#2221 - JD Vance AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast The Joe Rogan Experience

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Episode: #2221 - JD Vance

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 03:22:50

Episode Shownotes

JD Vance is currently the 2024 Vice Presidential Candidate of the Republican Party. He is also an author and Marine veteran who has served since 2023 as the junior United States senator from Ohio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary

In this episode of 'The Joe Rogan Experience,' JD Vance, the Republican Vice Presidential candidate for 2024, discusses his political journey, the impact of his Vice Presidential nomination, and his future political responsibilities. The conversation covers his changes in lifestyle due to increased public attention, balancing personal life with political duties, and Vance's informal yet candid conversations with Donald Trump. Additionally, Vance critiques issues such as radical ideologies, the pharmaceutical industry's influence, transgender policies, environmental concerns, media bias, and immigration policies. Vance advocates for accountability in corporations and the need for more traditional perspectives on societal matters.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (#2221 - JD Vance) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_04
The Joe Rogan Experience. How are you, sir? Good, man. How are you doing? Very nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.

00:00:16 Speaker_06
What is it like running for Vice President of the United States? How crazy is this experience?

00:00:22 Speaker_01
It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird. You know, I was just telling you this earlier, but the first time that I've been in a public spot without Secret Service in the room is right now. So I'm like looking around for these guys. How long has it been?

00:00:35 Speaker_01
It's three months, right? So he asked me the Monday of the RNC convention, which I think was June 15th. And I really didn't know that morning.

00:00:43 Speaker_01
I thought that he was probably gonna pick me But I didn't know for sure probably 60 40 basically and so I had no idea I get the call around 1 o'clock at Milwaukee time at the RNC convention I'm hanging out with my kid another one of my kids is in the other room asleep because you know our kids are young so they nap still and He makes this call and he's like hey.

00:01:03 Speaker_01
Do you want to be my vice president?

00:01:05 Speaker_06
I was like literally just like that and

00:01:07 Speaker_01
Well, actually what happened is I get a text message from a staff member on his team that says you just missed a very important phone call.

00:01:15 Speaker_01
And I don't know, you know, because there's so much inbound traffic that I think it just went straight to voicemail. So I call him back and I'm like, hey, sir, what's going on? He said, JD, you just missed a very important phone call.

00:01:25 Speaker_01
I'm going to have to pick somebody else now. You know, so I'm about to shit a brick here. And then he says, no, no, I'm just kidding, obviously. I want you to be my vice president.

00:01:35 Speaker_01
And the funny thing is, you know, my seven-year-old is in the background, and he has no idea what's going on. And I love that, right? It's one of the good things about this. He has no clue what's going on. He's like, dad, who are you talking to?

00:01:46 Speaker_01
He's talking about Pokemon cards, right? And, you know, Trump here is my son in the background. And he says, well, who's that? And I said, that's my seven-year-old son, you. And he's like, put him on the phone.

00:02:01 Speaker_01
And I'm just anxious for him to get this statement out, because in my mind it's not final until the statement is actually out.

00:02:06 Speaker_01
And he talks to my son and he reads the statement that he is going to put out on Truth Social announcing that I'm the VP nominee of the Republican Party. And he's like, what do you think about that, Ewan? And my son Ewan's like, oh, that's pretty good.

00:02:20 Speaker_01
That's pretty good. the phone back to me, he's like, I have no idea what the hell's going on.

00:02:24 Speaker_00
And it's funny. Yeah, he has no idea.

00:02:27 Speaker_01
And of course, I remember this story, because in particular, and the Madison Square Garden rally of a few days ago, was the first time that my son actually met Donald Trump.

00:02:38 Speaker_01
So we'd spoken to him on the phone, but hadn't actually met him until the rally at MSG. And my seven year old really wanted to tell him a joke. And he remembers this phone conversation.

00:02:48 Speaker_01
So he tells him this joke and Trump kind of chuckles but also is probably judging me because it was a somewhat inappropriate joke for a seven-year-old to tell but That's the only ones seven-year-olds remember

00:03:02 Speaker_01
Well, it's like – I have terrible language and it's one of my many flaws but I was raised by my very working class grandmother and she was actually very – interestingly, she was a very devout Christian but she also had a language that would make a sailor blush.

00:03:17 Speaker_01
And so I talk like that because I was raised by this woman. Those are fun ladies. Those are fun ladies, man. She was awesome. She was an amazing person, a huge personality, right? We called her a force of nature because she was such this big personality.

00:03:32 Speaker_01
But my wife's rule is, you know, basically he's only allowed to cuss when he's telling this one joke. Oh, that's hilarious. So he tells that joke all the time. Exactly. He says it 14 times a day.

00:03:44 Speaker_06
Yeah. Early on, I told my kids, you can swear in front of us, but just don't swear in front of other parents. And don't swear for no reason. Right. Well, because they judge you, right? The other parents judge you. How old are your kids?

00:03:56 Speaker_06
Well, the youngest ones are 14 and 16, and I have a 28-year-old. But when my 14-year-old was two, we were on a skiing trip. And we were about to leave. We packed up all our stuff. But her helmet, we forgot to put her helmet away.

00:04:09 Speaker_06
I go, oh, we forgot to put the helmet away. And she just looks down at the helmet, and she goes, My four-year-old he was three at the time

00:04:33 Speaker_01
We were going because you know, we live in Cincinnati, but then I'm a senator So we spent a lot of time in Washington and I was taking my four-year-old solo He was three at the time on this trip and we're on it like a Delta flight.

00:04:43 Speaker_01
We're in the back I'm kind of wondering because you know I've got bedhead and I'm thinking to myself do any of these people know that I'm a senator because I look like shit right now and my Sort of get away with it.

00:04:53 Speaker_01
I don't think that anybody knows this is who I am and we're I sitting there, and my son drops one of those Biscoff cookies in between the seat, and he looks at me and he says, Dad, well, fuck. 12 people instantly turn around and look at me.

00:05:12 Speaker_01
It's like, Oh, Senator Vance, your son has such colorful language. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm such a terrible father. And these people are all judging me. But it's, you know, it'd be, you're right. It's so cute. It's adorable. Yeah.

00:05:24 Speaker_01
It's, it's so funny, but yeah, I got to do a little bit better about that because they're going to start judging me.

00:05:28 Speaker_06
People need to relax. Every now and then it's good for you. I think it's good for a little steam.

00:05:36 Speaker_01
I agree.

00:05:37 Speaker_06
It's good Did was there any part of you that was like do I really want this job?

00:05:42 Speaker_06
Because it comes with so much it comes with not having the Secret Service in the room It comes with this enormous change of your life this insane responsibility You everybody's watched presidents, especially age radically.

00:05:56 Speaker_06
Oh, yeah dramatically Yeah, and everyone but Trump

00:06:00 Speaker_01
It's kind of amazing, yeah.

00:06:01 Speaker_06
The dude just didn't age. It's so strange. It's like it barely affected him. Everybody else is like, they're getting radiation sickness. And he gets out of there and looks exactly the same. I can't wait to do it again. Let's go, we're going to win big.

00:06:17 Speaker_01
It really is amazing.

00:06:18 Speaker_01
I mean, one of the first times that I sort of spent, like, a large amount of time with Trump was in 2021, and I was thinking about running for the Senate, so I was down in Mar-a-Lago talking to him, and my initial reaction on seeing him was... This episode of The Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty.

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00:10:46 Speaker_01
Oh my God, you look really good. You actually look healthier now than you did six years ago. Normally presidents age very, very badly. Yeah, I mean, look, I definitely thought, OK, obviously this is a big thing, right?

00:11:00 Speaker_01
I talked about it with my wife a lot because she's like – she was a working corporate litigator. She had a very big career. She's much smarter than I am. And we definitely – it was a marital conversation.

00:11:09 Speaker_01
It's always a tough one because even though, yeah, I'm a senator, we're still pretty anonymous, right? Like we can go on vacation or we were until this happened. We'd go on vacation.

00:11:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, you'd have people stop and ask to take a photo or say something nice. But most people, if you went somewhere, didn't know who you were. Right now, it's literally impossible for us to go anywhere.

00:11:30 Speaker_06
What's that shift feel like? Like you're 40 years old, right? So yeah, I mean like right like this just off a cliff complete different life Yeah, that's right.

00:11:39 Speaker_01
That's right. I mean, it's it's it's been I mean look in some ways It's really nice because people come up and say really nice things to you. They tell you they're they're they're praying for your kids They're praying for your family.

00:11:49 Speaker_01
It depends on where you go though, doesn't it? Like if you go through Brooklyn?

00:11:56 Speaker_01
It's interesting when we were in New York for the MSG rally a few people saw me and flashed the Universal New York sign for we're number one right so But it's it's definitely weird to just not be anonymous at all anymore, right and that's taken some getting used to I think part of it is also

00:12:16 Speaker_01
Let me just give you an example. So Sunday morning, we want to go for a walk. This is the event in Madison Square Garden. We had the morning where I didn't really have anything going on. I had a couple of phone calls.

00:12:24 Speaker_01
So we want to go for a walk with the kids in Central Park. And normally, you would walk out of your hotel and walk into Central Park and hang out with your family. Now what it requires, we have to notify Secret Service.

00:12:36 Speaker_01
And so then they have to scope out an area where they can make sure that it's going to be properly safe. And so instead of walking out our hotel room and taking a walk in Central Park, we hop in a car and show up.

00:12:45 Speaker_01
in some random part of Central Park that's 20 blocks away. And then, of course, as soon as we get out, everybody's like, well, who the hell is this? Because there are 14-car motorcade there.

00:12:54 Speaker_01
So the lack of anonymity is definitely an annoyance that comes along with it. But I mean, I'm the kind of person where you just take the good with the bad. There are a lot of benefits to it. There are some downsides to it. It's what I ask for.

00:13:06 Speaker_01
I try not to think too much about it or complain too much about it. Just try to accept it. I think obviously if we win which you know six days from now I think we are gonna win I think we'll have to sort of get into more of a routine with it.

00:13:17 Speaker_06
My attitude thus far has been well It's only for a few months so you can do anything for a few months is the adjustment Is it like is it difficult was it pretty easy to just accept it like this is how life is now and

00:13:31 Speaker_01
Well, it's, you just, you have to accept it, but it's not easy, right? I mean, in particular for our kids, right? Like, okay, I really like to drive.

00:13:38 Speaker_01
And 99% of the time, if we're in the car as a family, I'm driving, my wife's in the passenger seat, just because I like to drive.

00:13:47 Speaker_01
And I think for our kids, getting used to, oh, we're not going into our car, we're going into this black SUV, and daddy's not driving. Right, there's some other person there that don't know. Right. Yeah.

00:13:57 Speaker_01
Or, you know, like, one of the first things that happened, we're back at our house in Cincinnati the weekend after the RNC convention, and we're sitting there watching, like, some stupid show, Emily in Paris, on Netflix or something, which, sorry, I don't mean to call it a stupid show.

00:14:10 Speaker_01
I actually think Emily in Paris is a masterpiece, but set that to the side. Bracket that one for now.

00:14:16 Speaker_01
But we're watching some show on Netflix, and, you know, you just, you see one guy walk past your window, and then you see another guy walk past your window, and it's just a Secret Service agent patrolling. Just little things like that.

00:14:27 Speaker_01
You know, it just – you recognize that your zone of privacy is very narrow and that takes some adjusting and getting used to. And, you know, there are all of these small little adjustments.

00:14:39 Speaker_01
But by and large, honestly, like I love our Secret Service detail. Our kids are really into them. They sort of see them as their police protectors.

00:14:46 Speaker_01
Our seven-year-old, it's funny, you know, he's in second grade, and one of his buddies, their parents came to us and said, do you know that the kids are playing this game in school called Boss Man?

00:15:00 Speaker_01
Where basically one second grader will walk down the hallway or down the playground flanked by two separate second graders.

00:15:07 Speaker_06
Like, they're playing Secret Service now?

00:15:09 Speaker_01
Like, they're playing Secret Service now in their school. Oh, how bizarre. So, like, on the one hand, that's really bizarre, and I hope that it doesn't permanently screw up the psychological development of my kid.

00:15:18 Speaker_01
On the other hand, it's kind of funny, and you just go with the flow, and you try to work with it.

00:15:23 Speaker_06
Yeah. I guess they're just making fun with it. Yeah. Did you have presidential aspirations before all this? Is this something that you had considered about the future? How did you approach this?

00:15:38 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean, it's one of these things when you're elected to the Senate and, you know, I'm a pretty young guy. I think I'm the second youngest United States senator right now. You certainly think like, is this something I might do in the future?

00:15:49 Speaker_01
What does this look like? What would you need to do in terms of getting your family in the right mental space and just making it happen? But it's all very abstract, right?

00:15:57 Speaker_01
It's not all that different from, you know, 10 years ago thinking about starting a business that I never started, right? It's just things you think about, but you never really think that hard about, right? And that was kind of my attitude towards it.

00:16:10 Speaker_01
I started to realize that Trump was thinking pretty seriously about making me his VP nominee probably earlier this year, because he would ask me a lot about who I thought the VP nominee should be. Oh, boy. Trick questions. Yeah, exactly.

00:16:27 Speaker_01
And I'd give him names of people that I thought would be pretty good at it. And a lot of the names that I gave him, he would criticize. And I almost felt like he was inviting me to throw myself out there. But I mean, it's funny.

00:16:41 Speaker_01
The morning that he was shot in Butler, PA, was the first time that he and I ever talked about it. So, that was a Saturday, just thinking about, I guess it was probably June 13th, because I think the convention started June 15th.

00:16:54 Speaker_01
I go down to Mar-a-Lago that morning, Saturday morning, and I'm talking to him for the first time, because the media had always asked me, I was like one of the rumored shortlist candidates, I kept on getting these questions from reporters, have you ever been, have you ever had this conversation with Trump?

00:17:06 Speaker_01
And the honest answer was no. Well, Saturday morning that changed, because I go down there and he's like, what do you think? Why should I choose you? Why should I not choose these other guys? We just had a conversation. Who else was in the running?

00:17:18 Speaker_01
You know, I don't really know, actually. Don't lie. I really don't know.

00:17:20 Speaker_04
Come on, man.

00:17:21 Speaker_01
Look, I think that there were a couple of senators that were being considered, a couple of governors, a couple of former cabinet secretaries.

00:17:29 Speaker_01
But you don't really know, because when Donald Trump sat me down, I mean, he talked about 10 different people that he was thinking about naming. And this was two days before he made this election.

00:17:36 Speaker_06
So he's playing like a little, like, let's see how JD thinks game.

00:17:40 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think so. And he told me that he was talking to the gardener at Mar-a-Lago about who the vice presidential nominee should be. And that's one of, I think, Trump's sort of political geniuses is he talks to everybody about everything.

00:17:54 Speaker_01
And I was like, well, what did the gardener at Mar-a-Lago have to say about this conversation? Because this really directly impacts my life. And he basically said, well, I think I'm probably going to pick you.

00:18:07 Speaker_01
But I don't know, and I'm not ready to make a decision. And then he looks at one of his staff members who's in the room, he's like, actually, wouldn't it really set the world ablaze if we just made the decision today?

00:18:17 Speaker_01
And so why don't you come up with me and we'll just do the announcement in Butler, Pennsylvania.

00:18:22 Speaker_01
Well, and I said and of course not knowing at the time what was gonna happen I was like, absolutely Let's get this over with because I'm sick of not knowing let's just get this thing over with and then he's like, ah, no I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do it up there.

00:18:33 Speaker_01
We need to prepare for it better So look, I'm not saying it's gonna be you but I'm thinking very seriously about it. Have fun We'll see after Butler PA and then of course I go back to home to Ohio. Oh boy. He gets shot and

00:18:44 Speaker_01
You know, the initial reaction is I actually thought they had killed him because when you first see the video, he grabs his ear and then he goes down. And I'm like, oh, my God, they just killed him. And I was so I mean, I was so pissed.

00:18:58 Speaker_01
But then I go into, like, fight or flight mode with my kids. I'm like, you know, all right, kids, you know, we write up. We were at a mini-golf place in Cincinnati, Ohio.

00:19:06 Speaker_01
Grab my kids up, throw them in the car, go home and load all my guns, and basically stand like a sentry at our front door. And that was sort of my reaction to it. I really didn't know it was going to happen until Monday morning.

00:19:20 Speaker_01
I didn't know who else was being selected. I think it was all the names that people sort of see out there, right? All good guys, like nobody I have any personal animosity towards. But obviously, you know, here we are.

00:19:32 Speaker_06
How much did you study the story of the assassin, the attempted assassin? How much have you paid attention to it?

00:19:40 Speaker_01
You know what Crooks or Cooks or whatever the guy's name is in Pennsylvania? I mean, I've read a fair amount about it and it's pretty bizarre. It's very bizarre. It's bizarre they haven't been able to get into his phone.

00:19:50 Speaker_06
Well, they got into his phone.

00:19:53 Speaker_01
Didn't they?

00:19:53 Speaker_06
Have they? I thought they've... I thought they said they did.

00:19:56 Speaker_01
Maybe you know better than me. Well, maybe they got into his phone but they couldn't access his encrypted messages or something. I thought there was some deal where they haven't really gotten his communication yet.

00:20:05 Speaker_01
Yeah, maybe I haven't read it as closely as you have so don't take that as gospel truth Probably you have access to more information, but maybe you can't know There's nothing about this that I have access and information.

00:20:17 Speaker_06
I can't talk about well There was a lot of weird stuff to it one of them is that his where he lived was professionally scrubbed So they got there, there was no silverware. There's no silverware. The place is scrubbed. Yeah, there's nothing.

00:20:30 Speaker_06
There's no DNA, no hard drives, no nothing.

00:20:34 Speaker_01
And how do you get that close? I mean, do you shoot guns? Yeah. Okay, so I'm a pretty good shot. I served in the Marine Corps for four years. An AR-15 from 140 yards away, Chip shot. Even without a scope. He didn't have a scope, right?

00:20:50 Speaker_01
I don't believe he had a scope. But even without a scope. Without a scope. I've shot an M16 many times, and an AR-15 without a scope. There is no... It is shocking that he's alive. Yeah. It really is.

00:21:02 Speaker_01
I mean, I'm a person of faith, but I think it's a genuine miracle that that guy didn't kill him. But how did he get so close? There's a lot of really big questions that we should be asking.

00:21:13 Speaker_06
Well, he was walking around the area with a rangefinder.

00:21:16 Speaker_01
Before the event and people were yelling and saying he's on the roof. Yeah on the roof.

00:21:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, you know there was that crazy I think it was a BBC reporter somebody with an English accent who did the report on the ground with the guy You know, he's he's like got a MAGA hat on and a bud light.

00:21:33 Speaker_01
He's probably not a bud light up He's got some beer and he's talking to this guy who saw crooks get on the roof and And he's yelling at him. It's an amazing clip.

00:21:43 Speaker_01
He's yelling at him like, hey, he's yelling at police officers saying, hey, this guy's on the roof. Go and get him. And nobody responded to it. And it's the whole thing is very fishy to me.

00:21:54 Speaker_01
And I hope that we win and then get to the bottom of it because I think somebody clearly screwed up.

00:21:58 Speaker_06
Not it doesn't seem like just screwed up. Like the excuse that the lady from the Secret Service had that they couldn't put snipers on the roof because the roof was sloped. Like all of it is bananas.

00:22:11 Speaker_01
That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous.

00:22:14 Speaker_06
And the miracle is Trump turns his head at the last second. That's right. Very last second. He turns his head to look at the chart and the bullet just grazes his ear. That's right. He's got people keep there's just stupid conspiracy out there.

00:22:26 Speaker_06
He's got a mark on his ear. I saw it. He has a mark on his ear and people like wires and they're holding his ear because it's just the edge of the skin got it. That's all it was.

00:22:37 Speaker_01
That's right.

00:22:37 Speaker_06
It's the luckiest of luckiest shots ever for him. Unfortunately, not for the people that are behind him. It's a couple of people got shot and for anybody who thinks that that was Staged you don't understand shooting.

00:22:50 Speaker_06
There's no way you can graze someone's ear from 120 You can hit the center mass.

00:22:56 Speaker_01
It's crazy.

00:22:57 Speaker_06
You're not gonna be able to graze their ear. You can kill them easily accidentally if you were faking something like well

00:23:02 Speaker_01
Well, we've all seen the graphics, right, of him turning his head, and if he hadn't turned his head, that it would have went right through his brain.

00:23:08 Speaker_06
And there was another one that went to the left side of him, right?

00:23:11 Speaker_01
That barely missed him.

00:23:12 Speaker_06
Yeah, that barely missed him. And then instantly that guy's dead, and then they take a hold of his body. He's cremated 10 days later. There's no press conference. There's no toxicology report. No one talks about it on the news.

00:23:28 Speaker_01
And when there's a school shooter, we usually have the person's manifesto out there a day or two later. We know nothing about the motive here, which I think is the craziest thing.

00:23:38 Speaker_01
You know, obviously he's motivated because he hates Donald Trump, but you don't know anything about the secondary motive. Man, it is weird. The only time we don't get a manifesto is when they're trans.

00:23:48 Speaker_06
When they're trans, they hide those manifestos.

00:23:50 Speaker_01
That's true. The Nashville Shooter, man, that was crazy.

00:23:53 Speaker_05
Have you ever read any of it?

00:23:54 Speaker_01
I've read some of it. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild.

00:23:57 Speaker_06
And yeah, I mean, that guy- And they decide that's bad for the cause.

00:24:00 Speaker_01
That's right. So they decided to cover it up. And they decided to suppress it.

00:24:02 Speaker_01
But no, the Nashville Shooter, I mean, just while we're on the topic, went in and murdered a bunch of children at a Christian school because he or she, like whatever, was motivated by some very radical trans ideology. Yes.

00:24:16 Speaker_01
And that is something we should talk more about as a country.

00:24:20 Speaker_06
One hundred percent. And they didn't want, if there's any other ideology that led someone to mass murder, you would examine that ideology very carefully. It was some sort of radical religion.

00:24:30 Speaker_06
People would be like very concerned about that radical religion.

00:24:32 Speaker_00
That's right.

00:24:33 Speaker_06
And it is. It's a radical religion of woke. It's this weird idea that you are so virtuous and so correct, you're allowed to commit violence against these other people because they're the oppressors, even though they're children.

00:24:44 Speaker_01
Well, you know, these signs that are in super woke neighborhoods, I'm sure there's plenty of them in Austin, like in this house, we believe. Science is real. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about?

00:24:53 Speaker_01
Okay, so I don't know your religious background, but like I'm a convert to Catholicism It's like was raised Christian became an atheist came back to Christianity got baptized Catholic like five or six years ago and

00:25:06 Speaker_01
And what is so interesting about this, in this house we believe, is it's so similar to the creed that you declare every day at a Catholic mass, right?

00:25:17 Speaker_01
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and there's almost a similar cadence between the Christian creed and what these guys are doing with this hyper woke stuff. And then there's the rallies.

00:25:32 Speaker_01
And then there's, of course, the various rituals. And it absolutely is a religious faith. There was this really interesting post that was, um, you know, I forget exactly who wrote it, but the title was gay rights as was it?

00:25:50 Speaker_01
It was like gay rights as religious rights, but the second rights was R-I-T-E-S.

00:25:59 Speaker_01
And it was a guy who was like a pro gay rights guy, but sort of made the observation that when you get into the really radical trans stuff, you actually start to notice the similarities between a practiced religious faith

00:26:12 Speaker_01
and what these guys are doing. And it's very interesting. I actually met earlier with a friend who lives in Austin, who's kind of a gay Reagan Democrat. And he's a very interesting guy. He's a fascinating guy.

00:26:25 Speaker_01
He's one of the smartest political philosophers, I think. How do you be a gay Reagan Democrat? You know, I don't know. It's just kind of... What's a Reagan Democrat?

00:26:33 Speaker_01
Well, I mean, he's basically like now what you'd call a Trump Republican, but he's a political philosopher and he writes about economics, right? That's sort of how I got connected to him. I had no idea he was gay when I first met him.

00:26:44 Speaker_01
But, you know, I'll never forget, he sent me something like six or so years ago.

00:26:50 Speaker_01
And it was Elizabeth Warren when she was running for president and she was like we stand for all non-binary two-spirit and all of the all of the like the LGBTI plus right she was talking about all the plus and she was kind of flying it and he sent me this this text message with this Elizabeth Warren tweet and he's like I don't know what the hell two-spirit is we just wanted to be left the hell alone.

00:27:14 Speaker_01
And I think that, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if me and Trump won just the normal gay guy vote. Because, again, they just wanted to be left the hell alone.

00:27:24 Speaker_01
And now you have all this crazy stuff on top of it that they're like, we didn't want to give pharmaceutical products to nine-year-olds who are transitioning their genders. We just wanted to be left the hell alone.

00:27:34 Speaker_06
Well, a lot of gay guys feel like the whole movement is homophobic, which is ironic because they think that there's people think there's something wrong with being gay. So what you really are is a girl. Yes.

00:27:45 Speaker_06
And they think that a lot of this is being given. These thoughts are being given to gay kids. These kids will just grow up to be gay men. And instead, you're getting them to convert their gender.

00:27:55 Speaker_01
It's pharmaceutical conversion therapy. Right.

00:27:57 Speaker_06
And it's profitable, which is terrifying. It's terrifying once. corporations once pharmaceutical corporations have They have a pattern and a history of profiting off of things.

00:28:09 Speaker_06
They want to keep profiting off of it They don't want to just stop and so right now this has become a profitable venture That's scaled if you could look back from like 2007 to 2024.

00:28:18 Speaker_06
There's way more of these air quotes gender-affirming care centers Yes, and they're profitable

00:28:24 Speaker_01
Well, and this used to be something that the old left, right, the criticism that was made of American healthcare, which I always thought made some sense as a conservative guy, is that when you have the profit motive, influencing government policy around healthcare, then yeah, okay, sometimes the profit motive can be a good thing.

00:28:41 Speaker_01
Like we're going to develop lifesaving cancer drugs. We want that to happen, right? And I'm fine with people making a big profit for that.

00:28:47 Speaker_01
But then sometimes they'll try to manipulate government policy to make their own drugs more profitable, not because it's good for health, but because these people just naturally, like most people, want to make some money.

00:28:58 Speaker_01
And that conversation has totally disappeared. Like, I got into the big argument. You know, this person you can read about the New York Times later disavowed our friendship and leaked our text messages to the New York Times.

00:29:13 Speaker_01
But the breaking point was I came out against this gender transition for minors when I was running for the Senate a few years ago. And she's a transgender individual. And she kind of flipped out on me.

00:29:24 Speaker_01
And I the thing that I never understood because she's like very much an old school leftist is Are you not at all a little bit worried about how rich people are getting by prescribing experimental therapeutics to 9, 10, 12-year-old kids?

00:29:39 Speaker_01
Like, this used to be something that the American left would have gone crazy about. And now, the only people who are raising concerns about it are conservative Republicans.

00:29:49 Speaker_01
But we should be concerned when – because it's not just like the lobbying and the influence. I mean, there's something called the Diagnostic Statistical Manual. It's sort of the manual of psychiatric disorders.

00:30:01 Speaker_01
And I think that we're on the DSM-5, as it's called, which is the fifth edition of this manual.

00:30:07 Speaker_01
You have drug companies that are making money, that are lobbying to have, you know, child dysphoria put into our psychiatric manuals, because then psychiatrists will treat that condition, and then those pharmaceutical companies will get rich from it.

00:30:24 Speaker_01
Somebody should be interrogating whether the political incentives of our country actually align with the financial incentives of the pharmaceutical industry, because oftentimes the answer is going to be no, but nobody's asking that question.

00:30:37 Speaker_06
Well, we've always known that children are very easily influenced and that children shouldn't be allowed to make life-changing decisions when they're very young. That's why they can't get tattooed.

00:30:46 Speaker_05
Absolutely. We've always known that.

00:30:48 Speaker_06
And then all of a sudden, because of gender, that's abandoned. That's right. We've completely changed the way we think that children, oh, they just know.

00:30:56 Speaker_06
I've had mind-numbing conversations with people who believe that, and it all falls apart if you just keep asking questions. Just ask him to define how could you know this? What about the development of the frontal lobe? What about this?

00:31:11 Speaker_06
Understanding that children have never been able to make life-changing decisions, correct? You don't allow them to drink alcohol. You don't allow them to get tattooed. They can't turn their military when they're 10.

00:31:20 Speaker_06
There's a lot of shit you can't do when you're a little kid. Why are you letting them just change their gender? What does this even mean?

00:31:26 Speaker_06
And then the New York Times thing that comes out where it shows that they had a whole study about these puberty blockers that showed that they do not help the children's mental health, and that they probably have a lot of horrific side effects.

00:31:40 Speaker_06
And so they decided not to release the study.

00:31:41 Speaker_01
And they decided not to publish that, right? Which is crazy. Which shows you the corruption of science is that we're actually not publishing studies that suggest that gender transition craziness has reached the boiling point.

00:31:53 Speaker_01
I mean, you know, you have kids. I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old. Every single day, my four-year-old or two-year-old will come to me and say something that is batshit insane because they're four and two. Yeah.

00:32:05 Speaker_01
Like, my four-year-old will come and say, Daddy, I'm a dinosaur. I'm going to take them to the dinosaur transition clinic and put scales on them.

00:32:13 Speaker_06
The other thing is, if you were encouraging them, and some parents, I'm just going to say it, even though it sounds gross, they want their kid to be a part of the LGBTQ thing because it looks like a flag of virtue that they can post in their front lawn.

00:32:29 Speaker_06
Oh, look, we have a queer child. Oh, you're amazing. There's a weird thing about it with some of these nutty parents.

00:32:36 Speaker_06
Where you could imagine them incur there it there has to be some reason why this enormous percentage of Hollywood kids are trans Like how many celebrities have trans kids? It's new. It's not a thing that was going on just a few. It was rare in the past

00:32:52 Speaker_01
It becomes a social signifier for a lot of parents, and we have to be honest about that fact. And if you look at where the gender craziness is the most common, it's most common among upper middle class to lower middle class white progressives.

00:33:10 Speaker_01
Now, you could believe, okay, that there's just like something genetic going on in the mind of a wealthy white progressive, or you could believe that this is a cultural trend that we should be questioning a lot more than we are right now.

00:33:23 Speaker_01
And unfortunately, I mean, here's one thing that I really worry about is, okay, Think about the incentives. People are very good at rationalizing things.

00:33:33 Speaker_01
If you are a middle class or upper middle class white parent, and the only thing that you care about is whether your child goes into Harvard or Yale, obviously, that pathway has become a lot harder for a lot of upper middle class kids.

00:33:51 Speaker_01
But the one way that those people can participate in the DEI bureaucracy in this country is to be Trance.

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00:35:33 Speaker_01
And is there a dynamic that's going on where if you become trans, that is the way to reject your white privilege, right? That's the social signifier. The only one that's available in the hyper woke mindset is if you become gender non-binary.

00:35:52 Speaker_06
Non-binary is the best one. Because you don't even have to do anything You just say I'm not I could say I'm non-binary and like you don't have to do anything But all of a sudden you're part of the group.

00:36:00 Speaker_01
Yeah. Well, that's right And again, I think it's important to sort of you know, most people are not saying oh I'm white privileged. How do I become part of the privilege set and But it's these weird ways in which these ideas creep into the mainstream.

00:36:16 Speaker_01
And people are very good at rationalizing these things. And so what I think 20, 30 years ago, even among very well-to-do white progressives, like an 11-year-old boy says, I think that I'm a girl.

00:36:28 Speaker_01
Most of the time, we would have said, oh, that's ridiculous and crazy and ha, ha, ha, and come back to me in a couple of days. Now I think there is this massive incentive to try to say, oh, my god.

00:36:41 Speaker_01
Does that mean that my kid is trans and I also think it's to your point very warping on the minds of young kids Because what they're now doing is taking normal adolescent curiosity and normal adolescent discomfort like I don't know a single person who went from the ages of 10 to 15 who didn't say oh Like sometimes I had some you know, weird ideas or I dressed weird for a couple of years or something, right?

00:37:06 Speaker_01
It's a confusing phase for most Americans, we take that normal adolescent confusion and then we try to medicalize it and nobody's saying, oh, when we do medicalize it, by the way, a lot of pharmaceutical companies get very rich off of it.

00:37:19 Speaker_06
not only very rich, but then the child is sterilized.

00:37:22 Speaker_01
Yes.

00:37:22 Speaker_06
I mean, this is for a lot of these kids, they'll never be able to have children ever again.

00:37:26 Speaker_06
If they change their mind, if they one day decide, oh, I was just going through a confusing time in my life, but now I've ruined my voice with hormones, my ovaries are destroyed. You know, I had my testicles removed, like the whole thing is crazy.

00:37:41 Speaker_01
So this is where I had the real breaking point with a friend that I mentioned earlier is she made this argument that puberty blockers are fully reversible. That's crazy. And I'd actually never heard that. I mean, this is a few years ago.

00:37:53 Speaker_01
I'd never heard that argument before. And so I actually went and looked at it and looked at the data on this.

00:37:57 Speaker_01
The idea that if you give puberty delaying, puberty blockers, whatever you're gonna call them, to kids who are 11, 12, 13, that that's fully reversible, that is completely and preposterously insane.

00:38:10 Speaker_01
Now, even the most radical advocates of trans healthcare do not say that, right? Because look, I mean, you have sexual dysfunction, you have, to your point, hair in weird places that won't go away, you have voice changes that won't go away,

00:38:25 Speaker_01
We're experimenting on tens of thousands of American children. We're making them miserable. It's not having any long-term health benefit. It's making a lot of pharmaceutical companies rich.

00:38:36 Speaker_01
And it's conservative Republicans are the only ones saying, ah, maybe this is a little crazy. Maybe we should stop.

00:38:41 Speaker_06
Well, it just shows you how a lot of this, you know, if you can call it a mind virus or whatever it is, it does make people behave religiously.

00:38:51 Speaker_06
So it's like they're ignoring all of these signs because it doesn't line up with this ideology that they subscribe to. Like, you have to support trans kids. Like, okay, what are you even saying? How is this a new thing? So pervasive.

00:39:07 Speaker_06
How is it everywhere? And how are you letting them compete with girls in school? This is that one drives me bananas. When you have biological males, all they have to do is they don't even have requirements in some schools.

00:39:21 Speaker_06
You don't have to be taking hormones. You could just identify and you can compete as a girl.

00:39:26 Speaker_01
And of course, that causes injury to the young girls. Of course.

00:39:30 Speaker_01
And again, this gives me faith in the wisdom of the American people, because if you see how radically the Democrats leaned into this stuff four years ago, and how much Kamala Harris is running away from it today, most Americans

00:39:45 Speaker_01
They don't really care who you sleep with. They're pretty open-minded about most lifestyle choices. But when you talk about having a biological male compete with their teenage girl in competitive sports, Americans are saying, no, no, no, no.

00:39:58 Speaker_01
This is crazy. You're causing injury to my kids. We have to stop this.

00:40:02 Speaker_06
Not only that it like ruins chances of getting scholarships if you were the number one player And then all of a sudden some guy comes along wears lipstick now He's the number one girl on the team like what are you talking about?

00:40:15 Speaker_07
Yeah?

00:40:16 Speaker_06
Yeah, there was a recent pool tournament in England It's a woman's pool tournament and in the semifinals two guys are playing each other

00:40:22 Speaker_01
Yeah. Well, it looks when you see them in the actual, you know, swimming pool competing, it looks like the biological males are running at 1.5 X speed and everybody else is running at normal speed, right? This is just clearly different.

00:40:37 Speaker_01
And to your point about it destroys opportunities for scholarships. I mean, go back to the original reason why we wanted girls sports, why we have title nine in the United States of America to begin with.

00:40:46 Speaker_01
Like we recognize that competitive sports, like what does it teach? It teaches you how to participate on a team. It teaches you to recognize your own weaknesses and the strengths of your teammates and vice versa.

00:40:57 Speaker_01
I'm the father of a two-year-old daughter. I want my daughter to learn these important life skills.

00:41:04 Speaker_01
I don't want her going into athletic competitions where I'm terrified she's going to get bludgeoned to death because we're allowing a six-foot-one male to compete with her in sports where you should not have biological males competing with biological females.

00:41:17 Speaker_06
Not only that but they get to change with them in the locker rooms. That's where it gets like there was one in Canada where a 50 year old man Identified as a teenage girl.

00:41:28 Speaker_06
He was a professor, you know, but this guy I haven't heard about this He was changing he was in a swim meet with teenage girls. Yeah, and he's changing in the same locker room as them and then I It's crazy.

00:41:40 Speaker_06
The problem with that is people there's there's a psychological condition called autogynephilia and autogynephilia is where men are sexually aroused by the idea of dressing and behaving like a woman but they're heterosexual.

00:41:54 Speaker_06
Now all of a sudden these people with this known psychiatric disorder are allowed to just identify as a woman and you're a bigot if you don't let them change in the

00:42:03 Speaker_01
Yeah, and you're expected to empower them at the expense of young women who are very often much more vulnerable for obvious reasons than young men. It reminds me of, so the very first congressional delegation trip that I ever took was to Paris.

00:42:17 Speaker_01
I think it was to Paris. And it's part of the Paris Air Show and Ohio has all these, you know, aviation interests. Anyway, long story short, I was talking to a very conservative woman at the Paris Air Show who was from Mississippi.

00:42:30 Speaker_01
And she was probably 65, 70. And it was really interesting because I was just like, you know, how do you find the city? She had never been to Paris before. And I'm just, you know, interested in people.

00:42:39 Speaker_01
So I was asking her and she said, you know, what's really interesting is I just feel like Paris, I would think of as very liberal, but I actually think Paris is more conservative than some of the big cities in the United States.

00:42:51 Speaker_01
And I said, oh, tell me more about this. And this woman doesn't know me very well, and she's clearly kind of embarrassed to tell me. But she walks through, she says, well,

00:42:59 Speaker_01
I just don't see any people, like when you're in Paris, the girls are girls and the boys are boys. And that's true in Paris, and that's not necessarily true in some of our big cities.

00:43:10 Speaker_01
And then she says, she says, she says, Senator Vance, I'm embarrassed to tell you this, but when I was in New York City recently, I saw a grown man who was walking around in a mini skirt.

00:43:22 Speaker_01
And then she gets very quiet and she said, Senator Vance, I could see his balls. He probably wanted you to see his balls. And you realize, oh my god, this is not empowerment. This is not respecting lifestyle choices.

00:43:37 Speaker_01
We're letting a grown man walk around in a miniskirt in broad daylight? What are you talking about?

00:43:41 Speaker_06
I feel like you should be allowed to wear a miniskirt. If a girl can wear a miniskirt, you can wear a miniskirt. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is if I have to see your balls.

00:43:49 Speaker_01
To flash people in broad daylight in New York City? You're a pervert. You're a pervert. You're just a pervert. If that's what you're doing, you're a pervert. And I want all of us to say, whatever your political persuasion, just say, no, that's weird.

00:44:00 Speaker_01
You're not allowed to walk down the street and flash children in the middle of the world's or the America's biggest city. And it reminds me, you know, Emmanuel Macron, who's the leader of France, made this observation about

00:44:12 Speaker_01
You know, somebody asked him, why hasn't all the transgender stuff made its way into France? And Emmanuel Macron says, well, in France, we have two genders, and that's plenty.

00:44:21 Speaker_01
I kind of wish that was the attitude that we had in the United States of America.

00:44:28 Speaker_06
Well, have you ever heard Mark Andreessen break down why Woke is like a cult? He's a brilliant guy.

00:44:36 Speaker_01
He's a very good friend, yeah. I've heard this, yeah.

00:44:38 Speaker_06
It's brilliant. And he talks about how you can be excommunicated from the cult if you don't follow the doctrine, you have to follow religiously to the letter.

00:44:46 Speaker_06
That's where all this stuff, like if you're allowing guys to just have their balls hanging out, walking down the street because it's empowering, and because you're being inclusive. No, you're empowering perverts.

00:44:57 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's a cult and it's a religion, but with one big difference. And I think this is, you know, actually, this observation is probably one of the things that led me back to my own faith.

00:45:05 Speaker_01
But I sort of just a fundamental background belief I have about humanity is, you know, we're the hardware, right? We're biological organisms, we're the hardware. And the software is the ideas that we have in our head.

00:45:17 Speaker_01
And certain software promotes human flourishing and certain software destroys human flourishing. And I think that the good kind of ideas tend to promote human flourishing. What is – most world religions

00:45:31 Speaker_01
have but the woke stuff doesn't have is forgiveness and redemption.

00:45:37 Speaker_00
Right?

00:45:37 Speaker_01
It has the excommunication part, but it doesn't have the forgiveness and redemption part.

00:45:41 Speaker_01
Most people recognize that even if you violate some fundamental moral value that I have, if you apologize and try to be a good person, we're going to be forgiving. We want people to be able to live together.

00:45:55 Speaker_01
there is this weird thing with the woke stuff where when and you see this and I feel bad when like comedians in particular do it I'm sure you've seen this but when anybody does this where they'll go and say well I'm really sorry they'll sort of prostrate themselves when they make an offensive joke or they do something they're not supposed to do and they expect redemption but no no they don't get forgiveness what they get is you need to do even more

00:46:21 Speaker_01
of what you've already done. It becomes this self-defeating, self-flagellating cycle. And I think that's what's most destructive about this, is you can't be friends with people if you think they're only ever wrong. They can only ever wrong you.

00:46:38 Speaker_01
And if they apologize, your response is not to say, oh, OK, I accept your apology. If your response is to say, no, I want you to apologize even more and even harder, that destroys human civilization.

00:46:49 Speaker_06
It's an interesting observation, right? Because it really does behave like a religion, but it's a religion without a good doctrine.

00:46:58 Speaker_06
It's a religion that hasn't been thought out by wise people, where they haven't come up with these different—like the Ten Commandments, or different pathways to— to forgiveness. There's nothing.

00:47:12 Speaker_06
So it's this thing that behaves like a religion, but it's not really well thought out, and it's very illogical, and it also combines pharmaceutical drug companies, and there's a lot of other weird shit that's attached to this religion that you kind of need.

00:47:27 Speaker_06
If you're gonna do this whole woke thing and go guns a blazing, you're gonna have to get drugs involved. They're gonna have to do hormone blockers. It doesn't just happen on its own.

00:47:38 Speaker_06
And that somehow or another is natural to them like this is how you be your your true self like Your true self is you you add hormones that aren't supposed to be in your body That's your true self like how you know, right and it's irreversible.

00:47:52 Speaker_01
Are we fucking sure this is yeah and oh by the way instead of your true self being maybe I should be skeptical of some of the crap that I'm putting into my body. I should lean into the idea that I should put more foreign things into the human body.

00:48:09 Speaker_01
That's what to me is so fascinating about it is the true self. Like, you know, I think all of us, that's sort of part of the human journey for truth. We're all asking who is, you know, who are we? What is our true self?

00:48:20 Speaker_01
And maybe we should be asking ourself, this is sort of more of a Bobby Kennedy point, but Why are we putting all this weird crap into our food, into our water?

00:48:30 Speaker_01
Maybe we should be a little bit more skeptical, like my body is a temple, rather than I'm going to welcome even more pharmaceutical intervention into the human body.

00:48:39 Speaker_01
It's very interesting how some religions view the body as a temple and some religions almost invite the pollution. I think the woke thing is inviting the pollution.

00:48:48 Speaker_06
Well, they're also inviting, so one of the weirdest things is if you are on the wrong side of their ideology, like if you're aligned with Trump, like RFK Jr.

00:48:59 Speaker_06
is, now all of a sudden I've seen people on the left that are trying to dismiss a lot of the things that he says about additives in food, about atrazine, fluoride, all these different things, because now they're connecting not having toxins in your food with a right

00:49:18 Speaker_06
Right-wing idea.

00:49:19 Speaker_01
It's crazy It's mind-blowing so bananas like even being healthy fitness fitness they're connecting fitness with a right-wing idea like yeah Well, and it raises one of my sort of core political beliefs Is that our politics is focused on fake shit and distractions to distract us from the real stuff, right?

00:49:40 Speaker_01
And so if I'm looking at the environmental movement the United States of America, and I don't even have like strong views on

00:49:48 Speaker_01
The you know what the carbon footprint ultimately does I'm sort of skeptical of the experts here But I'm also skeptical of you know the other side.

00:49:55 Speaker_01
I just don't really know what I think about this I think it's insane to try to eliminate fossil fuels That's kind of a belief that I have but it's interesting that the environmental movement in America the only thing that it talks about is the carbon footprint and

00:50:07 Speaker_01
And it never talks about like, oh, why do we have the highest rates of obesity in the world right now? Right? Why is it that American kids spend less time outdoors in nature than they ever have in the history of our 250 year civilization?

00:50:22 Speaker_01
There's this weird way in which we get distracted by the fake stuff, instead of focusing on the real stuff. And I think there is a really very important environmental conversation to be had. It was interesting when

00:50:33 Speaker_01
And one of the first things that happened when I was a senator is you have this terrible train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, got a lot of headlines. And it was a mistake at the time that wasn't obvious.

00:50:43 Speaker_01
They basically set off a few of the chemical cars, which I mean, if you see the images, it looks like a nuclear bomb went off. in East Palestine, Ohio.

00:50:52 Speaker_01
But it's putting vinyl chloride and all these other pollutants into the water, into the air, into the soil. And it was amazing.

00:50:59 Speaker_01
The environmental movement almost could not have cared less about a chemical explosion in rural Ohio that is potentially poisoning thousands of people. But they were really, really concerned about the carbon footprint of those same people

00:51:17 Speaker_01
I'm sick of the distraction. I think we should focus on the real stuff. And unfortunately, it's true of the environmental policy, but it's true of a lot of other stuff. We just don't talk about the real thing.

00:51:31 Speaker_06
I'm seeing this concept that being pushed out of having an app that monitors your carbon footprint and limiting the amount of travel you can do and limiting the amount of things.

00:51:41 Speaker_01
I know where that's going to go.

00:51:42 Speaker_06
Yeah, just control. It's just controlling people.

00:51:44 Speaker_01
It's absolutely about control.

00:51:45 Speaker_06
And if you can do that, then you can get away with a lot of things. You can get away with a lot of policy.

00:51:50 Speaker_06
You can get away with a lot of decisions that are made that people wouldn't agree with because you're going to limit so many things about their life. They're going to become accustomed to being Governed that's right in that way.

00:52:00 Speaker_06
It just it's disturbing to me that there's also profit that's being made off the green movement There's a lot of people who have like making a lot of money off of these environmentally conscious things 50 million dollars to Kamala Harris, by the way

00:52:15 Speaker_06
All those bullshit fake food, that fake meat, which is not good for anybody.

00:52:19 Speaker_01
That creeps me out, man.

00:52:21 Speaker_06
Read about fake meat, folks. Read about how they're making this. And I'm not talking about 3D printed meat, which is a very different thing, which seems to be at least more consumable. But like the plant-based meat stuff, that's garbage.

00:52:34 Speaker_06
That stuff is garbage, highly processed garbage. If you want to eat vegetables and beat vegetarian, eat Indian food, okay? They make really delicious American they make very good vegetarian. They make the best vegetarian food.

00:52:48 Speaker_06
Yeah, but it tastes good and it's actually vegetables Yeah, it's not this crazy fake cheeseburger thing.

00:52:54 Speaker_01
No, that's right Stop eating that when I first started dating my wife. I just had no idea like what vegetarians ate right?

00:53:00 Speaker_01
I'm like a meat and potatoes guy from Ohio and I wanted to make her dinner and I wanted to really impress her because I was like madly in love with her and Did you cook beef?

00:53:10 Speaker_01
No, the meal that I made her, I'm not proud of this, but I'll tell you, was, you know what crescent rolls are? Those like Pillsbury yeast rolls?

00:53:19 Speaker_01
So I rolled out a flat thing of crescent rolls, I put raw broccoli on top of it, I sprinkled ranch dressing, and I stuck them in the oven for 45 minutes. And that was disgusting. And that was my vegetarian pizza that I made.

00:53:34 Speaker_01
Did you even follow a recipe? No. It's like cream. I know she ate dairy. It's broccoli and it's bread, right? That's what vegetarians eat. So yeah, I think that, to your point, vegetarian food can actually be quite good.

00:53:50 Speaker_01
I'm kind of one of these people where if I don't have a piece of meat, it's not a complete meal. But if you're any vegetarian, eat paneer and rice and delicious chickpeas. Do not eat this disgusting fake meat.

00:54:03 Speaker_06
I'm just very skeptical when someone is promoting things for either global health or for the environment, and then I find out that they have a ton of money invested in companies that could fit those needs. Yeah, it's it's a real problem.

00:54:22 Speaker_06
He's philanthro capitalism, right?

00:54:24 Speaker_01
It's very weird, man We got a look at the key.

00:54:27 Speaker_01
We have to look at the financial incentives of this I mean so one of the big things that me and President Trump confront all the time is the accusation that we're somehow like in bed with Russia She's like the the dumbest thing in the world to me.

00:54:37 Speaker_01
Like I don't really care about Russia I just don't think we should have a nuclear war like writ large. I'm very anti-nuclear. That sounds reasonable Thank you. Appreciate that

00:54:45 Speaker_01
And one of the things they never interrogate is who's the biggest funder of the green energy movement in Europe? It's the Russians. And why are the Russians funding? It's not because they care about climate change.

00:54:58 Speaker_01
It's because they want the Germans and everybody else to buy Russian natural gas. And they realize that if the Germans and French close down all their coal and nuclear factories, Russia is going to have them by the balls.

00:55:09 Speaker_01
But... How did they get the Germans to close down their nuclear factories? Oh, it's... Mine did?

00:55:20 Speaker_06
Joe's did.

00:55:28 Speaker_01
Holy shit. The Russians are monitoring this fucking conversation.

00:55:35 Speaker_06
Check, check.

00:55:36 Speaker_04
Oh, I hear me now. I hear me.

00:55:39 Speaker_06
Yeah, okay.

00:55:40 Speaker_04
Got it?

00:55:40 Speaker_06
Yeah, what happened? No, I'm out. No, it's gone again, Jamie.

00:55:44 Speaker_04
Huh.

00:55:47 Speaker_06
We'll be right back. Oh, I'm back. Yeah, but I don't even know if I'm going to stay back. How will I know if it keeps working?

00:55:52 Speaker_01
Well, I'm listening, but I don't know what happened. OK. Should we shift? Or should we just, let's try this, and then we can? Just keep going.

00:55:59 Speaker_06
Just let me know if it goes again, and I'll put my headphones on if it goes again. Had a slight technical problem, ladies and gentlemen. So where were we talking about?

00:56:08 Speaker_03
Oh, Jamie. It must be with the mute button. It must be. I don't know where it is, but your foot's not touching it.

00:56:16 Speaker_04
No.

00:56:20 Speaker_06
It's back. It's back, Jamie. Jamie, you got to replace this. I keep saying that, but now you really do. We good? I hear it. Okay, I'm not going to move. I'm not touching anything. What were we just talking about?

00:56:39 Speaker_01
Well, we're talking about how you asked why do the Germans shut down the nuclear facilities? And I know, you know, it's they're shutting down coal, they're shutting down any of their base power and leaning really into solar and wind.

00:56:53 Speaker_01
But again, the green energy movement in Europe is heavily funded by the Russians, because the Russians want to have because they produce so much natural gas. They want to have Europe by the balls.

00:57:04 Speaker_06
So again, how do they convince them to shut down their nuclear power plants?

00:57:08 Speaker_01
Well, in the same way that Bill Gates is convincing us to eat fake meat is they fund all this stuff and they make it about the environment. Well, that's true.

00:57:14 Speaker_06
He's trying to, but the problem is you look at him and you go, Hey, How are you a health expert? Look at you.

00:57:25 Speaker_06
The funniest thing ever was when Elon showed a photo of Bill Gates next to a photo of a pregnant man emoji and he said, if you want to lose a boner real quick. He's a wild boy.

00:57:39 Speaker_01
Elon is funny as shit, man. He's actually... He's funny as shit.

00:57:42 Speaker_06
Getting dunked on by that guy's gotta suck. Because you can't even say he's a dumbass. Right.

00:57:47 Speaker_01
You can say many things. You can't say he's a dumbass.

00:57:51 Speaker_06
You get dunked on by one of the smartest guys alive. But the point is, Bill doesn't look good. He looks terrible. He's aging way harder than Trump. Like it doesn't whatever you're doing. Don't eat like that anymore.

00:58:00 Speaker_06
Like go to an actual doctor Yeah, I don't know what you're doing. He's telling you you're fake This is you look like shit. So you can't give advice. This is crazy.

00:58:09 Speaker_01
You can't give advice about health Yeah, you're not a healthy person. That's right. You know, I did so there's this thing called the Munich Security Conference in In Germany, obviously, it's in Munich.

00:58:19 Speaker_01
It's kind of like Davos but for national security and And I went there and it was like a big deal for me because I went in there as the one skeptic in the entire this like massive Euro complex, Kamala Harris is there.

00:58:30 Speaker_01
I went as the person skeptical of continued escalation in Ukraine because I think that what we're doing in Ukraine is insane, and that we should have a policy effectively of promoting peace in the region.

00:58:40 Speaker_01
And we walk in and one of the people that I'm on this panel with is the leader of the German Green Party. And, you know, she's like 30 years old and she really, really cares about Russia, Ukraine.

00:58:55 Speaker_01
She's like the youngest person in the German government. And you realize you are like the exact – like you guys are literally Russian influence. Like you're accusing me of wanting to do Russia's bidding.

00:59:07 Speaker_01
You're encouraging your own country from the perch of government to shut down all baseload power.

00:59:13 Speaker_01
And you're not even self-aware about how much of your own propaganda is funded by the country that's benefiting from this, the lack of ability to interrogate. I mean, Bill Gates, you know, like, maybe he's a good guy. I'm highly skeptical.

00:59:27 Speaker_01
I don't know him very well. But he's getting rich off of all of this stuff that he's supporting in the name of health or in the name of climate. Our inability to just ask ourselves, who's getting rich from this stuff?

00:59:40 Speaker_01
Maybe we should be skeptical of the people getting rich from this stuff is one of our big failures as a political society.

00:59:46 Speaker_06
It's a sheep costume. You put on a sheep costume when you're a wolf.

00:59:49 Speaker_01
That's right.

00:59:49 Speaker_06
And you make a lot of money with global health. That's right. Who doesn't want global health? What a nice guy. Yeah. Oh, he's very philanthropic. He's spending all this money trying to help poor people. Right.

01:00:02 Speaker_06
And then you find out, wait a minute, how much money did you make doing that? Exactly.

01:00:06 Speaker_06
It's a very sneaky move, but he's he's a smart guy He's a lot of very sneaky moves like the donating all the money to the media companies, which is why they never criticize him That's right.

01:00:22 Speaker_06
He's donated like 350 million dollars to all these different companies.

01:00:25 Speaker_01
That's right. Or, you know, this is I think one of the reasons why we don't have more people asking questions about Big Pharma is the entire national media. Think about how many pharmaceutical advertisements you watch when you watch a football game.

01:00:36 Speaker_06
Yeah, let's get into this because this is an interesting one. So one of the things that happened that separated us from the rest of the world other than New Zealand is in the 1990s they allowed pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise. That's right.

01:00:50 Speaker_06
Is that something that has to stay that way? Is that something that could be changed with policy? Or is the financial incentives of that too big to move? Oh, you could change it with policy.

01:01:02 Speaker_06
I don't know that you- Do you think that you would have enough support to do something like that?

01:01:05 Speaker_01
It's an interesting question. So I've been critical of pharmaceutical advertising for a long time. My assumption is that there are not enough people who would like to do it to actually get it done.

01:01:14 Speaker_01
But I've never actually talked to my colleagues about it. So maybe it's possible.

01:01:18 Speaker_06
I bet if you ask the American people, you know, I bet that's one of those things if you put it to a national vote instead of representatives. The problem with representatives is special interest groups.

01:01:29 Speaker_01
Special interest groups and lobbyists and the amount of money. Yeah, the whole conduit of money into politics is fundamentally broken. I think we have to fix that. But I mean, okay, here's the thing.

01:01:38 Speaker_01
And I say this as a critic of pharmaceutical advertising. Whenever I see a pharma ad, and I pretty much only see them when I'm watching football,

01:01:44 Speaker_01
I'm always shocked that they actually influence anybody right because it's like oh take this drug rheumatoid arthritis And you can have all these positive experiences, and it's like oh the side effects are you know erectile dysfunction?

01:01:58 Speaker_01
rashes on your face suicidal ideation tumors in your brain and You'll hate yourself and be depressed so what you'll need is other drug, and I always wonder like You get so many of these weird side effects in the advertisements.

01:02:11 Speaker_01
How do they actually work? So I actually think that the real corruption is not really that they like persuade Americans.

01:02:17 Speaker_01
I mean, if you're going to take a drug, you're probably going to take a drug based on conversations with your doctor more than a pharma advertisement. But they do corrupt the media ecosystem.

01:02:27 Speaker_01
Because if you're getting all that money from the pharma companies, then you're not going to launch investigations into some of the things you should be launching investigations into.

01:02:34 Speaker_06
100% and that's why it's dangerous because it's not like these are completely innocent companies and then have never done anything wrong So if you all the sudden have them removed from your list of people that you're investigating Just because they advertise they've essentially bribed you that's right.

01:02:48 Speaker_06
They've bribed you and you're supposed to be the people that Distribute the actual news to the American people and you're compromised.

01:02:55 Speaker_01
So, okay. So let me tell you this this story and This is okay This is purely secondary, so if somebody tries to fact-check it. I heard this from a friend, but I heard it from a friend I trusted.

01:03:08 Speaker_01
He was a guy I knew, and he worked at the largest industry lobbying organization for the pharmaceutical companies. I was in D.C. This was a long time ago, and I just kind of ran into him. I care a lot about the opioid problem.

01:03:21 Speaker_01
My mom struggled with opioids for a very long time. She's been clean and sober for a while, but I'm very proud of her. I love you, Mom. I know you're watching this.

01:03:29 Speaker_01
This guy in the street in DC and he's he just quit his job for this pharmaceutical lobbying organization He was talking about quitting and I was like why he's like man. We just did something.

01:03:39 Speaker_01
It's very dark and basically what they had figured out is because American Indian tribes Native Americans have tribal sovereignty and

01:03:48 Speaker_01
And so they figured out, I guess, that if they gave some Native American tribe some fraction of a fraction of a penny of the royalties from the sale of opioids, that they could actually insulate themselves from litigation around the prescription opioid epidemic.

01:04:07 Speaker_01
And I guess this guy was just like thought it was so dirty that he was like I can't I can't work for this organization anymore And I was like, holy shit. That is some pretty dark stuff.

01:04:17 Speaker_01
So you guys are giving some Native American tribe like pennies So that you can insulate yourself from pharmaceutical litigation. I'd be very curious I should follow up on this to see if that actually happened but again

01:04:31 Speaker_01
Just to be clear, if the media tries to fact-check me, this is what I heard from a friend. Well, let's let Jamie fact-check it right now. Jamie, I'm very curious if this actually happened. Look into it.

01:04:39 Speaker_01
But I think it did happen because I saw the look on this guy's face and he was like, man, this is some pretty dark stuff. That's crazy.

01:04:47 Speaker_06
But that's how corporations behave. You know, we were just at the trigonometry guys were on here yesterday and we were talking about it. The corporations behave like psychopaths. Like that's, there's a book about it.

01:04:58 Speaker_06
It's like they describe how this endless pursuit. You know what it is, Jamie? Whenever I move the mic, tell me when it's back.

01:05:06 Speaker_03
You just hit it and it made a noise. It must be the cable. Sorry.

01:05:12 Speaker_06
Pharmaceutical companies using Giving royalty streams to Native American tribes to insulate themselves from lawsuits anyway. Yeah, I

01:05:36 Speaker_01
It's very scary stuff.

01:05:37 Speaker_01
Well, yeah, it's and it's this is like one of the things that I think is genuinely different about And I don't want to get too too partisan political here but about Donald Trump's Republican Party is I mean, yeah, obviously like there are corporations that we're more pro-

01:05:52 Speaker_01
certain businesses and we tend to be more anti certain businesses like for example big tech I hate big tech we get into that later, but Fundamentally, I think President Trump has changed the mindset of the Republican Party to where it was like instinctively always pro-corporate We're now sometimes willing to ask well is this corporation's interest in the American interest like there was this famous

01:06:13 Speaker_01
quote, I believe from the leadership of GM back in the 1950s, that General Motors' interest is America's interest. And I'm probably butchering the quote, but sort of paraphrased.

01:06:23 Speaker_01
Can anybody really in 2024 say that Google's interest is America's interest? Or Apple, which employs thousands of slaves in Shenzhen, is Apple's interest is America's interest? I just don't. That's ridiculous.

01:06:37 Speaker_01
And the fact that we're at least somewhat skeptical of corporate power in the Republican Party, I think is a very good trend for us.

01:06:43 Speaker_06
It is kind of weird that one of the wokest companies, if you thought about like woke companies and like super progressive and like on the right side of everything, Apple. Apple's like one of the best ones. And they have phones that are made by slaves.

01:07:00 Speaker_06
like the the people like definitionally yeah yeah people are they put nets around the building because so many of them were jumping to their deaths yes instead of fixing the work conditions they just go that's right up some nets yeah put up put up some nets so that people can't commit suicide the crazy thing is

01:07:17 Speaker_06
you still like all these like progressive people are using these devices to talk about like important social issues.

01:07:24 Speaker_01
Oh yeah, well and talking about distractions, right? The distraction, like distraction politics versus real politics.

01:07:31 Speaker_01
If Apple says hashtag BLM and gives a few million dollars to a trans rights organization, then the entire political left ignores that they're profiting off of slave labor.

01:07:42 Speaker_06
It's bizarre.

01:07:44 Speaker_01
It's crazy.

01:07:44 Speaker_06
Why can't Apple change bedfellows, Native American tribes, Big Pharma, and the legitimacy of their alliance?

01:07:50 Speaker_03
Wow.

01:07:52 Speaker_06
So it's true.

01:07:53 Speaker_03
Oh my god. You said it's 2019.

01:07:54 Speaker_01
I was gonna say, I think I saw that guy in like 2018.

01:08:00 Speaker_03
It's so gross.

01:08:01 Speaker_01
It's so gross.

01:08:02 Speaker_06
It's crazy, man. It's so sick. But it's what we were talking about. If you allow these corporations, look, they have an obligation to their shareholders. They have to make more money. Sure. What's the best way to make more money? Not get sued.

01:08:14 Speaker_06
What's the best way to not get sued? Of course. Sir, I found a loophole. Yeah. You got some fucking Adderall Ridley psychopath who's been working 16 hours like, I got a plan to get us out of here. And it works.

01:08:25 Speaker_01
It's legal. I'm sorry, look, I get the imperative to make money, but the guy who thought that up is a grade-A sociopath. I mean, that person is, I don't want them anywhere near my kids. You gotta put guardrails up.

01:08:39 Speaker_06
You have to have laws. That's why you can't have insider trading, right? You have to have guardrails up. And if you don't, people go ham.

01:08:47 Speaker_01
And this is why, look, corporations want to go make money. They should make money. Fine. But my job is public and social policy.

01:08:55 Speaker_01
And what really pisses me off, and frankly, what should piss off more Republicans, because historically, the Republican Party has been the more pro-corporate party, we should be saying, the more that these corporations are engaged in social policy, in particular, left-wing social policy, the more that we should be saying,

01:09:12 Speaker_01
I don't know that I want to give you everything that you want, which is of course what the historical party did, but I think it's much different in the last few years.

01:09:20 Speaker_06
I'm just scared that the tentacles of the pharmaceutical industry are so deeply entrenched in politics and in media that you can't just shake them off.

01:09:30 Speaker_06
You can't just say, hey, you can't advertise on TV anymore, or hey, you no longer have exemption from responsibility from the side effects of certain drugs. Because that whole thing they pulled off with exemption of

01:09:46 Speaker_06
pharmaceutical companies being responsible for injuries for injury from the vaccines was crazy crazy because People that have lied forever.

01:09:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, it does still exist it still exists and that is totally insane and I mean, you know, I so I I took I took the Vax and you know, I haven't been boosted or anything but the the moment where I really started to get red-pilled on the whole Vax thing was I

01:10:10 Speaker_01
The sickest that I've been in the last 15 years, by far, was when I took the vaccine. And I've had COVID at this point five times. I was in bed for two days. My heart was racing.

01:10:22 Speaker_01
I was like, the fact that we're not even allowed to talk about that, even no serious injury, but even the fact that we're not even allowed to talk about the fact that I was as sick as I've ever been for two days,

01:10:34 Speaker_01
and the worst COVID experience I had was like a sinus infection, I'm not really willing to trade that.

01:10:40 Speaker_01
And you don't even, you know, everybody that I know, or a lot of people I know, they talk about the second shot that they got of the vaccine was really, made them really, really sick.

01:10:50 Speaker_01
Well, that's a side effect and not a side effect that we even talk about enough in this country.

01:10:55 Speaker_06
No, and it's also, again, we're talking about companies that have a long history of lying and being forced to pay criminal fines, and then we're giving them this exemption from being responsible for any of the side effects.

01:11:09 Speaker_01
Yeah, and who do you think those big pharma companies donate to politically in 2024? I'll give you a big fat guess.

01:11:16 Speaker_06
Probably Kamala Harris. By a significant margin well particularly with a RFK jr. Being attached to Trump sure with RFK jr. Comes a lot of yeah, you know like There's a lot.

01:11:29 Speaker_06
There's a lot that you're gonna have to handle there, but that's the question is like is

01:11:35 Speaker_06
Are they so entrenched that it's impossible to, these things that disturb us, the fact that they have exemption from any responsibility because of the vaccine, the fact that they have the ability to advertise on television, can those things be removed?

01:11:48 Speaker_06
Is that a possible thing?

01:11:50 Speaker_01
I think it's a possible thing, but Because I haven't actually done the work to figure out how many of my colleagues would sign on to this, I can't say whether it's like a certain thing or a likely thing or just something that we should be working on.

01:12:02 Speaker_01
I mean, here's an interesting thought experiment. If there was one thing that we could do to rein in the pharmaceutical companies, like what would it be? Would it be liability on the Vax stuff? Would it be advertising?

01:12:15 Speaker_01
My intuition is actually it might be the advertising on the healthcare stuff because that's the way in which they engulf the media into this whole scam. That would be great, but the vaccine thing is important too because... I will look into it.

01:12:30 Speaker_01
That's what I'll say here because I would need to talk to people to see if this is even possible.

01:12:36 Speaker_06
It's a weird one where you're not even allowed to question it. You're not allowed to discuss it.

01:12:41 Speaker_06
And that becomes very religious, just like all these other things that we talked about where you have this thing that everybody speaks about in hushed tones. People know people that have been vaccine injured.

01:12:52 Speaker_06
And particularly people on the left, they're very reluctant to discuss it, even publicly. I know people who are public people who have had serious vaccine side effects who do not want anyone to talk about it.

01:13:03 Speaker_01
Absolutely.

01:13:04 Speaker_06
They're scared of being labeled an anti-vaxxer.

01:13:07 Speaker_01
I have a Senate colleague who doesn't want to talk about it, but worries that it's like permanently affected his sort of sense of balance and dizziness and vertigo. And yeah, it happens.

01:13:18 Speaker_01
I've talked to a number of people who think that they got vaccine injured. Some of them are public about it and some of them are not. But here's the thing, like, I'm not even, you're probably more anti-pharma than I am.

01:13:29 Speaker_06
Like, there are certain things- I'm pretty pro-pharma too. I think they make- great drugs that help people with all sorts of conditions and diabetes medication, insulin.

01:13:37 Speaker_01
And I mean, like the sickle cell stuff that's coming out now, we maybe have cured sickle cell disease in black Americans because of a gene therapy.

01:13:46 Speaker_01
The first, I read about it a couple of weeks ago, actually, that the first experimental therapy, and it was hard for the kid who took it, but you had like an 11 or 12 year old black American just walk out of the hospital and he's probably cured of sickle cell disease.

01:13:59 Speaker_01
That stuff is amazing. But I actually think that in some ways, what we should be encouraging these companies to do is that, right? We want them to develop the life-saving drugs.

01:14:11 Speaker_01
We don't want them to get rich by shielding themselves from liability or working with Native American tribes so that they don't get sued.

01:14:19 Speaker_01
And I actually think there maybe even is a harmony between those viewpoints, because if they had to get rich by developing life-saving therapeutics, and that's the only way they could get rich, then they'd probably do more of that.

01:14:29 Speaker_01
100% again that that's where public policy comes in and that's where like my job is to make sure That when the pharmaceutical companies get rich they get rich by curing diseases not by doing like weird Psychotic things with Native American tribes and you can't have this argument that we need exemption from responsibility Because otherwise we're not gonna be able to profit off of these things like absolutely

01:14:50 Speaker_06
Well, that means you're making stuff that too many people are getting sick from, so they're fucking suing you.

01:14:54 Speaker_01
This is nuts. Well, that's socialized costs, right? It's one of the biggest problems with corporate America is socialized costs, but privatized profits.

01:15:02 Speaker_01
And what you really want is that you want major American companies, and I'm a believer in the market economy, you want them to absorb the benefits, but also the costs. And that's often what doesn't happen. Like, for example,

01:15:15 Speaker_01
So I talked about this train disaster in East Palestine and, you know, the railroad companies hate me because I kind of went on a crusade against them afterwards. And what I realized is think of all the costs of that disaster.

01:15:26 Speaker_01
Think of the health care costs, the welfare costs from people who lost their jobs, the declining home values in that community, just all of the costs absorbed by that community and the railroads are paying slap on the hand fines.

01:15:40 Speaker_01
And it sort of occurred to me that the reason they're not more serious about these train disasters is because they're privatizing their wards. But when a major train disaster happens, who picks up the tab?

01:15:52 Speaker_01
It's the local residents and it's the American taxpayer. And that's something that fundamentally has to change.

01:15:57 Speaker_06
Yeah, that has to change. And when you're talking about the cost from a place like East Palestine, How much can they clean that up? How long does that stay toxic? Because it was millions of gallons, right? What was the number of gallons of stuff?

01:16:14 Speaker_01
I don't know the number of gallons, but it was a lot. And I hate to say the answer to your question, how much can they clean up? The answer is, I don't know.

01:16:22 Speaker_01
And I actually, this is one of my biggest frustrations, probably my single biggest frustration over my time in the Senate, is when this happened, a bunch of the residents came to me.

01:16:33 Speaker_01
It's actually very sweet and even kind of patriotic, but certainly self-sacrificing where they said, look, no one knows what the effect of this shit is going to be 15 years down the road, right?

01:16:44 Speaker_01
Because we weren't worried about, OK, a guy drinks the water in East Palestine and drops dead.

01:16:49 Speaker_01
The water levels did not have toxins at that level, but the question was, what happens when you're imbibing this stuff, breathing it in, drinking it at trace levels for 10, 15 years? Like, do you have weird diseases down the road?

01:17:04 Speaker_01
Hopefully not, right? I pray every day that hopefully not, but you can only study that in the moment. And so we actually, working with a public health epidemiologist in North Carolina and some in Ohio, we actually came up with a plan.

01:17:19 Speaker_01
Like, here's what you would need to do. You'd collect samples in the first six months to a year after the disaster. I'm talking about, like, fingernail clippings, things like that.

01:17:28 Speaker_01
You'd establish a baseline of toxins in people's blood, and then five years later, ten years later, you'd try to figure out what the toxins were in people's blood five years, ten years down the road. And then you'd ask yourself,

01:17:40 Speaker_01
what weird diseases, if any, are people starting to develop after 5, 10, 15 years, right? The long-term health effects of this stuff.

01:17:48 Speaker_01
And it was, in some ways, a really interesting thing to study because we had never had a chemical disaster where we tried to study the effects years down the road. And of course, how much would this have cost?

01:17:59 Speaker_01
Between $5 and $20 million over the whole lifetime of the study. We couldn't get Biden-Harris, we couldn't even get some of my colleagues in the United States Senate to give a shit

01:18:10 Speaker_01
And it's really frustrating to me because the time has now passed, right? All these people who were saying, we are volunteering to be a guinea pig to understand the long-term health consequences.

01:18:19 Speaker_01
The time has passed and we're never going to know because we didn't get the money to do the very small amount of money to do that study then. So you asked that question. The answer is, I don't know. I tried like hell to find out.

01:18:29 Speaker_06
Do you think that there's someone influencing them to not fund these studies because they don't want responsibility for this bills?

01:18:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, I thought a lot about that. I think in this particular case, it was just bureaucratic bullshit and too many people being distracted. There's a lot of that.

01:18:44 Speaker_01
right there's a lot of that right and look sometimes to be clear there is outright malevolence there's lobbyists who are in their ear I think of this case it was just you know a bunch of people in rural Ohio that nobody except for you know a few of us I care about them obviously but no person in the in the Harris administration cared about and so when we went to the White House and just said you could move money

01:19:05 Speaker_01
Like, even just give us a couple million dollars to collect the samples and get the study started, and then we'll privately fund it down the road. We couldn't get anything from them.

01:19:13 Speaker_01
And I think it was just, they were like, eh, we've got bigger fish to fry.

01:19:16 Speaker_06
So do you know what efforts have been made to clean that area up, or what actually can be done?

01:19:21 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah. No, I mean, look, we've definitely- Does it show what it's doing?

01:19:26 Speaker_06
So 25,800 gallons of TILX, 25,800, what's that? That's the car.

01:19:33 Speaker_03
That's the car ID. That's how much gallons was on it.

01:19:35 Speaker_01
The capacity and the contents is what?

01:19:37 Speaker_03
100,000 gallons of that.

01:19:38 Speaker_06
Yeah. Oh, each car has, oh, I see what you're saying. Each car had different stuff. Yeah, each car had different stuff. So what's the total of all of it?

01:19:46 Speaker_03
Somewhere like it's 100,000, that's another like 300,000. It's millions, right? 350,000 gallons or so.

01:19:49 Speaker_01
Millions of liters. But look, I mean.

01:19:57 Speaker_06
And all that stuff just leaks into the groundwater, it goes into the soil.

01:20:00 Speaker_01
Yeah, and a lot of people, it's a rural area, so a lot of people are in well water. A lot of people are just breathing in the air.

01:20:06 Speaker_06
And we don't even know what the health consequences are for those folks for years.

01:20:10 Speaker_01
We won't know, and we may never really know, because we didn't collect the samples at the time. Because you've got to establish the baseline.

01:20:15 Speaker_01
That was what my epidemiologist guy that I talked to in North Carolina said, you've got to establish the baseline. Because here's what's going to happen, right?

01:20:24 Speaker_01
Fast forward 10 years, people get weird cancers, sometimes because of chemical spills, sometimes just because that's human biology. Somebody will sue the train company, which is Norfolk, I think Norfolk Southern.

01:20:40 Speaker_01
We'll sue the train company and they'll say, I've got this weird cancer because of you. And what Norfolk Southern will say is, no, you don't. You don't have this weird cancer because of me.

01:20:50 Speaker_01
You have it because of just, you know, you sort of lost the game of Russian roulette that is human biology. And what we could have said conclusively was yes or no. And unfortunately, we're not going to be able to say that.

01:21:02 Speaker_01
But this is one of the things like when we're in office,

01:21:05 Speaker_01
The first, not the first, but the first disaster that we have, hopefully there aren't any, but there always are, first chemical disaster that we are, we're going to take the infrastructure of that study and right away we're going to try to establish a baseline.

01:21:18 Speaker_01
Is it possible to, I mean,

01:21:23 Speaker_06
When you have a spill of that magnitude, can you actually get everything out of the ground? Do you have to just remove all the ground?

01:21:30 Speaker_01
Do you have to test the groundwater to make sure that it doesn't... To their credit, and you're not going to hear me praising these guys that much, but

01:21:40 Speaker_01
The local EPA folks, I actually think, did a pretty good job there on the water side because what they basically did is they just ran the water in the creeks through a filtration system, cleaned it, oxidized it, and then got the chemicals out of it and then put it back into the system.

01:21:57 Speaker_01
the stuff that's just in the ground, you can't really get that out. Right? You'd have to remove the ground. You'd have to remove the ground and clean. I don't even know how you would clean it. I don't know if we have the capacity to clean it.

01:22:07 Speaker_01
What you can do is try to, you know, as we did, we passed out bottled water and tried to make sure that people weren't drinking the water until the levels of toxins hit a certain level.

01:22:17 Speaker_01
And again, but the issue was never like the levels of toxins are going to kill you. The issue was always, are they going to cause long-term problems? That is that we got so focused, and I think the media got so focused on, is the water safe to drink?

01:22:30 Speaker_01
And it's like, the question is not, is the water safe to drink? The question is, is the water safe to drink for the next 15 years? Right. And we're never going to know the answer to that question.

01:22:39 Speaker_06
Ugh. Yeah, people are terrified of this idea of someone sabotaging things like that, that have trains that contain toxic chemicals. People are terrified about the sabotaging of the grid in particular.

01:22:57 Speaker_06
That's one that a lot of people have talked about, that we're very vulnerable. What can be done to sort of shore that up? It seems like cyber attacks are possible, physical attacks are possible. And if the grid goes down, we have a real problem, right?

01:23:13 Speaker_01
We do have a real problem. I mean, look, there's New York Times or somebody else reported recently that my phone was allegedly hacked by Chinese hackers.

01:23:20 Speaker_06
Oh, no. What'd they get?

01:23:22 Speaker_01
I don't think anything. Nothing?

01:23:24 Speaker_06
Come on, man.

01:23:25 Speaker_01
Got anything in there? We'll find out, man. We'll find out. Got any memes you probably shouldn't have shared with your friends? Some offensive memes and, you know, me telling my wife to get an extra gallon of milk at the grocery store.

01:23:40 Speaker_01
I mean, you know, luckily I'm a pretty boring guy, so I don't think that they got really anything. That's nice. We'll find out.

01:23:45 Speaker_06
It's nice to be boring if your phone gets hacked.

01:23:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, it also, I mean, apparently they couldn't get the encrypted messages that were sent, so I'm pretty careful about, like, making sure I use Signal and iMessage and all that stuff. That's great.

01:23:58 Speaker_01
So, I mean, look, maybe they got some stuff. We'll find out eventually. I try not to worry too much about shit I can't control. But one thing that came up, by the way, in that – and I'll go back to your question – is about the grid.

01:24:10 Speaker_01
One thing that came up in that is the way that they hacked – and it was also President Trump's phone, apparently, too.

01:24:16 Speaker_01
The way that they hacked our phones is they used the backdoor telecom infrastructure that had been developed in the wake of the Patriot Act.

01:24:25 Speaker_01
And this is something that I think should be a much bigger part of the controversy over the Patriot Act is when the Patriot Act was passed, like AT&T, Verizon, they had to build all of these systems so that if somebody got a FISA warrant and could hack into a particular phone, the infrastructure actually existed.

01:24:42 Speaker_01
What I've been told is that that infrastructure was used by this Chinese hacker organization called Salt Typhoon, and that's how they got into the Verizon network, and that's how they got into the AT&T network.

01:24:53 Speaker_06
What a great name, by the way, Salt Typhoon. It's a pretty badass name, right?

01:24:57 Speaker_01
If they have anything on me, I can't be too pissed off at them. At least they named themselves Salt Typhoon.

01:25:02 Speaker_01
But the answer, the question about the grid is, this is actually, it's one of these things where if we had a functional government, it's pretty easy to develop the systems. Because if you do like an EMP attack, right?

01:25:14 Speaker_01
Ron Johnson, who's a senator from Wisconsin, is really preoccupied with this. You know, it doesn't take down the whole grid. What it really screws with is the power transformer system.

01:25:25 Speaker_01
So what we should have is basically a backup power transformer for every major system in the United States of America just sitting in a warehouse that's turned off. And because it's turned off, it won't be affected by an EMP pulse.

01:25:37 Speaker_01
And then if there is an EMP attack, you just get those transformers to swap out the ones that were destroyed, and then the grid is back up and running.

01:25:44 Speaker_01
It's actually a scandal, I think, that the federal government has not just at one point, with all the money that we spend on defense and everything else, just said, we're going to spend $15 billion to buy enough power transformers to have a backup for every transformer in the country.

01:25:57 Speaker_01
We should do that.

01:25:58 Speaker_06
Yeah, one of the things that Trump talked about that a lot of people probably weren't aware of was the damage that these wind turbines are doing to whales. I wasn't totally aware of it. I had no idea until I watched your podcast with him.

01:26:13 Speaker_06
I knew a little bit about it, but I didn't read about it until after I talked to him. And it's a real problem. It's a very real problem.

01:26:20 Speaker_06
And what a conundrum for people that are so-called environmentalists that think the wind is like the cleanest option, when it's not. The turbines don't last. You can't recycle them.

01:26:32 Speaker_01
It doesn't work in saltwater in particular, which is what most of the world's water is. I think wind is the biggest scam out there. It's total bullshit. It's also pollution. When I see those gigantic wind tunnels. They're ugly. They're gross. They're ugly.

01:26:47 Speaker_01
Yeah. I mean, I thought this, where were me and my wife? We used to be on road trips before we had a Secret Service detail. And we took a road trip. Good old days. The good old days, man.

01:26:57 Speaker_01
We took a road trip through Kansas or Nebraska, or maybe it was Iowa. It was one of the, I mean, we went through all three of those states, but I can't remember where, you just go for miles and miles, and you see nothing but wind turbines.

01:27:12 Speaker_01
And it's like, this is beautiful American countryside that used to be green rolling hills, and now you have these disgusting dystopian wind turbines. I'm sorry, they are ugly. I will die on this hill. They're ugly. I don't want them in American society.

01:27:26 Speaker_06
and nuclear power plants are actually more efficient safer and you don't have the problem like we think about the problems of nuclear waste like they've kind of sorted a lot of those out they haven't sorted out the problems of getting rid of these turbines no they haven't not at all i have a buddy of mine who lives in south texas and i went to visit him and you you drive down there and it's like an hour of turbines they're everywhere there's so many of them i can't stand you see them as like the sky is turning dark you see these things just spinning it's just like

01:27:55 Speaker_06
Gross.

01:27:55 Speaker_01
They kill the birds. They apparently kill a lot of birds.

01:27:59 Speaker_06
If you look underneath them, it's like bird graveyards. It's crazy.

01:28:02 Speaker_01
Yeah, it really is.

01:28:03 Speaker_06
And it's clean. It's green. It's like we're we're brainwashed to think that these things somehow or another are beneficial because they're attached to this idea of being environmentally conscious.

01:28:14 Speaker_01
And I got I got the thought behind them. Right. I understand why you were trying to turn. That's obviously a source of energy because you have wind blowing through. That's energy that you capture. But we're just not that good at it. with this.

01:28:24 Speaker_01
It's not very efficient. Right. Just accept that it was a mistake. It's not that efficient. The political or the environmental costs are pretty significant.

01:28:32 Speaker_01
You know, solar, I think, is actually a little bit more reasonable because you can get a lot more of the power. They last a little bit longer. They're not nearly as ugly.

01:28:40 Speaker_01
And you can put them in places where people don't frankly want to live that much anyway, like in deserts and things like that.

01:28:45 Speaker_06
Well, they do those roofs now.

01:28:47 Speaker_01
Tesla does a solar roof, which is fantastic. I think that's a great way, right? That's just empty space. But wind, I think we should say, this was a failed experiment. We're going to stop subsidizing this. And if people want to have a wind turbine, great.

01:28:59 Speaker_01
But we're not going to build miles and miles of wind turbines anymore, at least not with taxpayer subsidy.

01:29:04 Speaker_06
But I just hope people recognize that the trade-off is not worth it.

01:29:09 Speaker_06
You're getting a little bit of electricity, you're ruining the landscape, you're ruining the view, you're killing birds, you're messing up whales, and those things don't last that long, and then when you've got to get rid of them, you've got to put them in a landfill.

01:29:21 Speaker_06
The whole thing's bananas.

01:29:22 Speaker_01
It's totally bananas. And again, it's we focus on the carbon footprint thing. And we don't talk about the fact that there are these massive environmental hazards that goes back to the distracted politics versus the real stuff.

01:29:33 Speaker_01
And we should be talking about the real environmental consequences also know that

01:29:38 Speaker_06
It's one of those things that, again, is much like a religion, where you must stay with the doctrine. You must follow it by the word.

01:29:47 Speaker_06
Because if you step out of line and say, actually, when you look at these studies, it doesn't really show that the world is warming. It shows that over the last X amount of thousands of years, we're in a gradual cooling period

01:30:00 Speaker_06
and that what's really terrifying is global cooling. Randall Carlson, who's an expert in asteroid collisions and the Younger Dryas impact theories, fascinating guy.

01:30:10 Speaker_06
But he says that the periods in history where we came very close to extinction are like when there's an ice age. Those are the most terrifying.

01:30:20 Speaker_06
When there's global warming, you just move to where it's not so warm, and that's what people have done forever.

01:30:27 Speaker_01
Well, and you deal with it technologically, right? This is the thing that the solution to global warming for however long this warming trend lasts is to deal with it technologically, right?

01:30:37 Speaker_01
I mean, if you look at the number of people who die from disasters in the United States, it's going down because we've gotten better at predicting stuff and helping people deal with things.

01:30:46 Speaker_01
And of course, you still have terrible things like Hurricane Helene, but they are luckily part of a downward trend and people losing their lives from terrible storms.

01:30:56 Speaker_01
And, you know, if you really think – like if you really think that carbon – this is another reason why I'm somewhat skeptical of like the carbon obsessives is if you think that carbon is the most significant thing, the sole focus of American civilization should be to reduce the carbon footprint of the world, then you would be investing in nuclear in a big way.

01:31:17 Speaker_01
And then when you say that, the environmentalists say, well, you've got all these poison rocks to deal with afterwards.

01:31:22 Speaker_01
Well, the poison rocks problem is a less significant problem than the carbon problem if you think that we're all going to go extinct in 100 years. So let's deal with the most pressing problem. They're all like, no, no, no, no.

01:31:33 Speaker_01
And their solution is to buy solar panels that are disproportionately made in China, which has the worst carbon footprint and growing of any country in the entire world.

01:31:44 Speaker_01
They obviously don't believe their own bullshit, which is why I'm somewhat skeptical of what they say.

01:31:48 Speaker_06
Also when you have a movement and your spokesperson is Greta Thunberg and not some Insanely intelligent scientist who's done years of research on this stuff and there's also not a consensus among scientists There's a lot of scientists that are heretics that are stepping outside the lines that are saying this is not an issue and then they're also pointing out the fact that Carbon is what trees consume and there's more greenery in the world today than there was a hundred years ago Which is a very inconvenient thing for people

01:32:18 Speaker_06
See, I didn't even realize that.

01:32:19 Speaker_01
I had no idea. That's true.

01:32:20 Speaker_06
Well, carbon is what trees feed off of.

01:32:23 Speaker_01
I knew carbon is what trees feed off of. I didn't know there was more greenery than there was 100 years ago. That's interesting.

01:32:28 Speaker_06
Not only that, you've got Bill Gates that's saying planting trees is not a solution to the carbon problem. Wait a second.

01:32:36 Speaker_01
This is so not true. This is what seems so crazy.

01:32:38 Speaker_06
It's so not true. And it's also, historically, like one of the craziest moments in history, in my opinion, is the Mongols and what the Mongols did in the 1200s. They lowered the carbon footprint of Earth because they killed so many people. It's crazy.

01:32:55 Speaker_06
10% of the population of earth that is crazy because of that because they they Devastated these places and killed so many people Trees grew more trees grew and it lowered the carbon flow these places that have been overcome by agriculture were then reconsumed by nature Yeah, and it lowered the carbon footprint of Earth

01:33:15 Speaker_01
Well, there is a fundamentally, it raises the point, there's a fundamentally anti-human element of the radical environmental movement in the United States of America.

01:33:23 Speaker_06
They're saying we have to reduce population. This is one. And when they say it with vaccines, you're like, slow down.

01:33:28 Speaker_05
That's right. Did you just say that out loud?

01:33:33 Speaker_06
Robert F. Kennedy's jr.

01:33:34 Speaker_06
And I encourage everyone to read Robert F. Kennedy jr's book the real Anthony Fauci Because it's not just about this crisis that we went through with kovat 19 it's about a host of different things that were done and One of them was a vaccine that was supposed to be a DPT vaccine that they were giving to girls in Africa That was just birth control.

01:33:58 Speaker_06
It was just sterilizing them Wow

01:34:01 Speaker_06
And that they were I didn't realize they were giving them hcg and that they were giving them into this uh enhanced schedule I don't want to screw this up because my recalls are the best and I want to but the reality is there was experiments done on unwitting unknowing african women where they gave them this thing that was supposed to be a vaccine against a disease but it was really sterilizing them and they're experimenting dark again that's

01:34:27 Speaker_01
That's like the Native American Oxycontin thing.

01:34:29 Speaker_06
But that's this global health shit. There's a lot of experimenting going on. That's right. We pulled up an AP article. I had Alex Jones tell me this. I was like, what? It's like, they gave him polio. They tried the vaccine, they gave him polio.

01:34:42 Speaker_06
I'm like, what?

01:34:43 Speaker_01
That's a good Alex Jones impersonation.

01:34:44 Speaker_06
It's an AP article that shows that they had to stop giving these kids in Africa this polio vaccine because it was actually giving them polio.

01:34:53 Speaker_06
That's crazy like because they experiment because this is how they find out if stuff works so you get people with no internet connection They live in dirt floors.

01:35:01 Speaker_06
We're gonna help you and then they come in they experiment on them, and it's so dark That is so dark, and it's all done through this idea of philanthropy. Yeah And it's crazy, and they profit off of it. The whole thing is madness.

01:35:14 Speaker_06
And because they have so much influence and so much power and so much money is being generated, they're allowed to get away with these things.

01:35:21 Speaker_01
Well, just think about that from the perspective of these poor people. I assume the polio vaccine thing happened in Africa or somewhere else. Okay, so you're in Africa.

01:35:29 Speaker_01
Some white dude shows up, says that he cares about you, gives you a shot that's going to, you know, prevent you from getting some disease and then you become like permanently disabled or even die because of it.

01:35:40 Speaker_01
Like think about what effect that has on how those Africans perceive our civilization. And are we going to have, you know, are they going to like

01:35:50 Speaker_01
We're going to have a conflict in 30, 40 years because people are so pissed off about us coming in and giving them healthcare that isn't actually healthcare. I really worry about that stuff.

01:35:59 Speaker_01
I mean, this is one of my big things with the Russia-Ukraine conflict is people don't realize how much of Africa's food supply comes from the Ukraine, an astonishing amount. So if you have this war that goes on forever,

01:36:11 Speaker_01
and there's not enough food going to Africa, are you going to have a bunch of starving, desperate people who are like pissed off because they're starving, who hate European civilization because they don't have – they're not getting the food that they were expecting to get?

01:36:26 Speaker_01
Like, we never think about the knock-on effects of this stuff, right? Like, yeah, it's really dark and really evil that we're giving them polio.

01:36:33 Speaker_01
I also wonder the people who live in the village that got polio, what the hell are they going to be doing in 30 years? They're probably going to hate us.

01:36:40 Speaker_06
Yeah, I would be really upset if you gave my kid polio.

01:36:42 Speaker_01
Yeah, you came over here like justifiably so So I'd hate these people right you give my kid polio under the pretense of helping them.

01:36:50 Speaker_06
It's crazy But you know, then there's also pharmaceutical drugs that are really beneficial and this is the thing like they have to have guardrails Yeah, you have to have some you have that guardrails and regulations to keep these people from just never-ending profits Yes, because they always gravitate towards that they always gravitate towards making the most amount of money

01:37:06 Speaker_01
And again, this is where I go back to some of the arguments of the old left, like what kind of guardrails do you want these companies to have?

01:37:11 Speaker_01
Do you want the guardrails to be that if you donate to the trans pride and BLM organizations, you get to do whatever the hell you want?

01:37:18 Speaker_01
Or do you want the guardrails like we're going to protect health and public safety and make sure that you're not like killing people under the auspice of helping them? Yeah, and that that's the kind of guardrails. I want the comments logical.

01:37:30 Speaker_06
Yeah, very logical, but logic is you know dangerous today Logic man logic is it's a problem when you have ideologies and logic is a colonial idea, man And math is racist Well, okay, so it's interesting and

01:37:53 Speaker_01
There's this movie that's probably extremely influential to my entire political worldview, and I didn't realize until last night, because I got into Austin late. Usually my wife travels with me. She wasn't with me last night.

01:38:03 Speaker_01
She's taking care of the kids today. So I get in the hotel room in Austin, and it's very late, and I watch this movie, Boys in the Hood. Have you ever seen Boys in the Hood? O'Reilly Oh yeah, sure.

01:38:13 Speaker_01
I watched that movie a ton when I was eight, nine years old, and I didn't realize how much that movie has had an influence on me until I watched it last night.

01:38:23 Speaker_01
Furious Styles, a lot of his stuff about not letting financial institutions buy up all the stuff in your communities, obviously he's talking about black people in LA and not white people. you know, rural small-town America.

01:38:37 Speaker_01
But I was like, oh, like, that's maybe the first place that I ever heard this idea. Or he talks about, like, the importance of fatherhood, the importance of especially young boys having a father in the home. It's like, I got that from Boys in the Hood.

01:38:49 Speaker_01
And obviously, it spoke to me when I was a kid because I grew up at the time, and I didn't have much of a relationship with my dad. And it's interesting, man. He makes this observation, math being racist.

01:38:59 Speaker_01
He's criticizing the SAT for being culturally biased. But then he says the only part that isn't culturally biased is the math.

01:39:06 Speaker_01
And it's like, oh, this is like a black nationalist in the mid 80s, because that's kind of the philosophy of this movie is what you might call like old school black leftism.

01:39:16 Speaker_01
This movie in the 1980s is saying something that I wish a lot of white liberals would hear today, which is actually math is not racist.

01:39:25 Speaker_01
It's one of the things that's like not deaf definitively not racist is math and numbers you guys are losing your damn minds Well math is racist is one of those ones where you it's like if you heard that in a cocktail party be like What?

01:39:39 Speaker_06
Like if someone behind you was saying math is racist, you'd be like, what the? We got to get out of here, honey.

01:39:44 Speaker_01
I'd say I want to go. I want one of what they're having. I want to hang out with those guys. So, OK, by the way, this is my, you know, an act of bipartisanship.

01:39:54 Speaker_01
The one thing that Republicans, man, that we're really I think we got really wrong in the last few years is the anti-Hunter Biden stuff. I want to go hang out with Hunter Biden.

01:40:05 Speaker_01
I mean, I may be the only Republican, that dude, that dude knows how to have a good time. He was like Hunter S. Thompson without the writing talent. That guy went hard. You gotta give it to him.

01:40:18 Speaker_01
I would bet $100 that Hunter Biden is voting for Donald Trump for president.

01:40:22 Speaker_06
Well, it doesn't seem like he likes his dad.

01:40:24 Speaker_01
Well, I think his dad, I might bet $20 on his dad voting for Donald Trump for president, especially last night after the garbage comment. You know, that guy is trying to help. Donald Trump. We're going to win. I think we're going to win.

01:40:38 Speaker_01
But after we win, I'm going to be convinced that Joe Biden was trying to help us the whole time.

01:40:42 Speaker_06
He put on the MAGA hat. The MAGA hat was crazy. That was crazy.

01:40:45 Speaker_06
When he put on the MAGA hat in front of those guys and they all cheered and he insisted on keeping the hat and he took it with him, I think he's very, very resentful that he got ousted in what was essentially a coup.

01:40:56 Speaker_06
Yeah, and and I'd love to know what what happened there, but I would love to know what I have to use a restroom So the the wildest thing about the laptop was that they were able to suppress it from social media and really wild when I discussed that with Zuckerberg and he openly admitted it that the FBI had contacted him and told him that it was Russian disinformation and like

01:41:23 Speaker_06
That was one of those things while he was saying I was like, yo, I was like, this guy's like, just saying this.

01:41:28 Speaker_01
Yeah. And I remember when that episode came out, because it, like, it reverberated across American politics, like crazy. Yeah, holy shit. He just said the thing that we all suspected for a long time.

01:41:39 Speaker_06
And if it wasn't for Elon, purchasing Twitter, and then finding out how much of an influence they were having on this. and that they were, in fact, silencing something that they knew to be correct under a lie.

01:41:53 Speaker_06
And 51 former intelligence agents signed off on this. It was like, how did they pull that off? Just pulling that off is really wild. And the fact that there was no outrage from the left

01:42:06 Speaker_01
that the left was like it's fine because it's our side and trump is evil and he's hitler we gotta get rid of them so let's just lie about this laptop and no consequences nothing right the same people that pushed it are still by the way they still have security clearances i believe which is going to change when we win but uh... mean also

01:42:25 Speaker_01
This is where I always get pissed about the media conversation around what happened in 2020, is what they'll do is they'll sort of find the craziest conspiracy theory about what happened in 2020.

01:42:39 Speaker_01
They'll debunk it and say, oh, look, this shows that nothing bad happened in 2020. There's a nonpartisan organization that actually looked at what would have happened to Americans' votes.

01:42:50 Speaker_01
if they had just known the truth about the fact that Joe Biden fundamentally had traded his political influence for money. Like, that's what it was. It's an old-fashioned American corruption story.

01:43:00 Speaker_01
I will give you access to powerful people in exchange for money, right? That was the true scandal of the Hunter Biden laptop. Again, it wasn't Hunter Biden doing cocaine with a stripper. That was the fun part. You can say that. I have an election to win.

01:43:15 Speaker_01
So That was the real corruption. It was the corruption and direct evidence that the corruption and the nonpartisan organization said that knowledge, which was suppressed by the entire American media and big tech scene,

01:43:32 Speaker_01
that would have changed millions upon millions of votes. And we know that the number in four swing states was 88,000 votes that were the difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden winning the 2020 election.

01:43:43 Speaker_01
So set to the side all of the other arguments about fraud and all the other rule changes that happened in the midst of COVID, we know that big tech colluded with our own sort of I would say colluded.

01:43:55 Speaker_01
The one thing I'll say about Zuckerberg is – like, I don't know him super well. I've never had a problem with him. But I do wonder if it's a convenient excuse. I don't doubt that the FBI said, hey, this is Russian disinformation.

01:44:06 Speaker_01
But these companies still have to take some agency over this too, right? So I think it was both the corruption of the FBI and the intelligence services, but also the big technology companies themselves. Both of them are at blame.

01:44:16 Speaker_01
And I think fundamentally, if they had not done what they did, Donald Trump would have won another term as president of the United States.

01:44:22 Speaker_01
You're never going to be able to convince me that if millions upon millions of swing voters knew the evidence of Joe Biden's corruption, and it was staring them in the face, that we would not have been able to pull that one out.

01:44:34 Speaker_06
Well, Zuckerberg has gotten really into mixed martial arts. He's gotten really into jujitsu and really into training. And there's very few things that will turn you into a conservative more than martial arts training.

01:44:51 Speaker_06
There's no way to get ahead other than hard work.

01:44:54 Speaker_01
Well, have you seen all these studies that basically connect testosterone levels in young men with conservative politics? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So maybe that's what's going on.

01:45:04 Speaker_06
Well, there's a certain amount of it.

01:45:06 Speaker_01
Maybe that's why the Democrats want us all to be, you know, poor health and overweight is because that means we're going to be more liberal, right? If you make people less healthy, they apparently become more politically liberal.

01:45:20 Speaker_01
That's an interesting observation.

01:45:22 Speaker_06
Well, I think there's like socially liberal, like live and let live, do whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anybody, which is really what I am. And then The reality is labels get all confused.

01:45:35 Speaker_06
Yeah, and this is where it gets sort of conflated like the reality of hard work being a virtue yes, and this has always been a conservative idea is that you're really supposed to like make your mark in this world and Get up in the morning and work hard and you should be proud of that.

01:45:51 Speaker_07
Yes, and

01:45:52 Speaker_06
The only way to get good at jujitsu is hard work.

01:45:53 Speaker_07
Yes.

01:45:54 Speaker_06
So everybody who really trains hard and gets good has a certain level of just a true understanding of the real relationship that the actual, the mathematical equation of focus, time, energy, and discipline versus positive results.

01:46:12 Speaker_06
And there's only one way to excel. There's no other way to excel at martial arts other than training hard. So it's kind of normal that he's becoming like leaning more libertarian and wearing hoodies now.

01:46:25 Speaker_01
My secret theory is that Zuck is now a Trump supporter, but he can't say that publicly, of course, but hopefully he is.

01:46:33 Speaker_06
Really difficult to say that now that's why guys like Bill Ackman and Chamath and all these people that stand out It's taken real courage.

01:46:40 Speaker_01
It really has. Yeah, I like both of those guys because they really do get excommunicated Absolutely.

01:46:46 Speaker_06
Yeah cocktail parties are a mess after that in Marin County They think you're a Nazi.

01:46:53 Speaker_01
And that's putting it mildly. But yeah, I mean, one of my closest friends in the tech world is David Sachs. And Dave and I have talked about this, because we were both like – it's funny.

01:47:00 Speaker_01
We were both sort of critical of Trump in 2016, but we came at that criticism from a right-of-center perspective. And both of us by 2020 were like, This crazy bullshit has to end. Trump is our guy.

01:47:12 Speaker_01
And maybe not only is he our guy, but maybe he was like the only one who could have turned the tide against this insanity. And David, I mean, he has become so far out there. And I admire it in a lot of ways.

01:47:25 Speaker_01
And sometimes I see what David says and I'm like, dude, are you going to be like, welcome?

01:47:32 Speaker_01
Well, I mean have you ever interviewed David so well, I mean he's he's just look he's he's very anti-woke He's very very into foreign pop what I would call foreign policy realism Like why are we starting these stupid wars all over the world?

01:47:46 Speaker_01
We should be our foreign policy should be more pro-peace and it's just crazy to me because he's he's so inflammatory about it that I'm And by the way, I love it, right? I agree with a lot of what David says.

01:47:59 Speaker_01
And even when I disagree, I know he's a smart guy. But he is just saying, look, I don't give a shit. If you're going to come after me, come after me. But I'm going to say what's on my mind.

01:48:07 Speaker_01
And I think a lot of people are going in that direction, which is fundamentally a good thing. is people are sick of being told what to think.

01:48:15 Speaker_01
And like the First Amendment, obviously, it's a legal document that talks about the role of government and censorship and sort of prohibits government censorship.

01:48:25 Speaker_01
But it's also a sort of ethic and an attitude that is endemic, or I hope is, to American society, which is we're going to think what we want, we're going to say what we want to.

01:48:36 Speaker_01
That's an important First Amendment value, even though it has nothing to do with the First Amendment as a legal document itself. and a lot of people were sick of being told what to think.

01:48:44 Speaker_06
I was very upset when Tim Walz was saying that the First Amendment doesn't apply to hate speech and misinformation. Like, especially those two terms, hate speech and misinformation, because... They're in the eye of the beholder. Right.

01:48:58 Speaker_06
It's so subjective. And it's the marks are moving as to what's called hate speech now. It's moving further and further away from normalcy.

01:49:06 Speaker_01
If you say that an 11 year old should not get gender transition drugs, that is hate speech, according to a significant subset of the left.

01:49:13 Speaker_06
Yeah, if you call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce Jenner, that's hate speech.

01:49:15 Speaker_01
A lot of people say that's hate speech.

01:49:17 Speaker_06
And you used to get banned for life from Twitter for dead naming someone. Yes. Which is just banana. Which is totally bananas. You can call him a cunt, but you can't call him Bruce. The whole thing is so crazy.

01:49:32 Speaker_01
I think that this is, and look, I try not to be too partisan because I know a lot of people watch your show, but this is to me the biggest and most fundamental difference between Kamala and President Trump and the campaign is, whether it's Biden calling people garbage or Tim Walz calling people fascist and Kamala calling people Nazis,

01:49:55 Speaker_01
or endorsing explicit censorship, we're not trying to censor our fellow Americans, right? We'll attack Kamala and our policies and our ideas, but we're not trying to say you should be silenced because you disagree with us.

01:50:07 Speaker_01
That is anathema to everything that I believe in.

01:50:11 Speaker_01
And that is what's happened in the modern Democratic Party, at least at the leadership level, is they've gotten really comfortable with the idea of silencing people who disagree with them, such to the point where – like, it's not even that Tim Walz thinks that

01:50:23 Speaker_01
hate speech should be censored, it's that the governor of a state could utter that phrase without recognizing how fundamentally subjective it is, right? Or Hillary Clinton saying that we want to censor misinformation.

01:50:35 Speaker_01
She has come out and explicitly said that we have to censor disinformation and misinformation.

01:50:40 Speaker_06
Or we lose total control.

01:50:42 Speaker_05
Like, hey, you're not supposed to have total control over discourse.

01:50:46 Speaker_01
That's the whole point. We don't want people to have total control. And they can utter it without the American media going completely bananas just suggests there's something broken about the political culture of the left.

01:50:59 Speaker_01
I mean, there are people on CNN and, you know, CBS and all these other sort of mainstream networks. I would call them corporate networks.

01:51:06 Speaker_01
All these corporate networks that will say, you know, when Donald J. Trump says that if you riot after the election, you're the enemy of the people or you're an enemy within, like that is a major threat to democracy.

01:51:18 Speaker_01
But Hillary Clinton's saying that we should censor disinformation. They're just, yeah, no big deal.

01:51:23 Speaker_01
And the fact that they can get so fired up about what I think is a pretty common sense observation that if you riot, law enforcement should have a response to it. But they think that it's the end of the – they don't care at all.

01:51:35 Speaker_01
They don't care at all when Hillary Clinton and Tim Walz endorse explicit censorship. That should scare the hell out of us.

01:51:41 Speaker_06
It should scare the hell out of you whenever any politician is encouraging censorship, especially when it's about things, like we said, about hate speech and misinformation. Misinformation according to who? Because we've already shown that there's

01:51:57 Speaker_06
There's a bunch of different factors that have control over what is presented as fact. Yes. And they're not always honest or accurate. And these things get put out and it harms people. And then there's some sort of a correction that comes along.

01:52:11 Speaker_06
Well, the only way to find that out, especially like during the COVID times, these things that they called misinformation, how many of them turned out to be true? Almost all of them. It's crazy.

01:52:21 Speaker_06
The Wuhan lab, it was racist to assume that the, when Jon Stewart did that bit on Colbert, did you see that? I have never seen it, no.

01:52:30 Speaker_06
It's amazing, because you see Colbert scrambling, and he's trying to like, Jon's like, do you think maybe the lab that was the Wuhan coronavirus lab Like, maybe it came from there.

01:52:46 Speaker_01
It was so obvious. I mean, the whole argument for the start of covid that wasn't from the Wuhan lab was basically, as I understood it, that a bat had gotten a weird coronavirus and had, like, fallen into a guy's soup. at a wet market.

01:53:00 Speaker_01
Or a pangolin was involved.

01:53:02 Speaker_06
There's so much stupidity involved in that.

01:53:04 Speaker_01
And that was more believable than there's the Wuhan coronavirus lab. And yeah, I remember when Tom Cotton was the first major American politician to talk about this. Tom's a good friend. And he was immediately pilloried as this terrible racist.

01:53:21 Speaker_01
It's just, it's bizarre that we're not allowed to talk about things in the United States of America. I will say, I think it's gotten better.

01:53:28 Speaker_01
This is one of my more optimistic views is, you know, when we're all locked in our houses in the summer of 2020, I think that did weird things psychologically to everybody.

01:53:38 Speaker_01
And I think that a lot of people rebelled against it and we're probably in a better position now in 2024. Like Chamath would not have come out, I love Chamath, would not have come out for Donald Trump in 2020, right?

01:53:51 Speaker_01
Now he's hosting fundraisers and giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to our campaign. So I think the fact that you have so many old school liberals and old school leftists say we're done with this bullshit is actually a pretty good sign.

01:54:03 Speaker_01
Yeah, there's still social consequences to it, but not nearly as high as they were four years ago.

01:54:07 Speaker_06
Well, I think when Elon Purchased Twitter it changed the entire game because now you have this Wild West Uncensored version of social media that's run by this super genius madman who has all the money in the world It's crazy. I mean, it's really

01:54:25 Speaker_06
Without him, we're in a lot of trouble. Because let's say Twitter never gets purchased.

01:54:31 Speaker_06
They run the same way they've run it in the past, where they're being influenced by whatever companies and whatever agencies decide to remove posts or remove people and ban Donald Trump and ban a bunch of different conservatives and ban a bunch of people that were outcasts.

01:54:50 Speaker_06
And they just decided they were controlling the discourse.

01:54:53 Speaker_06
Well, then you have no outlets other than that's right parlor and we discussed this yesterday those outlets 100% got infested by bots where absolutely the weather is putting Nazi stuff up and like oh, this is a Nazi site you're the not you

01:55:09 Speaker_06
Yeah, exactly Instead of it being just a place where conservatives can go and talk about things and not be censored like they were on Twitter Then they get infiltrated with all this hate shit and then it becomes a hateful place and they don't even want to go So now they're homeless.

01:55:23 Speaker_06
That's right. Well now all of a sudden Twitter comes along Elon comes along has this complete shift and how he's viewing this attack on free speech Then you have Schellenberger and Matt Taibbi. They go into the Twitter files. They find like oh my god.

01:55:37 Speaker_06
Yeah, like this is this is unconstitutional

01:55:39 Speaker_01
This was industrial scale censorship is what it was.

01:55:42 Speaker_06
And they weren't right. They did all this stuff and it turned out that all the things they were saying were either lies or were incorrect. And there's no repercussions.

01:55:55 Speaker_06
And so you're seeing all this in real time and no one on the left has any problem with it, which to me is insanity. And the people that do have a problem with it, their solution seems to be just go to the right.

01:56:06 Speaker_06
They don't even feel like you can reform the left. They just, people are just like Tulsi Gabbard becomes a Republican. People are just abandoning this. Like I can't talk you people.

01:56:14 Speaker_01
That's right. I'm doing an event with Tulsi Gabbard tonight in Pennsylvania. I love her. I love her. She's awesome. And yeah, I think she basically decided that the left cannot be reformed in this country anymore. That's what happened with Bobby Kennedy.

01:56:25 Speaker_01
That's what's happened with a lot of old school liberals is they say, yeah, you know, we don't care what you do in your bedroom, but we believe in the fundamental right of people to speak their mind.

01:56:36 Speaker_01
And the Democrats just don't believe in that anymore. So I thought a lot about like what's you know, what is going on there and what's driving it psychologically.

01:56:45 Speaker_01
And I think that – I think what's going on is the entire modern Democratic Party grew up in an era where there was consensus, right? Walter Cronkite could say something about the Vietnam War.

01:56:59 Speaker_01
And it turned out he's probably right about that, actually. And it collapsed public support for the Vietnam War, where they grew up in an America where social trust was just so much higher.

01:57:09 Speaker_01
And I think that a lot of them are trying to reimpose that social trust from the top, not recognizing that that high level of social trust came organically from the way that American society worked. And if you have

01:57:23 Speaker_01
people trying to reimpose it from the top, it actually degrades the very thing that you're trying to create.

01:57:28 Speaker_01
Because I've seen, I mean, family members of mine who got really radicalized because they were like, wait a second, should we be masking three-year-olds in our schools? Like, does that do something to their language development?

01:57:38 Speaker_01
And then they would get kicked off of Facebook because a person with 900 Facebook friends who has no public profile dared to like question the prevailing narrative. And again, they ended up being right about it.

01:57:50 Speaker_01
I actually think that what the left is doing is degrading social trust by trying to create it from on high.

01:57:57 Speaker_01
And I kind of get the psychological impulse because, you know, like a lot of great things that we do come from high levels of social trust, but you've got to reestablish it organically. You can't try to force it on people.

01:58:08 Speaker_06
And there's been some course correcting. Like, did you read Bezos's article? Was it yesterday that came out in the Washington Post?

01:58:14 Speaker_01
I did see that. What did you think of that? I mean, I go back and forth. Like, again, I don't know Jeff super well. I've always liked him, my interactions with him.

01:58:22 Speaker_01
But the problem with the Washington Post is not that their editorial page has been insufficiently conservative. It's that their entire journalism department is fundamentally engaged in democratic political activism.

01:58:36 Speaker_01
I mean, the two – we talk about this a lot and, you know, my political guys are – you know, a lot of them are outside and certainly a lot of them will watch. But we talk a lot about which of the newspapers that have really gone crazy.

01:58:46 Speaker_01
And The New York Times is kind of an exception. Yeah, it's very left-wing, but it hasn't totally gone insane. The Washington Post might as well be a propaganda outlet of the Democratic Party.

01:58:56 Speaker_01
If you look from the Hunter Biden laptop to any number of stories where they just tow the left-wing line almost instinctively. The problem was with the journalism at The Washington Post. It's not with the editorials.

01:59:10 Speaker_01
I don't care, frankly, whether the editorial page endorses Donald Trump or Kamala Harris. I care about whether the journalists are lying about Donald Trump. or lying about Kamala Harris.

01:59:21 Speaker_01
And frankly, they're lying a lot in the negative direction about my running mate, and they're lying a lot in the positive direction about Kamala Harris.

01:59:28 Speaker_01
So what I would like to see from Jeff Bezos is a commitment to The Washington Post not just being a Democrat super PAC. I don't give a shit if he hires a few more conservative columnists. It doesn't matter.

01:59:38 Speaker_01
What matters is, do they hold their journalism to anything like a high standard? And if they don't do that, then to me, it's just window dressing.

01:59:47 Speaker_06
But it seems like that's at least a step in the right direction.

01:59:51 Speaker_06
One thing would be great, you have an argument against Donald Trump on the front page, next to an argument for Donald Trump, and let two different intelligent people state their cases, one from a conservative perspective, one from a liberal perspective, and let's see what resonates with you.

02:00:08 Speaker_01
It's a step in the right direction. I just think that unless you change the underlying, you know, journalism to make it more fair, it's going to be only a step in the right direction rather than fixing the problem.

02:00:18 Speaker_06
What else can he do? I mean, he's probably pretty busy on his yacht hanging out with his girlfriend with his tight shirts on.

02:00:28 Speaker_01
Go into the office and like read everybody's work.

02:00:30 Speaker_01
Okay, so let me give you an example There is a there's a journalist by the name of Matt Boyle who writes at Breitbart, you know, Matt Boyle Okay, so Matt is even though he writes for Breitbart and I know that most people assume that Breitbart is just it's like right-wing rag

02:00:46 Speaker_01
Matt is – he has one of the best contacts of journalists in Washington.

02:00:52 Speaker_01
Like, he knows what's going to happen in the country before most left-wing journalists because he talks to the liberals, he talks to the conservatives, he has allies on Capitol Hill.

02:01:01 Speaker_01
I'd love to see The Washington Post hire a guy like Matt Boyle and say, Matt, go and do what you're going to do. And obviously, it's not going to be able to have a political bias to it, but go and investigate.

02:01:12 Speaker_01
If you want to go and investigate Kamala Harris's campaign, go and do it. But that is what it would look like, is empowering conservative and independent journalism in the same way that Jeff Bezos has empowered left-wing journalism.

02:01:23 Speaker_01
If I see that happening, then I'll be a little bit more optimistic about his stewardship.

02:01:28 Speaker_06
Well, could you imagine if there's the same sort of scrutiny on Kamala's speeches and appearances in these media outlets as there is on Trump's? Oh my God.

02:01:38 Speaker_06
One of the things that we talked about was how they edited that one answer that she was asked about foreign policy. At CBS. Yeah. They edited it completely, and I wasn't aware that they put an answer for a completely different question.

02:01:55 Speaker_01
Well, okay, so I I think that what happened there having done some try to understand a little bit better is they basically just edited Her answer down a lot so that she didn't sound like a total insane person because what aired I think on the smaller You know The one aired on the channels online the smaller pick up was the rambling was the rambling the word salad

02:02:19 Speaker_01
But what actually aired on the news programs was, I mean, it still didn't sound very good, but it sounded a hell of a lot better. Let me give you a very good example.

02:02:27 Speaker_06
But it's really not the answer.

02:02:29 Speaker_01
So it's like they changed the answer. But let me see. Let me see what. Yeah. No, you're right. They changed the answer. But I just want to find the statistic from my team because I asked them this last night. So.

02:02:42 Speaker_01
They did change the answer, and they changed it in a way to protect her. And then, importantly, they refused to release the transcript, right? So my attitude would be, just release the transcript.

02:02:50 Speaker_01
Let people see what she actually said so that you at least have some integrity as a journalistic outlet. But OK, so here's you, of course, I'm sure, paid attention to the kerfuffle over a comedian at the Trump rally at MSG.

02:03:04 Speaker_01
I think you even know this guy, right? He's a good friend of mine, Tony Hitchcock. So he tells a joke about,

02:03:11 Speaker_01
you know, Puerto Rico, the number of mentions on CNN about this joke in the last 48 hours, this was as of last night, 143, on MSNBC 101, on ABC 53, on NBC 32, and on CBS 31 in two days. They talked about that joke effectively nonstop.

02:03:31 Speaker_01
You know what it means to have 31 mentions on NBC news about this particular thing? That is a crazy, that is saturation. Last night, Joe Biden called the half of America that's going to vote for Donald Trump garbage.

02:03:47 Speaker_01
Do you think that the word garbage is going to appear on CNN 141 times over the next two days? I would bet no. Now, what's the difference?

02:03:55 Speaker_01
Well, one difference is that it was a comedian telling a joke and it's the president of the United States telling what he actually thinks. Another difference is, again, it's a comedian with, at best, a tenuous connection to the Trump campaign.

02:04:08 Speaker_01
And on the other hand, you have the actual sitting president at a vice presidential campaign event, telling the vice president, sorry, telling the entire country at an event sanctioned by the Kamala Harris campaign, that half of Americans are garbage.

02:04:26 Speaker_01
And I guarantee the media is not going to cover this in the same way. I don't know if Jamie can bring this up, but I tweeted about this last night, that Politico, when they initially tried to write the story about what had been said,

02:04:40 Speaker_01
by Joe Biden, they said that Biden had called racism against Puerto Ricans garbage. Well, who disagrees with that? I think that racism against Puerto Ricans is garbage, but that's not what he said. He said that Trump supporters are garbage.

02:04:56 Speaker_01
He said it's on video. So Politico tried to, like, retcon this. It turned out there was a video, so we can actually see for ourselves what was actually said. But the amount of dishonesty in the American media really is off the charts.

02:05:08 Speaker_06
It is, but also with Joe Biden, I think at this point in time, he's literally that crazy guy on the porch yelling at the neighbors.

02:05:16 Speaker_06
I mean, he's, no one thinks he's there, which is also one of the fascinating things when they asked her, when did you know that he was mentally impaired and why didn't you talk about it earlier? And there's this

02:05:30 Speaker_06
Joe Biden has always done the amazing work that Joe Biden does.

02:05:38 Speaker_05
It's just like, where are you going? You want to get the lights that they use in the air traffic controller, like, come this way. Help her out.

02:05:49 Speaker_01
Do you think she wears an earpiece? Uh, I wouldn't be surprised, I have no idea.

02:05:53 Speaker_06
The earpiece one was amazing, the little Bluetooth thing, the earring.

02:05:57 Speaker_01
It's astonishing, she talks, the only way I can describe it is she talks in circles. Tim Dillon says it's like she does gypsy curses, because she speaks in gypsy curses. That's very good.

02:06:10 Speaker_01
We need to build an opportunity economy because if Americans don't have opportunity, then they're not going to have the opportunity to be Americans. And it's like, what the hell did you just say?

02:06:19 Speaker_04
The opportunity to generate wealth and generational wealth. Like, wait a minute.

02:06:24 Speaker_06
Do you know a few people generate generational wealth that means you have so much money you're gonna give it to other generations There's actually okay.

02:06:31 Speaker_01
I mean, I give a lot of speeches. So there's actually a skill to this.

02:06:35 Speaker_01
I think that she is the Michael Jordan of Using as many words as possible to say as little as possible there's actually a certain gift that she has because you listen to her talk and You know, you're a hundred two hundred words into it.

02:06:50 Speaker_01
You're five hundred words into it and you're like, oh What the hell did she just say? She didn't say anything. Right. And that actually, I mean, OK, so, yeah, there's a certain political skill in saying a lot without actually saying anything.

02:07:02 Speaker_01
But it actually worries me about her being president. Like, OK, there are all these substantive policy disagreements. And we could talk about, OK, I don't like her border policies. I don't like this. I don't like that.

02:07:12 Speaker_01
But what does she do when she's in a meeting with a world leader and she has to like know the details of public policy to negotiate with Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping?

02:07:24 Speaker_01
Like one of the major things that you do as a president is you participate in economic negotiations, like what tariffs are we gonna apply on your goods unless you lower the tariffs on ours or vice versa, right?

02:07:35 Speaker_01
You have to be able to know a little bit about your job to be the president of the United States. And I don't know that she has an ounce of curiosity about public policy in this country. That's what scares the hell out of me.

02:07:46 Speaker_06
Well, it's just strange that everyone's accepting that this person who is the least popular vice president ever

02:07:54 Speaker_06
is now the solution to the problem, and that the media machine in just a few days did this 180 and just sold her as the solution, and as long as they keep her from having these conversations where she's allowed to talk...

02:08:10 Speaker_06
they're able to pull this off. And the fact that it's happening with no primary should be really concerning to people because it's never happened before. They could have had a primary.

02:08:19 Speaker_01
Well, it's also part of the process where you identify people's flaws, you figure out what they're good at, what they're bad at. Like the primary is actually a grueling process. How you handle pressure. How you handle pressure. Right.

02:08:30 Speaker_01
And we don't really know how she's handled pressure because she's only done it for a little while. And if you just look at Donald Trump's public schedule, J.D. Vance's public schedule versus Kamala Harris, dude, it is so striking how little she does.

02:08:42 Speaker_01
There was an interview that she did. I think it's the only really tough interview she's done with Brett Baier of Fox News. I believe that she had a clear calendar for two days before she did this interview. So they're just prepping her?

02:08:55 Speaker_01
Just prepping her. But how can you actually You know, that's not pressure. If you get to take two days off for one single interview, that's not pressure. And also just little things. I mean, look, there's this story out there.

02:09:08 Speaker_01
To be clear, I have no idea if it's true, but there is a woman who has gone on the record and said that Doug Emhoff, Kamala Harris's husband, smacked her in the face in France. OK, that's been reported on the media.

02:09:20 Speaker_01
I'm sure you guys can find it if you want to. Okay, again, maybe it's not true. Maybe it is true. But these things take time to actually figure out and investigate. And here's the thing, you know, you know this, I know this, most people know this.

02:09:34 Speaker_01
If you are a domestic abuser, that usually doesn't stop with one person. Like most domestic abusers are serial domestic abusers. Is it in the public interest to do some investigation about whether the White House

02:09:47 Speaker_01
the president could be sharing the White House with the person who is engaged in domestic abuse. That is in the public interest to know.

02:09:55 Speaker_01
Not only is the American media not that interested in it, but most importantly, you don't have the time to really investigate some of these accusations.

02:10:02 Speaker_01
Meanwhile, every time somebody says anything about Donald Trump without an ounce of evidence, the American media picks it up and runs with and makes an entire news cycle totally incurious about what's going on with Kamala Harris.

02:10:14 Speaker_06
But I think over time, what's interesting is most people are becoming aware of this extreme bias, the difference in the scrutiny that's applied to Trump.

02:10:23 Speaker_01
So that's right. But you go back to this question you asked me about Jeff Bezos.

02:10:26 Speaker_01
This is why you need good reporters who have the investigatory skills, who are empowered by their employers to go out and do the investigations like, you know, your platform

02:10:38 Speaker_01
you're having more honest and open conversations than anything that's happening in the corporate media. It's one of the reasons why I listen to your show, one of the reasons why I'm happy to be here.

02:10:45 Speaker_01
But you don't have a person working for you who's going to go to France and talk to this woman and investigate whether this is true.

02:10:54 Speaker_01
This is why I've told Elon this, but the most useful piece of philanthropy, if you're a right-of-center American, would be to set up a nonprofit organization where you pay a really good reporter

02:11:07 Speaker_01
For five years, you give them complete job security and you just tell them, go off and investigate what's going on in the world and bring it back and report on the truth.

02:11:17 Speaker_01
Because if you don't have that, then that is where the media still has a fundamental advantage over us, is they've got an army of people investigating me and Donald Trump. There's no one really investigating Kamala Harris.

02:11:29 Speaker_06
Well, there's also the amount of left-wing media versus right-wing media is pretty disturbing. What is the percentage of networks that lean left? CNN clearly, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS. And then you have Fox.

02:11:48 Speaker_06
And then you have a couple of online things, News Nation, whatever.

02:11:51 Speaker_01
But the reach is much less. It reaches much, much less. And if you just look at, I mean, you're only, you and a few others are the only people who can compare with the actual platform size of an NBC, a CBS.

02:12:03 Speaker_01
I mean, yeah, fewer people watch them now than they did 20 years ago. But if you look, man, you're still getting 5 to 8 million viewers every single night for each of the major networks on the nightly news. That's incredible reach, right?

02:12:16 Speaker_01
There's still a lot of power there. And to your point about the comparison, Fox News, number one, if you look at Fox News' viewership compared to NBC's, NBC dwarfs it. But more importantly in some ways is, Fox News, which I do think is very important,

02:12:35 Speaker_01
But yeah, they have a right of center bias, certainly, I will admit that. But if you look at how much Fox News is covering the left fairly versus the right, it's much more balanced than like an NBC, right?

02:12:48 Speaker_01
Like NBC would never have an interview with Donald J. Trump, where the journalist is asking tough questions, but is like sitting down and broadcasting Donald Trump for an hour. Fox News would do that for Kamala Harris.

02:13:00 Speaker_01
And they did do that for Kamala Harris. And there's a real difference there.

02:13:04 Speaker_06
Well, there's also like the way Brett Breyer, uh, interviewed Bayer. The way he interviewed Kamala Harris is very similar to the way he interviewed Donald Trump. Exactly. Exactly. And nobody accused him of doing anything sneaky then.

02:13:22 Speaker_01
No.

02:13:23 Speaker_06
Or no one was even angry at him.

02:13:24 Speaker_01
Well, because the expectation is that you're going to interrupt and you're going to fact check and you're going to try to actually do the job of an interviewer. But the expectation is that if you touch Kamala with anything other than kid gloves,

02:13:35 Speaker_01
You know, you're not allowed to do that.

02:13:37 Speaker_06
But I think, again, I think most people are upset. It's one of the reasons why the movement towards Trump, they're so enthusiastic, they're so energetic. It's because they do realize that there's this imbalance and they don't like it.

02:13:54 Speaker_06
And they think that the only way this is going to get fixed is someone who is a complete outsider. And you can't be more outsider than a guy who they're literally turning the judicial system against him.

02:14:04 Speaker_06
They're literally trying to prosecute him like a banana republic.

02:14:07 Speaker_06
They're doing it over and over and over again, and they're doing it, they're speaking about it openly, we're going to put him in jail, we're going to lock him up, and that way we're going to keep him from being in the office.

02:14:17 Speaker_01
I use this analogy a couple times publicly, but so what's interesting to me about toddlers, and I've talked with Tucker Carlson about this. Toddlers lie in a way that's very different from how everybody else lies, right?

02:14:33 Speaker_01
So, like, if you're telling a lie, normally, you know, hey, did you do that thing? You would say, no, no, no, somebody else did it, or they kind of qualified a little bit. Let me give you an example. My four-year-old, I'm a big baker.

02:14:46 Speaker_01
You're probably surprised by that, but I'm a big baker. And my four-year-old and I are making an Oreo cake a few weeks ago. And my four-year-old is helping me. He likes to help me out a lot when I bake.

02:14:59 Speaker_01
And I go to the bathroom, and the Oreos that we're supposed to put in the Oreo cake, like crumble them up and put them in the cake, like half of them are gone when I get back. And I'm like, buddy, what happened to the Oreos?

02:15:09 Speaker_01
And he looks at me, and without a hint of irony or shame, he says, I didn't eat the Oreos, you did. Right. So that's the way that Kamala Harris lies, is I didn't eat the Oreos, you did.

02:15:22 Speaker_01
Not only does she actively brag and has her administration actively bragged about trying to arrest her political opponents, she will go out and say that if Donald Trump is the president, he's going to arrest his political opponents, even though he already was president and he didn't do that.

02:15:35 Speaker_06
Did you see she went on Shannon Sharp and said that he's going to take away your Second Amendment rights? It's crazy.

02:15:40 Speaker_01
The person who literally wants to confiscate firearms, Kamala Harris, is saying that Donald Trump wants to take away your Second Amendment rights. Dude, the thing that... Okay, do you know who Steve Bannon is? Yes. Okay, fascinating guy.

02:15:53 Speaker_01
Did he just get out? He got out of prison yesterday. They have the audacity to say Donald Trump wants to jail his political opponents. Steve Bannon just got out of prison after a four-year prison sentence yesterday.

02:16:07 Speaker_01
And by the way, do you know what he was put in jail for? Do you know the actual charge? No. Contempt of Congress. Eric Holder, who was Obama's attorney general, was found in contempt of Congress.

02:16:19 Speaker_01
or at least was – there was – Congress found him in contempt. It was never litigated. He was never tried to put in jail. There was no court case around it.

02:16:29 Speaker_01
The contempt of Congress that Steve Bannon engaged in is that the J6 committee or one of these banana republic committees from the congressional Democrats, they issued him a subpoena.

02:16:39 Speaker_01
He, under the advice of his lawyers, felt that he couldn't actually respond to the subpoena because executive privilege applied.

02:16:46 Speaker_01
They held him in contempt of Congress and they threw him in prison for it, a charge that has been levied against multiple Democrats. Republicans never tried to throw anybody in prison over it. Steve Bannon just got out of prison.

02:16:59 Speaker_01
Kamala Harris is literally using the power of government, has already used the power of government to jail her political opponents, and she's saying that Donald Trump is going to do the thing that he didn't do and she did when they were in respective positions of power.

02:17:12 Speaker_06
Do you think it's because they're worried that if he gets into power and he gets back in the office that he's going to start investigating a lot of this stuff and the 51 former intelligence agents?

02:17:23 Speaker_01
That's exactly what they're afraid of. They're afraid of consequences. They're afraid of, and look, do I think the 51 intelligence agents who signed that letter should go to prison? No, but should they be stripped of their security clearance?

02:17:33 Speaker_01
Absolutely, I do. Right? They lied. They used their position of authority and lied to the American people about something that was in the national interest. If there are no consequences for that, then what are we doing?

02:17:43 Speaker_06
And they're probably very concerned with a trial that's going to reveal what the elements of that particular story really were.

02:17:51 Speaker_01
Oh, there's, yeah. There's a lot of corruption there. There are, I'm sure, higher-ups. There are people who said one thing in public but said something else in private.

02:17:59 Speaker_01
There probably is, at some level of that whole thing, people who maybe perjured themselves or at least unethically lied. Look, there's a lot going on there.

02:18:10 Speaker_01
But, you know, Donald Trump is not going out there and has never said, I want to arrest you because you're a Democrat. He's never said, I want to arrest you because you disagree with me.

02:18:18 Speaker_01
He's never said, I want to censor you even because you engage in disinformation. What he has said is that we should investigate some of the obvious sources of corruption in the United States government. That's not going after your political opponents.

02:18:31 Speaker_01
That's what Kamala Harris does.

02:18:32 Speaker_06
Well, one of the things that he's talked about pretty openly is that he could have gone after Hillary Clinton and he didn't because he thought it would look bad for the country.

02:18:38 Speaker_01
And it's true.

02:18:39 Speaker_06
I mean, he really could have. She did commit crimes.

02:18:41 Speaker_01
The FBI, a Democrat who's supporting Kamala Harris, said that she committed, I think, not just crimes, but maybe felonies. She committed felonies. And what Donald Trump did is said, you know what? It's bad for the country.

02:18:53 Speaker_01
A lot of my voters would love me to prosecute Hillary Clinton, but it's bad for the country, so I'm not going to do it. That is the exact opposite, of course, of what Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have done.

02:19:03 Speaker_01
And again, the media, it's a total upside down universe where they accuse us of doing the very thing that they've done themselves.

02:19:11 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's really wild to watch. The gaslighting is off the charts. So there's a bunch of things that people are deeply concerned with in this country.

02:19:20 Speaker_06
And it seems like for men, it's the economy that seems like the primary thing that people are concerned with. And it seems like for a lot of women, it's abortion. Abortion and Roe v. Wade is a big concern.

02:19:35 Speaker_06
If I'm correct, your position, and this is what they wanted when they overturned Roe v. Wade, they wanted to leave it in control of the states. Is this your position?

02:19:46 Speaker_01
Yeah. So what President Trump has said, and what I've said, is abortion is now a matter for state legislatures, state voters to determine. And there's, I mean, one, that's always what the argument was, right?

02:20:00 Speaker_01
If Roe versus Wade goes away, then the state legislatures, the state populations are going to make each individual abortion decision the same way that like, you know, California has different laws on a whole host of subjects that Alabama does.

02:20:12 Speaker_01
The idea is that, yeah, California would make its own abortion policy, Alabama would make its own abortion policy. And so there's a basic sort of principle of federalism at work there. But I also think that, you know, knowing Donald Trump well,

02:20:25 Speaker_01
I think he's motivated also by desire for us to just stop having a culture war over this particular issue and to let the voters in these states make these decisions while the national government focuses on things like lowering the cost of groceries and lowering the cost of housing and securing the southern border.

02:20:43 Speaker_01
And I think there's actually some great wisdom in that because, you know, think about this. Abortion has not really been a political issue for 50 years. Now, we say that it is and obviously we disagreed about it and people fought about it.

02:20:54 Speaker_01
It was always something the Supreme Court said, this is the way it is. There's no political decision-making. every European nation has made abortion policy democratically. And that's what Donald Trump is saying. Do what every European nation has done.

02:21:08 Speaker_01
Let the voters decide what their abortion policy is going to be. And we're going to focus the national government on different things. And I say this as somebody who – I genuinely want people to choose life. And I'm a big believer in

02:21:23 Speaker_01
And I think having children has been like a revelatory experience for me. And I want our country to be more pro-family, more pro-child.

02:21:31 Speaker_01
I think there are all these things that we can do at the federal level to make our country more pro-family and more pro-child, make childcare easier.

02:21:38 Speaker_01
I've actually sponsored legislation to stop the surprise medical bills that happen when people, and I've seen this with my own wife, you go to the hospital, you come home, you've got a beautiful baby, but you've also got a $20,000 unexpected bill because you choose the wrong out-of-network healthcare provider when you're at the moment of delivering a baby.

02:21:59 Speaker_01
There are all these things we can do. to make it easier for young women, young families to choose life, but Donald Trump, I think, wants abortion policy, and he said this explicitly, to be decided at the state level.

02:22:12 Speaker_06
I'm not, it's not possible for me to get pregnant, so when I think about these things, according to some people, depends on who you ask, but I think when you talk to... You need to get with the 21st century, man.

02:22:25 Speaker_01
It's possible for a man to get pregnant now.

02:22:27 Speaker_06
To most people, I think one of the issues is, for a lot of people, one of the issues is that men are making decisions for what women can and can't do. I hear that.

02:22:37 Speaker_06
And one of the more concerning aspects of this is like, say, if you live in a state like Texas, where there's a limit to when you can get an abortion.

02:22:47 Speaker_06
I think it's like six weeks, which a lot of people think at that point in time, you can't even tell whether or not you're pregnant. And this puts a lot of women in very vulnerable positions.

02:22:56 Speaker_06
And then there's this thought that they could go to another state where it is legal and have an abortion, but they could be possibly prosecuted for that in their state.

02:23:10 Speaker_06
That that's concerning to me that we can make if there's a place in the country where it's legal to have a medical procedure And you live in a state where it's not legal that your state can decide what you can and can't do with your body Which is essentially based on a religious idea and a lot of the and I'm not criticizing it one way or another but I'm saying that a lot of what this choose life thing is about that life is precious and life is sacred and life begins at the moment of conception and

02:23:36 Speaker_06
And some people agree with this, but other people disagree with this. And it seems to be a lot of it is based in religion. My concern is using that to dictate whether or not a person can legally travel to another state.

02:23:52 Speaker_06
I don't think the government should be monitoring where you travel, or what you do when you travel, as long as that thing is legal.

02:23:59 Speaker_06
And I'm concerned with this idea that you could be prosecuted for it in your state for doing something that's legal somewhere else.

02:24:07 Speaker_01
I don't like the idea to be clear. I've not heard of this maybe as a. as like a possibility, but not as something that actually exists in the law.

02:24:16 Speaker_01
But I've not heard of somebody being arrested, and I don't like the idea of arresting people for moving about the country. I haven't heard of them doing either.

02:24:22 Speaker_06
I've heard of the discussion.

02:24:23 Speaker_01
I've heard it as a threat. I don't like the idea, to be clear, of people getting arrested for freely moving around the country.

02:24:29 Speaker_01
So to your point about it being a religious idea, I mean, I would say I know a number of non-religious people who are very pro-life.

02:24:37 Speaker_01
And I think the honest answer is that what we're doing is we're trying to figure out what is the right balance between autonomy and life.

02:24:45 Speaker_01
And I say this as somebody who, when Ohio made this decision, I campaigned very aggressively for the more pro-life position in the state of Ohio and my side lost. In fact, we got our asses kicked. We lost 60-40. And I took some learning from that.

02:25:01 Speaker_01
I think one of the things that I took as a learning, as a guy who cares about this issue, is Republicans, we've got to earn the people's trust, because they don't trust the idea that when we say that we're pro-family, we don't just mean pro-birth.

02:25:17 Speaker_01
A lot of people say you're pro-birth, but you're not actually pro-family. And I think there's a lot that we can do as, you know, Republicans to try to earn back the trust of the American people.

02:25:26 Speaker_01
But if I'm trying to represent as fairly as I can the pro-choice and the pro-life position, here's what I think is really going on is you have something. Now, some people would say maybe religiously motivated, maybe not, that it's a human life.

02:25:40 Speaker_01
I would say that it's a human life. but at least has the potential to be human life. And then on the other hand, you have, again, I freely recognize this, you have a woman who wants to make a choice about what she wants to do with her own body.

02:25:53 Speaker_01
Those are two very profound values, both of which I think are valuable, right? I mean, I think autonomy is really important. I also think life is really important.

02:26:02 Speaker_01
And what we're trying to talk about fundamentally, I think, again, I'm trying to be fair to both sides here, is to balance the interest in life against the interest in autonomy.

02:26:11 Speaker_01
And I think that the way to do that, at least my view, is to let the American people debate and talk about and argue about this issue and come to this decision on a state-by-state basis.

02:26:24 Speaker_01
And again, California, Florida, Ohio, Alabama, we have different solutions to this particular problem. But that's what we're trying to do, right? People like me are trying to say, look, I think life really matters.

02:26:37 Speaker_01
And other people are trying to say, I think autonomy really matters. And the truth is that 95% of Americans would probably say, there's some way to strike the balance in the middle.

02:26:47 Speaker_01
You know, where most of Europe has ended up here, and it's actually striking because you think of Europe, again, as a more socially liberal place in America, almost every place in Europe has ended up effectively where late term abortion outside of cases of medical necessity is banned outright.

02:27:03 Speaker_01
And then, you know, early stage abortion is allowed. That's how most societies that democratically settle on this. That's how they strike the balance. I think my attitude is I'm running for vice president.

02:27:13 Speaker_01
I'm not trying to tell you how to strike the right balance, but we want to preserve the right of states to make these decisions.

02:27:19 Speaker_06
I think what people are afraid of is men telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

02:27:24 Speaker_01
That's the autonomy value. I get it, man. I get it. And I think that there is a very real and valid argument here that autonomy should take precedence here. But I also think we're being honest. There is an argument that life matters too.

02:27:39 Speaker_01
And that's the balance that people are trying to strike.

02:27:42 Speaker_06
It's very complex and people don't want to look at it that way.

02:27:44 Speaker_06
I always discuss when I talk about abortion, I say it's one of these very human issues where it's very strange, where most people think like at the moment of conception, if you could just remove those cells and keep them from multiplying, that's less bad than if you wait six months.

02:28:03 Speaker_06
Like almost everybody would agree to that. So what are we doing then? Like Bill Burr has a great bit about it.

02:28:08 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's a very good bit. And there is a moral intuition there that obviously like something that looks and feels like a baby is more valuable than, you know, something that's just a heartbeat. Sure. But, you know, I think it's just hard, right?

02:28:23 Speaker_01
Because it's not clear to me philosophically where you draw the line here. It's a very, like, hard question to figure out and I think that's why people debate it and disagree about it so vociferously. But it's interesting, man.

02:28:38 Speaker_01
The thing that I find, again, as a person who leans more in the pro-life side of this debate is, okay, so you will sometimes hear people on the left say, well, late-term abortion doesn't happen.

02:28:50 Speaker_01
Well, there's an organization called the Gutmacher Institute. It's a pro-choice organization. It's a pro-abortion rights organization.

02:28:56 Speaker_01
And they found that there are approximately – I think it's 12,000 abortions that happen in the second half of pregnancy. So this is past 20 weeks. Maybe it's even past 22 weeks. About 12,000 abortions past 22 weeks, okay?

02:29:12 Speaker_01
They also found that of those, 8,000 of them are purely elective. there's

02:29:31 Speaker_06
Especially when it's not a medical necessity.

02:29:33 Speaker_01
Exactly. Every European nation has gotten to that point where you say, okay, like 8,000 late-term abortions, like, come on. But again, it's not my decision as the vice president or – and that's not President Trump's view.

02:29:46 Speaker_01
He's very against a national abortion ban because he wants this debate to happen organically and democratically. And I think that's kind of our attitude to this. Now, you're right. Again, there is a balance to strike here.

02:29:59 Speaker_01
But usually in American society, we recognize that the way to strike that balance is to debate it as citizens, and not to have like lawyers and judges make these determinations for us.

02:30:10 Speaker_06
Believe it or not, Joe Biden had one of the most logical takes on it a long time ago. A long time ago, back when he could talk real good.

02:30:16 Speaker_01
Back when his brain wasn't fried?

02:30:17 Speaker_06
And he said abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

02:30:20 Speaker_01
Well, that was my grandmother's view, right? That was my grandmother's view. That was the Bill Clinton view.

02:30:25 Speaker_01
And I do think that there's something that is really weird about this whole debate where, you know, thank God, to be clear, this is not true of the gross majority of our pro-choice citizens.

02:30:36 Speaker_01
But you do sometimes see people like they'll go on TikTok and they'll celebrate having an abortion. I've known many, many women. usually when I was younger, who chose to have abortions because they felt like they didn't have any other options.

02:30:52 Speaker_01
And, you know, I don't I don't judge them. I think that a lot of them just felt like they were completely trapped and they made the decision that was ultimately right for them.

02:31:01 Speaker_01
Again, my argument is we need to try to gain those women's trust back because clearly the Republican Party on this issue has lost a lot of trust. But none of them were like, baking birthday cakes and posting about it afterwards.

02:31:13 Speaker_01
They recognize that this is a medical procedure and this is, you know, something that they felt they had to do. But celebrating something like that is just bizarre to me.

02:31:25 Speaker_01
And I'm much more comfortable with the people who say safe, legal, rare than I am with the people who say let's shatter abortion from the rooftops.

02:31:33 Speaker_06
Well, it's just this rebellion thing, you know, and it's also rebellion. Like the concept in the zeitgeist is that abortion had always been, you know, Roe v. Wade had always been the law of the land. And then all of a sudden that was taken away.

02:31:46 Speaker_06
And you have these religious men who are trying to dictate what women can and can't do with their bodies.

02:31:52 Speaker_01
Yeah. No, look, I mean, again, I understand that. I understand the pushback against that. But I think you can go, like with so many other issues, you can go way too far about it. And it becomes trying to celebrate something.

02:32:05 Speaker_01
At the very best, if you grant, I think, every argument of the pro-choice side, it is a neutral thing, not something to be celebrated.

02:32:12 Speaker_06
I think there's very few people that are celebrating, though.

02:32:14 Speaker_01
I agree. It's just the extreme weirdos, the TikTok people. Well, but it's like everything, right? And I try, you know, this is something that is dangerous about social media.

02:32:22 Speaker_01
is the danger of social media with me is not to me that I live in my own echo chamber and just have views reinforced.

02:32:30 Speaker_01
The danger is that I'm only exposed to the crazy people on the other side who make it easier for me to adopt my own worldview because I'm saying, oh, it's just people celebrating.

02:32:42 Speaker_01
When in reality, like you said, most American women, even those who are pro-choice, are not celebrating this thing.

02:32:50 Speaker_06
I think that's one of the insidious things about the social media algorithm is that it highlights things that people engage with, which is more outrageous, more things that they find reprehensible. They see more of it.

02:33:03 Speaker_06
I see so many guys with makeup telling me they're going to take your kids, indoctrinate your kids. Why am I seeing that? Well, it's because they're highlighting it. And when you have an app that's owned by China, that is the number one.

02:33:15 Speaker_01
I mean, is that a coincidence? Yeah, facilitating the worst of our fellow citizens because it allows us to silo more.

02:33:22 Speaker_01
But I mean, the way that I deal with that is I just try as hard as I can to remember that most Americans, this is what really bothered me about what Biden said, like most Americans who vote for Kamala Harris are fundamentally good people.

02:33:31 Speaker_01
Like, I believe that. And you got to try to find the people who are reasonable, and talk to them.

02:33:38 Speaker_01
And that's why I talk about, you know, the importance of regaining trust is just I've had enough conversations with people who don't like the Republican Party's, even their perception of the Republican Party's views here, that if you talk to reasonable people, you gain a different perspective than if you talk to the unreasonable people.

02:33:54 Speaker_06
So I think a lot of people are only informed by headlines and by real quick things that they see on television. And so they form these narratives in their head. And this is what they're operating off of. That's absolutely right.

02:34:07 Speaker_06
And this is why they have this weird perception of both Republicans and of Trump. And then they start throwing these terms around like fascism and white supremacy. And well, of course, you don't like fascism. Of course, you don't like white supremacy.

02:34:19 Speaker_06
You can't be a Republican. And the next thing you know, you're on the other side. And you know, like, how did you get me? You railroaded me, you fucks.

02:34:26 Speaker_04
You guys are censoring my Facebook.

02:34:27 Speaker_06
What's going on here? And there's not a reasonable – and that's the one thing that I think the Republican Party has done poorly, is be a little bit more balanced in some of these controversial social issues.

02:34:43 Speaker_06
One thing that people were worried about right after Roe v. Wade was gay marriage and gay marriage laws. And people were thinking, well, it's religion that overturned Roe v. Wade, and religion is probably going to overturn these gay marriage laws.

02:34:59 Speaker_06
And people are very terrified about that, too.

02:35:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, which obviously, that's not something we're trying to do. But it's interesting to me that how much people focus on the religious element of it.

02:35:08 Speaker_01
Because if you go back to the Roe versus Wade debate, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was a feminist icon and was very pro-choice, she thought Roe versus Wade was terrible law.

02:35:17 Speaker_06
Why do you think that?

02:35:19 Speaker_01
Because I mean, basically, because of the argument that often, you know, sort of Republicans we use about making it a state issue is she said, look, you can be pro-choice as Ruth Bader Ginsburg was, but the avenue to make abortion policy should be legislatures, not judges.

02:35:35 Speaker_01
So it was a procedural argument about how the Constitution functioned, where it's funny, like, Ruth Bader Ginsburg actually agreed with Donald Trump that even, you know, like, that this should be a state's issue, that the states should make these decisions among their citizens.

02:35:50 Speaker_01
And it's telling that that perspective is not illustrated or highlighted. But look, I understand, like, people who aren't, you know, I'm obviously a person of faith.

02:35:57 Speaker_01
They don't want people of faith to force their values down people who don't agree with them. But I'm sort of comfortable with

02:36:05 Speaker_01
Everyone of us kind of having our zone and within that zone I don't want people to come in and tell me what to do like in my home I'd like to be able to raise my kids with my religious values and I'd like to be able to teach my kids what I think and you should be able to teach your kids what you think and then we recognize that the more public the zone the less that I can get to control what you do and

02:36:27 Speaker_01
And that's part of living in a pluralistic society, and I'm very comfortable with that. I think, unfortunately, the modern left seems to be less and less comfortable even with people of faith having their own private zone, right?

02:36:39 Speaker_01
This is the trans thing, where it's like, oh, we're going to take your kids away if you don't consent to gender reassignment. Or, you know, we're going to tell you that you can't send your kids to a religious school. You hear people say these things.

02:36:49 Speaker_01
Again, I think it's the crazies. It's not the majority of our fellow citizens. part of living in a pluralistic society is accepting that every man's castle or every woman's castle is his or her own.

02:37:03 Speaker_01
You've got to have respect for people within those castles. And then we should hopefully just have some common sense things that everybody can agree on when we're talking about public spaces.

02:37:12 Speaker_06
I think for a lot of people, worst case scenario, when they start thinking about religious influence on the way they're allowed to behave and the way their state is governed. Worst case scenario is a state adopts Sharia law.

02:37:33 Speaker_06
This is worst-case scenario. And I think all these people that would cry against the concept of Islamophobia really need to understand what that means and what you're talking about.

02:37:43 Speaker_06
And to say that that's an outrageous and ridiculous idea that's never going to take place, it's kind of already worked its way into some societies. It has. It has. And there are – is it Minnesota that has called to prayer? Like, is it Minneapolis?

02:37:59 Speaker_01
I don't know. I know there is a place in Minnesota, I believe, where they have prayer calls as a matter of local government. I do think that's happening.

02:38:07 Speaker_06
That starts getting real weird. Stuff like that starts getting real weird.

02:38:11 Speaker_06
And when you have people that are openly saying, our goal is, and they've talked about this in Toronto, like activists have said, our goal is to outbreed everyone who is not Muslim and vote it out and put Sharia law in place.

02:38:26 Speaker_01
That's very scary.

02:38:27 Speaker_06
Women have to wear burkas. This is how it works.

02:38:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, well, and that's I mean, that's what to me is so crazy about some of the hyper left-wing reaction to you know The idea that like somehow I want to force every man woman and child to go to my church is ridiculous I just don't want to do that.

02:38:42 Speaker_01
I've never had any interest in doing that and

02:38:45 Speaker_01
But where you see actual real religious tyranny is increasingly in Western societies, where you've had a large influx of immigrants who don't necessarily assimilate into Western values, but try to create, I think, a religious tyranny at the local level.

02:39:03 Speaker_01
And if you think that won't happen at a national level, you're crazy.

02:39:06 Speaker_06
Did you ever read Douglas Murray's book, The Strange Death of Europe?

02:39:10 Speaker_01
I haven't read the whole thing, but I've read it in bits and pieces. He's a smart guy.

02:39:13 Speaker_06
It's great, but he got attacked so hard for that, because he was really like an early sounder. He's the Paul Revere of this shit.

02:39:19 Speaker_01
Exactly right. Dude, one of the most controversial things I've ever said is, what is the first Islamist? Because it's important to separate. There are Muslims who are not Islamists. Islamists are like theocrats. Right.

02:39:32 Speaker_01
What is the first Islamist country that is going to have a nuclear weapon? And I sort of joked. I said maybe it's going to be the United Kingdom because they're so bad at assimilating

02:39:48 Speaker_01
sort of newer immigrants into their society, you have definitely communities in the UK, where local leaders are running explicitly on Sharia law and winning elections in cities that are in the United Kingdom, right? This is England.

02:40:03 Speaker_01
This is like where America came from, right? It's a bunch of English And I think that's a really good point. They certainly have an Islamic government, and that's the majority religion of the people.

02:40:26 Speaker_01
But Pakistan isn't going and saying, we need to like conquer the infidels, at least their government isn't. We need to conquer the infidels and force them to obey our laws.

02:40:34 Speaker_01
You see that more among some of the activists in the United Kingdom, maybe than you do in certain Arab countries. And that's crazy.

02:40:43 Speaker_06
It is crazy, but it goes along with this thing that we've been talking about. I think essentially people have sort of a built-in mode, a program in their mind that accepts religious doctrines, and these religious doctrines could be woke,

02:40:59 Speaker_01
It could be, you know, hardcore right-wing conservative Christian fundamentalism, or it could be Islamic doctrine, but we... Yeah, but this is why assimilation is so important, right, is that, look, I'm married to the daughter of immigrants.

02:41:15 Speaker_01
I do think that immigration can enrich this country. I do think that, you know, immigrants, many of them are bringing a lot to the table, but we have to be honest with ourselves that

02:41:27 Speaker_01
permitting 500,000 immigrants in a society like ours is much different than permitting 5 million or 50 million immigrants. And importantly, where are the immigrants coming from? What are their values? What are their economic skills?

02:41:41 Speaker_01
There's something- What's their criminal record? What's their criminal record? There's something very in sort of the modern, again, this is a new thing because this is not Bill Clinton liberalism.

02:41:51 Speaker_01
This is something that we're seeing today where they don't even want to talk about the quality and the backgrounds and the skills of people coming to our country.

02:41:59 Speaker_01
Somehow it's fundamentally racist to say, well, we don't want certain people of certain backgrounds to be in the United States of America. No, it's just common sense. I mean, let me sort of give you a very specific example, okay?

02:42:12 Speaker_01
So, you know, ask yourself, should America accept 100,000 immigrants from Mexico? Okay? Just in the abstract. Well, Mexico is a gigantic country with millions upon millions of people. Who are we talking about?

02:42:29 Speaker_01
Are we talking about people who speak English as a second language and don't have criminal backgrounds? Or are we talking about people who don't even read and write in Spanish and do have criminal backgrounds?

02:42:39 Speaker_01
Because those same groups of people, even though they come from the country we call Mexico, are going to assimilate and contribute to America's society much differently.

02:42:47 Speaker_01
There's something in the modern liberal mind that doesn't even allow you to ask the question, Who does America benefit from bringing into this country? And if the answer is we don't benefit, then why would we bring them into the country?

02:42:59 Speaker_06
Well, it's also the concept of being anti-open border somehow or another became attached instead of safety, it became attached to xenophobia, it became attached to racism.

02:43:13 Speaker_06
And when, you know, you confront people and say, do you know that Venezuela is literally opening their prisons and instructing people to just cross into America? Like, no.

02:43:24 Speaker_06
When you tell the one of the wildest ones, I think it was you were having a conversation with a woman where you're discussing the gangs in Aurora, Colorado that have taken.

02:43:34 Speaker_01
Yeah.

02:43:35 Speaker_06
And she was like, it's only a couple of buildings.

02:43:38 Speaker_01
That's your community. It's only a couple of apartment complexes right with hundreds of people that have been taken over by Venezuelan gangs I think Joe the right number Apartment complex is taken over by Venezuelan gangs is zero.

02:43:51 Speaker_01
It's in San Antonio too.

02:43:52 Speaker_06
It's happening. It's happening everywhere It's so crazy that people don't want to admit to this because if they do it's empowering the right Yeah, they think it's gonna help Donald Trump get elected.

02:44:03 Speaker_06
So they're turning a blind eye to dangerous criminals crossing the border with But no recourse, no tracking, you can't do anything about it.

02:44:12 Speaker_01
Well, you see this in some communities where because they're small towns, and because rapid migrant influx can happen very quickly, where the town population has been doubled. Okay, so you don't even have to assume people are criminals.

02:44:25 Speaker_01
What does it do to the local public school, when all of a sudden, 1000 newcomers show up that don't even speak English?

02:44:32 Speaker_01
What does it do to the hospital system when you now have thousands of people in a small healthcare system that are showing up to get emergency services because they don't have access otherwise to a doctor, and now the American citizens have to wait in line for seven hours to get to see a doctor because we've overwhelmed the local hospital system?

02:44:49 Speaker_01
What does it do to housing prices? We've seen this in a number of communities, including those that I represent in Ohio. When you bring in thousands upon thousands of people, you cannot build enough houses quickly enough.

02:44:59 Speaker_01
to accommodate that, so the cost of housing becomes unaffordable for American citizens. It is the craziest thing that we've seen in this country that you don't even allow people to talk about the effects of mass migration anymore.

02:45:13 Speaker_01
And that's why I think it's one of the reasons why Donald Trump is going to be elected president, or at least should be elected president, because he's one of the few guys who's saying, you know what? No, no, we're going to talk about this problem.

02:45:22 Speaker_01
Yes, some immigrants are good. Some immigrants are not good. And that is an obvious insight to anybody who knows human nature.

02:45:29 Speaker_06
What do you think is the goal behind allowing this to take place?

02:45:33 Speaker_06
Now, first of all, one of the things that Kamala Harris has said was that there was a bill that could have fixed the border problem, but that Donald Trump did not want it to take place because he wanted to keep this as a political talking point.

02:45:46 Speaker_01
Totally dishonest. Totally dishonest.

02:45:47 Speaker_06
What was the bill?

02:45:49 Speaker_01
Okay, here was the bill. What happened is – okay, let me talk about what the bill does first of all. Okay. Number one is it sets a maximum cap on the number of illegal immigrants that we can have before the border shuts down.

02:46:04 Speaker_01
That maximum cap is 2 million illegal aliens per year. It's like 1.85 million to be more precise. That's number one it did.

02:46:12 Speaker_01
Number two, it codified what's called catch and release, where a person comes into our country, they're an illegal immigrant, but they say, no, no, no, I'm not an illegal immigrant. I'm an asylum seeker. And so their claim for asylum gets adjudicated.

02:46:25 Speaker_01
But because there's a backlog, because we have so many, their claim isn't going to be adjudicated for 15 years. So rather than having that person wait in Mexico, we give them a work permit.

02:46:36 Speaker_01
and we give them legal status and we let them come into the United States of America, that's called catch and release.

02:46:41 Speaker_01
Donald Trump's policy was you have to wait in Mexico, we're not going to catch you and then release you into the country for 15 years. It codified that.

02:46:48 Speaker_01
In other words, even if Donald Trump became president, and this is why he really hated it, is that he would not be able to undo catch and release if he won the election. It would be codified into American law. Third thing it did.

02:47:00 Speaker_01
nothing on the border wall, nothing on an immigration system called parole, which is supposed to be a case-by-case, you grant parole to people who are fleeing tyranny.

02:47:11 Speaker_01
But Harris has used parole to the tune of millions upon millions, mass parole, whole categories of country have been paroled into the United States. It didn't do anything to solve that problem.

02:47:22 Speaker_01
So it wasn't a border security bill, it was an amnesty bill. Now, in addition to what I just said, it also gave some table scraps to Border Patrol. And that is what allows them to hinge onto that one thing and to say it's a border security bill.

02:47:37 Speaker_01
No, no, no, no, no. It was a mass amnesty bill. It would have made the border problem 10 times worse. And that's why they ultimately pushed it. And that's why Republicans fought against it. By the way, like six Democrats

02:47:49 Speaker_01
voted against that piece of legislation because they thought it was kind of a disaster. So it was not a bipartisan border bill.

02:47:55 Speaker_01
In fact, it was much more bipartisan, the opposition to the legislation, but it has allowed Kamala Harris to go around and dishonestly claim that she cares about the southern border, even though when she came into office, they bragged about undoing all of Donald Trump's successful border policies.

02:48:09 Speaker_01
They did exactly that. And then we had the massive migrant invasion that we've seen over the last three years.

02:48:14 Speaker_06
And I think it was good on you in the debate with Tim Walz when they fact-checked you.

02:48:19 Speaker_06
They tried to fact-check you and say that this has always been in place, and you stepped up and said, no, no, no, this app is new, and this app was specifically used for shipping, and now they're using it to schedule people to illegally come into the country.

02:48:34 Speaker_06
Here's the question. Why? Why is this happening? What do you think?

02:48:38 Speaker_06
I mean obviously it's speculation a little bit, but what do you think the motivation of allowing this to take place and the disproportionate number of people that have moved to swing states, which is also like a little suspicious?

02:48:51 Speaker_01
So depends on how many tinfoil hats do you have in this room? I got a lot, dude. I got a wardrobe. We can get real serious about this real quick or pretty crazy very quickly. Look, I think what is obvious is – and I've seen this in the halls of Congress.

02:49:05 Speaker_01
I've seen it very explicitly. You talk about lobbying and we obviously talked about in the context of other industries. There is a massive corporate lobby for cheap labor in the United States of America.

02:49:14 Speaker_01
And that is, I think, the main thing that's going on. Think about this. If you've got millions of illegal aliens – okay, let me tell you a story. In 2017, 2018, when I was in the private sector, I was at a business conference dinner.

02:49:28 Speaker_01
And I was seated next to the CEO of one of the largest hotel chains in America. This is, I think, probably 2018. And the guy is going on and on about how much he hates Donald Trump. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

02:49:40 Speaker_01
Like, why do you hate Donald Trump so much? Because, again, I was sort of a Trump skeptic in 2015. And at this point, I was kind of starting to really get on the Trump train. And he said, well,

02:49:50 Speaker_01
The reason I hate Donald Trump, he says, is because Donald Trump's border policies have cut down the number of illegal immigrants.

02:49:59 Speaker_01
And because I can't pay illegal immigrants under the table anymore, I have to pay American workers and they want much higher wages. And I was like, this guy just admitted it. I was like, holy shit, this guy just admitted it. That's a crime.

02:50:09 Speaker_01
That is straight up Monopoly man evil shit that this guy admitted to. And I was like, you know, my wife, who's very apolitical, she was actually at the dinner with me and she's like, come again? You just said you don't want

02:50:25 Speaker_01
Americans to get decent wages, like that is the best argument for Donald Trump's immigration policy, is that American workers are getting higher wages. And this is why this corporate CEO hates it.

02:50:36 Speaker_01
So whatever the industry is, you've got a lot of people who want cheap labor, and they don't want to pay American workers higher wages. That's a big part of it. I do think there's also a power dynamic to it.

02:50:46 Speaker_01
In particular, I think Kamala Harris and the Democrats, they want to give these millions upon millions of illegal aliens the right to vote. They want to legalize them. They want to make it easier for them to participate in our elections.

02:50:57 Speaker_01
And that means fundamentally the end of American democracy. because you're talking about 25 million people here.

02:51:02 Speaker_01
If Kamala Harris gives 10 million of those people legal status and allows them to vote in American elections, then, you know, say 70-30, they go Democrat, Republicans will never win a national election in this country in my lifetime.

02:51:15 Speaker_06
And the only way to get them on your side would be the Republicans offer the same services and maybe even be more generous in letting illegals in. Exactly. I mean, you would have to literally beat them at their own game.

02:51:31 Speaker_06
Like, I'm going to give you a free house.

02:51:32 Speaker_01
Yeah, no, I mean, yeah. Lifetime's probably overstating it, but you'd have to – it would take 30 years for the Republicans to get to a point where we could even compete with these newcomers.

02:51:42 Speaker_01
But again, it will have degraded the voting power of the people who have the legal right to be here. And it will essentially turn these states blue forever, the same way they've done California. Exactly.

02:51:52 Speaker_01
And we saw this, and look, I'm like a Reagan guy, right? I'm a conservative Republican. But Reagan screwed up a lot. He screwed up mental health in this country. People don't talk nearly enough about that.

02:52:01 Speaker_06
The amnesty thing he really screwed up.

02:52:02 Speaker_01
The amnesty thing he really screwed up. Yeah. And people always say, well, you know, Ronald Reagan, you know, critics of Donald Trump will say, well, look at how Reagan talked about immigration.

02:52:13 Speaker_01
Because of what Ronald Reagan did at the 1986 amnesty, California is now effectively a permanently blue state.

02:52:20 Speaker_06
Except when Arnold won.

02:52:22 Speaker_01
But Arnold ran as a super-moderate Republican. He was a major celebrity, right? He was at the height of his celebrity power, and he still won barely, even though California had been mismanaged.

02:52:34 Speaker_01
California is a one-party state because of Ronald Reagan's amnesty. Trevor Burrus And that's the fear, is that the entire country could become one party.

02:52:42 Speaker_01
Now, it also, you may not appreciate this, but even if you don't give people the right to vote, it really distorts congressional apportionment and then the electoral college. You know how this works? Yes, I do. But explain it to people, please. Okay.

02:52:54 Speaker_01
So how many, you know, we have 435 congressional seats. Who – the way that you draw those congressional districts is that you try to draw them evenly based on population so that everybody has equal representation, right?

02:53:07 Speaker_01
One person, one vote, fundamental principle of American law. But you don't just count the American citizens. You also count the illegal aliens. And so, for example, the state of Ohio lost a congressional seat in the last census.

02:53:19 Speaker_01
and states that have high illegal immigrant populations picked up congressional seats.

02:53:24 Speaker_01
So you're actually taking away congressional representation from American citizens and giving it to illegal aliens, even if you don't give them the right to vote, you're still destroying the voting power of American citizens.

02:53:35 Speaker_06
Because it's based on population.

02:53:37 Speaker_01
Because it's based on population, including illegal immigrants.

02:53:39 Speaker_06
Is there a way to change it so that it's only based on legal American citizens?

02:53:44 Speaker_01
Well, Donald Trump tried a proposal that Democrats went nuts over and was litigated in the courts, so we would have to try again, that would ask citizenship status during the U.S. Census.

02:53:58 Speaker_01
The idea being that if you ask more people their citizenship status, you get fewer people who are answering that question.

02:54:05 Speaker_01
I think that we should make it, and I do think this would require an act of Congress, but I think that it would be constitutional, is we should just say that illegal aliens are not counted for purposes of congressional representation.

02:54:17 Speaker_06
Yeah.

02:54:18 Speaker_01
Democrats would call that racist, but it's just common sense policy.

02:54:21 Speaker_06
Well, especially if it's been shown that you're manipulating it by moving more people to these places. And even if they're not legal citizens and they can't vote, it still counts as congressional seats. Correct. That's kind of crazy.

02:54:33 Speaker_06
That's exactly right. The one that drives me the most crazy is this idea that somehow or another it's discriminatory to require ID to vote. I've tried to look at this from the most charitable position outside of it.

02:54:50 Speaker_06
It only makes sense if you're trying to cheat. That's exactly right. You need an ID for everything. You need an ID to rent a car.

02:54:58 Speaker_01
Well, you know, it's basically illegal now in California to ask for voter ID. Which is crazy. Which is totally insane.

02:55:04 Speaker_01
But, you know, my view, and I'm sure you've got many, many listeners in the great state of California, the next time you're pulled over by a police officer, just tell them that you're on your way to vote.

02:55:16 Speaker_04
I mean, think about this.

02:55:19 Speaker_01
But you can't – if you can't require people to show voter ID, then I think you're inviting fraud into your system.

02:55:25 Speaker_01
And there's also something implicitly very racist about this because what they say is voter ID means that black people aren't going to vote. Well, number one, if you look at polls

02:55:36 Speaker_01
The same level of support for voter ID exists in the black community as in the white community. It's about 75, 80 percent of blacks, 75, 80 percent of whites support voter ID. But they're basically saying that black people can't get identification.

02:55:48 Speaker_01
When they say that voter ID is racist, they're implicitly saying black people can't get identification. I think that's an actual racist concept.

02:55:57 Speaker_01
I actually assume that my fellow – or that black citizens are my fellow Americans and they can do the same thing that every other citizen can do, which is get identification.

02:56:05 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's fundamentally just gaslighting.

02:56:07 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's right.

02:56:09 Speaker_06
That's all it is. It's just you're trying hard to make your point because you want people to be able to vote that maybe shouldn't be voting.

02:56:15 Speaker_06
And then there's all these lawsuits where they're counting votes that they know to be illegitimate, or they're saying that there's a certain amount of people that are in the system that they want to keep in there. Which is crazy.

02:56:27 Speaker_06
So you're saying you want people that shouldn't be allowed to vote to vote?

02:56:30 Speaker_01
No. They say that they don't want illegal aliens or illegal voters to vote.

02:56:35 Speaker_01
The Harris administration right now is litigating a lawsuit against the governor of Virginia because the governor of Virginia, using a state law, kicked about 1,500 people, or maybe it was 6,500, but it was some number of people off the Virginia voter rolls because they checked a box

02:56:52 Speaker_01
that said they were non-citizen. Well, if you're not citizen, you can't be on the voter rolls. So he kicked all of the non-citizens off the voter rolls. Harris is suing Glenn Youngkin.

02:57:03 Speaker_01
The Department of Justice under Kamala Harris is suing him to ensure that those voters go back on the voter rolls.

02:57:08 Speaker_06
There's no argument.

02:57:10 Speaker_01
There's no argument for this. There's no argument for this other than you want to facilitate cheating.

02:57:15 Speaker_06
But the fact that the left has no problem with this because they just want to win is insane.

02:57:19 Speaker_01
But who's going to hold their feet to the fire? Who's going to tell the honest truth?

02:57:22 Speaker_01
The American media has barely even covered the fact that in the middle of a very consequential presidential election, Kamala Harris's Department of Justice is suing to keep illegal voters on the voter rolls.

02:57:37 Speaker_06
It's crazy. It's wild. So it's like for Trump to win, he has to win by an enormous margin. He has to overcome a lot of this shenanigans.

02:57:47 Speaker_01
Well, as President Trump says, we want to make it too big to rig. Look, I encourage all of your listeners, whether you agree with us on all the issues or not, if you agree with censorship, then vote Kamala Harris.

02:57:58 Speaker_01
And if you think Americans should be able to say what they want to say, then get out there and vote. Vote early, vote by mail.

02:58:03 Speaker_01
That's obviously part of the reason why I'm here is I want to get people out there to vote because I do think that we need to overwhelm the system with so many voters that we ensure that we get the representative government that we actually deserve as a country.

02:58:17 Speaker_01
And that's not going to happen unless people get out there and vote.

02:58:19 Speaker_06
One of the things that I think is an important issue that kind of gets put aside is

02:58:25 Speaker_06
I know a lot of veterans in particular and a lot of people with some severe trauma that have had psychedelic therapy, and they've had to go to other countries to do it. They've done some of it illegally in America.

02:58:39 Speaker_06
But I know far too many guys who have had PTSD, who have had an incredible experience and been alleviated of all these.

02:58:50 Speaker_01
And this helped them? It helped them tremendously.

02:58:53 Speaker_06
Is it like MDMA or is it? MDMA was what MAPS was using. They were running these studies and they got close to FDA approval, but now they're being sent back to say they have to do more studies.

02:59:06 Speaker_06
But the problem is like you can't really do double-blind placebo-controlled studies on MDMA. Either you're on it or you're not on it.

02:59:12 Speaker_01
It's pretty obvious. Yeah, sugar pills don't have the same effect.

02:59:16 Speaker_06
Yeah, it just doesn't but the therapy for people that are suffering from severe PTSD has been incredibly beneficial They've shown that with the map studies, but they've also shown it with like anecdotally I know a bunch of different guys that have gone down to Mexico and had psilocybin journeys and all these different things where they've encountered

02:59:37 Speaker_06
these experiences that have made them sort of rethink who they are, alleviated them of a lot of the stress and a lot of the trauma that they've experienced, and given them peace. And the concept of Schedule 1 is that there's no medical benefit.

02:59:53 Speaker_06
And if these people are experiencing, first of all, cessation of smoking, people that have had issues with addiction, Ibogaine treatments, another one that they've found, which is not something that anyone would ever abuse recreationally.

03:00:07 Speaker_06
I've never done it, but apparently it's an excruciating experience. But the rate of curing addiction is tremendous from it. These things have been denied People have had denied access to it because of this scheduling issue.

03:00:23 Speaker_06
Huh like There's a like we discussed it yesterday on the podcast like the LD 50 rate was like lethal dose at 50% is Impossible to achieve with psilocybin and yet it's still illegal and that there's all these people that have reported psilocybin mushrooms, right?

03:00:40 Speaker_06
Yes, and you know, but you can synthesize it doesn't have to be see but the the scheduling of these things, and particularly like marijuana.

03:00:50 Speaker_06
Like marijuana is legal on a state level with, I think, almost half the country now, if not more, but yet federally illegal.

03:00:58 Speaker_06
And if you go to the history of why it was federally illegal in the first place, it coincides with what happened with prohibition of alcohol. Right after prohibition of alcohol,

03:01:08 Speaker_06
They turned their eyes to marijuana and there was a lot of political influence by Harry Anslinger and William Randolph Hearst and there's a lot of Maneuvering and that's where the reefer madness films came up and all this propaganda stuff It was to make it illegal essentially to to make the textile the hemp illegal interesting

03:01:28 Speaker_06
There's a long history to it. It's basically more about the commodity of hemp than it was really about the drug itself. In fact, the term marijuana was never used for cannabis, which has been used for thousands and thousands of years.

03:01:42 Speaker_06
The term marijuana was created by William Randolph Hearst and put in Hearst newspapers. Originally, marijuana was a Mexican slang word for wild tobacco.

03:01:53 Speaker_06
So they started writing these stories about blacks and Mexicans smoking this new drug, marijuana, and raping white women.

03:02:02 Speaker_01
Most of this was- I had no idea this history.

03:02:04 Speaker_06
It's so crazy. The story is so nuts. But it all came about because of an invention called the decorticator. And the decorticator is an invention that allows them to economically and effectively process hemp fiber without slave labor.

03:02:19 Speaker_06
So when the cotton gin came along, people stopped using hemp as much because it's much more difficult to work with. And they started using cotton for clothing. But before that, they'd use hemp. And this is non-psychoactive hemp.

03:02:31 Speaker_06
Yeah, it makes a superior paper. It does.

03:02:34 Speaker_06
There's there's a bunch of uses for it completely outside of the psychoactive aspect of it William Brand there was the cover of was it popular science magazine Popular Mechanics magazine hemp the new billion-dollar crop and it was all about this invention So then the propaganda machine goes into full scale and then this this was in the 1930s Okay, so they start here.

03:02:55 Speaker_06
It is the new billion-dollar crop 1938 and this is because of this invention the decorticator So it solves a problem. We can see it there. Solves a problem. More than 6,000 years old hemp, a crop that will not compete with other American products.

03:03:07 Speaker_06
Instead, it will displace imports of raw material and manufactured products produced by underpaid Cooley and peasant labor will provide thousands of jobs for American workers throughout the land.

03:03:16 Speaker_06
So everybody was really high on hemp as a commodity because of this new machine that you could process hemp fiber with, where you can make much more superior paper, superior clothing. Like it's like canvas, literally the Mona Lisa was painted on hemp.

03:03:31 Speaker_06
The first draft, the Declaration of Independence, was written on hemp. They used to use it for paper back then. So then William Brandolph Hearst, who owns Hearst Publications, also owns all these paper mills and forests filled with trees.

03:03:44 Speaker_06
So they, to combat this industry... And so we're still trapped under this propaganda that was distributed in the 1930s by incredibly powerful people. And this is why it's illegal on the federal level.

03:03:59 Speaker_06
And even though you have medical marijuana that's been showed to help people with chemotherapy and wasting disease, help people that have appetite problems and people in chronic pain, it's still listed as a Schedule I drug federally, which to me is unconscionable.

03:04:14 Speaker_06
It doesn't make any sense.

03:04:18 Speaker_01
Like, first of all, we're not trying to be clear, because I'm speaking as a vice presidential candidate, we're not trying to throw people in jail for smoking weed. That's like very much something that we're not interested in doing.

03:04:30 Speaker_01
What is, I mean, the one thing that I have, like, my attitude on this stuff is kind of live and let live, like, keep it in your home. I don't like smelling it when I take my kids to the park, right? Yeah, that's not good.

03:04:41 Speaker_01
Daddy, what's that skunk doing here? Yeah, exactly. But like, you know, keep it at home. I don't want to throw people in prison. That's not what we're trying to do. I don't think you should be drunk at the park either, right? Exactly. Exactly.

03:04:50 Speaker_01
Same exact principle. The thing that I wonder about is if you, you know, I do, there's a part of me that worries a little bit about kids doing a lot of this stuff.

03:05:03 Speaker_01
And I wonder, you know, to your point about consent and the brains development and all these things, I really worry about, do you have an increase in usage among minors?

03:05:11 Speaker_01
And so what I'd like to get is, is some sort of legal regime that, you know, again, It's not like criminally prosecuting or prosecuting at all people for smoking a joint, but also where we can actually ensure that it's kept out of public spaces.

03:05:24 Speaker_01
That's kind of my attitude towards it. And I think that's the right approach. I mean, on the psychedelic thing, what is – like what would need to be done? Because I know, to be clear, I know absolutely nothing about this.

03:05:36 Speaker_01
So this is me, you know, asking a question, not committing to some public policy. You have to be careful with this stuff, especially six days from an election. But I had never heard about, you know, because I'm a veteran, too.

03:05:47 Speaker_01
I served four years in the United States Marine Corps, went to Iraq, went to Haiti once. And is there any like – like what is the pathway, I guess, or what do you think should happen for veterans accessing psychedelics?

03:06:02 Speaker_06
Well, there's so many anecdotal stories about veterans experiencing relief that I think it should be available to them, especially veterans. I think that we put our veterans through... But is it like an FDA thing?

03:06:15 Speaker_01
Is it possible for them to get the therapy?

03:06:17 Speaker_06
Yes. And it's also the way it's scheduled.

03:06:20 Speaker_01
you know it's because it's schedule one isn't it like like if it had a medical use presumably you would get it off of schedule one yes so why aren't we i'm just fascinated by this is the first time i've heard about this like why aren't we testing whether there is yeah fair point you can't do a double blind placebo controlled study but you can definitely still study whether this helps people or not what why aren't we doing that or are we doing that i'm just not aware of it

03:06:45 Speaker_06
Well, we're definitely not doing it. I mean, there's been some research. John Hopkins did some research on psychedelics, and they found similar benefits. There's also dangers, like anything that has profound effects on the human mind.

03:06:59 Speaker_06
There's certain people that are very vulnerable, and those people should not be taking these things. There's people that have a hard time with regular reality. They're barely hanging on regularly.

03:07:08 Speaker_06
And but I think the people that are not should have access to that because I believe in freedom and I believe in the freedom to explore things that have great benefits.

03:07:18 Speaker_06
And I keep going back to veterans because I think we require an insane thing of them. We take regular people who live in civilized society.

03:07:27 Speaker_06
We send them over to Afghanistan and Iraq and have them engaged in the absolutely most brutal things that people do, which is war. They see their friends blown apart. They get shot.

03:07:39 Speaker_06
They see people die They have to kill people and then they come back here and then they're supposed to just acclimate. Yeah, and there's no guidelines There's no way to do it.

03:07:47 Speaker_06
There's no no one can coach you through it and a lot of these guys wind up killing themselves and it's it's a very high amount and You know Sean Ryan you've done his show.

03:07:57 Speaker_01
Yeah, I Love Sean Ryan.

03:07:58 Speaker_06
Love Sean Ryan. Sean Ryan was talking about the experience that it had with him. Completely changed his life. He stopped drinking. He became a much more compassionate, sensitive person.

03:08:08 Speaker_01
We talked about like foreign policy and veteran stuff, but we didn't talk about this.

03:08:11 Speaker_06
The guy's a Navy SEAL. I mean, he's seen a lot of shit.

03:08:13 Speaker_01
He's seen a lot of shit. Yeah.

03:08:15 Speaker_06
I mean, it's just, that's the job. And you come back over here and you're supposed to just be normal and there's no help. At least for those people.

03:08:22 Speaker_01
I mean, look, my attitude is we should help veterans get the mental health treatment they need and be less screwed up by all this stuff. We should be doing whatever we can. I just don't understand why aren't we?

03:08:39 Speaker_01
Pharma lobbying thing is I'm sure that's screwed up thing like because I'm always wondering like what why are we not actually solving problems? And this is a problem.

03:08:47 Speaker_01
I know nothing about Sorry, I know a lot about veteran suicides and veteran mental health this this proposed solution is

03:08:55 Speaker_06
Like literally the first time you could get real cynical as to what's the resistance you could say the companies that make psychotropic drugs SSRIs and the like and companies that have a vested interest in continuing to sell these things would not want something that causes people to have a profound psychological change that doesn't require them to be on these things anymore and

03:09:17 Speaker_06
There could be an impact in that. But I think there's also a lot of ignorance.

03:09:20 Speaker_01
Yeah. Have you read this book, Bad Therapy? No. Okay. It's good. I've heard it. It's good. Yeah, I haven't read it though. So, the mental health thing in the United States is really, really worrisome.

03:09:33 Speaker_01
Because, you know, when I talk about, obviously we have a big gun violence problem in the United States of America, and I talk about mental health, because obviously that's a part of what's going on here.

03:09:42 Speaker_01
It's what they say is, well, every other country has mental health, meaning advocates of strict gun laws say every other country has mental health problems, but they don't have the same gun violence problem that we do. It's actually not totally true.

03:09:55 Speaker_01
If you look at like SSRI prescriptions, selective serotonin, reuptake inhibitors, it's like Prozac, that category of mental health therapeutics. We take something like six times as much as our peer countries economically. So clearly there's something.

03:10:11 Speaker_01
with mental health treatment in the United States that is very, very broken.

03:10:14 Speaker_06
There's also a direct correlation between school shooters, mass shooters, and SSRIs.

03:10:19 Speaker_01
Really?

03:10:20 Speaker_06
Yeah. Oh yeah. Most of the people that have committed mass shootings, and I'm not talking about gang shootings, but a bunch of them were on psychotropic drugs. And everybody wants to blame drugs. Oh yeah.

03:10:34 Speaker_06
Google it because you can find out what the numbers are. I know the Columbine kids were on psychotropic drugs. I know there's been a ton of school shooters.

03:10:41 Speaker_01
You mean like prescribed? Yes. You're talking about people who smoke weed.

03:10:44 Speaker_06
No, no, no. Prescribed psychotropic drugs. prescribed psychiatric drugs, and that if you bring that up, you are taking away from this argument they want to say where they want to blame everything on the guns.

03:10:59 Speaker_06
It's all about gun control, and we need more gun control. The gun is a tool. There's more guns in this country than there are human beings.

03:11:08 Speaker_01
I made this argument at the debate.

03:11:11 Speaker_01
The idea that you can gun regulate your way out of this problem is ridiculous because we have so many firearms in the United States of America that even if I bought into the gun control argument, you're never going to be able to get sufficient guns off the streets.

03:11:26 Speaker_01
So it's ridiculous. So we have to actually go after some of the root causes here. It also ignores, I mean, like Finland, for example, has a lot of guns. does not have nearly the same problem with these mass shooters that we do.

03:11:39 Speaker_01
I'd be interested to see what their mental health drug usage rate is too.

03:11:44 Speaker_06
Did you ever see Ted Nugent debate Piers Morgan on gun violence?

03:11:49 Speaker_01
No, I never did. That's pretty good.

03:11:51 Speaker_06
It's really good.

03:11:52 Speaker_01
Ted's a smart guy.

03:11:53 Speaker_06
He's a very smart guy. But Ted actually knows the statistics. So when Pierce was bringing up all the mass shootings and all the gun violence shootings, Ted said, do you know what they really are? Do you know how many of them are suicide?

03:12:07 Speaker_06
Do you know how many of them are gang violence? Do you know how many of them are cops shooting bad guys? Do you know how many of them are actually mass shooters?

03:12:18 Speaker_01
But yeah, yeah, I did know that actually that when we talk about gun violence problem What we're really talking about primarily is gang violence. Yeah, right.

03:12:26 Speaker_01
That's where that's where a lot of the gun violence I think a majority of the gun violence is coming from which is not to say it's not a problem, right? But it's not the same problem that obviously gathers most of the headlines

03:12:36 Speaker_06
Right. And this idea that just getting guns out of people's hands, you got to bail?

03:12:40 Speaker_01
We're good. I'm good if you are.

03:12:41 Speaker_06
Yeah. The idea that you're going to take guns away from everyone, you're going to solve the problem. It's like, you're still going to have people that are out of their mind.

03:12:51 Speaker_06
They want to commit violence and they're gonna find another way to do it like we've we've had other ways that people have Killed a lot of people because they were sick. Yeah, because they're out of their mind That's right.

03:13:01 Speaker_06
And the fact that no one wants to look at this connection between psychiatric drugs and mass shootings is kind of insane Have you found anything that shows like the data on that's pretty wild. I

03:13:16 Speaker_03
No proof. There's a paper. That's what I'm trying to find.

03:13:19 Speaker_01
So that time is that central time, right? It's 1219 right now We've probably got like 15 20 more minutes because I have to do this event with Tulsi in Pennsylvania. Yeah When is this going to air? Tomorrow? Or today? Today? Tonight. We'll air it tonight.

03:13:35 Speaker_01
What are you doing with Tulsi? We're doing Veterans Town Hall, as a matter of fact. I think we're doing it in Western PA, but I need to check. I don't know where I'm going from day to day. She obviously cares a lot about veterans issues.

03:13:48 Speaker_01
The most important veterans issue is, yeah, the mental health thing really matters, but it's that we shouldn't be sending them to stupid wars.

03:13:54 Speaker_06
Well, that was one of the most insane things that Hillary Clinton did when she tried to say that she was a Russian agent. That was so much bullshit, man.

03:14:03 Speaker_05
That is so crazy. This woman served overseas twice. She was a congresswoman for eight years, and she just decided to call her a Russian agent.

03:14:13 Speaker_01
You're a Russian agent. Hillary Clinton, by the way, who's not served in the military at all, at least her husband and her daughter haven't served in the military at all, so her immediate family hasn't. Give me a break on this.

03:14:23 Speaker_06
She was deployed in medical unions. I mean, that's literally where she got that streak of gray in her hair.

03:14:28 Speaker_01
Tulsi is a legitimate servant to the United States of America, and the accusation that she's not comes from people who want to send Americans to wars that have no connection to our national interest.

03:14:40 Speaker_01
I mean, this is the biggest difference, I think, between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump is actually foreign policy. And there are three issues, man. I mean, I've learned this in my own brief political career.

03:14:51 Speaker_01
There are three issues where you are not allowed to challenge the establishment. One is trade. You have to be pro-free trade. Everything is good.

03:15:01 Speaker_01
Let as many Chinese slave labor-made products into your country as possible, even if it destroys native industries. That is, number one, the most important issue to our establishment. Number two most important issue is immigration.

03:15:14 Speaker_01
And the number three most important issue is foreign policy. And maybe actually foreign policy is the biggest, because if you criticize the wars and you criticize American foreign entanglements, that is where people get really fired up.

03:15:27 Speaker_01
What is the root of that, you think? I think some of it's financial, right? I mean, Liz Cheney wants her board seat at Raytheon and everywhere else. That's part of what's driving it.

03:15:36 Speaker_01
Of course, her dad was a major owner or I believe that he owned a pretty significant stake in Halliburton. But I actually think – I don't want to overstate that because I actually don't think that's most of what's going on.

03:15:48 Speaker_01
This is maybe a background view that I have that I should interrogate a little bit more. But I tend to think that people aren't expressly financially motivated. I think they're much better at rationalizing their financial motivation as somehow good.

03:16:02 Speaker_01
So I don't think Liz Cheney, to be fair, even though I can't stand her, wakes up and says, oh, I want to get rich, so I'm going to support the Ukraine war so that Raytheon can continue making all these missiles.

03:16:12 Speaker_01
I think what's going on is they have convinced themselves that the post-World War II American consensus, this entire idea that we're going to remake the entire world in America's image, they think that that is the most important, the most valuable project.

03:16:28 Speaker_01
And they don't care. They're going to do it as much as they can, even though I think it's run its course. I think we should have learned in Iraq, we can't turn everybody into the United States of America, nor should we want to.

03:16:38 Speaker_01
But these guys can't quite give up on it. It's just a powerful psychological motivation. You go back to when the Soviet Union fell, right, when the Berlin Wall fell in the late 80s, early 90s.

03:16:50 Speaker_01
There was this sense among American leaders, right, Bill Clinton takes over in 1992, that we had reached what was called at the time the end of history, that Western liberal democracy was going to triumph, everybody was going to be like us, there was going to be no more ethnic conflict, no more religious conflict, no more regional conflict.

03:17:09 Speaker_01
And I think these guys bought the idea so profoundly that they can't really wake up and recognize that for the past 40 years we've tried their theories and their theories haven't worked.

03:17:22 Speaker_06
There's also the craziest thing that happened to me during this campaign was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris and the left went crazy. Yay, Dick Cheney's on our side.

03:17:31 Speaker_01
That's the craziest thing. How much do you hate Donald Trump?

03:17:37 Speaker_06
How much do you hate Donald Trump that you're willing to choose Dick Cheney over him? And that Dick Cheney is all of a sudden a good guy? The engineer behind the Iraq war that's responsible for how many people dead?

03:17:49 Speaker_01
Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Arabs, certainly thousands of Americans. The biggest world historical catastrophe, I think, in the history of the United States of America was the Iraq War.

03:17:59 Speaker_01
Because unlike other mistakes that we've made, it was truly unforced. There was no reason in hindsight to do it. There was nothing that we got out of it. We lost I mean, so many innocent people. We spent trillions of dollars.

03:18:13 Speaker_01
We, I think, destroyed the social cohesion that we had gotten after 9-11, because remember, like, after 9-11, everybody was an American. We were all on the same team, Democrat or Republican. We destroyed that.

03:18:25 Speaker_01
And we created in Iraq, effectively, a proxy of Iran, which it's telling now that 20 years later,

03:18:31 Speaker_01
The biggest foreign policy threat that we face in the Middle East is Iran, and we created a massive ally of the Iranians and the Iraqis, and none of the people who actually presided over that disaster are saying, oh, maybe we really, really screwed up, and maybe we should reevaluate some of our assumptions.

03:18:51 Speaker_06
There's only a few days left. How much of a chance do you think Trump has to win this? Are you confident or is it close?

03:19:02 Speaker_01
I'm confident. It is close, but I am confident because it's close, but it's close in a way that favors us, right? The undecided voters tend to be voters who are more aligned with us. I think the early voting data looks really good. I think that

03:19:17 Speaker_01
You know, people just fundamentally don't want to do more of the same and Kamala Harris is more of the same. I think some of our arguments that Kamala Harris is the voter, is the candidate of censorship, is starting to really break through.

03:19:28 Speaker_01
But, you know, to your listeners, if you agree with what I've said here, get out there and vote.

03:19:33 Speaker_01
Because, like, there is something to be said for me and Donald Trump actually sat and had a conversation and, you know, hopefully I didn't make a complete fool of myself, but they just don't do that.

03:19:44 Speaker_01
Like, why would we make a person who's terrified of talking about what she wants to do and what she believes, why would we make her president of the United States?

03:19:51 Speaker_01
The only way to make that not happen is to vote for me and Trump on or before November the 5th. So it's very important.

03:20:00 Speaker_01
I feel good about it, but I don't feel great about it because there are a lot of ways in which Democrats are going to try to motivate their base down the stretch. There are a lot of ways in which, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put it past them.

03:20:11 Speaker_01
Maybe they do try to cheat. I don't know exactly what it looks like in five or six days, but I know that the best thing that we can do to prevent that from happening is to get out there, make our voices heard.

03:20:20 Speaker_06
All right.

03:20:22 Speaker_01
Thanks, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Good to see you, Joe. Good to see you, too.

03:20:25 Speaker_06
All right. Bye, everybody.