwilling to have a conversation with the American people and share what information they have.

00:34:25 Speaker_03
Why do you think that is, if you had to speculate?

00:34:29 Speaker_07
The biggest probability is they don't know.

00:34:34 Speaker_07
If this is something that they've been struggling with for all these years, and suddenly it's happening in a much larger capacity than it has in the past, they're not easily able to write it off, and they just don't have the answers.

00:34:48 Speaker_07
Or perhaps they do have the answers, but they fall under a category of information, much like these objects, that they're not willing to have a public conversation about it.

00:34:57 Speaker_03
What is the best footage of the New Jersey drones? Why New Jersey, by the way?

00:35:02 Speaker_07
I don't know.

00:35:03 Speaker_03
A lot of shipping. Also military base, right? Outside of Bell Labs, there's a military base. And what else? The proximity to New York City, I guess.

00:35:12 Speaker_07
New York, DC.

00:35:13 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:35:13 Speaker_07
I mean, there's a lot of big cities right there.

00:35:15 Speaker_03
Yeah. All pretty close. I've only seen a few interesting videos. And we're in this new realm of uncertainty when it comes to AI and it comes to computer generated images and video.

00:35:31 Speaker_03
It's like, I've seen so many, I've seen me, I've seen friends, I've seen so much stuff that's not real. I'm like, okay, I don't know what's real anymore.

00:35:38 Speaker_03
It's like, especially when it comes to something that's kind of blurry, it's in the sky and you got people on the ground. I've seen so many fake ones, you know, there's just, so many ones that people have generated.

00:35:49 Speaker_03
You know, I'm friends with Jeremy Korbel, and Jeremy, I always send him, like, what the fuck is this? You know, I'll send some stuff to him. Is this bullshit? And, you know, he's very good at, like, we don't really know.

00:36:00 Speaker_03
I am very suspicious because of this. This is what we know. Like, let me send you some things that I know are not fake, but we still don't know what they are and see the difference.

00:36:11 Speaker_03
And so we'll have these long conversations and text message or phone calls about stuff like that. There's not one person you can go to.

00:36:22 Speaker_03
I mean, you have your people that are dismissing everything and think it's just hobbyists and crazy people, but if they're not giving off signatures that are standard with these normal drones, like these heat signatures, and they're able to stay in the sky for hours and hours at a time, just that alone points to, at least if it's not our adversaries, if it's domestic,

00:36:44 Speaker_03
Superior technology that we're not even aware of right now. I mean, how are they staying in the sky for five hours? Like what is the if you got like a top of the food chain drone and who was it that is explaining to us the issue?

00:36:57 Speaker_03
With why China has superior drone technology has something to do with the FAA was it Andreessen? Well, someone was explaining the reason why most of these like high-end max it might have actually been a green room conversation Yeah Yeah.

00:37:14 Speaker_03
So that the FAA and the rules and regulations have sort of stifled the development and the improvement of these domestic drones. And so most of the hobbyist drones are coming from China. And China, if you haven't seen, has

00:37:30 Speaker_03
fucking incredible displays of drones. Yeah, where they do like a drag in the sky. It's amazing. And it is because of regulations.

00:37:41 Speaker_03
It's because of the FAA dragging their heels, being incompetent, or at least being overwhelmed, where this has not been able to progress domestically the way it's been able to do in China. And so that alone seems like a giant security threat.

00:37:58 Speaker_03
The fact that China has had just full integration with the government and been able to have this technological innovation that allows their drones to be like super powerful, like what they're able to do with these displays in the sky, unbelievable, like really wild stuff to see that seems like many, many leaps above what we can do.

00:38:21 Speaker_07
And, you know, the faux firework displays that these things put on are just one part of the puzzle, right? Because warfare is changing. It's changing drastically.

00:38:33 Speaker_07
And this is something I've tried to raise the alarm bells on before the Ukraine war, but we're seeing it now.

00:38:39 Speaker_07
You know, warfare is going to these highly mobile, nontraditional platforms where you can have, you know, a group of guys that are, you know, basically teenagers now going out and conducting operations with these small drones.

00:38:52 Speaker_07
And, you know, God forbid that an adversarial nation is now employing those technologies here. in the United States, and if it was Russia, if it was China, and they were doing it directly, that'd be the equivalent of a declaration of war.

00:39:06 Speaker_07
I mean, they're essentially invading our land, right? Is there, you know, some avenue where they might be hiring criminal gangs in some way to do this in order to create a level of Deniability for them.

00:39:19 Speaker_07
I don't know but I'm certain that China nations are watching this unfold very carefully and Detecting the gaps in our homeland defense systems, right?

00:39:28 Speaker_07
I mean, this is this is a major issue war is changing and there are a lot of companies that You know within the private sector and of course within you know, the normal, you know defense contractor world that is building capabilities to

00:39:42 Speaker_07
to be able to detect and mitigate drones, whether it's kinetically or through electronic warfare, but we're not employing those.

00:39:48 Speaker_07
And oh, by the way, the electronic warfare measures that have been employed against the New Jersey drones have been ineffective.

00:39:57 Speaker_07
So they have tried to take these out with non-kinetic options, disabling their navigational systems, otherwise trying to fry them, bring them down, has not been effective.

00:40:06 Speaker_03
That's not good.

00:40:07 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:40:08 Speaker_03
No, that's very concerning. So is there any good footage that you could point to?

00:40:16 Speaker_02
I don't even know where to look I've looked there's people on the news that have reported it But the one clip I was looking at they're just showing a plane so like that's not good I've just found one, but it looks like a guy in the woods.

00:40:27 Speaker_02
I don't know what the video is you know Yeah, that's the problem when they took it. I don't know when they shot it They're saying it was last night, but it could have it could have been right.

00:40:36 Speaker_03
Yeah, it could be bullshit But this is part of the problem with this weird world that we're living in right now with fake information. It's so difficult to figure out what the hell's going on.

00:40:47 Speaker_03
Did I send you that video, Jamie, of that guy where he's CEO of a drone manufacturing company? This is the guy that made me the most nervous. I'll send it to you right now.

00:40:58 Speaker_03
This guy made me the most nervous because this guy is talking about how this, whatever the hell this stuff is, He believes it's looking for a nuke. I'll send this to you, Jamie. To the thing you tweeted? No. Okay. Did I? I don't know. Maybe. This guy.

00:41:18 Speaker_03
CEO of a drone manufacturing company who has government contracts. But the people you're talking to don't say it's this. That's correct. So listen to what this guy's saying.

00:41:30 Speaker_05
CEO of Saxon Aerospace here in Wichita, Kansas. I'm not normally a tick-tock kind of a guy.

00:41:39 Speaker_05
I like watching this stuff every once in a while but I'm a manufacturer of unmanned aircraft military-grade Unmanned aircraft as you can see one of my systems here There's all of these mysterious drones going on off the east coast and as a as a professional as a subject matter expert

00:42:00 Speaker_05
I wanted to give you all my opinion on what I think could be going on with these drones. I don't particularly believe that these have a nefarious intent. I could be wrong, but I want to give you the truth and what I believe.

00:42:15 Speaker_05
It's my own opinion and I've not bounced this off of anybody. So, you know, if you think it's bullshit, whatever, that's cool. You know, I don't want to spread misinformation as we know that There's a lot of that going around.

00:42:30 Speaker_05
But anyway, back in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan had dismantled the nuclear program. And there were, with Russia, there were countless nuclear missiles that were disarmed and disposed of. Well, there were Over 80, I believe.

00:42:54 Speaker_05
There were over 80 nuclear warheads that were in Ukraine that came up missing. We don't know where they are. Maybe somebody does, but nobody really knows where these are.

00:43:09 Speaker_05
And I speak with some pretty high-level government officials on this stuff, and it seems as though that is the case. So I spoke to a gentleman.

00:43:22 Speaker_05
a few months ago, who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which they had their ears closed, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on.

00:43:38 Speaker_05
He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine. And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States, okay? That is a very serious deal.

00:43:53 Speaker_05
And everyone knows that the United States government, this administration, is pushing to get into a war with Russia. We all know that. We all feel it. We all see it. We'll back up a few years.

00:44:10 Speaker_05
Do you all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate 70 corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas, and out into Missouri?

00:44:21 Speaker_05
Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material because there had been some material that had come up missing here in the United States. And they felt like it was high probability that it would...

00:44:40 Speaker_05
nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the interstate 70 corridor heading east or west or south. So, from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material.

00:44:57 Speaker_05
Now, drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night.

00:45:05 Speaker_05
unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys, or looking for a victim, a search and rescue victim, or law enforcement, or some type of military project, right?

00:45:26 Speaker_05
There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really, okay? Because they don't see shit. Unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff. You need to do mapping during the day.

00:45:42 Speaker_05
If you're going to do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day. The only reason why you would ever fly an unmanned aircraft at night is if you're looking for something, whether it be a person or trying to smell gas.

00:46:00 Speaker_05
We have methane gas detection systems. that can detect gas leaks in pipelines.

00:46:10 Speaker_05
You really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks, just simply because the only way you're actually going to find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature.

00:46:24 Speaker_05
Because thermal imaging, it creates a digital image based off the temperature variance. So whatever's different in temperature, it creates an image. gas, usually gas leaks so slow that it goes quickly into ambient before you can even see it.

00:46:45 Speaker_05
So we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks. We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material. So with this gentleman that I had spoken with, who was trying to raise the alarm,

00:47:03 Speaker_05
to try to get somebody in the government to say, hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead. None of that ever happened. They knew that warhead was on its way to the United States. That's all that ever came of it.

00:47:19 Speaker_05
Nothing ever happened. This government did not do anything at all to help this gentleman raise the alarm and raise awareness that there is a very deadly weapon on its way to the United States.

00:47:35 Speaker_03
No. Well, go ahead. Unless maybe he's got something else.

00:47:39 Speaker_02
When I was looking this up, we have six nuclear heads that we've lost. The United States has. One of them has been gone for like 71 years or something like that.

00:47:47 Speaker_03
Oh, wonderful.

00:47:49 Speaker_02
Didn't know that.

00:47:50 Speaker_03
Wonderful. Yeah. Maybe they'll find them. I mean, there's probably a couple in the bottom of the ocean somewhere someone's going to find.

00:47:57 Speaker_07
Yeah, I'm sure they're sitting there.

00:47:59 Speaker_03
I mean, wasn't there like a Russian submarine that sank and they lied to us about it? Wasn't that, can neither confirm nor deny? Isn't that where that came from?

00:48:07 Speaker_08
I'm not familiar, is that?

00:48:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, that was from a Radiolab podcast. That term, can neither confirm nor deny, was one of those things where they had to answer a question, but they didn't want to answer it, so they said we can neither confirm nor deny. That's the answer, yeah.

00:48:24 Speaker_03
And so that has become a way Yeah, the GLOMAR response refers to a covert CIA operation where a ship named the Hughes-GLOMAR Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine.

00:48:35 Speaker_03
When questioned about the operation, the agency responded with, can neither confirm nor deny.

00:48:41 Speaker_03
Implication when someone says can either confirm nor deny they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter leaving the question unanswered So they answered it without answering it because they were compelled to answer and they said we can either confirm nor deny Which is interesting because like if you're like in a Senate hearing and someone says something like that, like what do you?

00:49:00 Speaker_03
Now I know you're being sneaky. What did you say? What did you just say? What do you mean you can neither confirm nor deny? Shut the fuck up with all those words. You can't use all those words anymore. You're being tricky.

00:49:10 Speaker_03
So I want you to tell me what you know. Say it like that, you know? Tell me what you know. What do you know?

00:49:16 Speaker_07
Well, I mean watching that video, you know, I think there's a few pieces that are still outstanding, connections that are outstanding for me.

00:49:24 Speaker_07
A supposed US citizen physically touched a nuclear weapon that was then lost and he knew exactly where it was going somehow.

00:49:35 Speaker_03
Why was he there? Why was he touching it?

00:49:38 Speaker_07
Why was he touching it was why would you touch it was he amongst enemies? And they were carting the weapon off.

00:49:43 Speaker_07
He just got his fingers on it or even like doing an x-ray And then the jump is that that weapon eventually ended up somewhere on the eastern seaboard and The people that would be responsible for investigating such an issue or not even aware of it even while somehow our government is flying hundreds of drones around to detect it so

00:50:06 Speaker_07
It's compelling. It's interesting. But I don't know if it connects. I think there's a few connections short of being able to say that's exactly what's going on here, especially after the conversations I've had. Yeah.

00:50:17 Speaker_03
My other thought on that would be if you are a military contractor and you design and implement drone systems. How much do they tell you about foreign policy? Why would they tell you about those type of things if you did raise an alarm?

00:50:34 Speaker_03
How much information would this guy be privy to?

00:50:36 Speaker_07
Yeah, very little. It'd be very specific to his actual responsibilities, his engineering work.

00:50:42 Speaker_03
Right. Whereas, like, I can call you and you actually need to fucking see these things. It's kind of a different, you know, different connection to the information than this guy has.

00:50:54 Speaker_07
And he seems nervous, you know, I mean. Yeah.

00:50:57 Speaker_03
Well, he should be. He may truly believe that. He's spilling the beans. Yeah. He's saying a bunch of stuff that I don't think you're supposed to be saying anyway. Like, why are you saying that?

00:51:03 Speaker_03
Like, I get if you really did believe that, that you would want everyone to know that there's a nuclear warhead missing, but... The other thing that I keep hearing is that the government is not telling us that these are ours.

00:51:17 Speaker_03
They are ours, but not telling us that these are ours because whatever they're looking for would cause mass panic.

00:51:26 Speaker_07
What's on the plate then after weapons of mass destruction? Right.

00:51:33 Speaker_03
Yeah, what is on the plate? I mean, in my eyes, nothing. Like, that's it, right? That's the thing that everybody would really be worried about.

00:51:40 Speaker_03
The second thing would be that our adversaries are using these things to siphon off information, that it's like some mass Wi-Fi router that's flying over cities and sucking up everybody's passwords.

00:51:52 Speaker_03
As we move into this new, very bizarre realm of AI and now quantum computing, I had a conversation with someone last night who was explaining to me how cryptography and encryption and all this stuff is literally on the verge of being obsolete and that this is going to put the financial markets into a chaos.

00:52:12 Speaker_03
All of your passwords, everybody's email, everything is out the window. There's no more encryption. It's not even going to be possible. These things are solving

00:52:22 Speaker_03
Mark Andreessen explained it this way, that these quantum computers are solving equations that

00:52:31 Speaker_03
If you took every atom in the universe and converted it into computing power, the time it would take to solve these equations would be longer than the time that the universe would exist before it died of heat death.

00:52:50 Speaker_03
And they're able to do it in minutes.

00:52:53 Speaker_03
So the concept is, and this is where it gets super weird, that this is proof of the multiverse because these computers are using the computing power of perhaps infinite parallel universes simultaneously to achieve these answers.

00:53:16 Speaker_03
Which is like, what are you saying? Like, what the fuck did you just say? Did you just say that if you took every molecule in the universe and converted it into computing power, it wouldn't be able to do this?

00:53:28 Speaker_03
This thing that you have in a fucking warehouse somewhere? That this thing has more computational power in this, it's like as big as this room, than the fucking universe, if it was a computer? What are you saying?

00:53:42 Speaker_03
And you're saying this is the proof of the multiverse? What does that even fucking mean? And what happens if China gets this online? If we're able to do these like equations, right?

00:53:53 Speaker_03
It's kind of almost like proof of concept of the technology being efficient or efficacious. If they're able to do that,

00:54:02 Speaker_03
What if someone is more advanced than us and gets this connected to AI and implements some sort of a strategy for complete global domination of power grids, financial markets, completely takes control of assets, closes down government computers, locks up databases, deletes any information that's pertinent to

00:54:24 Speaker_03
Who knows what? Power grid, fucking informational structures like satellites, cell phones, all of our radio signals. It shuts everything down. It shuts it all down. We're fucking helpless. Most cars have computers in them.

00:54:42 Speaker_03
Most people don't even know this. Your car has a computer in it. When you have a Chevy and you bring it into the dealership, they plug it in to see what's going on. If something shuts those off, no cars work. Everything's open. Everything's fucked.

00:54:56 Speaker_03
The only you have old cars. That's it. Everybody's like Cuba. Everyone's driving around like these ancient parts. Yeah. I mean, we'd basically have to go back to carburetors, all the electronic fuel injection, all that shit done. It's all done.

00:55:09 Speaker_07
My understanding is on an ECU. My understanding is that this isn't this is something China's been looking forward to. So what I mean by that is that they have not just been working on this technology in order to break our encryption now.

00:55:22 Speaker_07
but have been storing our encrypted data from in the past, such that when they do have that breakthrough, they have a lot of data to be able to utilize it on, not just what's happening now.

00:55:34 Speaker_03
I know this is absolutely happening because my friend, my friend Bobby, owns the Coda, the racetrack in town. And when they had the Formula One race at his racetrack, they found these boxes that were connected to their

00:55:50 Speaker_03
this Wi-Fi system and these boxes were outside so the public Wi-Fi system had been compromised by these data sucking boxes and so they called in Homeland Security they had them remove the whole deal but like someone had gotten to the racetrack and physically connected these boxes to a public Wi-Fi system

00:56:11 Speaker_03
How many times is that going on where people don't notice it? This is not the first time they've done it. They picked a race in Austin. Yeah, we're gonna get all those fucking race fans, suck up all their data. It doesn't even make any sense, right?

00:56:24 Speaker_03
This is something that's probably been implemented before. It's like, what are they doing with that data?

00:56:28 Speaker_07
I think they typically refer to that as a man-in-the-middle attack.

00:56:31 Speaker_07
So you think you're connecting to the regular Wi-Fi, but you're actually connecting to the adversary's Wi-Fi, sending your data through there, and then they send that to the original box that you thought you're communicating with.

00:56:43 Speaker_07
And so they get all the information.

00:56:45 Speaker_03
So all your passwords, anything you're sending, yeah. Exactly. PayPal, yeah.

00:56:51 Speaker_07
That's how they try to crack the Tor network as well.

00:56:54 Speaker_03
Really?

00:56:54 Speaker_07
If you're familiar with that, yeah, by setting up their own servers essentially to serve as a man-in-the-middle attack.

00:56:59 Speaker_07
But, you know, back to your point about China trying to work on quantum computing, on AI, you know, I think China is probably one of the biggest motivating factors that the government has right now for opening up the conversation on UAP. Right?

00:57:13 Speaker_07
So we haven't had this peer threat that we have to worry about that has a totally different investment government structure than we have. Right?

00:57:22 Speaker_07
So in the United States, we have this capitalist market, and we have innovations that break out through that model, like open AI. But there are some capabilities where they are not appetizing to the market itself. Right?

00:57:35 Speaker_07
For example, how do we just suddenly stand up a chip fabrication facility in the United States that competes with the operations in Taiwan, right? It's not something that a VC is going to invest in. It's going to take billions and billions of dollars.

00:57:48 Speaker_03
And it could fail.

00:57:49 Speaker_07
Exactly.

00:57:50 Speaker_03
Like the Samsung one that they put here.

00:57:52 Speaker_07
Exactly. Well, they did that because the government took a new approach. They stepped in and said, we're going to financially support this. We're going to open up the piggy banks. We're going to help with regulations and laws.

00:58:02 Speaker_07
And we're going to make this happen as soon as practically possible. That's the model that China uses all the time, right? They see something, they go for it, they invest the money, they invest the resources.

00:58:13 Speaker_07
There's a risk with that, you could be wrong about the efficacy of the technology that you're trying to put forward, it could be strategically misaligned.

00:58:21 Speaker_07
But if China is having the same issues with the UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.

00:58:33 Speaker_07
And the fact that this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better, I think there is this pressure right now within the U.S.

00:58:40 Speaker_07
government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community, into this problem, if it's still just buried in a classified area, then we're gonna get out-competed by China that is able to dump all these resources into it.

00:58:59 Speaker_03
How do you do that, though, if these people that create these things are motivated by money, if they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations?

00:59:11 Speaker_03
How can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not going to pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product?

00:59:20 Speaker_07
Yeah, I think it can. I mean, we have a model for that in the United States with deep technology and edge technology. You know, these are capabilities that don't fit into a normal VC's life cycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns.

00:59:32 Speaker_07
It might take 10 years before you have a product, right? And there's a lot of risk that they could fail along the way. But that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from.

00:59:42 Speaker_07
That's where we see very exotic technology being worked on, like advanced propulsion, communication systems, energy production. And every one of these has huge potential added value to our economy. I mean, to the level that AI has, right?

00:59:58 Speaker_07
So, you know, there's a couple ways you can go about it.

01:00:00 Speaker_07
You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to extended time to returns, which, you know, you got to fight market forces with that.

01:00:13 Speaker_07
You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer term technologies, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area.

01:00:28 Speaker_07
Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process So what I mean by that and you know this I've been working this problem for 10 years Joe I've thrown my entire self into this I've approached it, you know with my nonprofit American safe aerospace.

01:00:47 Speaker_07
I've been working in the private sector I've been collaborating with government and others and And there is a path where the capabilities to better understand this topic are aligned with our defensive needs, right?

01:01:00 Speaker_07
If we had total situational awareness of our airspace, that's a very valuable thing to the Department of Defense. And those are contracts you can win. Those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces.

01:01:13 Speaker_07
And then you keep working to be able to use those existing products in those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature.

01:01:26 Speaker_07
So you have to find these core technologies that the government wants, that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP.

01:01:34 Speaker_03
Now, the way you're describing this sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that. So like, how far behind the curve are we on the implementation of this technology?

01:01:45 Speaker_07
Well, that it's an unknown how far China is, you know, there's there are some some rumors and I'm not even going to mention them because they're too low confidence, but there does There does seem to be investment that's been made there are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover and

01:02:08 Speaker_03
Do you know about the anti-gravity lady that went missing, went back to China?

01:02:12 Speaker_07
Ning Li?

01:02:12 Speaker_03
Yeah. What's your thoughts on that type of technology?

01:02:17 Speaker_07
It's interesting. I was mentioning this out front with some of the guys earlier. There seems to be these interesting technologies that were once ridiculed back in the day, whether it be anti-gravity, cold fusion, others.

01:02:31 Speaker_03
It's a good way to get rid of stuff, ridicule it. Yeah. That's what they did with Avromectin.

01:02:34 Speaker_07
I'm very familiar with that strategy.

01:02:37 Speaker_03
Lab leak they did it with a lot of stuff.

01:02:39 Speaker_07
Yeah, exactly. Yeah And they all just went dark for like 30 40 years, but some of those capabilities seem to be Popping back up main scene mainstream scientific circles.

01:02:52 Speaker_03
Have you ever heard Eric Weinstein discuss this? Mm-hmm He has some very fucking, you got to get that tinfoil hat really tightly secured to your head.

01:03:02 Speaker_03
But he believes that this is one of the reasons why physics has sort of stalled over the last 20 years. He thinks some of the best minds have been moved into a project.

01:03:14 Speaker_03
and that it very well might be something along these lines, something along some like super advanced propulsion system.

01:03:23 Speaker_07
Marc Anderson had the same conversation with the White House, right? Talking about classifying AI technology in math and that they've done it before.

01:03:31 Speaker_03
What is this? Justin, Trump says he's staying away from his New Jersey golf club amid the drone sightings. The government doesn't know what's happening. Our military knows.

01:03:40 Speaker_02
You said they know what's happening.

01:03:42 Speaker_03
Oh, the government knows what's happening. Our military knows where they took off from. They know where it came from and where it went. Something strange is going on. Play the video. Yeah, sure. Let's hear it.

01:03:52 Speaker_01
The government knows what is happening. Our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment.

01:04:10 Speaker_01
And I think they'd be better off saying what it is our military knows and our President knows. And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy, because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out.

01:04:23 Speaker_01
Even if they were late, they'd blast it. Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people. And they should, because the people are really — I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster. Want to know the truth?

01:04:36 Speaker_01
They're very — they're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip. The Press. Have you received an intelligence briefing on the drone?

01:04:48 Speaker_04
The President. I don't want to comment on that.

01:04:49 Speaker_01
The Press.

01:04:49 Speaker_04
Two quick questions. First, on vaccines,

01:04:58 Speaker_07
We can figure this out Joe like I said, it's a hard problem, but it's not an unsolvable problem Like there are technologies that we could go out in the field within a couple weeks Employ see if we can find the RF signals and try to trace them back right we don't have to rely on the government for us Let's do it

01:05:16 Speaker_07
Well, how would we do it? Well, come join Americans for Safe Aerospace. What do I have to do? Come to my website, safeaerospace.org. We'll go out there.

01:05:24 Speaker_03
Go to that website. Let's see what we're going to do.

01:05:27 Speaker_07
We're almost the largest UAP organization in the world right now.

01:05:30 Speaker_03
Really?

01:05:30 Speaker_07
And, you know, when I talk to people in Congress and the executive branch, you know, I point to them and say, hey, you know, we're 13,588 people care about this issue. Right.

01:05:41 Speaker_07
This allows us to be able to go in there and talk seriously about this conversation.

01:05:46 Speaker_03
So, Jamie, sign up. Put in your email there don't show the world your email though Jesus Christ They're gonna know Jamie.

01:05:54 Speaker_03
They're gonna hear the amount of clicks that you make These fuckers they they're very clever We get us to the largest UAP organization world right now in this in this show Joe I Well, there you go. Now we're 13,589. Congratulations, Jamie.

01:06:11 Speaker_03
So what would you do? So now that you've joined, what can you do?

01:06:14 Speaker_07
We've been working with drone operators.

01:06:18 Speaker_03
Oh boy, what does your submit report inbox look like? How many schizophrenics are in there?

01:06:24 Speaker_07
Well, you know, it's not too bad, honestly. Really? You occasionally get, you know, your people that are questionable.

01:06:32 Speaker_03
How do you separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were?

01:06:35 Speaker_07
It's pretty easy. You know, we focus on commercial aviators, military aviators, veterans. We receive reports from the random person on the ground. But what's really interesting

01:06:45 Speaker_07
Because of the work we've been doing, so many people, so many pilots have felt more comfortable reporting. Every major airline is seeing this. I've talked with pilots from every major airline.

01:06:55 Speaker_07
Some of them are standing up their own UAP working groups within their airlines to be able to report on this. I'm working closely with them on this.

01:07:03 Speaker_07
But what's interesting is we get these reports from pilots, and we can often then see similarities or even perhaps the exact same object that's being reported by people on the ground.

01:07:15 Speaker_07
So one particular example over Atlanta Airport a few years ago, there was a relatively large object, brightly lit, about 8,000 feet over Atlanta. Four or five commercial airliners called it in. ATC didn't know what it was.

01:07:30 Speaker_07
The object started to accelerate level. due south, and then to what I call like conventional speeds as fast as an airliner, and then took off much faster, continuing due south and all these pilots witnessed it. We received those reports.

01:07:45 Speaker_07
And then the next day, we received a report from, you know, a random lady in Florida that happened to be basically due south from Atlanta. She took a picture of the object exact same object. All right, so do we have access to that photo?

01:07:58 Speaker_07
I do Can we see it? I don't have it.

01:08:00 Speaker_03
I could I could I could pull it on your fucking screen I'll text it to you when you have that Jamie wouldn't that be like your wallpaper?

01:08:09 Speaker_03
I Would have that I would have it like psych, you know what Apple you could cycle from a bunch of wallpapers I'd put my kids on when I get home, but through the day Yeah, you can have a lot of that to me if you I'd have my dog out of the UFO Wi-Fi

01:08:25 Speaker_07
But you know get matching the Wi-Fi we can we can like we can't figure this out Joe like I talked with Engineer scientists CEOs at drone companies counter drone companies like we can bring the capabilities we could be out there in two weeks Detecting and tracking these objects.

01:08:39 Speaker_03
What do you think about what Trump is saying though that they already do know and that they have tracked it But the government just does not want to tell us so what's that leave us in I? Well, that leaves us either an enemy or us, right?

01:08:51 Speaker_03
So it either leaves us they're not concerned because this is some thing that they're doing with us. What if they're trying to get us comfortable because they know that some real UAPs are on the way? You want to go all the way out there.

01:09:06 Speaker_03
If you really wanted to get people relaxed to the idea of flying saucers, like legitimate, whatever the hell they are, wherever the hell they're from, if you knew that was coming and you didn't want mass panic, what would you do?

01:09:20 Speaker_03
You would trickle it in. You would trickle it in slowly. You'd have a bunch of drones hovering over cities for weeks and months at a time. You would get people really accustomed to the news cycle having UAPs in it, and then real ones show up.

01:09:38 Speaker_03
It doesn't feel like a trickle right now, though. Well, you would do it this way. It's a trickle for me. I'm not seeing shit, okay? I'm out here in Texas. We were looking at the sky last night. We went to the Mothership Christmas party. No UFOs.

01:09:53 Speaker_03
So it's a trickle relatively to the world. Right? Like you have a bunch of them hovering over New Jersey, you have a few of them in San Diego, you have them in different areas.

01:10:04 Speaker_03
If you knew that UAPs were coming, and you were in the government, and you said, what, what can we do? Well, you'd probably bring in psychologists, and they would, these psychologists would explain

01:10:16 Speaker_03
human patterns of reacting to change in environments Especially radical changes in civilization and culture and like what can be done to mitigate the brutality of this process like the ultimate Mass freakout that's going to come if UFOs come get people just so accustomed to UFO like the mask thing right sounds like a ridiculous comparison but like

01:10:41 Speaker_03
Five years ago, if people were walking around wearing masks, you'd go, what is going on? What's happening here? It would make you uncomfortable. If someone walked into a bank with a mask on, you're like, what the fuck? Are you crazy?

01:10:54 Speaker_03
Now you have to do it. It's this very strange. So it took a while, but then it became normal.

01:11:01 Speaker_08
Yeah.

01:11:02 Speaker_03
If they wanted to make it normal that things are in the sky, you put things in the sky. And you put a bunch of things in the sky, and you don't explain it, and you have them there all the time.

01:11:12 Speaker_03
And you let people speculate, and you put a lot of wild theories. Maybe they're looking for a nuke. Oh, they're looking for a nuke. Bobby heard they're looking for a nuke. Timmy got an email. Don't worry, it's just aliens, not a nuke.

01:11:22 Speaker_03
Well, it's probably not even. It's probably our shit. You know, some unknown agency is involved in this. The government's not concerned because they know exactly what's happening. That's why there's not shooting them down.

01:11:38 Speaker_03
That's why they're not scrambling jets. That's why they're not doing all these things. Trump's asking why they're doing this thing.

01:11:44 Speaker_03
If you knew something was coming, if you knew that these things that you're seeing floating in the sky that are a clear circle with a black square inside of it and they can hover at 120 knots completely still, which doesn't even make any sense, no heat signature, what the fuck is that?

01:11:59 Speaker_03
And what if a bunch of them are coming? Bunch of shit in the sky freak these dummies out.

01:12:04 Speaker_03
That's what I would do I would get all of our best drones and just fly them around Hover over cities hover over LaGuardia hover over the White House who gives a fuck just get people weirded out and get them Accustomed to UFOs you ever see district 9.

01:12:19 Speaker_03
Yeah, we see that movie great movie, right? Yeah, really fucking fun movie But it's kind of what would happen If aliens were here, and there's like alien camps, and we had them, we would just get used to it after a while. We get used to shit.

01:12:34 Speaker_03
The way we live is so entirely alien to people that lived just 200 years ago, that if you brought someone from the pioneer days, and you put them in a Tesla, and then you drove them to the movie theater, and then you took them to a concert, they'd be like, what the fuck is going on?

01:12:53 Speaker_03
It would and then you showed him your phone. You're like, I'm gonna FaceTime my mom It's crazy, but we're accustomed to it. Yeah, we're so accustomed to it that people tell you to get off your phone Hey get off your phone.

01:13:08 Speaker_03
You're always on your phone live your life get off your phone you're so connected to this bizarre new world that we live in and But it's a custom. We're accustomed to it. It's normal. It's completely normalized.

01:13:19 Speaker_03
If I wanted to normalize the idea of us being invaded, I just want to put stuff in the sky all the time, fly around with experimental aircrafts, do like a low trajectory over a city and some new stealth bomber. Freak these fucking people out.

01:13:36 Speaker_03
Get them used to being freaked out. And then when the real ones come, it's much less of a blow.

01:13:41 Speaker_07
Well, some politicians just as soon as yesterday Chuck Schumer Robert Garcia in the house They've started to kind of use the whole drone and or UAP in their messaging, right? They started to change their language. Did you get that photo Jesse?

01:13:57 Speaker_07
Jamie or Jamie? Sorry. It's a pull it up young Jesse. I Sent it a wrong guy. Maybe that's why

01:14:03 Speaker_02
We were talking about Jesse before, that's why. You can airdrop it to me, that'd probably be the fastest way.

01:14:07 Speaker_07
Yeah, it says it's waiting. Is it the Jamie MacBook Pro?

01:14:10 Speaker_02
Yeah, I have two. I'm looking at both of them. I didn't get anything.

01:14:16 Speaker_03
You want to just text it to me and I'll send it to him? Yeah.

01:14:19 Speaker_02
Okay. That works too.

01:14:22 Speaker_03
See, even with this fucking high-level technology that we have. They're shutting us down. They're shutting us down, bro. Yeah, I was thinking that last night. I was like, why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music?

01:14:34 Speaker_03
But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth. And if you have that Spotify thing on where you you're sharing, it's like, I forget what it's called.

01:14:44 Speaker_03
But like a bunch of people can contribute songs they can all like add to your little playlist while it's going on dangerous it fucks Yeah, it's dangerous All of its dangerous.

01:14:54 Speaker_03
I'm like that close to getting one of them crazy D. Googled phones, but I'm like How's that even work? They had a good one? I get it I think, you know, Eric Prince apparently has a good one. He's got something called the unplugged phone.

01:15:08 Speaker_03
It actually has a physical button you can switch where it deactivates the battery as well, like separates, like a little piece of plastic goes between where the battery connects.

01:15:17 Speaker_03
And so you're, because even if you shut your phone off, they can still listen to you. Like that sounds so crazy, but it is absolutely true. And you can't take your battery out of your phone anymore. You know, it's like a convenient thing.

01:15:31 Speaker_03
in order to make it waterproof, sorry. Your battery, and then it's also, it's like planned obsolescence. So your battery's gonna die, you're gonna need an iPhone 17, Ryan, come on. The only way they can sell new ones is if they all kinda look alike.

01:15:42 Speaker_03
I got a new Zoom feature, come on, you need this in your life. You need this new Zoom feature. You need that extra 50,000 megapixels or whatever the fuck it is. It's just, I don't know. I think privacy's kind of gone.

01:15:58 Speaker_03
And I think it's going to be super gone with these quantum computers. It's over. There's no privacy. And I think the real problem is the financial market. It's all numbers, right? It's all just ones and zeros.

01:16:12 Speaker_03
If somebody controls that before we do, if somebody breaks through with this type of technology and then just shuts all the other ones off, how many... Bitcoin to the rescue, maybe? I don't even know. Doesn't Bitcoin get compromised?

01:16:28 Speaker_03
Google says its breakthrough quantum chip can't break modern cryptography. They said it like this. No, it can't even break any of your codes. The Willa chip is not capable of breaking modern cryptography. I don't believe that, first of all.

01:16:47 Speaker_03
And second of all, my real concern is this is one step in this. We are about to go off of a technological cliff. This is one step. ChatGPT was one step. They're about to do ChatGPT 5, which is magnitudes

01:17:06 Speaker_03
greater power than chat gbt which is supposed to be like a giant leap chat okay and that ain't shit that ain't shit compared to agi which they think 2025 so artificial general intelligence and then connected to a quantum computer and google is literally talking about they have plans to put their own nuclear power plants to power their ai systems

01:17:29 Speaker_03
It needs so much power. They want three nuclear power plants. That's why what are you about to do? What are you doing? You fucking eggheads? What are you doing? Are you guys making God like what the fuck are you doing?

01:17:43 Speaker_03
Do you even know what you're doing this movie?

01:17:45 Speaker_06
I swear.

01:17:45 Speaker_03
It hasn't even been made yet. And the problem is, if you don't do it, our enemy's going to do it. And we're so shitty at communicating with other human beings all across the world.

01:17:56 Speaker_03
We've been stealing resources and overthrowing governments for so long that nobody trusts us.

01:18:01 Speaker_03
And then while all that's going on, we're in the middle of creating an artificial intelligence that's infinitely smarter than us and might be working in parallel universes.

01:18:10 Speaker_03
Like if you can do an equation, and you're telling me that this equation through these quantum computers is proof of a multiverse, what happens if AGI gets connected to the multiverse? Do you even know? Are you just doing it? Do you even know?

01:18:29 Speaker_03
Can you tell me what's the best case scenario, what's worst case scenario? Can you tell me what you've thought about? Or instead of just fucking all gas, no brakes, And everyone's all gas, no brakes.

01:18:41 Speaker_03
We're all fucking hot rodders on the highway, headed towards this weird thing that no one really knows what it's going to be. But everyone agrees it's the greatest technological breakthrough the human race has ever experienced.

01:18:54 Speaker_03
And it's happening so fast. And most people are like, what? What's going on? What are they doing over there?

01:18:58 Speaker_03
Most people, if they're not listening to podcasts, they're not on Twitter every day, and they're not on Facebook, and they're not really paying attention to this stuff, most people are blissfully unaware we're about to awaken a god.

01:19:12 Speaker_03
Blissfully unaware we're about to connect to some insane technology that hasn't even been, it's so insane that it's sort of like one of those things where somebody tries to tell you how many stars there are in the universe. You know what?

01:19:27 Speaker_03
Can't comprehend it. Your head goes, what does that mean? What's the number? What?

01:19:34 Speaker_03
When they were saying that it can compute something that all the world's supercomputers, it would take some septillion number of years to do, that it can do it in 15 minutes. What are you even saying? I don't even know what you just said.

01:19:51 Speaker_03
If you told me how many zeros to write, I could probably keep doing it until I got to the right amount of zeros. I don't know what the fuck that means. My brain's good for like 150, 500 people. That looks like about 3,000 people.

01:20:03 Speaker_03
I was at the Formula One racetrack. I'm like, how many people are in this? I was seeing Eminem. I'm like, how many people are here? I took a guess, like 50,000? I don't know. It's 110,000. I was rough by 50,000. My brain doesn't understand numbers.

01:20:16 Speaker_03
And then you get to millions. Imagine looking at a group of people. Oh, that's about two million. No, you can't do it. You can recognize like 150 people. It looks like about 150 people. When things get big, they just get too weird.

01:20:29 Speaker_03
And the universe is insanely big. Insanely big. So your brain just doesn't do it. It just, eh. Everybody's brain. Even the most, Neil deGrasse Tyson. You gotta get an astrophysicist. Get one of those guys.

01:20:43 Speaker_03
They're not gonna be able to, the brain's not built for it. So this thing is so much more powerful than even that Even the whole universe as a computer as a computer like that doesn't even make sense and they're just What are we doing

01:21:04 Speaker_07
We have AI, we have quantum, we have mysterious objects showing up on the coast. It does seem like a lot of things are converging right now.

01:21:13 Speaker_03
Well, if I was an advanced civilization that had already passed this stage, maybe this is like a common stage. Maybe this is just like how bees all over the world make beehives. They all do the same thing, right?

01:21:28 Speaker_03
Maybe this is a strange stage that intelligent life gets to when it reaches a point of technological sophistication where it can create an artificial version of a thinking being.

01:21:40 Speaker_03
And then that thinking being, of course, creates infinitely better versions of itself and figures out a way to harness power in a way that's just We can't even comprehend, which is what a quantum computer connected to AGI would be able to do.

01:21:54 Speaker_03
Maybe they know that this happens, and they're like, oh, it's about to happen. And so then they come. Wasn't there a meeting, some sort of a, there was another good tinfoil hat one, that was like, ooh, what are they talking about?

01:22:06 Speaker_03
There was some super top secret meeting with the people from the James Webb Telescope because of something they had discovered. There was some thing that they had seen that they decided, and I don't know what that means.

01:22:18 Speaker_03
You know, if you really wanted to get terrified, you'd say, oh, my God, an asteroid's coming. And it might be that. Or it might be there's some new thing that sort of rewrites the date.

01:22:30 Speaker_03
the beginning of the Big Bang which is they're kind of starting to talk about doing that now they're trying to there's some people that want to push the creation of the universe back to about like 22 billion years instead of like 13 point whatever it is now who cares why keep that secret you know that's not gonna freak people out but well that's I'm just being charitable I'm saying like or there's something out there or there's something that they know is headed our way you know it is I mean

01:23:00 Speaker_03
It is possible. We're doing it. We send things to Mars, right?

01:23:05 Speaker_03
And if we know that we're going through this thing right now, where we're about to create a AGI, we're about to implement quantum computing in this country, who knows what they're doing in other countries, if this is just like a thing that beings go through, and we get past this, and then we find another planet out there that's also dropping nuclear bombs on it,

01:23:30 Speaker_03
we would probably start circling that planet and making sure they don't fuck the whole thing up.

01:23:35 Speaker_03
I mean, it just seems like to be, it's probably insanely difficult to get intelligent life to the position that we're in right now in a volatile universe that's subject to natural disasters, asteroid impacts, super volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, all different things that could wipe out technology and bring it back to the caveman days, you know?

01:23:55 Speaker_03
If all that is known, and this is going on all throughout the universe, it would probably be in their best interest to sort of protect this investment in evolution and not have us knock back to the Stone Age and have to start all over again.

01:24:11 Speaker_03
Not have us nuke ourselves to the point where there's like 13 of us left, you know?

01:24:15 Speaker_07
Well, outside of us nuking ourselves, what do you think that the Trump administration, oncoming Trump administration, should do about the UAP topic? Have you thought about that?

01:24:26 Speaker_03
Yes, I have. He couldn't tell me anything. I tried to get it out of him. He wasn't he wouldn't tell me shit. You basically, you know, I've seen some things. I know some things Transparency, I think it's very important.

01:24:39 Speaker_03
I think to peel the fucking band-aid off Tell us what you're doing.

01:24:42 Speaker_03
Tell us what you know And if you can't I have to think that it's a military intelligence thing like you don't want the enemy to know what you're capable of which I totally understand and

01:24:53 Speaker_03
You know, if that's what's going on and that's why they can't tell us, that actually makes sense.

01:24:57 Speaker_03
But if it's not that, and it's that we are experiencing contact on a regular basis with something that we can't explain or understand, you don't have the right to that. You don't have the right to that information. That's not yours.

01:25:13 Speaker_03
That's the human races. People love to have fucking super top secrets. that no one else can know and you're in the end. But you can't have that one. You can't have that one.

01:25:24 Speaker_03
If you're telling me that you have to do it because we've developed some sort of gravity propulsion system that's infinitely superior to anything the Soviet Union has or the Russia has or China has, Fine. That's not my business.

01:25:36 Speaker_03
I'm not in the business of the military and national security. If that's why you can't tell us, I totally understand.

01:25:42 Speaker_03
But if you are in contact with fucking aliens and you know they exist, you know there's something that visits us, whether it's from another dimension or whether it's from another planet, that's not yours. That's not yours to tell.

01:25:55 Speaker_03
You can't treat us like fucking babies, like we can't handle this. If you actually have recovered a crashed UFO, look, I understand the implications of national security if you're trying to back-engineer that thing. I understand that.

01:26:09 Speaker_03
If you're saying, like, we have to get to this, if China gets this, this is a game-changer, we're fucked. I get it. Anything else, you have to tell us.

01:26:18 Speaker_03
Because it doesn't make any sense that you, some unelected official, some guy who's working in coordination with Raytheon or whatever the fuck you're doing, You can't keep that shit secret. That's the world's information. That should be a crime.

01:26:35 Speaker_03
This is something the human race needs to know. We didn't know it was bullshit.

01:26:41 Speaker_03
Again, if it's our stuff and we can't say anything about it because we can't let China know that we have that and we did huddle up these fucking physicists in some obscure college and we did create some wild shit that the

01:26:56 Speaker_03
rest of the world is not really ready for or doesn't understand yet, maybe we're way ahead of the curve in that. Other than that, you gotta fucking tell us. You gotta tell us. What the fuck is going on? I agree with you.

01:27:08 Speaker_03
And how is it happening, like, back in 2004? This is where it gets squirrely. Where it gets squirrely is, like, in 2004, we didn't even have a fucking iPhone, okay? So in 2004, everybody had flip phones. You were the shit if you had a Motorola Razr.

01:27:26 Speaker_03
You were living in the future. You know, so... That's not, it's not feasible that you would have something that moves like the Tic Tac in 2004. That's not feasible.

01:27:38 Speaker_03
That doesn't make any sense to me, that you have something that can go from 50,000 feet above sea level to 50 in a second. What? Like, what's it made out of that it doesn't disintegrate? Like, what is that? How fast is that?

01:27:53 Speaker_03
What the fuck does that even mean? That's space. You go from space to the surface of the water in a second? How?

01:28:01 Speaker_07
It's the equivalent of multiple nuclear bombs going off and energy expenditure.

01:28:06 Speaker_03
How is that possible in 2004? Like, that doesn't even make any sense to me. So, if it's not ours, and if it's not some back-engineered stuff, then what's going on?

01:28:15 Speaker_07
You know, I think there's two conversations that kind of go on in this topic, right? And I think they both help each other out.

01:28:23 Speaker_07
So there's, and you've been talking about it right now, they don't have the right to keep these essential pieces of knowledge from us about our universe, right? And I see that as the conversation around disclosure, right? What does the government know?

01:28:35 Speaker_07
What are they gonna reveal to us? And we can integrate it into our knowledge. But I think there's an as important side of the conversation called discovery, if you will, right?

01:28:45 Speaker_07
But what can we learn in the public sphere outside of the classification window that allows us to understand what's going on outside of the reins and control of the government itself? And I feel like they're mutually supportive, right?

01:28:58 Speaker_07
The more disclosure and conversation there is within government, the more that people are motivated on the outside to investigate this and research it and invest into it.

01:29:07 Speaker_07
And the more that that work is done, it pressures the disclosure side of the conversation to keep up with the conversation and share with it.

01:29:15 Speaker_07
Now, I don't know if we're going to get to a point of full disclosure like you just talked about without increased pressure on the discovery side, on the public side, because I think they would be content to keep that information quiet.

01:29:28 Speaker_03
I don't know if Trump would be content to do that, you know, and I don't know if Tulsi would be content to do that either. You know, if she's going to be, she's what, the director of national intelligence?

01:29:38 Speaker_07
If she's confirmed, yeah.

01:29:40 Speaker_03
If she's confirmed? I have a feeling she's going to tell people. But here's the thing, it's like what we were talking about before, if it is a national security issue, And fuck, how is it not? Right? Like if Bob Lazar is telling the truth, right?

01:29:55 Speaker_03
Let's go to the wackiest of the wacky ones, right? Because Bob's story, I don't mean because Bob's wacky. I mean because it's 1989. Okay, so we're in the 80s, right? Cars suck. Fucking, you know, fighter jets of the 1980s.

01:30:08 Speaker_03
Imagine like the fighter jets that you flew in comparison to a fighter jet from like 1983.

01:30:12 Speaker_07
Yeah, no internet really to speak of even back then.

01:30:16 Speaker_03
Yeah. There was like a few computers connected, right, by physical cords or something, probably. But that time period, we did not have what he was describing, if what he was describing is accurate.

01:30:31 Speaker_03
And then when you see that gimbal footage, that thing is moving exactly the way he described it. where he said, it's built like your classic flying, that's actually an image of it right there, that little model that we have. That's what he described.

01:30:51 Speaker_03
So this is what we're, 1989, he's saying that this thing, when it would fly, it would turn sideways.

01:31:00 Speaker_03
It would turn like 90 degrees, and that's where it would, whatever the fuck kind of generator that's inside of it, it would point it in a general direction it wanted to go. That's what the gimbal did. The gimbal turned in that way.

01:31:12 Speaker_03
And what he's describing in this reactor is some sort of an element, and it's element 115 in this. whatever, whoever has created this thing is a stable version of this element.

01:31:25 Speaker_03
And when it's blasted with radiation, it creates some sort of a warp in spacetime and in some way, whether it's gravity or whatever it does, it folds time and it just shoots off at insane rates of speed. But the things inside of it, I would imagine,

01:31:45 Speaker_03
aren't experiencing G-force the way it does the traditional propulsion system. It's the only way a biological thing could survive, right? But then I'm thinking, why would it even be biological?

01:31:57 Speaker_03
If it's so much more advanced than us, we're already creating artificial limbs. We're already creating artificial eyes. We're already putting neural links into people. And we're fucking apes. We're apes.

01:32:09 Speaker_03
And we're like, drill a fucking hole and stick some wires in there. Let's see what we can do to Timmy. Now Timmy can fucking use his eyeballs. Noah, the guy who was in there, was the first ever neural link patient. And his name's Noah, right?

01:32:25 Speaker_03
Knoll Nolan sorry no one cool guy.

01:32:29 Speaker_03
I just have too many names in my head no disrespect But he has a his you can use his eyeballs like a cursor like he can he says like an aimbot when he's playing video games So he plays video games better than people that can use their hands because he could Like he shoots like exactly where he's looking at which is nuts so how

01:32:51 Speaker_03
How many years have to pass, think about from like 2004 no iPhone to today what we've got and meta virtual reality sets, how many years have to pass before it's more effective to go through the world being completely integrated into like an artificial creation?

01:33:08 Speaker_03
Not much not much where we're cyborgs not much where they well, why would you want regular eyes your kid has regular eyes? That's crazy. Get them the new eyes.

01:33:18 Speaker_03
They have infrared Radar they can detect gases you can move away from you know, it's like safety. It's better for you You see better you never go blind when they go bad. They replace them.

01:33:29 Speaker_03
Everybody would just get the fake guys It's just like a jet right?

01:33:32 Speaker_07
I mean fighter jets. They used to be barreling around out there looking for objects, looking for targets, but we're able to integrate and update all the technology that allows us to interact with the world.

01:33:42 Speaker_07
It's not put right into our brain yet, although they are working on that.

01:33:46 Speaker_03
So maybe those things are what happens when technology and biology integrate over a long period of time. And they probably have eliminated all of our primate desires and weirdness that makes progress problematic.

01:34:06 Speaker_03
Greed and envy and trying to steal from resources from other countries and invasions and tribal behavior and manipulation and propaganda and lying. They probably can all read mine, so there's no more lying. And they've no need for

01:34:22 Speaker_03
Physical muscles, that's why they look like these little fucking spindly things. It kind of makes sense like that.

01:34:27 Speaker_03
That's where Evolution and technology if they merged that's what it would look like it would look like some weird fucking thing where they all look the same so nobody gives a shit and They control one of the things Lazar said these things have no Switches or buttons or there's no controls inside of them.

01:34:45 Speaker_03
So he thinks they're controlling them with their minds. Yeah their intention perhaps their mind is integrated And we think about that, like that sounds so crazy. But how much crazier is that than typing things with your thumb?

01:34:59 Speaker_03
It's not that much crazier than what you can do by FaceTiming someone, like sending video. It's not that crazy. It's not that crazy that your brain could eventually integrate completely with technology. Excuse me.

01:35:13 Speaker_03
And if you're a cyborg, then you have to worry about all the biological issues that we deal with, all the cancer and fucking pollutants. You don't have to worry about any of that shit.

01:35:23 Speaker_03
And then you're inside this ship that you're completely connected to, and you can move it in any way you want.

01:35:31 Speaker_07
Might as well be your body at that point.

01:35:33 Speaker_03
Might as well be your body. And that's probably the future. That's probably the future here on Earth, even if we don't fuck this up.

01:35:38 Speaker_07
You know, there's some, we talked about China a little bit, and, you know, some theoretical ways they might be investing in these deeper technologies.

01:35:46 Speaker_07
But, you know, I've spoken with people that are intimately involved in deep technology at the National Science Foundation and others, and what brought them into this conversation and realized that we were falling behind on these capabilities because they attended an international consortium.

01:36:02 Speaker_07
with believe it or not there were several members of from China there and They very specifically were asking for collaboration and some of these very deep technologies.

01:36:13 Speaker_07
So, you know, we talked about how You know gravity manipulation right kind of went dark for a while Well, they call it something slightly different now and it's something that China and others are actively researching.

01:36:24 Speaker_07
They call it extended electrodynamics same thing with

01:36:28 Speaker_03
What is the difference between saying gravity and extended electrodynamics?

01:36:32 Speaker_07
Yeah, so extended electrodynamics, electrodynamics essentially is a series of equations that we utilize to understand the electromagnetic spectrum.

01:36:41 Speaker_07
But there's like a large portion of those equations that we kind of just throw out because we don't utilize them in our normal engineering and scientific work.

01:36:49 Speaker_07
And so they're there, they're part of the equation, but we really don't know how to use them yet.

01:36:53 Speaker_07
And people are starting to think that by integrating the full understanding of electrodynamics to extended electrodynamics that there are gravitational effects that pop out that we can utilize for technology.

01:37:05 Speaker_08
Whoa.

01:37:06 Speaker_07
And they're actively researching that and actively asking for collaboration on that from China. Same thing with cold fusion.

01:37:12 Speaker_03
There's that lady that took off. That's what she was working on.

01:37:15 Speaker_07
Yeah. Yeah.

01:37:17 Speaker_03
Tell her story because it's a crazy one.

01:37:19 Speaker_07
Well, I might not know it as full as you do, but there have been a number of instances within the United States where people have been trying to do work to manipulate gravity through large concentrations of energy, electromagnetic effects, things of that nature.

01:37:35 Speaker_07
And very recently, I forget the year, I don't know if you have that information, Jamie, but

01:37:42 Speaker_07
I think it was 2013 or around that time frame where she had kind of a breakout paper, which she was claiming was utilizing some older techniques and she was able to modify the mass of an object, essentially the force of gravity upon it.

01:37:57 Speaker_07
My understanding is that paper went out and then she essentially disappeared for a number of months, like a year or two.

01:38:05 Speaker_03
It's like a movie.

01:38:06 Speaker_07
Yeah, and last I heard that she was Potentially they're still missing or there was some evidence that she might have gone to China.

01:38:15 Speaker_03
I thought she died I thought she went to China and then come back and died.

01:38:20 Speaker_07
Did she come back and die?

01:38:21 Speaker_03
She did die.

01:38:22 Speaker_06
Yeah

01:38:25 Speaker_03
Or did she? Working in the vault somewhere. With masks now, they're just like, maybe she was the tall Biden. She died, remember? The tall Biden, remember that guy?

01:38:35 Speaker_02
She died in 21. She got struck by a car in 2014, caused permanent brain damage, resulted in Alzheimer's, and then died in 21. Wow.

01:38:45 Speaker_03
Was Hillary Clinton driving that car?

01:38:50 Speaker_07
I was waiting for him to be like, yes. Well, there's another tech to Cold fusion, right? Yeah, they're 50 60 topic that was ridiculed went away Well, it's also now that the talk of certain fusion communities instead.

01:39:05 Speaker_07
They call it low energy nuclear reactions All right instead of having a large fission or fusion reaction where a lot of heat and radiation comes out you can do it slowly and incrementally and

01:39:15 Speaker_07
and it releases a lot of energy, but it doesn't have accompanying radiation or super high levels of random heat that comes out. And that's now something that very serious scientists within the fusion community are studying.

01:39:29 Speaker_07
And another technology that the China representative at that conference was asking for collaboration on. So are we investing in this? Is this work that we're doing in a dark lab?

01:39:40 Speaker_07
Because the open source community doesn't have the resources to be able to invest in this.

01:39:45 Speaker_03
Well, let me ask you this.

01:39:46 Speaker_03
So if you were the government, let's just say they, you know, if you were them and you wanted to work on some very, very advanced, if you had some knowledge that this stuff was possible, but you couldn't put it in the private sector because then it would get pilfered, it would get, you'd get infiltrated by Chinese spies, which happens all the time, right?

01:40:10 Speaker_03
Wouldn't you hide it away? Wouldn't you squirrel it away somewhere?

01:40:12 Speaker_03
Like if you're doing the right thing, if you're being intelligent about it, wouldn't you, if I wouldn't, it essentially can't be public because it is in the interest of national security because it's such a big deal.

01:40:26 Speaker_03
Like if they develop a propulsion system that is completely reliant on gravity. And they figure out, like, they're bending time, just flying places instantaneously.

01:40:39 Speaker_03
If that's the future of space travel, like, whoever gets there first, that's a big fucking deal. That's a really big deal.

01:40:45 Speaker_03
And that can't be out there in the public, where China could steal the data, or Russia could steal the data, or Iran could steal the, you can't have anybody get a hold of this.

01:40:54 Speaker_07
Well, here's the thing. If we're the sole superpower in the world,

01:40:58 Speaker_07
then I think it makes sense for us to hold that information back and develop it on our pace, because we're not worried about competitors that are going to catch up to us and potentially leapfrog us.

01:41:08 Speaker_07
But when we're operating in a world where we have near peer or peer adversaries, such as China, that do have the ability to potentially work on the same technology, that's where the model breaks down a bit, right?

01:41:20 Speaker_07
Because if we're artificially slowing our progress in order to maintain the secrecy,

01:41:26 Speaker_07
and someone is catching up to us, our only real solution at that point is to activate the millions of super smart and motivated people in our country to start pushing ourselves ahead, lest we get leapfrogged by countries that can do that through their own private investments, such as China.

01:41:42 Speaker_03
That's a very, very, very good point, because wouldn't it be awesome if we were the only superpower, and then we could just slowly get into this stuff?

01:41:51 Speaker_07
And maybe that's what's been happening for the past 20, 30 years after the Cold War.

01:41:55 Speaker_03
That's where that's where this whole area 51 s4 shit comes into play because you have to think that if this is happening This is around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, right? Yeah, this is like whoo.

01:42:07 Speaker_03
We had a good 30 years See what we could do laxed and you ever seen Lazar talk about it.

01:42:13 Speaker_07
Yeah, I met him once.

01:42:15 Speaker_03
What did you think?

01:42:18 Speaker_07
I mean It's the type of story that, you know, you only have your own beliefs to go off of because, you know.

01:42:26 Speaker_03
Because it's so crazy.

01:42:27 Speaker_07
It's so crazy. And it's, you know, it's one of those stories where there's, it's basically impossible to validate it. So, you know, like a lot of the stories I hear, you know, I often don't have all this evidence that I can, I can work from.

01:42:38 Speaker_07
So I, you know, I throw it in the, in the database in my head and I look for comparisons, right. Just like the gimbal video and how it maneuvers like, well, that's interesting. That kind of lines up.

01:42:47 Speaker_07
It doesn't totally validate the story, but you know, that's kind of how I approach this topic. I don't, I'm not there to like immediately judge whether it's true or not true. It's just kind of additional information I can use.

01:42:57 Speaker_07
Just like that photo I sent you, right? That's just some random lady in her backyard. But as it turns out, multiple pilots and commercial airliners saw the same thing. So, you know.

01:43:07 Speaker_03
So this is the one that the commercial airline saw that was flying at about the same speed as a plane and then took off.

01:43:15 Speaker_07
Yep, it was completely stationary and accelerated to the speed of a plane and then went way faster than that. And what year was this again? I think it was 22. Wow.

01:43:27 Speaker_03
So this lady got a picture of it.

01:43:29 Speaker_07
That's actually a picture from the pilot in the cockpit.

01:43:32 Speaker_03
That looks like a plane.

01:43:33 Speaker_07
Yeah. I have the one from the lady too. It looks the same except from the ground, but.

01:43:38 Speaker_03
The same, but doesn't it look like a plane to you? Doesn't that look like a plane, Jimmy?

01:43:44 Speaker_02
You can't tell.

01:43:46 Speaker_03
Doesn't it look like the front, like the nose? I mean, I'm looking at Bigfoot through the woods right now. It's one of those things, like, look, you can see his face. That looks like a photo.

01:43:55 Speaker_02
Multiple light sources.

01:43:56 Speaker_03
Reflection off the window maybe even. Bro, that's a cloud. That lady's tripping. That lady's tripping. The thing is like- Air traffic control didn't have it on their radar.

01:44:05 Speaker_03
Unless you have a really good phone, like if you have a Samsung that gets like that 100x zoom, how much are you going to be able to see?

01:44:14 Speaker_07
Yeah, that's why you know with these cases in New Jersey. What's most compelling for me are these is like They're not the images themselves, but it's these electric elected officials.

01:44:23 Speaker_07
You know law enforcement officers and others that are like Very flabbergasted at what they saw right? They're not just like well.

01:44:30 Speaker_07
Yeah, there's something, but I mean they're they're pissed off They're very confident what they were seeing was not normal. They're having a hard time putting words to it and having a proper photo, but

01:44:40 Speaker_07
As you can tell now, I think, it's not easy to just put your iPhone up in the sky and grab a photo of something that's far away, right?

01:44:47 Speaker_03
They're not designed for that. They're not designed for that. They don't look that clean. And even, I mean, the best phones, if something's flying through the sky, you're going to get a shitty, blurry image of it.

01:44:58 Speaker_03
You need some very high-powered equipment to be able to zoom it, and then you need image stabilization to be able to lock it into place.

01:45:04 Speaker_07
There's so much like AI on on phones that yeah interact with your photo before you even see it It's hard to even tell what you're looking at.

01:45:11 Speaker_03
Yeah. Well, that was the thing with the Samsung phones They got in trouble because they were taking photos of the moon. It wasn't really a photo of the moon Did you see how that got figured out? No You can't slip things by the nerds, right?

01:45:24 Speaker_03
They're too fucking smart and so these guys were kind of suspicious of whether or not this thing was actually Taking a photo and zooming in and getting a photo of the moon.

01:45:33 Speaker_03
So they put a blurry photo of the moon on a screen And then step to the back end of the room and zoomed in on the blurry photo That's on the screen and it filled it in with like high resolution and showed you all the craters. No interest like

01:45:49 Speaker_03
It's bullshit.

01:45:50 Speaker_03
Yeah, and so they're trying to say it's AI but It's not you're not enhancing the image you're creating it There's no image there like we know what the image is The image is a blurry bullshit and you turn it into a clear photo of the moon.

01:46:02 Speaker_03
So this is shenanigans

01:46:04 Speaker_07
Well, let me tell you, I think, what needs to happen here to be able to better understand the situation. And I think this applies for New Jersey, but also applies for the much broader kind of UAP conversation as well. So I told you about discovery.

01:46:18 Speaker_07
I told you about disclosure. You know, I think we can only motivate the government so much by just knocking on the door and asking for information.

01:46:25 Speaker_07
There needs to be a public, unclassified scientific investigation into this from the perspective of trying to attack it as a scientific anomaly, right, instead of trying to attack it from a request from the government to release new information.

01:46:39 Speaker_07
So, I mean, I think this should be a national priority, frankly, right?

01:46:43 Speaker_07
We need to have very senior people within the White House that care about this topic, that are leading the charge, perhaps at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, somewhere at that level, that can lead this conversation and start to employ different organizations in a public, unclassified manner.

01:47:00 Speaker_07
such as Department of Energy, such as the FBI and other reporting sources, so that we can be able to gather this information, investigate it, and then form theories about how we can detect it, whether that be through NEXRAD data in the United States, whether that be through weather satellites, other large data sets that we can use to detect these disturbances.

01:47:24 Speaker_07
and work with the Department of Energy to be able to put forward scientific ideas and then utilize their compute resources to be able to process and churn through all this data and see what pops out on the other side.

01:47:36 Speaker_07
And I think that we can bring in organizations such as the National Science Foundation or National Science Council. We can bring in National Science Foundation, excuse me,

01:47:45 Speaker_07
We can bring in offices such as the Office of Strategic Capital and start to actually support the public interest in this conversation by having people that now can access these large data sets and these large compute to be able to run experiments, to bring forward new data sets and technologies, and have this be like a true national effort at a high level.

01:48:06 Speaker_07
I don't think that the current structure of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office within the Pentagon serving as a whole of government

01:48:14 Speaker_07
point is going to be effective, especially considering that they are technically charged with investigating potential crimes of the Pentagon itself, right? Conflict of interest there. So this needs to be raised to a much higher level.

01:48:26 Speaker_07
And we have the resource in the United States to truly study this.

01:48:29 Speaker_07
And I think by doing that, we could then, you know, potentially confirm what is being discovered through this unclassified method with classified censors, but leave it so that it's repeatable.

01:48:39 Speaker_07
unclassified so that the scientific and academic community can see the results of that and work off of it.

01:48:46 Speaker_03
Would there be an issue with you would have to provide amnesty to the people that could potentially had lied in these programs so like if you if you've diverted funding if you've you know not been

01:49:01 Speaker_03
Completely honest to Congress about where the funding is going and you you've had some sort of a back engineering program or whatever they have Would there be like criminal liabilities where there be issues where a bunch of these people could get prosecuted?

01:49:16 Speaker_03
Potentially. Yeah So that would, if I was them, I'd keep hiding it. I'd be like, fuck this, I don't want to go to jail.

01:49:24 Speaker_03
But if you wanted to get full disclosure, it would seem like the only way to effectively make it happen would be to give amnesty to the people that had committed these crimes. So it would become a real dilemma if they were actually crimes.

01:49:39 Speaker_07
There could be another way to approach it. So one thing, especially at the last hearings we've heard, is that there needs to be stronger whistleblower protection laws, right? Maybe you've heard that. I've updated my thinking on that.

01:49:51 Speaker_07
I've done a lot of research on whistleblower protection laws in the United States, and it's actually quite interesting. You know, we've had whistleblowers from the executive branch whistleblow to the legislative branch in the past.

01:50:02 Speaker_07
We had the church committee. We've had thousands of people. that have come forward and shared classified information with Congress outside the bounds of the executive order that allows for the creation of classified information.

01:50:15 Speaker_07
None of them have been ever prosecuted. Now, they may have faced ramifications such as a loss of security clearance. They may have lost their job, right? Those are real risk. I don't want to downplay them.

01:50:28 Speaker_07
But the way the system is currently set up, there's an executive order that allows for the creation of classified information. You have the National Security Act that was created in Congress and signed by the president.

01:50:41 Speaker_07
And these are the two laws that essentially allow for the creation of that type of information.

01:50:45 Speaker_07
So when a whistleblower goes to Congress and shares that information, the Congress people are just as susceptible and vulnerable perhaps to having classified information that they're not privy to. So they're in legal jeopardy in a sense.

01:51:01 Speaker_07
For there to be prosecutions in Congress or from the whistleblowers themselves, the Supreme Court would have to step in and adjudicate that ruling between that executive order and the National Security Act. And that's never happened.

01:51:15 Speaker_07
They don't want to step in on that legislation. And they've had, you know, I don't know how many years, but decades and opportunities to do so, but they choose not to.

01:51:24 Speaker_07
So we're in this kind of stalemate where by action, by inaction, whistleblowers have this unspoken protection, if you will, to come in and share that information, lest the Supreme Court step in and change their precedent for the past several decades.

01:51:40 Speaker_07
So there's no reason that any of these potentially susceptible whistleblowers that do fear legal ramifications for those activities couldn't come into Congress, set up a very quiet meeting, share what they have with these Congress people, and allow them to then run with that information clearly away from any personal identification from that whistleblower.

01:52:01 Speaker_07
That's the world we live in now. We don't have whistleblowers doing that, and I think some of the messaging has been inaccurate, claiming that we need to have stronger whistleblower protection laws because that's probably not going to happen.

01:52:16 Speaker_07
I don't think Trump wants stronger whistleblower protections. I don't think he wants to enable people that would be calling out actions of the executive branch to Congress strengthened.

01:52:27 Speaker_07
That's not necessarily aligned with some of the activities that happened with Colonel Vindman and the Ukraine incident where they essentially utilized those whistleblower laws to share information with Congress about what they perceived as wrongdoings.

01:52:39 Speaker_07
So I don't see those laws getting stronger. But we're in this kind of weird false dichotomy right now where people are asking for them and not willing to come forward.

01:52:49 Speaker_07
But ultimately, I think we just need someone to step up to the plate and come forward to Congress with this information to be able to move the conversation forward on the disclosure side.

01:52:57 Speaker_03
So what you're saying to me, what it sounds like is like you're almost like advocating for a complete restructuring of how the information gets disclosed instead of the way they're doing it now, like someone come in and sort it out. Like you.

01:53:12 Speaker_03
Why don't you do it? I would if I was asked. I bet you'd be asked. I hope you'll be asked, I should say, because I think you're uniquely qualified and obviously very invested in this. You wouldn't want someone who's not invested in this leading this.

01:53:27 Speaker_03
This is a super complicated, nuanced rabbit hole that you have to go down and you have to be balancing out all the possibilities in your head at the same time while you're trying to get this information out.

01:53:37 Speaker_03
And whatever you guys experienced, whatever those things were, if that isn't ours, we should probably know. We should probably know. And I don't know what it is. I don't know if it is ours. I get that if it is, you can't tell me. I get that.

01:53:59 Speaker_03
But if it's not, what's going on? What do you think it is? If you had to guess, some of it's gotta be ours, right?

01:54:07 Speaker_07
in like the broader conversation or specifically New Jersey?

01:54:10 Speaker_03
Well, broader conversation.

01:54:13 Speaker_07
It's clear to me based off of all my research and connections and conversations a couple things. One, people are absolutely seeing things that seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art. Like boom, end of conversation right there.

01:54:28 Speaker_03
Like this one that you sent me. I mean, that's an interesting one.

01:54:32 Speaker_07
Yeah, I mean, multiple witnesses seeing capabilities of craft operating in flight regimes that we don't have the technology to do. So that's step one. Step two is I've been a lot like a blind man touching an elephant.

01:54:46 Speaker_07
You know, I don't know necessarily it's an elephant yet, but I'm feeling a tail, feeling a trunk, feeling the foot. And what that elephant represents is the government's classified work on this topic, right?

01:54:59 Speaker_07
I've butted up against it through people that have been actively engaged in programs that are investigating this in ways that are not public. So I know that there is something there behind the scenes.

01:55:11 Speaker_07
I don't know how deep it goes I don't know specifically the type of like the total amount of work that's being done But it's very clear to me that there are boundaries that I've touched others have touched that represent that work

01:55:24 Speaker_07
So it would make sense, it would be a line that the government would be very interested in this technology.

01:55:29 Speaker_07
And I think it's, you know, I think it's time that we've put the proper protocols and processes in place so that the public can discover this information. We have the technology, Joe. Like, it's not that we don't have the technology.

01:55:43 Speaker_07
I mean, I'm personally working on space situational awareness sensors that we can put in space in order to maintain custody of these objects.

01:55:50 Speaker_03
Now, if no one has ever gone full disclosure, no president, how much do you think they tell them? And what, if anything, could you even imagine would be a valid reason for not telling people?

01:56:05 Speaker_07
I think that there was probably a presidential order at some point in the past that is likely still in effect. And, you know, unless another president is fully read in and countermands that order, then it's business as usual.

01:56:22 Speaker_07
And perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't tell presidents a lot of information on this is because they want to maintain the effect of authority, keep it in play so that another president doesn't countermand it.

01:56:33 Speaker_03
Yeah, because none of them spill the beans. None of them. None of them feel obligated to tell the American public. You know, I think I can see both ways, though. That's the problem. I can see it from a point of a national security thing.

01:56:52 Speaker_03
If if if they're back engineering these things, and trying to if there's a race, it's essentially no different than if we engineered ourself, like, at the end, someone's making it.

01:57:03 Speaker_07
And we might have integrated some of these capabilities into some of our technology that we might look out the window and see, right?

01:57:09 Speaker_07
But deep in the bowels of the system, you know, there might be capabilities that were discovered or motivated through the investigation of these objects, right? So I could see why they're—I agree with you 100%, right?

01:57:21 Speaker_07
And I don't believe that 100% of the information should come out.

01:57:24 Speaker_07
You know, I mean, I've worked in secured information, I've worked in the military, I understand the need for these capabilities, but the core information that we're not alone in the universe, potentially, there's no government on Earth that has the right to hold that information.

01:57:39 Speaker_03
Agreed. I think everybody agrees that there's there's no reason why they should. That's human information. And it's if if we really really if we're really confronted by an absolute fact that we're not alone it changes everything. We kind of know it.

01:57:56 Speaker_03
But we're not sure and we haven't seen it. And if you have seen it, you don't know what you saw. And what is that?

01:58:02 Speaker_07
Think about how that would motivate us as a populace to have this care on a stick out to say, here's how we access the rest of the galaxy.

01:58:10 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:58:10 Speaker_07
Right. Imagine what that would do to our technological innovation. How many millions of kids right now would go to school in order to be engineers and scientists to be able to work on this? It would completely change the world.

01:58:23 Speaker_07
Maybe we'd have, you know, less Facebook apps and things of that nature and AI wrappers, but we would be working on deep, important technology that's going to unlock the rest of the universe to us.

01:58:34 Speaker_03
Or we'd give in to our alien overlords. Because they're coming and they're going to be super powerful. And every civilization that we've ever encountered that was primitive always had a terrible go of it once we showed up.

01:58:45 Speaker_07
Well, maybe we'd be better prepared.

01:58:47 Speaker_03
Well, I would hope they wouldn't be us that they would be past what look human beings today as you know Especially if you follow like Steven Pinker's work where you look at crime and violence throughout history Human beings today live in the safest environment that's ever existed for people look relatively overall despite of all of our problems It's trending in a way of more peace but if you think about

01:59:13 Speaker_03
No violence at all, none, ever. Just like a complete shut off of everything.

01:59:22 Speaker_03
That's what you would have to be if you were a civilization that's eclipsing all the problems that we have here on Earth, that's bypassing all the war, all the bullshit, the destroying the environment, the inequality and the allocation of resources and the control of the populace.

01:59:39 Speaker_03
That's all out the window with this super, super sophisticated society. I think that should motivate us, probably more than anything, to get our shit together, to realize, oh, this is possible.

01:59:53 Speaker_03
This is the trajectory that these intelligent species go through on their road to evolution, their road to enlightenment.

02:00:01 Speaker_03
And they bypass this terrible stage that we're at right now, where we're worried that these drones are searching for nuclear bombs because someone might decide to do some sort of a terrorist thing. Because, you know, there's wars going on over there.

02:00:14 Speaker_03
If we could just know that you can get past that.

02:00:19 Speaker_07
It's like we're in a phase where our technological development is outpacing our social and moral development.

02:00:26 Speaker_03
Or in our biological development. Just like you can only think of so many, like a number of so many things, you can't think of all the stars. I don't think our biology can keep up with the input of all this technology. I think we're getting numb.

02:00:40 Speaker_03
We're getting weirdly numb to it, you know? And I think it's just so... It's so inescapable in today's society that if you want to be integrated into today's society, you have to have one of those goddamn phones. You have to be connected.

02:00:54 Speaker_03
Like, we're moving in this very particular direction. And it seems like if we get through this chaos, what these things that we're visiting, that are visiting us, all the things that people describe,

02:01:09 Speaker_03
of telekinetic communication, telepathic communication, the ability to explain things to them in a way that clarifies what they're here for and why they're here, that's probably what we would do.

02:01:23 Speaker_03
It sounds exactly like what we would do if we could get past all the problems of being a human being in 2024 and all the violence and chaos. all the lying and propaganda. If we got past that, that's what we'd become.

02:01:36 Speaker_03
We'd become some star-faring creature that's like completely enlightened and shows up and is just checking on the apes to make sure they don't blow themselves up.

02:01:45 Speaker_07
It must be a hell of a time to come watch us, right?

02:01:47 Speaker_03
Right and if if think about like technology and technology evolution is always so much faster than biological evolution Like how far ahead are they, you know, if they're a million years, what does that even look like?

02:02:00 Speaker_03
Yeah, like what does that look like?

02:02:02 Speaker_07
Do you hit a wall? Like, do they just quote-unquote know everything, right? And then maybe that's what allows their moral compass and their biology to catch up?

02:02:11 Speaker_03
Or maybe they're the robot custodians of the God-creating intelligent beings, and that all they're doing is sent for AI, AI created them.

02:02:20 Speaker_03
Sent them out into the universe so that when the apes get to the point where they start making nuclear weapons and bombs and reactors And cold fusion and gravity there you like just make sure they get through this Okay, boom and then whatever the fuck quantum computing connected to AI becomes that's what it's like We're farming that

02:02:39 Speaker_07
That's something I thought about you know and talk about biological creatures and in these crafts.

02:02:44 Speaker_07
Yeah, you know It could be that those are not Things that traveled here from far away and are just kind of hanging out right like that might have been here all the time They might have created these objects even the biological substrates if you will here using local materials and put them together because perhaps biological

02:03:04 Speaker_07
Creatures are more appropriate for the type of interactions they need to do instead of a fixed machine, right? Oh, wow.

02:03:12 Speaker_03
Yeah, that completely makes sense, right?

02:03:14 Speaker_03
Like if you can create life, which they're very close to being able to create fake artificial life like in like single cell forms and haven't they created like Aren't they like creating like artificial embryos?

02:03:31 Speaker_03
I believe they have started like animal embryos.

02:03:34 Speaker_07
And that's just from scratch. I mean, they could beam over DNA sequences and fabricate them here.

02:03:39 Speaker_03
Yeah, but that seems like totally doable. And that would make sense that they could breathe our air too. You just engineer it so that whatever this creature is, it does your bidding. And just they're the custodians. They just hang around.

02:03:52 Speaker_03
They're not even like advanced aliens. Synthetic human embryos created in groundbreaking advance. This is so crazy. These are human. I didn't think they were human.

02:04:02 Speaker_03
Synthetic human embryos using stem cells in a groundbreaking advance that sidesteps the need for eggs or sperm. Oh, it's over.

02:04:09 Speaker_07
We're fucked. We're fucked.

02:04:11 Speaker_03
We're so fucked. I'm so anxious.

02:04:15 Speaker_03
So scary man, it's so scary so if we can do that now Something that's a million years more advanced it would just like probably send some ball of energy down that energy would create a spaceship and the beings inside of it and Like they're fucking sending someone a picture through a cell phone.

02:04:33 Speaker_03
Yeah, be that simple.

02:04:34 Speaker_08
Yeah, I

02:04:35 Speaker_03
And that's probably, I mean, it's probably what it is. They're probably the custodians. You know, we think of them as like advanced alien beings. It's probably not real.

02:04:43 Speaker_03
Probably advanced alien beings is AI, and it's the most advanced, because it just goes from nothing to God. And maybe it needs custodians.

02:04:52 Speaker_07
Yeah. The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they truly have some kind of faster than light travel that allowed them to transport, you know, physical objects from extreme distances to nearby.

02:05:05 Speaker_07
Right, because then the cost of sending that information is irrelevant because they can just send things over. So, you know, I could see both sides of it, but it's something interesting to think about.

02:05:16 Speaker_07
You know, I mean, imagine the science and technology fields that a full understanding of this conversation would open up. I mean, it would open up fields of knowledge that we can only imagine right now. We only see in sci-fi movies.

02:05:27 Speaker_03
Right. Even if we don't understand how they're doing it, if proven to be true, Everybody has to stop and go. Okay, what's going on here? Like how is that thing moving that quickly? Where's it coming from? How did it come from 2,000 light-years away?

02:05:40 Speaker_03
Like how is it even possible?

02:05:42 Speaker_03
And then they have to figure it out and how I don't know I mean maybe but what is your take on the crashes because that to me is always like God if you're so advanced you can come here from another galaxy why you fuckers keep crashing and

02:05:53 Speaker_03
Like what is it and then there's I'm sure you're aware of Diana Pasolka and her yeah stuff.

02:05:59 Speaker_03
They call them Donations like the people that research these things whether or not that's even real But the people that I haven't seen it the people that people that say they go there and find these fragments on the ground they refer to it as donations and

02:06:16 Speaker_07
One thing I like to think about is, you know, their planet, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions here, but their planet might be designed a different way, right? Like their atmosphere might have significantly less oxygen.

02:06:28 Speaker_07
It could be much thicker. And so they might have bypassed this whole period where they had rocket propulsions and gas shooting out the back.

02:06:38 Speaker_07
And so they may have taken them longer to get to space, but maybe they did so with a much more developed technology. So then they apply that technology, they come over here, and now they're in a regime that perhaps they were unexpecting.

02:06:52 Speaker_07
There's gravity disturbances, there's more oxygen in the air, there's different things that perhaps they either weren't expecting or just was different than their home environment.

02:07:03 Speaker_07
And then, oh, by the way, there's these stupid apes that are shining stuff at us that are launching nuclear weapons and actually knocking us out of the sky. There's electromagnetic interference.

02:07:12 Speaker_07
So I could see a logic there that shows that, you know, we make the assumption that if they're here, they're gods, right? They can do anything. Maybe that's not the right way to think about it.

02:07:22 Speaker_03
Well, also maybe think about the sheer numbers. So if we think that these things are real, so let's imagine they're actually coming from another planet.

02:07:31 Speaker_03
So if they are coming from another planet and they're capable of coming here, that means other planets are capable of sustaining intelligent life that can be starfarers. So if that's possible here and there, it's probably all over the place.

02:07:44 Speaker_03
So if it's all over the place, Who knows how many numbers of things you're dealing with and how far advanced they are? And like you said, what technology did they develop?

02:07:56 Speaker_03
We always think technology is completely linear, and we think that what we did and the way we did it is the only way it can be done. But the best evidence that's not true is Egypt. The best evidence that that's not true exists.

02:08:09 Speaker_03
You can go touch it with your hand. You can see photographs of it online We don't know what the fuck they did and whatever they did was super advanced for 4,500 years ago. We don't know what machines they used. We don't know how they cut it.

02:08:24 Speaker_03
We don't know how they measured it We don't know shit how they figured out to put it north south east and west almost perfectly No one knows no one understands how they got the stones there. It's all speculation and guesswork and

02:08:35 Speaker_03
But whatever it is, it's insanely impressive and a different sort of way of implementing human ingenuity and engineering and thought into construction. It's very different than anything we've done. So it's a clear path.

02:08:51 Speaker_03
They had an enormous amount of resources in that area, and they had sustained a civilization there for thousands and thousands of years to the point there. They had developed methods and technologies that we don't understand today.

02:09:04 Speaker_03
Because they're not here anymore.

02:09:05 Speaker_07
I love records.

02:09:07 Speaker_07
I love the work that Graham Hancock has been doing and I see it as almost like a parallel conversation The one we're having yeah, I mean there's something here a lot of people can go out and look at it I mean sure I've never been the pyramids, but you know the Information is there if you're willing to go look at it And there's this massive stigma within the academic community to say no no that's not right right because they're in this zero-sum game and

02:09:28 Speaker_07
They're all trying to win the next, you know, contract and grant, and they just want to stay right within the line of what's acceptable.

02:09:35 Speaker_07
And he's bringing forward very interesting points about a time period that I think we all understand now is a lot less understood than we thought.

02:09:43 Speaker_03
There's also parallel civilizations that coexisted with European civilizations that are very similar to what we know about in history, like the Mayans, for instance. Like, what the fuck was going on in Mexico? Like, how come?

02:09:57 Speaker_03
Because we know when that was, like, when Cortez visited. Was it Cortez or Cabeza de Vaca? Who visited the Mayans and wrote about it? It might have been Cabeza de Vaca. I think it's in that book, A Strange New Land.

02:10:13 Speaker_03
But when when they first encountered these people before they gave him diseases Like they had this insane civilization like gold headdresses and ornate dressing like and everybody's like what is this?

02:10:24 Speaker_03
Yeah, like there's insane stone structures and this human sacrifice like The fuck are you guys doing here? Like this is a totally completely different type of civilization.

02:10:35 Speaker_03
While in Europe they're wearing fucking wigs and they're trotting around and like all coexisting. So we know that human beings can go in very different directions in terms of the way their society develops and the technologies they implement.

02:10:51 Speaker_03
Why wouldn't we think that that would be the case with everything in the known universe? Like, everything in the known universe, there's probably an infinite number of paths that intelligent creatures can go to creating technology.

02:11:03 Speaker_03
And like you were saying, some of them might take, like, way longer than our path of, you know, implementing combustion engines and electronics.

02:11:12 Speaker_03
They might be using frequencies, they might be using some sort of different way of generating energy that we don't understand yet.

02:11:20 Speaker_07
Maybe their planet has super strong electromagnetic fields, right? Right. And so they can leverage that in a way we can't.

02:11:25 Speaker_03
Well, the thing Lazar was talking about was that this planet had a stable version of this element 115. But I think, I mean, even, what does that even mean? What is element 115?

02:11:34 Speaker_03
I mean, if there's 114, element 115 is whatever the fuck you find next, right? If you don't know what it is.

02:11:40 Speaker_03
Like, and it was all theoretical until the Large Hadron Collider, they developed a version of it for, you know, a millisecond so they know that it's a real thing. He's saying they have a stable version.

02:11:52 Speaker_03
I'm like, well, if you live in a completely different solar system and a completely different planet with completely different, there's planets out there that are made entirely of diamonds. Did you see that one?

02:12:00 Speaker_06
Yeah, yeah.

02:12:01 Speaker_03
They've got a giant diamond in the sky.

02:12:04 Speaker_06
Get a picture of that, please.

02:12:06 Speaker_03
Yeah, what the fuck? Like, I think that there's probably an infinite number of ways intelligent life evolves, and some of it probably doesn't look anything like us. Like, octopi. Like, octopuses.

02:12:19 Speaker_03
They have no need, because they're in the ocean, and there's no houses in the ocean, so they have no need to, like, build things, but they're super smart, man. They open up jars.

02:12:26 Speaker_03
They figure out a way to get out of a fish tank, walk across the floor, climb into the next fish tank, kill a fish, eat it. climb back and go back in their tank.

02:12:35 Speaker_07
That's why I don't own a squid or an octopus, because if I saw that in the middle of night, it would freak me the fuck out.

02:12:40 Speaker_03
They're really smart, man. They're weirdly smart, and we don't even know why or how, you know?

02:12:46 Speaker_08
Yeah.

02:12:47 Speaker_03
They have eyes that separated up front. I mean, like, whatever an eye was developed, an eye was developed for them and an eye was developed for us.

02:12:56 Speaker_03
Like, and we branched off from the evolutionary chain, like, who knows how many hundreds of millions of years ago.

02:13:03 Speaker_07
I learned a pretty interesting little tidbit here. I mean, the octopus, apparently his DNA is not like anything else on this planet, but apparently the Hawaiians have a ancient tradition that octopus basically came from the sky.

02:13:17 Speaker_07
Isn't that interesting?

02:13:19 Speaker_03
That is interesting, but, you know, with Panspermia, they do think that it's possible that planets, when they get hit by asteroids, a big chunk of it can fly off and the DNA from that rock can enter into this new environment.

02:13:35 Speaker_03
And with some things like spores, spores survive in a vacuum. That's one of the thoughts about Psilocybin mushrooms, that perhaps they arrived here from somewhere else on a rock. which is, it's a real possibility.

02:13:48 Speaker_03
Like, that's where most of the iridium that they find when they have those big, when they do those big digs and they find that layer of iridium that's near where there's an asteroid impact, that's all just shit that came from space.

02:13:59 Speaker_07
Yeah. I mean, if you look back at, like, the evolution of humans to monkeys to, you know, fish and then, you know, multicellular organisms and the introduction of the mitochondria, smaller, simple single-cell organisms,

02:14:13 Speaker_07
there's a very linear path of evolution. And very early on, there's a massive jump where we went from extremely simple bits and pieces to essentially this big jump in complexity for these small systems.

02:14:32 Speaker_07
And there's a theory out there that that jump occurred due to seeding from elsewhere, right? That perhaps the whole path is linear,

02:14:42 Speaker_07
And it occurred over time, perhaps, and they think the time period is like several billion years, right, for the evolution from these components to get to essentially a single-celled organism, that these components evolved independently in space, perhaps feeding off a gamma radiation or other gamma energy or other energies that are out in space.

02:15:05 Speaker_07
And so that evolutionary process did take billions of years. It just didn't occur on a particular planet.

02:15:10 Speaker_07
And then over time, as meteorites hit the Earth, then we see this uptake in complexity because of the arrival and then the further evolution of the biological chain that led to us.

02:15:22 Speaker_07
And it's pretty interesting, kind of tied to that theory, is that the Big Bang happened and things gradually cooled down. I mean, there was a point where, and I think the number is like 500,000 years, where

02:15:35 Speaker_07
the universe was essentially room temperature, right? Like everywhere in the universe had like a distribution of temperature that was equivalent to what we're sitting in right now before it continued to cool off and get weird.

02:15:46 Speaker_07
So there could have been these opportunities in the universal process that allowed for the development of lifelike components that eventually went out to seed the universe, which would be a really interesting concept because it would lead us to believe that this probably happened in multiple places and not just here.

02:16:04 Speaker_03
That is a fascinating idea that it's like seeds. And I mean, that's the function that these asteroids have when that's what that's what happens when they land and they spread whatever's on them.

02:16:16 Speaker_03
You could imagine like that's the function of asteroids slamming into planets, knocking chunks off and flying that stuff into space.

02:16:24 Speaker_07
That's why we have water here. You know, I mean, we didn't just organically like create water on this planet came from asteroids and other debris.

02:16:32 Speaker_03
It's a comet, right? A lot of comets are just made out of just ice, right? Which is fucking nuts. There's a chunk of ice bigger than Manhattan flying through the sky. Or a diamond. And leaving trails. And some of them they can mine.

02:16:49 Speaker_03
That's going to be really fascinating once they figure out how to do that. Land on an asteroid and mine it.

02:16:54 Speaker_07
Yeah. Trillion dollar industry.

02:16:56 Speaker_03
That was a Bruce Willis movie, right?

02:16:58 Speaker_07
Wasn't it? Well, I think they were trying to blow one up.

02:17:00 Speaker_03
I think it was. It was a Bruce Willis movie.

02:17:01 Speaker_07
They sent miners there.

02:17:02 Speaker_03
Armageddon. Armageddon.

02:17:04 Speaker_07
Yeah.

02:17:04 Speaker_03
Alright, they weren't mining, right?

02:17:05 Speaker_07
They trained miners how to be astronauts because that was clearly the easiest choice instead of training astronauts to mine.

02:17:11 Speaker_03
Well, this we were getting to that the James Webb telescope secret secret squirrel meeting. Did you find anything on that? Nothing.

02:17:19 Speaker_02
I mean, I don't know what specifically I was supposed to be looking for. OK, let's try.

02:17:24 Speaker_03
Let's try it. Let's say James Webb telescope top secret meeting. Urgent discovery.

02:17:34 Speaker_02
I've had everything but I have... Give me the bullshit. Give me the stuff that's shady.

02:17:39 Speaker_07
There was a congressman that had a classified meeting about the James Webb.

02:17:43 Speaker_02
It's like they have many discoveries. I don't know.

02:17:46 Speaker_03
Oh, no, no, no, not discovery. Top secret classified classified meeting discovery. Come on, Jamie, indulge me.

02:17:58 Speaker_02
You know, we don't usually put classified stuff out there. Yeah, do it. Put it out there. NASA denies existence of classified briefings on James's just two months ago.

02:18:07 Speaker_03
So they definitely happened. Yeah, it definitely happened if they denied it.

02:18:11 Speaker_02
I mean, I don't. It's probably bullshit.

02:18:14 Speaker_03
It's it's probably a fun thing. NASA denies it.

02:18:19 Speaker_03
In recent weeks, rumors spread rapidly on social media, I think I was involved in that, suggesting that NASA's James Webb Telescope had made an extraordinary discovery, potentially alien life, and the members of Congress had been briefed about it.

02:18:30 Speaker_03
The rumors intensified after U.S. Representative Andre Carson, who had previously chaired a congressional hearing on identified aerial phenomena,

02:18:38 Speaker_03
declined to answer a question about classified briefings when asked by, I don't know who that is, run by journalist Matt Lasso on X, excuse me, Laszlo on X.

02:18:49 Speaker_07
He's been doing good work on the UAP topic.

02:18:51 Speaker_03
Matt Laszlo?

02:18:52 Speaker_07
Yeah.

02:18:53 Speaker_03
Shout out to Matt.

02:18:55 Speaker_03
Speculation prompted a Freedom of Information Act request filled by the Black Ball on September 22nd, 2024, seeking any records classified or unclassified about James Webb Space Telescope briefings provided to Congress, particularly related to the telescope's findings.

02:19:11 Speaker_03
The request aimed to clarify whether any congressional briefings had been held about significant discoveries made by the telescope, which has been in operation since 2021.

02:19:22 Speaker_03
So the response was a copy of records which includes videos, photos, electronic or otherwise of all briefings about James Webb's telescope and program made for Congress.

02:19:33 Speaker_03
I ask that you include all classified and unclassified briefings on the James Webb telescope program or briefings on findings made by that program. It says those searches located no records responsive to your request. Neither confirm nor deny.

02:19:54 Speaker_03
I mean, if I was hiding the fact we're going to get hit by an asteroid, that's how I would do it. I wouldn't tell people. I wouldn't respond to this feed. What freedom of information are you going to put me in jail? We're going to be dead in 16 months.

02:20:11 Speaker_03
There's a planet heading our way. Planets get hit by other planets sometimes.

02:20:15 Speaker_07
Or maybe they detected signs of life around an exoplanet.

02:20:19 Speaker_03
That's the fun one. The fun one is signs of life. The fun one is an actual spaceship. The fun one is something that they can't explain that changes everything that we hold dear and believe to be true. Whatever that means.

02:20:37 Speaker_07
You know, we've gone down the rabbit hole with some fun speculative conversation about what's out in space, but I just want to make the point that, like, this is still a solvable problem here on planet Earth, right?

02:20:48 Speaker_07
Like, we can't let, like, the fun speculation of what's going on out in the universe stop these kind of stodgy academics and others to say, well, this is not relevant to me, this is not practical, there's nothing here, right?

02:21:01 Speaker_07
Like, we need an intense focus on this within our government at the highest levels Not just within an organization with the Pentagon. And we need to engage our scientific and academic community and remove the stigma at the highest levels.

02:21:13 Speaker_07
I'm hoping Trump will do that.

02:21:15 Speaker_03
You think the bottleneck has been the security clearance of it all or the bottleneck has been the lack of transparency? If people just knew, that would be the end of it.

02:21:28 Speaker_07
I think so. I think that would absolutely. And of course, by people knowing, they're going to want to have some evidence that they can use to do research on.

02:21:37 Speaker_07
But even if the president just came out the other day or, you know, in the next week or in a few months and said, we don't know what they are, we have moderate to high confidence that they don't originate through any known adversary or nation on Earth, help us figure this out.

02:21:55 Speaker_03
But Biden and Harris have been like the last managers at Blockbuster Video. You know what I mean? They knew the fucking gig was up. Like, don't even show up. It's over. The building's going under. The lease is done in two weeks. Fuck this.

02:22:10 Speaker_07
They're not even at work. I understand it's a policy of the Biden administration to downplay this topic at the highest levels.

02:22:17 Speaker_03
You understand that this is like a mandate if this is something I don't know if I want to use the word mandate, but this is policy This is their instructions.

02:22:24 Speaker_07
Yeah Huh, so I think I think with the the folks that are friendly to this topic coming in with the Trump administate administration open up a very key Opportunity window for us to move this conversation forward when you look at it from their perspective.

02:22:40 Speaker_03
What would rationalize trying to downplay this. If you look at it from their perspective, what could possibly be the case where they think it would be good to propagandize or sway people in that direction?

02:22:59 Speaker_07
Stop our adversaries being aware of the reality situation and from investing into it and Proceeding past and because again, we're artificially constraining ourselves right because we're trying to keep it a secret Right.

02:23:13 Speaker_07
So now that game is changing, right? I That game is changing because it appears that China is making investments and has a large amount of interest in this topic.

02:23:25 Speaker_07
And we're at a point now where if we continue to do that, we're going to simply fall behind. And I think there's been this delay within the Biden administration to just kind of ignore that problem for whatever problem is more relevant.

02:23:39 Speaker_07
He's probably more worried about his son and the legal issues he's in than this massive issue. I don't think he's running anything.

02:23:49 Speaker_03
I really do think he's the last manager at Blockbuster right now. That's what I think. She's not even showing up for it. I never see her anywhere anymore. It's unfortunate. They checked out. It's over.

02:23:59 Speaker_03
But the problem with that is, okay, then who's running it? And why are you holding back that stuff?

02:24:08 Speaker_07
whoever's been running it, I think. I mean, can you imagine how President Trump would be remembered across history if he moved this conversation forward?

02:24:18 Speaker_03
Yeah, if we just knew what they know. You don't have to tell us what's possible, what it can do, what you've engineered from it. Tell us something's going on. What is that thing? What's that thing that's going on? Is that thing ours?

02:24:36 Speaker_03
If it is, that's fucking crazy. You guys have been holding back some insane shit. And if it's not ours, then we need to know. And I think that would change the human conversation.

02:24:47 Speaker_03
I mean, Ronald Reagan talked about that in the United Nations speech in like, was it the 1980s? Do you remember that speech? See if you can find that. I remember learning about it.

02:24:59 Speaker_03
He talked about how united we would all be if the threat of an alien invasion was happening on Earth, how quickly we would put aside our differences.

02:25:07 Speaker_07
Well, that's why we have the red phone with Russia, right?

02:25:10 Speaker_03
Is it really red?

02:25:11 Speaker_07
Is it really red? Yeah, it used to be. I'm sure it's, you know, a text message now.

02:25:15 Speaker_03
I wonder if they even have a phone anymore.

02:25:16 Speaker_07
Well, they do. And they do with China as well now, although it's less public.

02:25:20 Speaker_03
But isn't it like a phone phone? Like, hello?

02:25:22 Speaker_07
I honestly don't know the structure of it. It used to be, but it was there in order to... Let's hear this.

02:25:33 Speaker_00
all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bound. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.

02:25:55 Speaker_00
And yet I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?

02:26:09 Speaker_00
Two centuries ago in a hall much smaller than this one, in Philadelphia, Americans met to draft... Hell of a speech.

02:26:20 Speaker_07
Yeah. Maybe it's time for another one.

02:26:26 Speaker_03
Yeah. If they know, tell us. It'd be good. Be good if you let us know. And if we did have disclose, like, what can you imagine? Let's imagine that you get into this position, and it's your job to get this information out to the public.

02:26:46 Speaker_03
What kind of resistance do you think you're going to face? Because it seems like if there's been deals that have been done with defense contractors, and like, that's how you kind of have to have work on it, right? Like,

02:26:58 Speaker_03
Who else is going to know what to do? You kind of have to get contractors on this thing. You're going to have to get the best and the brightest. You got a fucking UFO. All right, figure this out.

02:27:09 Speaker_07
We haven't had support from the top in the past, right? So were I in such a position, you would have to have me working closely with the White House, and you would have to have the White House's buy-in on this. I think that's the only way.

02:27:24 Speaker_07
And from the top of the executive branch, you use that position of influence, you pass additional, you know, presidential memorandums and executive orders,

02:27:33 Speaker_07
that countermand previous memorandums that may have existed in the past in order to legally compel these organizations from the chief executive to be able to move the conversation forward, to require them to bring this information out, to require them to collaborate.

02:27:50 Speaker_07
And, you know, it doesn't have to be a one-person job. You bring in some of the brightest people in our country in order to evaluate this data, come to a conclusion, and then share those conclusions with the American people.

02:28:01 Speaker_03
OK, let's imagine you get this position and you go through this search and you find out that this is all our technology and that we can't allow China or Russia to know that we're capable of using these kind of technologies that are unheard of right now.

02:28:19 Speaker_03
So we have to keep it as a national security secret. What do you do about that? Something like that.

02:28:24 Speaker_07
I mean, ultimately, if the answer is that there is nothing unusual going on here, then we have to respect that. Right?

02:28:29 Speaker_03
I mean, it is very unusual. Well, I know if you've got these things that are moving the way these things are moving in their hours.

02:28:35 Speaker_07
Yeah. And I don't think that's the case here, you know, for all the reasons that we've discussed today. So, you know, ultimately, it's about finding the truth, right? It's not about finding your way to a conclusion that you already support.

02:28:47 Speaker_03
Okay. I wonder what the world would be like if it was fully accepted, if disclosure was fully accepted. I wonder what the world would be like if, like, Trump gets into office, Trump has a press conference, he brings you up, you explain what we know.

02:29:06 Speaker_03
This is over the last 16 months. Our team has discovered this, that, and that. We've personally investigated this, that, and the other. Where are the crashed ones? Okay, where the fuck are you guys hiding those? Because if that's real, that's the end.

02:29:19 Speaker_03
All you have to do is bring the president to the crash site, and you bring him into the warehouse, and you show him this thing, and you walk around it, and you go, what the fuck is this? What the fuck is this? That would be the end.

02:29:34 Speaker_03
All you'd have to do is just get a camera crew, go with them, Trump walking around a spaceship, okay, we've been visited, now we know. By whatever by whoever maybe it's not even a visitor. Maybe it's always been here.

02:29:49 Speaker_03
Maybe it lives in the ocean Maybe it's been Monitoring us from there and its sole purpose is like I said before custodian to make sure we don't blow ourselves up But either way we should probably know that you probably know there's fucking bases in the ocean You know which because a lot of them they've seen in their transmedium They move through the air and then they go into the water and they don't even make a splash It's not like okay.

02:30:11 Speaker_03
What is that?

02:30:12 Speaker_07
We would have for the first time, I think, a clear direction of where we need to go as a society. It would revamp our academic processes, our fields of study, our beliefs in religious structures. I don't think they would nullify it.

02:30:28 Speaker_07
I think they would probably amplify it. And it would, I think, have the equivalent impact of a positive nuclear bomb on our economy. We would have certainty in what direction to invest in and what technologies to pursue.

02:30:43 Speaker_07
And I think that by having that direction, that would, again, nuclear bomb level increase in capabilities where we would be able to, you know, be working on propulsion and energy systems and material systems that would advance us well beyond where we are today with leapfrog us.

02:31:00 Speaker_07
And if we sit on our hands, we don't do that, we're going to find our adversaries in a position to do that instead, which would completely rewrite the geopolitical environment.

02:31:12 Speaker_03
If we reach technological proficiency in all this AI stuff and quantum, if we reach this first, then what do you think that looks like?

02:31:26 Speaker_07
I think, well, we already are in AI to some degree, but I don't think it's a technology you can necessarily contain to one country. I mean, China's already has their own AI out there.

02:31:36 Speaker_07
So I think it's going to be somewhat business as usual, at least on the AI side. Quantum computing, a little bit different. The technology investment is much higher.

02:31:45 Speaker_07
But still, if China can come in and potentially steal that technology and replicate it, then we're just in another level of arms race at that point.

02:31:55 Speaker_07
But if we have the ability to invest in deep technologies that we aware have an endpoint in reality, instead of having to guess the strategic value of something, it's going to allow us to focus our resources in a way that we haven't had the opportunity to do in this country.

02:32:10 Speaker_03
That's a great rose-colored glasses view of it. That sounds really good. It does. When you say it that way, I'm like, wow, it's a very positive outlook. I hope you're right. What do you think? I don't know. I definitely don't know.

02:32:25 Speaker_03
I go back and forth a lot. I go back and forth as to whether or not these are visitors or whether or not they're interdimensional and they're always here. I go back and forth whether or not they're ours. I think some of them are ours probably.

02:32:38 Speaker_03
I go back and forth to Lazar's talk about how they had been doing flights with these things. They'd figured out how to at least get them off the ground and move them around the sky and have them land again.

02:32:48 Speaker_03
If that was going on if that's real that was going on 1989 who knows who knows what the fuck we have right now if that's real. But if we are being visited it's. It's a complete revamping of our position in the universe.

02:33:05 Speaker_03
If we do realize we're a part of a community of intelligent life that's in the universe and that it just takes a while for you to be technologically sophisticated enough where you can communicate or travel to these places, but it eventually happens.

02:33:21 Speaker_03
And then we just realize like the lights come on, there's like a billion eyes out there staring back at us like, whoa, we're all connected in this thing.

02:33:29 Speaker_07
I think it would give us a lot of reason to collaborate.

02:33:32 Speaker_03
It would give us a lot of reason to collaborate and like Ronald Reagan was saying it would force us to recognize that we really are one thing here on planet Earth. It's us together. We're not different countries. It's fucking it's crazy.

02:33:44 Speaker_03
We're all just there's courses different countries, but we're just human beings. Yeah, we should all just be like the same thing and We don't need to fight. There's no reason for any of this stuff. All this shit can be worked out.

02:33:55 Speaker_03
In the future, it should be. I just think technology's got to kind of, like, help us along in that direction. That's probably exactly what's happening.

02:34:03 Speaker_03
But it's pretty strange that in the meanwhile, like, what we're facing today with these superpowers duking it out and trying to develop technological and military dominance, this would be, in the movie, the exact time that alien life would start showing up.

02:34:20 Speaker_03
If you're gonna have a movie like where the aliens come to make sure we don't kill ourselves Now would be arrival time. Yeah now would be the time.

02:34:28 Speaker_07
It's like we're all sitting in Plato's cave Duking it out Arguing about what's on the wall right when a few people are creeping upstairs realizing that we have a lot bigger things to worry about

02:34:40 Speaker_03
Yeah. You have a lot bigger things to worry about and a lot bigger things to look forward to. And I think the only way we're going to know what the territory is, is if we get a legitimate map.

02:34:54 Speaker_03
I think some people have a legitimate map of what we're looking at, and some people don't. And that's where you and I agree, that's kind of fucked up. And it's not their position. You shouldn't be able to.

02:35:05 Speaker_07
Well, people like yourself bring into attention this topic, Joe, is huge. I think the momentum that we've seen over the past three, four, five, eight years since I've been doing this is really changing the conversation.

02:35:18 Speaker_07
I speak with people every single day. I work this every single day, Joe, seven days a week.

02:35:23 Speaker_07
And the amount of people that are changing their tune and coming around to this conversation at all levels of engineering, scientific background, financial resources, is absolutely huge. And I think the pressure is going to continue to build.

02:35:36 Speaker_07
And I think that the opportunity we have here with the new administration is unprecedented. And I think we need to do everything we can do to leverage that to move the conversation to a point of no return.

02:35:48 Speaker_03
I think it's possible to do. I really do, and I think that's what the general public wants at this point.

02:35:53 Speaker_08
We're doing it.

02:35:54 Speaker_03
I think people are really tired of not knowing. It's all bullshit. Tell me it's bullshit. Tell me how you know it's bullshit. And if it's all real, fuck you for hiding it for so long. How you been hiding this for so long?

02:36:10 Speaker_03
How do you think this, if you had a guess, how do you think this drone thing gets resolved? I mean, they can't just stay in the sky.

02:36:15 Speaker_07
I have this kind of pit in my stomach that this will probably stop in like a week or two. And then we won't learn anything new. Now, I don't know if that's how it's going to play out. But that would be consistent with what happened in past years.

02:36:32 Speaker_03
Do you think it's possible that they're just testing to see how people would react to drones flying around space?

02:36:43 Speaker_07
Due to the lack of coordination in government on this topic, I would assume if that's what they were doing, they would have had a better plan to communicate.

02:36:51 Speaker_03
But why would they communicate with state and local authorities if they could do it in a way where they get clearance to do it? And, you know, it's a need to know thing.

02:37:01 Speaker_03
And they just, like, have these things fly around just to gauge how the public's perception would be.

02:37:08 Speaker_07
even within the federal government, there seems to be confusion, right? So I'm not even referring to local government and law enforcement.

02:37:15 Speaker_07
I'm talking about like government agencies that are actively investigating this, seem to be out of the loop as well.

02:37:21 Speaker_07
So if they are trying to trick us, and when I mean us, I mean like basically everyone, you know, even within the government, even what people would need to know,

02:37:30 Speaker_07
I mean, I just, it's so hard for me to rationalize that they would be willing to manipulate 95% of the government in order to run some kind of experiment or social test with unclear value at the end of that chain, right?

02:37:46 Speaker_07
Like, what exactly are they preparing us for? Is it a broader integration of UAP knowledge into our conversation? That's the only thing I could think that would require such secrecy.

02:38:01 Speaker_03
Do we have drones that are capable of doing exactly what these things are doing?

02:38:05 Speaker_07
I think so. I mean, for the vast majority of cases that I've seen, you know, on social media, whatnot, I think so.

02:38:12 Speaker_03
So is this domestic or these Chinese drones, like the top of the line drones that can do what these things are doing? Are we making those here?

02:38:20 Speaker_07
I would have to make the assumption that the government with the defense community has built various drones that are capable of doing similar things for deployment overseas. Right.

02:38:32 Speaker_07
So again, there's not one video I know we've looked a little bit for one that exhibits capabilities that gives us a high level of confidence that they're completely unusual.

02:38:43 Speaker_07
But we're not seeing that necessarily, so I can't jump to that conclusion yet based off of the information that's being presented.

02:38:48 Speaker_07
But the overall activities of all these objects and the historical consistency with other sightings in this part of the country lend me to still consider that there's anomalous activity that's going on in this area.

02:39:03 Speaker_03
Anomalous in terms of what we know we're capable of?

02:39:07 Speaker_07
Yes.

02:39:08 Speaker_03
Like, what is an example of anomalous that exceeds our capabilities?

02:39:14 Speaker_07
increased signal management, right, not being able to be detected off our very sophisticated — we have very sophisticated radar systems on the eastern seaboard, including in New Jersey.

02:39:25 Speaker_07
So to have objects that are able to essentially evade those detection mechanisms and appear mysterious and disappear over the ocean or come from the ocean in a way that's untrackable should not be possible.

02:39:41 Speaker_07
That's why we have the billion dollar systems. So have we developed these capabilities, then not just radar, but infrared, being able to block infrared, and even being able to detect objects in their proximity and even turn their lights off. Right.

02:39:56 Speaker_07
And of course, these aren't magical technologies, we can probably imagine a path there. But It creates a lot of uncertainty about the origin of these objects and their intent, right?

02:40:05 Speaker_07
Are we trying to evade our own capabilities and cause a mass panic over our own country? Is this a foreign adversary that has had breakthroughs in these capabilities? Not just breakthroughs in these capabilities, but...

02:40:18 Speaker_07
You know, Iran and China and Russia, for them to be operating off the eastern seaboard, it's not a small task, right? To like load up a ship, have it be stealthy, and then launch all these drones without a point of origin.

02:40:30 Speaker_07
That's not a trivial problem for them, right? We're one of the only countries in the world that has a true global navy, and it would even be difficult for us to do. civilian drones.

02:40:41 Speaker_07
You know, I mean, are there civilians operating these hundreds of drones without detection, without flaw, without failure, without crashing? Very, very strange that that would be the case as well.

02:40:53 Speaker_07
So again, it's I can't, I look at all these different options. And I can, I can, I can see a rationale to say, okay, some of these

02:41:02 Speaker_07
are not exhibiting capabilities that make me think it came from somewhere else necessarily, but all these kind of facts lined up one after another makes it really anomalous and quite the mystery still. But again, I think we can figure this out, Joe.

02:41:15 Speaker_07
We can get the proper technology there. We can go figure this out, and if the government is not going to do it, I will.

02:41:22 Speaker_03
How are you gonna do it though like without the government like what would you do there's right now? Yeah, Trump never calls you. Yeah, I go figure it out. What are you gonna do?

02:41:29 Speaker_07
I'm gonna take RF receivers From counter drone technologies.

02:41:33 Speaker_07
I'm gonna go out into these hot spots We're gonna be looking for the signals that they may be emitting and then using mobile platforms We'll be there to be able to detect the strength of the signals and we'll essentially follow them see where they go

02:41:46 Speaker_07
And that might include, you know, operating an aircraft. That might include a ship offshore that we can hand off this information to so they can track them when they go over the water. It's just a resource problem. It's not a technology problem.

02:41:58 Speaker_03
So if there is a ship that's launching them off the coast, What kind of technological capabilities would that ship have to have to be there undetected, where they don't know where these things are coming from?

02:42:11 Speaker_03
How far away would it have to be where that's even feasible? There's a couple of paths.

02:42:16 Speaker_07
One of them, you know, it would have to be perhaps like a submarine-launched ship, right? And we have very good detection underwater, especially off our coast.

02:42:26 Speaker_03
How many, like, drones could you fit on a submarine?

02:42:29 Speaker_07
Well, that's the thing, right? So especially car-sized drones, probably not too many. So we're talking about perhaps a different class of submarine or multiple submarines. They probably don't have the ability to recover these objects.

02:42:40 Speaker_07
Would it have to be a submarine or could it be a giant ship? I don't think we could have a giant ship off our coast without the Navy or other DOD assets knowing it's there.

02:42:51 Speaker_03
So satellites and everything else. If these things are launching from the water, they must be launching from something that was under the water.

02:42:59 Speaker_07
That would be my hypothesis.

02:43:01 Speaker_03
But there's no ship that's been sighted, right? Correct. What if there's a fucking civilization in the water? It sounds so stupid, but did you ever see that one video where they showed this thing? It was an underwater camera.

02:43:14 Speaker_03
I think it was focused on an oil rig, and you see something flying through the background. Yeah, I did see that. Something like 500 knots underwater. Like a solar flash kind of?

02:43:23 Speaker_07
Yeah. I have reports from submarine operators of very fast objects under the water.

02:43:30 Speaker_03
Yeah. What the fuck?

02:43:33 Speaker_07
USOs underwater or unidentified submerged objects. I mean, our water, our planet's mostly covered in water. Our sensing underwater is not as good as in the air. There's less traffic under there. It would be, you know, a logical place to set up shop.

02:43:50 Speaker_03
Yeah, I mean, and how much of the ocean has actually been discovered or explored rather? It's like 10% or something crazy.

02:43:57 Speaker_07
Yeah, pretty small.

02:43:58 Speaker_03
And there's insane deep spots that something could just go and hang out.

02:44:02 Speaker_07
Or move around, stay mobile.

02:44:03 Speaker_03
Yeah. Well, listen, I hope you get a phone call. I hope you get a phone call and somebody listens to this and says, that sounds like it would be a good thing for everybody if we knew what the hell was going on, if it's possible to talk about.

02:44:19 Speaker_03
But again, without you out there telling your story and guys like Commander David Fravor and all these different people that have had these experiences and encountered things and are aware of it and know that it's a real issue.

02:44:35 Speaker_03
Without real credible voices like yourself, this conversation falls into the hands of silly people like me. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm interested in UFOs, I was interested in Bigfoot for a long time. You know what I mean?

02:44:50 Speaker_03
Some of it is just fun for me.

02:44:51 Speaker_03
But when guys like you come out and talk about it, and when, you know, the New York Times writes that article in 2017, and you get the Gimbal video and the Go Fast video, all of a sudden it's like, okay, this is a phenomenon. This is a real thing.

02:45:03 Speaker_03
What is it? And why don't we know? And why aren't we being told what we do know?

02:45:08 Speaker_07
They don't deny it anymore. I mean, within government, when they communicate, it's clear from the Pentagon to the executive branch to legislative branch, that yes, there are objects, we don't know what they are.

02:45:20 Speaker_07
And they seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art. I mean, that's, we're at a point in the conversation where that seems to be pretty widely accepted at this point.

02:45:29 Speaker_03
How hard would it be for people to accept that it's coming from an underwater civilization that's popping out to check on us?

02:45:35 Speaker_07
That might be harder than the whole alien theory.

02:45:37 Speaker_03
Right. It would be almost crazier. Almost crazier to think that we coexisted with an alien civilization that's under the water that we didn't know about.

02:45:46 Speaker_07
Wouldn't we feel foolish?

02:45:47 Speaker_03
We would feel so stupid. We thought we were the apex predators. We thought we were running shit. These things are just hovering over our cities. Listen, man, I really hope you get that phone call. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.

02:45:58 Speaker_03
And like I said, I really mean it.

02:46:00 Speaker_03
If it wasn't for people like you that had the courage to come out and talk about these things, because I know there was a long time where airline pilots, a lot of different people just didn't want to talk about their experiences because it seemed like they were silly.

02:46:11 Speaker_03
And they would be mocked. And it was widely dismissed. And now it's kind of generally acknowledged that something's going on, even from our own government. So thank you.

02:46:24 Speaker_03
If it wasn't for guys like you, I don't know where this whole conversation would be. So I hope you get a job. Yeah, please do it. Tell everybody the website one more time.

02:46:33 Speaker_07
safeaerospace.org. Please sign up. And you can report there. Please sign up as well.

02:46:38 Speaker_03
Instagram?

02:46:40 Speaker_07
Twitter. Uncertain Vector. Excuse me, X. X, yes. Okay. Thank you, Mike.

02:46:43 Speaker_03
Appreciate it. Thanks, y'all. Bye, everybody.