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Episode: #2210 - Calley Means & Casey Means, MD

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 02:28:42

Episode Shownotes

Dr. Casey Means is the Co-Founder of Levels Health, which provides insights into metabolic health through real-time data. Calley Means is the Co-Founder of Truemed, which enables HSA spending on healthy food, supplements and exercise. They are the co-authors of "Good Energy.

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www.caseymeans.com www.calleymeans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_01
The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06 Speaker_02
Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night or day.

00:00:12 Speaker_00
What's up? Nice to meet you guys. Great to be here. Thanks for having us, Joe. Thanks for coming here. I'm all happy, but this is not a happy subject. I don't know. It's probably a bad way to start off a podcast of how fucked we are.

00:00:23 Speaker_00
But I really appreciate what you guys have been doing. And I think I first saw you on Tucker. And the details of all the stuff you guys have exposed is, it's not, I mean, it's shocking, but it's not surprising. It's really crazy.

00:00:41 Speaker_00
So can we get into this? You used to be on the dark side. Let's start with you. Tell everybody your background, how you got started with this.

00:00:51 Speaker_02
We were born and raised in Washington, DC. And I thought being a good young conservative was supporting the pharma industry or supporting the food industry, defending those industries. So I went to Stanford with Casey. She studied biology.

00:01:01 Speaker_02
I studied political science and economics and went on campaigns, but then was a lobbyist. Everyone bipartisan in DC goes to work for the food and the pharma industry.

00:01:09 Speaker_02
And on one morning, I'm working with the pharma industry to literally steer money to the dean of Stanford Med School, who's a pain specialist, to be put on an NIH panel to say that opioids in 2011, that the issues around addiction were overblown.

00:01:24 Speaker_02
And we actually helped engineer an NIH panel to issue a report to say, opioids are okay, pain is a crisis.

00:01:31 Speaker_02
And then later in the afternoon, working for food companies, working for Coke, steering money to institutions of trust, steering money to the NAACP, to say that taking Coke off food stamps was racist.

00:01:42 Speaker_02
Coke soda today, to this day, is the number one item on food stamps. What I realized

00:01:47 Speaker_02
Fundamentally is that we are profiting, the biggest industries, the biggest spenders in the country are profiting from kids particularly getting addicted, sick and fear and then drugging them and profiting from that.

00:01:57 Speaker_00
What is the conversation like when you guys are formulating a strategy to try to pretend that opioids aren't a problem? Like, what are the conversations like?

00:02:08 Speaker_02
This is really important for people to understand. The institutional design of the system, which was greatly impacted by Casey's awakening, is that it takes good people and gives them plausible deniability.

00:02:19 Speaker_02
Nobody's in those back rooms conspiring and trying to be an evil person. They're literally talking to these junior staffers like me about the scourge of pain, you know, and how we have to get this innovation of opioids to the American people.

00:02:31 Speaker_02
Now it's about obesity and trying to get ozempic to six-year-olds, which is now the standard of care. In the rooms, it's about doing what's right and getting this innovation to the American people and everyone can kind of fool themselves.

00:02:44 Speaker_02
With the food, it's about getting cheap calories to kids.

00:02:46 Speaker_02
You know, it's not we're going to buy off and weaponize these academic research institutions like Harvard to say sugar doesn't cause obesity and then pay the NAACP to say lower income people need to be getting their government subsidized Coke.

00:02:57 Speaker_02
It's that we're promoting choice. And I really did believe that and people believe that. I think There's pings that's coming through in so many ways of people realizing this really isn't going the right direction.

00:03:10 Speaker_02
I think you see it with suicide rate among doctors, the burnout rate among doctors, the fact that every friend I have from Harvard Business School who went into the pharma industry, who went into the food industry, there's chronic rates of depression among elite business people.

00:03:24 Speaker_02
I think people are starting to realize this, but still, in these rooms, it's about doing the right thing. You convince yourself of that.

00:03:31 Speaker_00
Wow. So it's just everyone's sort of captured by this thing and nobody steps out of the lines.

00:03:37 Speaker_02
I mean, the highest level, Joe, you know, I think we don't realize that there's a defining existential issue in our country where our major institutions have been captured.

00:03:48 Speaker_02
I think there's like pings of consciousness trying to alert us to this, like, you know, you having people on that are calling this stuff out, trying to ring the alarm bell and people flocking to this show.

00:03:57 Speaker_02
you know, iconoclasts from the military-industrial complex, from the healthcare-industrial complex.

00:04:03 Speaker_02
I think Elon being the richest person, the world's trying to sell us something, it's like, let's get resources to these people calling these things out. I think it's like Donald Trump, like, I've been thinking about this a lot.

00:04:12 Speaker_02
Why is he the defining figure of our lifetime? Like, why have voters again and again and again gone to him and said, you know, this MAGA movement, like, Why are we supporting this person, making him the defining person of our generation?

00:04:24 Speaker_02
What does he represent? He represents putting finger on something that's just not quite right with institutions.

00:04:29 Speaker_02
And I think the problem is we can't quite wrap our head around how bad it is and how so many people are complicit, but there's all these signs right now.

00:04:37 Speaker_02
And I think we're going to be brought to our knees if we don't realize this, that our institutions have been captured. To me, healthcare, what Casey talks about,

00:04:44 Speaker_02
It's a really visceral example of something just not right with what's happening to food, what's happening to our kids' health. And I think it's happening to the military too, or the military-industrial complex.

00:04:55 Speaker_02
I'm truly worried that we're on the verge of almost a societal-level collapse with what's happening to our food, what's happening to our health, what's happening with the potential nuclear war.

00:05:04 Speaker_02
And I think we have people starting to realize this, and they're trying to like lunge out for it, but we're being told it's alarmist, we're being told it's a conspiracy theory. And to me, that's what we've kind of landed on this health issue.

00:05:17 Speaker_02
Let's just bring it down to the facts of what's happening to kids. Let's bring it down to just like, forget the conspiracy theory, what even anyone saying this room, let's look what's happening to our food and looks what's happening to kids.

00:05:27 Speaker_02
Because by the stats we're seeing, there's something really dark happening. outside any conspiracy theory, just the statistics of what is happening to our health in this country and uniquely in America, it's dark.

00:05:37 Speaker_00
And so, Casey, if you could do the same, sort of explain how you got on this path. You started off with medical school and

00:05:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, so just like Callie, you know, we grew up in DC.

00:05:50 Speaker_01
I was, I loved biology, went to Stanford Medical School, went on to do surgical residency and head and neck surgery, climb the ladder, you know, do what every good medical student and resident is supposed to do, climb the academic ranks, publish papers, etc.

00:06:04 Speaker_01
And so I was heads down in that journey and

00:06:09 Speaker_01
Just like Callie's saying like with what I think is happening with the American people right now and really more globally like there was something inside of me that was Whispering and then speaking a little louder and then finally was a deafening call to me that like something is not Right, like I'm operating.

00:06:26 Speaker_01
I'm working eight hours a week. I'm operating, you know, two three four or five surgeries a day and And in some ways, I feel good about that. Maybe their sinusitis is a little better for a little while.

00:06:38 Speaker_01
But fundamentally, when you pop up for just a second, which they don't want you to do in health care. Everyone's working their tails off.

00:06:44 Speaker_01
But when you pop up for just a second and look around at what is happening to American health, children's health, health across the lifespan, as well as global health, it's a disaster. It's literally a disaster.

00:06:55 Speaker_01
And again, people will say that's alarmist. You know, in trying to understand, like, why don't I feel right about my work? I just started looking at the data in a different way, and I started to look at what was happening with health trends.

00:07:08 Speaker_01
And if you just kind of run through the list of what's happening, it's unbelievable. Like, we are getting destroyed, and it's very recent, and it's accelerating. The stats speak for themselves. You know, you know this very well.

00:07:19 Speaker_01
Seventy-four percent of Americans are overweight or obese. 50% now of American adults have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes. These were diseases where there was 1% of Americans in 1950 had type 2 diabetes.

00:07:30 Speaker_01
Now it's 50% of Americans have pre-diabetes or type 2 diabetes. Alzheimer's, dementia are going through the roof. Young adult dementias have increased like three times since 2012, so early onset dementias. We're seeing

00:07:44 Speaker_01
You know, this one in two Americans are expected to have cancer in their lifetime now. One in two. And young adult cancers are going up 79 percent in the last 10 years. We've got, of course, the autism rates are absolutely astronomical.

00:07:56 Speaker_01
One in 36 children has autism now in the United States. That was one in 150 in the year 2000. And in California, where I live, it's 1 in 22, 1 in 22 with a lifetime neurodevelopmental disorder. We've got infertility going up 1% per year.

00:08:12 Speaker_01
25% of men now under 40 have erectile dysfunction, a quarter of the country. This is fundamentally a metabolic disease. We've got 77% of young Americans can't serve in the military because of obesity or drug abuse. We've got autoimmune diseases.

00:08:27 Speaker_01
Some studies are saying they're going up 13% per year. It's just, it's really unbelievable. And I could go through so many more diseases.

00:08:36 Speaker_01
Of course, we've got heart disease, which is almost totally preventable as the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 800,000 people per year.

00:08:46 Speaker_01
And I think what, as I kind of just looked around, and again, these are just statistics, I started trying to put the pieces together. Why is this happening? Why are these all going up all at once?

00:08:58 Speaker_01
And that led me on what is now a seven, eight year journey, ultimately leaving the surgical world, putting down my scalpel forever.

00:09:05 Speaker_01
Because what I realized is that when you go to the science with a root cause perspective, you go back to PubMed with a slightly different perspective, not how do I treat the diseases once they emerge, but why are they happening?

00:09:15 Speaker_01
You see a very obvious, blaring answer, which is why we had to write a book about it, which is that it's all caused by metabolic dysfunction. a term that I never learned in medical school.

00:09:25 Speaker_01
I learned about metabolic syndrome and the different individual diseases that make it up. But there is a problem.

00:09:31 Speaker_01
There is a fundamental breaking of our core cellular biology that is caused by our diet and the world we're living in, the modern world we're living in today.

00:09:41 Speaker_01
that is crushing the very way that the human body and our human cells can transmit food energy to life energy, to cellular energy. And so our bodies are essentially, I mean, fundamentally, because metabolic health is how we make energy in the body,

00:09:59 Speaker_01
the way that our environment is now synergistically storing our metabolic health, and the science is very clear about this, it's basically like all of us are a little bit dead while we're alive. That's what metabolic dysfunction is.

00:10:11 Speaker_01
It's less energy in the body. We're underpowered. And that's very dark. Like when you step back and say, okay, This is clear from the research, and I never learned it. I didn't learn it at Stanford Medical School.

00:10:23 Speaker_01
I didn't learn it in my surgical residency. And we could fix it. We could fix it really quickly if we all popped up and woke up and looked at the data and put pieces together. But of course, we're not trained to connect dots.

00:10:37 Speaker_01
That's not our job in medicine. We are trained to follow algorithms and to be reactive. And so I think, you know, just to sort of kind of back up to the bigger picture of why we're so passionate about this.

00:10:53 Speaker_01
I think that the reason the Maha movement, the reason that people are so passionate about your podcast that talks about this so much, people know that something's not right. And people know that this health issue is the tip of the iceberg.

00:11:09 Speaker_01
of what's actually happening in our world today. It is a reflection. Our human health is simply a reflection of the destroyed ecosystem of our globe.

00:11:20 Speaker_01
The fact that we have forgotten that we're completely connected to nature and we're completely interdependent with nature, but the health crisis is simply a reflection of a destroyed ecosystem and humans have become

00:11:34 Speaker_01
so powerful and so technologically advanced and so connected in the recent decades that we now actually do have the power to both destroy the world and destroy our health.

00:11:44 Speaker_01
And the health is just the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger thing happening that is existential.

00:11:50 Speaker_01
And I think that's, we all want kids to be healthy, we all want humans to be healthy, but this is also, it's interconnected with all the systems and all the issues and that's,

00:12:00 Speaker_01
I think it's hard for people to totally articulate that, but that is what's happening. And we actually have a choice right now. And I do believe this is the moment that we need to decide, are we going to address these interdependent issues?

00:12:16 Speaker_01
And are we going to make the effort and be courageous enough to fight for this? Or are we going to let ourselves be told that there's nothing wrong? Nothing to see here While our health and the health of the planet is just absolutely being destroyed.

00:12:35 Speaker_00
That's what our mission is I think one of the most disturbing things about it is how few people are speaking out when the data is so obvious and then when you guys lay it out and when people like Brigham Bueller Andrew Huberman when any of these people that are like very focused on what the problems are lay it out and

00:12:54 Speaker_00
The data's all there, but yet we're not being told this anywhere other than the internet.

00:13:00 Speaker_00
It's only independent shows that don't rely on executives and networks where there's pharmaceutical drug companies advertising, or food companies, or any of these things.

00:13:11 Speaker_00
You don't hear any of this stuff, I mean, other than Fox News has allowed you guys on a few times, right? That's right. They're the only ones. Yeah, well, kudos to them. Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:20 Speaker_00
It's a human issue and the fact that people are willing to take money to not talk about one of the biggest problems that we have. I didn't even know about the childhood dementia thing or the young adult dementia thing.

00:13:31 Speaker_02
Type 2 diabetes used to be never seen. you know, among kids in their career. It used to be called early onset. They don't call it early onset anymore. As Casey said, 33% of young adults now have pre-diabetes.

00:13:43 Speaker_02
I mean, this pre-diabetes is not some isolated thing. It's the branch of the tree. It's cellular dysregulation. And every single disease is going down. Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes.

00:13:53 Speaker_02
If you don't have pre-diabetes or diabetes, you have a very diminished chance of having Alzheimer's.

00:13:57 Speaker_02
And, you know, so it makes total sense, but somebody from Harvard Medical School that specialized in Alzheimer's, their entire course load, their entire training, their entire focus is on accepting Alzheimer's, that it's there, that it's growing, and then figuring out marginal improvements for it.

00:14:12 Speaker_02
There's literally people that are the highest educated people in the world do not even understand what causes these diseases. They're just accepting that and making the cures for them, the marginal treatments.

00:14:23 Speaker_01
And I would just say also, if you do step back and look at everything holistically, one of the biggest problems with the healthcare industry right now is that it's so siloed. We have over 100 different medical and surgical subspecialties.

00:14:33 Speaker_01
And the business model of American healthcare right now is volume. It's how many people can you see. And so that's what you get paid for. You don't get paid for outcomes. You get paid for volume.

00:14:42 Speaker_01
That has incentivized a structure of health care where it's most profitable to actually be seen by as many specialists as humanly possible. And that's what the average American is dealing with.

00:14:50 Speaker_01
They go to the primary care doctor with a list of issues and they get eight, 10 referrals and they spend their life going through revolving doors of these different health care.

00:14:58 Speaker_01
Offices and not actually really feeling better and they feel disappointed and that's why I think people are frustrated So we've got all these doctors who are incentivized to really be head down in their Specialty lane and not actually step out and look at the big picture of how things are connected when in fact, it's all connected We don't see the body anymore and I'm just telling you this from like sheer experience of being in

00:15:22 Speaker_01
in medical school, like we are not trained to see the body as a unified system. We're trained to see it as 20, 30 different parts. And so no one's seen the forest for the trees, but like Kelly's saying, like, look at what's happening.

00:15:33 Speaker_01
Like you look at, look at what's happening with kids. We've got ADHD through the roof, autism through the roof. These are neurodevelopmental issues. Then you look at midlife. Well, Women and men are depressed.

00:15:43 Speaker_01
We have huge rates of mental illness 25% of women 25% of women now on our an SSRI I mean we're living in like the wealthiest safest country in human history and 25% of people are on SSRI.

00:15:55 Speaker_01
That's insane Then you go into menopause perimenopause that age group and it's sort of brain fog and then we have full-blown Alzheimer's going up

00:16:02 Speaker_01
So we've got all these neurodevelopmental issues and neurodegenerative issues sort of across the lifespan. And, you know, then you look at kind of the hormonal side of things. We've got girls going through puberty much earlier than they ever were.

00:16:15 Speaker_01
You know, we are the, of continents on earth, we are the earliest puberty rates right now. That's gone down on an average six years since 1900. Our puberty rates are way earlier. So girls are reaching sexual maturity at like age 10.

00:16:28 Speaker_01
or getting pubic hair. Then you've got, in midlife, you look at women, and infertility is the roof. We've got PCOS is affecting 26% of women. This is a metabolic fertility issue. It's the leading cause of infertility in the country.

00:16:40 Speaker_01
Then we look at older age, and like, menopausal symptoms are a disaster for women. This is why a book like The New Menopause is like the number one book in the country for a while, because women are desperate.

00:16:49 Speaker_01
So if you step back and look at all these different things, we've got these neuro issues throughout the lifetime all exploding. These hormonal issues throughout the lifetime all exploding.

00:16:58 Speaker_01
It's happening all over the place, but no one's stopping and asking, why? Like, why is this happening? Instead, we put ADHD in a bucket. We put depression and anxiety in a bucket. We put Alzheimer's in a bucket. And so that's really the problem.

00:17:11 Speaker_01
And I think, you know, when you think about some of these things, it's like, we're becoming infertile and we're losing our minds across the lifespan. Like, what the hell is happening?

00:17:21 Speaker_01
Like, that's what these diseases, these buckets of diseases represent. And I think, that's why I think it's, you know, we talked about like, it's a tip of the ice, health is a tip of the iceberg of fundamentally like, a planetary issue.

00:17:34 Speaker_01
But like, the planetary issue is the tip of the iceberg of what I think is really, really going on here, which is like, a spiritual issue. Like we, we, we are like not fighting for life in this world anymore.

00:17:47 Speaker_01
And I think that's more of a consciousness issue. You know, we talked about, why is no one covering this? It's like, I think people see it. I think in some way we have totally lost respect for the miraculousness of life.

00:18:02 Speaker_01
That's what our actions are reflecting. We know a lot. We have the technology, the money, and the resources to fix all of this, the planet and health, and we're not.

00:18:12 Speaker_01
And that's why I think there's something darker happening on like the consciousness level.

00:18:16 Speaker_01
And I think we could get our way out of this if we, like, I think it's gonna be hard to get our way out of this if we stick to like partisan politics and quibbling about individual policy ideas.

00:18:27 Speaker_01
I think it has to start with like, are we committed to life and to awe and to connecting with source and then listening and moving our way out of here or are we not?

00:18:40 Speaker_01
And if we choose not, which is what I think we're doing, I mean, I think there's huge light happening because that's why everyone's interested in this. That's why a lot of people are interested in this issue right now.

00:18:49 Speaker_01
But if we don't, I do think we're on the road to existential disaster because we're that powerful now. Step one is us deciding like what choice do we want to make in this lifetime?

00:19:04 Speaker_01
Do you want to do we want to believe that humans are that that life is a miracle?

00:19:09 Speaker_01
This universe is a miracle our bodies are miracles and we want to connect with God in this lifetime We want to build and respect these temples that are interconnected with the earth to do that Or do we not and like that's the choice we have right now And I think we have to take that very seriously and I think a lot of the political stuff that's happening maha It's all just a reflection of people

00:19:30 Speaker_01
Wanting to find a way to fight for life and not knowing how But but on the biggest level like that's what I think is kind of happening here and wanting life to make more sense than then just this constant state of fatigue and Constantly dealing with diseases.

00:19:47 Speaker_00
I want to talk about a couple specific things. He said and questions like why are girls going through? periods so much earlier

00:19:55 Speaker_01
Well, if you ask the New York Times, they'll write a headline that says, girls are going through puberty way earlier, and no one has any idea why.

00:20:05 Speaker_01
And of course, that's because there's not a double blind, placebo controlled, peer reviewed, you know, RCT in a journal that can exactly pinpoint the one reason why it's happening. But again, if we put the dots together,

00:20:18 Speaker_01
Which, of course, I'm going to be called not evidence-based for saying that. What's happening in our environment right now? So what drives early puberty is excess estrogens, right?

00:20:27 Speaker_01
We're pushing estrogens to basically spark that whole process of puberty. Well, look at our world. where are these extra, why would we be having extra estrogens? Well, let's look at our environment, the plastics.

00:20:41 Speaker_01
So we've got plastics, as you know, everywhere. I love you were talking about this, I think with Brigham, like you've got the the metal cups, and I love it. But like, there have been eight

00:20:51 Speaker_01
billion metric tons of plastic produced on planet Earth since about 1907 when plastic was commercialized.

00:20:59 Speaker_01
And the interesting thing about plastic is that when it breaks down, it acts like a xenoestrogen, an exogenous estrogen molecule that can literally bind to our estrogen receptors and act like estrogens.

00:21:08 Speaker_01
So now we've got, you know, we've got, you know this, like we've got plastic effing everywhere. It's literally in the air we're breathing, the nanoparticles, it's in our food, it's in our water, it's in everything.

00:21:20 Speaker_01
And we've now found plastics in every human organ, so of course that's affecting our bodies and our young girls' bodies. It's actually affecting our bodies in utero.

00:21:28 Speaker_01
There was a recent study that was done that showed 100% of placentas that were dissected had microplastics in them. So that's one. Number two, look at the pesticides.

00:21:38 Speaker_01
So there are pesticides, actually, where their molecular activity is to increase aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:21:48 Speaker_01
So atrazine, which is banned in Europe, but we spray 70 million pounds of it per year in the US, increases aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen. Illegal overseas. It is, we buy it from other countries.

00:22:05 Speaker_01
So China and Germany and other countries are selling us a chemical of which 70 million pounds are spread on our food, invisible and tasteless, which upregulates aromatase and converts testosterone to estrogen. So that's number two.

00:22:18 Speaker_01
And then you look at just the fat that we have on our bodies. So fat, and especially visceral fat, the metabolically active fat around our midline, that is a metabolically active organ that actually converts testosterone to estrogen.

00:22:32 Speaker_01
So we are living in this like wildly estrogenic environment that is created by humans. And it's all invisible. And again, it's like, how would you even do the study to show that? And yet, if you put the pieces together, it's very clear.

00:22:52 Speaker_01
Now, going to later life and talking about estrogens, we've got a huge percentage of American women on birth control pills. That's, of course, hopefully post-puberty. But we're putting women on exogenous estrogens

00:23:04 Speaker_01
for acne, for PCOS, for menstrual irregularity, sometimes, of course, for actual birth control. But it's like, it's very ubiquitous now in the environment. And it's like, when you kind of know this stuff, you're like,

00:23:19 Speaker_01
How are we allowing this to happen? And then of course it's affecting boys too, right? And so I kind of just think about this world we're living in where it's tons of estrogens. It's not like there's a bunch of exogenous testosterone, right?

00:23:31 Speaker_01
It's not like the plastics are also stimulating testosterone. So you've got these estrogens. barreled with sugar, and it's literally like it's in our kids' school lunches, there's sugar everywhere.

00:23:40 Speaker_01
Sugar is driving the visceral fat in kids, which is turning estrogen into testosterone. So it's like, we live in a world that's basically feminizing us, which for women, that's going to make puberty early.

00:23:49 Speaker_01
For men, it's going to feminize them, you know. And then we also have an entire food system that's driving visceral fat to make us more estrogen sort of rich. And what is this doing? I think in a lot of ways it's depleting American vigor, right?

00:24:04 Speaker_01
Like we're living in this estrogen stew that's hard to get away from.

00:24:09 Speaker_02
This is where, I think, my experience ties, is that on the foundational level why this is happening, it's because these studies are all funded by the chemical companies, by the food companies.

00:24:20 Speaker_02
Like, we've almost been, I think, misled by the experts when it comes to chronic conditions and when it comes to nutrition to take leaves of our common sense.

00:24:27 Speaker_02
Like, do we need to wait for a double-blind, placebo-controlled, human-randomized control study to know whether 0.5% of our brains being plastic is a good thing right now?

00:24:38 Speaker_02
Do we need to have a human randomized controlled 10-year study to know whether an herbicide like glyphosate that's being sprayed on almost all of our food and our children's food that people have to wear hazmat suits to spray and kills every single organism in sight?

00:24:53 Speaker_02
Do we need to wait for a study? Just as the medical system is siloed, we'd siloed all these questions and just taken leave of our common sense.

00:25:01 Speaker_02
Like, animals in the wild, wolves in the wild, are not getting chronic rates of obesity, diabetes, metabolic dysfunction.

00:25:07 Speaker_02
We're born with an innate sense of knowing what's good for us, of knowing that the sun is good, of knowing that steak is good, that broccoli is good. We can't overeat those things.

00:25:16 Speaker_02
The problem is we've been lied to by the professors at Harvard, at Stanford, at Tufts Nutrition School.

00:25:24 Speaker_02
that I believe are essentially, from my experience, PR for the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry that accepts all these things as a given. I mean, Tufts Nutrition School, 80% of their budget is from food companies.

00:25:35 Speaker_02
By our estimate, 50% of Stanford Medical School's budget somehow touches pharma. So just fundamentally, on the grassroots, micro level, these industries have co-opted our institution of trust. And you ask why we're the only people speaking out.

00:25:51 Speaker_02
because we've made it that evidence-based medicine really accepts all this disease growing and happening, and 95% of medical spending right now is on disease once it's happened, it's on managing conditions.

00:26:05 Speaker_02
And there's no higher levels of trust in our society than the NIH, than the FDA, than Harvard Med School, than Stanford Med School. So all of them are enforcing this. And then it's really just interesting where their emphasis is.

00:26:18 Speaker_02
I was just reading the other day that California, the medical board, is checking the licenses of doctors, putting them under review if they write five vaccine exception notes.

00:26:26 Speaker_02
You literally are on the verge of losing your license if you even go outside the orthodoxy on vaccines.

00:26:32 Speaker_02
But where is that level of emphasis, where is that level of focus, where is that level of rigor around metabolic health for kids, around nutrition for kids?

00:26:40 Speaker_02
I think it is a big deal of kids getting polio, but 50% of teens are obese or overweight right now. We have pre-diabetes skyrocketing. The medical system knows how to focus on something.

00:26:50 Speaker_02
They know how to tell Congress that there's no cost too high for something. When it comes to pharmaceutical interventions, we're bankrupting the country with interventions once people get sick.

00:26:58 Speaker_02
I truly believe, and this gets to the solutions and how I actually think this is an optimistic story, people waking up, why it's an existential kind of knife sedge we're on right now. We can change this really quick.

00:27:09 Speaker_02
The issue is that interest that profit from us being in fear, that just fundamentally is a statement of economic fact, profit from us being sick, profit from us being depressed, profit from us being infertile.

00:27:20 Speaker_02
They have co-opted our institutions of trust, and they've co-opted the clinical guidelines. Like, literally, when I was a junior employee, I helped Coke funnel money to the American Diabetes Association, okay?

00:27:31 Speaker_02
The American Diabetes Association says that if you have diabetes, you don't need to worry about your sugar intake. They say it's not tied to food, right?

00:27:38 Speaker_02
The American Academy of Pediatrics right now is saying that if your child is overweight, slightly overweight, overweight, 12 years old, Dietary infertility, don't wait. It says do not wait to see if dietary infertility works. Ozempic.

00:27:51 Speaker_02
It's now being studied on six years old. The American Psychiatry Association, right? The psychiatrist, the standard of care. If your child is a little sad, SSRI. Immediate intervention, right?

00:28:02 Speaker_02
SSRI rates have doubled among high schoolers in the past five years, right? If your child's a little fidgety, the standard of care, right?

00:28:09 Speaker_02
It's not asking whether they're in the sunlight, not asking if they're too sedentary, not asking if they're being force-fed ultra-processed food, which would make any animal crazy if we subject them to what kids are subjected to.

00:28:18 Speaker_02
No discussion of that. It's just not in the clinical guidelines. So these doctors, these good people like Casey, go into the medical system. We're this magnet for smart people. We get them in for the right reasons. There's easier ways to make money.

00:28:30 Speaker_02
But they come in and they get saddled with one skill, they get saddled with a bunch of debt, and then they're realizing this is a rigged system. Some people, a few people unfortunately, had the courage like Casey to drop out.

00:28:41 Speaker_02
I thought she was an idiot. I was like, what are you doing? We were kind of brainwashed to do the traditional system. I couldn't believe it. We didn't talk for a year.

00:28:48 Speaker_02
But it just is hard for people to understand that you can walk away from this, because our society stamps these credentials on people. What's better than being the dean of Stanford Med School?

00:28:59 Speaker_02
The dean of Stanford Med School right now was Casey's same specialty, had a neck surgery.

00:29:03 Speaker_02
And the way you rise up in medicine is you do a specialty, you focus on a couple inches of the face, and then he focused on a fellowship on an even narrower part of the body. That's how you rise up. You've siloed the situation.

00:29:14 Speaker_02
Anything that's not siloed is considered not scientific, is considered wacky. They've called us the woo-woo caucus, talking about these nutritionists.

00:29:24 Speaker_02
The medical system enforces this siloed view where diabetes, heart disease, depression, kidney disease, cancer, they're all separate things. If you have those conditions, you're seeing five separate doctors, they aren't speaking to each other.

00:29:35 Speaker_02
That's very profitable, very problematic. So the solution is truly just having the clinical guidelines of how diseases are assessed and how they're intervened changed to following the science, which is these are metabolic conditions. 90% of the U.S.

00:29:53 Speaker_02
medical budget is tied to managing preventable and reversible lifestyle conditions.

00:29:58 Speaker_02
If we had people on Medicaid, instead of jamming with the Stans, jamming them with Ozempic, jamming them with SSRIs, lower-income people were going bankrupt from Medicaid, $1.3 trillion, it's growing, it's a bigger part of the budget than the defense budget.

00:30:12 Speaker_02
If we literally just ask, how do we have that money to spur thriving, to incentivize exercise, to incentivize healthier food for these folks? we'd be a transformed country. It's literally that simple, but it takes that moral courage.

00:30:23 Speaker_02
It takes Americans actually saying, no, I am gonna go against the NIH. I am gonna ask questions. But of course we have violent, just reading, you know, back, what was it, 2022?

00:30:33 Speaker_02
Like every single public health official in America said you were like the enemy number one for talking about sunlight and talking about food and talking about healthy eating. COVID was a metabolic condition. COVID was a foodborne illness.

00:30:43 Speaker_02
Like if you were metabolically healthy, you did not die of COVID, like pretty demonstrably. And you were threat number one.

00:30:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, I know I think I think it Callie's getting into something also that I think is part of reason that why I mean there are a lot of fortunately there are a lot of doctors speaking out right now, and I have so much like Gratitude for all the other not only doctors, but like and P's deos chiropractors like nurse practitioners all these amazing people who are speaking up and getting a lot of shit for it But this is very tribal you know and I think that when you think about and it's hard like this is a primal instinct to not break out of the pact and to not Go against what?

00:31:21 Speaker_01
the norm is. So I think in a lot of ways that we're dealing with like here is going to come down to like how courageous are we willing to be to move humanity back and by humanity very much also the Earth's health because they're interconnected.

00:31:36 Speaker_01
They're one in the same. How courageous are we going to be to stand up for that? Are we going to let things slip through our fingers? And I think the tribe, when I was in medical school, like it's amazing

00:31:47 Speaker_01
because of the interest and the fact that Stanford got a $3 million grant from Pfizer while I was there to revamp the curriculum and the fact that the American Diabetes Association that makes clinical guidelines is getting millions of dollars from Coke and Cadbury and the American Diabetes Association is getting millions of dollars from Mead Johnson that makes formula and Abbott Nutrition that makes formula and vaccine companies that make flu vaccines.

00:32:10 Speaker_01
Like the fact that the money, I mean, 8,000 major conflicts of interest were just reported at the NIH with food and pharma.

00:32:16 Speaker_01
So at every level, the medical guidelines that if you step out of, you are at risk for litigation as a doctor, and the NIH, this thing that we all respect, tons of conflicts of interest, and the medical schools accepting money, the tribe that then you become a part of as a trainee is a tribe that only hears one thing.

00:32:39 Speaker_01
And so I have a lot of compassion for doctors because I was, I did go through medical school and not learn

00:32:44 Speaker_01
any of the things that I had to learn after to actually figure out how to help myself and others truly generate foundational cellular health to be healthy. I just look back at what I've had to learn since medical school. I learned about basically

00:33:02 Speaker_01
organ-specific physiology, pharmacology, and then in residency I learned how to do surgery, and then of course throughout the whole thing I learned how to bill.

00:33:10 Speaker_01
But that is ultimately, those are not the tools that actually generate foundational cellular health. You know, 80% of medical schools in the United States don't require a single nutrition course, not one minute of nutrition.

00:33:20 Speaker_01
And yet 90% of our health care costs are tied to diseases. The things that are torturing American lives are tied to food. And doctors, it's not a hammer in our toolbox.

00:33:29 Speaker_01
I didn't learn, you know, I didn't learn at Stanford Medical School that 95% of the people on the USDA Food Guidelines for America Committee had a conflict of interest with the food industry.

00:33:39 Speaker_01
I didn't learn that there were 8,000 conflicts of interest at the NIH. I didn't learn that there are 8 billion tons of plastic on planet Earth that are degrading into estrogen analogs.

00:33:50 Speaker_01
I did not learn that there are 6 billion pounds of pesticides sprayed on our global food supply every single year, most from China and Germany, and that these are literally tied very strongly to Alzheimer's, dementia, cancer, obesity, mitochondrial dysfunction, infertility.

00:34:08 Speaker_01
ADHD, liver dysfunction. I didn't learn that, you know, simply taking 7,000 steps per day can slash your risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer's, dementia, even gastric reflux by 40 to 60 percent.

00:34:23 Speaker_01
And the average American's walking 3,500 steps per day. Like, we're literally just not moving as a country. And if you just walk a little bit, 7,000 steps, which takes like 45 minutes. You slash your risk of every major, you know, chronic disease.

00:34:35 Speaker_01
I didn't learn that we need to be getting sunlight because circadian biology dictates our cellular health. Like we are diurnal animals that have biologic processes that happen during the day and other biologic processes that happen at night.

00:34:51 Speaker_01
And the way your body knows whether it's day or night is if you get photons hitting your retina and your skin cells. Pretty basic. Pretty foundational for human health. Didn't learn anything about it. Didn't learn anything about sunlight.

00:35:02 Speaker_01
Didn't learn anything about photons. Didn't learn anything about sleep. You know, we're sleeping 20% less on average than we were 100 years ago. And sleep is a huge risk factor.

00:35:12 Speaker_01
You can, in an experimental setting, take a young healthy person and subject them to sleep deprivation for five nights and they become pre-diabetic. Well, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic and type 2 diabetic, and we're not sleeping well.

00:35:23 Speaker_01
And I didn't learn not one minute on sleep. So all the things, and so many more, and of course, nothing about nutrition.

00:35:33 Speaker_01
You know, and Marty Makary talks about this, like, I certainly didn't learn that medical error and medication is the third leading cause of death in the United States.

00:35:41 Speaker_01
I learned that patient comes in, and I need to label their diagnosis and give them a pill. It's when I when I speak of the tribalism, it's like, I have so much compassion for doctors who feel stuck right now.

00:35:54 Speaker_01
They're stuck in a broken system, the tribe that they're a part of has taught them a certain set of things. There are huge trillions of dollars of interest to make the things that they learn a specific myopic lens. And

00:36:08 Speaker_01
putting together dots is risky, because if you step outside the guidelines, you're at risk for intense litigation and potentially ridicule. I mean, I'm called pseudoscientific alt-right, you know, woo-woo caucus all the time. And, and so it's scary.

00:36:24 Speaker_01
And I think that that fundamentally, this is again, why it comes down to like, this is actually more of a consciousness and spiritual issue, because it's like, we need to pray for courage.

00:36:33 Speaker_01
We need to sit down every morning and decide what we want for the future. What do we want? We're all players. We're all important. We all need to use our voices, being complicit, like what future do we want and what are we willing to do for it?

00:36:48 Speaker_01
And get our priorities straight. Is our priority like our house and our mortgage and our boat and our comfortable life that's killing us? Or is it to elevate, to be stewards of the future and of the planet and to make some harder choices?

00:37:04 Speaker_01
And I think one thing I would just say if there are doctors listening, I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but like this tribe on the other side, you know, that I think we're all in of like promoting health, like it's beautiful and people are really healthy and happy and it's not that hard and it's not that expensive and everyone is welcome here in this tribe of trying to move humanity towards more

00:37:29 Speaker_01
harmonious, you know, future. And, and everyone is welcome. It's bipartisan. It's really about like, like Brigham was saying, like, this is about team humanity, and team humanity, always by extension will be team planet because they're interconnected.

00:37:43 Speaker_01
And so I think we need to break out of that, that sort of like more our past human selves of tribalism and really realize we need to be brave, we need to be courageous, we need to fight for life.

00:37:55 Speaker_01
And it's pretty bright and wonderful when we start doing that.

00:38:00 Speaker_00
I don't think most people were aware of the problems in regards to the food system, in regards to pesticides, in regards to how people learn nutrition in medical school. I don't think they were really aware of that until about five or six years ago.

00:38:17 Speaker_00
I think it started to creep into the zeitgeist. I think before that people just put all their faith in doctors. And then I think COVID happened and people lost a lot of faith in the medical system. They lost a lot of faith in the NIH.

00:38:30 Speaker_00
They saw all the contradictory videos of Fauci saying, you know, you're not going to catch COVID and Rachel Maddow and all that shit. And you're like, oh my God, this is all a bought and paid for system to promote profit.

00:38:43 Speaker_02
Yeah, I think Jamal talked a little bit about this, but I think it's so important, because nobody realizes this, is I think a lot of people listening to us years ago, it's just like, this sounds conspiratorial.

00:38:54 Speaker_02
And it's just like, what actually happened? And there's a couple really important dates that happened, that are historical, that I think set this structure really intentionally. The first was 1909, the Flexner Report.

00:39:06 Speaker_02
So literally, John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that

00:39:10 Speaker_02
basically set the standard that's the standard today for medical education and it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic and holistic health and nutrition and anything about Interconnected to the body is pseudoscience.

00:39:22 Speaker_00
It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it and what year is this 1909 so They're still going by the recommendations of 1909 We still follow the Flexner Report.

00:39:35 Speaker_02
That is so crazy. But rescinding the Flexner Report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what we've learned since 1909 about the majesty of the interconnectedness of our body is a really good first start.

00:39:51 Speaker_02
Because we're binded under a law, just demonstrably, just like, again, not conspiratorial, John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote this report. Why?

00:39:59 Speaker_02
Because John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production and was the first investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health.

00:40:15 Speaker_02
There were some big issues in the health of the Wild West, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training.

00:40:23 Speaker_02
as a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker. And the medical schools that he created were basically a distribution system to him. Okay, so you get to World War II.

00:40:38 Speaker_02
Up until World War II, around that time, the 1950s, 1960s, I would argue almost any medical miracle you can think of or any listener can think of was created before that time.

00:40:49 Speaker_02
You know, it's all acute situations, emergency surgical procedures, sanitation procedures, antibiotics to make an infection not deadly.

00:40:57 Speaker_02
Almost every medical miracle we can think of was something that was going to kill you right away, infectious disease.

00:41:02 Speaker_02
And then you take the pill or take the treatment for a finite period of time and you stop it or do the surgery quickly and you're cured. Those are medical miracles. And we had a lot of good things happen up until World War II.

00:41:15 Speaker_02
Very intentionally, the medical industry saw the birth control pill in the late 1950s, 1960s. And the birth control pill was the first pill in world history that people took for longer than a couple weeks.

00:41:26 Speaker_02
It was the first pill ever that is like, oh, interesting. You can actually convince someone to take a pill for years, for almost most their life, recurring revenue.

00:41:34 Speaker_02
And there was a huge emphasis of the medical industry to take the trust engendered up until 1960. RFK talks about this. We didn't spend money on chronic disease management. All medicine was acute issues.

00:41:45 Speaker_02
Chronic disease, diabetes, obesity, that was outside the doctor's office. They saw that you could medicalize chronic conditions. Today, 90 to 95% of spending is on chronic conditions. So what do we do?

00:41:57 Speaker_02
In the 1970s, literally the Sackler family, their grandkids and kids did the opioids, their forebears created Valium. And 30% of women in the United States in the 1970s were on Valium. Time Magazine, Valium Nation, Mommy's Little Helper.

00:42:14 Speaker_02
So we started creating all these psychiatric conditions, we started medicalizing heart disease, we started medicalizing all these type 2 diabetes, started creating academic research totally funded by the pharmaceutical industry, saying that type 2 diabetes isn't reversible, that it's basically genetic, heart disease, all these things, and started pilling them.

00:42:33 Speaker_02
Then what happened to food? Chronic disease wasn't that big of a deal in the 1970s and 1980s. You look at the graph, you look at the graph of all chronic conditions, there's just a sharp turn in the 1980s.

00:42:46 Speaker_02
It's literally almost to the year of the Surgeon General report saying smoking wasn't great. So the second that report came out, Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds were two of the largest companies in the world.

00:42:58 Speaker_02
It wasn't like Microsoft and Google on the top companies list, it was like cigarette companies. You know, dopamine is a really good thing to sell, which the tech companies do now. And they used their cash piles.

00:43:09 Speaker_02
And by 1990, the three largest M&A deals in American history, in world history, were cigarette companies buying food companies. So you had Nabisco bought by R.J. Reynolds. You had Kraft and U.S. Food buy.

00:43:19 Speaker_02
And you see those graphs of all the food companies owned by a couple companies? That was the cigarette companies. And they did two things very, very intentionally.

00:43:29 Speaker_02
They took over the institutions of trust to say ultra-processed food was healthy, and then they took their scientists and rigged the food itself to make it more addictive. Not to kill kids, but to make it more addictive.

00:43:40 Speaker_02
So you had that literal food pyramid, which said ultra-processed food is great, low fat, carbs, base the pyramid. That was constructed literally by the cigarette industry to promote their addictive products.

00:43:53 Speaker_02
And this weaponization of food, as I call it, it's not just like this conspiracy. Literally, the cigarette industry Those two companies, Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds, were the two largest food producers in the United States.

00:44:04 Speaker_02
Like 50% of American food were created by cigarette companies in the 1990s. And they have gotten us addicted and weaponized this food, and all chronic conditions have just shot up.

00:44:13 Speaker_02
It's because that ultra-processed foods, literally, by tobacco industry scientists, hijacks our evolutionary biology. Again, you can't overeat grass-fed steak, but these food, with scientists much smarter than any of us, That's what they're doing.

00:44:27 Speaker_02
They're shutting off our society signals. The byproduct of this cheap, addictive food, which we don't even have research for yet, is that it's sprayed with all these chemicals.

00:44:36 Speaker_02
It's sprayed with 10,000 chemicals that are allowed in the United States, when only 400 are allowed in Europe. All these chemicals to make the food addictive, to make the food cheap, to do the monocropping.

00:44:45 Speaker_02
And that food is absolutely, and we don't need to wait for the research on this, these chemicals, these neurotoxins, are destroying our cells, destroying our microbiome in ways we don't fully understand.

00:44:54 Speaker_02
So I just want to make clear to everyone, this has happened very intentionally. And it can be undone pretty quickly, too. But we have to realize this isn't a conspiracy. It's true corruption that happened deliberately.

00:45:09 Speaker_01
I would just add a few more dates. I think one thing about the research, we're one of the only countries in the world where the burden of proof for harm, we allow these chemicals to just enter our food system.

00:45:21 Speaker_01
We have 10,000 chemicals in our food system. Europe, only 400, because they have to show that it's safe before they use it. We're allowed to use it, and then only if there's issues that crop up do people have to do research. So there's this ridiculous,

00:45:40 Speaker_01
generally recognizes safe designation, which is essentially a company self-assesses whether the chemical that they are creating is generally recognized as safe. No one's overseeing it. And Brigham talks about this, like compassion for the FDA.

00:45:54 Speaker_01
They're overwhelmed. There's a lot of stuff to do. It's kind of like a hoarder's house. Where do we even start? I don't necessarily know if I buy that. I think that it's pretty bad and bought off that we have all these chemicals.

00:46:04 Speaker_01
But they basically just have to self-designate if it's generally recognized as safe and then it can go into our food system.

00:46:09 Speaker_01
One thing that I find really interesting is like, that I really reflect on a lot is like, what is the difference between a food chemical and a drug? They're all just synthetic molecules that are made in factories, in labs by scientists.

00:46:22 Speaker_01
Do you know what the difference is? Intended use. So basically, if the intended use is for food, you can synthesize almost anything you want and put it in food.

00:46:31 Speaker_01
We are being mass drugged and poisoned in our food system with 10,000 virtually unregulated chemicals, which have bought off papers saying that they are safe.

00:46:40 Speaker_01
I mean, you look at what happened with all the Monsanto litigation about non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. They had to release

00:46:47 Speaker_01
this whole thing called the Monsanto papers, they were declassified, where they ghost-wrote scientific papers saying that glyphosate is safe.

00:46:56 Speaker_01
So there's all this corruption in there where basically we have 10,000 unregulated chemicals in our food system and we're getting sick as hell, obviously.

00:47:03 Speaker_01
And then you've got the evidence-based people saying, well, we need to have a 10-year longitudinal study to show that glyphosate is causing X, Y, Z disease. And it's like, obviously that's not the right approach. Because first of all,

00:47:17 Speaker_01
It is the synergistic combination of all the toxins that are now in our environment that are leading to all these pleiotropic health issues. That's very hard to study.

00:47:30 Speaker_01
So we have to get our heads out of our ass and use our common sense and realize what's going on and not wait 10 years with these, you know, NIH funded studies that are going to be corrupted. And, you know, I think

00:47:43 Speaker_01
So that's just one thing about the food chemicals. I just wanted to add to your point, Cal, some other dates. You look at the processed food emergence. Processed food really didn't start taking off until these mergers.

00:47:55 Speaker_01
There was a little bit of a start of it. Ultra-processed foods did not exist before World War II. We, and you know, we needed to have shelf stable food for soldiers and things like that, that we could ship.

00:48:05 Speaker_01
And so there were maybe some good intentions there, but then it got, there was an opportunity there that got seen.

00:48:11 Speaker_01
And we can also, you know, weaponize the feminist movement against, you know, Oh, being in the kitchen, you're a slave, you know, you don't, that your values outside the home, you need to climb the corporate ladder here, have this convenience food that we basically made for soldiers.

00:48:25 Speaker_01
And we're going to tell you that this is actually your liberation. So, of course, we got people not cooking. Families aren't eating together anymore. Like, you know, kids are eating 67% of children's calories now are ultra-processed foods.

00:48:39 Speaker_01
These means foods that come from a factory made by food scientists. Not just processed, ultra-processed. The highest form of processing, 67% of calories. Then you go to

00:48:52 Speaker_01
the 1970s, and we have the advent of high fructose corn syrup, which as Callie talks about, this preceded some of the mergers, but high fructose corn syrup is a weapon of mass destruction that basically food scientists used an understanding about hibernating animals, like bears, who, fructose is one of the only types of calories where instead of making you feel satiated, it makes you more hungry, and this is evolutionarily, and we knew this.

00:49:17 Speaker_01
In the fall when animals are preparing for hibernation and they start eating fructose rich berries, they need to put on a ton of fat for winter.

00:49:27 Speaker_01
And so there's a feed forward mechanism with fructose where it actually gets the bears to be hungry and even violent. to outcompete other animals, to get as many berries as possible in a short period of time, to lay 3D print fat for winter.

00:49:40 Speaker_01
So you have the scientists understanding this and say, hey, we can make liquid fructose 1,000 times more potent than the fructose you'd find in berries, same molecule, but in higher concentration. And we can add it to everything.

00:49:52 Speaker_01
We can add it to salad dressing. We're going to add it to ketchup. We're going to add it to children's school lunches. We're going to add it Obviously to sodas and we're gonna make people insatiable.

00:50:00 Speaker_01
We're gonna make their bodies and their brains think that they're Preparing for winter that's never coming and that and there has been research that shows that high-fructose corn syrup is associated with violence ADHD and kids all of these different things just last thing I'll mention flash-forward 1986 I think another very important date, which is the date when

00:50:18 Speaker_01
The litigation went through that said we couldn't sue vaccine manufacturers.

00:50:22 Speaker_01
And the vaccine safety act, that's a very important date in the whole history because it is one of the first times where we were able to pass legislation through Congress that said that pharmaceutical companies could not be sued for wrongdoing.

00:50:34 Speaker_01
And that still is present today. They basically put together a little paltry little fund that people could apply to get no-fault reimbursements for vaccine harm, but you cannot sue the company.

00:50:46 Speaker_01
So you start to get companies being legally immune from wrongdoing, which is then accelerated, and they're now starting to try and push things like that for pesticides as well. So that's just some of the history of why we are where we are today.

00:50:58 Speaker_01
It's not rocket science. This has all been very institutionalized and structured and it's the last 50 years. Like we can undo all of this with leadership. And so that's just a little bit of the picture of how we are where we are today.

00:51:12 Speaker_00
Can I just say one thing about the fructose corn syrup? I'm so glad you brought that up because I didn't know that there was a unique way that it makes it more addictive and kills your satiety. Or increases it, or kills it rather.

00:51:24 Speaker_00
Because I'd always thought that sugar was sugar. And this is one of the arguments that a lot of people that are poo-pooing all this stuff, like, oh this is nonsense, sugar is sugar.

00:51:34 Speaker_00
Like there's no difference between the sugar in high fructose corn syrup versus the sugar in an apple.

00:51:38 Speaker_01
No, it's really interesting. There's two amazing books on this. Richard Johnson from University of Colorado wrote Nature Wants Us to be Fat, and then David Perlmutter wrote Drop Acid.

00:51:49 Speaker_01
Both books are about a molecule called uric acid, which is unique to fructose metabolism.

00:51:55 Speaker_01
So when fructose is metabolized in the body, not like glucose, it creates uric acid, which creates oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction in the brain and the body.

00:52:05 Speaker_01
That if you have mitochondrial dysfunction, you're not gonna be able to process sugars to energy You know mitochondria powerhouse of the cell so you break the mitochondria with the excess fructose Overloading the mitochondria with uric acid and then what happens you can't turn sugars to energy.

00:52:20 Speaker_01
So what do you do? You turn sugars to fat so you start 3d finching Pratt you start 3d printing fat because you break the mitochondria with excess fructose and

00:52:29 Speaker_01
And on top of that the mitochondrial dysfunction oxidative stress when happening the brain is what may inspire the violence and the ADHD and all that stuff to make the bears Manic so they get as much berries as possible.

00:52:38 Speaker_01
This was having every kid in every classroom in America now And so that's kind of some of the biology very simply about about what's happening with fructose So the Apple is probably a bad example, but like cane sugar this cane sugar fructose based well, it's

00:52:55 Speaker_01
generally is going to have sucrose, which is going to have some amount of glucose and fructose.

00:52:59 Speaker_01
But this is the thing about fruit, is that we have 40 trillion cells, and we have the ability to clear uric acid, and we have the ability to process fructose in a physiologic amount.

00:53:12 Speaker_01
We're never going to have the uric acid increasing and overloading the mitochondria if we're eating an apple. It's when you're eating 20, 30 times the fructose that an apple has, and you're literally pouring it down.

00:53:25 Speaker_01
that all of a sudden imagine you get this huge rise in uric acid in the body and other things that are happening and that's when it overwhelms. So it's a bit of that dose makes the poison because our body has the ability to excrete toxins.

00:53:39 Speaker_01
Our body has the ability to deal with some heavy metals. Our body has the ability to probably clear some level of glyphosate. But we can't clear all of it all the time, 24 hours a day, in a hundred times the quantity of all these things together.

00:53:52 Speaker_01
And the research and the evidence-based thing and this cult of the science, they love to ignore that. The idea of synergistic effects, of this

00:54:02 Speaker_01
of this overwhelming breaking of our cellular resources is just conveniently forgotten because we study things in isolation. That's literally the definition of how a double-blind placebo-controlled study happens.

00:54:15 Speaker_01
It's one variable, you know, and one thing that you're testing. You can't do it on food. That doesn't make sense. We live in a toxic stew.

00:54:24 Speaker_02
The only answer of double-blind placebo-controlled studies, which every guest comes on is just like, that's just the gold standard. Everyone just accepts that that's what you need.

00:54:31 Speaker_02
A double-blind placebo-controlled study, the only answer is a pill, like, essentially. You can't test psychedelics on that way. You can't test food. You can't test exercise. You can't blind those things. So anything that actually...

00:54:44 Speaker_02
recognizes the unison and interconnectivity of why we're getting sick, can't be studied through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.

00:54:52 Speaker_02
If you actually have the FDA that's basically created, you saw this with the recent MDMA decision, it's basically rigged that the only thing that can be approved through the top way we study things and approve drugs is a synthetic pill.

00:55:06 Speaker_02
That's the only thing that it can basically lead to through a double-blind placebo-controlled study.

00:55:10 Speaker_01
It's like with vaccines, it's like, yeah, I bet that one vaccine probably isn't causing autism. But what about the 20 that they're getting before 18 months? We don't look at it in synergistic. And so that's a big problem.

00:55:23 Speaker_01
And this is where the cult of the science, and I say the science specifically because science is beautiful, using the scientific method and using that way of inquiry into the natural world is a beautiful art, but weaponizing

00:55:39 Speaker_01
papers that are often bought for or corrupted. And the leaders of some of our key medical journals have actually even said that 50% of scientific research that published ends up being wrong. So it's bought for, corrupted, or wrong. We rely on this.

00:55:56 Speaker_01
And one interesting trend that we're seeing in our world is that if we do choose to put dots together or use our intuition, our God-given intuition anything other than this particular way of examining things, you are dangerous. You are dangerous.

00:56:16 Speaker_01
And I think that that's something we need to really question, you know, I think, especially as a woman, like, and I'm thinking about having kids soon, I'm like, thinking about like, wow, like,

00:56:25 Speaker_01
I have the ability in my body to build a human, 3D print a human, pull in a soul to that human. I don't need a peer-reviewed study or a textbook to tell me how to do that.

00:56:38 Speaker_01
Our body and our intuition and our minds and the subtle things happening inside us are important. They are incredible. We have now been told that you can't trust it and you are dangerous if you do that.

00:56:50 Speaker_01
And I think that's one of the reasons why I think parents are very frustrated right now is because

00:56:54 Speaker_01
parenting, I'm not a parent yet, but you know, Callie is, but like, you know, when we're being told now that parents are the enemy for using their own judgment about their families and kids, like, I think that's probably it's, it's deeply frustrating to people.

00:57:07 Speaker_01
And that's basically what we're being asked to do. So Yeah.

00:57:13 Speaker_00
I want to talk about Alzheimer's. That was the other thing that I wanted to talk about when we talked about early puberty. You mentioned the escalating risks of Alzheimer's. When did Alzheimer's become a thing?

00:57:25 Speaker_00
Because I was reading this article that was saying that it was before the advent of seed oils. You very, very, very rarely saw it, if at all.

00:57:34 Speaker_02
No, it's been exploding like every single other chronic condition. I'll just quickly go to ties to Casey's point she just made.

00:57:40 Speaker_02
This year in 2024 is the highest rates in American history of Alzheimer's, cancer, autoimmune conditions, heart disease, diabetes.

00:57:49 Speaker_02
cancer, kidney disease, autism, every single chronic disease you can think of is at an all-time high, growing at an increasing rate as we spend more money to treat those conditions.

00:57:59 Speaker_02
So I think what one point we're trying to make is that, you know, all the NIH, all the FDA, it's all on accepting that trend as a given. It's totally washed their hands of it. And how do we find marginal pills to make this a little bit better?

00:58:14 Speaker_02
Not asking why. And that question about Alzheimer's, the point we're trying to make, is that when it comes to chronic conditions, which Alzheimer's is, you have to really not ask the Alzheimer's question.

00:58:24 Speaker_02
You have to ask why that's one branch on this tree. Obesity, right? This tree. And we talk about, and I think Casey has this amazing framework, you can literally look at five biomarkers, the biomarkers of metabolic dysfunction.

00:58:37 Speaker_02
HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, blood pressure, and your waistline. And I'm not joking, I'm not being hyperbolic. If we fired every single researcher and canceled every single grant in the U.S.

00:58:49 Speaker_02
government for all chronic disease research and all nutrition research and created all policy to maximize those five biomarkers in America, you by definition don't have type 2 diabetes. you almost have a 0% chance of getting heart disease.

00:59:02 Speaker_02
You have very close to 0% chance of getting Alzheimer's. You are not obese by definition. Literally, you go down every single chronic condition that is torturing American life.

00:59:12 Speaker_02
If you're diabetic, you're four times more likely to be depressed or suicidal, because there are cells in our head, and diabetes is cellular dysregulation. So literally, on the research and the science thing,

00:59:25 Speaker_02
I think there's great heroes who've been getting into the weeds on the research, but chronic disease is interconnected to basic lifestyle factors. I think this is a political issue, honestly.

00:59:36 Speaker_02
Every American needs to ask, is this an incremental issue where we need slightly better pharmaceutical interventions and slightly better research?

00:59:43 Speaker_02
Or is this a radical shift of understanding how our bodies are interconnected and understanding that that needs to be a shift in medicine and, frankly, how we view the environment?

00:59:51 Speaker_02
That is a question that we actually think is relatively urgent and relatively existential. Modern society is amazing, but as Casey said, This is dark right now.

01:00:00 Speaker_02
If you believe what Casey's saying about these statistics about chronic disease, and you actually look at the math that we're growing two times with healthcare spitting the rate of GDP, it's the largest and fastest growing industry in the country.

01:00:12 Speaker_02
The fastest growing industry in the United States is not AI. It's not tech. It's healthcare. And as it grows, we get sicker, fatter, more depressed, more infertile. It is going to bankrupt the country, and it's not slowing down.

01:00:24 Speaker_02
So if you actually believe this, believe we need a new paradigm, is it about getting better research, or is it about actually saying the research is wrong, this whole paradigm of seeing chronic disease in silos is wrong?

01:00:33 Speaker_02
So I'm sure you can talk more about Alzheimer's, but it's interconnected.

01:00:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, no, I think the point about incrementalism versus radical is the question we need to be asking ourselves, like we're not, yeah.

01:00:42 Speaker_01
And so in terms of Alzheimer's, so I think something really interesting framing is that the brain, you know, it's only 2% of our body weight, but it uses 20% of our body's energy.

01:00:53 Speaker_01
And there's been this theory with Alzheimer's of like, oh, it's the plaques in the brain. It's the tau and the tangles and the beta amyloid and all these things.

01:01:02 Speaker_01
And so we thought, OK, well, if we can get rid of those with a drug, like maybe that it'll improve. But no Alzheimer's drugs really work meaningfully.

01:01:10 Speaker_01
And more recently, there's been this understanding of like, okay, metabolic dysfunction is definitely going up. We know metabolic syndrome and diabetes are going up. And the brain uses 20% of the body's energy.

01:01:20 Speaker_01
And something that's happening in the body like diabetes is also happening in the brain. There's been this interesting, Chris Palmer talks about this in such an amazing way in his book, Brain Energy.

01:01:28 Speaker_01
But like, we've somehow decided to separate the brain from the body as if they're different things when in fact, they're all just made of cells. They're all just made of cells that do the same things.

01:01:37 Speaker_01
They need to do metabolism to keep the cell working. So we've got this organ that uses 20% of our energy, and we've got 50% of Americans with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, which is fundamentally a metabolic issue.

01:01:49 Speaker_01
And of course, the brain's basically underpowered. It's not getting the energy it needs, and that's going to express itself as dementia. So it's been increasing. in parallel with everything that's happening with our increasing diabetes rates.

01:02:00 Speaker_01
And then the early onset dementia and Alzheimer's disease, that has tripled since 2013. So younger people, and that makes sense though, we've got 30% of teens now with prediabetes. That was like 0% in the past.

01:02:14 Speaker_01
You didn't have kids with the adult onset diabetes in the past. You've got now 30% of teens with prediabetes. You've got middle-aged people now, 50% with prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. Of course, that's also creating an energetic deficit.

01:02:29 Speaker_01
So this neurometabolic, neuroenergetic theory of Alzheimer's, maybe with these cells crying out for help, maybe some of these plaques that we're seeing are actually a protective mechanism.

01:02:41 Speaker_01
The brain actually laying down almost like protective shielding. It's a response to an underlying metabolic

01:02:48 Speaker_01
Issue as opposed to the problem itself, but of course in our paradigm We're like we just got to get it rid of that symptom of the problem when in fact actually if we could Unencumber the brain to be able to make energy properly make good energy properly.

01:03:01 Speaker_01
That's why our book is called good energy They would actually be able to energy to heal to heal itself and to have the power to do its work, which is cognitive thinking I was gonna say an amazing book about Alzheimer's is

01:03:15 Speaker_01
that just hasn't gotten as much attention as I think it should is Dale Bredesen's book, The End of Alzheimer's, because he talks about when you really look at the research, there are about 36 different biomarkers and factors.

01:03:26 Speaker_01
I think he calls them like the 36 holes in the roof of what creates, like if it's raining and you plug one hole, your house is still going to be filled with water. You have to plug all 36 holes to prevent or reverse

01:03:39 Speaker_01
Alzheimer's disease, and of course all of these are related in some way to metabolic health, but it's things like your vitamin D levels, your insulin levels, the amount of movement you're getting, vitamin D, insulin, B12, other things like that.

01:03:52 Speaker_01
These things that we know are part and parcel with metabolic health.

01:03:56 Speaker_01
And there was an amazing Lancet paper from a couple years ago that showed that if we just got on top of some of the basic modifiable factors of our metabolic health, we could slash Alzheimer's rates from happening.

01:04:07 Speaker_01
So, you know, I think, yeah, fundamentally, it's one more branch on the tree that is rooted in this metabolic dysfunction in our body, which is fundamentally rooted in three processes that uniquely really hurt the brain, which is oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and chronic inflammation.

01:04:23 Speaker_01
These are the three hallmarks of metabolic dysfunction.

01:04:26 Speaker_01
and the brain is so sensitive and such a complex, high processing power organ that these core cellular disturbances that make up metabolic dysfunction, which are caused by our environment and cannot really be addressed with drugs, mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress, chronic inflammation, they're showing up so prominently in the brain.

01:04:47 Speaker_02
I'll just say, like, there's kind of just a question with all we're hearing about these diseases is like, is the reason Alzheimer's is skyrocketing because we don't have enough research and don't have enough drugs?

01:04:57 Speaker_02
Is the reason obesity rates are skyrocketing among kids because we don't have enough drugs or not enough research? That's the argument that's being given to us. We literally being told.

01:05:05 Speaker_02
After the lessons of COVID, which the COVID lockdowns and what the pharmaceutical industry did with their co-option of our government with COVID was the most significant public policy mistake in American history, at least since World War II.

01:05:16 Speaker_02
In modern times, I think we can all agree on. We are still saying, and it's just people, I think, because we trust the medical system still so much, we are literally thinking societally that

01:05:29 Speaker_02
that the fact that there's an obesity crisis among six-year-olds is a drug deficiency issue. Like, it's a dark, I think, blind spot in our culture right now.

01:05:39 Speaker_00
The reason why I brought up Alzheimer's, there's a couple reasons. One, the amyloid plaque research, wasn't that proven to be flawed, like deeply, and maybe even corrupt? And then there was another, there's something that came out very recently.

01:05:54 Speaker_00
See if you can find this, Jamie. I think Jay Bhattacharya might have tweeted it.

01:05:58 Speaker_01
You were talking about this with Max Lugavere.

01:06:00 Speaker_00
Yeah. Oh, Max Lugavere. He tweeted it. But Dr. Joe's great. Yeah. So there was rampant corruption. Oh, yeah.

01:06:08 Speaker_01
Well, this is coming out every day.

01:06:10 Speaker_01
We're hearing about a new premier researcher who's published hundreds of papers in their field who literally are ... Western blots are one of these things you see in scientific papers that basically show you protein levels.

01:06:24 Speaker_01
copied and pasted Western blots in like papers across their career, like just made up data that then has served as foundational dogma for future research. So you think about the ripple effect.

01:06:37 Speaker_02
SSRIs too.

01:06:38 Speaker_01
Yeah. And so this, but this is, it really gets back to the core problem that's above all the problems, which is an incentive problem. Like it's a simple economic incentive problem that's basically causing all these problems.

01:06:54 Speaker_01
And I think it's that what we're striving for in this country is ultimately economic growth and value. That is what we care about. And so, you know, in each industry, you see people fighting for that, including at the NIH, including researchers.

01:07:13 Speaker_01
We're all motivated by this carrot that is destroying us. And yeah, it's very, very dark because, yeah,

01:07:22 Speaker_00
Jamie, see if we can find that Max Lugavere. Twitter wasn't working. Twitter's down to Russians. Max Lugavere posted it on Instagram as well.

01:07:37 Speaker_00
Over 100 NIH-funded Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research papers contain completely made-up data according to new allegations, billions in funding, and years of research now in serious doubt. Yeah.

01:07:49 Speaker_02
So with Max, actually, with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, with Marty McCary, Chris Palmer, a number of voices. We're engaging members of Congress. We're talking, you know, to helping whatever we can with RFK and Trump's leadership on this.

01:08:04 Speaker_02
But I had a somewhat out of body experience that kind of hits on what you're getting at. I was sitting across from the member of Congress.

01:08:14 Speaker_02
and I think it's the exact same issue on obesity, who introduced this Treat and Reduce Obesity Act, has 150 co-sponsors, and it's to jam government-funded Ozempics. So it starts with Medicare.

01:08:28 Speaker_02
Eighty percent of people on Medicare, old people, are obese or overweight. So the second this bill is signed, are you

01:08:51 Speaker_02
The second this bill is signed, $1,600 per patient per month, taxpayer money, which is why Nova Nordics is the ninth most valuable company in the world right now, this Danish company expecting 90% of their profits from the United States on expectation of this bill's passage.

01:09:07 Speaker_02
So we're sitting across from him. And I bring these things up, and I bring up a simple question of,

01:09:13 Speaker_02
Why is this one-size-fits-all jamming Ozempic into the average American's arm instead of opening up flexibility to potentially explore regenerative food or exercise or incentivizing those things?

01:09:25 Speaker_02
It's not even fully anti-drug, but why is this a... What clinician said this is the cure? This is the one cure? Because it's not opening up any money for food or exercise or any other modality that could actually cure the root cause of obesity.

01:09:38 Speaker_02
And he looked at me fully, fully serious and said, I'd never thought of that.

01:09:43 Speaker_02
And I told them that it's being pushed on kids and that there's an aggressive effort where Dr. Fatima Cody Stanford, the top obesity researcher at Harvard, was funded significantly by Novo Nordics and millions of dollars in research grants and went on 60 Minutes where the top funder of 60 Minutes is pharmaceutical companies and said obesity is a brain disease and a genetic.

01:10:01 Speaker_02
She said that. Top Harvard researcher. And she said it needs to be aggressively intervened for kids. And I said, there's open season on kids. The guy who introduced the bill, he said, that's not true. I'm going to put in the bill that kids can't use.

01:10:14 Speaker_02
I'm like, you'd be going against the FDA guidance on that. You can't do that. I go, you understand, based on the JP Morgan estimates, where they literally presented the estimates of increasing obesity rates at the JP Morgan conference in San Francisco.

01:10:27 Speaker_02
And all the investors clapped like seals, standing ovation, standing ovation, as they presented a chart on rising obesity rates, showing that as Ozempic increases in prescription rates, obesity in the United States will increase.

01:10:39 Speaker_02
Unpack that one for me. They show that graph and everyone claps. Because it's a lifetime drug. Because it's a crash diet. It's liquid anorexia. It makes you not want to eat. Crash diets don't work, right?

01:10:48 Speaker_02
And of course, you know, more than 50% of the people that even have insurance funding for it go off of it within six months because it's the highest rate of side effects of any mass drug prescribed in American history. But he didn't know all that.

01:11:00 Speaker_02
And he looked at me in the eye, the person who introduced this bill that is going to be one of the most expensive bills in American history, the market cap of the ninth most valuable company, the most valuable company in Europe.

01:11:10 Speaker_02
They passed LVMH, the fashion company. The most valuable company in Europe rests on this bill. This is the guy that essentially wrote it. He said, no, no, no, it's a short-term solve. Look at me right in the eye.

01:11:21 Speaker_02
I'm like, no, it literally says there's metabolic issues and it warns somebody to going off the drug. It says you have to take it for life. That's what he did not know that it wasn't like the corruption is you have that Brad Winstrup.

01:11:34 Speaker_02
If somebody wants to do something, if we want to change the world, email members of Congress, email Brad Winstrup, call his office, and say, we think before we jab six-year-olds with Ozempic, we should fix our food system.

01:11:46 Speaker_02
This thought literally didn't occur to him. So what's happening with this corruption, what's happening with obesity, with Alzheimer's,

01:11:54 Speaker_02
is the corruption is like it doesn't even get to people even understanding that the the boiling frog it's just so it's just obviously we're just going to find a drug not ask why people are getting alzheimer's obviously we're just going to jam six-year-olds with ozempic and not ask why people are getting obese and they and then you know i literally get talking points in the room as he starts thinking about it oh it's hard dietary interventions are hard it's like what's happening now is hard

01:12:13 Speaker_02
Like going to a playground with my two-year-old son and seeing every kid clearly having issues, clearly dealing with obesity, like six years old, you know, seeing processed food all over the playground, like that, like what's happening now, poisoning ourselves en masse is pretty hard.

01:12:26 Speaker_02
So there are simple ways to do this. If Dr. Fauci in 2020 said COVID has strong metabolic links and we need to harden up our immune system, it's a problem. We're dying three times at a higher rate than the Japanese per capita.

01:12:37 Speaker_02
That's 16% of all COVID deaths are in the U.S. and we're like 4% of the population. Like, this is a warning sign for our immune system.

01:12:44 Speaker_02
We need to shift the healthcare budget to getting fit, to incentivizing exercise, to fixing and talking to Will Harris and other regenerative farmers and consulting them on how to transform our food system, seeing that the medical system has co-opted what drugs are and what medicine is.

01:13:01 Speaker_02
Like, it's nothing short of a moral blind spot that food and exercise aren't seen truly as drugs. that they aren't seen as interventions from the $4.5 trillion we spend on medical systems. They do that in Europe.

01:13:11 Speaker_02
The Italians are three times less obese and diabetic than us. I don't think the Italians are more vigorous. I don't think Americans are lazier than Italians.

01:13:20 Speaker_02
There's something systemic happening where they spend three times less per capita on health care and two times more per capita on food.

01:13:26 Speaker_01
And they're living eight years longer.

01:13:28 Speaker_02
Eight years longer.

01:13:28 Speaker_00
Well, and everybody notices it when you go over there and eat.

01:13:31 Speaker_01
You feel good eat that pizza. You know, it's like the only place in the world I can eat gluten. Yeah, it doesn't destroy my gut Yeah, it's crazy.

01:13:38 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's it's crazy. And it's weird that all these things that you say are so clear and they make so much sense Yeah, it just doesn't hurt being ignored. Well, just it speaks to capture

01:13:48 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:13:49 Speaker_02
Industry capture. I met with Nancy Pelosi two weeks ago. Looked her in the eyes because, you know, we've been helping RFK, helping Trump. And we should talk about that.

01:13:59 Speaker_02
I think there's a really, really important societal dynamic happening with that unison. But I'm preparing as much as I can to foster this bipartisan conversation. I can tell you everyone in the room, right, like is horrified by the statistics.

01:14:13 Speaker_02
But every time, their staffers are slithering behind them. And the healthcare staffers in Congress are waiting for their next job with the pharma industry or the insurance industry, and they really drive the place and make the bills.

01:14:24 Speaker_02
But a real problem with the corruption is these people making policies, literally chairs of healthcare committees.

01:14:31 Speaker_02
The simple ideas you're talking about, and we're trying to express on metabolic health, on this simplicity, really, of why we're getting sick, It's not being like corruption is like leading them to deny it. It's like they just do not understand.

01:14:43 Speaker_02
Like these meetings we're doing with and this hearing we did with Max and Brigham and others, Julia Michaels and so many great people. It literally was giving these ideas to these members of Congress for the first time.

01:14:55 Speaker_02
There'll be a lot more on this, but it's so simple, but literally letting your lawmakers know. I hear two things again and again from meeting with over 40 members of Congress.

01:15:04 Speaker_02
It's like, I don't understand this, I don't know this, and my phone's not ringing off the hook. If I go against PhRMA, they're getting all the old people to call and say, don't kill me.

01:15:11 Speaker_02
Like, to me, this issue, why this issue is becoming so resonant is because we're all feeling it, and I think it's actually we're hitting on the most important issue in the country. I think it's why everyone's flocking to books on this issue.

01:15:22 Speaker_02
Why podcasts? Like, why your podcast is the number one podcast? I mean, I consider you, I've learned more about metabolic health and healthcare listening to guests on your show than I think Casey's probably learned at Stanford Med School.

01:15:34 Speaker_02
So it's like people left to their own devices are flocking to this, and we need to channel We need to make a statement with our politics. This is unfortunately a political issue.

01:15:43 Speaker_00
So you were one of the people that helped sort of broker the deal with RFK and Trump and bring the two of those together. Tell me how that got started. Tell me how that worked out.

01:15:53 Speaker_02
Yeah, I mean, when I think about that story, I literally think about 2021, our mom abruptly dying of pancreatic cancer.

01:15:59 Speaker_02
She was taking a hike, got a pain in her stomach, got a text the next day after getting a scan saying she has stage four pancreatic cancer. We rushed to her side. She died 12 days later, just totally surprisingly.

01:16:09 Speaker_02
And Casey and I, on her grave site, literally hugged each other and said, we want to write a book and we want to

01:16:15 Speaker_02
make this and evangelize this inspired by you and others we want to evangelize this and add the chorus to prevent what's happening because so many americans are on this pharmaceutical treadmill and then the cancer is random it's not random like all these warning signs that were missed with my mom her pre-diabetes her high cholesterol her high blood pressure those were pilled not seen as gifts to get to the root cause and then she was

01:16:36 Speaker_02
chopped down by cancer. This is happening to everyone. So we want to evangelize that. And we've been on the path as best we can with companies and evangelizing. And through these amazing podcasts like Tucker, we got connected with people.

01:16:48 Speaker_02
So got to know RFK, got to know Democrats, and got to know the Trump campaign. And in the past year, I will say this, the Trump campaign has been extremely interested in the policy of why kids are getting so sick.

01:17:02 Speaker_02
And if you go back a year ago, President Trump actually at rallies to loud applause has been talking very similar points to RFK. So we got to know RFK.

01:17:11 Speaker_02
Sitting watching the first assassination attempt, I had like a spiritual, what I can call it kind of out of body experience. And I felt the need to call Robert. I think what he has done is historic.

01:17:23 Speaker_02
The fact that he was getting up to 20% of the vote, highlighting this issue, tapping in, I think, to this consciousness and tapping into this stream that you're tapping into, I think it really showed something.

01:17:35 Speaker_02
I had this vision for a year actually it sounds very woo-woo But I I was in a sweat tent with him in Austin at a campaign event six months before and I just I just had this strong vision of of him standing with Trump and how what RFK represents is actually what Trump represents and actually what almost every Americans feeling which is this frustration and this rigged

01:17:57 Speaker_02
thing and this thing that doesn't quite feel right that you can't quite put your finger on. And it was so clear to me that how RFK talks about health personifies this overall kind of institutional capture.

01:18:10 Speaker_02
It makes it real for people in a really visceral way because it's clearly impacting their kids.

01:18:15 Speaker_02
That was all the context pick up the phone called him and just urged him You know as a supporter as a lowly supporter to consider Maybe this is the time as President Trump put his fist up as you know with all this momentum There's rare moments in in history where the deck can change and I really felt and he felt like this could be a realignment of American politics because that that moment felt very heavy after the assassination and

01:18:37 Speaker_02
So we went back and forth and he asked to you know, he's like, let me let me talk to him So I worked with Tucker And we connected them that night and here's the key point.

01:18:46 Speaker_02
I want to make from my small bandage point here They had weeks of conversations And there was not a discussion of polling. There was not a discussion of the horse race and how this would impact the race.

01:19:00 Speaker_02
These were tear field conversations about why kids are getting so diabetic, about why we have such obese children in the United States, about why we have a fertility crisis.

01:19:10 Speaker_02
This was a true connection of these two men and a true deep bond, which I think you're seeing out there on the campaign trail, that this transcends politics. And Trump wants this to be a generational issue for him. And I just want to say something.

01:19:24 Speaker_02
I think we're at a big moment here. We're debating trivia. I think the two most existential issues are nuclear war or what's happening to our health. And whatever you think, and I used to be a Never Trumper.

01:19:39 Speaker_02
Watching him care about this issue, watching what's happening with the RFK, watching what's happening of how that's resonating with voters, seeing from my small vantage point inside, there is tremendous connection of these two men and moral clarity of seeing what's happening.

01:19:57 Speaker_02
And my question is this, and to anyone kind of considering voting in this election, Trump is going to say stupid shit. He is Trump. We know who he is. There's two important questions to ask.

01:20:09 Speaker_02
Who sees this corruption and institutional capture that's going to destroy our country, I think, to an existential level, and who is willing to suffer that blowback?

01:20:18 Speaker_02
Who is willing to go up against these military-industrial complex, the healthcare-industrial complex, the education-industrial complex that's making us a non-competitive Like they are ready. Who is going to appoint? This is a question I have.

01:20:32 Speaker_02
Who is who do we believe is going to appoint people like RFK, people like Elon Musk to stir stuff up? Who is going to do that? Like that to me is the foundational question.

01:20:43 Speaker_02
And I do consider this the most important election of my lifetime, watching these two men, because it is so genuine. And there is like a genuine desire to truly transform, to see our broken corruption and institutions for what it is.

01:21:00 Speaker_02
And really, truly, I think, prevent nuclear war and dramatically reverse our health crisis. Trump has said that his one big mistake last time was personnel, was that the pharma and the ag slithered in and gave him the list of names.

01:21:16 Speaker_02
Everybody should ask, do you think RFK is going to have an influence on those names based on what Trump has said? And I think he is, and I think people like Elon are going to be involved.

01:21:24 Speaker_02
I think there's this coalition of people that are coming together and Trump's going to put in power and listen to. And this is a bipartisan issue. And no matter what happens, we have to solve this issue.

01:21:36 Speaker_02
But I will say this so clearly with the most conviction I can. We will

01:21:42 Speaker_02
be on the verge, I think, of a health population collapse, societally destabilizing event unless true executive leadership sees this corruption and this issue for what it is and says we need a radical transformation in how we see agriculture and how we see health, our two largest industries.

01:21:59 Speaker_02
I think we have to have that, and every single member of Congress I meet with, including Democrats, say that in order for this issue to get done, we need a president to make this the priority to talk, because that gives us air cover, and there could be transformational change if a president does that.

01:22:12 Speaker_02
So that's what I've seen from being in this, and I can tell you President Trump has kept every promise to RFK and deeply cares about this issue.

01:22:21 Speaker_00
It also seems like if this isn't done now, they will take steps to make sure it can never be done in the future.

01:22:27 Speaker_02
Look what they're saying about free speech.

01:22:30 Speaker_00
Yeah.

01:22:30 Speaker_02
Right now. You know, you probably covered this. It's just absolutely wild. The free speech comes from the rigging of the scientific research.

01:22:40 Speaker_02
Bill Gates said this week that we need immediate AI to scour the Internet and take any vaccine misinformation out of the Internet automatically on any format, any private web page. This is wild.

01:22:54 Speaker_02
And he said, because the second that virus spreads in people's minds, the damage is done. So his number one use case for AI is to scour the Internet and remove any vaccine misinformation from the Internet.

01:23:06 Speaker_02
That is because the largest and fastest growing industry in the country has completely co-opted the most trusted parse the country. There's no higher level than the NIH, than Harvard Med School. They know that.

01:23:20 Speaker_02
Harvard Med School is a subsidiary of pharma, just demonstrably. The FDA is 75% funded by pharma. This isn't a conspiracy. And there's a revolving door.

01:23:31 Speaker_02
And you've got people like Scott Gottlieb, I think the people like Trump's talking about, still thinking he's going to have power. This person that goes straight to Pfizer, And you've got him and people like this, and I've met with many of them.

01:23:46 Speaker_02
Oh, this book is amazing. Good Energy is amazing. The food, of course, we've got to get kids healthier. But we've got to work with pharma. We've got to work with all the stakeholders, insurance companies. We've got to be incremental here.

01:24:00 Speaker_02
There's a war right now between incrementalists and radical change. We are living in a great time, but we have existential threats.

01:24:08 Speaker_02
And the question before everyone in this very important election is, do we need more incrementality, or do we need a fundamental rethink of some of our major systems? I really think that's what's before us.

01:24:20 Speaker_02
And as Casey said, I think we're in a good period of history right now, certainly. But we're facing, I think, more existential threats that I really think we don't fully appreciate.

01:24:33 Speaker_00
It's such a unique time, and it seems like without a person that's a total outsider, like Trump, that's being so attacked.

01:24:42 Speaker_00
It's not just that they disagree with him, they attack him, it's that they do it in unison, they do it so coordinated that you realize there is a machine behind this, and that they repeat the same talking points over and over.

01:24:54 Speaker_00
It's like they're given a script. that there's no repercussions for lies.

01:25:00 Speaker_00
With the Russiagate stuff, with all the various different things that have been concocted to try to take him out, no one gets in trouble, and the same people are still disseminating the news.

01:25:11 Speaker_00
And more people, I think, are aware of that than ever before, and more people are aware of this institutional capture.

01:25:18 Speaker_01
And I think this is why the freedom of speech issue is actually so important and so existential, because the thing that gives me hope right now, like, this all sounds dark, but we're both extremely optimistic.

01:25:29 Speaker_01
But if the ability to talk about these issues is taken away, that is when I would lose hope, right? Because the fact that, you know, independent media is the most listened to form of media on planet Earth right now. That is a good thing.

01:25:45 Speaker_01
We can still discuss ideas and the light can connect across the globe. But when you start severing that ability, like there's a beautiful force happening right now. I think we all see it. Like people are waking up.

01:25:58 Speaker_01
People understand that there's a problem. Like we see this every day and, you know, Twitter has its issues and whatnot, but like people are talking and connecting from around the world to try and

01:26:09 Speaker_01
figure out how to solve these issues that we all know on some level in the quietness of our heart are a really big, big deal and that the time is now. And if that gets taken away, I worry about what's going to happen.

01:26:25 Speaker_00
Well, and it is getting taken away in some formats. There was something, I believe I retweeted it, see if you can find it, about YouTube taking down a podcast for medical misinformation. And there was none.

01:26:38 Speaker_00
And this is without Twitter, without X, without Elon buying it, and this person being able to post it. I think it was Schellenberger. Was it Schellenberger? Can you see my Twitter feed? Is it up there? Well, this is the... It's below the... Hold on.

01:27:01 Speaker_00
We need people like Dr. J in power. Maybe I didn't tweet it.

01:27:11 Speaker_01
Should we rethink the Constitution? Is the First Amendment a major roadblock? These are questions.

01:27:17 Speaker_02
I can talk a little. This game is known. It may be obvious, but I don't think people realize this.

01:27:25 Speaker_02
The reason there's such a fight against you is because it's this 100-year change of information sources where the biggest industries in the country can no longer dictate what the information sources are.

01:27:37 Speaker_02
When I worked for Pharma, the advertising budget, all this stuff you hear about, like how much they spend on cable news, and 50% of TV news spending is Pharma, it wasn't to impact consumers, it was to impact the news itself.

01:27:56 Speaker_02
Like the spend on news shows came out of DC lobbying offices, not the New York, like Madison Avenue advertising offices. It was like, we're gonna, put our budget was in the lobbying budget. It was like, we're going to pay off all the news.

01:28:11 Speaker_02
So we have a direct line. So if you're paying 50% and a huge funder of all the all the tech companies, ads, their ad companies, then you've got a direct line. And then you've got the Harvard study.

01:28:26 Speaker_02
So when you have the Harvard study that's fully funded by pharma or the food industry, like the food industry, processed foods, spends 13 times more on foundational nutrition research than the NIH, but even the NIH is really conflicted, saying that Lucky Charms are healthier than beef, literally.

01:28:44 Speaker_02
you've got those studies. So what is this person at the news station or YouTube to do when you've got the Harvard study? They've realized that you can weaponize this thing. So that's how it's connected.

01:28:54 Speaker_02
And then time and time and time again, I hear from members of Congress on major committees, they're just, that's the corruption. That's where the corruption happens. They got the lobbyists just throwing studies. You know, if you put

01:29:06 Speaker_02
restrictions on childhood nutrition, on federally funded school lunch programs, which is the top source, one of them, of calories for young kids. If you take sugary cereal like Lucky Charms off that, you're going against the science.

01:29:17 Speaker_02
You're going against the NIH. You can't be asking for farm fresh eggs. Farm fresh eggs are down here. Lucky Charms are up here. It's funny, these studies, but that's what they do with them.

01:29:26 Speaker_02
And then I hear time and time again from these members of Congress who are good people, but it's like, Cal, I'm a military guy, or I come from business. I don't understand this stuff. You just got to defer. So that's how the corruption works.

01:29:38 Speaker_02
And that's that that's how the research connects to PR.

01:29:41 Speaker_00
Yeah No, I know I saved it so give me one second and I'll pull it up off on my phone because I definitely saved it if I didn't retweet it but it's

01:29:57 Speaker_00
I think one of the things that we keep highlighting that I think is very important is that most people are not even really aware of this.

01:30:04 Speaker_00
This is very new to most people in the zeitgeist of the common person, the common person who's just trusted their physician and trusted the medical establishment.

01:30:14 Speaker_00
I don't think, I think this is a, it requires a real shift in consciousness of people and a real understanding of what's going on.

01:30:21 Speaker_02
But there's pings of that consciousness happening. That's why I think the leadership is so damn important here, Joe.

01:30:28 Speaker_02
It's like when this stuff is under the shadows and when the FDA is able to lobby to fund the organization that's supposed to regulate it, when the USDA is lobbying, excuse me, when food companies are lobbying to have the USDA not have any conflicts of interest, when these things, there's not a tension on them,

01:30:45 Speaker_02
And Americans aren't being explained this mass corruption that's compromising all of our scientific guidelines and standard of care where $4.5 trillion in incentives flows to. But I would push back.

01:30:57 Speaker_02
I don't think it's fully formed in people's heads, but I think people are clamoring to put these pieces together. Yes. I think RFK standing on the stage with Trump and them grasping hands and saying, make America healthy.

01:31:14 Speaker_02
I think it was one of the biggest political realignments and important moments in American history. Kennedy endorsing Trump. I think a lot of us feel it. I think you see it on the ground. This Kennedy-Trump thing is powerful.

01:31:28 Speaker_02
The media denigrates it, but Kennedy is explaining this.

01:31:31 Speaker_00
The media denigrates it, but I don't think people have any faith in the media anymore. Even the New York Times, which used to be the number one, I don't think people have faith in the media anymore.

01:31:42 Speaker_02
They're clamoring to this message. Watching RFK and Trump at a rally, it's the most electric political experience I've ever seen. It was the loudest applause I've ever heard. There's something visceral.

01:31:53 Speaker_02
When RFK starts talking about the CDC needing Dr. Jay Bhattacharya on there and the FDA,

01:31:58 Speaker_02
You know and the NIH and starts naming those agencies and starts saying we're gonna get to the bottom of why our food for our kids is Poison and we're going to reverse childhood chronic disease by taking on this corruption when they say that it's electric.

01:32:11 Speaker_02
It's like a release It's like a release. So it's everything everyone's been listening to you at reading these books trying to put the pieces together I think RFK is more effectively putting the pieces together and

01:32:20 Speaker_02
And I think people ask, oh, President Trump, he eats unhealthy. No, no. President Trump's the foundation of his existence is taking on corruption. Like that is why he's on the political stage.

01:32:31 Speaker_02
That is why he's been the defining for better for whatever you think of in the defining political figure of our generation, like because he's tapped into this frustration of voters that something isn't quite right.

01:32:41 Speaker_02
but in that they're good people, and if we can get this corruption out of the way, that he's staying in the way of this corruption, and we can unleash the American people if we get this corruption out of the way. That thesis is correct.

01:32:51 Speaker_02
What he has tapped into is the defining political trend of our lifetimes, this populist uprising that's happening throughout all the world. He has tapped into that in a very powerful way.

01:33:01 Speaker_02
He's talked for a long time about pharmaceutical corruption and these issues. He understands it innately. But RFK, really, I think better than anyone alive, is sharpening this issue. And he's arguing, as we're trying to argue, it's very simple.

01:33:16 Speaker_02
It's actually not that complicated. You just need to put, truly, as a first step, put Dr. J. Bashari at the CDC.

01:33:23 Speaker_02
Put someone who's not trying to get their next job at pharma, who's aligned with this fundamental agenda at the NIH, at the FDA, at the HHS. And then have people like Elon. Elon's saying he wants to run government efficiency.

01:33:36 Speaker_02
He wants to look at how government's performing. HHS is the largest and the most expensive department in all of government. What if someone like Elon, people like Bill Ackman, who are joining this cause,

01:33:49 Speaker_02
What if they were given an executive order to analyze the HHS against the goal of promoting health and thriving and disease reversal for the American people? You have the smartest people in the world doing that. I mean, you'd have radical change.

01:34:05 Speaker_02
If you can learn what the pharma has known for the past 30 years, that co-opting our institutions of trust, everything else is downstream of that, there's nothing upstream in culture or trust of those agencies, because where do we go about that?

01:34:18 Speaker_02
So they dictate everything. They dictate the nutrition guidelines. They dictate our agriculture incentives. They dictate our standard of care that's jamming a drug down 40% of teens' throats right now.

01:34:30 Speaker_02
if you can not co-opt them like pharma's doing, but get them back to unbiased science. The NIH right now, 95% of NIH grants they're spending is on marginal pharmaceutical R&D. It's literally an outsourced R&D lab for pharma.

01:34:42 Speaker_02
Every person listening would expect the NIH job is to do foundational research. That's literally what everyone's saying. It's not. Not at all.

01:34:49 Speaker_02
If you, just with a swipe of a pen in leadership, just demand, day one, that the NIH goes back to population-wide fearless studies about why we're getting sick. That's what we need. We literally need the NIH only asking that question.

01:35:02 Speaker_02
Why are we getting sick? What variables are tied to chronic disease?

01:35:06 Speaker_00
Have you anticipated what kind of backlash and how this would be handled?

01:35:11 Speaker_00
Like, what kind of backlash would you get from these captured institutions if this did happen, if Trump and RFK get into office and they start implementing these policies and changing things and bringing new people at the helm?

01:35:26 Speaker_02
There's one candidate. They're shooting it.

01:35:28 Speaker_00
Yeah.

01:35:29 Speaker_02
There's one candidate. Executive leadership is existential to this issue. Like, I have a company, I'm meeting with members of both sides. This doesn't change without executive leadership. It's just factual statement. I hate that health is political.

01:35:47 Speaker_02
It's not. It's bipartisan. It is political in the next 40 days. This will not change if this issue resonates.

01:35:55 Speaker_02
And if we believe that what's happening to our soil and to our bodies and to our kids' health is really the most important issue, it doesn't change without strong moral clarity and executive leadership, even if the person says stupid shit and tweets weird stuff.

01:36:10 Speaker_00
Right, but even if they do get in office, this is my point, what happens? Like, have you thought about this? Like, the amount of money we're talking about these people losing.

01:36:20 Speaker_02
Every single member of Congress. Let me make this super clear. I want everyone to understand this. It's powerful, these interests, but we all know this. I think we can feel this too. They're not monolithic. It's a paper tiger. We can overcome this.

01:36:38 Speaker_02
It's because there's not focus and marshalling of the American people and light on these things. Every single member of Congress tells me, they said the only thing that beats money is grassroots focus, is Americans focusing on the issue.

01:36:52 Speaker_02
The most powerful issue in American politics actually aren't money issues, they're grassroots issues. Guns, abortion, those aren't money issues. Those are issues that people are focused on and vote on.

01:37:02 Speaker_02
So what Trump and RFK are starting to do is really tie the foundation of Trump's candidacy, in my opinion, which is really taking the corruption out of the swamp. And there's other issues.

01:37:13 Speaker_02
Of course, we've got to get the border rights, you know, defense, economic agenda. But health care is a glaring example of that.

01:37:19 Speaker_02
where there's been focus on the campaign and a promise of focus, you know, and real political, I think, validity in focusing on that because people are getting really fired up about this. I can't express this enough.

01:37:30 Speaker_02
Watch the rallies with RFK and Trump. There's real visceral political focus on that.

01:37:35 Speaker_02
So if that anger, right, if that same energy stream that's leading people to listen to your podcast and leading people to flock to Elon and leading, you know, leading to, I think people, frankly, to go back to church.

01:37:46 Speaker_02
I mean, millennials are flocking back to religion. I like, Like there's all these streams in society where people are kind of like trying to check if leadership can channel that you know These are paper tigers.

01:37:55 Speaker_02
These are paper tigers, but you need the president to say f you To these industries that are profiting from kids being sick and tell congress i'm giving you air cover Tell those lobbies to get the hell out of your office.

01:38:08 Speaker_02
That's the message from the president with that leadership Now are these powerful interests? Is this the biggest industries in the country? Right. Are these the most powerful industries in the country?

01:38:17 Speaker_02
Yes, but again, whatever Trump is tweeting, whatever he's saying, you have to just ask yourself, and this comes from a person who used to be an ever-Trumper, who has the courage to stand up to these interests? Who has the courage?

01:38:31 Speaker_02
Does anyone think that Trump is afraid to put RFK, put Elon, put brave doctors in charge? to put people that are distrustful of the military-industrial complex in charge of our military. Does anyone think he's not going to do that?

01:38:47 Speaker_02
Does anyone think he's going to really stand in their way and not take some blowback from these industries? He said this very clearly.

01:38:52 Speaker_02
The biggest mistake of his last presidency was not trusting his gut, was listening to the lists of people from the industry.

01:39:01 Speaker_00
Well, it's also, I would imagine, and if I talked to him, my number one question would be, what happens when you get in there? What is that experience like? Because no one really knows until you're in office.

01:39:13 Speaker_00
They don't tell you how it's going to go down if you don't make it. They don't reveal all that. So what is that experience like, and how can you prepare for it without actually being elected president?

01:39:25 Speaker_02
So for my opinion what for my small vantage points what happens is you get bombarded with complexity Right the the what the industries do. Oh, you can't touch agriculture incentives, even though they're bright broken.

01:39:37 Speaker_02
That's going to hurt farmers You can't you know, oh health care. Oh the pbms i'm hearing this all the time the pbms and the insurance companies all these players

01:39:44 Speaker_02
You have to have clarity of vision and an agenda which President Trump and RFK are talking about that's super, super clear. It's like, we are going to get pharma funding out of the FDA.

01:39:56 Speaker_02
We are going to reorient with an executive order the goal of the NIH back to foundational research. We are going to disallow people that make nutrition guidelines for kids to take money from Kellogg's.

01:40:07 Speaker_02
Like, there's 30 things that you can do, and I think what President Trump has talked about, and what he says is like, let's stay high level. We're not going to have nuclear war, right?

01:40:17 Speaker_02
We're going to aggressively call out and push on major policy objectives to take the corruption out of the healthcare institutions, to attack the incentive that every single healthcare institution in America today makes more money when a child is sicker for a longer period of time, just demonstrably.

01:40:32 Speaker_02
Insurance companies, they make 15% by law, profit margin, they want premiums to grow, that's what's happening. Pharma companies make money on interventions when people are sicker for longer periods of time.

01:40:42 Speaker_02
Hospitals, as Casey talks about, makes money on interventions, does not make money when people are healthy. Medical schools make money from the sick care system. Just a clear-eyed set of objectives, I think it can fit on a small piece of paper.

01:40:55 Speaker_02
What you do is you have a lobbyist come in and say it's complex. Like, there's just simple questions. Why are we paying 10 times more for drugs than Germany?

01:41:03 Speaker_02
Why in the United States is 10 times more expensive to buy Ozempic than in Germany or Scandinavia? Like, there's these simple, simple things. You can do that. Trump's talked about it. Biden's talked about it. It's bipartisan.

01:41:14 Speaker_02
It's not free market that we're paying 10 times more than Germans. We're the biggest buyer of drugs in the country. Why are we subsidizing the rest of the world and subsidizing the pharmaceutical industrial complex? That could be one stroke of a pen.

01:41:24 Speaker_02
One stroke of a pen to reset and say, no price setting, you can charge whatever you want, but we're not going to pay more than the Germans. Charge whatever you want. We have every right to do that. That's one stroke of a pen.

01:41:35 Speaker_02
And then you get the blowback. You get, oh, you're going to hurt innovation. It's not our job to fund innovation for Europe. Charge us the same price. You're going to lead to drug shortages. Well, F you. Charge a higher price.

01:41:47 Speaker_02
But it's literally just clear focus. And I think Trump, he's talking about this, he's seen it.

01:41:55 Speaker_02
So to anyone, and I've gone through this process, we know who he is, but we also know that he's going to put good people in charge and not stand in their way and wants to be bold.

01:42:08 Speaker_00
And there is the benefit of him having already been in and understanding all the red tape and all the problems and all the influences and all the stuff that he couldn't correct in four years.

01:42:20 Speaker_01
I also just can't imagine like if what's Callie's talking about from the top is happening and putting voice to power to some of these things that people feel and people know if this is actually right now it is silenced at the top.

01:42:32 Speaker_01
We went through four years of COVID without a single health care leader at an agency ever telling us to get on top of our metabolic health and how to do that ever. And yet people were talking about it.

01:42:43 Speaker_01
So if we are able to give voice at the highest level to these concepts, I just wonder also what that ripple effect through our country is going to be like when people are part of that tribe and can actually speak about it without the fear of being called, you know,

01:42:59 Speaker_01
just totally alt-right, you know, crazy person for even talking about these things.

01:43:04 Speaker_01
That grassroots momentum that I think could happen would be incredibly powerful where we can all come together to work on this because as opposed to it being adversarial with the top, it's connected to what the top is talking about.

01:43:18 Speaker_01
We so believe, you know, parents don't want their kids getting sick. We don't want to be sick. We don't want to see our parents dying of Alzheimer's and cancer.

01:43:29 Speaker_01
and all of these diseases, there is this pervasive thread that Americans are lazy and they don't want to be healthy. I was indoctrinated with that message as a medical student and as a surgical resident. It's not true. People want to be healthy.

01:43:43 Speaker_01
There's a huge system rigged against them. You know, we've got people don't want to be feeding their kids this dead trash food that comes in a package, but it is what is cheaper because of corrupt policy at the top with the farm bills.

01:43:54 Speaker_01
You know, people don't want their kids to be eating this plastic meat in school. But, you know, Lunchables and Kraft Heinz and the USDA forged a deal that's now putting Lunchables in schools that serve seven billion meals to children per year.

01:44:08 Speaker_01
You know, and doctors then don't get a single minute of nutrition education in 80 percent of medical schools. You just imagine like, we've got people who want to be healthy, we truly believe that Americans want to be healthy.

01:44:20 Speaker_01
And for the first time in many years, this could be an opportunity for that to be aligned with the country's vision and priority as opposed to adversarial to it. And I think that that, you know, Jason Karp in the Senate hearing,

01:44:32 Speaker_01
who's one of the co-founders of Who Kitchen, talked about if 5% of revenue of some of these big companies like Kellogg's and General Mills drops because people are no longer willing to buy these food because there's a real movement about it, they will change.

01:44:45 Speaker_01
They will re-innovate towards what people actually want. But right now, it's controversial to even push. You exercise, you're called, you're far right. You have to have so much strength to be healthy in this country.

01:45:00 Speaker_01
And not only that, you have to have financial resources and strength, strength of courage. And so he says, yeah, if people change their buying decisions, which I think will be easier to do culturally,

01:45:14 Speaker_01
if we are talking about these things on the highest level, then it's going to change. I think also, I think a potential light-filled vision of what could happen is that some of these companies might adapt to consumer demand and do better processes.

01:45:29 Speaker_01
We need to get back to American agriculture being regenerative agriculture. We're totally screwed if we don't do that. We cannot continue with this mass poisoning of our farmland.

01:45:39 Speaker_01
Not only is it horrible for our farmers, who are dying at astronomical rates from chronic disease, but it's terrible for our children and our bodies.

01:45:46 Speaker_01
And if people start understanding that, because people like RFK are in the leadership positions, and that's becoming part of the zeitgeist, it will change the way people buy and what they're willing to tolerate.

01:45:58 Speaker_01
But right now, the norm, because of corrupt incentives in a rig system, is to be unhealthy.

01:46:04 Speaker_01
And I think when people get permission to push back against that, we could see an incredibly bright, beautiful future in a very short period of time in America. We believe that's possible.

01:46:14 Speaker_00
I believe it's possible, too, and I think it's incredibly cynical and unpatriotic to think that all Americans are lazy. It's crazy.

01:46:22 Speaker_00
We operate on momentum, and if you've lived your life eating bad food and being sedentary, you're going to continue to do so unless something jolts you out of that.

01:46:30 Speaker_00
And if there's a moment in the zeitgeist where a good percentage of people start shifting in a very particular direction, taking care of themselves, and the people around them see that and see the benefits and see these people improve,

01:46:42 Speaker_00
And then they become inspired to do it. It could have a huge effect on the population. There's a lot of Americans that are not lazy. People want to live. People want to thrive. They want to be energetic. They want to have health.

01:46:57 Speaker_00
And they want to be successful in life. And one of the best ways to be successful in life is to have more energy to pursue the things you're interested in. And the only way you do that is if your body's healthy.

01:47:08 Speaker_02
Many listeners are battling surely chronic conditions, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, etc. I don't think any listener in their head wants to be sick. I don't think any man wants to not walk their daughter down the aisle. My mom wanted to be healthy.

01:47:23 Speaker_02
She wanted to meet her grandchild, which she wasn't able to do. I think there's this slur and this lie. We are a free country. We should have sugary-filled foods, right? We should have beer. Drugs should be legal.

01:47:35 Speaker_02
But we should not be subsidizing Coca-Cola with food stamps. This standard of care is wrong. Like, after my awakening with KSAM, I thought, what do I want to do with my life?

01:47:44 Speaker_02
I started a company and it writes letters of medical testing, doctor's notes for food and exercise. We realized something that nobody in the healthcare system knows. Casey didn't learn this in Sanford.

01:47:55 Speaker_01
I never ever learned in medical school or residency that I could write a prescription for food or exercise. It's totally legal and if you do that, it can be covered by, you can use tax advantage dollars tax free. Never learned that in nine years.

01:48:09 Speaker_00
So you mean you could use tax dollars to give people gym membership? Yes. That is right now legal.

01:48:14 Speaker_01
I never learned that. It's called a letter of medical necessity.

01:48:18 Speaker_02
Our company, TrueMed, this year will do 500,000 gym membership recommendations from providers. We initially got a lot of questions from the industry because they've never heard these letters of medical necessity.

01:48:29 Speaker_02
We've walked into this through, walked in the law. As much as Pfizer has tried when I worked for Pfizer, the definition of medicine in the IRS tax code is not a synthetic pill made by a large pharmaceutical industry.

01:48:39 Speaker_02
The definition of medicine is something that's recommended by a medical practitioner for the prevention, reversal, cure, mitigation of a condition.

01:48:46 Speaker_02
The problem is that they've co-opted what medicine is in our brains, and at Stanford Med School, nobody understands this. So we've actually been educating members of Congress about this.

01:48:54 Speaker_02
But there's $150 billion in these HSA funds, and this is a message to everyone. Our company's doing it, but I would say it's much wider than that.

01:49:04 Speaker_02
Go to your doctor and demand a letter of medical necessity when they're taking out the prescription pad for the statin, for the metformin, for the SSRI. Study after study shows they have two cohorts of people.

01:49:16 Speaker_02
They've got people that exercise and eat whole foods, and then they have people that do antidepressants and go to therapy. The people that don't go to therapy, no drugs, but exercise and eat better food, demonstrably better outcomes in depression.

01:49:30 Speaker_02
So I think where this all over hits the road, and this is an important thing, I think, from conservatives, liberals, it's not about lecturing Americans. The answer is not lecturing Americans what to eat.

01:49:40 Speaker_02
I mean, they're buying books, they're listening to Dr. Huberman, but a lot of people are on a health journey. But with our clinical incentives, we should be incentivizing the clinically appropriate intervention for what health issues we're facing.

01:49:55 Speaker_02
We are facing a chronic disease metabolic health crisis. It's 9 out of 10 killers of Americans and 95% of medical spending. So just clinically, and Europe is actually doing this, right? If you have PCOS, infertility,

01:50:10 Speaker_02
in Europe, most countries, you get a subsidized keto diet because PCOS, which is the leading cause of female infertility, is insulin resistant. It's basically on the diabetes spectrum.

01:50:20 Speaker_02
And the most effective intervention to reverse PCOS and become more fertile is going on a 12-week keto diet. So what happens in the United States?

01:50:32 Speaker_02
Doctors, good friends, and actually my good friend that I always reference is an OBGYN from Harvard now is educating his patients about this and we've had good conversations, but doctors from Harvard Medical School who are OBGYNs do not know when they're sitting across from a patient who's infertile what causes PCOS.

01:50:48 Speaker_02
It's immediate, the standard of care, the standard of care is immediate jamming hormone pills down that woman's throat and on a quick route to IVF. IVF should absolutely, of course, be legal, but that's an invasive, procedure, right?

01:51:02 Speaker_02
And no woman listening, I'm sure, who's going through the traditional medical system, and most women, many, it's an epidemic right now, PCOS, they're not told this. They're not told this.

01:51:12 Speaker_02
So the key and the policy here is opening up flexibility for Americans to work with their doctor, to trust that they don't want to kill themselves. Sometimes drugs might be the answer. But we're way, way over-indexed on that right now.

01:51:29 Speaker_02
Could you imagine what would happen if Americans who are pre-diabetic or their kids are obese had the ability, instead of the $1,600 that we're mandating for six-year-olds a month of government-funded money to get Ozempic, if that could give mom the choice.

01:51:44 Speaker_02
Give mom the choice. We would have a transformation of our food system. And yeah, so that's what I kind of decided to push on in my life.

01:51:53 Speaker_02
And really, every American, the most defiant thing you can do personally, 80% of people have an HSA and FSA account. Max those out.

01:52:01 Speaker_02
If you're battling a chronic condition or even trying to prevent a chronic condition, get your eight sleep, get your athletic greens, get your gym membership. Talk to your doctor about it.

01:52:13 Speaker_02
We want a revolution of people actually demanding... Something Casey and I talk a lot about, acute versus chronic. This is very important. If you are about to die with an infection, a burst appendix, a gunshot wound, Go to the doctor. Go to the doctor.

01:52:31 Speaker_02
Take pause on chronic. You're being, kids are being now kind of, you're anti-science if you don't get on those metformin statins, SSRIs, those Empic, right?

01:52:39 Speaker_02
The studies are being, kind of shaming those moms, these poor moms on Medicaid, you know, single moms trying to make ends meet. They have, Medicaid is just a disaster. We poisoned poor kids and then jammed drugs down their throat.

01:52:51 Speaker_02
Moms don't know what to do. We just have to incentivize and just ask that question, and every patient should know you have the ability to step back. Your kid's not gonna die tomorrow if they don't take the statin. There's another route you can go.

01:53:07 Speaker_02
We have a chapter, Don't Trust Your Doctor, or what is it?

01:53:11 Speaker_01
Trust Yourself, Not Your Doctor.

01:53:12 Speaker_02
Trust Yourself, Not Your Doctor. But the evidence on chronic conditions.

01:53:16 Speaker_01
On chronic issues, where they have abjectly failed.

01:53:17 Speaker_02
They've failed.

01:53:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean, if you think about what's happened over the past 50 years, all of these chronic diseases are exploding. And the more we medicate them, the higher the disease rates are.

01:53:26 Speaker_01
Like, the more SSRIs we prescribe, the more depression we're getting. The more metformin we're prescribing, type 2 diabetes rates are going up. The more clomiphene we are prescribing, the more we're having to do IVF procedures.

01:53:39 Speaker_01
You know, it's not making sense. The more hypertension, ACE inhibitors, you know, beta blockers, the more hypertension's going up.

01:53:47 Speaker_01
And so it doesn't really make sense that we would say, oh, they're crushing it on these diseases by prescribing more pills when as the, you know, we're prescribing 221 million prescriptions for statins per year and heart disease is continuing to be the leading cause of death in the United States.

01:54:07 Speaker_01
This doesn't make any sense. And it's like Callie's saying, it is a free country and people should be allowed to make choice, but we don't need to pay for the bad choices for people, which is what we're doing.

01:54:18 Speaker_02
We don't incentivize cigarettes for kids.

01:54:20 Speaker_01
But we're incentivizing sugar. We're putting it in their school lunches. We are also making those foods cheaper through the farm bills and through our complete and utter support, $500 billion program, the farm bill program.

01:54:35 Speaker_01
And it's all, in terms of the crops of it, he's going towards commodity crops that are turned into ultra processed foods and making them cheaper. Less than 1%

01:54:44 Speaker_01
of the entire farm bill budget goes towards fruits, vegetables, nut seeds, beans, legumes, or dinner matters.

01:54:49 Speaker_02
Regenerative ranchers like Will Harris, who's a hero. And truly, if people want to do something before the election, they're trying to slide the farm bill five-year extension under our noses right now.

01:55:02 Speaker_02
They're trying to vote on that right now, because they're trying to get it in before Trump gets in, because they know Trump's going to blow stuff up. If you want to call your member of Congress, take one minute. Ask them to do food.

01:55:14 Speaker_02
not have just government-funded Ozempic before fixing our food system, the Treat and Reduce Obesity Act, and tell them it needs to be a one-year extension on the farm bill. This is happening right now.

01:55:22 Speaker_02
I'm getting literally from heroes and members of Congress are asking me to talk about this. They're trying to jam this farm bill that it's 90% subsidizes ultra-processed food ingredients.

01:55:33 Speaker_02
We're slanting, we're just, you know, as a conservative growing up, as a conservative growing up, I used to work for, you know, conservative think tanks used to pay us too, along with the NAACP.

01:55:46 Speaker_02
Excuse me, we used to pay conservative think tanks, the pharma industry. So we rigged the system, and then we pay conservative influencers to say it's nanny state to question the rigged system. Think about how screwed up that is, right?

01:55:58 Speaker_02
We rigged the system beyond recognition, tens of millions of dollars of lobbying spending to ensure that sugary drinks, that diabetes water is on food stamps, and then the moment you question that,

01:56:08 Speaker_02
you get attacked by the conservative influencers saying you're nanny state. We are still in that situation.

01:56:13 Speaker_02
We're waking up, and I think Trump's really realigned the parties to where when I grew up as a young conservative, it's like you trust the farmer, trust food without question, and it's totally against orthodoxy on the conservative side to question any corporation.

01:56:25 Speaker_02
That's changed, which is a very good thing, but you still have little remnants of that. Fixing a rigged market is not an attack on the free market. It's a necessity.

01:56:35 Speaker_02
The pharmaceutical industry spends five times more on lobbying and public affairs than the oil industry. There's five pharmaceutical lobbyists for every single government official.

01:56:46 Speaker_02
The healthcare industry, just as the economics, is the highest spender of TV news, the highest funder of TV news. They're the highest funder of politicians themselves. literally by far. They're the highest spender on research.

01:57:02 Speaker_02
They fund the regulatory agencies themselves, right? They fund the NAACP and civil rights groups and weaponize issues like feminism, racism, and body positivity very strategically to get us to shut up.

01:57:15 Speaker_02
They are just demonstrably, the healthcare industry is the lifeblood of every single institution that we trust in America. And to question that is not in any state. That's something Trump and RFK have kind of bashed through. We need a reset.

01:57:30 Speaker_02
We need to come together with the farmers. you know, with the brave people in healthcare, and have a reset.

01:57:38 Speaker_02
And I would just ask you, does it feel like it's a marginal issue or does it feel like, you know, we kind of need to have almost a spiritual reset here. And that's kind of, I think we can.

01:57:47 Speaker_02
Like, if we keep focusing on this and keep pushing, I think we can really unleash what everyone wants, honestly.

01:57:54 Speaker_00
I think it's also an information ripple effect, and this is why it's so important to have people like you lay this out so clearly, is that most people haven't heard it said.

01:58:04 Speaker_00
I think you guys have said it as clearly as anybody I've ever heard, and the message is so clear, and it's so concise, and then it gets out there. This wasn't available five years ago. It just wasn't. I'd never heard it.

01:58:18 Speaker_00
I didn't think that there was medical capture. I didn't think there was a problem with the NIH before COVID. I had no idea that there was this prevailing issue. I would have been the first person to defend vaccines.

01:58:29 Speaker_00
I would have been the first person to defend the medical establishment. They're working very hard to create drugs to help people with all these diseases, and we've got problems.

01:58:38 Speaker_00
People are getting the information now in a way that they've never gotten it before through the internet and I think because it's not regulated I think that's one of the things that freaks these people out and that's why you have people like Bill Gates who have profited tremendously from vaccines

01:58:54 Speaker_00
And his global health care initiative air quotes that this guy would be So bold as to say we have to remove vaccine misinformation when what studies have been done on vaccines?

01:59:07 Speaker_00
Like you you tell me what how clear are you when there is some sort of a correlation? There's a rise in all these issues and there's a rise in all these vaccines and children and you're saying that the work has been done Show me that work.

01:59:23 Speaker_03
Yeah

01:59:23 Speaker_00
Well, that work doesn't exist. And that's why this medical misinformation label is fucking horseshit. And it's scary that someone of great influence and extreme wealth would be promoting that when he profits off of it.

01:59:39 Speaker_01
I mean, if all these medications were crushing it and there were no side effects, everyone should probably take them. But if that's not really the case, then we need to silence anything that talks about it.

01:59:48 Speaker_00
Which is crazy.

01:59:49 Speaker_01
I think COVID, obviously, as you've said, it broke something open. It broke something open that I feel like is light because it's awareness.

01:59:57 Speaker_01
And I was probably a little more cynical having been in the healthcare system going into COVID because I was raised as a young surgeon with the mantra, as a surgeon, you eat what you kill.

02:00:10 Speaker_01
Like that is the unofficial mantra of the surgical world, which is that as a private practice surgeon, what you eat, i.e. what your salary is going to be, is what you kill, how many surgeries you sell and book.

02:00:21 Speaker_01
And so it was very black and white to me to understand that the financial security of everyone in the healthcare system is dependent on how much we actually do to people, how much we, you know,

02:00:34 Speaker_01
Unfortunately see these bodies essentially a box that we can either take things out of or put things in a in you know, but surgery is taking things out Or put medications in like that's it's very dark.

02:00:45 Speaker_01
That's why I left That's why I literally just put down my scalpel because I was heading out of residency into private practice And I thought I can't I can't do this I can't that's crazy right that this is like the business model of my industry because it's very personal and then

02:00:59 Speaker_01
You know, I had a really good friend who was with me in the hallway before taking a job as a cancer surgeon and, you know, tearful, saying, you know, I don't know if I can do this.

02:01:11 Speaker_01
Like, when people come through the doors of the surgical oncology department here, they are going to get a surgery whether they need it or not. Those are her exact words. And this is because it is, and again,

02:01:24 Speaker_01
Every doctor I know is a good person, went into health care for noble reasons. But if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If that's what you know, and that's what you can offer people, that is what you're going to offer people.

02:01:37 Speaker_01
And especially with cancer, when people are hopeless and desperate, and you have something you can do for them, and it happens to be really profitable, this revolving door keeps happening.

02:01:50 Speaker_01
You know, and then there's these, like, then just always getting back to systems issues, because that's where Callie and I really focus.

02:01:54 Speaker_01
Like, you look at some of these things, like, that sound good on paper, you know, that, and I think this is actually a lot what's happening with politicians is they see these bills, lots of things coming across their desk, and they kind of sound good on paper.

02:02:06 Speaker_01
It's going to be good for farmers. It's going to be good to reduce obesity. Sounds great. But the devil's always in the details. You know, you look at what happened with

02:02:14 Speaker_01
Obamacare, and they did speak about this idea of value-based care, which sounds really good. It's like, we're going to pay doctors more for better outcomes, which is awesome.

02:02:27 Speaker_01
So a doctor would have to show, essentially, that the patient is getting better, and they're doing it for a lower cost. That's the value equation. And if that happens, they get paid more.

02:02:37 Speaker_01
Easiest by far evidence-based way to make a patient healthier for a lower cost is to have them eat real food and exercise And sleep right and like manage their stress obviously not not drugging them for life and unfortunately that even that

02:02:52 Speaker_01
That whole project got co-opted by industry, because what happened was industry got their fingers in it, and the quality metrics that doctors were gonna have to report on to get that increased payment, instead of it being quality, good outcomes, being a healthier patient who reversed their disease, quality, good outcomes, was measured by how many of the patients in that doctor's practice were medicated on long-term medication therapy.

02:03:19 Speaker_01
So a doctor, instead of saying, I reversed these 50 patients' diabetes and now they are non-diabetic, they would report that they had their patient panel on long-term diabetes medication and they were compliant with it. That was a good outcome.

02:03:33 Speaker_01
So even something that sounds good, Obamacare, value-based care, can get corrupted if we don't look at the details. There's a new bill right now that's been introduced that's

02:03:46 Speaker_01
all about, you know, protecting farmers, that's basically going to allow the EPA, which is totally bought off, to decide at a federal level, whether these different pesticides are safe or not.

02:03:57 Speaker_01
And so if the EPA says that a particular pesticide is safe, then state by state, it's going to be similar to the vaccines where people cannot sue for harm caused by pesticide injury, if it's got the label the FDA said it is safe.

02:04:11 Speaker_01
So it's like, oh, well, this is going to create less complexity for farmers, and we're going to have less litigation. But it's the devils in the details.

02:04:17 Speaker_01
And so, you know, I think that all that is to say, I think COVID broke something open that is good, because it's basically giving people the courage in the face of total insanity that happened, to ask why, and to be a little bit more emboldened to do that.

02:04:36 Speaker_01
And, but there's, you know, there's a lot to clean up. And I think that just seeing it firsthand in the healthcare system, like, I have a little cynicism about it because of the way the incentives are in the business model.

02:04:46 Speaker_01
But I think like Callie said, with executive leadership, this could change rapidly.

02:04:49 Speaker_02
Yeah, this is, it sounds complicated. This can be unwound very quickly. Nobody wants this. You need executive leadership, strong executive agenda, and then a strong legislative

02:05:02 Speaker_02
priorities, and you need, with the executive agenda, to have transformational change eventually get to some real bipartisan.

02:05:08 Speaker_02
But I would argue, just listening to what Casey's talking about, and these systems issues, we all think, oh, we gotta, who are the experts, the uncorrupted medical experts who can figure this out?

02:05:16 Speaker_02
I think people like Elon Musk are much more important healthcare thinkers, systems thinkers.

02:05:21 Speaker_02
We need systems thinkers to literally just start top-down, looking at these agencies, looking at the web of incentives, and asking, what is something that makes sense to spur American health and disease reversal?

02:05:31 Speaker_02
Well, we spend $4.5 trillion... This is on Parson, right? We spend $4.5 trillion, it's growing at double the rate of GDP, on basically managing Americans poisoning themselves. It's like, how do we successfully use that money to reverse these trends?

02:05:48 Speaker_02
It's actually, when you get down to and start going down these rabbit holes, there's some major things you could do that are very dramatic. And it does get to core bureaucratic change. And you get to incentive change.

02:06:00 Speaker_02
You get to reorienting the incentives of these industries. And you get to eventually where all the money is, which is where are the subsidies going to? And where are those $4.5 trillion of health care spend going to?

02:06:12 Speaker_02
And you just have to demand that that follows the science and go to the right standard of care. And frankly, again, I can't stress this enough. Just let Americans choose. Give the Americans the information. Like, fearlessly.

02:06:21 Speaker_02
Let's give them the information on diabetes. Let's give them the information on obesity. Let's give them the information on the 72 vaccines. Let's give them the information on everything.

02:06:29 Speaker_02
And trust that the American people aren't suicidal enough to just want to kill themselves. We've infantilized the American people with our healthcare industry. And I think there's actual cultural and spiritual ramifications from that.

02:06:41 Speaker_02
We have told, the USDA says that it's dangerous to grow food in your backyard. Right? Literally, there's a war on whole food. Bill Gates says it's pseudoscience, as you've said, that trees help with global warming.

02:06:53 Speaker_02
He's literally putting up sun blockers. He's saying that it's anti-science to say that the future for developing country and feeding them is anything other than lab-grown meat and ultra-processed food. We're in a bizarre world here.

02:07:06 Speaker_02
We need moral clarity. Do we need studies to tell us that regenerative ranching and more natural processes and not raping our soil to where there's only 40 crop cycles left, and trying to out-hack everything and spray poison over all the crops.

02:07:21 Speaker_02
We just need to get back to basics. My one... Yeah.

02:07:24 Speaker_01
I was just going to say, the immediate response to what Callie's saying is, that's going to decrease access. People are going to starve. This is an equity issue. People can't afford regenerative agriculture. Yeah, by design, right?

02:07:35 Speaker_01
That is also a systems issue. The fact that people can't afford that food is because we're subsidizing... It's a luxury not to poison yourself. We're subsidizing the shitty food.

02:07:42 Speaker_01
So it's like, that's why at every level, you know, the immediate backlash to saying any of this is that, oh, that's elitist, classist, racist, whatever, you know, because not everyone can afford this.

02:07:54 Speaker_01
But that is literally by design, and that could be changed as well.

02:07:58 Speaker_02
Well, just think about these congressional meetings, and it's not a blink of an eye that that podiatrist, Representative Winstrup, bill, ozempic, $1,600, trillions of dollars in ramification, Not even a blink. He didn't even read the bill.

02:08:12 Speaker_01
He didn't even read the bill.

02:08:13 Speaker_02
And then we get lectured at the next meeting about how not poisoning kids is too expensive.

02:08:20 Speaker_01
Or complicated. How are we going to get the food there? It's not complicated. You know what's complicated? Sitting a 12-year-old down once a week to get an injection for their obesity. This is insane.

02:08:31 Speaker_01
Going to the pharmacy, having to pay for that, having to get the kid to accept the injection.

02:08:36 Speaker_02
All the other comorbidities that kid is going to have because they're not addressing the root cause.

02:08:39 Speaker_01
That kid's still gonna be living in a toxic stew. They're still gonna have a totally challenged life.

02:08:43 Speaker_01
Their mitochondria, is that ozempic gonna go into their cell and somehow clear out the mitochondria of all the other toxic crap that we're still living in? Absolutely not. So it's like, we are being gaslit.

02:08:56 Speaker_01
We are being gaslit to think that for some reason, the pharmaceutical approach is the only one that we can be- Only legitimate science. It's the only thing we should be passionate about.

02:09:05 Speaker_01
It's the only thing that defies complexity or cost and silence on kids need to be outdoors playing. Right now, the average kid in America is spending less time outdoors than a maximum security prisoner. We should think about that.

02:09:19 Speaker_01
The fact that the pesticides, the plastics, the sleep, all the things, and somehow that's all, it's too complicated, but we can jam kids for life with a shot weekly for $1,600 a month.

02:09:30 Speaker_02
There's no reason for this. Like, you just hear this, and if it makes sense, and you ask, like, how can this be undone? It's just like, it truly, like, this could be undone. Like, it's just, it's just because we haven't had focus on it.

02:09:42 Speaker_02
But like, you can get this done in a year. Like, I truly believe that RFK, you know, and Trump will focus on this.

02:09:48 Speaker_00
I think it's also something that truly should be a non-political issue in terms of bipartisan. I know they're labeling exercise, and I've seen them even label red meat consumption as being some sort of a far-right thing.

02:10:04 Speaker_01
And liking sunlight.

02:10:05 Speaker_00
Right. It's all horseshit. And I think most people realize it's all horseshit. It's not like the abortion issue. It's not like immigration.

02:10:12 Speaker_00
It's not like one of these things that people are ideologically captured to side on one side of the fence or the other. I think it's a fundamental human thing that would resonate with most folks if it starts getting going.

02:10:24 Speaker_02
Everyone wants this. Everyone wants this. I mean, again, we are idealistic, but this is a legacy issue. It's not a partisan issue. Again, I think that executive leadership, we have to be clear-eyed.

02:10:38 Speaker_02
If we don't have moral clarity and people that are going to say, go away to these industries and have clear, level-headed thinking on what's actually happening, we're screwed. But there are members of Congress and there's bipartisan appetite.

02:10:53 Speaker_02
Again, we've been meeting with dozens of them. I've been getting personal DMs from members of Congress. on this journey.

02:10:59 Speaker_02
People are clamoring for answers here, and I do believe that a focus on chronic disease reversal can be a banner bipartisan initiative that will go down in history.

02:11:13 Speaker_02
I think in a history book, if we're still around in a hundred years, we'll talk about this moment where we, I mean, the shame we'll have for what we did to kids on obesity, like childhood obesity, there's no greater moral stand in our country.

02:11:28 Speaker_02
It's like 3% in Japan. It's like 50% of teens are overweight or obese here. So it's just like, what are we doing?

02:11:35 Speaker_01
And if we're not thinking about this, what are we doing with our time? I just really don't understand sometimes, but I think that that gets into some of the tech and the more cultural issues. We're so distracted, and by design, right?

02:11:48 Speaker_01
We're so obsessed with, on our phones, 10 hours a day. You know, the average kid, I think it's seven hours a day now on a screen. So we're not we're totally funneled in on this stuff.

02:11:58 Speaker_01
And then you've got these other cultural factors that may have good intentions, like tech has a great side. And feminism has a great side. But they get weaponized culturally to say like, yeah, you know, like we were talking about earlier, women,

02:12:11 Speaker_01
don't cook, being a mother is second class citizenship. It's associated with like being property enslaved, get out of the workforce, rise the corporate ladder. And women are now 25% of them on our SSRIs. Divorce rates are 50%.

02:12:22 Speaker_01
Men are lost because basically women are saying like, men don't have a role anymore.

02:12:27 Speaker_01
You know, we got this and kids are not being able to, you know, get that quality time with their family to play and to be wisdom to be passed down and to have home cooked meals. And, you know, and I feel

02:12:41 Speaker_01
It's obviously the beautiful sides to that, but also it's like we've totally lost our priorities and we're giving away our attention freely so that we're so distracted that we're missing the existential issues that are happening here now.

02:12:55 Speaker_01
And I think that what Kelly and I really want to share is that like, there's a way to get back to, I think, deep fulfillment and genuine health.

02:13:04 Speaker_01
But we do have to, the chronic disease epidemic is just part and parcel with all of this because our brains and our bodies are basically getting destroyed.

02:13:15 Speaker_01
And then it's a vicious downward cycle where if our bodies aren't strong and our minds aren't strong, we're actually less strong to build a to face and to push back against the things that are trying to capture our attention.

02:13:27 Speaker_01
You know, you get a kid who is eating the dead food filled with the sugars and the seed oils and their brains inflamed. They're on the dopamine treadmill from life. And so they're going to be more

02:13:39 Speaker_01
easy to succumb to the phone that hits the dopamine or the drugs down the road.

02:13:44 Speaker_01
I think you talked about this with Brigham, like you put the rats in a group and if they're in community and they have kind of that purpose of community, they're not gonna choose the heroin water, right?

02:13:53 Speaker_01
They're gonna just choose the regular water, but that's why the food is so interlinked with all of it.

02:13:58 Speaker_01
Like, I just look at the food we're feeding our kids and we're doing this because families feel strapped for time and money, you know, and that's a societal issue.

02:14:05 Speaker_01
And we've also bought into this idea that both parents may be working all the time for women to have any value in society, which is insane, and forgotten that parenting is the most precious, incredible act we possibly could do, I think, as humans, and raising healthy, strong, critical-thinking people.

02:14:21 Speaker_01
But because of all of these forces, we are just giving food to our families that is literally dead. Ultra-processed food is dead food. People don't really understand this, doctors certainly don't.

02:14:33 Speaker_01
The second food comes out of the earth or is killed if it's an animal, like it starts degrading. That's just what happens. And the food has tens of thousands of molecular components in it that work miraculously with our cells to generate health.

02:14:46 Speaker_01
And right now, the average piece of food, I mean, 67% of our calories are ultra processed food, totally dead, totally stripped of all those miraculous nutrients.

02:14:54 Speaker_01
And the average piece of fresh food is traveling 1,500 miles from the soil to our plates and is usually out of the ground for weeks.

02:15:00 Speaker_01
So we are literally eating dead food that has lost all of its magic that is God-given for us to have cells that function properly.

02:15:09 Speaker_01
And all of this is tied in to all these cultural societal factors that are being used against us to make us think that our priorities are basically just climbing the corporate ladder. It's all interconnected.

02:15:20 Speaker_01
And fundamentally, we need to just wake up and really focus on, again, get back to the core basics below all of this, above all of this, which is that our life is a miracle.

02:15:34 Speaker_01
It is a miracle that we are here, that you're here, that I'm alive, that Callie's alive, that we're all here. It is so insane that we get to have this experience and privilege to be alive once. and to have these finite number of days.

02:15:49 Speaker_01
And we're squandering that because we're distracted. And we are, we are allowing ourselves to live in fear, when in fact, we don't need to have fear, because we are these incredible miraculous beings. And I think so that's why I think

02:16:05 Speaker_01
Just to, we're talking a lot about policy and it's really important, but I think it also like a lot of this is going to come down to us having a reckoning in our families and our communities with ourselves of like getting back to that higher level of like, Jesus Christ, like we're alive.

02:16:19 Speaker_01
This is insane. And this body is our temple. It's our one home. and we're destroying it. And that's not the best idea. We could actually be doing it differently.

02:16:31 Speaker_01
We could be honoring it, respecting it, letting it produce the energy it needs to produce to be able to reach our highest purpose in this one lifetime, and it's not that complicated.

02:16:41 Speaker_01
And I don't understand fully, I reflect on this every day with Callie, why are there dark, why are there forces that don't want that to happen? I don't understand. I don't know if it's just money. Because it's big, right?

02:16:54 Speaker_01
Like, everything we're saying is not the direction we're going in as a country as a world.

02:16:59 Speaker_01
And, you know, I don't I don't understand that it feels like we we have an opportunity to elevate consciousness here on this planet for future generations, and we're choosing not to, but we could make a different choice today, all of us by

02:17:15 Speaker_01
by really digging deep into our spiritual strength and being bold right now. I think now's the moment. And it's above political.

02:17:25 Speaker_01
There are political tactics that I think can help bring it to fruition, but fundamentally it starts with us, each of us individually believing that this life is a miracle and fighting for it.

02:17:35 Speaker_00
Well said. I think we might want to end it right there because that was so perfect. Anything else?

02:17:42 Speaker_02
Thank you.

02:17:43 Speaker_00
Thank you. Thank you guys. Listen, this message is so important. You guys lay it out so well. And I think people are waking up. I really do. And I hope that this being connected to Trump doesn't put people off.

02:17:57 Speaker_00
to the point where they're not able to recognize that this is about all of us. It has nothing to do with political party. It has nothing to do with ideology.

02:18:04 Speaker_00
It's just about being a human being and that money and that the pursuit of constant money from these corporations has created this diffusion of responsibility thing where each person inside that organization doesn't feel responsible for the overall result.

02:18:19 Speaker_00
And that they're not all bad people, and it's not demons running all these organizations. They're people that have been captured by a system that's been captured, and it's all about money.

02:18:28 Speaker_00
And that's why those people cheered when they found out that Ozempic was gonna be prescribed for everyone. So thank you very, very much. Please tell people, is there, obviously your book, Good Energy, that's available.

02:18:42 Speaker_00
Is there a way, do you guys have a website where people can reach out to as well?

02:18:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, I'm at caseymeans.com. I have a weekly newsletter that examines all of these things. I'm also the co-founder of a company called Levels, which is part of this whole mission, which is to basically empower people.

02:18:58 Speaker_01
We have democratized access to continuous glucose monitors so that people can actually understand their own metabolic health, because it's the most important aspect of our health.

02:19:05 Speaker_01
And right now, that technology has been actually, by the health care system, been sequestered just to people who already have type 2 diabetes. And the vision of the company is to help people

02:19:14 Speaker_01
before they get these diseases to understand how their diet and their lifestyle are affecting their metabolic health by using these totally available, not very expensive sensors and pairing it with intelligent software.

02:19:24 Speaker_01
So we've seen amazing things, people losing, we've had people lose 120 pounds just by having awareness of what this disaster food is doing to our blood sugar. So levels.com, caseymeans.com, and then of course our book, Good Energy.

02:19:38 Speaker_02
And I think the most important thing we can do today is steer our medical dollars to these root cause metabolic interventions like exercise. We could do that right now with HSAs, FSAs, which is why I started trumed.com.

02:19:48 Speaker_02
Everyone listening should look at your HSA, FSAs. You can go to trumed.com, figure out how to spend that money if you qualify on real medicine.

02:19:56 Speaker_02
If we can get our dollars to real medicine and away from waiting to get sick for pharma, we can do some major things. And most people are doing their HSA contributions right now. Inchronicdisease.org is something I set up.

02:20:09 Speaker_02
It just connects you with your member of Congress with some scripts to talk about this. I do think if people are compelled, we talked about the political, there's a real spiritual level here.

02:20:18 Speaker_02
And I think getting a little bit more involved, just calling your member of Congress for a couple minutes does make a difference. So I urge that inchronicdisease.org. Thank you. Thank you.

02:20:26 Speaker_00
Thank you both. Bye, everybody.