#2230 - Evan Hafer AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast The Joe Rogan Experience

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Episode: #2230 - Evan Hafer

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 04:33:27

Episode Shownotes

Evan Hafer is a Special Forces veteran, founder/CEO of Black Rifle Coffee Company, and one of the hosts of the "Black Rifle Coffee Podcast.

"

https://www.blackriflecoffee.com https://www.youtube.com/@BlackRifleCoffeePodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary

In this episode of 'The Joe Rogan Experience', Evan Hafer, founder of Black Rifle Coffee Company and Special Forces veteran, shares insights from his military experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq, including the challenges of cultural adjustments and the psychological impact of war. He delves into critical issues such as the veteran suicide epidemic, the effectiveness of alternative treatments like Ibogaine for mental health, and the disconnected decision-making process by political leaders regarding military interventions. Hafer's candid reflections highlight the complex interplay of combat experiences, cultural exploitation, and the importance of accountability in addressing the needs of veterans and the implications of U.S. foreign policy.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (#2230 - Evan Hafer) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_04
The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:12 Speaker_10
Well, brother, good to see you again. Good to see you. So this conversation was, well, anytime you want to come on, I'm always happy to talk to you. But this conversation was birthed out of that crazy conversation we had in elk hunting camp. Which one?

00:00:26 Speaker_10
Well, yeah, we had quite a few of them where you just You will open up my eyes to so many things. First of all, I never understood the extent of the man fuckery in Afghanistan.

00:00:41 Speaker_09
Oh.

00:00:41 Speaker_10
When we were talking, remember we were hanging out in front of the trucks and you were telling me about mumbles?

00:00:45 Speaker_09
Yeah.

00:00:46 Speaker_10
There's a few conversations I've had with friends that for the rest of my life, now things are different. Like now I look at, that one conversation, that one hour conversation we had, like, okay, the world's different now.

00:01:01 Speaker_03
I, you know, I always assume people have heard these stories from Afghanistan.

00:01:05 Speaker_07
Cheers. Yeah. Cheers. You gotta drink that. Oh, yeah. Cheers. Sorry, you can't. Buffalo trace.

00:01:13 Speaker_03
Hmm. So, yeah. The amount of man-on-man buggery in Afghanistan is significant.

00:01:22 Speaker_10
Did they warn you about it before you went over there?

00:01:24 Speaker_03
No. No, I think there were so many different things about both Iraq and Afghanistan that the learning curve for all of us was so high. Culturally, you don't think about a lot of those things. You just don't. You just, you know, you grow up in America.

00:01:41 Speaker_07
Right.

00:01:42 Speaker_03
You assume everybody every man is basically like an American male because that's at 26 or 27 years old You know that there are cultural differences for sure but I'm telling you I was in Kuwait for like the first time early on and

00:02:02 Speaker_03
The Kuwaitis like to hold hands, like the dudes like to hold hands. And that's not comfortable, like for guys. Isn't that weird though? Because we do shake hands. Yeah. You know what I mean? But you don't walk around holding another man's hand.

00:02:16 Speaker_03
It's just not comfortable in any scenario.

00:02:18 Speaker_10
But imagine trying to explain that to someone who didn't understand, like, what makes it gay. Like, at what point in time does, like, holding onto a hand, does it get... You know, like, there's, like, a meter.

00:02:28 Speaker_10
Like, you can kind of, like, hold onto a hot potato for a couple seconds, and then it'll burn your hand.

00:02:33 Speaker_03
After a certain point... You're walking around holding another man's hand, and you've never really done it probably since you were a kid Maybe holding your dad's hand right like three or four years old and in special forces.

00:02:45 Speaker_03
They tell you you know you have to Work with the cultural differences, and they're just talking in general right like right there. They're not specific because they don't know where you're going and

00:02:58 Speaker_03
You're gonna have to work by with and through the host indigenous force So you have to accept some of the things that the cultural differences and just go with the flow, right?

00:03:07 Speaker_03
So as a new Green Beret, you know as you know SF guys You're just walking around holding another man's hand. You're so freaked out about it. You're like, oh man Oh, man

00:03:20 Speaker_03
What what the fuck does this mean like you know you're questioning your all your reality like oh my god You know like in and then after a few years You know time and repetition and war or whatever somebody goes to hold your hand you're like get the fuck away from me I'm not doing that bro.

00:03:38 Speaker_03
Come on. No. No. I'm not doing that so you gave up after a while Oh, yeah, there's a lot of things you give up right you're

00:03:45 Speaker_03
You're taught in SF drink the tea eat the food, you know, yeah do everything Yeah, just completely assimilate and honestly like a lot of that is really good because it does teach you to be a lot more open as far as listening to what they're going through from their tribal plights like and

00:04:05 Speaker_03
What are they going through from a combat experience? What do they need and you want and you want to build rapport?

00:04:09 Speaker_03
that's what you want to do and bit Rep after rep in a war zone you kind of get fatigued with that and then you're like, yeah Let's just get to the dirt here man. Like who do we want to kill like let's let's get to that and Got it.

00:04:25 Speaker_03
You don't like that tribe. We don't like that tribe. We don't like this. You don't like that. Cool. OK, so I'm not going to eat with you because every time I eat with you, I can't shit for like a normal shit for like a year.

00:04:37 Speaker_03
So we're just going to not do any of that.

00:04:40 Speaker_10
And you tell me I literally didn't shit anything but diarrhea for you said more than a year.

00:04:45 Speaker_03
Yeah, it was years, man. I was living and working with the Afghans. And and I went from Iraq. And I did the invasion with special forces from the south. And I did multiple rotations in Iraq, both with SF and then with the agency when I went over there.

00:05:04 Speaker_03
And then when we did the when we shut down Iraq in 2009, I turned around and basically went to Afghanistan 2009. So I went from Iraq to Afghanistan, and I went from Afghanistan kind of finished up my my CIA.

00:05:21 Speaker_03
Combat I guess experience and then went back to the States to do a training thing but by the time I got to Afghanistan I Had lots of time in Iraq.

00:05:32 Speaker_03
I had like four years on the ground and Afghanistan was way different but I was living and working with the Afghanis I was eating with them and Your job is to not only train, assist, and advise, build rapport, but you're trying to figure it out.

00:05:51 Speaker_03
So you need to be on the ground with them, living, eating, breathing, sleeping, like the whole thing. And their, what we call the chow hall facilities, aren't the cleanliest. You're trying, like you're working with them.

00:06:05 Speaker_03
You know, you institute different things like soap and water is like a good thing. And

00:06:13 Speaker_03
Doesn't really matter you're still gonna get sick based on you know the water Where is it coming from where what type of well source like there's lots of different variables obviously?

00:06:24 Speaker_03
But dude I I didn't have a solid shit for two years, and I was just kind of got normalized to the point where you know you're you're It's it's such a gross thing to think about man. You could not trust a fart. I Got this great. I get this great story.

00:06:42 Speaker_03
So I came in off the gun trucks and And I'm tired. I'm like went into the embassy and I had a meeting with somebody in Kabul and I had this like

00:06:52 Speaker_03
titanium mug that was like the size of a toilet bowl and I'm filling it up with coffee and I haven't slept for I don't know let's say 20 hours at a time and I'm fucking dirty and I'm filling up this this coffee toilet bowl basically because I'm getting ready to go into a briefing and

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00:10:04 Speaker_03
And I let out a fart, and it wasn't a fart. And the dude behind me was like... I didn't even turn around, dude. I knew there was somebody waiting for me. And I shit my pants. And I didn't even turn around. Didn't even blink an eye.

00:10:22 Speaker_03
Didn't even, like, lift up the handle because it was normalized. And he goes, did you shit your pants? And I was like, yeah. And I just turned around and walked off. It was the deputy ambassador or something. It was like the ambassador, right?

00:10:34 Speaker_03
And I'm just like, whatever, dude. I got shit to do. I'm out of here. Yeah. Yeah. That's to the point of which I had a permanent stain in my combat, my fatigues, right? It was just so bad. But I was like, you know what, man?

00:10:48 Speaker_03
You got shit to do like people adapt you don't you don't sweat little things like that and honestly you're just trying to like get through your

00:10:58 Speaker_03
You're trying to get through any and all things, and it's not like we're in trench warfare or anything like that. It's just like, dude, I had shit to do.

00:11:05 Speaker_03
I had people to train, we were going out, and I couldn't let that, like, you can't pull over if you're, you can at times, but there are just times where you just can't, so you just gotta keep moving, and it sucks.

00:11:17 Speaker_03
It's like the less glamorous side, I don't know if like, there's a lot of books out there telling all the cool stories about that, you know what I mean?

00:11:25 Speaker_09
So when did you find out about the buggery? Um, was it something that you need a lot?

00:11:30 Speaker_03
Yeah, it was so it started in Kuwait and I had a Ida Arabic linguist and he was a younger kid You know, he was blonde hair blue eyes and Mormon kid and he literally joined the army at 18, you know two years later after going to the Defensive Language Institute in Monterey, California you come out and you're speaking Arabic basically and

00:11:57 Speaker_03
And young kid, blonde hair, blue eyes, good Mormon kid comes out and he's with us. And the Kuwaitis kept talking about how they want to take him camping. We're like, why do you want to take that dude camping? What's so special about that guy?

00:12:14 Speaker_03
You know, and you're like, After a while you realize like that's not what they wanted to do. Right. They were like talking about it like either a joking way or a serious way. But that's the first exposure. Yeah. Yeah.

00:12:28 Speaker_03
And then did it take you a while to figure that out. Yeah, yeah, because you're so naive like dude.

00:12:32 Speaker_03
I'm like 26 years old like I don't fucking know I don't I don't think this is a thing I grew up in Idaho like I know yeah, it exists, but I'm so You know blithely like moving through the world like thinking everybody's An American male right right now.

00:12:50 Speaker_03
This is weird and then you know you go to Iraq or I went you know it's Iraq and multiple multiple rotations over there and

00:12:59 Speaker_03
and you start to assimilate with you the Iraqis you're either working with or you're training with and then it kind of starts to To fall apart where it's like, oh, this is somewhat normal For them now, they don't talk about it.

00:13:17 Speaker_03
No, I'm not saying it's like everyone by the way. I'm saying like it's it's at least relevant enough culturally where it's somewhat normalized and not talked about.

00:13:29 Speaker_10
Is it similar in Kuwait as Afghanistan or do they vary?

00:13:35 Speaker_03
Iraq is different? Yeah, they're all a little bit different. The Afghanis, we had to have, depending on

00:13:46 Speaker_03
Where we were in their barracks living situation like you had to put really hard restrictions like you know no, but fucking guys for the majority of this because This is a health issue.

00:13:57 Speaker_03
We weren't like it's not like we were we were putting Bibles on their beds or something I'm just saying hey, this is really unhealthy you guys are gonna spread a bunch of different diseases to one another and like we've got a mission to to accomplish here and

00:14:10 Speaker_03
Every SF guy every guy that's like been Afghanistan knows what man love Thursday is and it's kind of a it's kind of a thing That they do is it just Thursday or is it?

00:14:20 Speaker_10
It's that's just a thing. It's just to say yeah, but it's just they fuck each other. Yeah So there's the kid with the blue eyes. Mm-hmm. And after a while you're like, hey I They don't really want to camp with him. They're trying to fuck this guy.

00:14:32 Speaker_10
He started thinking like, Hey, how much of this is going on?

00:14:35 Speaker_03
That's it's exactly right. Yeah. And, and then you're, as you're exposed to not more of it because you don't really see it, you hear about it. So as you build rapport, build confidence in your friendships and people will start to talk about, but, um,

00:14:55 Speaker_03
is fairly pervasive and I it's it's one of those things that You just kind of accept that's happening from a good portion a good portion of the guys and 50% 60% Well what we talked about like kind of rewinding it's it's the more disturbing factor is is it's it's a

00:15:21 Speaker_03
socially indoctrinated in the children, like the sexual exploitation of children. So it starts early and then it moves into the adulthood. Bacha-bazi is a real thing. And, you know, it's dressing

00:15:37 Speaker_03
boys to look like girls and they have Some Afghanis when I say some I don't know how pervasive it is, but it's very it's it's a big percentage and the adult male stuff that's like one subsegment of their culture, but it's the sexual exploitation of children that when you find that out that's when things really turn for you psychologically you're like

00:16:06 Speaker_03
This this place is really fucked and it's in it's very pervasive.

00:16:10 Speaker_03
It's it's very it's it it's You know if you go back and you read the Kite Runner I read the Kite Runner when I was in Afghanistan I realized that you know, it's not only the story about this kid, but it's also the story of Afghanistan.

00:16:24 Speaker_03
It's very very those stories run parallel because Children are Sexually exploited regularly, and it's mainly the boys from what I understand to the point of which I was driving out on this Op I guess from Kabul to Jalalabad and

00:16:48 Speaker_03
When I first got to Afghanistan I used to see these truck drivers, and I thought you know my dad was a truck driver It's really cool these truck drivers take their sons out with them on the road That's such a really cool cultural thing and my interpreter turned to me.

00:17:00 Speaker_03
He's like Those aren't their kids, dude That's how fucking horrible it is

00:17:08 Speaker_10
It's so horrible that they're on display. They're on parade, Ian, you were saying. The guys would parade around their harem.

00:17:15 Speaker_03
Kandahar and different areas, they'll have parades and they're on display as to, this is my harem, and they're proud of it.

00:17:27 Speaker_03
And that was one of the most disturbing things that we would talk about specifically between like, the departments between Department of State CIA and the military is like, when you're out with the guys from a tactical in combat role, you see them and you interact with the way they are from a tactical level.

00:17:47 Speaker_03
every day. And you'd bring this up to management. And they would say, Oh, that doesn't, what do you mean? That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen. Or it pretend it doesn't happen.

00:17:59 Speaker_03
But if you were on the ground in Afghanistan, during the times I was there, honestly, from, you know, 2001, we'll say to the time that we pulled out, everybody uniformly would agree with what I'm saying.

00:18:11 Speaker_03
I if you if you spent some time in Afghanistan, you knew that was happening. Jesus Christ in did you see these parades? No, no, we but National Geographic I believe did an article on it several years ago Yeah, yeah, Bacha Bazzi.

00:18:27 Speaker_03
I I could be getting the pronunciation a little bit off but it turns for you and Emotionally and psychologically because you're like Okay Now now I've got some hate right right. Yeah, made my admit makes your job a little bit easier, right?

00:18:47 Speaker_03
Yeah, yeah makes your job a little bit easier. It also makes it harder for you not to Want to change the entire government system where you You want to completely, you know rewrite the entire DNA of the cultural infrastructure, right?

00:19:08 Speaker_03
because it's sad and it's It's evil and it's all of these like really horrible things. So as much as you want to help the Afghans and their plight Yeah, there you go.

00:19:24 Speaker_10
Inside the lives of girls dressed as boys in Afghanistan, the cultural practice of bacha posh.

00:19:30 Speaker_03
Bacha posh, I think that's the flip, that's the reverse.

00:19:33 Speaker_10
Encourages parents to dress their daughters as sons for a better future, but often it only makes life harder.

00:19:39 Speaker_03
That's a different, so it's boys dressed as girls. Oh, so that's the opposite? That's the opposite, yeah.

00:19:44 Speaker_10
Girls dressed as boys. So this is a different thing. Yeah. Why do they do that? What's that about? Girls dressed as boys.

00:19:51 Speaker_03
Well, I think because, well, one, there's a very low education rate when I come back to Afghanis. Oh, so they didn't get the kids educated if they presented boys? And women are really seen as, in Afghanistan, I'm generalizing, right?

00:20:06 Speaker_03
I'm taking really big swaths of the Afghan culture. So I know this isn't every Afghan. I've got lots of different Afghan friends. And I've hired a lot of Afghans.

00:20:16 Speaker_10
This isn't everybody This is the dancing this is in their Afghanistan go back up again show what's going on These guys are throwing money at this dancing boy back that up Jamie What the fuck man, yes So those are like little boys and they were dancing like strippers and these guys are throwing dollars at them.

00:20:41 Speaker_10
Yes, I

00:20:42 Speaker_03
Yep.

00:20:44 Speaker_10
Oh my god. This is so crazy and they're younger.

00:20:47 Speaker_03
So they go much younger. This is that Like this is the thing that people didn't want to talk about in Afghanistan that we talked about Regularly, which was these are very What we feel are distinctly Wrong These are very wrong

00:21:08 Speaker_03
things from a American support tactical and strategic intervention, like we should not encourage this whatsoever.

00:21:16 Speaker_03
And it made it very difficult at times for us to trust with the State Department or somebody else was saying, but I mean, this goes back to, you know, Iraq, and honestly, trust in policymakers and the State Department and their entire, you know, position, either politically, philosophically, it's just fundamentally flawed.

00:21:38 Speaker_10
So when you're hearing about this, one of the things about child molesting is that if these kids are growing up in this culture where they're going to be an adult and they're going to do that to kids as well, which has probably happened to all these guys, right?

00:21:58 Speaker_10
You're not going to fix that with all these people alive. The culture gets to a point where it's so fucked, It's like, how do you, how can you ever fix that?

00:22:10 Speaker_10
How many generations would it take before the scars of all those people being abused wears off and normalizes and people can be normal again? People can be like what we would consider a Western civilization like London or New York.

00:22:27 Speaker_03
Just how? What we feel is the

00:22:32 Speaker_03
morally appropriate cultural boundaries, that's that's like how many generations would it take and there's lots of different things that you can talk about because The history of Afghanistan is you will say post 80s and Soviet intervention and then you know with

00:22:52 Speaker_03
the Taliban pushback of the Mujahideen and like they've completely destroyed the education, the progress and evolution of Afghanistan. I mean, they had decades of war, then you had Basically a failed state with Taliban and extremist control.

00:23:13 Speaker_03
I mean as the Taliban moved in Fundamentally it it's an evil organization I went there's a soccer field in in Kabul where the Taliban used to stone women to death because they weren't wearing their hijab or the the rule of a woman will be raped

00:23:36 Speaker_03
And she would be accused of infidelity on her husband. And they would stone her or they would beat her with a stick. And they turned the soccer field into a place where they could have public displays for execution.

00:23:51 Speaker_03
It was completely insane when you when you think about it from where we're coming from and then where we're going and we're yeah, we're trying to Nation build which I have like fundamental disagreement with that as well, but

00:24:10 Speaker_03
you eliminated the educated portion of your population, you swung to a very extremist, fear-based religion, and then it was all based on the Quran as far as their education system.

00:24:28 Speaker_03
So they completely separated the women away from being able to evolve. They treated them as beasts of burden. You had to be an Islamic extremist to be acceptable.

00:24:36 Speaker_03
It was a completely hegemonic theoretical state or hegemony as far as like it's the theocracy ran everything and it was a very extremist version of Islam.

00:24:53 Speaker_03
And as we came in, and I wasn't there in 2001, I came there much later, I came there in 2009 was my first real rotation there.

00:25:04 Speaker_03
It had been seven years, but really, it was almost like going back in time, almost a thousand, it felt like you're going back in time like a thousand years.

00:25:15 Speaker_10
That's one of the things we were talking about in camp, that when you hear about Socrates and all these ancient cultures, the Spartans, all these people that had boys, and you see what's going on in Afghanistan, you realize how old a culture Afghanistan is.

00:25:34 Speaker_10
It's like one of the oldest civilizations in terms of like the way they behave. It's almost like they never caught up with the Western world. I think it was Michael Shermer might have wrote a book, a paper about this.

00:25:48 Speaker_10
He wrote an article about how Islam's the only religion that didn't go through the Enlightenment and that it's essentially maintains the same values and, you know, the same cultural values as when it was created.

00:26:03 Speaker_03
So, you know, how old is Islam? 1,600, I think it's like 500 years past Christianity, so we'll just call it 1,500 years.

00:26:15 Speaker_10
1,500 years old, whatever it is. That's how people behaved back then. That's what it is. And when you think about like Alexander the Great, Alexander the Great who was gay, right, who conquered much of Afghanistan and giant swaths of the world.

00:26:30 Speaker_10
He probably, like, his army and his behavior and what he probably stained that area with, like, a type of behavior.

00:26:40 Speaker_03
I think you're 100% right. I think that you had portions of the world that were culturally cut off from being able to evolve at the same rate as some of the other places within the Middle East.

00:26:55 Speaker_03
Those tribes essentially haven't had the opportunity to evolve because they've been very isolated I mean you look at Afghanistan's extremely isolated area of the world and If you go back to the 70s, it was relatively progressive somewhat secular and then the Soviet intervention the collapse and the failed state led to the rise of the Taliban because they had eviscerated and

00:27:20 Speaker_03
all of the the intellectual and the economic class and in order to succeed or live there you had to completely capitulate to The theocracy in the fascist state so you had to go back in time to live You had to grow a beard.

00:27:38 Speaker_03
I and when I say this is that everybody is a hundred percent No, I'm saying like this is the way people live they lived under tyrannical rules that provided zero opportunity for, you know, if you had girls, sorry, they're beasts of burden.

00:27:57 Speaker_03
They treat goats and donkeys better than their girls, their children. The homelessness of children in a war zone is so heartbreaking, like it is

00:28:11 Speaker_03
it strips away at the goodness in your soul watching desperation and when you see homeless children every day in these cities that are dirty, starving, and there's really not a lot you can do because you know you have a war to fight and

00:28:36 Speaker_03
You not only think about it from the homelessness position, you think about the exploitation position. Like these kids are so fucked. They're homeless. They don't have parents because maybe their fathers were either, you know, killed in the war.

00:28:52 Speaker_03
Their mothers can't, they can't afford to keep them. And they continue to have more kids. And especially if they've been raped, then there's a cycle of not only exploitation and violence, but then it's also, it keeps them down economically.

00:29:10 Speaker_03
So you have massive amounts of children that were homeless and exploited and they're starving. And it's, you know, you, from my perspective, when you live in that environment and you can't think about it.

00:29:32 Speaker_03
You have to shut that stuff out because if you think about it It's like opening the door of the submarine All the waters coming in it's gonna fucking sink yet, so you have to you have to build a For a lack of a better term man you have to build a callous on your soul

00:29:52 Speaker_03
Because you can't function and Meet and exceed your mission success criteria if you're gonna if if if you get Steamrolled by depression on what you're seeing every day.

00:30:08 Speaker_07
Oh my god

00:30:10 Speaker_03
time and repetition, which is one of the big problems I think with the GWAC community, at least what we've had in the last 20 years.

00:30:16 Speaker_03
I mean, there's lots of different compounding factors that I think contribute to the acceleration of veteran suicide, which I don't want to like launch into some like rant about the issues that we're, I think we're all faced, but it's definitely something that I'm extremely passionate about.

00:30:35 Speaker_10
Yeah, I'm really hoping we've talked about this a bunch of times in this podcast, but I'm really hoping that something's going to change with RFK in about psychedelics and veterans. I really, really am hoping that they open their eyes to this stuff.

00:30:51 Speaker_03
I was talking to Marcus Capone and he runs vets which he's the guy his organization is the organization that takes the guys to Mexico to do Ibogaine and Marcus is a retired seal. I was talking to him yesterday actually and I

00:31:08 Speaker_03
We, I'll go off on this, which is, you know, we as a subculture from the global war on terror community, the veterans, we're under an epidemic of suicide and oppression.

00:31:20 Speaker_03
And the VA has not been a help to us, like especially the war fighters, like the guys that are, we have rogered up time and time and time again. They've gone overseas, we've done the bidding for the country.

00:31:35 Speaker_03
We've watched our friends get killed and fucking torn in half and like very ultraviolent ways We've been exposed to overpressure and chemicals and all these other things and then we come back and Within the VA system their answer is here's your pills.

00:31:51 Speaker_03
Here's your retirement shut the fuck up and It's not working You know Marcus and I were talking about this yesterday. He was on antidepressants for seven years and seven years, like antidepressants and they weren't working.

00:32:07 Speaker_10
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00:33:32 Speaker_10
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00:33:35 Speaker_03
Just by chance, his wife, I believe, said, this might work. We need to go to Mexico and do Ibogaine. This might work. So here's a guy that went, did it one time. He's never been on antidepressants since.

00:33:51 Speaker_10
Did he have to get off them before he went there and did it?

00:33:53 Speaker_03
No. I don't know exactly what the protocol is as far as like you have to get off and then you have to get back down there. I know that most of my friend group now, they've done it. They have an extremely high success rate.

00:34:09 Speaker_03
You know, Vets has done a thousand former warfighters, and they have an extremely high success rate where they're eliminating pharmaceuticals.

00:34:19 Speaker_03
So they'll go down, they'll do it one time, maybe they've done, you know, subsequent sessions, and they have this really high success rate. And this is part of the- Better than anything. Yes. This is part of the issue. Yeah.

00:34:33 Speaker_03
We're under an epidemic of veteran suicide like more so than we ever have and the worst thing about this too is it's also affecting our family and our kids. Like our kids are four times higher to commit suicide than our peer set.

00:34:46 Speaker_03
So it's not just it's not just the GWAT veteran community now it's our families and our children. You have something that has such a proven track record to help heal vets. and we can't do it without breaking the law. We have to leave the country.

00:35:04 Speaker_03
It's insane. So, you can send me to Iraq under false pretenses and, you know, you can have Wolfowitz and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all these, this, like, orchestra of fucking idiots can send us all to Iraq for weapons of mass destruction.

00:35:23 Speaker_03
We can go fight the wars, come back, And now we have to break the law to go fix what's wrong with our heads or our emotions, not only our psychology, but dude, we're broken.

00:35:36 Speaker_03
We've been beat up and kind of shoved in a closet and then we're sedated and told to shut the fuck up.

00:35:45 Speaker_03
And meanwhile, you know, Wolfowitz and Bremer and all these other guys, they get to walk around and provide, you know, public speeches about how fucking great they are because they're, you know, strategically important, whereas my peer set, we're under an epidemic of suicide, our kids are committing suicide, the VA's no help to us, and we have to go break the law.

00:36:09 Speaker_10
It's like you get to go flip a fucking coin and paint some paintings and you think that everything's okay And that one doesn't make any sense out of all the ones that it's one that Mushrooms you can do recreationally.

00:36:20 Speaker_10
No one's doing recreational ibogaine. I've never done it before have you done it? No, I've never done it but everybody that I've talked to that They said it is one of the most ruthlessly introspective journeys in your life. It's not fun at all.

00:36:34 Speaker_10
Dakota Meyer told me, he's like, I fucking hated it. I couldn't believe someone made me do it. After it was over, I was like, what the fuck am I doing? It's not a fun time. It's not a recreational drug. It's not a drug of addiction.

00:36:46 Speaker_10
It's not a drug of dying. Let's find out what the LD50 rate is for Ibogaine. It's probably bananas. It's probably just like psilocybin. Probably can't really overdose on it.

00:36:58 Speaker_03
No. I don't know that. I don't know.

00:36:59 Speaker_10
Ibogaine might kill you. It sounds really crazy potent.

00:37:05 Speaker_03
My close friends have done either Ayahuasca or Ibogaine, neither of which they would say is a good time, all of which have said, all of which, 100%. And they've come back and been not only fundamentally changed, but better.

00:37:22 Speaker_03
And these are, you know, my business partner, Jared Taylor, he's gone and done Ibogaine.

00:37:27 Speaker_03
and And then multiple other people that probably don't want me to talk about them on the podcast guys that have been on 15 20 different Pharmaceuticals can literally scrape them off their dresser into a garbage can the day they get back crazy and the fact that we aren't trying to evolve

00:37:47 Speaker_03
this section of the medicine. I know that Stanford did a study. I'm not exactly familiar with all the data associated with it, but the fact that we aren't leading the charge as a country to come up with dynamic, out-of-the-box solutions

00:38:04 Speaker_03
for the guys that have gone overseas and, you know, done the hard and courageous task for this country and then they come back and they can't get help and we're not pushing the envelope? That's a crime.

00:38:18 Speaker_03
I mean, I've got lots of issues with, you know, Iraq at this point, right? I mean, it's fundamentally...

00:38:26 Speaker_03
I've told this to people like Iraq is with me every day right Afghanistan was was a part of my life, but Iraq Fundamentally changed me for the rest of my life, and I think about it every day. It's not going away.

00:38:38 Speaker_10
It'll never go away and What about Iraq that was much different than Afghanistan that changed you?

00:38:47 Speaker_03
Well it's a first war experience I had and I You know, for me, I was like hook, line, and sinker. Regime change, you know, move. We've got to find weapons of mass destruction. We've got to eliminate the threat.

00:39:03 Speaker_03
We've got to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here.

00:39:05 Speaker_10
Everybody thought it was real. Hell yeah.

00:39:07 Speaker_03
Yeah, I mean, there is nobody more motivated to go to war than me. I mean, I'm sure there was, but you know what I'm saying. You were in that group.

00:39:16 Speaker_10
You were gung-ho.

00:39:18 Speaker_03
Oh, 100%. It's not only, hey, we're going to go to war, we're going to do something good for America. These guys attacked the United States. We're going to eliminate the terrorist threat.

00:39:31 Speaker_03
And, you know, war is such a strange and surreal circumstance because it changes you for good, it changes you for the bad, and I've looked at this a lot.

00:39:44 Speaker_03
And I looked at life experience like a radio wave, almost like a band, where you have highs, you have lows. And most people, we'll call it 90 plus percent of the United States, their frequency only gets so high and only gets so low.

00:39:59 Speaker_03
And it basically stays within, we'll say, a fairly small band within the center. Combat what happens is you go really high and you go really low and it forces you outside of social norms on a second to second basis.

00:40:15 Speaker_03
And then you do that over and over and over again. And so one person might get in a car wreck in their life and that goes really low. So it's a really high adrenaline dump and it goes really low because they have an injury.

00:40:27 Speaker_03
That's like one thing well Going out in a combat zone Multiple night like not only multiple nights a week.

00:40:35 Speaker_03
Sometimes you're doing multiple targets a night You might go on you might be getting in it with the rough equivalent of an adrenaline car wreck What the rough equivalent of a car wreck from an adrenaline dump and a high and a low you might doing that?

00:40:49 Speaker_03
three or four times a night I

00:40:52 Speaker_03
And then you're doing that night after night, week after week, and it fundamentally changes you because you have to chop all of this down because if you get too ramped up and too chaotic, you're going to lose control and you won't be able to complete your mission criteria.

00:41:10 Speaker_03
If you get too low, You also won't be able to achieve your mission criteria your survival instincts kicked down so it chops your ability to feel all the way down to a Normal person's bandwidth because it's a survival mechanism.

00:41:25 Speaker_03
This is just my own assessment so From a combat experience perspective the first time you feel it and I'll tell you I mean the first time I was in an ambush I was losing my shit.

00:41:46 Speaker_03
I mean, anybody that tells you they're not fucking scared, they're either, like, fundamentally flawed, they're like Travis Pastrana, he doesn't have, like, a fear portion of his brain, or they're just lying.

00:41:56 Speaker_03
Like, you're scared out of your fucking mind. Like, going north, like, driving north into Iraq, you're looking into the deep, dark abyss of the unknown, and you're like, what the fuck, am I gonna be a coward? You know, am I gonna live, am I gonna die?

00:42:11 Speaker_03
I mean, our casualty, projected casualty rates was that we were going to lose most of our ODA.

00:42:17 Speaker_03
So you're stepping into a situation where you're going, okay, well, I know out of this six shooter that I'm going to play Russian roulette with, there are four bullets in this.

00:42:27 Speaker_07
Oh my God.

00:42:28 Speaker_03
And you're driving north going, okay, let's fucking do it. So you've already capitulated and given yourself up to die, which is, it's actually a very cathartic and I think personally,

00:42:43 Speaker_03
An experience that you can evolve from because at that point if you're dead You can live uninhibited Like everything I do from this point forward. This is gravy on On the steak man. I'm already dead.

00:42:59 Speaker_03
I was driving north in in Iraq and I like through like the desert and My best friend and I are like driving north and and you have like hours of Stare off into the fucking sand you know you're you're you've got night-vision goggles or whatever.

00:43:15 Speaker_03
I had a whole fictionalized funeral for myself I Just fucking what else am I gonna? Do right? You're just like driving north you know and there's nothing going on so I had a whole fictionalized funeral I buried myself and

00:43:32 Speaker_03
and so I was already dead or at least I felt like that and then We get in her first Engagement and the world starts cracking apart and your mind can't keep up to what what's actually happening you'll hear the gunfire and You know, I felt I felt the explosion.

00:43:54 Speaker_03
I looked in the rearview mirror of the Humvee, which just sounds crazy I looked on the rearview mirror And I saw this like car-sized chunk of fire flying behind the vehicle. I so distinctly remember this.

00:44:08 Speaker_03
And I'm turning my my my team leader, and I'm like we gotta get the fuck out of here You know I'm like losing it right. It's so stupid. That's so stupid. We gotta get the fuck out of here You don't like losing it dude. I'm just fucking losing it.

00:44:21 Speaker_03
He's like and he's cool, man. He's like calm cool He's on the radio. You know he's like you know vehicle one you know or vehicle three this vehicle one vehicle three this vehicle one and We're checking to see

00:44:35 Speaker_03
if we have comms between us and the other vehicles, and I'm fucking losing it. I'm like, get the fuck out of here, you know, it's like, okay.

00:44:42 Speaker_03
Because I mean, you know, you're used to like watching movies or whatever, and it's the first time anything like this has ever happened.

00:44:48 Speaker_07
Right.

00:44:50 Speaker_03
and and at this point, you know, the full insurgency hasn't kicked off that we're hunting fatty and These guys weren't the most sophisticated cats on the planet. They weren't that good.

00:45:01 Speaker_03
So but we end up pushing through and then consolidating at the end of this and Fundamentally this this like changed my

00:45:12 Speaker_03
Tactical experience in combat forever because my team leader who I respect and love he was killed two years later He's one of my best friends.

00:45:19 Speaker_03
It was my best friend He turns to me and he goes hey, man If you don't have a solution to the problem just shut the fuck up That's great advice I know that's great advice across the board yeah, and I I I was like, okay, roger that.

00:45:42 Speaker_03
You know, I was like, okay, fucking roger that, man. And then it became a practice discipline. When shit's going super sideways and, you know, bullets, when bullets are flying.

00:46:00 Speaker_04
I hate sounding like that. I don't want to say, I don't want to sound like that at all.

00:46:05 Speaker_03
But that's what it is dude you keep your shit together, and then I became by the time I my my last ambush in Iraq I was in Was my I saw a book I'll book in this experience with them ambushes yeah, I was in Mosul and I was in a little BMW trying to work my way, and I was I was working as basically low like you're trying to fly under the radar your low Vez and

00:46:32 Speaker_03
CIA at this point so we're trying to blend in we got hit a checkpoint when they light us up and so now I'm alone in a car with another guy in the CIA chief and the entire Iraqi army in Mosul Iraq is essentially pursuing us through the From I mean Mosul is the size of Los Angeles and I started at the north end of Los Angeles basically and had to work my way to the southern end of Los Angeles being shot at and

00:47:02 Speaker_03
and And I'm trying to sort through the problem man like I got a fucking map sheet and You don't know I mean This is this is Mad Max in the fucking Thunderdome and Mosul was one of the most fucked up cities in Iraq like it was It looked like going back to Stalingrad in different sections of this place.

00:47:21 Speaker_03
It was a complete shit show and and I'm alone with my you know the guys with and And I'm trying to navigate through the city and help the driver.

00:47:32 Speaker_03
We were being pursued from from literally north to south Yeah being shot at and we're going okay right turn right turn right turn and I mean I have the I have like The dragons are at the bumper. They're gonna fuck it.

00:47:49 Speaker_03
They're gonna pull me out of this car and chop my fucking head off Like they're gonna turn my car into Swiss cheese. They're gonna fucking chop my head off. I'm dead. We're dead and I have like I brought up Kiowa's they were on station.

00:48:03 Speaker_03
We had a really good really good relationship with these with these guys and I was like, hey, you know you this is me. I'm in a you know, black BMW like And you know, I'm moving, you know from north to south and And the helicopter came back.

00:48:20 Speaker_03
So I know who you are everybody following you because we Not all the checkpoints are created equal and for whatever reason they decided they were going to kill us that day.

00:48:33 Speaker_03
You don't have time, you're not going to sit around and be like, why do you guys want to kill us? Well, we're just good guys, you know? You're just going to keep moving. I had to work my way all the way south.

00:48:43 Speaker_03
to a bridge, and I had like one last, one last fucking Hail Mary, man.

00:48:49 Speaker_03
Like, we had to get across, we had to get across a bridge into a place called Diamondback, and I didn't have a QRF because they couldn't pin us down at Quick Reaction Force, and, um...

00:49:01 Speaker_03
Like the Chi was like they saved our life because they had they had the roads blocked off on the bridge And I was basically smoking in it like a hundred fucking kilometers an hour and the Chi was came down and like literally dropped their fucking skids in the front of the on the on the front of the car and panned around like We're gonna kill all you fuckers Wow

00:49:24 Speaker_03
And I looked over at one of the guys I looked over and like flipped him off and it was like you dead you know and then Like like parting the seas like Moses or whatever they moved the fucking cars and we we drove back in That was it so book ending my point of that conversation was I?

00:49:45 Speaker_03
was losing my shit my first one right and I I came back, and I was talking to Kiowa's and they're like Bro, we didn't know how bad this was because it sounded like you were ordering a pizza But everything Everything in between was like

00:50:05 Speaker_03
Like rep after rep after rep after rep was like, like calm down, keep your shit together.

00:50:13 Speaker_03
And one of my really close friends, uh, this guy, Jeff Kirkham, my first team sergeant, like awesome fucking guy, like one of the most tactically relevant people in my life. Uh, he's like, psychology is more contagious than the flu.

00:50:28 Speaker_03
So when you start losing your shit, it affects everybody else around you.

00:50:34 Speaker_10
What a great quote. Psychology is more infectious than the flu. That is a great quote.

00:50:42 Speaker_03
Yeah, man.

00:50:43 Speaker_10
That's so real. So real. That's so real. That's so real. It was everything.

00:50:51 Speaker_03
Everything. Everything. It controlled every piece of what I would do from that point forward. Like, lose your shit in a gunfight, and then you infect everybody else around you. Yes.

00:51:06 Speaker_03
Rise to the occasion, be the calm in the chaos, become a, you know, even if you don't feel like it, even if you're, you're a wigging out, man. Of course. Internally,

00:51:18 Speaker_03
Can't you can barely keep your shit together, but what you do is you're like okay, but I gotta I gotta project

00:51:27 Speaker_03
this, because if I infect everybody else with my chaos, I'm injecting more chaos into the equation, and we're all going to run the possibility of dying because of this, because of my actions.

00:51:40 Speaker_10
I think that's why people gravitate towards inspirational figures, is because they're trying to get some of that psychology. They're trying to get it worn off on them. You know, great quotes and great feats and fascinating people.

00:51:53 Speaker_10
You want to absorb some of that psychology. That is such a great, great quote, though, because it's so true. If you're around someone that's freaking out, you're trying to keep your shit together. It's so hard to keep your shit together. You can't.

00:52:06 Speaker_03
Right. If you're around a bunch of dudes who are just stoic. They're surgeons and stoic. Yeah. And they, there's no flexion. What I would say is like, The time and repetition in the community. I mean there's a default Emotion that is acceptable.

00:52:22 Speaker_03
It's you know anger right so Anger and when I say joy, it's like joy from callous humor typically right, but it's like you have to Everybody becomes a stoic.

00:52:35 Speaker_03
Yeah, nothing can phase you and if you are a guy that is phased You're a liability you're gonna get chopped.

00:52:44 Speaker_10
Yeah, you're you're infected

00:52:46 Speaker_03
Yeah, exactly. So Iraq, so going back to what I was talking about with Iraq. I'm supercharged and my reality started to kind of crumble. We were on the first ODAs and we did this joint op with the CIA to go meet this guy, Muqtada al-Sadr.

00:53:13 Speaker_03
This is early on, this is like March of the war. Miktada Osada became a prominent figure later on in the war. He was relatively not known at all in the beginning of it.

00:53:28 Speaker_03
I was working with the CIA case officer at that point, not just me, it was like my entire team. And McTottle's like, he's a bad guy. Like, he's just a real piece of shit.

00:53:39 Speaker_03
And at that point, on the Jaffa was this town, and we went out, did a meeting with him, and we came back, and all of us on the military, paramilitary side were like, this guy needs to die. Like, we need to actually go, and he has a small armed force.

00:53:56 Speaker_03
He's basically going to be the instrument of the Iranians, and we're having this big debate in the team room and everybody that carried a gun like we speak is We speak animal kingdom.

00:54:10 Speaker_03
We know when there's a threat right and then we have this case officer. It was like a you know Adjunct professor at fucking Georgetown. I didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground We're like this guy needs to die.

00:54:21 Speaker_03
We need to go like get on him now and Case officer is like no. He's gonna work with us. You know we're like

00:54:31 Speaker_10
They wanted him to be an asset.

00:54:32 Speaker_03
Yeah. Like, this guy is fucking stupid. Like, this guy's a, he's a Shia, supposedly Shia cleric. You know, if you know Iraq, you got 60% of the country's Shia. It's typically going to answer to Iran. You've got 15, 20% is up north. It's the Kurds.

00:54:51 Speaker_03
And then you've got the rest that is Sunni. And we're like, this guy's not going to fucking work with us. And this guy's a real piece of shit. And he's already spinning up a militia. He's going to be a problem. No, no, no, no.

00:55:04 Speaker_03
And we're like, okay, like you're the you're the big brain on Brad, you know, you're the you're the PhD man, like, sure, you know, so we acquiesce.

00:55:16 Speaker_03
and years later I don't know how many guys died going into going back into Najaf trying to find this fucking guy I don't know how many I mean it was a whole basically surge push or probably a division to try to go find this guy but we had the opportunity to kill him right there like literally we could have like he had less than 40 guys on the compound we could have like gone out and got him right like that night

00:55:46 Speaker_03
and And then he became a problem and not only to become a problem It was like the the the decision makers were so poor at that point in the early in the war It started to really affect me in the sense of like I was still bought and sold but I started to really think these guys might not know what the fuck they're doing when I

00:56:12 Speaker_03
It was like Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and Brennan. When they de-bathified Iraq, so after we invaded, they did this thing called de-bathification, which was basically they fired the military and everybody that was involved in the bath party.

00:56:30 Speaker_03
And once again, we're in the team room and we're watching CNN and it's Rumsfeld talking about we're de-bathifying Iraq, we're firing everybody.

00:56:42 Speaker_03
I'm not exaggerating everybody in the everybody in the team room was like what the fuck Like you guys like you guys are you guys are gonna create the insurgency like it was on the ground?

00:56:54 Speaker_03
That moment that second like I wanted to throw like I want to throw a fucking brick through the TV like I was like these guys are Paint by numbers creating an insurgency they have no fucking clue what they're doing and that was like that moment which is fairly early and

00:57:12 Speaker_03
where I I lost a lot of confidence in the decision-makers but okay you know then the question is why'd you keep going back well because you want to try to search for Meaning and you're trying to find The the actual purpose like what is the purpose?

00:57:41 Speaker_03
Like are there WMDs here? Like are there you know, like legit? Direct traces back to 9-11 are there things that we're doing that are going to directly affect and protect America and

00:57:57 Speaker_03
you're kind of searching for it and not kind of you are like that's what you're doing or at least that's what I was doing and by the time by the time I left in 2009

00:58:16 Speaker_03
I just figured I was gonna die like I was like fuck this place like fuck like like I Lived Iraq right and then I was like well, I think time and repetition in thinking that you're dead for that long and then Searching for not only some some what I would say is good and the war itself because there is good you have your buddies and

00:58:45 Speaker_03
You have the camaraderie, you have the adrenaline, but you also think you're going to fucking die every day for years on end. And that's not fundamentally turns out it's probably not good for you psychologically, I guess.

00:59:00 Speaker_03
And so I went to Afghanistan thinking, well, And I went to train Afghanis for a force up there.

00:59:10 Speaker_03
And when I went to train those guys, it was, hey, if I can train Afghanis to take on the war, maybe I can protect 18-year-old kids from getting their fucking legs blown off.

00:59:22 Speaker_03
Maybe I can protect the 20-year-old kid from Nebraska from getting a fucking RPG stuffed through their face. And I was older and I was also willing to die. So the kids, when I say the kids, you know, 18, 20 years old, like, man, it's not.

00:59:45 Speaker_03
You know, it's not fun to watch those, when I say that, that's an understatement. It's so heartbreaking to watch a kid that's never been to fucking combat, like, die. It, it changes everything in your life.

01:00:05 Speaker_03
And so you go from, you know, Iraq to Afghanistan, you know, and I'm watching all this stuff unfold and there's like, there's, and I don't want to say it's all negative because there's, there's, you know, there were things that were very positive, but.

01:00:22 Speaker_03
I'm so jaded by the time I get there That I'm Michael if I can save some Americans.

01:00:29 Speaker_03
I'll save some Americans and You know if not at least this will be an interesting experience And then you know there's a laundry list of other things we can talk about I I don't want to get so fucking down I guess

01:00:46 Speaker_10
It seems like it's impossible not to once you're going back on it. How could you not? And the overwhelming negative experiences, the overwhelming horrific experiences.

01:01:01 Speaker_03
I think that's where I have this massive distrust in politicians. And I think that's part of the reason. They have squandered the courage of the American servicemen in these forever wars.

01:01:22 Speaker_03
That we've entered in under lies so like you know Wolfowitz and W and Rumsfeld and and yeah in Sorry, man, I don't have any respect for those guys.

01:01:38 Speaker_03
Not only do I not have any respect for those guys, I have a profound amount of hatred for their arrogance. Because I'm in my 20s, I'm not making excuses, but there's plenty of guys like me that were not only hook, lane, and sinker, and I still would.

01:01:51 Speaker_03
I'd still sign up for this country. I think service is a remarkable... Courage and service back to our community is something we have to cherish, like we do.

01:02:05 Speaker_03
But when you have an orchestra of idiots that are manipulating the courageous men and women of our country to go into these wars based on a neocon pipe dream And there's no consequences You know you can pull out of afghanistan only billions of dollars of of equipment who the fuck got fired But if I made a mistake If me and my buddies made a mistake we we fucking We lost our lives

01:02:35 Speaker_03
We go to jail, like we lost our clearances. And I'm not trying to sound like a whiny bitch, I'm just saying like, no consequences for these guys. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. You know, they get to go paint paintings and they think it's okay.

01:02:48 Speaker_10
Imagine no consequences for lying about weapons of mass destruction. And has there ever been a large scale investigation as to what led them to either believe or to push the narrative that there was weapons of mass destruction?

01:03:03 Speaker_03
Well, I think if you you read I mean, I I mean there's there's a lot I think there's a lot of like There's a lot of books out there obviously and whether or not you have to kind of sort through the actual Documents and figure out like where these guys were at and I've spent a little bit of my life trying to understand from their perspective and I honestly think big part of it is the guys who are making the decisions are

01:03:26 Speaker_03
their hubris, their utopian belief that they were going to be able to rebuild Iraq like Houston, you know? Like, oh, it's an oil country, you know? And, you know, they really believed that if they didn't reign in this rogue nation of Iraq,

01:03:47 Speaker_03
that Iraq was going to eventually contribute to terrorism. And you had guys that were so consumed with their intelligence, when it flipped to not only hubris, but they didn't have wisdom, they had intelligence. Wolfowitz is a smart guy.

01:04:07 Speaker_03
He's not an idiot. The problem is he's not wise. These guys weren't wise men.

01:04:14 Speaker_03
There's a difference between having a high IQ and having the experience and repetition, seeing death and destruction, seeing people's lives fucking torn apart, and then understanding something from reading a book or thinking about it from an economics perspective.

01:04:30 Speaker_03
And, you know, I think Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, They had this belief that they could do anything they wanted to validate this. And they did. They had to data mine information and pull and pluck from different analysts that agreed with them.

01:04:50 Speaker_03
But most of the Intel community didn't agree with them.

01:04:54 Speaker_03
They're like we had defeated the Iraqi army to the point when I say defeated it Like if we go back to the 90s You say desert storm was 91 and then from that point forward you can basically say, you know HW to Clinton administration Clinton administration with the economic sanctions and With the integrated bombing campaigns that they had led throughout the 90s.

01:05:19 Speaker_03
We had essentially stuff that guy back into a hole where the only thing he could do is sell oil in the black market.

01:05:27 Speaker_03
He had a fascist state where he and his family had complete control out of the country, but he wasn't going to be a threat from an international terrorism perspective. That's just false. It's not only false, but it is patently false.

01:05:45 Speaker_03
And they had to mine the data to validate it. They had to lie. They had to sift through and find and pick and pull the pieces of information, and they really thought this was going to be a fucking cakewalk. They did. Because of Desert Storm, you think?

01:06:02 Speaker_03
They thought because of Desert Storm, and they were listening to these assets, like Chalabi and some of these former Iraqi exiles, and they were listening to these guys who, by the way, were also manipulated by the Iranians and paid for by

01:06:18 Speaker_03
Iranian Intel guys, they're Iranian assets.

01:06:21 Speaker_03
They're listening to these people and they were living in their own echo chambers, validating this idea that it was better for regime change, for the international, not only the international economy, but it was going to be a stable petroleum-based country where we could integrate democracy

01:06:43 Speaker_03
And none of these guys were Arabists. None of these guys actually understood the Middle East. Not one. They didn't have any combat experience.

01:06:52 Speaker_03
They didn't really have any combat experience from the long-term, low-intensity conflict, guerrilla warfare perspective.

01:07:01 Speaker_03
they were given not only the information, but most of the information they were given was saying, this is going to be much more complex than you think it's going to be. And they denied

01:07:17 Speaker_03
not only the opinions but the information and they went ahead with their fucking plans anyway. Rumsfeld chopped, single-handedly dictated how many people were going to participate in the war.

01:07:28 Speaker_03
Like he was dictating how many divisions it was going to take and he's like actually I think you could do it for half that. He was like trying to negotiate how many guys that Tommy Franks was going to use to invade Iraq.

01:07:41 Speaker_03
Tommy Franks didn't have the balls to say actually I need two more divisions.

01:07:45 Speaker_03
So a lot of this is just like fundamentally These are professional politicians and bureaucrats Drinking their own piss like I was saying earlier You know like you can drink your own piss once or twice before your kidneys start to shut down and it'll fucking kill you, right?

01:08:00 Speaker_03
These guys are all sitting around in their echo chambers, talking to the same types of people, defining how they were going to send servicemen and women to Iraq, and they were wrong.

01:08:14 Speaker_03
Not only were they wrong, but they were told otherwise by lots of different people to include, I mean, Tony Blair had a lot of different issues with this. Colin Powell essentially sold this and got the dominoes to fall on the entire thing.

01:08:30 Speaker_03
because they knew that Colin Powell was so respected that if he sat in front of the UN with Tennant, who was the director of the CIA, right behind him and held up this little thing of VX or whatever it was, that they could push it across the line from the international community.

01:08:47 Speaker_03
I mean, these guys were crooked, man. And not only were they crooked, they were so fundamentally wrong. And there's no consequences. Nothing. Zero consequences. They put Martha Stewart in jail. Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:03 Speaker_03
They go after Trump for fucking two years on, you know, Russia collusion. It's like you spent seven trillion dollars. in thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands of lives in Afghanistan and Iraq.

01:09:17 Speaker_03
And you're saying you're going to put this guy through the wringer for two years because there might be some dossier that was paid for by the Clintons? Like who's the criminal?

01:09:26 Speaker_03
And so for me, I get all wound up when it comes to this because rep after rep, year after year,

01:09:34 Speaker_03
My my two closest friends in the world were literally one torn in half by a EFP which was a direct a Iranian manufactured shape charge You know my other friend was turned into fucking moon dust and I mean these are my two closest friends in the world like guys I grew up with in the army that I spent every fucking day with and I

01:10:04 Speaker_03
Since then I've had obviously more friends, but I mean those are the two closest friends in the earliest part of the war, so I'm so directly affected by this because it fundamentally changed who I was forever.

01:10:21 Speaker_03
It gave me a profound amount of mistrust in my government, you know, and the decision makers. I don't believe, I actually don't believe what they're telling me anymore. I have a lot of skepticism when it comes to

01:10:36 Speaker_03
the people that are pulling the handles in government, and I have to go to my peer set. And what I told people is, man, my currency is courage, right? It's like, that's what I broker in.

01:10:50 Speaker_03
So my friends that have gone through the GWAT, which I'm extremely happy.

01:10:56 Speaker_03
For all these GWAC guys that are in like getting appointed to these positions, you know, you've got Pete you've got Tulsi JD like they fundamentally know that what war is and When you have decision makers that have never been to war and their kids will never go to war.

01:11:14 Speaker_03
I And Cheney's kids never went to war. W's kids never went to war. And none of these guys, by the way, they're all Vietnam era guys. None of them went to fucking Vietnam. So it's really easy. But nor did Trump.

01:11:27 Speaker_10
Trump didn't either, right? You got a bunch of deferments.

01:11:29 Speaker_03
But I think the difference is that when somebody is saying, stop the endless wars.

01:11:38 Speaker_03
Am more than happy to go chips in on that narrative than I am to go Oh, we need to invest in and put more time money energy into creating more chaos and destruction in the American service members lives or the lives of other people and

01:11:54 Speaker_10
Did you ever see that speech with Mike Pence and Tucker Carlson?

01:12:00 Speaker_03
No.

01:12:00 Speaker_10
Tucker Carlson essentially ended Mike Pence's political career. Really? In one speech, yeah. Because this was when Pence was running for president.

01:12:10 Speaker_10
And Tucker was sitting there with him, and Pence was talking about getting helicopters and tanks and weapons to Ukraine. And he was explaining how they were being incompetent because they weren't providing them with what they needed.

01:12:29 Speaker_10
And Tucker went on this rant. See if you can find it. I bet you could find it under that. Here it is. Listen to this.

01:12:37 Speaker_06
Let me hear what he says. Just start right where your cursor is. Click where your cursor is.

01:12:48 Speaker_05
We'll let somebody transfer some jets. I'm sorry, Mr. Vice President. I know you're running for president. You are distressed that the Ukrainians don't have enough American tanks.

01:12:59 Speaker_05
Every city in the United States has become much worse over the past three years. Drive around. There's not one city that's gotten better in the United States. And it's visible. Our economy has degraded. The suicide rate has jumped.

01:13:14 Speaker_05
Public filth and disorder and crime have exponentially increased, and yet your concern is that the Ukrainians, a country most people can't find on a map, who've received tens of billions of U.S. tax dollars, don't have enough tanks.

01:13:29 Speaker_05
I think it's a fair question to ask, like, where's the concern for the United States in that?

01:13:33 Speaker_00
Well, it's not my concern. Tucker, I've heard that routine from you before, but that's not my concern. I'm running for president of the United States because I think this country's in a lot of trouble.

01:13:45 Speaker_00
I think Joe Biden has weakened America at home and abroad. And as President of the United States, we're going to restore law and order in our cities. We're going to secure our border. We're going to get this economy moving again.

01:13:57 Speaker_00
And we're going to make sure that we have men and women on our courts at every level that will stand for the right to life and defend all the God-given liberties enshrined in our Constitution.

01:14:07 Speaker_00
Anybody that says that we can't be the leader of the free world and solve our problems at home has a pretty small view of the greatest nation on Earth. We can do both.

01:14:18 Speaker_00
And as President of the United States, we will secure our border, we will support our military, we will revive our economy and stand by our values, and we will also lead the world for freedom under my administration. I promise you.

01:14:33 Speaker_05
Amen. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you very much.

01:14:35 Speaker_10
Just that. That's not my concern. That's not my concern. What the fuck are you talking about? How would you ever answer anything that way? That is not my concern. That's not your concern. You don't think he just made a really good point?

01:14:49 Speaker_10
That we're really confused as to, first of all, aren't we like a trillion dollars in debt?

01:14:54 Speaker_09
How do we have- No, we're $35.5 trillion in debt. It's crazy.

01:14:59 Speaker_10
It's crazy. How do we have the money? How do we have the money to send to Iraq and we don't have the money to fix our cities? And how can you say that's not my concern? That, what that is, is the opposite of what Trump is. That is nonsense talk.

01:15:16 Speaker_10
Not that he doesn't have nonsense talk, but that is not a person's real feelings. That is just political speech. That's just, we're going to clean up our country. We're going to preserve the right to life.

01:15:27 Speaker_03
It's memorizing soundbites.

01:15:28 Speaker_10
Exactly, exactly.

01:15:30 Speaker_03
And that's the entire problem with Washington right there. Yeah, exactly. They memorize soundbites. They say one thing, they do the other thing. Exactly, exactly. They've lost the trust of their constituents. They've lost the trust of the American public.

01:15:46 Speaker_03
And by the way, it's administration after administration. It's politician after politician. It shouldn't be a surprise if people don't like politicians. I mean, look at that guy. He's a fucking robot. He's weird.

01:15:58 Speaker_10
He's a weird dude. He's weird. They kept trying to say JD's weird. JD's not weird at all. I met that guy. He's fucking cool. He's normal. Smart as shit. I could hang with that guy. He could be my friend. He's not even a little weird. No, that guy's weird.

01:16:12 Speaker_10
I mean, I guess anybody who's that smart is weird. People that go to Yale, people that—he's weird in that way. That's an odd dude. You don't see a lot of those. But normal. That guy's weird. Bizarre like his face doesn't move.

01:16:26 Speaker_03
Did you have Botox at 80 like what the fuck is going on like you're weird I think they have low IQs, and they're pushing that thing to the red That's why they're actually so afraid to do anything because they're like I have they're like I'm really pushing this thing I've got like a Hyundai like a 105, but my parents were rich So I went to Yale if I break outside of my box actually people are gonna know that I'm a fucking retard so right

01:16:50 Speaker_10
Well, I also think that if you're that ambition, you have ambition at that level, and you're so driven to become the alpha that you want to be the president, the amount of work that's involved in that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for reading.

01:17:07 Speaker_10
It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for watching documentaries and having important in-depth conversations with people, expanding your understanding of the world. It's very narrow. They're basically actors.

01:17:20 Speaker_10
Most of these people exhibit a lot of the traits that I see in actors. This desire to morph oneself, to please the people around you. The saying the things you think people want to hear because you want to get ahead. It's it's all like very similar.

01:17:36 Speaker_10
They're actors And the fact that these actors can rise to a position where they can actually dictate What these military veterans do and don't do when they have no knowledge or experience in this now, that's The fact that that's a real thing is fucking crazy.

01:17:53 Speaker_10
It's really crazy.

01:17:54 Speaker_03
I I mean, I think that's by the time I left I was so jaded and the motivating factor was... Oh, sorry. It's like no man will ever have control over my destiny again Like I won't I will not I?

01:18:13 Speaker_03
There's I will not put a bit in my mouth Yeah for another Man in the government they will not be making decisions for me.

01:18:23 Speaker_10
Yeah, I don't I don't think we can recall a time in our history where we did trust the government and Which is such a weird thing to say. You know, I used to think it was the Obama administration.

01:18:35 Speaker_10
But boy, Obama during this Kamala Harris administration, it changed my opinion of that guy. Really? Did you have a high opinion of him before? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did just as an intelligent person, a statesman.

01:18:49 Speaker_10
I felt like he's probably caught up in the system. It's very difficult to make real meaningful change. You think you're going to do something, and then you get into office, and you're like, oh, God, what a fucking quagmire this place is.

01:19:00 Speaker_10
But watching him just straight up lie about Trump, the thing that got me was that very fine people thing, the white supremacist thing. They just kept trying to say that he was a racist. which is this thing that I think worked in like 2017.

01:19:15 Speaker_10
Yeah, I think it worked back then. I don't think it works anymore. I don't think people believe it anymore. I think that we've gotten numb to all this stuff.

01:19:24 Speaker_03
It's the sky is falling thing. Yeah, like yeah cry wolf or whatever.

01:19:28 Speaker_03
It's like you guys can only call You only call me a fascist so many times I mean like the New York Times wrote that article a couple years ago, right where I'm like It was the front of the coffee cup where it's like do you want Trump 2024?

01:19:40 Speaker_03
Do you want low taxes? Do you want this? I'm like, I want all that sounds good and Like you can only call me

01:19:47 Speaker_10
fascist racist asshole, I mean to be fair like I am I can float into the asshole category relatively easy, but Yeah, only when prompted yeah, it's uh You know what my fucking favorite things of this whole election cycle has been yesterday

01:20:06 Speaker_10
When Biden and Trump sat down in the White House, Biden voted for Trump. I guarantee it. I fucking guarantee it. I never saw that dude so happy in his fucking life. He lost. His party lost. He was happy.

01:20:25 Speaker_10
When Obama had to shake hands with Trump and do the whole transition thing, Obama looked like, Jesus Christ, look at Biden.

01:20:34 Speaker_08
Look at his fucking smile, dude!

01:20:37 Speaker_03
Trump's like, uh, whatever.

01:20:39 Speaker_10
Look at his fucking smile, man. That's like when your kid gets married. That dude looks like a hairless cat. Look at him. It's crazy. First of all, what have they done to him? What have they done to his face?

01:20:51 Speaker_10
Go back to the other picture because it was more high-res. But look at his mug, Matt. First of all, for sure he's got something going on with his forehead. They Botoxed the shit out of his forehead. They gave him a facelift for sure.

01:21:03 Speaker_10
It was a bunch of different things they did, which very ill-advised, by the way, folks. Look at Trump. He looks like shit. No one cares. Everyone loves him. You don't look better if you get your face pulled back like a lizard.

01:21:14 Speaker_10
You just look more like a lizard. Everybody thinks you're a lizard already. But look at that smile. That motherfucker's never been happier in his life. In his life! He's like, that bitch! She went down! You can't tell me he wasn't happy.

01:21:30 Speaker_10
Like when he put that MAGA hat on, you ever see that? Oh yeah, yeah. He put the MAGA hat on! And he took it with him on the plane! I'm guarantee you, I guarantee you that motherfucker was happy. He had a giant smile on his face.

01:21:44 Speaker_10
He said, welcome back to him. I thought it was Hitler.

01:21:47 Speaker_03
I thought he was dangerous. That's what they all said, right? It's like, Hey, this is the, he's a threat to democracy. And then all of a sudden it's like, ah, Hey. We're going to have a smooth transition here.

01:21:58 Speaker_10
This was the guy that you said was sharp as a tack. He was getting up until four months ago. Four months ago, that guy was going to be running again. And now here he is, smiling like a Cheshire cat. How big was his smile? That's a crazy smile.

01:22:15 Speaker_03
Man, he looks like he's wearing a mask.

01:22:18 Speaker_10
He might be. Yeah, maybe he's wearing a mask. There was that one fake Biden. Did you ever see the fake Biden?

01:22:22 Speaker_03
Yeah, yeah.

01:22:23 Speaker_10
The tall guy?

01:22:24 Speaker_09
That guy was so much taller. The guy was like 6'4". He was a giant Biden.

01:22:31 Speaker_03
They're gonna smoke that one by us like it's like dude this guy's like You know six seven could be playing in the NBA.

01:22:37 Speaker_10
He was so much taller They showed Jill and him together Jill's like what happened. That's a different human being It's so nuts man.

01:22:47 Speaker_10
It's so nuts all the different things that happened during this election are wilder than anything You've ever seen in a fucking movie

01:22:53 Speaker_03
Brought I think it brought so many more people into politics do and people the more people pay attention to what's going on with politicians with the country, I don't think that's a bad thing because right I think

01:23:07 Speaker_03
Bureaucrats and politicians alike they directly benefit from people not paying attention Yes, and so they only want you to pay attention once a year when they're gonna try to get Everybody galvanized around a couple little stupid things and then get them out to the voting booth, but not too many We don't want a lot of complex thought out of the voters.

01:23:24 Speaker_03
We don't really want them to think about too much about

01:23:27 Speaker_02
Right.

01:23:27 Speaker_03
Because we still got a national deficit that we gotta increase, and I gotta line the pockets of all my buddies at Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and Lockheed Martin. We don't want them to get in too far.

01:23:41 Speaker_03
Don't start talking about the reserve, or don't start talking about any of that other stuff.

01:23:46 Speaker_10
I think that's what it is. Well, I think that's also why politicians, or some of them at least, are terrified of podcasts. Yeah. Because you do have to talk about that. But that's what makes guys like J.D.

01:23:58 Speaker_10
and guys like Trump unique, in that they will just sit and talk with anybody. I mean, he sat with Theo Vaughn. Theo talked to him about doing coke. That's awesome. It was so funny. Theo's amazing. It was amazing.

01:24:10 Speaker_10
Theo has an ability to be himself no matter who he's talking to. And him talking to Trump about how he used to love to do coke.

01:24:18 Speaker_09
And Trump's just sitting there, which was super funny, by the way.

01:24:22 Speaker_10
He's sitting there like this poor guy. You see Theo falling apart in front of you like, Jesus Christ, I thought I was running for president here. I think I might have to help this young fellow. Who do I need to talk to about this?

01:24:33 Speaker_10
But Kamala didn't have the ability to do that. Or if she did, nobody brought it out of her. I was hoping I could. I really was. I was hoping I could have a conversation with her.

01:24:42 Speaker_10
There's all this talk now that the reason why she didn't do it is because of...

01:24:46 Speaker_10
Progressive people in our party the pushback right which might have some truth to it but for the record they offered me two very specific days and In different places in the country to travel and then go do it and do it for an hour I said I didn't want to do that

01:25:03 Speaker_10
and especially after Trump had done it. Here, in three hours, I'm like, this is the only way to do it. And Elon said it best.

01:25:09 Speaker_10
He said, he goes, you can kind of bullshit someone for an hour, because hour two and hour three, like that's, that's when the real you comes out.

01:25:16 Speaker_03
Yeah, you're you're gonna get it's the real you you're gonna you're gonna tear the layers off the onion, right? It's like percent It might make you cry.

01:25:24 Speaker_03
Yeah, and The more you peel it the more you might be like, oh this person's How much are you bullshitting the world, right?

01:25:32 Speaker_10
Yeah, the the quote about Trump or the narrative about Trump has always been that he's bullshitting everybody These are con man He's definitely very persuasive.

01:25:40 Speaker_10
Scott Adams has wrote about this pretty much in depth about how well Trump practices the art of persuasion. The art of the deal. He's great at making people his friend and making relationships and if you're his enemy, fuck you, scorched earth.

01:25:57 Speaker_10
And there's fear of that. You don't want to get on his bad side. There's this art of how he negotiates and he's gone through this years and years and years of business. But that's him. The guy's right there.

01:26:09 Speaker_10
You could talk to him about everything and anything. He's right there. He's not protecting any of his ideas. He called a girl he allegedly slept with horseface when he was the president on Twitter.

01:26:20 Speaker_03
It's so funny.

01:26:21 Speaker_10
It's the wildest shit. So you're getting what you get. That's who the guy is. I like him. I've grown to like him. I had a much more negative opinion of him back in the day because it was

01:26:35 Speaker_10
There's only so much you can pay attention to and do deep dives on before you lose your fucking mind. And with him, I was always like, oh, that guy, the grab him by the pussy guy, it's probably not good for the country. That seems crazy.

01:26:45 Speaker_10
But as time went on, I was like, oh, you need a guy that is completely crazy to expose how corrupt the whole system is. and how they all collude together and how they all say this.

01:26:59 Speaker_10
There's all these montages of clips of news organizations saying the same narrative outright over and over verbatim, word by word.

01:27:08 Speaker_10
They're getting fed this by someone, some entity, somehow or another they're collaborating and they're all choosing this very specific narrative and they're running with it and they're trying to destroy people with it. And I saw them do it with me.

01:27:22 Speaker_10
I saw them do it with me during the COVID thing. And it was all motivated by the pharmaceutical drug companies and the profits.

01:27:27 Speaker_10
And they were terrified that someone's going to come along and somehow or another put a notch in this little thing that they've created, which is a devious little thing that they've done, where they eliminated all sorts of other remedies.

01:27:38 Speaker_10
They cut out all these generic drugs that possibly could have been used to help people. They denied people the use of monoclonal antibodies. They pushed the fucking shit out of this one thing so they could make money off of it.

01:27:51 Speaker_10
and they did it in collusion with the media. No one acted like a journalist. No one looked at the excess deaths. No one looked at the instances of myocarditis in young people. No one looked at any of that. There was no journalism.

01:28:03 Speaker_10
It just showed everyone that the whole system is bought and paid for. It's all corrupt. And the only way You could find out who a person really is, is to listen to them talk for long periods of time. It's the only truth serum we have left.

01:28:20 Speaker_10
And even that's not 100% effective, but it's pretty good. Your brain knows bullshit. You ever met some guy? Like he's dating this girl that you know, and there's just something about that.

01:28:34 Speaker_10
It's like what he's shaking my hand He's being nice to me, and I'm like I don't trust this motherfucker like something's gross about this guy And then you find out he's a piece of shit, but it's always this thing like you feel something if you talk to someone long enough there's patterns in the way they talk the way they think and

01:28:52 Speaker_10
The way they consider things, whether or not they can admit that they're wrong, or whether or not they can tell you why they changed their mind, how did they form their narratives?

01:29:02 Speaker_10
What bad paths were they on, and what personal correction did they make, and how long did it take before you got to a better place? You learn about people when you hear him talk for long periods of time. You can't fake personal growth.

01:29:14 Speaker_10
You can't fake like stuff you've learned. You can't fake flaws that you're willing to expose to people so that they could perhaps see them in themselves. You can't fake that. And all those people like Mike Pence, he's got zero of that.

01:29:28 Speaker_10
You can't sit that guy down and have a conversation, a real conversation with him.

01:29:33 Speaker_03
He's so afraid Honestly, I don't think he even knows who he is Guys like that don't even know like an actor. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're like actors like my buddy Dave We were talking yesterday. You met him the other night.

01:29:48 Speaker_03
I've known him for 20 years like There's a lot of fun dude. You know we met in Kabul back in the day Dave Dave and I like we go way back and he's good friends of Bruce and with my friend.

01:29:59 Speaker_03
Yeah, yeah crazy like cuz he's a team guy right so he's like former CLC I a guy and Dave and I were talking about this and When you when you can just be authentically engaged with people and

01:30:13 Speaker_03
where you can just be yourself, and that's part of the issue with, I think, a lot of vets, and why they connect really well with vets, is because you can just authentically engage with people and say, this person knows I'm a little bit broken, this person knows that I've probably done shit that I'm not super proud of, and they know that I've got a dark sense of humor, but I can just kinda open, I can open my heart and just have a real conversation with somebody.

01:30:43 Speaker_03
And that's the shit you chase.

01:30:45 Speaker_09
Yeah.

01:30:46 Speaker_03
Where you can just be yourself and you can talk about stuff and you can like try to evolve the way you're thinking and feeling. Right.

01:30:55 Speaker_03
And these artificial bullshit conversations that we have throughout our day with people we don't give a shit about, or these like, you know, inauthentic, unreal, you know, veneer people, it's like, I have no interest in having a conversation with a fake person.

01:31:08 Speaker_10
That is stupid. That is the best thing that I took out of moving to Texas, from moving to LA. I have way less of those conversations. I have almost none of them here. Well, my conversations here are with normal people. They're normal.

01:31:21 Speaker_10
So many people are infected by the rhythm of Hollywood, which is just about people trying to become successful. And the way you become successful in Hollywood is you get chosen, because you have to go on auditions. That's the primary, right?

01:31:35 Speaker_10
The number one top of the food chain, well, I guess rock star. Rockstar and movie star or number one and number two maybe interchangeable Maybe they're the same same if it's a ten like biggest stars in the world.

01:31:45 Speaker_10
It's ten movie stars and rock stars and movie stars

01:31:51 Speaker_10
Everything you do is about your relationships with people, and whether or not people think you align with them politically, and whether or not you support the right causes, you wear the bow tie at the Oscars, you act proper, you do all the things that you're supposed to do.

01:32:06 Speaker_10
And if you do all the things you're supposed to do, then you get into the club. You know, and if you don't do all the things you gotta do, then they're not gonna use you. They're gonna use Daniel Craig. They're gonna use this guy.

01:32:16 Speaker_10
They're gonna use that guy. They're gonna use Dave Bautista. They're gonna use The Rock. They're gonna use... There's so many guys that want these roles, and there's only so many good roles. Right.

01:32:26 Speaker_10
Especially if you're gonna be a male movie star, you know? Like, so no one can color outside the lines. And Dennis Quaid is, like, one of the rare few, like, male movie stars. who just fucking completely gave up. He's like, I support Trump.

01:32:41 Speaker_10
I'm a Christian. I sing gospel music. Fuck you. I quit. He did this Reagan movie. It was a Reagan movie. It's about a 1980s president.

01:32:53 Speaker_10
They wouldn't let him advertise on certain social media networks because they said it was during the time of the election and it could affect the election. What was it? Was it Facebook? That's insane. Was it YouTube or Facebook?

01:33:09 Speaker_10
One of the social media outlets kept him from advertising this movie, which is a great movie, about Reagan, where he plays Reagan. He does a fucking amazing job. It has nothing to do with today. It's about a guy who's dead. He's dead. He's dead.

01:33:24 Speaker_03
He's been dead forever.

01:33:25 Speaker_10
He was dead his last year in office. He had fucking full-on Alzheimer's.

01:33:29 Speaker_03
I that's the thing with this this whole social media, you know censorship demonetization like the way that they've they've They honestly and how I say they like there's a big group and you I mean you were talking about it the other night even with your show with the Trump show and Then it's not trending.

01:33:50 Speaker_03
You can't even find it the firearms community on YouTube deals with this all the time Oh, yeah all the time

01:33:57 Speaker_03
You know the guys that have the huge youtube channels from the firearms perspective sure they they're demonetized They have to upload multiple times or in like a good friend Collins.

01:34:07 Speaker_10
Call me on noir. Yeah his fucking show He can't get it to grow.

01:34:11 Speaker_09
He can't get his Instagram to grow He's like completely stifled and they're they're keeping the lid on this.

01:34:17 Speaker_03
I mean like Brandon Herrera

01:34:19 Speaker_06
After he was on the podcast, Facebook acknowledged his mistake and lifted the restrictions.

01:34:24 Speaker_10
Yeah, you acknowledged it! Look at this, he expressed belief that Facebook labeled the content as an attempt to sway an election. Like the entire... Thank you, Facebook.

01:34:37 Speaker_06
They said it was automated in their defense, but that's what they said.

01:34:40 Speaker_03
It was just a mistake, Jamie. I'm just, that's what they said. Jamie, it was just a mistake. Yeah.

01:34:44 Speaker_03
The entire firearms community, and it's weird because we, when I say we, we talk about it all the time, like whether it's, you know, the biggest YouTube channels on, for the firearm space, they're constantly battling, trying to keep their channels up.

01:34:59 Speaker_03
This is a constitutionally protected right. Right. And because there's a difference in political opinion, they can tip the scale, which is completely insane to me. And there's a lot of traffic.

01:35:16 Speaker_03
I mean, you think about some of these really big channels that are out there. These guys drive millions and millions of views.

01:35:23 Speaker_03
People obviously want to watch and they can't increase their reach or they get demonetized and they're constantly screwed with over and over and over again.

01:35:34 Speaker_03
And that's the way that we've, I think a lot of us have felt we've been living under the thumb of, you know, our, our, our social media oligarchs that are deciding whether or not our information is agreeable to their political opinion.

01:35:49 Speaker_10
Did I ever tell you the time that I was having a conversation with a Facebook or YouTube executive, and my wife had to grab my leg under the table and stop me? Seriously? In Hawaii, okay? So I'm with a friend, and my friend was an executive at Google.

01:36:04 Speaker_10
Very nice person, no problems with them. We're all having a good time. We're sitting down drinking and talking, and I got a couple in me.

01:36:14 Speaker_10
This lady who's a big wig at YouTube sits down across from me and we start talking and I said when it comes so we get into this conversation. It's a very friendly conversation Nothing problematic at all.

01:36:27 Speaker_10
I don't think she knows, you know even knows who I am and this is a long time ago so this is like 2015-14, so my podcast is not that big. It's not that big at all. I can tell you exactly when it was.

01:36:41 Speaker_10
When did Sam Harris and Douglas Murray have a conversation? When did The Strange Death of Europe come out? Tell me about that.

01:36:50 Speaker_10
That's Douglas Murray's amazing book that has been proved now to be absolutely accurate in his assessment of what was going to happen to Europe with Muslim integration. Essentially, the guy nailed it. And him and Sam Harris.

01:37:05 Speaker_10
Okay, so you have two public intellectuals who are having a conversation about cultures and about the

01:37:14 Speaker_10
what what is different about these islamic cultures and their desire to impose sharia law like at least in certain areas so they're having this conversation and it gets labeled uh as it gets flagged off this guy's account so i find out about this video because this guy has an account and he i don't remember where he posted it maybe twitter but he said i got flagged on youtube

01:37:39 Speaker_10
For having this in my playlist as something that I watch like not even something he hosts on his channel So, uh, I asked the lady I said, why would someone get flagged for a conversation? She goes it was hate speech

01:37:53 Speaker_10
Just like that, just like that, it was hate speech. I go, do you remember the conversation? Because I watched the conversation. I don't think it was hate speech at all. It was definitely hate speech.

01:38:03 Speaker_10
But it's between two public, and then my wife just clamps down on my neck, because she sees I'm fucking, I'm rabid.

01:38:09 Speaker_10
Now like it's two public intellectuals having a conversation about a real thing that's happening in the world And there's there's no hate speech in that there's no slurs. There's no degrading of people in a generalization of people There's no racism.

01:38:21 Speaker_10
This isn't they're talking about real cultural differences and how they're gonna affect Europe and this fucking lady just to its hate speech the arrogance of the way she said it to me and she was a big executive and And I was like, oh boy.

01:38:37 Speaker_10
I was just boiling. I was boiling. And thank God my wife grabbed my leg. She fucked her. She grabbed the shit out of my leg because I was ready to go. Because the lady was going to engage with me. And I was like, oh, this is a podcast. No, you're fucked.

01:38:54 Speaker_10
You're fucked. You're fucked. You're just lucky there's no cameras here. What you're saying is absolutely crazy. Like, who are you to make that distinction? And do you have any idea how that affects us culturally?

01:39:04 Speaker_10
When a person like yourself who lives in this fucking San Francisco, this whole bizarre tech cult bubble, that's what you live in.

01:39:15 Speaker_10
And you want to impose this crazy leftist perspective on everyone in the world to the point where you're not even allowing two world-renowned public intellectuals have a public discussion about this in front of an audience.

01:39:31 Speaker_03
Dude, I would deal with that all the time where people, I would talk about the Middle East. I spent most of my adult life in the Middle East. I was in Iraq, I was in Jerusalem, I was all around the Middle East and Africa.

01:39:44 Speaker_03
And I would just say, I just don't agree with the way that Saudi Arabia runs, right? I don't agree with the monarchy. I don't agree with... Islamic Sharia law. I don't agree. Oh, you're a fucking racist and you're like what?

01:40:01 Speaker_03
No, man I just don't think that it's the best way to go about it. Right like It's like no, I'm not a racist. I've lived there. I've been there. I've spent a ton of time there. I think this is better

01:40:14 Speaker_10
And these are the reasons why and people didn't want to have a conversation with oh, you're racist But this is what's crazy You have to be able to have those conversations even if that person's lot wrong Like if someone wants to get on YouTube and tell the world why Sharia law is better I think they should be able to do that I let them do it and let someone counter it and let them have debates and Sam Harris has had a bunch of debates like that.

01:40:38 Speaker_10
Mm-hmm there you can watch them online. They're amazing

01:40:40 Speaker_10
let people figure out who they agree with and if you just shut down discourse and say that it's hate speech and you're defining hate speech as no slurs there's no like we got to kill all these people there's none of that there's no hate in this conversation you're saying hate speech is disagreeing with a narrative that all leftists must ascribe to regardless of any objective assessment of the facts and you just

01:41:05 Speaker_10
Sitting down and looking at it and go, you know, I don't think I agree with this aspect of it Like I think that like telling women and they have to wear a hijab or where there's that's you're not giving them the choice You're not giving someone choices just fundamentally bad for the race for humans.

01:41:20 Speaker_10
It's oppression. It's

01:41:23 Speaker_03
Anything outside of a meritocracy in the context of being able to evolve a conversation based on the best idea wins, and when you're chopping out 50% of your population and saying their piece of burden and where they belong is just essentially- Basket of deplorables.

01:41:38 Speaker_03
Yeah, like this is the problem that I have with this and any time that I've had this conversation around The Middle East where like these are the things I don't like about it and I mean there's lots of different things it could be the you know that the Arab men will typically wear this very long open bottom

01:42:00 Speaker_03
Garb right it's typically referred to as a man dress my god. I hate that thing this thing's stupid like I've had to wear it You know and I do wear underwear Sometimes yeah, I've worn a hijab. I get we're talking about it. Yeah, I'd like I

01:42:16 Speaker_03
Had like a tiny little like belt-fed machine gun, and I'd have to wear cuz I'm a small guy right I'm 100 fucking 60 pounds, and so I would often be the woman Because I could I could be the fucking I got a feminine frame man.

01:42:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, I got you know birthing hips of course but You know, I could get a little saw, which is a squad automatic weapon, a little belt-fed machine gun, a couple of frags underneath a hijab, and I could sit in the back seat. Oh, wow.

01:42:44 Speaker_03
It's like, surprise, bitch. I'm not a woman.

01:42:50 Speaker_10
Picturing you with a job and a belt-fed machine gun under your dress is fucking hilarious One man like did you have like a thing we could pop it up like a like a low-key jacket Yeah, so you'd velcro so yeah, we had a whole department in the agency where?

01:43:07 Speaker_03
they they would like Design costumes and shit for you. So you could I had like I had this fake mustache.

01:43:14 Speaker_03
I got a picture of it I'll fucking send it to you, but I had this fake mustache and like they would put Tanner and fake mustache and and like sunglasses I'd like drive around looking like Saddam half the time like like that fucking America World Police movie.

01:43:29 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah full-on and and it's so funny because like you'd have like a No shit a person putting makeup on you before you like go out to do something You know I got a fake mustache, and you know or for me.

01:43:45 Speaker_03
I'm like just give me a job I already know what I'm doing.

01:43:47 Speaker_10
Give me the fucking put me in the lady thing be the fat girl anything Are we allowed to wear makeup at all or the Islamic women allowed to wear makeup under their hijab or no?

01:43:57 Speaker_03
Yeah, they can't depending on the on that on where they are Some parts they don't let them do it

01:44:02 Speaker_03
Some parts yeah, depending on on how extreme they are, but if you went to Kuwait or something like that they would Flash it, you know, it's like a signify it signify that they're there. They're like racy, you know Sorry

01:44:25 Speaker_10
Isn't it wild, though, that that religion, the absolute most suppressed religion, suppressive religion when it comes to women and gays, are the ones that the progressives are so vehemently defending?

01:44:38 Speaker_10
Like, that's the one they defend over all religions. You can be, like, a leftist will accuse you readily and quickly of being Islamophobic. It's a great thing to shut you down. It's a great pejorative.

01:44:52 Speaker_10
But no one ever accuses you of being an anti-Christian. No one. It never comes up. No one, no one. There's not even a word, right? You can have Islamophobic. Is there a Christianophobic? I've never heard it.

01:45:03 Speaker_10
What is a word, like a disparaging word for someone who is prejudiced against Christians? Does it exist?

01:45:13 Speaker_04
Don't know. I mean, it probably doesn't even honky.

01:45:16 Speaker_10
Yeah, you know, it's like a racist term for white people a cracker doesn't work Caucasian cis male.

01:45:21 Speaker_03
I don't even know what that means Christian phobia.

01:45:25 Speaker_10
See that's that's too much garbly gook.

01:45:28 Speaker_03
You can't say it fast. No Islamophobia is kind of fun.

01:45:31 Speaker_10
Yeah, Islamophobia flows. It sounds like you're intellectual. Mm-hmm Well, this podcast is filled with Islamophobia. First of all, let's just yeah discuss this. This is really important We need to direct them to feminism

01:45:43 Speaker_03
But I think that's so funny because when I, when I listen to academics, you know, I'll pull up a YouTube and I'll go down a rabbit hole on a certain thing and I'll listen to an academic and then half of them, I shouldn't say half of them, like a good portion of them, they're talking about things they've never actually experienced.

01:46:04 Speaker_02
Right.

01:46:05 Speaker_03
So for me, I've lived in the Middle East, like I've lived in Jerusalem. Right. I've lived and interacted and been in these cultures and seen them in a very vivid way.

01:46:20 Speaker_03
And when I say this, like tactical and combat experience specifically in these countries, it's very vivid. And part of the problem with You know this differentiation.

01:46:36 Speaker_03
Let's go back to it, but this differentiation between the decision makers and the people actually implementing the The tactical execution on the ground is that there's a huge disconnect from the reality They don't have the wisdom to understand what it is and what I used to tell people is like I was almost like a zookeeper where

01:46:56 Speaker_03
I would usher, depending on the person, I would usher them through the fucking zoo so they could see what's going on, but they would see it from afar. And I kept the lions from eating them.

01:47:06 Speaker_03
And there's this very clear differentiation between the people in charge, and most of them shouldn't have been in a combat zone, specifically in the agency. They should not have been in a combat zone. And when you unpack the agency and you look at...

01:47:21 Speaker_03
You have paramilitary guys, and they're more than more than qualified to be there and then you have like the cocktail circuit guys And they they're just trying to get their combat tour so they can get promoted to another fucking spot But they actually have no business being there

01:47:35 Speaker_03
Meaning, they need guys like me to keep them alive.

01:47:39 Speaker_10
Oh, so they're just like getting in days for the ledger. That's all they're doing.

01:47:43 Speaker_03
There's a very famous, infamous case officer from Coast back in the day, and I was on the ground there, not in Coast, in Kabul at the time. And she was being groomed to be the assistant director.

01:48:00 Speaker_03
There's a great book on it called double agent, but I was on the ground when it happened and She had this Asset that she was trying to get in which is a agency asset that she was trying to get into a basin coast once again, this person has no

01:48:20 Speaker_03
They should not be here.

01:48:22 Speaker_03
They should be in in Germany going to a cocktail party like Pretending like they're really cool because they have high intellect, but they have no context to Going down to the basis of reality and these are like rules of the jungle like this like this Power is the only language they speak like you can't

01:48:43 Speaker_03
Intellect your way out of this thing like is a fucking bullet is a bullet a bat is a bat like it will win over your Articulation every time if you want to win a debate, and you just put an axe handle through somebody's fucking head That's how you win right like it doesn't matter.

01:49:00 Speaker_03
It doesn't matter so like they bring in this asset, and she's like oh, you know this Asset is the guy he's gonna give us the the coordinates to bin Laden. We've been working with him for a long time He's an amazing guy.

01:49:13 Speaker_03
It's his birthday He wants us to bring him a cake So she bypasses all the security systems bringing in a guy from Pakistan So she gets him because he's like I don't want to go through any security.

01:49:28 Speaker_03
I'm your trusted guy I don't want to go through see first. I don't want to go through any security. I So she tells security, stand down. She doesn't tell anybody about it. She brings this guy in through the gate, like blows him through.

01:49:41 Speaker_03
Now the security guys, mind you, are like, what the fuck did you just do? They're running down to this situation to try to get ahead of it. He steps out and he looks like the Michelin tire man and fucking clacks off.

01:49:56 Speaker_07
Oh God.

01:49:58 Speaker_03
Three of my friends were killed in that suicide bomb.

01:50:02 Speaker_03
She was killed ultimately and But that's a perfect example, and I mean there's like multiple different examples of There's a different cadence mindset and capability associated with what I would say is the paramilitary guys versus the case officers the spies there's just totally different guys and

01:50:26 Speaker_03
They tried to intermingle because of capabilities and more importantly promotions to try to get people like Promoted which is another reason why like some significant things have to change over there and They got guys send people to you just you were supposed to protect these people.

01:50:46 Speaker_10
I

01:50:46 Speaker_03
Yeah. So they could be collection officers on the ground. I mean, like, time after time, example after example, I had this guy in this town called Lashkagar, out in the middle of fucking nowhere.

01:51:01 Speaker_03
Before we go there, so let's rewind to Iraq I Had a I did I had a spy that we were working with and they're called case officers in the agency and uh and uh we go out to pick her up from the airfield and we're like bringing her to where she needs to go and we pick her up and she gets in the car behind she gets in in the car behind me and she Takes out her pistol

01:51:29 Speaker_03
She points it and I'm in the passenger seat. She's right behind me. She takes out her clock She puts a magazine and it racks the slide right behind my head like directly into the back of my head

01:51:42 Speaker_03
And I turn around I'm like and I'll tell you exactly what I said. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Turn around. I'm like, give me that thing like and I called her I called her some like very rude Very rude things right?

01:51:58 Speaker_03
So I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Don't take your pistol out I go if both of us are dead then think about it and I'm gonna keep this you just don't have it anymore As I gave her back.

01:52:12 Speaker_03
I actually gave her back the empty pistol I was like listen if both of us are dead feel free to take one of their take one of our guns take both of our guns I don't give a shit because I'm dead But I get back in and the chief of base at the time Paul pulls me in it's a fucking super good, dude Yeah, you like

01:52:29 Speaker_03
calls me he's like hey man heard you had quite an exchange with somebody and you know we don't really appreciate you know this and you know I might be out I might have to send you home I was like did she tell you what she did

01:52:44 Speaker_03
He was like, no, I just thought she got in the car and you told her like, you know, you fucking dumb, whatever. And give me your gun. I was like, no, she racked her slide into the back of my head. And he's like, Oh God, get out of here.

01:52:58 Speaker_03
I'll talk to her. It's like oh god get out of here. I'll talk to her.

01:53:03 Speaker_09
Oh Jesus forgets But it's it's like do they even have to show?

01:53:08 Speaker_10
Competency and weapons use yeah, but it's it's it. Do they go through the same sort of program?

01:53:14 Speaker_03
Everybody thinks there's like this Jason Bourne type person You know like spies are Jason Bourne or something like that. It's like it's just not fundamentally correct like any soft guy there any soft guy is so much more proficient firearms.

01:53:32 Speaker_03
I taught a selection and vetting course for former soft guys that wanted to come into the agency. And I taught it for a couple years. And I was one of the main architects behind the selection criteria. And I

01:53:49 Speaker_03
We would have to go out and train spies, and I would shoot their qualification course with my left hand Like on two hours of sleep still half in the fucking back like it's just so like ridiculously It ingrained.

01:54:06 Speaker_03
Yeah, and more importantly, it's that's not their job, right? They're they're they're collection people and i'm Defending them to a certain degree because they're very high iq their selection criteria in their courses.

01:54:16 Speaker_03
They're not prepared for that No, they they don't belong in those places like when you go into the when you go into a combat zone and when it's a very complex because there's different

01:54:31 Speaker_03
Different areas in combat zones and some of them are more dangerous than others You can't have some of those people there it's too dangerous man you got to have collection people that are on the military side that can handle themselves unilaterally and You can't have like your regular Hum hum drum spy.

01:54:52 Speaker_03
This isn't Jason Bourne. They're they're they're not Competent and more importantly that's that's not their thing. It's it's the thing of

01:54:58 Speaker_03
Proficient artisans in combat collection in the art of war and that is a very subset niche profession of guys that are Extremely competent and very dangerous.

01:55:11 Speaker_10
Why do we want to believe in a Jason Bourne? I Think it's love that.

01:55:16 Speaker_09
They love it.

01:55:17 Speaker_10
They love that narrative some super spy double-oh-seven dude that can fuck everybody up and

01:55:22 Speaker_03
It's fun, right? It's like, oh, we noticed you're a really good boxer in your local gym and you went to Yale. We're gonna recruit you. Get the fuck out of here. That's so stupid. He's a judo champion. Yeah, he's a judo champion.

01:55:37 Speaker_03
They'd always start the same way. We recruited him into the CIA.

01:55:41 Speaker_04
Oh man, we noticed you were hitting the bags and you're a political science major in Yale.

01:55:46 Speaker_10
This is a guy with glasses and a hat on watching you run around the track. I think we found our man.

01:55:53 Speaker_03
If they only knew the bureaucratic steps that it took to get into it where it's just like so much paperwork and interviews and it's like, who is this guy? What has he done?

01:56:04 Speaker_10
Well, what's wild to me is the spies that infiltrate terrorist organizations. Like there's people that are in the IDF that have infiltrated Hamas. They live with them. Lots. They're in there. Lots. Isn't that crazy?

01:56:22 Speaker_09
Yeah, it's so respectable.

01:56:23 Speaker_10
Imagine that life. That life is nuts, man. Worried you're going to be found out and these guys knowing, Hamas knowing that a certain percentage of these people have to be Israelis.

01:56:35 Speaker_03
Well, that is so crazy that they do that when you have those guys and we need those guys like I'm not oh Yeah, like we need those guys must be so exciting the non-official cover the knocks.

01:56:46 Speaker_03
Yeah, that's that I I mean that there's so much respect Well, you were explaining that one guy. That's a professor. Yeah. Well, yeah, so yeah, I mean out of all the guys like I I had such a unique

01:57:01 Speaker_03
Ride in history in times right where you know looking out the window Kind of just being a passenger in history and then being able to talk to some of these guys And I would sit down and I would always find like the older guy That's in the you know that we have like dining halls or agency has their own separate dining halls and bars and shit like that and

01:57:23 Speaker_03
and I sat down with a guy one day and This is like hey, man. What's your story?

01:57:27 Speaker_03
You know and He was telling me he was a he was an anthropology professor the University of Washington And he was he was he was finishing his PhD And he was crossing the Mackenzie Traverse in Canada And he did it in era appropriate clothing in a canoe and the whole fucking thing Right is it completely insane?

01:57:49 Speaker_03
He's like so insane and I was like, oh, how'd you get in? You know, and that's so he's making his way across He gets to a cabin He's starving. He's gonna die. He's explaining this to me. He's he's like I'm going to die I break into this trap or cabin.

01:58:06 Speaker_03
I find a bunch of old like old canned food. I Gorge, I just like engorge myself and now I have

01:58:16 Speaker_03
screaming shits and I'm like wiping my ass with this National Geographic and I pull out this ad and the agency used to have ads in National Geographic and He thought to himself wow, that's that's really interesting. I should apply so he applied and

01:58:39 Speaker_09
When he got back, imagine this scenario.

01:58:42 Speaker_10
You're fucking starving, then you're eating botulism-filled cans of beans with pork and shit, wiping your ass for the National Geographic. I mean, it's a fucking scene in a movie.

01:58:52 Speaker_03
It's insane. That's a scene in a movie, right? So he goes back to University of Washington, becomes a professor. The agency, he goes through the entire process. The agency recruits him.

01:59:02 Speaker_03
He goes through training, but still he has to keep his double life going.

01:59:08 Speaker_10
So he starts a life as a double life, in fact. Becomes a professor while he's in the agency, correct? Wow. So from the jump, he's got a double life. It's not like he gets recruited.

01:59:19 Speaker_10
He's some Nobel prize winner and they say, we need you to be for America. Yeah.

01:59:24 Speaker_03
Wow. And his first job, I'll never forget him describing this to me because I didn't know, I didn't know any of this is. So it's part history, part just agency history. And

01:59:40 Speaker_03
He goes, my first job was I flew to Angola and I just had a suitcase full of money and they dropped me off in the middle of nowhere and they're like, go kill Cubans.

01:59:52 Speaker_09
That was his job. Jesus Christ. Just a bag of money.

01:59:56 Speaker_04
That was it.

01:59:57 Speaker_09
One straight directive. Okay.

01:59:59 Speaker_03
And so in defense here, that's cool as shit. It's pretty wild. It's wild. They trust that guy. Hey, here's a bag of money. Yeah. Go kill some Cubans because you had...

02:00:14 Speaker_03
You know, it's a proxy war, right, between South Africa and the Soviets and the Cuban by proxy. They were both supporting each other. They were both supporting the communist revolution in Angola.

02:00:29 Speaker_03
So we're pushing back, from the state's perspective, we're pushing back against the Soviet intervention, which was driven from the Cubans. So you had a huge Cuban intervention. Which is something most people don't realize.

02:00:44 Speaker_03
And I just thought it was fascinating because it was the first time I'd heard about it. And here's this guy that his job was, here's a bag of money, go kill Cubans. That's your job. Wow, he's a professor. while he's a professor.

02:00:58 Speaker_03
So he'd be like going, so he would go back to, you know, whatever university and go, okay, kids, um, I know I've been out on a dig, you know, and I've been building, you know, atlatls in Australia trying to do this, but really we was in Angola hunting Cubans.

02:01:16 Speaker_09
Holy shit, that's pretty badass.

02:01:19 Speaker_10
I say that's way better than Indiana Jones as far as I'm concerned Oh, yeah, right now the chalkboard and shit thinking about gunning dudes down Okay, and then plus the five yeah who here can answer this

02:01:37 Speaker_09
Nobody, nobody, nobody can know. That's so cool.

02:01:41 Speaker_03
He never tells anybody.

02:01:42 Speaker_09
Anybody.

02:01:43 Speaker_10
No, and he's still, I mean.

02:01:45 Speaker_10
So I guess with a guy like that, if you can find a guy who's willing to wear era equivalent clothing, would you say an era correct clothing, and make his way through a trek that was most likely going to kill people in the 1800s?

02:02:02 Speaker_10
You know who did something like that? He didn't do the whole thing, but Rinella, the way I met him was he had a show before Mediator. It was called The Wild Within, and I got really addicted to it. Seriously? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:02:14 Speaker_10
I used to love, way before I ever went hunting, I used to love watching hunting shows. I used to watch like Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild. My wife was always like, what the fuck are you watching?

02:02:24 Speaker_10
But I was always obsessed with hunting shows and wilderness shows, people in the wilderness. Because every time I'm in the woods, I feel like there's a vitamin. I'm like, oh, I'm getting this vitamin.

02:02:34 Speaker_10
So I wanted to experience more of that in my life, so I was watching it on TV. So there was a show called The Wild Within. And what Ranella did was he like, I think he used like error correct weapons too.

02:02:47 Speaker_10
I think he used like a musket and he shot a bison and he turned the bison into like, I think it was a bison, whatever the animal was, he turned it into a boat. He made a boat out of it and drifted down this river.

02:02:58 Speaker_10
He did like all these things that these pioneers did back in the day when they were making their way across the country. That sounds awesome. It was pretty dope. That's how I got to meet him. That's how I got him on my podcast.

02:03:08 Speaker_10
Before Meat Eater was ever a show.

02:03:10 Speaker_04
Oh, okay.

02:03:10 Speaker_10
Yeah. He was super dismissive of podcasts. Now he's got one. I feel like there's a lot of- He was like, what am I doing here? I'm in this comedy club with this fucking dude who's smoking weed. This is ridiculous.

02:03:21 Speaker_03
I feel like there's a lot of people that probably dismissed it. They're like, oh, what the fuck is Joe doing?

02:03:25 Speaker_10
But now he's got a great podcast of his own. I love that guy to death. Oh, he's awesome. He's such a smart dude, too. He knows so many things. He's a fascinating guy to talk to, because he's super well-read.

02:03:37 Speaker_10
And he can talk to you about all kinds of shit that you would not expect from a guy who's a professional hunter.

02:03:43 Speaker_03
No.

02:03:44 Speaker_10
He talks like a PhD, but also like a hunter.

02:03:48 Speaker_10
Very unusual dude and like one of the very best guys to explain hunting Like I saw a debate that he had it was like a I think it was a book that he had released And he was doing one of those talks they do at bookstores and this guy was a vegan And the guy in the audience was a vegan the guy got upset with him And the ranella handled it so perfectly They're just the way he communicated with the guy and explaining his perspective and you have a different perspective And I'd love to have a conversation with you

02:04:16 Speaker_10
He didn't do it with any bullshit.

02:04:17 Speaker_09
Ted Nugent's like, ah, you pussy, grow it out of the vagina.

02:04:22 Speaker_10
But Ronell is the perfect answer to people that objectively, they look at it, they go, wait a minute, I do eat meat. I am a hypocrite. I am hiring a supermarket hitman.

02:04:33 Speaker_10
Why am I upset at this man who not only hunts his meat, but cooks it and writes cookbooks and cooks it on television? And this is the same thing. What are we doing here? This is so stupid.

02:04:46 Speaker_10
And then you've got the people that really believe that you shouldn't eat anything but plants, and my problem with that is I think plants are smart.

02:04:52 Speaker_10
I think they just move real slow, and I think they have a way of interacting that is noticeable and measurable. I think there's probably a consciousness to plants.

02:05:02 Speaker_10
I think life eats life, and I think that's the only way it survives, and I think that's just the way it goes. That is just the way it goes. And you can choose to just eat plants, but I don't think you're going to be as healthy. I think it's too hard.

02:05:16 Speaker_10
I think people can kind of survive on vegan diets and do well on vegan diets. There's athletes that are on vegan diets. I don't think they hit peak performance and thrive. I think that's all people who are consuming nutrient-dense meats.

02:05:30 Speaker_10
Meats and fish and eggs. Those are the people that when you look at athletes the predominant That the best athletes in every sport are all consuming protein.

02:05:40 Speaker_10
They're all consuming animal protein There's so few that are vegans that that hit elite status and maintain a lot of get injured when they switch to vegan to There's just so much in there's collagen and b12 and fucking there's so many different aspects to different amino acids

02:05:59 Speaker_10
You could have this ethical thing in your head, and I get that ethical thing. I don't want to see a thing suffer. I think plants suffer, you just don't feel it. I really do.

02:06:09 Speaker_10
I think there's a communication with them that's probably similar but different to the way we feel about animals getting killed by other animals. I think it's just a part of this whole process.

02:06:21 Speaker_10
I mean, they've shown that you can take the recordings of beetles eating leaves and play recordings of beetles eating leaves near a tree, and the tree will experience distress to the point where it changes the profile, the flavor profile of the leaves.

02:06:41 Speaker_10
It releases chemicals, these phytochemicals into the leaves that makes it disgusting for the bugs.

02:06:48 Speaker_10
And they do it with giraffes, like when giraffes eat, I think it's acacia trees, when giraffes eat acacia trees, the trees downwind all become disgusting to the point where the giraffes will starve because they won't eat it.

02:07:01 Speaker_10
They change their flavor profile to protect themselves. They release some sort of chemical that makes them inedible.

02:07:10 Speaker_03
Well, I think that's so interesting.

02:07:11 Speaker_03
I because you can see it with Who's that Paul Stamets has yes, you know when the guy is talking and communicating and the health benefits to like fungi and different plants like I think anytime you have this edict where no meat no plants no

02:07:35 Speaker_03
I think that's just another version of religious extremism, where if you were just to say, what makes sense? Morally, what am I going to have to coalesce in? For me, I don't want to be a hypocrite, so I hunt. That's the way it is.

02:07:54 Speaker_03
We eat a ton of wild meat. I'm not a hypocrite. We eat meat. I love fish. I love fruits and vegetables. Think if you're making this determination where there's no meat This is the only thing I'm going to eat. Well one.

02:08:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, that's a lot of time and effort and energy that you're spending specifically on your diet constraints that could be allocated to Being a better dad or maybe they could do all those things too, so maybe I don't know I think

02:08:28 Speaker_10
Their philosophical point is a good one. I think their ethics, the morals, their perspective is that I want to live a life with the least suffering possible. I think that's noble. I really do. I think the problem is life eats life.

02:08:47 Speaker_10
And I think that's the real problem. And I think the problem is if you're buying just vegetables in the store, boy, you need to take a good look at monocrop agriculture because it's fucking bananas. You know, there was Taylor Sheridan in Yellowstone.

02:09:00 Speaker_10
There was a scene where Kevin Costner was talking to the hippie lady who's trying to shut down ranches and shit. I forget what her thing was. But he was explaining how if you're on a vegan diet, you want to kill the most things, become a vegan.

02:09:14 Speaker_10
Because you don't understand. One life is one life, OK? If the life of a gopher and the life of an elk are the same thing, then why wouldn't they be? You have no idea how many things have to fucking die to make monocrop agriculture. It's a bloodbath.

02:09:30 Speaker_10
They kill everything. They kill groundhogs, ground squirrels, you fucking name it. Ground nesting birds, fawns, everything gets gobbled up by combines. It's an enormous industrial operation. It's not natural. So now you're limited to organic plants.

02:09:49 Speaker_10
So if you're growing all of your own food and you're growing a lot of soybeans, a lot of different things like If you grow hemp, if you're in a place where you can grow it legally, hemp is actually a really good source of protein.

02:09:59 Speaker_10
It's actually got a really complete amino acid profile. You can, you know, you can survive, you can do it that way, but if you're a regular vegan, if you're just a person who's like, I get vegan pizza at the supermarket, shut the fuck up.

02:10:11 Speaker_10
You're contributing to this mass slaughter of small animals. You're just not aware of it.

02:10:17 Speaker_03
Have you watched that Netflix docu-series on, it's basically vegan propaganda, I forget what it's named.

02:10:24 Speaker_10
Is it The Game Changers? That one?

02:10:26 Speaker_03
Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you watch that?

02:10:28 Speaker_10
Yeah, I know the guy who did it. I had him on.

02:10:33 Speaker_03
I thought it was fascinating, like from a wide variety of reasons, but more importantly, so I went and got some vegan cheese. And I was like, tried it.

02:10:42 Speaker_03
I was like, okay, it's not bad, but I mean, dude, it's a laundry list of ingredients associated with making this, which seems pretty insane to me versus what's the ingredient on a good cheese? Milk. Right.

02:11:02 Speaker_03
This thing's like a dissertation of ingredients.

02:11:05 Speaker_10
And it's so processed. That is literally what it is. If you want to be, I said that a million times, you want to be a vegetarian, eat Indian food. They make delicious, delicious vegetarian food. You don't have to eat fucking vegan cheese.

02:11:19 Speaker_09
Stop pretending.

02:11:20 Speaker_10
Stop lying. Stop eating Tofutti or whatever the fuck that shit is. Get out of here. Get out of it. Get the fuck out of here. That's nonsense. What are you eating? And also, eat mollusks. People should look into that. Those things are so primitive.

02:11:33 Speaker_10
They're way more primitive than plants. We just have a problem with them moving. That's all it is. If people, like, they don't even have nerves. They don't feel pain. They're fucking the simplest of organisms, yet their protein is like animal protein.

02:11:47 Speaker_10
It's really good for you.

02:11:49 Speaker_03
Do you eat oysters? Oh, yeah.

02:11:50 Speaker_10
I eat the fuck out of oysters. Never down that I hear about some dude dying. Snails? Yeah, I eat escargot. But every now and then I hear about a dude dying from oysters.

02:11:57 Speaker_03
So we were in Normandy. This is super funny, funny story. So I went out to the 80th anniversary for the Normandy invasion, took a bunch of dudes out there.

02:12:08 Speaker_03
And my kids and I are out on this beach and I'm taking my pocket knife out and I'm just chopping the oysters off the rocks and eating oysters straight out of the ocean. And my girls are running away from me.

02:12:22 Speaker_03
They're like, this is the grossest shit I've ever seen. And then pretty soon they got into it. So then they're trying to find me the oysters to bring them back and show me where they are. My wife was like, You're gonna fucking die.

02:12:36 Speaker_03
You're gonna poison yourself. You're eating these right out of Normandy. It's one of the beaches out there. It's all the munitions are in the water. Yeah, I'm like, I don't give a shit. And then I had to, I'm eating them.

02:12:47 Speaker_03
And then I quickly searched, hey, are there any toxins? After I've eaten like three. Are there any toxins in the oysters in Normandy? Thank God. It was like, you know. I live on the edge here.

02:13:06 Speaker_10
Yeah, when I lived in San Francisco, you could collect muscles. There was like muscles that were on the rocks. But then I think I brought them home once, but then I found out that there's like a couple months out of the year that they're poison.

02:13:19 Speaker_10
You get like red tide, right? Yeah. So I was like, like I dodged the bullet, but I was like, what's that bullet? Because you could just go find muscles and pluck them off of things.

02:13:29 Speaker_03
Let me ask you this. If you were to move back to California, okay, but to take Texas politics with you.

02:13:40 Speaker_10
That's not really possible.

02:13:41 Speaker_03
But if it were. If it was?

02:13:43 Speaker_10
I'm taking you on an imaginary journey. Would I move? Yeah, yeah. No. No. I like it here. You like the weather? I like everything. I like the size of it. I like the way people behave. People are super friendly. I like the scene here.

02:13:57 Speaker_10
The restaurant scene's amazing. The comedy scene's amazing. Live music. Bunch of cool people now like so so many of my friends moved here. I love it here.

02:14:07 Speaker_10
Yeah, I just love the vibe I love that it's you know, it's I love that we're not connected to the Hollywood machine just there's like a pool of Deals and shows and things that you get roped into doing because you think about the money they'll pay you, right?

02:14:24 Speaker_07
Oh

02:14:25 Speaker_10
And then you wind up becoming one of those people. You have to say what they say. If you're not politically aligned with them, you're going to lose gigs. You change your behavior. I see it with so many comics. They're really good comics coming up.

02:14:43 Speaker_10
They're like, wow, this guy's going to be good. He's really good. He's getting better all the time. And then they get a fucking show.

02:14:49 Speaker_10
they get a show and then they tone everything down and everything gets softer and everything you know you start seeing some like bullshit jokes in there like oh you decided to cover this joke cover this subject just for like just for like street cred progressive street cred and like you see it happen you're like ah you got called into the rocks

02:15:10 Speaker_10
The sirens, they call you into the rocks. That's what it is, man. They call you into the rocks. You stop being you. You stop being you because they dangle that carrot in front of your face. And there's no carrot out here.

02:15:22 Speaker_10
The carrot is just podcasts and other comics. So that's way better. There's no control. There's no manipulation. There's no someone's dangling this over you. You have to agree with what I agree with. No one cares at all about any of that stuff here.

02:15:41 Speaker_03
It's freedom. And we were talking about it the other, I think it was today, right, where it was like, another comic was like, Oh, can you believe they're a Democrat? Like, no, it's weird, like, or whatever, right? You know, but it's,

02:15:56 Speaker_03
It's fine in the context of, I think, being a conservative, because I don't necessarily say I'm a Republican. I'm like, I just believe in less government. I don't like bureaucrats at all. I have a high degree of skepticism on anything that they say.

02:16:11 Speaker_03
And I typically will question anything an elected official will say. So for me, I'm like, I don't care if the guy next to me is going to vote for whatever Alternate politician I care about like what are their ideas? Why do they think a certain way?

02:16:32 Speaker_03
What are they doing? Like what kind of a human are they and what is the character of the individual? What am I gonna disagree with him? Yeah, but Who the fuck cares?

02:16:41 Speaker_03
like it's kind of fun like it's kind of fun to disagree with people and debate them and have a Different opinion versus being in an echo chamber where people all agree and they're all kind of lockstep in their belief system It's kind of fun to have some wingnut

02:16:55 Speaker_03
talking about socialism half the time. You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? You believe in that?

02:17:01 Speaker_10
It's like some Orwellian nightmare, man. And if you could have a conversation with someone where you're friendly with each other and completely disagree, it's a beautiful dance.

02:17:09 Speaker_10
It's a fun dance to talk to people that have just completely different perspectives, but you're not rude to them. You just ask them, well, why do you think that? Did you ever consider this?

02:17:20 Speaker_10
And you have conversations like two normal people just having a conversation. Okay. All right. So that's what you think. Huh. What was your childhood like? Get into it. What are we dealing with here? Why do you have this perspective?

02:17:33 Speaker_10
You have to be able to talk to each other. There's a bunch of people that we hang out with that have totally different opinions on all kinds of things. My friend Josh, who was here the other day, love him to death, he told me he voted for Jill Stein.

02:17:46 Speaker_10
He said he voted for Jill Stein just like a protest vote. Wow. I think the two-party system's stupid. Yeah, I get it. Look, I voted for two Libertarian candidates in a row. So I voted for Gary Johnson, and then I voted for Joe Jorgensen. Why?

02:18:04 Speaker_10
Because I was like, this whole thing's gross. But that's like California. I knew it was going to be blue anyway. California's always blue. It was like a legitimate protest vote.

02:18:14 Speaker_10
And I guess he was in Florida, so that's a legitimate protest vote, if you want to put that to me. It's gonna go red anyway, whether you like it or not. It's gonna go red. Yeah, Florida goes red. Hard. When they saw Miami go red, they're like, oh boy.

02:18:28 Speaker_10
Oh boy. And one of the things that they were saying, like the whole, like what goes red and what goes Like, if you look at the country, like, California is way more red now than it's ever been in the last four years. I didn't know that.

02:18:43 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's a big difference. If you look at there's a map of California, how it voted from 2020 to 2024, it's a giant swing. It's like, it's the reds going like this. See if you can find it, Jamie. It's very interesting.

02:18:59 Speaker_10
That's not because people have been radicalized. That's because the left has gone fucking cuckoo. You guys have gone crazy, and you're authoritarians. You want everybody to behave and believe and think and talk the way you do, or else. Look at that.

02:19:16 Speaker_10
Look at the difference. Holy shit. Holy shit, dude.

02:19:20 Speaker_09
That is wild.

02:19:21 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's most of California by landmass, by far. It's probably 70% by landmass or 60%.

02:19:27 Speaker_03
What is that blue up there on the east side? What is that close to? Is that like Tahoe? That's probably where they grow the weed, son. Oh, yeah. What is that? What is that? Where are you guys at? You guys got to be like Tahoe. What is that one?

02:19:42 Speaker_03
That's got to be like Truckee or something.

02:19:44 Speaker_10
You got a shot at Walker these fuckers there it goes oh these fuckers oh You have to get a sing yeah, go to the other just the image just the image right see I've thought about this because I always tell people California is my my favorite climate.

02:20:01 Speaker_03
Yeah in the nation.

02:20:02 Speaker_10
It's the best Yeah, that's it. So what's the one in the upper? Well? It's not The one that's blue Yeah, I guarantee that's where they grow the weed yeah, there's they want to keep everything nice and quiet up there Everybody shut the fuck man.

02:20:20 Speaker_09
We don't want these guys to like criminalize weed again. Where's humble Jamie? Where's humble north up here somewhere up there?

02:20:27 Speaker_10
That's where they grow all the best weed That's where they have problems with the cartel to cartel grows weed up there, too. Oh

02:20:32 Speaker_03
The cartel grows weed in California. Oh, yeah. That's what I was gonna. That's what I wanted to ask you was about the cartel. Do you think that they're really gonna? That one was Humboldt, the one you guys were asking.

02:20:42 Speaker_09
It was Humboldt!

02:20:43 Speaker_03
Oh, shit. Okay, there we go.

02:20:46 Speaker_10
You're right. Yeah, they grow all the weed, son. There you go. Yeah, there's a dude named John Norris who's been on the podcast. He wrote a book called Hidden Wars, and he was a game warden.

02:20:56 Speaker_10
So he's just thinking he's gonna go around checking fishing licenses and shit like that, and then one day they find a creek that's been diverted, so they have to follow the creek.

02:21:04 Speaker_10
They thought maybe a farmer had dammed the creek somewhere and done something to get water illegally. He goes up there and he finds these PVC pipes, and it reads this giant grow op, and it's all cartel guys.

02:21:17 Speaker_10
And so this guy's job changes from being a game warden, let me check your fishing line, to running a fucking tactical unit. They had attack dogs. They had attack dogs. They had fucking shootouts with the cartel in the woods over weed.

02:21:31 Speaker_10
Because here's what happened. California made weed legal in the state, but made growing it a misdemeanor if you grow it illegally. So if you are a person who's doing it legally, you can grow it and you can sell it if you have a license.

02:21:45 Speaker_10
You can open up a shop and you can sell it. They tax the shit out of it. It's great for everybody. But the problem is you made growing it illegally a misdemeanor.

02:21:54 Speaker_10
So then the cartel just starts growing it everywhere in the national forests because even if the guys get arrested, Nothing happens. It's a misdemeanor, so it's nothing.

02:22:03 Speaker_10
So they're using these crazy toxic poison pesticides, all this shit that's totally illegal to use on regular crops in America. And 90% of the illegal weed that's being bought around the country is coming from them. Holy shit, I didn't know that.

02:22:19 Speaker_10
And they're doing it all in national forests, and they're doing most of it in California. Dude, they find these, my friend found one. You know him, Cody. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He found a fucking grow-up on Tahone Ranch.

02:22:32 Speaker_09
Really? Yes. Oh my gosh, that's right.

02:22:35 Speaker_10
Yes, he found a cartel grow-up on Tahone Ranch. This guy carried in pipes on his shoulder. And diverted a stream. Deep into the woods, diverted a stream. Then there was this whole field of weed these guys had planted out there.

02:22:52 Speaker_10
They were camping out there.

02:22:53 Speaker_03
They had little religious Symbols and shit like that by their bed to protect them like the Virgin Mary and shit What do you think I've heard this is what I want to talk to you about because it pertains to the cartel It's like what do you think about releasing steel team six and Delta Force on the cartels?

02:23:08 Speaker_03
What do you think that looks like? Well, I think you've solved one problem.

02:23:12 Speaker_09
What's the problem?

02:23:14 Speaker_10
You no longer have distribution, but you still have a demand. You still have a demand. Yeah. The real problem is there's always going to be a demand. The real problem, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that idea, by the way. Okay.

02:23:26 Speaker_10
I like that idea. Yeah. But the problem with that idea is you're always going to have a demand. And if you're going to have a demand, someone's going to fulfill that demand. And who the fuck is that going to be? How are they going to get the coke in?

02:23:35 Speaker_10
You're not going to just not have coke. So here's the question. By having prohibition of alcohol in the United States, it's widely agreed that that led to the rise of the mafia.

02:23:48 Speaker_10
Bootleggers, the mafia, criminal organizations that were organized crime that went on to do a bunch of other horrible things inside our country, and they were built up with money because alcohol was illegal.

02:24:00 Speaker_10
The moment alcohol stopped being illegal, you still have these people with all this money now. You fucked up.

02:24:04 Speaker_10
Now they're organized gangsters, and now, you know, okay, alcohol's legal now, so they're just gonna sell it legally, and they have millions and millions of dollars from a life of crime. You've already done that with the cartel.

02:24:14 Speaker_10
You've got to do something. You've got to do something. And you probably also should legalize drugs. I don't think you should take drugs. I think coke is probably terrible for almost everybody. I think meth is probably terrible. Do people still do cocaine?

02:24:29 Speaker_10
Absolutely.

02:24:31 Speaker_09
Really?

02:24:31 Speaker_10
I know people who do it. The growing Chinese investment in illegal American weed. Of course.

02:24:36 Speaker_06
Why wouldn't they get in on it? Check out this number that it says here. Of the 2,000 far sorry of the 800 farms the OBS in Oklahoma the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics has shut down in the last two years 75% were linked to China.

02:24:50 Speaker_10
Oh my god. China's have grown weed here They're growing weed here.

02:24:54 Speaker_03
Oh my thinking about that I was thinking about this from the thought exercise where I'm like cuz I you know, I I know these units I'm intimately familiar with them. Uh-huh

02:25:09 Speaker_03
If we declare war on the cartel like these these dudes are not gonna understand What the fuck is going on? No, of course they are they are gonna be because

02:25:21 Speaker_10
God you'll stop those guys.

02:25:24 Speaker_03
That's gonna be yeah, they are in for a world of Like ultra violence. They've never actually felt before because it obviously this is a very capable.

02:25:34 Speaker_03
It's a violent organization They have fucking no clue if we organize these tier one units against them This is gonna be

02:25:43 Speaker_03
What I would be doing if I was down there, I'm like, I know all those shoe boxes in my fucking, you know, my walls that I'm gonna have to collect up. I'd be getting ready to retire right now. That's what I would be doing.

02:25:52 Speaker_03
Because if Delta Force is hunting me, bro, I would be so terrified.

02:25:57 Speaker_09
Is that a real thing that they've proposed doing?

02:26:00 Speaker_03
Yes, that is a real thing.

02:26:02 Speaker_09
Who proposed that?

02:26:03 Speaker_03
I'm almost positive either JD or Trump had said something with the new guy from ICE, like we're gonna mobilize tier one units against the cartel. the only thing I thought was like retire if You guys got some money man. I would like put that away.

02:26:22 Speaker_03
You know like maybe move, Jamaica Go somewhere. Yeah, buy a restaurant like try to go legit because dude if those guys are hunting you oh By the way, you're done. You're fucking done.

02:26:36 Speaker_09
And it's a weird thing that that's going on right at our border.

02:26:39 Speaker_10
So strange. It's a weird thing. Because it's so close to us, and it's so ultra-violent and dangerous, and it's just completely shaped the way the entire economy of the country works.

02:26:50 Speaker_10
They have so much power and control, and it's a criminal organization that is entirely, almost entirely at least, funded by us. by our desire. Trump declares war on cartels.

02:27:02 Speaker_10
President-elect said notorious crime syndicates and drug kingpins will never sleep soundly again once he launches his plans to tackle the issue.

02:27:10 Speaker_03
I thought about this for a long time, where I'm like, if they turned loose Delta Force and SEAL Team 6 on cartels and pedophiles, we could just kind of like erase the problem in about two years. It would be gone.

02:27:25 Speaker_10
He wants to send troops to Mexico. He said it would make appropriate use of special forces, cyber warfare, and other overt and covert actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations. Oh, Jesus.

02:27:38 Speaker_10
It is going to get wild January 20th. It's going to get wild, man. It is going to get wild. Very interesting. But the thing is, inaction is action as well when it comes to this. You're going to continue to prop them up.

02:27:52 Speaker_10
They're going to get more and more power and more and more money, and we've got to figure out why everybody wants Coke. What the fuck is it? You think it's coke? I think that's the big one. I'm pretty sure it's the big one. I'm sure a lot of it is pills.

02:28:04 Speaker_10
They have fake pills. They sell street pills, different anti-anxiety medications, molly. There's a lot of stuff they sell that's also laced up with fentanyl. which is responsible for who knows how many tens of thousands of young people die.

02:28:20 Speaker_03
It's like 200,000 people is what they're saying. Is fentanyl responsible for that?

02:28:24 Speaker_10
Crazy high. Crazy high. It's insane. It's a horrific thing, and it's gotten to the point where people are scared to try any kind of drug because they're thinking fentanyl. They found fentanyl in weed. You know what? Yes, they've found fentanyl laced weed.

02:28:37 Speaker_10
Yeah People are dumb as shit man.

02:28:40 Speaker_10
You don't think they'll try putting fentanyl and weed people are dumb as shit They'll try all kinds of things people are retarded I know people that have mixed mao inhibitors and mushrooms and acid all together Like what are you doing?

02:28:54 Speaker_10
Are you trying to go to space? Like what are you doing, man? Jesus Christ, you're just experimenting in your brain?

02:29:01 Speaker_03
What is an MAO inhibitor? What did you just say?

02:29:03 Speaker_10
An MAO inhibitor, monoamine oxidase inhibitor, it's the ingredient in ayahuasca that makes DMT orally active. Monoamine oxidase breaks down DMT in the gut. That's why when you eat, like if you eat a salad, that's why you don't trip balls.

02:29:19 Speaker_03
Got it, okay.

02:29:20 Speaker_10
Because otherwise, some crazy number of plants have DMT in it. So, like how many plants have DMT in it? I think it's like a thousand or something nutty like that.

02:29:31 Speaker_03
When you think about the legalization of psilocybin. Yeah. So, Texas, and this is what I know about Texas because they're leading, I think, a lot of research specifically related to vets. Apparently, the former governor Rick Scott is really into this.

02:29:46 Speaker_03
Rick Perry. Rick Perry, excuse me. Rick Perry, because of his relationship with Marcus Luttrell and some of the other guys in the community, He has been leading the charge on this.

02:29:57 Speaker_03
Do you think that from psilocybin being legal in the United States, do you think it would be an issue? Do you think it'd be an issue at all?

02:30:06 Speaker_10
I don't know because... You're gonna get people trying it they wouldn't try it before. You're gonna get people that use it irresponsibly. Just like you get people that drink irresponsibly.

02:30:15 Speaker_10
I think that's the situation that we find ourselves in if we're gonna give people personal freedom. They're gonna make bad decisions. You know, you can buy a Corvette, right?

02:30:23 Speaker_10
You can go to the Chevrolet dealership, buy a Corvette right off the lot that goes zero to 60 in four seconds, and you're flying around corners. You could be a fucking maniac and kill people in a Corvette

02:30:37 Speaker_10
Or you could just enjoy it on the highway and be responsible and say, wow, what a great car. This thing's awesome. I love it. And you don't cause any problems for anybody. Both things are possible. That's what's going to happen if we make drugs legal.

02:30:51 Speaker_10
You're going to have people try those drugs that probably shouldn't be trying those drugs.

02:30:54 Speaker_10
You're going to have people get addicted to those drugs that maybe wouldn't have gotten addicted if those drugs weren't available to them, especially if they weren't legal, if you could just buy it somewhere.

02:31:04 Speaker_10
But if you don't rip the fucking band-aid off of this infantilization of society and let people know that there are things out there that they're telling you you can't do, and the people who are telling you you can't do them haven't even experienced them.

02:31:21 Speaker_10
And when it comes to things like psilocybin and psychedelics, if you haven't experienced them, you really shouldn't be talking about them. You have no idea what you're talking about. You can't possibly know. You can't know.

02:31:33 Speaker_10
And if you have experienced them, then you're probably going to agree with me. You're probably going to agree that there's some serious benefits to it. I thought it was a lot more than that. At least 50.

02:31:46 Speaker_10
I had read something that was like in the hundreds.

02:31:50 Speaker_06
I can't find a solid number. I mean it's in a lot of stuff.

02:31:53 Speaker_10
So the point is, like I know Phalaris grass is like really rich with DMT and that's also the acacia tree.

02:31:59 Speaker_10
That's what one, when they connected, there's like a university in Jerusalem that connected this idea of Moses and the burning bush to a DMT tree. Oh right.

02:32:09 Speaker_10
because the acacia tree is rich in DMT and the idea of burning it, you see God and God gives you this message and tells you what to do and what the rules of behavior are.

02:32:19 Speaker_10
I think anybody telling you that these things should get you locked up has clearly never experienced them.

02:32:25 Speaker_03
No, they never have. I spent all of my life with a top secret security clearance, most of my life, from my 20s to my 40s. And my personal experience with them, this is before we went public, but...

02:32:45 Speaker_03
My personal experience with them was my, you know, my problems were rep after rep, cycle after cycle of combat after, like, relatively high stress scenario after scenario after scenario. And I was having a really, really hard time

02:33:07 Speaker_03
Trying to directly connect with love I actually Could not connect with that experience.

02:33:14 Speaker_03
It was really difficult and My wife and I were going we were going through this this ongoing debate and dialogue with it And she's like you need to try it and we tried it and it fast forward probably 20 years of talk therapy for me personally.

02:33:36 Speaker_03
And it gave me this like direct connection with this feeling that I hadn't felt for years.

02:33:43 Speaker_03
And this is the feeling, and this is my point with vets and especially from the combat vets, the guys have got rep after rep after rep with overpressure and explosions and a lot of violence.

02:33:57 Speaker_03
is that they lose context with this really important feeling that you have to have, which is you have to have direct love for your family, for your spouse, for yourself. And if you've killed that, by all of the things that you've done.

02:34:16 Speaker_03
You've built a scaffolding, this artificial scaffolding on top of this. It creates a callus and you got to be able to break through that. From a psychological perspective, an emotional perspective, it accelerates that back and you can kind of reset.

02:34:36 Speaker_03
You really can. Yeah, I can't imagine I You know, I was thinking about this for like my dad's like 80 years old, right? Like man if He's got he's got lung cancer now and I'm like gosh if he could like coalesce Around

02:34:56 Speaker_03
killing ego and past and try to understand himself from a different, more introspective way. This would take decades, maybe, of talk therapy or session where you could you could really Accelerate your growth as an individual.

02:35:15 Speaker_03
I think that's what for G watt vets and for vets in general I mean, I think that's what they're they're missing this key component is being able to retouch with their emotional strength and be able to balance these things out where You can evolve and live your life.

02:35:35 Speaker_03
I do you think you've said it before? I don't know if you said on a show, but do you think Society would benefit from it.

02:35:41 Speaker_10
I think a lot of people would benefit from it But I think a lot of people wouldn't I don't think people with real psychological disorders should be doing it, right?

02:35:52 Speaker_10
You know, I think people that are really fucked up and having a hard time with schizophrenics people, you know, I don't know I think it's probably dangerous for you. I think it's probably a bit of a stress test for your psyche and

02:36:03 Speaker_10
You know, you hear about these stories like the guy from Pink Floyd that dropped acid and freaked out and never came back. There's those stories. Like we hear those stories of guys who just go out there and kind of you lose them.

02:36:16 Speaker_10
I've kind of seen it with some people. I've seen one kid who was just smoking a ton of weed and just lost his mind and became schizophrenic. And you don't know. Did he have a tendency towards schizophrenia already? Did he fall prey?

02:36:29 Speaker_10
Was it just his unique biochemistry and how he interacted with weed? Was it just inveterate weed use? I mean, he was every day smoking weed constantly. What is it? What caused him to crack? You know? I don't know. I don't know.

02:36:42 Speaker_10
But I don't have that problem. And I think it's very beneficial. And I don't like when people tell me that because someone has a problem with something that I shouldn't do it. I don't agree with that.

02:36:54 Speaker_10
I think you should be allowed to take chances as a person. I think if you want to do BMX jumps and fucking do flips on your bike, you should be allowed to do it. You want to do jujitsu and have grown men try to kill you? Go ahead. Go do it.

02:37:03 Speaker_10
Do whatever the fuck you want to do. I don't think anybody should be able to tell you what you can and can't do. But why does that change?

02:37:10 Speaker_10
When you talk about substances that someone puts in their body, well, because those people could do those and then they could commit crimes. But those are already crimes. Like you already go to jail for those crimes.

02:37:19 Speaker_10
So if you do something violent because you're on a drug, you're going to jail because you did something violent. There's a crime, you committed that crime, you go to jail. So we already have laws that address all the problems.

02:37:31 Speaker_10
And you're assuming that more problems would occur. We don't know that. We don't know that. We don't know that more people won't chill the fuck out and would have a dramatic decrease in violence across the country. Imagine that.

02:37:42 Speaker_10
Imagine you have a few people that lose their fucking mind but you have a dramatic increase in consciousness through the entire country where people develop like a mushroom culture and people start like micro dosing all the time and people get way more comfortable with talking to each other.

02:37:58 Speaker_10
Way more creative way more like community oriented and love oriented. That's not a bad thing. Yeah, that's that's a real possibility with something that exists right now.

02:38:11 Speaker_10
There's a happy pill It's out there and it's illegal and it's God made it God made it and it's probably the source of most religious experiences There's probably some sort of a connection to a lot of those religious experience or experiences rather and what was probably some sort of a psychedelic adventure that they went on

02:38:33 Speaker_10
And who's to say that that's not even how you talk to God in the first place? We don't know because it's been held back from us. It's been kept from us like we're a bunch of babies.

02:38:42 Speaker_10
It's something that human beings have used for thousands and thousands of years. The Greeks used psychedelics to start democracy.

02:38:50 Speaker_10
And yet here we are in the greatest democracy the world's ever known, in 2024, with full access to the internet, all the data that's available, all the anecdotal stories, and it'll get you locked in a fucking cage. That's nuts. That's really crazy.

02:39:06 Speaker_10
It's completely insane. That doesn't make no sense. I've tried to look at it from all different ways. I do agree with you when people say, if you make cocaine legal, people are going to die. Unfortunately, I agree with you.

02:39:17 Speaker_10
But if you don't make cocaine legal, people are also going to die. I don't know which one is more. And I don't know if it was just real cocaine versus cocaine mixed with a bunch of other horrible shit, if the real cocaine wouldn't kill as many people.

02:39:33 Speaker_10
I don't know how many people are dying just of cocaine and how many people are dying of fentanyl-laced cocaine. I bet it's way more fentanyl-laced cocaine.

02:39:40 Speaker_10
So if you have just pure cocaine and the same amount of users, you're going to get way less deaths. So that's a net positive.

02:39:46 Speaker_10
Then you take taxes from that sale of that legal cocaine and you use it to sell rehabilitation centers where you give them Ibogaine. give people the ability to break addictions. It's possible. People do it. They go to Mexico, kick opioids.

02:40:02 Speaker_10
People do it all the time. My friend Ed Clay did it. That's how he got into it. He started his own clinic because he went down there because he had a pill problem. You get an injury, you're doing jujitsu, you're always fucking hurt.

02:40:14 Speaker_10
These guys get a disc problem and their arm's all fucked up. They take a little pill. You feel better. But then you need three pills. Then you need four. Now you're fucked. And now there's nothing to help you other than Ibogaine. And that's illegal.

02:40:27 Speaker_10
So you make that legal too. So with those two together, who knows? You might have way less deaths. And then you would have taxes that you could take from that stuff and use for all sorts of things. It would be horrible for taxes from

02:40:42 Speaker_10
cocaine sales to fix the schools, but what if that's what did it? What if that's what did it? And what if the exact same amount of people buying cocaine are still buying cocaine? What if that is the fix? And what if

02:40:55 Speaker_10
responsible use of drugs, all kinds of drugs. Sure, don't drive a car when you're coked up. Don't take heroin and fly your plane. No. Responsible use, just like responsible use of alcohol. Why is that so crazy for us? Why is that so alien?

02:41:09 Speaker_10
Because we've been turned into babies. We've been turned into babies where you're allowed to take pharmaceutical drugs that make you high as fuck.

02:41:18 Speaker_10
Whether it's high as fuck on Adderall or high as fuck on opiate, that's fine, but you can't go out and get yourself some mushrooms. That's just crazy.

02:41:29 Speaker_10
And for these people that are the ones in charge that are making all the money from these decisions to keep up with this insanity in the internet in 2024 in this tide of change, I feel the same way about them as you feel about those poor cartel members.

02:41:43 Speaker_10
Like, you probably should be doing something else. What is this? What, weed and fentanyl? Short answer is they're false. There's no solid evidence that marijuana is being laced with fentanyl. Here's some of the reasons why.

02:42:01 Speaker_10
Didn't someone get caught with it though?

02:42:04 Speaker_06
At the bottom it says that there's been a few publicly stated like media stories that have said it's that's what the case was.

02:42:10 Speaker_10
I think we were talking about one then they said there was weed that was laced with fentanyl that someone got arrested for.

02:42:16 Speaker_06
Lab test claims that they were errors and then the corrections don't make the headlines.

02:42:22 Speaker_10
How do you get an error? How much fentanyl is out there that's an error? Oh, it was just contamination. It wasn't the weed that had fentanyl. Fentanyl's all over the place.

02:42:30 Speaker_06
It could have just been a field test. They could have just been like, does this have fentanyl on it? They rub the weed, and the weed comes back like, yep, someone touched fentanyl, and they touched the weed, and now you've got fentanyl-laced weed.

02:42:38 Speaker_10
Wow, it could be that me that actually does make sense right because if you think it's some cracked-out dude work He's probably gonna be doing fentanyl.

02:42:47 Speaker_03
Yeah, he's gonna be doing fentanyl. He's gonna be he's gonna be all on everything basically So it's not positive on everything he guys in a tent.

02:42:55 Speaker_10
He's on a tent in the fucking woods with a little Virgin Mary statue Like for real. I know. Candles. Having shootouts with the fucking cops. It's so crazy that that's going on and that there's hundreds of them and that the Chinese are running them.

02:43:11 Speaker_03
Like this is the most insane part where it's like everybody knows what's going on. It's like all these chemicals are coming from China. They're being offloaded into Mexico and South America.

02:43:21 Speaker_03
They're being produced and then they're pushed across the border. Everybody knows.

02:43:26 Speaker_10
Do you ever talk to Mike Baker about any of this stuff?

02:43:29 Speaker_03
No, I've never actually talked to Mike Baker. Do you know him? You've never met him? No, I've never met him.

02:43:34 Speaker_10
Oh my God, I've got to bring you two guys together. I love that dude. But one of the things he was telling me was about the Chinese cell phone towers, like cheaper. They're like, you just buy ours. We're not going to listen to you.

02:43:46 Speaker_10
And they put them all around military bases.

02:43:48 Speaker_03
We promise we're not going to listen to you. Hey guys, the Chinese said they're not going to listen to us. I mean, that's good enough for me.

02:43:54 Speaker_10
They're around this nuclear weapons facility. Of course. They're all over the place. And then they buy land, like Dr. Phil was highlighting that. They buy land right next to military bases. How fucking silly are we? We're so silly.

02:44:08 Speaker_10
Like someone's moving our chest pieces around like, oh, this isn't happening. This isn't even happening. People don't think like that. There's no way they'd be buying up all the weed.

02:44:17 Speaker_10
There's no way they'd be buying up all the farmland right next to the military.

02:44:20 Speaker_03
There's no way they would be exporting chemicals so they could manufacture fentanyl to come in and basically eviscerate 200,000 fucking people.

02:44:28 Speaker_09
There's no way they would do that.

02:44:29 Speaker_03
There's no way.

02:44:31 Speaker_10
That's crazy to even think. Meanwhile, the only way you get those chemicals from China, the only way you get them is from China. They send them to Mexico, they cook it up, they send it our way.

02:44:41 Speaker_03
But no, there's no way the Chinese are thinking that maliciously. There's no way. There's no way.

02:44:46 Speaker_10
Well, aren't they still mad at us for the opium wars?

02:44:51 Speaker_03
I think the Chinese are not necessarily mad at us. They're just thinking about themselves from a hundred year vision and they're saying, okay, where do we...

02:45:01 Speaker_03
Where and how do we ascend to being able to take America's place as the international superpower? So, I don't know if they necessarily have an opinion-based ax to grind.

02:45:17 Speaker_03
It's more about how do we put the pieces together to take the pole position away from the United States.

02:45:24 Speaker_10
I'm sure that's their primary goal. But I do remember reading something where they were talking about, was it British? There was people that introduced opium to the Chinese, like on purpose. It was like a campaign. The first opium war, 1800s.

02:45:42 Speaker_02
Okay.

02:45:43 Speaker_10
Britain, the war was triggered by China's efforts to enforce its ban on opium. The British responded by sending a naval expedition to force China to pay reparations and allow the opium trade. Yeah.

02:45:56 Speaker_10
So the British wanted to keep that fucking dope flowing in that wild. They went to war to keep the dope flowing. This is what people have to recognize about Afghanistan too. Yeah.

02:46:09 Speaker_10
This is something that it sounds so conspiracy theory that no one even wants to touch it. But the troops had to guard the poppy fields. Afghanistan, heroin went way up when we went in there. Went way, way up. Their production went way up.

02:46:25 Speaker_10
They were supplying at one point in time ... What was the number, Jamie?

02:46:29 Speaker_03
What percentage?

02:46:30 Speaker_10
Was that what it was? 70% of the world's heroin was coming out of a place that we had occupied.

02:46:39 Speaker_03
You know, the Taliban was using the opium and essentially to fund their growth in their militia. So the DEA was out there. So you had the DEA out in Afghanistan doing direct action ops.

02:46:55 Speaker_03
And you had soft guys that were going out, walking through poppy fields and marijuana fields and all these other things, then you'd pass it off to the DEA. 90 percent. Oh 95. Yeah in 2021 90 percent 90 percent.

02:47:09 Speaker_03
Holy shit Holy shit, you destabilize the entire country you deter everyone from actually Focusing on the opium you focus on terrorism and the taliban and then you allow it to flourish and the the dirty secret nobody wants to talk about from from that from that perspective is is that we've we as a country

02:47:34 Speaker_03
have dealt with a lot of shady opium dealers, like drug lords that were essentially exporting opium. And if they weren't part of the Taliban and or if they were anti-Taliban, you'd do business with them. It's the same story. Yeah.

02:47:48 Speaker_03
What's your triage priorities? So, you know, how? Hey, we need to get, you know, we need to fund our army in South America. So, hey, how do we do that? Let's let's let's let's import some coca.

02:48:04 Speaker_03
You know, it's invent a market because we got to get you know, we got to push back against the commies in nicaragua It's the same story.

02:48:12 Speaker_10
It's you know, i've had freeway ricky ross on like oh seriously times. I had him on recently I had him on recently. Yeah And he was the guy he was the guy who's making millions millions and millions and millions of dollars.

02:48:25 Speaker_10
He couldn't read He was making millions of dollars selling coke for the fucking government Myanmar overtakes Afghanistan in the world's top opium producer.

02:48:35 Speaker_10
Violent political turmoil in Myanmar in years since 2021 coup has contributed to a production increase. Wow, so they took over.

02:48:42 Speaker_06
That quick?

02:48:43 Speaker_10
What's that?

02:48:44 Speaker_06
Check this out. Meth is cheaper than beer there. Whoa. There's a lot of drugs going on there. Whoa.

02:48:52 Speaker_10
$0.25 each? That's all? Imagine for a quarter, you could do meth? The golden triangle. Imagine doing that quarter meth. For a quarter. What kind of judgment do you have? You pop that $0.25 meth and fucking chug it down with a Budweiser.

02:49:08 Speaker_10
What are you doing, man?

02:49:09 Speaker_06
What kind of life are you living? This guy said he took 10 pills his first time. Oh, boy. Ten pills? How did it work out? I took ten pills and I was totally lost. Didn't recognize my family. Whoa. Didn't recognize my children. Son.

02:49:19 Speaker_10
Couldn't sleep at all. I didn't drink. I didn't eat. I felt powerful.

02:49:27 Speaker_09
The last one's so perfect. I felt powerful. I felt powerful.

02:49:33 Speaker_10
Yeah, look. I don't think that should be legal, but ... Well, here. I don't think you should do it, but I think it should be legal. Correct. I think if it's not legal, the cartel sells it.

02:49:42 Speaker_10
You just have to figure out what to do with the money that you're going to make from it. Because that's devil money. You're selling meth money. That's devil money. You're ruining people's lives.

02:49:50 Speaker_10
There's going to be a bunch of slippery people that are kind of hanging on but doing their best, and you're going to meth them down the road to oblivion. That's true. That's true. That's true. But that's not going to happen to me.

02:50:01 Speaker_10
I'm not going to get methed out. I'm not going to try it. I haven't even tried Adderall. I'm scared of it. So some people are going to figure it out, just like most things in life.

02:50:12 Speaker_10
Just like drinking, just like driving, just like doing jujitsu, just like riding a BMX bike. Some people are going to get hurt.

02:50:19 Speaker_10
So we have to decide what's more valuable to you, nerfing the whole fucking world, or people figuring out what's best for everybody. And the only way to do that is to give people freedom. That's it. It's the only way that works.

02:50:32 Speaker_10
We figure out what works, what doesn't work by successes and failures, and we all adjust along the way. But you've got to give people freedom. Freedom and information. Those are two very important things.

02:50:43 Speaker_10
When you're suppressing either one of them, you can't be the good guy.

02:50:47 Speaker_03
No, no, no. You're not the good bot. You're not the good guy. Freedom has to be sacred across the board, which freedom comes with accountability, which means responsibility.

02:50:58 Speaker_03
And that's the problem is that when freedom, I think when you can distill it down and you can create control, then you can create profit.

02:51:05 Speaker_03
So power, control and profit, those things like they directly have this confluence where people in power obviously manipulate that and they'll restrict our freedom.

02:51:17 Speaker_09
Yes, especially if they can make more money. Have more control, have more power.

02:51:24 Speaker_03
And if COVID taught us anything, it taught us that we can't forfeit freedom to low IQ, power hungry bureaucrats that want to affect our life because they're stupid. So why would we ever give away our freedom to a bunch of stupid bureaucrats? Exactly.

02:51:43 Speaker_03
That to me is the fundamental difference between the entire election process. It's like, how do I maintain or increase my individual accountability, which comes with freedom, right? And how, if we want to capitulate that, that's the other side.

02:51:59 Speaker_03
I think that's a referendum on freedom. I don't want to oversimplify it, but that's kind of where I think it is. It's where it is.

02:52:07 Speaker_10
You're not oversimplifying it. If you don't have that, you don't have any of these things.

02:52:10 Speaker_04
No.

02:52:11 Speaker_10
You don't have any growth. You don't. You're going to have people that are in power that stifle discourse. They're going to stifle debate. They're going to stifle it because they only want their side to be heard.

02:52:20 Speaker_10
It's that lady at the table telling me that Sam Harris and Douglas Murray was hate speech. It's those people.

02:52:24 Speaker_10
You'd have those people dictating what you can and can't talk about based on their own morals And you don't even know how they think about things. You don't even know them. They don't do podcasts You know, they're not hanging out with you at the bar.

02:52:37 Speaker_10
You're not going to dinner with them You don't fucking know them. So you don't know if they're making good judgment calls

02:52:41 Speaker_10
you don't know if their assessment of something is something you agree with or if it's even rational you don't know you just these weird strikes you get on your account and you get like this fear-based letter that comes to you if you do this again you're fucked you're like oh no now what do i do well i better self-censor and go along with the machine and stop misgendering people and stop doing this and stop doing that and stop saying this and

02:53:07 Speaker_10
And then you're fucked. And then you're fucked. And then you might as well be living in any other country that's controlled by a dictator. It's just a dictator by a different name. That's all it is. It's fascism, but it's not right-wing fascism.

02:53:19 Speaker_10
It's left-wing fascism. It's adherence to the state. They want you to go along with the mandate. The way they talk about things is the way you have to talk about things.

02:53:26 Speaker_10
And to think, if anything, this election was a giant fuck you to all that, where everyone was like, fuck, you guys are fucking crazy. We see where this is going. You're going right off a cliff and you're running.

02:53:41 Speaker_10
And if anything that showed you about that, the Harris budget, which has spent a billion dollars, 580 million of it or something like that was for staff? Yeah. 580 million.

02:53:55 Speaker_10
And there's all this money that went to all these outreach groups and all these different and celebrities and like what the fuck is this? And then there are 20 million dollars in debt at the end of it and you want to manage the economy?

02:54:09 Speaker_10
This sounds crazy. What did you do? What happened here?

02:54:15 Speaker_09
Who went crazy with the checkbook? Who went hog wild?

02:54:18 Speaker_08
That's what it is.

02:54:20 Speaker_03
Who went hog wild? Nobody in the administration has ever been business, right?

02:54:27 Speaker_10
Nobody find out what the numbers were to staff because I want to be accurate about that, but I think I am I think it was 580 million and I was watching this on Fox News and they don't lie.

02:54:38 Speaker_10
No, they don't They never lie Didn't they get a giant lawsuit right the Dominion? But yeah, that was a big one. They got hit Alright, let's let's take a little break Yeah, they said it on Fox News Jamie so it has to be true it has to be true

02:54:59 Speaker_10
It's way better.

02:54:59 Speaker_04
Oh, fuck.

02:55:00 Speaker_06
No, better than Fox News. Patrick bet David. I know, I know. I'm telling you, I see the tweets that say that, but Fox News' website says the campaign spent $56 million on payroll and payroll taxes.

02:55:12 Speaker_10
So what's that other money? But wasn't there all the money that they had spent on activism?

02:55:18 Speaker_06
Yes, yes, yes.

02:55:19 Speaker_10
Didn't they count that in staff?

02:55:21 Speaker_06
No, I don't know. This all comes from Twitter. I don't know where they get the number from.

02:55:26 Speaker_10
Well, if it comes from Twitter, Jamie, it's real. I'm just telling stop being a fucking party pooper. There's people asking for the scroll up and let me see what this says. It's not But no, I'm sorry. I'll scroll down a little.

02:55:37 Speaker_10
I just want to see what it all it says So it says Kamala raised 1.00 3 billion. She spent 1.37 billion. She spent 582.53 million on staff

02:55:53 Speaker_06
That's that doesn't add up because I saw she spent six hundred and eighty million on ads So those two numbers, you know, there's no money left over for everything else, right? So one of the one of the two isn't correct one of them.

02:56:03 Speaker_10
How much is she spent on ads 680 million.

02:56:06 Speaker_09
Oh my god. That's like the shit is on my podcast for free do that.

02:56:10 Speaker_03
That is like the the The secret it's not even a secret when it's campaign time And you have all these ads these ad guys that are out there. Yeah, they're buying up all the ads and it's a wash in money it's

02:56:28 Speaker_03
hundreds of millions of dollars, and they're just pipelining campaign donations into ads, and it's like loading up their money guns and just shooting it into space. That's what they're doing.

02:56:45 Speaker_10
That is what it's like, right? I know. And they've been telling people that this is effective, and so they have this business going.

02:56:53 Speaker_03
It's just complete absurdity. Don't get me wrong.

02:56:59 Speaker_03
I actually Politics is so fun for me because I think it's it's really interesting and it's like it's I can't get into football or anything else because I like the data associated with things and I if I got into football I'd be like one of those fantasy football dorks, and I can't get into it and So politics is one of the things where I'm like I follow it.

02:57:19 Speaker_03
I love it. It's interesting mm-hmm just trying to understand the strategy behind it and

02:57:25 Speaker_10
I've changed my opinion of it a little bit since the election. I don't think the control, the grip of the control of the country is as strong as I thought it was. I thought this concept, so everyone has a concept of they.

02:57:42 Speaker_10
They don't want you to know things. They're controlling things. I have a feeling that in times of crisis, like what we find ourselves currently in, it's like when the lights come on and roaches scatter. That's what I have a feeling.

02:57:54 Speaker_10
I have a feeling there's no way that they can trust each other. That they all know that a certain percentage of people are going down for corruption There's a certain percentage of people that did some dirty shit. Yeah, there's a certain.

02:58:06 Speaker_10
There's some connections with Organizations and corporations and some emails save your emails. It's one of the things that Rockets and pack your bag

02:58:19 Speaker_10
so epic yeah that's epic preserve your records because we know you're all a bunch of liars yes we we've caught you already on emails lying about stuff so this is you've all perjured yourselves like Fauci perjured himself yes there's no if or until there's just that just a definition of

02:58:34 Speaker_10
Gain-of-function like shut the fuck up. You don't change the definition and make it ultra super nuanced so that it fits in your little Excuse box of why you didn't fund gain-of-function research the fuck you didn't that's what you did.

02:58:47 Speaker_10
That's what it is And when Rand Paul was confronting him with it, that was like one of the craziest moments you sir Do not know what you are talking about.

02:58:55 Speaker_09
It's like an evil villain.

02:58:56 Speaker_10
Yeah, yeah evil villain that just lied to everybody and got away with it and No repercussions.

02:59:05 Speaker_03
Well, I think that's I think that's like the story over and over for these guys that are empowered There's no repercussions. Yeah, there's no accountability.

02:59:13 Speaker_03
I Oftentimes think of Dick Cheney as a guy sitting back and in like a high back leather chair in a in a in a big in a big Black tile office.

02:59:24 Speaker_03
It's completely shiny with a white cat on his lap like just petting it That's the way I think about that fucking guy like fuck that guy. I Like how I these guys got to keep flashing back to this bit it forever fucking changed me right where am I?

02:59:44 Speaker_03
These guys fucked up so many people's lives like countless countless lives and the fact that they still think they have public trust with zero accountability man

03:00:01 Speaker_10
How wild was it when Dick Cheney was endorsing Obama, or excuse me, was endorsing Kamala? Of course he was.

03:00:06 Speaker_09
And everybody was like, yeah, look at that, right-wing people.

03:00:10 Speaker_03
Yeah. You might as well have painted, if you would have been a NASCAR driver, he would have had a Lockheed Martin fucking jersey on right then, at that point. Or Satan. Yeah, yeah, Satan and Lockheed Martin working together.

03:00:23 Speaker_09
Sponsored by Satan.

03:00:26 Speaker_03
It's got patches on his uniform, like that's Chappelle. You remember that fucking Chappelle skit where it's like politicians were NASCAR drivers?

03:00:35 Speaker_10
Yeah. How do you like the vest? Satan would be amazing. It's just all caps on the back. Satan. The Liberals would still find a way. It's like Satanism in the classical sense. It was just like a rejection of the norm.

03:00:50 Speaker_03
I mean, think about it. He's a fallen angel. Think about how bad that is. We have to think about it.

03:00:57 Speaker_10
Yeah, Dick Cheney's basically a fallen angel.

03:00:59 Speaker_03
Have you seen those Babylon B skits where it's like Satan talking to the Democrats about, like, dude, you guys fuck. You guys jumped the shark on this. What are you doing?

03:01:10 Speaker_10
It's so good. Did you see the Babylon Bees one recently where they're talking about criticizing Trump's new appointments in comparison to Biden's appointments? Have you seen it? No. It's just images.

03:01:22 Speaker_03
I can fucking see it. See if you can find it, Jamie, on their Instagram.

03:01:25 Speaker_10
It's that one, dude. It's the bald dude with the dress. It's the other dude who's the first female admiral. It's the first female admiral. Imagine if you're a woman and you're trying to become an admiral. This motherfucker just jumps the line.

03:01:37 Speaker_03
He's like, okay, yeah, cool. Have you seen it? You find it? That whole thing with the ... It's like the Avengers united or whatever. Here it is.

03:01:47 Speaker_10
Check this. Biden administration declares Trump cabinet picks unqualified.

03:01:52 Speaker_03
God yeah, like if you just look at that thing and then you look at like and when I say things, right?

03:01:59 Speaker_03
It's just like you look at this thing and then you do a direct comparison Like okay, you know who scares the fuck out of me who that new borders are. Oh, dude.

03:02:06 Speaker_09
He's a bad motherfucker. He scares me He scares me.

03:02:11 Speaker_10
I imagine myself with a backpack sneak it across the Rio Grande that fucking guys there. No, yeah He was like about families. Is there any way to not separate families?

03:02:21 Speaker_09
Yes

03:02:22 Speaker_03
He'd deport them together. You know what it reminded me of? You remember that?

03:02:27 Speaker_10
It's just like he said, I was like, whoa, this is getting dark. Yeah. See, I'm like a bleeding heart. Like I want people from another country that are poor to make their way here and make a better life. I want that. I just want to be scanned.

03:02:41 Speaker_10
I don't know who the fuck is coming over. I want to make sure they're not cartel members. I want to make sure they're not terrorists. But I'm all for people that want a better life, because I would do it.

03:02:50 Speaker_10
I'd be a complete, total hypocrite if I said I lived in Guatemala in some village and there's no power, and I found out that I could walk to America, and if I did it, it'd take three days, and then I could get a job in the fields, and then I'd make way more money, I could send money home, and everybody could have clean water.

03:03:04 Speaker_10
I'd fucking do it, you would do it, we'd all do it. We'd all do it. So part of me is like, man, I don't want to send anybody back, but the other part of me is like, What about terrorists? What about checking for cartel members?

03:03:18 Speaker_10
What about the fentanyl that's coming through? You can't have an open border.

03:03:21 Speaker_03
I believe in a meritocracy. It's like, may the best idea prevail, may the hardest workers prevail. The problem is, is when we export all of our manufacturing to China, when we have a South American, we have a border crisis.

03:03:36 Speaker_03
And obviously I'm a coffee guy, so I think about coffee all the time, and I think about Nicaragua, El Salvador, like all of the South American, Central American countries that grow coffee.

03:03:45 Speaker_03
And I talk to the farmers, and all we have to pay them is five or 10 cents more a pound, depending on the coffee. And most of the time, when I'm talking about coffees, I'm like, yeah, no problem, 10 cents more, who cares?

03:04:01 Speaker_03
What that allows them to do is build schools, pay a livable wage, all of the things that they need to do to be successful in Guatemala, Nicaragua, wherever they're going, wherever we're talking about.

03:04:18 Speaker_03
So I think about this, like, okay, so we're exporting these manufacturing jobs to China. And if we're just concentrating on economic policies in this hemisphere, where,

03:04:29 Speaker_03
from a national security perspective, if we're exporting jobs to South America, we're creating economic opportunity and mobility in South America and Central America, we're creating jobs, economic stability, generational wealth, and we're also solving one of the issues that we're having, which is a border crisis.

03:04:51 Speaker_03
It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to say, hey, we want to export. And I know this started with the Nixon administration.

03:04:59 Speaker_03
And you have essentially slave labor, which I'm 110% against, which I don't think in any way, shape, or form we should support economically.

03:05:10 Speaker_03
So if we're to export and look at this from a manufacturing and industry perspective from this hemisphere, how do we align ourselves around strategic stability. How do we protect against our border crisis? How do we still import?

03:05:26 Speaker_03
Because I mean, I know Americans love their cheap goods, like they love their shit. You know what I mean? They still want to have this decreased labor cost. I think investing in South and Central America is just not a bad thing.

03:05:42 Speaker_03
If we're not going to invest in America because of the cost, then we have to invest in this hemisphere.

03:05:47 Speaker_10
Well, it makes sense that if you want to make the world a better place and you want less people trying to sneak into our country, one of the best ways is to make their country better. Right. But we've got to do it ethically.

03:05:57 Speaker_10
The crazy thing, and we've beaten this horse a thousand times, is that everybody has a phone and everybody's phone is made by slaves. Right.

03:06:05 Speaker_10
And if it's not made by slaves, the cobalt that's in it, there's a real high chance that it came from someone with a fucking stick poking it into the ground and digging it out for you. Right. And that's everybody.

03:06:17 Speaker_10
We have to take a hard look at all this stuff.

03:06:19 Speaker_10
We should be making our phones in America We should make me be making our phones in America with American minerals that their source for people to get paid a fair labor rate wage They get health benefits every there's OSHA people check on things make sure that regulations are in place make sure that people get like make sure that they're making enough money to make a living to live a livable wage and

03:06:42 Speaker_10
You have to do that in America if you want to do it legally. The only reason to do it somewhere else is so that you can do something legal. because it's legal there, but it's not legal where you live.

03:06:51 Speaker_10
It shouldn't be legal to have people working in another country for you for fucking 15 cents an hour. It's just, it's too crazy. It's too crazy that you just, you cross this dirt path and now you're allowed to be a piece of shit.

03:07:03 Speaker_10
Like it seems crazy, but if you're doing it the right way and you're paying people well and you're allowing people to like thrive in a place where there was nothing before. Yeah. You can give people a pathway to do a lot of different things.

03:07:15 Speaker_10
Economic success opens up a lot of fucking doors, especially with education, especially with safety, with schools, with better communities, people have money, there's not so much tension. Yeah, it's good. It's good to have a thriving industry.

03:07:29 Speaker_10
It's good to have a thriving economy. It's good for everybody. It's just not good for everybody, everybody. There's always going to be people that suffer in every kind of economy, in every kind of situation in the world.

03:07:40 Speaker_10
There's going to be people that suffer. And like we were talking about on the way here, some of it's just luck. There's a lot of luck. There's a lot of luck. Luck is a real thing. Good and bad.

03:07:55 Speaker_10
That's one of the most important things about having some success in this life. You know, it's having the humility to understand that you just got lucky as fuck. You're lucky as fuck if you're alive. Especially you, right?

03:08:05 Speaker_03
You're lucky as fuck you're alive. You know how lucky I am? It's like tenfold order. I got all my fingers and toes. It's so incredible. Incredible business. Good friend of mine. God, man.

03:08:20 Speaker_03
Like it's so incredible when you think about like the birthplace lottery of hitting the jackpot like holy shit I think in this time too.

03:08:28 Speaker_10
Yeah, I think we're so lucky in this time I think I'm particularly lucky because I grew up before the internet was at all like how old do you 47? So I'm 10 years older than you. So when I was

03:08:40 Speaker_10
Like third no, I guess I was 27 when the internet became like a normal thing to have in your house and you had a dial-up And you turn on America got mail or you got mail.

03:08:52 Speaker_10
Yeah, you've got mail on AOL so from that point on the fucking world changed so wildly and so quickly that we weren't even really noticing it while I was changing and And now here we are.

03:09:06 Speaker_10
Here we are in 2024, where it seems like the most chaotic, the most weird. Trump just won again. Somehow or another, I helped him. All this fucking crazy. This is the wildest timeline ever.

03:09:21 Speaker_03
This is the most we're talking about. This is the most optimistic I've been in our country. This is the most optimistic I've been in my adult life.

03:09:31 Speaker_10
Yeah, the moment that he won like that in a landslide, I was like, maybe they don't have such a grasp. And maybe this will open up the door to making things more rational and balanced.

03:09:43 Speaker_10
And we could stop a lot of this fucking awful corruption that's just intertwined, like the mycelium that's under the soil. The corruption just intertwined, and a lot of it's legal corruption.

03:09:54 Speaker_09
Dude, it's insane. When you think about

03:09:58 Speaker_03
Yeah, obviously, I'm super interested in the military-industrial complex. But when you think about, you know, we had, we'll say, 50, 60 military-industrial contractors at the start of 9-11, and then now we're down to five.

03:10:15 Speaker_03
And we think of $860 billion of annual debt associated with the defense budget, which has gone up since our height in the world on terror or the war on terror.

03:10:29 Speaker_03
And we have five big companies that are basically taking 50% of that 860 and then 50% of that is profit. And how is it happening?

03:10:46 Speaker_03
When you think of this triangular effect between the military-industrial complex and, okay, you have the revolving door between the Pentagon, so every star that comes out of the Pentagon goes back in the military-industrial complex with X amount of years of disassociation, blah, blah, blah, it's okay.

03:11:03 Speaker_03
Then you go back in the military-industrial complex, so you go into like Lockheed, Raytheon, one of the top five.

03:11:10 Speaker_03
Then you have congressmen and senators that are making decisions specifically related to the budget and the military, the defense budget. They're lobbying to increase defense spending, but then they also have factories

03:11:27 Speaker_03
that are related to like the F-35 or some big military contract where they're making 40, 30, 40, 50 percent in profit. So they're the guys that are lobbying to increase the defense budget.

03:11:41 Speaker_03
Their campaigns are being paid for by the military industrial complex. They're directly increasing the military budget. It's a self-licking ice cream cone. It's insane. It's completely insane.

03:11:58 Speaker_03
The fact that we don't have any strict firewalls and separation from an ethics and I'm not against people creating jobs in their state. That's not what I'm saying.

03:12:11 Speaker_03
I'm saying the fact that there are not strict firewalls between the fact that you're going to directly profit and or your campaigns are paid for by the people that you will lobby to go in and increase the taxpayers liability.

03:12:29 Speaker_03
I was thinking about this the other day. I was like if the taxpayer had an itemized Look at where their taxes go when they just came out annually or once a month or whatever it is And they looked at what they were paying for.

03:12:44 Speaker_03
I'm pretty sure They might have a more vested interest into how much they were paying what they're paying for and saying, you know Maybe we shouldn't be asleep at the wheel. Maybe we should probably pay a little bit more pay more attention to this and

03:12:57 Speaker_10
Isn't that amazing that you don't get an itemized list, but you're required to give an extraordinary percentage of your money to the government? What is the tax bracket of someone who makes a million dollars a year? What is that?

03:13:09 Speaker_03
Forty percent. Forty percent? Forty-three percent, probably.

03:13:12 Speaker_10
Okay, let's imagine you're paying 40% in income taxes. Then if you live in California, you pay another 14.4, I think it is, something like that. And then I think it's another 1% if you live in the city of Los Angeles.

03:13:27 Speaker_10
So now you're down to 30, what, 34%? What do you get there? Somewhere in the high 30s. So then you have sales tax on everything you buy. You have property tax. You have insurance. You have whatever your house costs.

03:13:45 Speaker_10
You don't have a lot of money left over, and the government doesn't even have to tell you what they're spending it on. You probably get less than they do, if you really think about it.

03:13:56 Speaker_10
If they get 40% ... Let's just say you don't have tax shelters and all that good stuff. But if you pay 40% in income taxes, and then after all the shit, like after all property tax, and state tax, and this tax, and sales tax, how much did you get?

03:14:13 Speaker_10
What did you get? How much money did you actually get? I bet the government got more than you got, bitch.

03:14:20 Speaker_03
70% of your time at work is working for the Fed.

03:14:25 Speaker_10
That is so bananas that you don't even get an itemized list of what they spend it on.

03:14:29 Speaker_03
I have to file my audited financials, right? I think about this all the time. I have to. It's a requirement. I have to pass them. The Pentagon hasn't passed an audit in decades. They have like 60%, we'll just say 50% of the Pentagon's expenses.

03:14:49 Speaker_03
They're like, I don't know. I don't know where it went. Sorry. The shit out of luck, taxpayer. So how is it, it's this rules for thee, not for me. That's the rule. Don't they always miss their audits?

03:15:01 Speaker_10
Yes. How many times do they miss their audits? The Pentagon. Yeah, the Pentagon. How many times?

03:15:11 Speaker_03
I think it's like, it's crazy numbers too, like whoopsies. Oops. I just forgot about that $300 billion.

03:15:19 Speaker_06
Article 1.21 says they've never passed an audit.

03:15:22 Speaker_03
Yeah, there we go. There we go. There we go. So it's rules for thee, not for me. They've never passed an audit. They've never? Yeah. Come on, never? Never. Never.

03:15:36 Speaker_10
Pentagon's accounting records are so convoluted that billions of dollars cannot be accounted for charges a new government report. Oh my god Oh my God. That is so crazy.

03:15:47 Speaker_09
Never? Yeah. And you'll go to jail if you don't pay these.

03:15:52 Speaker_03
You'll go to jail if you're not paying your taxes.

03:15:55 Speaker_10
You haven't survived an audit. That is so funny. That's so funny. Despite having trillions of dollars in assets and receiving hundreds of billions of federal dollars annually, the department has never detailed its assets and liabilities in a given year.

03:16:09 Speaker_10
For the past three financial years, the Defense Department's audit has resulted in a disclaimer of opinion, meaning the auditor didn't get enough accounting records to form an assessment. Like, sorry, we don't have any paperwork.

03:16:23 Speaker_09
Where'd the money go? I forgot. Gotta go. I'm just a military guy. We are just trying to keep America safe. Yeah. Like that's what it is, man.

03:16:34 Speaker_10
What if all of it's going to UFOs? Huh? What if all of it's going to UFOs? What if all of it's going to some propulsion research thing that they're doing, they've got UFOs, they're just not telling us? What are they spending it on?

03:16:46 Speaker_10
How much of it is getting greased into the side pockets of people?

03:16:50 Speaker_03
But even then, from a transparency perspective, does it not shake out for us?

03:16:54 Speaker_03
Because if we're saying, hey, we're going to spend, I don't know, let's just call it $100 billion on like black fund experimental technology to maintain our strategic hegemony.

03:17:11 Speaker_03
Do you think that we would all be like, no, I mean it's better than not passing a fucking audit where you're like, I don't know where it goes, man.

03:17:18 Speaker_10
I'd rather you tell me that you can't tell me then tell me you don't know. Tell me you can't tell me. Tell me you can't tell me.

03:17:24 Speaker_10
Despite costing more than $1.7 trillion in its estimated life cycle, attempts to audit the program have run into major hurdles. The F-35. So this is just the F-35? The F-35 could hide some propulsion money. It could.

03:17:38 Speaker_06
$1.7 trillion. Just for one program.

03:17:41 Speaker_10
I'm sure. Look, if Area 51 exists, and now we know it does for sure, it was a real base.

03:17:47 Speaker_10
They said it wasn't a base forever, and then during the Obama administration, they had to expand the boundaries because surveillance equipment and binoculars and telescopes are getting better and more sophisticated, and they were filming things that were flying around they shouldn't have been filming.

03:18:01 Speaker_10
So they expanded the boundaries. They had to say that Area 51 existed. Right, right. What was that? Where'd you get the money? What'd you do? What are you doing down there? Why do people say you have UFOs? What the fuck are you doing?

03:18:13 Speaker_10
Why do you have a base in the middle of fucking nowhere that's built into the side of a mountain? Like, why are you guys acting like this is an Avengers movie? What are you doing out here? Once again, it goes back to just transparency. Yeah.

03:18:25 Speaker_10
Or you can't tell me. Because you think I'm a fucking baby. Like the same reason why you think I can't have mushrooms.

03:18:30 Speaker_03
The same reason why we can't have full disclosure of the JFK assassination, right? There's 4,000 documents. Have we talked about the JFK assassination on this thing yet? I think we have. Have we gone down the rabbit hole?

03:18:42 Speaker_03
I went down the rabbit hole with multiple people, including Oliver Stone. Have you heard my theory?

03:18:45 Speaker_10
No. Maybe not. I don't know.

03:18:47 Speaker_03
What's your theory? My theory is it all goes back to the Bay of Pigs. It's all Bay of Pigs. It's all Cuba. It's all Bay of Pigs.

03:18:56 Speaker_03
And so I'm looking at it from a paramilitary CIA perspective and thinking about it from Alan Dulles, which obviously like he's in charge of the Warren Commission after Kennedy fired him. So I'm giving everybody a kind of a Summary explanation.

03:19:12 Speaker_03
Yeah Dulles Airport, which is the Dulles brothers a single most too powerful fucking people in Washington even during the Truman administration but either way, so What happened, I think, was, so Operation Zapata, which is also George H.W.

03:19:28 Speaker_03
Bush's first oil company that he supposedly left fucking Connecticut and went out after his Yale, you know, his Yale tenure after World War II, was like, I'm gonna be an oil guy and start fucking Zapata Oil. Yeah, of course, right?

03:19:42 Speaker_03
Even though his dad's best friend with Alan Dahl is, sure, anyway. So. So. Operation Zapata, which it turns into the Bay of Pigs and Kennedy gets read in on this.

03:19:59 Speaker_03
He says yes, let's go and then when it comes down to the day like I mean you've built 1,400 let's say, you know, 1,200 1,300 man force that's that's a CIA former Cuban exile army

03:20:18 Speaker_03
You've built it, and Alan Dulles has been the main architect behind this. You've got all these guys, so let's even go back. These are all OSS WWII guys.

03:20:33 Speaker_03
Let's create a clear delineation between what they're doing and what they think the president is doing. The president's like, yeah, yeah, he's elected, fuck that guy. We're the agency. That's the way Alan Dulles actually ran things.

03:20:48 Speaker_03
Half the time, he wouldn't even brief the president on what he was doing. So he puts together this thing, clears it through Eisenhower. Eisenhower says, yes, let's go take those fucking Cuban commies out. They put together a 1,100 man force.

03:21:07 Speaker_03
They've been training on this. They've got secret bases in Guatemala. They've got all these paramilitary CIA guys. They're ready to take the beach.

03:21:16 Speaker_03
They're expecting air support because without air support that changes the entire tactical equation Like if you don't have air support, there's a lot of things you just don't fucking do period so the morning of Kennedy denies air support for the Bay of Pigs, so the morning of

03:21:37 Speaker_03
So these dudes are taking the beach. These are hardcore, like CIA-trained paramilitary guys, Cuban exiles, and World War II hardcore regime change combat veteran. Like, these are the hardest motherfuckers on the planet that we have.

03:21:57 Speaker_03
He pulls air support. He left 1,100 guys on the beach to die, basically. These guys all get rolled up, so they lost about 60 guys. 2406 is the name of the brigade. 60 guys died. A thousand plus got put in Cuban prisons. Now you got an axe grind.

03:22:24 Speaker_03
You just pissed off the entire CIA paramilitary organization. I don't know if I'm the president, I don't know how I don't end up with a moonroof, to be honest with you.

03:22:34 Speaker_03
I just pissed off the guys that are actually in charge of assassination, paramilitary, all of the dirty deeds around the planet. I fire Alan Dulles for this catastrophe of the Bay of Pigs. I've got a thousand plus guys that are in prison in Cuba.

03:22:54 Speaker_03
I've got the entire former OSS hardcore anti-communist, anti-Castro organization of the CIA pissed off.

03:23:06 Speaker_03
If you don't think they're not gonna tee a guy up like some pro, you know, commie, Oswald guy in a, you know, in a multi-story building in Dallas, if you don't think you're gonna end up with a hole in your head, you're crazy, to be honest with you.

03:23:24 Speaker_03
That's the way I'm looking at this. So they end up getting these guys out, but man, he pissed off a lot of super capable guy, means opportunity intent.

03:23:34 Speaker_03
Mmm means opportunity intent, which is now you left me and my buddies on a beach in Cuba Bro You are not gonna get out of here unscathed. I'm just yeah, that's my theory.

03:23:48 Speaker_10
I think that along with all the other stuff means there was probably Bunch of people that did not want him around. Oh, yeah.

03:23:59 Speaker_10
He wanted to get rid of the CIA Yeah, he he had his eyes on the Federal Reserve There was a lot of crazy talk about secret societies and you know, you've seen that speech about secret society Yeah, yeah, and there was he's a real threat and as soon as you can get those killers to want him out, too Well now you got a problem solved

03:24:19 Speaker_03
Well, you had a bunch of guys that thought he was soft on cute. He was soft on Russia They had a bunch of dirt on him because he was he was banging a bunch of chicks all of which Okay, well, you know, maybe it's true. Maybe it's false.

03:24:33 Speaker_03
I don't fucking know but I mean, I think it's fairly validated at this point I think it's pretty true and you've got a you have a Collection of people that are are thinking this is a zero-sum game. This is a Cold War

03:24:49 Speaker_03
If you're weak on Russia and you think that the guy's gonna bend his, you know, he's gonna bend a knee to the bear, you've got a lot of, you've got this confluence of interests where... It's inevitable.

03:25:09 Speaker_10
It's also not universally loved.

03:25:11 Speaker_10
We think of him as being universally loved because he's dead Yeah, but when he was alive, like there's a lot of people that were not fans of his in the red states Probably particularly Dallas Dallas driving through Dallas.

03:25:24 Speaker_10
He had LBJ that's from What's what's amazing about it really is how sloppy the whole floppy is shit the whole thing from autopsy to

03:25:36 Speaker_10
The fucking magic bullet laying on the gurney to having to come up with a magic bullet theory because the ricochet in the underpass like the whole thing is so clunky It's like such a shitty explanation.

03:25:47 Speaker_10
You couldn't kill one extra guy and say there was another guy over here We killed him too. Yeah, you guys are this is such a shit job you guys do you have one other idiot?

03:25:56 Speaker_10
One other idiot give a bad rifle and just fucking shoot him, but they don't have any they don't have

03:26:02 Speaker_03
The context of what we have, which is social media... Right, of course. When did the Zapruder film... It was like 12 years later. Yeah.

03:26:11 Speaker_09
And it was on the Geraldo Rivera Show.

03:26:13 Speaker_10
Which is completely insane. Dick Gregory, who is a stand-up comedian, brought it on the Geraldo Rivera Show. Are you serious?

03:26:21 Speaker_09
I didn't know that.

03:26:22 Speaker_10
Dick Gregory, who is a stand-up, he's a lot more than that too, he's an activist, but like a real one.

03:26:28 Speaker_10
Not in any way some sort of a social value grifter, which I think a lot of people gravitate towards activism because it gives them a chance to be really shitty because they're right.

03:26:38 Speaker_10
He was a brilliant guy, but it was also a guy who was a truth seeker back when it was really hard to get to the truth.

03:26:45 Speaker_10
This guy had to acquire a copy of the Sapruto film when, in time, life got a hold of it apparently right after the assassination, and they just kept it. They just kept it. They just kept it. And when you watch it, you realize why they kept it.

03:26:59 Speaker_10
Because you see his head go back and to the left. And it looks like he does get shot in the neck from the front. He holds his fucking neck like this. He doesn't hold it backwards. He holds his neck like this. That's impact. That's where it hit him.

03:27:11 Speaker_10
And then his fucking head goes back and to the left. And we're supposed to think that this fucking guy did all this from the school depository. Maybe he did take a shot or two from the school book depository. I don't think he was innocent.

03:27:22 Speaker_10
I'm not of the camp like it's a binary thing. Either Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy and the CIA killed him or Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. That's a stupid way to think. I think for sure they used him. They probably gave him a rifle.

03:27:35 Speaker_10
He might have been in that window. He might have just been in the building. He might have been in the area. Who knows? I think he probably did shoot that cop. Like when they were chasing after him, it seems like he did kill that cop.

03:27:44 Speaker_10
I think he was an asset. But I also think there was a bunch of people shooting at the president. And if you look at that area, you've been to Dealey, you've been there.

03:27:51 Speaker_08
Yeah.

03:27:51 Speaker_10
Yeah. It's a weird, it's a weird. It feels weird. Yeah. Oh shit. This is where it's a lot smaller than I thought it was. It's tiny. It's really little. Yeah. Like when people say he couldn't have made those shots, like shut the fuck up right there, right up.

03:28:05 Speaker_10
Like literally you look up in the buildings, right? He had a scope. At least he had a scope. That's what's crazy about the kid that tried to kill the president, but tried to kill Trump. He didn't even, he had iron sights.

03:28:15 Speaker_10
Which is insane, but it's not if you just go in center mass, but this dude's doing for a headshot 140 yards and He's probably never shot anybody before he's a 20 year old kid that they just somehow or another Operation MK ultra mine fucked him into shooting at him or he's on some crazy medication or or China or The fuck happened but

03:28:39 Speaker_03
You know and then some mobster Some like happenstance mobster is so passionate about kennedy.

03:28:47 Speaker_09
He's like i'm gonna kill People are letting them in with the pistol bang.

03:28:52 Speaker_08
It's so dumb dude. It's it's

03:28:54 Speaker_09
Then you know what happens to him, right?

03:28:56 Speaker_10
Yeah, he dies of cancer, like hardcore. Before that, before that. No, huh? Jolly West visits him in jail and he goes crazy. Jolly West, who's the head of MKUltra. Oh, yeah, yeah.

03:29:06 Speaker_10
Jolly West was the guy who got Charles Manson the acid, allegedly, from the book Chaos. He goes into it.

03:29:11 Speaker_10
Jolly West went to visit Lee Harvey Oswald and excuse me Jack Ruby Jack Ruby's on the ground underneath his bunk crying in the fetal position that they're they're murdering the Jews with fire and he's Tripping balls this guy dosed him up with acid Blew his fucking brains out, and then they probably injected him with cancer hundred percent.

03:29:30 Speaker_10
See you later fuckface.

03:29:32 Speaker_03
I think you have this Outside so what if we want to go all the way back and you want to just know my like yeah two cents on this Yeah, okay, so Dulles knows that eventually the president is gonna like they're gonna snuff him out.

03:29:47 Speaker_03
They're gonna fire him Dulles decides that he's gonna have this whole separate CIA That's CIA guys, but they're all really very trusted in in internal external guys and I think those guys are essentially his guys.

03:30:13 Speaker_03
And they get hung out to dry in the Bay of Pigs. They're not attributable to the CIA other than loose affiliated documents. I think Dulles gets fired and they're like, OK, let's go.

03:30:31 Speaker_03
Let's like Alan Dulles didn't want to be answering to the president because he didn't answer to the people. He was answering to a bigger call in his mind.

03:30:40 Speaker_03
He's answering to this is an eminent threat the big Communist bear is going to come and eat our lunch So he's answering to the greater good Which is a reason for like the backdrop of the cold war is a reason for a lot of this nefarious activity like angleton like all these directors

03:31:01 Speaker_03
Everybody looks at these guys as like really nefarious characters, but you have to paint everything in the backdrop of the Cold War. Like, we're doing all this stuff to save America, right?

03:31:13 Speaker_10
And I'm not validating them, I'm just telling them they have- We have to understand that perspective.

03:31:17 Speaker_03
Yes.

03:31:18 Speaker_10
Because that was a big thing even when I was in high school.

03:31:20 Speaker_03
This is the Cold War, they're going to fucking kill us all. They're gonna nuke us. So we will do, it's very Machiavellian, the means justify the ends. Anything and everything to save the nation at any point in time.

03:31:33 Speaker_03
So you have guys that are baptized in extreme patriotism and their belief is that they are doing things for the best of the nation. And that if they have an elected official, they can't be trusted. They can't be trusted in there.

03:31:53 Speaker_03
These are guys that are in you know, I went out to Omaha in in for the 80th and

03:32:02 Speaker_03
These are I it's so interesting for me to think back on this because these are guys are World War two vets that that like They saw everybody die You know, I mean the the the Soviets lost tens of millions of guys in World War two they were defeating Fascism which is you know, they were defeating the Nazi Party, you know the Japanese army and they've seen thousands of men die

03:32:27 Speaker_03
And they're serious guys. They're not light-hearted. They're not full of love. These are guys that are baptized in ultra-violence to the point of which this is a zero-sum game and we have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being nice.

03:32:46 Speaker_03
And nobody will get in our way to being able to maintain the sovereignty of the nation. Once again, i'm not justifying it.

03:32:53 Speaker_03
I can just get into the mind of them because if i'm jumping into nazi occupied france in you know 1940x because a lot of the oss teams went in there and i'm get watching my friends get fucking mowed down by nazi machine guns and i'm killing nazis and i'm moving my way

03:33:15 Speaker_03
to overthrow Hitler, and now I feel like Stalin is the next thing that I have to defeat, but the American public just doesn't understand.

03:33:29 Speaker_03
Like I'm 1945 man I've been quite literally baptized in blood and I'm not gonna let it happen now you think about a high intellect Type a driven ultraviolent guy that may be Semi-coherent based on their their copious consumption of alcohol Yeah, yeah, okay well old you know I

03:33:55 Speaker_03
A lot of these programs start to make sense because these guys are like, they're fucking serious guys and they think that we're gonna die in a nuclear holocaust. And everything, the means justifies it. It's a very Machiavellian.

03:34:09 Speaker_03
I don't necessarily, once again, I'm not trying to say that every evil deed is justified. I'm just saying like, I've seen the beaches in Normandy.

03:34:16 Speaker_03
I understand greater than a lot of people what combat and the direct psychological and emotional effects what it'll do to people.

03:34:24 Speaker_03
And I can kind of see myself going like, hey man, if I'm a 26-year-old guy that just went and fought the Nazis, and I think that the big bad bear is coming after me, man, you're a pretty serious character.

03:34:39 Speaker_10
That feeling of the big bad bear coming after us got lifted with the fall of the Berlin Wall, with the fall of the Soviet Union. All that stuff went away. The fear. When I was a kid, that fear was everywhere.

03:34:52 Speaker_10
You know, I've talked to so many people that are like my age or around my age that remember being a child and being worried about a war with nuclear bombs with Russia. It was constant. It was in the air.

03:35:05 Speaker_10
When Khrushchev banged his shoe on the table and said, we will bury you. I watched that video on YouTube just like a month ago, and it's still scary. The two fucking banging his shoe, and when he said, we will bury you.

03:35:21 Speaker_10
Was that a direct quote or was that propaganda? That one feels fishy. I bet that's one where it's like a little bit more slippery than we will bury you. Because you know what I mean? When you're getting your translations?

03:35:33 Speaker_03
That was a direct response to when we agreed, we have this mutual agreement between the Soviets and Khrushchev wasn't... Khrushchev wasn't actually a Stalinist. He was making very big reforms in the Soviet Union.

03:35:51 Speaker_03
And so he felt betrayed by the U-2 spy missions that were taking place after they shot down the U-2 spy plane in Russia. And because we lied,

03:36:05 Speaker_03
He was like bang bang bang and I'm fairly certain That's what that whole thing was about because I think that was a man of honor And I said these fucking guys are lying to me And I mean Stalin was a shitbag.

03:36:19 Speaker_03
Don't like I'm of course, but Khrushchev was like making significant reforms Within the country. He was an aunt. He was he was broadly condemned by a lot of the old the Stalinists as... Here it is.

03:36:37 Speaker_06
I don't see him banging his shoe in the video. He's banging his hand.

03:36:39 Speaker_03
Oh, he's banging his fist, yeah.

03:36:40 Speaker_09
I thought he banged his shoe.

03:36:42 Speaker_06
The video says that he banged his shoe.

03:36:43 Speaker_01
I don't know what he's saying. Whoa. That's a scary language when they're yelling it. I know.

03:37:01 Speaker_10
Put that under a couple pints of vodka. Someone was saying this, but it's so true. There's nothing scarier than Russian Muslims. Like the fighters? Russian Muslims are the fucking scariest fighters, dude.

03:37:16 Speaker_10
I think if there's like one group that I would categorize, like what's the scariest? It might be Russian Muslims. This is from the CIA's website. We will bury you.

03:37:24 Speaker_10
Threat widely attributed to Khrushchev in Western press was reported to have been made at a send-off reception to Poland's Gmukha in Moscow, November 1956. According to Time Magazine, Khrushchev was overheard to say at the final reception,

03:37:40 Speaker_10
for the Polish leader, if you don't like us, don't accept our invitations and don't invite us to come to see you. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side, we will bury you. So he said that to Poland.

03:37:55 Speaker_10
But that was in a, wasn't that in a police song or a sting song? The Russians love their children too? Wasn't that? Scorpions? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think it was a sting song. Really?

03:38:07 Speaker_06
Sting song called the Russians.

03:38:08 Speaker_10
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a saying, Khrushchev said, he will bury you. So they probably, it was probably some fake news, just like how they said about Trump saying the very fine people on both sides.

03:38:20 Speaker_03
It's always been, it's been fascinating to me because I think about the Russians and how many tens of millions of people they lost in World War II.

03:38:28 Speaker_02
Yeah.

03:38:28 Speaker_03
And I think about, very empathetically how they got fucked. They really did.

03:38:37 Speaker_03
I think, and I'm not saying we did anything bad, I'm just saying what we did was we delayed the invasion of Normandy and we felt like, a lot of people think this, was that we were trying to soften up the Soviet Union because we felt that they were a follow-on threat in World War II, but

03:38:59 Speaker_03
We delayed the invasion intentionally essentially to let a lot of Russians, millions of Russians, essentially die on the Eastern Front.

03:39:12 Speaker_03
When when you really think about it when you know from you know, those men from my context in in, you know combat from How I think about combat how I think about death Like those guys had a significant axe to grind because they're like we need fucking help.

03:39:32 Speaker_03
We need you to open up the western front I'm, not validating stalin because once again, I think he's a complete piece of shit I know what you're saying, but yeah, yeah is a Russian right?

03:39:43 Speaker_03
population knowing that we delayed the opening up the Western Front to go and Take over essentially, you know Hitler Nazi not Nazi Europe because at that point obviously it wasn't just one person and

03:40:03 Speaker_03
Yeah, we have a significant amount of mistrust with you guys because we lost you know 20 million people plus the civilian population I mean some estimates 30 million fucking people and you guys opened up Normandy came through and then you're telling everybody that you won You're the reason you won World War two and you're not even giving us any validated credit.

03:40:26 Speaker_03
They they had invaded Japan before we We dropped the bomb and the Japanese were just as terrified of the Russians as they were the Americans.

03:40:40 Speaker_03
However, I can see from the Russian perspective going, man, we sacrificed millions of people to defeat the Nazis. And you guys are basically giving us no credit.

03:40:55 Speaker_03
So I think back and I'm like, man, 1945, like where these guys were at, because they're all about my same age. We went to combat roughly the same age. And there were a lot of people that were debating.

03:41:10 Speaker_03
All of these issues back then, 1945, 1946, they were talking about, you know, not only Stalin, but, you know, Patton was talking about, like, we need to just keep going, right?

03:41:21 Speaker_03
Patton was talking about, like, going, we need to keep going, we need to defeat Soviet Russia. And Eisenhower was like, actually, no, you're crazy. Fuck, dude. Think that's what he said. You know. I think that's who's like.

03:41:34 Speaker_03
Hey fuck dude like what are you talking about?

03:41:36 Speaker_03
He said when he addressed the nation yeah, right yeah, that was right after that So I I keep thinking about myself and that like those guys I think about myself a lot of times to were you know 20 plus years after the fact like this is 1968

03:41:52 Speaker_03
This is 1968, man, from our war. So from 1945 to 1968, give or take, you think about all these GWAT guys that are being appointed. It's kind of a cool revolution, but 68 was a very important year in American history.

03:42:10 Speaker_03
I think 24 was a really important year in American history.

03:42:13 Speaker_10
Yeah. 24 is a big one. The one we're in right now is a big one. I think when people look back at history with these great moments of change, I mean, think about how people look back at the Reagan administration, like when Reagan got elected.

03:42:31 Speaker_10
What a landslide. They look back at those days. We look back at these historical moments, but I think this one is crazier than any of them. This guy gets kicked out. They try to put him in jail multiple times. He gets shot at. He says, fight, fight, fight.

03:42:44 Speaker_10
he and then he wins he wins in a landslide when they were all saying that it was a close race and The whole thing is just wild to watch It's like this is nuts like this this shows nuts if you're watching this show on TV like these writers are fucking amazing

03:43:00 Speaker_10
Whatever they're doing, like, keep doing this. This show's crazy. There's twists and turns. You got your crazy billionaire character, who doesn't even seem real. Doesn't even seem real. This guy's making rockets and electric cars. He's a fucking robot.

03:43:13 Speaker_10
There's no way. Buys Twitter because he wants to save free speech. What? It's insane. And the people that used to love him now hate him. The people that are driving their Teslas around, like, God damn it.

03:43:24 Speaker_10
They're angry, but they still have a lease, you know? Tell him you're Tesla, you hate Elon, you hate X, and Don Lemon said, I'm leaving X. There's no good discussions to be had here.

03:43:36 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's fucking boo-hoo.

03:43:39 Speaker_10
Oh, you don't like criticism. You don't like criticism. If you want to get into this game, OK, you want to get into the online game, the online game's different. In the online game, you get judged by who you fucking actually are, dude.

03:43:52 Speaker_10
It's not about your producers and your teleprompter and shut up. You're on your own.

03:43:58 Speaker_10
If people think you're stupid you're gonna hear it and it might be because you're stupid It might be look people say a lot of people are stupid that are not stupid I've seen people say brilliant people. I've seen people say Elon Musk is stupid.

03:44:10 Speaker_10
I have seen that I've seen that I've seen there's you're gonna get it. No matter what you're gonna get it. Everyone's gonna get it But if everybody's saying you're stupid, maybe. You might be stupid!

03:44:21 Speaker_10
You might be stupid and you might have been protected from that stupid by these network shows.

03:44:25 Speaker_10
If you want to exist online and you don't like criticism on Twitter, or you think there's disinformation on Twitter, community notes on Twitter is the greatest fucking thing that's ever been created.

03:44:34 Speaker_10
Because people get to look through the community notes and find out, oh, that is bullshit, and here's why it's bullshit. Or, oh, that actually is true. Even though it sounds crazy and people are protesting, it's actually true. That's fun. That's good.

03:44:46 Speaker_10
We learned something. If you can't handle that, well, you can go wherever. Where do you go now? Where do you go? Where do you go? Threads? What? People go to Threads? Nobody goes to Threads. But they were for a while.

03:44:57 Speaker_03
Are you crazy? Seriously?

03:44:58 Speaker_10
They were for a while, yeah. It's not going to work, I don't think.

03:45:00 Speaker_03
No. Have you ever had, I don't know, have you ever had Zuckerberg on?

03:45:03 Speaker_10
Yeah, I like Zuckerberg a lot. Yeah, yeah, I like him a lot. I think he's a weird guy, but you have to be a weird guy if you're super genius 100 billionaire who's into jiu-jitsu? He's a weird guy, but he's cool. I like him.

03:45:15 Speaker_10
I've had fun with him Yeah, we we played a fencing game together with virtual goggles.

03:45:19 Speaker_03
Yeah.

03:45:19 Speaker_10
Yeah, we both put on heat fences So we both got online when he was like in Hawaii or San Francisco. We did in the same room. Okay, it was fun yeah, the new oculus is fucking cool and you've got to wonder where that's gonna be because

03:45:33 Speaker_10
When I first tried the very first Oculus, it was kind of cool, but kind of crude in a way. And with each new version of it, you get like, it's much smaller now.

03:45:44 Speaker_10
It used to be, we had a cable, and the cable was attached to the ceiling on a wire so that you can move back and forth through all these wires connected to you when you have the Oculus. So you had to be plugged into the computer, actually.

03:45:56 Speaker_10
But now you're not. Now it's just on your head. And now it's fucking resolution's pretty goddamn good. And it's weird.

03:46:02 Speaker_10
Like you do things like you can go to a comedy club and you sit in the audience and there's all these other people in there, there's a comedian on stage. It's fucking strange.

03:46:09 Speaker_10
There's all these little online games you can play with other people, 3D shooters and shit, and you got goggles on, you feel like you're in the game. It's real weird. And most people are kind of freaked out by it.

03:46:19 Speaker_10
So I don't think it's like, they went with that whole meta thing. They thought everybody was gonna dive into the metaverse. But I think,

03:46:25 Speaker_10
there's this uncanny valley between like you put the goggles on and you're in the world and you kind of feel you feel uneasy like this is weird this feels weird vr feels strange like a lot of people make some dizzy they want to take it off yeah my wife is like that yeah mine is too but i think they're going to get to a point where it's not going to feel weird

03:46:45 Speaker_10
Like there's some commercial applications, like there's a company called Sandbox, and they have this fucking amazing game called Deadwood Mansion.

03:46:54 Speaker_10
And in Deadwood Mansion, you go into this warehouse space, they have one in Austin, they have one in Woodland Hills, where we used to go, it was right down the street from the studio.

03:47:01 Speaker_10
You put goggles on, and all of a sudden you're in a mansion, you got a shotgun, and zombies are running at you from everywhere, and you're, boom, you're blowing their heads off.

03:47:09 Speaker_02
Seriously?

03:47:09 Speaker_10
Oh yeah.

03:47:10 Speaker_00
Okay.

03:47:11 Speaker_10
It's fucking amazing. Dude, no one in my family wants to play it anymore. Why is it too intense? I get very intense. Very intense when I'm killing zombies.

03:47:19 Speaker_09
They don't like it.

03:47:20 Speaker_10
It's gross. It's like, I'm like, come on, let's kill zombies. Like for Father's Day, I made them come kill zombies with me. I fucking love it. That was your Father's Day present?

03:47:28 Speaker_03
Yeah. You told your parents. Go kill zombies. Daddy wants to kill zombies with everybody. That's fucking awesome.

03:47:33 Speaker_10
It's fun. You got a shotgun, and they're running at you, and you're blasting their heads off, and you get attacked from behind.

03:47:38 Speaker_04
That's fucking awesome.

03:47:39 Speaker_10
And you have a haptic feedback vest, and you see red when they're attacking you. You see splatters of red in front of your face when they're attacking you, and you're shooting them in the face.

03:47:45 Speaker_03
Everybody wants to do that, dude. Oh, it's so fun! I mean, if we were like, oh, we're in a zombie apocalypse, how many dudes do you know, they're like, oh my god, awesome, awesome.

03:47:56 Speaker_10
This is gonna be fun. They're so slow. They're so slow, like, oh. But these ones are pretty fast. The ones in this, some of them run at you. They run at you.

03:48:04 Speaker_00
It makes it more fun.

03:48:05 Speaker_10
Remember that movie, 28 Days Later, where the zombies were running? That's the scariest zombie movie. Running zombies, that's the real zombie. The walking dead zombies, get the fuck out of here, bitch. You ain't getting me.

03:48:16 Speaker_03
So disappointing. The first five seasons were great. How are they not all dead? How are not all the zombies dead? They just keep going.

03:48:25 Speaker_09
It's just more and more zombies. How's that possible?

03:48:27 Speaker_03
Kill them all.

03:48:28 Speaker_09
It's so easy to kill them.

03:48:30 Speaker_03
I can't get enough zombie movies. I love them. I love the post-apocalypse. You know what I don't like?

03:48:36 Speaker_10
Daryl using field tips. So stupid. Why is he using field tips on his crossbow? That drives me crazy. That drives me crazy.

03:48:45 Speaker_03
And he's like pulling them out, loading them back up, and you're like, dude, come on, man. You're making me angry.

03:48:52 Speaker_09
You don't lose any fletchings?

03:48:53 Speaker_03
You don't get any pass-throughs? No. No pass-throughs. It's all just like sticking in their heads.

03:48:59 Speaker_10
What the fuck are you talking about?

03:49:01 Speaker_03
This is the dumbest weapon ever Yeah, Darryl that fucking field tips gotta go son. You don't have any broad heads. You got to put like a Solid like tri-blade or something on there. Yeah, yeah Like get a really good car.

03:49:15 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's what you want Yeah, like a Montec those Montec carbon steels. Yeah, send it. What was that one? The hide? What was it? Yeah, the hide. God, dude. Yeah, man. That did a lot of damage. I'm very impressed with that one.

03:49:31 Speaker_10
Because that one, I got the 125 grain one, which has the steel ferrule. And it's got a two inch cut with the mechanical blade and a three quarter inch cut with the fixed. So it doesn't make a big hole opening going in.

03:49:44 Speaker_09
So two and three quarters?

03:49:45 Speaker_10
This is all technical talk, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, two and three quarters. It's a broadhead for archery. When it goes in, that's when the blades open. So the Rage, which I used to use, the T2 now, the Dudley version, that opens up on the way in.

03:49:58 Speaker_10
So it leaves a big hole all the way in. But this one opens up inside. So really, you're penetrating with the fixed head. And then once you're passing in, the pressure is what makes the other two blades go. So it really makes a pretty small entry hole.

03:50:12 Speaker_10
But the exit hole is a crime scene. The exit hole was a crime scene because you're going out with two and three quarter inches. It's just instant death for the animal. It's like super ethical.

03:50:24 Speaker_10
I think when it comes to like the amount of damage they can do, those mechanical, they put animals down so quick. So quick. Yeah. There's something to be said for that giant cut that they make inside. It's just so different.

03:50:39 Speaker_10
Like cams, he's using a catapult. It's basically a catapult. That four blade carnivore thing.

03:50:46 Speaker_03
That's insane. But Cam changed my life, like he really did. He was like, create a really big hole. He goes, I don't care what you do, just create a giant hole and that's because you're going to put the arrow in the right spot.

03:51:01 Speaker_03
If you create a giant hole, then you're gonna have a great blood trail and you're gonna find your animal. He rewrote my entire hunt sequence this year.

03:51:13 Speaker_10
Because you were, before that you were penetration.

03:51:16 Speaker_03
Yeah.

03:51:16 Speaker_10
Right. Which is another way of looking at it, right? If you're thinking about a cut, a cut that goes through the entire body is a very long cut and is always lethal if you get them in the vitals.

03:51:25 Speaker_01
Yep.

03:51:26 Speaker_10
But you don't get a blood trail and they don't die as quick. No. The dying as quick thing is the one in Tejon last year, that bull died in like less than 10 seconds.

03:51:36 Speaker_10
How many seconds was it seven if that maybe five ran up to the top of the hill and just fell down?

03:51:42 Speaker_03
I've never I've never seen anything die.

03:51:43 Speaker_03
I've never seen anything die that fast and that's those big mechanicals like it and I'm not saying that because Yeah, it's you know, you're Joe like you're just the dude on the side of the mountain that was shooting that all that I was watching like it fucking died faster than

03:51:59 Speaker_03
Anything I've seen even shot with a rifle in the in the chest cavity, right, right. So Clearly differentiating between like shot. Yeah a head shot in a chest cavity. I've never seen anything die that fast from an animal It was dead.

03:52:13 Speaker_10
Yeah, I think there's something to be said for those giant holes because it's just if especially if you have a strong bow So if you have a bow that is a lot of kinetic energy and a lot of speed and you're shooting a heavy arrow and it's hitting that rib cage like

03:52:25 Speaker_10
There's something for that big cut. It just stops them dead. Are you at 80? 80 or 84?

03:52:30 Speaker_09
Yeah.

03:52:31 Speaker_10
The new bow's 84. Oh, the new Hoyt is so smooth.

03:52:34 Speaker_03
Oh, it's so smooth. They just came out yesterday. Yeah. I gotta go find the new one.

03:52:43 Speaker_10
I felt so special. I had one for a couple months and I had to blur it out when I took pictures. I know.

03:52:48 Speaker_03
Blur it out. I felt like such a chump. I was out there day on. I was like, I'll just cut the old one. It's not a big deal, man.

03:52:55 Speaker_10
Well, I used to think that when I saw Cam shoot his, I'm like, how can it be better? These are so good, how can they be better? And then you shoot the new one, you're like, God damn it, it's better.

03:53:02 Speaker_10
It's super accurate, like so dead in the hand, like the, the way the shot breaks, it's just like, they keep making it smoother, smoother draw cycle, it's faster.

03:53:12 Speaker_03
Which, so you're doing 84. Yeah. What are you Garmin? What's your, what's your feet per second on it?

03:53:19 Speaker_10
Oh, it's 293 or 294. So what are you shooting, 450? 475? Yeah, I bumped it up because I went to those 125 grain heads, but my bow went from 80 pounds to 84 with the new one, and then it kind of made up the difference.

03:53:33 Speaker_10
So the 25 grains, and it was basically the same kind of speed as with the last one, which I had a 450 grain arrow. So there's like a, I think there's probably like a number you shouldn't go below. I don't know what that number is.

03:53:46 Speaker_10
You know, like grains, like some people they'll hunt elk with like a 300 grain arrow. And a lot of people don't do that. Don't do that.

03:53:53 Speaker_10
You can get away with it because like, well, my daughter shot an elk and it was a pass through and she's got a 50 pound bow. Okay. She got lucky. She got lucky. You need some force to get in there.

03:54:03 Speaker_03
Like if you're shooting 500 on an 84 pound, 85 pound bow, so let's say you're doing, even if you're doing 270, that's still, boom, massive penetration.

03:54:17 Speaker_10
Massive kinetic energy, especially if you have carbon arrows. I love those carbon arrows with the victories with the slick outside, because you pull them out of target so much easier. Who's making those? The Vaps. What are they called, the TKOs?

03:54:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, I love those things. RIP TKOs, that's it.

03:54:33 Speaker_10
RIP TKOs, those are great. Their coating that they have on it is like, it's so easy to pull out of it. They got like a Teflon or some shit on them? Yeah, but you gotta think that aids in penetration too, it has to. Right?

03:54:44 Speaker_10
I mean, isn't that why guys like the thin diameter? Cam shoots those, I don't know if he's doing it now, but he was for a long time, he was shooting those four millimeter arrows. Right. Those real skinny ones.

03:54:57 Speaker_10
The four mil I like lighted knocks and the four millimeter with the lighted knocks make me nervous like why it's gonna because knocks break sometimes And they're more vulnerable because they get that little light inside of them instead of being a big solid piece of plastic, right?

03:55:09 Speaker_10
You know Like I always change them before hunts. I always put fresh ones on I never trust ones that have been sitting around never trust ones that are shot already and I'll shoot them a bunch of times, like for practice, but they break sometimes.

03:55:22 Speaker_10
And especially, I'm not paying attention, so I might be accidentally touching arrows. I do the same thing.

03:55:26 Speaker_03
Like, I have fresh arrows for hunting. Yeah, always.

03:55:28 Speaker_03
But they're the exact same setup for practice, so that's why I like the sever or something like that, because the severs, you can pin them, and then I can just shoot the shit out of those, and then just not use the pin.

03:55:44 Speaker_03
Yeah, you know, that's huge That's why I like them because I can shoot the same exact weight and dimensions and I know the flight characteristics are going to be the exact same versus Sometimes when you get those Practice heads.

03:55:57 Speaker_03
Yeah, they're different. Mm-hmm. They actually have different Flight characteristics because the way that they're put together is not exactly the same and I believe in the fact that it's like hey, man, if you got a

03:56:08 Speaker_03
Slight fin on the front and it's a different fin on the back even though it's only an inch you still have to be a hundred percent Consistent to maintain the same flight character.

03:56:17 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's why when guides get real nerdy about like what helix like what kind of helical you have on the veins and like what kind of twist you put your veins and you have to have the You know a single bevel blade that twists for the broadhead in the exact same direction Don't get a right twist with left veins Then you'll get all fucked up

03:56:37 Speaker_10
But there are ideas that you're trying to get the broadhead to spin through the animal. That's the whole idea behind the single bevel. Do you think that's true, though? There's something to it, yeah.

03:56:47 Speaker_10
There's something to single bevels because of the cut, the way the edge is cut. So, for people listening, single bevel means the edge angles in on one side. Double bevel means it comes together as a point. Right?

03:57:01 Speaker_10
So think of a blade, but a blade with only one side that you can, you know, you see like where the steel is ground down to the edge. The other side doesn't have that.

03:57:11 Speaker_10
So the idea is that that creates this angle and that when you're spinning, your arrow is spinning because the helicals of your vein, it goes into the animal's body cavity and the bevel in the broadhead accentuates that spin.

03:57:25 Speaker_10
And it continues that spin through the body causing like a whirlwind of trauma

03:57:30 Speaker_10
Inside the animal and that it you know it almost effect acts as multiple blades because it's kind of spinning around It's not just cutting a straight line It's twisting But the question is like how much twist and is it more effective to have like a four blade thing?

03:57:43 Speaker_10
Like a four like a tooth of the arrow like one that you get you know those I don't think it's true You don't think it's been the the bevel spin. I don't think it does

03:57:52 Speaker_10
I think it does a little, because there's a guy named Lusk Archery and he does these tests on these things and he actually shoots them into ballistic gel and you can see them spin. So some of them do spin.

03:58:03 Speaker_03
But I think it's too complex though. Once you have a ribcage, and let's just say, even the consistency of the ribcage. So we'll just say perpendicular shop from the ribcage at 40 yards. So we'll just keep all of the variables basically the same.

03:58:23 Speaker_03
Even then, there's no nicking of the rib, there's no variation of the actual animal skin, there's no slight courting ways or courting towards, there's no... So ballistic jail, I think... There leaves a lot of questions for me.

03:58:43 Speaker_03
So even though it's twisting in the ballistic gel, because it's consistent, you're shooting it directly perpendicular into a very consistent format. And you're getting a consistent result. You're not going to get a consistent result.

03:58:57 Speaker_03
I just don't believe you're going to get a consistent result through a rib cage.

03:58:59 Speaker_10
Well, that's the reason why a lot of people like mechanicals. It's one of the things that they say is that the cut is so large when you get into the body cavity that you take out all the other variables.

03:59:09 Speaker_10
It's going to do so much more trauma than something that's just a slit blade that, let's say you do hit that rib cage, and it does slice and only hit one lung because it deflected off of it, and it doesn't spin at all, and now you lost the animal.

03:59:22 Speaker_10
Whereas you get a mechanical, it goes in there, it creates this massive fucking hole. It does all this trauma going through two and three quarter inches of trauma going to the animal. The odds of that animal surviving are gone.

03:59:33 Speaker_10
If you get them in the body cavity, they're gone. And I've seen people hit people with really good shots with small broad heads and not do much damage to the point where the animal runs off. They have a hard time blood trailing it.

03:59:45 Speaker_10
Even if the animal dies 30 minutes, 60 minutes later, you might have a hard time finding it, especially if you bumped it.

03:59:51 Speaker_03
100% I've had that exact experience like multiple times with those little broad heads. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah he Cam like I said, he changed the entire way he thought about it.

04:00:04 Speaker_10
Yeah, because he's like create a big hole Well, he changed his thought about it, too. He was always a fixed-blade guy. Oh, yeah, and then Who told him to do that? Oh, Wayne did from the boatwreck.

04:00:15 Speaker_02
Oh, really?

04:00:16 Speaker_10
Yeah, Wayne said, you got to try these carnivores. So just trust me, just try them. It's like, these things are crazy. It opens up these four-blade catapults. It looks like one of those turkey broadheads, you know what I mean?

04:00:28 Speaker_09
It's crazy.

04:00:29 Speaker_10
And because the design is just like the hides, it opens up from the front. So once it's inside, then it's doing all its damage.

04:00:36 Speaker_10
So you don't have to worry about it getting destroyed going in through rib cages and stuff, as much as you do with other things. Because it's really just going to get a little hole going in, and then once it's in, then it's opening.

04:00:47 Speaker_10
It's kind of a perfect idea. The only thing that people don't like, like Dudley doesn't like, it doesn't leave a big hole on the outside. I talked to Dudley about it, he's like, I want extreme trauma. I just want one big giant cut with all that energy.

04:01:02 Speaker_10
He's going through, think of it like sticking a samurai sword through the animal's body. And you know, obviously he's one of the best bow hunters on earth too.

04:01:12 Speaker_10
So there's a bunch of different philosophies on it, but I think the idea of the mechanical blade is legit. And I like the hybrid idea the best, because then you always have a fixed blade no matter what.

04:01:23 Speaker_03
I like the hybrid. Obviously, this year was great because I like the hybrid a lot more than going either pure mechanical or pure fixed.

04:01:33 Speaker_10
You feel like you got a little insurance policy.

04:01:35 Speaker_03
Yeah. It's like the best of both worlds. You're like, okay, cool. Let's keep consistent with this. Everybody I talk to, they have Throughout the past year you several years.

04:01:48 Speaker_03
They have all different opinions, which is Broadheads are like, you know assholes. Everybody has a fucking different opinion or and You know, John has his opinion cam has his opinion. Everybody has their opinion like my buddy Dan and

04:02:04 Speaker_03
Yeah, he's got his opinion all these guys have opinions. So I'm just trying to like and they're all successful That's the crazy thing.

04:02:12 Speaker_03
It's like you're trying to sort it out like who's right and so I'm just trying to like create the data and put it down into a What works for me?

04:02:22 Speaker_03
Mm-hmm, and I don't have any sponsorships So I'm just right which allows me to be fairly empirical in the way that I'm actually selecting the criteria But I don't also don't have the reps these guys do either so you have to rely on their Their data and then collect all of it and then kind of put it in one one one case.

04:02:41 Speaker_10
Yeah Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm always fucking around with things. That's one of the cool things about archery is all the tinkering and You know, there's like so many different things you could try.

04:02:50 Speaker_10
Like this year's the first time I tried a 15-inch front bar. You know, I went to a 15-inch front bar with a 12-inch back bar. Ooh, I like it so much better. Really? Yeah, because I was using that Quivalizer, and the problem is with wind, it's a sail.

04:03:04 Speaker_10
That sail just pushes your pin around too much. Bro, I love that guy, though. Oh, yeah, it's a great look the Equivalizer.

04:03:10 Speaker_10
I used it for years It's a great invention, but I find that with wind in particular I know on a long the the balance that I would get from that Equivalizer I can get from that I'm using a cutter stabilizer with a 15-inch front bar and a 12-inch back bar right and it's perfect

04:03:25 Speaker_10
It holds so good. It holds so nice. It feels so dead on. And this year I went with a 10 degree downward angle of the front bar.

04:03:34 Speaker_03
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Why did you go with it down versus what matters whether or not it's perpendicular to the ground?

04:03:41 Speaker_10
I know, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. But I was talking to these archers who do it, and Levi Morgan does it. His goes at a downward angle too.

04:03:49 Speaker_10
And I was talking to this archer and he said it actually, for some reason, it helps you hold better. Like, it locks in better. Really?

04:03:56 Speaker_10
Yeah, the slight downward thing with when you're pulling back, there's something about the slight downward angle of it that it lets you hold better with the same amount of weight.

04:04:03 Speaker_03
Right.

04:04:04 Speaker_10
Because it's going in a different direction than just straightforward. It doesn't totally make sense, but I really believe in it. Like, when I started doing it, I was like, ooh, there's a little different feel to this. I love that.

04:04:15 Speaker_10
I love all the tinkering. I love the tinkering. That's my favorite thing. It's so much fun because it's, it's like, there's all these different ways to do it. You know, there's all these different releases, there's all these different styles of releases.

04:04:30 Speaker_10
There's so many different things you can fuck with. You could just go down a rabbit hole after rabbit hole.

04:04:35 Speaker_03
I know that's what I did a you know, you and I I would say like 90% of their texts are around Yeah, like what release am I doing and I went I think I bought 20 releases this year like over the course of 23 24 after you know the hunting season. Mm-hmm

04:04:59 Speaker_03
It's fun. It's just pure fun. Yeah, because okay, dude.

04:05:03 Speaker_03
I know I got it It's like 250 bucks sure you buy a release And I I fuck with it for you know a couple weeks I get the pros and cons about it, and then I pass it over to What the guy that runs my little bow shop there a black rifle Isaac?

04:05:20 Speaker_03
I pass it off to him like sell it on eBay. I don't give a fuck and

04:05:24 Speaker_10
Got a box of them. Yeah, I got a box of different releases. I've tried everything from four-finger releases to two-finger releases What I really like is that one with the clicker that onyx of the clicker.

04:05:34 Speaker_10
It's got this little click and then Shoot that as good as I could shoot a hinge So you get the best of both worlds you get like the ability to make it go off if you have to you know if there's some weird situation where you know there's you have like a literal a split second to make a very close shot you can get away with that and

04:05:52 Speaker_10
Or you could shoot at a long-distance target and feel just as comfortable as you do with a hinge. Because there's something about having that little click and that onyx clicker. Like once you feel that little click, you know it's about to go off.

04:06:05 Speaker_10
You just pull through it.

04:06:06 Speaker_03
It's so funny. I'm the exact opposite. I hate that fucking click.

04:06:12 Speaker_09
Like when I'm when I'm on the click Like I just wanted to go off.

04:06:18 Speaker_10
I just wanted to go it does fuck with your head But one thing it does is it puts all your concentration in the shot process instead of like hammering the trigger, right?

04:06:24 Speaker_10
Just so you hear that click, you know, it's right there Yeah, just pull through it and it's so it's such a delicate little click that once you get it in your head and you shoot with it a bunch of times you like welcome it like

04:06:39 Speaker_03
Okay, so you're you're like Looking forward.

04:06:43 Speaker_10
Yeah, I'm way and then the click is like settle in we're right there It's like that one extra step that gives you this one extra little piece of concentration Joel Turner talks about it in that whole shot IQ process and he developed it.

04:06:55 Speaker_10
He developed onyx clicker So that one little thing that one little click is what separates it from a regular trigger and then bow Then you get all your thought process into the shot process and just making sure you do a good shot Huh? Yeah, all right.

04:07:14 Speaker_10
I've used it It's a thing you got to get used to like everything else like but then you talk to cam Haynes He just fucking hammers that trigger. I know she's everything so it's like some people can't do it that way.

04:07:24 Speaker_10
It's weird Everybody's got a different way. They like to do it

04:07:27 Speaker_03
It pisses me off so bad, because I see some of my buddies... Do you know who Chris Jensen is, the country music singer? He and I have hunted together a few times in Colorado. He just hammers the trigger.

04:07:42 Speaker_03
It's the craziest thing you've ever seen in your life. He's just like, pow! That's kind of how Cam does it. He does that.

04:07:51 Speaker_07
He touches off the trigger.

04:07:52 Speaker_03
I look at him every time. Oh my god, man. How are you like hitting the target?

04:07:57 Speaker_10
He's like just Center mass just over and over again, but I think it's a mindfuck That a lot of people put their head into that you're gonna get target panic and that you can't control your emotions during a shot process to the point where you could Command trigger, but it doesn't make any sense to me now.

04:08:14 Speaker_10
I It doesn't make any sense from like, I can understand the psychological aspect of target panic, but I have a feeling that it comes from two different things. It comes from buck fever, which is like you're freaking out.

04:08:24 Speaker_10
You never shot a buck this big before. Oh my God, he's right there. And you're like, ah, and you freak out. That's normal. But that's an experience thing. And you have to learn what that is.

04:08:32 Speaker_10
And if you do it a bunch of times, then you get to the point where like, oh, I know how to control myself. I know what this is. And the more often you do it, like if you can go on a couple of pig hunts and then go on an elk hunt,

04:08:41 Speaker_10
You're way more in the groove. You're like right there. You know what to do. You know how to do it. And you could touch the trigger off 100%. Cam does it every goddamn time.

04:08:50 Speaker_10
I think it comes from the target archery community, because I think those guys are staring at these fucking little tiny Xs from 20 yards, and they got to shoot 30 of them in a row. And I think you get mind fucked.

04:09:03 Speaker_10
And that's why those guys have hinges and all these crazy and 40-inch fucking stabilizers and V's that come out the back. And it's all about not moving. Plop, plop. But that's not bowhunting.

04:09:14 Speaker_10
And we were talking about this, that I think the difference between bowhunting and target archery is like the difference between doing free throws and playing basketball.

04:09:22 Speaker_03
Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

04:09:23 Speaker_10
Free throws, nobody's fucking with you, you're on the line, you can measure it, you can sit there and you can throw it.

04:09:29 Speaker_03
Different sport.

04:09:30 Speaker_10
Basketball, you're running around. People are trying to block.

04:09:33 Speaker_03
Different sport, same sub skill set. Right, that's hunting.

04:09:36 Speaker_10
Hunting is basketball. Target archery is free throws. That's what I think. Yeah. That's what I think. And I think you can't tell a guy like Cam Haines is doing it the wrong way.

04:09:46 Speaker_10
If the best guy does it that way, you have to go, okay, why do we think he can't do it that way? Well, it's psychological. It's all psychological. It's all panic. It's all not being able to control your nerves.

04:09:58 Speaker_10
If you can shoot perfectly that way at a target, you should be able to shoot perfectly at an animal. You should be able to. The animal isn't some fucking invulnerable thing that you have to do it a certain way or the frequency is not correct.

04:10:13 Speaker_10
No, it's an animal.

04:10:14 Speaker_03
It's just like a target. The army marksmanship team is not Delta Force like this Very different very good shooters army marksmanship team probably Extremely proficient shooters, maybe even better so than Delta.

04:10:31 Speaker_03
However, it's a different scenario based Completely different.

04:10:35 Speaker_10
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, just because you shoot accurate at a stationary target doesn't mean you understand how to The freak out.

04:10:43 Speaker_03
When you have a horse coming in with swords on its head. The freak out. It's a fucking different thing, man. It's screaming. It's like, ah, I'm super horny. I'm going to fuck you.

04:10:55 Speaker_09
I'm going to kill you. I don't know.

04:10:56 Speaker_10
And you're like, could you imagine if you came over from Europe and there was no elk over there and you were camping in the woods. You were one of those first guys, your stupid fucking burlap tent. And you hear, brrr.

04:11:11 Speaker_03
Demons this fucking you don't know you're like this is thing gonna right is it gonna run me through it sounds like I 100% gonna kill you I would be more scared of that than a bear Yeah, this has giant swords on it.

04:11:23 Speaker_10
Well if it runs straight at you, and yeah pails you and I Had one come in I'll be more scared of a bear though.

04:11:31 Speaker_03
I feel like I grab an antler oh

04:11:32 Speaker_03
If I hadn't seen any one of these before and like something comes in and it's got giant pointy things on its head and I'm like trying to be completely blank slate and I've got this other fuzzy thing that I can't really see it's like claws and teeth I'm like, my god, I'm way more afraid of this thing with swords on its head.

04:11:50 Speaker_10
Depends on the size of the bear. Depends on what kind of bear we're talking about yeah, like if it's a little black bear.

04:11:56 Speaker_03
I don't give a shit I don't care. I don't care about those things at all like it's it's so they're they're kind of obnoxious Do you see that one that got shot in New Jersey?

04:12:04 Speaker_10
That's 880 pounds 770 pounds dressed see in New Jersey dude in New Jersey that East Coast How is that possible they have the most? They have the most black bears per capita in the whole country

04:12:19 Speaker_10
We've played a hundred times the video of the bears wrestling in the middle of a neighborhood in Far Rockaway. Big fucking black bears. Just going to war in the middle of the street.

04:12:29 Speaker_03
I had a, I grew up in this middle of the like logging community out in the middle of nowhere. And there was this dude that used to keep, it's a wee iPad out in the middle of nowhere, dude. It's like so Hill Jack, but it's awesome.

04:12:44 Speaker_03
My grandfather everybody they're all hardcore loggers, but I'm not exaggerating we had a guy Just outside of town that a pet bear a pet black bear I mean he's a full-grown fucking black bear. Oh my god, and he would just This is the sad part.

04:13:04 Speaker_03
He had defanged it because it would slobber on people. Oh God. He had a full on black bear that would suck on his arm basically. Oh Jesus.

04:13:18 Speaker_10
He fanged a couple people accidentally?

04:13:20 Speaker_03
He what? He fanged a couple of people accidentally, playing with them.

04:13:24 Speaker_10
Oh god, so he made them gummy.

04:13:26 Speaker_03
Yeah, gummy. What did he feed it? Who the fuck knows, man. Donuts. When I see this, these are loggers. How long did he have this bear?

04:13:40 Speaker_03
I tend to like you know what a crazy turn down the volume on my like redneck upbringing We would drive by it on our way to another town and he had a fucking bear in his front yard in a cage It was insane, dude

04:14:06 Speaker_03
No, no, I kept it in a cage big cage just imagine he never let it out No, he'd let it all the time. He's like fucking walking around like the guy was a complete insane person Oh my god, and my uncle My great uncle, he's like 80 years old.

04:14:26 Speaker_03
Complete crazy person too. Taught himself how to fly back in the day. Came back from World War II. He was a Navy ship guy. Taught himself how to fly. He would fly around this Piper Super Cub and back in the day you get a bounty for cougar tails.

04:14:47 Speaker_03
So he had a walker hound and he would put him in the front seat of his Piper Super Cub and fly around looking for tracks, land his plane in the middle of fucking nowhere, kick his dog out.

04:15:00 Speaker_03
So he'd tell me these stories and I mean I hunted with this guy forever. And the dog would find the bear? Yeah. Punch him out on the bear or the cougar or whatever it was. Tree it. Tree it.

04:15:09 Speaker_03
Shoot it with a .22 Hornet because his whole thing was you let them bleed out in their lungs and then they'll fall out of the tree. You don't want to shoot them with too big of a caliber because it knocks them out of the tree and they run around.

04:15:22 Speaker_03
If you shoot them with small caliber and penetrates both lungs, their lungs fill up. Oh God. They drown and they fall out. Jesus Christ. This is what, like, my Cecil Ball, was my uncle back in the 80s. Did he have a backup gun?

04:15:37 Speaker_03
Oh yeah, like, this guy was completely insane. He had, like, when I was hunting with him- Because I wouldn't be comfortable with a Cougar and a .22. Dude!

04:15:45 Speaker_03
This guy was 80 years old when I was hunting cougars with him back in What the panhandle, Idaho and he was taught he would tell me stories and I would only go hunting with him To listen to the stories because they were the best fucking stories on the planet He crashed his plane.

04:16:01 Speaker_03
He got fired from the sawmill He was buzzing the tower buzzing the tower crashed his fucking plane into his boss's office. He's like fuck you I'm out of here He was a complete insane person.

04:16:16 Speaker_03
And he was telling me this other story, and these are like the summarized version, the cliff notes of it. But dude, he would bay cougars in the middle of the mountains by himself.

04:16:28 Speaker_03
He'd fly his plane, land in the middle of the snow, find a spot for him, bay cougars. And he had this cougar up in this log jam above a creek.

04:16:39 Speaker_03
He was told me this this cougar tucked himself underneath the logs above the creek and there's snow on top of the logs There's logs and then he was like crawling in underneath in the middle of the mountains with like a 357 snub nose Cuz he's like these this cougars eating my dogs and he's like reaching around my uncle who had like three strokes by the time that I was talking to him and

04:17:07 Speaker_03
He's like and he'd stutter a little bit He's driving like 80 miles an hour around like like crazy logging roads in the middle of nowhere. I'm white knuckling That his Toyota Tacoma is with cougar hounds in the back of the Toyota going.

04:17:22 Speaker_03
Oh my god I'm gonna fucking die any moment. He's like Yeah, and I got my

04:17:29 Speaker_03
You know, he's like he had a hit a slight stutter and pull out his snub nose 357 like a gangster and reach underneath the logs and start pulling the trigger once he found the right fur Between the cougar and his dogs.

04:17:46 Speaker_03
Oh my god this dude was completely insane when it came to doing things and This is my uncle. This is like the guy that I'm like hanging out with.

04:17:59 Speaker_10
He reached into the logs and felt his way to the cat?

04:18:04 Speaker_03
Yes. With a snub nose, whatever, you know, 357. Oh my God. To kill the cougar because he was pulling up his dogs and eating his dogs. Oh my God. Yeah. Holy shit.

04:18:18 Speaker_03
Like when you talk about where I grew up and like the guys I grew up with, because I, you know, I'm a green beret, you know? It's like, oh, you fucking pussy. Yeah, oh, you're not like walking around in the woods with a saw on your back.

04:18:35 Speaker_03
You know and I'm like yeah Just jumping on planes.

04:18:39 Speaker_04
I guess you know that's hilarious.

04:18:41 Speaker_10
They look down on it like that's an easy job That's so crazy I go home my dad would make fun of me like isn't it interesting that there's like levels of discipline and hard work in the world. If you wanna be a logger, there's no easy logger job.

04:19:05 Speaker_10
They don't exist. That is a hard fucking job. Those are hard men. You wanna be a logger and you're gonna do it for 30 years? You're gonna chop and carry trees for 30 fucking years?

04:19:19 Speaker_10
You're gonna be living in the woods, chopping and carrying trees for 30 fucking years?

04:19:24 Speaker_03
falling trees, wrapping big cables around them, and they'd be like, oh, you carried a backpack through the woods? And that's pretty cool.

04:19:33 Speaker_10
I mean, you think about the different groups of people that live these extreme lives, and how many people are at the coffee shop with blue hair that are totally oblivious.

04:19:44 Speaker_10
And they think hard work is like, I'm dealing with my trauma, and I'm going to Starbucks today to protest. It is a guy with a log on his back, and he's 75 years old. And he can't wait to get off work so he can kill cougars.

04:20:01 Speaker_03
Yeah. With a pistol. With a fucking .357.

04:20:05 Speaker_10
And we all exist on the same landmass.

04:20:09 Speaker_03
Yeah. Some dude that looks like he's like building bikes in the 1800s with the fucking curly comb mustache. It's like waxed up and you've got another guy that's like 80 years old. He's had three strokes. It's driving around in the mountains.

04:20:22 Speaker_03
It's running up a mountain at a six minute mile chasing his dogs to go kill a cougar. Nah, not the same person. Not the same order of priorities, you know what I mean?

04:20:35 Speaker_10
Well, there's probably a lot of those guys back in the day. Yeah. I bet that was a common type of human in like 1820. Yeah. But you ran it all, that was like how you had to stay alive. You know, you lived to be about 40, then you had a stroke.

04:20:50 Speaker_10
Everybody died. Nobody got any vitamins. Eating fucking cornmeal and gruel and trying to eat squirrels.

04:21:02 Speaker_09
You're barely getting by Like you're eating you're beating a bear.

04:21:07 Speaker_03
That's how fucking nasty they preferred bears.

04:21:11 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's what's crazy Apparently they they thought it tasted like beef. They cooked a lot of bears The grizzlies apparently are super gross I asked cam just released a new video redemption a grizzly bear.

04:21:25 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's not and it's good great video But he ate the bear. I was like, how did it taste like it was okay, and then I talked to James He's like it was fucking horrible Disgusting But black bear didn't taste that bad if you get it from a good spot.

04:21:39 Speaker_10
Apparently like Ranella says the blueberries, bears have been eating blueberries are the best tasting meat ever.

04:21:45 Speaker_03
But I think that's also relative to bear meat. So they're saying.

04:21:50 Speaker_10
No he says it's like a great tasting meat period.

04:21:52 Speaker_03
I don't believe him. I don't believe him.

04:21:54 Speaker_10
You don't think if it was like flavored with like all they ate was blueberries? I think the problem is they eat so much rotten shit.

04:22:00 Speaker_03
Yeah.

04:22:00 Speaker_10
And that affects the way they taste. But I think if they're eating only blueberries like, did you ever see his video?

04:22:05 Speaker_02
Mm-hmm.

04:22:05 Speaker_10
With the blueberry fat? Yeah. It's like purple fat. It's crazy. He said, that's delicious. He said, it's so delicious. I believe him. I love Steve. You think he's a fucking liar.

04:22:16 Speaker_03
I love Steve. He's awesome. He's so much fun to hunt with and he's so, but I just firmly disagree with him on this one. I'm like, bro, like, no.

04:22:25 Speaker_10
What is the best tasting game animal for you?

04:22:29 Speaker_03
Moose. Moose. Moose. Interesting. That's a good one. For me or for my kids, moose is the only game animal my kids are like,

04:22:39 Speaker_04
Yeah.

04:22:40 Speaker_03
Really? Yeah. They are 100% chips in. They look forward to it. Not only do they look forward to it, they request it. It's the only game meat. That's interesting. That's very interesting. Like I can eat elk, but I'm the only one at the table eating elk.

04:22:55 Speaker_03
Interesting. Yeah.

04:22:57 Speaker_10
I only shot one moose ever and I ate it and I remember it was good, but that was with Ben O'Brien like 10 years ago. But I haven't had a lot of experience with it. For me, it's axis deer and elk are the two best ones. Elk first, axis deer second. Yeah.

04:23:14 Speaker_10
Do you like axis?

04:23:15 Speaker_09
I love axis.

04:23:15 Speaker_10
It's crazy what it tastes like, right?

04:23:17 Speaker_09
Yeah. It doesn't taste like a deer. No, it's beef. Like, this is a totally different kind of animal.

04:23:20 Speaker_03
It's not even beef. It's like a clean... It's almost sweet. Yeah. It's a clean beef.

04:23:25 Speaker_10
Yeah. It's an interesting flavor. And the fact that, you know, they have so many of them in Hawaii. Like, that Maui Nui venison company, for people who want to buy wild game, You can get actual wild game from Maui Nui Venison. They'll ship you axis deer.

04:23:38 Speaker_10
Frozen, they have meat sticks. It's fucking great. I'm not affiliated with them. I know the owners, but I don't have anything to do with them. But it's a great company. And they're doing something that you actually have to do.

04:23:47 Speaker_10
There's no natural predators on Maui. So they have to shoot these axis deer. They're fucking everywhere.

04:23:53 Speaker_03
They're like, they're rodents.

04:23:55 Speaker_10
And they're delicious rodent. It's a crazy animal to hunt, too, because they grew up with tigers. So they evolved with tigers. So they move so fucking fast. They're the fastest animal I've ever hunted.

04:24:07 Speaker_03
I shot at a doe at 30 yards, bedded, and she dodged the arrow. It doesn't even make sense.

04:24:15 Speaker_09
They move so fast.

04:24:16 Speaker_03
It doesn't even make sense. I started shooting them at longer distance away because the arrows quiet and they can't hear the string slap. Yeah. So they can't hear the bow. So I started just shooting them a little bit further away.

04:24:31 Speaker_10
They still hear that. We stopped hunting them in the day. Because in the morning, there's no wind. We started hunting them only in the afternoon because there's more wind, and the wind at least covers a little bit of it.

04:24:41 Speaker_10
But Dudley got video of me shooting this saxes deer at 80 yards, and it's a perfect shot. Perfect. It's going right to the vitals at 80 yards. Perfect break. And then 10 yards. The arrow's 10 yards from him. He goes, pew, and he's gone.

04:24:55 Speaker_10
Within 10 yards, he was gone. He was nowhere near where the arrow hit.

04:24:58 Speaker_09
What?

04:24:58 Speaker_10
10 yards? He moved out of the way. He heard the arrow coming, and he moved out of the way. 10 yards from him. There's a video of it, slow-mo video. because it's a lighted knock. You see a perfect line headed straight for his vitals and then gone. Gone.

04:25:13 Speaker_10
Not even close. Not even close. Like a bullet. I missed him by like a whole quarter. He was gone. He just ran away. They hear things. They think a tiger's coming. They just go. They just go. It just makes you feel so slow when you watch how they move.

04:25:34 Speaker_10
People suck. We're so fucking clumsy and soft and we're so vulnerable. My back hurts.

04:25:40 Speaker_03
My my arrow that's moving it, you know 300 feet per second.

04:25:44 Speaker_10
It has no chance.

04:25:45 Speaker_03
No chance.

04:25:46 Speaker_10
No chance Yeah, especially if they see the bow go off or they hear the bow go off And they're delicious and they're everywhere in Texas too that's the wild thing about Texas you could just bring whatever you want in Well, you want zebras you can bring zebras you had zebras My wife saw a zebra one day when she's driving the kids to school

04:26:08 Speaker_10
I know. I saw a zebra. I think I saw a zebra. I said, you probably did. Some asshole probably has a zebra. The zebra got out.

04:26:16 Speaker_03
My kids would be driving around like, let's go look at the zebras. OK, let's go look at the zebras.

04:26:22 Speaker_10
You could have zebras in Texas. But I love it. I love it that you can go to like, when we went to that place down in South Texas, that ranch that my friend owns, when we went down there, there's African animals here.

04:26:33 Speaker_03
Yeah.

04:26:33 Speaker_10
If these crazy black bucks and all these different animals are not from anywhere near here and there's thousands of them like this is nuts.

04:26:41 Speaker_03
Well you shot that Neil guy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But everybody says that's the best meat ever. So put it on the scale associated with everything else. I like elk.

04:26:52 Speaker_10
It's really good. It's all really good. All wild game from a healthy animal is delicious, I find. At least ungulates. They're all delicious. I've never found one that I didn't like. But I still think elk is the best. I like the flavor.

04:27:07 Speaker_10
Also, I like elk hunting so much, it means more to me when I'm eating a piece of elk. I think I'm just biased. I think if there's anything, I just like eating them. I like eating them.

04:27:16 Speaker_10
And I also think, it's going to sound crazy, but I think you get their spirit. I think there's something about these super potent wild animals that you kill with an arrow and then you're eating it.

04:27:28 Speaker_10
You get the spirit of that experience, the spirit of that animal. I think it empowers you in some very strange physiological way. I really do. I think they're so vitamin rich. They're such athletes. The way they run up a mountain.

04:27:43 Speaker_10
You're getting these nutrients from that animal that I don't think is like any other animal. Because they're so much stronger than all those other animals. They just run. They have 900 pounds.

04:27:53 Speaker_10
They run right up the top of a mountainside like it's nothing. You're like, this is crazy. You watch them when they get winded, and they fucking run over the top of a hill that takes you 40 minutes to crawl up. They just run up it.

04:28:06 Speaker_10
When you eat that thing, you're like, rawr. You just feel it. You feel it, and your body feels it. You get a little boost.

04:28:15 Speaker_09
Yeah, it's electric. Yeah. I feel the same way. I've given it to people that don't even hunt.

04:28:21 Speaker_10
Yeah. And they go, dude, I feel so good after I ate this. Yeah, there's something to that. It's superfood.

04:28:27 Speaker_03
It is a superfood. My neighbors, when I gave them elk or whatever it is, they're like, dude, this is amazing. Yeah, this is what it feels like to be a hunter.

04:28:41 Speaker_03
This is what it feels like to go out, kill something, process it, put in a package, and it's special. It's meaningful. It's the whole celebration, and I hate to say it like that, but it is.

04:28:56 Speaker_03
It's like this is, you said it earlier, and actually I wanted to, what'd you call it? Like an assassin for your food or something like that?

04:29:05 Speaker_10
Yeah, a supermarket assassin.

04:29:07 Speaker_03
Yeah, a supermarket assassin. This is the difference, is over here, you think this is, one, it tastes different, two, there's a definitive meaning you're associating with it.

04:29:18 Speaker_03
So there's no way that you can tell me that there's not a psychological and nutrient connection between those two, where it makes something more meaningful and beneficial specifically for you. There's just no way you can tell me that's not better.

04:29:30 Speaker_10
Right. Like a good meal with people you love, I feel like almost gives you extra nutrients. Almost like there's an extra good feeling about it. That's why people like eating together. You know, eating good food with people you care about, having fun.

04:29:43 Speaker_10
The whole experience is better for your overall being.

04:29:46 Speaker_03
It's the difference between like jacking off in a port-a-potty and eating a meal with your fucking family, right?

04:29:52 Speaker_03
There's like a huge difference like one is like the gross and a little bit shameful and disgusting Then just like it one's a jack-in-the-box cheeseburger does an elk that you cooked on your own grill.

04:30:04 Speaker_10
Yeah, exactly Yeah, it's a big difference, man Yeah, it's um, I'm glad I found it.

04:30:10 Speaker_10
I'll tell you that it's uh, it's also it's so hard to do You know, we've both had our trials and tribulations, uh elk bow hunting and it's just it's so difficult to do that the people that do it Well, you you the people that are successful, you know how hard it is to do you're like god damn you pulled it off like that.

04:30:26 Speaker_10
That's a Hunting elk with a bow in the wild is a real thing Even in the places we go are better. They have more elk and stuff. It's always hard folks.

04:30:36 Speaker_10
It's hard It's always the the problem with the public land thing is the public I have so many friends that have terrible stories about guys winding elk on purpose blowing elk out.

04:30:45 Speaker_10
They're all competing It's the same packs of elk or the same groups of Hunters are competing against the same Elk groups. It's like it's crazy

04:30:56 Speaker_10
It's like you these these herds of animals are getting like Winded on two and three sides because people like moving in trying to get them, right? You know, it's just the the ideal situation would be that

04:31:14 Speaker_10
I think the ideal situation would be, you know they're trying to do that American, what is it called? The American Serengeti Project? They're trying to rewild a whole section of the country. They're buying up land.

04:31:30 Speaker_10
and they want to bring back buffalo and bring back all these animals.

04:31:34 Speaker_10
If everybody at one time in their life could have some sort of a hunt where someone shows them how to do it, someone takes them out, they get an animal and they cook and eat that animal.

04:31:46 Speaker_10
If you're a meat eater, I think at one time in your life you should try to do that. I think that may be the solution for people to understand what it's all about. Just one time in your life, or even go with someone when they're doing it.

04:31:58 Speaker_10
One time, just know what that's like, because it ignites a little part of your DNA that you didn't even know was in there. There's like a little part of us that for tens of thousands of years, the only way we survived is hunting. Yeah.

04:32:12 Speaker_10
Thousands and thousands and thousands of years just baked into our DNA.

04:32:16 Speaker_10
And when you're in there and you're in those woods and you got that range finder and that elk is 52 yards away and you see him walking through the bushes and you know you got a window.

04:32:25 Speaker_10
And it's like a part of your DNA that just goes, yeah, this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing now. Lock in, lock in, get the animal, bring it back. There's like some crazy, like ancient primal code.

04:32:40 Speaker_10
And I tell people it's the same thing when you catch a fish. When you catch a fish, it's like, ho, ho, ho. This excitement that you catch of it, that's built into your code, because now you're going to live. You're going to live.

04:32:50 Speaker_10
You got food for your family. It's in there, a human reward system. And that's how we're supposed to get food. We're supposed to appreciate the food, because it's hard to get.

04:32:59 Speaker_08
That's what it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be, go to the supermarket, and look, there's a ground beef that's $5 a pound, and fucking, bleh.

04:33:07 Speaker_10
You never chase anything. You never go kill anything. You're just sitting there eating your fucking bowl of pasta, watching TV.

04:33:16 Speaker_03
It's so easy. It's so easy, right? It's just, it's not supposed to be that easy. It's not supposed to be that easy to live.

04:33:24 Speaker_10
If it is you're gonna get anxiety You're not designed for that you're designed for like trauma and testing you designed for struggle You're designed to overcome things and if you're not ever overcoming anything you're filled with anxiety.

04:33:36 Speaker_03
Yeah, I don't deserve this Yeah, I got what how do I deserve this? Majestic fucking animal. Yeah, just consumed.

04:33:45 Speaker_10
I didn't earn it.

04:33:46 Speaker_09
No, I just paid for it and Which is weird, doing some weird job and then you get these hitmen out there whacking cows. Supermarket hitmen. That's like the best, that is one of the best quotes I've got.

04:33:57 Speaker_03
It is.

04:33:58 Speaker_10
I mean, if there's anything that's, there's nothing grosser in this country than factory farming. It's the grossest thing ever. They have laws where you're not even allowed to film it because it's so gross. No, it's disgusting.

04:34:08 Speaker_10
Ag-gag laws, where you go to jail if you filmed horrific acts.

04:34:13 Speaker_03
Which is completely insane when you think about it. When you think about how easy it is to go get your food and people knew, especially meat eaters. I've never quite understood meat eaters that are anti-hunting. That makes no sense to me, by the way.

04:34:30 Speaker_03
Like zero sense. How can you think that this is a better way, where you're caging an animal, filling it full of hormones and supplemental nutrition and corn and all these things, and then you're putting a bolt through its head.

04:34:45 Speaker_09
But I'm not there, Evan. I'm at Starbucks protesting. I'm not there. I don't know how this McGriddle got in my hand, but now I'm putting it in my mouth.

04:34:57 Speaker_03
Just because I want to actually feel the significance of this event in the context of, like, I don't have any blood lust, I just don't want to be a hypocrite.

04:35:05 Speaker_10
Right. It's also one of those things that, like, if you haven't experienced it, you really don't understand it.

04:35:10 Speaker_10
And when you're trying to explain it to people, they're looking at it from, like, the cartoon Disney version of Hunters and movie version of Hunters where they're all cocksuckers. Dude, we should wrap this up because we got to go make camp for dinner.

04:35:21 Speaker_10
It's almost six o'clock. We've done, like, how many hours did we do?

04:35:27 Speaker_09
That was five hours. Holy shit. Like that. All right. All right. Thanks, man. Appreciate you, brother. See you, brother.

04:35:30 Speaker_07
All right. Bye.