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Episode: #2242 - Bert Sorin

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 03:44:18

Episode Shownotes

Bert Sorin is the president and co-founder of Sorin Exercise Equipment, as well as an athlete, hunter, and advocate for the health and wellness of veterans.

www.sorinex.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_04
The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:15 Speaker_00
Good to see you, brother.

00:00:15 Speaker_01
What's going on, man? Good to see you, man. Thank you very much for that extraordinary piece of athletic equipment you brought to the gym. Absolutely. Is there a photo of that so we can show people what it looks like?

00:00:24 Speaker_00
Yeah, it should be on the website X-Factor. And what is it called? It's called the X-Factor. Oh, it's called the X-Factor. What is the website? Soarinx.com.

00:00:33 Speaker_01
Go to Soarinx.com, check out the X-Factor.

00:00:35 Speaker_00
So it's actually, pull it up, Jamie.

00:00:37 Speaker_01
Pull it up, Jamie. Isn't that nice to say that? Yes, man. I'm telling you. It's fun, right? It's big. So this is the machine.

00:00:41 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's actually Judd, who was here a minute ago.

00:00:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's a brilliant machine, man. The idea that you could push and pull rotational power machine. It really is a genius idea, man. And for things like striking sports, that's huge.

00:01:00 Speaker_01
Like the ability to push and pull at the same time while stabilizing your core, I mean, that is undoubtedly going to help people, like, you're definitely going to be able to deliver more power in strikes.

00:01:13 Speaker_00
Right, because you take the ground force and then be able to put it through, obviously, with the core, because that's all three planes of motion, all obviously go through your core, and then puts it into either your feet or your arms.

00:01:27 Speaker_01
It's just so unusual that you can do something like that. I mean, I guess you kind of can do something like that with cables, with a cable machine, but that seems better.

00:01:35 Speaker_00
Yeah, because you have a little bit of a balance component as well, but you're right, like you're blocking, let's say you're a right-hander, you're blocking on that left leg, you're stabilizing out the right hamstring and hip.

00:01:45 Speaker_00
But yeah, especially when you get that little extra extension, I call it the riblets right there, your obliques, it just locks everything in. So I'm interested to see what you come up with.

00:01:53 Speaker_01
It's pretty dope. And you were telling me that this was originally, you came up with this idea from an older machine that's not around anymore?

00:02:01 Speaker_00
Yeah. I've been in this industry a long time, as well as you have, but it's kind of taken a remastered series where we're taking all the cool stuff that was

00:02:11 Speaker_00
Could have been our designs, but it could have been just old designs that are just like kind of lost to the ages.

00:02:15 Speaker_00
And we're like, hey, that was a cool piece, but it sucked because you had to load it weird, or it was like maybe wasn't as safe as it could have been. And so it's like, let's break the whole thing apart, figure out what was good about it.

00:02:27 Speaker_00
And then that was like the eighth iteration. We just kept playing with it. And then it was like, when you realize the double axis is what made the user experience cool, then it was like, OK, this is badass.

00:02:39 Speaker_00
I sent that video to you, and then a couple colleges have already bought them, and then Ryan Krauser, the world champion and record holder in the shot put was like, yeah, this is all rotational power. How do we turn that on?

00:02:52 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's so cool today because there's so much social media and there's so many videos and YouTube videos of people using equipment. 15, 20 years ago, you had to go to a gym and go, oh, what is that? Oh, that's cool. Where'd you get that?

00:03:07 Speaker_01
How's that work?

00:03:08 Speaker_00
The big guy in the gym, you had to go, hey, what's the deal? You and I grew up in the same era where we're going to gyms all the time, and there's a bunch of quacks telling you to do stuff. Always, yeah.

00:03:19 Speaker_01
And then there's bro scientists.

00:03:20 Speaker_00
Total bro scientists, yeah. And then you're just like, hey, if that guy's really good at something. Back in the day, after I'd compete, probably much like you,

00:03:30 Speaker_00
After I compete I would get whoever was better than me and I would offer to take him out to dinner and I would just go Hey, like I'd feed him beers until they basically told me what how they beat me Just like well, how much are you cleaning or what are you doing?

00:03:44 Speaker_00
Then I would pick up some little idiosyncrasy of training and they're like, oh we would do this contrast and I'm like, what's that and I would just keep digging and digging and digging I'd go back and figure it out

00:03:54 Speaker_01
Well, I remember when I was competing, they would tell you to not lift weights, which is so hilarious. They used to say that. They used to say it will slow you down and you'll become tight.

00:04:06 Speaker_01
And I remember thinking, like, why don't you just stretch if you're tight? Yeah Horsepower makes the car slower. It didn't make any sense to me It's like they thought that the only exercise you should do is martial arts itself. Just hit the bag, right?

00:04:21 Speaker_00
You know train now.

00:04:22 Speaker_00
When do you when do you think that well you got you know, Bruce Lee would do I mean he did some exercise in a lot of isometrics Yeah, yeah, and he had some lifting but it was always pretty light But what would you say was the when that changed?

00:04:37 Speaker_01
I think it was a Vander Holyfield. I I think it was Mackie Shillstone trained Evander Holyfield when he went up to heavyweight. And I remember myself at the time, so this was in the 90s, I remember thinking, what is he doing?

00:04:51 Speaker_01
He's lifting weights, he's gonna fuck himself up. Doesn't he know that all these coaches have already figured it out? And then all of a sudden Evander got all these He was trapped and dealt it out. He got jacked. And he became a legitimate heavyweight.

00:05:07 Speaker_01
Also, pretty sure there were some Mexican supplements involved. Yeah, he might have gone across the border. I think it's a strong possibility. The 90s were a good time. I think it's a strong possibility that there was some help.

00:05:21 Speaker_01
Because also, you never heard of anybody tested positive for steroids back then.

00:05:24 Speaker_00
No.

00:05:25 Speaker_01
And I know for a fact that some of those guys were on steroids.

00:05:30 Speaker_00
Would not disagree. I know people who know Because up until 91 steroids weren't even illegal as a controlled substance Do you know who caused it to be illegal Joe Biden?

00:05:47 Speaker_01
No shit. Yep that motherfucker. It was all him Yeah, you know Derek for more plates more dates was telling us about the other day. I'm like that motherfucker He did it

00:05:58 Speaker_00
That should be a loan.

00:06:02 Speaker_01
Well, I guess the idea is that people could abuse it, right? Right. Here's the deal, folks. You can abuse almost everything. Sure. This is my argument against online gambling.

00:06:12 Speaker_01
You know, there's a lot of people that think online gambling should be banned because so many people are losing money on online gambling. Shut the fuck up. Do you know easy it is to not online gamble? It's so easy You know how easy it is.

00:06:24 Speaker_01
I've never online gambled makes two of us.

00:06:26 Speaker_00
That's how easy it is to not online game I probably forget my password to get into the thing.

00:06:30 Speaker_01
But yeah, like I'm not discounting the fact that gambling is addictive. I personally know Gambling addicts one of my best friends Dana white is a fucking gambling addict. He happens to be insanely wealthy so he can get away with it and

00:06:44 Speaker_01
But that helps I've I grew up in pool halls. I know gambling addicts. I get it. I'm not one Yeah, so it's possible to like fucking have some self-control and discipline and willpower the weird thing.

00:06:57 Speaker_01
I've never done crack either crazy It's strange crack is everywhere and it's a scourge of humanity.

00:07:03 Speaker_00
I've never done crack. You know, it's really weird I'm so I've never even seen crack

00:07:08 Speaker_01
I've seen it.

00:07:09 Speaker_00
Yeah, I saw cocaine once in my entire life, which is wild based on... That is pretty wild. I know a lot of people and it's like, yeah, like, did they just think I would just say no to that?

00:07:18 Speaker_00
Because I grew up in the 80s, just say no generation, but... I haven't seen coke... I didn't think it was like a real thing.

00:07:22 Speaker_01
Since I was in high school. I've never... Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is kind of crazy because I know so many people who do coke. Yeah. But I was at a party in high school the last time I saw someone doing coke. No way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In your world?

00:07:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, my world. Yeah. Well, I don't do anything like that. I don't ever fuck around. I've never done coke. I've never even thought about doing it. Never had the desire. Because I was around people that were abusing it when I was in high school.

00:07:47 Speaker_01
So I was like, okay.

00:07:49 Speaker_00
Do you think that's because you're such a strong personality and kind of role model that people are like, hey, Joe's not into that, keep it away from him? Do you think they're respectful of that and just kind of know the deal?

00:08:00 Speaker_01
They just know I don't want it. I'm just not interested in anything that gives me more confidence. I'm not interested in that. I got plenty of that. I like humility. I'm looking for humility. I don't like confidence boosters.

00:08:13 Speaker_01
I don't like anything that gives you a ridiculous sense of your abilities. I'd rather be humble. I'm not interested.

00:08:22 Speaker_00
I mean, delusion is a strong suit. Sometimes. Yeah, and it can get you bound up too.

00:08:29 Speaker_01
Definitely yeah, I think it gets you pretty far, and then your fucking wheels come off It's like when you're skateboarding when you're a kid You see when they do that

00:08:42 Speaker_00
It's like you had Josh Brolin on the other day. That was like what he did in Goonies. Remember he had the little bike?

00:08:46 Speaker_01
Oh, that's right.

00:08:47 Speaker_00
He was talking about the motorcycle. All I could think about is my head is him flying off the cliff in Goonies.

00:08:52 Speaker_01
Oh, that's hilarious.

00:08:53 Speaker_00
Child of the 80s.

00:08:53 Speaker_01
I forgot he was in Goonies.

00:08:55 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:08:56 Speaker_01
I should have brought that up. We should have had that. I wanted to bring it up so bad. I was on the plane.

00:09:00 Speaker_00
I was biting my tongue the whole time. I was riding the plane. I was like, all I could see is that cat in sweatpants with his shorts on top of his sweatpants riding a tricycle or whatever down this hill.

00:09:09 Speaker_01
He's one of the rare guys that was like a child actor that turned out really awesome. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a small club. That's a fucking super small club.

00:09:20 Speaker_01
Cause everybody that I know, and I know a few people personally that were famous as a young person, they're out of their fucking mind. They're just, they're, they're like, you know what I say? It's like, look at him. Hey, I have a good memory.

00:09:32 Speaker_01
Look at me. How old was he back then? Uh, he's probably 17 or 18. That's so crazy. Well, he's two years younger than me. 85, uh, in 85 I was 18. So he's probably like... Were the 80s not so awesome? 80s were pretty cool.

00:09:49 Speaker_01
Except everybody's worried that Russia was going to blow us up. The true story.

00:09:52 Speaker_00
Yeah. True story. Yeah. I remember 85, I believe it was 85, going to... I know obviously we're both into archery. So 85, Rambo First Blood Part Two came out. Pops took me to the movie theater.

00:10:04 Speaker_00
He and I saw it and we went straight from there to the archery shop. I got my first bow that day.

00:10:09 Speaker_01
Really?

00:10:10 Speaker_00
Yeah, I still have it.

00:10:10 Speaker_01
Wow.

00:10:11 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's awesome. I still have some of the same arrows. No shit. Yeah, I strangely don't lose things.

00:10:17 Speaker_00
But yeah, I remember in the backyard shooting because like he kind of half taught me and then I was in the backyard zinging arrows and thinking like if I had explosive tips like how badass would this be?

00:10:25 Speaker_01
I went to Lanai and you know they have the Pineapple Brothers has that archery and I brought my whole family and then they also have this area where you can go and you can like shoot skeet and you drive like four wheelers up in the mountains and then they had like traditional archery like bows and arrows.

00:10:46 Speaker_01
And I was like, oh, let me try this. I don't know how to fucking aim. I'm terrible at it. I was like, I'm a good archer. I should be good at this. Or I thought. I could barely hit the fucking target from 20 yards away.

00:10:57 Speaker_00
It's like the science and the art, two different things. They're totally, totally different. Yeah. I've always said like the guys that are traditional hunters, you know, trad guys, they're either weirdos or they're absolute killers.

00:11:09 Speaker_01
Right. It's like Aaron Schneider type dudes. Yeah. Who are so good at compound archery, they get tired of it.

00:11:14 Speaker_00
Yeah. Or they're weird guys that smell like sausage and live in their mom's basement. And they're like, you're like, I, yeah, I know you do that, but you probably go to like Ren Fairs and stuff too. So I'm not sure what to deal with.

00:11:25 Speaker_01
Well, at archery country, uh, you know, the local,

00:11:28 Speaker_01
archery shop here in town whenever I get a new bow or I get a new sight and I have to sight it in we go to their they have an indoor range and a lot of times in the indoor range there's these dorks sorry folks dorks with recurves

00:11:42 Speaker_01
And they're at 20 yards. Their spread is like my arm length. You're barely hitting the target. Don't do that.

00:11:54 Speaker_00
This is stupid. You don't shoot like a cardinal direction. I'm shooting east today.

00:12:01 Speaker_01
When they get good, like I've seen Schneider make groups at 40 that are like the size of a silver dollar. But most people struggle pretty hardcore.

00:12:12 Speaker_01
But they say also that if you do want to hunt with it, you have to practice every day because it's almost like throwing a ball.

00:12:18 Speaker_01
Like, you know, if you're throwing a ball, you know how much the ball weighs because you've thrown it a bunch of times and you have like this muscle memory that if I throw that hard at 20 yards, I'm going to hit that thing.

00:12:30 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's like a quarterback like quarterbacks.

00:12:31 Speaker_00
I know a couple of my buddies were college quarterbacks They're all good trad archers because they kind of like have that hand I spatial they know the memory Yeah, but you got to be on yeah, my buddy got into a brandon lily the powerlifter He got into it and he all he hunted with for a couple years was trad and that cat window like Argentina and Africa just nuts in a sack with he's like now I'm going to trad bow and like

00:12:55 Speaker_00
Okay, man.

00:12:56 Speaker_01
I'm always like, do you hate accuracy? No, he got it done, but holy cow. I know, but there's something about dialing it in to like 47 yards, drawing back and center in your pan and just watching that shot break and watch that arrow go exactly.

00:13:14 Speaker_01
Exactly where you want to go just what and hit those ribs just the dopamine button.

00:13:20 Speaker_00
Oh It's the greatest it is it does Can you see the air does it slow down when you shoot at animals like it does for me?

00:13:28 Speaker_00
It looks like there's no way this arrow is ever gonna get to it's like everything in my brain It's like that book the rise of Superman when you go in a flow state and like everything speeds up in your brain so actually

00:13:39 Speaker_00
the perception all lengthens out. They say your brain actually starts firing three times faster than the little pictures, so that's why it slows down. This morning, I watched that arrow just right-handed turn, and I'm like, that deer's gonna move.

00:13:57 Speaker_00
And it was only 27 yards, but I'm watching it Oh, that's interesting. But when I'm shooting targets, I'm just like, man, whatever. I don't seem to think that. No. Really? No. I always think it takes forever to get to the animal.

00:14:10 Speaker_01
No. I'm trying to think, when do things slow down for me? No. Jiu-jitsu? No. Jiu-jitsu just, when you're really in a good state, it's just almost like you're not thinking. It's like all of a sudden you have an armbar. So it is a flow state.

00:14:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's a complete flow state. But it's a flow state that's established after thousands of hours of drilling. And that's the most important thing in jiu-jitsu, really, is drilling.

00:14:42 Speaker_01
Everybody loves to roll, because it's so fun, because it's like you're playing a video game. You're trying to kill each other.

00:14:48 Speaker_01
But the really important thing is drilling, and drilling with a certain amount of rigor, a certain amount of speed and intensity. You're not trying to hurt each other, but you're drilling with intention, so that your body is completely

00:15:06 Speaker_01
Accustomed to these movements like your your body recognizes these movements and like you slap that elbow Grab that armpit get that arm drag and you get the choke It's almost like it happens before you even know it's happening because your brain is so Just it's just wired in there.

00:15:27 Speaker_01
You're you're you're Your whole nervous system knows exactly what to do.

00:15:31 Speaker_00
It's like a cascading effect like yeah, then kind of deal now.

00:15:34 Speaker_01
Is that super slow drilling?

00:15:36 Speaker_00
No, you just go to speed.

00:15:38 Speaker_01
No. No, I think the correct way to drill is you drill with a little resistance from your partner Like you don't want to put your partner to go limp on you. Sure

00:15:48 Speaker_01
But just a slight amount of like you ever have good partners a slight amount of resistance But then go through those motions with like a little bit of speed but not not like full blast sure But the whole idea is just get those numbers in BAM BAM BAM Eddie Bravo is the best explanation for this he says

00:16:07 Speaker_01
You know when you tie your shoe, you don't think about tying your shoe. You just go, shht, bing, and your shoe just ties, right? Because you tie your shoes every fucking day. You know exactly how to tie your shoes.

00:16:17 Speaker_01
Once you learn how to tie your shoes, it's shht, bing. He goes, that's what a jiu-jitsu move is. It's like, it just gets in there. And sometimes you don't know it's happening until it's happened. Like, all of a sudden you have a triangle, like, whoa.

00:16:30 Speaker_01
That was helpful. Yeah.

00:16:31 Speaker_01
It's just, it's just, you've done it so many times that when someone overextends or when someone gives up their neck or it's just cinches up, it's just one of those things where your whole nervous system is just pre-programmed to these very specific movements.

00:16:46 Speaker_00
Yeah, so you've taken all these little closed skills which are replicatable and then put them in open format where like the if-then scenario, like the flowchart just goes go, go, go, go, no-go.

00:16:56 Speaker_01
And the best guys are the guys that drill constantly and then also study and take notes. Like Gordon Ryan, that's his belt up there. Gordon trains 365 days a year. 365 days a year. And he doesn't take any days off. And he trains all fucking day long.

00:17:18 Speaker_01
So if you want to beat him, good luck. Because you have to catch those numbers. You have to bypass those numbers somehow. It's not like he's not It's not like he's not intelligent. It's not like he's not physically strong.

00:17:30 Speaker_01
So he's got all those attributes already. And then you have this insane work ethic along with dedication to technique. Yes. And you'd have years or decades to catch up. Exactly. And you just can't.

00:17:43 Speaker_01
And so there's too many guys in jujitsu that were just like big muscle heads, that would just like muscle a move and just give a lot of grunt. And you're never going to beat a technique guy who's just as strong as you.

00:17:57 Speaker_00
Right. That uses less percentage of their power and everything to get the same job done.

00:18:01 Speaker_01
Also knows exactly where to be. You might not know exactly where to be because you've gotten away with a lot of stuff because you're big. Because you're big and you're strong and you've pushed through stuff. Like big guys on their back.

00:18:13 Speaker_01
There's a lot of big guys, they get on their back and they become turtles. They don't know what to do because they never get put on their back. Because if they're training, if you're a guy who's 250 pounds and you're in a normal jiu-jitsu gym,

00:18:25 Speaker_01
What are the odds there's another 250-pound guy there? Most guys are 190, 200, maybe there's a 210. There's not a lot of really big guys.

00:18:34 Speaker_00
But a 6'3", 250, this ain't happening. It's rare.

00:18:36 Speaker_01
It's rare. So you usually can push these guys onto their back, and that's easier to do. So you probably do that more often, and you like smashing people, so you smash all these people. But the problem is then you never develop a bottom game.

00:18:48 Speaker_01
You never develop a guard. You never develop ability to get out from under a big guy and do it technically. Get that under hook. Work for a deep half. Figure a way to get back up to your feet. You're just always used to overpowering people.

00:19:04 Speaker_01
And then when someone's bigger than you, you're fucked.

00:19:06 Speaker_00
Way. You're fucked. So were you always

00:19:10 Speaker_01
Strong like I was always strong, but I didn't really start lifting weights until I got into jiu-jitsu Okay, I mean I always lifted a little bit of weights I worked out a little bit, but I was more into kickboxing than anything sure but when I started doing jiu-jitsu I was like oh being strong.

00:19:24 Speaker_01
It's like a big advantage. Yeah, it's a huge advantage. Yeah, I

00:19:27 Speaker_01
Which is interesting, because I was watching this video where these guys were talking about this, these wrestlers, and they were saying that wrestling has always acknowledged that power is really important, but for some reason, jujitsu, they would like to pretend that it's not important, that technique is everything.

00:19:41 Speaker_00
Was it cultural, from where it was?

00:19:44 Speaker_01
Like, were the Gracies and, like, was that a thing? I think technique is more important, right? Because if a guy doesn't have technique and he has strength, and you have technique, you can beat him.

00:19:54 Speaker_00
But you can't discount really effing strong.

00:19:56 Speaker_01
Right. But you also can't discount a guy who's really fucking strong with technique. And they're not mutually exclusive. No. Like a lot of guys who are really fucking strong also know how to grapple. And that's a giant problem.

00:20:08 Speaker_00
Now is there, like in the throws world, we always talk about like technique, speed is everything. Explain to people what you're talking about when you say throws world.

00:20:15 Speaker_00
Like yeah, so I'm one of those nerdy guys that pick the sport that's like the least paying sport of all time. I was a hammer thrower. So it's like a shot put steel ball, 16 pound steel ball on a one meter, you know, three foot long wire.

00:20:29 Speaker_00
So what you see on the Olympics, they spin around really, really fast and yell and scream and always make like the highlight reels of guys that scream.

00:20:35 Speaker_01
Where did that come from? Was that a weapon at one point?

00:20:37 Speaker_00
Yeah. Yeah. So they actually in Scotland, they they would use it was a hammer. They would literally have like for agrarian society and they have a cylindrical head on it so they could use it every side. And so that would that became a

00:20:51 Speaker_00
Way to train for battle because they weren't allowed the Scottish weren't allowed to have weapons Yes, so they would start throwing stones and the Braveheart days. Yes or during those days.

00:21:01 Speaker_00
So they weren't supposed to have weapons So they're like f this we're just gonna take all the stuff we we have and stay strong. Stay ready and

00:21:08 Speaker_00
And then actually their their stone was called the clack nart which meant stone of strength was a great name.

00:21:13 Speaker_00
It's a wonderful name That's a Viking name if I ever heard one back Tell me how badass this is so like each family like the Rogan family like you're the patriarch right you'd have your clack nart up on them Mantle, or whatever it is.

00:21:25 Speaker_00
So at your family outings, whatever outings those may be, all the men, very much like in Braveheart, they would go and throw it. The guy who throws the klacknart, the family stone, the furthest, is kind of like the dude.

00:21:37 Speaker_00
He's like, all right, all right, you, now my son has surpassed me. He's shown he's a man now. Here's the wildest part. This gives me chills.

00:21:45 Speaker_00
So if they went off to battle, they would take their klacknart, their stone, and on the way out of town, they would all put it in a pile. And they're called, this is called a cairn or a cairn. So they would put it in a pile.

00:21:57 Speaker_00
So if they did not return to battle, they had placed their own monument to their town of their sacrifice. Whoa. So could you imagine? So when you go past these old towns and there's a pile, you're like, a lot of guys didn't come home.

00:22:09 Speaker_00
And those piles are still there? When I was in Scotland, they did say a lot of them are still there. I was competing when I did Highland Games, Scottish Highland Games. And it's wild.

00:22:17 Speaker_00
So like, you think about it, you're like, man, you're literally kind of placing your family's stone of like, I'm going off.

00:22:24 Speaker_01
And if I don't show up, like... Dude, I was in Scotland last year and there was... What part of Scotland were you in? God, I wish I could remember.

00:22:35 Speaker_01
I'm not exactly up in the highlands like a little stuff in her Aberdeen I went with some friends and they took us to this place that my friend owns property out there natural and when we went there there was a stone circle that is way older than then Stonehenge no way yeah, and it's just sitting there and

00:22:56 Speaker_00
So the stuff in Scotland's just sitting there.

00:22:58 Speaker_01
It's just sitting there in front of this dude's house and you can go and stand on it I was like, this is crazy and it's got like a little monument on it No one's stopping you from like walking around on it and they're not big stones or like small stones But this stone sir, they're like I'm like who made this I was asking the guy that we were with it's pretty knowledgeable It's like no one knows.

00:23:14 Speaker_01
It's just left left laying around. Yeah, so like Scotland. There you go No, that's not it but It's kind of like that. It wasn't nearly as high. They were smaller standing stones.

00:23:26 Speaker_01
And it was and there's a bunch of them like laying around like there's a guide stone on the ground. Like how old is that? Like that's probably thousands of years old. But nobody knows. Like they don't know who made the stone. Who put it there.

00:23:38 Speaker_01
It's just a guide stone. Like so if you were on a trail through the Scottish Highlands you would find these rocks. We're on the right place lad. And there's this fucking stone that's been there for 3,000 years or whatever.

00:23:50 Speaker_01
Like they don't even know how old it is. And it's just sitting there. Isn't that so cool though? But it's a crazy thing. It was like across the street from this guy's house.

00:23:57 Speaker_01
So he's got like this normal house and there's a little street and then across the street from his house there's this stone circle that's like who knows how fucking old. Nope. It's not that either.

00:24:09 Speaker_00
Yeah, they have like the other stones of strength there, the inverse stone.

00:24:12 Speaker_03
They have a few of them that are older than Stonehenge and Scotland, because all three of these I pulled up. God damn.

00:24:17 Speaker_00
Maybe you were just really high.

00:24:18 Speaker_01
Maybe you were in actually England. Oh, I was totally sober. Look at that image right there. How weird is that one? The Ring of Brodger. How do you say that? Brodger? They have some sweet names over there, too.

00:24:29 Speaker_00
Brodger.

00:24:30 Speaker_01
The Ring of Brodger. Like, what did they do in that ring? How many goats died in that ring? A lot of fights. How many fucking people got sacrificed in that ring? I mean, thousands and thousands of years ago.

00:24:41 Speaker_00
So cool. The stones over there, like, a lot of people go over, a lot of strongmen, they'll do, like, the stone tour. So they'll lift all the, they'll lift the Denny stones and the Inver stone.

00:24:50 Speaker_00
And the Inver stone, I lift that, that was in an old lady's garden.

00:24:54 Speaker_01
Right. There's like a stone.

00:24:55 Speaker_00
It's like a 200. Yeah. It's like a 265 pound, like big egg stone. And it's just laying around. It's literally in this lady's garden. It's called the Inverstone.

00:25:04 Speaker_01
And people go there.

00:25:05 Speaker_00
People go there.

00:25:05 Speaker_01
Ma'am, can I go lift your rock?

00:25:07 Speaker_00
100% what happens. Really? Yeah. were over there competing, the U.S. team, we ran over there and like all the Highland Game guys were like, let's go check this out. We all lifted it. And she invited us in for tea.

00:25:16 Speaker_00
She's like, well, we'll come and come and sign the book. And you look in the book, it's like Bill Kazmaier was here. So and so was here. You're like, oh, my gosh, like the greatest strongman in the world had come as a pilgrimage to lift this stone.

00:25:27 Speaker_00
And then they signed the book. And you're like, so this is awesome. And then across the street. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. And then how do you say that word? We call it the Inverstone. Invercalled stone.

00:25:40 Speaker_01
It seems like it's almost been honed. Doesn't it seem like it was polished to that size?

00:25:46 Speaker_03
Yeah, it chipped.

00:25:48 Speaker_00
Oh, that one actually has numbers on it. Yeah, that's the one I lifted. It says 265 pounds is what it says? Yeah. And so we lifted it. And then actually, so what happened

00:25:57 Speaker_00
After back in the 80s when Kazmaier was coming on the scene, you know, Bill Kazmaier, obviously, world's strongest man, kind of started the stage.

00:26:04 Speaker_00
He allegedly picked it up, you know, it was the man thing, if you could pick it up, he picked it up and carried it across the street and bellied it up to the bar and laid it onto the bar and had a beer.

00:26:13 Speaker_01
I'd be mad if that was my bar.

00:26:14 Speaker_00
Right. Oh, he chipped the crap out of the bar. It did. That was there. I was like, yeah, that's where Bill chipped it. This is badass. I'm not a historian. I like that stuff. So we traveled all around, lifted all the stones. It was cool.

00:26:24 Speaker_00
But anyway, a thrower is a person who decides to do a sport that doesn't pay a lot. No, I'm just kidding. But it's shot put, discus, hammer, javelin. It was all those original Olympic sports that were all weapons.

00:26:36 Speaker_01
That'd be a good sport if you were a trans woman.

00:26:40 Speaker_00
You would dominate. Regular chicks wouldn't have a chance. I'm at 48 years old. I could still throw the living crap out of a woman's implement if I wanted to.

00:26:51 Speaker_00
But yeah, it was a part of the track and field I got into it in college kind of a weird Forrest Gump like story and it changed the course of my life Have you done Lyft run shoot yet with cam?

00:27:02 Speaker_00
I haven't done it with cam No, I've we played around and done some stuff like that at my farm You know during you should do his his podcast the Lyft run shoot show be great It makes you carry a rock up the fucking mountain I went up Pisgah with him.

00:27:15 Speaker_00
I haven't carried the rock, but I'm sure you've done Pisgah. Take the cam rock. I haven't done Pisgah. I'm not doing that.

00:27:22 Speaker_01
Fuck out of here.

00:27:23 Speaker_00
That was rough.

00:27:24 Speaker_01
Yeah.

00:27:24 Speaker_00
That was rough. I started running. I'm not a big cardio guy.

00:27:26 Speaker_01
I'm not interested in going anywhere where that guy's running.

00:27:29 Speaker_00
Dude, he is as advertised as a badass. Oh, he's a complete psychopath. Legit.

00:27:35 Speaker_01
He's one of my best friends. He's a complete psychopath.

00:27:38 Speaker_00
We all got running, and then he kind of left me, and then he got to the top and then did his dance, and then he came back down, and like, hey, man. It was very remarkable. He goes, all right, why do I do this all the time?

00:27:52 Speaker_00
He goes, if we crested this corner right now and you saw the biggest bull of your life at 70 yards, could you make the shot? I'm like, bro, I'm looking on my ear hole right now. I'm screwed. He goes, that's why I do this every day. I'm tracking.

00:28:06 Speaker_01
He's also addicted to exercise. He's addicted to cardio.

00:28:09 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:28:10 Speaker_01
I think it's a state of mind that a lot of those distance runners get in that they get really, really addicted to. And there's a runner's high. Have you experienced that? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Long cardio sessions. Yeah.

00:28:23 Speaker_00
I never have. I've tried it, then I just either get bored or mad at cardio, then I go and lift weights and throw things.

00:28:28 Speaker_01
Well, you've got like that power-strength throwing background, you know, it's like, it doesn't really benefit you to be really into cardio.

00:28:36 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:28:37 Speaker_01
It actually probably would diminish some of your strength.

00:28:38 Speaker_00
Like heavily. Yeah, Greg Glassman back in 07, when I was throwing highland games, he was like, wow, you got to do cardio, or do a crossfit. And I was like, why? And he was like, no, it'll help your throwing.

00:28:49 Speaker_01
Oh, the CrossFit guy?

00:28:50 Speaker_00
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:50 Speaker_01
That doesn't look like it works out at all? That's the one.

00:28:53 Speaker_00
Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:54 Speaker_01
I'm not taking advice from you, buddy.

00:28:55 Speaker_00
Well, I was sitting there and I was like, I'm 265 pounds. He's like, you should do CrossFit. And I'm like, I'm trying to be the best thrower in the world and that has nothing to do with Any of this other stuff.

00:29:04 Speaker_01
Yeah, I have a golden rule when it comes to taking advice. I don't take advice from anybody looks like shit That's sound the sound advice If you look like shit, I'm not taking advice. I know you had like some physical problems, right?

00:29:20 Speaker_00
But the bottom line is unknown and unknowable was not my sport my sport was extremely known and extremely knowable I know the Olympic trials are on this day and I need to show up. Yeah really far. I

00:29:29 Speaker_01
And also if you want to be a power lifter or if you want to do some just completely power focus exercise It does not benefit you to spend time getting in like extreme cardiovascular shape Like you do need to do what kind of running the cam does yeah, and it's not even not beneficial.

00:29:45 Speaker_00
It's detrimental, right? I mean we would joke like why? run when you could walk, why walk when you could sit down, and why sit down when you could lay down. Like, as throwers, that was what we would do.

00:29:56 Speaker_00
And we would lay down every chance, and eat every chance you get, and then we were like, I'm gonna stand up and do something really hard and fast for three seconds, and then I'm gonna go rest for a while. Call me when I'm back up.

00:30:06 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean, there's different things have different requirements. But if you want to be a mountain elk hunter, what he does is very beneficial.

00:30:14 Speaker_00
I just can't run.

00:30:16 Speaker_01
I have a bad left knee that's been really bothering me the last few years. And I just twisted it again, this September.

00:30:22 Speaker_00
Yeah, you're saying your sciatica was a little tweaked up.

00:30:24 Speaker_01
That was another problem. That was from overuse of, no, it's just being stupid. That's overuse of archery. What? Yeah, because I have two bows. I have a bow that's 84 pounds and a bow that's 90 pounds. So I'm pulling these 90 pound bows 100 times a day?

00:30:44 Speaker_00
Are you shooting that many times a day?

00:30:45 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah.

00:30:46 Speaker_00
Good for you.

00:30:47 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah. Oh, you have to.

00:30:50 Speaker_01
for that moment when like a fucking giant bull walks in between the trees and you have a 70 yard shot you have to 100% be confident that you can make that shot and so I'm shooting at 84 yards over and over and over and over and I'm obsessive but the problem was I developed like tendinitis in my lower back

00:31:12 Speaker_01
So it's overuse from the stabilizing, from like holding yourself. So it's the pulling, I'm sure that's it, but it's also holding it right there in that position, and it's all in my right lower back. But it's much, much better now.

00:31:27 Speaker_01
I started doing this thing called NuFit. Talked about it the other day with Derek. where they're doing electrical muscular stimulation while you go through exercises, it's really helpful. Really? Yeah, it's been three weeks.

00:31:38 Speaker_00
It's like a microcurrent or more like a... It juices you up, like it's... All the muscles contract. Like stem kind of thing.

00:31:45 Speaker_01
Yeah, but it's very strong. And you can crank up the intensity. So this is some of the shit, like you saw Mike Tyson when he was training for Jake Paul, he was doing that.

00:31:56 Speaker_01
Like, what I think it's really good for, I don't know if it's good for a lot of these things, but it's really good for rehabilitation. For rehabilitation, I think there's tremendous benefits to it.

00:32:07 Speaker_01
And I bet there's some benefits for athletes for working on specific things and doing it while you're getting juiced up.

00:32:14 Speaker_01
And for for me, it's been it's helped me quite a bit It was pretty quickly to like throws it on that specific spot or they they firing something else No, that's right firing a lot of different parts of your back.

00:32:26 Speaker_01
So it's like both sides of my back my obliques my core and

00:32:30 Speaker_01
and just going through a bunch of rotational exercises and a bunch of different things to strengthen lower back and just, you know, you're getting a lot of blood flow through there and stretching it and it just was, I was getting pain and I was like, shut up, pussy, and I would just ignore the pain and then it just got bad.

00:32:47 Speaker_01
It got bad to the point where my hips were getting kind of numb and when I was hiking up hills, like in October, when I was hunting in October, it was bothering me a lot. I was like, okay, I've got to really do something about this now.

00:32:56 Speaker_00
Yeah, because you could be, you know, Talk yourself in or out of something really hard, but if it's something that's just going to be chronic, you're like, well, I'm screwing myself.

00:33:04 Speaker_01
I was turning it chronic, but it's a lot better now.

00:33:06 Speaker_00
Good.

00:33:06 Speaker_01
It's a lot better now. And it's only been three weeks. Oh, that's great.

00:33:10 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:33:10 Speaker_01
My knee is still fucked, but not totally. What's the knee from? It's mostly soft tissue. I twisted it. I twisted it crossing slippery ground in September. And I've had a lot of problems with it. I've had two knee surgeries. I had my ACL reconstructed.

00:33:29 Speaker_01
I had a meniscus piece removed.

00:33:32 Speaker_01
And then when I was skiing, the last time I skied, last and final time I ever ski, this lady who didn't know how to ski, she like slid into the trail and I had to try to not wipe out, not hit her rather, and I wiped out and I got what's called the insufficiency fracture.

00:33:49 Speaker_01
Hmm, so it's a for the bone fractured at the top of my shin my fibula or my tibia rather Right where the cartilage is and so yeah that created quite a bit of pain And then I twisted it again one time when I was about to get on stage I

00:34:07 Speaker_01
At Stubbs, I was going to Stubbs which is like this outside concert venue and I was looking at my phone to turn my voice recorder on so I could like record and as I was doing that I twisted my knee on this concrete step.

00:34:20 Speaker_01
Just yanked the shit out of it to the point where my leg was shaking while I was on stage because I was in pain. It looked like I was super nervous, but it was really just pain.

00:34:27 Speaker_00
Because I think at this point you get super nervous on stage when you're talking.

00:34:32 Speaker_01
No, once I'm up there, I'm not nervous at all. Do you still get nervous beforehand? I get excited. I think anything you do that you really care about, you should get excited.

00:34:41 Speaker_00
I used to call it my national leg when I would go to national championships in the Hammer. All year, I'd be fine. And when I would wind the hammer on the first one, when I took the hammer back, my right leg would bounce. And I'm like, ah, there it is.

00:34:52 Speaker_00
It was one throw a year. And I was like, here we go. We're back.

00:34:56 Speaker_01
They also had adrenaline.

00:34:57 Speaker_00
Oh, it was adrenaline. Because physically, you're peaking for it. You're like, this is the day I have to compete. You remember how it was. But you're like, this is the day. And everything else is kind of work. And then you're like, I'm cashing out today.

00:35:10 Speaker_00
I get to cash out today. And then it's like, oh, that's the best.

00:35:14 Speaker_01
That's the best. Doing exciting things is really fun. And it's so important for you to grow as a human. Do something that scares the shit out of you. Do something that excites you. Do something that's difficult. Yes.

00:35:27 Speaker_00
Yeah. And it's almost, I don't know, sometimes it's good when it's a more dynamic where you don't know when it's going to happen, but, but looking forward to something is pretty bad ass too.

00:35:35 Speaker_00
Cause then you could start focusing training or focusing efforts and then going through like almost stages of guilt, but stages of excitement. And you're like, okay, am I excited? No, I got this one. Don't just go back and forth. Let's go. It's live.

00:35:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's what it is with everything. I mean, I think it's these processes of like recognizing there's a goal, working towards it, solving problems, working hard, pushing yourself through discipline. That's how you grow.

00:36:00 Speaker_01
And it's like that's how everything grows, right? This is how your mind grows. This is how your body grows. This is how your life grows. Like you have to do stuff that's hard. And then you get better at doing stuff that's hard.

00:36:10 Speaker_01
And that's how you get better.

00:36:12 Speaker_00
Yeah, and then you level up and you're in this next wilderness. You're like, all right, well, what's the next thing?

00:36:16 Speaker_01
But when that alarm clock goes off, it's so hard to know that. You know all these things, but the force of the bed, the gravity of that warm bed.

00:36:25 Speaker_00
Oh, it's cold in the room. Oh!

00:36:29 Speaker_01
Especially, like, shout out to people who live in, like, Alaska.

00:36:32 Speaker_00
Oh! When they have to get out of bed. Dude. Fuck. I'm sure you've done some hunts where you're in a tent or something. Oh, yeah. And then you're like, I know I really want to get out there, but oh my. You're like, my boots are frozen.

00:36:45 Speaker_00
And you're like, maybe that bull will just kind of walk more this way.

00:36:49 Speaker_01
First hunt I ever did was with Steve Rinell in Montana. Oh, yeah.

00:36:52 Speaker_00
I remember seeing that.

00:36:53 Speaker_01
It was 9 degrees in the morning. We were just like, jeez.

00:36:59 Speaker_00
That was the hunt that started it all for you, wasn't it? Yes. Little forky kind of buck. That's him right there.

00:37:04 Speaker_01
No, okay. That's the buck. Yeah, that's the first buck I ever shot.

00:37:10 Speaker_00
That's him. Yeah. The buck that launched a thousand hunting careers.

00:37:16 Speaker_01
Well, it was a life-changing experience, but one of those things where you realize, like, wow, where would we be without houses? And it was only, by the way, it was only, I think, October. It was October of 2012. I'm pretty sure it was October.

00:37:33 Speaker_01
And it was already nine degrees in Montana. Like, what was it like in February for these poor fucks?

00:37:39 Speaker_00
What's January like in the morning? And you're in a tent? Fuck. Well, it's like Josh Smith up there at MKC has talked about it. He's like, yeah, everyone loves Yellowstone. Y'all about to find out in February. He's like, everyone wants to move here.

00:37:51 Speaker_00
He goes, stick around. It's going to get live here in about January or February.

00:37:55 Speaker_01
How many people got super confused by that show and bought a house there? And they're like, what is this? Why is the ground solid? Exactly. Oh, I love it. He's like, this is fantastic.

00:38:06 Speaker_01
especially someone who's never lived in the real north before, you don't know what happens when your ground freezes. The ground is a piece of rock, so if you fall on it, it's a rock. Everything freezes, yeah.

00:38:19 Speaker_00
That's a whole different animal.

00:38:21 Speaker_01
It's a different way to live, that's for sure. But I was talking with this gentleman yesterday, Rick Strassman, who's a scientist.

00:38:31 Speaker_01
But we were talking about the time where he was living in Alaska, and he was living in Alaska And he lived in Southern California, and then he moved to Fairbanks where it's 39 degrees below zero Oh, and he's like what the hell and then it's dark for like 10 hours Everyone's depressed.

00:38:48 Speaker_01
Yeah vitamin. We're not dark for 10 hours rather. It's it's only light for four hours It's light for four hours, so it's dark for 20 hours Yeah You've been to Alaska a lot, I would think. You like it? A few times. I like the people up there. They're hardy.

00:39:04 Speaker_01
That's a good way to put it. They're a different kind of human.

00:39:07 Speaker_00
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:08 Speaker_01
Battle tested.

00:39:09 Speaker_00
They are, and everyone wears extra tough boots.

00:39:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, you don't want to get caught outside with some fucking bullshit flip flops.

00:39:16 Speaker_00
Yeah, and if your boots are too clean, you'll get made fun of openly. They're like, hey, nice new extra toughs.

00:39:21 Speaker_01
You know, you're friends with Tyler from Archer Country. Tyler's always walking around everywhere with flip flops.

00:39:26 Speaker_00
Bro, that guy hunted yesterday in shorts. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's different. He killed it here in shorts.

00:39:31 Speaker_01
If you're in Alaska and you have flip-flops, you're gonna die. You're gonna, your feet are gonna freeze off. You're gonna have no feet.

00:39:37 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:39:38 Speaker_01
Like you need boots.

00:39:39 Speaker_00
I was out at a bar out there, we were in Homer, Alaska, and we were playing pool and jacking around.

00:39:44 Speaker_01
Where's Homer?

00:39:44 Speaker_00
Homer is, they have this big spit that comes out, I don't know, it's in Alaska somewhere.

00:39:49 Speaker_01
How far up?

00:39:52 Speaker_00
Far? It's all far.

00:39:54 Speaker_01
Alaska's big, man. I don't know. When you see how big it is, and you lay it over the country.

00:39:58 Speaker_00
Jamie, where's Homer?

00:40:00 Speaker_01
How much we stole from the Russians.

00:40:01 Speaker_00
There it is. Of course you'd have that.

00:40:03 Speaker_01
There it is.

00:40:03 Speaker_00
Yeah, there it is. So we were, yeah. Goddamn, Alaska's big. It's so cool, isn't it? So we were on that big spit. So we were on that bay, which is crazy. And yeah, so we were down there, and we were at a bar goofing around.

00:40:19 Speaker_00
And I remember I walked into the bathroom, and I just kind of noticed, I was like, wow, there's no mirror on the wall, whatever. I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And one of the guys was like,

00:40:29 Speaker_00
Yeah, there's no mirrors in the bathrooms in Alaska, because it doesn't matter what you look like. You better just be capable or you're going to die. And I was like, what a cool place. He's just like, no one cares what you look like here.

00:40:39 Speaker_00
Everyone's hair is all froed out, and they're dirty and oily and greasy. He's like, yeah, that's the flex here, if you can make it.

00:40:47 Speaker_01
That's interesting.

00:40:47 Speaker_00
Yeah, I was like, oh, what a cool. But yeah, we were sitting in that bay. looking across the bay with a pair of spotters and looking at tracks and seeing animals across the bay like 19 miles away. It was crazy on that white snow. It was wild.

00:41:01 Speaker_00
I never thought you could see that far with a spotting scope.

00:41:04 Speaker_01
No kidding. How much magnification? 90.

00:41:07 Speaker_00
Oh, wow. Yeah, some monsters. But still, it was like, yeah, a big Swarovski that you could see, you know, all of Elon's stuff up in space with, probably.

00:41:15 Speaker_01
Imagine those poor fools that had to hunt with traditional bows, no binos, no spotting scopes, no wind checker, no app finder, no apps. I have apps. I have everything. Oh, yeah. I have a range finder that syncs up with my app. Of course you do.

00:41:32 Speaker_01
I haven't even set it up yet.

00:41:33 Speaker_00
Do you nerd out on all this stuff like I do?

00:41:35 Speaker_01
I do. See, here's the problem. I have a Leupold rangefinder. I really like Leupold's full draw. The reason why I like it is because it'll show you the arc of your arrow. This is how nerdy it is, folks. So my arrows go 294 feet per second. How heavy?

00:41:55 Speaker_01
These are 475, 475 grains. And you calculate all this stuff. You put all this stuff into the rangefinder. And the rangefinder knows exactly how heavy your arrow is, exactly what the peak of it's going to be as it comes off your bow, how fast it's going.

00:42:14 Speaker_01
And it gives you a line. So that line. So if I'm shooting through a gap in some trees, and I actually did this a couple of years ago, I actually did it when I had a Garmin rangefinder, right?

00:42:24 Speaker_01
So the Garmin is a range-finding sight, which is pretty badass. I've always wanted to play with one of those. It kept fucking up, though. And apparently they're getting better, but they fucked me a couple times. And it would fuck me on my range.

00:42:36 Speaker_01
I'd be at full draw on my range, and I know it's 84 yards, and I press the button, and I'm not getting a range. And I press the button again. So you would press the button, and it would give you a red dot. When it works,

00:42:48 Speaker_01
It's the greatest thing of all time, because it's like a pistol. You see that red dot, that clear lens, and then that dot? It's the best sight picture of all time, of all time.

00:42:59 Speaker_01
Everything else, like the post or the side post, they get a little in the way, just a touch. Not not bad. I can deal with it.

00:43:06 Speaker_01
You know, but that red dot was fucking amazing So I shot this I'll show you the bull afterwards I shot this big bull and he was coming through this gap and I wasn't sure if the arrow was gonna make it there So I pulled out the second range finder and I clicked on that and I got the height of the arrow I knew I could make it and then I used the range finding site and

00:43:28 Speaker_01
So a man that knows his tools the opposite of these guys with their traditional bow point. Yeah, like You know, I'm using technology. Sure. So the new loophole though.

00:43:38 Speaker_01
The problem is it doesn't have this This height thing in it, but the new one when you range an animal with on X hunt Yeah, you'll range the animal and it mark puts a pin down where that animal is.

00:43:49 Speaker_00
Yep. I actually had the I was one of the test subjects for that. They sent me, yeah, probably two years ago I was hunting at Deseret with it, giving them feedback.

00:43:58 Speaker_00
We found a mule deer the day before and I ranged him, marked him, and we went back the next day and I shot him at 14 yards.

00:44:05 Speaker_01
That's crazy. It was awesome. That's crazy because you can go back to the actual spot where he was.

00:44:09 Speaker_00
Yeah, it threw it off to my phone and it was like the, I can't remember what it's called, it's the range, but it has like the LL- Something 500. 500, yeah, something like that.

00:44:18 Speaker_01
See if you can find it, Jamie.

00:44:19 Speaker_00
It's pretty dope. It's super cool.

00:44:21 Speaker_01
I love Leupold shit. I just wish their glass was as good as Swarovski's. Yeah, everybody I say that about every like vortex makes awesome by nose for the money.

00:44:30 Speaker_01
You can't beat them Especially their HDX series those really high-end ones are fucking great until you put it through Pick up those NL pures, and you're like yeah, you're like it's so that's almost like I wish I never looked through Oh, it's that's yeah, that's the rx 5000 that thing is bad.

00:44:48 Speaker_01
It's pretty dope so it does it syncs up with your onyx hunt So you could show you how it works there? So what's really good about that is not just, you know, you know where you hit the you know where the animal is.

00:45:00 Speaker_01
So if you have to go around somewhere and get back to him, you'll you'll be able to get right to, you know, if you're trying to get away from the wind.

00:45:08 Speaker_00
Well, the spot in stock is so nice because we were hunting mule deer in Arizona and you could Same thing, you're circling around and your depth of perception, I've been 200 yards off.

00:45:21 Speaker_01
I feel like this is more designed though for the rifle hunter. And this is like, they're even showing guys like going 2000 yards with this thing.

00:45:30 Speaker_01
I feel like for the bow hunter, they just need to add, maybe it'll just make it too big, but add that height of arrow technology. I don't know why they wouldn't put that in there. Yeah, cuz I can't use it. I I need that that that is so huge hunting.

00:45:44 Speaker_01
Yeah for me It's like gaps or everything.

00:45:47 Speaker_01
I want to be able to be sneaky and just make my way around a tree Just give me this give me this much and if it's and if I know that the arrows never gonna hit the top or the bottom I'm golden and I have full confidence because otherwise it's a mindfuck because I'm sure you've had arrows hit branches.

00:46:02 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah, I It sucks so hard when you whack.

00:46:06 Speaker_00
Yeah. You're living in Cleveland somewhere.

00:46:08 Speaker_01
A few years back in Utah.

00:46:11 Speaker_03
That one I had pulled up had a TBR was made for ballistics. Four I think this morning. These are all for archery.

00:46:17 Speaker_01
Yes. The foot well the TBR so the right. Yeah. That is that one is a similar one that was like I don't think that's as sophisticated, though, and I don't think that has the app.

00:46:28 Speaker_01
I think the RX one is the only one with the app, but I have that one, the Full Draw 5. I don't go anywhere without that. It's the shit.

00:46:34 Speaker_01
That is, to me, I've had a bunch of different ones that were really cool, like Aaron Schneider turned me on to this Nikon a while back that was image stabilizing. That was a game changer.

00:46:46 Speaker_01
That's a big deal because you could really like the rangefinder on the animal.

00:46:51 Speaker_00
Yeah image stabilizing rangefinder Yeah, I use image stabilizing binoculars. Have you used those sig ones? I've used cams. I tried that those things pretty dope.

00:47:00 Speaker_00
I'm running 16s Yeah, all right, because you could just hold them because you just hold I have I've run Swarovs since 1999

00:47:09 Speaker_00
Mm-hmm, and I started leaving mine at home because I like the SIG so much and they did the new HD So it has a better glass now still not as clear as Suarez.

00:47:17 Speaker_00
I mean, that's just but because you could stabilize I could run sixteenths and I'll run sixteenths in the woods because I could just peer through everything and like boom I ran 12s in the woods this year, which is a little too much and

00:47:30 Speaker_00
when you're not stabling.

00:47:31 Speaker_01
I usually run 10s, but sometimes... 10x42s? Yeah. Sometimes when you're looking at something that's really far off, you're like, I don't know if that's a good bull. Is that worth chasing? The 12s make all the difference in the world.

00:47:44 Speaker_01
But what I do is I grab my baseball hat. I learned this trick from Remy Warren. Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, so what you do is you- Remy's a killing son of a gun. He's a killing son of a moth.

00:47:55 Speaker_01
You clip that sucker down tight so your hat's on tight, and then I'll do this, and I'll hold my binos right here. Or take my bow and put it here, and then stack it on top of the bow.

00:48:05 Speaker_01
Press the bow up against your chest so it's not going to go anywhere, and then stack it on top of the cam of the bow. A lot of guys do that, but Remy taught me this one, and I think this one's super legit. Just hold on to your hat. Super fast, too.

00:48:16 Speaker_01
And you can tuck your elbows in like this, and you can really keep it stable. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't use 12s, but I don't think I'm going to use 12s anymore anyway. Really? No, I think 10s are the way to go.

00:48:27 Speaker_01
Maybe even 8s, because you get a bigger field of view. Because a lot of times I'm seeing stuff through trees, and I'm sneaking around. You know, I'm a big spot and stalk guy. I've tried a bunch of different hunting. I've tried ground blind.

00:48:42 Speaker_01
I tree stand hunted with Dudley. That, you can go fuck yourself with that. Sit in those trees all day? Fuck that. I am way too ADHD for that.

00:48:53 Speaker_00
You'll find out if you're crazy.

00:48:55 Speaker_01
Oh, I'm crazy. I'm definitely crazy. I don't like it. I don't like being up there in a tree like that.

00:49:01 Speaker_00
Here's my question, though. I was just in Missouri. I went to our farm. I was there six or seven days, and we sit 30 minutes before to 30 minutes all day. Yeah, you have to.

00:49:13 Speaker_00
But I would think with as many people as popping on you and all this, it was nice. Because for me, I'm like, I'm quiet. I could just be... I enjoy that part where I could just unravel and think through problems.

00:49:27 Speaker_00
But yes, you go crazy and then you burn out your phone because you're like, and I'm gonna search for the dumbest things possible. I'm gonna buy socks.

00:49:37 Speaker_01
Also, you don't realize, like, if it's 30 degrees out, like, 30 degrees is no big deal. You can walk around 30 degrees. But as soon as you're sitting there in 30 degrees, you get so fucking cold.

00:49:46 Speaker_01
You're not moving, so you're not generating any heat at all. So then you're in this stupid body warmer suit that zips up.

00:49:52 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah, you're like in a big Snuggie.

00:49:54 Speaker_01
It's a big old oven, and my hands are in here. But the problem with that is, if a deer comes in, you gotta zip. You gotta make all that noise. You gotta get out of it, all this movement. Grab your bow. So you really shouldn't do that.

00:50:06 Speaker_01
So you try to go with a puffy, but you're still freezing So then I started doing Bruce Lee exercises One thing I realized I I was so cold I had a hard time pulling my bow back once Yeah, I was going to shoot this deer and I was up there in Iowa four or five hours Yeah, and I went and I go to pull that bow back.

00:50:24 Speaker_01
I'm like Jesus. Well, cuz you shoot a 90-pound bow Yeah, but I was so cold part of it.

00:50:28 Speaker_00
Yeah. Oh, no, it's yeah I'll sit there and just do like

00:50:31 Speaker_01
I had a 95-pound bow for a while. Oh, I remember when he made you that one. Yeah. I couldn't draw it on my knees. I had to stand up. You know how I found that out? Because you couldn't.

00:50:40 Speaker_01
Because I was on my knees, right behind a bush, and an elk walked behind me. I'm like, fuck! God damn it. You're like, that was super helpful. And I was in a weird spot, too, where I could only lean on my left leg, too.

00:50:49 Speaker_01
Like, so it was, you know, it was like, I was on my knee, but I was even on my left knee. It was like a fucked-up hill. Right, and you don't have a good... Yeah, I was like, my right knee was up like this, my left knee was down there.

00:50:58 Speaker_01
I was like, this is bullshit! That bow was crazy. I remember when you texted me. It would shoot 540 grain arrows, 305 feet per second.

00:51:08 Speaker_01
Bro, when it hits it was just like Like I remember we were shooting at the Deseret and we were all shooting at a hundred yards Just me and a couple of these guys Yeah, and they shot first and then I shot and the guys go what the fuck are you shooting?

00:51:24 Speaker_01
Cuz the bow was still rolling at that he goes that bow is so flat. What is that? I guess a 95 pound bow. It was the dumbest thing ever. I remember you said me. He's like this thing's preposterous so dumb. I

00:51:36 Speaker_01
It also had a really short brace height, so it was super sketchy. So if you moved your hand, it was so unforgiving that if you moved your hand even slightly, you were off target by six inches.

00:51:46 Speaker_00
Oh, geez.

00:51:47 Speaker_01
It was really twitchy.

00:51:48 Speaker_00
Driving a little Tokyo Drifter around all the time.

00:51:50 Speaker_01
It was so dangerous. Not dangerous, really, but you just wouldn't... I wouldn't trust it. You know I killed a couple animals with it, and I stopped trusting Yeah, you get to put it on the wall and go well Then I went to an 80-pound bow from Hoyt.

00:52:03 Speaker_01
I was like oh my god. This is so much better. It was like 15 20% more accurate Yeah, I just got that rx9 like last week.

00:52:12 Speaker_00
That's great. Yeah, it's I'm shooting 76, but I'm 30 and a half inches so I got pretty good stroke on it

00:52:18 Speaker_01
Oh yeah, man. I need some extra horsepower at 28 and a quarter.

00:52:23 Speaker_00
I'm shooting 520 grain at about 282. So it's moving out.

00:52:30 Speaker_01
That's great. Guys like Randy Ulmer, he likes 265 to 280. He thinks that's the range where the arrows are the most accurate. There's this thing about having too much fucking whip. Yep.

00:52:48 Speaker_01
You know, there's too much and it's almost like... You get too much flex on the arrow. There's a lot of flex on the arrows and it's probably more subject to wind drift when they're flexing like that.

00:52:57 Speaker_00
It's like when we used to throw the javelin, there was different rated javelins and you could be too strong for the jab. And so if you don't pull through the tip perfectly, just like arrow spine. Right.

00:53:05 Speaker_00
And so you have a 50 meter jab, 60 meter jab, 70 meter. And when you start getting strong, you could bend a 50 meter jab like a banana. It's kind of fun actually. It comes out like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like Lamar from, what was it, Revenge of the Nerds?

00:53:20 Speaker_00
Oh, okay. But yeah. That makes sense that it would be just like arrows.

00:53:24 Speaker_01
Yep. Because for folks at home, say if you have a 50 pound bow, you could probably get away with a 320 green arrow, 330, 350.

00:53:34 Speaker_01
So the higher the number the more flexible the spine of the arrow is and the lighter the arrow will be right so I Shoot a 250 so it's like a nice stiff Energy yeah, yeah, especially how much weight you have in the front that more of a flex exactly, but it's to me It's all about like I've heard arguments before like people say oh, you don't need that much bow power You don't shut your fucking dirty little skinny mouth

00:54:03 Speaker_01
Because the only reason why you would say that is because you can't pull that back. That's the only reason. And if you think that 70 pounds to you is the same as 70 pounds to me and you don't work out, that's just dumb. That doesn't make any sense.

00:54:17 Speaker_00
Yeah. It's like saying, well, you don't need a 500 pound deadlift. to look, yeah, but it's nice.

00:54:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, but if you can't squat 500 pounds, and you have to squat 500 pounds, you can't do it, I can. So shut the fuck up.

00:54:29 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's nice to have in your pocket. Shut your dirty little skinny hole.

00:54:32 Speaker_01
Yeah. Because all that is, is you're just saying there's virtue in being physically weak, and that's stupid. That's stupid. Do you need to be able to pull back 80 pounds to kill an elk? No.

00:54:43 Speaker_01
If you can pull back 80 pounds, and you're really accurate with 60 pounds, and you have a cut on contact broadhead, you can be successful. But I'm going through that whole animal. Yeah.

00:54:53 Speaker_01
I'm getting a pass through on a giant animal and you're probably not gonna. Yeah. And I think that's it's more important to be able to have the most ultimately lethal set up possible. I learned this from Cam. He's my mentor. Yeah.

00:55:07 Speaker_01
He's a guy who taught me how to bow hunt. And you know his whole thing is he shoots a 90 pound bow as well. It's like the most amount of power and you want to make a big fucking hole.

00:55:17 Speaker_00
Yes. And you want that animal to die like that. Well with anything, why would more horsepower, if you could handle it, not be advantageous? It's stupid. That's why race cars have limits on the amount of power you can have.

00:55:28 Speaker_01
It's more advantage. If Formula One drivers figured out a way to get a 4,000 horsepower engine and have it handle, they would win. They would win.

00:55:35 Speaker_00
Or if you could punch 30% harder than everyone else in UFC, do it.

00:55:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, literally, that's how Francis Ngannou became the heavyweight champion of the world. Fuck, it's harder than anybody.

00:55:47 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's interesting. My buddy, Loren Landau, strength coach, I was talking to him last week, and he did actually a study on ground force power into punching. And they did, so they tested it on like a force plate, jump and force plate.

00:56:04 Speaker_00
And then they did a Proteus machine. Have you ever seen one of those? It's like you kind of throw it and push it, kind of the same thing. So they tested the power of the punch, then tested ground force.

00:56:14 Speaker_00
And then they did squats, but they also did like a trap bar deadlift. And then the training was a jammer arm, like a jammer arm punch. So they had the sequence of force.

00:56:24 Speaker_00
And he had a double-digit increase of power through the ground, and it equated to a 12% increase in punching power. So almost percent for percent.

00:56:34 Speaker_00
So you look at that and say, well, if you're stronger, you squat more or deadlift more now, as long as it doesn't take away from the sport. But that has a very, very real effect on punching power.

00:56:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, it does. The way it takes away from the sport is if you're sore from lifting weights, you're not going to train as effectively. That's just a fact.

00:56:56 Speaker_00
Or it takes too much time away from your technique or injury or whatever. That's where steroids come in.

00:57:01 Speaker_01
And that's why Gordon Ryan can train 365 days a year. He's open about it. He's open about his use. Because they don't test for steroids in jujitsu. So he's a wizard. So he's like a pragmatist.

00:57:13 Speaker_00
I figured that they would nope UFC that they do right UFC. They do.

00:57:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, but you ever seen Gordon you're seeing. Oh, yeah.

00:57:20 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah. It's a Photos of Gordon he squared away. Oh

00:57:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean, when you have that, and then you have a genius level IQ, and then on top of that, this big shit-eating grin on his face, and then you have a guy who trains 365 days a year, who also works on technique constantly, that's how you have the greatest of all time.

00:57:47 Speaker_01
But by the way, all those guys like Galvao, the guy who was on the bottom there, he's on the juice too. It's a level playing field. They're all juiced up.

00:57:53 Speaker_00
Right. Right. It was kind of like the lifters and the throwers of the 80s. Everyone had a 600-pound bench because that's what you do. And guess what? You got a test now.

00:58:01 Speaker_01
Well, this is a great argument to this idea of power being necessary, like with jiu-jitsu and grappling. If you have technique like Gordon's and you're built like him, yeah, giant advantage. Giant advantage to be super strong always. In all of life.

00:58:18 Speaker_00
There's fucking zero advantage of being weak. No, there's never a time you're like, you know what, if I could just get my squat down a bit, that would really pan out for me.

00:58:26 Speaker_01
One thing, though, that is really important. This actually really pays off. If you can train with a guy who's small, Like if you can learn jujitsu with a guy who's small, you'll learn the best jujitsu. Why is that? Because they have to use technique.

00:58:41 Speaker_01
They have to use leverage. Like you're a big fucking strong guy. If you learn jujitsu, you could use that strength. You could squish people's necks and throw them on the ground and grab their arms and stuff like that. But a small guy can never do that.

00:58:55 Speaker_01
So if you can learn jiu-jitsu from like a Barrett Yoshida or a Hoyler Gracie or Eddie Bravo or there's a few of those, Gabe, Gabe Tuttle who teaches over here at 10th Planet. Small guy jiu-jitsu is the best jiu-jitsu because it has to be razor sharp.

00:59:10 Speaker_01
Because they don't have the physical strength to overpower an arm and get you into a certain position just from raw horsepower. They have to sneak it in there with leverage, and they have to do everything perfectly.

00:59:22 Speaker_01
So those guys, if you learn jujitsu from them, you're going to learn the most technical jujitsu.

00:59:28 Speaker_00
Is that obviously a reason why you should learn younger when you're small and weak?

00:59:33 Speaker_01
Well, it's always good to learn young because first of all becomes a natural part of your movement Like it's like as your body matures your bodies. I think it's more important with striking than anything.

00:59:45 Speaker_01
It's very rare that someone Learns how to strike while they're already physically mature and you ever reach the level of like a Floyd Mayweather Right because that guy as he was a child his his body his reflexes developed Striking yeah, and he's just got this

01:00:04 Speaker_01
Massive encyclopedia of information that's available to him.

01:00:08 Speaker_01
He knows exactly when he sees you do this He knows that straight left is coming and he knows all he has to do is do this And he knows that counter is gonna be there when you go to look for the right hand afterwards.

01:00:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, he's just got it all programmed It's slap. It's all just like right in there for you to build that up after you're 28 Like, you're never going to be at his level. You kind of have to, unless you're some physical freak, which they do exist.

01:00:38 Speaker_00
Yeah, but what I've understood, too, is the potential for building speed, which is, let's be honest, speed is a big part of power, which is punching. It's the sequence of force.

01:00:47 Speaker_00
How do you create force to the ground, explosion of force, not implosion into your arm or your foot or whatever it is. That ends at 22. The potential. to develop the potential for speed. Really?

01:00:59 Speaker_00
Yeah, that's why all the weightlifters and everyone, gymnasts, everyone has to start young. Those firing patterns. So when you're 27 and you try, you'll never?

01:01:08 Speaker_00
You won't reach the potential you could have genetically because you just don't have the sequence, the speed, right? That makes sense. It's the, I know how to do this at speed. It goes whack, whack, whack through here and I could crack that whip.

01:01:20 Speaker_00
Your body just has, it's done too many other things at lower speed.

01:01:25 Speaker_01
You know where I really notice that? with kicking When I teach people kicking there's certain things that they have a really hard time doing fluidly.

01:01:34 Speaker_01
Mm-hmm You know one of the force the big ones is like anything that requires spinning like if you look at a Good MMA fighter that doesn't have like a taekwondo background and you teach them how to throw a wheel kick They'll never be able to throw a wheel kick like like a real taekwondo black belt.

01:01:53 Speaker_01
There's certain guys that, like, as they're young, they're developing these spinning techniques, and they just got it wired in, their whole nervous system just, and it's so smooth and fluid that the power is so extraordinary.

01:02:08 Speaker_01
And, you know, I've taught people that were, like, elite MMA fighters, and I try to teach them how to throw things like a spinning back kick, for instance, and it takes a long time for them, even, like, John Jones' one that he landed,

01:02:22 Speaker_01
like on steep a that that guy's a freak like that that guy is like what we're talking about like you can there's some guys you can teach them things when they're in their 30s and they can develop it like as someone who's been doing it their whole life but that's that's a rare exception another rare exception I was thinking it was Alex Pereira Alex didn't really start striking until he was like 21 years old he didn't even start training but my question would be what other things that he do that that

01:02:49 Speaker_00
that exaggerate like, like that developed that speed and power sequence because like, you know what he did? He worked in a tire shop.

01:02:57 Speaker_01
Really? Yeah, so he's like hoisting tires and hammering tires down and setting wheels.

01:03:03 Speaker_00
Right, so you're learning to do the most, because if you're doing it for a job, you're going to do the most efficient method possible to move an object, right?

01:03:11 Speaker_01
You're also going to- To whip that tire up there to- Develop rotational strength. Right. You're throwing hammers down. I mean, he's doing this eight hours a day, all day long, so think about how many tires he's hammered. In sequencing. Right?

01:03:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's not a training thing for him. Francis Ngannou, when he was a child, worked in a sand mine. So he's fucking digging sand all the time, and he's just, ah! His body's just, as he's developing. How terrifying.

01:03:36 Speaker_01
Also, massive physical specimen, right? So he's like 6'6", or 6'5", whatever he is. 265 natural. built like a fucking Greek god, like a statue. And his whole body's developing as he's a young man digging sand.

01:03:51 Speaker_01
And the anger you have, like, I can't believe I have to dig this fucking sand.

01:03:54 Speaker_00
Could you imagine? It's like the Wheel of Pain, like Conan's just walking. It is like Conan.

01:03:58 Speaker_01
He really is like a guy from a movie. In a sand and then becomes a heavyweight champion of the world was homeless.

01:04:04 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah his his you ever heard his story Oh, yeah, so buddy of mine Bo Sandoval used to run the strength conditioning direct He was a shrinker conditioning director UFC. And so he told me about it years and years.

01:04:15 Speaker_00
He's like we got this guy I was like really he goes. No, this is gonna be a dude and I like Really? He told me his whole story about Cameroon like France and the whole deal and I became like I never even Looked eyes on the guy.

01:04:27 Speaker_00
I was like this guy's he's my guy.

01:04:28 Speaker_01
I wouldn't like I want to like him Oh, he came on the scene like whoosh his life story told on the podcast about Making his trek like he just decided he has to leave Cameroon and I was like, what are you gonna do?

01:04:40 Speaker_01
You can't go anywhere and he went through the fucking desert. Yeah all the way to Morocco and then gets in a raft and does it seven different times.

01:04:48 Speaker_01
He gets arrested, gets taken into custody, they bring him into the middle of the desert, drop him off, he goes right back to Morocco, walks through, hitches rides, took him a year and a half.

01:04:58 Speaker_00
If he makes I don't care how much money that guy makes, it's not enough. For just being able to do that, that is so, so, so cool.

01:05:06 Speaker_01
How about he has one boxing fight and he knocks down the heavyweight champion of the world and one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time. He hits him with a left hook and drops him and almost won. I thought he won the decision. It was over.

01:05:17 Speaker_01
I was like, they're going to give it to him. I think he won the decision. He was battering him in the eighth round. He dropped him in the second. I'm like, I think he won. And a lot of people thought he won.

01:05:26 Speaker_00
Yeah, and he came that close that fucking close And so is that like obviously genetically super gifted?

01:05:33 Speaker_00
Yeah, but then also like we're talking about like shoveling and do all this work when you do that work for that long You learn how to become efficient because you don't want to spend extra time and effort doing stuff So you just learn how to kind of move stuff.

01:05:44 Speaker_01
There's a little bit of that and I think to be To be really charitable, I think Tyson Fury probably didn't think that he had a chance.

01:05:55 Speaker_01
I think Tyson Fury probably didn't train as hard as he would have trained if he thought that Francis was a real threat. I think he probably thought, I'm going to box this guy's fucking face off.

01:06:05 Speaker_01
How could this MMA fighter, and then he gets hit with one of them hammers.

01:06:08 Speaker_00
Yeah, FUD.

01:06:09 Speaker_01
He gets left hooked in the side of his head. He's like, what the fuck did this guy just hit me with? And he's on his ass as the heavyweight champion of the world, fighting a guy with zero professional fights.

01:06:21 Speaker_01
That was his first ever pro fight, his second ever pro round. And he drops one of the greatest heavyweights in the history of the game. Here's my Mount Rushmore of heavyweight boxers. Mike Tyson's number one.

01:06:36 Speaker_01
Mike Tyson from 1986 to like 1990, there was not, or 88, whatever it was, it was a few years before the wheels came off because he was just going crazy and partying and fighting with syphilis and shit. He was a maniac.

01:06:51 Speaker_01
But that guy, the guy who knocked out Michael Spinks, the guy who knocked out Larry Holmes, the guy who won the title from Trevor Burbick, I think that guy's the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He was a juggernaut, man.

01:07:03 Speaker_01
The guy who knocked out Marvis Frazier, that's the scariest version of Tyson ever. The Marvis Frazier version.

01:07:09 Speaker_00
So you were probably late high school? Yeah. So I was a little kid and I remember walking out with my skateboard and they were like, did you see the Larry Holmes fight last night? And I was like, oh no. But ours was like 19 seconds or whatever it was.

01:07:20 Speaker_00
It was crazy. We were just all pumped about it. But you understood it differently than I did as a kid.

01:07:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, well I was doing a little boxing myself and I was a giant boxing fan. He was a freak. He was a very unusual thing. Because every other heavyweight was kind of slow and even if they could hit hard they were lumbering.

01:07:37 Speaker_01
He was bobbing and weaving and moving and he was a small heavyweight. Wasn't even six feet tall. So he's built like a brick shithouse. He's got a 20 inch neck.

01:07:46 Speaker_01
He's 220 pounds, moves like a guy who's 150, and he's throwing lightning bolts at your central nervous system. He's hitting you to the body and your fucking legs are shutting off. He was a monster. I just think you can't maintain that forever.

01:08:03 Speaker_01
And I think I always, when I look at fighters, I try to look at them like when they were white hot. Just burning hot at the highest level that they could achieve. What was that like? Like what was that?

01:08:17 Speaker_01
I feel like as great as Muhammad Ali was Man, I just don't see him surviving. I just not at the height.

01:08:23 Speaker_01
No, no I just I see like Henry Cooper dropped Ali when he was back when he was cash as clay with a left hook and they cheated to get him out of the round and Custom Auto cut his gloves, so they had to take his glove off and replace the gloves.

01:08:39 Speaker_01
They gave him all this recovery time. You ever seen that Henry Cooper fight? Henry Cooper was a bad man. He was this British boxer, this guy from England, who had a nasty left hook, and he caught Cassius Clay just BAM!

01:08:52 Speaker_01
Perfect one it is like leg and he's like slumps down the ropes He was Dunsville, but it was at the end of the round and then Angelo Dundee.

01:09:00 Speaker_01
I mean that guy had been around the block See if you can find that Jamie cuz it's a it's a crate It's a crazy fork in the road in history, right? Cuz if they don't cheat likely He gets stopped

01:09:17 Speaker_01
Likely Henry Cooper who landed the perfect left hook hits him with a couple more right? That's it. He's done He looks done already like watch this Henry Cooper had a nasty left foot good out bro. Look how he's down there Yeah, that's not regular down.

01:09:31 Speaker_01
That's fucked up down. That's like real trouble, but it's the very end of the round Look at this. Bro, but look how he goes down. That is, that's Dunnsville. So if that's a minute earlier, if he gets hit with that, the whole thing changes.

01:09:49 Speaker_01
The whole thing changes. He's not undefeated when he fights Sonny Liston. He's not this unstoppable force.

01:09:55 Speaker_00
Isn't that crazy? Crazy.

01:09:57 Speaker_01
And that can happen. Yeah. And there are fighters that I have seen in the UFC that I go, this guy could be the next fill in the blank. This guy could be the next great welterweight champion, the next great lightweight champion.

01:10:11 Speaker_01
And then they have one fight and in one fight, something happens. They get hit with a flying knee or they get head kicked or something happens. And then

01:10:21 Speaker_01
Their whole path changes and you're like, wow, if that guy wasn't overmatched, if he didn't fight that guy. So this is the difference between boxing and the UFC. The UFC is like, when you're ready, come to us and you're going to fight the best.

01:10:36 Speaker_01
Boxing is like, we're going to build you.

01:10:39 Speaker_01
We're gonna take you and you're gonna fight a few guys that are like real slick But they don't have power and then you're gonna fight a big guy with a lot of power, but he doesn't have any endurance Yeah, and they're like they're like he's ready for this now.

01:10:53 Speaker_01
You know if you have a really good trainer like Tyson Fury's trainer Sugarhill He's analyzing your movements. He's breaking down things. He's figuring out what to change, what not to change, when to back you off at training.

01:11:07 Speaker_01
You're a little too hot right now. Let's not peak too soon because we got two weeks before the fight. I want you to take a day off. Take a day off. I'm ready to fucking eat nails. No, no, no.

01:11:18 Speaker_01
No, they know exactly, and then they're like, he's ready for this level of competition. So they'll give you a guy that'll offer you some struggles, some tests.

01:11:28 Speaker_01
Maybe he's got a big punch, and you might lose the fight, but you're most likely going to win, and this is how you find out if a guy's going to make it. You slowly move them.

01:11:37 Speaker_01
So there's a lot of boxers, by the time they're fighting for the title, they're 14-0, 16-0, 18-0. Charles Oliveira. I mean, what is Charles Oliveira's record? Let's see Charles Oliveira's record.

01:11:50 Speaker_01
So Charles Oliveira, when he became the lightweight champion, he had a ton of losses in the UFC. He got stopped by Paul Felder. He got stopped by Cub Swanson, KO'd him. He got, I think, I'm pretty sure Jim Miller knee-barred him. So what is his record?

01:12:08 Speaker_01
Jim's a freak. Look at that. 35 and 10. Okay. And so out of those 10, a few of them have been recently, scroll back up to the top, please. So the Islam Makhachev, he loses the title and then Armand Saryukyan, he loses a split decision.

01:12:25 Speaker_01
I thought he won that fight, by the way. But it was close. So those are the two out of those 10. So that means, as a champion, he had eight fucking losses. Eight losses, and some of them brutal knockouts.

01:12:38 Speaker_01
Because you're in there with the lions, with all the lions. And so the UFC is like, who's the baddest lion? Let's figure it out. You wanna be in the UFC, you win a few fights, we're gonna throw you in.

01:12:51 Speaker_01
Or if it's last short notice, short notice fight, let's go. And the thing you find out, too, is that the level at the UFC, as great as some of these guys look in these other organizations, the level at the UFC, that's the peak.

01:13:06 Speaker_01
Those are the greatest fighters on the planet. There's no arguing about it. And we found out about that this past weekend because Alexandre Pantoja, who might be the best pound for pound fighter alive, he's the flyweight champion.

01:13:20 Speaker_01
He fought this dude, Kai Asakura from Japan, who's a fucking assassin.

01:13:24 Speaker_01
of Pantoja just ate him alive just ate him alive and he got caught with a couple good shots to a couple good knees to the body and You know Kai Asakura is a really good fighter, but the level was just different like Pantoja just He strangled him, but it's just the way he did it.

01:13:40 Speaker_01
I mean he was fucking him up on the feet He was fucking him up everywhere. He was just pushing him and this like insane pace

01:13:47 Speaker_01
you watch those little guys fight like they can they fight like pit bulls man yeah like just like wild scrambles where they're moving so fast you're trying to call the fight and it's like me and daniel were talking about it during the commentary like we have to recalibrate our brains yeah because you will go from a heavyweight fight to a flyweight fight like whoa

01:14:06 Speaker_00
It's like listening to a podcast when you turn it to 1.5. Yeah. I actually had to start listening to your podcast at regular speed, because I thought you talked really fast.

01:14:16 Speaker_00
I was just like, oh, Joe, no one talks that fast, because I listen to it super fast.

01:14:20 Speaker_01
Somebody sent me a clip of someone, some political person, talking about one of the guests on the show. And I was like, what is wrong with the clip? And then I had to realize, oh, they got it on speeded up version.

01:14:30 Speaker_00
Yeah, do you listen to stuff speeded up? Never. A buddy of mine taught me that. He listens to books. He got up to 4x. But are you absorbing it the same way? I think if you're kind of like Rain Man, which I'm not. I'm not.

01:14:43 Speaker_00
But I can go 1.5 pretty easy, and I could just get through it faster.

01:14:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, I see how that could help. But for me, I'm not doing reading books on tape or listening to books on tape for anything other than my own enjoyment and education. So for me, I'm enjoying it. So I like to think about the things.

01:15:04 Speaker_01
And I'll have more time to think about what this person's saying if they're not going at one and a half speed.

01:15:09 Speaker_01
Because if they're going at one and a half speed and going one concept to the next, then I'm like, wait a minute, I don't understand what you're saying. Then I have to back up. I like to think about stuff.

01:15:16 Speaker_01
So it's like especially if I'm listening to something esoteric or really weird Yeah, you know which is a lot of the stuff that I listen if I'm not listening to fiction I'm probably listening to a book on physics or yeah, I listen to Jack Carr stuff at regular speed because I really just enjoy the books

01:15:32 Speaker_01
Oh, that guy, what is his name?

01:15:34 Speaker_00
Who's the guy who does his... Yeah, by... The guy's really good. Yeah, I can't remember. He has a lot of good dialects and everything. Yeah. Jack texted me this morning. He said hi.

01:15:44 Speaker_01
He's the man.

01:15:44 Speaker_00
He's awesome. I love that.

01:15:46 Speaker_01
You see where he crossed Tomahawks on the wall? Salt of the earth.

01:15:53 Speaker_00
Yeah, we just got him some CMBs report with the Ray Porter that every Porter knew it was a race across Tomahawks on there he's the fucking man and I

01:16:03 Speaker_01
The thing about his books on tape, though, is you're locked into Ray Porter forever. Some new person starts reading.

01:16:08 Speaker_00
Oh, you're screwed.

01:16:09 Speaker_01
Like, who is this guy? This is bullshit. Yeah. You can't have this guy doing it. The guy's amazing. I'm used to all the voices. Rafe is a good voice. Yeah, he's got a South African accent. Yeah, I know. You know who else is really good?

01:16:23 Speaker_01
Who's the guy who does the Gray Man series? There's a guy who does, you ever listen to the Grey Man series? I'm so addicted. Mark Graney writes them. They're so ultra violent. They're so fucking crazy. They're so crazy.

01:16:37 Speaker_01
It's about a CIA hit man who's like a singleton guy and they send all around. Dude, it's so, like they made a movie about it.

01:16:43 Speaker_00
Is it like one of the weird ones that will give you like, you'll think about it all night? Oh yeah. When I would start watching The Sopranos, like my view on the world would change. Jay Snyder, that guy's really good.

01:16:53 Speaker_01
He does really good girl voices too, it's weird. But those fucking books, man, they are so ultra violent. They're so crazy. They're so crazy. Like sometimes I listen to them and I have to shut them up before I go to bed.

01:17:06 Speaker_01
Like if I listen to them, like I like to take the sauna before I go to bed. And so if I'm listening to like, you know, a book on cosmology, that's great. It's interesting. Go to bed, think about space.

01:17:17 Speaker_01
But if I'm listening to some gray man before I go to bed, I'm like, I gotta shut this off.

01:17:20 Speaker_00
Yeah, we don't need that. We don't need that in the house.

01:17:23 Speaker_00
Yeah, people getting their fucking eyeballs like a giant sword shoved through their eyeballs getting blown up grenades in their mouth like hey Do you do you like scroll around there you're not supposed to look at your phone before you go to bed I always just I I like look up ballistics and

01:17:42 Speaker_00
My wife's like, what are you doing? I was like, she's like, that's good. That's not social media. That's good. Well, I do it because I actually get think about stuff and it doesn't matter. I have to look at something that doesn't matter.

01:17:53 Speaker_00
Like if I look at like a good, right. Don't check an email. Right. You're screwed. Right. Like, and I'll tell my wife, she's like, Hey, I got a question for you. It's like, The lights are off don't ask questions right now like I'll be all night.

01:18:05 Speaker_00
I'll be thinking of this problem I have to solve yeah, so like I'll just sit there.

01:18:08 Speaker_00
I'm like hey I wonder what the ballistic coefficient of a 350 Remington Magnum is by the way anybody with a beard like yours I would assume they know the ballistic coefficient of it

01:18:19 Speaker_01
It's like, I see a dude with a beard like that and he's kind of jacked. I'm like, that guy knows how to shoot some things. Probably loads his own bullets.

01:18:28 Speaker_00
Yeah, I'd be about a 9-inch drop at 300. Interesting. Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Yeah, you'd probably load your own rounds. Yeah, well, you know. Pops used to be really really into that.

01:18:39 Speaker_00
Thankfully I know the guys at Nostler so they just sent me Emma which is nice.

01:18:43 Speaker_01
I've made the mistake of looking at social media before I go to bed and I get mad or I get upset or I get sad or I find out some weird shit that's going on in the world.

01:18:52 Speaker_01
And when I was younger, I'd read things that people would say about me and I'd be like, oh my God, like, who's this asshole? That's not true. And you get all upset. And then I realized like, wait, this is just some person.

01:19:03 Speaker_01
Like I wouldn't talk to them in real life. Like what do I get is why is their opinion more valid because it's written down. So then I stopped reading all comments about me and oh my God, it changed everything. Changed everything.

01:19:17 Speaker_01
You do the Post and Ghost, right? Yes, it's the way to go. I have friends and they'll come to me, like they'll come to the comedy club or something and they'll be like genuinely emotionally distraught because people are attacking them online.

01:19:30 Speaker_01
I go, but they're not here. Like right here, your friends are here and you're all freaked out because I know I got to stop reading that stuff. I go, you got to stop reading that stuff. First of all, it's not true. You're really funny. You're a great guy.

01:19:40 Speaker_01
So it's all bullshit and they don't know you. So they're just deciding to do this and they know that it fucks with you because you talk openly about it And so now they're gonna accentuate it. They're gonna yeah, they're gonna keep jabbing at you.

01:19:51 Speaker_01
They got a rock. There's a window You got to stop doing that man And a few guys have listened to me and a few guys haven't and the guys have listened to me They all say the same thing. Oh my god, I feel so much better. I'm like, yeah, I

01:20:04 Speaker_01
Social media is not the problem. The problem is either engaging in the anger and the hate or having reading people's anger and hate towards you and having it fuck your head up like, hey.

01:20:16 Speaker_00
Do you think it's something that's like systemic that is literally spreading and growing? Like the people that put that type of trash out all the time and then they think there's some sort of value to that and then other people see it.

01:20:27 Speaker_01
But there is some value, right? They do get engagement, right? And if you're a person that has a YouTube show where all you do is shit on people, you have bad karma for sure. For sure you're suffering.

01:20:37 Speaker_01
Yeah, but you've got to deal with that the rest of your life, like dealing that poison. Right, but you can make a living doing that. There are guys who make a living doing that. They're all fucked up. I'm not saying there's value in it.

01:20:49 Speaker_01
But I do think you make something out of it. You can create a career doing that. That's part of the problem, is that it's effective.

01:20:56 Speaker_01
Right like the trolls yeah like it doesn't it does get engagement, but then you know that you're what kind of engagement Are you getting look I have people that hate me online, but not the ones who know me right?

01:21:10 Speaker_01
That's what's kind of important Yeah, the people that know me either in real life or through the podcast know I'm a nice person right I I work really hard at it. I try hard to be a nice person. It's a conscious effort. I'm good at it. I like doing it.

01:21:26 Speaker_01
I like nice people. Makes you feel good, right? Makes me feel good. So I don't engage. I don't fire back at people. When people get mad at me, even celebrities have attacked me online. I'm like, eh.

01:21:38 Speaker_00
How's that feel? Probably being in that world a bit more and then now having people turn on you probably feels strange.

01:21:46 Speaker_01
They're just, they're just revealing who they are. They're just weak. They're just weak people.

01:21:51 Speaker_01
They're not the type of person that, if you did that in front of me when you were around me, we could have a conversation about why I feel like you're incorrect. And this assumption that you have of me is totally wrong.

01:22:03 Speaker_01
And also, if you're not talking to someone in person and you're saying something about that person, like, You can just kind of form some bullshit narrative. Of course. The person's right there, they'll go, that's not true.

01:22:18 Speaker_01
So you're saying something, and if it was true, then you'd be justified in your anger. But what you're saying is not true, and you're taking things completely out of context, and you don't know what you're talking about.

01:22:27 Speaker_01
And you're doing this because your life sucks. And it's the only time you do it. I've always said, do you think Michael Jordan is posting on YouTube? Is he making comments? No.

01:22:37 Speaker_01
If YouTube was around when Michael Jordan was the king, would he be doing that? No. He doesn't have time because he's being a winner. Because he's actually winning and doing... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:46 Speaker_01
But I guarantee you if Michael Jordan reads the comments, and if he did read the comments, he'd be up all night. Anger. You know? You saw that... Neil Brennan had a bit about Michael Jordan's documentary on his last Netflix special. It's pretty funny.

01:23:02 Speaker_01
It's like, unless you want to be the greatest basketball player of all time. He goes, don't hold grudges, unless you want to have $150 million worth of passive income every year because it's a fucking silhouette of you dunking. Unless. Unless.

01:23:18 Speaker_01
It's a good unless. But again, those are freaks, right? Yeah. These are the outliers. These are the people like as a rule, as a human being, that's not the way to go.

01:23:26 Speaker_00
Just insatiable desire to like just hammer that nail until it's just so far down in the woods. You're just like, I don't know what you're doing anymore, but yeah. That's how you become the greatest of all time. You leave no question.

01:23:39 Speaker_01
The difference between that in sport versus that in fighting, though, is in fighting, I don't think you can maintain it. Like, a guy like Jordan, how long was he in his prime? It was a decade. At least, yeah.

01:23:51 Speaker_01
For a decade, he was dominating in basketball. You can't really do that in fighting. John Jones is the only one that's been able to do it.

01:23:58 Speaker_00
Do you think it just takes so much aggression, so much edge, so much damage to your body?

01:24:03 Speaker_01
You know the damage to your body is huge because there's so much damage that happens just in training John tore his peck off of his fucking shoulder in training. Yeah, and that wasn't getting hit that was wrestling.

01:24:14 Speaker_01
Yeah Yeah, and then there's the the impacts that you get and then there's the you know the back stuff You know you get thrown weird you land on your back weird you you you're throwing someone a knee hits you weird you know your ribs break all the time and

01:24:30 Speaker_01
Hands break all the time like common gym injuries knee blows out noses Everybody's got a broken nose. I don't know anybody who does any kind of combat sports.

01:24:42 Speaker_01
It hasn't broken their nose So there's like you after a while you can't breathe out of your nose your nose is destroyed your fucking hand hurts when you try to like open your car door and Yeah. And you have to punch people in the head with it.

01:24:54 Speaker_01
Your knee hurts going downstairs. Kamaru Usman, you want to hear something crazy? When he walks, he has to walk backwards downstairs because his knees are so bad. Oh, because he can't get the knee over the toe. His knee hurts so bad.

01:25:08 Speaker_01
And he was a welterweight champion of the world with those knees. And he was talking about it openly. He was like, oh, you know, you can know. You can know my knees are bad. I'm still going to fuck you up. And he did. He fucked everybody up forever.

01:25:18 Speaker_00
It's coming.

01:25:19 Speaker_01
Until Leon Edwards. But his knees are so bad that he would have to walk on the grass where everybody was like walking on the sidewalk. He'd have to go over to walk on the grass to just take a little bit of relief. Extra cushion. Just something.

01:25:32 Speaker_01
Yeah, bone on bone, man. Yeah, bone-on-bone welterweight champion of the world.

01:25:36 Speaker_00
Well, it looks like the operators, like, you know, guys are jumping out of. Oh, yeah. Like, all of them are jacked up. All of them. And everyone in the strength world, everyone's low back, everyone's shoulder, everyone's knee.

01:25:45 Speaker_01
Everyone in jujitsu. Everyone's got a back problem. Everyone's got a neck problem. It's just part of it. Everyone blows a knee out. It's part of it. Yeah. And if, you know, Eddie always used to say, look, you're going to have to get surgery eventually.

01:25:56 Speaker_01
You're going to have to get surgery. Just get the surgery, heal up, come back.

01:25:59 Speaker_01
Yeah, we rebuilding this engine and keep erasing or is this like doing the least as you can to not get surgery my second surgery I went to this doctor and when I had a bucket handle meniscus tear so it would lock you ever have one of those where it locks out it was fucking brutal and He was like you've got to stop doing martial arts.

01:26:18 Speaker_01
I go shut the fuck up. I go You'll fix this He's like when you're older. I'm like yeah when I'm older well right now. I'm 30 years old fix my fucking knee I gotta go strangle people. What are you talking about?

01:26:31 Speaker_00
Yeah?

01:26:31 Speaker_01
What the fuck are you talking about stop doing this?

01:26:33 Speaker_00
I'm not gonna stop doing this same thing I was 22 when I had that and I had an Olympic trial in two years. I was like fun I was like see I know like no think and I before I went under I was like I've squatted this much and I do this and

01:26:45 Speaker_00
When I come out of it, I expect to be back there. So fix it like that. Don't fix it like I'm an old guy taking it easy and like, I'm young. I got shit to do.

01:26:53 Speaker_01
Do they fix it differently depending on who you are? I don't know. I just felt better about saying it. I tell you what, they got a lot better.

01:27:02 Speaker_00
I would assume they would actually fix you. Maybe they wouldn't fix normal people.

01:27:05 Speaker_01
Well, I tell everybody, if you have an opportunity to get an ACL reconstruction, please, at least try the cadaver graft. I know a lot of people want to do that patella tendon graft because you don't have the risk of rejection.

01:27:19 Speaker_01
I don't know anybody who's had a rejection from the cadaver. I do know people who have pushed it too hard, too early, and then re-blown it. Because you know how it works?

01:27:29 Speaker_00
Do you know what happens?

01:27:30 Speaker_01
I'm not familiar. It's really kind of interesting. You get this. So my right knee, when I blew my ACL out, they take a cadaver, like I have a dead dude's Achilles tendon, which is much thicker. I don't know his name. Who was it? God, like Francis Egano.

01:27:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, you're like, oh, there's some stud. Just fucking animal. Just giant Viking dude. So it's thicker. It's 150% stronger than a real ACL. And so they screw that in place. And then it's not like you have this dead guy's thing in there forever.

01:28:02 Speaker_01
What happens is your body re-proliferates that. It acts as a scaffolding. So it can feel like it's secure, but it's really vulnerable. So you have to be super careful. up until like that six month mark, when it should be re-proliferated.

01:28:16 Speaker_00
And so does the foreign tissue eventually just kind of get reabsorbed, which is kind of weird?

01:28:22 Speaker_01
Exactly. You eat that dead guy's Achilles with your knee.

01:28:27 Speaker_00
My knee is just munching these dead dude Achilles.

01:28:28 Speaker_01
But man, I've had no problems with this knee.

01:28:30 Speaker_00
That's awesome.

01:28:30 Speaker_01
This right knee is amazing. The left knee, I had a patella tendon graft, because I had that one done in 93 or 94. And that one, back then, that's the only way they did it. But it was really good. But it took a long time to heal.

01:28:46 Speaker_01
It was a long time before I could kneel down on the ground. Like if I had to kneel down and put my knees on the ground.

01:28:52 Speaker_01
Because they take a piece of bone out of your shin, and they take a piece of bone out of your kneecap, and then they take a slice out of your patella tendon, and they pull it off, and they open you up like a fish, and they fucking drill it into your shin bone and drill it into your fibula.

01:29:06 Speaker_01
Love that. Your tibia and your femur, rather. Yeah. And it's like... Wrap it over. They get it in there, and then it's like a year before it feels like you could do anything with it.

01:29:16 Speaker_01
It took a while before I felt like I really trusted it, but I do have to say I was not as diligent with my rehabilitation back then as I was when I got this one done. With this one, I rehabbed it all myself. I went to like one or two of these things.

01:29:32 Speaker_01
I'm like, they're just showing me things I already know how to do. I'm like, I know what to do. I'm just gonna do this, I'm gonna do it all day. So I was doing body weight squats like all day long.

01:29:38 Speaker_01
And I got it to six months later, I was training again, full blast, no problems.

01:29:43 Speaker_00
Were you doing any, like, the BPCs or any of the peptides?

01:29:45 Speaker_01
There was nothing available back then. Oh, well, back then. So this was 2003 that I got this one done. Nice.

01:29:51 Speaker_00
And this was the cadaver, rather. How do you think the recovery would have worked for us? like with all these dings and injuries. I'm sure you probably have too.

01:30:01 Speaker_00
A couple of friends that got surgery, actually the doctor hit them, side injection, and even IV with BPC-157 during the reattachment of a pec or a bicep.

01:30:11 Speaker_01
Super legit. It's super legit along with TB-500. Apparently that combination of those two together is the most effective. super effective and You know, there's a lot of people that resist that for some strange reason.

01:30:26 Speaker_01
I don't know I think I think there's a bit of ego involved in not knowing something when you're an expert I find that with there's a real problem with unfortunately some orthopedic surgeons Aaron Rogers was explaining this to me that his doctors were telling him not to do stem cells after he got his Achilles fixed and

01:30:48 Speaker_01
He's like, what are you talking about? Shut the fuck up. And so of course he did stem cells, and of course he went to ways to well, and of course he was back three months earlier than they thought he could ever be.

01:30:59 Speaker_01
And there was some real thought at the end of that season that he was probably going to be able to play, where everybody's like, this is nuts. Nobody recovers from this that fast.

01:31:08 Speaker_01
But he was very smart, and he didn't push it too far, and he waited until it was fully.

01:31:12 Speaker_00
And yeah all this stuff, but yes stem cells work There's a reason why you have to go down to Tijuana to get the good ones because it's they fucking work and like anything that works It's like yeah, you're not allowed to do it anymore Biden He really did I was talking to a strength conditioning professional the other day at the administrative level we were just talking about different things going I said yes and

01:31:37 Speaker_00
I said, there's people, in my opinion, in your world that don't know about BPC 157. He didn't know about BPC, and I'm just like. Crazy. And I'm like, OK, I was taken eight years ago. But you know what it is, though?

01:31:50 Speaker_01
It's like they don't continue to learn.

01:31:52 Speaker_00
That was my point.

01:31:53 Speaker_01
They get their degree, and then they're in practice all day. They're constantly working on people. People are coming in the door. This guy blew his ankle out. This guy's got a fucking blown shoulder.

01:32:01 Speaker_00
Yeah. And I said, the weird part is you have a strength conditioning professional.

01:32:06 Speaker_00
And and in some ways there's more information cutting-edge on a podcast from guys that are interested in training right from like the You know and I'm just like hey guys just open this the scope a little bit like well There's enough of these guys listen that are super smart and also jacked like these Andrew Juberman guys Yeah, and and and super smart guys that are in the bodybuilding

01:32:30 Speaker_01
world super smart guys like like Derek from more plates more yeah he's the best example because he's just a fucking encyclopedia of data and studies and efficacy and what you're how you combine things together and he actually runs a clinic so he really knows what you get the boots on the ground you see in real time yeah this my doc is Eric Serrano I don't know if you know Doc Serrano he's up in in Columbus but

01:32:56 Speaker_00
You know, everyone has gone to him over the last 30 years, but he's one of those dudes that has like a basement gym. Columbus, Ohio? Columbus, Ohio, yeah. Oh, that's where Louie was. Exactly. He was Louie's doctor. So yeah, he was Louie's.

01:33:07 Speaker_00
He was, you know, you go through all professional baseball, it's like, okay, got it, tracking. He's one of the rare guys that we went to him to do a podcast. How was that?

01:33:16 Speaker_01
I was off.

01:33:17 Speaker_00
Did you go to Bob Evans with him?

01:33:18 Speaker_01
No, we just we we hung out in his gym. Yeah, you know and he he just was Introduced me to a bunch of freaks and show me all the stuff that he invented and why invented it so cool Louis Simmons He was the fucking man. He was so funny

01:33:32 Speaker_01
He was so funny, he was such a character. He was telling me about how he got his shoulder blown, got his shoulder replaced, and then immediately when he got back to the gym, they made him max out and bench. And I was like, what are you talking about?

01:33:43 Speaker_01
You need to recover. They were like, don't be a pussy. You have to max out.

01:33:47 Speaker_00
I was there in 2002, and so Louie and his wife Doris, and you always meet the Bob Evans in the morning, and he would eat and do the whole deal.

01:33:56 Speaker_00
And he was telling me a story about how he got pissed off and he put something in his cell phone and he threw it out the window while he was driving. And then so he didn't have a cell phone for a couple weeks.

01:34:08 Speaker_00
And then he got to the gym and he missed a lift and he punched his own tooth out, punched himself so hard he knocked his own tooth out and then took a wire brush that you like clean the chalk out of a barbell and smashed himself on the head.

01:34:21 Speaker_00
He was just pouring his wife was like, yeah Lou was pouring blood and he knocked the tooth out and I'm just thinking Westside was awesome Holy crap, so I got talking to him and he was like no biceps.

01:34:31 Speaker_00
Yeah, right cuz he blew him out I just never got it fixed. Yeah. Yeah a lot of those guys same Yeah, it's wild but he was like, yeah those cats would they'd fight and he goes we would literally like is there some some tuned-up dudes

01:34:45 Speaker_00
And he said that we would just literally kick them out the door if they were fighting on the floor we would kick them out of the way so they're out of the way of the monolith so we could keep squatting like Every 30 seconds you're up or 90 seconds, whatever.

01:34:55 Speaker_00
It's like I don't care if you're fighting literally hitting each other with stuff move the next guy up Like this place is wild.

01:35:04 Speaker_00
They created some fucking here's a wild story So we were there and this this drunk chick came in she was like because this was the old west side It was like in this little

01:35:14 Speaker_00
Shopping center with all the windows were all blacked out and everything was pretty dope and this drunk chick walked And she's like hi y'all working out here, and she was tuned man Like all sloppy like legit street person right and I'm like oh, this is gonna.

01:35:30 Speaker_00
Go bad like I'm just I'm just reading the room right like I It was not a lot of estrogen in that room, right? So I'm like, oh man, this is gonna be bad. Louie's like, hey, hey, come here, come here, come here.

01:35:43 Speaker_00
So he puts a weight vest on her and then puts a second weight vest, so 25, 25, it's a 50 pound weight vest and takes her outside, wraps a belt around her waist with a sled and had her walking, doing sled pulls back and forth with a weight, 50 pounds of weight vest on her shoulders.

01:36:00 Speaker_00
Drunk. Drunk as shit. And I'm just like, I'm just like watching. I'm like, what? She comes back in. He's like, all right, come over here. He puts her on the monolith, two red bands. It was maybe just the bar. Wasn't a lot of weight on that.

01:36:15 Speaker_00
And had her doing speed box squats, eight sets of two for speed. It was teaching her how to box squat. She finally stumbles out and just leaves. And like later on, I'm like, Lou, did you know that girl? He goes, no. I'm like,

01:36:29 Speaker_00
She was just some random street person and you had her squatting. He goes shit half the people in this room were that person a year ago I'm like, oh, yes, she could be world champion.

01:36:38 Speaker_00
You know, I don't know Wow, I was just like that would that that's a crazy mentality that stuck with me for so long.

01:36:45 Speaker_00
He's like Most of these people are broken and they have some addictive thing and something and he goes if they could channel it into something that might be the next world champion and

01:36:57 Speaker_00
And I don't know if you ever saw her again, or if I was just there that one day, and it stuck with me for, shoot, 22 years. And I just thought about that. I'm like, he put his money where his mouth was.

01:37:08 Speaker_00
He was a coach, and he wanted to see what could someone do.

01:37:13 Speaker_01
You know, that's so interesting because one of the guys who trained with Louie was Matt the Immortal Brown. Matt the Immortal Brown.

01:37:20 Speaker_01
I know he did some training with him and I've always said that there's something about guys that used to be addicts that have like died and Matt died and it's been a few guys I know that came back from that.

01:37:31 Speaker_01
They were the scariest fucking people because they had crossed over and then they realized there's a good addiction. The good addiction is to training. Just be completely addicted to training.

01:37:43 Speaker_00
So those are some of the fucking scariest dudes.

01:37:45 Speaker_00
It was wild I mean, I know I knew a lot of those guys from that world and a lot of them are Addicted to different stuff and unfortunately they get into training and then if they get out of it It kind of that addiction might come back that happens with fighters.

01:37:59 Speaker_01
Yeah when they retire and then also they're Generally dealing with some issues mentally. Yeah impacts, you know, a lot of those guys start drinking. I started doing coke

01:38:09 Speaker_00
I always loved how Louie just saw it differently and my dad was the same way like he used to always say Look for something not of what it is, but what it can be Yeah, and and that would that meant human potential that meant designs that meant like application of stuff and it's just like yeah that person's Whatever, but if you push and you tweak and you push and you tweak there might be something in there It's like super beautiful and awesome, but you never know if you just said that's a drunk chick that walked in the gym

01:38:33 Speaker_01
Well, it's crazy with him because he's actually done it a bunch of times and it worked, right? Weird. So this attitude he's developed over time to just accept the fact that this person might come in 16 Coors Lights deep.

01:38:45 Speaker_00
Dude. Just tuned. Just tuned. You never know. A buddy of mine, he trained at Westside and he said, I mean, half the time, he said there's, he's like, I've seen guys bench 700 pounds like on acid. Like just.

01:39:01 Speaker_00
freaked out of their mind like wild stuff and I'm like holy cow like that whole world's wild yeah like you had an old I mean that's a whole world like it's so extreme right the fighting world the lifting the throwing like dudes who do some pretty wild stuff yeah well and whenever you get like

01:39:18 Speaker_01
these male-oriented alpha characters that all get together and they're all butting heads and trying to figure out who's the baddest motherfucker around them.

01:39:28 Speaker_01
They also develop a culture of acceptance of certain aspects of life that come with the injuries and pain and suffering. You know, like wrestlers, they brag on suffering the most. They want to suffer more than anybody. That's the badge of honor.

01:39:45 Speaker_01
What time do you get up? I was on my 14th mile at 4.30. Yeah, just drag you into deep water. Let's make it worse. That's the part of the culture of wrestling is embracing the grind. That's the whole thing.

01:39:57 Speaker_01
It's like being the guy who can push, being that Cam Haines motherfucker that does those 340 mile runs.

01:40:04 Speaker_00
Because I think I've read before is this accurate that the highest winning percentage in the UFC were all From the wrestling background. Is that accurate?

01:40:12 Speaker_01
I'd probably say that's probably accurate I think if you had to see if you had to say like what's the back? I've always said that's the foundation of martial arts because the wrestler can decide where the fight takes place a wrestler

01:40:26 Speaker_01
Generally mentally they're gonna be tougher because they went through the hardest thing when they were a child The hardest thing is a child is wrestling.

01:40:33 Speaker_01
You're starving yourself when you're growing You know, you're dehydrating yourself before matches you're training and competing dehydrated. You're in a fucking hot room, you know Clashing with other alpha males and you're throwing each other around.

01:40:49 Speaker_01
It's the hardest thing staff infections every once in a while

01:40:53 Speaker_01
But that skill is so important the skill to be able to manipulate bodies and take them down And if you could teach a wrestler jiu-jitsu, oh my god, they're so much better at it because they're just so accustomed It's just they just have to learn a new series of movements to go with this skill set, right?

01:41:09 Speaker_00
They already but they they're great at controlling body and just the proximity like yeah people aren't good with being all up in people and they're like, yeah, I live here and

01:41:16 Speaker_01
They live there and then the other thing is if you could teach a wrestler how to strike they have such an advantage Because you can't take them down and you're worried about them taking you down.

01:41:26 Speaker_01
So that opens you up to certain shots It happens all the time where guys are worried about a takedown and they get blasted Because there's they're thinking this guy could take me down at any moment and then you get hit

01:41:37 Speaker_01
Happens all it's like another element that they put in that you have to you have to deal with that They don't have to deal with they're not worried about you taking them down You're not even gonna try so they don't they can be completely relaxed with their takedown defense.

01:41:49 Speaker_00
So then they yes horrible Elite wrestlers fucking horrible. I've even seen like elite wrestlers even in business and stuff like that You could always it always feels like they're trying to shoot in on you, right?

01:42:01 Speaker_00
You're looking for the weakness, trying to shoot it. You're like, ah, this is just kind of in you, huh?

01:42:06 Speaker_01
Well, they also know that they can. You're walking around knowing that you can pick up any guy you want and dump him on his head. And most likely, they have no say in it. There's nothing they can do. You don't get a vote. Yeah, man.

01:42:18 Speaker_01
If you're around a judo black belt and you're wearing a winter coat, you might as well have a hammer right above your head. Because that guy's just going to use that coat and slam you into the concrete. You're basically helpless. Yeah.

01:42:32 Speaker_01
If you don't know judo and you tangle up with like a real judo black belt, you're going to fly through the air and you're going to land on the ground with all of his weight and your weight on top of you.

01:42:43 Speaker_01
And even if you don't bang your head, your whole body is going to be out of air. You're not going to, you don't know how to land. You're going to land. Especially when a guy's controlling the smash.

01:42:52 Speaker_01
Oh, and he's going to shoulder right into you as he lands.

01:42:56 Speaker_00
You fucked yeah, so that guy's gonna look at every person like meat yeah, yeah Yeah, I I never realized how effective a geachoke was until hoist geachoke to me It was my first ever. I was like yeah, I'll try jiu-jitsu mmm.

01:43:12 Speaker_00
He did like a clinic He's like come on up for this thing and my buddy is on me trying to do the thing and then I thought Hoist put me in like the member the old thing with like the paper cutters.

01:43:19 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah, pretty sure that was what he has it for a forearm Way different. My big buddy that's my size, hoist is way different than that. It's leverage and technique. Holy cow. It's tying that shoe. He's choked people so many times.

01:43:34 Speaker_00
It was like his armor made with scissors. It was just like, this is amazing. It's so cool to see perfection, right?

01:43:40 Speaker_01
Yeah, well, that's the other thing about coats and jackets or even a hoodie. You could choke someone so easy with a hoodie.

01:43:46 Speaker_00
Really?

01:43:46 Speaker_01
Just get your thumbs in deep and squeeze it like that. Yeah, you could choke the shit out of somebody if you grab somebody with a hoodie and just drew them in, especially like, I said, a leather coat, like a leather coat or a winter coat.

01:43:58 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah, because it doesn't stretch. Yeah, you get a good grip. You got top and bottom Jay Leno you're in trouble that jean shirt That thing's durable, you know You want some shit that tears easy like you want a shirt that already has cuts in it.

01:44:19 Speaker_01
You're pretty loaded Make some cuts Because someone can just grab your t-shirt. There's actually a Gracie self-defense thing that was on that I was looking at the other day.

01:44:34 Speaker_01
It was a really smart move where this woman was showing that you can grab a hold of someone's t-shirt if you're a woman and you're getting attacked by a man. Just grabbing a hold of their t-shirt and then getting your legs around their neck. No way.

01:44:48 Speaker_01
You're jamming your carotid artery, their carotid arteries with your thumb while you're holding a t-shirt and squeezing with your legs. You can put a guy out. Especially a guy that doesn't know what's happening and doesn't know how to protect himself.

01:45:00 Speaker_01
I don't know how to do that.

01:45:02 Speaker_00
That's not it.

01:45:03 Speaker_01
But it was, she was on her back. It was on YouTube.

01:45:08 Speaker_00
I tried to move like that one time. I was goofing around with my buddy. We call him the cyborg. He's an absolute just monster of a human.

01:45:15 Speaker_00
And he and I were goofing around, and I was on my back, and so I kind of got him the little, like a leg scissors on his head, and I grabbed his arm, and I'm like, I'm gonna pull his arm off. I'm a big, strong deadlifter.

01:45:26 Speaker_00
I'm like, I got him, I finally got him. He was 290, 6'2", 290, all out. He looked like Gordon, but bigger and stronger. And he literally just, I thought he was going out, and he kind of went, and woke up.

01:45:39 Speaker_00
And he picked me up while I was hanging, and then just slammed me down on the ground. I'm like, man, screw this. People could do that to people? Like, no. No one could stand up with a person hanging off them and slam them back on the ground.

01:45:51 Speaker_00
I didn't know that. I just got clobbered.

01:45:54 Speaker_01
You want to see the worst version of that ever? Rampage Jackson vs. Ricardo Arona. Did you ever see that in Pride? It's the worst case scenario of holding on to like a triangle while a guy picks you up. And Rampage in his prime was a fucking machine.

01:46:12 Speaker_01
He was so powerful. So he takes this dude who's 200 plus pounds, hoists him over his head and slams him down like a pillow. So look at this. So he's caught in the triangle. Watch how Rampage does this.

01:46:26 Speaker_01
Bro, that was one of the worst KOs in the history of the sport. I mean, that dude definitely could have died. He probably got the worst trauma, the worst brain trauma. Did he knee himself in the face too? I think Rampage collided heads with him as well.

01:46:42 Speaker_01
So it was probably a bunch of shit hitting him.

01:46:43 Speaker_00
Yeah, like all kinds. I think right there is squashed his guts. Yeah, hit his shoulder.

01:46:49 Speaker_01
But Rampage's head went into his. This is a crazy slam, man. Look at that, ba-boom.

01:46:56 Speaker_00
Mine was not nearly as devastating, but it was enough to maybe not want to do that again. That was the worst, and this guy was never the same again.

01:47:03 Speaker_01
Ricardo Arona was never the same again. That is such a crazy, so that all could have been avoided. Like, that's not what you do. When you have a triangle, if you see a guy posturing up, you immediately go under.

01:47:16 Speaker_00
Oh, okay, come loxy, man.

01:47:17 Speaker_01
If he's got you in the air, you let go of the fucking triangle. The thing that's holding him in there was him. He's holding himself in there.

01:47:24 Speaker_00
Yeah, so he was the pivot point.

01:47:25 Speaker_01
Because sometimes you can keep it, right? Sometimes you can keep a triangle, and you get slammed, and it just makes the triangle tighter. But you've got to know when you're way up in the air. You've got to let go. Yeah.

01:47:38 Speaker_01
You've got to fully let go, and then try to sprawl. Something has to happen. You have to disrupt this motion, this thing that's happening.

01:47:46 Speaker_00
Yeah, turning yourself into an axe.

01:47:47 Speaker_01
And the best way is an underhook.

01:47:49 Speaker_01
Like as soon as you feel like he starts to stand up, you hook the leg, and worst case scenario, you transition to a leg bar, you let go of the triangle, you get control of that leg, and you use that leg either to try to submit him or sweep him.

01:48:02 Speaker_01
But you can never hold onto a triangle if the guy's standing up. It's just, look at that fucking concrete.

01:48:07 Speaker_00
You're done. You're dead. You're done. Your head is pulverized. Yeah. It was bad enough on turf, but I won't do that again.

01:48:13 Speaker_01
And that was like, you know, there's a little bit of springiness to the ground because it's in a ring.

01:48:18 Speaker_01
Still and there's probably a certain amount of padding on the surface How hard are those rings and I've walked around in them as they there's a little bit like the UFC has a small amount of foam Yeah, like a padding and it's very important really because you know guys heads bounce off and they get head kicked They fall down their heads bounce off to get hit with a big right hand or something you you bounce your head So you can't have a real hard floor?

01:48:44 Speaker_04
Yeah

01:48:45 Speaker_01
But it's not soft enough where you want, you know, John Jones power slamming you know, not really any day No days, actually That's crazy. Yeah, it's a I mean to be one of those people that you make a living doing that That is a wild way to go.

01:49:01 Speaker_00
Yeah What happened where that decided that that was the direction they were going to go? You're like, you know what? I'm going to get the crap beat out of me and dole out a lot of pain and see how this shakes out.

01:49:13 Speaker_00
Or do you just kind of like wake up one day and you're in that world? You're like, I'm pretty good.

01:49:16 Speaker_01
Well, you're probably a wild person to begin with. And you're probably excited by dangerous, scary things. And you're probably pretty good at it, which is why you're fighting professionally.

01:49:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, you know so you probably Trained in the gym, and you realize you're better than most people Maybe a few amateur fights and fuck a few people up and go you know I think I'm the fucking man start believing.

01:49:35 Speaker_01
You know yeah, and some of them are right. Yeah Every now and then a guy is correct like that's the way you should have went yeah, yeah definitely fucking everybody up Yeah, everybody belly.

01:49:49 Speaker_00
It's okay. You were talking about first so Tyson.

01:49:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's that's my heavyweight. That's my heavyweight all-timer.

01:49:58 Speaker_00
John Jones for UFC?

01:49:59 Speaker_01
He's the guy that's like, I feel like Tyson in his prime, you have to have him on the Mount Rushmore. You want to have Jack Dempsey, you want to have Joe Frazier, you want, I mean, it's like a lot of guys who are really good.

01:50:12 Speaker_01
It's hard to say, like Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano. There's a lot of like, for me, the one that you can't remove is Tyson. Right.

01:50:21 Speaker_01
So there's a bunch of other ones Lennox Lewis in his prime was fucking amazing Larry Holmes doesn't get the credit he deserves in his prime There's a lot of guys who are really good heavyweight champions, but you have to have Tyson everything else is negotiable Tyson has to be there in my in my mind.

01:50:35 Speaker_00
Yeah, you know different people disagree Do you watch other sports besides fighting sports or combat sports?

01:50:40 Speaker_01
I watch a little football. Yeah, I've been watching football lately. I enjoy it. It's fun. Pro or college? I watch high school. Yeah, right? I watch college and I watch pro. I went to an NFL game first time this year. Kind of cool. It was fun.

01:50:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, I saw the Jets play the Cowboys down in Dallas. That was wild. It's wild when you see the scale of it, you know, the scale of it, the size of the arenas. You've been to any college games before? A few, a few UT games. Oh, you were at UT, right?

01:51:05 Speaker_01
Yeah, that was fun. I got to shoot the cannon at UT.

01:51:07 Speaker_00
Oh, nice. That was fun. Isn't it crazy? Have you been keeping up with the NIL and all the transfer portals and how that's changed the landscape? I have not. What is that? What are you saying? NIL is name, image, and likeness.

01:51:21 Speaker_01
Oh, that. Right. The money thing.

01:51:23 Speaker_00
Yeah, the money thing is crazy.

01:51:25 Speaker_01
Well, they should have been paying those fucking kids a long-ass time ago. They should retroactively pay all those kids. That would be interesting. They should. They should. They were making money off of them.

01:51:33 Speaker_00
It's crazy how much money they make. The amount of money that this happening now It's interesting because like it actually from a couple of my friends that are in that world.

01:51:41 Speaker_00
It creates a different Conversation with the new kids because let's say in high school there, you know They they're bringing in these recruits and everything like that and everyone that's kissing their butt.

01:51:50 Speaker_00
Hey, man They're like, hey, we really want you to be here. We want you to be a whatever pay me, bitch And now it's turning into pay me. Yeah, and but then the other side of that I want a Corvette That's dude.

01:52:01 Speaker_00
I have friends that tell me that there are there are athletes who when they're coming for a recruiting trip Say if there's not a quarter million dollar sound signing bonus as just a part of the deal I'm not getting on the plane for the recruiting trip An 18 or 17 year old kid saying that that's balls.

01:52:17 Speaker_00
I mean while they're right you know who else should be doing that the fucking Olympics and

01:52:22 Speaker_01
Fuckin Olympics, they should all say fuck you pay me. They really should that's the greatest scam in all of Yeah, everyone.

01:52:30 Speaker_01
Well now they can now I'm an Olympic committee, but originally it was Amateur well, they can mean while like what you mean is like the NBA players can represent United States and play in the Olympics That's that's cute. But what about the swimmers?

01:52:44 Speaker_01
What about the people? What about the gymnasts? What about the boxers those fucking all those people should get paid? Yeah

01:52:50 Speaker_00
Every single one of them. And no one really cares about Olympic athletes, but every four years. A buddy of mine won the 2004 shot put Olympics. And he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money.

01:53:03 Speaker_00
He's like, because no one cares about the Olympics, but every four years. And you're like, you have a degree at Dartmouth, a business degree, and you're the Olympic champion. And he was the first athlete to ever eBay himself.

01:53:18 Speaker_00
So he had a shirt that says, this space for rent. And so he would put himself on the market. It was kind of like the first NL. It's like, hey, man, I have to make money throwing this steel ball. And I'm 30-something years old. I'm a world champion.

01:53:31 Speaker_00
And I still have to ask for money every four years, or for three.

01:53:35 Speaker_01
They used to do that with the UFC. You used to be able to have sponsors.

01:53:38 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:53:40 Speaker_01
Anything you want, like Condom Depot on your shorts.

01:53:44 Speaker_00
How about those old days of Tank Abbott and all this guy? I used to love watching all that. When I was in college, we'd get a pay-per-view and check it out.

01:53:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, man, that's the the dark days the early days those are no one knew what was going on No one really knew what was effective.

01:53:59 Speaker_00
You saw some people were effective one way you thought that's the way to go I'm like, yeah It was kind of like when you're in high school you when you would go sneak out of the house and go watch faces of death Oh, yeah, and it was like wow, this is like it's a cool thing It's like the UFC like kids will never understand how difficult it was to see fucked up things.

01:54:13 Speaker_01
We were young and It was hard. Really hard. You had to try hard. You had to, like, know somebody.

01:54:18 Speaker_00
You had to know older kids.

01:54:19 Speaker_01
That guy had to know somebody in the city. Someone in some dark warehouse that had a copy of some barnyard Betty video.

01:54:25 Speaker_00
It's always weird. Yeah, I know. It's just like, yeah, you rode your bike all around and you, like, find some weird wood pile.

01:54:31 Speaker_01
I remember when we were kids, someone had a video, I think it was like a barnyard Betty type video, like when them ladies have sex with a bunch of animals. Oh yeah, I've seen that. And one of us had to watch the door.

01:54:43 Speaker_01
So if we had a video like that and we're playing in the basement, one of us had to go up to the top of the staircase and wait by the door so that no one could just open the door.

01:54:54 Speaker_01
So if they opened the door, you would pretend like, oh, I was just coming through the door. You know, so like you hold it out of the door so they can't get in. Like, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry.

01:55:03 Speaker_01
And then the kids downstairs would hear that and they'd pop the tape out and pretend they were, you know, playing Atari or some shit. Atari.

01:55:12 Speaker_01
Pop that fucking tape out quick because if mom caught you down there watching a chick blow a German Shepherd Yeah, that didn't happen and they were like real grainy like copies of copies You know, they're like two guys get together with two VCRs.

01:55:25 Speaker_01
They record.

01:55:26 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah.

01:55:26 Speaker_01
Well the weird you have to get that Yeah, you had the cables in the back.

01:55:29 Speaker_00
So is that was that you live in the city growing up?

01:55:32 Speaker_01
I lived in the suburbs. I lived in Newton Newton It's a suburb, Massachusetts. Okay, Boston. Yeah, I Did you live in New Jersey at one point? Yeah, that's where I was born. Yeah, so is my dad. What part? Hillside.

01:55:44 Speaker_01
Have you seen all these UFOs in New Jersey lately? No. Yeah, like over the last few days, there's been this steady stream. They're not UFOs, they're drones.

01:55:54 Speaker_00
Oh, I did see something. I think you posted something about the drones or something, right? I don't think I did. Somebody did.

01:55:59 Speaker_01
But a lot of people have been. But they're not moving in any extraordinary way. They look like drones. They do. It just looks like a bunch of assholes thinks it's fun to put drones up everywhere.

01:56:10 Speaker_01
But now there's all this weird mythology attached to it, where the governor was saying sometimes as soon as you put eyes on them, they take off.

01:56:18 Speaker_01
But if I was a UFO, though, like if I was an alien and I knew that a bunch of people are trying to be smart asses and they're putting these drones in the sky, it'd be a perfect time to visit. These dipshits won't know the difference.

01:56:30 Speaker_01
I don't have to use my cloaking technology. I could just fly over their head and they're going to assume this is more nonsense.

01:56:37 Speaker_00
Dude, one of my buddies, he had a friend that sent him a video of some weird stuff going on in the desert, whatever. And it went through, and then he showed it to me, and then it just disappeared.

01:56:54 Speaker_00
And he was like, the dude he was talking to said it disappeared, but then like, can you have a file that kind of self-destructs? Because it disappeared on his phone too. He's like, how do they take this off of my phone? I don't know.

01:57:10 Speaker_01
I mean, I've never heard of a foxy Jamie Have you ever heard of a video file that self-destructs or that someone's like some so we could make it impossible Yeah, so one could chirp into it and like it was wild like he was I mean that like this this recording were destroyed Yeah, exactly in 30 seconds.

01:57:26 Speaker_00
Yeah, that was Wow. I mean, I wondered though like could they somehow Backtrack it where had been shared.

01:57:34 Speaker_01
Well, that would be problematic because then they would have access to things on your phone I think I doubt that's ever a case more likely would be they put like a time That someone could watch the video into the video where it's valid.

01:57:47 Speaker_01
It's probably still fixable if someone still has it well this dude took the video and

01:57:52 Speaker_00
And did it on his phone? And did it on his phone and shared it. And then he said one day he just looked into it, looked in his phone, it was gone. He might be retarded. Well, that could be the case. But my buddy's like, it's off my phone too.

01:58:08 Speaker_01
It's hard to say it might be real though I've never heard of that happening though Which I would assume that I would have heard of something like that Especially the amount of people that I talked to that are in the UFO world Excuse me a thread on reddit about a glitch in iOS 17 that might have made some people's videos randomly disappear

01:58:26 Speaker_01
Mmm important ones that they wanted right and then they think it's the UFOs that medicine.

01:58:31 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah, this doesn't say anything about that This is just like why is this happening? It's happened anybody else.

01:58:35 Speaker_01
Okay, Google this is it possible to make a self-destructing video That only has a certain amount of plays in it. Well, that'd be cool. I

01:58:48 Speaker_01
Right, like maybe you could code it into the video that yeah, once this video plays for you know, whatever 14 minutes 14 minutes of play it automatically 17 codes Yeah, you know randomizes.

01:59:01 Speaker_01
It's it's Pat because it's basically just information, right?

01:59:05 Speaker_01
Right information viewed through a codec does have like a site like a cyclical rate like this many times like because I know there's certain things like Someone will send you something on Instagram and you can watch the video, but then you can't go back and watch it again

01:59:18 Speaker_00
Right yeah, or they send you a voice message, and then it just goes away.

01:59:23 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's how Alex Jones likes to roll He sends me voice messages, and they go away. That's probably a really good idea for him Yeah, smart move best not to have a paper trail. I don't even know like how much of that encrypted messaging stuff works

01:59:38 Speaker_01
You know, I know when Tucker was saying that he was organizing that meeting with Putin in Russia, and that the government called him up because they knew that he was meeting Putin, because they had access to his signal. And he's like, what?

01:59:52 Speaker_01
You have access? I didn't know even know someone could get into my signal. I thought that was encrypted. Nope, nope, they can get in there. So it's like how much of this stuff is really

02:00:02 Speaker_01
How much of it is really encrypted and protected and how much would they even let you know if they can break it? Why would they even tell you? Well, that's the whole point It's like it's exactly what you would say that you couldn't do it. Exactly.

02:00:14 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's but that was they they fucking spilled the beans Right. So once they spilled the beans, like I know a lot of people, including Elon Musk, started questioning Signal. Sure.

02:00:23 Speaker_01
So I talked to someone in the government and I said, what can you handle Signal? Like how does someone is as long as the state actor knows the phone number was the answer. So all they have to do is know your phone number.

02:00:39 Speaker_01
So if they know your phone number and you have signal... Game over, boys. If you're, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's probably, they probably need to ask somebody if they can do it. It's probably not something they can just do.

02:00:47 Speaker_01
Well... But if an agent is like, Burt Soren's acting a little fucking fishy. Let's see what he's signaling to his friends.

02:00:54 Speaker_00
Yeah, and the opportunity to just decide subjectively if that's the thing.

02:01:00 Speaker_01
And then whatever you carry in your notes and whatever is in your folders or your photos. They're going to all kinds of ballistics. For sure. They've got all this weird crap. It's like there's no way around that anymore.

02:01:19 Speaker_01
I think that's that's a myth the idea that somehow or another you could have Some sort of a protection from that happening today. Yeah, are you making phone calls? You are? Okay. Are you on a network? Are you on Wi-Fi? Are you like I think you're fucked. I

02:01:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, you would have to think so.

02:01:37 Speaker_00
I mean, you'd have to think there's enough back doors and alleged probable causes or however someone wants to spin it.

02:01:45 Speaker_01
Well, that's also how they got Huawei banned from the United States. Because I remember, you know, I'm a bit of a phone nerd. And back in the day, Huawei had the best phones.

02:01:57 Speaker_01
Their phones were like way more advanced than some of the American Android phones that were coming out. Yeah, man.

02:02:03 Speaker_01
Incredible cameras and like big battery life and like crazy zoom Possibilities and I was looking to get this new Huawei phone sure and then while we got banned from the United States And I was like what goes back to anything that's banned man makes you really start questioning

02:02:20 Speaker_01
It does, but when they kind of all agree, there was very little pushback that there was real security problems with these phones, and not just phones, but network devices, routers, different components that had third-party entrants.

02:02:40 Speaker_01
So, it was, they had the capability of accessing information that's being transferred back and forth on a network through these routers. And then, I think people are like, hey, why is that in there?

02:02:53 Speaker_01
And then they realize, oh, the Chinese government is in complete cahoots with Huawei. Like, if you own a company like Huawei, you're down with the government. You have to be. That's how you stay in business.

02:03:03 Speaker_01
You can't be some rebel out there operating on your own, making billions of dollars, creating

02:03:10 Speaker_00
You know, yeah. Well you had Mike Bent was it Ben's um, that was a wonderful podcast, right? Holy crap. Yeah, it's eye-opening Yeah, I spun that past a couple of my my buddies.

02:03:20 Speaker_00
I actually it was the same buddy They gave me the Yuri Besimnov video that I gave you.

02:03:25 Speaker_01
Oh Fucking videos changed my mind, right? Yeah, you first sent me that you're the first guy by the way, ladies and gentlemen, cuz we play that on this podcast like

02:03:33 Speaker_00
All the time. Yeah, we were at your house.

02:03:35 Speaker_01
Yeah, Jim when you played me that I was like, holy shit This is exactly what happened.

02:03:40 Speaker_00
Yep. I gave it to Jack Carr and Evan Hafer, too There's no way that was a coin like he just guessed it, right? Yeah, right You're like I'm gonna put this next baseball into the you know, the third Yeah, I'll up the thing and crack.

02:03:54 Speaker_00
Well, that was cool seat from the way you're like go back and look so buddy mine That's in that world. He gave that to me four or five years ago. He told me he's like this keeps getting deleted

02:04:04 Speaker_00
And he kind of gives me the whole briefing on a lot of stuff. He kept getting deleted from there. Yeah, off YouTube. He's like, they keep taking it down. No, really?

02:04:10 Speaker_00
I think, honestly, prior to you and Evan and Jack and guys like that, it was not easy to find. I think you guys just changed the algorithm on it enough.

02:04:19 Speaker_01
Wow, which is pretty neat, but that doesn't make any sense because I'm pretty sure we just found it online He just found it on you.

02:04:25 Speaker_00
He told me a multiple multiple times. He's like they've taken this down often Why would someone take it down? I'm not sure but I know some of my buddies that were in the teams and stuff like that.

02:04:36 Speaker_00
They were like Oh, I remember seeing this back in 95 when I went through buds. I Or when I got out, maybe it was Green Team, but they were in that early, early days, like, oh, I hadn't seen this video in forever.

02:04:46 Speaker_00
And then they kind of watched it and were like, oh my gosh, like, you're kind of getting all the background on that. But he was giving me, I can't remember where I was going with this, but he was giving me some insight, oh, about the bends.

02:04:56 Speaker_00
And, uh, it was interesting, and I said, I was like, hey, did you check this out? And he's like, yeah. He's like, sounds like he's read a couple of my briefings. I was like, interesting. Like, some weird stuff going on.

02:05:05 Speaker_00
Mike Benz has got crazy recall, too.

02:05:07 Speaker_01
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he just, no notes, just spitting out all that information right off the top of his head. That's... You've had some...

02:05:16 Speaker_00
Amazingly impactful guests on here like I I'm not trying to blow you up But like I'm sure you know the impact that you've had on the world, which is probably really wild It's pretty weird pretty weird right pretty weird that I didn't even try.

02:05:30 Speaker_01
That's the best part about it, right? That's the weirdest part It was all an accident. I just felt like this is what I should do. I should start a podcast. And then I should keep doing it.

02:05:42 Speaker_01
Even when it was totally non-profitable for five years, I was like, I like doing it. Let's just keep doing it. But that's how all the good stuff works.

02:05:48 Speaker_00
Yeah. It's like you're passionate about it. I want to go do this thing. Evan and I have talked. He's like, hey, I make brown water. And I'm like, I make steel rectangles. It's weird.

02:05:59 Speaker_01
I don't know why we decided to do it, but once you figure out a thing that you're really passionate about Then you'll become successful if you just keep following it.

02:06:08 Speaker_01
Yeah, but the thing about the podcast thing was I Managed to keep the same spirit of just doing what I enjoy doing Yes Like if I could just have conversations with people with no phones and sit and especially if I could get a scientist to sit near Explain things to me for three hours.

02:06:24 Speaker_01
I would have always been interested in doing that but I just You can't do that. They won't do it. You have to become friends with them, and you can only be friends with so many of them. And then you have to fly to them and sit down with them.

02:06:37 Speaker_00
Yeah, you spend all this time, and then you create a honey trap here.

02:06:39 Speaker_01
Then you're like, hey, I'll bring everyone here and talk to them. Well, as long as you can guarantee other people are going to listen, people want to talk about anything, which is really weird.

02:06:46 Speaker_01
Wild like that's the way you can guarantee that you can get them to come as long as they're gonna other people gonna hear it, right?

02:06:53 Speaker_00
They get sell books and yeah the whole yeah, and that's great but it's it's just genius that I just appreciate the illumination on very Ideas like I love that. There's people right the people from left people this like this hate this like I

02:07:11 Speaker_00
That is so refreshing. It's good for all of us. It is.

02:07:14 Speaker_01
It's good to hear people even that you don't agree with. Of course. As long as they're nice. That's my course. I don't want to argue with anybody and get in fucking screaming matches.

02:07:22 Speaker_01
There's some people that are there like we were talking about earlier that they that's how they get engagement by constantly getting in these.

02:07:29 Speaker_01
That's why they have those shows like Pierce Morgan likes to do that whereas like four people on the show they all yell over each other and they're all remote so no one's there. It's like Uh, that sounds horrible. It's horrible.

02:07:40 Speaker_01
I don't find out nothing. If you could sit down with someone, even if you disagree with them and just let them talk, you could have a conversation, you know, find out why they think the way they do. You don't have to fight him on it.

02:07:53 Speaker_01
Just like ask him, what is it about this thing? Yeah. Candid and curious, right?

02:07:58 Speaker_00
Candid as in, I'll actually tell you what I think and curious. I'll actually care what you think.

02:08:02 Speaker_01
Yeah, and I always try to think the way they think if someone's talking to me about a certain thing Like I will you know people.

02:08:09 Speaker_01
Oh, you'll agree with anybody I'm like I kind of will if I can try to see things through your head, and I'll try to steel man it for you

02:08:19 Speaker_01
Mmm, like if someone is saying something and I go, okay, so you're saying that but if it's preposterous, I'll stop it I'll stop and go that doesn't make any sense because of this like I can see that you haven't thought this through because or you didn't know about that or You know, right.

02:08:35 Speaker_01
How could you say this when this is possible? Like how do you?

02:08:38 Speaker_00
How do you imagine so three people will push back with? kind of love, right? Because disagreement doesn't have to mean dismissal. No. And when it does, that's the opposite of love and respect. It's like, no, I don't like you. Well, that's canceling.

02:08:52 Speaker_01
Well, especially if people get shouty and arguey, you know, it's like there's a way to do it where you can just talk about stuff and not be dismissive of someone.

02:09:01 Speaker_01
I mean, I see so many people do it where they have their opinion, like Bill Marlux do that, like dismiss something someone's saying like instantaneously as they're in the middle of explaining it. It's kind of a sparring thing.

02:09:14 Speaker_01
You're trying to win rather than trying to just have a conversation.

02:09:17 Speaker_00
Try to see if the other guy flinches.

02:09:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, you're shutting him down. You're shutting down things you think you're calling bullshit. It's also a lack of patience.

02:09:26 Speaker_01
Sometimes you have to have patience to let someone express themselves fully before you disagree, which is really important, because sometimes someone will begin to express themselves and I disagree, but then they'll take it around and give me some nuance and some understanding of how they came to their

02:09:43 Speaker_01
their opinion, then I'll go, okay.

02:09:45 Speaker_00
Okay.

02:09:46 Speaker_01
So I see, I see how you see the track. Yeah. And so it's more important for you for this than it is to acknowledge that. And they're like, yes. I'm like, okay, I understand. So when did you decide that that was?

02:09:56 Speaker_01
And then, and then I want to go like, I want to know, are you a real thinker? Or are you a person who has adopted a conglomeration of ideas that comes along with an ideology?

02:10:09 Speaker_01
So there's there's really smart people that have done that and they might not even know they've done that until you corner them and then you find like Where did it come? Where's the trans kids?

02:10:19 Speaker_01
There's like occasionally, you know, there's a subject like make sense of this you make sense, right?

02:10:23 Speaker_01
Yeah, follow it up stream by the source and make sense of this and let's acknowledge what a kid is you I want I want to know how vulnerable you think children are first of all, I want to know do you have any

02:10:34 Speaker_01
Second of all, I want to know how malleable and Suggestible like how open to suggestion are children in your eyes. I want to know how Do you think kids should be able to get tattoos? Do you think kids should be able to get married at 5?

02:10:48 Speaker_01
Do you think kids should you know I'm saying? Yeah Do you think they should be what do you think that they can control and that not control? Do you even understand children or are you? sacrificing them and their future

02:11:00 Speaker_01
these kids that you don't even know for your ideology, for your ideological position that's like cult-like. And then you find out about people that think they're intelligent until they're confronted with these like insurmountable ethical dilemmas.

02:11:15 Speaker_00
Right. A similar one to, let's say, someone who eats meat but hates hunting. You're like, you could hate, you could not want to do it. Yes. But there's still a killing and a murder at some point. And you could either be a part of that or just

02:11:28 Speaker_01
Outsource it yeah, and be okay with it well It's also that's a cultural thing to write like there's a lot of people in the UK that don't like hunting Yeah, and they meet and you know they'll tell you like my wife was having a conversation She was at a dinner with a bunch of people and I was out hunting and this guy was eating a steak He's like that's deplorable This is so stupid

02:11:50 Speaker_01
Like, you're literally carving a steak while you're saying it's deplorable that someone's out hunting.

02:11:55 Speaker_00
Like, we eat those animals. And what is generally—and I've had this conversation a number of times as well. And generally, if folks are candid, curious, and respectful, you can kind of bring them around, right?

02:12:05 Speaker_01
Yes, have you had someone that really just dug their heels in or like no no never really in person right online They'll dig their heels into the cows come home, but I feel like most people this is like talking online sucks.

02:12:18 Speaker_01
Yep Most people are good people. I really believe that even if they're like trapped in their bullshit and wrapped up in their own

02:12:26 Speaker_01
Head and most people want to be if given the chance to be yeah, and you can kind of help them along Kind of help them along. They help each other along.

02:12:35 Speaker_01
You know like part of an argument is you you know like it's it's I know that there's arguments that I've been in in my life that I could have avoided

02:12:43 Speaker_01
if I was more skillful with conversation and I know that I have avoided a lot of arguments especially now as a smarter person than I was when I was younger I'm better at it I'm better at just like not biting on some bullshit passive-aggressive stupid thing that some guy says when I was young if someone got passive-aggressive with me I like hey fuck you yeah like like let's just go to where's that going let's just go to 10 yeah I don't like

02:13:10 Speaker_01
how you're talking like I'm not gonna sit here this stupid party and pretend you're not a cunt and you know this has been many times uh you know I got dragged out of a situation before that accelerates yeah because I'm like let's just go to 10 you're a piece of shit like I know what you are yeah you're just a shitty person likes to throw jabs at people when I'm just trying to be nice

02:13:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, and you also know in your pocket, you know, a lot of physical things that could be that helps But also it helps that I know that I'm being nice So if I'm nice to you and you're being a cunt to me and I'm trying to be nice to you again You're just thinking that you can just get away with this.

02:13:45 Speaker_01
That's what I like to go. Hey, fuck you Oh No Yeah, oh no. You've gone into fuck you land. Yeah, now we're here. Yeah, and by the way, emotional pain is something that people think they can get a free slap.

02:14:01 Speaker_01
They think they can just get off on you and hit you with emotional pain. Like, if we're playing this let's hurt each other game, how about I just fuck you up? Yeah, like how about that? How about I just decide I'll spend the night in jail.

02:14:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, how about that? How about fuck you, you know, because like that's what you're doing Emotionally, you're trying to create abusive pain.

02:14:20 Speaker_01
You're you're absolutely being abusive Yes, and some people make a habit out of like demeaning people to their face and they think they can get away with it It's a really shitty practice.

02:14:31 Speaker_00
I do appreciate the people who physically put an end to that and I've never really been like, yeah, you know, I'll do what I need to do, right? But I've never been like, I don't care.

02:14:43 Speaker_00
Had a couple days I'm not proud of, because I kind of went ahead and hit that throttle. Yeah, most of the time it's avoidable. Yeah, but in some days, unfortunately, you're not in the emotional state, and sometimes it is avoidable and you don't avoid.

02:14:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's the thing. Sometimes it is avoidable. I'm so much better at that now. When I was 25, I didn't understand that you don't have to do this.

02:15:06 Speaker_00
Yeah, I've expressed my emotional immaturity at times. I'm like, yeah, I could have really taken that one a different way. And you're thankful. You're like, man, I'm glad that one really didn't go sideways, because that could have.

02:15:16 Speaker_00
It's also like it could go terrible, and someone could get murdered.

02:15:19 Speaker_01
I mean, things happen, and people can't believe what they did. And then all of a sudden, someone's dead. That happens every day in America.

02:15:26 Speaker_00
Oh, I've had a couple close ones that you just kind of everyone walks away. It's like, who? Because you get like, it's like, what was that movie like? Sherlock Holmes.

02:15:36 Speaker_00
Remember when he could see the situations and he like pauses it and you can see like, and when you like pauses and you're like, this would happen, this would happen, this would happen. And then you're like, oh, there's a dead guy. You back it up.

02:15:47 Speaker_00
You're like glad that didn't happen. Okay. Bye. I'm gone.

02:15:49 Speaker_01
Bye. Just walk away It's like you have to learn that and the problem with young guys is first of all, their brains not fully formed They're impulsive.

02:15:57 Speaker_01
They do wild things and then if they feel like they're being slighted they feel like to be a man because they want to be a man you have to do something about it and

02:16:06 Speaker_00
Well, it's the number one question every man has. Every man has the same question. Am I good enough? That's the wounding, right? And every woman goes, her question is, do you see me? That's exactly it. Do you see me? And a man says, am I good enough?

02:16:22 Speaker_00
That's why there's sport. That's why there's fighting. That's why people try to make money. That's why they try to flex on each other. It's the little boy inside all of us going, Am I good enough?

02:16:31 Speaker_01
Yeah, and then there's the the people that get past that and then it becomes this ultimate challenge Like the the ultimate challenge of life is the most difficult puzzle to solve Yes, and the you can solve it above and beyond all these other psychopaths

02:16:47 Speaker_01
So you're competing with all these other people that are very much like you, but what separates you from them is the work that you put in, discipline, drive, mindset, whatever it is that you can find that gives you that edge to pull ahead from all these other people that are very, very competitive as well, doing the same thing.

02:17:05 Speaker_01
And then with men, they feed off each other in those environments. Like a Westside barbell, a cronk gym.

02:17:10 Speaker_00
Yeah, and then when you're wondering that, and then when someone questions it, It's publicly questions in front of your boys or front or whatever.

02:17:18 Speaker_01
It's like no, I'll show you I'm good enough I'll do something stupid right now and end up in jail especially someone who's just a walking dead man with a mouth right like someone who knows they can't defend themselves and so they just feel comfortable doing that publicly because they think they're being protected by society like

02:17:32 Speaker_00
That's the worst. Yeah.

02:17:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, this this actual false state of security like man, we're in the jungle right now You wouldn't be doing that or when women think they can do it when women get mouthy with men Like don't do why when I was I think all 16 or 17 years old I was in high school and there was this kid that moved into the neighborhood He came from Iran and his family had a lot of money.

02:17:55 Speaker_01
And so they had this I think it was in he's Kids from every fucking high school came to this party. And I was at the party with a bunch of my friends and I was walking up the staircase. I'll never forget this.

02:18:23 Speaker_01
So I'm walking up the staircase and then, you know, so it's like right here in front of me while this is going down. I can't remember what the girl did. She either slapped this guy or she threw a drink in his face. I can't remember which one it was.

02:18:36 Speaker_01
Some offense. But I remember he uncorked a right hand like Roberto Duran. This dude threw a right hand like he knew how to punch. Because I knew how to punch, so I watched him like, oh, good mechanics. The dude just went like this, just blap!

02:18:55 Speaker_01
Just hit her on the chin, her head snaps back, a guy catches her, she goes out, and then it's bedlam. It's bedlam. I mean, people are fighting left and right. There's people fighting in the stairwell. I had to run out.

02:19:10 Speaker_01
There's piles of guys out on the lawn. It spread like a disease. It was like within 30 seconds. How did you decide to hit this guy because of that?

02:19:18 Speaker_01
It was screaming and then screaming started people screaming at the people screaming which people were fighting the people that were screaming It was the wildest thing.

02:19:26 Speaker_01
It was like a disease ran through the house like that like world war z where everybody's like And I managed to not have any fights. A couple of my friends got in fights.

02:19:35 Speaker_00
Like one of the better fighters there.

02:19:37 Speaker_01
But I was never interested in street fighting. I'm like, let me get out of here. I know what this is. I understand danger. So I got out there, but I'll never forget that. That girl thought she could hit that guy or do whatever she did.

02:19:50 Speaker_01
I forget what she thought. I wish I could remember.

02:19:52 Speaker_00
Yeah, quality kind of.

02:19:53 Speaker_01
All I remember, because it's like 30, how many years ago was that? 40 years ago? That's a while ago. Oh my God, it's 40 years ago. Yeah, so it was like this. Blap! I mean, just fucking, I'll never forget that, man.

02:20:06 Speaker_01
Horrible to laugh at it because she forgot a lot of things that night. She definitely forgot.

02:20:10 Speaker_00
She might be listening to the podcast now.

02:20:11 Speaker_01
The third grade. Yeah, she was probably like, that's me, my mom. I still can't talk. Like, for sure got a broken face. I mean, he hit her so hard and her head snapped.

02:20:21 Speaker_01
Just snap like she had no idea she was gonna get punched by a big guy who knew how to punch But he was like, hey, fuck you.

02:20:28 Speaker_01
Like you just got the wrong guy with like three millers in him And he just probably the first time that guy probably not the first guy he hit a chick Yeah, cuz the way he did it was like he didn't slap her You know, he didn't slap her.

02:20:40 Speaker_01
That's a scary one. He could have just slapped her or pushed her or something. You didn't have to KO her. But there's women that think that they can just go up to a guy and yell because they're protected by society. There's fucking psychos out there.

02:20:54 Speaker_01
It just goes back to be nice.

02:20:56 Speaker_00
Yes. Be nice, man. Be nice. Like, be nice.

02:20:59 Speaker_01
But there's like, you motherfucker, I'll fucking kick, I'll fucking kill you. Like, hey, hey, hey, hey.

02:21:04 Speaker_00
Yeah. Hey. I've been backed up a couple of times with the ba, ba, bumps on the chest and it's like, all right, all right, all right. Then you're like backed against a car, like at a tailgate or something. You're like.

02:21:14 Speaker_01
yeah and when you say don't touch me yeah it gets it gets hot and then it's like they might just touch you because you said don't touch me and like i'm telling you don't touch me and then you have to touch them and then oh you're assaulting me like no no you're still talking so i haven't assaulted you

02:21:32 Speaker_01
If I assaulted you, this would be over super quick. Right.

02:21:35 Speaker_00
So let's not do that. Yep. That happened to me in D.C. I was walking with my wife, and it's during when everything was popping off. Oh. Big, big time. Big, big time. People got real mouthy. Real, real.

02:21:50 Speaker_00
And we're walking through, and of course, truth be told, I'm walking through. My wife looks like a Viking also, and we're walking through D.C. during the height of everything. Height of everything.

02:22:00 Speaker_00
No mask, because I'm outside and I'm a sovereign individual and screw that. And a whole chattering group of a certain population of, well, it's Antifa. And so they're rah, rah, rah. And I just said, I'm not going to stop walking.

02:22:17 Speaker_00
Please move out of my way. Meanwhile you did nothing. I literally was walking across and there were 40 yards from me and ran across the street to come yell at me like a bark.

02:22:30 Speaker_00
They ever seen like a like a bear or a wild boar gets like bade by dogs and they're all like

02:22:36 Speaker_00
Yeah, and we're just walking and it's like, okay, please and we're trying to get to my hotel and there's a cop because they boarded everything off because everything was crazy.

02:22:43 Speaker_00
It was like the four big groups were all doing the deal that weekend and I was like, my hotel's right there. Sorry. I said, sir, do you think I really want to deal with this? Like, like in there, everyone has their cameras out.

02:22:54 Speaker_00
Cause they're like, big guy's going to smoke somebody. Right. And then there's a whole deal. And then finally, actually one of them was chirping at me. She fell down and tripped over something and I helped her up because that's what you do.

02:23:07 Speaker_00
And then, get your hands off. I was like, okay man, can I please get to my, like this is a thing. And then they played music all night till seven in the morning right outside of our hotel just to make sure that no one slept. It was a wonderful time.

02:23:20 Speaker_00
Fun times. It was a great time.

02:23:22 Speaker_01
Whatever happened to Law and Order? Why did people think that was a good thing? There were so many goofy motherfuckers that didn't want people mad at them, so they started yelling out, defund the police. They started getting on board with it.

02:23:33 Speaker_01
Even Kamala Harris posted, defund the police. I mean, defund the police on Twitter.

02:23:38 Speaker_00
Yeah, when is it a good idea ever to kind of cancel anyone? Like besides like someone that hurts children like after that kind of do what you want to do, right?

02:23:46 Speaker_01
Well, that's not even a canceling thing That was just people had decided that there was an enemy out there. I I say this that like protests are too much like war

02:23:56 Speaker_01
You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling you all have a cause and you're all moving as one group It's too much like war.

02:24:03 Speaker_01
I think there's some just triggers That's why mob mentality exists because you got to be able to kill people if some shits going down if you're at war so there's like escalates Right. There's a mode that people snap into. It's called mob mentality.

02:24:16 Speaker_01
Why does it exist? It exists because at certain points in history, we have gone to war with other groups of people on the ground. And I think that's built into your psyche. And I think it's just like catching a fish. You know how you catch a fish?

02:24:30 Speaker_01
Like if no one's ever caught a fish before, you catch it, you get so excited. I think it's because your brain is hardwired to know that that fish is going to feed you. And that's why it's exciting.

02:24:40 Speaker_01
And you're hardwired to know that if you're yelling and you meet an opposing group, those are the bad people. And you're looking for people that are opposing groups, because you've got power. There's a bunch of them. Yeah, you're a bunch of bullies.

02:24:52 Speaker_01
You're rolling deep. And you find that fucking white guy with the beard, and you're like, he's the enemy. It was wild. It was wild. But it was like an open door to this psyche that has always existed. That mob mentality has always been a thing.

02:25:07 Speaker_01
And if you open that door, and you allow it to stay open, and you don't do something to close it with law and order, you have fucking madness. You have madness. And we had that. We had that on the streets.

02:25:18 Speaker_01
In certain places in this country, for months at a time, it was fucking chaotic.

02:25:22 Speaker_00
Bonkers. Yeah. It was actually pretty cool in my, I don't want to say none of that world was cool. But during my town, they started burning stuff and everything like that. And my sheriff, he's a friend of mine, he's like, yeah, we shut that down fast.

02:25:36 Speaker_00
I was like, what happened? He's like, someone threw a brick. I got center mass with a bean bag. Period. First time. And I go, how long did that take? He goes, we haven't had a problem since. I was like, perfect.

02:25:47 Speaker_01
He's like, you know. And that's kind. It's being kind.

02:25:49 Speaker_00
Yeah, exactly. The beanbag is being kind. Yeah. A severe punishment, really fast, generally trains people pretty quickly. And then it's like, all right, our town went back to being cool. Everyone's fine.

02:25:59 Speaker_01
Yeah, there's there's no reason for it and it was it's it's crazy how quickly it all boiled over and the It was all these events happening together at the same time, right the covid the lockdowns the anger Everybody got real weird because everybody's just locked in their home for months at a time

02:26:14 Speaker_01
And then the George Floyd thing and the public outrage and the people were on the street and then people were encouraging it and funding it. There was people that was there were certain groups that were encouraging it, organizing it and funding it.

02:26:26 Speaker_01
And they got money from people to do it. And they had pallets of bricks that were conveniently located on the street. All that stuff's real.

02:26:33 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, we saw it. It was remarkable to see it in real time.

02:26:38 Speaker_01
That's why it's crazy having a guy like Mike Benz lay out how it all is going down. And you think, oh, it's all organic. People are fed up. Uh-uh. No. No, there's a bunch of people that are profiting off of this. Yes. They want this to take place.

02:26:53 Speaker_01
They want to be able to push new laws through. They want to be able to grip tighter, tighter control on censorship.

02:27:00 Speaker_01
Tiger these social media companies have to pay they're responsible for this no no no you fucking funded it you fucking funded it with tax money that was fault filtered through NGOs you cocksuckers you guys are a part of this you want this to happen right that's where you everyone just like everyone just pause yeah just like pump the brakes if he feels like what was that song by Iron Maiden

02:27:24 Speaker_00
I can't remember, but it speeds up at the end. That's what it felt like the last four years, especially during 2020. I was like, this is the end of paranoid or whatever it was.

02:27:35 Speaker_00
And it just sped up and you're like, oh, is this how the end of the story goes as in humanity? It could be. Yeah.

02:27:41 Speaker_01
I think we got a taste of what's possible, but I also think it was horrible. Anybody who lost someone anybody where it all went down. I think it was horrible don't get me wrong But I also think we're lucky yes, because we got to see it.

02:27:55 Speaker_01
It's horrible if you lost your business It's horrible if you got forced to get vaccinated. It's horrible all those things are horrible, but we got to see How many people are fucking cowards?

02:28:05 Speaker_01
We got to see how many people fold as soon as there are any sort of external pressure from either their surroundings or how many people got forced into it by their job. We got to see that. And we got to see how there are unscrupulous groups in power.

02:28:21 Speaker_01
that will coerce people to do things that are not scientific, they're not ethical, they're not moral, if they can profit off of it.

02:28:28 Speaker_01
And we got to see that, that they will use you as a human fucking ATM machine and they will figure out a way to maximize their profits and maximize their control. So now we know. So now we know.

02:28:39 Speaker_01
So now you can't think that the world is some sort of 1950s movie where the good guys wear the white hats and the bad guys wear the black hats. You gotta realize, like, there's a lot of

02:28:50 Speaker_01
Human interest shit going on and humans have a certain interest in getting control over money and over people and they do it whenever they can and if they can do it through the guise of being Progressive and kind or if they can do it through the guise of you know Whatever pull yourself up by your bootstraps like whatever it is.

02:29:08 Speaker_01
Yep. They find a way to to rationalize these very specific patterns of behavior that the founding fathers of this country fought against when they created the Bill of Rights and they created the Constitution.

02:29:20 Speaker_01
They did all that knowing that these human nature, these human instincts exist.

02:29:26 Speaker_00
Yeah. It'll keep flowcharting back down to this eventually. It's like, hold on. People are people and people are going to do people stuff.

02:29:33 Speaker_01
And every time they pass something like the Patriot Act or the Patriot Act II, they just chip away at that. They're chipping away at that. And it's their job to do that in their mind. It shouldn't be, because there's not enough oversight of them.

02:29:45 Speaker_01
That's the problem. This is the whole concept of the deep state, which was always such a stupid conspiracy theory for the longest time. People were like, oh, you're worried about the deep state? Until you are. Until you're like, oh my god, it's real.

02:29:58 Speaker_01
Oh my God, how did that kid get on that roof? How did he walk around with a fucking range finder like we were talking about before? Range finders? Yeah, that's what he had. That's why you use those folks for fucking shooting people. He's not golfing.

02:30:12 Speaker_01
The whole thing was nuts. The whole thing was nuts. And we were all just sitting there going, oh, the deep state's real.

02:30:20 Speaker_01
like oh someone someone did something here how did his apartment get professionally scrubbed is there are there a team of people that are actually organizing something like this has this happened before why won't they release the kennedy files he died

02:30:35 Speaker_01
How many fucking years ago 1963? Yeah, how why don't that's 61 years ago. How about you release that?

02:30:43 Speaker_00
Yeah, maybe like or Hey, how about you guys release that? Yeah, or there's maybe a reason? Yeah, do you think that stuff's good?

02:30:51 Speaker_01
I mean do you think 61 years is not a lot of time though? That's a good point. Like maybe you should wait another 60 It makes sense, right? People aren't ready yet I've thought about that

02:31:04 Speaker_00
I want to know, right? I want to see behind all the scenes. I want to see the Epstein's, the Diddy's, the Kennedy's.

02:31:10 Speaker_01
Cash Patel says first day, day one. Let's go. That's what he says. Let's see it. If they get him in there. What a stud, right? Oh man, if you are the Deep State, you know what he said he wanted to do?

02:31:20 Speaker_01
He would close Langley and make it a museum of the Deep State.

02:31:28 Speaker_00
First thing he said he would do and then just reorganize everything and say now go back to chasing criminals Yeah, and stop attacking the fucking citizens stop spying on people you fucking weirdos I'm so pumped about him and Tulsi and like there's just such an awesome group of people that are just certainly interesting.

02:31:46 Speaker_00
I mean, it's

02:31:47 Speaker_01
I'm even excited about the way Trump is doing interviews now. It's like he's become a wiser person in interviews. He did this interview with this lady from, I think it was NBC. The recent one that he did was over an hour.

02:32:00 Speaker_01
But even the way he was talking to her, she was saying things, he's like, you would be so much better if you weren't so biased. That's what he said to her. It was like a kind way of saying it to her.

02:32:08 Speaker_00
Do you think he always had that and he's just so intelligent, he's playing different cards at different times?

02:32:13 Speaker_01
I think he's realizing that part of the problem is not just the resistance that he faced, but his reaction to the resistance. And he still slips sometimes, like he tweets out, I hate Taylor Swift. Which I thought was hilarious.

02:32:30 Speaker_01
I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. I just love irrational tweeters.

02:32:33 Speaker_00
Right, right. I mean, at what point does the incoming president gonna just dunk on somebody?

02:32:38 Speaker_01
Well, he wasn't winning yet. I think he was freaking out, you know? I honestly think he was freaking out. You think?

02:32:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, because they were doing a PSYOP and they were all of a sudden making it seem like Kamala Harris was the dream that we'd always been looking for.

02:32:54 Speaker_01
And they were tricking people who recognized that she was an unpopular vice president just three weeks ago. And everybody was all of a sudden on board. And that was spun around fast. Jesus, it was wild to watch.

02:33:05 Speaker_01
But that was another thing, like, if you can learn from it, look, we got through it, it didn't work, but you should learn that the government will organize to do that to protect their position of power. Because here's what's up.

02:33:17 Speaker_01
The people that are in power, and we're not even saying they're evil, I'm not saying anything bad about them, but the people in the administration that's there currently, they're all gonna lose their jobs, okay? Or they keep their jobs.

02:33:28 Speaker_01
So if they can keep their jobs, what's the way we keep our job? The way we keep our job is we present her as the best option possible. Even if they don't think that's true, they have a vested interest.

02:33:39 Speaker_01
You're talking about thousands of people that are in control of these very organizations that were going after social media and were getting them to take down factual information because it was dangerous to their narrative.

02:33:51 Speaker_01
So they have already shown that they don't have ethics. They have already shown that they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech in the First Amendment.

02:33:58 Speaker_01
What they want is to keep their fucking job and keep power and also not get in trouble for some of the shit they did that was maybe illegal. Which we wouldn't have even known about if Elon didn't buy Twitter.

02:34:09 Speaker_00
Yeah. I mean, I agree. I think the Elon buy on Twitter was like that. It's a game changer. A game changer. The fork in the road for civilization. Yeah. It's wild to think, isn't it?

02:34:18 Speaker_01
Marc Andreessen has said there's two forks in the road. There's one, Elon buys Twitter, and two, Trump turns his head and doesn't get shot. Those are the two. Yeah. If those two things don't happen, who fucking knows where we are?

02:34:32 Speaker_00
I don't disagree. And you look at those both scenarios are both

02:34:36 Speaker_00
like one in a million, how would, A, that Trump turns his head, that's wild, but then how would a guy like Elon exist, first of all, in our lifetime, what are the odds, right, that has the vehicle of Twitter, and all the things line up.

02:34:55 Speaker_01
Not just has the vehicle, has so much fuck you money that he's willing to blow $44 billion on something that's worth $200 billion, maybe.

02:35:04 Speaker_01
So or rather 20 billion, maybe so one of the things that like this is narrative like he's such a bad businessman Twitter is worth 20 billion dollars less than when he purchased it. No, no, no, it was never worth that much. He overpaid for it, right?

02:35:17 Speaker_01
He overpaid for it on purpose. Yeah, knowingly yeah knowingly He just wanted to take control of this fucking thing that has always been so important to us, which is the First Amendment. Here's my favorite.

02:35:31 Speaker_01
People keep saying, I keep seeing this where people that go over to Blue Sky, they keep saying,

02:35:36 Speaker_01
what Elon's done is highlight right-wing voices and accentuate right and Twitter is overrun by right-wing now no no no no this is actually representative of the real country which is 50-50 this is what you never had before because conservative voices were always censored always so now conservative voices and progressive voices coexist and the progressive voices who are the babies

02:36:03 Speaker_01
Don't like it because now they have people that think completely different than them and they don't they can't stop them They're used to silence them You used to not be able to say anything about certain things you would get kicked off and now you could fully express yourself Sure, and you're finding out there's people you agree with there's people you disagree with that is the world The world is not some fucked up echo chamber where if you say, you know To a man is never a woman you get banned for life

02:36:33 Speaker_01
That happened to my friend Megan Murphy. She got banned for life because she said, a man is never a woman, which is biologically true. But they were like, no, that's transphobic. For life. For life. For life, forever. Bye.

02:36:46 Speaker_01
So they don't want any narrative contrary to what they have accepted as doctrine. And that's what's so fucked up.

02:36:54 Speaker_00
Remaining dogmatic in the face of alternate information.

02:36:57 Speaker_01
pushed, pushed by the government.

02:37:00 Speaker_00
This is what's really important. And again, that's where you kind of look back and go, if something is being pushed by anyone, follow the money, follow the track. Like why?

02:37:07 Speaker_01
So they're doing it under the guise of being progressive. So this is why they think it's worth doing. It's like if you can allow the government to censor you under the guise

02:37:18 Speaker_01
of them being on the good side, then you're lost, because then you've bought into this nonsense.

02:37:24 Speaker_01
And you have, if you just looked at it objectively, you have people that are still supporting the military-industrial complex, still supporting overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries, still the same shit that you hated about the right, and that same government, you've let them into your home and you let them control this most important platform of free speech in the world.

02:37:46 Speaker_01
because you think they're doing it for your side, which is a good thing. Meanwhile, they're drone bombing people in Yemen. They don't give a fuck about you. This is so stupid. They're just trying to stay in power.

02:37:58 Speaker_01
And they knew that they were going to lose power if that Hunter Biden laptop got out. They're like, we're fucked. This could cost us 10 million votes.

02:38:04 Speaker_00
And the wild part is, I guess because it's after the fact, but it doesn't seem like that whole thing really, really changed the scoreboard. And maybe I could be wrong. The Hunter Biden laptop thing?

02:38:14 Speaker_01
I think it did. I think it did. I don't think enough people were talking about it. They didn't know if they weren't if they will first of all, where do people find out things?

02:38:24 Speaker_01
Most people are not finding out things through the newspaper No, they're finding out things through social means if you can block it on social media, they don't find out about it.

02:38:31 Speaker_00
Of course There's so many things I talk to people about that's like kind of in our world like just everyone knows this stuff And I'll talk to people just on the street. They have no idea.

02:38:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, most people don't have any idea.

02:38:42 Speaker_00
And that's where I started going, oh, there's different narratives being spun to different algorithmic groups. Because we're all in The Truman Show, our own little Truman Show. And we all think that we know what's going on. And I'm like, hey, guys.

02:38:56 Speaker_00
We all have our different scoreboard somehow that's been put up, so let's just question the scoreboard for a minute. And learn how to communicate with people you disagree with.

02:39:03 Speaker_01
And this is the problem with these people that wanted all the right-wing voices banned from Twitter. Like, hey guys, that's bad for you. It's bad for you. Yes, and it's bad for your your own objectivity your own understanding of the world.

02:39:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, you need to even if someone's Wildly incorrect if they're wildly wrong. You need to be able to know that people do think that way.

02:39:26 Speaker_00
It's good for you Yeah, make a good point and like let's listen yeah, and I enjoy talking to people from all over and I like much like yourself and I I Stupidly got into some some DMS with like people just like hit me up.

02:39:39 Speaker_00
They're like, hey, then I'll just like well I'll ride the ride, you know, and I'll ask questions and this and that the other but it was very illuminating like oh Wow, you're looking at a totally different scoreboard a totally different game clock a whole different thing And it it makes me at least question myself and go.

02:39:54 Speaker_00
Well, maybe I'm watching. I'm the crazy one. Maybe I'm I No, they're just a Cowboys fan.

02:39:59 Speaker_01
They're a Cowboys fan. The Cowboys can do no wrong. Right. And you're like, fuck you. I like the writers. Like whatever it is. Show you guys. That's what it is. It's teams for people who don't believe in sports. And that's politics for a lot of those fuckers.

02:40:11 Speaker_01
A lot of those fuckers are not into sports. Or competition. I've always been super reluctant to the whole team thing in the first place because

02:40:21 Speaker_01
When I stopped playing baseball and I started fighting one of the reasons why I did it was like I didn't like that Little Billy can drop the ball, and I'm a fucking loser. I get it.

02:40:29 Speaker_01
I didn't like that I get it I like to rely on myself like I've never played a team sport the most relying on myself to me was like fighting I was like we have the same weight we There's no trickery or three two one go. You know you're like.

02:40:42 Speaker_01
Are you ready? Are you ready go? It was like so simple to me like this is what I'm looking for this is like competition that makes sense to me in this idea of like Joining a group of people and all of their opinions. I have to agree with like

02:40:56 Speaker_01
That's horrendous to me. What are the odds they're going to be right? Even in fighting, so many people are so wrong in their ideas. There's guys in the gym that I'll hear them giving advice like, you don't need submission.

02:41:11 Speaker_01
You just want to learn submission defense. What are you talking about? Don't tell him that. You should shut the fuck up. And this guy's a trained fighter in a gym. And he's telling people, you just need submission defense. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:41:24 Speaker_01
You need to learn how to do it so you can even defend it correctly. Right, just even know what's out there.

02:41:27 Speaker_00
It's like listening to the other side. Right. It's like, hey, tell me why you believe X, Y, and Z that I think is absurd. But yeah, give me, oh, wow. OK, well, now I realize you're crazy, but at least I know. It's also.

02:41:39 Speaker_01
Like, who are you training with where you don't think that works? Why don't you go train with Fabricio Verdum and then tell me you should learn your guard? You don't know what you're talking about. You're talking nonsense.

02:41:51 Speaker_01
You're saying something from this very narrow-minded perspective, like, you can only learn so many skills. No, you should learn the whole thing. And if you can't learn the whole thing, you're in the wrong game.

02:42:02 Speaker_01
Because these kids that are coming up, guarantee you that. I watch some of these kids that are coming up in the amateur ranks, and the kids that are fighting in the UK, and they're gonna make their way in the UFC.

02:42:10 Speaker_01
These motherfuckers are complete, and they're like 18. Some of these kids that are fighting in one FC, they're like 17, 18 years old, and they're complete. They can do everything. You better learn how to do everything.

02:42:22 Speaker_00
Yeah, you're gonna meet that guy.

02:42:24 Speaker_01
Yeah, that guy's out there and otherwise you're in the wrong game And if you're giving advice saying you don't need to learn that like oh, oh, that's a good Like if you're ever given advice as someone doesn't need to expand their horizons like that's just wrong, right?

02:42:36 Speaker_01
But imagine if that guy's your coach and imagine you have a team and everyone the team has to believe that submissions.

02:42:41 Speaker_00
That's just be

02:42:42 Speaker_01
building narrative right and then you get trapped with all these meatheads that think it's just all about ground and pound and then you get Triangled every weekend. You're like I'm tired of getting triangle.

02:42:51 Speaker_00
Yeah.

02:42:51 Speaker_00
Well, it's the same Tribalism and strength conditioning to you either guy get guys are like all the powerlifting moves That's all you got to do bench squat, but it's like all the other guys Olympic lift I got a snatch clean and jerk and everything else is stupid and

02:43:05 Speaker_00
You're like, okay guys like and I used to joke I was like I can look at your shoes and I could tell you What tribe you're in and what music you probably what shoes are what are the shoes that you look at converse all-stars?

02:43:16 Speaker_01
A lot of guys live with those because they'll be westside.

02:43:18 Speaker_00
That's a hardcore. It's a hardcore dude. He's gonna run all-star. He's gonna work run call converse. He's gonna box squat Why doesn't converse make an all-star with a wider toe box?

02:43:27 Speaker_01
Oh Because I try to lift in converse and I'm like, these are stupid. They're hard. They're hard to do. I like a wide toe box. I like a Vivo barefoot like that. But converse are good because they're flat. There's not a lot of, there's no cushion there.

02:43:39 Speaker_00
Well, it depends on what you're doing, right? If you're like more of a wide stance, sumo, or box squat, because your feet, your heels aren't elevated, it's actually a better situation for squatting. Right.

02:43:50 Speaker_00
Well, if you're an Olympic lifter, you're going to be closer. So you want heels elevated with a flexible toe. So you look and you're like, oh, OK, this is what you're doing.

02:43:58 Speaker_00
And then I kind of laugh, like the guys with the cross trainers are usually just dudes that do a whole bunch of crap and they're doing plyos and dancing around and whatever.

02:44:05 Speaker_00
But there's always like these little tribal things, like if you're this person, you're wearing Chucks and you're listening to Pantera. Like it's just part of the gig. It's always funny. And it's like, all right. Some people think you have to lift heavy.

02:44:17 Speaker_00
If you don't lift heavy, you're a pussy. Oh, or you have to listen to music at like 8,000 decibels to lift heavy. Yeah. And slap your fucking thighs and scream. I've danced that dance before. Throw the power out of your hands. Oh, I've done the soul.

02:44:31 Speaker_00
I've done the- Smelling salts? Of course.

02:44:33 Speaker_01
Oh, we do smelling salts in here.

02:44:35 Speaker_00
Let's go. Yeah, let's roll.

02:44:37 Speaker_01
Let's go.

02:44:41 Speaker_00
This is a good one, huh? Rough. It's probably better than what I had back in the day.

02:44:45 Speaker_01
This is a good one, and it's not even that fresh. Yeah, it's not even fresh. That's worse. It's worse than I remember. That's Juju Mufu's.

02:44:52 Speaker_02
Yeah.

02:44:54 Speaker_01
We are an unlicensed promoter of this brand.

02:45:00 Speaker_00
Yeah, I know. Yeah, we used to do the little capsules and break them, and that's a whole different animal.

02:45:05 Speaker_01
Yeah, that shit's real.

02:45:06 Speaker_00
That's a whole jar of it.

02:45:08 Speaker_01
It's potent. The fumes that come out are so strong. When you have a sealed bag, you can smell it on the outside of the bag. Then when you open the bag, you get a sealed bottle.

02:45:15 Speaker_00
I think my ears are bleeding now.

02:45:16 Speaker_01
Just the smell from the opening the bag is rough. Yeah. No, I just What does it do? Does that really help you? Have you ever tried to lift before that and then add it?

02:45:26 Speaker_00
It just snaps the central nervous system. Kind of like, you know, when you're passed out, right? Does it make you a little stronger, you think? More mad. More mad. More mad. Mad's good. Mad's good.

02:45:34 Speaker_00
On big gross motor movements, squats, deadlifts, I used to call like, deadlifts are just how mad you are.

02:45:41 Speaker_01
They used to have the strongest man competitions all the time on ESPN. Yeah, well those dudes were like holding on to cars on the ramps. Oh, so cross.

02:45:50 Speaker_00
Yeah, the big stones and atlas stones. Oh, so great.

02:45:54 Speaker_01
It was fun.

02:45:54 Speaker_00
Yeah, I watched them all the time in the 90s and then actually my dad was uh, In 1980 at the Playboy Club, he was with Bill Kazmaier when he did the Silver Dollar Deadlift. What's the Silver Dollar Deadlift?

02:46:05 Speaker_00
He had like 900-something pounds of these clear boxes, and they were filled with silver dollars. Oh, wow. And it was super cool. And so it was like an iconic lift, and Pops was like, hanging out with his cats.

02:46:17 Speaker_00
And it was funny because there's like a whole picture of him and pretty sure, I mean, he was obviously trained. I think he was partying pretty hard too. Straight off of a, of a ripper. And, uh, and I was like, man, the eighties were awesome.

02:46:28 Speaker_00
It looked like he looked like Magnum PI. It was awesome.

02:46:32 Speaker_01
Yeah. They were just learning things.

02:46:34 Speaker_00
Oh man. The pioneer days, basically. It was so cool.

02:46:37 Speaker_01
You always knew that if you're watching The Strongest Man, if the dude's name was Magnus, he was gonna fuck things up.

02:46:41 Speaker_00
Yeah, yeah.

02:46:42 Speaker_01
Some Magnus character.

02:46:43 Speaker_00
Is there a Magnus in, a Samuelson, if there's some sons involved?

02:46:48 Speaker_01
You know, one of those guys is fighting MMA. He's been fighting at Mariusz Pudzianowski. Oh, I remember Mariusz.

02:46:53 Speaker_00
Yeah.

02:46:53 Speaker_01
He went from being a strong man to being a really good MMA fighter.

02:46:58 Speaker_00
I could see that.

02:46:59 Speaker_01
In the beginning, he was getting fucked up, but he tried to dive in right away. He tried to fight... God, he fought some good fighters right away.

02:47:08 Speaker_00
When Marius was at the height, because we used to do a lot with the Arnold Strongman Classic.

02:47:13 Speaker_01
He fought Tim Sylvia, that's how he fought. Oh my gosh, did he? He fought Tim Sylvia like really early on. Like when Tim, yeah. So he fought Tim Sylvia in his third pro fight and he got the fuck beaten out of him. Yeah, whatever. Like that was just...

02:47:26 Speaker_01
He fought Butterbean, he beat Butterbean. He lost to James Thompson, and he beat James Thompson. Oh, well, no contest, it says. Yeah. What a stud. Fought Bob Sapp. That was when Bob Sapp was, like, taking some kind of dives.

02:47:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, my buddy used to train with Bob. Holes Gracie, beat Holes Gracie. Yeah, he knocked Holes Gracie out. Yeah, so he's had, like, a bunch of, like, legit MMA fights.

02:47:51 Speaker_00
Yeah, Pujanowski was one of the first guys I ever saw that was that big, that had vascular lats. So we were in the backstage, and it was kind of weird, because he was considerably bigger that year than before. And I think even taller, too.

02:48:04 Speaker_00
I was like, this guy wasn't much.

02:48:07 Speaker_01
How did he get taller?

02:48:09 Speaker_00
That's what I was questioning. He's on all kinds of crazy shit. I don't remember him being taller as my height. That's amazing. Oh boy, got taller. Look at the size of that motherfucker.

02:48:18 Speaker_00
Yeah, he was backstage and everyone was like, big, big, but it was like, Marius is in a whole different category. Oh, he was a tank. On multiple levels.

02:48:25 Speaker_01
See if you can find him now, though. He's slimmed down considerably. He still looks fucking huge. But as an MMA fighter now, he's, yeah, see there? Click on that picture. No, the other one. Terrifying. What above it? Right above it? I mean, that's not new.

02:48:39 Speaker_01
Yeah, but what year is that?

02:48:40 Speaker_03
I don't know. It's clearly old, though.

02:48:42 Speaker_01
Oh, because it's blurry? 22 years old. Does it say that it's 22 years old? It's a potato camera. Oh, okay. See if you can find some footage of him actually fighting. Maybe there's some ... I'm sure he's got some high ... There he is right there.

02:48:53 Speaker_01
He's on his knees. Oh, here we go.

02:48:57 Speaker_00
So he's still stiff, but he's got good technique, and he's got a lot of power, man. Yeah. Look at the muscles on the back of his neck. He looks like one of those bucks during the rut, when their necks blow up really big. Yeah.

02:49:07 Speaker_01
But at least he's throwing correctly, hands up high. And this is all technical work here.

02:49:14 Speaker_00
Well, it's like Brian Shaw's been doing a little bit of sparring with Derek Wolf.

02:49:18 Speaker_02
Oh, Jesus.

02:49:19 Speaker_00
How terrible is that? What does he weigh, 390? I don't know. I mean, I know he was up to 440-something. At one point, my dad is actually who got him into Strongman. He came by our booth at 18 years old, and my dad was like, hey, you're really strong.

02:49:33 Speaker_00
You should get into this. Yeah, he should be on another planet. You're too big. You're too big for this planet. Yeah, he was probably 240 when we met him. That makes me believe in the Anunnaki. Right.

02:49:44 Speaker_01
Right, there's actually- Giants, they're like, what happened? How'd you get so big?

02:49:49 Speaker_00
Those dudes you ever cleaved Dean you ever remember that yeah, so he was a old they called him like a pig farmer He was the one the one the original world's strongest man But he was an arm wrestling champion, and it was like all those old like weirs like 440 pound like just giant farmer.

02:50:03 Speaker_00
Yeah Yeah, that cat.

02:50:06 Speaker_01
Oh, why is that poor little fellow arm wrestling? I mean look how big that human is Jesus Christ look at his hand. Oh my god. Oh Look at that photo, that's Big Daddy Goodridge, who's an MMA fighter. Look at the hand holding the table in the front.

02:50:23 Speaker_01
Look at the size of that fucking thing. Wild, right? Yeah. If you could teach that guy how to throw a jab, you'd fuck a lot of people up.

02:50:29 Speaker_00
I would like to see a fight between him and Andre the Giant. That'd been awesome. Definitely wouldn't be long. Right, right.

02:50:37 Speaker_01
Did you ever meet Andre? No, I did not. Yeah, I would like to have met him. I met Hulk Hogan twice. Did you?

02:50:45 Speaker_01
I met him once when he was super tall and then, well I met him multiple times, but I met him once when he was super tall and then now he's just like regular big. Really? Yeah, because he's lost like five or six inches of height for his back.

02:50:57 Speaker_01
Oh, he's just getting compressed? All of his back is all like fused. Wow. His whole back is fused. He's so fucked. How many surgeries did he say he had, Jamie? Some crazy amount of back surgeries. Really? Yeah, his whole back is fucked.

02:51:09 Speaker_01
Like he walks with a cane. It's rough.

02:51:12 Speaker_03
And it was because of 25 in the last 10 years.

02:51:16 Speaker_01
25 back surgeries.

02:51:17 Speaker_03
So he's just lost all of his... He's had knees, hips, shoulders, face, abs.

02:51:25 Speaker_00
I'm sure you've met Stallone before, right? Yeah. Yeah. Have y'all just talked random, old, weird stuff?

02:51:31 Speaker_01
No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him very much. I interviewed him once for, I think it was Spike TV, when I was doing the UFC thing. I interviewed him. He was fun.

02:51:41 Speaker_00
He is wild. He's very similar to you in that he remembers everything from those eras of stuff. And you know Gunner Peterson? So I was at Gunner's gym in LA, and Stallone was in there. I was like, oh, this is badass. Frickin' Stallone. I'm a kid of the 80s.

02:51:57 Speaker_00
And I was like, hey, you know, would you mind? He sat down with me for 45 minutes. Oh, wow. And we just talked, like, but he mentioned Cleve Dean.

02:52:06 Speaker_00
Like, he remembered, like, all the arm wrestlers, the boxers, like, historian of the human performance world. It was like, oh, this is so cool. I figured you guys had to, like, have nerded out about it.

02:52:16 Speaker_01
Did you, have you ever paid any attention to the old catch wrestling guys? No, what's that? Okay. Catch wrestling was catch as catch can, which is what they used to call it, I think, when they were in England.

02:52:29 Speaker_01
And when they came over to America, what it was was basically wrestling with submissions. And there were certain rules like you could pin a guy or you could submit him and they can tap.

02:52:42 Speaker_01
And there was a few guys that were legendary for their strength and conditioning routines. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Josh Barnett learned under Carl Gotch.

02:52:52 Speaker_01
And Gotch was famous for having this unbelievable gauntlet of strength and conditioning work that you had to be able to get through before he would even train you. Really? Yeah. He went over to Japan and Gotch trained a lot of guys.

02:53:06 Speaker_01
There's a lot of catch wrestling influence. What era was that? Well, when you go back to the early days of catchers, like, go back, go Farmer Burns, because Farmer Burns was like one of the, what is this? What am I watching here?

02:53:18 Speaker_01
What is Catch As Catch Can? So these guys, they would have these. Was that George Hackenschmidt?

02:53:23 Speaker_00
Is that what it was? Yeah, back up for a second. So yeah, Hackenschmidt. Yeah, so. So he's like one of the fathers of strength and conditioning.

02:53:30 Speaker_01
Makes sense, because a lot of these, Carl Gotch and Hackenschmidt were duking it out at Comiskey Park. And they would have wrestling matches, but they were real matches. Wow. And then somewhere along the line, they started doing carnival matches.

02:53:47 Speaker_01
And then these carnival matches, they had, you know, regular people that they would find and they would like have predetermined outcomes. Then it became pro wrestling. And that's where pro wrestling was given birth to. Right.

02:54:00 Speaker_01
It was out of this necessity to kind of rig the matches. Right. But getting the wahoo chop.

02:54:05 Speaker_01
See, these are kind of enthusiasts that are doing it now, like in a modern setting, but the guys who really know the stuff, like Josh Barnett has tapped out some legit Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts in competition with catch wrestling techniques.

02:54:19 Speaker_01
It's like Kimura's, Americana's, they call that a double wrist lock though, they have like different terminology for some of the same moves.

02:54:28 Speaker_01
but Farmer Burns was this guy that was He was so legendary with his strength and conditioning that he would hang from a tree He would literally like hang himself like his neck his neck was so built up and he was a small guy He was like 160 pounds, but he was so jacked and his he literally had like a pitbull neck There's there's photos of him where he would do this stunt where he would hang by the neck in front of crowds Look at him

02:54:57 Speaker_01
That's him.

02:54:57 Speaker_00
Oh, wow. Okay, that's farmer burns.

02:54:59 Speaker_01
Okay, probably very similar to the mighty Adam if you've ever heard of him But you know how fucking strong your neck has to be and not just hang sometimes hang like all the time Look at his neck.

02:55:10 Speaker_01
That's amazing Look at his fucking neck, but he knew that you know If your neck is weak your body's weak your core is weak if someone collar ties you and you got a neck like that You can resist it and you could work your shit Yeah

02:55:24 Speaker_01
Anything that hangs out of your t-shirt you better train.

02:55:26 Speaker_01
There was a bunch of those guys Back in those days that just had these incredible strength and conditioning programs, and they used a lot of things like steel maces Yep, like Carl Gotch was see if you can find Carl Gotch strength and conditioning routine Because even like as an older man when he was teaching people stuff.

02:55:44 Speaker_01
He would show how he maneuvered these You know, these big fucking aces. It's like super impressive stuff. Yeah, but it's maneuvering something, not necessarily lifting it. All that functional strength stuff.

02:55:56 Speaker_01
He would have those guys do 500 bodyweight squats every day. Every day. Oh, that's cool. So here's him back then. Oh, gosh. And a lot of it was like Hindu push-ups. Look how flexible he was for a big fucking giant dude.

02:56:12 Speaker_00
Yeah.

02:56:12 Speaker_01
Like super flexible. So they realized that You know like we were talking about technique is very important, but also strength.

02:56:20 Speaker_01
Yeah, look at the size of his fucking thighs dude look at the neck yeah, oh, and so he'd make these guys do these crazy wrestlers bridges and Look at how you could do that like support yourself and pull yourself back up like that so they kind of like in resist against necks yeah and

02:56:37 Speaker_01
So these guys would have these unbelievably grueling physical sessions and then they do their technique.

02:56:45 Speaker_00
Wow. So they would attempt to, I guess, be a pre-fatigue and say you'd love to do it?

02:56:51 Speaker_01
Well, also, you just had to be in phenomenal shape because in wrestling, you know, that's the first thing that goes. You must have ridiculous conditioning to be an elite wrestler. Look at the size of his fucking legs, dude.

02:57:03 Speaker_01
So Carl Gotch was just like super famous for this. He's in Japan here teaching these guys. Wow. And obviously this is black and white. It's just a long time ago.

02:57:13 Speaker_00
Yeah, have you ever seen the... Who is he training here?

02:57:16 Speaker_01
Does it say who he's working with? Inoki. That's Inoki! Oh, wow! Of course, Inoki who fought Muhammad Ali. Oh, okay, right. You ever see that fight? No. Oh, my God. It was like some crazy scam fight where Inoki just dropped to his back. Yeah, work his neck.

02:57:32 Speaker_01
So he's lifting him up with his neck.

02:57:33 Speaker_00
He's standing on his face, though, too. Yeah, man.

02:57:35 Speaker_01
Good job. Carl Gottsch didn't fuck around, dude.

02:57:37 Speaker_00
Yeah, that's obvious. That'll build your chin.

02:57:40 Speaker_01
So Inoki had this fight with Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali's trying to punch him and Inoki just goes to his back and kicks his legs. So he fucked Muhammad Ali's legs up. They were really fucked up for quite a while after that. Yeah.

02:57:55 Speaker_01
So this is what they did. He just kicked his knees and kicked his legs. And Ali's like, what the fuck? And it's in Japan, and they're paying him a ton of money to do it. So the referee has to separate him. And the referee is Judo Gene LaBelle. No way.

02:58:09 Speaker_01
Yeah, so Judo Gene LaBelle's the referee. And Inoki's just lying on his back kicking him. And he's kicking him with like roundhouse kicks, like look at this. So he's fucking Ali's legs up, man.

02:58:21 Speaker_01
When you're a guy who makes his living off of his footwork, which was Ali, like this was super dangerous. Look, he's getting him in a leg lock.

02:58:29 Speaker_00
So obviously this wasn't boxing.

02:58:30 Speaker_01
No, it was some weird hybrid fight that, you know, I think Ali just needed money and they talked him into doing this, but... Like those fights we get today?

02:58:38 Speaker_03
Is that sort of like what this was going on? These crazy exhibition real fights that are happening?

02:58:44 Speaker_01
Well, sort of, but this was real. Inoki was really trying to hurt him. He really did kick the shit out of his legs, and Ali really... See if you can find any articles on Ali's legs after the Inoki bout.

02:58:56 Speaker_01
I think he really fucked his legs up, because he didn't know how to check kicks, he didn't know what to even do, and all of a sudden this guy's on his back, roundhouse kicking his legs and stomping on his knees.

02:59:07 Speaker_01
Yeah, so who knows if his knees got hyperextended tours meniscus like who knows what the fuck happened there?

02:59:13 Speaker_00
Have you ever seen there's an old Polish documentary? That's them training in the 1970s, and they're doing all that kind of crazy stuff Throwing logs Where's the say that nearly ended Ollie's career Before I clicked on it it said it in the little mmm

02:59:35 Speaker_01
Finally the 15th round they called it a draw Wow Ali is bleeding from the legs.

02:59:41 Speaker_01
He gets an infection in his legs, and he almost has to have an amputation Holy shit extended stay in the hospital was the best-case scenario coming out of the fight Wow So Muhammad Ali suffering two blood clots and an infection in his leg from Enoki's vicious grounded kicks according to the sweet science Wow

03:00:05 Speaker_01
Wow when he finally did so look at this so he said he continued his tour of Asia despite this competing in exhibition matches in South Korea and the Philippines before returning to the United States When he finally did get back to the US Ali needed to stay in Los Angeles Hospital for multiple weeks To recover from injuries sustained in the Inoki fight.

03:00:24 Speaker_01
Holy shit, man. He put him on ice They were concerned Ali's injuries could even be life-threatening. Well, that's staph infection. I He was bleeding from the legs, got an infection in his legs, almost had to have an amputation.

03:00:37 Speaker_01
Bro, staph infections are fucking terrifying. Have you had one? Yeah. Yeah, I've had two. Twice, twice I've had staph.

03:00:43 Speaker_00
Not bad though. I had a blood clot. Caught it both times. I had a blood clot one time. I got jammed up, smoked my ankle, and I was like, didn't think much of it. Felt like just kind of weird, got hot, got swollen.

03:00:55 Speaker_00
I'm competing all over the world, and I'm like, yeah, this kind of feels weird. And the doctor's like, hey, man, you need to get that checked up. Of course, jumped back on a plane, went across the country.

03:01:04 Speaker_00
And they said that I had a blood clot from my knee to my hip.

03:01:07 Speaker_01
Oh, shit.

03:01:08 Speaker_00
Yeah. So it was blocking off the blood coming through the vein. Yeah, and my calf was giant. What do they do about that? I just started taking blood thinners and stuff, which was cool. But you can't get cut.

03:01:19 Speaker_00
Couldn't get cut, which is kind of funny, because I got on the blood thinners, and I had just pulled an alligator tag a couple days before. No. So I told the doctor, he's like, don't do anything that'll get you cut.

03:01:29 Speaker_00
I was like, well, I'm going alligator hunting tonight. And he's like, ha ha. And I was like, no, no, seriously. He's like, no, you'll bleed out if you get bit. And I'm like, yeah, but I probably won't bleed out.

03:01:37 Speaker_00
So I remember in the middle of the night in a swamp giving myself shots of whatever that stuff was in my stomach. Oh my God. I'm not very smart.

03:01:45 Speaker_01
How long do you have to take the blood thinners for before it dissolves?

03:01:47 Speaker_00
I took them home for about six to eight months. Whoa. Because I started on the shots and then I went to the Warfarin tabs and they had to keep checking me, keep checking me because they had to let it all break out.

03:01:59 Speaker_00
So I'd have to once a month get it ultrasounded. There's no better way?

03:02:04 Speaker_01
Can't they pull that out of there or something?

03:02:06 Speaker_00
Yeah, that's what I would have thought. Get some tweezers? You know. That's crazy. It's crazy. So I was at a Christmas party a couple months later, and my doctor saw me. And he was like, hey. And he had a couple beers in him. So he's like, hey.

03:02:18 Speaker_00
He's like, you're going to do, you or one of your descendants are going to do something special for this world. I'm like, what do you mean? And he was like, you know where that blood clot should have been? I go, where? And he just tapped me on the chest.

03:02:29 Speaker_00
He's like, right there. No way, you shouldn't have died on that one.

03:02:32 Speaker_00
I go really he goes you heated it you iced it you massaged it You flew you trained he goes you did everything if you were trying to commit suicide by blood clot for months He goes how it didn't travel.

03:02:44 Speaker_00
I have no idea Anybody but someone tells you that you're like Well, that's cool. I guess things are going to go awesome for a while. Or you just got lucky. Yeah. And then what happened, my lower leg basically, they said it grew another vein.

03:03:00 Speaker_00
So it grew a bypass around it.

03:03:03 Speaker_04
No.

03:03:03 Speaker_00
So all the swelling started going down. And they're like, yeah, one of your minimized veins or smaller veins actually grew in capacity and just worked its way around. They're like, the human body will do that.

03:03:15 Speaker_00
So it just worked its way around the bypass.

03:03:17 Speaker_01
What would have happened, though, if you didn't get that vein diluted with the blood thinners or that blood clot? Something had kicked loose.

03:03:24 Speaker_00
I mean, it was right at my hip. It doesn't go away? Your body doesn't absorb it ever?

03:03:27 Speaker_00
I mean, if the hematocrit or whatever, the blood, the thickness of the blood was still of that, if it ever broke loose, he was like, it would have gone to your heart or your head. That would have been a stroke or heart attack.

03:03:39 Speaker_00
And, you know, but it's weird, like, and it was just an ankle injury. Ankle. That's crazy. Smoked it, and it's like, oh, okay, you know, I'll be fine.

03:03:46 Speaker_00
Started walking it off, and what screwed me is the next day, it was all black and blue, the whole deal, right? I'm walking, walking, walking. Everything's not fine. It sucked. And I had to go on a business trip.

03:04:00 Speaker_00
And I was like, let me go check and make sure it's not, like, broken, that I have to get it, like, actually fixed. I went to the doctor, and they're like, hey, you got to immobilize this thing. And I'd been walking for a week.

03:04:11 Speaker_00
And so they wrapped it up and mobilized it. And I remember I was on a plane. I was sleeping. And it felt like someone lit a fire in my calf. And I was like, ah! What was that?

03:04:21 Speaker_00
And I went to my hotel room and I filled the trash can up with ice and I just dumped my leg in there to cool my leg down. And that was like in May. And I competed at the Hammer World Championships all the way to Labor Day.

03:04:33 Speaker_00
And I was in San Francisco and I'm like, something's weird. I pulled down my knee sleeve and one of the docs was there and he was like, what is going on with your leg? I'm like, I think I pulled a hamstring or something. He's like, Nah, you didn't.

03:04:47 Speaker_00
And so I came back, called my guy at South Carolina Sports Medicine, and he got me in right away. And he's like, dude, you got a big-ass blood clot. And like, you got to get this squared away now.

03:04:57 Speaker_01
Holy, imagine if he didn't do that.

03:04:58 Speaker_00
Imagine if you just- Just die. You'd just been like, hey, I'm- One day, you would have just died. I would have been a 30-year-old, really healthy guy that just keeled over. And so it's like, that kind of hits you.

03:05:09 Speaker_00
And that was honestly kind of the end of my competitive sports world. Because I started realizing, like, all I cared about was winning. And all I cared about was training and winning.

03:05:23 Speaker_00
forewent social relationships, being smart with my body and all this stuff, because I was like, no, I'm going to win worlds. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to be top, whatever. And it was just like, drive, drive, drive.

03:05:36 Speaker_00
And I was like, man, I didn't see this very obvious thing that could and should have killed me. It's like, I need to grow up. I need to refocus how I'm looking at these things.

03:05:46 Speaker_00
And so I had to mature and just like, OK, I've competed for 15 or 20 years or whatever it was at that point. It's like, maybe take a pump. Pump the brakes for a second and just go like,

03:05:57 Speaker_00
Am I making good choices for my family, good choices for my business, people that rely on me? Because if, you know, cool in all things, but if Burt just keels over, like, you know, that's not optimal for really anyone.

03:06:10 Speaker_01
It's interesting how you can get completely caught up in one goal to the point where you don't see anything else in life and you just miss out on a giant chunk of life. But if you want to be the best at something, It's kind of the trade-off.

03:06:24 Speaker_01
It's the Neil Brennan joke. That's the trade-off.

03:06:27 Speaker_00
Yeah. I've talked about the rabbit hole guy versus the 90% guy.

03:06:32 Speaker_00
And the 90% guy, which I think I've kind of turned into, if I train for something and get into something, I've generally found if I really care about it, I could be as good as 90% of the world at it. Like a lot of different things.

03:06:47 Speaker_01
Right.

03:06:48 Speaker_00
But if you're the guy that wants to go down there to be the best the goat you have to go down so far around the rabbit hole and forsake all other things.

03:06:56 Speaker_01
Yeah.

03:06:56 Speaker_00
To where you lose sight of of reality.

03:06:59 Speaker_01
By the way you could still not make it.

03:07:02 Speaker_00
And you could still not make it. Yeah, you could be in the same weight class as John Jones.

03:07:06 Speaker_01
Right. And you're just like, I picked the wrong hero to be alive, right? Yeah. There's Mike Tyson, 1986. Whoops. So you want to be a heavyweight boxer. Oh, no.

03:07:15 Speaker_00
Yeah. You're Tyrell Biggs. That's the weird part. It's like you could be the rabbit hole guy and go so far down and lose sight of life and still be the number three guy ever. Yeah.

03:07:26 Speaker_00
And, you know, I kind of like use like the Yoda, like the Dagobah forest, like that's where people went to get all the force. Like they don't write books about the 90 percent guy.

03:07:34 Speaker_01
Right.

03:07:35 Speaker_00
They write books about the weirdo that lived in the forest. There's a little green man that knew the force. However, though, that guy might be miserable, might be miserable. Yeah. And I've seen it a lot.

03:07:45 Speaker_01
Yeah. You've got to know when to stop.

03:07:48 Speaker_00
It gets fun to do in the beginning, but you got to know when to stop. I mean, I would say you're probably as good or better than 90 plus percent of the human population at fighting. Probably. Probably, yeah.

03:07:59 Speaker_00
You're probably better at 90% of the human population at shooting a bow. Probably.

03:08:05 Speaker_01
Yeah, probably.

03:08:06 Speaker_00
Right.

03:08:06 Speaker_01
And so you start looking at things, you're like, oh, the things that are really... Yeah, but if you want to be Levi Morgan, there's a long road. It's a long road.

03:08:11 Speaker_00
It's a long road.

03:08:12 Speaker_01
Yeah. Long ass road. And like, if you want to beat Gordon Ryan, you're probably never going to catch him because he's already still doing it.

03:08:18 Speaker_00
Yeah, and he's not doing archery, and he's not doing a podcast, and he's not doing a thing. Exactly. And then so I've had to kind of went to this thing.

03:08:26 Speaker_00
I was like, do I want to be a 90% guy that enjoys semi-balance in my life and is really passionate about three or four or five things and be really, really good, or do I want to throw all my chips in And the probability is I won't be the GOAT.

03:08:42 Speaker_01
Right. Especially if it's a competitive thing. Right. Where it gets real tricky with some people is if maybe it's a thing that's not a competitive thing, and you can keep doing it. Yes.

03:08:52 Speaker_01
Like, my friend Gary Clark Jr., when he records albums, he goes crazy. And he locks himself in the studio, and he's there for, like, fucking 12 hours, like, every day. And it drives his family nuts. He's just, like, constantly working on his music.

03:09:06 Speaker_01
Because to him, like, He wants to be all in. Yes. Like that's what that's where he lives. That's where he creates this great music when he's all in. And you could sacrifice all the other things in your life. You're not going to work out.

03:09:20 Speaker_01
You're not going to go on trips. You're not going to. All you're doing is just whatever that thing. Maybe it's painting, whatever. Maybe it's writing books, whatever it is, you're all in. And although it's beautiful, I don't know if I'm that guy.

03:09:33 Speaker_01
You don't have to be. I had to look at myself. If you're looking at the universe, if you look at the greater picture of everything, it's not really important what you do here in this life. But for you it is.

03:09:49 Speaker_01
And the problem is if you're compelled to try to be number one and you don't really chase it You're always gonna have that thing in the back of your head. I never really went for it Yes, at least you went for it for a long time.

03:10:02 Speaker_01
And that's the thing like that I think is the best way go for something and then but know when to stop that's where it was Yeah, don't be a 70 year old dude out there in the Olympics throwing a hammer Please don't

03:10:15 Speaker_00
No, he was the oldest guy who ever threw the hammer. Oh, gosh. Well, actually, one of my mentors, Judd Logan. So this dude made four Olympic teams and the hammer, and then got out of it. And he was a coach. And then every time that he would hit a

03:10:31 Speaker_00
50 year 55 year 60 year he would train for three or four months break the all-time world record in that way in that age class and he would go off again for five years good Lord and he would just come back and he would do it again and just shatter the world record and they would come back and he'd do it and he just did that up until Pretty much when he when he passed did he keep training the entire time?

03:10:49 Speaker_01
Like how did he be able to come back?

03:10:51 Speaker_00
He was very genetically gifted and he would he would just he was a coach. He was always doing it around

03:11:01 Speaker_00
And all of his kids would come out of his guys he coached and I mean he was just a gosh Like when he was like 70 how far away was he from guys who were 30?

03:11:11 Speaker_00
He knocked me out of the Olympic trial finals in 2004 and he was 40 Gosh, he was probably 45 46 years. He was like a little bit younger than me now, but I was 27 and and in my prime. Wow. And that would have been his sixth Olympic trials.

03:11:33 Speaker_00
And you're just like, but it's Judd, right? He's a mythical Bill Braske creature. He's Judd. And you're just like, dang it. Judd's going to figure out a way to figure out a way. So how many age class world records did he hold?

03:11:48 Speaker_00
He went 50, 55, and 60, and then he passed away a couple years ago. Actually, he had cancer, and then he had some COVID complications. It sucked, man.

03:11:58 Speaker_00
I mean, you talk about a guy that's just that statuesque, best conversationalist, poured into all these kids and stuff. And you're just like, he's the coach you always wanted to have. And you're just like, ah. Things happen.

03:12:14 Speaker_01
It's interesting when you watch the way different people live their life, because you could see benefits and you could see where it would be a detriment to the rest of your life.

03:12:23 Speaker_01
And it allows us to look through these mythical creatures like that guy, these John Jones type characters, these Carl Gotches and go, but is that what I want to do?

03:12:32 Speaker_00
Correct.

03:12:34 Speaker_01
You should know what you want to do. Don't get tricked into doing something you don't want to do, because there's people out there that really want to do that. And if you don't really want to do that, you're never going to beat them anyway.

03:12:43 Speaker_00
Ever. You're already most likely not going to.

03:12:47 Speaker_01
Already most likely not going to, but if you're not really sure, you're fucked.

03:12:50 Speaker_00
You're dead in the water.

03:12:52 Speaker_01
You got one foot in, guess what bitch, that foot's gonna be snatched up by a crocodile.

03:12:57 Speaker_00
One foot in the grave and one in a roller skate.

03:12:59 Speaker_01
Yeah, you can't compete with a really obsessed, talented person if you're not really obsessed and talented.

03:13:05 Speaker_00
And the weird part is, is when you look at yourself and kind of question that. Like, am I a 90% guy? And some people aren't either. Some people are like, I don't care what happens, man. I'd be average. And that just sounds horrible, right?

03:13:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, that doesn't sound like you're going to get anywhere. And you're not going to be interesting.

03:13:20 Speaker_00
Not in the least.

03:13:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's the problem. Like, you're not going to attract other interesting people, because they're not going to want to be around you.

03:13:26 Speaker_00
Right. And the biggest part. Unless you're really funny. Well, that's helpful. Yeah. The biggest part about being interesting is being interested. Right. You know? Ask a lot of questions. Be interested is crap.

03:13:35 Speaker_00
Like, that's where I think one of your superpowers, besides you have a steel trap for a brain, you've recalled things that we've talked about. Like, I was like, I didn't know he was listening to that. That was pretty impressive.

03:13:47 Speaker_00
but The thing is when you come to that like am I a rabbit hole guy am I 90% guy in my opinion?

03:13:55 Speaker_00
Those are the only two choices like the other ones to screw those But when you kind of like really look at like have you ever seen like where your line really is? my line your line like when

03:14:07 Speaker_00
Like you're like, I will go this far, but that's as far as I'll go, like down that rabbit hole to whatever that is or whatever stressor or whatever that may be. It's weird. I hadn't done it. And in recent, like, I had an experience.

03:14:23 Speaker_00
It was like, OK, there's my life. OK, that's that's what did you do? I was in Africa and and and I was hunting Cape Buffalo, which is the most dangerous thing that kills a rifle rifle. But still, it is one of those things.

03:14:37 Speaker_00
You get in there close and go with the boat.

03:14:39 Speaker_01
You could die.

03:14:40 Speaker_00
You die. It was pretty hairy. It kills more people than everyone. What do they taste like? They're actually awesome. We did the interloins that night in Namibia. It was fantastic.

03:14:49 Speaker_00
And the cool part about that is we donated the meat to the local village, and they were super stoked. The wild part is after we gutted it, there's like 400 pounds of guts on a buffalo.

03:15:01 Speaker_00
And I'm like, are y'all gonna like truck this out to the desert or out to the place and like let the hyenas? And they're like, no, the villagers are taking it. I was like, the guts. And they said, yeah, no, like there will be a party tonight.

03:15:13 Speaker_00
No, no running water, hearts, lungs, liver, stomach, you know, guts. And they go, they will be so excited to get that. And so that was a, for me, I go, oh, we think we understand poverty. We think we understand in this country, like,

03:15:29 Speaker_00
What not having we're like, oh, yeah, I didn't have a whatever like no this village is stoked to get 400 pounds of guts off a cape buffalo That's been laying in the woods dead for the last 10 hours Really they were pumped old guts old guts old hot guts and

03:15:48 Speaker_00
We put a tarp over it so before we could get back out there to get the bull out of the, you know, out of the jungle or whatever it would be called. So, so it didn't get super hot, but shuck a big black 2000 pound animal.

03:15:59 Speaker_01
What are they doing with the guts? How are they eating it?

03:16:01 Speaker_00
They said they'll, they'll wash out all the fluids or all the guts, shit and everything else. And they'll put it on the grill and fry it and do all this. Like they said, protein does not go to waste in Africa at all. So I'm like you guys are good.

03:16:13 Speaker_00
Of course eat a heart, but they're like, yeah, they're eating heart lungs liver Kidneys like anything like what does lungs taste like? Boy, I don't know.

03:16:22 Speaker_01
I don't know if I want to know I've always thought about it Yeah, yeah, because like when you yeah open up an elk you look at it like can you eat this? Like what does this taste like you eating heart?

03:16:30 Speaker_00
I'm sure. Yeah.

03:16:32 Speaker_01
Oh, I love heart. Yeah long. I mean liver other I eat the liver and I eat the heart. Yeah, but you know, it seems like lungs or no, but I've never heard anybody and

03:16:42 Speaker_00
And then stomach and stomach line. I guess that's what what haggis is, right?

03:16:46 Speaker_01
Yeah haggis lungs and you know, I know a lot of guys do they take the call fat from yeah And then they chop up meat and then they'll wrap it in the call fat and put it on the grill Rinella did that?

03:16:57 Speaker_00
Yeah, that looked really did look real good season it and then wrap it in call fat and then slice it open we ate inner loins and they were really good, but they were talking about how the the villagers out there they're like, yeah all this meat that these hunters get like it all goes and

03:17:11 Speaker_00
The village is something people understand like how much that changes the game.

03:17:15 Speaker_01
So when you say your line, what did you mean by that?

03:17:17 Speaker_00
Well, they had another another opportunity to do a lion hunt That was my line it was like yeah for multiple reasons well, first of all, you're not gonna eat it right you could I mean I know dudes you eat mountain lion delicious

03:17:33 Speaker_01
Mountain lion is actually really good according to everybody that I know that's eating it. They're not lying Yeah, there's people that are iffy on bear.

03:17:41 Speaker_00
I enjoy bear the rivets.

03:17:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, they know how to cook bears Yeah, but the reality of lion is I don't think anybody's out there eating African.

03:17:49 Speaker_00
Yeah, I right and they're just a multitude. I mean they're Big, I mean, I got nothing against a lion to start with. They're too cool. They're cool, but they're big, they're scary, they hide really well, they're really fast. They're dope.

03:18:02 Speaker_00
There's a lot of stuff.

03:18:02 Speaker_01
If they didn't exist, you'd be pumped. If somebody put one of those in a movie, you'd be like, what a cool, awesome animal, you know?

03:18:09 Speaker_00
So it's just like, OK. For a multitude of reasons, I'm a hunter guy. It's like, OK, not that one. OK. And then not this. And then you start looking at even training. You're like, hey, I'll do this, but I won't do that. Right.

03:18:21 Speaker_00
I don't want to shoot anything I'm not going to eat.

03:18:23 Speaker_01
I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in going to hunt something that's inedible. I just don't get it. I get how people want to do it, but I feel like the same about fishing. I kind of want to catch stuff that you can't eat.

03:18:34 Speaker_00
Yeah, you fish a good bit, don't you? Yeah, I love fishing.

03:18:36 Speaker_01
What's your favorite thing to fish?

03:18:39 Speaker_01
I mean if I really had the time and I don't it would be like salmon fishing in a river That's some of the most fun because they're so big and they're so strong and the way they jump And there's something about rivers like oceans cool.

03:18:54 Speaker_01
I love ocean fishing, but it's like less personal There's something about being on a small boat on a river and you hook a salmon

03:19:03 Speaker_01
You see it jump like my friend Ari and I we went up to Anchorage a few years back and we did a show we did some salmon fishing it was really fun and then I've done a lot of trout fishing I Love bass fishing. Yeah bass fishing is always fun topwater.

03:19:20 Speaker_00
Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah in late summer watch them smash that that's the best big frog It's fun Yeah, have you ever done a, probably would be a bad idea for you, but I put a green light under my dock in my house. Oh, wow. Dude. Cheat code.

03:19:38 Speaker_01
Oh, and they all come to it.

03:19:39 Speaker_00
It's the coolest thing. Oh, yeah. In the spring, and February through March, April, and then right now they're happening again, the striped bass will school under it. Oh, whoa. And it's like, you're catching four to 15 pound fish every night.

03:19:55 Speaker_00
Oh, that's awesome. Every night. And so I'll sit up at the house and I'll, uh, yeah, no, seriously. So I'll be with the wife and she will have a glass of wine. I was like, all right, we'll go to bed. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go fish.

03:20:05 Speaker_00
She's like, you're going fishing now. I said, I'll be back. Don't worry. And cause you only get like two or three casts before they blow off the light, but you're going to catch two or three fish every night on the first two or three casts.

03:20:15 Speaker_01
Oh, wow.

03:20:15 Speaker_00
Which is awesome.

03:20:16 Speaker_01
Well, it's a great way to get food.

03:20:17 Speaker_00
Yeah. So you go catch a seven or eight pound striper, gut him, throw him in ice, and then do it. So I would literally fish, catch my two or three fish, and sometimes I got him when I was fly fishing for him.

03:20:27 Speaker_00
So you catch like a 10 pound striper on a fly rod, which is badass.

03:20:31 Speaker_01
Dude, I went to Mexico once, and we went mahi-mahi fishing, and then they cooked it within an hour of us catching it. I was like, oh my God, this is so much better than any fish I've ever had before.

03:20:43 Speaker_01
And then you realize that the more time it waits after it's dead, it goes to the supermarket, sits on a shelf, you lose all that.

03:20:50 Speaker_00
You lose it.

03:20:50 Speaker_01
The flavor of them right when they pull up, I'm like, this is the best fish I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. It was so delicious.

03:20:57 Speaker_00
Yeah. Yeah, that's the best. You need to get one of those green lights on your dock. Sounds like fun. Oh, man. Deep Glow is the one. Yeah. I'll send you the link for it. OK. It's super easy to do. And mine kicks on right before dark. Oh, nice.

03:21:13 Speaker_00
Or if you get up early, because they have the longest time to school on it. So everything's silent. You go out there and smash a couple, sun comes up. It's great. Oh, that's a good move. And then with the kids, too. Right.

03:21:24 Speaker_00
It makes you actually a bad fisherman, because after that, you're just like, I don't feel like going out like I'll just catch him tonight right and then everyone starts like marking your spots It's like the guys out here that hunt over deer feeders.

03:21:35 Speaker_01
Yeah.

03:21:36 Speaker_00
Yeah, it works.

03:21:37 Speaker_01
It does work It works, but they'll tell you it's like well we hunt but yeah, it's kind of like farming.

03:21:44 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's fun Yeah, it's just different.

03:21:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's not elk. No, it's definitely you're sitting down the whole day waiting eating chips

03:21:53 Speaker_00
It's good. It's a good time to check it catch up with emails. Talk to your friends.

03:21:57 Speaker_01
Yeah. Yeah. That's there's a lot of that like the ground blind guys like to sit in ground blinds all day. It's a totally different.

03:22:04 Speaker_00
I did it this morning. Yeah. It's fun. I did it. Yeah. I enjoyed it as all this fantastic. It's a great way to pig hunt. Oh yeah. You know stuck one two nights ago.

03:22:13 Speaker_01
The thing about pigs out here too is like they actually have to hunt them.

03:22:17 Speaker_00
Yes.

03:22:17 Speaker_01
It's like you're actually doing a service to the environment by getting food.

03:22:21 Speaker_00
Yeah.

03:22:22 Speaker_01
And if you get a good butcher that can turn that into sausage, it's fucking fantastic.

03:22:26 Speaker_00
Yeah. Actually, my little boy, he killed his first pig last week. He's eight years old. What was it like when you ate it? It was awesome. We did it for Thanksgiving. And he's like, wow. He's so super cool. So we yanked the back straps out.

03:22:38 Speaker_00
I marinated in Coke for like 36 hours. Coca-Cola? Coca-Cola. Really? Yeah, I kind of broke it down. I learned that from Jen Rivett. So she would do bear with like Dr. Pepper.

03:22:51 Speaker_01
No kidding. Yeah.

03:22:52 Speaker_00
Oh, they know how to cook some bears up there. Yeah, you know that work. So we did that and then made kind of like butter and all this kind of cool kind of drizzly deal, wrapped it in bacon, wrapped pork in bacon, and then put it on the grill.

03:23:07 Speaker_00
It was freaking awesome.

03:23:08 Speaker_01
Do you know that guy? He's a cook. He's on YouTube. What is it? His name Guga. G-U-G-A. Guga Foods. He's always cooking steak, like different ways to cook steak. But the other way he did it the other day was he marinated it in buttermilk for like a week.

03:23:24 Speaker_01
What? Yeah, took a steak, marinated in buttermilk for a week. And like when he pulled the steak out, you could see like the buttermilk was breaking the steak down. That's at Guga Foods. That dude. See if you can find his buttermilk steak one.

03:23:37 Speaker_01
Always get in coca-cola. This guy is every human way possible to cook a steak. This guy's done it I am a reverse your guy same. Yeah, I got taught that by Chad from whiskey bent barbecue

03:23:57 Speaker_01
He says that the best way, particularly for Wild Game, without a doubt it's the best way for Wild Game, take it, so here it is with buttermilk.

03:24:05 Speaker_01
So he did it, one for 24 hours, and he did one of them where he sat in the buttermilk for a week and he said it was sensational.

03:24:13 Speaker_00
Maybe you want to try it. Look at that. Yeah, buttermilk. We do that with ducks afterwards and it pulls out a lot of stuff out there.

03:24:21 Speaker_01
That's awesome. This guy knows how to cook some fucking steak. Yeah, let's do it. My way is I like to use either a Traeger or the best way, honestly, if I have the time, is I use an offset grill with actual hardwood.

03:24:34 Speaker_01
Sure, so I'll cook you know get some live oak in there, and I'll get it up to about 250 degrees And then I'll put the steaks in there with meat meter thermometers, and I get it internally up to about 120 yeah, and then either I sear it on a cast-iron pan or I also have one of those Infrared yeah things what are those called again?

03:24:56 Speaker_01
Fuck, they sent it to me. I should shout them out. I know who Sean Baker uses them all the time, but it's like a tray. Sean's awesome. Yeah, he's great. And it runs on gas. And so you just slide it in there and it's like an overhead grill.

03:25:12 Speaker_01
What is it called? Auto Wild Grill.

03:25:14 Speaker_00
That's it.

03:25:14 Speaker_01
Auto Wild Grill.

03:25:16 Speaker_00
How about Sean being a freak for eating a bunch of meat and being a giant?

03:25:20 Speaker_01
70 years old. He's fucking throwing insane weight around. No TRT. No nothing.

03:25:26 Speaker_00
Box squats. I remember him from the throws days. Oh, do you really? Yeah, we used to compete.

03:25:29 Speaker_01
He's a big fucking dude, man. He's a monster. And he's very smart, you know?

03:25:33 Speaker_00
He is.

03:25:33 Speaker_01
And anybody who says you can't only eat meat, you need to pay attention to him because that's all he eats. And he looks super fucking healthy. And he's doing jujitsu and training and, you know, he's older than me.

03:25:44 Speaker_00
Yeah, he spoke at SummerStrong last year and came in and then he was deadlifting with everyone. He pulled like a six-something deadlift and then like 400 for 25 reps or something like that. And he's just like, hey, I'm going to go have another steak.

03:25:56 Speaker_00
And got me kind of on it.

03:25:58 Speaker_01
He eats steaks all day long. That's all he eats. He doesn't even take vitamins, I don't think.

03:26:03 Speaker_00
I know you've done carnivore. I actually called Sean about it because I was like, all right, I need to give this a whirl. It's worth it. It's worth doing. Yeah.

03:26:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's legit. Yeah, I mean, I don't do it all the time. I'll eat pasta if I feel like it. I'll have vegetables if I feel like it. But I would say 90% of my food is meat. Meat or eggs.

03:26:25 Speaker_00
Meat or eggs, yeah.

03:26:26 Speaker_01
I think that's the most nutrient-dense food. My body reacts better. When I'm not running on carbohydrates, I'm running on ketones. Or when your body processes protein and turns it into glucose, which is like just more regulated for me.

03:26:41 Speaker_01
You do whatever you want. But I would say try it. If you're a person that eats meat, I would say give it a shot. Just give it a month. One month. I did one time I lost 12 pounds. I felt fucking great. I had all this energy.

03:26:52 Speaker_01
And I was like, oh, OK, I'm poisoning myself. I'm limiting my performance, at least my mental performance.

03:26:59 Speaker_00
Right. Yeah, I started getting on it a month or two ago, just a bit. I was like, yeah, give it a shot. I was eating a ton of venison. But gosh, I love blackberries blackberries and cottage cheese.

03:27:09 Speaker_00
I think are like the weirdest thing that I just I could eat it I don't think there's anything wrong with fruit.

03:27:14 Speaker_01
Yeah, no, that's like I eat fruit So what Paul does is he incorporates fruit honey and raw dairy with me? Okay, and then Sean just eats meat, you know, but I I can't imagine an argument where fruit's bad for you. I would say don't eat all the fruit.

03:27:31 Speaker_01
Right.

03:27:32 Speaker_00
That's the problem.

03:27:33 Speaker_01
Have a couple oranges or have a couple bananas or a bowl of blueberries with some yogurt. Why is that bad? It can't be bad. It can't be bad, right? No. They're good for you. They're filled with vitamins. They taste good.

03:27:44 Speaker_01
It's also enjoyable to eat a piece of melon. It tastes good. It's fun. Again, I'm not trying to be the goat at not eating blueberries. I think the number one thing is don't eat bullshit.

03:27:56 Speaker_01
And when you go on a carnivore diet, you are automatically cutting out a lot of bullshit. You're cutting out a lot of like enriched wheat and processed fucking grains and all this bullshit. And you're cutting out pesticides that might be on your shit.

03:28:10 Speaker_01
There's a lot of things you're cutting out when you're just eating steak. Yeah, yeah.

03:28:15 Speaker_00
Do you eat a lot of whitetail or no?

03:28:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, if I get one. Sure.

03:28:20 Speaker_00
I have one in the freezer now. You're a 19 elk a year. Yeah, I do.

03:28:24 Speaker_01
But I got two whitetails last year, too.

03:28:27 Speaker_00
That's awesome.

03:28:27 Speaker_01
I turned them into sausages, and I cooked the back straps and butter and garlic. Back straps and butter and garlic, that's one that a lot of times I just like to cook on a cast iron pan.

03:28:40 Speaker_00
Yes.

03:28:40 Speaker_01
Especially whitetail. There's something about whitetail tenderloins with butter and garlic. That is hard to beat.

03:28:48 Speaker_00
That's my kids' favorite food.

03:28:50 Speaker_01
So hard to beat.

03:28:51 Speaker_00
Yeah. A little salt, garlic, butter. Cracked pepper. Oh. So stupid good. Oh my god. So good. My son and I will eat easily a full loin.

03:29:01 Speaker_01
And you feel fantastic. It's unbelievable. You feel the vitamins in the meat. You know, that's what an animal is supposed to make you feel like when you eat it.

03:29:10 Speaker_00
Whitetail gets a bad name, so just a whitetail. Whitetails are great. People are silly. Yeah, they are.

03:29:16 Speaker_01
People are so silly when it comes to... I know people who don't even eat their elk. They donate their elk. What? They go elk hunting and then they donate it to the church. That's a lot of work for... They just like to hunt.

03:29:25 Speaker_01
Which, I mean, I guess it's okay because you're providing people with free food and it doesn't go to waste. It's the best food in the world, and you're not eating it? Yeah, the best. That seems so crazy to me. Yeah, yeah. You know?

03:29:37 Speaker_01
I cook up, every week, I cook up a bunch of elk meat in a bunch of different ways, and then I have it in the fridge. So that's my meal prep for the week. I saw that. Do you eat it cold? Cold with hot sauce.

03:29:47 Speaker_00
Is that the move?

03:29:47 Speaker_01
That's what I like to do. I like to take a plate, put some meat on there, dump some hot sauce on the plate, and just dip it in the hot sauce and eat it cold.

03:29:55 Speaker_00
Any good hot sauce? Any specific?

03:29:57 Speaker_01
Well, I like it hot. I actually have my own little collaboration that I did with Senor Lechuga.

03:30:03 Speaker_00
Oh, I saw that, yeah, yeah.

03:30:04 Speaker_01
It's three different hot sauces. One of them comes from my friend Andrew at Half Face Blades. He had one, it was so good that I said, can I include that one?

03:30:12 Speaker_00
I remember that.

03:30:12 Speaker_01
Because I'm doing a collaboration, we made an agreement. So it's like it has the Half Face Blades logo on it as well. That's with sun-dried peppers. I saw that. I'll tell you what all the stuff is. Go to the Senor Lechuga site.

03:30:26 Speaker_00
I made my son, I got Andy to make me a half-face blade for me, my dad, and my two boys, so they're all matching. Oh, nice. And the goal of it was you either carry your dad's, your son's, or your brother's knife, so we all switch. Oh, that's cool.

03:30:38 Speaker_00
And I cut my son, who's eight years old now, I cut his umbilical cord with his knife. Which is yeah, which is weird. I said that that's heavy. Yeah, it was awesome I rubbed his first drop of blood into the handle give him that knife.

03:30:50 Speaker_01
So heirloom tomatoes winter truffle and Reaper now we're talking Yeah, that's Andy's and that one fucking rules, but the other ones rule to the habanera urfa chili paprika That's a fucking banger and but these are hot hot can I buy these now senor lechuga calm sweet senor lechuga hot sauce awesome

03:31:11 Speaker_01
Have you ever done a deer leg?

03:31:12 Speaker_00
It's hot.

03:31:13 Speaker_01
If you can't. I'm not like a hot, hot. I'm like a tasty, not hot. It's tasty, but it's going to fuck you up if you're not ready. Is it like that? Yeah, it's real. That guy makes hot sauce. It's got reapers in it. It's legit. It kicks your ass. I sweat.

03:31:31 Speaker_01
My kids make fun of me because I'm bald, so when I sweat, it's just pouring down my face. They're like, what is wrong with you? It's like, I'm a sweater.

03:31:39 Speaker_00
Have you ever done a deer leg like the flip-flop style you ever seen the What do you mean Andy flip-flop guy? I have to cook it for you sometime so badass So you get a deer leg with a shank still on it.

03:31:50 Speaker_00
Mm-hmm super hot grill Put it on the coals like well the grills like it's hot as shit. Okay 1100 degrees like cooking right blasted so he has a special sauce and his Granddad I believe started it. It's a special sauce.

03:32:05 Speaker_00
That's like The way to flip flip flop. Yeah best way to grill venison. All right, let me see what you got. Yeah, so you basically get this sauce you mix it with

03:32:18 Speaker_00
You mix it with wine, you paint it with a rosemary brush, you salt and pepper it, and then you flip it, you just put it down on the grill. 30 seconds. While you're cooking that side, you're painting the other side, salt and peppering it.

03:32:33 Speaker_00
You flip it, you shave the first quarter inch. And so the long as it takes you to shave the first quarter inch, repaint it, re-salt and pepper it, and then you flip it.

03:32:43 Speaker_00
And so when you're in it, you're going to consume an entire deer leg in the next hour and a half, and you're in it.

03:32:49 Speaker_01
Oh, you know what that's like?

03:32:50 Speaker_00
It's so freaking good.

03:32:50 Speaker_01
That's like Brazilian steakhouses.

03:32:52 Speaker_00
Yeah, exactly. Like a Chuhas Correa. But it just boom, boom, boom, boom. So we'll do it at parties, and you get a couple dudes, you get your boys, and you're all drinking some bourbon.

03:33:00 Speaker_01
Oh, look at that. And just slicing pieces off.

03:33:03 Speaker_00
That looks so good, man. That looks sensational. It's ridiculous. Oh my God. He taught me how to do it. I've actually gone to a couple events and like helped him out, but I've cooked him at birthday parties.

03:33:12 Speaker_01
Oh, that's a great idea.

03:33:14 Speaker_00
It's so dope.

03:33:16 Speaker_01
You know what I'm going to do? I'm supposed to hunt with Ranella in March.

03:33:21 Speaker_00
Maybe we'll try that. Yeah. If you want me to know I'll frickin cook one for you.

03:33:25 Speaker_01
I'm sure you could do that with any other wild game too.

03:33:27 Speaker_00
Yeah we've done it with sheep we've done elk is kind of a monster. Well it's such a big leg.

03:33:31 Speaker_01
Yeah.

03:33:32 Speaker_00
But if you have a smaller sort of. That is that's the that's the move and now you'll paint it. And then you'll salt pepper in it, big ass knife like that so you don't burn your knuckles. That looks fucking great. It's insane.

03:33:43 Speaker_00
And what is in the sauce again? He won't tell me exactly, but it's... What the fuck? Come on Andy, get with it. He won't tell you? What kind of bullshit is that?

03:33:52 Speaker_01
It has all kinds of... So there it is. Two bottles of private reserve, our flagship sauce. Oh, it's the sauce. Well, it's the sauce, yeah. Won't tell you what's in the sauce.

03:34:02 Speaker_01
One bottle of red wine, Cabernet or Zinfandel will work, depending on if you're non-binary. Salt and pepper to taste, one quarter cup to one half bottle of rosemary-infused olive oil. Boy, that's a big gap. Quarter cup to a half bottle.

03:34:16 Speaker_01
It's like a glug, glug, glug when you drink bourbon. Three to four loaves of French bread, several sprigs of fresh rosemary.

03:34:22 Speaker_00
It's awesome.

03:34:23 Speaker_01
Sounds pretty fucking good. Dude, it's... Bro, I think we did like three hours and 20 minutes.

03:34:27 Speaker_00
How long have we done? Up? More? Three and a half? Three-thirds? Let's know Evan Hafer, but... Dude, time just flew by. That's super fun.

03:34:35 Speaker_01
It was a lot of fun, man. A lot of fun. Thanks for your awesome equipment, too. Thanks. I should tell everybody, you outfitted my gym at home. It's fucking incredible. Thanks, man. Keeps me from going nuts. It's the best. I love all your equipment.

03:34:46 Speaker_01
It's fucking so fantastic You know what I use like almost every day. Is that Franken hyper? Yeah, that thing is so versatile feeling better Oh, it's so great. It's such a good device because you can do reverse hypers.

03:34:58 Speaker_01
You can do back extensions You could do sit-ups off of it.

03:35:02 Speaker_00
You do so many different things off of it. I have a new module coming We're relaunching it. So if you want bring your old one here and I'll put the new one in your house What are you gonna do? What is the it has some?

03:35:12 Speaker_00
Some assisted and resisted abilities so you could do some some if you're not quite as strong or come back return to play So there's some different stuff that you could do with it.

03:35:21 Speaker_01
Okay. Well, you're very innovative man. Your stuff is really cool And you you've also outfitted the whole UFC PI Center go there. It's all sort of shit It's cool. We're trying man. Whenever I go to a gym and I see sore necks makes me feel happy. I

03:35:36 Speaker_00
It's cool. I appreciate it. I'll be honest, it makes me feel really happy when I see you wear Sorenx shirts. It's like, man, that's dope. I appreciate that. My pleasure, brother.

03:35:43 Speaker_01
Thank you. All right. Website? Sorenx.com? Sorenx.com.

03:35:49 Speaker_00
There it is. It's the UFC PI.

03:35:50 Speaker_01
That's all Sorenx equipment. Social media? What's your Instagram? I'm Bert Soren. All right. And there's the new machine, the X-Factor, that we just got today here at the studio. All right. My brother. Thank you very much. Thank you, Joe. Appreciate you.

03:36:04 Speaker_01
All right. Bye, everybody.