#2220 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast The Joe Rogan Experience

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Episode: #2220 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 03:35:57

Episode Shownotes

Francis Foster is a writer and stand-up comic. Konstantin Kisin is a political commentator and author of "An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West." They are the hosts of the podcast and YouTube program "Triggernometry.

" 

www.francisfoster.co.uk www.konstantinkisin.com

https://www.youtube.com/@triggerpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_02
The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06 Speaker_10
Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night or day. I'm like, I love these guys so much too bad.

00:00:21 Speaker_10
It's just there's nothing going on Well, I heard you you might have needed to cancel on us to get Kamala Harris on I was not gonna do that I would have had to I knew you guys flew from England and I wasn't gonna cancel on you because I she had an opportunity to come in someone's You could look at this and you say are you being a diva?

00:00:40 Speaker_10
I? But she had an opportunity to come here when she was in Texas, and I literally gave them an open invitation I said anytime I said if she's done at 10 o'clock. I'll come back here at 10 o'clock I'll do it at 9 in the morning.

00:00:51 Speaker_10
I'll do it at 10 p.m.. I'll do it at midnight She's up.

00:00:54 Speaker_01
She wants to you know drink a Red Bull fucking party on yeah But I think this idea that you're being a diva silly because you're asking her you're offering her the opportunity to do exactly what the other candidate did right and

00:01:05 Speaker_10
Well, she actually reached out when she found out that he was coming on. So their camp reached out to me. So I said, great, I would love to talk to him. But it was very difficult to tie it down.

00:01:17 Speaker_10
And a lot of they wanted to travel and see that the thing is, like, you can't if I go somewhere, then there's going to be other people in the room.

00:01:25 Speaker_10
And they want to control a lot of things, I'm sure, according to the Brett Breyer interview on Fox, like people were waving him off. That's a distraction.

00:01:34 Speaker_10
People in the room, like my whole goal with her and with him is just talk, just have a conversation like a human being. You find out things about people. You get a sense of them at least, a real sense. That was it. I don't give a fuck what we talk about.

00:01:48 Speaker_10
I really don't. I just want to talk to you. Who the fuck are you?

00:01:53 Speaker_11
Do you think they think that you're on his side and they're more wary of you?

00:01:57 Speaker_10
I don't know. Just because of my appearance, there's always been this assumption that I'm some right-wing MAGA guy. I was a Bernie supporter. I am a politically homeless person, for sure. I always considered myself a left-wing person.

00:02:15 Speaker_10
I never thought I would ever vote right-wing. But then the tides of culture shifted in a very bizarre way. And it just made me, over time, much more aware of what this stuff is really all about.

00:02:29 Speaker_10
Because what this stuff is really all about is just these natural human behavior patterns and these tribal instincts that we have. And it overpowers all discussions. It overpowers what's good for the collective group. It overpowers everything.

00:02:47 Speaker_10
It's just people pick a fucking team and then whatever that team says, they can do no harm. They will do their best to marginalize the horrible effects of the furthest extreme version of that, whether it's Antifa or the Proud Boys, they'll minimalize.

00:03:06 Speaker_10
It's the same thing, man. It's the same. If you look at what's going on with the liberals right now, so progressives are, they want the war in Ukraine to be funded.

00:03:15 Speaker_10
They want to censor speech online, and they want to give the World Health Organization, which is deeply influenced by big pharma, including the FDA, deeply influenced. The revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies is legendary.

00:03:30 Speaker_10
And they want to give them control over what we take and what we don't take. That's crazy. And that doesn't make sense, because that's not what the liberals were when I was a kid. My parents were hippies.

00:03:43 Speaker_10
We lived in San Francisco during the Vietnam War. My parents were straight-up hippies. That's how I was raised. And so for me it was always like the liberals were the ones who wanted education and open-mindedness.

00:03:56 Speaker_10
The liberals who were the ones with the ACLU let the Nazis talk and let them have a rally. They said you can't infringe on people's free speech because if you infringe on the speech of people that you disagree with, You're being a fucking hypocrite.

00:04:09 Speaker_10
You've got the only solution to bad speech is better speech. We've always known that.

00:04:14 Speaker_10
But when they had the power over social media and these collective groups of people that all had the same ideology and then that tribal mentality kicks in and you lose the perspective.

00:04:25 Speaker_10
that you should have as an educated person that recognizes that everyone has to be able to talk, and we have to figure out who's right. And you might be wrong. You might be wrong.

00:04:35 Speaker_10
And you might be clinging to this idea that you're right, and you're going to do the whole thing a terrible disservice.

00:04:42 Speaker_04
You know, the thing that I loved about the left, Joe, was the anti-establishment left. The left that were like, you know, we're going to challenge authority. We're not going to listen to what the parties in charge may be saying.

00:04:54 Speaker_04
You know, what I used to listen to Bill Hicks when I was a kid, when I was 19 and go, oh, you know, that to me was like a totem of the left.

00:05:04 Speaker_04
But you just look at what happened to the left and what I saw in my own country and here, and it just seemed like this herd mentality came in. And the moment you stopped, you started questioning or pushing back.

00:05:20 Speaker_04
It was the moment you just found yourself exiled from the group and it just seemed that what I fell in love with at one point in my life no longer existed.

00:05:30 Speaker_10
Yeah because it's bullshit and I think we should even stop calling it the left and the right because it's just tribes. And that is the real problem.

00:05:39 Speaker_10
When you have people that are supposedly progressive and liberal, and they're opposed to the idea that free speech is an absolute right as an American citizen, it's very, very important.

00:05:53 Speaker_10
It's very important because too many people can decide what you can and can't say. Like when Tim Walz was saying, like, free speech doesn't apply to hate speech and misinformation. Of course it does. First of all, of course it does.

00:06:06 Speaker_10
But also, you said misinformation. Okay, well, if that's the case, like, where is all the punishment of all the people that spread misinformation during COVID? Like, where's the call? Where's the call for accountability? It's non-existent. It's not real.

00:06:23 Speaker_10
They don't really care about misinformation.

00:06:25 Speaker_01
They care about controlling information. A hundred percent, man. And look, this is going to sound like a party political point. It's not intended to be. But if we look at the facts, from 2016 onwards. We've heard a lot of misinformation. Yes, a lot.

00:06:39 Speaker_01
A lot of it. A lot of it. And nobody ever got punished for that. Nobody ever went to prison.

00:06:43 Speaker_10
Some of those people are still in positions of power.

00:06:45 Speaker_01
And still supposedly the respected arbiters of truth and morality in our society.

00:06:50 Speaker_10
Sure, they're still making appearances on these cable news talk shows.

00:06:54 Speaker_01
Yeah. And look, I think the concern about inaccurate information is perfectly valid and a legitimate thing for us to worry about in an ecosystem where information travels so quickly. It's not an illegitimate thing to be concerned about.

00:07:08 Speaker_01
But you can't have one side lie called the other side.

00:07:13 Speaker_10
This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay. I get it. Life is busy, but sometimes you just...

00:07:30 Speaker_03
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00:11:39 Speaker_01
Out for its lies, and then go, only that is misinformation. What we say, that's, oh, oh, yeah, we said it, but we forgot about it. It's fine.

00:11:46 Speaker_10
Also, there's this inherent problem with business being entangled in information, and that's what happened when these tech companies exploded.

00:11:57 Speaker_10
So business, an enormous business, not small business, business like Google and Facebook and Apple, and these are huge businesses, and all of a sudden they are in charge of information, not necessarily Apple, but in a way, because they have banned people from the Apple store and banned people from...

00:12:16 Speaker_10
But it's their their businesses and enormous businesses, but they're super left-wing not just super left-wing like super woke left-wing which is like kind of the craziest version of it where it just There's no room for negotiation.

00:12:32 Speaker_10
There's anybody who disagrees is a fascist It gets like real weird gets real weird with ideas. So you have for the first time ever human beings are

00:12:42 Speaker_10
Capable of just with a device they carry around with them that has unbelievable amounts of power That device has first of all you can be on it for like what 20 hours now the new ones they're like 20 hour battery life of just you staring at a fucking screen all day and you're getting connected with an infinite number of ideas that are constantly coming your way and

00:13:05 Speaker_10
And it's almost all in the hands of left-wing. The left-wing party is Google, it's Facebook, it's all these companies that have massive power. And until Elon stepped in and bought Twitter, there was no counter to that. It was just one side.

00:13:24 Speaker_10
And that's where things get really weird, because businesses like to have monopolies, they like to crush things. And if you have the monopoly of information, you get essentially Microsoft in information form.

00:13:36 Speaker_10
When they had the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft, and people worry that it's a monopoly, and there's people who think that about Google now. And there's even conversations about Apple being a monopoly.

00:13:45 Speaker_10
Businesses love that they love the kick-ass, you know, they like fucking dominate the business your your goal if you run a business you literally have a you have a Obligation to your shareholders that you continually grow the business.

00:13:58 Speaker_10
There's only one way to do that And if you you're the biggest thing and what what is in your interest well definitely controlling the information and

00:14:08 Speaker_10
We would like to control them, and we also want some cultural beach balls that we could chuck around so people get distracted and throw them back and forth at each other.

00:14:16 Speaker_10
There's a bunch of Republicans that love the fact that there's these gender-affirming care centers. They love it, because it gives them something to yell about. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them fund these things. Some people are fucking crazy.

00:14:29 Speaker_10
They're fucking crazy. Especially if they found out it was profitable. Maybe they got some sort of a fund and part of it is a... These are privately owned businesses.

00:14:37 Speaker_10
The whole thing is just human tribal characteristics applied to the way we're supposed to coexist with each other and share the space. And it's all fucked up.

00:14:50 Speaker_10
It's all fucked up because it's the cowboys versus the raiders and no one's thinking straight.

00:14:56 Speaker_01
That's so true. At election time especially it becomes like that. But I am hopeful. This election I think there is one thing going on which I'm actually really hopeful about which is You know, you had Trump on on Friday.

00:15:08 Speaker_01
Like the conversation is moving from the clickbait five seconds mainstream media journalist will tell you what to think to a three hour conversation. You get to see the real person.

00:15:20 Speaker_01
If that continues, which it will, and by the time of the next election, this format will be the dominant format, I think, the type of person who is going to be selected for positions of leadership will be a different type of person than the type of person who's selected on 10-second soundbites on mainstream media.

00:15:39 Speaker_10
But you certainly have a way better grasp of who they are.

00:15:42 Speaker_01
But the medium is the message. It will change the type of person that succeeds in that format.

00:15:48 Speaker_10
Right. The veveks will rise.

00:15:50 Speaker_01
Right. And that gives us a chance, actually, to change the political leadership in Western elites, which is badly needed. And we've been talking about it for God knows how many years now, that the caliber of people coming through is not high enough.

00:16:05 Speaker_01
Right. If this format takes over, that will change. And I don't know, it might just be a small blip on the road down to oblivion, but it might just be actually the thing that changes the type of leaders we elect. And that's exciting.

00:16:17 Speaker_10
There's a bunch of people that are out there now that I'm very excited about. One of them is Vivek, a big one is Tulsi Gabbard, and RFK Jr., of course. I love that guy.

00:16:27 Speaker_10
I love what he's done his entire career, and I love what he's trying to do with health. I mean, this is a real issue that we all face, and we're all being poisoned, and they're profiting off of it, and we're not doing shit about it.

00:16:41 Speaker_10
Meanwhile, you stop psychedelics from being given to veterans to help them with PTSD. It doesn't make any sense. This makes zero fucking sense, and they have so much control over what you say and do.

00:16:53 Speaker_10
Because if you can decide that something is, it's unsuitable for the population, like the drug schedule program they have in the United States, right? They have schedule one, two, and three, depending upon if there's any medicinal use for it.

00:17:09 Speaker_10
And psychedelics are all on schedule one. That is crazy. If you're telling me there's no medicinal use, you could get thousands of people to testify in Congress about soldiers in particular. I know so many soldiers. No one prepares them for that.

00:17:23 Speaker_10
They go over there when they're 19 years old, and they see people get blown up. They lose their friends. They come back, and then they're supposed to just integrate, and there's no fucking program that can help you do that.

00:17:35 Speaker_10
You're on your own, and you've got to sort through what you've seen that's so different than all these people around you. You have to sort through seeing your friends die. You have to sort through having to kill people.

00:17:48 Speaker_10
You have to sort through that and just exist. And then there's a tremendous amount of veterans who commit suicide. It's a crazy number. And psychedelics are proven to help that.

00:17:59 Speaker_10
So the fact that there's some sort of an organization that thinks that somehow or another that is bad, that this thing that doesn't kill anybody, literally like the LD50 rate for psilocybin is something insane. It's like you have to take

00:18:12 Speaker_10
Well, it's like a hundred pounds of it or something. I don't know what it is. Like let's find out what's the LD 50 rate, which means Lethal dose at 50% of the population like what kills half the people.

00:18:22 Speaker_10
It's just like you can't do it It's not that's not what the concern is. Are there concerns about people losing their marbles when they do it? Yeah Yeah, there is concerns.

00:18:31 Speaker_10
It ain't it's not a fucking free ride You know, there's some people that are mentally fragile and they have mental issues already. They shouldn't be doing that but

00:18:41 Speaker_10
For everybody else, there should be a conversation where we figure out how to make the world a better place. And one of the ways to make the world a better place is to make people more kind, more compassionate, and more understanding.

00:18:53 Speaker_10
And that's something that psychedelics provides. And the fact that that is somehow or another listed by a country that is the leader of the free world in the most information-rich time alive. There's so much access to information.

00:19:09 Speaker_10
We all know what they really are and what they're not, and yet this organization that's somehow in this shadow organization that controls what we do tells you you can't have that. If you have it, you go to jail. That's bananas.

00:19:25 Speaker_10
That doesn't make any sense and as long as we keep stupid shit like that People will never have hope that there's going to be a better horizon a better future They would think that all these things are so it takes so long just for marijuana Look marijuana still not federally legal, but it's legal in like half the states It took so long for people where they're drinking whiskey on every fucking corner people are just doing shots and drinking tequila and

00:19:52 Speaker_10
Marijuana is something that gets you locked in a cage as long as something like that exists.

00:19:56 Speaker_10
That's preposterous and completely illogical The good that it serves is the ruling class it gets to rule without logic Because they don't have to it doesn't have to make sense. Fuck you. You're going to jail, you know

00:20:09 Speaker_10
As long as they say that, you're like, ah, we raise your taxes, you gotta pay them, fuck you, you're going to jail. But the fucking Constitution, shut up. So if there's like an illegal situation like that, or an illogical situation like that, rather,

00:20:23 Speaker_10
It makes you lose faith in the whole system, but when someone like RFK jr.

00:20:28 Speaker_10
Comes along and says hey I think we can fix this it's like give him a fucking chance Maybe he can maybe he can fix this whole health system where we've been co-opted by these these giant organizations that want you to make money and

00:20:43 Speaker_04
You know, we interviewed on the show to make money off you.

00:20:46 Speaker_04
Yeah, absolutely, you know on our show we interviewed a guy called Dr. David Nutt who's a neuropharmacologist and he's in charge of the hallucinogenic trials in Imperial College London looking at how these particular drugs can alleviate PTSD Anxiety other types of mental health disorders and depression and the results that are coming out of there are fantastic There's actually showing that

00:21:12 Speaker_04
lot of drugs like psilocybin are in fact far more effective than Prescription meds when it comes to alleviating conditions like depression and it's really impressive what they're doing It is you know, I've talked to a lot of guys.

00:21:26 Speaker_10
What is this? I Can't hear you, buddy. Oh The LD 50 rate I'll say you're not your mics on brother. Oh Joe, sorry, could you pass the lighter, please? Yeah, sorry.

00:21:41 Speaker_04
Thank you, sir.

00:21:44 Speaker_10
He has to have the mic down because Carl's snoring. He's not asleep, so it's probably a little safer.

00:21:51 Speaker_06
That was the LD50. Bro, when he snores, he fucking puts in some work, that little dude. This is the best I could find. That was 280 per milligrams per mg to kg, which is really hard to understand.

00:22:01 Speaker_10
So it's 154 pounds. No, no. For an average-sized individual. Oh, that's the weight of the average-sized individual. So the lethal dose, 50%, is okay. Normal dose would be 20 to 30. It actually says no lethal overdose potential.

00:22:17 Speaker_10
It says there's no potential for dying.

00:22:19 Speaker_10
The recommended therapeutic dose for optimal effects is 20 to 30 milligrams for an average-sized individual, 70 kilograms or 154 pounds, for whom the medium lethal dose, LD50, is 19,600 milligrams, making it virtually impossible to ingest a lethal dose of psilocybin.

00:22:40 Speaker_10
But boy, if you got close, You might figure everything out I've solved it.

00:22:51 Speaker_04
I solved it. You know, I did I probably told you about this before but I invited a shaman around to my house a couple of years ago and I did a psilocybin trip and And the results of it were so profound. They changed the way I looked at the world.

00:23:09 Speaker_04
And I remember coming out after that, the next day, going, oh, all you're doing, all you really are is a conduit for energy. That's all you are. You're a conduit for positive energy or light, or you're a conduit for dark.

00:23:21 Speaker_04
And that's really your choice as a human being. Do you want to put light and love out into the world, or do you want to put dark? Because we have both of those fundamentally contained within our soul.

00:23:30 Speaker_04
So it's up to you as an individual, what do you want to put out there? And if you want to put out light and love, you're going to get back light and love. And if you want to put darkness, anger, destruction, you know what?

00:23:41 Speaker_04
That is going to come back on you threefold.

00:23:43 Speaker_10
It's true. It really is true. It seems so simplistic and ideal. Oh, that's such a utopian version of the world. But for the most part, there's something real to it, and you do sense that. You do sense that sometimes in life.

00:23:57 Speaker_10
There's these beautiful moments in life where you're kind of like, oh, this can be navigated. This life can be navigated better. And one of the best ways to navigate life is to avoid conflict at all costs. It never solves anything.

00:24:12 Speaker_10
It almost always creates problems. And people that want conflict all the time are the most miserable people. They're just constantly embroiled in hate and anger and trying to get people back.

00:24:23 Speaker_10
And I think people, that's the negative thing that people associate with Trump. The negative thing that people associate with Trump is of like, you hit him, he's hitting you back harder. Like he's got this thing, you know, like.

00:24:34 Speaker_10
He called some lady that, you know, one of the ladies that he allegedly had an affair with, he called her horse face on Twitter while he's a sitting president. That is so crazy. So that bothers people because it's like that kind of energy.

00:24:48 Speaker_10
You know, we don't like that kind of energy. And I think that's something that people are very apprehensive about for a leader.

00:24:55 Speaker_01
Sure. What was your sense of his energy when he was here?

00:24:59 Speaker_10
He's very charming, right? So he's very friendly to me and he also, we have a very good mutual friend, Dana White. Dana White loves him. He stuck up for Dana when MMA was a banned sport and he let them put on his events in Trump Casino in Atlantic City.

00:25:18 Speaker_10
So Dana loves the guy and they've always had a good friendship. You know, he got mad at me one time because I said that RFK Jr. was only a guy that makes sense. But I was essentially saying it the same way I'm saying it here. It's like what RFK Jr.

00:25:33 Speaker_10
is, he talks about facts and talks about reality and he talks about issues and he talks about like studies and what we know about things. He's just brilliant with his recall. And he doesn't attack people. And I think we could all use more of that.

00:25:47 Speaker_10
Even if he's writing something about something like in that book, The Real Anthony Fauci, it's because it's true and it's not good information and it affects all of us. It's not like personally attacking someone.

00:25:59 Speaker_10
And I think that personal attack stuff is what bothers people. And so what did he do? He just attacked me. But he attacked me in the craziest way. He said, I wonder how loud Joe Rogan's going to get booed at the next time he goes to the UFC.

00:26:14 Speaker_10
I'm like, hey bro, like out of all the places. That's kind of your home court, I bet. Out of all the places where you think I'm going to get booed. Come on, man. Those fucking people. I've been working for that company for 27 years.

00:26:26 Speaker_10
Like whatever it's been. I mean, yeah, when did I start? I started in 97. That was the first time I worked for the UFC. Like, come on. That's a crazy thing to say. Or how about, I hate Taylor Swift? I forgot to ask him about that one.

00:26:38 Speaker_10
Did he really tweet that? I think he put it on True Social when she endorsed Kamala Harris, all capital letters, I hate Taylor Swift.

00:26:46 Speaker_11
He just has this rule.

00:26:48 Speaker_01
He just has to go after anyone who says anything negative about him. It's why he's still in the game though.

00:26:54 Speaker_10
This is you have to realize like that's the kind of guy that even though they throw 40 felonies at him He's still in the game and he's still all day.

00:27:03 Speaker_10
He sat here for three fucking hours, man And that didn't have to pee before didn't have to pee afterwards just gets on the fucking plane flies to Michigan does the other thing he's two hours late and He just goes, man. It's kind of bizarre.

00:27:18 Speaker_10
You hear about that and you're like, oh, that's not true. No, he really stays locked in. He didn't get tired. He's 78 years old, but he was locked in. He's got a lot of energy.

00:27:29 Speaker_01
It's unbelievable how much energy he has. And one of the things I said as well is after you watched his first presidency, he didn't age. Do you remember Barack Obama? It was like someone drained the color from him.

00:27:41 Speaker_10
Same with Blair. Yeah, same with Blair. Everybody gets hit hard. Look at Biden. Biden basically died. I mean, he got to the point where- You're gonna get a fact check on that, Jeff. Every now and then, he- I said basically.

00:27:57 Speaker_10
Every now and then, he fucking will hold a press conference and it's wild. It's like, so who lets him get to the mic? Is there no- He's still the president. But meanwhile, who's running this motherfucker? She's doing podcasts.

00:28:11 Speaker_10
She's flying all over the place. There's no way you're paying attention. So who's running this thing? Yeah. Nancy Pelosi? She's in a bathtub filled with diamonds right now.

00:28:21 Speaker_04
She's the same age though as well.

00:28:22 Speaker_10
She's older. She's older than all of them.

00:28:25 Speaker_04
She's like 83. You know what it kind of feels like? You know when you're in school and like the teacher leaves, gets called out, and then it's just you and the class, the rest of the class, and you're looking around going, what the fuck's going on?

00:28:35 Speaker_10
Yeah, how are we free? You know what it feels like for me when I use my Tesla and I use auto drive? I just hands off like, Jesus, does this work?

00:28:45 Speaker_10
Thank God for the deep state yeah, well the if if that's real if that's what's running this thing I assume it's his cabinet that's running everything, but even then It's like did is that really how it's supposed to be it's kind of not It's kind of the weird thing about running for president when you already have a job It's like that's why people get mad at governors who run for president.

00:29:07 Speaker_10
It's like hey, bro You're supposed to be governing. We've got a lot of problems here. If you don't want to quit your job to apply for another job, the people that already employed you are like, hey fuckface, you're not even here every day.

00:29:21 Speaker_10
You're trying to get this other job. This is nuts. I've never seen an employee where you're not on the job and yet you're still here and if you don't get the new job you get to come back and be in this job. That's crazy. Why did we let that happen?

00:29:35 Speaker_10
If you want to be governor, okay, you're governor. You want to run for president? You got to quit being governor. Or you got to do your term out because you're going to leave us anyway.

00:29:45 Speaker_10
So if you have two more years left and the elections are on, you're going to leave us. You're going to leave us high and dry here, you fuckhead. Quit the job! Quit the fucking job. You can't have two jobs.

00:29:58 Speaker_10
So that's the nuttiest thing about running for president for re-election, right?

00:30:03 Speaker_10
So in Kamala Harris's case, she's not necessarily really running for re-election because she's the vice president, but she's also the vice president that's running for president.

00:30:12 Speaker_10
So she has the second most important job in the world and she's not doing it because she has to run for the first most important job. So who's doing the job? Well, who's doing both jobs? Who's doing vice

00:30:26 Speaker_04
It has that feeling though that you remember like in the 90s where you like I don't know if you felt like this and I was much younger where you just kind of didn't question it as much and then all of a sudden you start questioning things and It all it does is lead you down from one rabbit hole to another rabbit hole to another rabbit holes You know, it's like

00:30:50 Speaker_04
People always used to say to us when we started trigonometry, they were like, you know, the whole free speech thing is bullshit, blah, blah, blah. You just want to be able to say racist things. You're a racist. And they were right.

00:31:00 Speaker_04
And that's why I came to Texas.

00:31:12 Speaker_10
I Tell all comedians don't ever do comedy at something that's not a comedy event It don't do it.

00:31:21 Speaker_10
Don't ever do comedy at a place that's doing also Yeah, you know you're gonna is he gonna have a bunch of speakers and you're gonna go up and do 10 minutes Don't ever do that. It's a terrible setup. It's terrible setup and it's

00:31:34 Speaker_10
a political rally and you're doing jokes like you're in a comedy club. It doesn't, you can't, don't do it.

00:31:41 Speaker_01
I don't really blame Tony though, because Tony is what Tony is, right? Like if you want an insult comic, Tony is the best in the world.

00:31:47 Speaker_10
That's literally his great specialty is roasting.

00:31:51 Speaker_01
Right.

00:31:51 Speaker_10
The best roaster ever.

00:31:53 Speaker_01
If you book Tony Hinchcliffe, Tony Hinchcliffe is going to be Tony Hinchcliffe. Exactly. So whoever fucking booked him, that's the person that's made the mistake.

00:32:00 Speaker_10
Not just booked him, but apparently went over his material. Did they go over his material?

00:32:05 Speaker_01
No. Oh my.

00:32:08 Speaker_10
This is what I've read on the internet, so it must be true. In the words of Donald Trump, someone's getting fired, man. I gotta tell you, that joke kills at comedy clubs. I don't like the joke, but it kills.

00:32:19 Speaker_10
And I said to him, I don't, it's just like, if you're Puerto Rican and you hear that in the audience, like, oh, but it's a funny joke. The joke does well. But I said to him, I go, dude, that's the one's going to get you stabbed.

00:32:30 Speaker_09
Really?

00:32:31 Speaker_10
Yes. And he used to talk about it on stage saying, Joe Rogan always says, that's the one's going to get me stabbed. Like, Wow. Which is so crazy.

00:32:40 Speaker_01
Yeah. I think he'd pick stabbed at this point, given the shit that's going down.

00:32:44 Speaker_10
I think it'll blow over just like all these things do. And there's people that are always going to hate someone like Tony and it's going to make other people love him more.

00:32:52 Speaker_05
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00:34:27 Speaker_04
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:28 Speaker_10
He's going through the storm.

00:34:29 Speaker_04
As somebody who, you know, has wound up, you know, who winds people up, we, you know, we've wound people up on our time.

00:34:35 Speaker_10
Yeah, you guys are winders.

00:34:36 Speaker_04
We get called something beginning with W, right?

00:34:40 Speaker_10
Oh, well, you guys, that's a negative over there, wanker. You can call someone a wanker here and it's just like... Yeah.

00:34:45 Speaker_04
Yeah, sure.

00:34:46 Speaker_10
It's like calling them a cracker. It doesn't really work for a hunky.

00:34:49 Speaker_04
But when I saw what Tony did, I went, all right, mate, you're in a different league now to me. That is another level. Yeah.

00:34:55 Speaker_10
Obama was quoting his bit, but he's quoting it like it was a statement. Right. Which is really fucked up. He was quoting it like he was saying someone called Puerto Rico an island of garbage. But you know, that's a joke.

00:35:06 Speaker_10
That's like going to a Quentin Tarantino movie. And then the man killed that woman. Like he didn't really kill that woman. That was a that's like a doll. Yeah. You know, this is a movie. No one died. Everyone's fine. They all like each other.

00:35:17 Speaker_10
But if you give them ammunition. Yeah, it's the problem. We were discussing this in the bathroom. It's like, that's their job. That's what they have to do. That's their job.

00:35:25 Speaker_01
You give them ammunition, they're going to use it.

00:35:26 Speaker_10
Of course they're going to do it. That's what they do. You can't assume they're going to be a good person and not use it in this critical moment. How many days are we? Eight days before the election? That's crazy. That's so soon.

00:35:40 Speaker_10
Of course you're going to use everything. I'd use it too.

00:35:43 Speaker_04
But you know what? It nicely encapsulates modern politics because it's a storm about nothing. It's a storm about a joke at a rally.

00:35:51 Speaker_04
And actually everybody's focusing on that instead of the huge problems that America has, which we all need to be discussing and we need to be discussing in a calm, serious and sober manner.

00:36:03 Speaker_04
Because, for example, if you have an open border, that's an existential crisis because if you can't control control your borders, you don't have a country. But we don't talk about that, really.

00:36:13 Speaker_04
We're getting upset because Tony Hinchkeff came along and called Puerto Rico an island of trash.

00:36:26 Speaker_10
Tony is actually obsessed with the Pacific garbage patch. And unlike the fact that we just throw, like we were talking about like recycling, like recycling doesn't work. They don't do it.

00:36:38 Speaker_10
Most of your bottles and you throw in a recycler, they get put in landfills. So there's a landfill in Puerto Rico that's way overflowed. Puerto Rico has a legitimate trash problem. Because they're on an island. Where are you going to put it?

00:36:51 Speaker_10
There's all these people living on that island. Where are you going to put it? And so they have landfills. Their landfills are way over capacity. So that's where the joke came from. The joke came from Tony being environmentally conscious.

00:37:04 Speaker_10
Yeah, they don't seem to have taken it that way. But from his roaster perspective, that's where the joke comes from. I think it's called Puerto Rico. And you say it and everybody laughs.

00:37:12 Speaker_11
Yeah.

00:37:13 Speaker_01
Actually, we were at the rally and people say no one laughed not quite true like it didn't get a big laugh But it got a bit of a laugh. It's funny joke. Yeah.

00:37:22 Speaker_10
Yeah, you know even Jon Stewart said it was a funny joke Which I thought was great of him.

00:37:26 Speaker_10
He had much better ones that got a bigger response But yeah, it's a terrible people like well It wasn't funny right because it was it was a terrible setup for comedy everything was wrong if you were at a comedy club and the guy did that set you'd be laughing and

00:37:38 Speaker_10
It's just a bad setup. Everything's wrong. You don't go to see acoustic music while people are using jackhammers around you. It's not the right setup. You want to go where somewhere it's quiet.

00:37:50 Speaker_10
Stand-up comedy should be done in a comedy environment, in a club. There is a great video, though, I should say, of Don Rickles. Don Rickles in the, have you seen that? The Reagans inauguration? Don Rickles was a, gee boy, he was a funny man.

00:38:07 Speaker_10
He was so good. It really translates today, like you watch that set, it really translates today. But I think Don Rickles was almost like He was in this category of ultra-famous comedian, right?

00:38:24 Speaker_10
He was in this Dave Chappelle-type category, where just seeing Don Rickles, all of a sudden it was a comedy show. Like, oh my God, Don Rickles is here. Tony Hitchcliff does not have that, right?

00:38:34 Speaker_10
If Dave Chappelle went up and did 10 minutes in front of Donald Trump, or 10 minutes in front of Kamala Harris, that's a different thing. Because it's like, he's a cultural icon, and you immediately go into stand-up comedy mode.

00:38:46 Speaker_10
Like, oh shit, Chappelle's here. Right? That's what Don Rickles had with Reagan. Tony doesn't have that. It's a bad thing to do. The whole thing's bad. It's like doing a bachelor party.

00:38:57 Speaker_10
Like when you have to do comedy at bachelor parties, they want whores and cocaine.

00:39:02 Speaker_02
Why is this guy telling jokes?

00:39:04 Speaker_10
But it's just a bad environment. It's a bad environment for comedy. And that joke, I would have told him, don't you fucking dare do that joke. I never sat down with him. I didn't know what bits he was going to do.

00:39:17 Speaker_10
But then I heard he did that joke, I was like, oh Jesus, Tony.

00:39:22 Speaker_01
Here it comes. I think there are comedians probably who I think Tony is the wrong type of comedian for that environment.

00:39:28 Speaker_01
If you had someone come in who wasn't a roast comedian who actually made everyone feel good and like you know who could do it and just talk about cultural issues and get everybody to laugh is Jimmy Dore.

00:39:40 Speaker_10
Jimmy Dore is really good at that. He could do something like that because he's so knowledgeable when it comes to politics. He could bridge the gaps between humor and fact and reality and what we're up against. He could do that.

00:39:54 Speaker_10
But it's not Tony's wheelhouse, man. Tony's just talking shit about people's clothes and stuff. Very fucking very shallow with that like his comedy is all just you're a loser But it's fun. It's like and He'll get through it.

00:40:09 Speaker_10
You know he's going through a storm, and that's what happens with all these things with people like that But it's good for him, too.

00:40:17 Speaker_10
When he got cancelled in the past, he came back way stronger as a comic, because he felt like he had to prove something. It made him really tighten up his material, really edit things well, and really write sharp stuff. That's what'll happen with him.

00:40:30 Speaker_10
He'll come back better.

00:40:32 Speaker_04
The thing I really like about Tony is Tony's a fighter. You can tell. When we interviewed him on our show and we talked to him, I'm like, you're a fighter. You're, you know, that's who essentially he is.

00:40:41 Speaker_04
And he's going to come from back from this better and stronger. And look, it's everybody who is smart realizes that this is a storm about nothing. And it's being used and politicized and weaponized by the Democrat Party because

00:40:58 Speaker_04
That's what they do, that's what every side does.

00:40:59 Speaker_10
It's also because it's effective. That's their job. It makes sense that they would do that. That's literally their job. Their job is to win this fucking election.

00:41:10 Speaker_10
And if they can win this election by finding some lady who says Trump fingered her in the 80s, roll her out! Roll her out! Who else you got? There's all kinds of crazy allegations on both sides.

00:41:24 Speaker_10
I've seen nutty things that I don't even want to repeat about Kamala Harris that I'm sure aren't true, but it doesn't matter. They're just throwing things out there as much as possible. The thing is, most people aren't even paying attention to them.

00:41:36 Speaker_01
It makes me so angry, you know, like my great grandfather, he died on the Eastern Front fighting actual Nazis. These comparisons are just, they're illegitimate.

00:41:47 Speaker_01
And what they do also is they take the power away from the words, because now if you say this guy is a Nazi, there are some Nazis. Like open your fucking Twitter feed. There's some Nazis out there.

00:41:58 Speaker_01
But if you say that guy's a Nazi, no one takes it seriously anymore.

00:42:01 Speaker_10
Right, but there were some other things at the rally that people got offended by, and one of them, was that guy's name Stephen Miller? Was that his name? Yeah. He yelled something like, America is for Americans. Like something like that.

00:42:14 Speaker_10
Let's see what he said. See what he said. I don't remember that part. That was a weird one, I thought, because I'm like, OK, what's an American? They're all immigrants. It's a literal country full of immigrants.

00:42:23 Speaker_10
So it's not like saying Germany is for Germans, right?

00:42:29 Speaker_04
That has a different vibe to it. It does. It does. A bad example.

00:42:34 Speaker_10
I should have said, like, Portugal is for Portuguese.

00:42:37 Speaker_04
When they got Germany, it's for the Germans. You're like, all right, mate.

00:42:41 Speaker_10
But it's that same kind of rhetoric to get people like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, why are you yelling that? Like, what are you saying? Like, I really like the way J.D. Vance talks. It's not screamy, yelly.

00:42:52 Speaker_10
It's like very smooth, and he's very coordinated. Very good. He's a shop guy. Very good at being a very intelligent guy, very good at being a politician. And he does these interviews, which is interesting, too, because he'll talk to all these people.

00:43:05 Speaker_10
He'll talk to CNN, all these people that corner him. They try to corner him on stuff. It's interesting what people admit to and what they won't admit to and what they won't talk about. Did you see Jake Tapper and him got at it? Yeah.

00:43:18 Speaker_01
He's so good with the media, man. He's very good at breaking the tabs that they set.

00:43:22 Speaker_10
So what does he say? Americans for Americans only. Let's see how he says it. Listen to how he says it. America is for Americans and Americans only. All right, settle down, bro. That's goofy. That's goofy because, yeah, right, but what is America?

00:43:40 Speaker_10
America is literally a country of immigrants. I want you guys to be Americans. I know people that have moved here that have become Americans. Best pool player in the world, Fedor Gorst. He's from Russia. Became an American citizen. He's American now.

00:43:55 Speaker_10
He plays literally on the Moscone Cup, which is like America's pool team. He's American. America is everybody from everywhere. That's literally what we are. We are the actual melting pot. So America is for Americans only. What does that mean?

00:44:11 Speaker_10
How about let's not let in criminals, rapists, and murderers? How about that? How about let's vet the terrorists before they come across us? How about say that? America is for Americans only.

00:44:22 Speaker_01
Totally and you know we've traveled to many countries. I have to say when it comes to legal immigration I haven't been to a place.

00:44:29 Speaker_10
That's more pro-immigrant at the level of the ordinary person right in this country Well, we love an immigrant success story right we love a guy who comes here from Nigeria now He's worth a billion dollars, and he made his own computer company like holy shit look at that this guy came from nothing

00:44:44 Speaker_10
We love a come-from-nothing.

00:44:45 Speaker_10
We don't that's the things that my friends from England always tell me is that there's this real sort of There's an idea in the culture like to keep people in their place Yeah, and they don't like when someone has like wild aspirations, and they'll try to shit on you He says there's no support at all for you like chasing your dream tall poppy syndrome.

00:45:05 Speaker_01
We call it. Yeah. Yeah, well look Francis was born in the UK I came there when I was 11. I love Britain, but there is this element where You're not supposed to strive. You're not supposed to think you're special.

00:45:18 Speaker_01
You're not supposed to try and achieve too much. Everyone loves you as long as you're not too successful. But if you really think you want to be successful, it becomes more difficult. And that's why a lot of those people end up coming here.

00:45:30 Speaker_01
Give up your your tabloids are brutal Yeah tabloids over there are brutal and the laws are like different and now the tax system to with this government that we have now They're literally we're losing more millionaires than any other country in the world except China didn't France do that at one point in time in act an enormous tax and a shit ton of people left and they wound up losing money and

00:45:51 Speaker_01
Lots of countries. It doesn't work because rich people don't have to live there.

00:45:55 Speaker_10
That's why we have to have one world government. You can't just keep letting people move to favorable spots. That's how America got started in the first place.

00:46:07 Speaker_04
What we're seeing in the UK, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure Constantine has his own view on this, is we're seeing, for me, the slow creep of I would say soft authoritarianism, but not even that. You look at Scotland.

00:46:20 Speaker_04
So Scotland on April the 1st, ironically enough, brought in hate speech, hate speech bill, they called it. It came into law and that has now criminalized public performance, which includes stand-up comedy.

00:46:34 Speaker_10
Yeah, I've heard that, but the problem is they have that enormous festival there every year. Yeah, the Edinburgh Comedy Festival. Yeah, Edinburgh is like famous worldwide.

00:46:41 Speaker_11
It's the biggest arts festival in the world.

00:46:43 Speaker_10
Yeah, Ari Shafir's done it like multiple times. He raves about it, he's like, you have to go, you have to go Edinburgh. I'm like, no I don't, shut up. Nah, you don't have to go.

00:46:51 Speaker_10
But he said it's like, you should go there and do American stand-up, because they're basically like, a lot of them are telling stories and they have a theme every year. But he goes, it's really cool though. It's a cool art environment.

00:47:02 Speaker_10
So if they come along and say that all that stuff's hate speech now, you've killed the whole thing.

00:47:07 Speaker_01
Well, Tony would be, if he'd done that joke there, he would be being investigated by the police right now.

00:47:13 Speaker_10
Well, he'd probably be in jail if he was in Canada.

00:47:15 Speaker_01
This is not an exaggeration.

00:47:17 Speaker_10
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm sure he would be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's danger. That's the whole thing we're talking about. It's like left wing ideas used to be free speech is important. I mean, that's why if you go back and like, even in,

00:47:32 Speaker_10
like left wing magazines and like remember when Gore Vidal and William F Buckley had that debate? That was a brilliant moment, right? Because that was kind of like one of the first podcasts.

00:47:47 Speaker_10
Because they played it on if you haven't seen that, what is the documentary about something best something enemies?

00:47:54 Speaker_10
It's a great documentary, but it shows that the network that put it on I think it was ABC was getting killed in the ratings and Otherwise they would have never done this and so they just decided like let's just take a chance and it became this enormous success Because everybody was under best of enemies, right?

00:48:11 Speaker_10
It's really fantastic. It's a great documentary and And, you know, William F. Buckley is kind of this stuffed shirt, kind of douchey right wing guy with a pretty good vocabulary. And Gore Vidal, who is brilliant, but a weirdo, man.

00:48:24 Speaker_10
He wrote that nutty book about a transgender woman who, like Raquel Welch, played in the movie. It's the craziest book.

00:48:32 Speaker_10
that he turned into a movie it's a really nutty movie about like a guy becomes a woman and she's really hot and then becomes a man again and it's like there's a lot of sex in the movie like it's it's like a perverted bizarre twisted movie it sounds very progressive it was it was it was so progressive that nobody understood what the fuck he was doing he was so far ahead of his time

00:48:55 Speaker_10
But, you know, that was the left back then. You could, you know, you were kind of free to talk about anything.

00:49:02 Speaker_04
But this is the thing that is fascinating about that Scottish bill.

00:49:07 Speaker_10
That's it. Myra Breckinridge. I bought it on DVD. I'm not surprised, mate. Because you can't stream it anywhere. Raquel Wells. First of all, the idea that any man could ever look like Raquel Wells. Like, shut the fuck up. Unless she's in Thailand.

00:49:21 Speaker_12
This is not.

00:49:23 Speaker_10
The picture was controversial for sexual explicitness, including acts like female-on-male rape, but it, unlike the novel, received little to no critical praise and has been cited as one of the worst films ever made.

00:49:38 Speaker_10
In subsequent decades, the film has developed a cult following. It's a crazy movie.

00:49:42 Speaker_04
Yeah, it's it's so interesting like the way that we you know things were seeded at one point in culture and now they've become mainstream I was I was at the gym and then the the words the the song Lola by the kinks.

00:49:57 Speaker_04
Yeah Yeah, I'm not dumb, but I can't understand why she walks like a woman and talks like a man Yeah, yeah, it's a great fucking song and

00:50:08 Speaker_10
yeah yeah and then you listen to it and you go this is really progressive and then it ends with um i know what she is she's a man so and then i'm like well you'd get cancelled for this bit now bro you know the craziest song the craziest song is brown sugar oh yeah oh yeah rolling stone doesn't even play brown sugar anymore i went to see them in concert and they said they would not play i mean they already said in interviews it's like it's too controversial song and then i saw the lyrics

00:50:33 Speaker_10
Like, I had only heard the song, I had never read the lyrics, and so, you know when Tim McJagger's singing, it's hard to understand what the fuck he's saying?

00:50:43 Speaker_10
He's singing, he's making sounds out of the words that are pleasing, more than he's communicating really clearly.

00:50:51 Speaker_04
pull up the lyrics to brown sugar wait till you read this have you read it i i remember some lines but not the full thing let's see this bro this this one is like yo i saw an interview with keith richards where they were like where the where the person said to him and maybe this was keith richards fucking about with the journalist where the journalist went so you know obviously brown sugar's about heroin

00:51:18 Speaker_04
And Keith Richards went, no bro, it's about sleeping with black women. And he went, OK, let's change the subject. Not just black, with slaves.

00:51:25 Speaker_10
Gold Coast slave ship bound for Cottonfield, sold in the market down in New Orleans. Scarred old slaver knows he's doing all right. Hear him whip the women just around midnight. Brown sugar, how come you taste so good?

00:51:41 Speaker_10
Brown sugar, just like a young girl should.

00:51:44 Speaker_10
drums beating cold english blood runs hot lady of the house wondering when it's gonna stop house boy knows that he's doing all right you should have heard him just around midnight brown sugar brown sugar oh i get it oh get it on brown sugar how come he tastes so good baby

00:52:02 Speaker_10
okay just like a black girl should now i bet your mama was a tent show queen and all her boyfriends were sweet 16 i'm no school boy but i know what i like you should have heard me just around midnight it's a crazy song it's a song called banger though it's a banger it's a banger it's a fantastic song but imagine if you put that song out today people be like yo

00:52:28 Speaker_10
What the fuck, that should get you cancelled. Like, if you did that at a Trump rally. If The Rolling Stones came out and did Brown Sugar at a Trump rally, if they opened up, ladies and gentlemen, The Rolling Stones! And they did Brown Sugar.

00:52:45 Speaker_01
Bro, but the world has changed so fast. My wife and I watched Friends the other day. You couldn't make friends now. Oh, right, right. You can't. Like, we used to watch it regularly. We watched one episode.

00:52:57 Speaker_01
We were like, this is... This is like, it's transphobic, it's racist, it's a whole bunch of shit.

00:53:03 Speaker_04
That's why it's funny.

00:53:05 Speaker_10
Well, have you ever seen Ace Ventura Pet Detective? Oh, yes. Holy shit. Try watching that again. You're like, yo, you couldn't make this movie at all today. So many great comedies. There's no fucking way Tropic Thunder gets made today. No way.

00:53:21 Speaker_10
It's one of the greatest comedies of all time. It's a phenomenal movie. You couldn't make it.

00:53:25 Speaker_01
Do you think this is like outright a bad thing or outright a good thing? Or do you think it's kind of halfway? What do you think of it? It's going to force courage.

00:53:35 Speaker_10
right because people obviously want to see those kind of movies it's just someone's going to have to have the courage to make it and if they do have the courage to make it it will get criticized but it'll also be wildly successful right if they really went for it and made a super bad today like a fucking all-out crazy comedy

00:53:54 Speaker_10
It would be huge. People would be so happy. So the only people that are reaping the rewards of that desire for rebellion are comics. We're the only ones.

00:54:04 Speaker_10
Comics and podcasters and mostly podcasters or comics, like a lot of them are at least, at least the comedy podcasts.

00:54:10 Speaker_04
But that's the thing. There is now a vacuum.

00:54:14 Speaker_04
There is now a vacuum for people to step in because it got to the point, particularly with TV comedy in the UK, and I remember saying it to comics and a comedy club, people's WhatsApp group is now funnier than TV comedy.

00:54:27 Speaker_04
And part of the reason is because if everybody saw your WhatsApp group, we'd all be cancelled.

00:54:32 Speaker_10
Right, right, right. Especially the ones I have.

00:54:36 Speaker_01
But it's not just you, man. It's everybody. It's everybody. Everybody's hiding, right? Everybody's hiding.

00:54:41 Speaker_10
It's talking shit, right? This is what's fun about memes. Like, I don't believe the thing in the meme is true, but it's funny. It's a funny, crazy thing to say.

00:54:50 Speaker_04
But why did we get to a point where we just believe that every joke was true?

00:54:55 Speaker_10
That every joke was a statement of fact? We don't believe it. But certain people want to use it because they're words written on paper or words spoken out loud. And they want to use it as if it's a real statement.

00:55:07 Speaker_10
Just like the analogy I made about Quentin Tarantino movies. It's not really killing anybody in those movies.

00:55:12 Speaker_10
It's like you want to pretend that this thing that this person's doing, you could decide it sucks, you could decide it's hateful, you don't like it, it's not your kind of comedy, it's punching down, you can come up with all sorts of reasons why you don't like it.

00:55:25 Speaker_10
But that's like the same kind of reasons why you don't like ACDC, you know, and you like Liz Phair. Like everybody has their own thing that they like and don't like. But you can't pretend that it's a statement.

00:55:37 Speaker_10
It's not a statement It's comedy and it's if I swear to God if you see him do it on stage it fucking kills.

00:55:42 Speaker_01
Yeah Yeah, this is why I am excited though, man Because look at you you just had one of the former president presidential candidate by the time of the next election It's gonna be everyone's gonna be doing podcasts.

00:55:53 Speaker_10
There's no getting away from what was interesting is Something happened. I'm sure it was a mistake at YouTube where you couldn't search for it. I'm sure it was a mistake. There's no way that was on purpose.

00:56:04 Speaker_10
And so if you googled Rogan Trump, you could only get clips. You couldn't watch the whole episode. You couldn't find it. And so we reached out to them a couple of times and they fixed it to their credit. So now you can find it.

00:56:20 Speaker_10
Okay, but so in the meantime Elon was furious and so Elon contacted Daniel Eck at Spotify And they put it on X as well, so now it's on X the full and so now it has way more views Because I think on Elon's alone What is it on the ones alone because Elon posted it and I posted it this morning like right?

00:56:38 Speaker_10
I posted it last night. I woke up. It was like six and a half million views on mine and And 8 plus million on his. So it's just, you can't suppress shit. It doesn't work. This is the internet. This is 2024. People are going to realize what you're doing.

00:56:54 Speaker_10
If you try to make it so that something can't come up in a search engine because it's too popular. First of all, if that's not trending, you tell me what the fuck is. So what's it at now? 8.6 million on mine. And what's it on on Elon's?

00:57:07 Speaker_10
Because he has a lot more people on his than me, so that's just from last night But you can't fucking suppress shit anymore like when you're saying that that's why is that not in the trending? You have a trending thing.

00:57:21 Speaker_10
What's your trending thing really then if one show has? 36 million downloads in two days like that's not trending like what's trending for you, mr. Beast little more than that but

00:57:33 Speaker_11
12 million for Elon.

00:57:34 Speaker_10
So he's at 12. So it hit 20 million in a day, just on X. And that's just us. There's a ton of clips. There's a ton of other accounts that have done it illegally, where they've taken the episode, the full episode and uploaded it.

00:57:50 Speaker_10
So who knows how many views those have.

00:57:51 Speaker_01
So Joe, can I just check, why do you say you're certain it was just a mistake?

00:57:56 Speaker_10
It's just a mistake.

00:57:57 Speaker_01
I'm being sarcastic. Oh, I didn't get that. Now it was my turn to miss the sarcasm. Okay.

00:58:03 Speaker_10
It's like, there's no way it was a mistake. That's too convenient, but it could have been like some rogue engineer. You know, there's a lot of people that are working behind the scenes. There's a lot of switches. That is so dumb though.

00:58:14 Speaker_10
But there's a video, you could watch the video of people searching for it. Oh, I did it. You couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it.

00:58:23 Speaker_10
And then it got to the point where you only had to write Joe Rogan Trump interview and then it would come up. But if you just wrote Rogan Trump, only you get the clips.

00:58:37 Speaker_04
It kind of worked for the Hunter Biden laptop story, what they did and their tactics around it. Now, obviously it came out later and it was a big scandal, but at the time it kind of worked.

00:58:50 Speaker_04
Do you think they might have thought, well, you know, it kind of worked for this, therefore we should try it for this?

00:58:55 Speaker_10
I think they're desperate because they had no idea it was going to be that popular and it's a runaway train and they hate it because ideologically they're opposed to the idea of him being more popular.

00:59:05 Speaker_10
It's just like what we were talking about before, the left wing being in control of these massive Media distribution companies like YouTube or like Facebook.

00:59:15 Speaker_10
They're massive companies They have so much influence on everything and they didn't like that This one was slipping away.

00:59:21 Speaker_10
And so they they did something and Jamie showed me like the image of the Interactions like when it when they did that it dropped off a cliff because people couldn't find it So they just gave up or they just watch the clips.

00:59:35 Speaker_10
So you see like how much downloads it's getting and then it just hurt and

00:59:39 Speaker_06
What about that claim about the reporting taking it down?

00:59:41 Speaker_10
What's that? Yeah, that could be it too, right? They were saying that you mass report something enough. So what was the actual claim?

00:59:48 Speaker_06
Like somebody posted? I sent it to you, right? Basically what you're about to say, if you mass report something enough, it might have just taken it out of the search because it wasn't like they didn't delete the video from our channel or anything.

00:59:57 Speaker_06
Right. So that could be it in the search.

00:59:59 Speaker_10
That could be it. But that's also the same thing, right? Because it's people that are on the left that are mass reporting something to try to silence it rather than just letting people do it.

01:00:07 Speaker_10
So maybe it's not the company itself, but it's the people that are attached to the ideology that the company follows. And they think that you should be able to do something about a conversation like that.

01:00:17 Speaker_04
but it's so stupid joe it's so ridiculous because i i look at that and i go like you said all you're going to do is you're going to bring more eyeballs to it because everyone's going to think hang on they're going they're what they well i'm definitely going to watch it now it's so i just don't understand and this is me being a little bit naive and whatever else and go why not for the democrat party why don't you do this i know it's going to blow everyone's mind why don't you get the best possible candidate that you can

01:00:47 Speaker_04
and just go in on Trump. He's got flaws.

01:00:49 Speaker_10
That's why this election is so dangerous. The reason why this election is so dangerous is we've accepted that someone could be the representative without going through a primary.

01:00:59 Speaker_10
So because we had to get rid of Joe Biden, and everybody kind of agreed after the debate, like, oh my God, he's literally falling apart. and they decided not to have a primary.

01:01:09 Speaker_10
And so once they do that, then you have the whole machine behind it, because there's a desperate attempt to redefine who this person is in front of everybody's eyes.

01:01:20 Speaker_10
This person that everybody thought uses word salad, and all of a sudden now they're the number one person. This is our savior. Barack Obama's behind her. Everybody's behind her. It has to happen like that.

01:01:32 Speaker_10
And that's kind of crazy because they don't have much time and they're kind of manufacturing a thing. So like they're going to try everything. It's like a desperado time. This is part of the problem with right now.

01:01:46 Speaker_01
I would have thought they would have learned that lesson the last election because they tried this shit and it backfired massively. That's why Zuckerberg is now stepping back from it. I don't know if you saw Jeff Bezos's article in The Washington Post.

01:01:58 Speaker_01
Yeah, I did. It feels to me like, at least among those guys, the tide is turning. They don't seem to be keen to interfere in anything like the way that they did before.

01:02:07 Speaker_04
And also as well, just a final point, it's not like the Dems don't have form for this as well. Look what they did to Bernie in 2016. So you just go, what, again and again and again you're going to do it? How are people going to have faith in your party?

01:02:21 Speaker_10
Yeah, but people don't look at that. Isn't that wild? They don't look at the idea that Bernie was getting too popular. And that was the first experience that I really had with getting attacked by the mainstream news.

01:02:33 Speaker_10
CNN was saying that Bernie was on my show, that my show was sexist and racist or whatever the fuck it was. And, you know, that Bernie was doing a terrible thing by coming on my show.

01:02:47 Speaker_10
And that was when I saw, I was like, oh, they're trying to get rid of Bernie. Like, this is really interesting. Like, why would they turn, like, you have the most popular podcast in the country. Why wouldn't he want to express his ideas?

01:02:59 Speaker_10
to the world because they didn't want him and he was appealing after that kind of a conversation and you're like Oh, so you're just gonna take a fraction of a penny off of speculative trades and you'll be able to fund all these things like education and really can you really do that and I was like Okay, tell me what you can do.

01:03:17 Speaker_10
Like you've been around this fucking rodeo for a long-ass time maybe this guy's got a way of looking at things that is Maybe it's maybe it'll work And then I saw the machine. And then they got him out of the primaries.

01:03:30 Speaker_10
I was like, Whoa, this is kind of crazy. And This episode is brought to you by Paramount Network. Sunday, November 10th is the epic return of Yellowstone and it's only on Paramount Network. What will become of the Dutton family?

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01:05:34 Speaker_10
There's no safe like SimpliSafe. They're willing to do that. They did it with RFK, right? They would not let him have a primary. They wouldn't allow him to compete against Joe Biden, no fucking way.

01:05:47 Speaker_10
They had one guy and that was Joe Biden until it wasn't. And then when it wasn't, it was like, okay. Kamala, you gotta be it. And then they just went hard pushing her through. And it worked really good until some of these interviews. Right.

01:06:02 Speaker_10
Because those interview things are just a super unnatural way to talk. You know, you have live cameras in front of you and all these people and already she's got to be aware of how many people are hating on her. She has to be aware.

01:06:16 Speaker_10
She has to be aware of how many people don't think she deserves a spot. She just got in. Joe, can I ask you something?

01:06:23 Speaker_01
Who's the they? Right? This is the thing I'm genuinely wondering. Who's the they that's trying to get Bernie not to run? Who's the they?

01:06:31 Speaker_10
Well, first of all, it's the DNC. Clearly. If you read Donna Rice's book.

01:06:37 Speaker_01
But there's got to be like one guy or one gal at the top of that, right?

01:06:40 Speaker_10
I don't think so. I think there's an organization. I think, you know, you've got your Nancy Pelosi's and all the people that are in power.

01:06:46 Speaker_10
And one thing to consider if you're thinking about like, well, why would they want Kamala Harris over anybody else? Because first of all, everybody who works in the administration right now is in the Biden-Harris administration.

01:06:57 Speaker_10
They would like to keep those jobs.

01:06:59 Speaker_02
Mm-hmm.

01:06:59 Speaker_10
I'd like to keep this job What do I have to do to keep this job? And those are essentially the people that are running the show because she's busy and he's not there So like those people want to keep their job.

01:07:10 Speaker_10
So that's what you're experiencing right now, but man, you know, sorry Francis just to finish.

01:07:15 Speaker_01
Yeah, like it sounds like a trite and rather obvious thing to say but You're running to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world, right? You've got to be able to fucking talk man

01:07:29 Speaker_10
Yes, yes.

01:07:31 Speaker_01
We don't even say this because it's so fucking obvious, but you've got to be able to communicate. Well, that's why we have primaries, right?

01:07:39 Speaker_10
Because being a leader is a little bit more than having qualifications, right? It's being able to execute in real time under pressure. That's what those debates are all about. It's not just about who's got the better ideas.

01:07:51 Speaker_10
You could have them both write an article and find out who's got the better ideas. It's about seeing them kind of perform under pressure and respond under pressure. We want to see how you handle the cooker. That's why we like those crowds.

01:08:04 Speaker_10
You know, when you do those debates in front of crowds, it's a bigger cooker. You know, we're trying to figure out whether or not you can handle it. And by having no primary, and having her just go right through. And then keeping RFK Jr.

01:08:16 Speaker_10
away from Biden, even before that, like, this does not give a lot of people faith that you are following the ideals that this country was founded on.

01:08:26 Speaker_10
And if you're just, if you're going on your own way, just because you want to win, okay, you've kind of taken over this system and subverted it.

01:08:34 Speaker_01
You've changed it. Well, let's say you get elected though. You're going to be sitting across from Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin.

01:08:40 Speaker_07
Right.

01:08:43 Speaker_01
If you can't fucking talk, how's that gonna go?

01:08:46 Speaker_10
Well, good thing they don't speak English.

01:08:48 Speaker_09
Take what she said and make it sound brilliant in the translator.

01:08:53 Speaker_10
It's gonna make even less sense translated, believe me. They're not worried at all. But also, they have been doing that job for how long? How long has Putin been in charge of Russia? How many years now?

01:09:02 Speaker_01
Since 1999, 25 years.

01:09:03 Speaker_10
Okay, 25 years being a leader of Russia, and Xi Jinping controls China with an iron fist, and he's been doing that for how long? I don't know, but a long time. A long time.

01:09:12 Speaker_10
So you have people, that's one of the vulnerabilities of American politics is its strength. And one of the strengths is that you don't have someone who stays in and just keeps running things and becomes a dictator.

01:09:24 Speaker_10
You have to get out of there after eight years at most. The bad part about it is every four fucking years we have someone who's new doing the hardest job in the world that they've never done it before.

01:09:35 Speaker_10
Like, even Trump said, at the beginning of his term, he did not know how to appoint people, he didn't know who to trust, and he trusted a bunch of people he shouldn't have trusted, and he put a bunch of people in there that he shouldn't have put in.

01:09:45 Speaker_10
So, four years of that, he got a handle on it, and now he has a completely different perspective. Why? Because he did the job already. Because he's already been in there, running it. He's a businessman.

01:09:58 Speaker_10
It's like, I see why this is fucking up and I need to get smarter people in here. And so what does he do? He talks to Chamath about being the head of the FDA. He talks to Elon about coming up with some government efficiency agency.

01:10:12 Speaker_10
He talks to RFK about taking care of health care.

01:10:15 Speaker_10
he's like delegating to people that are very good at it now and like some these people that could actually impart a real change not like a sort of a fugazi change where you just like put on a different mask no a real change of the system and that's one of the reasons why the resistance against it is so hard because so many people are going to be out of work

01:10:37 Speaker_04
and you know what i found really interesting looking at the democrats with you look back at the bernie 2016 thing they didn't appoint bernie they appointed their person hillary right trump took a lot of bernie's talking points and went on and won the election and you and because it spoke to the average american

01:10:56 Speaker_04
and the average American felt no connection with Hillary whatsoever. So you're actually going, if you had just got and been fair, Bernie might actually have won. He might actually have won because he had cut through with the average American.

01:11:11 Speaker_04
But they didn't want that, they appointed their person, and then they ended up losing. And then they had a tantrum and said it was Russia interference and all the rest of it. No, it was you.

01:11:21 Speaker_04
You stopped the person who actually could have won the election for you, who could have cut through to the average American. You didn't want that, and you screwed it up for yourself. And then you had a tantrum at the end of it, blaming everyone.

01:11:34 Speaker_10
And then there was also the polls, right? The polls had her winning, like by a huge margin. I think on election night, it was like a 90% chance she was going to be the president, something crazy. So for him to show that the polls were bullshit,

01:11:48 Speaker_10
That it's good in a way, but it's also like now they're going to tighten things down significantly. If the same sort of apparatus that would keep a guy like Bernie Sanders out or a guy like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. out, they're not playing fair.

01:12:03 Speaker_10
They're not interested in playing fair. They're interested in winning. Whatever the fuck it takes to get through this thing and win. They want to keep their jobs. They're engaging in corporate warfare or legal fair.

01:12:16 Speaker_10
It's like they're weaponizing the justice system to go after their opponent. They're doing everything they can. All of the things. What's your sense of how it's going to go? I have zero idea. Zero idea.

01:12:28 Speaker_10
I do not like that the people are suing to make sure that voter ID isn't required. People are suing to stop people from using ID to vote. That's the only reason why you would do that is you want people to vote that shouldn't be voting.

01:12:46 Speaker_10
That's the only reason. That doesn't make any sense.

01:12:48 Speaker_01
You know, we've been here a week now. I've had to show ID to get into a bar, to rent a car, to rent a hotel room. Like, yeah, this is ridiculous. Everyone has fucking ID.

01:12:58 Speaker_10
But the saying it's racist to require ID is so crazy, or it's bad for poor rural Americans to require ID. That's crazy. They have cars. Everyone has a car.

01:13:08 Speaker_01
I saw some data on the internet, I might be wrong, but it showed that ethnic minorities actually have a higher support for ID for voting than white people.

01:13:17 Speaker_10
Probably because they went through it to get a fucking ID. Right? Ethnic minorities went through it, became American citizens, actually got the legal right to vote. They're proud of it. And they're like, hey, do what I did. Don't just cheat.

01:13:29 Speaker_10
You guys are cheating.

01:13:30 Speaker_01
Seems like a reasonable point. That's so reasonable.

01:13:33 Speaker_10
But anybody who would say that that's not reasonable only wants to win. Right? You know, I'm pretty left of center for the most part. And I see that. I'm like, that's crazy. You can't. That doesn't make any sense at all. You can't say people.

01:13:49 Speaker_10
don't need IDs because it's racist or it's whatever it is, it's classist.

01:13:55 Speaker_04
And the thing is, they talk about classist, right? And I used to work when I was teaching, I used to work in a lot of deprived communities, really, really, like, people were struggling.

01:14:05 Speaker_04
If people made it to the end of the week with food on the table and they paid their bills, that was a win.

01:14:10 Speaker_04
that was an absolute win and having worked in those communities those people are more anti-illegal immigration than the inverted commas elites because illegal immigration brings down their wages it brings down it brings down their ability to earn it means that the jobs that they do get obliterated and they can no longer afford to feed their families

01:14:35 Speaker_04
it's basic economics so this idea that oh you know immigration is a right-wing issue it's bullshit immigration is actually a left-wing issue and you look at all staunch what you would consider to be old-school lefties they are all no we need to control immigration to protect the rights and wages of workers it's why when we had brexit in our country people said oh it's right wing

01:15:01 Speaker_04
It wasn't. I know so many blue-collar guys who voted Brexit. They weren't racist. They weren't any of those things.

01:15:08 Speaker_04
But as one of them explained to me, he was like, look Francis, I've got no problem with immigration, but at this point it just feels like my wages are getting lower and lower and lower. I've got a kid on the way. I can't afford to live on this.

01:15:21 Speaker_04
And to then smear that person as right-wing, It's obscene.

01:15:26 Speaker_10
It's also you're giving power to the people that take advantage of these illegal immigrants, air quotes, because they can get those people to work for less money. So you're empowering bad people to use cheap, illegal labor.

01:15:41 Speaker_10
And that becomes a problem because they'd use it all the time, especially there's no inspections. I mean, how many different plants have been busted across the country using illegal aliens? It happens all the time.

01:15:51 Speaker_10
Construction sites happens all the time. In fact, Tim Dillon said that that was one of the, he believes, one of the motivations of having the border so porous. He thinks it's to get cheap labor. because it's hard to get cheap labor.

01:16:05 Speaker_10
So if you're working a construction site and you've got a bunch of illegals working for you, they have no rights.

01:16:11 Speaker_10
They can work for a fraction of the minimum wage, and it's way more money than they were getting when they were in Mexico, and then you're putting them up in a house where they all live together. They're pickled peach. They're fucking happy as shit.

01:16:24 Speaker_10
They can't believe they're in America, and they're actually making money, and there's a road to at least some level of prosperity that exists here. So they'll work for less money.

01:16:34 Speaker_10
So you're empowering scumbags to pay people below, you know, standard wages.

01:16:41 Speaker_10
And then you're crippling all the people that are the workers who don't have any say, who are illegally, who are, you know, they demand they know what they're supposed to get.

01:16:51 Speaker_10
They demand fair wages and health insurance and all the things that you should get employees.

01:16:54 Speaker_04
yeah and it's also as well look my mom's my mom's venezuelan so and i i've got family in this country i know a lot of venezuelan people in this country and then i see what illegal venezuelans are doing like el tren de aragua that gang i like how you rolled your cars i always make fun of him for that

01:17:15 Speaker_04
I can tell you this for a fact, every single Venezuelan who came here legally, works hard, went through the hoops,

01:17:31 Speaker_04
to escape Venezuela, to create a better life for themselves and their family, are utterly mortified and horrified at the actions of those criminals and what is happening in this country.

01:17:43 Speaker_04
Because not only is it terrible for the victims, but it also reflects badly on us. Like, you now go on Venezuelan and people think, oh what, like that criminal gang?

01:17:52 Speaker_10
Well, it's also weird that it's taking place in what they call a sanctuary city, where the cops are kind of, they're handcuffed as to what they can do with these people.

01:18:01 Speaker_10
And one of the weirdest ones was someone was having a conversation with this woman where they were talking about these gangs. I forget who it was. It might have been JD Vance. I forget who it was.

01:18:12 Speaker_10
But the woman was saying that it's only a couple of apartment complexes that have been taken over. Who was that with? I think it was J.D. Vance.

01:18:20 Speaker_09
Yeah.

01:18:21 Speaker_10
And he was like, do you hear yourself? Right. In the United States of America, armed gangs from Venezuela have taken over a couple of apartment buildings in your city. And you think it's not a big deal? You're trying to minimize that? How crazy that is?

01:18:35 Speaker_10
That illegal aliens who came across, who are armed to the tits, are part of a dangerous, enormous, organized gang, have taken over apartment buildings and are extorting all the people that live there. And you don't think that's a problem?

01:18:48 Speaker_01
That's wild and if you say that they go, that's a right-wing talking point. That's what are we fucking talking about?

01:18:53 Speaker_10
What are we talking about? What if your mom lives in that building? Like what are you talking about? That's crazy You're you're saying crazy things.

01:19:00 Speaker_01
It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't and you know, I we were in LA last year And because I have a Russian name, you know all the Lyft and uber drivers in LA. They're all Armenian, right? So they all speak Russian. They recognize my name.

01:19:12 Speaker_01
So they talk to me in Russian the The guys who came in the 90s, they all came legally, they got their documentation and everything. One guy was telling me he smuggled his 83-year-old father, who's disabled, in a wheelchair through the southern border.

01:19:29 Speaker_01
Like, all the guys that are coming now are coming through the southern border, they're not getting documentation. Why would you bother? Why would you bother? And that, you can't... Americans are the most pro-immigration people that I've ever seen.

01:19:40 Speaker_01
But I also think when you have high levels of illegal immigration, that undermines people's confidence in the entire system. And the worst thing is it doesn't make any logical sense.

01:19:51 Speaker_01
Can anyone explain to you why it is beneficial to America to have an open border? What is the benefit to Americans?

01:19:58 Speaker_10
I think 84% of Americans don't agree with it. Well no shit. I think it's a large number of Americans don't agree with it and yet it's happening and the real fear is that it's being used to buy votes. Right.

01:20:10 Speaker_04
That's the real fear. Do you believe that though?

01:20:13 Speaker_10
It's a great strategy if I wanted to buy votes I mean if I was a sociopath right which is what a corporation really is right is a psychopath How do they isn't that there's a great book about that right?

01:20:23 Speaker_10
Yeah, defining corporation as a psychopath as we talked about before this need to constantly grow, and this obligation to your shareholders to do whatever it takes to make the most amount of money.

01:20:36 Speaker_10
If you were a corporation and you wanted to control the whole country, what would you do?

01:20:40 Speaker_10
Well, I would incentivize people to vote one way, and I would move them in and make their life way better than it ever was before, and then let them in, and the other side saying, we're going to deport you.

01:20:51 Speaker_10
then the other side's definitely not who you're going to vote for. So now all I have to do is let you vote. So I can either let you vote by telling you how you don't need ID, just go ahead and vote.

01:21:02 Speaker_10
I can do it by offering amnesty to a certain amount of people. And then there's this thing that they keep saying that these people are here legally. But the way they're here legally is a new thing.

01:21:13 Speaker_10
And this new thing that they started doing during COVID is they use this shipping app to schedule amnesty meetings now. So they allow you to get into the country with this app that was really only for shipping. Pull that app up again, Jamie.

01:21:28 Speaker_10
So this app was originally used, so like say if you came here from England or whatever and you wanted to sell some stuff, you could be here for a while while you're shipping and bringing your stuff over.

01:21:39 Speaker_10
This is like a way that you could register so they know where you are and then you could leave. So now they changed it during COVID and made it so this app now allows you to schedule an entrance into the country.

01:21:51 Speaker_10
So you don't have to have, there's no vetting, there's no checking on you, there's no who you are, but through this app, you could schedule a time. They'll compensate you, they put you up, they bring you to places. This is the U.S.

01:22:03 Speaker_10
Customs Border Protection app. CBP One, Mobile Passport Control, MPC, and MyCBP. So it was launched in October 2020. CBP One is a free app that provides access to a variety of CBP services.

01:22:20 Speaker_10
It uses guided questions to help users find the right services, forms, or applications. CBP One was originally used to help commercial trucking companies schedule cargo inspections.

01:22:32 Speaker_10
In 2023, the app was expanded to allow unauthorized migrants to request asylum and book appointments at the US-Mexico border.

01:22:41 Speaker_01
But that's good. You want people to book an asylum appointment and so that you could make sure whether they're legitimate claimants or not. That's a good thing, right? The problem is when people are allowed in and they don't have a good case, right?

01:22:53 Speaker_01
Because America would let some people in who claim asylum. I think the American people are very generous in that way.

01:22:58 Speaker_10
I wonder how many people they deny that try to use that app.

01:23:01 Speaker_01
That's a different question.

01:23:02 Speaker_10
The real question is why are so many of them showing up in swing states? That seems a little suspect. If you're moving people to swing states and then you have people like Nancy Pelosi and I forget who else it was.

01:23:16 Speaker_10
They were making the argument that we need immigrants because Americans are not having enough babies. This is Elon's argument.

01:23:23 Speaker_10
He's made this population collapse argument, which doesn't seem right to people because they're stuck in traffic, but it is right. If you really pay attention to the amount of people that are actually having children,

01:23:32 Speaker_10
And what it's going to be like in the future. South Korea apparently is a gigantic disaster. Japan as well.

01:23:38 Speaker_01
We had this guy Stephen Shaw on the show to talk about. He did a great documentary about it. He went all around the world looking at population decline and it is a real fucking problem.

01:23:47 Speaker_10
It's a real problem. It's a real problem, and so their argument, and I think it's a bullshit argument, it's like we're letting these people in because Americans aren't having any babies. Like, oh, you just figured that out?

01:23:57 Speaker_10
And you're moving them to swing states?

01:23:59 Speaker_01
This is such bullshit, though, because America has a legal immigration system. You could have billions of people coming to the United States legally.

01:24:08 Speaker_01
If you needed babies, there's a queue of a billion people who would come to America legally if you let them. That is not an argument for legal immigration.

01:24:14 Speaker_10
How much can you learn about someone in a short period of time when they're coming to the border? Because there's those numbers of, I think it's over the last 10 years, how many murderers have come through, how many rapists have come through.

01:24:25 Speaker_10
It's staggering numbers, right? And then there's the unreported ones. A lot of these gang members, they snuck in. The coast is wide open. The coast is weird. You could be in a boat and beach yourself in San Diego and no one knows what the fuck to do.

01:24:37 Speaker_10
And then you jump out and you're in a van. There's a lot of that stuff goes on. So it's like, how many people are actually getting in that aren't reported? That's the real question.

01:24:46 Speaker_10
And they know that they've caught people that are on the terrorist watch list. They know they've caught people at the border that absolutely are up to no good. So it's like, how many people didn't they catch? How many people snuck through?

01:25:00 Speaker_10
in danger are we because of that? How much of an October 7th type attack could happen in the United States because of that? To say no percentage is crazy. So to say that it's possible means that you've been derelict in your duty.

01:25:13 Speaker_10
You haven't saved us from the potential of us being invaded.

01:25:18 Speaker_04
And it's also as well, then what you are naturally going to get, if that is a concern, a major concern for the average working person, you are going to get a politician who is going to address those concerns and is going to make it front and center of their campaign.

01:25:34 Speaker_04
Of course they are, because that is politics and that's how it works and that's a good thing. You need those people to address the concerns of ordinary people.

01:25:43 Speaker_04
But then they come in and then they start going, this is a Nazi rally, this is so... And you're just going, oh, not only do you not want to have the conversation, not only do you want to justify your ideas, you want to bully, smear and harass those people with perfectly legitimate concerns.

01:26:02 Speaker_04
In order to shut them up. So what you're going to get is what happens when someone has a very real concern about something and you smear them and you call them horrendous names. Those concerns aren't going to go anywhere.

01:26:16 Speaker_04
They're going to get really angry. They're going to fester. And eventually it will turn into something nasty. Yes.

01:26:24 Speaker_04
by doing this and continually ratcheting up the police like a pressure cooker continually ratcheting up the pressure eventually it's going to boil over and i look at them and i think to myself do you know the forces that you are messing with do you understand what you're doing

01:26:43 Speaker_04
Because eventually this is going to turn nasty. And I really don't want it to. I hope it doesn't. But you can only do this play so many times before people go, you know what? You're going to do that? Fuck you. And this is what I'm going to do.

01:26:58 Speaker_10
Yeah. And they run the risk of that in Aurora, Colorado. They really do. They run the risk of that with these gangs taking over apartment buildings and them not stopping it. All of it's very scary because that's what everyone's worried about.

01:27:10 Speaker_10
What everyone's worried is that our level of crime is going to rise up because you're bringing people from crime-ridden areas that have criminal backgrounds and you're letting them in without vetting them and you're going to increase the crime and you're going to increase organized crime and cartel crime.

01:27:21 Speaker_10
That scares the fuck out of people, and it should. And you can't let that in just because you want to win.

01:27:26 Speaker_10
You can't let that in as a side effect of this goal that you have to bring in these people that are probably wonderful people that just want a better life, and they take this crazy journey where they walk on foot across the country.

01:27:39 Speaker_10
I would do it, too. I would 100% do it, too, and I think you would as well.

01:27:43 Speaker_10
If you were living in those countries and the Red Cross gave you a map and said, this is what you've got to do, you've got to make it up here and go to these people that give you a cell phone, like, okay, you would do it. Why wouldn't you do it?

01:27:53 Speaker_10
If they know you're going to get let in and then you get money and food stamps and they'll put you up at a house? What? Of course you'd do it.

01:27:59 Speaker_10
And then you have like these places like New York City where these enormous luxury hotels are completely occupied with immigrants. What was that movie that that luxury hotel was in? There's like a famous movie.

01:28:12 Speaker_10
Is it the Jennifer Lopez movie, Made in Manhattan? Is that the movie where they have those people? hold up, find out if that's it. But it's like a famous luxury hotel. And then all the poor people in America are like, hey, motherfucker, what about us?

01:28:29 Speaker_10
What about us? What about the veterans? What about homeless people? What about all these people that are down on their luck? What about all these people that are single moms, all these people that have no money? What about them?

01:28:38 Speaker_01
What about them? Well, this is the question I'd be asking. You mentioned 84% of Americans are concerned about this. If I was a Democrat, That's what I'd be asking.

01:28:45 Speaker_10
Here it is, the Roosevelt Hotel. Wow. That is crazy. The Roosevelt Hotel is a famous hotel, and look how beautiful it is on the inside.

01:28:55 Speaker_06
It was just over a year ago when the Roosevelt Hotel became the one-stop shop.

01:29:02 Speaker_10
So this entire hotel, so if you're a hotel guy, right, and Homelands, whoever it is, that runs this program comes along and says, hey, we'll fully occupy your hotel. 24-7 will give you X amount of money.

01:29:21 Speaker_10
Maybe it's more money than you would get if you were at full occupation. You're like, okay, sounds like a great deal. And so now you have housing for all these people, and then the people that are living here are very upset, and they should be.

01:29:34 Speaker_10
You see it all the time. People in Chicago are fucking fed up, man. They're like, we've been trying to solve the crime and the poverty problem here forever.

01:29:44 Speaker_10
City would not say how much it costs to keep the facility running every day, but Immigrant Affairs Commissioner Manuel Castro emphasized how the cost should be coming from the federal government.

01:29:54 Speaker_10
We hope that the federal government does more in support of asylum seekers.

01:29:58 Speaker_01
It's like what you said, the federal government is giving money to hotel owners, and so everybody's happy. Everybody's happy, except the people of America.

01:30:06 Speaker_10
Well, except the people that have to deal with the problems that come along with allowing people in that aren't vetted, especially people that come from a place where it's violent, and crime is rampant and normal.

01:30:18 Speaker_01
Well, this is what I was going to say. It's like if I were one of those Democrats who secretly harbored these concerns, the question I'd be asking is, why isn't my party dealing with this, right?

01:30:31 Speaker_01
If all of America basically agrees this is a problem, why is it a party political issue? Why isn't it a thing that both parties agree on, by the way, as they used to?

01:30:41 Speaker_01
All the major Democrat figures 20 years ago, I had a whole chapter in my book about it, they all used to say exactly what Donald Trump is saying now.

01:30:49 Speaker_10
Yeah. Yeah, they do. And especially Barack Obama. You know, he talked very Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, they all talked about the importance of a secure, safe border, right? It's always been an issue because you want to protect American citizens.

01:31:02 Speaker_10
It's not racist. Like, I'm all for immigration. I just think maybe we need to spend more money on letting people in legally. But how do you vet those folks? That's the real question. Like, how much paperwork do they have? How much of a

01:31:14 Speaker_01
It's pretty thorough man, like Francis and I have had to apply for visas to come.

01:31:17 Speaker_10
Right, but you guys did it legally the right way.

01:31:19 Speaker_01
That's what I'm saying, but they look everywhere man, like every cavity is fucking examined, you know what I mean?

01:31:24 Speaker_10
But even people coming through, I mean, if they're coming through the wrong way, and you want to vet them, how can you even?

01:31:31 Speaker_01
You can. Can you? Yeah. Really? I don't think it's beyond the American system.

01:31:36 Speaker_10
But if you're from a third world country with very little paperwork, how do they do that?

01:31:43 Speaker_01
Interviews, I would guess. They try and find out where you live.

01:31:46 Speaker_10
Oh my God, how much resources would that require?

01:31:48 Speaker_01
Yeah, but compare that to how much resources it requires to host people in a five-star fucking hotel. Yeah, very good point.

01:31:54 Speaker_10
You could be talking to those people the entire time. Say, where are you from, Bob?

01:32:00 Speaker_01
America would save a lot of money if it put a lot more money into finding out who's coming here making sure people have a legitimate claim they've applied legally and Then you're spending the money where it's supposed to be spent and then you've got a safe fucking country.

01:32:13 Speaker_04
Yeah, and I And this is a really important point when people go, because they do the argument about, look, we have to let these people in. You're letting people smugglers flourish. You're letting sex traffickers flourish.

01:32:28 Speaker_04
How many of those poor women and kids are getting brought over and basically being turned into a sex slave? They've got no identity. They've got no rights. How many of them are now in this country? No one knows.

01:32:40 Speaker_10
It's not zero. It's not zero. It's a real concern. And that's not something that's being brought up. Instead, they're bringing up Tony Hinchcliffe's joke. Right. Because this is an inconvenient political issue that is very dangerous.

01:32:52 Speaker_10
The Republicans harp on it. The Democrats ignore it and minimize it. It's a giant issue. The human smuggling thing is a giant issue. There's something like 300,000 kids that are missing that came across the border. They have no idea where they are.

01:33:06 Speaker_10
There's so many people. I mean, what is the number over the last four years that have come across illegally? I mean, what do you what's even the estimate? What's the estimated number of crossings?

01:33:16 Speaker_10
It's the highest ever that's ever been in modern history.

01:33:19 Speaker_01
I think under Biden has been around 10 million total from what I've read, but Jamie, I'm sure we'll check on that.

01:33:24 Speaker_10
That is five Austins.

01:33:27 Speaker_04
I mean, what effect is that having on society? Because also, there's a law of unintended consequences. What's going to be the effect, not only now, but 5 years down the line, 10 years down the line, 20 years down the line?

01:33:39 Speaker_01
Do they have jobs for these people?

01:33:40 Speaker_10
Here's the thing.

01:33:42 Speaker_01
Well, they do for like $2 an hour, yeah.

01:33:44 Speaker_10
Right, but here's the thing, like if there was more American manufacturing, and this is one of the things that Trump really wants to pursue, is incentivizing American manufacturing and putting tariffs on things that are brought in from overseas.

01:33:57 Speaker_10
If there's more American manufacturing, first of all, one of the things that was exposed during COVID, it was a big one, was how much we rely on stuff that comes from other countries, you know, especially medications.

01:34:07 Speaker_10
A lot of it was coming from China. And there's a lot of equipment, a lot of things got stuck. So here it is. What's the number? Let's say the number came in.

01:34:15 Speaker_06
11 million since 2019, I think. 11 million. Yeah. Not blaming, but saying a lot has to do with in 2023, the end of title 42, where they couldn't expel people for COVID related reasons anymore. And then that.

01:34:31 Speaker_10
How many people they tested for COVID that coming across the Rio Grande River with a backpack? Right. Shut the fuck up.

01:34:36 Speaker_01
The one thing I wish the right did better on this though is to talk in more humane terms about it. It's always, there is a kind of like these fucking illegals.

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01:36:04 Speaker_10
We would all do what they're doing. We would. Yeah, and the way they talk about it there, you know, like Trump Trump did that too. They're eating the dogs.

01:36:13 Speaker_10
They're eating the cats also, a lot of them are very hard workers if you talk to Springfield, Ohio one of the things that these people that Employ some of these people are saying is they're so thankful that they have this opportunity there Haitians are just like everybody else man.

01:36:29 Speaker_10
They're just fucking people that want to do better and And a lot of these people that hire these folks are saying they're super hard workers, they're doing jobs that nobody wants, they're very thankful for it, it's an opportunity for them.

01:36:39 Speaker_10
And then also you have bad people. Just like all groups of people that come from war-torn, fucked up places, and they come over here, you're going to have good ones and bad ones.

01:36:49 Speaker_01
I'm just saying, I just wish that IR, which is perfectly, like what you're saying, Francis, this is the point you made very well, is like, you just wish that IR was directed at the people who are allowing this to happen instead of the people who are coming, because that's not gonna make things better.

01:37:04 Speaker_10
What we need is, we need to vet people, but also we need protections to make sure that people aren't being forced to work for inhumane wages.

01:37:12 Speaker_10
And if we start doing that in America, we're no different than Foxconn in China with the fucking suicide nets around the building. We're allowing people to take advantage of people that have no hope.

01:37:25 Speaker_10
One of the great things about American manufacturing, if you have a plant in America and you have regulations in terms of what

01:37:33 Speaker_10
they're supposed to be paid, and healthcare, and the amount of hours they work, you can ensure that you don't have to feel bad about buying a thing from those people.

01:37:43 Speaker_10
If you buy whatever, something that you know is made in America for sure, like if you buy a Ford truck that's made in Ohio or wherever they make them, hopefully It's made in America.

01:37:56 Speaker_10
So then way you don't have to feel bad that like That's what's going on with all these people coming across here Ironically, they moved so many jobs and so many things over to Mexico to get people to work for almost nothing So that these fucking corporations can make a little bit more money and we allowed that to happen And when we allowed that to happen, they killed American manufacturing.

01:38:17 Speaker_10
They killed it. That's that Roger and me movie the Have you ever seen Michael Moore's documentary on it about Flint, Michigan?

01:38:23 Speaker_10
It's a great documentary, but they just pulled out of Michigan, where they were making all the cars, and then these people have nothing. They were check to check while they were working there, and then instant extreme poverty.

01:38:37 Speaker_10
It's a horrifying documentary.

01:38:39 Speaker_04
And what these people don't realize is the effects that has on the community, not only the poverty element of it, but work brings dignity, Joe. It brings purpose. Yes.

01:38:51 Speaker_04
it doesn't matter like you know the level of job that you have but if you're going out particularly for men and you're doing a job maybe you hate it but you know what you're earning enough money you can feed your kids you can feed your family you go i'm doing my job as a man

01:39:06 Speaker_04
I am doing what I am meant to do. When you take those jobs, which a lot of like, for instance, in our country, in the UK, a lot of these places were built around the factory, the plant. They were the literal hub of the community.

01:39:20 Speaker_04
And then you had bars and cafes and restaurants around that. When you take that out of a community, you're ripping the literal soul out of it. And all of a sudden, these people who once had purpose and dignity have got nothing.

01:39:34 Speaker_04
And it doesn't matter, even if you give them money and you go, look, here's your benefits. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants a life that's aimless. Nobody wants a life where you are dependent on handouts.

01:39:46 Speaker_10
This is what scares me about the future, really, because of AI.

01:39:50 Speaker_10
What scares me about the future, and Andrew Yang was really the first guy to bring this up, he was talking about automation, and I think that automation and AI, they built a whole road in China in a very short period of time, just using roads, or using robots, rather, and AI.

01:40:07 Speaker_10
Did you see that? I didn't know. They're much more advanced than we are with drone technology. Like, have you seen some of the light show, drone shows that they do in China? They're unbelievable. Unbelievable. Like dragons moving across the sky.

01:40:23 Speaker_10
It's incredible. All these drones moving in synchronicity. They're all coordinated by AI and computers, and they're flying together, making objects in the sky. It's beautiful.

01:40:34 Speaker_10
So their AI technology in their drone technology in their automation is already allowed them Resurfacing project it says here it is. So this is no humans, man This is all robots and they did this shit in record time.

01:40:48 Speaker_10
They they did the whole road Like if you're a guy who this is your livelihood you should be fucking terrified and that was the the source of this recent

01:41:01 Speaker_10
This this recent thing that was going on with the longshoremen's union right because the longshoremen we're gonna go on strike and they're like, hey We're gonna get fucking replaced.

01:41:09 Speaker_10
We know what's going on here We want some protections in place because they see what's happening in other countries. I think it's is it Singapore that has a completely? Automated system for removing cargo and you watch it and it works 24 hours a day.

01:41:23 Speaker_10
You don't have to pay it It doesn't have kids no injuries. No injuries and it's caught and it's really good They're fucking super effective and they're gonna get more effective.

01:41:31 Speaker_10
So you have less mistakes, you know, you're you completely eliminate human error

01:41:36 Speaker_10
You know and then once they iron the systems out and they get them even better and better and more robust You're you're gonna have no need for so many people that are working. So what do you do you give them universal basic income?

01:41:48 Speaker_10
You tell them find something that gives you purpose like Oh Christ At the same time they have AI goggles and fucking fucking they're watching virtual reality all day And they're not even living in the world anymore.

01:41:59 Speaker_10
You're just getting a check from the government and free food and an AI girlfriend. Oh And an AI girlfriend that makes you kill yourself.

01:42:05 Speaker_04
So there are plus points.

01:42:07 Speaker_10
I mean, it could get really fucking strange in this country in a short amount of time.

01:42:13 Speaker_11
But you talk to these people, right? You talk to Elon. What does he say about stuff like that?

01:42:17 Speaker_10
They all think it's inevitable. I think they're all right. I don't think you could stop it.

01:42:21 Speaker_10
Unless something disastrous happens, like a nuclear war or some sort of a horrific natural disaster that kills the grid, we are probably just a decade away from an unrecognizable world. 2014 is not that different than 2024. It's kind of real similar.

01:42:40 Speaker_10
Cars look the same. You still have an iPhone. It's like, not that you still have a laptop. Like, how much is different? Your internet's a little faster. How much is different? Not that much. 2024 to 2034 is going to be fucking bananas.

01:42:54 Speaker_10
We could see a complete upheaval of society. If you have one party that's completely in control of the political process and there's, you know, like there's no room for a third party now because they've kind of boxed out the third party.

01:43:05 Speaker_10
There's libertarians, but like, good luck. Good luck. I voted for a couple of them. Good luck. They can't win, right? Maybe it could get to that point where Republicans can't win. That could be real.

01:43:17 Speaker_10
And then the Democrats are going to act just like all tyrants. All groups of people that have massive control over everything. They don't want to relinquish some control for the sake of democracy. Shut the fuck up.

01:43:29 Speaker_10
The only people that have ever did that were the Greeks. And they were on drugs. They were doing acid. And they said, hey, everybody should have a vote.

01:43:36 Speaker_04
You know, and if you have a populace that is basically just dependent on handouts, what you've got is a docile, defeated population.

01:43:45 Speaker_01
Yes. Dependent. They're dependent on you for survival.

01:43:48 Speaker_04
They're dependent on you for survival, so it's not even in their interest to challenge you.

01:43:52 Speaker_10
It's completely outside their interest. They have no leverage. They have no fuck you money.

01:43:58 Speaker_04
So what are they going to do? The thing that worries me is I was reading about the driving jobs and how many driving jobs there are in this country. And driving is still a very, very well-paid job in this country.

01:44:11 Speaker_04
If you're a lorry driver, you earn a really good salary in this country. And that's great. That is brilliant. But the moment automated driving comes in, that's a whole swathe of mainly men who have got nowhere to go.

01:44:25 Speaker_10
It's a very good point. It's millions of jobs. So they think it's inevitable, huh? Yeah, they think it's inevitable. Yeah. I agree with him. I don't know how we adjust to that.

01:44:34 Speaker_10
You know, human beings have had to make some major adjustments over the course of human history, right? Moving into cities, dealing with mechanized things like cars and trucks and trains. These are just massive adjustments that we had to make.

01:44:48 Speaker_10
But I don't think any of them are like this one. Yeah.

01:44:50 Speaker_01
This is the industrial revolution on steroids.

01:44:52 Speaker_10
Yeah. It's like, and it's also coming at the same time as transhumanism.

01:44:57 Speaker_10
It's coming at the same time as this potential integration with artificial intelligence that we're experiencing, augmented goggles, which is like the tip of the spear, and then you're going to eventually get chips.

01:45:11 Speaker_10
Once things like Neuralink and there's a few other competing programs, once they develop something that enhances human productivity, enhances your mental capacity, your ability to perform, maybe physical capacity,

01:45:26 Speaker_10
You know, they're going to be able to do things in our lifetime that are going to make being a regular human seem stupid. Just like being naked in the cold seems stupid. Like, why would you be naked? You could just be warm, you fucking idiot.

01:45:40 Speaker_10
Like, why are you out there freezing when you could have a nice down jacket on, you fucking moron? And that's what it's going to be like cognitively. Like, why would you want to be depressed when you can have clarity and enlightenment

01:45:51 Speaker_10
And you could have instantaneous access to the wireless grid as long as you don't have bad thinking, as long as you don't do anything that we don't like, as long as we don't have to shut you off.

01:46:01 Speaker_01
Well, there is a book about this, you know, right?

01:46:03 Speaker_10
Yeah. It seems. Have some Soma and chill the fuck out. Yeah. Especially because I read it in high school, I think, which was already 1984. So it's like, oh, this is bullshit. It's like space 1999. It didn't really work out that way.

01:46:19 Speaker_10
There was a TV show about people living in space in 1999 because that's what they thought. So in the 80s, when did Orwell write that book?

01:46:29 Speaker_04
It would have been... I think it came... 30ish? No, because he was in a sanatorium. No, he was dying of consumption TB at the time. I think it was 46 it came out.

01:46:39 Speaker_10
He wrote it while he was dying?

01:46:40 Speaker_04
Yeah, he wrote it. That's why it was kind of dark, man. Oh, 49 it came out.

01:46:44 Speaker_10
So he writes it right after the fascism of Nazi Germany and all that stuff. And Stalin. Yeah, and Stalin. Yeah. And so he writes this book and it just seems ludicrous at the time, but now it's like a prophecy.

01:46:59 Speaker_10
And especially the wrong think stuff like that is wild.

01:47:04 Speaker_04
You know, just touching on the AI thing, what's interesting about AI is it's also obliterating middle class jobs.

01:47:11 Speaker_10
Yes.

01:47:11 Speaker_04
Middle class jobs, like graphic designer pretty soon, that's going to be... Not just middle class, but all the coders. Yeah. All the coders are going to be gone. You're going to look at the law, accountancy. Why are you going to employ an accountant?

01:47:25 Speaker_04
When you've got an AI to do all your books. Yeah. You just feed it into the algorithm. It will sort it all through.

01:47:30 Speaker_10
Boom. My fear is that it's going to get to a point where why don't we use AI for government and have really objective government that doesn't have greed or lust or desire or the need for power, ego or to be validated.

01:47:43 Speaker_10
You know, it doesn't need any of those things. It doesn't ever tweet out. I hate Taylor Swift. It just fucking runs everything with the objective is to make the world better.

01:47:56 Speaker_10
And the objective is equal allocation of resources, particularly natural resources that are really all of ours. Why should we have these corporations that control all the oil when the oil's in the ground? The ground belongs to the humans.

01:48:09 Speaker_10
Why should anybody have an unbelievable amount of influence on everybody else just because they pull oil out of the ground? That seems crazy.

01:48:17 Speaker_04
Until it goes rogue and goes, you know what? Humans do a lot of damage to the planet.

01:48:23 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's the problem with being objective. You guys got to get your shit together or we're going to kill you all. It'll have a meeting with us and say, hey. We need to get the robbery, murder, rape rate down to zero.

01:48:35 Speaker_01
Let's put all the men in prison!

01:48:37 Speaker_10
If we don't, we're just gonna kill everybody. Oh man.

01:48:42 Speaker_04
You know, that's why you feel that I know, and people always hype up elections. They always hype up elections. Americans, you do show business in elections better than anyone. I went to that Trump rally. It's one of the greatest shows I've ever seen.

01:49:01 Speaker_10
You must not watch MSNBC because it's a Nazi rally.

01:49:05 Speaker_01
There was so many Israeli flags there, it was unbelievable.

01:49:08 Speaker_10
Yeah, there was a lot of Israeli flags.

01:49:09 Speaker_01
Israeli flags, loads of Jews, loads of people recognize us.

01:49:12 Speaker_10
Super hard to call it a Nazi flag with a lot of Israeli flags.

01:49:14 Speaker_01
It's just so silly, this bullshit.

01:49:17 Speaker_10
But that's what they're doing, they're just trying to win.

01:49:19 Speaker_01
They're trying to win. But you can't... words have fucking meaning, Joe. They do, yeah.

01:49:25 Speaker_01
They're supposed to and for a reason and that word it's supposed to have a very specific meaning And it's like it was a kind of a thing where like if someone said that about somebody you'd go like holy shit I better really make sure this guy isn't that I better really make sure this isn't that They used to be like oh my god.

01:49:40 Speaker_10
That guy's a Nazi like you want to follow him See where he's going to some secret meeting right? Oh my god. He's really a Nazi.

01:49:46 Speaker_01
It's so irresponsible It really grinds my gears that shit man. It's just I know you want to win, but this isn't winning This is making the whole thing fucking worse

01:49:54 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's not good. It's not good, and it also is not good for them, because all those mainstream media companies, all the MSNBCs of the world that are doing this kind of shit, you're going to lose more and more credibility.

01:50:08 Speaker_10
You're already hemorrhaging credibility. This is the reason why the Washington Post, why Jeff Bezos had to write that article. So we need more representation of conservative voices.

01:50:18 Speaker_10
We can't be just endorsing presidents because you all agree to one thing. and you want to educate the world. We're not activists. We're supposed to be journalists.

01:50:28 Speaker_10
This is the reason why this business is hemorrhaging money and lost amazing amounts of credibility. Stunning. I've never seen a time where more people have lost faith in mainstream news.

01:50:39 Speaker_04
But here's the thing, and you talk about this, it's one of the things you talk about, and you talk about it brilliantly. Words have changed their meaning. Words no longer mean what they used to.

01:50:48 Speaker_04
I saw this post from Mark Maron, and it's like he was going for the world record about trying to mention the word fascist every other sentence.

01:50:56 Speaker_04
And I'm going, and I'm sure, look, I'm sure Mark's a decent guy and whatever else, but I'm sure if you sat down with Mark and you go, Mark, explain to me what fascism is. What do you mean by it?

01:51:07 Speaker_10
It's virtue signaling. It's signaling to the tribe. It's what it is. It's the idea. And it's also, there's a lot of jealousy. Mark used to be at the top of the heap. He used to have the number one podcast. Now it's like it's not even the top 200.

01:51:19 Speaker_10
He was a great guy when he was number one. It's a lot of fun.

01:51:22 Speaker_04
He used to apologize to everybody for being a dick when he was younger.

01:51:27 Speaker_10
But look nuance is very important. It's very important with human beings and as soon as you like Conveniently categorize something as fascist and white supremacy. I think is another word.

01:51:37 Speaker_10
He likes to use You're being silly and you're ruining your own credibility. You're gonna get a bunch of people that agree with you Yeah, right on man, but they're silly too

01:51:46 Speaker_10
The we're just a bunch of human beings trying to coexist what we want out of this election is a greater country The country's supposed to be a team.

01:51:53 Speaker_10
That's what it's supposed to be It's the most amazing thing this idea that we're all in this together. We collectively we're a tribe of people But we because of our fucking stupid instincts to be on teams.

01:52:05 Speaker_10
We've divided ourselves right down the middle essentially, I mean this depending on who whose poll or what you want to read.

01:52:14 Speaker_10
It's kind of like pretty close down the middle and one side thinks the other side is the end of everything and the other side thinks the same. It's so stupid. It's so stupid and it's just, we don't have much time.

01:52:26 Speaker_10
Human beings live a hundred if you're lucky. I'm 57, so I'm three quarters of the way dead. If I'm lucky, if everything goes great, why spend any time on nonsense? Why spend any time just pledging allegiance to your tribe?

01:52:42 Speaker_10
Why not just try to have a perspective that will enhance this situation and let people understand that we're really over our skis. We're out of our fucking minds. We're really like foaming at the mouth here. There's important things.

01:52:56 Speaker_10
And the important thing is we've got to figure out a way that we don't have a nuclear war. We've got to figure out a way where we make it easier to make a living. We've got to figure out a way to make it safer for people.

01:53:06 Speaker_10
We have to figure out a way to secure the borders and make sure that we're not letting in terrorists. We've got to figure out a way to not have terror cells activated because it's going to be convenient politically.

01:53:18 Speaker_10
We've got to figure out a way to not have FBI agents inciting people to enter the Capitol building. We've got to figure out a way to, like, there's a lot of shit we have to figure out collectively as a group.

01:53:28 Speaker_04
And there's also the tragic element of it, and people don't talk about this tragic element enough. If you think about it, we live in an ever more atomized society. We hang out less, our social groups are getting smaller and smaller.

01:53:42 Speaker_04
That's just a fact of how society is going. Think about the people who've lost friends.

01:53:50 Speaker_04
look whose relationships broke up marriages broke up over politics yeah there's a guy right now in the uk waking up in a little flat somewhere and he's looking around and he went oh fuck i lost my relay my marriage i don't see my kids anymore because of brexit

01:54:08 Speaker_10
It's crazy. That's dumb. It's not just Brexit, it's over here. It's like if you're married to a Trump supporter and you're a Harris supporter and you're fighting over the dinner table, that person's the enemy. It happens to people all the time.

01:54:19 Speaker_10
Or people get red-pilled, you know, and then they sort of like want to leave their ideological group and then the other person that you're with, maybe a business partner, maybe Maybe your lover. They hate you now. You're part of the enemy.

01:54:35 Speaker_10
And a bunch of people that don't give a fuck about you. They don't care about you. And you've pledged allegiance to people that don't even know your name. They don't know a thing about you. And they're lying on TV every night.

01:54:47 Speaker_10
And you're still all in for them. You're making homemade signs, running out the door and holding this.

01:54:56 Speaker_01
What are you putting signs up on your lawn? But righteousness is such a drug, man. Like when we were standing in that line in New York, there was a guy that walked past and he was like, enjoy your fucking Nazi rally to like a family with young kids.

01:55:07 Speaker_01
You're not a good guy. You're not a good guy when you're doing that. I don't care what your politics is. You're not a good guy.

01:55:13 Speaker_10
You're not you feel good when you're shouting that you're not behaving in the right way It just gives cunts the ability to scream at people because they think they're right, you know Especially if you've already labeled those people Nazis, you know, enjoy your Nazi rally Like you could yell whatever you want at Nazis, you know, that was the whole thing back in the day remember punch a Nazi like okay, but who gets to determine who the Nazis are and

01:55:36 Speaker_10
If you're in World War II, yeah, you have to punch a Nazi. But if you're in Brooklyn, I bet that guy's not really a Nazi. He might just have a tie on.

01:55:46 Speaker_04
Or listen to this podcast.

01:55:48 Speaker_10
Yeah, he might be listening to this podcast.

01:55:49 Speaker_04
He might get punched on the subway.

01:55:54 Speaker_01
But you know what I would I would love Kamala Harris to come on this podcast.

01:55:57 Speaker_10
That's the podcast I want to see the most I would selection But I just I feel like very strongly that if it's gonna be done It has to be done like a regular podcast because that's the only way it works Surely works to just sit down and talk with somebody can't go to some ballroom and some hotel where they control everything and they have cameras ready and they want to edit stuff out it's like

01:56:18 Speaker_10
That's just too weird. It's not the same thing. Like, you go to see Colbert, you know, you're on his set, you don't ask him to make a set, like, at the White House. Like, you know, you're doing it where he does it.

01:56:29 Speaker_01
Totally. Yeah. But that is why I'm still, we've had a depressing conversation, I'm still excited, because that thing you're talking about, you know, Jeff Bezos, that's the market working.

01:56:39 Speaker_01
Your ratings are tanking, no one trusts you, no one buys your fucking newspaper. Okay, well, who's doing shit right? Let's have a look around. Who's successful? Oh, it's this. Okay. Maybe we need to do that thing you were talking about Gore Vidal Buckley.

01:56:52 Speaker_01
Maybe we need to actually have a conversation. Maybe we need to have I'd love for you to have Trump and Harrison here. That'd be interesting.

01:57:00 Speaker_10
Well, that's what I said to him. I said, what really should be the two of you sit down and have a conversation for as long as it takes. Just no, no moderator, no one there. Not even a moderate? Not you? I don't think I need to be in the way.

01:57:13 Speaker_10
It would be hilarious. How long would it take? Okay, how are you going to fix the economy? How are you going to fix the economy? Like, I want to do this. That was my idea.

01:57:25 Speaker_01
No time limit like the UFC back in the day.

01:57:28 Speaker_10
Yeah I mean that would be how you'd really like when you see two people on a panel and they're talking about things and one person really knows what they're talking about was Bill Maher or whatever when when that happens It's always fascinating to watch someone like way out of their league and they get exposed but that same person could be doing a softball interview and they look like a wizard a genius and

01:57:51 Speaker_10
Because they already have their predetermined answers to questions that have already been presented to them, so they prepare. And that's essentially what you've been getting a lot with Kamala Harris. You've been getting a lot of this prepared stuff.

01:58:02 Speaker_10
You know, well, I was born in a middle class family. And then she has this thing that she's going to say and, you know.

01:58:09 Speaker_04
yeah it's and you know what to me is i i would love to see this but broaden it out in society to me the most interesting conversations are when you talk with people who disagree with you who see the world in a different way yes because not that does two things not only do you learn something but number two you find out some of the things you think are bullshit

01:58:30 Speaker_04
Yeah, and they're wrong and then they go hang on actually that ain't true. Look at this.

01:58:35 Speaker_04
Look at this and you're like, oh wow Actually, you know what you're right So it makes your ideas stronger and you become a more fully rounded human being but that requires good faith.

01:58:45 Speaker_01
Yes Yeah, that requires good faith Those conversations don't happen if both of the people are playing to an audience people have a really hard time with good faith the problem with good faith is you also have to admit you lost and

01:58:56 Speaker_10
Yes, yeah, and people get so attached to an idea They say an idea and once they said it that as a part of their fucking DNA and they will argue for that They don't want to be wrong They don't wanna be wrong, even smart people.

01:59:10 Speaker_10
Especially smart people. I had an argument with a friend of mine once about divorce, and that women get more in divorce.

01:59:17 Speaker_10
We were talking about how the divorce system is kind of fucked because lawyers prey upon it in order to jack up their rates, and then they turn the couple against each other. They are like, wait, well he said this.

01:59:29 Speaker_10
But that motherfucker and then next thing, you know, I want more and then they get what really what's happening is the lawyers jacking up his rates He's dragging things out and then you know, I know guys that have been devastated by divorces and his argument was like yeah, but Isn't it fair the woman gets all the money because women only make 75 cents a dollar for what men make I go Do you know that's not true?

01:59:49 Speaker_10
Like do you understand what that is? And he didn't want to believe it. He was like, no, that's not what I go It's they have different jobs and they work different hours. That's where the 75 cents comes from

01:59:58 Speaker_10
It's not like a guy and a woman work together at the same job. They both do the same job, and the guy makes a dollar and she makes 75 cents. That's not how it works. He was like, no fucking way. I goes, yeah. And then we looked it up. He's like, whoa.

02:00:13 Speaker_10
In his mind, it was always the labor market is unfair because women are getting fucked over because men take advantage of them. The way we're talking about them taking advantage of illegal immigrants and making them work for less.

02:00:26 Speaker_10
No, if you were working in a corporation, a woman does just as good a job as a man, and yet she's willing to work for 75 cents, you'd have only women working for you. They just want to make money. They don't give a fuck about all that DEI shit.

02:00:37 Speaker_10
That's just how they can make more money. What do I got to do to get a part of this? What do I have to do to get grants? Do I get more loans? What do I have to do? That's all that shit is.

02:00:48 Speaker_04
Yeah, and again, the problem is it makes everything so divisive. Because look, the vast majority of people... The vast majority only care about fairness. They want it to be fair or as fair as possible.

02:01:03 Speaker_04
And when something is so egregious and so unfair, that's where anger takes hold. That's where resentment takes hold. And that's when people get nasty because they feel that they've been cheated. And in some cases they have. And they go, you know what?

02:01:16 Speaker_04
I'm not going to take part in your game. Your game's rigged. So you know what fuck you fuck your game, and this is what I'm gonna do and once that happens You don't have conversations.

02:01:25 Speaker_04
You don't have good faith, and you don't have any type of solution to the problem.

02:01:33 Speaker_10
Yeah You fucking dumbasses bunch of people that have never experienced it it's um

02:01:43 Speaker_10
There's a lot of hope in the future, and I think one of the big hopes is that these kind of conversations that we have are popular, where that wasn't even a thing 20 years ago. It was impossible to get.

02:01:54 Speaker_10
If you were having a conversation about issues, it would be on television, and it would be approved experts.

02:02:01 Speaker_10
It'd be someone who's an expert from a university, or someone who's an expert from a corporation, and they would be talking to you about things, or someone from the government. They had full control of the narrative. They don't have that anymore.

02:02:13 Speaker_10
That's what's weird. And we have it for a small amount of time before AI takes over. There's like this brief window where people have access to real discussions, and then AI is going to take over.

02:02:27 Speaker_01
Well, this is happening, though. In the UK, the Conservative Party is having an election now. Whoever wins that, we'll have them on our show and have a conversation and find out what they're all about.

02:02:37 Speaker_01
And by the time of the next election here and in the UK, I think this is going to be the primary vehicle if you want to get your message out there, this kind of conversation.

02:02:44 Speaker_10
Well, I think they're probably all going to do their own too, which would behoove them. If someone like, let's say someone like Rand Paul, if Rand Paul decided to make a podcast, I bet that'd be pretty fucking popular, real popular.

02:02:57 Speaker_10
Like, look what happened to Tucker Carlson after he left Fox News. Like, they fired him from Fox News because they didn't like what he was talking about. I don't know what the whole story was. I've heard a bunch of different versions of it.

02:03:08 Speaker_10
But the bottom line is, he became way bigger. Like, if you thought he was a problem when you had him under control when he was working for a corporation, now he can talk about whatever he wants. He's got some guy on who said he sucked Obama's dick.

02:03:28 Speaker_10
Fucking nuts I was like, what are you doing?

02:03:30 Speaker_10
Like this is crazy, but that's the kind of shit you can do if you don't have any sort of guardrails You don't have any executives, you know have any producers, but the thing that gives me hope Joe is most people They're not gonna want that most people what they're gonna want.

02:03:47 Speaker_10
But hold up Obama sucking the guy's dick

02:04:00 Speaker_04
But I think when people are craving a middle ground, people crave that, people desire that.

02:04:09 Speaker_04
One of the reasons that, you know, the BBC is in free fall at the moment and they're hemorrhaging viewers and listeners and all the rest of it is because people think that they're biased and they have every right to.

02:04:20 Speaker_04
And but when people talk about the demise of the BBC, most people, they're not happy about it.

02:04:26 Speaker_04
They're sad because they know that it was a valuable place where people from left and right came together to debate ideas, to share ideas, and people would listen and make up their own minds. People still crave that, Joe.

02:04:39 Speaker_04
And that's what gives me hope, is that that's what people want. You're going to get people who want to listen to, you know, I was in a gang bang with Obama, whatever it was.

02:04:50 Speaker_04
People are going to clip that now and whatever, but you know, you know, like that's a fringe, but the average person is curious and they just want to hear a center ground.

02:05:03 Speaker_10
And they want a source that's interesting and reliable. And that's what the BBC used to be.

02:05:07 Speaker_10
Yeah, you know the BBC's they put on that Attenborough documentary where he went to the Congo The first time they ever saw chimpanzees eat monkeys remember that like that's Attenborough.

02:05:17 Speaker_10
That's BBC the BBC had one of the best Documentaries on the Congo I've ever seen in my life. It's incredible. It's like I used to have it on VHS It's like multi-part documentary on the Congo. They used to do incredible stuff.

02:05:30 Speaker_10
But in America, to a lesser extent, that was Vice News. Vice News used to be incredible. Vice News used to do all this really interesting stuff. And I had Shane Smith on from Vice News, who started it. He used to be the head of it.

02:05:44 Speaker_10
And then he walked away from it, and it completely fell apart. Went woke, went broke. Because he left? No. Well he left and then it wasn't just that he left, it was also like, who were the people that were coming in? Right?

02:05:55 Speaker_10
There's these young, woke kids that are coming in from universities and all of a sudden they had this idea of what they should be doing in journalism. And it's journalism slash activism. And it just became bullshit.

02:06:06 Speaker_10
And nobody paid attention to it anymore and it lost all its money.

02:06:10 Speaker_01
Well that's why I always say, like, people love to shit on the mainstream media, as I do to some extent, but my view is, we need a mainstream media. Just not this one.

02:06:19 Speaker_10
Well, I think the way to do it is the way it's probably going to be independent mainstream media. And when it stops being independent, people will give up on it and go to a real independent one.

02:06:31 Speaker_10
And unfortunately, they're probably fake independent ones that are like state sponsored, that are trying to make it look like they're real.

02:06:37 Speaker_10
You're going to get a bunch of CIA plants and a bunch of different intelligence agencies that are going to infiltrate podcasts.

02:06:43 Speaker_10
You're going to have that kind of stuff, but that's just like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping case when you have 12 different FBI informants and two people that don't know what the fuck is going on.

02:06:56 Speaker_10
These are the people that are coordinating the kidnapping. It's mostly the FBI informants, which is just nuts. Things get infiltrated.

02:07:03 Speaker_04
But it's got to suck to be that vice guy because you build this thing and it's working and it's great and not just that he went broke Wow, I mean not broke broke, but yeah, I think he lost a billion dollars Wow, yeah, maybe more Wow, you know nuts, you know, it's but but again, I come back to it which is like

02:07:24 Speaker_04
There is so much potential now. There is so much space. And if you are one of those journalists, and look, let's be honest as well, we've all got our biases. Everyone here has got a bias.

02:07:34 Speaker_01
Not me, mate. I'm perfectly neutral.

02:07:37 Speaker_04
But everyone's got what they think. But if you do, and you're open about it, people accept that. People go, you know, okay, you know, Joe's, you know, whatever Joe is, I'm whatever you, Constantine is whatever he is. But

02:07:51 Speaker_04
they will be far more accepting of that because you are honest, you're authentic. It's like David Mamet said, words that come from the heart go to the heart.

02:07:59 Speaker_04
And if you are prepared to have that honest conversation whilst admitting that this is what you think and this is what you believe, that is a far richer, more fulfilling experience for the viewer or the listener than someone just giving out talking points and saying, I agree, because that rapidly gets very boring.

02:08:16 Speaker_04
There's an audience for it, but, you know, back and forth and the cut and thrust and hang on, you said this, but you're going, that's, I love watching that. I love listening to that.

02:08:25 Speaker_10
Yeah. Well, real honest discourse is fascinating, especially by two intelligent people that have different perspectives.

02:08:32 Speaker_10
It's fascinating because you say this guy's obviously very smart and this person's obviously very smart And they're talking and you get a chance to see like what what how do you come to your conclusions?

02:08:41 Speaker_10
Are you willing to admit that other people have points like or are you just steamrolling them when they? Question you about something that's contradictory about the way you think like how are you thinking?

02:08:52 Speaker_10
and I think we all learn by watching other people think and discuss things and

02:08:56 Speaker_01
Absolutely, but the difference is this is where the medium is the message point really applies is that takes a lot of time Yeah, take any issue that's that's in any way controversial the idea that you can the reason issues are controversial Is that people don't agree?

02:09:11 Speaker_01
That's what controversial means right people don't agree people have different perspectives. The reason they have different perspectives It's an it is that that is an issue which is difficult to have consensus on right and

02:09:23 Speaker_01
That means that issue's so complicated, you cannot discuss it in five minutes. It's gonna take hours, and sometimes it's gonna take years of research to come to a conclusion about certain things.

02:09:35 Speaker_01
The idea that you can adjudicate that through the medium of two people having a bust-up on a show where it's optimized for anger and outrage, that's ridiculous. That's not how you get to the truth.

02:09:47 Speaker_01
The way you get to the truth is you take your time and you have a conversation.

02:09:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, and that's why I think we keep using that word hope but that's what I do have hope as you say before I takes over that that format allows I'm not saying that's the only way these conversations goes there are a lot of dumb shit There's a lot of dumb shit being said on podcast all the time as well but there is the space for that kind of conversation as well and that that is good and

02:10:12 Speaker_01
Yeah, podcasts are a lot like Twitter conversations.

02:10:15 Speaker_10
It's a lot of dumb shit, but a lot of good shit too. And that's very similar in that they're both kind of unregulated.

02:10:22 Speaker_04
Yeah, but it's important that you hear dumb shit. It's important, it's really important that you hear it. And also it's why I believe, you know, I hate political correctness because it stops conversations from happening.

02:10:36 Speaker_04
Or what it does is it means, like take immigration. If like you say, or if you say this point of view, that's racist, you're only going to talk about 70% of the problem. You're not going to talk about this 30% here.

02:10:49 Speaker_04
If you don't talk about this 30% here, because it's politically incorrect, you are never going to solve the problem. Because the only way to solve the problem is to talk about every facet of the problem.

02:11:00 Speaker_04
And if you're not going to approach that 30%, we ain't ever going to come to a solution.

02:11:04 Speaker_01
And that's when you get riots, like we had in the UK. That's how that happens. When you try and suppress the discussion, that's what happens.

02:11:11 Speaker_10
And you guys don't have guns.

02:11:12 Speaker_01
And we don't. Thank fuck we don't have guns because it's getting pretty heated, man.

02:11:15 Speaker_10
Yeah, I've seen some stuff. It seems wild over there, man. It is. You know, the real fear if Trump wins is civil discourse or civil unrest, rather, in this country.

02:11:28 Speaker_10
A lot of people are scared of that because they remember what happened when he won in 2016. You know, and there was some of it that was real peaceful, like the Women's March. There was no violence at the Women's March to speak of.

02:11:39 Speaker_10
I mean, I'm sure there was some, but it wasn't like the BLM marches. The BLM marches were crazy. Right. Do you think that's gonna happen if he wins?

02:11:48 Speaker_10
I think there's a certain amount of that that's coordinated, and I think there's a certain amount of that that they do to initiate civil unrest to further their political goals. I think there's a certain amount of that that's real.

02:12:04 Speaker_10
I think that's always been the case. There's always been agent provocateurs that go into peaceful protests and start smashing things so the cops can come in and shut everything down.

02:12:16 Speaker_10
And then there was during the BLM, I'm sure you saw during some of the protests and riots that there was these bricks that were just left everywhere. Did you see that?

02:12:27 Speaker_10
Yeah, at some places there was pallets of bricks that were just left in the middle of the course of where these protests would be. Didn't make any sense. Like, why is this there?

02:12:36 Speaker_10
And there was all these conspiracy theories and there was all these people that were absolutely dismissing the conspiracy theories. I'm like, why would you dismiss it? Do you think that some people benefit from civil unrest? They certainly do.

02:12:49 Speaker_10
If you wanted to get the public riled up, you should just start smashing things and lighting them on fire and give people this feeling that they can do that.

02:12:58 Speaker_01
That was a wild time, man. Crazy time. And a lot of the people who were right at the front of that, cheerleading it on from the sidelines, it's like what they did with Joe Biden. Like yesterday, he was the leader of the free world, this perfect guy.

02:13:11 Speaker_01
He's got no cognitive issues. And tomorrow, bam, he's done. Well, the defund the police stuff.

02:13:16 Speaker_10
That was all that was all about defunding the police. Are you out of your fucking mind? Do you you don't know jack shit about police work? And you're saying to defund the police, but even some people that knew about it.

02:13:27 Speaker_10
We're using it as a political tool Kamala Harris was saying defund the police only Would you ask her about that if she comes over?

02:13:33 Speaker_01
Sure, sure.

02:13:34 Speaker_10
Yeah, I'd ask her about changing perspectives. I think it's important that people change perspectives. People say, oh, they flip-flopped. Well, that's probably good.

02:13:41 Speaker_10
That means maybe they were faced with better evidence, and they realized they were incorrect. I would rather have that than someone stick to some stupid, erroneous idea forever.

02:13:50 Speaker_01
The real question is, did they actually change their mind?

02:13:53 Speaker_10
Right.

02:13:54 Speaker_01
That's the question.

02:13:55 Speaker_10
Or are they just a politician? Like some people are car salesmen. Some people tell you you need the undercarriage protection. You need that undercarriage protection. It's very important.

02:14:06 Speaker_04
And it's also the way they marketed that. They were like, this is a left-wing idea. I'm telling you right now, people who are poor want police. If you live in a poor deprived area with high rates of crime, you want police.

02:14:23 Speaker_04
You don't want a drug dealer on your selling crack. You don't want armed gangs roaming around. You want them to come and protect your family.

02:14:31 Speaker_04
So the idea that we're going to get rid of police and all of a sudden all the rapists are going to go, you know what, mate? Decide not for me.

02:14:38 Speaker_10
Well, there was also so many weird ways to handle the riots. Like one of the things they did in New York City is just let people do whatever they wanted to do and let it burn out.

02:14:48 Speaker_10
Which is apparently that was a way that people theorized that was the best way to deal with civil unrest way back into the 60s. But it was proven to not be correct. It's not a good idea because it encourages people to do more shit.

02:15:03 Speaker_01
You've got kids, Joe. Yes. If your kids are running riot.

02:15:07 Speaker_10
Do you let it just burn out no fuck no no well especially when people look if you're in New York like I'm sure you saw like Saks Fifth Avenue all these different stores that got their windows smashed and people just

02:15:20 Speaker_10
stole millions of dollars worth of shit, smashed, destroyed, lit things on fire. Why would you ever want to come back to that city? Why would you ever want to have a business there?

02:15:30 Speaker_10
You're going to kill the businesses that keep people coming to the city and help the economy? That's insanity.

02:15:37 Speaker_04
it's dispiriting it's actually dispiriting and because when you saw those events happening you just felt like i i was watching going what is happening what is happening to society because every time someone commits a crime and they get away with it and you see it it has a demoralizing effect on you because you think hang on a minute

02:15:57 Speaker_04
I work hard, I pay tax, I do all of this, and you're allowed to just go around, roam scot-free, nick all the stuff, make, and then there's no repercussions for it. So why am I taking part in a system which is effectively punishing me?

02:16:12 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's disheartening. That's the best way to put it. I gotta pee real quick. We'll do that and we'll come back. I'll do that too. Cool. Yay. Much better. Can't concentrate when I have to pee. It's impossible.

02:16:23 Speaker_04
yeah that that is so true the moment you meet it's i remember doing a gig at the edinburgh festival and the crowd were just awful they just weren't going for anything and i was like why is this and one of the comedians turned around to me it was raining outside i'm like so he went they've all got wet socks

02:16:42 Speaker_04
You can't be happy when you've got wet socks on.

02:16:46 Speaker_10
Maybe you should try some hate speech. Didn't the guy get arrested in Ireland because he refused to call a boy or girl in class a teacher? They literally put him in jail, right? How long was he in jail for?

02:17:04 Speaker_01
I it's been a while it's been a while and it's that's dystopian that is that's really crazy but it's a logical conclusion of this hate speech bullshit right jail if it's hate speech then you have to prosecute it if you prosecute it you have to punish people if to punish people how do you punish people you put them in the fucking cage fucking crazy

02:17:23 Speaker_04
And it's also, as well, it's that whole safety-ism issue, which is, we need to keep people safe.

02:17:28 Speaker_10
Yeah, and words are violence, that's another one.

02:17:31 Speaker_04
Yeah, and if somebody is going around spreading hate speech, he's making people unsafe. Even if they just feel unsafe, Francis, they feel unsafe.

02:17:39 Speaker_11
They feel unsafe?

02:17:40 Speaker_04
Yeah, and that's what it's all about. You've made me feel unsafe, therefore I am unsafe. And what do we need to do about that? You need to be got rid of. You can't have it here.

02:17:51 Speaker_10
Not just that, but you set a massive example to anybody else. You step out of line, we're gonna put you in a cage. So it's time to start calling boys girls, or girls boys, or whatever the fuck we tell you to. It's just completely illogical.

02:18:02 Speaker_06
It says he was jailed because he broke a trespassing order for going back there when they told him not to. That would be the third time though, right?

02:18:11 Speaker_10
So tell him to go back to the school?

02:18:12 Speaker_06
Yeah, he went back to the school to talk to people or something, and that's what he got arrested for.

02:18:16 Speaker_10
So he got fired, why? He was not arrested for his position on transgender pronouns as claimed in misleading social media posts.

02:18:25 Speaker_10
Social media users shared a video, Burke's arrest outside the school September 2nd, where he's heard saying, I have a right to work here, I have a right to be here, not to tell students that they need to take puberty blockers.

02:18:35 Speaker_01
Oh, wow. But Jamie, this is the third time though. What was he arrested for initially? Because that's really kind of what we're talking about.

02:18:41 Speaker_10
Scroll down at the bottom though. Let me hear what it says more.

02:18:44 Speaker_10
It says there, other people off camera also say you're arresting him because he won't endorse transgender ideology, and Enoch Burke, teacher, being arrested for not accepting transgenderism.

02:18:55 Speaker_10
People circulating the clip online suggest Burke was arrested for his views with some writing, breaking Irish police arrest teacher Enoch Burke for not endorsing trans ideology. So was he fired for not that?

02:19:07 Speaker_10
Terms of injunction that instructs him to stay away from the school. So he must have been fired for that. and then he refused to just leave, and so he kept coming back and then they arrested him.

02:19:18 Speaker_01
I mean, you know... No, but that said he was arrested for a third time. Yeah. So I'm guessing the previous two arrests might not have been for trespassing. They might have been for things that he'd said. Well, let's find that out.

02:19:28 Speaker_01
That'd be worth checking. Jamie will find that out.

02:19:29 Speaker_04
Yeah. You know, this is the thing that I find the most egregious, is when you get kids involved. Because the thing is with kids, Kids don't know. They don't understand the concept, a lot of them, especially at a young age, of gender.

02:19:47 Speaker_04
And they're very impressionable of children. Of course they are. So you can pump them full of this stuff and eventually they can believe it. They're not like adults who'll go, hang on a minute mate.

02:19:58 Speaker_04
The old kid is, but the majority of them are highly suggestible. That's why children have parents, because they're not capable of making their own choices. It really is that simple. That's why there's teachers. That's why there's adult leaders.

02:20:13 Speaker_04
so they go to them you are not capable of making this decision because your brain is not mature enough it is not developed enough i am an adult i will be the one making your choices and then when you get to whatever age age 18 21 depending on the thing then you can go off and you can live your life and you can do whatever you want until then

02:20:33 Speaker_04
I am the one in charge. And to this idea that then you then let something as huge as this, where there's going to be medical intervention and surgeries, I'm going to call it what it is, Joe. That's child abuse. It's child abuse.

02:20:47 Speaker_10
At least they've stopped it in the UK, in terms of the surgeries and puberty blockers.

02:20:53 Speaker_06
Sort of describing more but it's still like he said he didn't want to call the student day So they told him administrative leave and he kept coming back to the school.

02:21:02 Speaker_10
Okay, right? Yeah, so that's what it is instructed staff that a pupil who was transitioning to another gender wish to be referred to by a new name and the pronouns they, a change supported by the pupil's parents.

02:21:16 Speaker_10
Burke from Castle Bar, County Mayo, who teaches history, refused, citing his religious beliefs.

02:21:21 Speaker_10
The school put Burke on paid administrative leave after he allegedly confronted the principal at a public event and questioned her in a heated manner, a claim Burke denies. After Burke continued to attend the school,

02:21:32 Speaker_10
It obtained a court order barring him from the campus. He continued to show up, prompting his jailing for contempt of court." Right.

02:21:39 Speaker_01
So it sounds like a guy making a stand, basically. Yeah. Yeah.

02:21:42 Speaker_04
Yeah. You know? And you know what's even more nuts about this? Ireland's a Catholic country. Yeah.

02:21:49 Speaker_10
Ireland is a country that- With Muhammad being the number one name for young boys.

02:21:53 Speaker_04
In Ireland?

02:21:55 Speaker_10
Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's the number one name for boys.

02:22:00 Speaker_04
I mean, the Catholic faith has changed a lot since I've done it.

02:22:06 Speaker_10
Well, a lot of people moved there. But you know what, as well, it's... Find that statistic, because that statistic's crazy.

02:22:16 Speaker_06
Typed it in it didn't pop up right away, so I don't know yeah a way in which it is, but maybe it's number two Maybe I think it was number one for young boys in like one of the most recent years I hope they're not calling the girls that But yeah, it's maybe in one city it says in Ireland and Galway City is a Galloway

02:22:39 Speaker_10
Galway.

02:22:39 Speaker_06
Galway. Galway. Yeah. That's what pops up when I typed in Mohammed on top of it. It said Ryan's number one name in Ireland. Brian? Ryan, alright.

02:22:46 Speaker_04
Ryan! Alright, lad. But, you know, this again is what gives me hope, Joe, is that, especially in the UK, we have fought really long and hard against this stuff. There was a report done by one of the

02:23:01 Speaker_04
one of the most important pediatricians called Dr. Cass and the Cass report and it basically took a bulldozer to all of this crap to all of it and you go this is what we can do if we

02:23:15 Speaker_04
We just start challenging and we go, no, boys cannot become girls, girls cannot become boys. That doesn't mean that if, you know, somebody is having gender dysphoria, they need, they don't have therapy, talk to them, help them.

02:23:30 Speaker_04
Of course, all of this thing, we need to look at the reasons why girls are wanting to transition in their droves. Why is this particularly 40% of girls who are wanting to transition, they've got autism.

02:23:42 Speaker_04
We need to talk about this, we need to investigate it, and we need to help these kids. But just giving puberty blockers and sending them on this stream to essentially have their life medicalized for the rest of time, that ain't a solution.

02:23:57 Speaker_10
And it's profitable, which is even scarier. So once these institutions become established and start making money off of it, they want to continue to.

02:24:05 Speaker_01
Well, that's why I think we're ahead of the U.S. in the U.K., because we don't have that profit motive to do it. I was going to ask you, do you think we've reached peak woke, Joe? Do you think we're past it now? Do you think we've turned the tide?

02:24:17 Speaker_10
It's still here. I mean it's like we killed off most of the wolves but there's still a lot. I think it's always going to be a thing that people ascribe to. There's always going to be a thing that people join up with because it's very

02:24:34 Speaker_10
They're very aggressive in the ideology, and people like aggressive things. Just like Nazis never really went away. There's just way less of them. When you get on Twitter today, you can still find some real Nazis, which is kind of crazy.

02:24:47 Speaker_10
Because you would have thought after 45, ah, we hit peak Nazi. You know, it's over. But it's not. There's always going to be woke people. There's always going to be crazy, ridiculous people that take things to the extreme.

02:25:00 Speaker_10
In the 60s, it was the weather underground. You know, you're always going to have people that are out of their fucking mind. You're always going to have Antifa.

02:25:06 Speaker_10
You're always going to have something like that where people believe the most extreme version of something because it gives them meaning. And it's a group you could just join. Anybody can join.

02:25:17 Speaker_10
And then you start fighting for it, because those are the people who are the downfall of civilization.

02:25:22 Speaker_01
You know, I wonder about that online stuff, because based on what I see, I don't see it reflected in normal day-to-day life. And we had Ashley St. Clair on our show last time we were in the US.

02:25:32 Speaker_01
And she was talking about all these idiots running around going, repeal the 19th. You've heard this bullshit? And she said at the time, she said, a lot of this is foreign influence. And I was like, OK. I mean, I don't know.

02:25:45 Speaker_01
And then you had this Tenet Media thing. Did you follow this? What is it? Tenet Media, it was... Tenet Media, yeah. Did you follow that? Not much.

02:25:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, so it was basically the Russian government, through various proxies, gave $10 million to people in America. I think it was Lauren Chen and her husband's company.

02:26:03 Speaker_10
Oh, that's right. So what was going on with that? Were they saying positive things about Russia?

02:26:08 Speaker_01
I don't think, from what I've seen, I may be wrong about this, I didn't see any evidence that any of the influencers who ended up being paid were on the payroll to do specific things.

02:26:21 Speaker_10
Do you think it's valuable to them to give the money just so those people can be dismissed?

02:26:27 Speaker_01
It's so that those people can pollute the space right if everyone thinks the right wants to repeal women's right to vote Right that divides society and it creates chaos like when I see all these Nazis talking online I don't see that reflect like we went to the Trump rally none of them were there that every time Israel got mentioned There was a big cheer.

02:26:45 Speaker_01
You know what I mean? so I don't see that reflected in reality and I wonder how many of those thousands of likes and retweets are real and

02:26:52 Speaker_10
Right. That's a factor. Did you see the thing that happened at the Trump boat rally in Florida where a Nazi boat pulled up and they had like swastikas and everything and the whole deal and with masks on and everybody just started hosing them?

02:27:07 Speaker_10
Get the fuck out of here because it's a kind of agent provocateur type deal. where you probably have someone, some group, that wants to make all the Trump people look like Nazis, so they show up.

02:27:18 Speaker_10
And then I saw media outlets report on it, like the Nazi flags we're seeing at the Trump rally.

02:27:23 Speaker_04
Yeah, and it's a great point, but the thing we always focus on with the right is the far right, and we should focus on them, and we should talk about them. We never talk about the far left and communism, and you know, people on like, I'm Venezuelan.

02:27:39 Speaker_04
There were people in the Labour Party eulogising Chavez round about 2005 at the same time as he was putting my relatives in jail. And then they were just there going, and then they've all moved on.

02:27:52 Speaker_04
And they've disappeared like butterflies in the wind and no one addresses it anymore. And everyone's like, oh, well, that's fine. And you go, so where's the consistency?

02:28:01 Speaker_04
If you're going to hold the right to account, and you should hold the right to account, you've got to hold your own side to account with people who are like, well, communism was never tried. And you're going, I think it was, mate.

02:28:13 Speaker_07
It just wasn't tried right.

02:28:14 Speaker_10
Those kids in Brooklyn haven't figured it out.

02:28:19 Speaker_01
The reason I ask you about peak woke is I heard Rahm Emanuel, remember he was Obama's chief of staff, mayor of Chicago.

02:28:24 Speaker_01
He was on Sam Harris's podcast and they had a very interesting conversation where people in the center of the left, they are backtracking on wokeness and quickly. They're like, oh that was just a moment. Yeah, we let some crazies.

02:28:38 Speaker_01
That's kind of how they're talking I don't know about Sam Sam was I think Sam is uber anti work He always has been and he was pushing a manual to kind of go.

02:28:48 Speaker_01
Why doesn't Kamala Harris come out and Say look, I went along with all this work shit like many of us did right? That was a moment We you know, I was wrong about that

02:28:58 Speaker_01
We're not talking about that now, we're talking about make America better, make America richer. Why don't those people just draw a line under it and say, that was a mistake? And a lot of people on the center left now are awake to this moment, I think.

02:29:14 Speaker_01
That's why I asked you, because there does seem to be something happening.

02:29:17 Speaker_10
Yeah. Something's happening. And I think it was inevitable because it's so much of what people are dealing with is just stupid. And there's so much pushback against it. And that's what Trump represents.

02:29:29 Speaker_10
That's the reason why there were 75,000 people outside of Madison Square Garden. And the place was overflowing with humans. That's what it represents. People are tired of being badgered. They're tired of being lectured to.

02:29:44 Speaker_10
They're tired of being told what to think and what to say and what to believe, and they don't like it. They don't like that this one party is keep talking about change, but they've been in control for 12 out of the past, or is it 12 out of the past?

02:29:57 Speaker_10
No, 14 out of the past 16 years. That's crazy. How can you be talking about change? You know tired of it. They want something to be different that makes them feel like there's hope and they're also tired of being Called bad people.

02:30:09 Speaker_01
Yeah, because at the end of the day left and right they're both half the fucking country, right?

02:30:15 Speaker_01
right, so you can't run a country by claiming that half the country is evil and In some way you can't you can't do that about the right can't do that about the left Look the people on the right.

02:30:26 Speaker_01
They are the firefighters and the police officers and the soldiers is stereotypically speaking Of course, there's left-wing fire. You know what? I'm yeah, right You're going to run a country without firefighters and police?

02:30:36 Speaker_01
You're going to run a country without soldiers?

02:30:38 Speaker_04
I mean, we tried running a country without police, mate.

02:30:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, it doesn't work very well, right? And likewise, you need also the more creatively minded people who are on the left and who run the administrative share and other kinds of things.

02:30:50 Speaker_01
You need both sides to realize in this country, you're all Americans. In our country, you're all British. Like, you wanna be tribal, go for it, but let's agree we're all one, and then we can go be tribal against China or whatever.

02:31:02 Speaker_01
Do you know what I mean?

02:31:03 Speaker_10
We need someone who's a leader who can articulate that, that's a part of one of the major parties, who can say that and sort of unite people. And you're not getting that from either side.

02:31:13 Speaker_10
Either side is, the other side's stupid, and they're ridiculous, they're gonna be the downfall of us, and this is a dumb person, this is an evil person. There's no uniting. Like, it should be... I don't think you have to do it that way. I really don't.

02:31:30 Speaker_10
Because I think if somebody just avoided all that stuff and just focused entirely on the good things that are possible if we all work together, everybody is not going to listen to their opponent who's constantly shitting on them.

02:31:41 Speaker_10
If this one person is shitting on the other person relentlessly and the other person doesn't even respond to it, just talks about what they want to do, that person looks really stupid and petty. But as soon as you engage, now you're just like them.

02:31:53 Speaker_10
And now it's like, I had to hit them back. Like, do you? Do you really? How about just say what you think you can do and say what needs to be done and how you're going to do it.

02:32:02 Speaker_04
And I think this is a reason why we in the UK have made far greater strides with the whole medical intervention with children issue is because it's not really a political issue.

02:32:17 Speaker_04
People on the left have spoken out against it and people on the right and the people like heroes like JK Rowling and the moment you get people like that talking about it on both sides people are then able to listen because it's someone from their side who they think is inverted commas a good person going oh she's talking about it.

02:32:35 Speaker_10
Did you see the thing that she tweeted about the puberty blocker study that they wouldn't release? It's so crazy. They made a puberty blocker study.

02:32:44 Speaker_10
They found that it doesn't help the kids, doesn't help their mental health, and they thought that it would embolden the other side. So they decided not to release it. So you found out that it's bad for kids.

02:32:55 Speaker_10
You don't want people to know that it's bad for kids. And she wrote, so you could keep doing terrible things to kids.

02:33:01 Speaker_01
But again, it just shouldn't be a partisan issue, right?

02:33:06 Speaker_10
Of course, especially with children. Jesus Christ, that's crazy. Also the thing in the UK, you guys have socialized medicine. So there's not this giant machine behind it the way it is here. The other thing about America is advertisement.

02:33:19 Speaker_10
So this is one of two countries in the world where pharmaceutical drug companies can advertise and that's not good That's clearly not good We're fucking full-on captured by them and the amount of money that they can make and then the whole system behind them is so Deeply ingrained in money, you know, it's just they've got their hooks in deep and politics and television and media they got their hooks in deep and that's not good and that's why

02:33:45 Speaker_10
you can have these conversations in America and medical stuff gets connected to left or right wing.

02:33:52 Speaker_04
But the great thing is with America is your First Amendment. You're so lucky to have that, Joe. You're so lucky that you don't have what we have, where politicians are openly talking about we need to tackle Islamophobia.

02:34:10 Speaker_04
I was talking to a very, very senior member of the police. He came to one of my gigs. And then we got on the tube home. And this is a very, very senior guy, deals with government.

02:34:20 Speaker_04
And I go to him, how long do you think until we have hate speech laws in England? Because Scotland has a different legal system. And he went probably two to two and a half years.

02:34:34 Speaker_04
And the fact that this guy was just very matter-of-fact about it made me realize that we're in trouble. We're in trouble.

02:34:45 Speaker_04
Because if the government comes in and starts legislating, starts clamping down, that's when you're living under authoritarian regime and under authoritarian rule.

02:34:55 Speaker_04
But the fact you have this free speech amendment, and you've said it yourself, if you don't believe in free speech, you're not American, That is such a beautiful thing.

02:35:04 Speaker_10
This is the way people have to look at it. You would think that stopping hate speech would be a good thing, and it would. It would be great if everybody voluntarily stopped using hate speech. It would be wonderful.

02:35:14 Speaker_10
But as soon as you can define hate speech in as simple of terms as calling someone by their original name when they've decided to change genders,

02:35:23 Speaker_10
Like, if you don't want to be Francis anymore, but I insist on calling you Francis, and you can put me in jail for that? That's really crazy. And it's dangerous, because it's just control.

02:35:33 Speaker_10
And you can't allow that kind of control to be in the hands of any government body where, because of the words out of your mouth, they can now put you in a cage. that's a crazy precedent to set.

02:35:45 Speaker_10
Put yourself outside of who's right or who's wrong, and just think about the concept of the words that you say, an opinion that you espouse, can put you in a cage. You don't ever want to give the government that, because that can keep moving.

02:35:59 Speaker_10
That definition of what is hate can keep moving. It can keep moving to a really ridiculous place. Which I think it is if you're doing things like gender identity.

02:36:09 Speaker_10
Especially if someone decides, like if Admiral Levine, that person, that Rachel Levine person, if you can't say, that looks like a guy, if you can't say that, now you're getting locked up for what? accurate observations, this is nuts.

02:36:25 Speaker_10
And it's dangerous because once you set a precedent, then they can keep moving that further and further down the line. They attach you to a social credit score system. And then you decide whether or not you can buy groceries.

02:36:36 Speaker_10
And now they can kind of dictate your behavior and the way you talk and think. And now we're in 1984. Legit.

02:36:42 Speaker_01
And you don't have to even be a genius to understand this. If you look at history, look at all the societies where speech is heavily restricted. You would not want to live in any of those places.

02:36:52 Speaker_10
You don't get any creativity You miss out on everything that it is to be an American you miss out on all the cool This is like the in terms of like entertainment how much entertainment comes out of the United States that the world consumes in terms of music comedy movies a giant percentage of the world's entertainment comes out of right here because you have the ability to freely express yourself and

02:37:14 Speaker_04
Yeah, and that's the reason Hollywood's in the doldrums now, because they don't have the ability to freely express themselves.

02:37:20 Speaker_10
You know who else doesn't get fucked with?

02:37:22 Speaker_10
rappers They get fucking wild they still do they say crazy shit and rap songs You could never get away with in any kind of rock and roll song or a pop song You know that Mexican OT, you know, he knows him that guy is I had that dude in here.

02:37:40 Speaker_10
He's awesome He's hilarious, but he's got this song. He's like lately. I've been fucking I The rap is ridiculous. It's so crazy, but it's like that old-school Bragadocious fun kind of like music again entertainment. He's a wonderful guy.

02:38:01 Speaker_10
He's a really nice guy. Very cool Very cool, dude, very fun, but it's an art form. It's an art form. Just like death metal is an art form It's like a kind

02:38:10 Speaker_10
People like different shit, and rap, for whatever reason, has gotten a pass, because people are scared of being called racist. That's black privilege, Sean.

02:38:22 Speaker_01
Or Mexican privilege. They should have had him open the Trump Radix at a time.

02:38:28 Speaker_10
That would have been amazing. I think he performed in front of Andrew Schultz's special. I think he did. Or at least Andrew used his song. I mean, what they did to Andrew was wild as well. Did you follow this? Oh, it was fascinating.

02:38:42 Speaker_10
But again, had the opposite effect. Yeah. You know, so that was this Brooklyn theater. They found out right after he did the Trump podcast, three hours later, they pulled his special. Like he was supposed to be filming a special there.

02:38:55 Speaker_10
He'd already done a walkthrough of the theater, like approved the theater. They were going to sell tickets and they pulled it. And it's just a political thing.

02:39:06 Speaker_01
What do they these I'm assuming business people right? Yeah, what the fuck do they think they're achieving by doing I think they're gonna?

02:39:13 Speaker_10
Special yeah, they think well no they know he'll do it somewhere else It does he's big enough where it doesn't matter Andrew can do anything You know he's huge so he could go anywhere else anybody every other place would be happy to have him, but they take a stand and

02:39:26 Speaker_10
They're signaling to their audience. Yes, they're signaling to their community that people don't feel safe. It has the opposite effect. It just makes Andrew bigger. People find out about it. They get outraged.

02:39:41 Speaker_10
They can't wait to get tickets for his new place. So now he's going to go to a new place that's bigger and better. The special will be even bigger. He's an undeniable guy. There's certain people that are just undeniable forces.

02:39:55 Speaker_10
They're undeniably talented and they'll find a way through all this stupid shit. Tony's one of them. He's undeniable. He'll make his way through this and be better than ever.

02:40:05 Speaker_10
this attacking that they did with Andrew just was so ineffective and it just made him bigger. But it wasn't really attacking.

02:40:12 Speaker_10
They just said they don't want to be a part of it, which I guess if it's your fucking theater and you just have this decision and you want to do it and it's not really going to harm him, it's just going to, if you understand the publicity effect, what it's going to do is the opposite.

02:40:24 Speaker_10
It's going to make this person who just interviewed Trump even more popular. Like go have at it.

02:40:29 Speaker_01
Did you have a lot of pushback after you had Trump on? I have no idea. I don't pay attention. That's a smart thing to do.

02:40:35 Speaker_10
It's the only way to do it. I've adopted that a long time ago, and I wasn't going to change it for Trump, for the Trump interview. I'm not paying attention. I don't know.

02:40:44 Speaker_04
You know, but figures like Andrew and Tony are really important for the culture because they send a very, very strong message to everybody else. You are not going to cancel me. You are not going to win.

02:40:57 Speaker_04
And in fact, the tactics that you use to try and suppress me, to try and stifle me, all they're going to do is make me better, bigger and stronger. And that's such a beautiful message to send out to everybody. Just go, you know what?

02:41:10 Speaker_04
You tried to stop me. All you're doing is making me even more powerful.

02:41:15 Speaker_10
I think people are realizing that now. I think it really worked back in the day Like you could cancel some people back and there's some people that have been legit like Milo He got legitimately canceled.

02:41:26 Speaker_10
Remember that guy used to be on he was on Bill Maher show. He was everywhere He was always these videos. He would sit down. I had him on the podcast. The guy was great Back in the day, Bill Maher actually compared him to Christopher Hitchens.

02:41:39 Speaker_10
And everyone's like, shut the fuck up, they're mad. He's a funny, articulate gay guy with a bit of a drug problem that is a Republican. And everyone's like, what the fuck are we going to do with this? And for him, it was a great avenue to get through.

02:41:52 Speaker_10
And so wildly popular. They remove him from Twitter. They remove him from everything. They remove him from YouTube. And he kind of goes away. What did he say? Well, he talked about his own experiences as an underage man.

02:42:05 Speaker_01
Oh, that's what it was. So it sounded like he was kind of condoning.

02:42:09 Speaker_10
He was kind of condoning. He was kind of saying it, not just on my podcast, but there was another podcast where he talked about these men becoming like mentors to young gay boys and that it actually helps them.

02:42:23 Speaker_10
And I was like, you're talking about pedophilia.

02:42:26 Speaker_01
The Greek model, right? That's what the Greeks used to do.

02:42:29 Speaker_10
it's considered different in you know when you think about man to boy who is a gay boy versus man to heterosexual girl like people get much more offended at the idea of a grown man and a young girl that's heterosexual then that's molesting whereas with a lot of gay guys and i'm not saying this is right but their attitude is this is what they wanted when they were 14 like that's what milo said like i was predator

02:42:57 Speaker_10
That's literally what he said on the podcast. Believe me, I was the predator. It's like, ridiculous. But that's his experience. And he was talking about and they were like, that's all we needed.

02:43:07 Speaker_10
Like this guy is defending pedophilia, and they went after him. And that was back in the day when Twitter was solely controlled by the left. And you could cancel a guy like that. And it was effective.

02:43:19 Speaker_10
And, you know, I remember a lot of arguments when people were trying to de-platform people, like when they de-platformed Trump and there was a few other people that got de-platformed. They were saying de-platforming works. This is what's been shown.

02:43:30 Speaker_10
De-platforming works. Right. For a little while. But you fucking idiots. It's actually going to, if someone crazy like Elon comes along and has the money to back it up and says, I'm going to step in and I'm going to make a Wild West Twitter.

02:43:43 Speaker_10
Like, they had talked about doing two, like when I had Jack on the podcast, he was talking about doing two versions of Twitter. Doing a regulated, moderated Twitter, and then a Wild West Twitter. And I was like, when's a Wild West Twitter?

02:43:56 Speaker_10
And that's what Elon did, he opened up a Wild West Twitter. Dude, there's some shit that I find on Twitter that I'm like, what?

02:44:04 Speaker_10
Like, this is not, and they're doing a pretty good job of hiding that, where you gotta click through to see some of the more egregious things that people say.

02:44:12 Speaker_04
But yeah, I mean, the problem is as well is that UD platform, there's going to be somebody out there who's going to go, you know what?

02:44:20 Speaker_10
We're going to build a platform. Right. But you know what they did with those platforms? They infiltrated those platforms with hate. Right.

02:44:26 Speaker_10
So like if maybe reasonable right wing people decided to leave and start their own thing, you saw these bots that would go to these unregulated places and say the most outrageous, horrible shit. And they might not even be real people.

02:44:42 Speaker_10
And according to, we've talked about this many times, but according to an FBI analyst who was examining Twitter and the interactions on Twitter, his estimation was it could be as high as 80% bots.

02:44:55 Speaker_10
So if you try to open up, whether it's Truth Social or just pick a name, Gab. Gab had a problem with that. You just get bombarded by bots who are trying to ruin your company, right?

02:45:09 Speaker_10
whether that's the government or whether it's competing social media companies.

02:45:13 Speaker_10
If there's no laws about this, if there's no laws about creating bots and you're running whatever it is, threads, and then this other thing opens up and you go, you know what? Let's fill that place up with Nazis.

02:45:27 Speaker_10
having these computers that you have connected to all these accounts just posting the worst shit possible.

02:45:33 Speaker_10
Michelle Obama's got a dick and the White House is filled with pedophiles and you just flood it with craziness and now nobody wants to go there.

02:45:41 Speaker_10
You go there and you're looking for a reasonable Republican conservative social media platform that you can join and you can talk about things that are bothering you. You can't even go there.

02:45:50 Speaker_04
Yeah, and what they did is, in the case of Parler, is that they then shut it down, and they pulled the plug.

02:45:57 Speaker_01
Oh, that's right, Parler. Take their servers away all of them. Yeah, right.

02:46:00 Speaker_10
Perfect example, right? Now you don't have this right-wing version of this thing.

02:46:04 Speaker_01
Well, this is one one thing.

02:46:06 Speaker_01
I'm really hoping Elon gets to because he's been kind of busy as we know and I think him taking over Twitter is fucking awesome It's really opened up a lot of things that needed opening up, but one of the things he talked about early on those bots Mm-hmm, and I feel like there's probably a lot more work to do on that so when when they get round to that that would be make that would make Twitter better because I do Hear from a lot of people who are just like I'm glad it's more open now, but every time I open my for you thing It's like fuck

02:46:30 Speaker_10
But the thing is, it's like, okay, if you decided that the way to eliminate bots is to require ID, this is where it gets weird, because there's data breaches, right?

02:46:40 Speaker_10
So if you're posting something under Skippy McCoy 69, you got some crazy fake name, and then all of a sudden it gets revealed that this is you, and maybe you work in a right-wing office, and you're posting something about abortion rights, and people just decide, let's get rid of that fucking guy, because now we know it's you.

02:46:59 Speaker_10
So that's complicated. Yeah, for sure. People have been fired from things they posted on Reddit, where they're shit posting.

02:47:05 Speaker_10
Shit posting on Reddit is a lot like talking shit when you don't mean it in a group chat, where you're just saying ridiculous things. Ari Shaffir says the most horrendous things, but he doesn't mean it. Ari's a great guy.

02:47:16 Speaker_10
he's saying something because it's funny to say and when you stop that because You can go and investigate who this person is People say things they don't mean just because they want to get a rise out of people because they're bored and they're like an anonymous person They'll say horrible shit.

02:47:32 Speaker_10
They'll come up with a horrible meme. Are we really gonna fire these people? they're gonna lose their livelihood for something that is just

02:47:38 Speaker_01
For them, it's like sport, almost. Definitely not.

02:47:42 Speaker_01
But what I'm saying is, to the extent that foreign governments are interfering with what we think is the truth and what we think is the real conversation, to the extent that other nefarious actors are trying to manipulate views, clicks, etc., that's a big fucking problem.

02:47:56 Speaker_10
It's a big fucking problem. And it's a problem that doesn't seem to be addressed at all. No. And we don't even know how many people are involved in this, because it's so difficult.

02:48:04 Speaker_10
If you're going through a VPN, and you've got a computer bank, and you've got these people that look real, because now you can make artificial photos of families.

02:48:14 Speaker_10
You can decide, I want a black woman and a Chinese man, and this is their family, and AI wants you to create their kids. And so you can have all these posts on Instagram, like, oh, you can follow these people over the years. It's all bullshit.

02:48:28 Speaker_10
And that's so easy to do now. And you could do it on Twitter. It's way more easy because nobody even wants to see pictures of you.

02:48:34 Speaker_10
So you could have a bunch of posts about things that happen to you during the day that make you a real person and just Nazi shit.

02:48:43 Speaker_04
And this is the issue as well, is that when people talk about hate speech, they're making an incredibly complex issue very simple. Because they go, oh yeah, we're going to get rid of hate speech. And then you go, well, what does that mean?

02:48:55 Speaker_04
And what is it going to be the effects of that? And also as well, look, there's a lot of young kids on social media. I don't know about you, but when I was a young kid, I said lots of dumb shit.

02:49:05 Speaker_04
Are you then going to destroy someone's life for the next 20 years because they said something that could be racist or maybe is racist when they're 15 years old?

02:49:14 Speaker_10
Also, there's some things that people see that people have attempted to make mainstream that people have rejected. Like one of them is minor attracted persons. Right, you've seen this, right? It's a map, Joe, please. Let's have some respect.

02:49:29 Speaker_10
I've seen... Minor attracted pedophiles. ...legitimate professors say that it's offensive to call someone a pedophile and you should call them a minor attracted person and not to marginalize them.

02:49:41 Speaker_10
What if it becomes hate speech to call someone a pedophile, right? That is not... when you see how far we've gone, that's not outside of what could be possible.

02:49:50 Speaker_04
Yeah, because if you follow this train of thought to its logical conclusion, and if they are a minority, and all minorities need to be protected, particularly from a majority who dislike them, and particularly in the case of pedophiles where the majority fucking hate them, then you go, well, you know, this person can't help who they are, therefore they need protection and they are a marginalized group.

02:50:12 Speaker_10
Yeah, and how much of that is being manipulated by foreign entities? How many people are out there trying to get us riled up about stuff?

02:50:20 Speaker_10
I remember the Renee DiResta thing where she found out that there was a Texas separatist meeting that was organized by these troll farms right across the street from this Muslim meeting.

02:50:32 Speaker_10
They literally had them on the same block, so they're both protesting like, fuck you, fuck you. And they're just riling people up. Yeah, and it's the idea was that they're doing this to There's a certain percentage of that.

02:50:47 Speaker_10
It's gonna diminish our faith in democracy. That's gonna finish diminish our faith in our system

02:50:52 Speaker_01
Well, this is what Yuri Bezmenov was talking about. You've seen the stuff, right? And I 100% believe there's a lot of that going on right now.

02:50:59 Speaker_10
It's too accurate. That speech that he gave in 84, when you apply it today, it's like, oh my God. He was off by like a decade or so. But not by much, because a couple of decades ago, if you were in a university, it's still pretty ridiculous.

02:51:12 Speaker_10
There's just no social media to amplify it to the rest of the world. It was slowly taking root, but the thing that amplified it to the rest of the world was social media, and that was the unseen element that really threw the gasoline on the fire.

02:51:28 Speaker_01
I really think this issue actually, in my opinion, is a national security issue.

02:51:33 Speaker_01
And I think that when you when you look at it's not just this social media influencing, but it extends beyond that It's other countries hostile countries funding colleges and universities.

02:51:44 Speaker_01
It's doing all of that kind of stuff I really think the West needs to get serious about that and go Do we want foreign countries to be dictating to our citizens what the truth is, right?

02:51:54 Speaker_01
and we're gonna we're gonna have to reckon with that that you cut that can't just be left to its own devices because it's not gonna end well and

02:52:00 Speaker_10
Yeah, it's not. And it's scary that most people aren't aware that it's even taking place. They think that these people with these opinions, this represents a sizable portion of the country and it's real. And a lot of it is not real.

02:52:13 Speaker_10
And we're not sure how much of it is real. And so we don't even really know what the conversation actually is, which we know all of us.

02:52:22 Speaker_10
And then there's no reasonable people who are calling for civility, where people go, hey, I like how that guy's talking. There's no reasonable people calling for some sort of a coming together and compromising.

02:52:34 Speaker_10
I mean, the most interesting people in the Republican Party right now are people who used to be Democrats, which is fascinating. It's like people have abandoned ship.

02:52:42 Speaker_04
Yeah, and the thing that worries me is, I talk to a lot of young people, and we've had young people on the show, one person in particular was talking about the fact that young people don't believe in democracy anymore.

02:52:57 Speaker_04
They just go, the system doesn't work, it doesn't represent me. Whenever we elect someone, they don't do what we want them to do. What's the point? What we need is an oligarchy. we need strong men to come in and sort this out."

02:53:13 Speaker_04
And you're like, whoa, careful what you wish for, because I've seen that.

02:53:18 Speaker_10
Or socialism, which always leads to an oligarchy.

02:53:21 Speaker_01
Yeah. Or just a dictator. That's why there are people on the fringes of the right who are obsessed with Bukele. And Bukele has done a lot of good things in his country. Who's Bukele? He's the president of El Salvador. Incredibly popular.

02:53:37 Speaker_01
He basically took anyone who was a gang member and just threw them in prison. Right. And the country's a lot better.

02:53:44 Speaker_10
Right. I've seen all that.

02:53:45 Speaker_01
A lot better. And, you know, I don't know enough about it to say whether it's entirely a good thing or a bad thing, but you can see the temptation to kind of go, well, why don't we just have one guy come in and sort this shit out?

02:53:58 Speaker_10
But, you know, the real problem is how do they get there in the first place? Or the real problem is, instead of cutting off the cancer, saying, why are we getting cancer? What are we eating? What are we consuming?

02:54:09 Speaker_10
What's wrong with our society that's giving us these people that are gang members? I'm not a gang member. You're not a gang member. So OK, a lot of people grow up and they don't become gang members. So how do we make more of that?

02:54:20 Speaker_10
How do we make more people that are productive, normal people that are integrated into society, and less gang members?

02:54:28 Speaker_01
Some people are going to be gang members and there's no getting away from that. And those people, we have the police for that if we haven't defunded them.

02:54:36 Speaker_01
So you have to have a combination of on the one hand, you teach people how to live a good life, what you're talking about. On the other hand, if you don't want to follow the rules, we're going to crack down on you pretty fucking hard.

02:54:47 Speaker_01
Those two things together is how you get a good society.

02:54:49 Speaker_10
Right. And when you make excuses for why people are doing it, you call it systemic racism, all these different things, and you treat them with leniency, then you're encouraging people to do crimes because there's no repercussions.

02:55:00 Speaker_10
So you're, again, not getting to the root of what's causing them to be like that in the first place, but you're minimizing what they're doing because you address the fact that there's a root.

02:55:10 Speaker_10
So again, you're dealing with the cancer, you're like, let the cancer grow. Cancer is a part of life. Instead of saying, why am I getting cancer?

02:55:18 Speaker_04
Yeah. And also, the dangerous thing with Bukele, I went on a date with a girl who's an El Salvadorian journalist, and I said, look, I don't know anything about Bukele.

02:55:28 Speaker_04
tell me about him and she went to me that he gets his people to turn up if he doesn't like a story in the news and his guys have a have a word and to get this suppressed.

02:55:45 Speaker_10
Well, this is the fear of the big, strong man, right? And this is the fear that a lot of people have of Trump. They're scared that he would do that. The thing that they keep bringing up, which is ironic, is him turning the justice system on his enemies.

02:55:58 Speaker_10
You guys are so crazy. This is like the nut. This is like hookers getting mad at strippers. This is so nuts you guys are it's the the way they're talking about it It's almost like they don't know what they're doing.

02:56:21 Speaker_10
They're not aware of what they're doing.

02:56:22 Speaker_01
Well. They know what they're doing. I don't give a fuck

02:56:24 Speaker_10
Yeah, one of those. Either one's not good. But from my conversation with Trump, I don't think he's the monster that everybody thinks he is.

02:56:33 Speaker_10
And I think for sure there's been a gross distortion of a lot of things that he said that's led to this, the fine people hoax, the Russiagate hoax. There's so many different, the suckers and losers hoax.

02:56:45 Speaker_10
There's all these different things that people attribute to him to try to make him way worse than he really is. Instead of just addressing the things you don't like about him that are real. You know? And so it's this distortion.

02:56:57 Speaker_10
And we know there's a distortion, and that's why when he sits here and he talks for three hours, people are so interested. It's not just because what he says is interesting. It's because we know you've been bullshitting.

02:57:09 Speaker_10
We know that you've used the legal system to try to arrest this guy. You've done some Banana Republic shit where you're trying to weaponize the legal system to go after your political opponents. We know that.

02:57:21 Speaker_10
So when you get a chance to see that guy talk, You're like, oh, so this is who he is. And again, he's being charming. He knows millions of people are listening. He's talking to me. I've met him before. We have a mutual good friend in Dana White.

02:57:34 Speaker_10
He knows I'm not going to be an asshole. So he's comfortable. But you get a chance to see, well, he is that guy. Part of him is that guy. Like, it's not an act. That's who he is. He is that guy. He's not a terrible person.

02:57:47 Speaker_10
It's just you may or may not agree with his approach. You may or may not agree with how he runs his business and how he wants to do things.

02:57:54 Speaker_04
But if you keep using the word fascist against him, you ratchet up the pressure, you ratchet up the tension. So people are looking at him going, well, this guy's a fascist. He's Hitler.

02:58:07 Speaker_04
Therefore, we need to do everything in our power to stop Hitler coming to power. Because if they did that in the 1930s, we wouldn't have World War II. Six million Jews wouldn't be exterminated.

02:58:17 Speaker_10
Whippy Goldberg was just saying he's gonna separate interracial couples. What? See if you can find that. See if you can find that. Really? Yeah, I couldn't even watch it. I saw the clip and I was like, I can't even watch this. I'll lose my marbles.

02:58:29 Speaker_10
It's so crazy. But it's like, put you in camps. I've heard that too. They're gonna put people in camps. They're gonna put gay people in camps too. What? He was president for four years. None of these things happened. He was already president.

02:58:41 Speaker_10
This is part of the problem with saying this. If he wasn't president before, and he was saying outrageous things like, what if this guy gets in power? But he was president.

02:58:50 Speaker_01
He was president for four years. And it's interesting from people who keep talking about hate, how much of that they're projecting onto him. Well, let's have a look at this. It's going to sound a little crazy.

02:58:59 Speaker_10
We need some volume.

02:59:04 Speaker_00
different ways than to come after people because of their heritage, which they are born into. It is not a choice. You are who you are. And here you're going to make all kinds of fun. People said no more. We're tired of that.

02:59:17 Speaker_00
That's why people are saying, right, that you heard the women say, listen, What we heard at that rally should be enough to shake folks awake, because he's talking about you. All of you. He's talking about you. It's us.

02:59:35 Speaker_00
He's not going to be, he's not going to, you know, say, oh, you're with a white guy. I'm going to keep you from being deported. No, he's going to deport you and put the white guy with someone else. The man is out there.

02:59:48 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's a large jump from what he's ever said. That's a crazy thing to say.

02:59:55 Speaker_01
That's why I thought you were very wise to bring the view up as the first thing you talked to him about, right? Because you're just going, this is how it used to be. And I remember the exact moment. Nine years ago. I remember.

03:00:07 Speaker_10
It wasn't that long ago. Our friend Donald Trump, they all come and hug him and kiss him. Everybody loves you. They were talking about how they love him. Yeah, man. And the audience was cheering. He was getting cheered on The View. It is so wild to watch.

03:00:23 Speaker_10
We didn't play it for him because we didn't want to give anybody any excuse to give us a copyright strike. Because I wanted to play it. I wanted to start the show off with him listening to him being on The View and go, what is this like?

03:00:34 Speaker_10
Because like there's no one ever that's had the machine turn on them. Whether you agree with him or not agree, you must admit like the Steele dossier, all the crazy stuff they put out on him.

03:00:44 Speaker_10
They've turned this machine on him in this way you've never seen before. And this is how they used to look at him just nine years ago.

03:00:51 Speaker_06
It was longer than that. It was 2011. Oh, was it? When he was running for president? No, he wasn't running for president then. Oh, he was talking about running for president? He might have mentioned it then, but I don't know.

03:01:00 Speaker_10
Well, he went on The View multiple times. How many times did he go on?

03:01:03 Speaker_06
He's been on, but I was trying to look, too. When was the last time he went on? That could have been his last appearance, I think.

03:01:07 Speaker_10
Well, that makes sense, right? Because Barbara Walters, when did she stop being on it?

03:01:11 Speaker_06
Yeah, she was on that appearance.

03:01:12 Speaker_10
And she looked pretty young back then. So 2011. So, okay, 13 years ago. Still nuts. Still nuts. It's not that long ago.

03:01:20 Speaker_01
Not that long ago. And for that complete about turn to go from the greatest guy who ever wants to be the president to the devil incarnate in 13 years. From the same people. From the same people.

03:01:31 Speaker_10
Joy Behar hugging him. Whoopi Goldberg hugging him. All of them hugging him.

03:01:36 Speaker_11
That's quite a transformation.

03:01:38 Speaker_10
Well, it's like they got their marching orders.

03:01:41 Speaker_10
He did he was in the 2012 bows out of the 2012 US president So that was when he was thinking about doing it in 2012 Oh remember remember at the White House press correspondents dinner when Obama roasted him I'm one thing that you'll never be president in the United States He was like

03:02:00 Speaker_10
There's there's fucking dudes out there that are like the boogeyman they just will keep coming Well, that's part of his appeal man is like when he got shot and he's badass.

03:02:13 Speaker_01
We made this fight. Oh

03:02:15 Speaker_01
Fight fight fight and you know at this rally there was this Point when he was just he really struck home for me why people like him It was like he was talking about China and somebody had said Put our report that if America had a war with China America would lose and he was like first of all Why would you put out that report and secondly we would kick their ass?

03:02:40 Speaker_01
And you kind of go, if you're an American and you want your country to be great, you want it to be successful, left or right, whatever your position is, do you want to be on the side of the people who think America's future is behind it?

03:02:54 Speaker_01
Or do you want to be on the side of the people who think, yeah, we're going to kick ass, we're going to succeed, we're going to make money, we're going to be successful.

03:03:00 Speaker_10
And there's also like looking at some of his foreign policy decisions and whether or not he was correct. One of them was the embargoes on Iran. That that seemed to have freed up a whole lot of money when the Biden administration

03:03:19 Speaker_10
Let those funds free and then October 7th happens shortly thereafter And when you know that they fund these various terrorist organizations, this is something Iran's done This is not a big stretch to think that one of the reasons why these things are happening Was because people went a different way than Donald Trump did when he was in office Yeah, a lot of people feel like that but like logical reasonable left-wing people even

03:03:49 Speaker_01
Because it's true. It's true. If you give the Iranians a shit ton of money, and also if they don't fear repercussions, you put those two things together, is it a surprise?

03:03:59 Speaker_04
No. Do you think part of the problem is we think everyone just thinks like us? So we're like, you know what, if we give more money to the Ayatollah, you know what he's going to do?

03:04:09 Speaker_04
Yeah, all right, you know, he's a bit nuts, but he's going to put money into social programs The average Iranian is going to be happier, healthier, wealthier.

03:04:18 Speaker_10
Did you ever see that interview where this woman was asking the Taliban whether or not they're going to let women run for office now?

03:04:25 Speaker_02
They just burst out laughing. Laughing in her face.

03:04:28 Speaker_10
Like, what are you talking about? You don't understand this place at all.

03:04:31 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's called mirror image bias actually a lot of foreign Intel guys They get trained for years to not think that everyone is like them because they're absolutely not The people in charge of Iran that they want to wage jihad against America right and Israel, right?

03:04:47 Speaker_01
What do jihadis do when they have money and opportunity? Oh

03:04:50 Speaker_10
Yeah, they go to jihad. They start going. It's not complicated. It's not complicated. And Trump was aware of that. Some of the decisions that he made were better decisions. That's objectively true.

03:05:06 Speaker_01
And now Israel is having to deal with these terrorist groups that are armed and funded to the teeth.

03:05:11 Speaker_10
Yeah. And then we're in this place where we're arguing about jokes. Weird, right?

03:05:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, it is.

03:05:19 Speaker_10
Fucking weird.

03:05:20 Speaker_04
Because it's easier to argue about jokes than it is to talk about the Middle East and be actually honest about it and go, what Israel is facing is an existential fight for survival and

03:05:33 Speaker_04
Israel is causing, you know, there are war crimes happening, whatever. But you go and you can't just let terrorist groups attack a country. You can't let Hezbollah, from October the 8th, fire rockets into northern Israel perpetually.

03:05:49 Speaker_04
That can't be allowed to continue. It's either going to escalate or you're going to need to de-escalate. Because the one thing with jihadists is, you know, they're committed. They're pretty passionate.

03:06:00 Speaker_04
Yeah, they're committed, and they believe in a global Islamic caliphate, and they want to wipe Israel off the map, and then they want to wipe all sovereign nations off the map, so they get a global Islamic caliphate.

03:06:13 Speaker_04
Which is why so many moderate Islamic countries crack down on these people really hard, because they understand the threat from these people.

03:06:21 Speaker_10
And then there's the reality that what Israel's doing is also horrific, right?

03:06:26 Speaker_10
You see the murdered children and women, and you see the videos of people getting blown up with indiscriminate bombing of apartment buildings because someone underneath it is Hamas. That's fucking terrifying, too.

03:06:39 Speaker_10
So there's no win, because no one can justify that. You watch that, and you see how many innocent people died. This is fucking insane. And then there's the argument that, well, but Hamas is using them as human shields. There's no other way to do this.

03:06:51 Speaker_10
than to just bomb where you know civilians are going to be because bad guys are there also?

03:06:56 Speaker_10
This is the crazy thing about war, because in the past, I think this was a strategy that would have been employed by almost any powerful nation trying to wipe out an enemy, but we don't, like, look, what do we do in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

03:07:13 Speaker_10
We just indiscriminately killed everybody, just dropped a nuclear bomb on an entire city.

03:07:21 Speaker_01
But the question is, what should Israel do instead? That's a good question. That's a real good question.

03:07:24 Speaker_01
And this is the problem, because I take your point, but the issue is that Hamas have openly stated on numerous occasions that they want to maximize civilian casualties. They're doing it deliberately.

03:07:35 Speaker_01
So the question is, and we've had pro-Palestine guests on the show, we've had pro-Israel guests on the show, and we've asked them basically trying to get to the bottom of this. How do you do this? I get that what's happening is terrible.

03:07:47 Speaker_01
It is terrible. No one would dispute that. No one who has a conscience or a heart would look at what's happening in Gaza and think that's fucking great. Nobody.

03:07:56 Speaker_01
But at the same time, the question ultimately is, after October 7th, what is Israel supposed to do?

03:08:02 Speaker_01
What are you supposed to do when your country's been attacked from several sides by different terrorist groups all funded by Iran and sponsored in other ways and they give them weapons? What are you supposed to do?

03:08:13 Speaker_01
Now, you say, well, they're supposed to, isn't there another way? I'm asking that question. I haven't heard a persuasive answer of what they're supposed to do instead.

03:08:21 Speaker_10
The problem is when you have very religious, ideologically convinced people that their thing is also about if you die, you go to heaven.

03:08:34 Speaker_11
Yes.

03:08:34 Speaker_10
And you're a martyr, and that's a worthy goal. There's not another religion that espouses that. There's another religion that enforces that idea in people. That scares the shit out of people, that they're okay with people dying.

03:08:51 Speaker_01
I would love for somebody to have an answer to this. But I just tell you, as you know, I have relatives in Ukraine. What did they do when the war started? They turned every fucking basement into a bunker to protect civilians.

03:09:02 Speaker_01
That is not what Hamas are doing. They have these tunnels. They don't let civilians in there. That's where the terrorists hang out. So what do you do? What is Israel supposed to do?

03:09:11 Speaker_10
Didn't Erik Prince have some sort of an idea to flood the tunnels?

03:09:14 Speaker_01
Flush out the tunnels, yeah. It's not a bad idea. Why didn't they implement that? I have no idea. I have no idea.

03:09:20 Speaker_10
Because that would have kind of killed everybody wouldn't it if we really could do that Yeah, probably kill hostages too. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but they're probably already dead or if not, they want to be dead.

03:09:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean imagine October 7th hostage is still alive for a year, man And this is why I'm asking the question because I just think what would the UK do?

03:09:40 Speaker_01
what would America do if you had a rampaging terrorist attack across the border and missiles from the north and

03:09:45 Speaker_10
It's a very good question. I think it's also from the perspective of people that live in Israel versus the perspective of people that live in America. We haven't been invaded.

03:09:53 Speaker_10
And the people in Israel who have mandatory military service, and they're constantly on threat. I had a buddy of mine who was my kickboxing coach, Shuki, and he's from Israel. And he was always playing the bongo drums. I went to his house for dinner.

03:10:06 Speaker_10
Everybody's dancing and singing. I was like, why are you guys so happy? Everybody's so joyful. He goes, man, when you live in Israel, any day could be your last. So it's like, just party, have a good time. And they had this idea.

03:10:18 Speaker_10
And I think if you're an American and you don't feel that threat, it just feels abstract, you're not going to understand the mentality of someone who lives in a place that's surrounded by people who hate them.

03:10:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah, and we know we had Nick Freitas. Do you know Nick Nick Freitas?

03:10:33 Speaker_01
No, he's a Green Beret former Green Beret He has a YouTube channel I think as well and we asked him about this, you know, you were you you went he served in Iraq I think mm-hmm two tours and he talked about this.

03:10:44 Speaker_01
We've got this interview coming out and it's like there is no There is no way to deal with terrorists who are hiding behind civilians, rather than by going in and dealing with it. There's no other way. I wish there was.

03:10:56 Speaker_01
I'm genuinely asking the question, what is the other way? And if it is, Israel should use it. But if there isn't, what are they supposed to do?

03:11:05 Speaker_10
It's also a crazy subject in America, right? Because there's people on the left that do not want to support Israel, and they think that Palestine is

03:11:15 Speaker_10
you know, that Palestine should be free, and they'll say, from the river to the sea, and they chant it out, and they don't exactly even know what they're saying, which means, like, an annihilation of Israel.

03:11:24 Speaker_10
From the river to the sea, that's literally what that means. But then they... they're now this sort of, there's like this anti-Semitic thing that's on the left, which didn't exist before.

03:11:36 Speaker_10
It's just like the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic thing that you never heard before from the left. The left was always like super pro-Israel.

03:11:44 Speaker_01
But it makes sense, doesn't it? Because if you've had a decade of wokeness, the point of wokeness is The people who are successful, the people who have the upper hand, they're the bad guys.

03:11:56 Speaker_10
Right. Always colonizers.

03:11:57 Speaker_01
Right. So Israel is the bad guy by default. Right. And by the way, that doesn't mean that, you know, the situation in Gaza hasn't has been perfect. Nobody would argue that. Right.

03:12:08 Speaker_01
But just because a country is succeeding in its military campaign doesn't mean they're the bad guys. Right. The problem with Jews, though, is they're too successful. The Jews are too successful. That's the problem with Jews. They're too successful.

03:12:25 Speaker_01
This tiny minority of people who've been oppressed throughout history and yet they're still succeeding, they're making money, they're successful, the country they've built is more powerful than all its neighbors. It's not a good look if you're woke.

03:12:42 Speaker_01
How are these fuckers that's the argument? So what's the anti-semitism on the left that you're talking about?

03:12:47 Speaker_01
It's the logical conclusion of wokeness, which is why I could never understand why Jews went along with wokeness massively massively like Jews vote like 60 70 75 percent for the Democrat Party in this country and But that was before October 7th.

03:13:05 Speaker_01
I think that's, you know, talking to a lot of people. We just had Bill Ackman on the show. That's changed people's minds quite a bit. I don't, I'm not saying he was woke before that, but you know what I mean.

03:13:14 Speaker_04
Yeah. And it's also as well, you talk about the left, but the left in the UK has always had a problem with antisemitism, Joe.

03:13:20 Speaker_07
Really?

03:13:21 Speaker_04
Yes. There's always been a faction of the left that has looked at Jews and seen financiers, business people, rich people. They control the means of production. They're the ones keeping the ordinary man on the street down.

03:13:36 Speaker_04
We need to get rid of these financiers, the oligarchs, the bankers, and then we'll be able to liberate people. And there's always been that faction on the UK left. that that's what we need to do.

03:13:49 Speaker_04
And when Jeremy Corbyn was in power, or wasn't in power, was leader of the Labour Party, there was Jewish MPs, Labour MPs, who literally walked out of the party because they were saying that he was not tackling and dealing with anti-Semitism and that this was allowed to run rampant within the Labour Party.

03:14:12 Speaker_01
You know, Thomas Sowell was once asked, what do Jews need to do to stop antisemitism? And he paused for a second and went, fail.

03:14:21 Speaker_10
That guy's so wise.

03:14:22 Speaker_01
Oh man, he's incredible.

03:14:23 Speaker_10
Fascinating person. And what kind of intellectual courage to step out on those limbs that he does and say these logical things that are against the, it's, you know, heretic.

03:14:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, I'm such a such a great admirer of his is so such an interesting writer. He's got so many counterintuitive ideas Yeah, super informative.

03:14:42 Speaker_07
He's great in interviews, too.

03:14:44 Speaker_01
Yeah, what if he still doesn't he's very he I think he's very old now Yeah, so he does I think he we tried to get him when we nearly had a phone interview with him But he didn't quite happen, but I'd still love to make that happen. Yeah.

03:14:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, but he's getting older. Unfortunately I've seen some of the gnome Chomsky interviews now, you know

03:14:59 Speaker_04
Stop doing those. I mean, when he came out, I mean, he was hardline on the vaccine.

03:15:05 Speaker_10
Yeah. Like, have you done any research at all? Yeah. But I think that's an old person thing.

03:15:11 Speaker_04
Yeah.

03:15:11 Speaker_10
I think old people get really scared of diseases. Yeah.

03:15:14 Speaker_04
Yeah.

03:15:14 Speaker_10
And they've got every right to be scared of diseases because they're far more vulnerable to them. Exactly. So they're thinking of something that can kill you, whereas the young people are thinking, oh, it's going to be inconvenient.

03:15:23 Speaker_01
Yeah, yeah, and also you know much better than either of us every great champion has to retire at some point.

03:15:28 Speaker_10
Yes Yeah, you have to your your shit doesn't work right anymore including your brain It's gonna come a point in time where you're you're not thinking well You're not very logical and you're not objective but the thing that made you a champion is the thing that's gonna make you not want to retire and

03:15:43 Speaker_10
Yep, that's what fighters, for sure, that's why they fight way past their prime and it gets really sad. You never want to let it go. Because why would you? Why would you want to let it go? Right, especially if that's what you do.

03:15:54 Speaker_10
Imagine if what you do relies on a very brief window of power that you have physically, where your hormones are firing. You don't have that much time.

03:16:05 Speaker_04
Yeah, and then when it slips away you still feel like you're you but you just you can't move I remember when watching Tyson Fury I can't remember who he fought he fought in London and Conson and I were talking about it because we were going Oh, is he gonna retire?

03:16:19 Speaker_04
He said he's gonna retire and then he entered the stadium on a gold throne carried by people He's fighting Usyk again, oh man, that's a tough fight.

03:16:32 Speaker_10
Yeah. Yeah that Usyk guys He's so talented. He's so small for a heavyweight, too. He's nonstop movement and his footwork and everything. It's so different than anybody else. Joshua didn't know what to do with him.

03:16:46 Speaker_10
He's like, where is this guy going to be when I'm throwing punches? He was moving all over the place.

03:16:52 Speaker_04
Yeah, it's so different. It's so different. I remember when I was watching the Joshua Usyk fight, it made me realize the importance of technique because Joshua is a real physical specimen.

03:17:03 Speaker_10
And has great technique too.

03:17:04 Speaker_04
Yeah, but he doesn't have that elite level of technique that Usyk had and you could see the combinations, the way he was throwing punches. He just didn't have an answer to it because he's never been exposed to that level of technique.

03:17:15 Speaker_10
Well you know what it is, he's a heavyweight and the heavyweights were never really that good in terms of that kind of technique. It's like you need it at like middleweight and light heavyweight because everyone's super talented and technical.

03:17:28 Speaker_10
When you get up to the heavyweight division, guys tend, it tends to be like a lower bar

03:17:32 Speaker_10
You know, and so when you have an elite athlete like Joshua, who's like fast, knockout power, he can excel without having the kind of technique that a guy like Lomachenko and Usyk were trained by the same guy.

03:17:44 Speaker_10
They were both trained by Lomachenko's father. So they both have extreme technique. And then you have Bivol.

03:17:52 Speaker_10
Bitter beef that just fought same thing both like super Soviet style boxing and you know you whoa like this is Technique like really really high level technique, but it's rare that someone with that kind of technique gets into the heavyweight division

03:18:07 Speaker_04
and that's why Fury is just a magnificent fighter because Fury is from a gypsy background and those boys are taught to fight at the age of three, four years old and it's in their culture they all fight, they all trained as boxers and telling you as someone who has broken up fights with gypsy kids when I used to teach them they are taught never to back down

03:18:28 Speaker_04
You never back down, you always go for it until the very end. I remember when I was watching the Fury... Wilder? Yeah, Wilder fight, and I remember someone saying to me, like, he's knocked down, he ain't getting up.

03:18:41 Speaker_04
I'm like, mate, trust me, he's gonna get up. Yeah. He's gonna get up. Crazy. Yeah, but that's why Fury's a force of nature. It's that technique he has, which has been instilled in him from basically the moment he could walk.

03:18:51 Speaker_10
Technique and huge. And if you watch the Usyk fight, he was touching Usyk up in the beginning of the fight.

03:18:57 Speaker_10
I mean that reach and that jab the accuracy that he has he was doing really well in that fight until he started to slow down a little bit and Who's sick wind up just catching him?

03:19:07 Speaker_01
Yeah, bro. It's an exciting moment in UFC as well the one that would just happen to my of me, bro.

03:19:13 Speaker_10
He's terrifying He's to he does it to everybody everybody he gets a hold of he just ragdolls even like really elite wrestlers. It's very extraordinary his talent is undeniable and

03:19:23 Speaker_10
And Robert Whittaker, seeing him breaking Robert Whittaker's jaw just by squeezing across his face. Apparently Robert Whittaker had a broken jaw when he was a child, and it worked on him, but it's always been vulnerable.

03:19:35 Speaker_10
His front teeth have been pushed in before. In the Drekka's Duplicity fight, he had a problem with it as well, apparently. But this was different.

03:19:41 Speaker_10
Because this was like, Chemayev got the blade of his forearm across the jaw, and it was like, just crushing those teeth, and it goes into his mouth. You saw the photo?

03:19:50 Speaker_01
Yeah. Yeah, man. Do you think if that doesn't happen, Whitaker stands up? Who knows?

03:19:58 Speaker_10
I mean, Chemayev was smothering him. Whitaker looked exhausted. It was very early in the fight to yeah first round I mean, it's just the amount of technique that hams out has and the intensity of his attack is Unlike anybody else. He's so talented.

03:20:13 Speaker_10
He's so good at grappling and his stand-up is fucking dangerous, too And I think he's way better at 185, I really do. I think at 170, he was killing himself to make that weight. And now that you see him at 185, I think he has more energy.

03:20:27 Speaker_10
And he's more than big enough for those guys. He's huge. He's a big guy. He's good, man. He's really fucking good.

03:20:33 Speaker_06
But Iliot Deporia, that was the most shocking. It says that Robert only landed two strikes. Wow.

03:20:38 Speaker_10
That's crazy. I don't even know what he hit him with. Might have hit him with a leg kick. I don't remember. I don't remember. I just remember Hamzat shooting. Two leg kicks. Yeah, there it is. Two leg kicks.

03:20:49 Speaker_10
So Hamza just shot in on him and just started beating the fuck out of him. It was so relentless and overwhelming. And when Robert got up once, Hamza dove on him again and had him down again a second. So it's demoralizing.

03:21:02 Speaker_01
Yeah. Reminded me of Khabib as well, where you get up, you get straight back down, and then you just run out of energy.

03:21:08 Speaker_10
Maybe even more intense, maybe even more dominant. To do that to Whitaker, a guy who's a world champion, even the Conor fight, it took a while before he overwhelmed him. It took a while before he was just beating Conor's ass.

03:21:24 Speaker_10
The beginning of the fight is more competitive. This was just an overwhelming victory. Hamza just charged in, dove in, got him down and mauled him. Mauled him until he broke his face.

03:21:38 Speaker_01
Do you think it's different with Du Plessis? Because he can wrestle.

03:21:42 Speaker_10
He can wrestle, he's got very good jiu-jitsu, he hits fucking hard, and he's a big, durable dude. But I don't know if he's going to be able to wrestle with that guy. Like, I don't know, man. The Hamzat's skill is so high level, it makes me wonder.

03:21:56 Speaker_10
There's some guys, like you see it in Jiu-Jitsu, there's some guys that look really good until they fight somebody who's really, really good. And then they get manhandled. It's like everybody looks good until they face Gordon Ryan.

03:22:07 Speaker_10
Gordon Ryan can do that to anybody. Is Hamza at that level? It kind of appears that he is. It appears that he's, in terms of the grappling that he possesses, seems magnitudes greater than anybody else in his division.

03:22:21 Speaker_04
But it also, it's that skill thing that we talk about when you can have athleticism, you can have strength.

03:22:26 Speaker_04
But when you come up against someone who is skill is far superior to yours, eventually you're going to burn out because there's only a fine amount of strength and power that you have got.

03:22:38 Speaker_04
And eventually, if you're fighting somebody who can match you physically, but also has the skill on top of it, I mean, you're kind of done really, unless you get lucky with a punch.

03:22:47 Speaker_01
I guess counter-argument might be, and you'll correct me Joe, Gilbert Burns fight, he won, but he was close.

03:22:55 Speaker_10
It was very close. I think it's at 170. I don't think he's the same guy at 170. I also think Gilbert is tough as fuck.

03:23:01 Speaker_10
And at that point in time, Gilbert had, he challenged Usman for the title and lost, but then came back and was one of the best 170 pounders in the world. It was a big step up in competition that I don't think Hamza had faced before.

03:23:15 Speaker_10
And Gilbert is a world champion in jiu-jitsu. He's a very, very, very good grappler. So there's a difference there. When you get Gilbert to the ground, it's not that simple.

03:23:24 Speaker_10
You're fighting off arm bars and triangles and guillotines and he's back up to his feet. There was a lot of wild scrambles. It was just...

03:23:31 Speaker_10
You know, Gilbert's a little older now, but back then he was really in his prime or close to it, and he's just that fucking good. That's why that fight was so close. It's just Gilbert, especially in that fight, he was that good. I mean, it was a war.

03:23:43 Speaker_10
He dropped Chemayev, he cracked him with the right hand, but Chemayev, even when he got dropped, he dove in and took him down. Like, he's fucking good. Good man. He's good. What he did to Whitaker was just nobody thought that was gonna happen.

03:23:55 Speaker_10
That was crazy.

03:23:56 Speaker_11
That was scary. Yeah, that was scary. And what Ilya did to Max is even scarier.

03:24:00 Speaker_04
Oh, wow. I saw Max as being totally under in control of that entire fight. I was like, he's got it tactically. He's got him. He's gonna win this.

03:24:11 Speaker_10
I wouldn't have said that. I wouldn't have said that. I would have said there's always danger with Teporia. Fucking so dangerous when he hits you it's so it's different than anybody especially with his hands.

03:24:20 Speaker_10
He's fucking boxing is so high level and There's shots that he was landing that would thud and you could see it in Max's face He caught him with a bunch of good shots before that but Max was landing a lot of stuff, too

03:24:33 Speaker_10
But he was forced into these exchanges. And when you're forced into these exchanges, Ilya has superior technique. His punches come straight down the pipe. His hooks are perfect. His distance management is perfect. He's super aggressive.

03:24:46 Speaker_10
And the consequences of getting hit by him are so grave. That left hook he caught Max with? Oh my goodness. Just spun his head around.

03:24:55 Speaker_04
You rarely see, I mean in the UFC, you see obviously people who are multi-disciplined, but it's rare that you see someone who's so pure with the way they hit. I was watching him go, this guy looks like a boxer the way that he hits.

03:25:09 Speaker_10
But he's that way with everything. He's that way with his grappling, he's that way with his submissions. He's just really, really fucking good. And he's the new guard, right?

03:25:18 Speaker_10
Every generation comes up with a new guy who's a new high-water mark of technique. That's where Ilya is.

03:25:25 Speaker_01
So who's going to challenge him now, do you think? Volkanovsky.

03:25:28 Speaker_10
They're going to have a rematch. I think Volkanovsky taking that fight three months after getting head kicked into a KO, that's kind of crazy to do. Three or four months later, he's fighting Ilya Tuporev, the most dangerous puncher he's ever faced.

03:25:41 Speaker_10
I think that was crazy. And I think now he's had a long time to recover. But it's always going to be in his head that that guy just knocked me the fuck out.

03:25:50 Speaker_10
And look, that's the kind of thing that drives a guy like Volkanovsky, because he's such a warrior. He doesn't shy away from the most difficult challenges. Because if he did, he could have taken some fights with some up-and-coming contenders.

03:26:01 Speaker_10
He could have said, there's probably someone who wants to challenge him. There's some guy he thinks he could definitely beat. Let me just get this fight under my belt, and then, you know, but he's no.

03:26:10 Speaker_10
He wants to go right back in there and fight for the title again.

03:26:12 Speaker_01
And am I right in thinking there it's power versus speed, because Volkanovsky's so fast, so quick.

03:26:20 Speaker_10
Ilya's fast too, man. Yeah. There's no difference in speed. Really? No, I don't think so. Oh, wow. I don't think there's... There's a little bit of difference when you're loading up. You're not going to hit as fast.

03:26:29 Speaker_10
You know, if you're just trying to, like, touch someone, you can touch them much faster. But Illy is fast as fuck. He's not slow at all. He doesn't have any disadvantages. He doesn't have any weaknesses, man.

03:26:41 Speaker_10
That's why I say he's the new high-water mark. There's people that are thinking maybe he's the best pound-for-pound fighter alive. There's a lot of discussion about that online.

03:26:49 Speaker_10
It's a little premature, especially when Jon Jones is still out there, and there's other elite guys that are still out there.

03:26:56 Speaker_10
Islam Makachev's another one, you know, it's a real argument that he's the best pound-for-pound guy alive, but it's fucking close Ilya's he might be the best and if you think about Volkanovsky a fire is never the same after they've been knocked out particularly twice in a couple of months time and for four months time and

03:27:14 Speaker_04
So there's already an injury there, there's already a propensity to get knocked out, there's a weakness, and then you're going up against a fighter with that power?

03:27:23 Speaker_04
You know, or you think all he's gonna need to do is just connect and he may be Sparco again?

03:27:27 Speaker_10
Who knows? I mean, I don't know what kind of strategy Volkanovski will employ. I don't know if they'll try to do something different.

03:27:33 Speaker_10
City kickboxing, the place that he trains at, is very, very, very high level, and those guys always have excellent game plans, so maybe there's something they saw that Volkanovsky couldn't capitalize on because he was still dealing with the effects of the KO loss to Makachev, which, you know, you get KO'd like that, a bad one.

03:27:50 Speaker_10
That was a high kick, shin to the head. Those stay with you for a long time. You might not be the same person. So he might have fought still under the effects of that KO. So now he gets knocked out again by Ilya. Now he's had a long time to rest.

03:28:05 Speaker_10
And that's what you really need if you've been knocked out like that. You need treatments. There's like concussion protocols, a bunch of different things that people can do to help their brain health.

03:28:14 Speaker_10
Like when Manny Pacquiao got knocked out by Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Roach didn't let him fight for a year. He said, no, you gotta do anything for one year. Nothing. I don't want you doing anything. You train, that's it. Work out, hit the bag.

03:28:27 Speaker_10
No fights for a year.

03:28:31 Speaker_04
It's it's a really interesting moment because UFC is very much in the incendency when compared to boxing Yeah, but you've looked at all this Saudi money that is being pumped into boxing now.

03:28:41 Speaker_04
Mm-hmm And you know because you previously, you know, the thing that we're in boxing as we all know is promoters not and you know teams not wanting to put their great fighter against the other great fighter because they want to protect their asset and

03:28:54 Speaker_04
I'm thinking now, you look at the Saudis, they're flooding it with money, so are we actually going to see interesting fights again? Because at the moment, you're starting to see it happen more and more in the heavyweight division.

03:29:07 Speaker_10
Yeah, you're going to see it. The Saudis are doing a great service in that regard, giving people fights they want to see. Because there's a lot of interesting fights that can be made. If you can get Benavidez versus Canelo, for instance.

03:29:19 Speaker_10
That is the fight that everybody wants to see at 168. That's a fascinating fight. Benavidez at 168 is a monster. And Canelo is the king. So it's like, that would be an amazing fight. If they could get them to do that, that would be awesome.

03:29:32 Speaker_10
They might fight at 175, who knows. But if they can do that, if the Saudis can come up with enough money. And the other one is Terrence Crawford. Terrence Crawford versus Canelo. That's fucking interesting. That's really interesting.

03:29:43 Speaker_10
If they can pay them enough money to get them to do it.

03:29:46 Speaker_04
Because if they can pay enough money, then what you have is a real competitor to the UFC. Because at the moment, and I like watching UFC, but I'm a boxing guy, I love it, that's how I was raised.

03:29:58 Speaker_01
Content we always have an argument about it, but it's undeniable that UFC is more entertaining because they're the fights that you want to see But it's not just that this is what I was going to ask you to it's not just about the headline fight the difference between the UFC and boxing is if you're watching UFC you're gonna see five great fights

03:30:15 Speaker_10
Right.

03:30:16 Speaker_01
Minimum.

03:30:16 Speaker_10
Right.

03:30:17 Speaker_01
On a card. Right. With boxing, no one watches the undercard.

03:30:21 Speaker_10
Well, the Saudis are doing a much better job of that. Riyadh season has done a fantastic job of putting compelling undercard fights. And that is also because they're throwing that money around. You know, like the Bival better be a fight.

03:30:34 Speaker_10
Riyadh season put that on. That was a fight that a lot of people didn't know if it was ever going to happen because both guys are undefeated. Both guys are world champions. You can make a lot of money just beating up other guys.

03:30:46 Speaker_10
You don't have to lose your O. You don't have to have these two guys go to war like this.

03:30:50 Speaker_04
And all of a sudden, it's made boxing interesting. Because lots of people are talking about sports watching and obviously that's a different conversation. But finally now, I'm seeing fights and I'm like, I want to watch this fight.

03:31:01 Speaker_10
Yes, yes, it is. It's a fun time to be a sports fan. It's probably one of the greatest moments ever for combat sports, like right now.

03:31:12 Speaker_11
Feels like it.

03:31:13 Speaker_10
It has to be with the UFC, because the UFC has kind of redefined what combat sports are, and it's the greatest time ever for the UFC. And then at the same time, boxing is still driving.

03:31:22 Speaker_04
And it's becoming exciting because you're seeing great fights.

03:31:26 Speaker_04
And for people like us who grew up and saw the great fighters of the 80s and the 90s, all of a sudden we see this happening again and we're just like, ah, actually, I remember why I fell in love with this sport.

03:31:39 Speaker_10
How about Anthony Joshua and Dubois? DuBois is coming into his own, man. That's what that is. He's only like 27, right? Yeah, he's coming into his own. That guy's fucking scary. He's dangerous.

03:31:52 Speaker_04
And you know the interesting thing was, is that at least the press in the UK, they didn't give him a hope.

03:31:57 Speaker_04
Everybody was talking about, you know, like when Joshua gets DuBois out of the way, then we can move on to the next fight, and this is a fight that we want to see. It seems like Joshua believed that.

03:32:07 Speaker_10
going into that fight. Seems like he believed that he was just going to dominate him.

03:32:11 Speaker_04
Yeah, and he just got ruthlessly exposed. The power of Dubois. I remember I bought into it. I was like, okay, so I'll watch it, but you know, this is going to be a stepping stone match. It wasn't a stepping stone.

03:32:23 Speaker_10
The aggression too, man. He was so aggressive. He was just in the pocket constantly, just forcing Joshua to go to war. It was wild.

03:32:31 Speaker_04
Yeah, and it rapidly became apparent that Joshua couldn't match him. He just couldn't go to war with him. And at the end, this showed what the fight was like. Everybody was like, look, to Joshua, I think you're done. And nobody predicted that.

03:32:44 Speaker_04
Isn't that crazy?

03:32:45 Speaker_10
Right after he knocks out Francis Ngannou, everyone's like, you're back. Yeah. You know? I mean, he flattened Francis Ngannou and everyone was like, oh, Joshua's back. Look how good he looked.

03:32:55 Speaker_01
Ruthless fucking game, man. You mentioned Angan and I'm so gutted. I just heard Dana White say that that fight with John Jones is never gonna happen. I'm so gutted about that, man.

03:33:04 Speaker_10
Yeah, I'm gonna stay out of that one. I love Francis. I love Dana. I don't get it. I don't know what happened between those two. They apparently have some sort of a personal thing with each other. Dana says he's not a good guy.

03:33:16 Speaker_10
Everything I've ever, every interaction I've ever had with him, he's a great guy. I really love talking to him. I've had him on the podcast a couple of times. His story about being a child working in a sand mine is crazy.

03:33:29 Speaker_10
His story about making his way from Cameroon all the way to the coast and then getting sent back to the Sahara Desert like six times. It's a crazy story.

03:33:42 Speaker_10
You know, being homeless in France and walking into a gym and then all of a sudden becoming the UFC heavyweight champion of the world. It's nuts. It's a crazy story. It's a literal story out of a movie. You know, I don't know what their beef is.

03:33:56 Speaker_10
No, I don't want to get involved in any beef. I'm just saying that's a great fucking fight.

03:34:00 Speaker_01
I wish he fought Jon Jones.

03:34:00 Speaker_10
Yeah, I wish he fought Jon Jones. But I'm interested in Jon Jones versus Stipe. Especially if Stipe's healthy. I'm very interested in that.

03:34:08 Speaker_01
I in no way wish to be disrespectful, but just a layman perspective, a lot of people I have heard saying Stipe is too old now.

03:34:17 Speaker_10
We don't know. He hasn't fought since he got knocked out by Francis, and Francis looked fucking unbelievable in that fight.

03:34:24 Speaker_10
He was patient and calculated, and his power is just so extraordinary that if he just catches you a couple of times, you're fucked. I mean, Francis hits so hard. And so him knocking out Stipe was not as much as, like, Stipe doesn't have it anymore.

03:34:37 Speaker_10
It was that Francis is that good, that big, that scary, a natural 265-pound knockout machine.

03:34:45 Speaker_01
Yeah, but John Jones, man. Come on.

03:34:46 Speaker_10
Yeah, John Jones is the highest fight IQ of all time next to Mighty Mouse Like fuck man. He's he finds a way to win, you know, and he's an unbelievable grappler That's why that would be such a good fight.

03:34:58 Speaker_10
It's a super high fight IQ use of distance better than anybody

03:35:03 Speaker_10
and then this ability to know how to win and can he win versus that guy because if you get clipped once just once what he did to Cain Velasquez just inside caught him with an uppercut you see Cain's just lights go out like Cain can take a shot man that guy's his power is different it's just extraordinary

03:35:23 Speaker_04
But I think you hit the nail on the head. He knows how to win. And you see it with all great athletes and teams.

03:35:31 Speaker_04
Even if they're not doing well, even if they're not fighting well, even if they're not playing well, they have that extra gear that they can go into. And then suddenly you go, how did he do that? How did they do that? They were on the ropes.

03:35:42 Speaker_10
Makes people different and it probably drives you crazy. They say Michael Jordan was out of his fucking mind when he was at his best.

03:35:49 Speaker_01
It's it's of course It's just but you know John's has looked, you know, I wouldn't say beatable But there are a couple of guys that pushed him three.

03:35:58 Speaker_10
It's more a he was playing with his food It's mostly John was bored. He was so dominant that he would not train, you know, and he fought Alexander Gustafsson they said he barely trained at all and

03:36:08 Speaker_10
Still beat him in the stretch and then the rematch wanted to prove a point trained really hard and beat the shit out of Gustafson, you know With John it's a lot of it is he's so much better than everybody else like when he's really threatened like with Cormier then you see how good he really is like when he knocked out Cormier with that head kick and That's when you see how good he is when he's when he's pushed Yeah, when you see John Jones with a real challenge in front of him, and hopefully that's the John Jones.

03:36:34 Speaker_10
We'll see what's deeper Yeah, let's hope he pushes him Listen gentlemen, it's always a pleasure. We just feel like forever Always pleasure talking you guys been always a lot of fun appreciate you appreciate you.

03:36:48 Speaker_01
Thank you.

03:36:48 Speaker_10
Tell everybody how to see your show We're on YouTube trigonometry.

03:36:52 Speaker_01
We both have a sub stack now as well All right, thank you

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