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Episode: #2204 - Matt Walsh

Author: Joe Rogan
Duration: 02:45:22

Episode Shownotes

Matt Walsh is a political commentator, author, filmmaker, and host of "The Matt Walsh Show" podcast.

His newest project is the theatrically released film "Am I Racist?"  www.dailywire.com/author/matt-walsh Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_04
The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:13 Speaker_03
What's happening? Hey, great to be back. Thanks for having me. Your movie is really funny. It's really funny. By myself, laughing out loud hysterically today. I watched it in the sauna. I watched it in the gym.

00:00:27 Speaker_03
I watched it, it was, it's one of the best comedies I've seen in a long time. Because there's so many moments in it that are so uncomfortable. That means a lot. I appreciate that. Yeah, that's what we're hoping for.

00:00:39 Speaker_03
The Robin DiAngelo one where you gave that guy money for reparations and you got her. She thought it was uncomfortable.

00:00:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, that was kind of... Well, we had the idea for the film to talk about race. We knew we needed to get Robin DiAngelo. I didn't think we'd get her, because I figured she'd be a lot more cautious.

00:01:01 Speaker_04
Savvy.

00:01:01 Speaker_05
Yeah, savvy and cautious. But apparently she has no idea what's happening outside of her bubble at all. So she didn't know who I was. I mean, I gave her my name and she had no clue. Wow.

00:01:15 Speaker_05
But we kind of went into that knowing what the end was supposed to be, if we could get her. We came up with that idea, we went to a bar the night before the interview and we came up with this idea.

00:01:26 Speaker_05
Could we get her to actually pay reparations to Ben, our black producer? And we had to kind of talk him into it.

00:01:35 Speaker_05
And it was really just like, in real time, I was there for about two hours, and it was an hour and a half of the most mind-numbing conversation where I'm just, none of that's in the movie, because it's just me.

00:01:48 Speaker_05
Fluff questions, and I'm repeating back to her own ideas so she knows that I'm a safe person.

00:01:53 Speaker_05
It's a safe space, and then you gotta build to it and build to it and build to it, and then finally you get to a point where you can do something a little weird, and she'll probably go along with it. And she did.

00:02:03 Speaker_05
I mean, you saw we go through a whole, we have a whole series of exercises we want to do with her. And she went, she did it. She was, she was game. So that was, and that was one of the first things we filmed.

00:02:17 Speaker_05
So after we got that, we knew that, okay, we have a movie here.

00:02:20 Speaker_03
I feel like you got your money's worth with her seeing as it's $15,000, but I feel like you got robbed by the lady that got upset about the mascot.

00:02:29 Speaker_05
50 grand you barely got anything out of her yeah that was well part of the point of the movie is that's why we put the the price tags on the screen we want people to see how absurd it is so in a certain way it was like

00:02:45 Speaker_05
The higher they quoted the price, we said, great, we'll pay that, because we want this in the movie. Because if all these people had said, oh yeah, I'll do it for free, or I'll do it for 200 bucks, just pay my travel, doesn't really make the point.

00:02:57 Speaker_05
But they all were quoting exorbitant prices, and she was the most. And then she basically said almost nothing. but it was okay.

00:03:09 Speaker_03
No one ever found out who the identity of the mascot is? No.

00:03:12 Speaker_05
I don't think so.

00:03:13 Speaker_03
It would have been hilarious if it was a person of color.

00:03:15 Speaker_05
Well, it almost certainly was. It almost certainly was, because if it was a white guy- They would have thrown him under the bus.

00:03:21 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:03:22 Speaker_05
Yeah, they would have. So the fact that they didn't ... It was probably some Hispanic kid or something.

00:03:27 Speaker_03
And you got to imagine, you can't see real good with that fucking costume. You ever put a mascot costume on?

00:03:34 Speaker_05
I haven't, but I can tell that there's little eye slits. You can't even see what's below you. Exactly.

00:03:41 Speaker_03
Duncan and I did a whole podcast where we pretended to be furries. Every podcast we do, we dress up. We'll dress up like Star Wars people or whatever. Spaceship people. We did a podcast as furries. We kept the helmets on for maybe five minutes.

00:03:55 Speaker_03
We're like, I can't fucking do it. And we both took them off. Props to the furries. If you could run around with this thing on, this is hard to do. You can't see shit. You can't breathe.

00:04:03 Speaker_05
So the idea that he missed those kids is like... The furries are doing a lot more than running around in those things, too. They are.

00:04:10 Speaker_03
I think they designed special ones for that.

00:04:12 Speaker_05
Yeah. I don't even want to know. Like a hatch. But it's actually a perfect example of what these people do, these race hustlers that something happened, it was a little bit unpleasant. Not a big deal. There's a million ways to interpret that.

00:04:27 Speaker_05
It's just a normal human thing that happens in the world. Things happen that are a little bit unpleasant. You're disappointed your kid didn't get a high five. Okay, it happens.

00:04:34 Speaker_05
But for them, they have one lens for seeing the world and the lens is through this left-wing racial ideology. So everything that happens is colored by that. And everything is understood through that lens. So anything, I mean, you think about

00:04:50 Speaker_05
Michelle Obama, when she was first lady, she had multiple stories that she would tell about as first lady being discriminated against because of her race, allegedly.

00:05:00 Speaker_05
And one of them was, she was in line for ice cream or something, and someone cut in front of her. And she told this story in some interview, this very dramatic story about, well, they didn't see her because she's black.

00:05:14 Speaker_05
Meanwhile, it's like we've all been cut it lady people have cut in front of all of us It's just that if it happens to me at Walmart, I don't think of it racially.

00:05:20 Speaker_03
I just think oh this person's an asshole Exactly, but for her it's all it's all racial So that's a crazy one to say that someone cutting in front of you a selfish act is somehow racist just because that's like looking for racism everywhere

00:05:35 Speaker_03
That kind of situation is so normal. It's so normal that some dick cuts in front of you.

00:05:40 Speaker_05
Right, exactly. It's an unpleasant thing that happens to all people. And if you're not in the kind of race hustler bubble, you don't see it that way, but that's.

00:05:51 Speaker_03
But it's interesting that nobody wants to call that out. Nobody wants to be reasonable. Nobody wants to say, well, is that, like, you just say, oh, wow. You know, you have to listen to it. That's part of the problem.

00:06:00 Speaker_03
Like, you can't say, are you sure that's racist? Because then you're a racist apologist. And then you're racist by proxy.

00:06:06 Speaker_05
Yeah. And how do you know, so how do you know what's in that other person's mind? How can you ascribe motives to them?

00:06:13 Speaker_05
It drives me nuts that this is what we do now, where if someone does something or says something, someone else is offended by it, that person who's offended gets to decide

00:06:23 Speaker_05
what the intent was behind the other person's action to the extent that if the other person says, no, no, no, this was my intention, I'll tell you what it was, they don't get to have a say in the intentions behind their own actions.

00:06:35 Speaker_05
They are suddenly not authorities in their own behavior. This other person who was the offended party gets to inform you what you meant by that thing, which is really what the, you know, I mean, the movie's called Am I Racist? But in reality,

00:06:53 Speaker_05
There's only one person who can answer whether you're a racist person, and that's you. And if you don't think that you're racist, then you aren't, because racism is a thought process. And if it's not in your head, then you're not racist.

00:07:08 Speaker_05
You might have stereotypical views about people of other races. Everybody does to some extent.

00:07:13 Speaker_05
You might think things that are even insulting about people of other races, but it's not racist, because racist means you hate people of other races or you think they're inferior to you.

00:07:24 Speaker_05
But you could be not a racist person and think that whatever, Asians are bad drivers, you know, you could think that that stereotype is true. Whether it's true or not, you just happen to think that that's a true thing about this group.

00:07:36 Speaker_05
Doesn't mean you hate them, doesn't mean that you think that they're inferior, it's just... You can say frat boys are annoying and not hate men.

00:07:43 Speaker_03
Exactly.

00:07:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, exactly whether and most of the time these stereotypes They didn't just fall out of the sky like they're grounded in something if they did no one would it wouldn't make any sense, right? And nobody would be offended. That's the thing.

00:07:56 Speaker_05
Nobody would be offended by a stereotype. They had no that really was not true at all right there you're only offended because it rings true at least a little bit and Because otherwise it would just be, it would be absurd.

00:08:08 Speaker_05
Which is why when you get, I mean in the movie we go, there's a section where we go kind of outside this bubble and we go down and we talk to bikers at a biker bar in the south. We talk to the poor black community in New Orleans.

00:08:23 Speaker_05
And the only reason we did that was just Well, let's find people who are not, they probably didn't go to college, so they didn't get brainwashed there. They're not getting the corporate DEI seminars.

00:08:35 Speaker_05
They're not reading Robin DiAngelo or any of these people. What do they think about this stuff? Are they worried about systemic racism? Do they see everything as racist all the time?

00:08:44 Speaker_05
And what we found is no, they're just not even, they don't even speak that language. When you say the term systemic racism to them, They said, well, what do you mean by that? What is that?

00:08:53 Speaker_03
Well, this was something that, like, people are always concerned about people being racist, but there's something that happened in this country somewhere around 2012-ish, where things really, really ramped up. And it just became...

00:09:07 Speaker_03
It just became much more of a subject, a subject that was like constantly around, you know, worrying about racial bias and it ramped up, right? It ramped up till you get to the point where you do have some of these race hustlers that are

00:09:23 Speaker_03
Saying everyone's racist.

00:09:25 Speaker_05
You're all you must confront your unconscious bias, and we're all right, and you're just constantly hearing about it It's like I think and I think you're right that it was around 2012 BLM Came into formation in 2013 I think those the Trayvon Martin thing

00:09:41 Speaker_05
And so it's not a coincidence that it seemed like race relations in this country were improving decade after decade. They weren't perfect, but it seemed like they were pretty good. Much better than the 60s. Yeah, the 90s. I grew up in the 90s.

00:09:52 Speaker_05
It was not perfect. I grew up in a diverse area. I went to public school. A lot of people of different ethnicities and races. We weren't talking about racism all the time. It was basically fine.

00:10:05 Speaker_05
And then something happened in the middle part of the first decade of the 2000s where it seemed like things started backsliding. And that's right at the time when Barack Obama was elected. And that's not a coincidence.

00:10:19 Speaker_05
Like a lot of people have noticed that it's odd that we had a black president and then all of a sudden, now we're having race riots again. And I think the reason is that when you elect a black president, I didn't like Obama. I didn't vote for him.

00:10:33 Speaker_05
I think his policies are terrible. But you would think that at least one positive you could draw from that is that, well, at least that means that systemic racism is not a problem in this country anymore.

00:10:43 Speaker_05
I mean, if a black guy could rise to the top of the system and run it, then clearly the system is not racist against black people. And in fact, was overwhelmingly voted into that position by Americans. Which is true.

00:10:57 Speaker_05
So that is evidence that America isn't systemically racist against black people. But the race hustlers don't want us to draw that conclusion. They're worried that we'll look at Obama as president and say, OK, well, racism isn't a big issue anymore.

00:11:09 Speaker_05
And that's a problem for them because there's a lot of power, money, and influence to be found in the racism narrative.

00:11:15 Speaker_05
So they had to kind of like double up on their efforts to convince us that America is actually racist, which is why during Obama's term, that's when we started getting all these race hoaxes and the race riots and BLM.

00:11:27 Speaker_05
That's when things like people started talking about microaggressions and all this kind of nonsense because They needed to tell us that, yeah, you might think that this issue is kind of solved now, but it's not.

00:11:38 Speaker_05
Racism is actually worse than you ever imagined. It's lurking everywhere.

00:11:41 Speaker_05
And now we're at a point, and then not long after that, they started tearing down Confederate Civil War monuments and stuff, stuff that's been there for like 100 years, which was always weird because 100 years ago, people could, whatever, walk by a Robert E. Lee monument and not care.

00:11:59 Speaker_05
It wasn't a big deal to them, black or white.

00:12:02 Speaker_05
now all of a sudden it's a bigger deal to us than it was to people whose like parents fought you know they have they had grandparents who fought in the civil war died in the civil war they were okay with it and yet for us what the wounds of the civil war are fresher or more raw for us than they were for people a century ago it makes no sense how are we less able to

00:12:25 Speaker_05
be objective and non-emotional about the Civil War than people who had family members. I mean, ex-slaves were still living back then.

00:12:34 Speaker_03
Well, I think it's because it's just like a religious ideology, like when the Taliban started blowing up those ancient statues of Buddhas. Do you remember that? Yeah.

00:12:44 Speaker_03
They destroyed things that were a part of human history that we would have studied for thousands of years. And they destroyed them because they didn't go along with their religious ideology.

00:12:54 Speaker_03
And I think part of the woke thing is this religious ideology that has to be followed. And you cannot stray from the lines. You have to stay inside whatever this ideology is promoting and telling you what to do.

00:13:10 Speaker_03
And one of the things was that you had to take down all these statues of terrible people. And I remember Trump saying at the time, well, the problem with that is, like, eventually they're going to take down George Washington.

00:13:21 Speaker_03
And everybody thought he was crazy. Like, that's a crazy thing to say. But once they got past Civil War people, then they got to who owned slaves.

00:13:30 Speaker_03
And then they got to taking down, they wanted to take down statues of Thomas Jefferson and eventually did get to George Washington.

00:13:36 Speaker_05
Yeah. And that was always, it was always going to go that way because George Washington, founding fathers owned slaves. Not only that, but they were rebels, you know, rebelling against a governmental authority.

00:13:51 Speaker_05
And if they had lost, then they all would have been hanged as traitors. And that's how they'd be remembered. Thankfully, they didn't. But so there's a it's actually there's a there's a it's not that far of a leap to go from from one to the other.

00:14:03 Speaker_05
And, of course, the issue is that Everybody who lived on earth prior to about, certainly prior to 100 years ago, is racist by our standards today, every single one.

00:14:18 Speaker_05
There was no one who lived on earth 100 years ago who we would not consider racist, anywhere, of any race. If you go back 200 years or earlier than that, almost everybody either owned slaves or was okay with slavery as an institution.

00:14:34 Speaker_05
You go back 500 years, And there was nobody on the planet who considered slavery to be wrong fundamentally.

00:14:43 Speaker_05
They might have had issues with how slaves are treated in some context, but it took like thousands of years for it to ever even occur to a single human on earth that slavery is actually fundamentally wrong.

00:14:55 Speaker_05
Which is a crazy thing, and that's actually an interesting thing you could talk about and think about. Like, why is that? How could it be that it's so obvious to us, but some of the greatest minds of history, they never thought of it.

00:15:06 Speaker_05
But we can't talk about that because we have to talk about slavery and racism as if they're exclusively white Western phenomena.

00:15:12 Speaker_03
Well, I've had friends that have a different perspective on the Obama situation, and my friend Willie was talking to me about this, and he was saying that what happened was when you – look, one thing that we can be sure of is that race is surreal.

00:15:27 Speaker_03
There are real racists in this country. There's real anti-black racists, anti-Asian racists. There's certain people that have hateful ideology in this country, just a certain percentage of them in the world. So those are real.

00:15:40 Speaker_03
And when Obama became president, those people became more emboldened.

00:15:44 Speaker_03
And he said that he saw a lot more of that online and a lot more attacks, especially in uncensored online forums like 4chan and places where you can kind of get away with saying whatever the fuck you want.

00:15:58 Speaker_03
He said he saw a lot more of that on the streets, and he said this is probably why he believed Michelle Obama didn't want to run for president, because she experienced so much of that hate while they were in the White House.

00:16:09 Speaker_03
Forget about hate for their policies and what you think about them as president and first lady, but the racism hate.

00:16:18 Speaker_03
So his perspective as a Black guy was like, you had to be a Black person to realize how angry people were that there was a Black guy who was president, because that was real too.

00:16:28 Speaker_03
It was real that racism in America and racial relations in America had changed radically since the 1960s. certainly since the 1920s and 30s, and over the years has kept getting better.

00:16:39 Speaker_03
But in his mind, there was something that happened where when Barack Obama got into the White House, that the real hardcore racist got very vocal, and he experienced it.

00:16:51 Speaker_03
And I think this is akin in some ways to what's going on with anti-Semitism online, because I think there's always been a certain amount of people in this country and in the world that are deeply anti-Semitic. And they just don't like Jews.

00:17:09 Speaker_03
And when something happens where all of a sudden now it's okay to criticize Jews because of Israel's position in Gaza and what they've done, now you see anti-Semitism just pop out of the woodwork.

00:17:22 Speaker_03
I think there's something like that, where people feel emboldened to talk about things. So maybe we just don't have an accurate account of how fucked up some people are.

00:17:31 Speaker_03
But the general population, and whether you're conservative or whether you're liberal, everybody kind of agrees that racism is a stupid thing.

00:17:42 Speaker_03
There's amazing people of all ethnicities and colors, and you should judge people, like Martin Luther King said, by the content of their character. We all agree with that. But there's a certain amount of people that are always going to be racist.

00:17:57 Speaker_03
But when you start looking for it everywhere and saying everything is racist, first of all, it's an insult to real racism. It's an insult to the people that are the victims of real racism.

00:18:09 Speaker_03
When you consider microaggressions or cutting in line in front of you to get ice cream, there's people that are real victims of racism. and pretending that everything is racist just minimizes that and in fact probably makes more people racist.

00:18:24 Speaker_03
It's going to make a bunch of dumb liberals drop to their knees or give you money for reparations, but it's going to make a bunch of other people really resentful and it just polarizes us and drives people further and further apart.

00:18:37 Speaker_03
It's just genuinely stupid.

00:18:40 Speaker_05
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and I think that's true, what he said about I'm sure that when there's a black president, we know there are real racists out there, there are anti-black racists, there are anti-white racists, but they're out there and

00:18:57 Speaker_05
Social media was also really coming online around that time, so people had a forum to express this kind of stuff. And anonymously. Anonymously. And so, yeah, those people come out of the woodwork. I'm sure that did happen. I don't deny that.

00:19:10 Speaker_05
The difference, though, is that that kind of racism is personal and individual. It's not systemic. It's not in the system. Right. And also, It's absolutely rejected by society. It's absolutely rejected by polite society.

00:19:29 Speaker_05
So there's a reason why they have to go to 4chan or whatever to express those views. Because you can't come out in public and say it. And if you do, it'll be like the end of your whatever your career is. It's probably the end of it.

00:19:40 Speaker_05
And that's kind of, that's the most you're going to, when it comes to, as you said, there's never going to be a time when there's no racists in the world. So the most you can do is, okay, we're not going to have this stuff systemically.

00:19:52 Speaker_05
We're going to, the system's going to treat everybody equally. Great. We crossed that off the list. We've already done that. Um, actually we've gone too far cause you got affirmative action where now you're discriminating against white and Asian people.

00:20:02 Speaker_05
But so anti-black racism is out of the system. Fantastic. That's good. Uh, it's not accepted by mainstream society. Great. And then, So that's kind of it. I mean, what else can we do with this?

00:20:15 Speaker_05
You can't get inside people's hearts and make them not feel things. Those people are going to be out there. They know that it's not accepted in mainstream society. And I kind of think you could sort of move on from it culturally to other issues.

00:20:32 Speaker_05
It's not a major issue anymore.

00:20:36 Speaker_05
But they won't allow it and you're right that then it's got this pendulum thing where okay Well, if you go after white people and you demonize them relentlessly Then you do it practically from birth now through the school system Some of those white people are gonna end up Being stricken by guilt or they're gonna walk around feeling like they're guilty for something.

00:20:57 Speaker_05
That's the white guilt liberal thing but then you can have others who kind of become exactly what you accuse them of being because they're like, oh, you know what? If you're going to call me racist anyway, then you know what? Fine.

00:21:10 Speaker_05
And there's going to resentment that builds up and then you actually create more of it, which I think they're happy about.

00:21:15 Speaker_05
If actual racism is increasing in society, I don't know if it is or not, but I think the people that call themselves anti-racist are quite happy about that.

00:21:22 Speaker_03
Well, business is booming. But the other thing is, think about Robert D'Angelo, who you said just lives in her own bubble and really didn't know who you were and didn't catch on at any point in time that any of this stuff was ridiculous.

00:21:37 Speaker_03
like these people that this if that's all you think about and that's all you can like I have friends that live in California and every now and then I'll talk to them and some politics issue will come up and they give me this fucking CNBC they give me this MSNBC this fucking propaganda viewpoint on something that's so wrong just so and I just go okay I can't like you're you're in

00:22:04 Speaker_03
You're in your bubble. There's no there's no real discourse. There's no real Dis there's no Discussions about whether or not what these people are saying is correct. It's just you're a part of this tribe and this is what you believe and

00:22:19 Speaker_03
I think that's the case with these anti-racist people, too. Some of them might be just hardcore grifters. They could be playing three-card money, or they could just get corporations to give them money by saying that everybody's racist.

00:22:33 Speaker_03
There's some people that are definitely like that. But there's other people that are just – that's their friend group.

00:22:38 Speaker_03
Like that's their social circle their social circles all people believe this stupid shit And they all yap it to each other and they they say it like it's a mantra and they pray five times a day With it, you know, it's really like a religious thing.

00:22:51 Speaker_05
I think it is like a yeah, I think you're exactly right about that That's that's why for me the more So the grifters that are getting paid, that's not that complicated to figure out why they're doing it. They're getting paid. A lot of them.

00:23:03 Speaker_05
A lot of them are. And even when they're not, there's still power and influence. And they're being consulted as kind of these moral gurus, which strokes the ego. That's rewarding.

00:23:15 Speaker_05
The more interesting thing is, what about the people who go to those people Consult them as moral gurus.

00:23:22 Speaker_05
I mean in the movie we have this race to dinner where you got these white women Who sit around a table and they invite these other two women cyber Raul Regina Jackson?

00:23:32 Speaker_05
To come to dinner they pay them to come to dinner and call them them racist for two hours And it's like, why would you subject yourself to that?

00:23:40 Speaker_05
It's so it's seems like the most miserable experience to volunteer to be broken down and insulted and degraded, which is what happened to these women. I mean, I saw it. They were like two hours of them just getting

00:23:53 Speaker_05
You're racist, you're racist, you're racist. They had to go around the table, confess their racist sins. And then they all, they each go and they say what their racist sins, like, what's a racist thing you've done recently? They all confess.

00:24:06 Speaker_05
And I'm listening to it and it's like, none of you have actually done anything racist. I listened to all your stories. None of that is racist. There's a woman who said that she's married to a black guy and she, Yeah.

00:24:18 Speaker_05
He's loud and she tells him to quiet down sometimes. What wife has not said that to their husband?

00:24:26 Speaker_03
Exactly. I get that once a month.

00:24:29 Speaker_02
Right, so what do they- I think my wife is racist. She could be. She could be.

00:24:33 Speaker_03
She's racist against me. Sexist at least, yeah. She's sexist against me.

00:24:37 Speaker_05
So what are they getting out of it?

00:24:39 Speaker_03
Well, they're getting out of it, first of all, they're terrified of being called racists. So they jump the gun. So they headed off at the path, like, I'm going to make sure I'm not racist, so I'm going to become an anti-racist.

00:24:49 Speaker_03
You know, I talked about this before, but when my kids were young, like my youngest was pretty young when they started doing this anti-racism thing at the school where they said it's not enough to be not racist. This is actually right after we left.

00:25:07 Speaker_03
So it's right after like the George Floyd things popped off. They said it's not good enough to not be racist. You have to be anti-racist. You're talking about some of these kids. in that school are six. Like what are you saying? It's not enough.

00:25:23 Speaker_03
What are you saying? You're saying a six-year-old has to be an anti-racist? Can't they just play with their toys? Can't they just go to the park and hang out with their friends? Can't they just play sports? Can't they just enjoy each other?

00:25:36 Speaker_03
Six-year-olds don't give a fuck what color somebody is. They don't. They all just play together. They just want to play with the people who are nice to them and who they have fun with and laugh with.

00:25:47 Speaker_03
And here you've got some fucking grifter who latches themselves onto some school system that's filled with all these terrified liberals that are just terrified of being called out for anything. And all the rules are changing and everybody's like, oh.

00:26:02 Speaker_03
And so they bend the knee. They bend the knee.

00:26:06 Speaker_05
And with kids, it's so insidious because Yeah, kids don't care about race. They notice it though, which is fine, but then you give them like this complex from such a young age, which is so unnecessary.

00:26:20 Speaker_05
And that's why, I mean, I remember when my oldest daughter was five, we were at the mall or something and a black family walked by and she pointed at them and said, Why are people black? Why is their skin like that?

00:26:38 Speaker_05
She wanted to know, why does skin color exist? How do some people have different skin color than other people? And of course, I told her, to be polite, we don't point at people in public, so I told her that, but then we talked about it.

00:26:52 Speaker_05
It's okay to wonder that. It's okay to notice that. I think with these anti-racist people, if I was listening to them, I should have,

00:27:01 Speaker_05
Like this would have been an opportunity for me to give her a whole lecture about racism and make her feel really bad for noticing that and asking about it.

00:27:09 Speaker_05
And then you create this complex, and yeah, fast forward 20 years and she's one of these women at a race to dinner. It's awful. But it's a very potent thing. I mean, white guilt, the fear of being called racist, it's hard for me to understand because

00:27:29 Speaker_05
You know, I get called racist all the time, 50,000 times a day, and it just rolls off my back. I don't care, because it's just- It doesn't mean anything anymore.

00:27:37 Speaker_05
It doesn't mean anything, but for you and I, it doesn't mean anything, but for a lot of normal people, especially- It's a death sentence. Right, to be called that, it's like the worst thing in the world. They're terrified of it.

00:27:50 Speaker_05
They'd literally rather be called anything than racist. Yeah. And then, so for them, once you, those kinds of people, When that's the threat, when being called racist is a threat, you can get them to do anything.

00:28:07 Speaker_05
Spoilers or whatever, but in the movie, the last thing in the movie when I do my own anti-racist workshop with these people, and they're all real people, and we get them to join in on some things that are really morally repugnant.

00:28:24 Speaker_05
Because they're terrified of being called racist publicly. They can't stand that thought.

00:28:29 Speaker_03
And the other thing that happens with kids is... if you have a thing like you're telling the kid they have to be anti-racist, well, some kids are going to use that as a platform to increase whatever social cred that they have.

00:28:44 Speaker_03
And they get feedback from it. It's positive feedback. And they get very vocal. And the more vocal, the more people are impressed. And the more work they do, the more people are going, you're doing great work.

00:28:54 Speaker_03
And then you get what's essentially like the racial version of Greta Thunberg. Like, what is that lady? That lady's moral outrage at what have you done? How dare you? And everybody's like, yes, we like what you just did.

00:29:07 Speaker_03
And so now you do it all the time. And so now somehow or another, a 16 year old kid travels all over the world telling everybody they're bad. flying around in jets telling everybody they're bad for ruining the environment.

00:29:19 Speaker_03
And she gets to feel morally superior, morally superior, virtuous. And for a child to be in a position where they become virtuous is, you know, they love that. They love that.

00:29:30 Speaker_05
To be in a position where they can lecture adults.

00:29:33 Speaker_03
Yes.

00:29:33 Speaker_05
Or adults are looking to them as authorities.

00:29:36 Speaker_03
Yes. College kids love to do that. The moment they're out of their house, the moment they don't have their parents telling them what to do anymore, now they can tell other people what to do.

00:29:44 Speaker_03
And it's just like, it's one thing that you see online from people who have been bullied in the past.

00:29:52 Speaker_03
The people that have been picked on and fucked with boy They like to do it to people like online on Twitter mobs They like to jump in and I know a lot of people that have that I've known a lot of people that have engaged in these things I've known them personally these feeble weak Terrified men and they say the most heinous things about people like uncharitable not knowing like what what kind of response these words are gonna have in that person and

00:30:21 Speaker_03
And they, they bully these people because they've been hurt. You know, it's that hurt people, hurt people thing. That's what it is. But they don't think it's a violent, they don't think it's as bad as bullying. Like in real life bullying is terrible.

00:30:31 Speaker_03
You're going to hit somebody. How dare you, you fucking monster. Well, you're emotionally scarring people online every day.

00:30:37 Speaker_03
And you think you're doing it through this when you, it's like one of the things Elon's talked about this, that one of the things that woke does, it allows really mean people. This ideology allows

00:30:48 Speaker_03
really mean shitty people to have a virtuous way of expressing that.

00:30:53 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think that's that's right. And also the internet. I mean, the whole idea that the internet isn't real, we hear it all the time. That's why I hate it when people say, well, Twitter isn't real life.

00:31:05 Speaker_05
But and I understand what's meant by that when people say that, but it actually is real life. Because These are human beings who are communicating with each other.

00:31:13 Speaker_05
Now, there are bots, too, but if you're a human being on Twitter saying something, that's real life. It's not fake. This isn't happening in some kind of dream world.

00:31:24 Speaker_05
But then people think that, well, okay, if I just say this on Twitter, I put it in a YouTube comment section, and it's this heinous, awful thing, it doesn't count, it doesn't mean I'm a bad person, because it's not real life.

00:31:35 Speaker_05
Which is like, that's like, Writing on a loose-leaf paper calling someone a piece of shit and handing it to them and then they get mad at you And you say hey, man, it's the paper. It's not real life Like it just it just happened on the paper.

00:31:48 Speaker_05
It's a it's a it's a method for communicating and and so I think people have been

00:31:54 Speaker_05
Condition that in this world, it's like a moral exception so you can do and say whatever you want And you don't have to feel bad about it, right and it turns people into sociopaths after a while I think I think it does too and I also think it ramps up anxiety in a huge way for the people that are actually engaging in it

00:32:10 Speaker_03
You know the people that actually do it. I think they're just fully anxious all day long And I think it's terrible for mental health Even if you're like quote-unquote winning these verbal battles online that you're engaging in.

00:32:21 Speaker_03
I think it's terrible for everybody It's really terrible for the people that are just like all day long negative like there's an arguing with people Like why do you want that in your life?

00:32:30 Speaker_03
That's that's a very unusual position to be in where all day long you're in conflict That's only war In the real world, most of the day, there's no conflict. That's why conflict is so uncomfortable, because it's so unusual.

00:32:44 Speaker_03
If you're used to conflict with people all the time, and you see some guy and he's like, fuck you. No, fuck you. But if you're not used to someone saying, fuck you, and then all of a sudden, hey, fuck you, and you're like, what? You're terrified.

00:32:54 Speaker_03
You're freaked out. What's going on? Oh my god, this is conflict. The kind of conflict, verbal conflict, that people engage in online all day long has the same sort of effects on your psyche. You are perceiving the world to be this.

00:33:07 Speaker_03
This is one of the things that's so polarizing about this particular election, right? That people are willing to accept propaganda because it feeds into their view of the world, which is that they're engaged in this moral battle, good versus evil.

00:33:22 Speaker_03
And both sides think they're good. And both sides think the other side is going to be the end of the world. And it's accentuated heavily by mentally ill people that are on Twitter all day long. Yeah, I'm one of them.

00:33:36 Speaker_05
You seem fine. But I mean, I am guilty of some of this. I do. I'm on it way too much, first of all. But then I have my excuse, which is part of my job. It's part of your job.

00:33:51 Speaker_05
I do often think if I didn't do this for a living at all, I don't think I'd be on any of this stuff.

00:33:56 Speaker_03
I think I'd be off everything.

00:33:58 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:33:58 Speaker_03
If I was not a quote-unquote public figure, I would be off everything.

00:34:02 Speaker_05
Because I don't know if you have a problem. If I go on vacation or something and I'm taking time, I have no issue putting it down. I have no compulsion to look at it. In fact, I have to, when I come off vacation, it's effort to get back.

00:34:13 Speaker_05
It's like, okay, I got to get back into this again.

00:34:16 Speaker_05
It takes me a couple days then after a couple days now It's a compulsion again, but right I have to I have to reignite this weird compulsion to constantly look at my phone I have a problem too, and that I'm a comedian and that I'm also a gold miner, right?

00:34:29 Speaker_03
So what that means is when I'm going through my newsfeed my newsfeed is the thing I'm the most addicted to I'm mining for gold like what's going on here what they do they did what they? Fucking what? And I need those. Those are really important to me.

00:34:42 Speaker_03
Because those can be my next hour of stand-up. Those can be, they're chunks. And it's not every day. It's like, I can go through 30 days of nonsense and just not one thing. But every now and then, there's a chunk of gold in there. I'm like, oh, I got one.

00:34:57 Speaker_03
And then I put that in my notes, and I justify endless scrolling to get to those gold nuggets.

00:35:05 Speaker_05
But if you didn't do any of this for a living, if you just worked at Lowe's or something,

00:35:09 Speaker_03
Do you think you'd still be the problem is I'd still be me and I still have this Really intense curiosity. I'm Really curious about all kinds of things. There's so many subjects.

00:35:19 Speaker_03
I'm really really interested in I mean I would I would for sure still be paying attention to I You know, science issues and space travel and, you know, new discoveries in the universe.

00:35:31 Speaker_03
And there's a bunch of stuff that I would just be ancient history, ancient civilizations. I would be there's no way I would not be fascinated by them because they almost have nothing to do with my job.

00:35:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think I think I would be the same, but I don't think I'd feel the need to. I would like to absorb all that interesting information, but I wouldn't feel the need to say, hey, world, here's what I think about this.

00:35:50 Speaker_03
I would just absorb it.

00:35:51 Speaker_03
The problem is if you do, and you do it just once, and then you get feedback, and then people say, hey, I really like what you posted, and you're like, oh, great, and then all of a sudden you're connected, and then you're looking for this feedback, so you're trying to post things to get likes, and you're trying to post things to get reposts, and get comments, and you're engaging in the comments, and now you're fucked.

00:36:10 Speaker_03
Now you're locked into this weird ecosystem with these people you don't even know. They might be all stupid. They might be all really annoying people that you would avoid in real life.

00:36:20 Speaker_03
Like if you work with them, you're like, oh, there's Tom, let me get the fuck out of here. And you go to the other side of the office. But now you're engaging with them.

00:36:26 Speaker_03
People that you avoid having conversations with, you are now in mortal combat with words on Twitter. And it's fucking stupid.

00:36:36 Speaker_05
And not only that, but their engagement with you is cheap. They don't care that much. So even if someone gives you positive feedback and they say, oh, that was a great tweet, they've forgotten about it two seconds later, right?

00:36:48 Speaker_05
You're just, they're just scrolling. You're just the latest thing they saw and they're scrolling and they've already forgotten about it. They don't care if they cuss you out cause they're mad at you. Same deal. They forgot about it two seconds later.

00:36:58 Speaker_05
So yeah, I guess it could be kind of intoxicating, intoxicating, get the engagement, but then it doesn't matter. And that's one of the, That's one of the things that makes it so toxic, is how sort of like nihilistic it all is.

00:37:10 Speaker_05
That's why, and this never was an issue before, but now I feel like when I go on social media, I'm constantly seeing these horrific videos of people dying, like snuff films are all over social media now. It feels like a relatively recent development.

00:37:31 Speaker_05
And, That's really horrible what it does. I don't even think we quite understand what it's doing to our minds. I actually think we are all traumatized from it. I don't use the word trauma loosely.

00:37:42 Speaker_05
But what's traumatizing is not only are you seeing somebody die, but it's a context. It's like you see this horrible video of someone just got shot, and then you keep scrolling, and a second later you're

00:37:56 Speaker_05
reading something about whatever, you know, a celebrity news or you're watching a cat video. So it's like this, it's this horrific human thing that happened, but for you, it's just content. You absorb it that way.

00:38:09 Speaker_05
And I don't know after a while of just absorbing human suffering in this in this way. It's got to mess with your mind.

00:38:16 Speaker_03
Of course it does. I mean you're the product of what you take in even if that information is like low impact. It's not the same impact as being there when the hitmen show up and gun the guys down in front of the cafe.

00:38:28 Speaker_03
Like, I've seen these videos where it's just mass shootings. This one video I saw the other day of some gang violence situation.

00:38:35 Speaker_03
These guys drove by, gunned these guys down, and then the guys started shooting back, and they were all shot while they're shooting back, and then the car backs up, and then they gunned them down more. It's fucking crazy.

00:38:47 Speaker_03
But it's not the same as being there. If you were there, that would haunt you for the rest of your life. If you were across the street and you watched that happen, you watched these people die, it would haunt you for the rest of your life.

00:38:56 Speaker_03
But you get a little blip. Instead of getting a 100% dose, you get a little 1% dose, a little 1% dose, and you get them all day long. And by the end of the day, you're just like, what the fuck is the world?

00:39:08 Speaker_05
But it's a thing, it kind of should haunt you for the rest of your life.

00:39:10 Speaker_03
It's a horrible thing to see. But it's like Twitter in that it's not a full experience.

00:39:16 Speaker_03
If you were having the kind of exchanges that some people have with each other where they're just ruthlessly insulting and shitty to people, if you were having those in person, there's a high probability that that's gonna lead to violence, actual violence.

00:39:29 Speaker_03
Like if two men are in a room and one man starts insulting this other person really viciously, and talking about their life and their family and all kinds of crazy shit that people do online.

00:39:41 Speaker_03
There's a probability, it's more than 0% that this is gonna result in violence. But there's zero possibility of it online. It's just free, it's a free shot. And that's part of the problem as well, is that it's not a real human interaction.

00:39:58 Speaker_03
So you're getting like these little doses of shittiness from people, but you're not getting this one burst where you and this guy are about to throw down.

00:40:06 Speaker_03
because he's like he's insulting you to the point where like this person is actually dangerous like this is actually this person hates me like this could be a real bad situation here and i think much like that exists on twitter where you have these little shitty interactions it's like one percent of real hate and it just adds up over time that's the same thing as seeing violence seeing all these executions seeing all these botched robberies seeing all these people that get murdered in some you know third world country

00:40:35 Speaker_03
You just get a little tiny piece of it all the time, and it normalizes it. It's probably really, really bad for us.

00:40:45 Speaker_05
Do you pay attention to what people say about you online? No. You never search for Joe Rogan? Nope. Never? Nope. Shouldn't do it. It's not good for you. I'll admit that I've done it on occasion.

00:41:01 Speaker_05
If you want to just destroy your self-image, you can do it pretty quickly.

00:41:05 Speaker_03
Well, that's what they want. That's what people want to do when they say things like that. Like, this is my opinion. And a lot of it is like really out of line.

00:41:13 Speaker_03
Like a lot of it is just like the worst possible – like I said before, like the least charitable takes, the least nuanced, this ridiculous caricature of a human being just to try to

00:41:27 Speaker_03
Just to try to demonize them to make yourself look virtually or virtuously Superior. It's just dumb.

00:41:35 Speaker_03
It's a dumb way for people to communicate and the kind of people that do it are all losers Yeah, there's no like really exceptional fascinating people that engage in that kind of stuff Well, the thing that gets me I don't mind when people insult me.

00:41:47 Speaker_05
I don't care I'm used to it. It's the lies like when I see something about myself That's just a straight up lie. Totally made up.

00:41:57 Speaker_05
And then it picks up track shit and people are, sometimes it could be even someone photoshopping a tweet that I never said, or whatever, anything. That stuff still bothers me.

00:42:10 Speaker_05
And I try to tell myself it shouldn't bother me, but at the same time, it should. It's normal for a person to be bothered

00:42:17 Speaker_05
when you're being lied about, and other people are believing a lie, I think it's a normal human reaction that I'm like, I don't want, that's not fair, that's not true.

00:42:26 Speaker_05
You could attack me for things that I really have said and done, but that's, you can't do that, that's not true. But then at a certain point, you just have to sort of give into it and realize this is the way the internet works, I guess.

00:42:39 Speaker_03
Well, it's also who knows who's doing it. And at this point in time, we have to accept the reality of propaganda. And that there, you know, we've talked about this ad nauseum, but I'll say it again.

00:42:49 Speaker_03
There was a an FBI former analyst did some sort of a study on Twitter, where he was estimating the amount of bots versus this is like right around the time when Elon was saying that it's more than 5%. He said he thinks it's about 80%.

00:43:03 Speaker_03
He thinks 80% of the accounts. Yeah, 80% of the accounts are fake accounts. which just stop and think about if you're in a country.

00:43:14 Speaker_03
Let's imagine you want the politics of America to swing in a certain direction, because we most certainly do this in other countries.

00:43:22 Speaker_03
I mean, we don't have to educate people on the long history of interventionist foreign policy, where we have gone in and installed new leaders of countries and organized all kinds of shit. So we do it. And we do it, and we know they do it.

00:43:39 Speaker_03
But isn't it like the cheapest way to do it? Wouldn't it be to do it on social media? And if you did it, why would you do it with one account? Why wouldn't you have a million accounts? I would have a million accounts.

00:43:48 Speaker_03
You just gotta get a computer that keeps making new accounts. And you run a program. It's not the most difficult thing to do.

00:43:54 Speaker_03
For people that know how to actually code operating systems, you don't think there's someone out there that can code a computer program that can operate millions of different Twitter accounts, and you run it through some sort of AI that you've developed, some large language model on things to say about MAGA.

00:44:11 Speaker_03
or things to say about abortion, or things to say about conservatives, or things to say about liberals, and you put a fucking American flag in your little bio, or you put a pronoun thing, he, her, zees, or whatever it is, and then you just flood the internet with fake anger and fake discourse, and you lie about people, and you, anytime there's a post about anything controversial, you insert something in there that gets people even more riled up.

00:44:37 Speaker_03
You could swing the vote in one way or another, especially with fence-sitters, with people that are not sure, like, I don't know, is Trump really the answer?

00:44:47 Speaker_03
And then you get online and you see all this hateful shit, or you might get on a MAGA forum and you go, oh, they are eating cats. he was telling the truth. ABC's biased. And you could swing it one way or the other.

00:45:00 Speaker_03
And I think they're all trying to manipulate it.

00:45:02 Speaker_03
All these foreign governments, and I think internally in the United States, I'm sure there are groups that are doing it too, that are manipulating things in one way or the other in a disingenuous way because it's available.

00:45:14 Speaker_03
And I don't know how to stop it. I think the only way for you to not personally be really

00:45:22 Speaker_03
affected by it is you have to understand that it exists and then you have to Recognize that you know, some of these takes are not even real human beings So instead of saying Jesus Christ people would think that way go maybe not like maybe this isn't maybe there's a few people to think that way but you're being led to believe that it's a huge movement of people

00:45:40 Speaker_03
When it might not be. But the problem is when it, even if it's fake, people are so stupid that even if it's a fake thing that becomes a bit of a movement online with fake, dumb people will jump in there and then it'll become a real thing.

00:45:55 Speaker_03
Like you're aware of the free bleeding movement that 4chan pushed? Yeah, I think I heard of that.

00:46:05 Speaker_05
It became kind of real, didn't it?

00:46:06 Speaker_03
It became real, that's what I'm saying. Or flat Earth is the same thing. It became a joke if people were fucking around at first. We've known the Earth has not been flat for a long ass time. But now that's totally real. Now it's totally real.

00:46:18 Speaker_03
Now there's massive groups of people that think the Earth is flat. Which isn't, I can't. I can't.

00:46:24 Speaker_03
I don't know how that yeah, yeah, you can't but the thing is that's how dumb people are that you can have a fake thing and Say it enough times and enough people jump in and be on board with it And then it becomes a real thing and then you don't even have to like use propaganda anymore These morons are doing it for you The thing that gets me about the flat-earth thing is because I didn't realize that it was a real thing until I don't know a few years ago I did I wrote I posted something about it and

00:46:51 Speaker_05
And all these comments from real people that, what gets me is, well, you have the people that say, yeah, I think the Earth's flat, and that's insane, you're just really stupid.

00:47:01 Speaker_05
But I was more fascinated by the 80% of people who, 80% of the flat Earth crowd, 80% of them, their take was, well, I'm not saying the Earth is flat, But I'm open to it. I'm open to the possibility.

00:47:19 Speaker_05
I get it if you're just completely stupid and you got sucked into this cult thing. But what I don't get is how can you be on the fence about the shape of the Earth?

00:47:31 Speaker_03
Well, it's just people that really are not educated. That's number one. And people that believe that there's a collusion that's so large that all of the space agencies from Japan, from China, from Russia, all of them are liars.

00:47:47 Speaker_03
That all of them are colluding together to hide the true shape of the earth because if we really knew the earth is flat Then we would it would it always is connected to some sort of a bible thing Like that's the firmament and they believe that that we're we're hiding the fact that god is real and somehow there's some Mass conspiracy that all these world governments and every person ever was involved in the space agencies.

00:48:12 Speaker_03
They've all hid from us

00:48:14 Speaker_05
Yeah, and the moon landing, you're not a, you believe in the moon landing, right?

00:48:20 Speaker_03
I used to believe in the moon landing. You don't anymore?

00:48:22 Speaker_03
I had a joke in my act about it, that before COVID, I would have told you vaccines are the most important invention in human history, and after COVID, I'm like, I don't think we went to the moon.

00:48:30 Speaker_03
Yeah, I know that was in your, but do you actually think that? I think there is a less than zero possibility that we did not go to the moon. Oh my gosh. I know. Why do you think we went to the moon?

00:48:39 Speaker_05
Because it's exactly what you just said about, well, there's a lot of reasons, but, The main thing is what you just said about the Earth.

00:48:47 Speaker_05
The vastness of the conspiracy that would be required to fake that, it's so vast that it's just, it's a lot more incredible to believe that we faked it than to believe that we just went, and going to the moon, don't get, it's a massive achievement, but I think the greatest human achievement of all time.

00:49:07 Speaker_05
But even so, to fake it, would he be even more massive?

00:49:11 Speaker_05
Because not only would you need all of these space agencies and all the different whatever people in American institutions to be colluding, but you'd also need foreign governments, including adversarial foreign governments, who at this point certainly would know we faked it,

00:49:25 Speaker_05
And for some reason haven't blown the lid on it. So they're they're letting us like take this achievement that they know, like, why haven't the Russians come out and say those things you're saying are true, right?

00:49:35 Speaker_03
I don't I don't argue with any of the things you're saying. But one of the things that I think you have to consider was

00:49:41 Speaker_03
If it's not possible for human beings to safely go through the Van Allen radiation belts and out into deep space without much protection and face the temperatures that are on the surface of the moon, which get up to 250 degrees and 250 degrees below zero in the shadows,

00:50:00 Speaker_03
There's no environment there. It's hostile, beyond belief. Micrometeorites are flying into the moon all the time. They're flying through space all the time.

00:50:09 Speaker_03
We've never had a single biological organism go out into deep space, pass the Van Allen radiation belts, and then come back to Earth and come back alive, except human beings during the Apollo missions.

00:50:21 Speaker_03
Every single space station mission, every single space shuttle mission, All of them are inside 350 miles from the Earth's surface. The only time human beings have ever been past that and through the Van Allen radiation belts was the Apollo missions.

00:50:36 Speaker_03
And we were the only humans that were ever able to do that. The Russians never figured out how to do it. No one else figured out how to do it but the Apollo astronauts. And we did it seven times, six successfully, from 1969 to 1972.

00:50:50 Speaker_03
If you said to me, do you think that they could fake the moon landing today? I would say no. I would say no, no, no, no. People are going to be able to track it. It's very easy. They have satellites. They're going to know everything.

00:51:04 Speaker_03
But in 1969, the technology was so crude that when they first showed the Apollo 11 landing, They didn't even show a direct feed to the networks. So like if you're on CBS News, you don't get a direct feed.

00:51:18 Speaker_03
What you do is you point a camera at a projection screen. So that's why the film looks so shitty. The camera is pointed to a projection screen where you see the astronauts jumping around on the moon.

00:51:29 Speaker_03
And you see this weird, grainy, third generation image, right? We did it and we have never done it since and we've always said we're gonna do it and no one's ever even come close No one's ever even gone into deep space since 1972.

00:51:45 Speaker_03
We also haven't been trying We haven't been trying but we always talk about going back and including Herbert Walker Bush talked about going back George W. Talked about going back. They all talk about going back, but nobody ever gets anywhere. I

00:51:59 Speaker_03
Well, I think that's because we lost the spirit and hunger for discovery. We didn't just lose that. We lost all the technology from the Saturn V rocket. They don't even have that anymore. In fact, they don't even have the original film.

00:52:11 Speaker_03
They erased all the original footage of the Apollo missions. So you just have copies of everything.

00:52:16 Speaker_05
You could develop the technology again. You can do all that.

00:52:19 Speaker_03
Sure you could. If you can get through the Van Allen radiation belts into deep space with human beings and have them safely come back.

00:52:26 Speaker_05
But I think what you're describing to me, all that does is highlight how incredible the achievement was.

00:52:32 Speaker_03
If they did it.

00:52:33 Speaker_05
Right.

00:52:33 Speaker_03
If they did it.

00:52:34 Speaker_05
Well, here's the main point. There's no evidence, because saying that it was a hoax is an assertion of, it's not, you're not just denying an event, you're asserting a whole other event that you say happened instead.

00:52:50 Speaker_05
And there is evidence that we went to the moon. Now, someone who's a skeptic might say it's not enough evidence or it's not good evidence.

00:52:59 Speaker_05
There's like evidence, there's eyewitness, there's people that went and came back and told us, there's footage, there's a lot, there is evidence. But there's no evidence of the hoax. No one has come and said, here's my affirmative,

00:53:11 Speaker_05
evidence that this hoax happened, it's never happened, as far as I'm aware. No one's ever provided that evidence.

00:53:19 Speaker_03
I see what you're trying to say. The evidence that they went to the moon, there's a bunch, right? There's moon rocks, that's one. There's lunar reflectors that they placed on the moon, that's another. And there's a couple problems with those.

00:53:34 Speaker_03
First of all, the Soviets put laser reflectors on the moon as well. And also, the moon itself, in many places where you shine lasers on it, it bounces back by itself.

00:53:46 Speaker_03
The reflective quality of the moon, the reason why the moon is so bright and white in the sky when the sun hits it, there's a certain amount of, you get a certain amount of bounce back off of different things with lasers.

00:53:58 Speaker_03
There's some photographs that are interesting. What was it was the India? What was the one where they got the most high-resolution photos of the lander?

00:54:06 Speaker_03
Wikipedia right now of all third-party evidence of the Apollo mission one of the things that's interesting is they gave a moon rock to Was it a prime minister of Holland? Is that what it was? Which one was the moon rock?

00:54:20 Speaker_03
They gave that turned out to be petrified wood and So the Apollo astronauts gave a moon rock to some foreign dignitary, and it turned out to be a piece of petrified wood.

00:54:31 Speaker_03
They do have samples of moon rocks that came from the moon, but we also have those on Earth. In fact, Wernher von Braun in 1968, I believe, went to Antarctica. There's all these photographs of him in Antarctica.

00:54:45 Speaker_03
Antarctica is a great place to take moon rocks because Antarctica is just just gigantic sheet of white and you can spot the meteorites in the ground So this is the photo and this is from what what is this from?

00:54:58 Speaker_03
What is the so this is an India India Indian space research organizations I don't know how to say that word, Chandrayaan-2 orbiter captured images of NASA's Apollo 11 and 12 landing sites and lunar modules from 100-kilometer altitude.

00:55:17 Speaker_03
Apollo 12 image, astronaut boots tracks are still even visible. Due to the recent interest in another post I shared, decided to download and view the raw imagery. So that looks like there's some kind of thing on the moon. Pretty good evidence.

00:55:32 Speaker_03
It is evidence that something's on the moon. It's not evidence that human beings went to the moon. See, we have things that are on the moon. We have things on Mars right now. We had things that were, we'd shot things into space for sure.

00:55:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, but it's evidence.

00:55:45 Speaker_03
It's not proof in and of itself, but it is evidence. Listen, I'm not saying we didn't go to the moon. What I'm saying is the subject is complex and it's not even a little complex. It's really complex.

00:55:55 Speaker_03
There's a documentary called The Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon. This guy Bart Sibrell, he's been obsessed, he was a guest on the show too, been obsessed about this his whole life and absolutely believes that we never went to the moon.

00:56:05 Speaker_03
And there's enough shit that you go, okay, if he's right about any of these things, it's weird.

00:56:12 Speaker_03
One of the things was some of the photographs of the moon, they ran through one of those AI detectors that can tell you whether or not something's false or artificially generated.

00:56:22 Speaker_03
And it showed different images from, I think it was a Chinese satellite of the moon. They said this is legitimate. But then it got to these Apollo images and they said these have been doctored. This AI program.

00:56:35 Speaker_05
All the images or a few of them? A few of them. But then other ones were found to be authentic.

00:56:39 Speaker_03
I don't think so. I think they only ran a few images through. See if you can find those, Jamie. Find what they did. Again, this is not saying that we didn't go to the moon.

00:56:47 Speaker_03
It could be, and this was a fact with the Gemini 15 program, where Michael Collins, there was a photograph of Michael Collins that they took in one of his

00:56:58 Speaker_03
one of his training exercises where he had, uh, you know, those, those packs that they put on where they can move around while they're doing moon walks or not moonwalk spacewalks outside of a, where they're connected by a tether.

00:57:11 Speaker_03
And he was like in this harness and manipulating this device. And what they had done is taken a photograph of him training. And then someone, probably some overzealous PR person had taken that photograph and then blacked out the background and pat,

00:57:28 Speaker_03
tried to pass it off as a really clear photograph of him out there on a spacewalk, which is probably very difficult to get, right? You'd have to have another person at the camera frame it, right? They had this photo, they're like, look, he did it.

00:57:40 Speaker_03
Let's just pass this off as the real thing. Which is, you know, you're also talking about the Nixon administration, where they were just full of shit constantly.

00:57:48 Speaker_00
If you remember, this is where he tried to claim it was from, which is Russian video.

00:57:52 Speaker_03
Yeah. So there's different video where they ran it through, and they said it was real, and it wasn't a Chinese program, but when they ran the American ones, the American images, they said that they were doctored.

00:58:06 Speaker_03
Again, it doesn't mean that we didn't go to the moon, but it does mean, okay, there's that. That's weird. Have you ever seen the Apollo 11 post-flight press conference?

00:58:16 Speaker_03
Yeah, it looks like a hostage video looks like a bunch of guys who don't want to be there They look real fucking nervous, and they look real deceptive if you watch that video.

00:58:24 Speaker_05
It's weird well But I think that's just that's the temperament it requires to do something like that could be it's basically It's almost suicidal to go to the right And so you have to be like not barely even a human Psychologically to do it.

00:58:39 Speaker_05
So I don't so that to me is just like and they just went through this whole experience But who knows what that does to the human psyche? To even just like be in the vastness of space even on the space station I can't I feel like that would change me.

00:58:52 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah person, but not necessarily for the best.

00:58:54 Speaker_03
I Well, there's actually a psychological condition that they talk about, this sort of understanding that we're all connected.

00:59:01 Speaker_03
It's akin to a religious experience that many astronauts get when they go up to the space station and look down at the Earth and go, oh my God, what are we doing? We're all together in this thing and we're so alone in the universe.

00:59:12 Speaker_03
And for us to be fighting over these trivial differences and these stupid lines in the dirt that we draw when we are just clinging to this ball in the middle of everything.

00:59:22 Speaker_05
So then what would you say, or someone who is a full-on believer. Not a full-on believer. Someone who is a full-on believer in the moon hoax, what would they say to my other point that there is evidence we went to the moon.

00:59:37 Speaker_05
You can try to nitpick the evidence. There is zero evidence of a hoax, because that's a whole other event that would have had to have happened. There is no evidence at all, not one sliver of evidence ever, of that hoax having ever happened.

00:59:52 Speaker_03
But I think that's a weird way to frame it, right? Is there evidence of a hoax of the JFK assassination that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone? Do you think there's evidence? Well, but the event itself being that JFK was killed happened.

01:00:07 Speaker_03
Right, but that's not the conspiracy. So the conspiracy is, did he act alone? And is there evidence that he didn't act alone? What do you think?

01:00:16 Speaker_05
I'm very skeptical that he acted alone.

01:00:19 Speaker_03
Yeah, right, but I don't know exactly what happened. Nobody does exactly Same exact perspective. Same exact perspective about this moon thing. It may have happened, but this was a time of deep deception in the American world.

01:00:35 Speaker_03
This is a time after Operation Northwoods. This is a time after the Kennedy assassination. This is a time, I mean, this is a weird fucking shaky time in terms of propaganda. This is after Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex.

01:00:49 Speaker_03
This is like, there was a lot of deception. Gulf of Tonkin incident. There's a lot of open deception. that the American people were being subject to. And then there's this Cold War between us and Russia, this space war for superiority.

01:01:03 Speaker_03
We wanted it so bad, we brought in Nazis.

01:01:05 Speaker_05
But I mean, the JFK is an interesting example. But because yes, there are things that I'm skeptical of that are claimed that I don't really have evidence that the thing didn't happen or that it didn't happen the way they say, but I'm still skeptical.

01:01:17 Speaker_05
So I get that. But it feels different to me because the JFK assassination did happen. The question is, how did it happen?

01:01:25 Speaker_05
But if we're going to assert that a major historical event probably the greatest the most significant historical event in history over one of them Did not happen at all No one did it Then like I said, that's so what you're actually claiming.

01:01:39 Speaker_05
Is that some other thing this this They went somewhere and they pulled off this hoax and they planned it and they did like an event happened where they were faking it right and so what I would want to see is

01:01:51 Speaker_05
Has anybody come out, any whistleblower, ever to say, hey, I was involved in the shoot, or I'm in Hollywood, I talked to a guy who was there.

01:02:01 Speaker_03
That's not even evidence. Real evidence would be some sort of documentation, some sort of a way to go over, like, There's a binary code that shows the distance between the Earth and the lunar module at every stage of the journey. But that's missing.

01:02:21 Speaker_03
That stuff's missing. All the tracking data, they can't find it. All the original footage is missing. And that could just be people are really bad with historical items. That's possible. But to say that

01:02:33 Speaker_03
faking the moon landing would be a bigger achievement than actually going to the moon. I would say only if people could actually go to the moon. So here's the question.

01:02:44 Speaker_03
Can we really, everyone wants to dismiss it, can we really send a biological entity into space, go through that radiation, which is thick, covering the earth, and have it come back alive? Well, supposedly,

01:03:00 Speaker_03
This is the only time people had done it, and supposedly the way they did it was by going through the top area of the Earth, where the Van Allen radiation belts, it's kind of like a donut that covers the Earth.

01:03:13 Speaker_03
It's not uniform, and there's an area at the top where you can go out. But according to Bart Sabrell, they didn't go that way, because he would have had to launch from Antarctica to do that.

01:03:22 Speaker_03
It's not really possible that that happened, that they went that way. So he thinks that if they did go through that, there is no other examples of living things that have done that and come back alive. And they've known that this is an issue.

01:03:38 Speaker_03
They've known that this Van Allen radiation belt, which is this band of heavy radiation that covers the earth and protects us. They've known that it's out there because they tried to blow it up once.

01:03:49 Speaker_03
There was a thing called Operation Starfish Prime, where they launched one of several nuclear bombs into the radiation belt to try to blow a hole through it. And unfortunately- When did that happen? Sixty... was it 67 maybe? It was Starfish Prime.

01:04:10 Speaker_03
But it did the opposite effect. Why did they do that?

01:04:12 Speaker_03
Just for they wanted to see what happens and giggles Well, they were they had so much power and you know, you've got nuclear bombs and you can't blow people up, but you're still doing studies So they're doing tests all throughout, Nevada And I mean that's what killed John Wayne John Wayne got cancer because he was working on a set doing a Western right next to where they were blowing up nuclear bombs the like 200 people on his

01:04:33 Speaker_03
on the set got cancer. Starfish Prime, high altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States, a joint effort of the Atomic Energy Commission and the Defense Atomic Support Agency, July 9th, 1962. So this is like while Kennedy was in office.

01:04:47 Speaker_03
They were trying to figure out how to, we will get to the moon, not in this decade, but in the other, or whatever he said.

01:04:54 Speaker_03
High-altitude nuclear test so the thing you did Unfortunately was it supercharged the bands and it made it much have much more radiation Not only that it it blew out power in some parts of Hawaii.

01:05:09 Speaker_03
I think I think it cooked It's cooked a few satellites, right? We talked about this the other day. It cooked a few satellites.

01:05:16 Speaker_05
Okay, so can I ask this though? Do we have examples? We're saying well, we don't know if a human can go through the right I would say, well, we do know because they did.

01:05:27 Speaker_03
If they did. Well. But listen, we know they sent people into near-Earth orbit. That's a fact.

01:05:34 Speaker_05
We know that- Well, how do we know that if we don't know, I mean, maybe there's space stations- Because we actually can see that.

01:05:39 Speaker_03
We can see where they launched. You can follow the trajectory. You can know about the propulsion units that they used. You know about what they were trying to accomplish. And you can watch it.

01:05:48 Speaker_05
But my question is, have we tried to send humans through the radiation belt and not been able to? Has that happened?

01:05:56 Speaker_03
They never even tried that. They just did it. Right. That's what's even crazier.

01:06:02 Speaker_05
So how do we know they did it?

01:06:03 Speaker_03
The last time they did it was 1972. You don't think that's a little weird? Not really. No, no, no, listen, listen. Even if they did go to the moon, let's say, I'll say they went to the moon. It's fucking weird.

01:06:19 Speaker_03
Everything from 1969 is easier, cheaper, and faster to reproduce today, except the moon landing, except space travel. I just don't think there's a will. But we thought, what?

01:06:28 Speaker_05
I don't think there's a will.

01:06:29 Speaker_03
Do you know how much fucking resources there is on the moon? Do you know how many valuable minerals are on the moon and trillions of dollars of things that are very difficult to find in the United States are on the moon?

01:06:38 Speaker_05
I don't think the people, The 1960s the American people care deeply about going to the moon.

01:06:44 Speaker_03
I don't think that these days Most I think we should care about that, but most people don't care about if we found out that we didn't have to dig for Lithium that we could just go to the moon and pull giant chunks of it out and not have slave labor And no one has to feel bad about using your iPhone You don't think that they would do that

01:07:05 Speaker_03
Of course they would do that, if they could. If you could have a mining station on the moon, no problem at all, totally safe, of course they would do that. It only takes two weeks to get there.

01:07:16 Speaker_03
People mine in northern territories, like people mine in Canada in these horrible conditions, fucking freezing cold out.

01:07:24 Speaker_05
But it probably takes a lot of time to get to a point where you can do that consistently.

01:07:28 Speaker_03
Right, but it's so valuable. The idea that they wouldn't do that and they haven't done anything even remotely close to that since 1972 is weird. I agree that it's...

01:07:40 Speaker_05
I mean, weird makes it sound necessarily nefarious. I think it's- No, just weird.

01:07:46 Speaker_03
It's very unusual. It's unusual technologically. It's incongruent. It's incongruent with technological progression. We have that with everything else. Everything else.

01:07:55 Speaker_03
Phones are in your fucking pocket now, and they have more computing power than the entire cluster that they used to launch the Apollo program. The Apollo program was a fucking giant room full of computers.

01:08:08 Speaker_03
Your phone is significantly more powerful than that. Everything else got better, except that. We thought that people were going to be going to space all the time. You ever watch that TV show Space 1999 when you were a kid? No. You're younger than me.

01:08:20 Speaker_03
There was a stupid show called Space 1999, and they thought, boy, by 1999, we'll be flying around in spaceships and people will be living on the moon.

01:08:27 Speaker_03
Every time they've done, like, in the past, like, after the moon landings, every time they did any sort of, like, science fiction movie, it always involved, like, colonies already established on the moon and on Mars and people traveling, because we thought that was going to happen.

01:08:43 Speaker_03
Orville and Wilbur Wright, right? Think about the launch of the first airplane. And then the launch of the Apollo program, it's only like 60 years. It's kind of crazy.

01:08:54 Speaker_03
The launch of the first airplane ever and dropping nuclear bombs out of an airplane is only like, what is it, 50 years? I think it's something like, something kooky. 50, 60 years. That's nuts. But then now you have supersonic jets, like 100 years later.

01:09:12 Speaker_03
Now you have insane capabilities of like Air Force fighter jets. unbelievable power and maneuverability far beyond anything anybody would have possibly imagined when Earl or Orville and Wilbur had that stupid fucking bird looking flimsy thing.

01:09:29 Speaker_03
So everything progresses technologically except...

01:09:33 Speaker_05
Well, but here's what I would say to that.

01:09:35 Speaker_01
Except traveling to other planets.

01:09:37 Speaker_05
I would say two things. Number one, I think that it just, it does take, yeah, we're kind of spoiled by the fact that there was this burst of incredible technological advancements.

01:09:47 Speaker_03
In everything. Right. In automobiles.

01:09:49 Speaker_05
It doesn't necessarily, not every facet of technology is going to continue at that pace forever into an infinity. So I think it does take

01:09:58 Speaker_05
Especially if you take a historical perspective, a longer-term historical perspective, it just takes a while to get from one thing to the next. It hasn't even been that long. I mean, 1969 was not that long ago from the historical perspective.

01:10:11 Speaker_05
And especially if you want to do the next thing, I mean, what's the next thing? The next thing is to go to Mars, most people agree. That's so much far exponentially farther away and harder to do. Sure.

01:10:23 Speaker_05
And so if that takes if it takes decades more to figure out how to do that, that doesn't seem that crazy to me. And the second thing I'll say is that I do think I get your point about resources on the moon. There's a reason to go back. I agree. You know.

01:10:36 Speaker_05
Practically speaking, but it's just true that that it requires a society that deeply values Exploration for its own sake and is willing to make the sacrifices is willing to Send people off to do things just for the sake of exploration knowing that they might die.

01:10:54 Speaker_05
I think we have almost no appetite for that now that maybe the Challenger explosion was you could point to that as as the time when we sort of just We have no appetite for people. We don't want people to die for this anymore.

01:11:08 Speaker_03
I see what you're saying. Here's the problem with what you're saying. The American people don't get a say in whether or not we do things. They don't get a say in whether or not we make a space shuttle.

01:11:18 Speaker_03
They don't get to decide whether or not we establish a new space station. No one talks about it. They just do it. We barely get a say in how much money goes to Ukraine.

01:11:29 Speaker_05
But it's got to be funded.

01:11:30 Speaker_03
Right. But how much is funded to go to Ukraine? All of a sudden, they add $175 billion-plus to fund this proxy war. Who decided that? It wasn't the American people, right?

01:11:42 Speaker_05
It wasn't, but politicians are the ones who decided. People vote for those politicians. And unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans who are basically okay with sending money to Ukraine, which they shouldn't be.

01:11:51 Speaker_03
It's insane. I agree with you. But what my point is, is that if you had a skillful politician who got on television and explained that we have found a solution to all of our energy problems, and it's mining on the moon.

01:12:04 Speaker_03
And through this Mining on the Moon, we are going to increase the overall way of life for every single human being on America's soil. We are going to raise everybody above the poverty level.

01:12:18 Speaker_03
There'll be no impoverished people, because we have literally found trillions of dollars in very, very valuable minerals.

01:12:26 Speaker_03
And by using our United States taxpayer funds to fund this program and to finance it, we are going to allow the entire country to share in some of this wealth.

01:12:37 Speaker_03
And we're going to change energy distribution and consumption in this country in an incredible way. It's going to be beneficial to everybody. And it's going to make a bunch of people really rich, too.

01:12:46 Speaker_03
But it's going to change the quality of life for every person in this country. And this is how we're going to do it. Everybody would be on board.

01:12:53 Speaker_05
Yeah, but nobody's made that case, really.

01:12:55 Speaker_03
Right, but you could make that case with the amount of minerals and the amount of valuable resources you can get, not just from the moon, but also from mining asteroids, which they're attempting to do now.

01:13:05 Speaker_03
If you can get people out there, if you really can get people out there. So here's the question. If you couldn't do it, if they knew they couldn't do it, but they wanted to show that they could do it, could they Compartmentalize things.

01:13:20 Speaker_03
Could they feed a computer program that is instead of the actual binary data that shows the distance between the lunar module and the surface of the earth at any given time? Could they just calculate that out with computers? Of course they could.

01:13:34 Speaker_03
Yeah, that's possible.

01:13:35 Speaker_03
Could they, if they couldn't get human beings into deep space and have them come back alive because they couldn't figure out a way to get through the Van Allen radiation belts and survive micrometeors and all the other shit that you deal with, could they

01:13:46 Speaker_03
get enough people to shut the fuck up because it's in the best interest of national security. Of course they could, especially in 1969. People were fucking terrified. They had just killed the president six years earlier.

01:13:58 Speaker_03
People were absolutely terrified of getting

01:14:02 Speaker_03
Under the sights of the intelligence agencies, and if you have top-secret clearance if you're involved in some sort of a project Look at the Manhattan Project people kept their fucking mouth shut they knew they had they were working on something of importance that was above and beyond their need to yap about shit and

01:14:20 Speaker_05
But for the moon landing, you would need way more people involved, more institutions.

01:14:23 Speaker_03
I don't know if you would, because you actually have a real space program. So the space program's not fake, right? So let's just assume I'm a non-believer. I would tell you that the space program was absolutely real.

01:14:34 Speaker_03
The Saturn V rocket was absolutely real. The modules, the way they were able to parachute down into the ocean, 100% real. They did go into space. But how far did they go? This is the real question.

01:14:48 Speaker_03
Sybril the guy who made this documentary he asserts that they went somewhere into Earth's orbit like, you know in space but not through the Van Allen radiation belt radiation belts and not to the surface of the moon and back and that they had video footage that they had done in some Scenario some people think it's in the Nevada desert Who knows what it is?

01:15:11 Speaker_03
but they had this footage of people bouncing around and they said they got it on the moon and then they brought this back and

01:15:17 Speaker_05
Does he have any evidence of that event occurring? Would he say, well, I know they only went so far and came back because of this?

01:15:27 Speaker_03
Well, he has a bunch of different things. And one of them is the one that's very hotly debated. And it's the different light sources in the photographs. So a lot of the photographs from the surface of the moon have intersecting shadows.

01:15:42 Speaker_03
So you have a shadow that's going this way and another shadow that's going that way, indicating more than one light source, or a close-by light source that's coming in, not something that's millions of miles away like the sun. There's those.

01:15:55 Speaker_03
There's the photographs. There's the photographs that run through AI. He has this other video of what looks like them

01:16:02 Speaker_03
filming the Earth through one of the round portal windows with everything blacked out in the cabin, and then they pull down the things that were blocking off the other light sources, and the cabin floods with light, and it looks like they're in near-Earth orbit.

01:16:18 Speaker_03
And it's very confusing. Because you're like, well, what is that video? What exactly is going on there?

01:16:23 Speaker_03
Because if they really are in deep space, and they really are filming this small image of the Earth, because that's all they can see from 200,000 miles out, well, why, when they take those things down, does it look like the whole cabin is filled with light?

01:16:39 Speaker_03
Why does it look exactly like they're in near-Earth orbit? Have you ever seen it? You want to see it? Sure. For shits and giggles. Yeah, because we're in the middle of this stupid conversation. It's a fun one.

01:16:54 Speaker_03
It's one of the most fun of all conspiracy theories. Because if they did it, wow. First of all, if they killed the president, wow. And it seems like they kind of did that. So if they did this too, what else did they do?

01:17:10 Speaker_03
What other hoaxes were played on the American people if this is real? That's why it's fun. I'm not saying it's real, but it is a fun one. It's not as simple as the earth is flat. That's a stupid one. But this is a fun one.

01:17:23 Speaker_03
This is a fun one because you're dealing with the kind of power with complete control over the media, complete control over newspapers and what they reported, the interest of national security, the Cold War with Russia, the space war with Russia.

01:17:40 Speaker_03
We wanted it so bad, we brought in some of the most heinous human beings that have ever lived to run our NASA program.

01:17:47 Speaker_05
Yeah. It's not as dumb as Flat Earth, but to me it's in the vein of Sandy Hook was a hoax.

01:17:57 Speaker_03
No, no, no.

01:17:58 Speaker_05
That's heinous.

01:18:00 Speaker_03
Not morally. Let me show you the video. Jamie, you got that? Funny thing happened on the way to the moon. I know, but I can't. Is he hiding it? I know it's available.

01:18:10 Speaker_00
Sure, sure. I have to figure out exactly what the video is I'm looking for.

01:18:16 Speaker_03
Proof.

01:18:17 Speaker_00
I know. I'm digging through. I pick a video. I try to find it. It's not in there. I have to find another video. It's not like, unless I know the exact name of the video, it takes a second.

01:18:26 Speaker_03
OK, you'll find it. He'll find it once he does. Again, I'm not saying we didn't go. I'm saying this is a fun one, and it's a weird one.

01:18:34 Speaker_05
There's a lot of weirdness to it. Isn't it similar? OK, because a lot of this comes from it's such a it's it's such an incredible feat that's so difficult to do that it's hard to believe anyone actually did it. Sure.

01:18:47 Speaker_05
Which I can understand that mentality. But the thing is, you can go back in history.

01:18:53 Speaker_05
And you can look at, for the sake of discovery and exploration, you can look at what other men have done hundreds of years ago that arguably is more impressive than going to the moon. Like what? I mean, you name it.

01:19:08 Speaker_05
Take any famous explorer from the 1500s to the 1800s, and whether it's Magellan or James Cook or Christopher Columbus or any of them,

01:19:21 Speaker_05
what they were able to do navigating this vast ocean going to play having no modern technology at all being able to go from where their starting point hit some little tiny island somewhere and then go around and navigating a world that they don't even know what it looks like they have no maps they have no gps they have nothing at all i cannot conceive of

01:19:41 Speaker_05
how they could have ever done that.

01:19:43 Speaker_05
I don't know how in the world, not knowing what the world looks like, having no map, having no GPS, having no modern navigation whatsoever, how in the world could you possibly get on a ship, launching out of France or Portugal or wherever, and make it anywhere across the ocean?

01:19:58 Speaker_05
I don't know how you could do it.

01:20:00 Speaker_03
It's incredible. But we know that it happened. Okay. It's incredible. But it doesn't compare, because they do it now easily. So anybody can get in a ship right now and travel.

01:20:11 Speaker_03
You can get in a small boat that you have enough resources, and you have enough gas, and you can travel through these routes. You can do it. It took them hundreds of years, though. But you can do it right now. I could. So it's way easier to do now, right?

01:20:23 Speaker_03
So it's something that they did that's incredible, no doubt, no argument, but something that could be reproduced today easily, or at least possibly. I wouldn't say easily. It's a task.

01:20:34 Speaker_05
But it also took centuries to get to the point where it could be easily

01:20:37 Speaker_03
But it got better right after each one did it because they had maps now. And then they also used their sextants and they understood constellations in a way that most people don't today.

01:20:47 Speaker_03
And sextants, if you actually use them correctly and you understand which way the tides go and which way the water currents are going, which way the flow was happening. They had a deep understanding of the currents of the earth.

01:20:59 Speaker_03
They knew travel lanes, and they knew which ways they could go with ships. So applying that to the open ocean, applying that to these continents they weren't even sure were there, was very iffy, very dangerous, very courageous. But once they did it,

01:21:16 Speaker_03
then everybody else could do it easier. And then they started doing it better and better, and then people started coming to America, and then blah blah blah blah blah, and now here we are. And now anybody can get in a boat.

01:21:24 Speaker_03
Anybody with enough resources can have a boat that can travel those routes. No one can just say, I want to go to the moon today and get their private moon craft and fucking shoot off into the atmosphere and land on the moon.

01:21:39 Speaker_03
So no one's done that since 1969. That's a recent occurrence in terms of human history, but not technologically. The technology from 1969, it's like cave people shit compared to what we have today. So you really can't compare.

01:21:55 Speaker_03
the courageous, amazing deeds of these early explorers, because what they did was absolutely fantastic, but they left a clear record of how to do it, and then each person improved upon it, and now it's easy to do. The spacecraft travel is not.

01:22:10 Speaker_03
There's nothing like that.

01:22:12 Speaker_05
I would say 100 years from now, check in. Perhaps. Maybe. Christopher Columbus was 300 years before James Cook, I think. The technology they were using was not that different. It was pretty similar.

01:22:24 Speaker_03
It didn't progress that fast. Well, they had maps. They had maps and they had sextants and they had a detailed, at least crude, understanding of the shape of certain continents. Like there's maps from the 1500s, there's maps from before that.

01:22:42 Speaker_03
There's plenty of maps that are rough estimates and pretty good job actually. The cartographers back then were astonishingly good because it was so valuable to be good at that. Now this is the footage. So let's just watch this.

01:22:56 Speaker_03
So this is Neil Armstrong talking to Houston. So give me some volume. Why is that? We're not watching the movie. All right. So let's do this.

01:23:09 Speaker_03
Let's just, he and I will watch it with the sound on and we'll tell everybody else to just go to the website or go to the YouTube video. I don't, so we don't get pulled off of YouTube. We'll watch it and we won't say anything.

01:23:21 Speaker_03
And then we'll, after it's over, we'll come back. So play it. Cause I want them to hear it. That's enough. So what do you think about that footage?

01:23:32 Speaker_05
I mean, it's interesting. I'm at a slight disadvantage because I'm going to assume that people have addressed some of those issues. and have given responses to it, I'm going to assume.

01:23:47 Speaker_05
Like if I went to YouTube right now and looked up that video debunked, people have probably done that.

01:23:52 Speaker_03
I'm sure someone has.

01:23:54 Speaker_05
So I don't know what their response would be. So it's interesting. I just don't see it. So to me, I listen to that and I think, well, that's interesting. I look into that to figure out.

01:24:05 Speaker_05
The first thing I want to know is, OK, here's your claim, the claim they're making. I need to know what is the official narrative, let's say. How do they respond to that? Because I know they do. Right. So I need to know that.

01:24:17 Speaker_03
Well, here's two problems with that video. One, the English accent. Those motherfuckers. If they want to sell you something on late night TV, they use an English accent because it makes someone look more intelligent, more sophisticated.

01:24:28 Speaker_03
The crescent insert. Why would they fake any of it? And then they got you with the music. The music is manipulative. So they're manipulating you in two ways. They're manipulating you with the woman's voice, and they're manipulating you with the music.

01:24:45 Speaker_03
So you're saying they are manipulating you with the music. I'm saying they most certainly are manipulating you in that video. That video is not just the video. So what I would rather have is just the video and watch that. But we do get to see them say,

01:24:59 Speaker_03
the distance they are from the Earth. Here's a couple of questions, right? What does it look like? What is the shine from the Earth from 200,000 miles out?

01:25:10 Speaker_03
And maybe in order to be able to film that, you have to block off the light from all those other windows, because even though it's 200,000 miles out,

01:25:19 Speaker_03
Just like the moon lights up the sky on a night where there's a full moon and you're outside, you can see. Like a really good full moon with a clear sky, you can see the ground. It lights it up.

01:25:31 Speaker_03
And the moon is one quarter of the Earth's size, and the moon is 250 plus thousand miles away. So if something is four times bigger, than the Moon, and the blue from the Earth's oceans, like when you see it from the space station, it is powerful.

01:25:49 Speaker_03
I mean, it is a potent reflector of sunlight. So you could say that he's just ignorant about how much reflection you would get from the surface of the Earth from 200,000 miles away, and even though

01:26:03 Speaker_03
They are filming it by blocking out all the lights and filming it through this window. That actually is the Earth. That's actually what it looks like when you're in deep space. You could say that too. You just don't know.

01:26:15 Speaker_03
And it's hard to figure out what's what. It's hard to figure out what's what. But when you see a video like that, you just go, hmm, okay, what is that? And I don't think it's impossible to fake people going to the moon. I think it'd be very difficult.

01:26:34 Speaker_03
It would require a lot of people to be on board. But I also think it could be compartmentalized.

01:26:39 Speaker_03
The people that make the rockets, what you're doing is you're making a specific part, and this guy's making another part, and you have the engineers put this thing together, and you launch this thing into space.

01:26:50 Speaker_03
The people that would have to know are the people that are actually charting the trajectory

01:26:54 Speaker_03
of the Apollo mission, the people that are actually talking to the astronauts and explaining to them what to say during the press conference, the people that are engineering the whole thing.

01:27:05 Speaker_03
And you could probably get away with doing something like that with a few hundred people. And you could get a few hundred people of high-ranking people that have top-secret clearance keep their mouth shut.

01:27:15 Speaker_05
You could. I would just need some kind of solid evidence of that to believe that's true. Yeah, me too. There are some things that we call conspiracy theories that I think are clearly true.

01:27:29 Speaker_05
There are some things that we call conspiracy theories that I think are maybe true. But there are conspiracy theories that, to me, are just that. They're not even theories, really. They're just kind of like fanciful projections.

01:27:48 Speaker_05
And the ones that I don't find convincing are where they usually start with, There's a so-called official narrative of a thing that happened. There's a couple of things about what actually happened that are kind of weird.

01:28:03 Speaker_05
And we look at that and go, that's a little bit weird. And then the conspiracy theorists, in that case, they come in and they find these little tiny cracks, if you want to call it, and then inside the cracks, they shove this whole, like,

01:28:15 Speaker_05
Hollywood cinematic narrative that they have created to explain what's actually like a pretty tiny crack You don't need this whole thing to explain that so with the moon thing.

01:28:26 Speaker_05
I mean one of the first Weird aspects of the moon landing that that I think started kind of the conspiracy theories about it was the The flag the fact that the flags moving in the picture and so yeah, it's like when you look at that You don't really understand you look at what that is weird because there's no wind on the moon

01:28:44 Speaker_05
But then you understand that, OK, for example, when you put the flag down, it creates reverberations. It makes the flag move. It's going to move for longer because there's no gravity. So there's an explanation for that.

01:28:58 Speaker_05
But if you're the conspiracy theorist, then you take the flag moving and you just let, you're like, nope, the whole thing is bunk.

01:29:05 Speaker_03
Have you ever seen the video footage of the astronaut hopping by the flag and the breeze of him hopping by makes the flag wiggle? He's not he doesn't touch the flag at all. The flag is completely stationary. And the astronaut hops by the flag.

01:29:20 Speaker_03
And as he hops by the flag, the flag wiggles.

01:29:23 Speaker_05
Okay, are we saying that wouldn't happen on it?

01:29:25 Speaker_03
No, it wouldn't. There's no air.

01:29:28 Speaker_05
Yeah, OK. I haven't seen that.

01:29:30 Speaker_03
I'll show it to you. It's weird. Listen, what you're saying is entirely correct. Everything you're saying is entirely reasonable and correct if they actually can get through the Van Allen radiation belts. If they can, this is stupid.

01:29:45 Speaker_03
This whole thing's stupid. But if they can't really do that, and they never have done that, and the only time they say they've done that is these missions, it gets real weird. And since they haven't done it since then, it gets real weird.

01:29:56 Speaker_03
And it's not just that. There's other video footage. It's not just the one where the guy's hopping by the flag. It's other ones where it looks like they're on wires, where they're being pulled up, where they fall down, they're being yanked up.

01:30:06 Speaker_03
The whole thing is weird. There's a lot of weirdness to the footage. The physics don't line up exactly the same.

01:30:12 Speaker_03
If you go to the early days of the Apollo 11 footage and you look at the difference between when they were playing golf and jumping around the moon, they move different. They cover more distance. It's like, it looks different. They got better at it.

01:30:26 Speaker_03
They get better at filming it. They got better at whatever they're doing. And then there's the other question.

01:30:33 Speaker_03
Maybe they actually did do it, but the cameras weren't able to handle the radiation and the film, which, you know, you wouldn't even be able to send your film through the radar detector at the airport back then because it would get fucked up.

01:30:44 Speaker_03
You'd have to put it aside. Maybe the radiation space fucks up the film. So even though they did do it, they show you recreations or show you these test runs that they did and they film it because the actual film footage is impossible to obtain.

01:30:59 Speaker_03
That's possible, too. Hasselbald, who made the cameras, didn't put any special protection in these cameras. There was nothing about them that was unusual that would be able to withstand that kind of radiation and that kind of heat of deep space.

01:31:13 Speaker_03
Steve, do you have that one where the guy walks by the flag and he hops around and it wiggles?

01:31:19 Speaker_00
We definitely have played it before Plant flag no, that's on it. What did you write astronaut flag? Type in astronaut hops by flag Flag wiggles

01:31:46 Speaker_00
I saw a bunch of videos of people ask like making recreations and seeing if this was even possible, but not the video.

01:31:51 Speaker_03
Astronaut hops by causing a breeze to move the flag. Okay, that's it right there. Click on that. That's it. That's the footage. Okay, so watch. So he's gonna hop by. Okay. See that?

01:32:07 Speaker_05
Yeah, but he could have hit the flag.

01:32:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, but he didn't. Look, look at the distance. Look how far away he is from it. Pull it back again. See where he is? So he's in front. He's way in front of that thing. He hops by and it wiggles. I don't know, he's in the suit. The suit's pretty clunky.

01:32:26 Speaker_03
Yeah, but he's not close to it. Look at the perspective. Let's look at it in slow motion. So watch, he hops by and it just wiggles in the breeze. That's a breeze, dude. So that might not have actually happened on the moon, okay?

01:32:41 Speaker_03
That might be footage that they filmed in the Nevada desert, and the footage they got on the moon got all fucked up, and so they tried to pass that off on people, and they thought no one would know.

01:32:49 Speaker_03
It doesn't necessarily mean we didn't go to the moon, but that does look weird. And it's just not, it's not one thing. If that was the only thing, you'd be like, oh, well, who knows? But there's a lot of them. He could've also, he could've hit it.

01:33:02 Speaker_03
I mean, he's close enough. It's possible.

01:33:04 Speaker_05
It's close enough. It doesn't look like he hit it. It looks like a breeze. Yeah, but then the other part of this is that they, so what, the people that went through all this trouble to fake the moon landing, How would they miss these things?

01:33:15 Speaker_05
That's the other.

01:33:16 Speaker_03
Well, I don't think they thought people would catch it. First of all, you're dealing with a time where there's no VHS tapes. There's no internet, right? So you show it on television once. You get to choose what gets shown and what doesn't get shown.

01:33:27 Speaker_03
You film a bunch of shit. That's how they got that footage of them inside the craft, filming through that circular hole. Because they don't air everything on television, but you have archives.

01:33:36 Speaker_03
So you have all these archives, and these kooks go through the archives, and they find things like that. OK, but that doesn't even mean that that was actual moon footage. That could have been some of the training footage.

01:33:47 Speaker_05
I'll tell you what would convince me to not that it's a fake, but at least would make me open to it.

01:33:53 Speaker_05
One thing that would shake my faith considerably in the moon landing, if Elon Musk were to come out and say, yeah, I don't know about this moon landing thing.

01:34:02 Speaker_05
Then, okay, fine, because, and I'm not saying this is my whole reason for believing it happened, but Elon Musk, first of all, if the moon landing was fake, he knows it was. He knows it was fake. Sure. He's the richest man in the world.

01:34:12 Speaker_05
He's shown zero concern for, you know, propping up official narratives at all. Right. So he's a guy that would know if it's faked, would, there'd be no reason for him to continue that narrative if it was fake.

01:34:26 Speaker_05
In fact, he could even say, you know, they faked it. I'm going to do it for real. I'll be the first one to go to the moon because they faked it.

01:34:32 Speaker_05
And he hasn't said that so I also find that to be pretty compelling the fact that he as someone who would know let's say the problem is that You and I most people that talk about this.

01:34:40 Speaker_05
We have no like direct not access to knowledge about space This is all being given to us by other people So you got to go to people that have actually were working with this stuff mm-hmm and So the fact that he has no time for this Theory at all I also find to be

01:34:58 Speaker_03
persuasive it's good it is persuasive definitely but also he has a contract with NASA and he has to be very careful about what he says and does and for him to say something incredibly insane like we never went to the moon even if he believes it

01:35:12 Speaker_03
That would be a big risk with zero reward, because there's no way to prove, as you've said, there's no way to prove that we didn't go to the moon. And to say that we didn't go to the moon is a kook take. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

01:35:26 Speaker_03
You can say stupid things like that when you're a comedian who's a podcast host.

01:35:29 Speaker_03
You know, but if you are you have contracts with NASA and you run SpaceX and you are legitimately making some of the greatest breakthroughs in space travel that human beings have ever known like what they're doing with those Falcons when they have them land fucking insane insane come back and land I mean we've never been able to do that before and it's all because of Elon and

01:35:49 Speaker_03
I mean, if he really is going to get people to Mars, something has got to be addressed eventually as to, you know, if they do it and they pull it off and it's easy and comfortable, okay, we probably did it in 1969.

01:36:05 Speaker_03
If they go to the moon and there's no problem going through the Van Allen radiation belts with no particular insulation other than what the spaceship had, maybe. Yeah, they probably did it.

01:36:16 Speaker_05
We'll say I don't even the the moon landing hoax idea is it's barely even a kook take anymore.

01:36:22 Speaker_05
I think it is but You're you're probably in the majority with your take on it And when the last time I talked about this publicly I got absolutely Ripped to shreds. I mean, of course it felt like 99% against

01:36:38 Speaker_05
And it's going to happen again in response to this conversation.

01:36:40 Speaker_03
99% against you? Yeah. Against your take. So most people think that we didn't go to the moon? It seems... Maybe that's your followers, bro. I think if you get the overall internet, it would go the other way.

01:36:52 Speaker_03
The overall internet, most people would think you're a kook for even entertaining the idea that we never went to the moon.

01:36:59 Speaker_05
Maybe but it seems like it's it's shifting drastically and a lot of that is people just have lost all faith in our institutions Which I understand yes, so people are I mean that was kind of the point of your bit that is people are Once you see that this is a lie.

01:37:11 Speaker_05
This is a lie. Yeah Exactly that is happening, and I'm totally sympathetic to that part of it I But I just think that the moon landing is, there's a lot of good evidence for it. And also, this is an emotional argument.

01:37:26 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's an American thing.

01:37:28 Speaker_05
It's one of our greatest achievements as Americans. You gotta pry that from my cold dead hands. You gotta really show me something to make me willing to give that up.

01:37:39 Speaker_03
I would tell you that one of our greatest achievements is faking the moon landing. I think it's an amazing achievement. I think it's an amazing achievement.

01:37:49 Speaker_03
It's akin to turning Kamala Harris into the most compelling presidential candidate since Barack Obama. There's things that they can do with propaganda and spin that are truly amazing.

01:37:59 Speaker_03
And watching her become this celebrated character when just a few months ago everybody was upset that she was on the ticket and, oh my God, if Joe Biden dies and she becomes president, people are freaking out.

01:38:09 Speaker_03
Now all of a sudden everybody's like, yes, she should be president.

01:38:13 Speaker_05
That's also wearing off, though. You think so? I don't think so. They were able to make her into a political sensation for about a month. I don't think she has that anymore. I don't think people are

01:38:29 Speaker_05
Because you can hype somebody up, and you can turn them into the next political savior through really good branding. They did that with Obama. But you got to have something. There has to be something. They at least have to have charisma.

01:38:40 Speaker_05
I mean, Obama had charisma. So you at least have to have that. If you have a politician who has charisma, then the media can come in, and they can do the rest. And they can turn you into this.

01:38:48 Speaker_03
Well, she certainly has charisma when she has planned speeches, and she gets to read off a teleprompter, and maybe that thing in her ear. What do you think about that? Do you think that's legit? It could be. You see the company has responded?

01:39:01 Speaker_03
To the yeah, what did they say they said they they definitely didn't deny it And they said it looks very close to like what our devices and I really go to their website It might be on their website it they might have Somebody sent me something And I just looked at it briefly.

01:39:19 Speaker_03
I'm like oh this will probably come up today I wanted it. I want to see it in real time because whatever the website is of the company that makes that thing They've apparently addressed it on the website But is that illegal?

01:39:34 Speaker_03
I don't know if it's illegal, but it's certainly incredibly unethical. Unethical, for sure. But also, if they pulled that off with earrings, like fucking amazing. And it would explain, because she stayed on script really well. Amazingly well.

01:39:49 Speaker_03
Amazingly well. Does it say anything about the presidential debates? The company's definitely responded. Maybe it wasn't their website. Maybe it was social media. What is the name of the company?

01:40:04 Speaker_03
Okay, Google Nova audio earrings response to presidential debate Nova audio earrings response to presidential debates Um, I might have been a troll. That's why I wanted to see it in real time to find out what the fuck it is.

01:40:25 Speaker_03
But see if there's a website where they responded, because I think they did respond. I could find it. I know I saved it. Company says Kamala's earrings strikingly similar to its Bluetooth device. Okay, there it is.

01:40:43 Speaker_03
Strikingly similar to its Bluetooth device offers to make ones for Trump.

01:40:51 Speaker_02
Imagine if Trump starts wearing earrings!

01:40:55 Speaker_03
First of all, that would never work because you can't tell him what to do. Yeah, he would never. He's not going to listen. It's not going to happen. He's free-balling. We do not know whether Mrs. Harris wore one of our products.

01:41:05 Speaker_03
The resemblance is striking, and while our product is not specifically developed for the use at presidential debates, it is nonetheless suited for it. Okay, there you go.

01:41:16 Speaker_03
To ensure a level playing field for both candidates, we are currently developing a male version and will soon be able to offer it to the Trump campaign. The choice of color is a bit challenging, though, as orange does not go well with a lot of colors.

01:41:29 Speaker_03
That company's funny. They're funny. That's a funny company. I would buy their shit bulletproof earrings for Trump.

01:41:41 Speaker_03
Yeah, right Yeah, I mean how crazy is the the conspiracy theory that he didn't actually get shot Did he like cut his ear like a pro wrestler like her?

01:41:51 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's a that's another or that it was shrapnel which to me would make even less sense because yeah It's a very minor injury because she could just got nicked. Uh-huh, but if it's shrapnel you would expect

01:42:02 Speaker_03
you know, marks all over his face. Right. Or not. You know, the thing is shrapnel could be a small piece of shrapnel. You know, shrapnel is not uniform. Right. So if it hits a railing, which apparently there is some shot.

01:42:14 Speaker_03
There's some video footage of because I think there was nine shots fired total.

01:42:18 Speaker_05
Yeah.

01:42:18 Speaker_03
Was that what it was? Something like that. Something crazy like that, though. Trump sustained two centimeter wide gunshot wound to his ear. OK. The thing is, ears heal pretty quick.

01:42:30 Speaker_05
Yeah, in two centimeters. I mean, you can't see it.

01:42:32 Speaker_03
I still have holes from when I got my ears pierced. Oh, yeah, but that's different. That's a hole. This is a scratch. I've gotten my ears fucked up a bunch of times from jujitsu, and they heal pretty quick.

01:42:43 Speaker_03
It's foreheads heal quick, ears heal quick, things around your mouth heal really quick. There's parts of your body that have a lot of blood vessels and they heal pretty quick.

01:42:52 Speaker_03
He's old, which is odd for him not to have a scar, but it's not inconceivable that it could just scratch the surface and that would cause a lot of blood. Like if you get a forehead cut, Forehead cuts are crazy. It just pours blood on your face.

01:43:06 Speaker_03
But if you get a cut on your knee, it doesn't even drip. You have to have a real cut on your knee to get dribbling blood down your shin. The forehead is filled with blood vessels, as I think are the tips of the ears. So I think it would bleed a lot.

01:43:22 Speaker_03
And it might be a minor injury that bleeds a lot. And it could heal in a few days.

01:43:27 Speaker_05
Also, even if he didn't get hit with a bullet, which he did, But if he didn't, it doesn't make a difference. He still got shot at. It doesn't change what happened.

01:43:36 Speaker_03
And people behind him, one guy died and other people got grievously injured. Like terribly injured to the point where it's going to affect them for the rest of their life.

01:43:45 Speaker_05
The more bizarre thing about the shooting is that it's only been two months since it happened. Right? Two months. Or not even two months. It's been like a month and a half. And we've moved on like it never happened.

01:44:00 Speaker_03
Like it never happened in two weeks. In two weeks they stopped talking about it.

01:44:03 Speaker_05
It's had no political impact whatsoever.

01:44:05 Speaker_03
Nuts.

01:44:07 Speaker_05
He got no polling boost from it. Reagan got like 12 points, briefly. Which just shows you the polls are full of shit. Probably. Yeah, full of shit. I mean, they are full of shit.

01:44:17 Speaker_05
But also, it would not shock me if, because we're so easily distracted, if people really did just forget and don't care a week later, two weeks later.

01:44:26 Speaker_03
Well, as long as it's not in the news, and it's not in the news, you don't care about it. Also, there was no press conference, so that's kind of crazy.

01:44:34 Speaker_03
There was no disclosure of all the information about this young man's prior history, what led him to this. They went to his apartment, and it was professionally scrubbed. There was no silverware in his place.

01:44:48 Speaker_03
There's also this bizarre thing where there's, you know how they get ad data where you can track where phones have been? This one phone was going from outside of the FBI office in Washington, D.C. to where this kid is multiple times.

01:45:05 Speaker_03
So, how did this kid get these explosive devices? How did he get up on the roof? How did they not flag him? And you see a guy walking around with a rangefinder a half an hour before the event. That guy is going to jail. Like, what are you talking about?

01:45:19 Speaker_03
There's two reasons for a rangefinder. You're trying to shoot something or you're using it for golf. If you're not playing golf, then you're trying to shoot something. That's the only other reason for a rangefinder. And that was like three hours before.

01:45:32 Speaker_03
Yeah. They knew about that kid. They were aware that he was there. He somehow or another got on the roof with a rifle. The whole thing sucks. It stinks to high heaven. And then they cremate him. He's gone. They get his body.

01:45:46 Speaker_03
Someone snatches his body like five or six days after the event. And 10 days later, he's cremated. The whole thing is nuts. Like, who is this kid? Why did he do this? Why did some 20-year-old kid take shots at the president?

01:45:59 Speaker_05
Why didn't he have a scope? This is one where I'm totally open to conspiracy theories, only because there's not even like an official narrative for it. They basically told us nothing. So we're left to fill in the blanks.

01:46:10 Speaker_03
Not only that, think about how perfect it would have been for a plan to assassinate someone if you do get this lone crazy kid You give him whatever, I mean, there's been no toxicology examination of his body that's been released, right?

01:46:24 Speaker_03
So who knows what the fuck this kid's on. If you're gonna try to convince someone to go shoot the former president, you'd probably dope him up with some crazy shit, right?

01:46:32 Speaker_03
And then that would be in his system, and then it would be like, be able to trace, okay, how do you get this?

01:46:37 Speaker_03
Let's talk to all the people that are on his cell phone, all the people that are in his email, let's investigate and find out where the fuck he got this stuff that he's on when he shoots at the president. You don't hear a peep out of that.

01:46:48 Speaker_03
So this guy somehow or another figures out how to get on the roof, take these shots, and then they kill him.

01:46:56 Speaker_03
Now if he shot and hit Trump, if Trump didn't turn his head at that pivotal moment they're talking about, and it's a headshot, Trump is dead, the world's in chaos, and this kid's dead seconds later, and then it's like that.

01:47:09 Speaker_03
Crazy kid who shoots the president and that's it. And then, okay, now who's going to run as a Republican? The world's in chaos. It would have been a perfect plan if that kid just pulled it off.

01:47:26 Speaker_05
Yeah. I mean, and I just, I can't, I think about I, when I do a, like a college speech, we'll have a little, we'll have a few security guys there. And there's no way, if someone showed up with a range finder, they would not get in the building.

01:47:42 Speaker_05
Anyone that looks vaguely suspicious with any kind of bag is getting flagged. And I got like, you know, I got three or four guys, and I'm just a guy, I'm just a guy giving a speech at a college. That never would have happened.

01:47:53 Speaker_05
It could not have happened. They would have flagged, especially three hours ahead of time. So how does that happen with the President of the United States or a former president? It's impossible to wrap your mind around.

01:48:01 Speaker_05
It's not like they've come up with, It's not like they've come up with some explanation where you could go, OK, well, now I can see how that might have happened. Everything we've heard since then just makes you even more confused.

01:48:13 Speaker_03
No, it's insane. The whole story is insane. And the fact that it went away is even more insane.

01:48:18 Speaker_03
And the fact that there was a brief moment where even Biden was saying that we have to stop being so polarized and stop attacking each other and just try to help this country heal. And then a week later, fuck that guy. That guy's a threat to democracy.

01:48:32 Speaker_05
But I also think part of it, the fact that America seems to have moved on is nuts. Part of it, it's a political mistake. A lot of it's the media, of course, they have no interest in talking about it. Some of it goes to the Republican Party.

01:48:47 Speaker_05
You had the Republican Convention, which was like two days later, so the timing is nuts. Even at the Republican convention, I just felt like the fact that this guy was almost killed two days ago should be like the centerpiece of this thing.

01:49:02 Speaker_05
I mean, you've got all the cameras on you for four days.

01:49:06 Speaker_05
And so everything you were planning for the convention should change now because of this, and it should take on an extra seriousness, and just the whole tone should change because of this incredible historic event, fist up, fight, fight, the whole thing.

01:49:22 Speaker_05
and uh i don't know they just went to the republican convention and they started parading around the normal you know they had their celebrity comes out they've got instagram influencers and they've got you know they got mega rappers from youtube and it's just like you're not you're

01:49:37 Speaker_05
You are not showing us how serious this thing is, and so I think that was a mistake.

01:49:42 Speaker_03
Right. Well, I think you only want to address it once, and it's probably, look, he's got a great ability to push things aside, and it's one of the reasons why he didn't age like everybody else ages when they get into the White House.

01:49:54 Speaker_03
He kind of aged normal, you know, like he didn't seem any older when he got out as when he got in. He's the same guy. I think he's got this ability because so many people have hated him for so long. He gets attacked so often.

01:50:06 Speaker_03
He knows how to just shut it off and shut it out. And I think he probably did that with the assassination attempt, too. It's one of the reasons why he said, I'm going to talk about it once and I'm not going to talk about it again.

01:50:15 Speaker_03
And he's basically held to that, other than briefly mentioning it, that he thinks he got shot in the head because of the way they talk about him, which I would agree.

01:50:24 Speaker_03
I mean, we watched that footage right before the podcast of Trump on The Colbert Show that apparently never aired. But Jamie says you can get it on Colbert's website.

01:50:36 Speaker_03
No, no, no, but there's just saying that it never aired you never aired on television, is that true?

01:50:45 Speaker_03
Well Because sometimes things get on YouTube that never air on television like fear factor the fear factor episode that got us canceled you you can't watch it on On television it would never aired on NBC, but it's on the end on YouTube.

01:50:58 Speaker_03
You can watch it on YouTube. I

01:51:00 Speaker_00
There's things that get here from an Atlantic from the day after Those things that go around was like, okay, so he might have actually been a guest.

01:51:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, okay So he was a guest on it But the way they talked to him the way Colbert talks to him and the way they talked to him on the view The view is my favorite one The view's wild when they're all hugging him and everybody loves him.

01:51:23 Speaker_05
They both are. I think they're equally as wild because Colbert apologizes to him apparently in that for being mean to him. Tells him in the clip we watched tells him I'm so grateful that you're running for president.

01:51:33 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:51:34 Speaker_05
And this was. He said that.

01:51:35 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:51:36 Speaker_05
Yeah. And this was September of 2016 or 15. So this was, of course, after he'd already announced.

01:51:44 Speaker_03
A year plus before the elections.

01:51:46 Speaker_05
Yeah.

01:51:47 Speaker_03
But everybody thought he was a joke back then.

01:51:49 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think it was that they were happy that he ran, and they wanted him to win the nomination because they thought they'd easily beat him.

01:51:57 Speaker_05
So this really is a Frankenstein kind of story from their perspective, because they look at him as a monster, this monstrous figure. The media deliberately created this. They gave him all the attention.

01:52:10 Speaker_05
They sucked all the oxygen out of the room for every other candidate, because this is the guy they wanted. And they thought, we're going to annihilate him. There's no way he's going to win a general election. And of course, he won.

01:52:22 Speaker_05
And I think that's one of the reasons why ever since then, they haven't been able, the media, they just can't. They hate him with an extra passion that they have not had even for other Republican presidents. And I think a lot of it is,

01:52:35 Speaker_05
It's like they're projecting because they realize that they did this and they just can't get over it, I think.

01:52:43 Speaker_03
Well, there's definitely this overcorrection. You know, Robert Epstein talked about that.

01:52:48 Speaker_03
You know, Robert Epstein has done all that work on Google and these ephemeral instances of interacting with Google where it shows you with search results and with news stories that get brought to your feed that they're temporary.

01:53:02 Speaker_03
You don't record them. So he records all these. And what he has found through his research is that, especially with people that are on the fence, Like people that are 50-50, you could swing 50-50 to 90-10.

01:53:16 Speaker_03
Like people that don't know who they're going to vote for, you could make it 90-10 just through these interactions with Google. It's really chocking. What do you mean, 90-10 in what way?

01:53:26 Speaker_03
90-10, like say if you want Hillary to win or you want Trump to win, whatever candidate you choose, if you manipulate the search results, if you manipulate just the fill-in, you know, the suggestions, is Matt Walsh A, and then it just fills it in.

01:53:42 Speaker_03
Just through that, just through the suggestions, they can manipulate it to a significant difference for people that are on the fence, that are independents or that are undecided.

01:53:51 Speaker_03
And he said you can take 50-50 and turn it to 90-10, which is fucking stunning. It's stunning.

01:53:57 Speaker_05
Terrifying.

01:53:57 Speaker_03
It's terrifying and it's unregulated. And one of the things that happened was after Trump won in 2016, there was some sort of a meeting at Google where they were openly talking about this.

01:54:09 Speaker_03
And they were talking about, we can't let this happen again, which is such a crazy thing to say, that we can't let the people decide who they want to be president again.

01:54:19 Speaker_03
If that is what they said, if that is what they, and let's find out what the actual quote was.

01:54:25 Speaker_03
I could see how someone would say that if they worked at an insurance company and they're a pro, you know, diehard Democrat, blue no matter who, and they were like, we can't let this happen again.

01:54:36 Speaker_03
I could see how you say that if you're just an individual voter who doesn't really have an impact. But if you're someone who can shift undecided voters from 50-50 to 90-10, as Robert Epstein is alleging, if that's true,

01:54:49 Speaker_03
That's a crazy thing to say because you're deciding you're going to decide the result of the election and you don't give a fuck about debate and free speech and people being able to decide for themselves because you think that you're right and you think everybody else should agree with you.

01:55:06 Speaker_05
You also think that you are or you've told yourself that you are the vanguard.

01:55:11 Speaker_05
protecting democracy in our way of life which is crazy which is insane of course the idea that you have to prevent people from voting for a certain guy in order to protect democracy it's like it's nuts it's so nuts uh but

01:55:25 Speaker_05
But that's what they actually believe. And when you tell yourself that, and you convince yourself that, well, this is for their own good. These people are silly. They don't know. They're dumb. They're bigoted. They don't understand what they're doing.

01:55:36 Speaker_05
And so for their own good, we have to prevent them. We have to do whatever we can to prevent this.

01:55:40 Speaker_03
When I talk to some of my hardcore lefty friends that are still left in LA that I was telling you about before, they say we. They say we all the time. We have to win this. They say that all the time. We can win if this happens.

01:55:52 Speaker_03
They say that kind of shit, and they talk about it like they're talking about the Dodgers. They really do.

01:55:57 Speaker_03
They talk about it like they're talking about our team, and they're connected to all these other people in their community, and they're all on this team, and it's weird, man. It's a weird little hack that It's just like hypnosis.

01:56:08 Speaker_03
It's weird that you can just do that to people.

01:56:10 Speaker_03
It's weird that you can get people to just ideologically be captured and join this team and lose all ability to look at things objectively and just understand nuance and understand the influence of propaganda and like, how many people are spending money on this?

01:56:25 Speaker_03
Why does all the news have this one specific narrative? And then Fox News is a totally different, what is going on here? And nobody does that.

01:56:34 Speaker_05
And not only can you get them to, obviously they hate Trump, but to also demonize half of the country's population.

01:56:45 Speaker_05
I mean, there was just, I think it was MSNBC yesterday, one of these pundits was talking about Trump and said, well, he's despicable, he's terrible, but his supporters are too. He said.

01:56:57 Speaker_05
And they went on about how terrible his supporters are, which is you're talking about tens of millions of Americans. A basket of deplorables. Right. But, you know, we take it for granted now. But 15 years ago, that would kind of be unthinkable.

01:57:10 Speaker_05
You just you wouldn't do that. You would you say whatever you want about a politician. You hate them. They're terrible.

01:57:15 Speaker_05
But it was just generally understood that you don't you don't use that language to talk about all the people voting for these are American citizens.

01:57:20 Speaker_03
Do you remember when Mitt Romney and Barack Obama debated? It was the most cordial, professional, respectful discussion of the issues and who could do a better job. Kind of amazing. Kind of amazing that that was, what was that, 2012? Kind of amazing.

01:57:39 Speaker_05
And I don't mind, because you can go back farther in American history and you can find, like back to the beginning, and they're in Congress beating each other over the head with

01:57:49 Speaker_05
fireplace pokers and that sort of thing and I don't you know There's an argument to be made for that kind of it certainly makes c-span a lot more interesting But that shows a certain passion for the issues I suppose But that's it's what we have now is different from that.

01:58:05 Speaker_05
It's it's it's much more. I mean There been multiple cases recently of congressional hearings where they start screaming at each other. Marjorie Taylor Greene, AOC. And who's the other one? Jasmine Crockett, I think. And it's like a Waffle House.

01:58:24 Speaker_05
Just no respect for each other, but also no dignity at all, no class. No respect for the position.

01:58:31 Speaker_03
You can't be yelling out, oh baby girl, you're a congresswoman. This is crazy. And they're making fun of each other's wigs. Google versus Trump leaked video reveals executives' negative reactions to Trump's 2016 election victory.

01:58:44 Speaker_03
So what is the actual quote?

01:58:46 Speaker_00
I didn't see the actual quote that we were trying to find. There were stuff said that they weren't happy and then this got so this was a confidential video that got released via Breitbart in 2016.

01:58:57 Speaker_03
So he's saying here hold on are you saying here most people are pretty upset and sad because of the election? Imagine that most people like how do you know?

01:59:07 Speaker_03
Myself, as an immigrant and a refugee, I certainly find this election deeply offensive, and I know many of you do, too. I think it's a very stressful time, and it conflicts with many of our values. So scroll up. What else does he say?

01:59:21 Speaker_00
He then added, too, he hopes that there might be—I don't know if I find where it was. This might have been right here. Yeah, less convinced. He said, I find many of the things Trump has done very offensive.

01:59:31 Speaker_03
I don't have very high hopes, but he could do anything. You have no idea. Maybe he will do something great. Who knows? Take a little bit of wishful thinking.

01:59:37 Speaker_00
So Google pushed back that there wasn't any bias discussed in the meeting.

01:59:42 Speaker_03
Well, that's bias right there saying that most of us are upset, right? For over 20 years, everyone at Google has been able to freely express their opinions at these meetings. Nothing was said at that meeting or any other meeting

01:59:52 Speaker_03
to suggest that any political biases ever influences the way we build or operate our products. So this is Google's official statement. So what else did he say, though?

02:00:03 Speaker_03
Because the thing that Robert was alleging that he was saying, we're going to make sure it doesn't happen again.

02:00:07 Speaker_00
I couldn't find that quote. I watched a little bit of the video with closed caption. Scroll back up so I could just read all those quotes. Right. Someone else that they're giving a quote of. Not him.

02:00:18 Speaker_03
Mm-hmm. I think a lot of us would agree this election is particularly hard.

02:00:22 Speaker_05
He said there was a lot of rhetoric There was a lot of rhetoric, yeah, well, that's what elections are One of the things that's always interesting to me is that they're that they are so desperate to stop Trump and they that they They act like it's it's you know, the future of the planet hangs in the balance meanwhile

02:00:46 Speaker_05
They still own everything. I mean, they own all the institutions, Google, the federal government. So the truth is that Trump could get into office. This happened last time. He was in office for four years. They acted like it was the end of the world.

02:01:01 Speaker_05
Then he's out of office. And they basically reverse everything he did in like two seconds. A couple executive orders, whatever. And most of it never took hold anyway because the bureaucracy is entirely aligned against Trump.

02:01:16 Speaker_05
It's that's the problem is that even when Trump gets in there?

02:01:19 Speaker_05
There's there's he's handicapped in his ability to do anything because the entire federal government He might be at the top of it, but everybody underneath him Despises him and they're all leftist so

02:01:33 Speaker_05
And they can just reverse it the second that he leaves. And yet they still act like if he's in there that it's the end of the world. They still can't. You'd think they'd almost have an attitude. They're like, yeah, whatever, fine.

02:01:43 Speaker_05
Let him have it for four years. Yeah, it still won't matter because we're still going to be in charge of everything.

02:01:48 Speaker_03
Did you see the conversation where this woman was talking to someone from Trump's team, worried that he was going to weaponize the judicial system once he got into office, that if he got into office, he would weaponize the judicial system and go after his enemies?

02:02:08 Speaker_03
Oh, wow. I can't imagine. What are you saying? For you saying that and asking whether or not Trump would do that, You have to acknowledge the fact that that's absolutely happening to him right now.

02:02:22 Speaker_03
And then she tries to push back against it and he does a brilliant job of explaining how she's incorrect. Hey, let me, I'm going to find this Jamie, cause this is a good one.

02:02:31 Speaker_03
Um, unless you could find it, but it's, it's kind of crazy like to, to see this conversation take place. Cause you're just like, what? Like, how are you even, how are you so blind to what's absolutely happening that you could even say that?

02:02:46 Speaker_03
I'm going to find it. It's so hard to find things that you save on these little social media platforms. See if you can find it, Jamie.

02:02:56 Speaker_03
No, it was from a conversation between someone in the Trump administration, someone on his team, and I know I can find it if you just give me a second.

02:03:06 Speaker_03
That Trump is going to weaponize the- Yeah, that's her argument, is that Trump is going to weaponize the political system. And you know, this guy's saying, how are you even saying that without admitting that they're doing that right now to him?

02:03:21 Speaker_03
God damn it, I'm not going to find it. I don't know where I saved it. Sorry. Every time I type it in all I see is stuff about Trump saying he would use I Know but that's because of Google and that's why what's-his-face is correct.

02:03:38 Speaker_03
I Know I saved it shit, of course, the funny thing is that he definitely will not do that No, well, he didn't do that when he was in office. He could have done that to Hillary, right said he thought it would be a bad Look, yeah.

02:03:48 Speaker_05
Yeah, he ran on lock her up. He didn't I mean, that's the thing they always

02:03:53 Speaker_05
their criticisms of trump one of the reasons they don't really land is that they they're not hitting him in the places where like they don't even understand what his weaknesses actually are uh they try to make him out to be some kind of dictator that's that's the opposite if anything he has the opposite if anything he has the opposite flaw that he he's actually uh hesitant to wield power even in times when he should

02:04:18 Speaker_05
So, you know, if anything, that should be the criticism, that you should use your power more. But he's probably the least dictatorial, you know, presidential candidate we've ever had.

02:04:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, probably, when you think about what he actually did when he was in office. But that's why it gets weird.

02:04:37 Speaker_03
It's like, because they can say something, and it can be not true, but yet enough people repeat it, and then it just becomes a narrative that everyone just... I mean, like, it's true that he's a convicted felon now, but is it true that it makes any sense?

02:04:53 Speaker_03
No. For you to say that he's a convicted felon, like, okay, right, but what did he do? Do you know what he did? What he did is a misdemeanor. Like, and it also lapsed the, um, the, you know, whatever the fuck it is where you, uh, statute of limitations.

02:05:08 Speaker_03
Thank you. So, and there's 34 counts for a bookkeeping.

02:05:13 Speaker_05
Right. And, but they don't know what he did. The people saying that they don't know what he did. They don't care.

02:05:17 Speaker_03
Right. They don't care. So they just repeat that thing that he's a convicted felon. I can't find this goddamn thing, it's driving me nuts. Because it was really interesting. I hate when I save something and I don't know where I put it, but I know I do.

02:05:31 Speaker_05
And the funny thing is these are also people who otherwise would say that the court system is entirely corrupt, that just because you're a convicted felon it really doesn't mean anything at all necessarily. Right.

02:05:43 Speaker_05
So, but in this case, they put a lot of stock in it.

02:05:46 Speaker_03
Well, it's just, we're in the weirdest time where people are willing to believe bullshit. It's not as simple as being able to recognize bullshit.

02:05:56 Speaker_03
They recognize it, they have it right in front of them, and they're willing to believe it because it's more convenient to believe it.

02:06:03 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, I can't find it.

02:06:05 Speaker_03
I'm giving up right now.

02:06:12 Speaker_05
Well, they said stuff like that for sure.

02:06:14 Speaker_03
Yeah, I know they have. But this one was really interesting because you see this guy combat it and the way combats it is so so interesting to see her squirm because yeah, that's exactly what they're doing there.

02:06:25 Speaker_03
I mean, it's not a terrible crime that he committed and you're making it seem as if it's something that he deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life for. And that's crazy. That's a crazy thing to say.

02:06:35 Speaker_03
And that might actually happen if he doesn't become president. If he doesn't become president, they might actually lock him up for 25 years for that, which is essentially the rest of his life will be behind bars at Rikers.

02:06:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, I kind of go back. That's the conventional wisdom, at least the people I talk to, that they say, well, if Trump doesn't win, he's going to jail. And so he's got a lot on the line here. I kind of think, are they really?

02:07:00 Speaker_05
Maybe it's naive of me to think, but would they do that, or would they rather just, he loses, Kamala wins, and then they'd want Trump to just fade into obscurity and never talk about him again? I don't know.

02:07:18 Speaker_05
I would tend to think that they'd prefer that, but probably not.

02:07:22 Speaker_03
Yeah, you don't know. It's just so hard to tell what people would or wouldn't do today. It's just the whole country seems so committed to their side. And I don't know what a solution to that is.

02:07:36 Speaker_03
And I don't know how we get past this and whether Trump wins or loses. Like, what happens? What happens next?

02:07:44 Speaker_05
There's certainly a real thirst for vengeance. They want revenge on him. I think that's what it comes down to.

02:07:53 Speaker_05
whether it helps them politically or not, because I think that's the problem, is that if they, if Kamala wins and then they really go after Trump and try to put him in jail, and if they actually do put him in jail, I don't see how it helps them politically.

02:08:04 Speaker_05
I think that's just gonna radicalize people on the right even more than they already are. It will radicalize people on the right, but people on the left- And for good reason, by the way, I'm radicalized by it.

02:08:11 Speaker_03
Yeah.

02:08:12 Speaker_05
But, but I, so it doesn't help them politically, but I think they just, they, he has to pay the price for defying them for so many years.

02:08:21 Speaker_03
But if he does get in office, then it gets very interesting. Because then it's like, what can he do now? Like, how much different is his take on it now?

02:08:30 Speaker_03
Because one of the things that he said is the first time he got in, he didn't know anything about governing. He's like, I had to find people, and I picked some of the wrong people, but I know better now.

02:08:39 Speaker_03
And I could do a better job of it now, which kind of makes sense. Because if I wanted to talk to him, one of the things I really want to ask is, what is it like?

02:08:47 Speaker_03
The first, when you actually get in there, they don't think you're going to be in there, and now all of a sudden you're the actual president. What is the resistance like? What are the communications like?

02:08:55 Speaker_03
What can you say about how you have these conversations with these people and how you govern, how you get things done? Yeah, how much power do you actually have? Right. What is it actually like?

02:09:06 Speaker_03
Because we all have this sort of mystical view of what it's like to be the actual president, but very few people, and only one ever, that's not a part of the system, has ever snuck through and attained that position. It's only him.

02:09:20 Speaker_05
Yeah, I'd be interested to hear his answer to that. It wouldn't surprise me if, in a weird way, when you become president,

02:09:27 Speaker_05
you feel very powerless once you're sitting there because you realize that you're overseeing this just gigantic mammoth thing that's just so unwieldy. There's no way to really control it.

02:09:45 Speaker_05
And especially in his case, you've got so many people within his own administration plotting against him.

02:09:51 Speaker_03
Is there a lot of people within his own administration now you think plotting against him or only then? Do you think it's just like backstabby politics that just what they do period?

02:10:00 Speaker_05
I mean at the time there certainly was and I think but I think he also made some he made some Bad choices in personnel. He made a lot of really bad.

02:10:07 Speaker_05
I mean bringing guys like John Bolton in There's no chance that you're not going to be undermined by somebody like that and

02:10:16 Speaker_05
And especially, you know, in Trump's first campaign in 2016, drain the swamp was one of the, it was build the wall and drain the swamp and lock her up. You know, the two, three big things.

02:10:28 Speaker_05
And you don't, we don't hear drain the swamp nearly as much anymore. In fact, I don't think I've heard it. It's never said anymore. Right. Which is unfortunate because that is actually, that is the first thing that needs to happen if he gets in there.

02:10:40 Speaker_05
And what I would love to see is that Okay, he's in there now, he got back in, they tried to stop him, they tried to kill him, they tried to put him in jail, he still got in there. He's not getting reelected, this is it for him.

02:10:51 Speaker_05
Four more years, he's out of politics forever after that. And I'd love to see him just, I got nothing to lose now. They're gonna put me in jail when I'm out of office. So I got nothing to lose, I don't care what these people say.

02:11:05 Speaker_05
And just ruthlessly push your agenda through, no matter how much they complain about it. I'd love to see him do that. I think that they're assuming he will, which is why they're so desperate to stop him. But I don't know.

02:11:17 Speaker_05
It didn't happen the first time. I hope it does.

02:11:23 Speaker_03
What's also going to be very interesting to see, what do they do to try to prevent this from happening in the future?

02:11:30 Speaker_03
Because one of the things that has been discussed is cracking down on misinformation and that free speech doesn't include misinformation, which is a wild thing to say after what we just went through with COVID, where what people were saying was misinformation turned out to be 100 percent true.

02:11:45 Speaker_03
And not just about COVID, but about a bunch of things. Hunter Biden laptop story. There's quite a few different things you could point to. Like who the fuck gets to decide what's information? Only the government? You guys?

02:11:56 Speaker_03
The people that have lied about basically everything? This is a crazy thing to say, and to be running on that, and to get people to support that.

02:12:05 Speaker_03
Just the lack of understanding of what it means to be able to freely express ideas and communicate, and whistleblowers. Whistleblowers from corporations that are telling you about something they're doing that's illegal.

02:12:15 Speaker_03
Whistleblowers from government agents that are telling you they're spying on you when it's illegal. All that shit. To have that be filtered through the government is an insane position.

02:12:27 Speaker_03
And yet, that's something that they talk about, and this is something, bizarrely, that the left supports.

02:12:33 Speaker_05
Well, even if, because even if it is, most of the stuff they call misinformation isn't, but in the case when there's something that is misinformation, it's just not true, plenty of that goes around the internet, that's still free speech too.

02:12:44 Speaker_05
You have the right to say things that are not, as long as you're not slandering somebody, You have the right to make claims about the world that don't happen to be true. So the idea that that doesn't qualify as free speech is, of course, absurd.

02:12:57 Speaker_05
But then that also requires some central authority to be the arbiter of what is true and what is not.

02:13:03 Speaker_03
Exactly. And it's like a childish view of truth and lies. It's childish. Because one of the only ways that people find out if something is correct or not is let someone say something that's incorrect.

02:13:14 Speaker_03
Then someone who knows a lot more comes along and corrects them. Right. Yeah, that's that's how it works.

02:13:19 Speaker_03
You know, like I had a Terrence Howard, you know, Terrence Howard the actor brilliant guy But wrong about a lot of the things that he thinks he's right about I brought him in with Eric Weinstein and Eric Weinstein Who's a genius like a legitimate genius and a mathematician explained him like very patiently and carefully this is why you're wrong and this is what you need to know and You've got some good ideas, but you're off on all these different things.

02:13:45 Speaker_03
I'm an actual expert and And let me help you out here. And so anybody who saw Terrence Howard talk on the first podcast had this idea. Like, oh, wow, maybe he's right about all these things.

02:13:55 Speaker_03
Anybody who saw the second podcast with Eric, where Eric clearly corrects him and actually knows what he's talking about. He's a brilliant guy. Now that's what free speech is supposed to be about. That's what it's supposed to be about.

02:14:07 Speaker_03
An actual expert comes in, corrects everything, and then you have this look at it like, okay, now I see. But it's not silence Terrence Howard because he doesn't know what the fuck he's saying. No, it's like let him talk.

02:14:19 Speaker_03
Now let someone who really knows what they're talking about explain to him why he's wrong.

02:14:23 Speaker_03
That's the benefit of free speech and everybody listens that has a better understanding of all these different really weird complex things that they're discussing that maybe otherwise you would never have Illuminated in that way.

02:14:34 Speaker_03
You'd never really be able to understand it.

02:14:37 Speaker_05
That's why I think the the free speech thing is people act like it's a complicated It's a complicated subject. Where do you draw the line? What is free speech? What qualifies and what doesn't? I don't think it is that complicated, really.

02:14:49 Speaker_05
I think it's just you should have the right to express whatever your opinion happens to be. Everyone should be able to say their opinion, their point of view. wrong or right, reprehensible or not, they should be able to say it.

02:15:05 Speaker_05
Yeah, you can't defame someone, you can't threaten to kill somebody, but those aren't really opinions, that's different.

02:15:12 Speaker_05
If it's just your opinion about what's happening in the world, it should be allowed, and it should be allowed legally, it should be allowed on every social media platform.

02:15:20 Speaker_05
I think it's kind of simple, actually, to differentiate between that and the, because yeah, there's certain kinds of speech that should not be allowed, we all understand that.

02:15:28 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's complicated. And this childish idea that just handed over the government to clean it up. That's not the answer. It is complicated. There are going to be people that say a bunch of things that aren't true.

02:15:38 Speaker_03
But the way to combat that is not put the government in charge of what's true. Especially when they've been wrong so many times, or they just out and out lied so many times. That's a crazy position for the left to take.

02:15:49 Speaker_03
The ones who are supposed to be the party of science and reason, the ones who are supposed to be the most educated. It's just a bizarre perspective, just because you don't want Trump to win.

02:15:58 Speaker_05
Just you know, you don't want this to happen again, and they hate speech to is the other is the other the other label they used to You can't you can't say Tim Wall said this recently. Yeah about free speech.

02:16:11 Speaker_05
He said well, of course you can't hate speech and misinformation doesn't count well, what is hate speech or hate speech is just You're expressing that you hate something That's people people hate things, you know, it's legitimate.

02:16:23 Speaker_05
There are some things we should hate and So the idea that it's automatically illegitimate to express a view if it's communicating hatred is, of course, ridiculous.

02:16:34 Speaker_03
It is ridiculous, but it's also a really goofy label that you can slap on basically anything. Like hate speech can get to the point where if you call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce Jenner, that's hate speech. Right? That's dead naming.

02:16:46 Speaker_03
Dead naming falls under hate speech. And so what are you saying? You can't do that? Like, well, that's fucking ridiculous. I can call him a cunt, but I can't say his name is Bruce. That's insanity.

02:16:57 Speaker_03
Like, what world are we living in where you can decide what someone can and can't say by a label? That's so why it's such a net you're casting, you know, hate speech. It's like completely subjective. Anyone can decide what's hate speech.

02:17:12 Speaker_05
Right. And it implies that all hatred is automatically bad, or at least it puts the people in power in a position where they can decide what kind of things you're allowed to hate and what you're not.

02:17:23 Speaker_03
Right. And it makes things all equal, too. Something very benign versus something truly awful. It's all under this one stupid umbrella of hate speech. Yeah hate crimes to the same where do you think we would be if Elon hadn't bought Twitter?

02:17:39 Speaker_05
Different world, right? Yeah, that's that's I think Elon Musk is He is actually preserving free speech One of the main people preserving free speech in America right now and going into space so it's always it's always funny to me when people

02:17:57 Speaker_05
When the left tries to nitpick and needle at him, it's like, this is one of the most significant human beings on the planet right now.

02:18:02 Speaker_03
And literally one of the most significant human beings historically ever. Right. He's like a Nikola Tesla type character that people are going to be talking about 100 years from now.

02:18:11 Speaker_05
And he'll, you know, SpaceX will launch a rocket and it'll blow up or something. Stephen King was making fun of him.

02:18:16 Speaker_03
Right.

02:18:17 Speaker_05
Yeah. You'll have someone like Stephen King, like, rocket blew up. It's like, dude, your rockets don't blow up because you don't build them.

02:18:23 Speaker_03
I mean, not only that, like he made this tweet about how it damaged the ionosphere that when it blew up. But do you know that that like heals up in like 40 minutes?

02:18:33 Speaker_04
Yeah.

02:18:34 Speaker_03
He didn't even bother looking into that. Like every time they punch a rocket through that shit, it damages it. But it heals. It's like you punch a hole through a cloud.

02:18:45 Speaker_05
And a lot of times when they say that the rocket malfunctioned or something, it's actually doing exactly what it was supposed to do. This is a test run or whatever. Yeah, they have to test tolerances and parameters.

02:18:53 Speaker_03
I mean, they have a lot of them blow up. Yeah. That's what you have to do until you get one that doesn't blow up.

02:18:59 Speaker_05
Yeah, and you need and we just need people in the world that this is very much the it's like the Teddy Roosevelt man in the arena, you know Speech you need people in the arena who are actually trying to do stuff.

02:19:12 Speaker_05
Yeah do important things You need people like that. Yeah, and of course social media gives a platform for people who are like not doing anything at all and to just sit and snicker at the few people in the world who are trying to achieve something?

02:19:25 Speaker_03
Yeah, but that's okay. That's okay, too. That's their free speech. If that's what Stephen King wants to do today, let him go. Who cares? It's interesting to watch. All of it is interesting to watch.

02:19:39 Speaker_03
You know, there's a lot of people out there that are fools, and they serve as education to others. You see the folly in their actions and behaviors and how stupid they look and how ridiculous this whole thing is, and it's there for you.

02:19:54 Speaker_03
You learn from those people. You have a better understanding of human behavior. You have a better understanding that people are capable of, you know, being really interesting, intelligent people, but also being buffoons at the same time.

02:20:08 Speaker_03
and that we're all subject to all these various influences, and especially through the use of social media, which just, like I said before, it's an anxiety-creating machine.

02:20:18 Speaker_03
And there's so many of these people that are attached to it that are so deeply rooted in these online conversations and so disconnected from the natural world. And it's odd. It's odd to watch, but they're there for you.

02:20:29 Speaker_03
They're there for an education, an understanding, a greater understanding of the weird nuances of human thinking. Because that's genuinely what this whole thing is all about.

02:20:40 Speaker_03
All the ideologies, and all the left and the right, and the immigrants are great, and immigrants are terrible, and they're eating ducks.

02:20:47 Speaker_03
All of it is just human thinking, trying to figure out what's the correct and incorrect way that we all cohabitate, and what's the best way for all of us to sort of get along.

02:20:56 Speaker_05
Yeah. I mean, that's the catch-22 with social media, because it could be If you use it exactly the right way, it does give you access to all these human beings and the way that they're thinking about things, which can be quite enlightening.

02:21:12 Speaker_05
But most people don't use it the right way.

02:21:13 Speaker_03
And also, you have to use it the right way.

02:21:15 Speaker_05
And you can. This is also why, in my opinion, my kids, none of my kids have smartphones or social media.

02:21:20 Speaker_03
They're going to get bullied.

02:21:22 Speaker_05
Well, they're not on social media, so.

02:21:24 Speaker_03
They're going to get bullied by, how old are your kids? All of us are 11. That's young enough. They shouldn't have social media. Yeah, I agree with you there. But as they get into the high school ages, I think it's a new world. We're navigating it.

02:21:37 Speaker_03
They should learn how to navigate it, too. I think it is very addictive, but it also, there's people that know how to walk away from it and know how to self-regulate, and I think that's a valuable skill that I think everyone's going to have to learn.

02:21:50 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think once you like I mean we've thought we haven't quite decided when we're gonna introduce this stuff to the kids But once you get into height at a certain point, yeah, I don't want them to be 18 It's their first time ever holding a cell phone, right?

02:22:00 Speaker_05
Because then you're just then they have no way we haven't given them the tools to understand how to use this stuff right like the emotional and you know intellectual tools so you got to introduce it at some point but

02:22:12 Speaker_05
You know, most kids today, I don't know what the latest figure is, but millions of kids today have smartphones by the time they're like eight or nine years old.

02:22:20 Speaker_05
A lot of my kids, you know, with friends when they come over and they're eight, nine, 10 years old and they've got phones, I just think it's like, that's, it can only harm them. You understand, as a parent, you're giving them something at this age.

02:22:31 Speaker_05
They cannot use it appropriately or correctly. They don't have the tools for it. They're not old enough. It can only, it cannot help them in their life. It can only harm them. It can only do damage to them.

02:22:41 Speaker_03
I think we're going to look at it 20, 30 years from now the same way we look at people smoking. I think we're going to think, what were we doing? What were we doing giving kids those goddamn phones? What did we do?

02:22:54 Speaker_03
We don't even know what the kids of today, who are on the internet, who are subject to the same sort of horrific images that you and I were talking about earlier. Like, what is that doing to people long term?

02:23:04 Speaker_03
Like, I never got exposed to anything like that when I was seven. Like, how many kids are getting exposed to murder videos when they're 10 years old? Yeah, probably quite a few. Pornography. Yeah. Oh, that's the craziest one, right?

02:23:15 Speaker_03
Because that was a hard thing to get. It was difficult. When I was a boy, we'd find magazines in the woods. You know, you knew a guy who had a VHS tape. Oh, my God. It was crazy. No one can find it. Now, kids have it on their phones. And it's instantaneous.

02:23:29 Speaker_03
You have 5G on your phone. You can go to any porn site anytime you want.

02:23:34 Speaker_05
Yeah. I mean, the average age of first exposure to pornography now is like, I think it's around 10 years old. I mean, it depends on, I guess, what study you look at. But it's young.

02:23:43 Speaker_05
And it's not just because, yeah, people sometimes will dismiss the harms of it because they'll say, They'll say, oh, yeah, I found a Playboy under my dad's mattress or whatever. Not the same. It's not at all the same.

02:23:53 Speaker_05
I mean, the kind of thing you're being exposed to, how often you're being exposed to it, how ubiquitous it is now, how readily available it is, it's not at all the same.

02:24:01 Speaker_03
Well, you know, we had the guys on from that Chimp Crazy show. You know that new show on HBO where the people have pet chimps?

02:24:08 Speaker_05
No.

02:24:09 Speaker_03
It's crazy. It's the same guys who did Tiger King. Oh. And it's amazing. It's on Max, used to be HBO. And one of the things they said is that chimps get addicted to pornography.

02:24:19 Speaker_02
Really?

02:24:20 Speaker_03
Yeah. They get addicted to pornography, and they watch it all the time. Like these certain chimps that get older, they give them iPads, they give them phones, and they show them, you know, they get on the internet.

02:24:31 Speaker_03
And if someone shows them pornography, they get addicted to pornography. That's crazy. That's crazy. And they start sexualizing human beings.

02:24:39 Speaker_05
Well, that kind of goes to show there's something primal about, even just the, well obviously the pornography, but the phone, even like my two-year-old twins, they don't have phones obviously. There's just something about the phone itself.

02:24:54 Speaker_05
Even if it's off. They just like to cool object.

02:24:56 Speaker_05
Yeah Yeah, and in our kids we will you know, they don't have tablets and all that stuff But if we go on a long car trip, it's the one time we make an exception if we're going like a 20-hour car trip Just so we don't just for our own sanity.

02:25:07 Speaker_05
We'll let them have tablets in the car just games and books and stuff but Then we get wherever we're going, we take the tablets away, you don't get them anymore. But there's like a detox period of like two or three days, where they're jonesing for it.

02:25:20 Speaker_05
They're constantly asking for it. Then once you get past that, they're fine again, but there's a real, it's like there's something, it creates this compulsion, and kids take to it really quickly.

02:25:32 Speaker_05
And it just becomes another limb for them, part of them somehow, really quickly.

02:25:39 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's weird. And the addictions to phones, which we all have, then the addictions to social media, which a lot of people have, and then you get these weird insulated groups that live in echo chambers.

02:25:54 Speaker_03
And that's, I think, like one of the things you highlight the most about this show, this Am I Racist film that you made, is like the struggle sessions where these people are like the first scene where you

02:26:08 Speaker_03
Before they know who you are when you're you're going and it's sitting there and and talking to these people about these things Like who are you? Like, where do you live? How do you think like this?

02:26:18 Speaker_03
Like what is going on in your life that you've been exposed to this version of the world that seems So ridiculous to someone who's not in that bubble so ridiculous that it seems fake It seems like you're doing like a Borat thing

02:26:32 Speaker_05
Yeah, and it's yeah, we've gotten that with the movie people ask is it is all is that all real or did we stay? It's all totally real.

02:26:39 Speaker_05
We didn't script any of it and that in particular is a yeah It's like a support group for white people who are struggling with their white grief because they they have privilege and they're grieving their whiteness and their privilege and There's this woman Bershia Wade, I think is in it a black woman

02:26:58 Speaker_05
She'll do these sessions with white people where she'll kind of like talk them through their whiteness. And people, yeah, people pay money to go and sit around and talk to her.

02:27:07 Speaker_05
And that was another one that was like an hour and a half, two hours in the room in real time.

02:27:13 Speaker_03
When did they start figuring out who you were?

02:27:19 Speaker_05
At some point midway through, they started, well, they started looking at me strange because I was intentionally making it really awkward, just because it was funny.

02:27:29 Speaker_05
But then I as you can see in the movie I got I get I get emotional because I'm on my own journey of self-discovery and I had to leave because there's the one one rule that all these people have we ran into this multiple times is If you're white you're not allowed to cry in front of black people because that's white tears and you can't shed white tears around black people because white tears are manipulative and

02:27:48 Speaker_05
So in this place, she had a cry room. She said, if you get emotional, you have to cry. We have a room. Get away from us and go cry over there. So at one point, I left to the cry room because I was getting emotional.

02:28:01 Speaker_05
It's a very emotional experience to confront my whiteness. I guess while I was gone, they started talking to each other. Like, who is this guy? They looked it up and they were Googling. And then I came back. The whole thing had changed.

02:28:15 Speaker_05
The tone had changed. They kicked me out.

02:28:18 Speaker_02
It's a great scene. They called the cops.

02:28:19 Speaker_03
When the guy is saying, he's trying to hold your hand, trying to grab you, and you're like, I do not consent to be touched. He's like, I'm not going to touch you. I'm just going to answer your questions. Come, I'll answer your questions.

02:28:28 Speaker_02
He's going to answer your questions? Like, what kind of answers are you going to give me, buddy?

02:28:33 Speaker_05
That guy, too, I can say. One of the people in that group was a professional cuddler, actually. It's not in the movie, but we just know that about them. They get paid to cuddle with people? Yeah, one of the people in the group. Jeez.

02:28:48 Speaker_05
A cuddlist is what they call it. Jeez. They're fringe people. We thought about, somehow we could put up a lower third on the screen, but it would seem fake. It's like, people don't, really? Professional cuddler? Come on. But this is too crazy.

02:29:05 Speaker_05
These people exist out there. This is a world that they live in.

02:29:07 Speaker_01
Yeah.

02:29:08 Speaker_05
They go to events like this and they're they're very. They have a lot of guilt for the fact that they're white. There were people crying in the circle. I mean, they were getting really emotional talking about it.

02:29:21 Speaker_05
There's the part where she says, think about being white. What emotions come up when you think about being white? And then everyone goes around and they're like, oh, I have revulsion. I just feel, I cringe. I feel cringed. Really? This is you.

02:29:40 Speaker_05
You're talking about yourself. It's just it's sick. It's a sickness.

02:29:45 Speaker_03
Yeah. Well, it was very funny at the end, too We try to get people at spoiler alert try to get people to self flagellate Yeah

02:29:59 Speaker_05
That's it I'm out like slowly you look you lost like a bunch of people over the course of it I didn't think I mean we we had that plan as our last exercise when we bring the whips out and We debated like is anyone really gonna take a whip.

02:30:13 Speaker_05
I didn't think anybody would I Thought that this would be that because we needed an end for the scene and so I thought I'd bring the whips out and everybody would leave And so then that would be the end.

02:30:24 Speaker_05
And then that would be, that's our, cause you know, it's a narrative. We're trying to tell a story. So that would be the thing that shows me I've gone too far.

02:30:31 Speaker_05
But then they started taking the whips and I'm like, I don't think I can actually have you beat yourself right now or like liability. I don't know if I can do that. Um, so I was not expecting that.

02:30:41 Speaker_03
We lost a lot of people. And yes, who's the most racist person in the room?

02:30:46 Speaker_05
There was really the, uh, right before that, I mean, you know, it's spoilers, I guess, but, uh, when I'm berating my racist uncle. Well, I don't know, you gotta watch it. You gotta watch it.

02:31:02 Speaker_05
That was, for me, making the movie, the most shocking thing to me that happened, that really took me back, was in that moment and the way they responded to it, which I was not expecting. It's kind of dark.

02:31:17 Speaker_03
Yeah, they got aggressive with him.

02:31:18 Speaker_05
Yeah.

02:31:20 Speaker_03
It's a great movie, man. And it's just like, what is a woman? In sort of the same vein of just, it almost feels like satire, but you realize it's not. It's just ridiculous. But you do a great job. You do a really good job of staying calm and deadpanning.

02:31:39 Speaker_03
Because I don't have that skill. I would not be able to hold it together. I would have to start laughing. At some point, I'm out of crack.

02:31:48 Speaker_05
It's just I wouldn't be able to not enjoy it in the moment to the point where you don't enjoy in the moment because in the it's actually It's really unpleasant in the moment. You're in this environment with these insane people.

02:32:00 Speaker_05
Yeah It's like it's exhausting, you know listening to this. How did you develop that skill to do that though? Because that's a skill I don't know if I I can't say I did anything to develop it.

02:32:17 Speaker_05
It's more just, I just know what, you know, we're making a movie, so I'm aware of that the whole time. Obviously, if we weren't, if the cameras weren't rolling, I wouldn't be reacting the same way.

02:32:30 Speaker_05
So I just kind of keep that in the back of my mind, like this is what we need for this scene. And also, but the main thing is we want, with both movies, the whole point is to create an environment

02:32:42 Speaker_05
where the other person feels comfortable saying what they actually think and what they really believe and doing what they would really do. And that means not react because if you laugh at them, they clam up.

02:32:55 Speaker_05
You know, if you argue with them, if you show any real skepticism, They clam up. They're not going to tell you what they really believe. And then it's a, it's a, it's a boring movie because all you're getting is the, are the talking points.

02:33:07 Speaker_05
And that's especially the case we found in this, you know, that was the case with what is woman. We're talking to the trans activists, but in this, when you're talking to the race hustlers, they've been doing it for a lot longer.

02:33:17 Speaker_05
The race hustle has been around a lot longer than the trans hustle. And, uh, they're pretty good at what they do. And they, they're usually pretty sensitive to

02:33:28 Speaker_05
detecting when someone's being skeptical and if they get that then they they're They kind of go into a different mode and they go into this kind of HR DEI mode where everything's very sanitized very surface level They're not gonna they're not gonna tell you this stuff about how you know All white people are inherently racist and they're not gonna do they're not gonna get into the really brutal terrible racist stuff So we just thought making this movie how can we

02:33:53 Speaker_05
Just create an environment where they'll where they'll really themselves be themselves the kookiest version which with what is woman all that were required was just kind of being a blank slate and asking questions with this one it required more of a Affirmatively agreeing with them

02:34:10 Speaker_05
and demonstrating that I'm fully on board with this.

02:34:12 Speaker_03
There's a feel that you have when you go into it. If I was there and I didn't know you, I'd be like, I think this guy's fucking around. There's just an edge, just a touch of it, just a touch of it that makes it even funnier.

02:34:27 Speaker_03
Because you're hanging in there and you're being dead planned. But there's some moments where, one of my favorite moments, was you asked Robin DiAngelo what mansplaining was.

02:34:37 Speaker_03
And then when she gave you a definition and you mansplained her, you corrected her.

02:34:44 Speaker_02
And she didn't even pick up with what you just did. Yeah. I was proud of that.

02:34:50 Speaker_03
It's very subtle. It's very subtle. I was stretching when I was watching that, just laughing really loud. Cause it was like, you just, oh my God.

02:34:58 Speaker_05
But the thing is she did kind of, and I think you can see it on camera in the room. I could tell she was kind of like, what did you just do? Yeah. She was trying to figure out in her head. I think she was trying to sort through it. Like, is he?

02:35:13 Speaker_05
But I think she just couldn't, she couldn't, the possibility that she was in the room with someone who doesn't already agree with her about everything, it's like unthinkable to her. She couldn't fathom it.

02:35:28 Speaker_05
She probably, that was probably the first time in like 20 years that she'd been in a room with someone who doesn't agree with her on everything. Has she responded to the movie at all?

02:35:39 Speaker_05
no she took down her twitter page so most of the people most of the people in the movie uh have taken down their twitter pages deleted them so they're kind of They're going into a bubble somewhere.

02:35:52 Speaker_05
I mean, the truth is, there's not a lot they can say, because, listen, if we deceptively edited it, if we pulled any trick like that, they'd happily come out and say that. But they know that we didn't. Everything that's in there is what they said.

02:36:05 Speaker_05
We didn't change anything. It's all real, and they know that, so what can they say? And especially in Robin DiAngelo's case, you know, it goes in a direction. She's willing to do some things that

02:36:20 Speaker_05
Are quite embarrassing for her and But you know, we don't we don't put it we don't put a gun to her and we enforce it right so what can she say?

02:36:29 Speaker_03
Listen, man. Congratulations. It's really funny.

02:36:32 Speaker_03
It's great And I think it's it's a great way to expose how ridiculous some of this shit is you can expose it by being angry and yelling and arguing with people on Twitter but to do it the way you did it and just make it a hilarious hour and a half movie is Really good.

02:36:47 Speaker_03
So kudos

02:36:48 Speaker_05
Thank you, man. Appreciate it.

02:36:49 Speaker_03
Congratulations. All right. Tell everybody where they can see it. It's on dailywire.com. Actually, it's in theaters. Oh, it's in theaters? It's in theaters right now.

02:36:56 Speaker_05
Oh, nice. Nice. You can get tickets at emiracist.com.

02:36:59 Speaker_03
Nice.

02:37:00 Speaker_05
So we're trying to get it out to make it available to whoever wants to see it.

02:37:05 Speaker_03
It's very funny, folks. All right. Thank you, Matt. Appreciate it. Thank you. Bye, everybody.